Outbound Prospecting // How LinkedIn Automation Can Boost Your Sales Fast: HeyReach & Ilija Stojkovski

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello, my friend, and welcome tothe 725th episode of the Sales
Podcast. I'm going to share for the sales
for your host today we have IlyaStoyakovsky.
He is the CRO of a cool company called Hey Reach Out in North
Macedonia. So, you know, I wanted to talk
technology, talking about his tool.
It's outbound. It's focused on LinkedIn putting
in some automation. So doing some cool stuff, I

(00:20):
found him through LinkedIn and just like 2 weeks ago or barely
even. And we had a good chat online
and then a great conversation just now.
And we got into a lot more than just technology and we got into
the humanity side of things. Sorry about that.
And and you know, I've been saying humanity is, is the next
killer app. And he confirmed that all the

(00:41):
way from what is he nine time zones away, you know, in Eastern
Europe, which goes to show humans are the same across the
world. Remember, there's a human on the
other end of the screen. So as we were talking, I signed
up for their affiliate program. So I will include that in the
show notes. Please use that.

(01:01):
It put some nickels in my pockets.
Help me, you know, my my second grandchild, who's also my second
grandson, just turned 2 yesterday.
So, you know, I can buy some presents.
I can buy some in and out if if you click that link and you
still pay the same amount. All right, I am still deep in
some conversations and some thoughts and some analysis on

(01:23):
where I'm taking this. I may still yet take it in a a
similar but different direction.You know, combining my love of
jujitsu sales, marketing, coaching, give you the straight
talk, but just streamlining things.
You know, I've I've made a lot of money by being a product of
the product. Things I recommend are the
things that I use and can can affirmatively and definitively

(01:47):
say, yes, this is good and here's why.
Here's how to use it. So, you know, how do I combine
it? How do I simplify things?
Ilya brings up a good point towards the end of this
conversation. We went almost an hour, so it
confirmed some things. You know, you call it
synchronicity, you call it God, call it the Holy Spirit,
inspiration, intuition, whatever.
But when God give, you know, there's the universe.

(02:07):
When my sound bowl, yeah, whatever.
When my sage, when God gives youa sign, recognize it and listen.
So I got I got several signs on this conversation and we just
wrapped it up. So I'm doing this intro now.
True right away. And so I can publish this right
away so you can benefit right away.
So smart guy, you know, I asked him how he got started, how they
went to market, how they monetize things, how they're

(02:29):
growing, what's working today. What is it?
And but just going through that,you know, he's just a straight
talker. Dropped a few F bombs here and
there. So this one's a little spicier,
but well, you've been warned. It's not crazy, but it's not,
it's not Gary Vee spicy, but it's spicier than they typically
are. But I just went with the flow,

(02:49):
right? So good energy, honest.
And so you're in for a treat. All right, stay tuned with my
toll weeks to peak. Stay tuned with, you know, if
you want to plug in on that, if you want to join the inner
circle. I'm still got a couple things up
there, but I am rapidly and tremendously streamlining my
offerings, group training, private consulting.

(03:10):
I don't even know if I'm going to have on demand courses.
I've got them, but some are, some are older, need to be
updated. They're still valuable, still
effective, but I want to update a couple things.
But I think more and more of us just need accountability, you
know, group coaching, one-on-onecoaching, whatever, but live,
you know, take action, be, be held accountable.

(03:33):
And I need it. I think you need it.
I think our customers need it. And you know, I, I experienced
this way back in 2004. So the company that got me to
move out here to California, I was in Austin, I was travelling
out to the West Coast, had all 18 western states for six months
or a year. I don't, I don't remember
exactly, but most of my businesswas Southern California.

(03:54):
Well, California and Phoenix, I inherited a, a good account
there and I grew that and grew some others, but I was always
out here. And so after I was with them, I
started around June with them. We moved out here in December of
O4 and it was a unique piece of computer technology that was

(04:19):
replacing the desktop. And so at the time the company
had what they called a try and buy.
So it was basically a proof of concept, but they didn't charge
for it. So companies would request it,
we'd box up thousands of dollarsof gear, ship it out and it
would sit there. And I learned an important
lesson. So again, this was, you know, by
the end of 2004, early 2005, I was doing this.

(04:41):
I came up with it on my own, butI made them buy not the gear.
I made them pay for a day of oneof our engineers to come out,
unbox it. Well, literally deliver it,
install it, train the people andthen answer any questions.
One or two days. It was like 1500 dollars, $2000.

(05:04):
So it really didn't pay for the SM ES time, but at least we
offset most of it, right? We, we offset the expense, the
travel, meals, lodging in a little bit of his time.
But what that did was prove thatthe prospect was motivated
because people will tell you, Ohyeah, that looks good.
If you do that, I'll buy it, getthem to prepay.

(05:26):
So when they paid for this, try and buy and behold, they use the
product. Now before we even went there, I
would ask some questions. How do you want to use it?
What does it need to do? You know what, what accessories
need to plug in and be compatible, blah, blah, blah.
So I went through all that and then and in the healthcare
space, I knew, I knew 90% of the, the tools they would need

(05:48):
and I knew it worked in those 90%.
It worked 100% of the time, 60% of the time works 100% of the
time. But so it was no risk for me.
So the concept was, you know, pay for this will come out
we'll, because it wasn't that their people couldn't figure it
out. It wasn't that hard.
But it's just when you're busy and I don't want to spend time
looking at manuals and calling the help desk, whatever, you

(06:10):
know, if somebody is there holding your hand.
And I've told the story before about having had my sister spot
me, you know, when I was in highschool, you know, she's like, I
can't lift that weight. And it's like, you don't have to
lift the weight. You have to lift a little bit of
weight if I get stuck towards the end.
And so having somebody there help me a get in the GMB, go at
it hard, get the most out of my time out of that that effort.

(06:33):
So when you have a spotter like that, you, you do more when you
have somebody waiting on you, you're going to show up, you're
going to focus, OK, when you're paying for that person, you're
really going to do it. So that's what I mean by, you
know, having private consulting,coaching, small group coaching,
you're just, you're more accountable.
OK. So invest in yourself.
And, and we talked about that aswell, even though, you know, I

(06:55):
had him on because he's the CRO of a tech company, but we cover
a lot of bases on this. All right, So you're in for a
treat. And like I said, please, I'll,
I'll put my, my affiliate link in here.
So if you like it, click that they have a free trial.
They have three different pricing levels, but I think
you'll like it. All right, So do that and then
come back and listen to this episode, this interview with
Ilya Ilya Stoykovsky. I got it right.

