February 4, 2025 • 26 mins
Episode #190
In this week's episode, Terri is joined by Coach Heather Shuker to discuss ways to get back into fasting for folks who may be struggling after not having fasted for a while.
Terri and Heather discuss the video/board game analogies to illustrate how you may be out of practice, but that does not mean you are back at the beginning completely.
- Just like in video games, when you lose a life, you don't have to start over from the beginning. You can pick up where you left off and continue progressing. The same applies to habits and goals - you don't have to start from scratch if you've fallen off track. (01:31)
- It's common for people to return to healthy habits like fasting after a period of time away. It’s a bit like dusting off an old video game or board game - you may need to relearn some of the mechanics, but you don't have to start over completely. (06:53)
- If you want to stay proficient at something, you need to stay in the game. The key is to be patient with yourself and focus on consistency rather than perfection. Small, daily steps are more important than trying to achieve your goals quickly. Showing up and making the effort consistently is what leads to long-term success. (09:23)
- The importance of maintaining support systems and communities, even after reaching your goals. Just like in addiction recovery, continuing to participate in the Community can help you stay on track. (10:22)
- The danger of too much too soon. A great indicator of success is that you keep showing up. (18:23)
- Focus on the process rather than just the outcome, and remember that getting back on track is about dusting off old skills, not starting from scratch. (22:40)
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This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. You should always speak with your physician or other healthcare professional before doing any fasting, changing your diet, taking or adjusting any medication or supplements, or adopting any treatment for a health problem. The use of any other products or services purchased by you as a result of this podcast does not create a healthcare provider-patient relationship between you and any of the experts affiliated with this podcast. Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Before we get started with today's episode,
I would like to quickly read you our podcast
disclaimer.
This podcast is for educational
purposes only, and it is
not to substitute for professional
care by a doctor or other qualified
medical professional.
You should always speak with your physician
(00:27):
or other healthcare professionals before
doing any fasting, changing
your diet in any way, taking or
adjusting any medications or supplements,
or adopting any treatment plan
for a health problem.
The use of any other products or
services purchased by you as a result
of this podcast does not create
(00:50):
a healthcare provider-patient
relationship between you and any
of the experts affiliated with this
podcast.
Any information and statements
regarding dietary supplements have not
been evaluated by the Food and Drug
Administration and are not intended
to diagnose, treat, cure, or
(01:11):
prevent any disease.
All right. And now we'll get started with
today's episode.
Welcome back to another episode of The
Fasting Method podcast.
This is Coach Terri Lance.
And I'm Coach Heather Shuker.
So good to be here with you today, Heather.
How are you?
I'm doing well. How are you, Terri?
Very good.
(01:33):
I'm really excited about this episode,
and, for listeners to know, oftentimes,
we just kind of come up with these topics
in the spur of the moment.
I reached out to Heather about
this topic and said,
"Hey, remember that episode
we did a while back with the
(01:54):
video-game analogy, and
the idea that, even though
you lost this life, you go back
and you don't start all over again.
I thought this might be a really important
time of year to revisit this
analogy." I think, if I'm understanding
this idea correctly, we have
(02:15):
already passed Quitter's Day
(which I had never heard of), that it's the
second Friday after the New Year,
or it's a certain day, or whatever, but that
it's when people, for sure,
quit their New Year's resolution.
So I thought, Heather, that you
and I could talk a little bit about
(02:36):
the process of getting
back on track, the process of coming
back into a behavior that you used
to do and you haven't been doing for a while,
and to go back to that video-game
analogy.
How does that sound to you?
I love that analogy, Terri, and I have
people bringing that up to me all the time
(02:56):
because I think it really hits home
when you think about the idea
that you can learn and grow
but still feel like you're not making
progress.
I think that feels better than
that you start from nothing.
I think that's very defeating and,
especially, like you said, here at the
(03:16):
beginning of the year, when people start the
year gung-ho, motivated, excited,
and that's worn off [laughs] and
you feel like you're starting from scratch.
It's reassuring to know that you're not.
The cool thing about this analogy
for me, and thinking about this time of year
and what so many people are struggling with,
(03:37):
is it's not just, "Nah, I've
been kind of going off course, maybe a little
bit," but this is a time of year where we
see, here at TFM, a
lot of people returning who maybe
haven't been fasting for the last few
years or so.
They've had success in the past
and they stopped using it.
And it reminded me of
(03:59):
those-- I don't even know what you call
it, those vintage video games where
it's like it comes back, and it's 20
years later and you can play
Ms Pac-Man, or you can play Centipede,
or Asteroids, or whatever.
I don't know about you, Heather, but I was
never really good at using the controls
back in the day, and the controls are
(04:20):
definitely more sophisticated now.
But even though I knew the game so
well before, I
did have to kind of go through a period
of relearning
the trick spots, relearning the
special skills, or the
'you're fine as long as you don't go here'
or 'this is how you defeat this opponent'.
(04:44):
So, even though I wasn't starting
all over again, I was
having a hard time accessing what
I knew.
And so I had to go through it a few times and
then say, "Oh, yeah, shoot, I forgot about
that. That's there.
All right. I think what I knew before is
that, if I go over here, I can avoid it."
So for me, that's the importance
(05:05):
of that analogy for
many of us at this time of year
or at this stage when we might be coming
back to some skills that we
haven't used in a while.
