September 1, 2024 • 27 mins
Unlock the secrets of successful leadership and career growth with Iwona Szmidt and Michael Howard from Bank of America.
Discover how resilience and transferable skills can transform your professional journey.
Tune in to hear insightful stories about the role of employee networks in creating inclusive workplaces, especially for the LGBTQ+ community.
Listen to Learn:
- How embracing diversity boosts leadership and drives success.
- The transformative power of active listening.
- Navigating a dynamic career path with confidence.
- The role of being an ally in inclusive workplaces.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast Northern Power Womenpodcast.
For your career and your life,no matter what business you're
in.
Hello, hello and welcome to thewe Are Power podcast, a podcast
, and every week I am chattingto some of the most amazing role
(00:34):
models from in and across thenorth of England.
And this week I've got a doubleact.
I've got two for one.
I've got Ivona and Michael fromBank of America, and they have
the fanciest titles in the world.
We've got Ivona and Michaelfrom Bank of America and they
have the fanciest titles in theworld.
We've got Ivona who is theManaging Director for Markets
and Operations, the site leadover at Chester where Bank of
America HQ sits, and we've gotMichael Howard, who is the
(00:56):
Transaction Reporting ControlGroup, followed by TRCG acronyms
.
We love an acronym.
Welcome, ivona and Michael.
Welcome to the podcast over insunny Chester and it is sunny,
right, it's very sunny Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Simone, great to be here Hi.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Michael, great to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hey, simone.
Hey, yeah, no, thanks forhaving us.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh no, it's brilliant .
It's brilliant because we loveworking with you as one of our
fantastic partners and thisgives us an opportunity to get
in and beyond the Bank ofAmerica brand.
And Yvonne, you have had lotsof different leadership roles
throughout your career and itwas it was brilliant.
A few weeks about, we had youon one of our brilliant webinars
as well, and we were talkingabout different life lessons in
(01:37):
the future of work.
But what are some of thoselessons that you've learned
across your multiple roles?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Oh, there's so many.
You know, I think I probablylearn every day from someone,
but if I think about leadershipand what I've learned about
leadership, first thing I'd sayis listen.
I think so often people thinkbeing a leader is about talking
and giving direction.
Actually, it's about listening.
People might have better ideasthan you do, people might be
able to contribute and changethe way you process or the way
(02:10):
you think.
But also what I think isimportant is sometimes you will
assume that your team or yourclients are on the journey with
you already, whereas actuallymaybe they're not, and you need
to listen to be able to hearthat.
And so that's sort of the otherlesson you need to bring your
team, your clients, whoeveryou're working with, with you on
the journey, and for that youneed to think about how you
(02:33):
communicate, how people receivethe message.
So it's not just about what yousay and how you say it, but
actually how people will receivethat message.
And probably the biggest lessonI've learned is actually around
diversity of team, and you canbe most successful and actually
(02:55):
deliver the most as a leader ifyou have a team that's diverse
diverse of thought, diverse ofexperience, diverse of
background, because everyonebrings something else to the
table, and you just become thiscomplete team and super strong
and able to deliver.
I think those are probably themain things I take with me and
certainly I pass on to anymentees I have as well and I
(03:16):
think that's what it is, isn'tit?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's those lessons that you learn along the way,
that you can you give and gainalong the way as well, don't?
And it's you learn from thosementees as well, I think?
I think that's that that true.
I think that leadership beingthat kind of circular route, and
we, we talk about differentcareer paths and, um, we often
talk about squiggly career pathsbecause we, nobody, nobody, has
ever has that sort of straightroute, uh, to Everest Base Camp,
(03:40):
and maybe we'll get on to thatin a second Michael, but how did
you go from finance or tofinance where you are now, from
studying psychology?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
yeah, definitely definitely not a straight path,
simone, and definitely not notwhere I intended to end up,
that's for sure.
Um, my passion was alwayscriminal psychology and I was
always intent on getting into,like the prison service or the
probation service, somethinglike that.
Um, it was just a very acurveball was thrown to me.
I was due to start a master'sin criminal psychology and then,
(04:11):
six weeks before my coursestarted, uh, the university
cancelled it.
Uh, so, throwing an absolutecurveball right at the last
minute, I was like, ah, okay,I've just signed a 12 month
contract at house in chester,I've taken up all the finances
for the degree.
What do I do now?
Um, so, fortunately for me, Ijust started a summer job where
it's supposed to be a summer job, at MB&A, which at the time was
(04:34):
owned by Bank of America.
I got into that and thought,right, okay, let's just work out
what I'm going to do next.
What am I going to do with this?
With this master's and then,having no money, writing essays
all the time, suddenly I wasgetting a monthly income.
I wasn't in the library forseveral hours a day.
I thought, okay, let's juststick for this a little bit
longer until I work out what Iwant to do, and I think I'm now
(04:57):
16 years and I'm still trying toobviously work out what I want
to do.
But I'm 16 years down thiscareer now of financial services
.
So not what I intended, but butI'm 16 years down this career
now of uh, of financial services.
So not what I intended, but avery happy accident.
To be honest, simone, like the,the working at the bank, I
think that's one thing I'vefound is there's so many
opportunities that I in fact Iwas counting up before, before
this, before this podcast howmany roles have I done?
(05:18):
I've done like eight roles insort of that, 16 years, so I've
never got bored.
I've and I've obviously nevergone back to education, but I've
never got bored.
There's always something tomove on to another uh group, to
join a team to do.
You know differentresponsibilities and stuff.
So it's definitely worked outreally nicely for me.
I can't complain, um, but whoknows, maybe, maybe one day I'll
(05:40):
get back into criminalpsychology, but for now, yeah,
no, absolutely loving life.
