February 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Episode #191
In this episode of The Fasting Method podcast, Megan Ramos interviews Dr. Nadia Pateguana and her incredible daughter, Zinzi, about their new podcast - Forbidden. Dr. Nadia previously shared she was stepping away from TFM to focus on her daughter's health, as well as a big move to Dubai. Dr. Nadia and Zinzi share all of the incredible insights and work they've been doing to help Zinzi as she navigates disordered eating.
Megan and Dr. Nadia discuss how so many women are often undiagnosed with conditions like ADHD in childhood and how that can go on to impact their eating habits later in life.
- The importance of understanding neurodivergence, as ADHD often presents differently in women and girls compared to boys. [08:01] [30:25]
- The role of a supportive community, especially the Fasting Method Community, in providing guidance and a safe space to share their story. [13:41]
- Encouraging others, especially women, to advocate for themselves and seek proper diagnosis and support for ADHD and eating disorders, as these conditions are often overlooked or misdiagnosed. [15:54] [20:23] [26:28]
- Strategies Nadia and Zinzi have implemented at home, such as using calendars and schedules to help Zinzi stay organized, as well as avoiding restrictive diets and instead focusing on building a healthy relationship with food. [19:02]
There is a video of this podcast which you can watch here: https://youtu.be/sI68Aoqq5xc
Dr. Nadia’s Links:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nadia_pateguana
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DoctorNadia
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This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional care by a doctor or other qualified medical professional. You should always speak with your physician or other healthcare professional before doing any fasting, changing your diet, taking or adjusting any medication or supplements, or adopting any treatment for a health problem. The use of any other products or services purchased by you as a result of this podcast does not create a healthcare provider-patient relationship between you and any of the experts affiliated with this podcast. Information and statements regarding dietary supplements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:06):
Before we get started with today's episode,
I would like to quickly read you our podcast
disclaimer.
This podcast is for educational
purposes only, and it is
not a substitute for professional care
by a doctor or other qualified
medical professional.
You should always speak with your physician
(00:27):
or other healthcare professionals before
doing any fasting, changing
your diet in any way, taking or
adjusting any medications or supplements,
or adopting any treatment plan
for a health problem.
The use of any other products or
services purchased by you as a result
of this podcast does not create
(00:50):
a healthcare provider-patient
relationship between you and
any of the experts affiliated
with this podcast.
Any information and statements
regarding dietary supplements have not
been evaluated by the Food and Drug
Administration and are not intended
to diagnose, treat, cure,
(01:11):
or prevent any disease.
All right. And now we'll get started with
today's episode.
Hi everyone. It's Megan Ramos here with
another episode of The Fasting Method
podcast. It's actually been a minute since
I've recorded, but I'm super excited to hop
back into it today.
We have some very special guests.
(01:32):
I'd like to introduce these two incredible
ladies who have changed my life, and it's
such a pleasure to be part of their journey
as well. And it's also kind of a weird
introduction because she is usually
my co-host on these podcasts, but, today,
she's here as a guest.
It's been a minute.
We'd like to welcome Dr. Nadia and her
incredible daughter, Zinzi, to the show.
(01:53):
How are you doing today, ladies?
Hi, everyone.
I'm good. How about you, Zinzi? .
I'm good, thank you.
We just spent the last 20 minutes catching
up because Megan and I, whenever
we're together, it's-- yeah, but it's been a
minute.
It has been a minute. I mean, we've been so
privileged to work with friends, who
are like family, over the years,
(02:14):
and, as Nadia shared on a previous episode
of The Fasting Method podcast, she had a real
big move to Dubai and
just a lot of motherhood stuff to
focus on. So she's stepped away
from doing some Fasting Method stuff,
although I'm trying to reel her back in for a
few webinars this summer, or special
workshops this summer, rather, But, aside
(02:36):
from that, she started a really cool project
with her daughter, Zinzi, and they have a
really incredible story to tell.
So, Nadia, Zinzi, tell us what you've
been up to during this break, since we
last heard from Dr. Nadia.
I'm going to let Zinzi take over because she,
I think you'll-- when she starts talking,
she's great.
If I do all the talking, then
(02:58):
we're going to miss out, really.
So how about, Zinzi, you tell us what's our
life been like since August?
I'll start with this.
I recorded with, I think
it was Terri, right, in July.
And I told everybody in our community that,
after eight years, eight amazing years,
I needed to take some time for
my family and for myself, not just because we
were moving from Europe to Dubai, so
(03:21):
from Portugal, where we were, to Dubai.
But I did allude to, in that recording,
that there was some stuff going on in our
family. I was feeling very overwhelmed.
In the meantime, no surprise, no shocker
(I mean, it's going to be in the show notes)
that I started a podcast. It was sort of one
of these spur-of-the-moment things.
Plus, I had some experience with you, right?
You and I had been doing the TFM
(03:43):
podcast for a while.
And so, out of nowhere, Zinzi
and I were sitting in a car driving back from
one of her photoshoots for her dance (you
know, she does performing arts and whatnot),
and decided on the spot, "Hey,
let's start a podcast." And I think it was a
brilliant idea because it really did open
up the conversation between Zinzi and I.
(04:04):
During the very first episode of our podcast,
I said, "You know, some of you may know
that I took some time off work, and the
reason for it is sitting right here in front
of me, and that's my 14 year old daughter
(13 at a time), Zinzi, who
has an eating disorder." And that's how we
started our podcast.
And so I'll let Zinzi tell
us a bit more what we've been up to.
(04:26):
Okay. Since October,
we've been recording almost every week
and we've just been sharing kind of what it's
been like with disordered eating and
binge eating.
We've done six episodes so far, and, in the
midst of that, discovered that-- well, we
sort of knew. I had some suspicions
that Zinzi was neurodivergent.
I think we both are, Zinzi and I, always
(04:48):
talking about her superpowers, right, because
neurodivergent people often have superpowers.
So we
went down that rabbit hole and then
Zinzi got diagnosed with ADHD.
So our podcast has really been talking about
the relationship between disordered
eating and-- recently, in the
neurodivergents, the ADHD-- and why
(05:10):
it is that women, particularly women and
girls, that have ADHD, are
3.6 times more likely to have an eating
disorder. And so the more we talk about
it, the more we get feedback from people
telling us, "Oh my gosh, that was me," you
know, "This is me," "That sounds like me."
And we have full-grown women sending
us messages saying how
much they've learned from a 13, 14-year-old
(05:32):
now. And so this is what really is
getting us to continue.
And from the beginning, we continue with this
motto of 'no blame, no shame' because I think
that was a big thing that was holding us
back. It was the guilt that I felt.
I wouldn't tell people about it, I wouldn't
share-- Zinzi's had some form of disordered
eating since she was six months old.
And so it was-- the guilt of it
(05:53):
was huge. And then it was really, you
know, the influence of-- luckily, the
tide is sort of-- things are changing
and more and more people are being so
open about their neurodivergence
or eating disorders.
And so it was in that conversation in the car
that Zinzi and I thought, "This is what we've
gotta do. We've got to talk about it openly."
Even within our family, it's made such a huge
(06:14):
difference. Older generations,
the way they look at Zinzi and I.
You know, the same people that maybe only a
few months ago were
criticizing us quite a bit, right (with the
best of intentions, I always say this),
they're the same people that are now able to
look at this and say, "Oh my gosh, you guys
are helping so many people.
This is so great.
You're doing the right thing." All of a
(06:36):
sudden, just us saying to
ourselves, "No blame, no shame,"
has had such an impact, even on the people
around us.
I think it's so incredibly brave.
I was really excited when I heard about your
podcast coming out.
It's called Forbidden, for anyone who's
listening today who wants to check it out.
Then you and I connected, Nadia, and I
(06:57):
thought, "We've got to bring this to people,"
because, when I first thought of it-- you
know, of course, this is her home.
She's always welcome on this podcast to talk
about anything she wants, but something
that Nadia (especially as the mom
of young, adolescent girls)
was constantly asked in our community is
how to help people's children,
grandchildren, nieces and nephews, especially
(07:19):
daughters, in this day and age with social
media and all this kind of stuff.
And it was like, okay, there are so many
parents, so many grandparents, aunts, uncles
who need to hear this, and need to learn
about it, and educate themselves because
they're begging for it in our community
and in our coaching program.
I've been following along for a lot
(07:40):
of the journey so far.
It hasn't been perfect because, as I shared,
my son doesn't sleep and neither do I,
but it's just been really interesting for me,
as an adult.
And I started to think how this could be so
interesting for other women in our community,
of all ages, because I truly believe,
in order to understand where you are and
where you need to go, you need to understand
where you came from.
