#12WeeksToPeak #PersonalDevelopment #SelfImprovement #GrowthMindset #LifeLessons
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#12WeeksToPeak #SalesTraining #GoalSetting #PersonalDevelopment #LifeAdvice #GrowthMindset
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey, welcome to the 718th episode, the sales podcast.
I'm with Shaffer. The sales was for your host
today we have Mike Pritchett. He founded a company, big
company, 32 sales and marketing people on the team, 150 plus
staff. And after eight years it it got
to him. He sold it.
He hung out for a bit and did not like being retired and it's
(00:23):
starting something new. So we get into the lessons
learned of growing a company, selling a company, finding a new
calling and how to grow in today's crazy hectic world.
We get into outbound calling, inbound calling, e-mail AI, and
he's got a lot of lessons learned.
So you are you're in for a treat.
(00:44):
OK. And this episode towards again,
he talked about how he he kind of dabbled in coaching and
consulting and he said it wasn'this jam.
You know, he likes building stuff, running teams, and I find
that interesting. I like coaching and consulting
and I'd rather not run teams along those lines, right?
That's why I have my inner circle I'll link to.
(01:05):
That's why I have a new offeringwith the 12 weeks to peak.
Call it the VIP. And that's for one-on-one help,
daily help, daily accountabilityfor 12 weeks.
Check that out vip.twelveweekstopeak.com.
I'll link to that in the show notes.
But if you join that, you get access to the inner circle for a
(01:25):
year and you can renew the 12 weeks to peak and and you can
renew annually in the inner circle at half price.
That's a little a little perk I'm throwing in there.
And same thing with the inner circle.
If you join for a year, you cannot renew a half off.
So avail yourself of that right.If you're not sure if it's
(01:45):
right, There's a link on those pages to my calendar and we can
talk about it and see how I might be able to help, You know,
look around the Internet. There's no, there's no one star
reviews on me. Strong arming, belittling, hard
closing, pressuring people into anything.
It's not my style. I've been in sales since 1997
(02:08):
and put food on the table for a family of nine and two crazy
dogs because I just do things right and I teach you how to do
it right. OK.
So avail yourself of that, right?
Hop over to those and let me seehow I can help you.
We can work together. And after you do that, come back
and listen to this episode with MM Pritchett sold the big
(02:29):
company, starting the new company from Australia, London.
A man, a man of many homes, manytalents.
Welcome to the sales podcast. How the heck are you?
Thank you was I am very well. I'm very well indeed.
Good to be here. I noticed something, I think
it's an Aussie thing. That's how I know you're Aussie.
(02:49):
It's because I'm y'all call me Wes.
Are are s s ZS in in Aussie land?
Did I go for Wes? It's a yeah.
Fair. Fair.
They are. No.
Yes. I know I'm fine with it.
Wes, fair enough, Fair enough. Well, you know, if you come down
to. Australians like Canadians out
(03:11):
and about in house. Yeah, and Australians it's, it's
also the the DS in things like water instead of water, you
know, And now that I've, I've moved to London, 1 needs to up
their game on pronunciation and it's water, not water.
So it's. Oh yeah.
Yeah. Do you have to like, raise your
chin when you say that? Absolutely.
(03:32):
I just put a couple of plums in my mouth and off we go.
Do they drink tea in Australia or do you all say like stick it
up your butt and like drink fosters?
We well, we certainly don't drink Fosters.
That's one thing I can guarantee.
No Aussie. In.
Their right mind. Well, we learned plenty of beer,
but no Fosters. I know it's like Budweiser, it's
(03:53):
like it's well, popular in a popular ride, but like I can't
remember ever ordering a Budweiser on purpose.
Like if you hand me one I'll drink it.
Like I don't order it. It's funny, actually, Speaking
of, of sales and marketing during the 2000 Olympics, I, I
just thought, what on earth is this?
Every billboard in Sydney was packed with Foster's ads,
(04:14):
whereas Australian as Foster's and all this sort of stuff.
And every Australian just said I've never once seen this
advertised here. And then because they don't
advertise it in Australia, they don't bother.
We don't drink it, they just advertise it to the rest of the
world as the Australian drink. It's, you know, it's so many
things like Corona isn't like the best beer in Mexico, but
it's marketed, you know, and like watch, watch purists will
(04:35):
say, I don't own a Rolex, but it's the best marketed, you
know, so, so, you know, maybe wecan talk about that.
Do you need you need a great product to win in sales?
I guess you don't. No, you just got to win in
sales, right? You got to win in sales and
market marketing helps, obviously people buy some
people. And if you've got the best, best
(04:57):
story, you can sell it. Right.
So you, you were telling me before we hit record, I mean,
you'd built up a business. What'd you say?
You had 32 sales people. Yeah, we had 32 in sales and
marketing combined. We we had 150 in the team.
All up, we were in seven countries, a whole bunch of time
zones and a whole bunch of headaches for me.
(05:18):
I hear that a lot people dream they're going to make it big,
and then I thought to people like I want to make it small.
And it's interesting on that same note with funding, right,
you speak to people that go, I just want to get funding, I just
want to get funding. And then they get funding and
they made a a founder the bootstrapped and they go, well,
at least you own it, right? Yeah.
(05:39):
So what? We're going to get into what
you're doing now in a minute. But what what did you not like
about running a big team? Because I mean, a lot of people
listening to this are entrepreneurs.
Maybe they're part of a big team.
I'm going to do my own, you know.
And now here you are making a huge shift.
I mean, you were the CEO and founder, right?
(06:01):
Yeah. So what?
What role will be in charge? You got 150 people.
I'm the boss. Yeah, that does get a stage
where you're not you're not in the grit anymore.
You know, I think as a as a CEO founder that's or founder, ditch
the CEO part. If you're a founder in there
getting things done, that spark of the startup dream and the
(06:21):
excitement of every little bit counts and every little move
makes a big shift. And then, you know, after a
while you go, OK, well, revenuesgoing up, things are flat.
And I think, let's be honest, most founders then just, you
know, get the hand grenade and throw it in there to cause drama
because we all live and die by the the adrenaline.
And that's something that I did as well and cause all sorts of
challenges in my own business. When I look back at it now, at
(06:44):
the time, they seem like great ideas.
The reality is I think the the spark and the energy of small
start up and building is a is a lot more exciting than you know,
hey, do we hire another person in the HR team to look after the
the team that look after the team that look after the people
that may eventually be the ones doing the hustling?
(07:05):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that because it's, I think I'm more
in the, in the startup mindset, you know, hungry.
My, my son turned my wife and meonto this HBO series called The
Pit, you know, and it's, it's about AER doctors and, and it
(07:27):
was 15 shows and it was literally 15 hours.
So it was like starting their shift.
And of course there's an incident.
So they, they work overtime. So it was 15, a 15 hour shift in
an ER in a, in a super chaotic ER.
And I'm watching that like a friend of mine is a radiologist.
And so I'm text, we text all thetime.
(07:48):
And I'm, I'm busting his balls. You know, I'm like, look at you
just lounging around. Go in, look at some pictures, go
home. He's like, yes, I love it that
way. And I'm like, I think I'd be an
ER doc. It's like, yeah, let's go, go,
go shifts over. I'm going home.
Don't call me, you know I'll be back when my shifts on.
(08:10):
And, and there's a level of thatwith with startup life that it
is just pure energy and rush. When it's on, it's on and that's
exciting. When you win a client, there's
that excitement and that buzz and that and nothing beats that
adrenaline rush of got a massiveclient.
Big win, celebrate it. Let's go after the next.
Once you've got spreadsheets in front of you and you're working
(08:31):
to targets that are set for, youknow, at where they are for one
reason or another, and then you've got to live up to them
and you've got other people thatyou working to and the board
that you promised XYZ. It's a bit of a different beast.
And I think any founder that's taken on, you know, large
amounts of money as well, like Ipretty much bootstrapped my last
company. It wasn't well funded.
So that's fine. But if you're in that VC freight
(08:54):
train, you're effectively just chasing the next, you know, exit
for them or the next valuation. Yeah.
So, so you sold that what, two years ago now?
Two years ago this month. Yeah, yeah, two years ago.
So it's. Yeah.
It's good to be out and it's good to be out and moving on to
the next thing. Had had the obligatory time off.
(09:16):
Sit on the beach, stare at your navel, you know, start selling
beach chairs if you sit on the beach for too long.
So it's, it was on the what, what could we do next?
And for me, you know, I've, I'vehad a, a bunch of ideas and
concepts that have always been rattling around my head.
But AI voice for me, you know, I'm into podcasting and that
scene and, and the AI voice was interesting to me, but I sat
(09:39):
there and I go, oh, it's a gimmick.
It's a gimmick. You know, I know who's going to
listen to an AI podcast. And then I started to look at
the voices and think they're getting pretty realistic.
What what is here that we can actually do that's meaningful,
right. And then once we got to the
conversational stage, I went, OK, So what can we do here
(09:59):
that's meaningful? And, you know, I don't think the
meaningful side of that is goingcold calling the world with
another bloody bot. There's got to be some, some
purpose to what this can do. And, and that's what I've been
really leaning into and buildingwith Bustra.
Yeah, well, and that meaningful,I think is a is a keyword.
(10:21):
I'm I'm still old school. Every day, at least 10 times a
day, I mark as spam and block the cold emails.
And I know they're cold because it's amazing how influential
LinkedIn is because I have a dash in my name that I put years
(10:44):
ago. I put a red phone in my name
just to stand out on LinkedIn. That's how I discovered it.
So then I I toned it down just put a dash after Wes.
So I get all these cold DMS, cold emails, high W dash and
constant drips inside of LinkedIn messaging.
And I like today, today I unfollowed and remove the
(11:07):
connection of a guy. Look back like over three years.
He just said nothing but high W dash and you know, been
listening, reading your content just really inspired and
inspired me to reach out. It's like.
Yeah. No, you did.
You lie, you lie, and I'm just done.
I'm done with the fake. Yeah, you know?
(11:27):
So how are you different? What are you doing differently
with voice AI? We got a special.
Need to know. We got a special thing in there
that was going to take the dash out and it's going to call you
Wes instead of Wes, right? So that's right, you know, it's.
Real. Take the dash out, take the S
out, put AZ and I'm on. No, it's you.
Nice, nice. That's what we do.
(11:48):
No, no, look, AI is, is incredible and can do, you know,
amazing things and horrible things and can speed things up
and can slow things down and canconfuse things as well, right.
But when it comes to AI voice automation and AI voice phone
calls, what are we doing and what are we focusing on?
The goal for us is to work with clients where there's either a
(12:09):
real need, where clients are inbound.
I think inbound is is the absolute Holy Grail for AI
voice, right? And you're thinking, well, hang
on, if I call up, I want to speak to a real human.
Sure. But what are you getting at the
moment for most SAS companies, For most healthcare companies,
you're getting either. For most companies.
Hi, your call is very important to us.
(12:29):
Please stay on the line as our menu has changed.
Like has your menu changed everyday for the last 17 years?
It's unbelievable. Yeah.
Exactly. And why do I care that your
menus change? I don't want a menu.
I want to, I want to just be speaking to somebody and get a
result and move on. And, and I think the other thing
is that, you know, most SAS companies these days aren't even
publishing a phone number anywhere.
(12:51):
So you can't get in touch full stop.
But if you do have a phone number, then you're on hold for
hours, etcetera, etcetera. So what we're working on is
getting rid of that, getting ridof those annoying IVR systems
that you go through, press this,press that, or, and you end up
in some matrix that leads you down a path that you didn't want
to go down or you get stuck. You know, what we're talking
about is you call up, you're speaking to what feels like a
(13:12):
human being. Now, can you probably tell?
Sure. But it's way better than sitting
on hold for two hours and getting through to a a person
that's been sitting there havinga bad day at a call center
somewhere else in the world. Yeah, that's that's not a great
experience at all. And then when you actually ask
the person the question, they don't have that knowledge to
hand, whereas AI does. Yeah, it has that knowledge to
(13:34):
hand. Read it again.
Yeah. So that's your focus is inbound.
Focus, yeah. And mostly inbound we are doing
outbound, yeah, sure. But the outbound as well is
where we can have it for our clients.
It's warm in warm outbound, right?
So let's take an event for example, perfect use case.
You've got a large conference, there's thousands of people
(13:55):
coming. The most nerve wracking time for
an event manager is the lead up to that event that week going.
Well, we, we were told 1000 people are coming, but there
were a bunch of free tickets. There was some charge.
We don't know. So let's just assume maybe 70%
are coming. Maybe it's 80.
