March 4, 2025 • 24 mins
Episode #194
In this week's episode, Terri and Coach Heather talk about how so often people struggle to achieve their health and weight-loss goals because they maintain an underlying expectation of perfectionism.
They share how perfectionism may present in the fasting and nutritional efforts you are engaging and encourage more realistic expectations.
Summary Timestamps:
- Being a beginner means accepting that progress will be messy and imperfect, and that's okay. (02:53)
- Don’t rush through fasting and lifestyle changes, setting unrealistic expectations and timelines. (04:19)
- The challenge of not reaching goals is more a problem of not finishing than not starting. (08:21)
- The problem with streaks (13:32)
- Two strategies to combat perfectionism. (15:59)
- Embracing the fact that change takes time and being willing to be ‘messy’ along the way is important for long-term success, and celebrating small wins and progress, rather than focusing on perfection, is key to building sustainable habits. (22:42)
Chapters:
00:00 Disclaimer
02:53 Embracing imperfection
04:19 Don’t rush it!
08:21 Why we often fail to reach goals
13:32 The problem with streaks
15:59 Two strategies to combat perfectionism
22:42 Key ways to achieve long-term success
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Disclaimer
This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. You should always speak with your physician or other healthcare professional before doing any fasting, changing your diet, taking or adjusting any medication or supplements, or adopting any treatment for a health problem. The use of any other products or services purchased by you as a result of this podcast does not create a healthcare provider-patient relationship between you and any of the experts affiliated with this podcast. Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Before we get started with today's episode,
I would like to quickly read you our podcast
disclaimer.
This podcast is for educational purposes
only, and it is not a substitute
for professional care by a doctor
or other qualified medical professional.
You should always speak with your physician
(00:27):
or other healthcare professionals before doing
any fasting, changing your diet
in any way, taking or adjusting
any medications or supplements, or
adopting any treatment plan
for a health problem.
The use of any other products or
services purchased by you as a result
of this podcast does not create
(00:50):
a healthcare provider-patient
relationship between you and any
of the experts affiliated with this
podcast.
Any Information and statements
regarding dietary supplements have not
been evaluated by the Food and Drug
Administration and are not intended
to diagnose, treat, cure, or
(01:11):
prevent any disease.
All right. And now we will get started with
today's episode.
Welcome back to another episode of The
Fasting Method podcast.
This is Coach Terri Lance and I
am here with Coach Heather Shuker.
Heather, how are you doing today?
I'm doing great as usual, Terri.
How are you?
(01:31):
I'm good.
I love getting to record these with you
because it just feels like we just
stopped somewhere, and we're just going to
pick it up again and, you know, just keep
running this ball down the field.
So I'm very excited about today's
topic.
The way you and I decided that we would
approach it is referring to this as-- [drum
roll]
(01:54):
the problem of perfectionism.
I feel like we need a big drum roll or some
[laughter] real music here.
Daisy, maybe you could put that in when you
edit. But one
of the reasons I wanted to do this topic
with you, Heather, is-- I can't
remember if it's a client that we share
or maybe someone in the TFM Community,
(02:16):
but they recently said, "You know,
Coach Heather told me maybe I needed to allow
myself to just do this and be a little messy
with it." So she and I talked about
getting rid of the perfectionistic
approach to fasting, to eating,
and things. So I have been
listening to a book that is very
(02:37):
focused on perfectionism, and I think it's a
fantastic book so I'll bring in some things
about that.
But that's really what made me decide to ask
if you wanted to cover this topic, because I
can tell it's something that you've given
some thought to and have some experience
with.
Terri, I can't even tell you how many clients
I have had to say, "Be willing
(02:58):
to do it messy." So
often clients come to us and they
expect to be expert beginners.
That's an oxymoron, that
doesn't exist.
When you start something new, you aren't
going to be perfect. That's the whole point.
You're a beginner. You have to try and
fail and try again before
you can develop mastery.
(03:19):
And the beauty of lifestyle change is
you get benefit in the trying.
So even if it is a little messy,
you're still moving forward in
your journey.
And that's really what we're all here to do.
I love that way of thinking about it, that
there's benefit when
it's not perfect.
And I, too, with clients
(03:42):
and Community members, hear that theme so
often that, "I
should already be perfect at this."
How?
I started fasting-- let me think,
I don't know, like eight years ago, and
I'm still refining it, I'm still
learning new things.
Sometimes my fasts are complicated
and they don't work real well, and other times
(04:05):
I feel like I'm on top of the world.
But if I use that lens of perfectionism,
I would never do another one again,
because the odds of me having a perfect fast
and doing it perfectly is pretty
darn slim.
Exactly. And the other thing that I see that's
in that same vein is you'll see people
that start The Fasting Method
(04:26):
as recommended.
We start about starting at the low end of the
fasting dial and gradually moving yourself
up. So they'll start with TRE
(time-restricted eating), they'll be eating
two meals a day with no snacking.
Everything's going great and they're like,
"Okay, I've done that a week.