I totally get what you're saying,
especially-- it's funny, Ms Pac-Man was
the game that first came to my mind as well.
And it's like you stand in front of it and
(05:26):
it's so familiar, and the music comes
on and the way the ghosts look and the
cherries flying by.
It's all so familiar and yet
you don't quite remember the patterns of the
ghosts or, you know, how fast they go.
And then-- and so you die more quickly.
[laughs].
When it comes to what we're doing here with
fasting, I think that is an awful lot what
(05:47):
happens. People are like, "I've done this
before, I know," and yet it's like
rickety memories.
And some things, like the importance of
salting, or staying hydrated,
or preparing the foods
ahead of time with what you're going to break
with, and the diet that you have
to follow kind of on a consistent basis so
that fasting is even possible for you.
(06:08):
All of those things do come back,
but it just-- oh, you gotta shake it out,
right? It's like you gotta kind of wipe the
dust off and remember how
to get back in that groove.
And not expect yourself
to be able to quickly go
to-- I don't even know with Ms
Pac-Man. I don't remember, like, if they were
(06:29):
called different levels, if they were
different worlds. I know some games it's a
different world, but you don't go to screen
17 the first time out.
You get through the first couple of screens
and get used to that again, and
remember certain things about that.
But it's going to take a while before
you can quickly get up to screen
(06:50):
17 and beyond.
And for people that don't play video games,
even with the analog games, right, your old
games coming out of the box, I'm sure
you found yourself in a situation, maybe with
some kids or, you know, with a family
that's-- those board game families and you
show up and you're like, "Oh, we're board
gaming," and you know you've played it and
it's familiar, and you're like, "Just remind
(07:12):
me the rules again." Like, just kind of-- you
know what I mean? Just kind of throw me back
in so that I remember.
And it does, it starts to click,
and, before you know it, after you've kind of
spent a little bit more time with it, you're
back in the groove.
But it's not like having to go
through-- like with someone who's never seen
it or never played that game before
(07:32):
where it's painful to watch, it's painful
to play with them because it's, you
know, they're brand new, which is-- no
disrespect for everyone who's doing that out
there with fasting.
We all have to learn.
We all have to be beginners.
But if you aren't, you'll find
that getting back in the groove takes
a little dusting but you get there, you get
(07:52):
there more quickly than you would have if
you were absolutely brand new and in
that place where you're like, "What do you
mean I'm not going to eat for an entire day?
That's overwhelming." If you've already done
it before, that's no longer one of the
hurdles that you have to overcome.
You know you can do it because you've done
it. It's more the getting into the--
back into the habit loop, and the swing and
(08:13):
the rhythm of it.
And you start to feel it like an old song.
And like you're bringing in the old,
board game idea as well, because I am
definitely a board game player.
I
find, if I haven't played the game in a
while, people bring it over
and you're like, "Oh, shoot, I don't even
remember how to play this." I
(08:35):
do get out the instructions,
but I can go through the instructions,
I can skim them, I can go
to the certain details
because I do start to remember the other
details. So again, it doesn't take me as
long to learn the game again.
I just have to refresh.
I have to fill in the gaps or the missing
(08:57):
pieces, the parts that are a little further
back in my memory.
So that's a good analogy too.
It's not just for video games, but even,
you know, if someone brings out the game,
Uno, and I forget that you
have to say, "Uno," when you get
to one card. So the first two hands
through it, I get stuck having to draw a
couple of cards because someone else knew the
(09:18):
rule.
But I didn't get through the third hand and
not remember that.
And since we're talking about game analogies,
I want to point out the difference
between what we're talking about, which is
playing a game and then going
months and months or even years without
playing it again, versus-- and
you might know people like this too, that
(09:39):
have been playing the same game of
Dungeons and Dragons for decades, right?
[laughs] They have their regular
group of people and they meet up once a
week. It's part of their lives.
They don't forget, right?
They have that in their blood.
They know how to play this game.
And isn't that a big difference?
If you really want to stay proficient
(09:59):
and good at something, and not forget, and
not get rusty, and not have to feel like a
beginner even if you're not, you keep
playing. And I'm not saying you
gotta go out there and play video games every
week [laughs] or even board games every week,
but, just like anything else, if
you want to stay in that
place, in that rhythm where you feel
proficient, or even mastery,
(10:21):
you gotta stay in the game.
And that's why I'm such a huge proponent
of our community and
staying involved, even at goal.
I was speaking with a client recently, and we
were actually talking about addiction, and I
was talking about how important
it is to come to Community meetings just
to keep your head in the game, just
(10:42):
to have it in your thoughts, because life
can get in the way, we can forget that this
is even important to us.
But when we come to meetings, just having an
hour of it in your head reminds
you that you have this goal that you're
really working on.
And the reason we were talking about
addiction is because I was saying, you know,
in other addictions (you know, because some
of us struggle with being addicted to things
(11:02):
like sugar and other addictions), people keep
going to those meetings long past the time
where they stop using those substances.
And my client was like, "Yeah, I have a
friend that has struggled with addiction, has
been clean for 12 years, still goes to these
meetings, and I didn't know why." This is
why.
It is imperative, if we
struggle with something, that we keep
(11:22):
the support that helps us stay successful
in the first place.
Because oftentimes in this world that
is full of temptations and the
things that caused us to have the problem in
the first place, it's imperative
to have your tribe, your people, that
are fighting the same fight as you and that
just keep your head in the game.