(08:01):
So hearing Zinzi talk, Zinzi and you
sharing your story, and being so open
and vulnerable with everybody, you
know, even a 40-year-old woman like me is
saying, "Okay, I had anorexia
nervosa at 14." I was actually
hospitalized at the hospital for sick
children very briefly for it, and
then I was in outpatient therapy for like
(08:22):
a year dealing with it.
And then, at 20, I was finally diagnosed
with ADHD because, especially
back then, girls did not get diagnosed,
like, it wasn't even thought to be something
a girl could have.
And then when I was recently pregnant (well,
it's not that recent, my kids almost
a year and a half now), we had a doula,
and she was going through some stuff with me,
(08:43):
and she was like, "You're a highly-sensitive
person." And I was just
like, "Well, I'm just empathetic."
And then she was like, "No, you're
neurodivergent." And I was
like, "What are you talking about?
I'm one of these functional-health people.
I'm a bit of a guru.
I would know if I'm this or that." And then
she just kind of rolled her eyes at me and
(09:05):
was like, "All right, let's just proceed with
your birthing plan." And then I started
looking into it and I was like, "Oh my gosh,
these patterns." I'm kind of like you,
Zinzi, I suspect, like, from really early
on I had-- I've always had weird
eating things, for as long as I can remember.
And my mom will always tell me too,
since a baby, these patterns.
(09:26):
So it's been so eye opening for me to sort
of understand how I got here.
Now, obviously, I'm in a pretty good health
place and have a good relationship with food
now, but I think it's so important
to have this understanding and even reflect
this far into my journey.
So I want to hear sort of what are the big
messages that you really want to get
(09:47):
out there, really want people to just start
understanding about these
relationships, how they tie in with eating
addictions.
I think one that's very important,
not just eating disorders or ADHD
or anything, is that people have things that
they can't control.
People need to understand that and know that
because, like I said in one of the episodes
(10:08):
that we've recorded, you can't just judge
someone not knowing what's really going on.
It's so important.
This is so true. The neurodivergence thing,
which, again, superpowers, right?
The neurodivergent people are the
entrepreneurs.
I think we talk about [unintelligible] at
some point, Zinzi and I, because now we're
always trying to diagnose people, right?
[laughter] And so it's so interesting.
(10:29):
I follow a lot of these experts,
these doctors, that talk about
why ADHD (it's a genetic trait)
has sort of not been wiped out, and
it's because these were the hunter-gatherers,
these were the people that protected their
communities, these were the people that had
an immense amount of energy to actually do
the work. You know, maybe our soldiers.
(10:50):
You know, these are the people that
stand out.
And so, as they say, ADHD
and neurodivergence really works for people
until it doesn't.
And then it's these things, you know, like
binge eating.
Obviously, this is not working because, up
until now, it was totally working for her.
And we hear a lot about women, like you were
saying, that don't get diagnosed until much
(11:11):
later, usually until they have kids.
Because up until then, they can balance all
the balls, they can juggle all the balls.
The minute that they have a kid-- and I was
like that. You know, I wonder about my own--
I definitely wouldn't say-- and I think you
know me well enough. I definitely wouldn't
say that I am typical, neurotypical.
So, anyway, we're all on the spectrum, no
doubt about it, but what Zinzi just said is
(11:33):
that, had we understood this, especially
with her eating journey, it
would have been so much better because,
instead of blaming her and spending so
much time-- and I talked about this.
This is one of the messages, like you said,
you know, what would I-- it's this people
have no idea how stressful being
around a dinner table can be for a family
(11:54):
of people with eating disorders,
how stressful.
How much-- not just the criticism that's
there, but on both sides,
and then everyone else around because
everyone has an opinion.
And I think that, if you come to the table
already armed with the information that we've
just recently found out, it makes
a big difference. It makes a huge difference.
(12:15):
You know, you deal with things totally
different. It brings down the stress a ton.
And you were saying, Megan, that you went
through all of this as a younger woman, and
now you have a great relationship with food.
And so will Zinzi.
She will have a great relationship with food.
No doubt about that.
And you both, ladies, both
of you are doing such hard work.
(12:35):
You know, you're digging in, learning
the information, and then information
enables us to take action, which is
a huge superpower.
So I know people who are listening have
two big focuses.
Nadia, you know where I'm going with this.
One, they want to know how do they get this
information?
How do they find out about
(12:55):
diagnoses?
Is it something that they have to do
on their own, kind of like a lot of their
metabolic health they're figuring out on
their own, or are there any resources
(aside from your podcast of course) that you
have found to be super helpful?
I know you go through a lot of this stuff in
your podcast, so everyone should 100% follow,
subscribe.
Wherever you are, you're going to learn so
(13:17):
much to help you and your family.
And then, two, what great actions have you
taken? What steps are you taking at home
to get from this place of, 'okay,
we're struggling' to 'now we're making
progress'. And, again, I know a lot of
this is in your podcast, too, but, if you
could share some snippets of each
of these information pathways with our
(13:39):
listeners, that would be fantastic.
Well, I wanted to say something that's
really-- I think this is the place to say it.
If it wasn't for this community, the TFM
Community, none of this would be happening.
I was telling Zinzi this today.
They were the first people that I talked to
openly and honestly about this in safety.
I felt so safe.
I didn't feel safe in my own world.
(14:00):
And so, if it wasn't for the TFM Community,
I would not have gotten to where we are
today, I wouldn't have taken the steps that I
have taken, and I wouldn't have even realized
most of this. It was that community,
particular individuals in that community,
that talked to me for the very first time
about my mom guilt and how
I needed to address that, and so many other
things. There are still people in the
(14:21):
Community that I still get amazing
messages from, to this day,
and I believe I will continue to.
I still feel like I'm part of that community,
even though I've taken some time away.
So first, I wanted to-- because I know a lot
of them are listening in-- that many
of them I had shared-- it was such a safe
place for me to come and to share, so
I owe them a ton.
(14:42):
And just sharing their stories-- I learned--
I always said this, right, even as a coach,
that I've learned a lot more from
our community and our clients than
I've ever taught them.
And I believe that to be true to this day.
So our podcast is on my YouTube
channel. It's doctornadia.com.
That's my website and YouTube.
(15:02):
So you can go to
d o c t o r n a d i a, spell out Dr. Nadia,
and that's my YouTube.
For now, it's a video podcast
because Zinzi likes to be on video.
She's a performer. We talk a ton about this.
This is one of her many superpowers, her
hyperfocus, which makes her extremely
dedicated. So you can get a lot in that,
(15:23):
but it really is step-by-step, and it has
been step-by-step with us.
I'm always maybe a step or two ahead of
Zinzi, but it's because I'm learning
and preparing before I
throw her in there.
In the six episodes that we have
recorded, in the show notes, I've shared
all the links, all the research.
So we've done a bit of everything.
(15:44):
Recently, somebody from the Community
recommended a book (it's actually a textbook)
that I cannot wait to receive, and I'll
be reading it and then of course sharing it.
At this point, Zinzi has a
psychiatrist.
She did have some counseling in Portugal,
but it wasn't focused on this and they were
so off the mark, unfortunately, like so
(16:05):
off. And I felt like I was
pretty sure of what was going on.
And so at this point, luckily for us,
you know, she's got a psychiatrist that deals
with her ADHD, she's medicated
for the ADHD. It has made a difference.
And I think this is what she was talking
about. You know, it's really important when
we are able to say to somebody, "Really, it's
not your fault. It's not that you don't know
(16:27):
what to do or how to do it,
but, really, if you ever-- so you were
asking, do people really have to sometimes
diagnose this in themselves?
But this is the grassroots movement that
we're used to, right, advocating for
yourself. And then finding the right experts.
There are a ton out there.
She's going to start seeing a counselor who
specializes in both ADHD and
(16:49):
eating disorders. Not a shocker considering
the immense link out there.
And so I would highly advise, especially
women-- again, it's very likely
that a woman may have ADHD
and never have been diagnosed because we mask
it. We are master hiders.
We spend so much of our energy, as women--
(17:09):
and I say 'we', not that I
have ADHD. I'm not sure that I do, but I
definitely think that there's some
neurodivergence, and that's worked in my
favor, right? I hyperfocused
on school. Zinzi is all about performing,
but, for me, it's all about how I always
want to show off my brains.
I want to exercise my brain, I want to learn
as much as I can, and share as much as I can.
(17:30):
And so, if there are women out there who feel
like-- and these are the women that I've
always worked with, you know, the CEOs, the
surgeons, the mothers of five
and eight kids that just can do
it all, but they would say to me, "Why is it
that I can do it all and I can't do this?
I cannot deal with food?"
And so I think that's key.