Uh, this happy accident's workedout well, you've got to wait
till your summer job finishes,right well, exactly, it's been a
hell of a long summer, uh, alack of sunshine, but um yeah,
hell of a long summer.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Job this Simone and can I just ask how did you feel
at that moment?
Because this is situations andcircumstances out your control.
So you've, you've made yourplan, you've got somewhere to
stay, you've got your path.
I'm going to do this, masters,and all of a sudden that rug is
pulled from under you.
And how did you kind of dealwith that?
Because that's that first sortof curveball of adversity thrown
(06:15):
in.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, it's pretty scary because, like, yes, like I
say literally, yeah, my head'ssort of right, I'm doing this,
this is my future, like, say,got this job here, it's going to
be part-time, I'm going to bedoing this course here, and and
then suddenly, yeah, uh, it is,it is hard.
I think it was just sort of gotto take a step back and go okay,
well, I was very lucky in thator sort of had that job set up
so it gave me a bit of breathingspace.
(06:36):
But it's just sort of thatresilience, uh, and tell you
what I think, if I look back nowas well, that's probably served
me well for a career that youneed to be resilient.
Yeah, you know, things changein jobs or in across your career
.
Right, you'll come acrossmoments where things change.
Being able to be resilient andadapt to that change is
definitely a skill that I thinkyou everyone should try and have
(06:57):
, right, um?
So, yeah, it was, it was scary,um, but yeah, I think you just
got to sort of roll, roll withthe punches sometimes, just kind
of see where where things land.
And yeah, my experience isthere's always been something
good as sort of happened at theend of those sort of changes and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So hopefully that continues and I think, if I know
, you know we talk about thatsquiggly career path.
You know you've gone fromarchitecture to the finance
sector, like you know, you guys.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
We like to mix it up.
I know it's interesting, Ithink, when people hear that I,
you know, started witharchitecture and even going back
to A-levels right, I've gotfine art, a-level.
What's that got to do withworking in a bank?
And you know, probably I'll say, well, I moved away from
architecture, I'm actually notthat good at art.
But actually there aredefinitely skills that I learned
(07:53):
doing that degree or doing thatlearning that I now use because
there's so many transferableskills.
You don't just have to commityourself to one career, and
there's two in particular,actually and some of my team
laugh at me for the first one ispresentation skills.
So when I was doing my degree,once a week I had to put my
(08:15):
drawings up on a wall andpresent.
This is my idea and this iswhat I've done and this is why I
think it's so fabulous.
And actually in probably everyprofession you do, even in
banking, you need to presentyour idea, your pitch, what you
want to do or even help peopleunderstand an issue that may
(08:36):
have happened, whatever it mightbe, both in a sort of
presentation pack be itPowerPoint or other systems and
verbally.
You need to present, you needyour pitch.
So that really, really helpedme because I used to be really
shy as well.
So just getting up there andtalking was great.
And I think the other one isresilience, which is actually
(08:57):
hand in hand with thatpresentation, because those
presentations I did weekly wereactually to my tutor group.
So, as you can imagine, a bunchof 18 to 20-year-old students
not very forgiving and actuallywere pretty brutal with their
feedback and in something likearchitecture, it's your ideas,
it's quite personal.
So to be able to take thatfeedback, not take it personally
(09:20):
, not get upset, pick yourselfup and go forward is it helps
you with that inner strength andthat sort of ability to back
yourself and keep going.
And you know it really helpedwith the resiliency.
I think the first time I gotout I left in tears but by the
time I finished my three years,you know I was answering back
(09:42):
and telling people why.
You know their comments weren'tappropriate.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It's almost like that was a precursor for the
Apprentice TV show.
Appropriate, it's almost likethat was a precursor for the
Apprentice TV show.
Maybe.
That's where maybe your peergroup were some of the trainers
for some of Lord Sugar'sinterview skills.
And, michael, you've got, youknow, lots of side hustles,
haven't you?
But one of your key roles isbeing co-chair of the LGBTQ plus
(10:07):
and employee network and pillarlead for enterprise.
Um, what have been, what havebeen sort of the impact that
you've made and been involved inas part of these, these, um,
these, these groups?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, side hustles is a
good, a good way to describethem, simone.
Um, yeah, so I've been involvedas a co-chair of the LGBTQ
network for a few years and apillar lead of the enterprise
training team when I certainlyon the local Chester side, being
a network chair, I came in atthe start of COVID.
So the difference I see fromthen when we were all sitting at
(10:44):
home, virtually we couldn't runany in-person events, it was
really difficult to, kind of,you know, build that sort of
support network.
I think it was very, very hardwhen everyone was at home.
So you know, since then, if Ikind of look to now, where
things have gone, where we'reback to running the regular
events, our membership has grownexponentially.
That's been huge.
The stuff we've done on thetraining team, which is the
(11:06):
enterprise level, so that'sacross the entire organization
globally, the sessions have beenable to run there Training in
terms of cover topics likeallyship, sort of around trans
topics, non-binary topics.
We run panel discussions withemployees that either identify
that, but also some of thepowerful sessions around things
(11:28):
like parents that are eitheridentified that, but also some
of the powerful sessions aroundthings like parents, um, and
like those going through sort ofthe challenge of their children
coming out, perhaps, and howthey've coped with that, sharing
their knowledge and experiencewith everyone else, um, sort of
across the business.
So those sort of things are the, the impact and difference you
kind of see from them.
And then, especially, sort ofmore, we've really built the
(11:49):
relationship with a charity thatwe work with called Chester
Pride.
So for you or any listenersthat don't know Chester Pride,
they are a local LGBTQ charity.
I am very privileged as well.
Another side, hustle, simone, isI'm also a director of Chester
Pride, which is sort of avoluntary role I took up from
(12:09):
October.
So we've really built arelationship with them.
The bank now has increased itssponsorship.
We actually sponsor the YouthPride section.