(11:42):
It's interesting that you bring that up,
Heather, because every now and then when
I'm talking with you, something that
somehow has seemed just
like it happens, you make concrete
about why.
And it reminds me why
is it that people come to meetings
for a long time.
(12:03):
We have people who have reached their goal,
we have people who are working toward their
goal, and they're very consistently
attending meetings.
I'm guessing out there in listener land,
we have people who are listening who maybe
aren't in the Community yet, but
they come back and they listen every time.
They even listen maybe to the repeats,
(12:26):
when we're off for a couple of weeks
or something, because they know
that they need to stay front and
center with these things.
You know, you use the analogy of some of
these skills might have to be dusted off.
You don't have to dust them off if you're
still using them.
What is that saying? A rolling stone gathers
no moss. You know, if I'm using
(12:49):
these skills, they don't get rusty.
They don't need to be cleaned up and
relearned.
I shared in a previous episode
one of my analogy thoughts about
doing things that are hard to do,
but, once you're doing it, they get easier,
but, if you stop, you have to go through
(13:10):
the hard part again.
So again, going back to the video game,
there is this one villain
or whatever you call it in this
game I used to play and it took us--
I remember my sister and I used to play this
after her kids would go to bed, and we
played it every night for hours
for a week.
(13:31):
And finally one of us got
passed that bad guy.
And then the other one had to try to
replicate what that one had done.
And if I didn't visit again for another six
months, it was like, "Oh, shoot!
How do I do that again?" So again, if
I had kept using it, if I had just taken
that game home with me and kept playing every
(13:51):
day, I would not have forgotten how
to get around that bad guy.
So my analogy was with riding a horse.
Getting up on a horse, man, that is so
physically challenging for me, but, once
I'm up there, it's not hard to stay
up there and it's nice up there,
it's cool, but, if you stop and
(14:12):
get down, dang it, you have to climb
back up.
Yeah.
And it's funny, the analogy that popped
into my head.
The comedian Jim Gaffigan has this joke
about skinny people at the gym.
He's like, "What are you doing here?
You're done." [laughs]
And of course, the joke is that's why they're
(14:32):
skinny, because they keep going to the gym!
We maintain these habits and that's how
we get to maintain our health.
Unfortunately, a trend that I've
noticed is that, when people are
going through rough patches (whether the
life stress has gotten them, or
the cravings just got out of control and they
(14:52):
let it take over, or what have you),
they tend to avoid going to meetings,
they tend to not sign up for coaching
sessions.
They feel like, "I'm not doing it and
so I don't want to be reminded
that that's something that I should be
doing." And of course, that's the worst
time to step away from
the support.
(15:13):
That's exactly when you need it the most.
And so I hope, if anyone out there is
struggling right now, I can inspire
you, this is exactly the time to start
coming back to meetings because this
is when you need us.
Heather, as you describe that,
I'm thinking about a
movie reference.
Let's move away from analogies for a moment
(15:34):
and go not on video games
but on a movie.
It's a Jerry Maguire moment.
Help me to help you.
We can't help if you're not accessing
that support.
Let us help you. Let us support you.
We're there for support for a reason.
And I think people get to a point where they
(15:56):
feel like they shouldn't need support.
Exactly. Which is insane, right?
If you think about what we're
actually trying to do at The Fasting Method,
and what we're helping people with, we're
helping people who have had
habits and lifestyle ways
of being for decades, literally decades,
(16:16):
that they are trying to change.
Now, the idea that you can undo
60-years worth of habits on
your own or in a few months,
I think is a little absurd, frankly,
which is why most people fail.
And so if you look at what you're really
doing, then it makes so
much sense that you're going to need support,
(16:38):
and, you know, a tribe, and
other people that are in the same boat as
you, and to be reminded, frankly,
because your autopilot self is
what you've been doing over and over and over
and over again for years.
And this new self that you're trying to
develop is fresh and is a brand new
little baby. And so it's like we've got this
little baby with these little baby habits
(16:59):
that we're just trying to leave by itself
after it's only a few months old.
No wonder it doesn't make it on its own.
And man, did I just kill a baby in the
podcast? I didn't mean to!
But my point is, it
is really hard to create new
lifestyle habits.
It requires a lot of attention,
effort, work, and going it
(17:20):
alone is very difficult.
It takes a village.
It takes a village.
And we're not broken
when we need that village.
So I'm really glad that you brought this up.
I thought maybe, Heather, we could talk about
what are some of the refreshers?
What are some of the things we need to
freshen up on, dust off?
(17:43):
You mentioned some earlier.
You mentioned using salt.
One of the things I notice so many people
who have gotten out of their fasting
habit, when they come back
and get it rolling again, they forget
to take salt, or
they wait and take salt when they start
(18:04):
to not feel well instead of starting
salting first thing in the morning.
Even salting on eating days
for many of us is an important part.
What are some of the other things that you've
noticed that oftentimes people need
to refresh as they're coming
back in?
I'll tell you, one that I see a lot is
(18:26):
people that were very successful
in a more intensive fast, like
three 42s, who haven't been fasting for
maybe months or maybe even years, think
that they can just come right on back and
start at that level fresh out of the gate
without any kind of lead-up with
time-restricted eating or moving into
24-hour/OMAD fasts,
(18:48):
they just race straight to it.
Or they'll go even further, right, "I really
need to fix this quickly.