(07:17):
I got it right pretty good. You got it right, man CCRO of
Hey Reach. You had me at Hey, first name.
Indeed you did. I got you with that, huh?
I got you with that. Hey, first name.
Indeed you did. I mean, this is, I mean, I'm
going to explain a little bit, but yeah.
No, go ahead, we'll jump. Right in well, listen, like a

(07:38):
lot of people are the self proclamated about being experts
in a specific field and working connects big companies like
speaks like companies like X Google, X whatever.
And now we're like, how does youbeing a part of a great company
working at the lowest level job possible make you an expert on

(07:58):
anything except for having an experience in that company,
unless you were on AC level executive.
So what it it all came down as ajoke.
And we were like, well, we run aoutbound tool.
Like you have to be creative a little bit, right?
So then one of my colleagues actually says, well, it will be
great if someone had like, hey, you got me at a first name.

(08:19):
Like is a variable inside of your headline.
And I'm like, Oh my God, this goes on my headline.
Whatever happens, I don't even care about this.
So one thing led to another. Yeah, it was always there.
Have you seen the movie Jerry Maguire with Tom Cruise?
Yeah. You know you had me at hello.
Yeah, that's the one. That's the reference.

(08:40):
Well you know I sold to Google so you know I've eaten in their
cafeteria and hit their snack bar, so maybe I should put that
in my bio. Well, if it defines what type of
person and professional you are,which it doesn't lend, yes, go
for it. I'm a professional eater.
Visit I, you know, I have meetings.
I eat everything you give me. I'm very polite.

(09:02):
I mean, I was told we have to win friend and friends and
influence people, right? We, we want to be known, liked
and trusted. So you know I eat your food then
you like me. Yes, like a proper googler.
I'd see. You should definitely do that.
All right, so yeah, you are. We're talking about geography.
I think you're the 1st guest from North Macedonia.

(09:24):
So you know we're breaking down barriers.
Man, that's cool, but cool. But hey reach so you're the CRO
for hey reach 6 million in ARR in 23 months and y'all are doing
you know your your cover photo here, 10X your LinkedIn outreach
without scaling your team. Why do I need to do that?
That isn't LinkedIn all API fanatics I'm hearing about.

(09:49):
What was it? Seamless just got shut down.
Another company aware they're shutting down this month?
Polo. Should we be playing games with
LinkedIn? How?
How can I be safe using your software?
Are you just going to blow me up?
Well if we were blowing up things then we would not have
skills like. That's a contradictory 1 to
another No, I mean. Kind of, I mean, you can blow up

(10:12):
for a minute like aware people were like use it.
I got I got a Notion app open right now.
This guy's like, here's the cadence for LinkedIn.
I spent 30 minutes on Aware and now I go and I'm connected with
Alex Boyd and he's like no longer functioning as of August
31st. So you can kind of blow up for a
while and then you can blow up, you know, just being
argumentative. It's true.

(10:33):
No, no, it's true. It's completely true.
But let's break it down a littlebit.
I mean, on a very high end. If you look at this as a end
consumer, which is not inside ofthis game, which is 99.9% of the
world, you will go and the firstimpression will be, my God,
something serious happens. Seamless is no longer a foul on
LinkedIn and Apollo is no longera foul on LinkedIn.

(10:54):
And this is like, Oh my God, like every LinkedIn account out
there now, it's in jeopardy justbecause they try to generate
some extra pipeline. That's all there is.
But then again, if you just break it down a little bit,
Apollo and Seamless and Ocean and every other bend, it's not
out of business. Basically, they're still
operational. They're still having a whole
bunch of related LinkedIn things, but this is the first

(11:17):
time actually LinkedIn making a statement.
Hey, you cannot do many things on my platform.
So when it comes to the LinkedIndata, you'll have essentially 2
things, right? It's first the data set, meaning
the data that LinkedIn holds, owns, etcetera, etcetera,
basically their biggest asset. And then you have the
automations upon that data. What we do as a tool, we do not

(11:41):
play around with the LinkedIn data in the 1st place.
We play around with the automation, meaning the
orchestration of how you should properly utilize on LinkedIn
data. Now if you are thinking, well,
LinkedIn is not the data, it's asocial platform for social
engagements. Oh my God, you are so wrong.
Just because like if that was the case, then why is LinkedIn

(12:02):
selling sales navigator licensesto basically to people to
extract data from their database?
So let's be honest here, and let's be real, no social
platform in the world is a social platform.
It's just an element of their core business.
What every social platform down to the core is.
It's a data warehouse which consists of data points for

(12:26):
every prospect, meaning every account that was ever created on
their platform is what is differentiator between LinkedIn
and like they sell their data points throughout different
shapes and forms such as sales navigator, such as paid
advertisements, such as boost your posts and so on and so
forth. So they are in market for

(12:47):
selling data not outside of their environment, but inside,
inside of their environment. And then you have, and by the
way, you have the recruitment recruiter subscription that
LinkedIn also says for $1000 permonth.
So let's be honest here about how LinkedIn are first
perceiving themselves. How are they making revenue and

(13:07):
how are they getting pissed off if somebody's doing things on
their platform? Because, and I'm sorry, I'm
going to give you a larger, longer response over here.
But then again, like the biggestasset that LinkedIn holds is
actually the LinkedIn profiles, meaning the data.
Why? It's because it's the only self
updated database in the world. No other platform, not Apollo,

(13:29):
not zoom info, not your CRM, no other platform.
It's getting self updated. Meaning your people will never
come to you to say hey Vas I've just changed my job.
No, they will go on LinkedIn. That's why LinkedIn is self
updating itself which makes LinkedIn database the most
valuable database in the world along with I mean when it comes

(13:50):
to B2B obviously not with I wantto buy products from Tamil like
you can find that on Instagram. Long story short, they are
looking to protect on the data. The bigger players which got
banned or removed are where basically they were utilizing on
the LinkedIn data at a larger scale.
I'm no technical expert, I've never worked there.
I don't really want to do anything.