We don't know if you could call them three days before the event
and just say, hey, just calling up to see if there's any other
(14:17):
information that you want to know, making sure that you've
got tickets ready. Da, da, da, da, da.
Everything's come through and they can have a human
conversation. So yeah, no, we're all sorted.
Oh, by the way, is there good coffee?
Is there going to be? And it can actually give
information of the event that's useful to the customer.
And it's extremely useful to theclient that is sitting there
going how many people are going to turn up to my event?
(14:39):
And is that better than text? Yeah, I think so.
It's it's interaction. It's back and forth.
It's an actual conversation. If I get a text that says, you
know, just a reminder of next week's event, you know, I move
on. If I get a phone call and they
say, hey, just want to double check you're all sorted for the
event on Wednesday, if there's anything else you need, I can
(15:01):
very quickly just say, yeah, I'mall sorted.
Or no, no, I'm probably not coming.
Or oh look, I'm not sure. And all of that data is then
analyzed, gone through and sent into the client, broken out into
either a spreadsheet or put intotheir CRM so they know exactly
the response they got and the intent behind it as well.
(15:21):
Do people answer? I mean, just before we kick this
off, I got a text from my dentist.
You know, I got a cleaning tomorrow and I confirmed, you
know, I probably wouldn't answer.
I don't. I don't need a phone call, you
know, and they don't need a phone call either, right?
Are you coming or not? Because I mean, because
obviously they'll, they'll give away my spot if I have to
(15:42):
reschedule. Yeah, true.
And then, but then I don't answer.
I mean, I rarely answer my phone.
I, I just, I, I keep getting, I've been getting a call
regularly. So I, I answered it just before
this and there's no, there's nobody there.
So I just put them on mute and go about my business.
And you know, about a minute later they hang up.
So maybe it's it's farming to see if my number's valid or
(16:04):
whatever, but I mean, I get thata lot.
Yeah, well, I don't answer my phone very much and a lot of
people don't answer their phonesanymore.
Yeah, there, there are a lot of people that don't answer their
phones, which is is totally fair.
You know, I think if you're reaching out with e-mail, you're
reaching out with, with, with text message for an event that
they've registered to, you know,they may respond back.
I personally don't spend the time to respond to emails,
(16:26):
emails to me. I go in and I go especially
anything unsubscribe, I actuallyselect the entire inbox, I hit
delete and then I move on with my day with a very quick scan
down for any names I recognize. So that's dead WhatsApp to me.
I use and I look at Whatsapps. We can, we can do WhatsApp
messages as well. But I think that the point of an
actual phone call, especially onthe inbound level, having
(16:49):
somebody to just pick it up, have that conversation, rewire
that through to a human being, if it's relevant, triage it.
And also on a sales point of view to be able to go through
things like the the band framework or any of the other
frameworks for that matter. But on bands, just very simply,
just saying you've got the budget, you got the authority,
you got the need and you got thetimeline.
And then putting a time in an A's diary for a demo, but the
(17:14):
time comes through and it says, OK, Wes is booked in a time.
I got it right that time. Wes is booked in a time and it's
it's. Hey, I'm not saying you're
saying it wrong, you say it right.
I say it right for another Oh good.
I shared an office with the Wes for like so long and I never
thought that I sounded like I'm saying Zed at the end until
you've said it now, but there's so so the the calendar
(17:36):
appointment goes through and it's actually got all of that
filled out. Yes, budget X authority.
Yes, need timeline. So, so again, you're focused on
inbound and I think that's fine.Does the system say that it's AI
or no? Yeah, so we always like to call
it out for us, we call it out. It's up to the client if they
(17:56):
want to say, if they don't want to say anything, that's totally
fine. And a lot of the time you
wouldn't know. In fact, I was joking around.
I'm I'm going to build a an agent.
I better make sure my mom doesn't watch the sales podcast.
But I'm going to build an agent to call my mom and just see if I
can get away with like a 45 minute conversation without her
knowing it's not me. I think I can do it.
I think I can do it because we record our own voices in.
(18:17):
I think, I think I can get away with it.
But mostly that's just going to be because she's talking for 45.
Minutes our parents are trustingour parents are trusting, right?
And they're obviously they're a generation removed so they're
not quite as deep into this. And look, that's why older
people get get snookered. You know, my mother-in-law, she
(18:37):
just passed away a couple monthsago.
My wife is the forget the technical term estate trustee or
whatever for a neighbor she justpassed or her husband passed a
couple years ago now she did. And so we're in her house like
looking things up and my father-in-law was helping her
right. And he's like, can you help me?
(19:00):
He, he couldn't, couldn't do anywork on her computer because all
these notifications come up because everybody, you know,
click here to be notified, you know, of this blog or whatever.
So she would just by default accept all these things.
So, so I'm in there just turningnotifications off, showing them
how to do it. But my my mother-in-law, she had
(19:20):
subscriptions to everything man.And she was a smart woman.
She had been in business for years and that did contract and
stuff for a big health plan out here, but she still fall for
stuff. And that and that that is a
problem. You're right.
And this is this is going to happen regardless across, you
(19:41):
know, every different Ave. of technology, people are fine and
even without technology, they'refinding ways to put things in in
the post and send it out to you within, which is almost now the
easiest way to trick people because they go, well, at least
this is real. It's a piece of paper.
It's like, well, it's not right.And unfortunately those scams
keep going on And and I'm hopingthere's there's more tech that
(20:02):
helps people out to avoid them. But I think on the.
On the AI voice side of things, it's like everything else, you
know, it, it, it sounds like a human, sure, but so does a, so
does an e-mail when you're getting it through or a letter
in the mail, right? And so it is that level of is it
real or not? There's going to be a lot of
education, I think for people torealize is it real or not.
I believe it's always good to call it out.
(20:23):
And definitely for our AI agents, everything we put out,
we say, hi, I'm an AI Voice Assistant calling from X.
Just wanted to follow up about blah.
And then people know, right? Which also takes away any level
of which I find hilarious when people say, oh, I want to test
it out. And they get, oh, there was this
tiny little bit at the three minute mark where I think I
(20:44):
could tell it wasn't perfect. And he's like, have you ever
actually had a conversation witha Rep?
Because no Rep sounds perfect upto 3 minutes.
They're arming and haring or distracted or get delayed or
whatever it might be. So, you know, if you're getting
to 3 minutes or even to three seconds with an AI Rep and not
being, you know, convinced that it sounds great, then you're in
(21:04):
a pretty good spot. Yeah.
So on the outbound, are they making cold calls or is it more
confirming things? Look, like I said, it is is
totally up to the client. So we can do complete outbound
cold call to people. Personally for me, I just find
(21:25):
the success rate, most cold calling success rates pretty
low, right? You get to a point in cold
calling where you, you know, unless your list is absolutely
perfect to people have opted in or whatever that might be, it's
not great. There are obviously laws as well
around B to C, especially B to B.
It's a little bit looser. You're allowed to call B to BB
to C. Don't be calling people at home
(21:45):
that aren't on an opt in list. It's just wrong, right?
And it's not allowed. It's quite simple.
So we don't do anything like that.
If we're talking B to B cold calling out to, to other
businesses that are are, you know, relevant target markets,
that's fine. But call it out straight away.
And same way I would if I'm, I'm, you know, I started out as
an SDR and I would always call and say I didn't have an iPhone,
(22:07):
that's for sure. I'd always call and say 20 years
ago, you know, I'm just calling,I'm a salesperson calling about
X Hope you don't mind. But if you give me 30 seconds,
you know, it's that opt out factor like very clearly giving
them an opportunity to say no, Idon't have time by, you know,
rather than pretending it's not a sales call.
(22:27):
And that's the same that I'd call out for AI, call it out.
It's a sales call or it's a callabout X and I'm AI.
Do you mind giving me 30 seconds?
Always good to add humor in there as well.
If you can make a joke the AI can.
You feel like if you can make them laugh at least you could
might get them on for 30 seconds.
Yeah, hell, I was using Rotary phones when I started calling.
(22:49):
Yeah, that that's a little different from speed dialers.
The I think I at least axes and twangers, you know I.
Rode my horse, honeless breath. Well, it's strangely enough
we're working with a client in Germany at the moment.
And it, it, I almost fell off mychair when they said a lot of
(23:12):
their information still goes outby fax.
And this is 2 days ago I had that conversation.
I said get out by fax. And this is, yeah, we're working
with medical and doctors. And I was like, OK, whatever it
takes. Whatever it takes.
So what does it take to start a Business Today?
So you this is what, 2 years old?
(23:33):
Three years old. None of this business is in
market for three months, but up and running for a year like we
started a year ago. Very how did you find the
inspiration? Like how did you know this was a
good venture? You know, pathway to go down.
Yeah, great question. And I actually coach other
entrepreneurs on this as well ashow do you find out?
(23:54):
Is it a good business? Is it just a passion?
Is it something you're excited about?
For me, it's very much about, you know, does it excite you to
start with first start with that.
Are you passionate about it? Are you interested in engaged by
it? If it were to actually succeed,
would you want that job? Right?
That's a a great place to start.Once you've done that, it's
about, you know, exploring the market and looking at at the
(24:16):
numbers like what, what can thisbe charged for?
Therefore, you know, what's yourprofit margin at the end?
Is there a market there that that can service that and get to
the level of scale that you'd need to to make a profit in a
business like that? And those very simple business
questions. It's just a spreadsheet.
So I actually find one of the most creative spaces.
You know, I love creativity. This is this is my painting my
(24:38):
daughter and I did behind me here.
I love painting. I love art and, and one of the
most creative places I think youcan be is an Excel spreadsheet.
You get to paint the future and go, here's my forecast.
This is what the world could look like.
This is what this business couldlook like.
How can I, you know, and of course, I'm not talking about
creative accounting in in the other sense, I'm talking about
forecasting. Let's dream, let's go.
(24:59):
What if we did have 4 million clients on this?
What if we did have, you know, whatever that number might be,
what does that business look like?
And some businesses you look at and go, oh, if we got thousands
of clients, this business would be a nightmare, right?
And that's just the reality for a lot of businesses.
But they don't do the forecast. They just get to the nightmare
and go, what did I do? And so for me, having had
(25:23):
businesses in the past successful and unsuccessful, I
look back and go this business, when it scales, is a dream.
All right, so why, why AI just think it's here to stay?
I think it's definitely here to say, I think it's definitely
here to say I think in the same way computers, tech, Internet,
(25:44):
all of these things as they cameonline, automobiles,
manufacturing, the whole thing, you know, you look at those,
those evolutions that happen. I think it's in a, it's in an
excitement bubble that everyone's excited about it and
talking about it and no one can get away from it.
In the same way that, you know, plenty of things in the past
were when they first came out and everyone was amazed by the
(26:05):
iPhone and then there's other iPhones and there's other
Samsung and other things. The excitement will die down.
I think the impact, underlying impact will be huge, positive
and negative. I think there's definitely
negatives there. There'll be job losses and other
things, but that happens in every single cycle that we go
(26:26):
through and this one will be no different.
So because it is? Yeah.
So because it is new and there'sa lot of hype, you know, it's
like, do you want to be bleedingedge?
Do you want something to be moremature?
You know, do you think is it riskier to be early or is it, is
it less risky to be early? Yeah, I think early is as good
(26:50):
as late and I think bleeding edge is, is a challenge versus
leading edge. I think for my last business I
was at the exact right time at the right place and we lent into
AI five years ago plus and and, you know, built products around
it back then. I don't think it's bleeding edge
right now. I think where we're at, there
(27:12):
are still problems, but it's it's leading edge with a, you
know, a lower case L that's going to a bigger case L or
there's like a trailing little case B, whatever you might want
to put it. Yeah, there are still
challenges. There are still hurdles.
There are things that fall over,and I think that's fine.
I think we're at a stage where most businesses are wanting to
experiment and lean in, and if they don't lean in now, at least
(27:35):
to learn and test what works forthem, I think companies are
going to fall behind. So you're looking around, you're
staring at your navel, getting sunburn, and you go AI is it?
What's your first move? Did you did you hire an overseas
developer? You know what I did very first,
(27:56):
very first practical move that Idid, I said AI is it, let's find
what communities are out there that are big into AI.
Now I knew I knew enough about AI and enough about product.
I'm not a, I'm not a tech guy. I'm more a product guy.
I got the vision of where I wanted to be and then I can, I
can build a team around that. So I was like, where, where is
that team? You know, where can I find the
(28:17):
right people? And I actually jumped onto a
WhatsApp community here in London, found a bunch of texts
and, and entrepreneurs and, and other devs that were just
chatting about everything, stuffthat I had no idea about, stuff
that I did have an idea about. And I would just scroll through
that group and then look at who's on it.