I'm going to do a quick five-day fast,"
and that's just-- we don't
recommend it as a beginner and we don't
recommend it for someone returning to
fasting.
Even if you can kind of go through the levels
quickly because of your experience,
it is still highly recommended that you at
(19:10):
least touch on each level along the way
to make sure that you're capturing all of
those nuances, like you've got your
salt on board, you've got your magnesium
on board, you have what you're going to break
[your fast] with planned out.
You remember that there are sometimes
side effects to fasting, especially
when it's new to you, and, if you haven't
(19:31):
done it in a while, it will be new to your
body. So some of the ones that you had early
on, you're going to experience again.
So kind of going back to beginnings
and having a beginner's mind is
a really good idea when you're trying
to again embark on what
is going to be a long journey that you
want to be able to stick with.
(19:51):
You don't want to burn yourself out within
the first month because of hubris.
I love it.
Another one that I notice is
falling back into some old ways
of thinking that got us in trouble
before.
One of them being calories,
calories, calories. "Maybe
I just need to eat less," "Oh, I shouldn't
(20:13):
have eaten that bite," "I should have
only eaten half of that,"
that, "If I just eat less food
when I eat, that that's how
I will make this progress."
Exactly. They think, "Well, if I'm fasting
and I *also* calorie restrict,
imagine how much better *that's* going to
(20:33):
go."
That's right.
Not at all.
So it's like, wait, I'm going to combine this
old faulty mechanism
with this new successful mechanism
and marry them into a
disaster. [laughter]
A disaster is right.
And here's part of why it's a disaster,
Terri, because it works for a little while,
right? The scale moves and they're like,
(20:54):
"Yes!" The problem is, it's so
unsustainable when you marry those two
patterns of eating, that you
crash and burn.
And what use is it?
Okay, great, you made the scale move
quickly, and then you crashed and burned and
it all came back anyway.
What did you gain?
It's not real because it's not sustainable.
(21:14):
So expecting to do
this as a flash, like, "Quick, get it off as
fast as I possibly can." It just
doesn't work that way.
And the people that end up the most
frustrated and throwing their hands
up and just angry with themselves the most
are the ones that have tied the time around
it, like there's some sort of race, there's
(21:35):
some sort of desperate finish line
that they're trying to cross, and that just
isn't the case.
Letting go of the timeline, focusing
on what you need to do to get yourself
healthier is just such
a more pleasant way to eat/live, and
is so much more sustainable, and, therefore,
so much more likely to be successful.
(21:55):
That is just the way to do it.
And you've got to be okay with the fact that
the scale is not going to move 20 pounds at a
clip. You know, it's going to move a quarter
of a pound to half a pound, and it's not
a great indicator of success.
A great indicator of success
is that you keep showing up.
That is an amazing indicator
(22:15):
of success because, guess what, the
people that show up messy and imperfectly
the longest are the ones that win.
The people that are so determined to go fast
and to be perfect, and not use a fasting
aid or let a carbohydrate pass their
lips, they're the ones that burn out and
quit. And so do you want to be successful
(22:36):
or do you want to be perfect?
It's not likely you'll be both.
Every time you talk, you bring up a topic
that could be a whole podcast episode.
These are such gems that you're talking
about. I know recently, Heather,
you and I, and then Bethany and I,
we've been talking about things that
help, things that hinder.
(22:56):
One of the things I see people who are
kind of returning or
getting back on the horse often
do is they focus
solely on the outcome,
the desired outcome - "I want
to lose these 72 pounds,"
"I want to reverse my fatty
(23:17):
liver," - and they don't
focus on what actually moves the
needle is the habits, the
daily decisions,
the tiny steps.
They put their eyes on the prize that's at
the end of the journey and
think that's all they need to focus on.
But in essence, as everything we've been
(23:38):
saying, it's really about
measuring, "Did I take the step
right now?" "Did I make the choice that
helped me not?" not, "Am
I at that pinnacle place?"
Absolutely.
And I think that when
we start out-- and we've talked about
motivation before-- when we start out,
(23:59):
we're so excited, but, especially
those of us who have been around the block a
few times, we know that that excitement is
going to wear off, and it's almost
like they're trying to race the clock
before the motivation runs out.
"Let me quick get this done." That will
never be the case.
Right? You started this podcast talking about
(24:19):
Quitter's Day, and it's past,
and it's usually a couple of weeks in.
And if you've got 42 or 67
or 85 or 120 pounds to
lose, it's going to take more than two weeks.
And so the motivation is going to go away,
the excitement is going to go away.
What's going to be left is a
whole lot of boring, a whole lot of tedious,
(24:40):
a whole lot of, "I don't feel like it,"
a whole lot of, "Nobody else has to do this.
Why do I have to do it?" And that's
why it's hard.
It's not hard because we have to jump over
buildings. It's not hard because
fasting is impossible.
It's all doable.
The hard part is the doing, and the
consistency, and,
(25:01):
like you said, those little tiny inputs,
each little vote toward who you want to be
(which is, I think, from Atomic Habits).
You either make the votes toward healthy
or not. And that's the whole
thing. That's it, right?
There's no magic here.
There's no mystery of what separates
the people who are successful and the ones
(25:22):
that aren't. The ones that are successful
show up more often.
That's it. It's simple math.
I love it.
You're right. We focus on the end game,
but that's-- we can't even do anything
a year from now, which is how long it's going
to take for some of us.