(14:11):
But all of these platforms actually hold LinkedIn URLs,
meaning links to people on LinkedIn.
So that means that they actuallystore partials or on or parts of
the LinkedIn data. And at some point LinkedIn
actually said, well, listen, youcannot do this anymore.
Or if you are doing this, I meanI cannot be seen together with

(14:31):
you because I'm trying to sell on the sales navigator and
you're selling your own subscriptions under your
platform. So what we've done is, I mean,
without giving out speculations,no more because I've thrown a
lot at the very opening. But then again, The thing is,
what happens to the rest of it? The rest of the tools were not
focused on the data or selling on the data, but actually on the

(14:53):
orchestration of the data. Because, well, what good is to
have a lot of data if there is no proper orchestration?
And what point is there to have a great orchestration if you
don't have a great data set? So those things have to align
one to another. So I'd like to think at least
that we are in this Gray area where we basically, I mean

(15:14):
LinkedIn is aware of us. I mean it's a $7,000,000 company
actions are being executed, brand recognition is happening,
it's happening on the platform, on other platforms and so on and
so forth. But then again, like why we are
not doing that because we are helping LinkedIn to prove a case
that they should be perceived asa data set that should be
purchased through sales navigator licenses and executed

(15:35):
through automation tools. I mean, for last but not least,
LinkedIn has this thing that says pay me to send emails to
people you are not connected with.
I mean, they are actually doing the same thing.
It's like whether it's somebody else is doing the same thing
with their date. Right.
But isn't the argument, I mean it's, it's their database, it's

(15:56):
their website. So they can do with it as they
please. You know, are you, are you
working around the system? Are you working within the
system? Is there any risk?
Because I'm not quite sure how your software works.
I've, I've dabbled with a few ofthem.
There's, there's so many, the the tech stacks that I'm reading

(16:19):
from some of these influencers boggles my mind.
I mean, guys are using 4 to 6 to8 CRM, data enrichment, cold
e-mail, on and on and on. I'm like, what?
What's managing this stuff? Most commonly it's going to be
the agencies managing this stuff, but yeah, we will get to
that. Part.
But it is it needed? Does it have to be that complex?

(16:41):
Are we are we doing stupid shit just because we can?
Or is it needed? That's, I don't really have an
answer to that question, but this is what I'm going to tell
you. So what's happening currently in
the outbound world is well it's inbox saturation.
What that means is basically thesame audience is receiving shit

(17:03):
ton of emails from various vendors or various offers all
around the globe. That's what the Internet
actually brought to, especially on the US market.
That's what it brought to your market.
I mean, we do not get so many offers and so many emails.
You guys do that. Why?
Because you are the most attractive market into the
world. So you have all of these guys

(17:23):
trying to make a business with U.S. companies by doing that.
Like obviously bunch of tools emerged such as instantly for
e-mail sending or landless or smartly which made the
scalability of reaching more people cheaper, right?
So there is no technical objection for you to reach out
to hundreds of thousands of people in a month without that

(17:43):
costing you a fortune, right? So basically you just purchase
domain, purchase inboxes and youstart sending emails now, but
because like the saturation actually happened, you have the
same legitimate businesses who want to do business with
specific companies and they needto do business and they're
relevant for each other, but they cannot get in touch one to
another. The reason being is because the

(18:05):
recipient is obviously immune toreceiving emails and it's immune
to receiving cold calls because cold calls are also saturated at
the same time. So numbers are saturate and then
again, you have like this place where you need to be where, OK,
cool. So what are the other available
channels for a sales Rep to actually reach out to a specific
business and say, hey, listen, we should do business for XYZ

(18:27):
type of reasons. And This is why I think like we
are the greatest fit, right? So now people are exploring
other channels on how to do that.
This is where LinkedIn comes into play, right?
Because that's the next like best channel when you go through
cold calling can e-mail like thetraditional ones.
What's the next best? Well, it's going to be LinkedIn
because it's BT now. This was like the LinkedIn

(18:47):
Outbound was always there. It was never formalized in a
form of a tool that can actuallydo things.
And this is where the like the whole thing emerged for LinkedIn
orchestration. And like LinkedIn Outbound
emerged as a concept in an orchestrated way using a third
party unauthorized LinkedIn toolsuch as Hereage.
Now as things are developing andother people are, our people are

(19:10):
looking for solutions, etcetera,etcetera.
Now with as a hate rich tool, asa LinkedIn tool, as hate rich,
we've noticed this gap that people are doing a lot of
emails, but they cannot follow up on LinkedIn on those a lot of
emails. Now let's merge and orchestrate
the whole thing if we can. Now this is where things are
getting messy and complex. Why?

(19:30):
Because you need to connect multiple tools to work with each
other. And that's why you have on the
uprise, you have tools like Zapier make NA10 who actually
build out all these tools and the emerging technology of AI is
coming into play where they can understand a bunch of tools
together and start sending messages on other people to
speak fast. That's a little history of

(19:53):
outbound, if you will. Like modernly outbound or live
view on it, by the way. Yeah, it's how do we reach
people right you. Want my set?
Sorry to jump in. Sorry to jump in.
You want my best response? Like because I was on a life
event and people ask me. OK, Elia, you talk about this
inbox situation that is happening everywhere, where how

(20:14):
can I reach people? And I'm like in their postal,
like in their postal, like in ontheir postal address, like on
their address, on their actual address with with the envelope
like the old fashioned way. Yeah, yeah, I send calls.
I mail my book. Why?
Because it's the least saturatedteam books that they have, so
it's basically their utility bills and, well, nothing.

(20:37):
Nobody even sends like happy birthday gifts, cards and happy
Merry Christmas. So but even that, how do we
reach them like right now, whereare you?
Are you in an office? Are you at home?
Are you in a Co working space? Where?
Where are you? Yeah, I'm actually in my office.
So basically you need to strategy in regards to this one.
Send one at home if you can use that information.
A Home Office or a corporate office.

(20:58):
No, it's a corporate office. OK, no, but I mean that that
since COVID that has become rarer.
Yeah, of course. A lot more hybrid work from
home. It's hard to even find.
Like I don't answer my phone. It's rare that I answer my
phone. I got, I, I get emails, but I, I
look at them skeptically, you know, I'm, I'm hovering over

(21:21):
delete, delete, delete, then OK *** then I'll come back.
Oh, immediate boom, boom, boom. Come back to him later.
Yeah. DMS mostly spam bad pitches.
You know we were talking before we hit record about just the
lack of humanity. I mean people.
AI is decent, EI is a good overlay or or starter for some

(21:44):
content. I mean most people are terrible
at content. Most people are terrible at
speaking. Most people are terrible at at
just connecting with a human being.
So AI is a start. But still every like I get
pitched every day for the podcast.
Hi Wes, you are doing great workat Wes Shaffer Dash, the sales,
whisper Dash the sales podcast. I really liked your last

(22:05):
interview with Ilya where you talked about LinkedIn
saturation. Anyway, I would like to
recommend Joe Blow delete. No, OK, this whole AI thing,
this whole AI concept like LED people to believe that if they
can over personalize and the research that they can do on