Let's go ahead and ramp up to,
you know, 24-hour fasts,"
(04:47):
OMADs (one meal a day) [laughs] all the
acronyms, right?
And they'll do that for a week and they'll be
like, "Okay, got that. Move on." And you'll
see them ramping up the fasting
dial (because if a little is good, more
is better) and they'll keep moving the
goal posts on themselves, and making it more
and more difficult until they burnout,
(05:08):
and they get overwhelmed and they quit.
And what benefit did that do them?
Part of being the beginner, part
of accepting that this is going to be
messy, is also accepting that it's
going to take a little time to get up to,
you know, the pace of something like three 42s
a week, which is a very intense, therapeutic
fast.
(05:28):
And so being willing to kind of sit
with things a little bit longer is part
of being a beginner and taking
your time and not expecting to be a
perfect a student right out of the gate.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
This idea that because
in order to succeed with this, I must become
perfect. Even if I accept that I might not
(05:49):
begin as perfect, I must become
perfect.
We just keep moving that goalpost -
go faster, get there sooner, "It
looks like this," "Oh, wait.
No, it looks like this." And
often, in doing so, we're not even
paying attention to what's actually
working, what's actually not working, what
are the things that are causing interference?
(06:12):
We are just holding ourselves to a timeline.
And I think that's part, for many of us, of
a perfectionism piece about this.
There's a right amount of time.
Sometimes it's challenging for me here at
the podcast or in Community meetings
because people want to know, "Well, how long
will this take?" "I heard Coach
(06:33):
Heather say it took her this amount."
It's like a poker game, "I'm going to see your
six months and I'm going to raise it.
I'm going to do four and a half months."
And again, that somehow getting there faster
is the goal.
Taking less time to achieve my goal
is even better.
I often hear people falling into that
(06:53):
trap of perfectionism.
Oh my gosh, yes.
And, you know, back to my example about moving
the goalposts, a lot of times because they've
heard people say, "Three 42s
is the gold standard," they want to get there
as fast as possible so they can gold-standard
their way, you know, across their finish line
in six months flat.
And, yeah, I'm part of the problem [laughs],
(07:14):
I admit it, but I think
what people don't think about or remember
about my story is that I was fasting
on and off for two years before I joined
this community and was able to start
that therapeutic fasting.
So there was a whole lot of
OMADs before I started therapeutic fasting
regimens. So let's just clear the air on that.
(07:35):
But having this kind of unrealistic
expectation that you're going to be perfect,
on point, six months straight with no
vacations, no birthdays, no holidays,
no nothing getting in the way between you
doing everything perfectly is just
unrealistic.
And, so often, pacing is such a
huge issue for people and what makes
(07:55):
people want to quit out of frustration,
and so I think managing those expectations
around pacing is really important.
And the perfectionists are the ones that it's
hardest with because they think, "Well, I'm
just going to do everything right and then I
will go as fast as it is supposed
to." Careful with what is 'supposed'
to happen because that's--
(08:16):
there's no prescription there...
Absolutely.
...on what's supposed to happen. What happens
happens.
So I mentioned earlier, one of the other
reasons that I wanted to have this
conversation with you today is I'm reading a
book, and I know you should never
explain a book before you finish reading it,
but I'm so excited about this topic.
So look out, y'all will probably be hearing a
(08:37):
lot more about it. It's a book called
Finish, and
the author's whole point, so
far, really, is that
the challenge with people reaching their
goals-- he used to think it was a problem
of not starting, and so he taught people
how to start. How to get started when you have
a goal. If you want to write a book, sit
(09:00):
down and write the first three pages and then
you'll just take off.
But he realized more recently and really
studying it and reflecting on it, the bigger
problem is not finishing.
And in reality, many of us are really good at
starting goals.
I cannot even tell you how many craft
projects I have gotten so excited
(09:22):
about doing. I buy the supplies
and I do about a half hour and
then I never do it again.
I have so many blankets that I started
making at one point.
They have moved with me like seven times since
I started them. [laughter] Many of us
have a problem of finishing,
and his message really is about
(09:43):
the reason we don't finish is because of
our perfectionistic expectations.
I don't even remember-- he shares some
statistics early on about New Year's
resolutions, goal setting
and goal completion in general.
And I think he said 92%
of people do not complete their goals.
92%!
(10:04):
It's heartbreaking.
Those don't sound like good odds for us, do
they?
They do not. [laughs]
So the reality is (that's why I
wanted to have this conversation) I think we
need to keep learning how to get out of our
own way, and work
on allowing ourselves to complete
the things that are important to
us.
(10:25):
And the biggest thing to do,
to complete things, is to stop
expecting ourselves to be perfect.
Many of us already know this, but, when it
comes back to the New Year's resolutions-- I
know we're a little bit past the New Year's
time now, but one of the reasons so
many of us don't make much progress
is because they're unrealistic goals
(10:47):
to start with.
We aim for the moon because we've been told
that we should, and at least we'll hit some
good spots along the way, right?
But it's the good spots along the way that we
really should be aiming for.