That's recently sort of startedand through that we were able
to build relationships withlocal schools.
So we kicked off last year in2023, going out in partnership
with Chester Pride for a numberof local schools speaking to the
(12:30):
students that are part of someof these LGBTQ clubs.
Schools have actually got nowspeaking to the kids about what
Chester Pride is and how we cansupport them, how we'd love to
see them come and support us onthe day, and stuff like that.
So building those relationshipswith the local schools that
we're sort of continuing thisyear, that's been another sort
of fantastic difference in sortof impact that we've seen
(12:52):
locally and hopefully, yeah,that kind of stuff continues.
So, yeah, it's been from when Itook over in sort of yeah,
covid times, to where we are now.
It's a whole world ofdifference for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And I think the importance of being part of
these side hustles.
If we call them, you knowwhether it be in your
organisation.
If we call them, you knowwhether it be in your
organisation.
So whether it's a, you know,employee resource group or a
community within yourorganisation or outside, you
know it's never.
What would you say to someonewho's maybe listening, who
thinks you know, I've maybewanted to get involved with this
internally, or you knowsomething over here externally,
but I don't know whether I'vegot the experience, or I don't
(13:24):
know whether I can, or whatwould you say to them?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I'd there are can or uh, what would you say to them?
I'd say I'd say sort of twothings, but one is like you
definitely have got theexperience because you don't
need any experience.
This was a reservation and aself-doubt I personally had when
getting involved because, um,I'm like I'm not part of the
lgbtq community.
Okay, I'm a very passionatestraight ally, friends and
family that are part of thecommunity.
That's kind of, uh, yeah, Ithink sort of crafted me to how
(13:52):
I am, why I'm passionate.
But that's a reservation for astart I always had of, well, I'm
not part of the community, Ican't really speak for people, I
shouldn't be involved in thisand I don't know enough.
I'm I'm not a senior person atwork and always have had those
doubts.
But actually, um, everyone iswelcome in the sort of network
for internal or external.
Everyone's experience, uh, anddifferences are are valid and
(14:14):
welcomed, um, and and the otherthing I'd say is like it makes a
huge difference people gettinginvolved in these things.
And I'll give you an example,simone, because this is
something that's really sort ofresonated with me since I sort
of um started getting involvedinternally, um, so I always
think sort of, you know whatimpact does it have?
And this is a question I getasked, right, what difference
(14:34):
does it make, michael?
Who cares Like?
Why does it matter if I getinvolved?
Why does it matter if I have arainbow flag on my desk?
Well, we had a team I worked inpreviously.
We had a brand new starter thatcame.
They were fresh out ofuniversity.
This is their very first jobobviously a scary and daunting
moment, right, you start yourfirst sort of corporate job and
(14:55):
that in itself is scary.
Um, then, externally, thisperson personally was going
through a bit of sort of turmoilin terms of not knowing how to
identify.
They knew they weren't straight, but they were sort of
questioning a lot of stuff.
Put Put those things together.
Right, that's ultra scary forsomeone.
How do you act in the office?
Do you tell people generallyhow you are and how you practice
(15:17):
?
Do you sort of pretend to bestraight because you want to
maybe fit in right?
You're not sure how colleaguesare going to react.
So that is a really scary time,I think, for anyone.
Roll on 12 months and thatperson signed up to join the
network and when they signed upI saw they flagged themselves as
out at work.
So I remember going to speak tothem and saying great love that
(15:41):
you've joined, and I didn'teven know that you were out,
it's not something you've everspoken about.
And they said do you know what?
Yeah, I wasn't sure.
When I first started at work Ihad all these mixed feelings.
I didn't know whether I shouldbe sort of out or not.
And they said the biggest thingis what.
I've seen, the network.
I see the visibility across theoffice.
(16:01):
I see there are rainbow flagson people's desks.
We have these tent cards and wecall them work that kind of
says I'm an ally or I'm out ofwork.
They see the events, the coffeemornings that we run and the
chest of pride relationship thatwe have, and those things made
that person feel comfortable tocome out of work.
It wasn't anything that we did.
You know I didn't behavedifferently.
(16:22):
Nobody knew this person wasstruggling.
It was just how everyonenaturally behaved.
The natural stuff that networkdid was enough that that person
thought yeah, today we'reactually bank of america, I can
be myself here, I can bring mywhole self to work.
So little stories like that.
You realize that's why we do it.
You know, you don't need tohave any special skills or
(16:43):
experience.
You just need to be yourself,be that ally for other people,
and that, can you know, cancreate an inclusive environment
for other people.
So that that's what I'd say tosomeone as well.
It really does make adifference.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And it motivates you to do more, doesn't it?
Because for that one story thatyou've just relayed, there'll
be a dozen others that you don'tknow about, that you'll hear in
future weeks or months thatyou're like oh my goodness, this
is why we do what we do and,yvonne, you know you're the
co-chair of the globaloperations and the EDI councils.
What are you most proud of?
(17:15):
Because, I know, not leadingthe witness, your Honour, but
you know, I know allyship andadvocacy is really important,
isn't it to you in the cultureof your, your team?
But there's a, there's amillion things that you're
driving out there.
What, what sort of sparks yourum, your motivation to keep
co-chairing and driving that,that agenda?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
yeah, the, the, the, the teams have done so much, the
councils have delivered so much.
The councils have delivered somuch.
I mean, as co-chairs, really,we guide them.
It's the individuals who jointhe networks, as Michael said,
and participate.
They're really the drivers andwe do a lot around inclusivity
and I think that's reallyimportant.
(17:57):
I think that touches on whatMichael mentioned.
We very much believe here atBank of America about bringing
your whole self to work andMichael mentioned that and it's
about everyone should feelcomfortable being whoever they
are when they come to work, andthat is about inclusivity and
people feeling comfortable andas part of those counts.