(17:50):
As far as kids and teenagers go,
my real concern is we don't get them properly
diagnosed.
They're going to be a lot more labelled in
life. People are very worried about labels,
but, if kids don't get properly diagnosed,
they're a lot more labeled, a lot more
criticized.
Then we don't know what to do either, so we
can't help them.
But there's a lot to this.
(18:11):
The food addiction that comes with this
could later on move on to other
substances. And so it's really important that
we understand this very early on.
And I'm very concerned about that from having
other experiences and seeing other people's
experiences. So we're learning from each
other really.
That's fantastic. It is hard work.
It is definitely hard work.
(18:32):
You're doing a lot of great things - seeking
the right experts, identifying when an
expert doesn't necessarily feel right, and
then pivoting to someone who does.
And then, because of your background, you're
able to say, "Okay, I don't think that
person's doing so well in serving
my kid.
This is kind of what I think's going on.
You know, let's explore this path with the
(18:54):
expert that's a little bit more niche in
this particular subject and
see what's going on there." So a lot of
expert supports.
Are there some strategies that you're
implementing at home as a family
to help Zinzi feel more comfortable
being Zinzi and just like thriving
in all of the amazing
(19:14):
Zinziness [laughs] that you are?
What are some little things that you're doing
at home (maybe it's just you, Zinzi) that
you're trying to focus on every day
to help you sort of crush this journey?
Because, like your mom said, you've got so
many superpowers.
So it's like saying, "Okay, I've got these
superpowers. They're not deficits, they're
superpowers. How am
I going to exploit these superpowers to be
(19:36):
a superhuman and incredible woman?"
Or are there some things that you're doing at
home or at school that you've found to
be really helpful?
At home, I think it's really just like the
little things that will make you go
far. For example, just normal
things like remembering to put an hour
of work in every single day of studying.
(19:57):
Also, at school, I've started using an online
calendar and reminders because, before, when
I had homework, I just physically couldn't
remember, and, by the day it was due,
I didn't even know we had it because I
probably wasn't even paying attention in the
class.
And just things like keeping
schedules for things has been helping.
(20:18):
Like, I'll do this at this time and this at
this time just to be able to stay on track.
That's great.
You know, a lot of times women and girls with
ADHD get misdiagnosed with anxiety,
right? And Zinzi was one of those people.
And, of course, I was diagnosed with anxiety,
too, and it probably was something else, or
maybe it's anxiety because of.
And so in Zinzi's case, it definitely-- her
anxiety came from not being able to organize
(20:40):
herself. So the fact that she is now
focusing on organizing herself
lowers that anxiety.
And I used to say this over and over again to
my husband. I would say, "They diagnosed
her with anxiety, want to medicate her for
it, and they think that that's it," but the
reason why she-- and because she can't
organise herself. I used to say this over and
over again, but, food-wise, what are
(21:00):
some things? Again, it's always the mini
steps, because the goal is to--
as Zinzi said, as you said, Megan,
the goal is to create a healthy relationship
with food so that she
can eventually get there.
It's not one day to the next.
We're not focusing on-- and this is our
disclaimer in our podcast We're not here to
give medical advice or nutritional advice.
We're not focusing on weight loss,
(21:22):
especially at this age with her and
her large group of girlfriends.
Large group. The
concern here-- The other mothers have reached
out to me because the concern here is body
image. So we're going to be talking about
this, I think, at some point in the podcast a
lot more than we have.
We cannot focus on weight loss at this point.
That cannot be our focus because we know,
(21:44):
Megan, right? It's not about weight loss,
it's about lifestyle.
And at this point, the focus
has to be on having a healthy
relationship with food and really
just understanding how certain
things-- so Zinzi and I are at that point
where we've started to talk about addictions
and a lot of other things.
(22:05):
And so it's this idea that there are certain
things that people with an addictive
personality like this should just never go
near, and understanding this early on
is important.
We know this, right?
In our field, our community, we know that
junk food, processed food, anything
outside of real food is going to have--
and that's the textbook that I've actually
received to read.
It actually makes the connection between
(22:27):
food addiction and addiction to other things,
and why junk food is so addictive.
Exactly what Zinzi was saying - you cannot
be expected to have any control over
these things. And we talk about this a ton
in our community, but, out there, people
maybe don't have that knowledge.
And so Zinzi understands that, if she
chooses to have it (and she does choose to
(22:48):
have it sometimes, and many times,
especially at her age and with her friends),
she is not expecting herself to have
control over junk food because she knows
what it's going to lead to.
And it's not her fault, it's that
thing's fault, and, eventually, she'll be
at a point where she will make the choice
like I do personally.
(23:09):
She asks me, "How do you not eat it?"
Because, if I eat it, I cannot stop.
And eventually she will have that power.
And that's what we're working toward.
So there's a lot of little things.
Zinzi can probably think of them more than
me, but there's a lot of little things that
we are doing that I think are going
to have a long-term impact.
There's so much education that you're both
(23:30):
doing, and I think that's so powerful.
You know, I've wanted to be a mom for, like,
ever, as Nadia knows.
Nadia has been a big pillar in my own
journey into motherhood.
Really, the more that I've learned, the more
scared I was for this future kid that I was
going to have, especially knowing when we
were moving from Canada to the United States,
(23:51):
because, while Canada is not that much
better, there are still some food-safety
things that just don't exist [in the US].
And very recently, Red Dye
No. 3, got banned.
35 years too late here in the United
States when it's been banned in Canada since
like the 90s, or 80s, or something
like that. So there is that added layer
of just like, oh my goodness.
(24:12):
And so, you know, I've always (any time Nadia
has talked about this) just kind of listened
and listened. [laughs] You know, what's she
doing? How is she navigating it?
And then there's someone else in the
functional health space, and he homeschools
his twin boys. And it's always been sort of a
different parenting approach than I've
usually seen. And I was watching this Q&A
(I think his kids were like ten at the time),
(24:34):
and they were like, "How do you control food
when they go to these social things?" Because
they're homeschooled, they make such an
effort with socialization.
So they're part of all these clubs, all these
groups. And so there's just even more
exposure to foods because communities get
together over food.
And he's like, "Listen, at home,
we celebrate cooking together, we celebrate
(24:54):
growing food together, we celebrate
education.
My kids know what gluten can do
to them. We talk about it.
You know, I don't fearmonger, but we talk
about the science of it so they understand,"
because he's like, "I have to release them
into the world, right?
They have to go. They have to socialize.
They have to have these playdates.
So they have whatever knowledge a
(25:16):
ten-year-old can accumulate on, say,
something like gluten," which was what the
question was kind of framed around, "And then
it's up to them to make the decision.
And if they don't feel good afterwards, we
talk about that food and how that food can
lead to it.
And then you just kind of hope they build up
this knowledge base over time.".
That stuck with me, everything you've shared
just stuck with me.
(25:37):
You and I interviewed Ben Bikman a thousand
years ago about Halloween
and his different strategies
for his kids at Halloween.
And so, you know, it's kind of what I'm
trying to do.
I'm in a different situation.
My lifestyle has radically changed by
having a kid.
So, you know, he's 14 months and he has
a chef tower, and he has got his own cutting
(25:59):
board, and his own like choppy thing,
and we try to involve him in the food
process, even though it's disastrous,
absolutely.
And you know, just trying because,
eventually-- I mean, we're here.
This is where he's going to grow up and
it's such a complicated landscape.
And like you said, there's just-- everyone
is quick to throw labels and not really
(26:19):
investigate, not really try to use
the knowledge that they're given to create
these incredible super powers that all these
incredible kids have.
Something else that you touched where I was
like, "Yes, we need to talk about this," is
women being falsely labeled with anxiety.
Nowadays, we're seeing so many--
we're seeing more young girls be identified
(26:40):
with ADHD, of course, nowadays, especially
here in the United States or in California
where I am, but also this huge anxiety,
anxiety, anxiety label.
Your comments about the clients that we've
helped who all really powerful,
incredible women.
Perfectionism is their biggest
hurdle because they have crushed it
in their professional lives and in
(27:01):
many aspects of their personal lives, and
then they just keep tripping over themselves
with this whole perfectionism with their diet
and nutrition.
And then there is a lot of labeling of
anxiety around all of it
when there's a huge ADHD component
of it that just never got diagnosed.
I was 21 years old and I had
(27:22):
just gotten 105% on an ecology
exam. Ecology was a mandatory course for
my degree program.
It was not something I actually-- now I'm
very interested in it, but, at 20 something,
I was not interested in it.
My professor called me in because the class
average was 38.
So I got 100% on the exam plus
the bonus question.