And so, in his book, he really
addresses how to help us start to
change from setting
(11:09):
unrealistic expectations
and learning to follow through.
And there's this phrase that he uses
- the day after perfection.
And I think what he's referring to by how
he uses it is the day we realize we
aren't perfect at this it at all stops.
And that's the day we need to continue.
(11:30):
So when I think of TFM - the day
I don't complete my 24-hour fast,
that's the time to keep going.
But when we have a perfectionistic
motivation, we just see it
as all lost, all done,
obviously we're not going to succeed because
we didn't do that.
And he gives all kinds of great examples
(11:52):
in the book about how he's experienced
this and how others that he works with
experience this. But that idea that
we expect it to go, and every day
be just right, and every time we attempt
our fast, or every meal we eat will be just
right.
And when we realize it's not, we throw in the
towel. I know our listeners can't see,
(12:13):
but you're nodding as you're listening to me,
so I'm curious, have you experienced
that before?
Oh goodness. Well, first of all, I certainly
have, and it is something that many of my
clients deal with.
They just expected themselves
to be able to change a lifetime's
worth of habits on a dime.
(12:33):
And they're like, "I can't believe I couldn't
just change my entire way of eating, and fast
three times a week, and exercise every day,
and meditate, and get to sleep on time," and
[laughs] this whole laundry list of
things that we talk about being important for
health.
And they're like, "I can't believe I just
can't do all of this stuff." Really?
You can't? [laughs] You haven't done it for
the past 40 years and you thought that a
(12:55):
couple weeks would be all you needed?
Give yourself a little grace!
[laughs].
But Heather, if I do it perfectly, yes,
it will only take that long if
I do it perfectly.
Yeah, well, friend, you
ain't perfect. I'm sorry if I am the first
one to say it, but you are
(13:16):
not perfect.
Not a single one of us are.
And the beauty is, you don't have
to be, as evidenced by Terri's
experience, my experience.
You get to reach goals whilst being imperfect.
Isn't that liberating?
Isn't that exciting?
So, you know, on the note that you were
talking about how people run into the
(13:36):
issue of they have that day
where they're like, "Oh no, I didn't do the
thing," I see that a lot when people
try to do streaks, right?
They'll do something and they'll be like, "I'm
going to exercise every single day."
And then the day that they miss, they're like,
"Well, I didn't do it so I guess I'm just not
going to exercise anymore." [laughs] What
a terrible frame.
(13:58):
And you know, as someone who has fallen into
that, I see it.
I know what the impetus is.
You want to have a string of things and
be able to say, "I did this for
a month, or six months, or a year,"
and, once you can't say that anymore, it
somehow loses its value?
Short story. I used to use Duolingo
to learn Spanish.
(14:18):
You know, in the health clinic that I worked
at, it was a large Hispanic population and I
wanted to learn the language.
And so I did my Duolingo.
I had a 351-day
streak.
And I was in Houston, I didn't have
access to Wi-Fi, and I lost the
streak. I didn't pick up Duolingo ever again.
[laughs] That was the last time.
(14:39):
How foolish,
right? You know, I was kind of making momentum
and learning the language, and I quit because
of some app?
That's ridiculous.
And yet those are the kinds of choices
that we make which are just silly (I'm going
to call it myself - silly) because, of course,
I didn't lose 351 days of
Spanish lessons by missing one day.
(15:01):
And so, for people that are trying to change
their way of eating, or exercise, or
introduce fasting, by missing
one day, you don't lose momentum
of all of those other days.
So I love that framework
that you brought up from the book, Terri, that
it doesn't matter that you missed a day,
it matters what you do the day after.
(15:23):
It matters how quickly you get back
on the saddle and keep riding.
Yes, I think this streaks
analogy is so important
because, as you said,
what we highlight instead of 351
days of learning, you're highlighting
(15:43):
one day, and somehow now
you don't get credit for all
of that growth you've experienced.
Clearly, you probably know some Spanish by
then, but, nope, you don't get credit,
and clearly you should not go on.
I think another piece, that I'm aware of as
we're talking about this, is that, for so
(16:03):
many of us, we do already have
an awareness that we can't do it perfectly.
And so we struggle to get started,
we struggle to maintain, and we've already
identified ourselves as someone who
can't do this.
Yet it's our goal, it's our value,
it's what's so important to us.
But because we see ourselves as someone who
(16:25):
can't make that streak forever,
can't do it perfectly, there's really
no sense in doing it at all.
So I just want to keep reiterating
that point.
In his book, the author-- I didn't mention,
his name is Jon Acuff and the book
is called Finish.
He shares a recommendation
(16:47):
(it's kind of a two-fold recommendation)
that I think most perfectionists,
at this point, would stop listening to his
book, would say, "That man is ridiculous.
I will not read that book.
I am fine doing what I'm doing." But
what he encourages to help us
eliminate some of this perfectionism around
reaching our goal is one of two options.
(17:09):
Cut the goal in half or
double the time frame in
which we expect to reach the goal.