I mean, there's a long list ofthings we did, but actually the
(18:19):
thing I'm proudest of and I'mgoing to say it as we try to
create more Michaels because wehad an initiative called All
Four or hashtag All Four, and itwas focused on that inclusivity
.
But it was focused onencouraging people to join
networks as allies, not to jointhe network because they
(18:42):
identified with that particularnetwork or the diverse group
that network represented, but tobe an ally.
And the reason why that's soimportant and why I feel so
proud about it because I reallydo believe that, by listening
and getting knowledge aboutpeople's points of view and
(19:02):
experiences.
It fosters understanding,because you understand a lot
more about why people may dothings a certain way or what
they're going through.
And once you foster thatunderstanding, people become
more tolerant, they become moreinclusive, and that just changes
.
I don't want to sound like bigideas, but it can change society
, never mind the way anorganization works.
(19:24):
So we kicked off an initiativelike that and it really took off
, I think.
One because it really resonatedwith the culture of our
organization, but two, I thinkpeople wanted it.
I think there were a lot ofpeople, like Michael said, who
didn't feel why would I join?
What can I bring to this?
And it was like giving thempermission or that little nudge
to do so.
And again, like Mike said, wehave people with email
(19:46):
signatures, with all four cards.
I've got a poster in my office,but even if you don't use the
hashtag, as Mike said, I have arainbow flag in my office.
I also don't identify as LGBTQ+, but I know that as a senior
member of the team, if someonewho's dealing with those issues
can walk past my office and seethat, that hopefully means it's
(20:09):
okay, you can be yourself whenyou come to work and really
pushing those initiatives andthat coming from the team rather
than a directive from the top.
I think that was huge and Ifeel really proud that.
I think along the way we becamemore inclusive and maybe
changed people's perception andminds a little bit as well as
they got a better understandingof various groups.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
And it's little by little, and obviously, as you
say, we need more Michaels.
Right, you know.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
but Michael, I'm not sure we do, simone, I'm not sure
we do.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I can feel that on a tote bag or a t-shirt right now,
yvonne, I reckon.
But, michael, what do you think?
What do you wish you'd haveknown when you were starting out
?
And I don't know whether thatstarting out was in your summer
job that you're still in, or, oryou know, prepping for your
masters, or as you've navigatedthe last 16 years yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well, I think what one thing is I would definitely
say I sort of touched right.
There is like stepping outsideyour comfort zone.
You know, like I said, I'vealways had those self doubts of
whether it's when I stepped upto be co-chair of sort of the
local Chester network, whether Istepped up to be on the
enterprise level.
I've always sort of thoughtthere's probably a bit too much.
I'm just gonna be outside.
Oh, that's gonna be too muchtoo.
It's too important role for me.
(21:20):
Um, and I've sort of hesitatedover applying and in the end I
sort of jumped in and done itand you know what?
It was fine.
The scariest bit was that justthat initial put in putting your
hand up and say, yeah, I thinkI could be interested in this.
Um, don't be afraid to sort of,you know, just jump in and step
outside your comfort zone,because it really isn't as hard
as as, or scary as people sortof think.
(21:42):
It's this that initial, orshould I do it?
Once you've done it, only goodthings have ever happened, um,
for me, um.
But what I'd also definitelysay is I wish someone sort of
said at the start that I think Ithink probably like a lot of
people.
When you start out on yourcareer, I think I very much
thought that careers were sortof ran vertically and to be
successful it had to runvertically and you had to keep
(22:03):
moving up.
And if you stop moving up,you're probably not.
You know, you stop beingsuccessful right, and, as I
imagine, everyone, a lot ofpeople starting off when you
come out of university, probablyhave that thought.
That myth is right.
You know, I need to be jumpingthat corporate pattern going up
and up.
But I think if somebody said tome look, this isn't just
vertical, you can have successmoving horizontally.
Take those sideways moves, youknow, grow your skill set, learn
(22:27):
, you know, new areas and newknowledge, because that in
itself one makes you a morerounded person and makes you
successful.
But it also opens up moreopportunities, and that's
certainly what I found.
You know, opportunities havecome from those sideways moves.
So I think someone, if someonehas sat me down and said look,
success isn't just moving up,you know, success is much more
rounded than that thatdefinitely would have set me
(22:49):
well.
So yeah, I'd share that withfolks.
Simone.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Thanks, michael and Ivana.
What advice would you give thatyoung fine art student or that
architecture professional?
What advice would you give themwith their aspiring to enter
the finance industry or not surewhich industry they want to go
into?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
well, do you know what?
I think it's so much advice, um, but uh, um, I.
I mean, firstly I'd say, uh,and this is trying not to sound
too much, too old, but whenyou're young you still got your
whole life ahead of you.
Don't decide what you have todo at the start.
Leave your options open.
That's okay.
And a little bit to michael'spoint, you don't have to have
(23:30):
this strict career path you haveto stick to.
You can have a wiggly line, andthat might mean changing job
types or even industries, but Imean around finance.
I think the biggest thing Iwould I would tell that
architecture student is thatfinance isn't all about
accounting and trading.
There's those preconceptions.
Right, you need to be aneconomist or a mathematician,
(23:51):
and that just isn't true.
There are so many differenttypes of roles within the
finance industry andparticularly if you look at an
organization the size of Bank ofAmerica, we employ people with
such a diverse skill set andthere are so many different
roles, career trajectories.
You know we have engineers, wehave very technical coders, and
(24:15):
then we will have lawyers andclient service specialists, or
auditors and risk experts.
So such a variety of roles andthe great thing is, you can vary
your career and you know, asMichael said, he had eight.
You know eight roles in 16years.
You can move around and that'sgood and you learn and you can
decide along the way what reallysort of suits you.