And I just put community questions out there.
And when certain people came back with really great answers,
(28:39):
I just connected on the side andsaid, Hey, you know, I see
you're on this group, you know, we should chat.
And I just jumped on calls and got to know people.
And then one of those, those people actually said, Hey, love
the idea of what you're thinkingabout.
And that stage, it was actually a different concept within the
voice space, different concept altogether.
And he said, look, I love the idea of what you're talking
about. Let's see if we can work
(29:01):
together. I could help spin something up.
And and he did. And we started working together
for a few months on that until Irealized, hang on, this is more
achievable on a concert conversational level than the
product we were building. It's also a lot bigger scale if
we can get into the business of inbound phone calls and outbound
(29:22):
when when necessary. So that's where, you know, I
said, let's let's rock'n'roll, let's build something.
And we've built that platform. Now we're not building the LLM
behind right. We're we're like everyone else
relying on on big tech that's out there already that have
spent billions of dollars and wecan switch between all of them
as we choose to. So that means very quickly, if
something does change and open IR does something incredible or
(29:44):
Google does something incredible, well, our client
benefit from that rather than ussitting here going, oh, sorry,
we got to do another round of funding to go and chase
something we're never going to beat.
So that's the the position we'rein at the moment.
And what we're really offering is, is how to then build all the
other elements around it. The integrations into those
systems that give you the calendar appointments, the CRM
(30:05):
integrations, you know, being able to transfer calls, all that
sort of fun stuff, actually making it useful and done for
you. So is it safe to say?
I mean, are you kind of buildinga wrapper?
Yeah, a big part of it's a wrapper.
A big part of it's a wrapper and, and, and it's not just a
wrapper to say, hey, this is thesame thing.
Let's just put a cloak on. It looks different.
(30:26):
It's then what can you do with that?
You know, that's different. So take Perplexity for example.
Perplexity is a wrapper, right? And, and it's a huge business.
It's a fantastically successful business.
I use it all the time. It's fantastic.
But they're not building their own LLM.
They're they're not stupid. They're going hang on, all the
LLMS work like this. We could use them to work like
(30:48):
this. And then they've gone and built
perplexity. So, you know, in the same way, I
think most of the businesses in the future are going to be
relying on some way, shape or form on the big models that are
out there and then building on top of them.
Which is is almost kind of like saying, oh, hang on, are you
just an e-commerce business? As in you're like, you're
relying on the Internet and therefore it's like, yeah, of
(31:10):
course I'm relying on the Internet.
That's where my business is held.
That's where everything lives, but we're doing something
different, right? And that's where I think there's
a lot of value for entrepreneursmoving forward as well.
It's not easy. It's not easy to spend something
up. Everyone has this idea of kind
of going 0, but you can spend something up over a weekend and
on Monday you're an entrepreneurand you've got a business.
(31:31):
No, you're not. Like even if you do get a
product away by Monday, which you won't, if you happen to get
a prototype up, it'll fall over pretty quickly under scrutiny.
But if you do manage to build a product, which is great, we all
know the next part is understanding sales and
marketing and, and, and market generation and actually building
(31:51):
a team to go and deliver that. Yeah.
So what do you say to the purists?
You know, because people they want to build the next iPhone,
right, or next Apple kernel and,you know, build it up from its
core versus just build a wrapper.
(32:12):
You know, there's a, where I live, there's like 50 wineries
and one of the big ones is called Wilson Creek.
And I know the founders, the Wilsons and, you know, the
second generation is running it now.
And we have a big balloon and wine festival out here that
coming up this, I mean, next week, two weeks, it's always in
June. And yeah, Wilson Creek, they're
(32:34):
they have a huge balloon shaped like they're almond champagne.
And I just learned a few years ago that they white label that
they don't even make it. Yeah.
So once they're paying actual. Champagne, they can't make it
because it has to come from the Champagne region.
But yeah, and this is one of those things as well, branding
(32:55):
and. Everything but look, we're we're
ugly Americans. We say we'll call it champagne
and say come over here and fightus.
But I. Digress.
So it's. Sparkling.
Whatever. It's sparkling juice.
Yeah. And it's cheap.
Yeah, they sell it. They sell it to the place.
But like you can literally go toCostco or Sam's Club right here
in town and buy it for like 10 or $11.00 a bottle.
(33:18):
But I mean, what they are known for is something that they just
put a wrapper on and market, youknow, now they do make some of
their own wines, but. And and you look at that with
anything. And so you say, I love, I love
Ford Motor cars, right? And you go great, excellent.
So let's break it apart. You know, and once you actually
(33:38):
break it apart, they're just a rapper.
Like they're just, you know, Ford might be a bad example and
somebody's going to get very offended by this.
But, you know, effectively you pull apart a car, a lot of them
are built by the same manufacturers and the same bits
and pieces in the back end mightactually be for doing that for a
lot of the others. That's OK.
But then you take ATV, right? I love Samsung.
No, I love Sony. OK, well, they're the same
(33:59):
thing, right? You know, once we actually break
it down to the factory and wherethose parts came from, I got a
friend that's very, very wealthyin the US that their entire
business. I was so jealous because
effectively, if you break it down, once again, all they did
was take a product from China, bring it into the US, which now
it's going to get taxed. But you know, they they then.
(34:20):
Yeah. Well, everything will get taxed
and then they just sell it, right?
And that's, that's all all they're doing.
And when you, you look at any business, it's like a game of
football. You break it down.
What have you got? Well, you got you got a bunch of
men or women dressed in laundry with a ball trying to get it
over a line. OK, cool.
So that's pretty stupid. Well, it's not once you actually
(34:43):
bring it together, there's so much amazing stuff going on
there, right. But when you RIP anything apart,
and I think that's what people are trying to do with AI is go
that's just a wrapper. You're like, yeah, OK, cool.
And a Baker is just somebody that gets a bunch of flour and
water and makes bread, but the bread's amazing and it's put
into a coffee shop and, you know, or a shop and people go
(35:04):
there and smell it and love it. And they they have their their
bread there, right. So, yeah, this is one of those
things that any business, I think when you pull it apart,
it's very, very simple. It's about how you put those
parts together, how you serve the customer and the experience
that you can give that customer in working with you.
Can you make it simple? Can you make it what they want?
Can you solve their pain point? If you can, you got a business.
(35:27):
Doesn't matter if it's built on the back of flour and water or
AI and you know a bunch of othercomponents brought in to make it
happen. Yeah, I was in the tech space
for years and that's when it dawned on me.
Like you open up the guts of these computers and it's an
Intel or an AMD chip. It's a, you know, Seagate or
(35:48):
Western Digital hard drive and, you know, NVIDIA graphics card
and like. They're just assembling.
Stuff we just put in a differentform factor, you know, had our
own operating system to control the things.
But the guts were the, you know,you'd lay them apart.
You break them apart and lay them down.
You're like, I don't know, is that a Dell?
(36:09):
Is that a gateway HP? I don't know.
Yeah, I had a guy in my podcast who who has built a multi
billion dollar company in the storage space and you know,
we're talking online cloud storage and they couldn't get
hard drives fast enough. They ended up going down to the
local store and just grabbing, you know, consumer hard drives
and we're plugging these things in.
(36:29):
And so effectively they're charging a person on the end to
upload footage to go back to a thing they could have bought
down the street, but it sits in their warehouse instead of yours
and they've got you on a monthlycontract.
It's amazing. But it serves a purpose.
And you know, they then did triple back it up and all those
sort of fun things. So they've got a great business.
I think the the key to any business is how do you say save
(36:53):
a customer time and how do you solve their problem?
And if you can make that experience pleasurable and have
a nice graphical user interface,good service behind it.
In our case, we're done for you service.
So we're not sitting here. Just go ahead, jump on our
platform. It's the same as someone else's
with a new funny face on it. We're actually doing that
service for them, setting everything up, doing the
numbers. We've got a human in the loop
(37:15):
that's checking, making sure that the the AI is not
hallucinating the calls are actually going through correctly
and fixing the prompts as well, which a lot of people jumping in
there thinking they're they're prompt engineers because they
put in how do I prompt engineer into Google or ChatGPT?
So that's that's the case that the team in the back end making
it work smoothly. Yeah.
(37:38):
So you said a year ago you had the idea, but then you've been
live for three months. That's right.
So you just bootstrapped for those nine months?
Yeah, bootstrapped. Yeah, My goal is to not raise.
My goal is just to, to bootstrapthis one out, you know, fund it
myself. But even then I'm, I'm not.
And whether it's a sort of an experiment for me as well.
(37:59):
I did a little bit of business coaching, but when I between the
two ventures found it's not really my passion.
It's not for me as much as I do enjoy it and I think it's
fantastic and and business coaches are awesome.
I'm not one of them. So I I went right, I'm going to
get back in and and play the game again.
But I want to do it from zero because you hear so many excuses
(38:20):
when people go, Oh yeah, well, it's good for some, but I've now
got a family or I've got this or, you know, I could never do
that because XYZ. I thought, well, rather than
just saying, well, it's good forme because I exited the company.
So isn't that great? I want to get in there and and
bootstrap it out. Well, you had me on your podcast
and you yelled at me and made mecry.
So yeah, it's good. You recognize it.
You're not a coach, man. I mean, I mean, you're a mean
(38:42):
coach. So I mean, there's something,
there's maybe there's a room fora mean coach, but I mean, just
go develop some stuff. OK, That's good.
You found your lane. You're going to edit that crying
out, right? You probably.
Good, good. Hang on.
This is your podcast. You get to edit that?
Yeah. So, but for nine months?
Like who, who are you bringing on?
(39:04):
I mean, are the software developers, are they AI experts?
So. Everything in my working so far
has been AI and AI engineers anddevelopers.
And now on the customer success side, where we've got a person
on the customer one one other and myself on the customer
success and the rest is is devs and engineers.
(39:24):
So you know, building out the platform, building out the back
end and then a lot of time even though people go, hey, it's easy
to integrate into HubSpot sales force, all this other stuff that
takes a lot of work just to get things right.
So that's been the main part of our work at the moment.
And I, I think the future development of what I'm building
is going to be sales. It's you know, what I do know
(39:47):
very well from my previous venture is that enterprise sales
motion and and how to put that flywheel in in again.
And you know, you could laugh and say, well, hang on, can't
you just get buzz travel to callthe world?
Like I said, I don't think boiling the ocean with a million
calls out to people in their their mobile phones is is the
answer. I think the answer is still, you
(40:09):
know, smart marketing, good salespeople, people to people
and then using. Bus trail as an engine to be
able to make that more efficientand make the sales people's time
efficient, you know, sitting there just dialing number after
number after number doesn't workregardless.
But if someone's calling inbound, you might have damn
well make sure that someone picks up that phone at all hours
(40:31):
of the day, you know, and, and that means having an AI
available after hours on the lunch break.
You know, the amount of times I've heard of leads going, you
know, unmet and then not called back.
And then you look in the system,you go, why did nobody call back
Sue? Oh, it was a private e-mail
address. So, you know, it's just busy.
And I assumed it was nothing like.
(40:52):
Yeah, well, Sue happens to be the VP of Whatever Wherever and
you missed it. How soon do you foresee having a
set your first, you know, one ortwo or three sales people?
I think within the next few months, yeah, we're we're
looking to hire next month. I'm always looking for
salespeople, but yeah, I think within the next few months.
(41:15):
And like what? What will you have them do day
one? Day one to be honest is, is make
sure they know the tools that they can work on.
So we, we use things like clay, for example, we use HubSpot as
our CRM. So just making sure they're
across the tools. And then to be honest, it's
going to be getting on and calling.
I always like people to start with their network and go, who
(41:35):
do you know, right? Like just give them a call,
practice, jump on the phone, call people, you know, they're
the worst people to call. Just sell them the product and
have a chat. You're going to stuff it up
anyway, so go for it. And then from that point, you
know, we have a database. So there will be cold calls
happening without a doubt for, for SDRS.
But my goal is hopefully fingerscrossed we get our e-mail
(41:58):
marketing correct and our our LinkedIn marketing correct and
we get those inbounds in so thatNIA is spending most of their
time in meetings that are bookedwith Buzztra.
For the outbound, like you say, you have a database like.
Where'd that come from? So we've built up a database
from buying mostly cognism data,so cognism data to our target
(42:22):
market. I think one of the most sort of
obvious spaces for this is insurance companies, insurance
brokers, finance brokers that have inbound that they're
missing because they're on othercalls or doing other things.