So, around weight loss, I can't, again,
quantify how many times
I've heard someone in our community say,
"I'm turning 50 next year," or, "I turn 65
in September," and, "I need to lose 65
(17:32):
pounds by then," or, "I need to lose 50 pounds
by then," or whatever it is.
And so I think what he would encourage, in
this point, and, again, this is not, "I
have three weeks to lose 60 pounds," but
he would say, "Cut it in half."
He did some studies and gathered
some information on a 30-day,
goal-setting thing that he
(17:54):
runs, an online group.
People set their goal,
and the people who cut their goal
in half not only reach
their goal but exceeded it.
And those who did not cut their goal in half
did probably less than half.
So it's really telling
of the impact of that.
(18:15):
So cutting your goal in half.
So this person who must lose 65
pounds by their birthday next September,
they could cut that back to, "I'm going to
lose 32 pounds."
Something that's more feasible because, again,
oftentimes we set our goals
expecting perfection.
We underestimate how long things
(18:36):
take, we underestimate
the amount of work we'll have to do,
and so we set a really short timeline.
So, again, the flip side of this, if you don't
want to cut the goal in half, is extend
the time frame, double the time frame.
So that same person could say, "I want to lose
65 pounds in 18
months, for my next birthday,
(18:58):
my 66th birthday," so
to double that length of time.
So I'm curious what your thoughts are about
those suggestions and how they might
help with our perfectionistic tendencies.
Terri, I love that so much.
I am absolutely going to be using that with
my clients, because managing
pacing expectations is such
(19:21):
a big part of what we do
as coaches, I would say, right?
The support, the accountability, and the
'keep going'.
I can't tell you how many times I have
clients saying, It's just not working, it's
just not going fast enough." And I'll be like,
"Okay, well, how much weight have you lost
this month?" And they'll be like, "8 pounds."
(19:41):
I'm like, "Well, what was your expectation?"
Right? Half a pound or two pounds a week -
you're doing the max, you're doing amazing.
So even when they're exceeding, or at the
top end of expectations,
they don't even feel like they're being
successful because they have this distorted
view of how long this stuff *should*
take. A lot of times I think that
(20:03):
is is because many of us
only have that experience of losing weight
within the first few weeks, right, when you
have that big swoosh of water weight, and so
you think, "Oh well, that's how much weight I
can lose.
So if I were to keep doing this--" which most
people don't, right, they quit after two
weeks. We've already established that.
"If I keep doing it, I'll just have these big
wooshes weeks after weeks." And of course,
(20:24):
that's not how this works.
You know, fat burning takes much longer then
wooshing [laughs], than water changes
take.
And so, yeah, a big part of what
I do when I'm meeting with people is saying,
you know, hey, this is going to be harder
than you think it's going to be, it's going to
be messy, and it's going to take longer than
you want it to.
And, logically, we should all recognize that
(20:46):
to be true, based on the failure rate, based
on the fact that so many people don't
succeed. So logic dictates,
if it were easy, so many more people would be
successful, but, somehow, people
don't have a good concept of applying
statistics to themselves.
They're like, "Okay, well, it's hard for 97%
of people, but, me, it's going to be fine
(21:07):
and I'm going to do it at the top rate." Like,
how about you just go ahead and accept that
you're a human being too?
It's going to take you a long time too.
And if you're willing to accept that
it's going to take longer than you want it to
and keep going, then your odds
of success increase exponentially.
If you quit, they drop to zero.
(21:28):
Absolutely.
And, along the way, if you keep
going (this topic you and I talk
about so often is), you're building
sustainable habits versus
just reaching your goal, just creating
the outcome.
You're building the lifestyle.
And I know, Heather, this has been really
important in your own journey.
(21:49):
It wasn't just getting to goal that was
important, it's maintaining
the progress that you've made by
having a lifestyle.
And again, I feel like with the fasting
piece, some of us struggle so much with giving
ourselves credit.
"I planned to do a 42 today and I stopped
at 28." It's all or nothing.
(22:10):
If it wasn't 42, it doesn't
count.
That's just so not true.
You benefited from the 28.
So I hope that, after listening to
us today, people will practice
giving credit for what they have done,
not for what they haven't done, what they
didn't do perfectly, but
(22:31):
seeing that moving forward, as
you said earlier, those things
that happen along the way *is* the
progress and that *is* the way to get to goal.
Terri, I mean, this is why you are who you
are. [laughs] I mean, that is just
so fundamentally true.
That perfect point - if you rush
(22:51):
through this thing and get there as fast as
you really want to, the chances
that you're going to have adjusted
the habits that you needed to adjust
permanently are much lower.
So it's almost a good idea to embrace
the fact that it's going to take a long time,
because you will gradually move to
(23:12):
the type of person that you need to be
in order to maintain this new lifestyle.
And when it comes to habit change, as
you mentioned, one of the most important
things that you need to do to create a new
habit is to celebrate
the inputs, right?
You do something that moves you in the right
direction, you celebrate yourself for doing
(23:34):
it. You don't beat yourself up for the stuff
that you don't do. That doesn't build new
habits.