(24:37):
And I think the best advice Ican give your goal should be to
find something you're good atand that you enjoy doing, and if
you can merge those two to findsomething like that, you have
literally hit the jackpot.
And then it's not about gettinga corporate title or moving up
a trajectory, because thenyou're enjoying and giving back
(24:59):
and you're good at it, so thatcareer will almost naturally
move with you.
So I'd say don't have a strictidea of what you need to be.
Be open to opportunities and gowith the flow a bit.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Enjoy the adventure.
Exactly, talking of adventure,michael, what was your highlight
of your trip to Everest BaseCamp last year?
That's a tough one, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
That is a tough one.
Yeah, I mean that was.
It's a cliche to say it's atrip of a lifetime, but it was a
trip of a lifetime.
Yeah, no, it was incredible.
I mean I think you can't evendescribe words, don't do it
justice when you actually seeEverest up close and the views
and scenery and stuff around itwas next level.
(25:45):
I know what I would say iscertainly the challenge of
dealing with altitude ishorrific and is not to be
underestimated.
So that definitely was achallenge to deal with.
But yeah, I mean feeling whenwe actually sort of reached
there, we've got.
You know, you hit base camp,you can see the other sort of
guys on the expedition actuallygoing off to do sort of proper
(26:07):
Everest, the real mountaineers,not just us pathetic hikers Like
that was great to see as well.
So, yeah, honestly, such a goodtrip that and we're even I'm
very fortunate, next year is my15th permanent year at the bank,
um, and they, they provide asabbatical program.
(26:27):
So in 15th year you get an extrafour weeks paid holiday that
you can use as a block.
So I am already looking atgoing back to the himalayas
again next year, um to hit up adifferent uh, a different summit
called uh island peak, which isa little bit higher, a little
bit more challenging.
So hopefully that will be evenbetter, simone, than Everest
Base Camp.
Have me back next year and I'lltell you all about it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We absolutely will, scaling great heights in your
career.
Ivana, michael, thank you somuch.
We've taught resilience.
We've taught leadership.
We've taught leaning intoopportunities.
We've talked about not having aplan right at the start.
So many tips, so many tote bags, so many t-shirts to put those
messages on.
And, of course, we need moremichaels uh, iran and michael.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
(27:11):
Thank you for all the supportwe gain from the bank of america
.
Massive thank you for being onthe we are power podcast.
Thank you, thanks, and thankall of you for listening.
Please do stay connected on allof our socials Twitter,
instagram and Twitter, Twitter,instagram and TikTok even we are
power underscore net andFacebook and LinkedIn.
We are power.
(27:32):
Please leave a review, get intouch, join the conversation.
We love hearing from you.
My name is Simone.
This is the we Are Powerpodcast of what Goes on Media
Productions.
Hello, hello and welcome to the we Are Power
podcast Northern Power Womenpodcast.
For your career and your life,no matter what business you're
in.
Hello, hello and welcome to thewe Are Power podcast, a podcast
, and every week I am chattingto some of the most amazing role
(00:34):
models from in and across thenorth of England.
And this week I've got a doubleact.
I've got two for one.
I've got Ivona and Michael fromBank of America, and they have
the fanciest titles in the world.
We've got Ivona and Michaelfrom Bank of America and they
have the fanciest titles in theworld.
We've got Ivona who is theManaging Director for Markets
and Operations, the site leadover at Chester where Bank of
America HQ sits, and we've gotMichael Howard, who is the
(00:56):
Transaction Reporting ControlGroup, followed by TRCG acronyms
.
We love an acronym.
Welcome, ivona and Michael.
Welcome to the podcast over insunny Chester and it is sunny,
right, it's very sunny Hi.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Simone, great to be here Hi.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Michael, great to see you.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
Hey, simone.
Hey, yeah, no, thanks forhaving us.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh no, it's brilliant .
It's brilliant because we loveworking with you as one of our
fantastic partners and thisgives us an opportunity to get
in and beyond the Bank ofAmerica brand.
And Yvonne, you have had lotsof different leadership roles
throughout your career and itwas it was brilliant.
A few weeks about, we had youon one of our brilliant webinars
as well, and we were talkingabout different life lessons in
(01:37):
the future of work.
But what are some of thoselessons that you've learned
across your multiple roles?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Oh, there's so many.
You know, I think I probablylearn every day from someone,
but if I think about leadershipand what I've learned about
leadership, first thing I'd sayis listen.
I think so often people thinkbeing a leader is about talking
and giving direction.
Actually, it's about listening.
People might have better ideasthan you do, people might be
able to contribute and changethe way you process or the way
(02:10):
you think.
But also what I think isimportant is sometimes you will
assume that your team or yourclients are on the journey with
you already, whereas actuallymaybe they're not, and you need
to listen to be able to hearthat.
And so that's sort of the otherlesson you need to bring your
team, your clients, whoeveryou're working with, with you on
the journey, and for that youneed to think about how you
(02:33):
communicate, how people receivethe message.
So it's not just about what yousay and how you say it, but
actually how people will receivethat message.
And probably the biggest lessonI've learned is actually around
diversity of team, and you canbe most successful and actually
(02:55):
deliver the most as a leader ifyou have a team that's diverse
diverse of thought, diverse ofexperience, diverse of
background, because everyonebrings something else to the
table, and you just become thiscomplete team and super strong
and able to deliver.
I think those are probably themain things I take with me and
certainly I pass on to anymentees I have as well and I
(03:16):
think that's what it is, isn'tit?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It's those lessons that you learn along the way,
that you can you give and gainalong the way as well, don't?
And it's you learn from thosementees as well, I think?
I think that's that that true.