(22:28):
specific people that this will lead to business.
That was the groundbreaking thing that happened one year
ago. And this is where tools like
Clay emerged like ChatGPT. I mean, ChatGPT predominantly is
used in this part of the world for hyper personalisation of
data. So basically get as much as you
can about West, get those information, structure them into

(22:50):
a wine liner. And that's a whole prompt.
And basically mention something about the post to create the
bridge. And once you create that bridge,
well, pitch them XYZ type of service.
Now what people are starting to realise is that it's not about
how big you can go because like it was, I mean that was never
the case. That was never that like there

(23:11):
was this great thought that it was like if you reach out to
100,000 people and you managed to generate business for 0.01%,
that's like, I don't know, 10 people.
Would you consider that to have a great success?
And remember like this 10 peopleactually brought you half a
million of dollars, right? Is that a great success?
And people will be like, of course it is because I've
generated X amount of money and well zero, I mean X amount of

(23:35):
the money was invested. So the ROI is awesome.
But then again, like you really care about that.
You pissed off like 99.9 times or whatever the name is.
But basically everyone like because not pissed off like most
people don't even see that. But from the ones that I did
time, I can assure you they werenot happy because if they were,

(23:56):
they would have been fitting into those 10 people.
So scalability is not a solutionto grow a business.
It is like a way of thinking it's way of doing things.
But is it the right way? Probably not.
Now what people did was essentially I have this option
to scale a lot, but I need hyperpersonalization to make it
relevant. Like it seems like I did my

(24:17):
research on that person. So that was the very beginning
and people were amazed by it. But then again, we've again came
to another place where a lot of these people are receiving the
same emails because it's the same fucking prompt, right?
Everyone is using the same, it will always be the same output.
So now people are receiving the same personalized emails.
So now you're thinking, well, wedid a scale, it worked.

(24:41):
Now it didn't work. Now we did a personalization.
Now it worked. Now we've created another
saturation, which is hyper personalization on a bigger
scale. And now you're thinking, well,
what's next? So the what's next is obviously
a proof of concept that this can, this can be a spike, but it
can never be a business. It can never be a lifetime.
A lifetime can always be two people meeting with each other,
understanding each other's needsand deciding whether this is the

(25:03):
solution. When there's this is there is a
problem and whether there is a solution that can solve that
problem right now and whether they are willing to invest money
and time into it. That's all there is.
Now what people are not doing and they should be doing is
using the AI for relevance. Why would my offering or my

(25:24):
solutions to problems would be relevant for us, for his
podcast, for his business, for his agency, for his whatever,
right? And this is where the deep
research will clean up on the data.
So instead of sending 100,000 ofemails, now you're limited to
100 emails, which basically did a deep research and said, if

(25:44):
there are chances that Vasis, I would be actually interested in
your offer. And this is where you don't need
to have to personalize. You just need to go with
something like, hey, Vas, I saw that you are pissed off at hyper
personalization, but Ilya actually said about relevance.
We have a relevance tool. Would you like to try it out?
That's a generic message with a small personalization,
obviously. But then again, it has to start

(26:06):
with relevance. And then we communicated inside
of like the album copy, meaning the message, whether it's
LinkedIn, e-mail, call, call, you choose the channel.
Like it doesn't make any difference.
I like it's, it's going to be obviously the situation of the
inbox going to take an effect, but still it will be hyper
relevant and that's what people are missing these days.
Yeah, I mean, spike is a good word.

(26:26):
I mean, people just jump from one to the other.
I know a guy. It's big in the space.
And I guess last week ChatGPT 5 came out and so all the cool
kids were talking about how disappointed they were and
ChatGPT 5. And I'm like, why does it really
matter? Let me tell you a funny story.

(26:47):
So basically when you're building out a product, there is
a lot of feedback, right? So people who are happy with it,
people who are not happy with it, people who really want to
see you do good, people who really just hate you for what
you did. That's going to happen for every
business and it's happening inside of our product.
So at some point, like there wasthis trend that voice notes on
LinkedIn, actually when you record a voice note, people

(27:08):
actually respond to it. So increases the the response
rate. So on your mobile phone to me,
for instance, you can record a voice note and say, Hey, Leah,
let's chat about XYZ, right? So then a lot of people started
asking us and we were a small start up back then.
We could not have just developedthings for the sake of it.
Like we were not that experienced, if you will.

(27:30):
And it became a blockage to stopsome to close some deals because
people came to us and said, Hey,you guys don't have voice notes
like these guys have voice notesand we are going to go with them
just because of the voice note. And I was like, well, listen,
cool, I'm going to pay for the subscription that you need to
pay to that. And this is where I get your
attention, right? And you're going to do what?
I'm going to pay for the subscription on the other tool

(27:51):
that you want to use. Would that be cool?
And I'm like, yeah, sure. Why?
I want you to come back to me and tell me, OK, you are sending
voice notes. I'm pretty sure that you will
hit high reply rate because it'sa new form of communication.
People are not sending. So it's like, what the fuck is
this? Let me hear that out.
So people will hear your message, but you don't know how

(28:11):
to explain yourself 15 seconds unless you are so profound or
you have done it so fast that you can make the most out of it
in 15 seconds because that's theintention of that.
And 2nd, I want you to tell me of the all the people who
responded, how is that affectingyour business?
So basically, OK, I've sent a voice note, this person
understood me and now we are in business just because I've sent

(28:32):
that voice note and like the person actually said, you have a
deal. Awesome.
I paid for the subscription, I don't know, $500 or something
like that. They started blasting voice
notes. Obviously a very terrible voice
note, like a bad mic, bad everything bad, like accent.
Let's be honest, I'm from Eastern Europe like you,
obviously I have an accent and II'm not ashamed of it.

(28:53):
I have a weird name for you guys.
Not ashamed with that. It is what it is.
But then again, you cannot expect someone to be perceptive
and say, Oh my God, yes, I don'tcare about any of those things
just because you've sent me a voice note, I'm going to do
business with you. So one thing led to another.
Their plan actually failed. The spike is the trend is
already gone. And now like they are a customer

(29:13):
over here and they always like remember that somebody else paid
for their subscription. So you see my point?
Like everything blows over unless it's conducted properly.
Yeah, yeah. And I see like I'll send, I send
videos. I wish it was better like you.
You can't do it natively in the app with like navigator or

(29:35):
LinkedIn. You got to make a video then
attach it. They don't make it easy.
But but I send real videos like I, I signed up for this woman's
thing and I got it on things on Instagram and I got a an e-mail
or message, but it's generic. But most people don't catch it
because she doesn't say my name right.
So I know it's a generic thing. Hi, thank you for your interest.