You celebrate what you should be doing.
You can also celebrate yourself for *not*
doing the things that you're trying *not* to
do, that's also a habit-building technique.
Habits are formed in the celebration, and the
reward, and the feeling good about the
movement forward, not in any self-flagellation
(23:56):
about being less than perfect.
None of us are perfect. None of us will be.
So every little movement forward that you
celebrate is getting you closer and closer
to becoming the person you're trying to be.
The healthy person with these new lifestyle
changes that can hopefully serve you
till the end of your days.
So to sum that up, folks,
the problem of perfectionism is that it is
(24:17):
the killer of a long-term lifestyle.
So we look forward to talking
to you again soon, Heather, and
I hope our listeners take good
care.
Make good choices, everybody.
Before we get started with today's episode,
I would like to quickly read you our podcast
disclaimer.
This podcast is for educational purposes
only, and it is not a substitute
for professional care by a doctor
or other qualified medical professional.
You should always speak with your physician
(00:27):
or other healthcare professionals before doing
any fasting, changing your diet
in any way, taking or adjusting
any medications or supplements, or
adopting any treatment plan
for a health problem.
The use of any other products or
services purchased by you as a result
of this podcast does not create
(00:50):
a healthcare provider-patient
relationship between you and any
of the experts affiliated with this
podcast.
Any Information and statements
regarding dietary supplements have not
been evaluated by the Food and Drug
Administration and are not intended
to diagnose, treat, cure, or
(01:11):
prevent any disease.
All right. And now we will get started with
today's episode.
Welcome back to another episode of The
Fasting Method podcast.
This is Coach Terri Lance and I
am here with Coach Heather Shuker.
Heather, how are you doing today?
I'm doing great as usual, Terri.
How are you?
(01:31):
I'm good.
I love getting to record these with you
because it just feels like we just
stopped somewhere, and we're just going to
pick it up again and, you know, just keep
running this ball down the field.
So I'm very excited about today's
topic.
The way you and I decided that we would
approach it is referring to this as-- [drum
roll]
(01:54):
the problem of perfectionism.
I feel like we need a big drum roll or some
[laughter] real music here.
Daisy, maybe you could put that in when you
edit. But one
of the reasons I wanted to do this topic
with you, Heather, is-- I can't
remember if it's a client that we share
or maybe someone in the TFM Community,
(02:16):
but they recently said, "You know,
Coach Heather told me maybe I needed to allow
myself to just do this and be a little messy
with it." So she and I talked about
getting rid of the perfectionistic
approach to fasting, to eating,
and things. So I have been
listening to a book that is very
(02:37):
focused on perfectionism, and I think it's a
fantastic book so I'll bring in some things
about that.
But that's really what made me decide to ask
if you wanted to cover this topic, because I
can tell it's something that you've given
some thought to and have some experience
with.
Terri, I can't even tell you how many clients
I have had to say, "Be willing
(02:58):
to do it messy." So
often clients come to us and they
expect to be expert beginners.
That's an oxymoron, that
doesn't exist.
When you start something new, you aren't
going to be perfect. That's the whole point.
You're a beginner. You have to try and
fail and try again before
you can develop mastery.
(03:19):
And the beauty of lifestyle change is
you get benefit in the trying.
So even if it is a little messy,
you're still moving forward in
your journey.
And that's really what we're all here to do.
I love that way of thinking about it, that
there's benefit when
it's not perfect.
And I, too, with clients
(03:42):
and Community members, hear that theme so
often that, "I
should already be perfect at this."
How?
I started fasting-- let me think,
I don't know, like eight years ago, and
I'm still refining it, I'm still
learning new things.
Sometimes my fasts are complicated
and they don't work real well, and other times
(04:05):
I feel like I'm on top of the world.
But if I use that lens of perfectionism,
I would never do another one again,
because the odds of me having a perfect fast
and doing it perfectly is pretty
darn slim.
Exactly. And the other thing that I see that's
in that same vein is you'll see people
that start The Fasting Method
(04:26):
as recommended.
We start about starting at the low end of the
fasting dial and gradually moving yourself
up. So they'll start with TRE
(time-restricted eating), they'll be eating
two meals a day with no snacking.
Everything's going great and they're like,
"Okay, I've done that a week.
Let's go ahead and ramp up to,
you know, 24-hour fasts,"
(04:47):
OMADs (one meal a day) [laughs] all the
acronyms, right?
And they'll do that for a week and they'll be
like, "Okay, got that. Move on." And you'll
see them ramping up the fasting
dial (because if a little is good, more
is better) and they'll keep moving the
goal posts on themselves, and making it more
and more difficult until they burnout,
(05:08):
and they get overwhelmed and they quit.
And what benefit did that do them?
Part of being the beginner, part
of accepting that this is going to be
messy, is also accepting that it's
going to take a little time to get up to,
you know, the pace of something like three 42s
a week, which is a very intense, therapeutic
fast.
(05:28):
And so being willing to kind of sit
with things a little bit longer is part
of being a beginner and taking
your time and not expecting to be a
perfect a student right out of the gate.