I think that leadership beingthat kind of circular route, and
we, we talk about differentcareer paths and, um, we often
talk about squiggly career pathsbecause we, nobody, nobody, has
ever has that sort of straightroute, uh, to Everest Base Camp,
(03:40):
and maybe we'll get on to thatin a second Michael, but how did
you go from finance or tofinance where you are now, from
studying psychology?
Speaker 3 (03:49):
yeah, definitely definitely not a straight path,
simone, and definitely not notwhere I intended to end up,
that's for sure.
Um, my passion was alwayscriminal psychology and I was
always intent on getting into,like the prison service or the
probation service, somethinglike that.
Um, it was just a very acurveball was thrown to me.
I was due to start a master'sin criminal psychology and then,
(04:11):
six weeks before my coursestarted, uh, the university
cancelled it.
Uh, so, throwing an absolutecurveball right at the last
minute, I was like, ah, okay,I've just signed a 12 month
contract at house in chester,I've taken up all the finances
for the degree.
What do I do now?
Um, so, fortunately for me, Ijust started a summer job where
it's supposed to be a summer job, at MB&A, which at the time was
(04:34):
owned by Bank of America.
I got into that and thought,right, okay, let's just work out
what I'm going to do next.
What am I going to do with this?
With this master's and then,having no money, writing essays
all the time, suddenly I wasgetting a monthly income.
I wasn't in the library forseveral hours a day.
I thought, okay, let's juststick for this a little bit
longer until I work out what Iwant to do, and I think I'm now
(04:57):
16 years and I'm still trying toobviously work out what I want
to do.
But I'm 16 years down thiscareer now of financial services
.
So not what I intended, but butI'm 16 years down this career
now of uh, of financial services.
So not what I intended, but avery happy accident.
To be honest, simone, like the,the working at the bank, I
think that's one thing I'vefound is there's so many
opportunities that I in fact Iwas counting up before, before
this, before this podcast howmany roles have I done?
(05:18):
I've done like eight roles insort of that, 16 years, so I've
never got bored.
I've and I've obviously nevergone back to education, but I've
never got bored.
There's always something tomove on to another uh group, to
join a team to do.
You know differentresponsibilities and stuff.
So it's definitely worked outreally nicely for me.
I can't complain, um, but whoknows, maybe, maybe one day I'll
(05:40):
get back into criminalpsychology, but for now, yeah,
no, absolutely loving life.
Uh, this happy accident's workedout well, you've got to wait
till your summer job finishes,right well, exactly, it's been a
hell of a long summer, uh, alack of sunshine, but um yeah,
hell of a long summer.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Job this Simone and can I just ask how did you feel
at that moment?
Because this is situations andcircumstances out your control.
So you've, you've made yourplan, you've got somewhere to
stay, you've got your path.
I'm going to do this, masters,and all of a sudden that rug is
pulled from under you.
And how did you kind of dealwith that?
Because that's that first sortof curveball of adversity thrown
(06:15):
in.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, it's pretty scary because, like, yes, like I
say literally, yeah, my head'ssort of right, I'm doing this,
this is my future, like, say,got this job here, it's going to
be part-time, I'm going to bedoing this course here, and and
then suddenly, yeah, uh, it is,it is hard.
I think it was just sort of gotto take a step back and go okay,
well, I was very lucky in thator sort of had that job set up
so it gave me a bit of breathingspace.
(06:36):
But it's just sort of thatresilience, uh, and tell you
what I think, if I look back nowas well, that's probably served
me well for a career that youneed to be resilient.
Yeah, you know, things changein jobs or in across your career
.
Right, you'll come acrossmoments where things change.
Being able to be resilient andadapt to that change is
definitely a skill that I thinkyou everyone should try and have
(06:57):
, right, um?
So, yeah, it was, it was scary,um, but yeah, I think you just
got to sort of roll, roll withthe punches sometimes, just kind
of see where where things land.
And yeah, my experience isthere's always been something
good as sort of happened at theend of those sort of changes and
stuff.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
So hopefully that continues and I think, if I know
, you know we talk about thatsquiggly career path.
You know you've gone fromarchitecture to the finance
sector, like you know, you guys.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
We like to mix it up.
I know it's interesting, Ithink, when people hear that I,
you know, started witharchitecture and even going back
to A-levels right, I've gotfine art, a-level.
What's that got to do withworking in a bank?
And you know, probably I'll say, well, I moved away from
architecture, I'm actually notthat good at art.
But actually there aredefinitely skills that I learned
(07:53):
doing that degree or doing thatlearning that I now use because
there's so many transferableskills.
You don't just have to commityourself to one career, and
there's two in particular,actually and some of my team
laugh at me for the first one ispresentation skills.
So when I was doing my degree,once a week I had to put my
(08:15):
drawings up on a wall andpresent.
This is my idea and this iswhat I've done and this is why I
think it's so fabulous.
And actually in probably everyprofession you do, even in
banking, you need to presentyour idea, your pitch, what you
want to do or even help peopleunderstand an issue that may
(08:36):
have happened, whatever it mightbe, both in a sort of
presentation pack be itPowerPoint or other systems and
verbally.
You need to present, you needyour pitch.
So that really, really helpedme because I used to be really
shy as well.
So just getting up there andtalking was great.
And I think the other one isresilience, which is actually
(08:57):
hand in hand with thatpresentation, because those
presentations I did weekly wereactually to my tutor group.
So, as you can imagine, a bunchof 18 to 20-year-old students
not very forgiving and actuallywere pretty brutal with their
feedback and in something likearchitecture, it's your ideas,
it's quite personal.
So to be able to take thatfeedback, not take it personally
(09:20):
, not get upset, pick yourselfup and go forward is it helps
you with that inner strength andthat sort of ability to back
yourself and keep going.
And you know it really helpedwith the resiliency.
I think the first time I gotout I left in tears but by the
time I finished my three years,you know I was answering back
(09:42):
and telling people why.