And also when people call them, it's it's often the same
question. OK, great.
(42:42):
You know, can I ask you about XY?
Is it? It's prescriptive.
They're pretty much just got a form they're filling out that
can very easily be done and triaged by AI.
So my goal is to target in on that market and and build it
out. Therapeutics has been a space as
well. Health and therapeutics has been
a space that we've had success already and event companies.
Nice. Yeah, that's cool.
(43:06):
That's very nice. So what's that?
I just that's who we're going after.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's good to have it
dialed down because, you know, Italked with people and I don't
know where to start or how to start.
People don't answer the phone. Where do I get good data?
You know, should I call it a cell phone?
Like, am I allowed to call a cell phone?
And do I leave a voicemail? You know, like, what are your
(43:29):
thoughts on that? I, I love leaving a voicemail
personally, I think it, it adds up sort of like a credit, right?
If you leave a voicemail and then you leave another one.
Now don't keep calling and calling, calling.
If they're not calling back, they'll call you back.
Leave it alone. But if you're leaving a
voicemail, you know, 2, maybe three times if it is a specific
person that you know is relevant, you know, once again,
(43:50):
when they say call mobiles, absolutely, absolutely.
I will go for the mobile every single day of the week over a
landline personally. And if I get through to them,
that's fantastic. I'm always calling someone
though that I believe it's a relevant product for if I'm not,
if I'm just calling random people, why would I do that?
And so I want to know my my exact target market.
(44:11):
I want to know my value proposition.
I want to know that it's relevant to that person and the
pain that I'm solving and that Ican call.
And there are there are cool tools out there.
I saw one recently called Glyphic, which is a really
interesting tool about helping you refine that down and get the
exact science on why this particular person wants to buy.
I, I love that sort of stuff, but you can also get lost in the
(44:34):
science. To be honest, if you're talking
about start-ups, I'd just say just find a list, you know, buy
a list. Places like cognism are fine,
great place to start. You can do clay and all sorts of
stuff to, you know, refine things down, but get a list that
you can call and hit the phone and and then you're, you're
really just making sure that you're adding value and on a
(44:54):
sales pitch. For me, it is always starting
with, you know, hey, Mike here calling from Buzz Trail.
I hope you don't mind me callingyou out of the blue, but I think
this is relevant for you. Do you have 30 seconds?
And most of the time people willgo, go on.
You've got exactly 30. Give me your elevated pitch.
Let's go. And then, then they've give it.
They've opened the door and they've allowed you to have the
(45:15):
elevator pitch. You better damn well know your
elevator pitch and you better doit really quickly.
And don't you stay concise? Will you text somebody cold or I
got after voicemail to send a text or send a text I'm about to
call? I've never tried it unless
somebody has connected with me on WhatsApp, then I've
(45:38):
whatsapped and and I don't know how it is in the US, but most
areas, especially through Asia where I lived for five years and
here WhatsApp is everything. In fact, I don't bother
communicating any other way but WhatsApp.
And so that's that's something I've done, but I've never
actually text messaged someone to be honest.
Just out of the blue, do you find?
It I'm wondering like what's that?
(45:58):
Do you find it works? I don't have.
It's not done much to me. Almost nobody leave.
I don't get many inbound calls, cold calls I get a handful.
Almost no texts. But if I have someone's cell
phone, I will leave a voicemail message and send a text right
(46:23):
behind it, yeah. OK, I like that.
And, and you can maybe test the other way of sending the text
first saying you're about to call.
I tell people, I guess if somebody, if I'm just chatting
to somebody, say I'm going to give you a call and I don't have
their number, I'm like, text me before you call or I won't
answer. But I've also learned relatively
(46:46):
recently that and it makes sensethat you know, when you text
from ACRM, the text is green, whereas you know, you text from
your iPhone and go into an iPhone, it'll be that blue
message. So there's more success with
that. But the problem obviously as a
company that doesn't scale, you know, and you, you have no
(47:08):
history. So that's that's a bit of a
catch 22 in that regard. Yeah, it's interesting.
I like it. Yeah.
Following up and thinking back, I do that on WhatsApp if I've,
if I can get somebody like last night I was in a networking
event. My question will always be, you
know, are you on WhatsApp? And they go, yeah.
And I go great, excellent. Let's just, for me, and I was
(47:31):
just say for me, that's just super easy.
I I'd lose emails and, you know,phone calls are more difficult.
Can we just do WhatsApp? Yeah.
And I'll always just send them aWhatsApp and give them a call so
that that works well. But that's, that's a contact
that I've made right? As opposed to hey I just found
this number. So one thing I've been working
on is a little lightweight CRM like for, for I'm calling it the
(47:54):
pre CRM like because I'm, I'm a HubSpot partner and user and
been an Infusoft partner since 2008.
You know, but most of these platforms today, they have
thresholds, right? You, you know, let's say you buy
a list, you get 1000 names, you get whatever 5000 names.
Now you go over your, your threshold, you already have
(48:16):
maybe 9000, you get 2000. Now you're at 11.
Oh, the threshold's 10. Now you pay more.
But out of all those that the 2000 you just bought, there
might be 20 lead, you know, deals that come out of that and
you know, maybe 100 that you would stay in touch with over a
year or so. And so because I built an
(48:39):
automation for doing the outbound and streamlining it and
creating the cadence and the multimedia, you know, assign the
tasks in the call, leave a voicemail, send an e-mail right
behind that that reinforces it, you know, look them up on social
media, complete the task, the task, the next step, you know,
(48:59):
one day, 2 day, whatever your cadence is, but that that
outbound e-mail is cold, right? So like if I acquired a list.
And so how do you protect the, you know, your IP reputation,
your domain reputation from sending a cold?
(49:22):
You know, it's it's a one off, but it's still automated and
it's cold. Yeah.
That's something I'm. Yeah, I like the pre CRM right
now. I have had that challenge where
you go, I don't need all of these contacts in my CRM, but
I've got a load in somewhere to send all the emails out.
(49:42):
Then all of a sudden, you know, we ended up, we started at my
last company at 100. Sorry, we started at free for
HubSpot, as you do. And I was so excited instead of
Salesforce and that was great. But then we ended up spending
120,000 a year on HubSpot and itwas just because the company
(50:02):
grew and now, you know, OK, I was fine.
We were turning over 20 million.It's not the end of the world,
but it, it was a lot of money looking back that we didn't need
to spend because most of the data in there was probably
rubbish. As opposed to just going, let's
just cool our jets, bring it back to where it needs to be
and, and. Go from they're smart man these
(50:24):
all these apps are sticky. Yeah, yeah.
And, and expensive as well, you know, Salesforce, don't get me
started, but that's, you know, ridiculously expensive and the
large companies are spending huge amounts of money, but you
kind of you're trapped. You can't get out.
So look, I think on a business model, yeah, if you can find a
way to help that out and and be a part of that and I love it.
(50:46):
Well, HubSpot is becoming Salesforce.
Yeah, it is unfortunately. And there's a million coming up
through the ranks that are then going to take HubSpot space, so.
Yeah, I'm literally like, I may keep it because, you know, I
started as a partner and I got agreat deal and for me it made
sense because they're great support and all, and it let me
(51:08):
shift costs appropriately and I resold it and made money and
then they changed the partner agreement plan and then they
they keep increasing. But like I literally I made a
list here like if I were to replace HubSpot, but it does a
lot, you know, you start lookingat like lead pages or unbounce
(51:29):
and, and quiz types tools and, and e-mail marketing and like I
password protect something. So I use it kind of as a hybrid
membership site, you know, in a way.
But I'm just saying like, how can I dumb things down?
I want to keep it simpler and simpler and simpler because back
in the day it was cool to be super advanced.
(51:53):
If then you know, you were tagging, you know, on the
e-mail, did you click the, you know, the the top buy now button
or the middle or the bottom, youknow?
And like. We don't even know all that
it's. Too much and, and, and and
especially now with AI as well, there's just too much
information. There's word salad, right?
You just got all this words, OK,give me the one line that I need
(52:16):
to know. And I think we've got to
remember always, you know, people buy from people and
you've just got to spend as muchtime as you can in front of
another human being to sell. And, and for me with any
business, and, and same with Buzz trail, ironically, yes,
we're putting AI agents in there, but it's to get people in
front of people. Because if you can actually free
(52:39):
up your time of your reps so that they're spending more time
on phone calls, on video calls, in meetings, having coffee,
having a beer, you know, that's where deals are done.
It's not done scrolling through data and mucking around with,
you know, waiting for inbound calls or trying to chase
outbounds. I think it's it's about getting
in front of people. Cool.
Well, I'm linking to your LinkedIn and to your site, so
(53:02):
it's buzz trail dot AI, right? That is US.
That is US indeed. And who do you want reaching
out? I mean, is it for bigger
companies right now? Do you want like a real estate
agent? Yeah, yeah.
So anywhere, anywhere from real estate agent up, I think
realistically, you know, it's, it's a matter of do you have a
an inbound challenge and do you have a sales team that can work
(53:24):
with a tool like this? And I'd love to love to hear
from you and for any listeners that want to mention where's not
where's, but maybe just. Put where's?
No, they have to. They have to do the Z.
You got to do the Z. Drop me AZ in a message, find me
on LinkedIn, the links there andand drop me a Wes with AZ and
we'll, we'll chat and I'll, I'lloffer you a better deal.
(53:47):
But yeah, very keen to to work with some of your listeners and
see what we can offer them. But I think it's really about
inbound challenges and obviouslywe can do outbound.
I just, I don't want to promise something I can't deliver.
And I, I feel the, the dream of,hey, we're just going to call
everyone in, in America and suddenly we're billionaires.
(54:08):
It's just not reality. Yeah, Yep.
Cool, cool. Well, all right, Mike, it's all
the way from. You're in London, right?
I'm in London, sunny London. It's actually sunny right now.
Take it while I can. So we're.
Sunny California. I got the palm tree right
outside my window here, You know, come, come visit.
I'll get you some at Wilson Creek Almond Champagne.
(54:31):
Nice, nice. I am in well, one of my, one of
my main reps is in in San Diego and I'm I might be across to
Santa Monica soon for a, a conference.
So we we have a lot of work. I'm in between the two.
I got two daughters in San Diego, so if you come that way,
let me know. Very nice.
I will indeed. Thanks for having me on the
(54:52):
sale. It's always good fun.
Yeah. Man, thanks for coming to the
show. Have a good day.
Yes, you too. OK, so it is buzz trail dot AI,
not buzz kill. OK, no buzz kill here.
So buzz trail dot AI. Mike's a good guy.
I was on his podcast on Monday, so which was 2 days ago.
(55:13):
I like what he's doing. I like his approach, you know, I
like how he opens up and just honest, you know, open and
honest. I like that he's, you know,
declaring or disclosing that he's using AII have used a
similar opener that he is talking about.
I had Justin Michael on the sales podcast not too long ago
(55:35):
and he is a little more aggressive, little more direct
with his outbound. Let me see if I can find that
real quick. What episode was he on?
But Justin calls those PB OS, right?
Permission based openings Justinwas on episode 664 that was
published in July 27th of 24. And if you're on Spotify, I'll
(56:01):
link to that that episode from here.
But Justin is a little more direct now, but he does say, you
know, Justin is in the trenches of cold calling.
And the permission based openersdo still work.
But you need to to know your audience, you to know yourself,
(56:24):
your offering. You've got to be concise in how
you open, how you deliver that punch.
But your tonality, your volume, your pace, all of that matters.
So you can make almost any opener work, but you've got to
own it. OK.
Now Justin's, you know, go listen to episode 664.
(56:45):
I like his approach. I have added that to my
repertoire. I've added that into my
objection handling workbook. That is part of my agenda
setting template as well. You get all of that in the 12
weeks to peak. You get that in the inner
circle, you know, and I do that in one-on-one coaching.
So you need some help with your sales, with your marketing, with
(57:10):
your thinking. You want some clarity, you want
some accountability, and you know, let's talk.
Like I said at the opening, vip.twelveweekstopeak.com, you
can join right away or you can schedule time to talk.
You can do the same thing with the inner circle, right?
Go check that out and we'll see if it's right for you.
(57:31):
OK, but when you join 12 weeks to peak, not only do you get
access to the inner circle for ayear, you get access to
everything else at half price when you renew.
And I do the same with the innercircle.
If you if you join for a year inthe inner circle, your renewal
is half off. But you can kick the tires week
(57:51):
to week for up to four weeks. You can dip your toe in the
water for 1/4. OK, but the annual folks, you
get that 50% off of anything else that I do.
OK, so avail yourself of that. Let me help you grow.