Yeah, that's a really good point.
This idea that because
in order to succeed with this, I must become
perfect. Even if I accept that I might not
(05:49):
begin as perfect, I must become
perfect.
We just keep moving that goalpost -
go faster, get there sooner, "It
looks like this," "Oh, wait.
No, it looks like this." And
often, in doing so, we're not even
paying attention to what's actually
working, what's actually not working, what
are the things that are causing interference?
(06:12):
We are just holding ourselves to a timeline.
And I think that's part, for many of us, of
a perfectionism piece about this.
There's a right amount of time.
Sometimes it's challenging for me here at
the podcast or in Community meetings
because people want to know, "Well, how long
will this take?" "I heard Coach
(06:33):
Heather say it took her this amount."
It's like a poker game, "I'm going to see your
six months and I'm going to raise it.
I'm going to do four and a half months."
And again, that somehow getting there faster
is the goal.
Taking less time to achieve my goal
is even better.
I often hear people falling into that
(06:53):
trap of perfectionism.
Oh my gosh, yes.
And, you know, back to my example about moving
the goalposts, a lot of times because they've
heard people say, "Three 42s
is the gold standard," they want to get there
as fast as possible so they can gold-standard
their way, you know, across their finish line
in six months flat.
And, yeah, I'm part of the problem [laughs],
(07:14):
I admit it, but I think
what people don't think about or remember
about my story is that I was fasting
on and off for two years before I joined
this community and was able to start
that therapeutic fasting.
So there was a whole lot of
OMADs before I started therapeutic fasting
regimens. So let's just clear the air on that.
(07:35):
But having this kind of unrealistic
expectation that you're going to be perfect,
on point, six months straight with no
vacations, no birthdays, no holidays,
no nothing getting in the way between you
doing everything perfectly is just
unrealistic.
And, so often, pacing is such a
huge issue for people and what makes
(07:55):
people want to quit out of frustration,
and so I think managing those expectations
around pacing is really important.
And the perfectionists are the ones that it's
hardest with because they think, "Well, I'm
just going to do everything right and then I
will go as fast as it is supposed
to." Careful with what is 'supposed'
to happen because that's--
(08:16):
there's no prescription there...
Absolutely.
...on what's supposed to happen. What happens
happens.
So I mentioned earlier, one of the other
reasons that I wanted to have this
conversation with you today is I'm reading a
book, and I know you should never
explain a book before you finish reading it,
but I'm so excited about this topic.
So look out, y'all will probably be hearing a
(08:37):
lot more about it. It's a book called
Finish, and
the author's whole point, so
far, really, is that
the challenge with people reaching their
goals-- he used to think it was a problem
of not starting, and so he taught people
how to start. How to get started when you have
a goal. If you want to write a book, sit
(09:00):
down and write the first three pages and then
you'll just take off.
But he realized more recently and really
studying it and reflecting on it, the bigger
problem is not finishing.
And in reality, many of us are really good at
starting goals.
I cannot even tell you how many craft
projects I have gotten so excited
(09:22):
about doing. I buy the supplies
and I do about a half hour and
then I never do it again.
I have so many blankets that I started
making at one point.
They have moved with me like seven times since
I started them. [laughter] Many of us
have a problem of finishing,
and his message really is about
(09:43):
the reason we don't finish is because of
our perfectionistic expectations.
I don't even remember-- he shares some
statistics early on about New Year's
resolutions, goal setting
and goal completion in general.
And I think he said 92%
of people do not complete their goals.
92%!
(10:04):
It's heartbreaking.
Those don't sound like good odds for us, do
they?
They do not. [laughs]
So the reality is (that's why I
wanted to have this conversation) I think we
need to keep learning how to get out of our
own way, and work
on allowing ourselves to complete
the things that are important to
us.
(10:25):
And the biggest thing to do,
to complete things, is to stop
expecting ourselves to be perfect.
Many of us already know this, but, when it
comes back to the New Year's resolutions-- I
know we're a little bit past the New Year's
time now, but one of the reasons so
many of us don't make much progress
is because they're unrealistic goals
(10:47):
to start with.
We aim for the moon because we've been told
that we should, and at least we'll hit some
good spots along the way, right?
But it's the good spots along the way that we
really should be aiming for.
And so, in his book, he really
addresses how to help us start to
change from setting
(11:09):
unrealistic expectations
and learning to follow through.
And there's this phrase that he uses
- the day after perfection.
And I think what he's referring to by how
he uses it is the day we realize we
aren't perfect at this it at all stops.
And that's the day we need to continue.
(11:30):
So when I think of TFM - the day
I don't complete my 24-hour fast,
that's the time to keep going.
But when we have a perfectionistic
motivation, we just see it
as all lost, all done,
obviously we're not going to succeed because
we didn't do that.
And he gives all kinds of great examples
(11:52):
in the book about how he's experienced
this and how others that he works with
experience this. But that idea that
we expect it to go, and every day
be just right, and every time we attempt
our fast, or every meal we eat will be just
right.