(29:59):
It's so good to hear from you. And I'm like, whatever.
The marketing teams actually made that fuck that fuck up
inside of their our inboxes because every tool that you use
every everything like that, you sign up to now you're in
somebody's funnel, you are in somebody's list and you're
somebody's stuff like that. And you now start to receiving

(30:21):
generic messages that really don't really associate for what
you've signed up in the 1st place.
It's just like a. Paper, they'll hold up like a
blank white board and then, yeah, then your name will be
drawn on it. But it's all AI, you know, It's
like, whatever. Yeah, so because the top of the
funnel sign ups actually startedgetting saturated again, so

(30:42):
people started getting creatives.
Hey, like, yes, this is me. Oh my God.
You've never received an e-mail from a marketing team.
Now you have it. I have your name over here.
Let's chat now that thing is notworking because obviously like
it's it's gone. So it's like nobody cares about.
I put fake names on there like funny names so I know if I get
it and it's like it's not real but something else.

(31:04):
I tell tell this every time I I have a dash in my name W dash
and then I just added my jiu jitsu ghee as well.
So this will be interesting to see how long it takes to
propagate because I still get messages.
I worked with a company in 2006.I got a call last week with that
company name and I haven't used it since like 2007.

(31:26):
But with that dash in my name. I get emails, messages hi W
dash. I'm like OK, I know it's scraped
but man, I most of the messages I get.
So LinkedIn is powerful. It seems like it is the source
of the vast majority of marketing people, agencies or

(31:47):
whatever cause so many of my messages are hi W dash.
I mean, people are using like the like, obviously there is the
technical mess up between what am I using and how am I
understanding to make this thingcloser to a human language.
This is for the I will help and clean up the names and clean up
the understanding and stuff likethat.
But then again, LinkedIn will bepowerful just because like

(32:09):
behind that outreach, there is afirst name, last name and a
company and a whole bunch of informations.
It's like giving out like cards,right?
So instead of just giving out cards to an event that you've
visited, you are just giving outdigital cards by presenting your
LinkedIn profile. And that's why people like to
click on that profile, like to see who they are before they

(32:29):
respond to the messages. One thing that you can now there
is this thing on LinkedIn album.So basically I'd like to call it
too soon versus too late becausetoo soon on LinkedIn can be
really I'd like to call this theAmerican way because Europe like
don't don't doesn't talk like this.
But you guys, hey, This is why Idon't like here is the link and
let's meet. Like that's all there is like

(32:49):
more straightforward approach. Europe like you probably get
reported spam just because you've sent sent a link to meet
Nevertheless, So the too soon approach, it's not respecting
LinkedIn on what they are in a segment outside being them for a
database. They're a social platform at the
end of the day, right? So because of that, like don't

(33:09):
treat like the channel itself, like communication channel.
It's not e-mail, it's not cold call, it's not like nobody
invited you into that inbox, butthey the people actually gave
permission when they clicked on that accept button.
So that's why you have to be a little bit respective like
towards towards the ATM acceptance and not be spamming.
So too soon will be Hive as YouTube podcasts.
We have this great LinkedIn tool.

(33:31):
Here is my calendar link. Let's discuss.
That's too soon, but then again,LinkedIn has too late thing and
a too late thing, which is something that in probably in
the US you also get like spankedfor it.
But in Europe like it, you'll begreatly appreciated for it if
you go with something like, Hey,Baz, what's the weather like in?
Well, where are you based by theway?

(33:52):
California. What's the weather like in Los
Angeles, in San Francisco and whatever and or what's the best
restaurant to visit in San Francisco?
Now the question is like, if youdo that in in US, like you're
scared of me. Like what the fuck?
Like nobody asked me this, like go away.
And if you go in Europe, Oh my God, this is sunny in Italy and
so on and so on. So it's a cultural logical
thing. Then again, like if you start

(34:13):
off with that, the question is, let's say best case scenario,
people actually respond, yes, Ohmy God, the weather is great.
How are you going to turn that conversation into a business
related conversation? So basically you are ambushing
people just to get to slip into the room box and get them
talking on unrelated topic, right?
So there has to be a sweet spot between I'm going to slap you

(34:35):
with a calendar link and what's the weather like or what's the
best restaurant to eat in XYZ region where so in that place.
So the sweet spot in my opinion on what was tested obviously
throughout the period of time was essentially thank you for
accepting a connection request. Obviously you didn't have to do
that, but you still you did. So thank you for that.

(34:56):
To introduce myself, my name is Bess and I'm a veteran.
My name is Ilia. I'm not going to take you for an
example. My name is Ilia.
I'm the CRO at Hereich. And Hereich is essentially a
LinkedIn tool that enables people like you, your company,
or you or you personally to makethe most out of LinkedIn.
Is this something worth exploring, right?

(35:17):
Because regardless of how you'veended up with the littlest we
got regardless, like if you havean estimated relevance, you
still don't know one crucial thing, which is, is it timely?
Is it, is it now the right time to solve this?
Because my solution covers, I don't know, 5 problems, right?

(35:37):
This solution, I mean, here is atool as solution for five
problems in the, in whatever segment in whatever audience.
So every business has that. But then the question is, like
the people that I'm going to reach, are they willing to make
the next step? And that next step is actually
investing time in terms of like changing the operations that
they're doing for my case, obviously.

(35:58):
And are they willing to spend the money on it, right.
And that's something that you have to discover in the form of
a question W approach, pre qualifying question.
Hey, this is what it is. This is the problem that we are
solving. Is this worth exploring solving
right now, right. And that's all there is to it.
So your platform, it's, it's automated, right?
It's, it's doing the outreach. I see your your if then kind of

(36:23):
variable right? Campaign start connection
request accepted not accepted one day like post in mail.
So this is this is running automatically.
Want me to share a screen and walk you through like a little
bit or not like that's not sure.Yeah, OK.
Because I'm just trying to understand, you know, I've been,
I've been big in the CRM space for decades.