All we can do is today.
And so, if we show up for today or we don't,
that's what we can do.
(25:42):
So that's what we should focus on.
I love it.
All right, Heather, I think we've covered
the video-game analogy,
the board-game analogy, movie
quotes.
We haven't done any songs yet today, but
maybe we'll incorporate that next time.
We'll save that for next time.
[laughter]
All right. Well, thank you so much, Heather,
(26:03):
for engaging in this discussion with me.
It's great to dig into this and to
share our experiences and, hopefully,
encourage people to relook
at how they're navigating this.
Like you said, Quitter's Day is behind us.
Every day is Winner's Day.
Every day. Just keep going.
(26:23):
All right. Until we come back,
take good care, everyone.
And we will bring you another episode soon.
Make good choices, everybody.
Before we get started with today's episode,
I would like to quickly read you our podcast
disclaimer.
This podcast is for educational
purposes only, and it is
not to substitute for professional
care by a doctor or other qualified
medical professional.
You should always speak with your physician
(00:27):
or other healthcare professionals before
doing any fasting, changing
your diet in any way, taking or
adjusting any medications or supplements,
or adopting any treatment plan
for a health problem.
The use of any other products or
services purchased by you as a result
of this podcast does not create
(00:50):
a healthcare provider-patient
relationship between you and any
of the experts affiliated with this
podcast.
Any information and statements
regarding dietary supplements have not
been evaluated by the Food and Drug
Administration and are not intended
to diagnose, treat, cure, or
(01:11):
prevent any disease.
All right. And now we'll get started with
today's episode.
Welcome back to another episode of The
Fasting Method podcast.
This is Coach Terri Lance.
And I'm Coach Heather Shuker.
So good to be here with you today, Heather.
How are you?
I'm doing well. How are you, Terri?
Very good.
(01:33):
I'm really excited about this episode,
and, for listeners to know, oftentimes,
we just kind of come up with these topics
in the spur of the moment.
I reached out to Heather about
this topic and said,
"Hey, remember that episode
we did a while back with the
(01:54):
video-game analogy, and
the idea that, even though
you lost this life, you go back
and you don't start all over again.
I thought this might be a really important
time of year to revisit this
analogy." I think, if I'm understanding
this idea correctly, we have
(02:15):
already passed Quitter's Day
(which I had never heard of), that it's the
second Friday after the New Year,
or it's a certain day, or whatever, but that
it's when people, for sure,
quit their New Year's resolution.
So I thought, Heather, that you
and I could talk a little bit about
(02:36):
the process of getting
back on track, the process of coming
back into a behavior that you used
to do and you haven't been doing for a while,
and to go back to that video-game
analogy.
How does that sound to you?
I love that analogy, Terri, and I have
people bringing that up to me all the time
(02:56):
because I think it really hits home
when you think about the idea
that you can learn and grow
but still feel like you're not making
progress.
I think that feels better than
that you start from nothing.
I think that's very defeating and,
especially, like you said, here at the
(03:16):
beginning of the year, when people start the
year gung-ho, motivated, excited,
and that's worn off [laughs] and
you feel like you're starting from scratch.
It's reassuring to know that you're not.
The cool thing about this analogy
for me, and thinking about this time of year
and what so many people are struggling with,
(03:37):
is it's not just, "Nah, I've
been kind of going off course, maybe a little
bit," but this is a time of year where we
see, here at TFM, a
lot of people returning who maybe
haven't been fasting for the last few
years or so.
They've had success in the past
and they stopped using it.
And it reminded me of
(03:59):
those-- I don't even know what you call
it, those vintage video games where
it's like it comes back, and it's 20
years later and you can play
Ms Pac-Man, or you can play Centipede,
or Asteroids, or whatever.
I don't know about you, Heather, but I was
never really good at using the controls
back in the day, and the controls are
(04:20):
definitely more sophisticated now.
But even though I knew the game so
well before, I
did have to kind of go through a period
of relearning
the trick spots, relearning the
special skills, or the
'you're fine as long as you don't go here'
or 'this is how you defeat this opponent'.
(04:44):
So, even though I wasn't starting
all over again, I was
having a hard time accessing what
I knew.
And so I had to go through it a few times and
then say, "Oh, yeah, shoot, I forgot about
that. That's there.
All right. I think what I knew before is
that, if I go over here, I can avoid it."
So for me, that's the importance
(05:05):
of that analogy for
many of us at this time of year
or at this stage when we might be coming
back to some skills that we
haven't used in a while.
I totally get what you're saying,
especially-- it's funny, Ms Pac-Man was
the game that first came to my mind as well.
And it's like you stand in front of it and
(05:26):
it's so familiar, and the music comes
on and the way the ghosts look and the
cherries flying by.
It's all so familiar and yet
you don't quite remember the patterns of the
ghosts or, you know, how fast they go.
And then-- and so you die more quickly.
[laughs].
When it comes to what we're doing here with
fasting, I think that is an awful lot what
(05:47):
happens. People are like, "I've done this
before, I know," and yet it's like
rickety memories.
And some things, like the importance of
salting, or staying hydrated,
or preparing the foods
ahead of time with what you're going to break
with, and the diet that you have
to follow kind of on a consistent basis so
that fasting is even possible for you.
(06:08):
All of those things do come back,
but it just-- oh, you gotta shake it out,
right? It's like you gotta kind of wipe the
dust off and remember how
to get back in that groove.