And when we realize it's not, we throw in the
towel. I know our listeners can't see,
(12:13):
but you're nodding as you're listening to me,
so I'm curious, have you experienced
that before?
Oh goodness. Well, first of all, I certainly
have, and it is something that many of my
clients deal with.
They just expected themselves
to be able to change a lifetime's
worth of habits on a dime.
(12:33):
And they're like, "I can't believe I couldn't
just change my entire way of eating, and fast
three times a week, and exercise every day,
and meditate, and get to sleep on time," and
[laughs] this whole laundry list of
things that we talk about being important for
health.
And they're like, "I can't believe I just
can't do all of this stuff." Really?
You can't? [laughs] You haven't done it for
the past 40 years and you thought that a
(12:55):
couple weeks would be all you needed?
Give yourself a little grace!
[laughs].
But Heather, if I do it perfectly, yes,
it will only take that long if
I do it perfectly.
Yeah, well, friend, you
ain't perfect. I'm sorry if I am the first
one to say it, but you are
(13:16):
not perfect.
Not a single one of us are.
And the beauty is, you don't have
to be, as evidenced by Terri's
experience, my experience.
You get to reach goals whilst being imperfect.
Isn't that liberating?
Isn't that exciting?
So, you know, on the note that you were
talking about how people run into the
(13:36):
issue of they have that day
where they're like, "Oh no, I didn't do the
thing," I see that a lot when people
try to do streaks, right?
They'll do something and they'll be like, "I'm
going to exercise every single day."
And then the day that they miss, they're like,
"Well, I didn't do it so I guess I'm just not
going to exercise anymore." [laughs] What
a terrible frame.
(13:58):
And you know, as someone who has fallen into
that, I see it.
I know what the impetus is.
You want to have a string of things and
be able to say, "I did this for
a month, or six months, or a year,"
and, once you can't say that anymore, it
somehow loses its value?
Short story. I used to use Duolingo
to learn Spanish.
(14:18):
You know, in the health clinic that I worked
at, it was a large Hispanic population and I
wanted to learn the language.
And so I did my Duolingo.
I had a 351-day
streak.
And I was in Houston, I didn't have
access to Wi-Fi, and I lost the
streak. I didn't pick up Duolingo ever again.
[laughs] That was the last time.
(14:39):
How foolish,
right? You know, I was kind of making momentum
and learning the language, and I quit because
of some app?
That's ridiculous.
And yet those are the kinds of choices
that we make which are just silly (I'm going
to call it myself - silly) because, of course,
I didn't lose 351 days of
Spanish lessons by missing one day.
(15:01):
And so, for people that are trying to change
their way of eating, or exercise, or
introduce fasting, by missing
one day, you don't lose momentum
of all of those other days.
So I love that framework
that you brought up from the book, Terri, that
it doesn't matter that you missed a day,
it matters what you do the day after.
(15:23):
It matters how quickly you get back
on the saddle and keep riding.
Yes, I think this streaks
analogy is so important
because, as you said,
what we highlight instead of 351
days of learning, you're highlighting
(15:43):
one day, and somehow now
you don't get credit for all
of that growth you've experienced.
Clearly, you probably know some Spanish by
then, but, nope, you don't get credit,
and clearly you should not go on.
I think another piece, that I'm aware of as
we're talking about this, is that, for so
(16:03):
many of us, we do already have
an awareness that we can't do it perfectly.
And so we struggle to get started,
we struggle to maintain, and we've already
identified ourselves as someone who
can't do this.
Yet it's our goal, it's our value,
it's what's so important to us.
But because we see ourselves as someone who
(16:25):
can't make that streak forever,
can't do it perfectly, there's really
no sense in doing it at all.
So I just want to keep reiterating
that point.
In his book, the author-- I didn't mention,
his name is Jon Acuff and the book
is called Finish.
He shares a recommendation
(16:47):
(it's kind of a two-fold recommendation)
that I think most perfectionists,
at this point, would stop listening to his
book, would say, "That man is ridiculous.
I will not read that book.
I am fine doing what I'm doing." But
what he encourages to help us
eliminate some of this perfectionism around
reaching our goal is one of two options.
(17:09):
Cut the goal in half or
double the time frame in
which we expect to reach the goal.
So, around weight loss, I can't, again,
quantify how many times
I've heard someone in our community say,
"I'm turning 50 next year," or, "I turn 65
in September," and, "I need to lose 65
(17:32):
pounds by then," or, "I need to lose 50 pounds
by then," or whatever it is.
And so I think what he would encourage, in
this point, and, again, this is not, "I
have three weeks to lose 60 pounds," but
he would say, "Cut it in half."
He did some studies and gathered
some information on a 30-day,
goal-setting thing that he
(17:54):
runs, an online group.
People set their goal,
and the people who cut their goal
in half not only reach
their goal but exceeded it.
And those who did not cut their goal in half
did probably less than half.
So it's really telling
of the impact of that.
(18:15):
So cutting your goal in half.