But I guess that I'll put the links in the show notes.
But thanks for listening. I'll go sell something.
Hey, welcome to the 718th episode, the sales podcast.
I'm with Shaffer. The sales was for your host
today we have Mike Pritchett. He founded a company, big
company, 32 sales and marketing people on the team, 150 plus
staff. And after eight years it it got
to him. He sold it.
He hung out for a bit and did not like being retired and it's
(00:23):
starting something new. So we get into the lessons
learned of growing a company, selling a company, finding a new
calling and how to grow in today's crazy hectic world.
We get into outbound calling, inbound calling, e-mail AI, and
he's got a lot of lessons learned.
So you are you're in for a treat.
(00:44):
OK. And this episode towards again,
he talked about how he he kind of dabbled in coaching and
consulting and he said it wasn'this jam.
You know, he likes building stuff, running teams, and I find
that interesting. I like coaching and consulting
and I'd rather not run teams along those lines, right?
That's why I have my inner circle I'll link to.
(01:05):
That's why I have a new offeringwith the 12 weeks to peak.
Call it the VIP. And that's for one-on-one help,
daily help, daily accountabilityfor 12 weeks.
Check that out vip.twelveweekstopeak.com.
I'll link to that in the show notes.
But if you join that, you get access to the inner circle for a
(01:25):
year and you can renew the 12 weeks to peak and and you can
renew annually in the inner circle at half price.
That's a little a little perk I'm throwing in there.
And same thing with the inner circle.
If you join for a year, you cannot renew a half off.
So avail yourself of that right.If you're not sure if it's
(01:45):
right, There's a link on those pages to my calendar and we can
talk about it and see how I might be able to help, You know,
look around the Internet. There's no, there's no one star
reviews on me. Strong arming, belittling, hard
closing, pressuring people into anything.
It's not my style. I've been in sales since 1997
(02:08):
and put food on the table for a family of nine and two crazy
dogs because I just do things right and I teach you how to do
it right. OK.
So avail yourself of that, right?
Hop over to those and let me seehow I can help you.
We can work together. And after you do that, come back
and listen to this episode with MM Pritchett sold the big
(02:29):
company, starting the new company from Australia, London.
A man, a man of many homes, manytalents.
Welcome to the sales podcast. How the heck are you?
Thank you was I am very well. I'm very well indeed.
Good to be here. I noticed something, I think
it's an Aussie thing. That's how I know you're Aussie.
(02:49):
It's because I'm y'all call me Wes.
Are are s s ZS in in Aussie land?
Did I go for Wes? It's a yeah.
Fair. Fair.
They are. No.
Yes. I know I'm fine with it.
Wes, fair enough, Fair enough. Well, you know, if you come down
to. Australians like Canadians out
(03:11):
and about in house. Yeah, and Australians it's, it's
also the the DS in things like water instead of water, you
know, And now that I've, I've moved to London, 1 needs to up
their game on pronunciation and it's water, not water.
So it's. Oh yeah.
Yeah. Do you have to like, raise your
chin when you say that? Absolutely.
(03:32):
I just put a couple of plums in my mouth and off we go.
Do they drink tea in Australia or do you all say like stick it
up your butt and like drink fosters?
We well, we certainly don't drink Fosters.
That's one thing I can guarantee.
No Aussie. In.
Their right mind. Well, we learned plenty of beer,
but no Fosters. I know it's like Budweiser, it's
(03:53):
like it's well, popular in a popular ride, but like I can't
remember ever ordering a Budweiser on purpose.
Like if you hand me one I'll drink it.
Like I don't order it. It's funny, actually, Speaking
of, of sales and marketing during the 2000 Olympics, I, I
just thought, what on earth is this?
Every billboard in Sydney was packed with Foster's ads,
(04:14):
whereas Australian as Foster's and all this sort of stuff.
And every Australian just said I've never once seen this
advertised here. And then because they don't
advertise it in Australia, they don't bother.
We don't drink it, they just advertise it to the rest of the
world as the Australian drink. It's, you know, it's so many
things like Corona isn't like the best beer in Mexico, but
it's marketed, you know, and like watch, watch purists will
(04:35):
say, I don't own a Rolex, but it's the best marketed, you
know, so, so, you know, maybe wecan talk about that.
Do you need you need a great product to win in sales?
I guess you don't. No, you just got to win in
sales, right? You got to win in sales and
market marketing helps, obviously people buy some
people. And if you've got the best, best
(04:57):
story, you can sell it. Right.
So you, you were telling me before we hit record, I mean,
you'd built up a business. What'd you say?
You had 32 sales people. Yeah, we had 32 in sales and
marketing combined. We we had 150 in the team.
All up, we were in seven countries, a whole bunch of time
zones and a whole bunch of headaches for me.
(05:18):
I hear that a lot people dream they're going to make it big,
and then I thought to people like I want to make it small.
And it's interesting on that same note with funding, right,
you speak to people that go, I just want to get funding, I just
want to get funding. And then they get funding and
they made a a founder the bootstrapped and they go, well,
at least you own it, right? Yeah.
(05:39):
So what? We're going to get into what
you're doing now in a minute. But what what did you not like
about running a big team? Because I mean, a lot of people
listening to this are entrepreneurs.
Maybe they're part of a big team.
I'm going to do my own, you know.
And now here you are making a huge shift.
I mean, you were the CEO and founder, right?
(06:01):
Yeah. So what?
What role will be in charge? You got 150 people.
I'm the boss. Yeah, that does get a stage
where you're not you're not in the grit anymore.
You know, I think as a as a CEO founder that's or founder, ditch
the CEO part. If you're a founder in there
getting things done, that spark of the startup dream and the
(06:21):
excitement of every little bit counts and every little move
makes a big shift. And then, you know, after a
while you go, OK, well, revenuesgoing up, things are flat.
And I think, let's be honest, most founders then just, you
know, get the hand grenade and throw it in there to cause drama
because we all live and die by the the adrenaline.
And that's something that I did as well and cause all sorts of
challenges in my own business. When I look back at it now, at
(06:44):
the time, they seem like great ideas.
The reality is I think the the spark and the energy of small
start up and building is a is a lot more exciting than you know,
hey, do we hire another person in the HR team to look after the
the team that look after the team that look after the people
that may eventually be the ones doing the hustling?
(07:05):
Yeah, yeah, I can see that because it's, I think I'm more
in the, in the startup mindset, you know, hungry.
My, my son turned my wife and meonto this HBO series called The
Pit, you know, and it's, it's about AER doctors and, and it
(07:27):
was 15 shows and it was literally 15 hours.
So it was like starting their shift.
And of course there's an incident.
So they, they work overtime. So it was 15, a 15 hour shift in
an ER in a, in a super chaotic ER.
And I'm watching that like a friend of mine is a radiologist.
And so I'm text, we text all thetime.
(07:48):
And I'm, I'm busting his balls. You know, I'm like, look at you
just lounging around. Go in, look at some pictures, go
home. He's like, yes, I love it that
way. And I'm like, I think I'd be an
ER doc. It's like, yeah, let's go, go,
go shifts over. I'm going home.
Don't call me, you know I'll be back when my shifts on.
(08:10):
And, and there's a level of thatwith with startup life that it
is just pure energy and rush. When it's on, it's on and that's
exciting. When you win a client, there's
that excitement and that buzz and that and nothing beats that
adrenaline rush of got a massiveclient.
Big win, celebrate it. Let's go after the next.
Once you've got spreadsheets in front of you and you're working
(08:31):
to targets that are set for, youknow, at where they are for one
reason or another, and then you've got to live up to them
and you've got other people thatyou working to and the board
that you promised XYZ. It's a bit of a different beast.
And I think any founder that's taken on, you know, large
amounts of money as well, like Ipretty much bootstrapped my last
company. It wasn't well funded.
So that's fine. But if you're in that VC freight
(08:54):
train, you're effectively just chasing the next, you know, exit
for them or the next valuation. Yeah.
So, so you sold that what, two years ago now?
Two years ago this month. Yeah, yeah, two years ago.
So it's. Yeah.
It's good to be out and it's good to be out and moving on to
the next thing. Had had the obligatory time off.
(09:16):
Sit on the beach, stare at your navel, you know, start selling
beach chairs if you sit on the beach for too long.
So it's, it was on the what, what could we do next?
And for me, you know, I've, I'vehad a, a bunch of ideas and
concepts that have always been rattling around my head.
But AI voice for me, you know, I'm into podcasting and that
scene and, and the AI voice was interesting to me, but I sat
(09:39):
there and I go, oh, it's a gimmick.
It's a gimmick. You know, I know who's going to
listen to an AI podcast. And then I started to look at
the voices and think they're getting pretty realistic.
What what is here that we can actually do that's meaningful,
right. And then once we got to the
conversational stage, I went, OK, So what can we do here
(09:59):
that's meaningful? And, you know, I don't think the
meaningful side of that is goingcold calling the world with
another bloody bot. There's got to be some, some
purpose to what this can do. And, and that's what I've been
really leaning into and buildingwith Bustra.
Yeah, well, and that meaningful,I think is a is a keyword.
(10:21):
I'm I'm still old school. Every day, at least 10 times a
day, I mark as spam and block the cold emails.
And I know they're cold because it's amazing how influential
LinkedIn is because I have a dash in my name that I put years
(10:44):
ago. I put a red phone in my name
just to stand out on LinkedIn. That's how I discovered it.
So then I I toned it down just put a dash after Wes.
So I get all these cold DMS, cold emails, high W dash and
constant drips inside of LinkedIn messaging.
And I like today, today I unfollowed and remove the
(11:07):
connection of a guy. Look back like over three years.
He just said nothing but high W dash and you know, been
listening, reading your content just really inspired and
inspired me to reach out. It's like.
Yeah. No, you did.
You lie, you lie, and I'm just done.
I'm done with the fake. Yeah, you know?
(11:27):
So how are you different? What are you doing differently
with voice AI? We got a special.
Need to know. We got a special thing in there
that was going to take the dash out and it's going to call you
Wes instead of Wes, right? So that's right, you know, it's.
Real. Take the dash out, take the S
out, put AZ and I'm on. No, it's you.
Nice, nice. That's what we do.
(11:48):
No, no, look, AI is, is incredible and can do, you know,
amazing things and horrible things and can speed things up
and can slow things down and canconfuse things as well, right.
But when it comes to AI voice automation and AI voice phone
calls, what are we doing and what are we focusing on?
The goal for us is to work with clients where there's either a
(12:09):
real need, where clients are inbound.
I think inbound is is the absolute Holy Grail for AI
voice, right? And you're thinking, well, hang
on, if I call up, I want to speak to a real human.
Sure. But what are you getting at the
moment for most SAS companies, For most healthcare companies,
you're getting either. For most companies.
Hi, your call is very important to us.
(12:29):
Please stay on the line as our menu has changed.
Like has your menu changed everyday for the last 17 years?
It's unbelievable. Yeah.
Exactly. And why do I care that your
menus change? I don't want a menu.
I want to, I want to just be speaking to somebody and get a
result and move on. And, and I think the other thing
is that, you know, most SAS companies these days aren't even
publishing a phone number anywhere.
(12:51):
So you can't get in touch full stop.
But if you do have a phone number, then you're on hold for
hours, etcetera, etcetera. So what we're working on is
getting rid of that, getting ridof those annoying IVR systems
that you go through, press this,press that, or, and you end up
in some matrix that leads you down a path that you didn't want
to go down or you get stuck. You know, what we're talking
about is you call up, you're speaking to what feels like a
(13:12):
human being. Now, can you probably tell?
Sure. But it's way better than sitting
on hold for two hours and getting through to a a person
that's been sitting there havinga bad day at a call center
somewhere else in the world. Yeah, that's that's not a great
experience at all. And then when you actually ask
the person the question, they don't have that knowledge to
hand, whereas AI does. Yeah, it has that knowledge to
(13:34):
hand. Read it again.
Yeah. So that's your focus is inbound.
Focus, yeah. And mostly inbound we are doing
outbound, yeah, sure. But the outbound as well is
where we can have it for our clients.
It's warm in warm outbound, right?
So let's take an event for example, perfect use case.
You've got a large conference, there's thousands of people
(13:55):
coming. The most nerve wracking time for
an event manager is the lead up to that event that week going.
Well, we, we were told 1000 people are coming, but there
were a bunch of free tickets. There was some charge.
We don't know. So let's just assume maybe 70%
are coming. Maybe it's 80.
We don't know if you could call them three days before the event
and just say, hey, just calling up to see if there's any other
(14:17):
information that you want to know, making sure that you've
got tickets ready. Da, da, da, da, da.