(36:46):
And I'm honestly torn right now.So many tools have automation
and so, and we're living in various platforms like this.
So you know, where, where does the CRM come into play?
And, and do do we need a big, you know, multi $1000 a month

(37:08):
HubSpot Enterprise Oregon, can we get away with, you know, a
$50 pipe drive and, and Zapier, you know, and, and have tools
like yours automating the key things.
Maybe you for LinkedIn, maybe there's another tool for
Instagram where I don't know, another tool for this.
And then pull them in once they raise their hand now, boom, put

(37:31):
them in the CRM, create a pipeline stage 1 or whatever.
And now I can start building predictability and road maps and
whatever else. That's CRMS are here to stay and
whether they should cost for. Sure.
Not. Sure, but like if I'm dealing, I
mean the large enterprise you'regoing to need, you're going to
need the sales force in the in the HubSpot and whatever.

(37:52):
But that that the typical SMB 50employees, 100 employees
solopreneurs, you know, 5 employees, do they need HubSpot?
Can they do an active campaign and entreports a go high level?
Or just a simple Google sheet, which is free I mean.
Yeah, that's that's a little rough.

(38:13):
But it is. There's not enough I mean, but I
mean I get your point. I think you need a little more
in the Google sheet but I'm leaving more and more towards
you don't need. Well, depends on the number of
leads you get and how far. No no no no no.
Let me stop it right there. Inside of Google sheet you have
this thing called Google scripts.
So if you are using multiple AP is you can pretty much connect a

(38:36):
Google sheet to various other tools out there and they will be
executed in specific timeframes.Schedules, absolutely.
So, but it's, it's like I use aniPhone instead of, you know,
yeah, you can like Microsoft because I'm willing to pay a
little more to just have shit running.
Of course. So.

(38:58):
Here is the thing, if you have aSierra right?
And what's a typical Sierra, youbasically have a shit ton of
contacts, some of them verified,some of them non verified, some
of them with touch points, some of them without touch points.
And then you have deals, people who are we are actively engaged
whether we are going to close ornot close or whatever it is that
we are going to proceed instead of the next step of the funnel.

(39:21):
In my opinion, the best data source in the world will become
for bigger companies, obviously they're CRMS.
That's the starting point. You don't really need external
tool to buy data for old outbound.
Start with your CRM first. Clean it because let's be
honest, 90% of the companies have dirty data under their CRM,
especially when. People.

(39:42):
Everybody has dirty CRM. Everyone has.
So first clean up your CRM. That's number one.
Second, segment your CRM, meaning do you want want to talk
with people who visited the pricing page or do you want to
talk with people who try to schedule a meeting, but the
meeting never happened. So segment your CRM after the
clean up. Third, reach to your CRM and

(40:03):
this is where tools come to playbecause what HubSpot for
instance is offering, I don't know about Salesforce.
I'm no Salesforce expert. I'm no HubSpot expert by the
way. But then again, what HubSpot is
offering is for extra money. You can get there for 3000 plus
dollars. You can get their subscription
that will open up like a sequencer to basically send out
emails. Now, as we've discussed, emails

(40:25):
are saturated. Now.
Then again, how do you justify an extra investment to pay for
something that is not going to be seen in a first place?
So this is where for the same money that you can pay, you can
get. And by the way, e-mail when it
when executed, it cannot be executed by their primary domain
at a larger scale because you jeopardize of marking your

(40:45):
domain as going to spam 24/7 andyou don't really want to do
that. So you have to do this with fake
similar domains to reach out higher audience, right?
And then again, this is where you need tools and then you
basically get tools that do exactly that and they integrate
with your CRM to handle the responses or to handle like the

(41:07):
activity that happened on these tools.
So basically you don't really need the premium.
You need a free subscription on HubSpot or whatever, like the
$50 one to cover on the basis. And then again, you need two
other tools without any AI and personalization by the way,
inside of the mix to send out your messages that you want to

(41:28):
do e-mail is saturated. You have to do that at a
slightly bigger scale with with different domains.
This is where you get an e-mail tool for that.
And the second thing is you get a LinkedIn tool for that cage
preferably. And basically you just start
sending LinkedIn engagements andLinkedIn messages.
So and then you lock that back in inside of your CR that.

(41:51):
About, I mean, sometimes people,I mean they'll opt in for a
contact us or a white paper or blog or something, you know, but
even that like I'm torn. It seems like it's more
effective nowadays to just keep stuff simple, run ads, drive
them to a demo. But I mean, like, what if I,

(42:12):
what if I don't have a demo, right?
Like I don't sell software myself.
I saw other people's software. I'm an affiliate, you know, So
for non SAS companies, you know,if somebody opts in, I can
e-mail them that's going to landin their inbox because they they
requested it, especially if I doit right and it's from my main
domain. You requested I send a
confirmation, you confirm. Now I want to drip on you from

(42:35):
my own system, you know, So what, what's that play?
What's that text stack looking like?
Because I'm looking at your site, I don't see a blog.
Was it under, Oh, you got a blog?
So under resources. But like, you don't lead with
it, right? A lot of people get to get the
blog, get the newsletter read, you know, you're cutting to the
chase. Here's how our stuff works.
Boom, try it for free. Oh, OK.

(42:57):
Well, that's, I mean, that's a positioning kind of on a
marketing thing. So basically what we've decided
is you have so many resources out there that nobody's even
reading things like Google is being replaced with replaced
with ChatGPT for people to get the response that they need.
I actually do that. I don't go through blocks to
read out things. Somebody else should do this to

(43:19):
get me that response. And I wanted yesterday, not
today. It's too late, obviously now,
that's why the the positioning is about this is what we do.
And if this makes sense, this iswhere you start.
And if you need extra information, well, just find
yourself around or just ask an LLM module to actually tell you
what This site is all about. So that's like the adapting to

(43:39):
the to the to the new user behavior.
That's why everyone starting offwith blocks and user testaments
and stuff like that. Do you really people just click
on that? If you have some sort of
tracking, just check on the numbers in Google Analytics.
You'll see. Now the second thing, it's about
the, well, why don't we just go with the simple setup?
And what's the simple setup, if I may ask?

(44:01):
Well, running ads, OK, how much money do you actually have to
spend until you figure out not effectively utilize this, but
figure out how ads are done properly.
And this is where people burn out on budget.
Now, let's be honest, Google is not your cheapest friend who is
going to help you. No man, like they're going to

(44:22):
charge you for everything that you don't know.
And well, you're going to pay a lot until you figure this out or
unless you hire someone, which is adding an extra money to the
whole mix but their retainer plus the outspent and they are
not even a guarantee that they can do a great job, by the way.
So now you're burning a lot of cash for something that was
never really proven to be working.
And the question is what's goingto last longer?