And she was like, "You sit there every class
(27:43):
and you doodle and you don't listen to a damn
word that I say.
And if I were to call on you, you'd know
nothing, but here you are.
And I know you didn't cheat because everybody
else in the class sucked [laughs], so you
had no one to cheat off of." And she was
like, "You have ADHD.
I'm going to refer you to the school
psychologist," or psychiatrist, I forget
who I saw, "For evaluation," but
(28:05):
she was like, "Don't forget, it's your
superpower." She was like, "You've been
figuring out, at least academically, how to
make it your superpower because of natural
resourcefulness, but, if you don't explore
this, it's going to crush you later in life,
in all aspects of your life."
And it was actually some of the therapy that
I then went through that, when I got
diagnosed with metabolic health, I thought,
(28:26):
"Okay, I'm not going to start this
perfectionism.
I am going to relax.
I'm going to chill if I go off track.
I'm not going to beat myself up for it.
I'm going to take this a radically different
approach than I would with anything else
in my life." And that's really kind
of what saved me in the end and got me from
a metabolically-bad place to a very good
place.
So the work you two are doing is
(28:49):
absolutely incredible, and I was so,
so excited when I saw that you were going
to do this. We're so excited to keep
promoting it here and making sure everybody--
because I think, regardless of your age,
there's something that you can get out of
this, because it does-- we see it, right,
Nadia, in 70-year-olds, 80-year-olds, who
come to work with us at The Fasting Method
(29:09):
- these exact same patterns - but they didn't
have a mom with your background, they didn't
live in this day and age where technology--
like, there is better communication.
Social media is a blessing and a curse,
right, in so many respects.
So it's just awesome.
What are your top-three pieces
of advice to give to people out
there right now who suspect
(29:30):
that they might be going through a journey
similar to Zinzi's or have a daughter
or granddaughter going through it as well?
Well, first of all, everything that you just
said-- you know, you were talking about your
professor. It's all these women that maybe
they didn't have somebody there for
them, but they're now being the shining
light. And for me, it's been all these women
(like I talk about in the Community,
(29:51):
including yourself), you know, we've sort
of helped each other so much because
we've gone through so many things that we
didn't have other people to guide us through,
right? So we helped each other.
And then whatever I would learn, I would
share with you and vice versa.
And so it's all of these amazing
women, like you said, these 70, 80-year-old
women that come into our community and
they have so much wisdom.
(30:13):
And if it weren't for that, I definitely
wouldn't be doing this.
And so, again, it's passing that forward,
you know, pass this on, pass the information
on to people. People need this information.
But three pieces of advice.
For sure, know that neurodivergence
and ADHD looks very different in
women and girls than it does in boys, okay?
(30:35):
So people would look at Zinzi-- even to this
day, if I mention it, they'd be like,
"Zinzi? No!" because they'd see
this amazing girl, right?
And so we have this preconceived notion
of what ADHD and what neurodivergence
looks like, and that is not what it looks
like. It looks like a Megan, it looks like a
Zinzi. It is these very accomplished,
(30:55):
very put-together, very
smart-- there's just a lot going on in here,
right? And so understand that.
And, again, it is a superpower and it works,
but there might be something that is not
working for you. That might
be extremely-- as your
professor said to you.
And so you need to be aware of that.
And in Zinzi's case, and many
(31:17):
of the people listening to us right now,
because they're in this community, they have
metabolic syndrome, it might be the food.
It might be the food addiction, which,
again-- it's not your fault for a number of
reasons, but it certainly is not
your fault that-- people say to me, you know,
"Why is that me and my sister are so
different?" Zinzi has a sister.
Her sister-- they're very similar physically.
(31:38):
It's not the body, it's not the
[unintelligible], but it's the way that they
react to food, right?
The way that Zinzi is very different
in the way-- and I'm not talking about
whether one does TRE.
It's not that way of eating, it's
really just her reaction to food.
And we understand that that has to do with
ADHD. It does have to do with the
impulsivity, but it also has to do with the
(31:59):
dopamine pathway, this idea
that they need this kick over and over again.
You're constantly looking for that next
phase, that next kick.
And you can see how dangerous that is in life
in general.
So understanding that- I think Zinzi will--
just like a lot of people in our community,
will have to understand-- And Terri talks
about this, right? Are we abstainers--
Are you a moderator or an abstain?
(32:21):
Can you be a moderator if you have ADHD?
ADHD people are not moderating anything.
So I think that that
would be, for sure, my first-- is just
recognize that ADHD
is different in women.
Women with ADHD do not look like hyperactive
little boys. That is not what women-- their
hyperactivity is in their brain, is in their
(32:43):
mind, and, often, they can
juggle all those things, they can do all
these things, they do look like these super
women until one of those balls drops.
So recognize that in yourself.
Anything else?
Three pieces of advice.
I think it's the 'no blame, no shame'.
That's a big one because that has to do
with-- all the most wonderful, most
(33:05):
important people in your life might not be at
a point yet where they can do that and want
to help you, or you may be the one trying
to help somebody in your family, but
blame and shame doesn't help.
It makes it much, much, much worse.
With Zinzi, it led to hiding, so that's what
we were working on more than anything.
Of course, I understand that she's going to
(33:25):
binge and have compulsive tendencies,
especially in certain foods, because she
definitely does not binge on real food.
In fact, she doesn't even want to go near
real food. She never has liked food.
She only likes junk food, right?
It's not that she likes it, she's addicted to
it. And there's a reason - she gets a huge
dopoamine hit from these foods,
right? We talk about dopamine in our
community all the time so people really
(33:47):
understand what this is like.
And so I think that these are
key things.
I don't know if you have anything to add?
I do but it's not really related to what you
were just talking about.
It's kind of more about image and
how people perceive you as, kind of what I
was saying at the start, of like the
judging-people thing.
So people that have eating disorders
(34:07):
or that are neurodivergent, there's obviously
lots of flaws, but like women who are saying
they're superpowers and pros.
Like, imagine, to me, a flaw
might be that I'm kind of crazy
and, like, don't act calm
around people, but, to other people--
like in my school musical, for example,
there's a phrase going around that's 'channel
(34:27):
your inner Zinzi'.
So instead of caging your inner Zinzi, so
putting it away, to channel your inner Zinzi.
So it's something to think-- like,
sometimes things are a lot bigger in your
head than they are in person.
Because, to me, if I'm being crazy or
something at school, like if
I lose my friends or something--
(34:48):
because sometimes when
the mood is not necessarily a very upbeat,
crazy mood, I just-- you know,
it's not very easy to read the room.
So it's the same thing with food, I guess, if
you understand what I'm saying.
So, yeah.
It's the diet. And so many of Terri's
teachings-- you know, learning the dial,
(35:09):
right, that's very hard for people with
ADHD. My husband was talking to her about
this, like learning how to read the room,
it's really hard for somebody with ADHD
to learn how to read the room.
And so this applies to many things, including
food. You can't regulate-- you can't
self-regulate emotions, right?
So, Zinzi-- you know, we-- Megan and I have
talked about this a ton because we're talking
about sleep and whatever-- Zinzi didn't sleep
(35:30):
until she was six.
And not to scare Megan, but the reason why
she didn't sleep until she was six is because
she couldn't self-regulate, so she couldn't
self-soothe.
Had I known all of this, how much easier--
if I had just understood, you know, she can
not sleep because she can't self-soothe.
That's why she nurses
the way that she does, that's why she-- you
know, so many things.
(35:51):
And the same thing with food.
Why was she so picky?
Why did she-- sorry, it's really late here,
right? Megan and I have a 12-hour,
time-zone difference.
It's 12 hours, right, Megan?
Yeah.
So it's really early for Megan, it's really
late for us. It's not really late, it's just,
like-- yeah, for us, it's late.
We start early.
But anyhow, it's all of these things,
(36:12):
you know, recognizing these things in
yourself.
And so, I don't know, that was a lot more
than three wasn't it Megan? [laughter]
It's all fantastic.
I want to thank you both so much for joining
us today and sharing this.
Zinzi, you are incredible.
You're an incredible young woman.
You've helped me see things
about my own life, my own journey.
(36:33):
Even very recently, even in this
conversation, these little things have
been popping up and I start to understand
myself so much better all because
of you and your bravery in sharing
this and taking on the hard work.
You truly have many superpowers.
It's been a real privilege to watch you grow
up, albeit a little bit far away, since
(36:54):
we all kind of moved from Toronto,
but it's been really cool to see your
journey. And you and your mom,
your family, you guys are doing such an
incredible job, and I know that you are just
going to fill the world with all of your
superpowers in the most beautiful ways.
So thank you both so much for being here
today. Nadia, you know I love you.