Everything's come through and they can have a human
conversation. So yeah, no, we're all sorted.
Oh, by the way, is there good coffee?
Is there going to be? And it can actually give
information of the event that's useful to the customer.
And it's extremely useful to theclient that is sitting there
going how many people are going to turn up to my event?
(14:39):
And is that better than text? Yeah, I think so.
It's it's interaction. It's back and forth.
It's an actual conversation. If I get a text that says, you
know, just a reminder of next week's event, you know, I move
on. If I get a phone call and they
say, hey, just want to double check you're all sorted for the
event on Wednesday, if there's anything else you need, I can
(15:01):
very quickly just say, yeah, I'mall sorted.
Or no, no, I'm probably not coming.
Or oh look, I'm not sure. And all of that data is then
analyzed, gone through and sent into the client, broken out into
either a spreadsheet or put intotheir CRM so they know exactly
the response they got and the intent behind it as well.
(15:21):
Do people answer? I mean, just before we kick this
off, I got a text from my dentist.
You know, I got a cleaning tomorrow and I confirmed, you
know, I probably wouldn't answer.
I don't. I don't need a phone call, you
know, and they don't need a phone call either, right?
Are you coming or not? Because I mean, because
obviously they'll, they'll give away my spot if I have to
(15:42):
reschedule. Yeah, true.
And then, but then I don't answer.
I mean, I rarely answer my phone.
I, I just, I, I keep getting, I've been getting a call
regularly. So I, I answered it just before
this and there's no, there's nobody there.
So I just put them on mute and go about my business.
And you know, about a minute later they hang up.
So maybe it's it's farming to see if my number's valid or
(16:04):
whatever, but I mean, I get thata lot.
Yeah, well, I don't answer my phone very much and a lot of
people don't answer their phonesanymore.
Yeah, there, there are a lot of people that don't answer their
phones, which is is totally fair.
You know, I think if you're reaching out with e-mail, you're
reaching out with, with, with text message for an event that
they've registered to, you know,they may respond back.
I personally don't spend the time to respond to emails,
(16:26):
emails to me. I go in and I go especially
anything unsubscribe, I actuallyselect the entire inbox, I hit
delete and then I move on with my day with a very quick scan
down for any names I recognize. So that's dead WhatsApp to me.
I use and I look at Whatsapps. We can, we can do WhatsApp
messages as well. But I think that the point of an
actual phone call, especially onthe inbound level, having
(16:49):
somebody to just pick it up, have that conversation, rewire
that through to a human being, if it's relevant, triage it.
And also on a sales point of view to be able to go through
things like the the band framework or any of the other
frameworks for that matter. But on bands, just very simply,
just saying you've got the budget, you got the authority,
you got the need and you got thetimeline.
And then putting a time in an A's diary for a demo, but the
(17:14):
time comes through and it says, OK, Wes is booked in a time.
I got it right that time. Wes is booked in a time and it's
it's. Hey, I'm not saying you're
saying it wrong, you say it right.
I say it right for another Oh good.
I shared an office with the Wes for like so long and I never
thought that I sounded like I'm saying Zed at the end until
you've said it now, but there's so so the the calendar
(17:36):
appointment goes through and it's actually got all of that
filled out. Yes, budget X authority.
Yes, need timeline. So, so again, you're focused on
inbound and I think that's fine.Does the system say that it's AI
or no? Yeah, so we always like to call
it out for us, we call it out. It's up to the client if they
(17:56):
want to say, if they don't want to say anything, that's totally
fine. And a lot of the time you
wouldn't know. In fact, I was joking around.
I'm I'm going to build a an agent.
I better make sure my mom doesn't watch the sales podcast.
But I'm going to build an agent to call my mom and just see if I
can get away with like a 45 minute conversation without her
knowing it's not me. I think I can do it.
I think I can do it because we record our own voices in.
(18:17):
I think, I think I can get away with it.
But mostly that's just going to be because she's talking for 45.
Minutes our parents are trustingour parents are trusting, right?
And they're obviously they're a generation removed so they're
not quite as deep into this. And look, that's why older
people get get snookered. You know, my mother-in-law, she
(18:37):
just passed away a couple monthsago.
My wife is the forget the technical term estate trustee or
whatever for a neighbor she justpassed or her husband passed a
couple years ago now she did. And so we're in her house like
looking things up and my father-in-law was helping her
right. And he's like, can you help me?
(19:00):
He, he couldn't, couldn't do anywork on her computer because all
these notifications come up because everybody, you know,
click here to be notified, you know, of this blog or whatever.
So she would just by default accept all these things.
So, so I'm in there just turningnotifications off, showing them
how to do it. But my my mother-in-law, she had
(19:20):
subscriptions to everything man.And she was a smart woman.
She had been in business for years and that did contract and
stuff for a big health plan out here, but she still fall for
stuff. And that and that that is a
problem. You're right.
And this is this is going to happen regardless across, you
(19:41):
know, every different Ave. of technology, people are fine and
even without technology, they'refinding ways to put things in in
the post and send it out to you within, which is almost now the
easiest way to trick people because they go, well, at least
this is real. It's a piece of paper.
It's like, well, it's not right.And unfortunately those scams
keep going on And and I'm hopingthere's there's more tech that
(20:02):
helps people out to avoid them. But I think on the.
On the AI voice side of things, it's like everything else, you
know, it, it, it sounds like a human, sure, but so does a, so
does an e-mail when you're getting it through or a letter
in the mail, right? And so it is that level of is it
real or not? There's going to be a lot of
education, I think for people torealize is it real or not.
I believe it's always good to call it out.
(20:23):
And definitely for our AI agents, everything we put out,
we say, hi, I'm an AI Voice Assistant calling from X.
Just wanted to follow up about blah.
And then people know, right? Which also takes away any level
of which I find hilarious when people say, oh, I want to test
it out. And they get, oh, there was this
tiny little bit at the three minute mark where I think I
(20:44):
could tell it wasn't perfect. And he's like, have you ever
actually had a conversation witha Rep?
Because no Rep sounds perfect upto 3 minutes.
They're arming and haring or distracted or get delayed or
whatever it might be. So, you know, if you're getting
to 3 minutes or even to three seconds with an AI Rep and not
being, you know, convinced that it sounds great, then you're in
(21:04):
a pretty good spot. Yeah.
So on the outbound, are they making cold calls or is it more
confirming things? Look, like I said, it is is
totally up to the client. So we can do complete outbound
cold call to people. Personally for me, I just find
(21:25):
the success rate, most cold calling success rates pretty
low, right? You get to a point in cold
calling where you, you know, unless your list is absolutely
perfect to people have opted in or whatever that might be, it's
not great. There are obviously laws as well
around B to C, especially B to B.
It's a little bit looser. You're allowed to call B to BB
to C. Don't be calling people at home
(21:45):
that aren't on an opt in list. It's just wrong, right?
And it's not allowed. It's quite simple.
So we don't do anything like that.
If we're talking B to B cold calling out to, to other
businesses that are are, you know, relevant target markets,
that's fine. But call it out straight away.
And same way I would if I'm, I'm, you know, I started out as
an SDR and I would always call and say I didn't have an iPhone,
(22:07):
that's for sure. I'd always call and say 20 years
ago, you know, I'm just calling,I'm a salesperson calling about
X Hope you don't mind. But if you give me 30 seconds,
you know, it's that opt out factor like very clearly giving
them an opportunity to say no, Idon't have time by, you know,
rather than pretending it's not a sales call.
(22:27):
And that's the same that I'd call out for AI, call it out.
It's a sales call or it's a callabout X and I'm AI.
Do you mind giving me 30 seconds?
Always good to add humor in there as well.
If you can make a joke the AI can.
You feel like if you can make them laugh at least you could
might get them on for 30 seconds.
Yeah, hell, I was using Rotary phones when I started calling.
(22:49):
Yeah, that that's a little different from speed dialers.
The I think I at least axes and twangers, you know I.
Rode my horse, honeless breath. Well, it's strangely enough
we're working with a client in Germany at the moment.
And it, it, I almost fell off mychair when they said a lot of
(23:12):
their information still goes outby fax.
And this is 2 days ago I had that conversation.
I said get out by fax. And this is, yeah, we're working
with medical and doctors. And I was like, OK, whatever it
takes. Whatever it takes.
So what does it take to start a Business Today?
So you this is what, 2 years old?
(23:33):
Three years old. None of this business is in
market for three months, but up and running for a year like we
started a year ago. Very how did you find the
inspiration? Like how did you know this was a
good venture? You know, pathway to go down.
Yeah, great question. And I actually coach other
entrepreneurs on this as well ashow do you find out?
(23:54):
Is it a good business? Is it just a passion?
Is it something you're excited about?
For me, it's very much about, you know, does it excite you to
start with first start with that.
Are you passionate about it? Are you interested in engaged by
it? If it were to actually succeed,
would you want that job? Right?
That's a a great place to start.Once you've done that, it's
about, you know, exploring the market and looking at at the
(24:16):
numbers like what, what can thisbe charged for?
Therefore, you know, what's yourprofit margin at the end?
Is there a market there that that can service that and get to
the level of scale that you'd need to to make a profit in a
business like that? And those very simple business
questions. It's just a spreadsheet.
So I actually find one of the most creative spaces.
You know, I love creativity. This is this is my painting my
(24:38):
daughter and I did behind me here.
I love painting. I love art and, and one of the
most creative places I think youcan be is an Excel spreadsheet.
You get to paint the future and go, here's my forecast.
This is what the world could look like.
This is what this business couldlook like.
How can I, you know, and of course, I'm not talking about
creative accounting in in the other sense, I'm talking about
forecasting. Let's dream, let's go.
(24:59):
What if we did have 4 million clients on this?
What if we did have, you know, whatever that number might be,
what does that business look like?
And some businesses you look at and go, oh, if we got thousands
of clients, this business would be a nightmare, right?
And that's just the reality for a lot of businesses.
But they don't do the forecast. They just get to the nightmare
and go, what did I do? And so for me, having had
(25:23):
businesses in the past successful and unsuccessful, I
look back and go this business, when it scales, is a dream.
All right, so why, why AI just think it's here to stay?
I think it's definitely here to say, I think it's definitely
here to say I think in the same way computers, tech, Internet,
(25:44):
all of these things as they cameonline, automobiles,
manufacturing, the whole thing, you know, you look at those,
those evolutions that happen. I think it's in a, it's in an
excitement bubble that everyone's excited about it and
talking about it and no one can get away from it.
In the same way that, you know, plenty of things in the past
were when they first came out and everyone was amazed by the
(26:05):
iPhone and then there's other iPhones and there's other
Samsung and other things. The excitement will die down.
I think the impact, underlying impact will be huge, positive
and negative. I think there's definitely
negatives there. There'll be job losses and other
things, but that happens in every single cycle that we go
(26:26):
through and this one will be no different.
So because it is? Yeah.
So because it is new and there'sa lot of hype, you know, it's
like, do you want to be bleedingedge?
Do you want something to be moremature?
You know, do you think is it riskier to be early or is it, is
it less risky to be early? Yeah, I think early is as good
(26:50):
as late and I think bleeding edge is, is a challenge versus
leading edge. I think for my last business I
was at the exact right time at the right place and we lent into
AI five years ago plus and and, you know, built products around
it back then. I don't think it's bleeding edge
right now. I think where we're at, there
(27:12):
are still problems, but it's it's leading edge with a, you
know, a lower case L that's going to a bigger case L or
there's like a trailing little case B, whatever you might want
to put it. Yeah, there are still
challenges. There are still hurdles.
There are things that fall over,and I think that's fine.
I think we're at a stage where most businesses are wanting to
experiment and lean in, and if they don't lean in now, at least
(27:35):
to learn and test what works forthem, I think companies are
going to fall behind. So you're looking around, you're
staring at your navel, getting sunburn, and you go AI is it?
What's your first move? Did you did you hire an overseas
developer? You know what I did very first,
(27:56):
very first practical move that Idid, I said AI is it, let's find
what communities are out there that are big into AI.
Now I knew I knew enough about AI and enough about product.
I'm not a, I'm not a tech guy. I'm more a product guy.
I got the vision of where I wanted to be and then I can, I
can build a team around that. So I was like, where, where is
that team? You know, where can I find the
(28:17):
right people? And I actually jumped onto a
WhatsApp community here in London, found a bunch of texts
and, and entrepreneurs and, and other devs that were just
chatting about everything, stuffthat I had no idea about, stuff
that I did have an idea about. And I would just scroll through
that group and then look at who's on it.