So this person who must lose 65
pounds by their birthday next September,
they could cut that back to, "I'm going to
lose 32 pounds."
Something that's more feasible because, again,
oftentimes we set our goals
expecting perfection.
We underestimate how long things
(18:36):
take, we underestimate
the amount of work we'll have to do,
and so we set a really short timeline.
So, again, the flip side of this, if you don't
want to cut the goal in half, is extend
the time frame, double the time frame.
So that same person could say, "I want to lose
65 pounds in 18
months, for my next birthday,
(18:58):
my 66th birthday," so
to double that length of time.
So I'm curious what your thoughts are about
those suggestions and how they might
help with our perfectionistic tendencies.
Terri, I love that so much.
I am absolutely going to be using that with
my clients, because managing
pacing expectations is such
(19:21):
a big part of what we do
as coaches, I would say, right?
The support, the accountability, and the
'keep going'.
I can't tell you how many times I have
clients saying, It's just not working, it's
just not going fast enough." And I'll be like,
"Okay, well, how much weight have you lost
this month?" And they'll be like, "8 pounds."
(19:41):
I'm like, "Well, what was your expectation?"
Right? Half a pound or two pounds a week -
you're doing the max, you're doing amazing.
So even when they're exceeding, or at the
top end of expectations,
they don't even feel like they're being
successful because they have this distorted
view of how long this stuff *should*
take. A lot of times I think that
(20:03):
is is because many of us
only have that experience of losing weight
within the first few weeks, right, when you
have that big swoosh of water weight, and so
you think, "Oh well, that's how much weight I
can lose.
So if I were to keep doing this--" which most
people don't, right, they quit after two
weeks. We've already established that.
"If I keep doing it, I'll just have these big
wooshes weeks after weeks." And of course,
(20:24):
that's not how this works.
You know, fat burning takes much longer then
wooshing [laughs], than water changes
take.
And so, yeah, a big part of what
I do when I'm meeting with people is saying,
you know, hey, this is going to be harder
than you think it's going to be, it's going to
be messy, and it's going to take longer than
you want it to.
And, logically, we should all recognize that
(20:46):
to be true, based on the failure rate, based
on the fact that so many people don't
succeed. So logic dictates,
if it were easy, so many more people would be
successful, but, somehow, people
don't have a good concept of applying
statistics to themselves.
They're like, "Okay, well, it's hard for 97%
of people, but, me, it's going to be fine
(21:07):
and I'm going to do it at the top rate." Like,
how about you just go ahead and accept that
you're a human being too?
It's going to take you a long time too.
And if you're willing to accept that
it's going to take longer than you want it to
and keep going, then your odds
of success increase exponentially.
If you quit, they drop to zero.
(21:28):
Absolutely.
And, along the way, if you keep
going (this topic you and I talk
about so often is), you're building
sustainable habits versus
just reaching your goal, just creating
the outcome.
You're building the lifestyle.
And I know, Heather, this has been really
important in your own journey.
(21:49):
It wasn't just getting to goal that was
important, it's maintaining
the progress that you've made by
having a lifestyle.
And again, I feel like with the fasting
piece, some of us struggle so much with giving
ourselves credit.
"I planned to do a 42 today and I stopped
at 28." It's all or nothing.
(22:10):
If it wasn't 42, it doesn't
count.
That's just so not true.
You benefited from the 28.
So I hope that, after listening to
us today, people will practice
giving credit for what they have done,
not for what they haven't done, what they
didn't do perfectly, but
(22:31):
seeing that moving forward, as
you said earlier, those things
that happen along the way *is* the
progress and that *is* the way to get to goal.
Terri, I mean, this is why you are who you
are. [laughs] I mean, that is just
so fundamentally true.
That perfect point - if you rush
(22:51):
through this thing and get there as fast as
you really want to, the chances
that you're going to have adjusted
the habits that you needed to adjust
permanently are much lower.
So it's almost a good idea to embrace
the fact that it's going to take a long time,
because you will gradually move to
(23:12):
the type of person that you need to be
in order to maintain this new lifestyle.
And when it comes to habit change, as
you mentioned, one of the most important
things that you need to do to create a new
habit is to celebrate
the inputs, right?
You do something that moves you in the right
direction, you celebrate yourself for doing
(23:34):
it. You don't beat yourself up for the stuff
that you don't do. That doesn't build new
habits.
You celebrate what you should be doing.
You can also celebrate yourself for *not*
doing the things that you're trying *not* to
do, that's also a habit-building technique.
Habits are formed in the celebration, and the
reward, and the feeling good about the
movement forward, not in any self-flagellation
(23:56):
about being less than perfect.
None of us are perfect. None of us will be.
So every little movement forward that you
celebrate is getting you closer and closer
to becoming the person you're trying to be.
The healthy person with these new lifestyle
changes that can hopefully serve you
till the end of your days.
So to sum that up, folks,
the problem of perfectionism is that it is
(24:17):
the killer of a long-term lifestyle.
So we look forward to talking
to you again soon, Heather, and
I hope our listeners take good
care.
Make good choices, everybody.
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