She's my sister [laughs]
(37:16):
and I'm going to drag her back more often
now. But, Nadia, the podcast
- Forbidden. Check it out.
Dr. Nadia's website d o c
t o r nadia.com.
You'll find all the links.
She has an incredible social media, too.
So make sure you're following Nadia on
Facebook and Instagram as well.
You'll be able to see all of their antics,
(37:38):
what they're up to [laughs], and
we look forward to having you back on the
podcast. Thanks, ladies.
Thank you.
Thank you, Megan. We really, really owe you
for this. We really wanted a chance to
let the Community know that this is what
we've been doing. You know, I sort of left
things so abruptly in July, and it's
such a great opportunity to come back and
just tell everybody how we're doing.
(37:59):
Thank you. And, yes, I suspect
you're going to be seeing a lot more from me
[laughter] sooner rather than later.
We love you both.
Thank you again.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye, everybody.
Before we get started with today's episode,
I would like to quickly read you our podcast
disclaimer.
This podcast is for educational
purposes only, and it is
not a substitute for professional care
by a doctor or other qualified
medical professional.
You should always speak with your physician
(00:27):
or other healthcare professionals before
doing any fasting, changing
your diet in any way, taking or
adjusting any medications or supplements,
or adopting any treatment plan
for a health problem.
The use of any other products or
services purchased by you as a result
of this podcast does not create
(00:50):
a healthcare provider-patient
relationship between you and
any of the experts affiliated
with this podcast.
Any information and statements
regarding dietary supplements have not
been evaluated by the Food and Drug
Administration and are not intended
to diagnose, treat, cure,
(01:11):
or prevent any disease.
All right. And now we'll get started with
today's episode.
Hi everyone. It's Megan Ramos here with
another episode of The Fasting Method
podcast. It's actually been a minute since
I've recorded, but I'm super excited to hop
back into it today.
We have some very special guests.
(01:32):
I'd like to introduce these two incredible
ladies who have changed my life, and it's
such a pleasure to be part of their journey
as well. And it's also kind of a weird
introduction because she is usually
my co-host on these podcasts, but, today,
she's here as a guest.
It's been a minute.
We'd like to welcome Dr. Nadia and her
incredible daughter, Zinzi, to the show.
(01:53):
How are you doing today, ladies?
Hi, everyone.
I'm good. How about you, Zinzi? .
I'm good, thank you.
We just spent the last 20 minutes catching
up because Megan and I, whenever
we're together, it's-- yeah, but it's been a
minute.
It has been a minute. I mean, we've been so
privileged to work with friends, who
are like family, over the years,
(02:14):
and, as Nadia shared on a previous episode
of The Fasting Method podcast, she had a real
big move to Dubai and
just a lot of motherhood stuff to
focus on. So she's stepped away
from doing some Fasting Method stuff,
although I'm trying to reel her back in for a
few webinars this summer, or special
workshops this summer, rather, But, aside
(02:36):
from that, she started a really cool project
with her daughter, Zinzi, and they have a
really incredible story to tell.
So, Nadia, Zinzi, tell us what you've
been up to during this break, since we
last heard from Dr. Nadia.
I'm going to let Zinzi take over because she,
I think you'll-- when she starts talking,
she's great.
If I do all the talking, then
(02:58):
we're going to miss out, really.
So how about, Zinzi, you tell us what's our
life been like since August?
I'll start with this.
I recorded with, I think
it was Terri, right, in July.
And I told everybody in our community that,
after eight years, eight amazing years,
I needed to take some time for
my family and for myself, not just because we
were moving from Europe to Dubai, so
(03:21):
from Portugal, where we were, to Dubai.
But I did allude to, in that recording,
that there was some stuff going on in our
family. I was feeling very overwhelmed.
In the meantime, no surprise, no shocker
(I mean, it's going to be in the show notes)
that I started a podcast. It was sort of one
of these spur-of-the-moment things.
Plus, I had some experience with you, right?
You and I had been doing the TFM
(03:43):
podcast for a while.
And so, out of nowhere, Zinzi
and I were sitting in a car driving back from
one of her photoshoots for her dance (you
know, she does performing arts and whatnot),
and decided on the spot, "Hey,
let's start a podcast." And I think it was a
brilliant idea because it really did open
up the conversation between Zinzi and I.
(04:04):
During the very first episode of our podcast,
I said, "You know, some of you may know
that I took some time off work, and the
reason for it is sitting right here in front
of me, and that's my 14 year old daughter
(13 at a time), Zinzi, who
has an eating disorder." And that's how we
started our podcast.
And so I'll let Zinzi tell
us a bit more what we've been up to.
(04:26):
Okay. Since October,
we've been recording almost every week
and we've just been sharing kind of what it's
been like with disordered eating and
binge eating.
We've done six episodes so far, and, in the
midst of that, discovered that-- well, we
sort of knew. I had some suspicions
that Zinzi was neurodivergent.
I think we both are, Zinzi and I, always
(04:48):
talking about her superpowers, right, because
neurodivergent people often have superpowers.
So we
went down that rabbit hole and then
Zinzi got diagnosed with ADHD.
So our podcast has really been talking about
the relationship between disordered
eating and-- recently, in the
neurodivergents, the ADHD-- and why
(05:10):
it is that women, particularly women and
girls, that have ADHD, are
3.6 times more likely to have an eating
disorder. And so the more we talk about
it, the more we get feedback from people
telling us, "Oh my gosh, that was me," you
know, "This is me," "That sounds like me."
And we have full-grown women sending
us messages saying how
much they've learned from a 13, 14-year-old
(05:32):
now. And so this is what really is
getting us to continue.
And from the beginning, we continue with this
motto of 'no blame, no shame' because I think
that was a big thing that was holding us
back. It was the guilt that I felt.
I wouldn't tell people about it, I wouldn't
share-- Zinzi's had some form of disordered
eating since she was six months old.
And so it was-- the guilt of it
(05:53):
was huge. And then it was really, you
know, the influence of-- luckily, the
tide is sort of-- things are changing
and more and more people are being so
open about their neurodivergence
or eating disorders.
And so it was in that conversation in the car
that Zinzi and I thought, "This is what we've
gotta do. We've got to talk about it openly."
Even within our family, it's made such a huge
(06:14):
difference. Older generations,
the way they look at Zinzi and I.
You know, the same people that maybe only a
few months ago were
criticizing us quite a bit, right (with the
best of intentions, I always say this),
they're the same people that are now able to
look at this and say, "Oh my gosh, you guys
are helping so many people.
This is so great.
You're doing the right thing." All of a
(06:36):
sudden, just us saying to
ourselves, "No blame, no shame,"
has had such an impact, even on the people
around us.
I think it's so incredibly brave.
I was really excited when I heard about your
podcast coming out.
It's called Forbidden, for anyone who's
listening today who wants to check it out.
Then you and I connected, Nadia, and I
(06:57):
thought, "We've got to bring this to people,"
because, when I first thought of it-- you
know, of course, this is her home.
She's always welcome on this podcast to talk
about anything she wants, but something
that Nadia (especially as the mom
of young, adolescent girls)
was constantly asked in our community is
how to help people's children,
grandchildren, nieces and nephews, especially
(07:19):
daughters, in this day and age with social
media and all this kind of stuff.
And it was like, okay, there are so many
parents, so many grandparents, aunts, uncles
who need to hear this, and need to learn
about it, and educate themselves because
they're begging for it in our community
and in our coaching program.
I've been following along for a lot
(07:40):
of the journey so far.
It hasn't been perfect because, as I shared,
my son doesn't sleep and neither do I,
but it's just been really interesting for me,
as an adult.
And I started to think how this could be so
interesting for other women in our community,
of all ages, because I truly believe,
in order to understand where you are and
where you need to go, you need to understand
where you came from.
(08:01):
So hearing Zinzi talk, Zinzi and you
sharing your story, and being so open
and vulnerable with everybody, you
know, even a 40-year-old woman like me is
saying, "Okay, I had anorexia
nervosa at 14." I was actually
hospitalized at the hospital for sick
children very briefly for it, and
then I was in outpatient therapy for like
(08:22):
a year dealing with it.
And then, at 20, I was finally diagnosed
with ADHD because, especially
back then, girls did not get diagnosed,
like, it wasn't even thought to be something
a girl could have.
And then when I was recently pregnant (well,
it's not that recent, my kids almost
a year and a half now), we had a doula,
and she was going through some stuff with me,
(08:43):
and she was like, "You're a highly-sensitive
person." And I was just
like, "Well, I'm just empathetic."
And then she was like, "No, you're
neurodivergent." And I was
like, "What are you talking about?
I'm one of these functional-health people.