And I just put community questions out there.
And when certain people came back with really great answers,
(28:39):
I just connected on the side andsaid, Hey, you know, I see
you're on this group, you know, we should chat.
And I just jumped on calls and got to know people.
And then one of those, those people actually said, Hey, love
the idea of what you're thinkingabout.
And that stage, it was actually a different concept within the
voice space, different concept altogether.
And he said, look, I love the idea of what you're talking
about. Let's see if we can work
(29:01):
together. I could help spin something up.
And and he did. And we started working together
for a few months on that until Irealized, hang on, this is more
achievable on a concert conversational level than the
product we were building. It's also a lot bigger scale if
we can get into the business of inbound phone calls and outbound
(29:22):
when when necessary. So that's where, you know, I
said, let's let's rock'n'roll, let's build something.
And we've built that platform. Now we're not building the LLM
behind right. We're we're like everyone else
relying on on big tech that's out there already that have
spent billions of dollars and wecan switch between all of them
as we choose to. So that means very quickly, if
something does change and open IR does something incredible or
(29:44):
Google does something incredible, well, our client
benefit from that rather than ussitting here going, oh, sorry,
we got to do another round of funding to go and chase
something we're never going to beat.
So that's the the position we'rein at the moment.
And what we're really offering is, is how to then build all the
other elements around it. The integrations into those
systems that give you the calendar appointments, the CRM
(30:05):
integrations, you know, being able to transfer calls, all that
sort of fun stuff, actually making it useful and done for
you. So is it safe to say?
I mean, are you kind of buildinga wrapper?
Yeah, a big part of it's a wrapper.
A big part of it's a wrapper and, and, and it's not just a
wrapper to say, hey, this is thesame thing.
Let's just put a cloak on. It looks different.
(30:26):
It's then what can you do with that?
You know, that's different. So take Perplexity for example.
Perplexity is a wrapper, right? And, and it's a huge business.
It's a fantastically successful business.
I use it all the time. It's fantastic.
But they're not building their own LLM.
They're they're not stupid. They're going hang on, all the
LLMS work like this. We could use them to work like
(30:48):
this. And then they've gone and built
perplexity. So, you know, in the same way, I
think most of the businesses in the future are going to be
relying on some way, shape or form on the big models that are
out there and then building on top of them.
Which is is almost kind of like saying, oh, hang on, are you
just an e-commerce business? As in you're like, you're
relying on the Internet and therefore it's like, yeah, of
(31:10):
course I'm relying on the Internet.
That's where my business is held.
That's where everything lives, but we're doing something
different, right? And that's where I think there's
a lot of value for entrepreneursmoving forward as well.
It's not easy. It's not easy to spend something
up. Everyone has this idea of kind
of going 0, but you can spend something up over a weekend and
on Monday you're an entrepreneurand you've got a business.
(31:31):
No, you're not. Like even if you do get a
product away by Monday, which you won't, if you happen to get
a prototype up, it'll fall over pretty quickly under scrutiny.
But if you do manage to build a product, which is great, we all
know the next part is understanding sales and
marketing and, and, and market generation and actually building
(31:51):
a team to go and deliver that. Yeah.
So what do you say to the purists?
You know, because people they want to build the next iPhone,
right, or next Apple kernel and,you know, build it up from its
core versus just build a wrapper.
(32:12):
You know, there's a, where I live, there's like 50 wineries
and one of the big ones is called Wilson Creek.
And I know the founders, the Wilsons and, you know, the
second generation is running it now.
And we have a big balloon and wine festival out here that
coming up this, I mean, next week, two weeks, it's always in
June. And yeah, Wilson Creek, they're
(32:34):
they have a huge balloon shaped like they're almond champagne.
And I just learned a few years ago that they white label that
they don't even make it. Yeah.
So once they're paying actual. Champagne, they can't make it
because it has to come from the Champagne region.
But yeah, and this is one of those things as well, branding
(32:55):
and. Everything but look, we're we're
ugly Americans. We say we'll call it champagne
and say come over here and fightus.
But I. Digress.
So it's. Sparkling.
Whatever. It's sparkling juice.
Yeah. And it's cheap.
Yeah, they sell it. They sell it to the place.
But like you can literally go toCostco or Sam's Club right here
in town and buy it for like 10 or $11.00 a bottle.
(33:18):
But I mean, what they are known for is something that they just
put a wrapper on and market, youknow, now they do make some of
their own wines, but. And and you look at that with
anything. And so you say, I love, I love
Ford Motor cars, right? And you go great, excellent.
So let's break it apart. You know, and once you actually
(33:38):
break it apart, they're just a rapper.
Like they're just, you know, Ford might be a bad example and
somebody's going to get very offended by this.
But, you know, effectively you pull apart a car, a lot of them
are built by the same manufacturers and the same bits
and pieces in the back end mightactually be for doing that for a
lot of the others. That's OK.
But then you take ATV, right? I love Samsung.
No, I love Sony. OK, well, they're the same
(33:59):
thing, right? You know, once we actually break
it down to the factory and wherethose parts came from, I got a
friend that's very, very wealthyin the US that their entire
business. I was so jealous because
effectively, if you break it down, once again, all they did
was take a product from China, bring it into the US, which now
it's going to get taxed. But you know, they they then.
(34:20):
Yeah. Well, everything will get taxed
and then they just sell it, right?
And that's, that's all all they're doing.
And when you, you look at any business, it's like a game of
football. You break it down.
What have you got? Well, you got you got a bunch of
men or women dressed in laundry with a ball trying to get it
over a line. OK, cool.
So that's pretty stupid. Well, it's not once you actually
(34:43):
bring it together, there's so much amazing stuff going on
there, right. But when you RIP anything apart,
and I think that's what people are trying to do with AI is go
that's just a wrapper. You're like, yeah, OK, cool.
And a Baker is just somebody that gets a bunch of flour and
water and makes bread, but the bread's amazing and it's put
into a coffee shop and, you know, or a shop and people go
(35:04):
there and smell it and love it. And they they have their their
bread there, right. So, yeah, this is one of those
things that any business, I think when you pull it apart,
it's very, very simple. It's about how you put those
parts together, how you serve the customer and the experience
that you can give that customer in working with you.
Can you make it simple? Can you make it what they want?
Can you solve their pain point? If you can, you got a business.
(35:27):
Doesn't matter if it's built on the back of flour and water or
AI and you know a bunch of othercomponents brought in to make it
happen. Yeah, I was in the tech space
for years and that's when it dawned on me.
Like you open up the guts of these computers and it's an
Intel or an AMD chip. It's a, you know, Seagate or
(35:48):
Western Digital hard drive and, you know, NVIDIA graphics card
and like. They're just assembling.
Stuff we just put in a differentform factor, you know, had our
own operating system to control the things.
But the guts were the, you know,you'd lay them apart.
You break them apart and lay them down.
You're like, I don't know, is that a Dell?
(36:09):
Is that a gateway HP? I don't know.
Yeah, I had a guy in my podcast who who has built a multi
billion dollar company in the storage space and you know,
we're talking online cloud storage and they couldn't get
hard drives fast enough. They ended up going down to the
local store and just grabbing, you know, consumer hard drives
and we're plugging these things in.
(36:29):
And so effectively they're charging a person on the end to
upload footage to go back to a thing they could have bought
down the street, but it sits in their warehouse instead of yours
and they've got you on a monthlycontract.
It's amazing. But it serves a purpose.
And you know, they then did triple back it up and all those
sort of fun things. So they've got a great business.
I think the the key to any business is how do you say save
(36:53):
a customer time and how do you solve their problem?
And if you can make that experience pleasurable and have
a nice graphical user interface,good service behind it.
In our case, we're done for you service.
So we're not sitting here. Just go ahead, jump on our
platform. It's the same as someone else's
with a new funny face on it. We're actually doing that
service for them, setting everything up, doing the
numbers. We've got a human in the loop
(37:15):
that's checking, making sure that the the AI is not
hallucinating the calls are actually going through correctly
and fixing the prompts as well, which a lot of people jumping in
there thinking they're they're prompt engineers because they
put in how do I prompt engineer into Google or ChatGPT?
So that's that's the case that the team in the back end making
it work smoothly. Yeah.
(37:38):
So you said a year ago you had the idea, but then you've been
live for three months. That's right.
So you just bootstrapped for those nine months?
Yeah, bootstrapped. Yeah, My goal is to not raise.
My goal is just to, to bootstrapthis one out, you know, fund it
myself. But even then I'm, I'm not.
And whether it's a sort of an experiment for me as well.
(37:59):
I did a little bit of business coaching, but when I between the
two ventures found it's not really my passion.
It's not for me as much as I do enjoy it and I think it's
fantastic and and business coaches are awesome.
I'm not one of them. So I I went right, I'm going to
get back in and and play the game again.
But I want to do it from zero because you hear so many excuses
(38:20):
when people go, Oh yeah, well, it's good for some, but I've now
got a family or I've got this or, you know, I could never do
that because XYZ. I thought, well, rather than
just saying, well, it's good forme because I exited the company.
So isn't that great? I want to get in there and and
bootstrap it out. Well, you had me on your podcast
and you yelled at me and made mecry.
So yeah, it's good. You recognize it.
You're not a coach, man. I mean, I mean, you're a mean
(38:42):
coach. So I mean, there's something,
there's maybe there's a room fora mean coach, but I mean, just
go develop some stuff. OK, That's good.
You found your lane. You're going to edit that crying
out, right? You probably.
Good, good. Hang on.
This is your podcast. You get to edit that?
Yeah. So, but for nine months?
Like who, who are you bringing on?
(39:04):
I mean, are the software developers, are they AI experts?
So. Everything in my working so far
has been AI and AI engineers anddevelopers.
And now on the customer success side, where we've got a person
on the customer one one other and myself on the customer
success and the rest is is devs and engineers.
(39:24):
So you know, building out the platform, building out the back
end and then a lot of time even though people go, hey, it's easy
to integrate into HubSpot sales force, all this other stuff that
takes a lot of work just to get things right.
So that's been the main part of our work at the moment.
And I, I think the future development of what I'm building
is going to be sales. It's you know, what I do know
(39:47):
very well from my previous venture is that enterprise sales
motion and and how to put that flywheel in in again.
And you know, you could laugh and say, well, hang on, can't
you just get buzz travel to callthe world?
Like I said, I don't think boiling the ocean with a million
calls out to people in their their mobile phones is is the
answer. I think the answer is still, you
(40:09):
know, smart marketing, good salespeople, people to people
and then using. Bus trail as an engine to be
able to make that more efficientand make the sales people's time
efficient, you know, sitting there just dialing number after
number after number doesn't workregardless.
But if someone's calling inbound, you might have damn
well make sure that someone picks up that phone at all hours
(40:31):
of the day, you know, and, and that means having an AI
available after hours on the lunch break.
You know, the amount of times I've heard of leads going, you
know, unmet and then not called back.
And then you look in the system,you go, why did nobody call back
Sue? Oh, it was a private e-mail
address. So, you know, it's just busy.
And I assumed it was nothing like.
(40:52):
Yeah, well, Sue happens to be the VP of Whatever Wherever and
you missed it. How soon do you foresee having a
set your first, you know, one ortwo or three sales people?
I think within the next few months, yeah, we're we're
looking to hire next month. I'm always looking for
salespeople, but yeah, I think within the next few months.
(41:15):
And like what? What will you have them do day
one? Day one to be honest is, is make
sure they know the tools that they can work on.
So we, we use things like clay, for example, we use HubSpot as
our CRM. So just making sure they're
across the tools. And then to be honest, it's
going to be getting on and calling.
I always like people to start with their network and go, who
(41:35):
do you know, right? Like just give them a call,
practice, jump on the phone, call people, you know, they're
the worst people to call. Just sell them the product and
have a chat. You're going to stuff it up
anyway, so go for it. And then from that point, you
know, we have a database. So there will be cold calls
happening without a doubt for, for SDRS.
But my goal is hopefully fingerscrossed we get our e-mail
(41:58):
marketing correct and our our LinkedIn marketing correct and
we get those inbounds in so thatNIA is spending most of their
time in meetings that are bookedwith Buzztra.
For the outbound, like you say, you have a database like.
Where'd that come from? So we've built up a database
from buying mostly cognism data,so cognism data to our target
(42:22):
market. I think one of the most sort of
obvious spaces for this is insurance companies, insurance
brokers, finance brokers that have inbound that they're
missing because they're on othercalls or doing other things.
And also when people call them, it's it's often the same
question. OK, great.
(42:42):
You know, can I ask you about XY?