(44:45):
Your willingness to run the business or the money in your
bank, like obviously money in the bank will run out.
This is this is where your willingness to run a business,
well, actually it's gone out of the door.
So there is no simple answer. Outbound is the cheapest way to
actually start doing things. That's number one.
The way it can get complicated. It doesn't have to be too

(45:07):
expensive, but it has to prove apoint.
Hey, listen, I have an audience,I have a sample, I have a target
segmented market. Is my offer going to work
against this segmented market? If like it's working like a
charm, 10,000 people reached 100people want to do a demo
investing that because you know your market now you know what
you're doing. See my point?

(45:28):
Well, and I've harped on that forever.
You know, people come to me, I want this CRM.
I want them. Like, you're not ready for it,
you know, I want more leads. You know, I want more traffic.
Like, do you want more traffic or more leads?
Well, more leads. You want more leads and more
qualified leads. Well, yeah, more qualified.
You want more qualified leads, You want more customers.
Well, I mean, if you're going tobe picky, you know, it's like

(45:48):
until you've optimized your conversions at each level, at
each step, Yeah, you were sayingthat throw, throw 100,000 and
you get 10. OK, fine.
But until why not dial it in andknow that you'll get 100?
Get 1000? That's I'm actually doing this
thing because I see it everyday.Like you have these young kids,
young guns like who actually figure out how to build out

(46:11):
couple of things together. Now they are an agency offering
agency services and so on and soforth.
And a client, actually, they retain a client on average for
less than three months. Why?
Because like it's very easy to, to impress a person who was, I
don't know, like hardcore sales and stuff like that.
And now he's a coach or a consultant and like showcase

(46:32):
like the fancy tools and the fancy ways of thinking.
And that person has money. And obviously we'll say, OK,
you're like 3K5K, whatever. K OK, do this thing for him,
right? And but that person is no dumb.
Like they don't know how to do technology, but they know how to
do business and they will basically go, I saw your
technology, but it's not generating any business.
So thank you very much and good luck with everything that you're

(46:54):
doing. And like false promises, like
ever since that that movie Wolf of Wall Street came out, like
everyone is like Leonardo DiCaprio, even though they're
not. So basically the agencies are
now struggling because they don't have experience in this
one in client fulfilment. Like even on the very early
stage when we were a product andthis is a product, not even a
service, we were always discussing and obviously the CEO

(47:16):
will and the CRO will always be we need more, we need more, we
need more and everyone is we need more.
And I was like with one simple question, hey, if we added 1000
users right now into the system like today, can the system
sustain them? The CTO goes well, no.
Well, why the fuck are we talking about scaling when we
cannot fulfill like the promises?
Let's talk about scaling once weknow that we are good to go.

(47:38):
Does it make sense? And let's focus on the next 100,
not on the next 1000. So yeah.
How do the good guys stand out then?
Cuz like my ideal customer, let's say I've got a $15,000
consulting offer and I'm going to stay with them till we get it

(47:58):
right. We're going to dial it and we're
going to do the hard work. I ask the hard questions.
We're going to slaughter the sacred cows.
We're going to get stuff right. We're going to build a
foundation that can infinitely scale.
But in the meantime, they're distracted.
They see these three and 5K offers promising all this latest
and greatest stuff. So they now they go spend their

(48:18):
budget on five different K whiz bang things.
They fail three months, six months later they find me.
They're like, damn, I spend all my money kissing all these
frogs. Now I don't have any money.
I don't have any sales. I've burned up my my domain
reputation. But can you please help me?
You know how you talk about too early or too late?

(48:40):
How do how do we catch them in that sweet spot before they
spend all their money on all themagic potions and spells that
don't work? That's I can only talk about
about the things that I did and I've basically grown this
company from zero because I'm part of this team before the
product was even built, I actually helped out the product
on how the how the product should look like.

(49:00):
And just today I've, I've, we'vecrossed the bar of 7 million in
total AR in 25 months. And inside of that process, we
never really spend the dime on outbound pay dots or any typical
thing that you will find. And obviously you will see
blocks and stuff like that. But we didn't do that like that
came after the second million, right when we actually had money

(49:21):
to invest in something that we were doing.
So I can tell you what we've done and other people, well, can
they? We can do the same thing or try
to replicate the same thing. So what did you do?
You built a product for outbound, but you didn't do
outbound. Yeah, I mean, we did some
outbound at the very early stages.
But then again, Bess, you asked me how do I pronounce?
How do you pronounce my name? Do you really expect like

(49:44):
somebody like similar to Bess? And let's say that you are my
target audience and I proactively try to reach you.
And the meeting starts off with hi, Elijah or how do I call you?
Right. Do you buy?
No, no, you don't because everyone's biased.
Who are you? Where are you coming from?
Are you from Russia? Are you a Russian spy because

(50:04):
your name looks Russian? You see my point?
That's a pretty fucked up objection to have when you're
especially when you're coming from a third world country,
right? And it's all good.
And then you go with, and now USis, by the way, our #1 market
now this is what every business should be doing and should focus
their, their like efforts on building out referrals, building

(50:28):
out referrals. If people don't know you, but
you want to work with you, somebody has to say something
about you. You're not going to trust like
they're not going to trust you. They don't care about the skill.
They're not, they're not going to even listen to you or open up
your e-mail, start with referrals, open up your
checkbook, open up every person that you know.
Is this person connected to businesses like XYZ?

(50:49):
Hey, jaw, like what's up? Are you connected with
businesses who do XYZ? Because we have, I have an
offering for them. And Joe goes, Hey, no, I know
Jack and Jack actually does that.
Maybe you should look him up. So obviously this is how you get
into place where you just start a little bit with growing your
business and putting some money inside of the bank account so
you can make things happen afterlater stage at the very

(51:12):
beginning. I mean, let me tell you this as
acro, like now I'm acro. But then back then I was just
Celia. So the only metric that we
followed wasn't the MRR, the ARR, the fancy metrics that were
like, I don't know whoever thought of them.
The only metric that we follow, how much money do we have in in
our bank account? Are we buying for $1.00 and

(51:33):
selling for $2.00? Good.
That's what we need to be. Why?
Because we are making an extra dollar, all cost cover coal and
an extra dollar in our bank. So the only metric is like, I
don't care about the vanity metrics.
I care about how much money do we have in the bank So we can
continue the story that we startto tell, you know, first place.
So nevertheless, start with referrals, start with people you

(51:53):
know, start with people you don't know.
Be general kind. How do you get referrals for
something you haven't yet created?
Or you have to create something,You have to create an offering,
right? Or well, let's say it is
created, but I mean it's not like they're brand new, you
know, you're new to market. How do you get those first
paying customers? Well, what we have did is, well,

(52:13):
we've picked up on the phone on people we know.
Hey guys, do you know something about someone?
And obviously when you put a couple of people together, we
started posting a little bit on LinkedIn and people started,
well, not begging, but actually asking, like, hey, I'm doing
this thing, would you help me now?
It started with the closest circle of people, former
employees, so on and so forth. Basically, people started

(52:36):
sending us other people and these other people actually
didn't, well, they didn't convert just because there was
someone in between. But then again, we started
asking 1 crucial question. And this is because we have a
product and anyone who has a service, like it's going to be
all different. 22 crucial questions.
If it was a money thing because I don't know if I have a

(52:57):
validated offer. It's a brand new market.
This is brand new me. And the question was, OK, do you
understand everything that I do?Yes or no?
Let's say yes. Do you feel like this is going
to help you in everything that you are doing?
Yes or no? If not, yeah, like could you
continue and do you feel like this is a fair price that I'm
asking for? And if not, what's your fair
price for this solution of this problem?