I'm a bit of a guru.
I would know if I'm this or that." And then
she just kind of rolled her eyes at me and
(09:05):
was like, "All right, let's just proceed with
your birthing plan." And then I started
looking into it and I was like, "Oh my gosh,
these patterns." I'm kind of like you,
Zinzi, I suspect, like, from really early
on I had-- I've always had weird
eating things, for as long as I can remember.
And my mom will always tell me too,
since a baby, these patterns.
(09:26):
So it's been so eye opening for me to sort
of understand how I got here.
Now, obviously, I'm in a pretty good health
place and have a good relationship with food
now, but I think it's so important
to have this understanding and even reflect
this far into my journey.
So I want to hear sort of what are the big
messages that you really want to get
(09:47):
out there, really want people to just start
understanding about these
relationships, how they tie in with eating
addictions.
I think one that's very important,
not just eating disorders or ADHD
or anything, is that people have things that
they can't control.
People need to understand that and know that
because, like I said in one of the episodes
(10:08):
that we've recorded, you can't just judge
someone not knowing what's really going on.
It's so important.
This is so true. The neurodivergence thing,
which, again, superpowers, right?
The neurodivergent people are the
entrepreneurs.
I think we talk about [unintelligible] at
some point, Zinzi and I, because now we're
always trying to diagnose people, right?
[laughter] And so it's so interesting.
(10:29):
I follow a lot of these experts,
these doctors, that talk about
why ADHD (it's a genetic trait)
has sort of not been wiped out, and
it's because these were the hunter-gatherers,
these were the people that protected their
communities, these were the people that had
an immense amount of energy to actually do
the work. You know, maybe our soldiers.
(10:50):
You know, these are the people that
stand out.
And so, as they say, ADHD
and neurodivergence really works for people
until it doesn't.
And then it's these things, you know, like
binge eating.
Obviously, this is not working because, up
until now, it was totally working for her.
And we hear a lot about women, like you were
saying, that don't get diagnosed until much
(11:11):
later, usually until they have kids.
Because up until then, they can balance all
the balls, they can juggle all the balls.
The minute that they have a kid-- and I was
like that. You know, I wonder about my own--
I definitely wouldn't say-- and I think you
know me well enough. I definitely wouldn't
say that I am typical, neurotypical.
So, anyway, we're all on the spectrum, no
doubt about it, but what Zinzi just said is
(11:33):
that, had we understood this, especially
with her eating journey, it
would have been so much better because,
instead of blaming her and spending so
much time-- and I talked about this.
This is one of the messages, like you said,
you know, what would I-- it's this people
have no idea how stressful being
around a dinner table can be for a family
(11:54):
of people with eating disorders,
how stressful.
How much-- not just the criticism that's
there, but on both sides,
and then everyone else around because
everyone has an opinion.
And I think that, if you come to the table
already armed with the information that we've
just recently found out, it makes
a big difference. It makes a huge difference.
(12:15):
You know, you deal with things totally
different. It brings down the stress a ton.
And you were saying, Megan, that you went
through all of this as a younger woman, and
now you have a great relationship with food.
And so will Zinzi.
She will have a great relationship with food.
No doubt about that.
And you both, ladies, both
of you are doing such hard work.
(12:35):
You know, you're digging in, learning
the information, and then information
enables us to take action, which is
a huge superpower.
So I know people who are listening have
two big focuses.
Nadia, you know where I'm going with this.
One, they want to know how do they get this
information?
How do they find out about
(12:55):
diagnoses?
Is it something that they have to do
on their own, kind of like a lot of their
metabolic health they're figuring out on
their own, or are there any resources
(aside from your podcast of course) that you
have found to be super helpful?
I know you go through a lot of this stuff in
your podcast, so everyone should 100% follow,
subscribe.
Wherever you are, you're going to learn so
(13:17):
much to help you and your family.
And then, two, what great actions have you
taken? What steps are you taking at home
to get from this place of, 'okay,
we're struggling' to 'now we're making
progress'. And, again, I know a lot of
this is in your podcast, too, but, if you
could share some snippets of each
of these information pathways with our
(13:39):
listeners, that would be fantastic.
Well, I wanted to say something that's
really-- I think this is the place to say it.
If it wasn't for this community, the TFM
Community, none of this would be happening.
I was telling Zinzi this today.
They were the first people that I talked to
openly and honestly about this in safety.
I felt so safe.
I didn't feel safe in my own world.
(14:00):
And so, if it wasn't for the TFM Community,
I would not have gotten to where we are
today, I wouldn't have taken the steps that I
have taken, and I wouldn't have even realized
most of this. It was that community,
particular individuals in that community,
that talked to me for the very first time
about my mom guilt and how
I needed to address that, and so many other
things. There are still people in the
(14:21):
Community that I still get amazing
messages from, to this day,
and I believe I will continue to.
I still feel like I'm part of that community,
even though I've taken some time away.
So first, I wanted to-- because I know a lot
of them are listening in-- that many
of them I had shared-- it was such a safe
place for me to come and to share, so
I owe them a ton.
(14:42):
And just sharing their stories-- I learned--
I always said this, right, even as a coach,
that I've learned a lot more from
our community and our clients than
I've ever taught them.
And I believe that to be true to this day.
So our podcast is on my YouTube
channel. It's doctornadia.com.
That's my website and YouTube.
(15:02):
So you can go to
d o c t o r n a d i a, spell out Dr. Nadia,
and that's my YouTube.
For now, it's a video podcast
because Zinzi likes to be on video.
She's a performer. We talk a ton about this.
This is one of her many superpowers, her
hyperfocus, which makes her extremely
dedicated. So you can get a lot in that,
(15:23):
but it really is step-by-step, and it has
been step-by-step with us.
I'm always maybe a step or two ahead of
Zinzi, but it's because I'm learning
and preparing before I
throw her in there.
In the six episodes that we have
recorded, in the show notes, I've shared
all the links, all the research.
So we've done a bit of everything.
(15:44):
Recently, somebody from the Community
recommended a book (it's actually a textbook)
that I cannot wait to receive, and I'll
be reading it and then of course sharing it.
At this point, Zinzi has a
psychiatrist.
She did have some counseling in Portugal,
but it wasn't focused on this and they were
so off the mark, unfortunately, like so
(16:05):
off. And I felt like I was
pretty sure of what was going on.
And so at this point, luckily for us,
you know, she's got a psychiatrist that deals
with her ADHD, she's medicated
for the ADHD. It has made a difference.
And I think this is what she was talking
about. You know, it's really important when
we are able to say to somebody, "Really, it's
not your fault. It's not that you don't know
(16:27):
what to do or how to do it,
but, really, if you ever-- so you were
asking, do people really have to sometimes
diagnose this in themselves?
But this is the grassroots movement that
we're used to, right, advocating for
yourself. And then finding the right experts.
There are a ton out there.
She's going to start seeing a counselor who
specializes in both ADHD and
(16:49):
eating disorders. Not a shocker considering
the immense link out there.
And so I would highly advise, especially
women-- again, it's very likely
that a woman may have ADHD
and never have been diagnosed because we mask
it. We are master hiders.
We spend so much of our energy, as women--
(17:09):
and I say 'we', not that I
have ADHD. I'm not sure that I do, but I
definitely think that there's some
neurodivergence, and that's worked in my
favor, right? I hyperfocused
on school. Zinzi is all about performing,
but, for me, it's all about how I always
want to show off my brains.
I want to exercise my brain, I want to learn
as much as I can, and share as much as I can.
(17:30):
And so, if there are women out there who feel
like-- and these are the women that I've
always worked with, you know, the CEOs, the
surgeons, the mothers of five
and eight kids that just can do
it all, but they would say to me, "Why is it
that I can do it all and I can't do this?
I cannot deal with food?"
And so I think that's key.
(17:50):
As far as kids and teenagers go,
my real concern is we don't get them properly
diagnosed.
They're going to be a lot more labelled in
life. People are very worried about labels,
but, if kids don't get properly diagnosed,
they're a lot more labeled, a lot more
criticized.
Then we don't know what to do either, so we
can't help them.
But there's a lot to this.
(18:11):
The food addiction that comes with this
could later on move on to other
substances. And so it's really important that
we understand this very early on.
And I'm very concerned about that from having
other experiences and seeing other people's
experiences. So we're learning from each
other really.
That's fantastic. It is hard work.
It is definitely hard work.
(18:32):
You're doing a lot of great things - seeking
the right experts, identifying when an
expert doesn't necessarily feel right, and
then pivoting to someone who does.
And then, because of your background, you're
able to say, "Okay, I don't think that
person's doing so well in serving
my kid.
This is kind of what I think's going on.