You know their comments weren'tappropriate.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
It's almost like that was a precursor for the
Apprentice TV show.
Appropriate, it's almost likethat was a precursor for the
Apprentice TV show.
Maybe.
That's where maybe your peergroup were some of the trainers
for some of Lord Sugar'sinterview skills.
And, michael, you've got, youknow, lots of side hustles,
haven't you?
But one of your key roles isbeing co-chair of the LGBTQ plus
(10:07):
and employee network and pillarlead for enterprise.
Um, what have been, what havebeen sort of the impact that
you've made and been involved inas part of these, these, um,
these, these groups?
Speaker 3 (10:20):
yeah, yeah, you're right, yeah, side hustles is a
good, a good way to describethem, simone.
Um, yeah, so I've been involvedas a co-chair of the LGBTQ
network for a few years and apillar lead of the enterprise
training team when I certainlyon the local Chester side, being
a network chair, I came in atthe start of COVID.
So the difference I see fromthen when we were all sitting at
(10:44):
home, virtually we couldn't runany in-person events, it was
really difficult to, kind of,you know, build that sort of
support network.
I think it was very, very hardwhen everyone was at home.
So you know, since then, if Ikind of look to now, where
things have gone, where we'reback to running the regular
events, our membership has grownexponentially.
That's been huge.
The stuff we've done on thetraining team, which is the
(11:06):
enterprise level, so that'sacross the entire organization
globally, the sessions have beenable to run there Training in
terms of cover topics likeallyship, sort of around trans
topics, non-binary topics.
We run panel discussions withemployees that either identify
that, but also some of thepowerful sessions around things
(11:28):
like parents that are eitheridentified that, but also some
of the powerful sessions aroundthings like parents, um, and
like those going through sort ofthe challenge of their children
coming out, perhaps, and howthey've coped with that, sharing
their knowledge and experiencewith everyone else, um, sort of
across the business.
So those sort of things are the, the impact and difference you
kind of see from them.
And then, especially, sort ofmore, we've really built the
(11:49):
relationship with a charity thatwe work with called Chester
Pride.
So for you or any listenersthat don't know Chester Pride,
they are a local LGBTQ charity.
I am very privileged as well.
Another side, hustle, simone, isI'm also a director of Chester
Pride, which is sort of avoluntary role I took up from
(12:09):
October.
So we've really built arelationship with them.
The bank now has increased itssponsorship.
We actually sponsor the YouthPride section.
That's recently sort of startedand through that we were able
to build relationships withlocal schools.
So we kicked off last year in2023, going out in partnership
with Chester Pride for a numberof local schools speaking to the
(12:30):
students that are part of someof these LGBTQ clubs.
Schools have actually got nowspeaking to the kids about what
Chester Pride is and how we cansupport them, how we'd love to
see them come and support us onthe day, and stuff like that.
So building those relationshipswith the local schools that
we're sort of continuing thisyear, that's been another sort
of fantastic difference in sortof impact that we've seen
(12:52):
locally and hopefully, yeah,that kind of stuff continues.
So, yeah, it's been from when Itook over in sort of yeah,
covid times, to where we are now.
It's a whole world ofdifference for sure.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
And I think the importance of being part of
these side hustles.
If we call them, you knowwhether it be in your
organisation.
If we call them, you knowwhether it be in your
organisation.
So whether it's a, you know,employee resource group or a
community within yourorganisation or outside, you
know it's never.
What would you say to someonewho's maybe listening, who
thinks you know, I've maybewanted to get involved with this
internally, or you knowsomething over here externally,
but I don't know whether I'vegot the experience, or I don't
(13:24):
know whether I can, or whatwould you say to them?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I'd there are can or uh, what would you say to them?
I'd say I'd say sort of twothings, but one is like you
definitely have got theexperience because you don't
need any experience.
This was a reservation and aself-doubt I personally had when
getting involved because, um,I'm like I'm not part of the
lgbtq community.
Okay, I'm a very passionatestraight ally, friends and
family that are part of thecommunity.
That's kind of, uh, yeah, Ithink sort of crafted me to how
(13:52):
I am, why I'm passionate.
But that's a reservation for astart I always had of, well, I'm
not part of the community, Ican't really speak for people, I
shouldn't be involved in thisand I don't know enough.
I'm I'm not a senior person atwork and always have had those
doubts.
But actually, um, everyone iswelcome in the sort of network
for internal or external.
Everyone's experience, uh, anddifferences are are valid and
(14:14):
welcomed, um, and and the otherthing I'd say is like it makes a
huge difference people gettinginvolved in these things.
And I'll give you an example,simone, because this is
something that's really sort ofresonated with me since I sort
of um started getting involvedinternally, um, so I always
think sort of, you know whatimpact does it have?
And this is a question I getasked, right, what difference
(14:34):
does it make, michael?
Who cares Like?
Why does it matter if I getinvolved?
Why does it matter if I have arainbow flag on my desk?
Well, we had a team I worked inpreviously.
We had a brand new starter thatcame.
They were fresh out ofuniversity.
This is their very first jobobviously a scary and daunting
moment, right, you start yourfirst sort of corporate job and
(14:55):
that in itself is scary.
Um, then, externally, thisperson personally was going
through a bit of sort of turmoilin terms of not knowing how to
identify.
They knew they weren't straight, but they were sort of
questioning a lot of stuff.
Put Put those things together.
Right, that's ultra scary forsomeone.
How do you act in the office?
Do you tell people generallyhow you are and how you practice
(15:17):
?
Do you sort of pretend to bestraight because you want to
maybe fit in right?
You're not sure how colleaguesare going to react.
So that is a really scary time,I think, for anyone.
Roll on 12 months and thatperson signed up to join the
network and when they signed upI saw they flagged themselves as
out at work.