And not expect yourself
to be able to quickly go
to-- I don't even know with Ms
Pac-Man. I don't remember, like, if they were
(06:29):
called different levels, if they were
different worlds. I know some games it's a
different world, but you don't go to screen
17 the first time out.
You get through the first couple of screens
and get used to that again, and
remember certain things about that.
But it's going to take a while before
you can quickly get up to screen
(06:50):
17 and beyond.
And for people that don't play video games,
even with the analog games, right, your old
games coming out of the box, I'm sure
you found yourself in a situation, maybe with
some kids or, you know, with a family
that's-- those board game families and you
show up and you're like, "Oh, we're board
gaming," and you know you've played it and
it's familiar, and you're like, "Just remind
(07:12):
me the rules again." Like, just kind of-- you
know what I mean? Just kind of throw me back
in so that I remember.
And it does, it starts to click,
and, before you know it, after you've kind of
spent a little bit more time with it, you're
back in the groove.
But it's not like having to go
through-- like with someone who's never seen
it or never played that game before
(07:32):
where it's painful to watch, it's painful
to play with them because it's, you
know, they're brand new, which is-- no
disrespect for everyone who's doing that out
there with fasting.
We all have to learn.
We all have to be beginners.
But if you aren't, you'll find
that getting back in the groove takes
a little dusting but you get there, you get
(07:52):
there more quickly than you would have if
you were absolutely brand new and in
that place where you're like, "What do you
mean I'm not going to eat for an entire day?
That's overwhelming." If you've already done
it before, that's no longer one of the
hurdles that you have to overcome.
You know you can do it because you've done
it. It's more the getting into the--
back into the habit loop, and the swing and
(08:13):
the rhythm of it.
And you start to feel it like an old song.
And like you're bringing in the old,
board game idea as well, because I am
definitely a board game player.
I
find, if I haven't played the game in a
while, people bring it over
and you're like, "Oh, shoot, I don't even
remember how to play this." I
(08:35):
do get out the instructions,
but I can go through the instructions,
I can skim them, I can go
to the certain details
because I do start to remember the other
details. So again, it doesn't take me as
long to learn the game again.
I just have to refresh.
I have to fill in the gaps or the missing
(08:57):
pieces, the parts that are a little further
back in my memory.
So that's a good analogy too.
It's not just for video games, but even,
you know, if someone brings out the game,
Uno, and I forget that you
have to say, "Uno," when you get
to one card. So the first two hands
through it, I get stuck having to draw a
couple of cards because someone else knew the
(09:18):
rule.
But I didn't get through the third hand and
not remember that.
And since we're talking about game analogies,
I want to point out the difference
between what we're talking about, which is
playing a game and then going
months and months or even years without
playing it again, versus-- and
you might know people like this too, that
(09:39):
have been playing the same game of
Dungeons and Dragons for decades, right?
[laughs] They have their regular
group of people and they meet up once a
week. It's part of their lives.
They don't forget, right?
They have that in their blood.
They know how to play this game.
And isn't that a big difference?
If you really want to stay proficient
(09:59):
and good at something, and not forget, and
not get rusty, and not have to feel like a
beginner even if you're not, you keep
playing. And I'm not saying you
gotta go out there and play video games every
week [laughs] or even board games every week,
but, just like anything else, if
you want to stay in that
place, in that rhythm where you feel
proficient, or even mastery,
(10:21):
you gotta stay in the game.
And that's why I'm such a huge proponent
of our community and
staying involved, even at goal.
I was speaking with a client recently, and we
were actually talking about addiction, and I
was talking about how important
it is to come to Community meetings just
to keep your head in the game, just
(10:42):
to have it in your thoughts, because life
can get in the way, we can forget that this
is even important to us.
But when we come to meetings, just having an
hour of it in your head reminds
you that you have this goal that you're
really working on.
And the reason we were talking about
addiction is because I was saying, you know,
in other addictions (you know, because some
of us struggle with being addicted to things
(11:02):
like sugar and other addictions), people keep
going to those meetings long past the time
where they stop using those substances.
And my client was like, "Yeah, I have a
friend that has struggled with addiction, has
been clean for 12 years, still goes to these
meetings, and I didn't know why." This is
why.
It is imperative, if we
struggle with something, that we keep
(11:22):
the support that helps us stay successful
in the first place.
Because oftentimes in this world that
is full of temptations and the
things that caused us to have the problem in
the first place, it's imperative
to have your tribe, your people, that
are fighting the same fight as you and that
just keep your head in the game.
(11:42):
It's interesting that you bring that up,
Heather, because every now and then when
I'm talking with you, something that
somehow has seemed just
like it happens, you make concrete
about why.
And it reminds me why
is it that people come to meetings
for a long time.
(12:03):
We have people who have reached their goal,
we have people who are working toward their
goal, and they're very consistently
attending meetings.
I'm guessing out there in listener land,
we have people who are listening who maybe
aren't in the Community yet, but
they come back and they listen every time.
They even listen maybe to the repeats,
(12:26):
when we're off for a couple of weeks
or something, because they know
that they need to stay front and
center with these things.
You know, you use the analogy of some of
these skills might have to be dusted off.
You don't have to dust them off if you're
still using them.
What is that saying? A rolling stone gathers
no moss. You know, if I'm using
(12:49):
these skills, they don't get rusty.