You know, let's explore this path with the
(18:54):
expert that's a little bit more niche in
this particular subject and
see what's going on there." So a lot of
expert supports.
Are there some strategies that you're
implementing at home as a family
to help Zinzi feel more comfortable
being Zinzi and just like thriving
in all of the amazing
(19:14):
Zinziness [laughs] that you are?
What are some little things that you're doing
at home (maybe it's just you, Zinzi) that
you're trying to focus on every day
to help you sort of crush this journey?
Because, like your mom said, you've got so
many superpowers.
So it's like saying, "Okay, I've got these
superpowers. They're not deficits, they're
superpowers. How am
I going to exploit these superpowers to be
(19:36):
a superhuman and incredible woman?"
Or are there some things that you're doing at
home or at school that you've found to
be really helpful?
At home, I think it's really just like the
little things that will make you go
far. For example, just normal
things like remembering to put an hour
of work in every single day of studying.
(19:57):
Also, at school, I've started using an online
calendar and reminders because, before, when
I had homework, I just physically couldn't
remember, and, by the day it was due,
I didn't even know we had it because I
probably wasn't even paying attention in the
class.
And just things like keeping
schedules for things has been helping.
(20:18):
Like, I'll do this at this time and this at
this time just to be able to stay on track.
That's great.
You know, a lot of times women and girls with
ADHD get misdiagnosed with anxiety,
right? And Zinzi was one of those people.
And, of course, I was diagnosed with anxiety,
too, and it probably was something else, or
maybe it's anxiety because of.
And so in Zinzi's case, it definitely-- her
anxiety came from not being able to organize
(20:40):
herself. So the fact that she is now
focusing on organizing herself
lowers that anxiety.
And I used to say this over and over again to
my husband. I would say, "They diagnosed
her with anxiety, want to medicate her for
it, and they think that that's it," but the
reason why she-- and because she can't
organise herself. I used to say this over and
over again, but, food-wise, what are
(21:00):
some things? Again, it's always the mini
steps, because the goal is to--
as Zinzi said, as you said, Megan,
the goal is to create a healthy relationship
with food so that she
can eventually get there.
It's not one day to the next.
We're not focusing on-- and this is our
disclaimer in our podcast We're not here to
give medical advice or nutritional advice.
We're not focusing on weight loss,
(21:22):
especially at this age with her and
her large group of girlfriends.
Large group. The
concern here-- The other mothers have reached
out to me because the concern here is body
image. So we're going to be talking about
this, I think, at some point in the podcast a
lot more than we have.
We cannot focus on weight loss at this point.
That cannot be our focus because we know,
(21:44):
Megan, right? It's not about weight loss,
it's about lifestyle.
And at this point, the focus
has to be on having a healthy
relationship with food and really
just understanding how certain
things-- so Zinzi and I are at that point
where we've started to talk about addictions
and a lot of other things.
(22:05):
And so it's this idea that there are certain
things that people with an addictive
personality like this should just never go
near, and understanding this early on
is important.
We know this, right?
In our field, our community, we know that
junk food, processed food, anything
outside of real food is going to have--
and that's the textbook that I've actually
received to read.
It actually makes the connection between
(22:27):
food addiction and addiction to other things,
and why junk food is so addictive.
Exactly what Zinzi was saying - you cannot
be expected to have any control over
these things. And we talk about this a ton
in our community, but, out there, people
maybe don't have that knowledge.
And so Zinzi understands that, if she
chooses to have it (and she does choose to
(22:48):
have it sometimes, and many times,
especially at her age and with her friends),
she is not expecting herself to have
control over junk food because she knows
what it's going to lead to.
And it's not her fault, it's that
thing's fault, and, eventually, she'll be
at a point where she will make the choice
like I do personally.
(23:09):
She asks me, "How do you not eat it?"
Because, if I eat it, I cannot stop.
And eventually she will have that power.
And that's what we're working toward.
So there's a lot of little things.
Zinzi can probably think of them more than
me, but there's a lot of little things that
we are doing that I think are going
to have a long-term impact.
There's so much education that you're both
(23:30):
doing, and I think that's so powerful.
You know, I've wanted to be a mom for, like,
ever, as Nadia knows.
Nadia has been a big pillar in my own
journey into motherhood.
Really, the more that I've learned, the more
scared I was for this future kid that I was
going to have, especially knowing when we
were moving from Canada to the United States,
(23:51):
because, while Canada is not that much
better, there are still some food-safety
things that just don't exist [in the US].
And very recently, Red Dye
No. 3, got banned.
35 years too late here in the United
States when it's been banned in Canada since
like the 90s, or 80s, or something
like that. So there is that added layer
of just like, oh my goodness.
(24:12):
And so, you know, I've always (any time Nadia
has talked about this) just kind of listened
and listened. [laughs] You know, what's she
doing? How is she navigating it?
And then there's someone else in the
functional health space, and he homeschools
his twin boys. And it's always been sort of a
different parenting approach than I've
usually seen. And I was watching this Q&A
(I think his kids were like ten at the time),
(24:34):
and they were like, "How do you control food
when they go to these social things?" Because
they're homeschooled, they make such an
effort with socialization.
So they're part of all these clubs, all these
groups. And so there's just even more
exposure to foods because communities get
together over food.
And he's like, "Listen, at home,
we celebrate cooking together, we celebrate
(24:54):
growing food together, we celebrate
education.
My kids know what gluten can do
to them. We talk about it.
You know, I don't fearmonger, but we talk
about the science of it so they understand,"
because he's like, "I have to release them
into the world, right?
They have to go. They have to socialize.
They have to have these playdates.
So they have whatever knowledge a
(25:16):
ten-year-old can accumulate on, say,
something like gluten," which was what the
question was kind of framed around, "And then
it's up to them to make the decision.
And if they don't feel good afterwards, we
talk about that food and how that food can
lead to it.
And then you just kind of hope they build up
this knowledge base over time.".
That stuck with me, everything you've shared
just stuck with me.
(25:37):
You and I interviewed Ben Bikman a thousand
years ago about Halloween
and his different strategies
for his kids at Halloween.
And so, you know, it's kind of what I'm
trying to do.
I'm in a different situation.
My lifestyle has radically changed by
having a kid.
So, you know, he's 14 months and he has
a chef tower, and he has got his own cutting
(25:59):
board, and his own like choppy thing,
and we try to involve him in the food
process, even though it's disastrous,
absolutely.
And you know, just trying because,
eventually-- I mean, we're here.
This is where he's going to grow up and
it's such a complicated landscape.
And like you said, there's just-- everyone
is quick to throw labels and not really
(26:19):
investigate, not really try to use
the knowledge that they're given to create
these incredible super powers that all these
incredible kids have.
Something else that you touched where I was
like, "Yes, we need to talk about this," is
women being falsely labeled with anxiety.
Nowadays, we're seeing so many--
we're seeing more young girls be identified
(26:40):
with ADHD, of course, nowadays, especially
here in the United States or in California
where I am, but also this huge anxiety,
anxiety, anxiety label.
Your comments about the clients that we've
helped who all really powerful,
incredible women.
Perfectionism is their biggest
hurdle because they have crushed it
in their professional lives and in
(27:01):
many aspects of their personal lives, and
then they just keep tripping over themselves
with this whole perfectionism with their diet
and nutrition.
And then there is a lot of labeling of
anxiety around all of it
when there's a huge ADHD component
of it that just never got diagnosed.
I was 21 years old and I had
(27:22):
just gotten 105% on an ecology
exam. Ecology was a mandatory course for
my degree program.
It was not something I actually-- now I'm
very interested in it, but, at 20 something,
I was not interested in it.
My professor called me in because the class
average was 38.
So I got 100% on the exam plus
the bonus question.
And she was like, "You sit there every class
(27:43):
and you doodle and you don't listen to a damn
word that I say.
And if I were to call on you, you'd know
nothing, but here you are.
And I know you didn't cheat because everybody
else in the class sucked [laughs], so you
had no one to cheat off of." And she was
like, "You have ADHD.
I'm going to refer you to the school
psychologist," or psychiatrist, I forget
who I saw, "For evaluation," but
(28:05):
she was like, "Don't forget, it's your
superpower." She was like, "You've been
figuring out, at least academically, how to
make it your superpower because of natural
resourcefulness, but, if you don't explore
this, it's going to crush you later in life,
in all aspects of your life."
And it was actually some of the therapy that
I then went through that, when I got
diagnosed with metabolic health, I thought,
(28:26):
"Okay, I'm not going to start this
perfectionism.
I am going to relax.
I'm going to chill if I go off track.
I'm not going to beat myself up for it.