Is it? It's prescriptive.
They're pretty much just got a form they're filling out that
can very easily be done and triaged by AI.
So my goal is to target in on that market and and build it
out. Therapeutics has been a space as
well. Health and therapeutics has been
a space that we've had success already and event companies.
Nice. Yeah, that's cool.
(43:06):
That's very nice. So what's that?
I just that's who we're going after.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's good to have it
dialed down because, you know, Italked with people and I don't
know where to start or how to start.
People don't answer the phone. Where do I get good data?
You know, should I call it a cell phone?
Like, am I allowed to call a cell phone?
And do I leave a voicemail? You know, like, what are your
(43:29):
thoughts on that? I, I love leaving a voicemail
personally, I think it, it adds up sort of like a credit, right?
If you leave a voicemail and then you leave another one.
Now don't keep calling and calling, calling.
If they're not calling back, they'll call you back.
Leave it alone. But if you're leaving a
voicemail, you know, 2, maybe three times if it is a specific
person that you know is relevant, you know, once again,
(43:50):
when they say call mobiles, absolutely, absolutely.
I will go for the mobile every single day of the week over a
landline personally. And if I get through to them,
that's fantastic. I'm always calling someone
though that I believe it's a relevant product for if I'm not,
if I'm just calling random people, why would I do that?
And so I want to know my my exact target market.
(44:11):
I want to know my value proposition.
I want to know that it's relevant to that person and the
pain that I'm solving and that Ican call.
And there are there are cool tools out there.
I saw one recently called Glyphic, which is a really
interesting tool about helping you refine that down and get the
exact science on why this particular person wants to buy.
I, I love that sort of stuff, but you can also get lost in the
(44:34):
science. To be honest, if you're talking
about start-ups, I'd just say just find a list, you know, buy
a list. Places like cognism are fine,
great place to start. You can do clay and all sorts of
stuff to, you know, refine things down, but get a list that
you can call and hit the phone and and then you're, you're
really just making sure that you're adding value and on a
(44:54):
sales pitch. For me, it is always starting
with, you know, hey, Mike here calling from Buzz Trail.
I hope you don't mind me callingyou out of the blue, but I think
this is relevant for you. Do you have 30 seconds?
And most of the time people willgo, go on.
You've got exactly 30. Give me your elevated pitch.
Let's go. And then, then they've give it.
They've opened the door and they've allowed you to have the
(45:15):
elevator pitch. You better damn well know your
elevator pitch and you better doit really quickly.
And don't you stay concise? Will you text somebody cold or I
got after voicemail to send a text or send a text I'm about to
call? I've never tried it unless
somebody has connected with me on WhatsApp, then I've
(45:38):
whatsapped and and I don't know how it is in the US, but most
areas, especially through Asia where I lived for five years and
here WhatsApp is everything. In fact, I don't bother
communicating any other way but WhatsApp.
And so that's that's something I've done, but I've never
actually text messaged someone to be honest.
Just out of the blue, do you find?
It I'm wondering like what's that?
(45:58):
Do you find it works? I don't have.
It's not done much to me. Almost nobody leave.
I don't get many inbound calls, cold calls I get a handful.
Almost no texts. But if I have someone's cell
phone, I will leave a voicemail message and send a text right
(46:23):
behind it, yeah. OK, I like that.
And, and you can maybe test the other way of sending the text
first saying you're about to call.
I tell people, I guess if somebody, if I'm just chatting
to somebody, say I'm going to give you a call and I don't have
their number, I'm like, text me before you call or I won't
answer. But I've also learned relatively
(46:46):
recently that and it makes sensethat you know, when you text
from ACRM, the text is green, whereas you know, you text from
your iPhone and go into an iPhone, it'll be that blue
message. So there's more success with
that. But the problem obviously as a
company that doesn't scale, you know, and you, you have no
(47:08):
history. So that's that's a bit of a
catch 22 in that regard. Yeah, it's interesting.
I like it. Yeah.
Following up and thinking back, I do that on WhatsApp if I've,
if I can get somebody like last night I was in a networking
event. My question will always be, you
know, are you on WhatsApp? And they go, yeah.
And I go great, excellent. Let's just, for me, and I was
(47:31):
just say for me, that's just super easy.
I I'd lose emails and, you know,phone calls are more difficult.
Can we just do WhatsApp? Yeah.
And I'll always just send them aWhatsApp and give them a call so
that that works well. But that's, that's a contact
that I've made right? As opposed to hey I just found
this number. So one thing I've been working
on is a little lightweight CRM like for, for I'm calling it the
(47:54):
pre CRM like because I'm, I'm a HubSpot partner and user and
been an Infusoft partner since 2008.
You know, but most of these platforms today, they have
thresholds, right? You, you know, let's say you buy
a list, you get 1000 names, you get whatever 5000 names.
Now you go over your, your threshold, you already have
(48:16):
maybe 9000, you get 2000. Now you're at 11.
Oh, the threshold's 10. Now you pay more.
But out of all those that the 2000 you just bought, there
might be 20 lead, you know, deals that come out of that and
you know, maybe 100 that you would stay in touch with over a
year or so. And so because I built an
(48:39):
automation for doing the outbound and streamlining it and
creating the cadence and the multimedia, you know, assign the
tasks in the call, leave a voicemail, send an e-mail right
behind that that reinforces it, you know, look them up on social
media, complete the task, the task, the next step, you know,
(48:59):
one day, 2 day, whatever your cadence is, but that that
outbound e-mail is cold, right? So like if I acquired a list.
And so how do you protect the, you know, your IP reputation,
your domain reputation from sending a cold?
(49:22):
You know, it's it's a one off, but it's still automated and
it's cold. Yeah.
That's something I'm. Yeah, I like the pre CRM right
now. I have had that challenge where
you go, I don't need all of these contacts in my CRM, but
I've got a load in somewhere to send all the emails out.
(49:42):
Then all of a sudden, you know, we ended up, we started at my
last company at 100. Sorry, we started at free for
HubSpot, as you do. And I was so excited instead of
Salesforce and that was great. But then we ended up spending
120,000 a year on HubSpot and itwas just because the company
(50:02):
grew and now, you know, OK, I was fine.
We were turning over 20 million.It's not the end of the world,
but it, it was a lot of money looking back that we didn't need
to spend because most of the data in there was probably
rubbish. As opposed to just going, let's
just cool our jets, bring it back to where it needs to be
and, and. Go from they're smart man these
(50:24):
all these apps are sticky. Yeah, yeah.
And, and expensive as well, you know, Salesforce, don't get me
started, but that's, you know, ridiculously expensive and the
large companies are spending huge amounts of money, but you
kind of you're trapped. You can't get out.
So look, I think on a business model, yeah, if you can find a
way to help that out and and be a part of that and I love it.
(50:46):
Well, HubSpot is becoming Salesforce.
Yeah, it is unfortunately. And there's a million coming up
through the ranks that are then going to take HubSpot space, so.
Yeah, I'm literally like, I may keep it because, you know, I
started as a partner and I got agreat deal and for me it made
sense because they're great support and all, and it let me
(51:08):
shift costs appropriately and I resold it and made money and
then they changed the partner agreement plan and then they
they keep increasing. But like I literally I made a
list here like if I were to replace HubSpot, but it does a
lot, you know, you start lookingat like lead pages or unbounce
(51:29):
and, and quiz types tools and, and e-mail marketing and like I
password protect something. So I use it kind of as a hybrid
membership site, you know, in a way.
But I'm just saying like, how can I dumb things down?
I want to keep it simpler and simpler and simpler because back
in the day it was cool to be super advanced.
(51:53):
If then you know, you were tagging, you know, on the
e-mail, did you click the, you know, the the top buy now button
or the middle or the bottom, youknow?
And like. We don't even know all that
it's. Too much and, and, and and
especially now with AI as well, there's just too much
information. There's word salad, right?
You just got all this words, OK,give me the one line that I need
(52:16):
to know. And I think we've got to
remember always, you know, people buy from people and
you've just got to spend as muchtime as you can in front of
another human being to sell. And, and for me with any
business, and, and same with Buzz trail, ironically, yes,
we're putting AI agents in there, but it's to get people in
front of people. Because if you can actually free
(52:39):
up your time of your reps so that they're spending more time
on phone calls, on video calls, in meetings, having coffee,
having a beer, you know, that's where deals are done.
It's not done scrolling through data and mucking around with,
you know, waiting for inbound calls or trying to chase
outbounds. I think it's it's about getting
in front of people. Cool.
Well, I'm linking to your LinkedIn and to your site, so
(53:02):
it's buzz trail dot AI, right? That is US.
That is US indeed. And who do you want reaching
out? I mean, is it for bigger
companies right now? Do you want like a real estate
agent? Yeah, yeah.
So anywhere, anywhere from real estate agent up, I think
realistically, you know, it's, it's a matter of do you have a
an inbound challenge and do you have a sales team that can work
(53:24):
with a tool like this? And I'd love to love to hear
from you and for any listeners that want to mention where's not
where's, but maybe just. Put where's?
No, they have to. They have to do the Z.
You got to do the Z. Drop me AZ in a message, find me
on LinkedIn, the links there andand drop me a Wes with AZ and
we'll, we'll chat and I'll, I'lloffer you a better deal.
(53:47):
But yeah, very keen to to work with some of your listeners and
see what we can offer them. But I think it's really about
inbound challenges and obviouslywe can do outbound.
I just, I don't want to promise something I can't deliver.
And I, I feel the, the dream of,hey, we're just going to call
everyone in, in America and suddenly we're billionaires.
(54:08):
It's just not reality. Yeah, Yep.
Cool, cool. Well, all right, Mike, it's all
the way from. You're in London, right?
I'm in London, sunny London. It's actually sunny right now.
Take it while I can. So we're.
Sunny California. I got the palm tree right
outside my window here, You know, come, come visit.
I'll get you some at Wilson Creek Almond Champagne.
(54:31):
Nice, nice. I am in well, one of my, one of
my main reps is in in San Diego and I'm I might be across to
Santa Monica soon for a, a conference.
So we we have a lot of work. I'm in between the two.
I got two daughters in San Diego, so if you come that way,
let me know. Very nice.
I will indeed. Thanks for having me on the
(54:52):
sale. It's always good fun.
Yeah. Man, thanks for coming to the
show. Have a good day.
Yes, you too. OK, so it is buzz trail dot AI,
not buzz kill. OK, no buzz kill here.
So buzz trail dot AI. Mike's a good guy.
I was on his podcast on Monday, so which was 2 days ago.
(55:13):
I like what he's doing. I like his approach, you know, I
like how he opens up and just honest, you know, open and
honest. I like that he's, you know,
declaring or disclosing that he's using AII have used a
similar opener that he is talking about.
I had Justin Michael on the sales podcast not too long ago
(55:35):
and he is a little more aggressive, little more direct
with his outbound. Let me see if I can find that
real quick. What episode was he on?
But Justin calls those PB OS, right?
Permission based openings Justinwas on episode 664 that was
published in July 27th of 24. And if you're on Spotify, I'll
(56:01):
link to that that episode from here.
But Justin is a little more direct now, but he does say, you
know, Justin is in the trenches of cold calling.
And the permission based openersdo still work.
But you need to to know your audience, you to know yourself,
(56:24):
your offering. You've got to be concise in how
you open, how you deliver that punch.
But your tonality, your volume, your pace, all of that matters.
So you can make almost any opener work, but you've got to
own it. OK.
Now Justin's, you know, go listen to episode 664.
(56:45):
I like his approach. I have added that to my
repertoire. I've added that into my
objection handling workbook. That is part of my agenda
setting template as well. You get all of that in the 12
weeks to peak. You get that in the inner
circle, you know, and I do that in one-on-one coaching.
So you need some help with your sales, with your marketing, with
(57:10):
your thinking. You want some clarity, you want
some accountability, and you know, let's talk.
Like I said at the opening, vip.twelveweekstopeak.com, you
can join right away or you can schedule time to talk.
You can do the same thing with the inner circle, right?
Go check that out and we'll see if it's right for you.
(57:31):
OK, but when you join 12 weeks to peak, not only do you get
access to the inner circle for ayear, you get access to
everything else at half price when you renew.
And I do the same with the innercircle.
If you if you join for a year inthe inner circle, your renewal
is half off. But you can kick the tires week
(57:51):
to week for up to four weeks. You can dip your toe in the
water for 1/4. OK, but the annual folks, you
get that 50% off of anything else that I do.
OK, so avail yourself of that. Let me help you grow.
But I guess that I'll put the links in the show notes.
But thanks for listening. I'll go sell something.
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