They don't need to be cleaned up and
relearned.
I shared in a previous episode
one of my analogy thoughts about
doing things that are hard to do,
but, once you're doing it, they get easier,
but, if you stop, you have to go through
(13:10):
the hard part again.
So again, going back to the video game,
there is this one villain
or whatever you call it in this
game I used to play and it took us--
I remember my sister and I used to play this
after her kids would go to bed, and we
played it every night for hours
for a week.
(13:31):
And finally one of us got
passed that bad guy.
And then the other one had to try to
replicate what that one had done.
And if I didn't visit again for another six
months, it was like, "Oh, shoot!
How do I do that again?" So again, if
I had kept using it, if I had just taken
that game home with me and kept playing every
(13:51):
day, I would not have forgotten how
to get around that bad guy.
So my analogy was with riding a horse.
Getting up on a horse, man, that is so
physically challenging for me, but, once
I'm up there, it's not hard to stay
up there and it's nice up there,
it's cool, but, if you stop and
(14:12):
get down, dang it, you have to climb
back up.
Yeah.
And it's funny, the analogy that popped
into my head.
The comedian Jim Gaffigan has this joke
about skinny people at the gym.
He's like, "What are you doing here?
You're done." [laughs]
And of course, the joke is that's why they're
(14:32):
skinny, because they keep going to the gym!
We maintain these habits and that's how
we get to maintain our health.
Unfortunately, a trend that I've
noticed is that, when people are
going through rough patches (whether the
life stress has gotten them, or
the cravings just got out of control and they
(14:52):
let it take over, or what have you),
they tend to avoid going to meetings,
they tend to not sign up for coaching
sessions.
They feel like, "I'm not doing it and
so I don't want to be reminded
that that's something that I should be
doing." And of course, that's the worst
time to step away from
the support.
(15:13):
That's exactly when you need it the most.
And so I hope, if anyone out there is
struggling right now, I can inspire
you, this is exactly the time to start
coming back to meetings because this
is when you need us.
Heather, as you describe that,
I'm thinking about a
movie reference.
Let's move away from analogies for a moment
(15:34):
and go not on video games
but on a movie.
It's a Jerry Maguire moment.
Help me to help you.
We can't help if you're not accessing
that support.
Let us help you. Let us support you.
We're there for support for a reason.
And I think people get to a point where they
(15:56):
feel like they shouldn't need support.
Exactly. Which is insane, right?
If you think about what we're
actually trying to do at The Fasting Method,
and what we're helping people with, we're
helping people who have had
habits and lifestyle ways
of being for decades, literally decades,
(16:16):
that they are trying to change.
Now, the idea that you can undo
60-years worth of habits on
your own or in a few months,
I think is a little absurd, frankly,
which is why most people fail.
And so if you look at what you're really
doing, then it makes so
much sense that you're going to need support,
(16:38):
and, you know, a tribe, and
other people that are in the same boat as
you, and to be reminded, frankly,
because your autopilot self is
what you've been doing over and over and over
and over again for years.
And this new self that you're trying to
develop is fresh and is a brand new
little baby. And so it's like we've got this
little baby with these little baby habits
(16:59):
that we're just trying to leave by itself
after it's only a few months old.
No wonder it doesn't make it on its own.
And man, did I just kill a baby in the
podcast? I didn't mean to!
But my point is, it
is really hard to create new
lifestyle habits.
It requires a lot of attention,
effort, work, and going it
(17:20):
alone is very difficult.
It takes a village.
It takes a village.
And we're not broken
when we need that village.
So I'm really glad that you brought this up.
I thought maybe, Heather, we could talk about
what are some of the refreshers?
What are some of the things we need to
freshen up on, dust off?
(17:43):
You mentioned some earlier.
You mentioned using salt.
One of the things I notice so many people
who have gotten out of their fasting
habit, when they come back
and get it rolling again, they forget
to take salt, or
they wait and take salt when they start
(18:04):
to not feel well instead of starting
salting first thing in the morning.
Even salting on eating days
for many of us is an important part.
What are some of the other things that you've
noticed that oftentimes people need
to refresh as they're coming
back in?
I'll tell you, one that I see a lot is
(18:26):
people that were very successful
in a more intensive fast, like
three 42s, who haven't been fasting for
maybe months or maybe even years, think
that they can just come right on back and
start at that level fresh out of the gate
without any kind of lead-up with
time-restricted eating or moving into
24-hour/OMAD fasts,
(18:48):
they just race straight to it.
Or they'll go even further, right, "I really
need to fix this quickly.
I'm going to do a quick five-day fast,"
and that's just-- we don't
recommend it as a beginner and we don't
recommend it for someone returning to
fasting.
Even if you can kind of go through the levels
quickly because of your experience,
it is still highly recommended that you at
(19:10):
least touch on each level along the way
to make sure that you're capturing all of
those nuances, like you've got your
salt on board, you've got your magnesium
on board, you have what you're going to break
[your fast] with planned out.
You remember that there are sometimes
side effects to fasting, especially
when it's new to you, and, if you haven't
(19:31):
done it in a while, it will be new to your
body. So some of the ones that you had early
on, you're going to experience again.
So kind of going back to beginnings
and having a beginner's mind is
a really good idea when you're trying
to again embark on what
is going to be a long journey that you
want to be able to stick with.