I'm going to take this a radically different
approach than I would with anything else
in my life." And that's really kind
of what saved me in the end and got me from
a metabolically-bad place to a very good
place.
So the work you two are doing is
(28:49):
absolutely incredible, and I was so,
so excited when I saw that you were going
to do this. We're so excited to keep
promoting it here and making sure everybody--
because I think, regardless of your age,
there's something that you can get out of
this, because it does-- we see it, right,
Nadia, in 70-year-olds, 80-year-olds, who
come to work with us at The Fasting Method
(29:09):
- these exact same patterns - but they didn't
have a mom with your background, they didn't
live in this day and age where technology--
like, there is better communication.
Social media is a blessing and a curse,
right, in so many respects.
So it's just awesome.
What are your top-three pieces
of advice to give to people out
there right now who suspect
(29:30):
that they might be going through a journey
similar to Zinzi's or have a daughter
or granddaughter going through it as well?
Well, first of all, everything that you just
said-- you know, you were talking about your
professor. It's all these women that maybe
they didn't have somebody there for
them, but they're now being the shining
light. And for me, it's been all these women
(like I talk about in the Community,
(29:51):
including yourself), you know, we've sort
of helped each other so much because
we've gone through so many things that we
didn't have other people to guide us through,
right? So we helped each other.
And then whatever I would learn, I would
share with you and vice versa.
And so it's all of these amazing
women, like you said, these 70, 80-year-old
women that come into our community and
they have so much wisdom.
(30:13):
And if it weren't for that, I definitely
wouldn't be doing this.
And so, again, it's passing that forward,
you know, pass this on, pass the information
on to people. People need this information.
But three pieces of advice.
For sure, know that neurodivergence
and ADHD looks very different in
women and girls than it does in boys, okay?
(30:35):
So people would look at Zinzi-- even to this
day, if I mention it, they'd be like,
"Zinzi? No!" because they'd see
this amazing girl, right?
And so we have this preconceived notion
of what ADHD and what neurodivergence
looks like, and that is not what it looks
like. It looks like a Megan, it looks like a
Zinzi. It is these very accomplished,
(30:55):
very put-together, very
smart-- there's just a lot going on in here,
right? And so understand that.
And, again, it is a superpower and it works,
but there might be something that is not
working for you. That might
be extremely-- as your
professor said to you.
And so you need to be aware of that.
And in Zinzi's case, and many
(31:17):
of the people listening to us right now,
because they're in this community, they have
metabolic syndrome, it might be the food.
It might be the food addiction, which,
again-- it's not your fault for a number of
reasons, but it certainly is not
your fault that-- people say to me, you know,
"Why is that me and my sister are so
different?" Zinzi has a sister.
Her sister-- they're very similar physically.
(31:38):
It's not the body, it's not the
[unintelligible], but it's the way that they
react to food, right?
The way that Zinzi is very different
in the way-- and I'm not talking about
whether one does TRE.
It's not that way of eating, it's
really just her reaction to food.
And we understand that that has to do with
ADHD. It does have to do with the
impulsivity, but it also has to do with the
(31:59):
dopamine pathway, this idea
that they need this kick over and over again.
You're constantly looking for that next
phase, that next kick.
And you can see how dangerous that is in life
in general.
So understanding that- I think Zinzi will--
just like a lot of people in our community,
will have to understand-- And Terri talks
about this, right? Are we abstainers--
Are you a moderator or an abstain?
(32:21):
Can you be a moderator if you have ADHD?
ADHD people are not moderating anything.
So I think that that
would be, for sure, my first-- is just
recognize that ADHD
is different in women.
Women with ADHD do not look like hyperactive
little boys. That is not what women-- their
hyperactivity is in their brain, is in their
(32:43):
mind, and, often, they can
juggle all those things, they can do all
these things, they do look like these super
women until one of those balls drops.
So recognize that in yourself.
Anything else?
Three pieces of advice.
I think it's the 'no blame, no shame'.
That's a big one because that has to do
with-- all the most wonderful, most
(33:05):
important people in your life might not be at
a point yet where they can do that and want
to help you, or you may be the one trying
to help somebody in your family, but
blame and shame doesn't help.
It makes it much, much, much worse.
With Zinzi, it led to hiding, so that's what
we were working on more than anything.
Of course, I understand that she's going to
(33:25):
binge and have compulsive tendencies,
especially in certain foods, because she
definitely does not binge on real food.
In fact, she doesn't even want to go near
real food. She never has liked food.
She only likes junk food, right?
It's not that she likes it, she's addicted to
it. And there's a reason - she gets a huge
dopoamine hit from these foods,
right? We talk about dopamine in our
community all the time so people really
(33:47):
understand what this is like.
And so I think that these are
key things.
I don't know if you have anything to add?
I do but it's not really related to what you
were just talking about.
It's kind of more about image and
how people perceive you as, kind of what I
was saying at the start, of like the
judging-people thing.
So people that have eating disorders
(34:07):
or that are neurodivergent, there's obviously
lots of flaws, but like women who are saying
they're superpowers and pros.
Like, imagine, to me, a flaw
might be that I'm kind of crazy
and, like, don't act calm
around people, but, to other people--
like in my school musical, for example,
there's a phrase going around that's 'channel
(34:27):
your inner Zinzi'.
So instead of caging your inner Zinzi, so
putting it away, to channel your inner Zinzi.
So it's something to think-- like,
sometimes things are a lot bigger in your
head than they are in person.
Because, to me, if I'm being crazy or
something at school, like if
I lose my friends or something--
(34:48):
because sometimes when
the mood is not necessarily a very upbeat,
crazy mood, I just-- you know,
it's not very easy to read the room.
So it's the same thing with food, I guess, if
you understand what I'm saying.
So, yeah.
It's the diet. And so many of Terri's
teachings-- you know, learning the dial,
(35:09):
right, that's very hard for people with
ADHD. My husband was talking to her about
this, like learning how to read the room,
it's really hard for somebody with ADHD
to learn how to read the room.
And so this applies to many things, including
food. You can't regulate-- you can't
self-regulate emotions, right?
So, Zinzi-- you know, we-- Megan and I have
talked about this a ton because we're talking
about sleep and whatever-- Zinzi didn't sleep
(35:30):
until she was six.
And not to scare Megan, but the reason why
she didn't sleep until she was six is because
she couldn't self-regulate, so she couldn't
self-soothe.
Had I known all of this, how much easier--
if I had just understood, you know, she can
not sleep because she can't self-soothe.
That's why she nurses
the way that she does, that's why she-- you
know, so many things.
(35:51):
And the same thing with food.
Why was she so picky?
Why did she-- sorry, it's really late here,
right? Megan and I have a 12-hour,
time-zone difference.
It's 12 hours, right, Megan?
Yeah.
So it's really early for Megan, it's really
late for us. It's not really late, it's just,
like-- yeah, for us, it's late.
We start early.
But anyhow, it's all of these things,
(36:12):
you know, recognizing these things in
yourself.
And so, I don't know, that was a lot more
than three wasn't it Megan? [laughter]
It's all fantastic.
I want to thank you both so much for joining
us today and sharing this.
Zinzi, you are incredible.
You're an incredible young woman.
You've helped me see things
about my own life, my own journey.
(36:33):
Even very recently, even in this
conversation, these little things have
been popping up and I start to understand
myself so much better all because
of you and your bravery in sharing
this and taking on the hard work.
You truly have many superpowers.
It's been a real privilege to watch you grow
up, albeit a little bit far away, since
(36:54):
we all kind of moved from Toronto,
but it's been really cool to see your
journey. And you and your mom,
your family, you guys are doing such an
incredible job, and I know that you are just
going to fill the world with all of your
superpowers in the most beautiful ways.
So thank you both so much for being here
today. Nadia, you know I love you.
She's my sister [laughs]
(37:16):
and I'm going to drag her back more often
now. But, Nadia, the podcast
- Forbidden. Check it out.
Dr. Nadia's website d o c
t o r nadia.com.
You'll find all the links.
She has an incredible social media, too.
So make sure you're following Nadia on
Facebook and Instagram as well.
You'll be able to see all of their antics,
(37:38):
what they're up to [laughs], and
we look forward to having you back on the
podcast. Thanks, ladies.
Thank you.
Thank you, Megan. We really, really owe you
for this. We really wanted a chance to
let the Community know that this is what
we've been doing. You know, I sort of left
things so abruptly in July, and it's
such a great opportunity to come back and
just tell everybody how we're doing.
(37:59):
Thank you. And, yes, I suspect
you're going to be seeing a lot more from me
[laughter] sooner rather than later.
We love you both.
Thank you again.
Thank you.
Bye.
Bye, everybody.
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