(53:20):
And basically, once you acquire like five of those responses for
two things will happen. Either you will be smart enough
to change the price based on ouruser feedback, right?
Or I mean, three things will happen now, either it will be
that second will be you have to lower the price in order to
close that deal, but it was OK because you're never really new
or you're going to be dumb enough to continue pushing and

(53:42):
pursuing people that this is theprice that they should pay.
So unless you are generating shit term of operational cost to
deliver on the product or the service now, you should
definitely lower the price and start off your 6th conversation
with the price that was suggested from the first five
meetings. And that's the first question.
And the second question is, well, listen, everything seems

(54:03):
fine, price seems fine, but we are still not deciding to
continue. For me, the crucial question was
what's your ideal solution that can justify like this money?
Obviously things are missing. Like people will always be like
in the no man's land where they go, this is already, this is
already. But if this is like the small
thing was there, I would have definitely.
And I'm like, OK, cool, no worries.

(54:24):
Yeah, we are not going to promise you that we are going to
build it out. But for me it was like, let's
get market validation of what's missing from the market because
they would have found that by now.
And I was like, OK, so what's your ideal linking solution or
what's your ideal offer, whatever.
So and those guys start the same.
We didn't close, obviously. But then again, by the like two

(54:45):
months later, three months later, once we acquired a lot of
responses, we've got a road map.How much money did we lose
because we didn't have XYZ? We lost X amount of money.
Cool. Can we develop this thing?
Yes, we can. How much?
Two months. Awesome.
And this is where you just listen to the market and just
adopt A solution place. So that's our story,

(55:07):
essentially. All right, I like it.
Well, look, man, it's it's 8:00 PM for you.
I have signed up as an affiliate, as you were talking.
So who says men can't multitask,huh?
No, no you definitely can't. It will be messed up if I signed
up as an affiliate to your platform while talking.
So I'm going to link out to you.I'm going to get my affiliate
link and link to you. But you've got three packages,

(55:28):
starter agency and an unlimited,yeah, unlimited LinkedIn
senders, 1 flat monthly fee. So I will, I'll be linking out
to you and sharing that. And but man, yeah, this went,
this went better than I hoped. Really.
Yeah. I mean, because you answered the
real questions, you know, in a real way.

(55:49):
And, and that's all I try to getto.
It's just let's cut through the fluff.
Selling is hard. You know, I think it's harder
now, but there are things we cando, stupid things that make it
even harder, unnecessarily difficult.
That's really difficult. I think I still believe,
especially now after talking with you, I mean, I think
humanity is still the killer app.

(56:10):
You know, we have to remember there are human beings on the
other end of these screens. Absolutely.
And, you know, keep it human andI think you'll be better off.
Vas, I'm going to close this off.
First off, thank you for having me.
I really enjoyed this with the right questions because I'm not
getting challenged enough and I love like have having
challenging questions because you have to stand by them and

(56:33):
answer them truly truthfully. So then again, like the biggest
about the sales, right? Once this whole AI blow over or
takes up stuff like that, I truly believe that we will end
up in a place where people wouldlike to buy from people that
they will meet. Like, listen, Bess, I'm going to

(56:54):
buy from you. I don't care.
Like the money is no issue because now the bots are
actually working and we have a huge ton of money to spend.
It's another commodity. It's like, obviously, but where
can we meet to grab a coffee, grab a lunch, grab a beer and
make this transaction because like, people will be, well, that
will be the best time for salespeople.
Right. Yeah.

(57:14):
Well, and I've been saying that too.
It's like, I think, I think liveevents, AI is so good now and it
just keeps getting better. These, these deep fakes, people
are going to want to meet in person to know that it's real.
And so conferences, but on your own conference, you know, attend
trade shows, you know, sponsor ahappy hour, sponsor a breakfast
or a lunch, see people face to face 'cause it's at the end of

(57:38):
the day, like humans haven't changed in 20,000 years.
You know, we are tribal creatures, we are social
creatures. Even the introverts, they'll sit
next to another introvert and both look at their phones, but
they'd they'd rather do it with another introvert by their side.
So they know they're not alone. So yeah, I'm glad you you
brought that up because I I've been saying the same thing.

(57:59):
So either we're both crazy and we may still be crazy, but
doesn't mean we're wrong. Yeah, of course, of course, of
course. No, listen, like time will tell.
Nobody has the right answer or not right eyes into lung cancer
at this point. Nobody knows like, what's coming
up next, but then again, like, it gives us a little bit to your
favorite thing that we saw in the past and now what we're
seeing. And I mean, it gives the liberty

(58:20):
to to think about the future. Yes.
I really enjoyed this one. Thank you too, very much for
having me. Yeah.
Have a good. Evening and I will see you on
LinkedIn. Hopefully, yes, I'll be there.
So I told you, making some changes, even changing the
camera angle, How about that? We'll see how this works, but I
gotta head to Jujitsu. Took a minute messing with the

(58:43):
camera and then the recording and, you know, life happens.
But I told you, you were in for treat, right?
Good guy, great advice, great insight.
How to launch, how to monetize, how to test, how to grow, how to
be human. You know what's coming next.
And hey, I I think humanity really is the next killer app.
So how good are you at being human?

(59:03):
How good are you on the phone? You know, we have all these
everybody's being catfished right now.
You sound good. You sound smart.
A is kind of beefing things up, puffing you up.
How good are you in person? It's coming.
OK. So if you need help with that,
if you want to practice a few things before the big show,
before the big test, let me know.
All right, thanks for watching. Thanks for listening.

(59:24):
I'll go sell something.

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