(19:51):
You don't want to burn yourself out within
the first month because of hubris.
I love it.
Another one that I notice is
falling back into some old ways
of thinking that got us in trouble
before.
One of them being calories,
calories, calories. "Maybe
I just need to eat less," "Oh, I shouldn't
(20:13):
have eaten that bite," "I should have
only eaten half of that,"
that, "If I just eat less food
when I eat, that that's how
I will make this progress."
Exactly. They think, "Well, if I'm fasting
and I *also* calorie restrict,
imagine how much better *that's* going to
(20:33):
go."
That's right.
Not at all.
So it's like, wait, I'm going to combine this
old faulty mechanism
with this new successful mechanism
and marry them into a
disaster. [laughter]
A disaster is right.
And here's part of why it's a disaster,
Terri, because it works for a little while,
right? The scale moves and they're like,
(20:54):
"Yes!" The problem is, it's so
unsustainable when you marry those two
patterns of eating, that you
crash and burn.
And what use is it?
Okay, great, you made the scale move
quickly, and then you crashed and burned and
it all came back anyway.
What did you gain?
It's not real because it's not sustainable.
(21:14):
So expecting to do
this as a flash, like, "Quick, get it off as
fast as I possibly can." It just
doesn't work that way.
And the people that end up the most
frustrated and throwing their hands
up and just angry with themselves the most
are the ones that have tied the time around
it, like there's some sort of race, there's
(21:35):
some sort of desperate finish line
that they're trying to cross, and that just
isn't the case.
Letting go of the timeline, focusing
on what you need to do to get yourself
healthier is just such
a more pleasant way to eat/live, and
is so much more sustainable, and, therefore,
so much more likely to be successful.
(21:55):
That is just the way to do it.
And you've got to be okay with the fact that
the scale is not going to move 20 pounds at a
clip. You know, it's going to move a quarter
of a pound to half a pound, and it's not
a great indicator of success.
A great indicator of success
is that you keep showing up.
That is an amazing indicator
(22:15):
of success because, guess what, the
people that show up messy and imperfectly
the longest are the ones that win.
The people that are so determined to go fast
and to be perfect, and not use a fasting
aid or let a carbohydrate pass their
lips, they're the ones that burn out and
quit. And so do you want to be successful
(22:36):
or do you want to be perfect?
It's not likely you'll be both.
Every time you talk, you bring up a topic
that could be a whole podcast episode.
These are such gems that you're talking
about. I know recently, Heather,
you and I, and then Bethany and I,
we've been talking about things that
help, things that hinder.
(22:56):
One of the things I see people who are
kind of returning or
getting back on the horse often
do is they focus
solely on the outcome,
the desired outcome - "I want
to lose these 72 pounds,"
"I want to reverse my fatty
(23:17):
liver," - and they don't
focus on what actually moves the
needle is the habits, the
daily decisions,
the tiny steps.
They put their eyes on the prize that's at
the end of the journey and
think that's all they need to focus on.
But in essence, as everything we've been
(23:38):
saying, it's really about
measuring, "Did I take the step
right now?" "Did I make the choice that
helped me not?" not, "Am
I at that pinnacle place?"
Absolutely.
And I think that when
we start out-- and we've talked about
motivation before-- when we start out,
(23:59):
we're so excited, but, especially
those of us who have been around the block a
few times, we know that that excitement is
going to wear off, and it's almost
like they're trying to race the clock
before the motivation runs out.
"Let me quick get this done." That will
never be the case.
Right? You started this podcast talking about
(24:19):
Quitter's Day, and it's past,
and it's usually a couple of weeks in.
And if you've got 42 or 67
or 85 or 120 pounds to
lose, it's going to take more than two weeks.
And so the motivation is going to go away,
the excitement is going to go away.
What's going to be left is a
whole lot of boring, a whole lot of tedious,
(24:40):
a whole lot of, "I don't feel like it,"
a whole lot of, "Nobody else has to do this.
Why do I have to do it?" And that's
why it's hard.
It's not hard because we have to jump over
buildings. It's not hard because
fasting is impossible.
It's all doable.
The hard part is the doing, and the
consistency, and,
(25:01):
like you said, those little tiny inputs,
each little vote toward who you want to be
(which is, I think, from Atomic Habits).
You either make the votes toward healthy
or not. And that's the whole
thing. That's it, right?
There's no magic here.
There's no mystery of what separates
the people who are successful and the ones
(25:22):
that aren't. The ones that are successful
show up more often.
That's it. It's simple math.
I love it.
You're right. We focus on the end game,
but that's-- we can't even do anything
a year from now, which is how long it's going
to take for some of us.
All we can do is today.
And so, if we show up for today or we don't,
that's what we can do.
(25:42):
So that's what we should focus on.
I love it.
All right, Heather, I think we've covered
the video-game analogy,
the board-game analogy, movie
quotes.
We haven't done any songs yet today, but
maybe we'll incorporate that next time.
We'll save that for next time.
[laughter]
All right. Well, thank you so much, Heather,
(26:03):
for engaging in this discussion with me.
It's great to dig into this and to
share our experiences and, hopefully,
encourage people to relook
at how they're navigating this.
Like you said, Quitter's Day is behind us.
Every day is Winner's Day.
Every day. Just keep going.
(26:23):
All right. Until we come back,
take good care, everyone.
And we will bring you another episode soon.
Make good choices, everybody.
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