So I remember going to speak tothem and saying great love that
(15:41):
you've joined, and I didn'teven know that you were out,
it's not something you've everspoken about.
And they said do you know what?
Yeah, I wasn't sure.
When I first started at work Ihad all these mixed feelings.
I didn't know whether I shouldbe sort of out or not.
And they said the biggest thingis what.
I've seen, the network.
I see the visibility across theoffice.
(16:01):
I see there are rainbow flagson people's desks.
We have these tent cards and wecall them work that kind of
says I'm an ally or I'm out ofwork.
They see the events, the coffeemornings that we run and the
chest of pride relationship thatwe have, and those things made
that person feel comfortable tocome out of work.
It wasn't anything that we did.
You know I didn't behavedifferently.
(16:22):
Nobody knew this person wasstruggling.
It was just how everyonenaturally behaved.
The natural stuff that networkdid was enough that that person
thought yeah, today we'reactually bank of america, I can
be myself here, I can bring mywhole self to work.
So little stories like that.
You realize that's why we do it.
You know, you don't need tohave any special skills or
(16:43):
experience.
You just need to be yourself,be that ally for other people,
and that, can you know, cancreate an inclusive environment
for other people.
So that that's what I'd say tosomeone as well.
It really does make adifference.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
And it motivates you to do more, doesn't it?
Because for that one story thatyou've just relayed, there'll
be a dozen others that you don'tknow about, that you'll hear in
future weeks or months thatyou're like oh my goodness, this
is why we do what we do and,yvonne, you know you're the
co-chair of the globaloperations and the EDI councils.
What are you most proud of?
(17:15):
Because, I know, not leadingthe witness, your Honour, but
you know, I know allyship andadvocacy is really important,
isn't it to you in the cultureof your, your team?
But there's a, there's amillion things that you're
driving out there.
What, what sort of sparks yourum, your motivation to keep
co-chairing and driving that,that agenda?
Speaker 2 (17:35):
yeah, the, the, the, the teams have done so much, the
councils have delivered so much.
The councils have delivered somuch.
I mean, as co-chairs, really,we guide them.
It's the individuals who jointhe networks, as Michael said,
and participate.
They're really the drivers andwe do a lot around inclusivity
and I think that's reallyimportant.
(17:57):
I think that touches on whatMichael mentioned.
We very much believe here atBank of America about bringing
your whole self to work andMichael mentioned that and it's
about everyone should feelcomfortable being whoever they
are when they come to work, andthat is about inclusivity and
people feeling comfortable andas part of those counts.
I mean, there's a long list ofthings we did, but actually the
(18:19):
thing I'm proudest of and I'mgoing to say it as we try to
create more Michaels because wehad an initiative called All
Four or hashtag All Four, and itwas focused on that inclusivity
.
But it was focused onencouraging people to join
networks as allies, not to jointhe network because they
(18:42):
identified with that particularnetwork or the diverse group
that network represented, but tobe an ally.
And the reason why that's soimportant and why I feel so
proud about it because I reallydo believe that, by listening
and getting knowledge aboutpeople's points of view and
(19:02):
experiences.
It fosters understanding,because you understand a lot
more about why people may dothings a certain way or what
they're going through.
And once you foster thatunderstanding, people become
more tolerant, they become moreinclusive, and that just changes
.
I don't want to sound like bigideas, but it can change society
, never mind the way anorganization works.
(19:24):
So we kicked off an initiativelike that and it really took off
, I think.
One because it really resonatedwith the culture of our
organization, but two, I thinkpeople wanted it.
I think there were a lot ofpeople, like Michael said, who
didn't feel why would I join?
What can I bring to this?
And it was like giving thempermission or that little nudge
to do so.
And again, like Mike said, wehave people with email
(19:46):
signatures, with all four cards.
I've got a poster in my office,but even if you don't use the
hashtag, as Mike said, I have arainbow flag in my office.
I also don't identify as LGBTQ+, but I know that as a senior
member of the team, if someonewho's dealing with those issues
can walk past my office and seethat, that hopefully means it's
(20:09):
okay, you can be yourself whenyou come to work and really
pushing those initiatives andthat coming from the team rather
than a directive from the top.
I think that was huge and Ifeel really proud that.
I think along the way we becamemore inclusive and maybe
changed people's perception andminds a little bit as well as
they got a better understandingof various groups.
Speaker 1 (20:32):
And it's little by little, and obviously, as you
say, we need more Michaels.
Right, you know.
Speaker 3 (20:36):
but Michael, I'm not sure we do, simone, I'm not sure
we do.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
I can feel that on a tote bag or a t-shirt right now,
yvonne, I reckon.
But, michael, what do you think?
What do you wish you'd haveknown when you were starting out
?
And I don't know whether thatstarting out was in your summer
job that you're still in, or, oryou know, prepping for your
masters, or as you've navigatedthe last 16 years yeah, I think.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
Well, I think what one thing is I would definitely
say I sort of touched right.
There is like stepping outsideyour comfort zone.
You know, like I said, I'vealways had those self doubts of
whether it's when I stepped upto be co-chair of sort of the
local Chester network, whether Istepped up to be on the
enterprise level.
I've always sort of thoughtthere's probably a bit too much.
I'm just gonna be outside.
Oh, that's gonna be too muchtoo.
It's too important role for me.
(21:20):
Um, and I've sort of hesitatedover applying and in the end I
sort of jumped in and done itand you know what?
It was fine.
The scariest bit was that justthat initial put in putting your
hand up and say, yeah, I thinkI could be interested in this.
Um, don't be afraid to sort of,you know, just jump in and step
outside your comfort zone,because it really isn't as hard
as as, or scary as people sortof think.
(21:42):
It's this that initial, orshould I do it?
Once you've done it, only goodthings have ever happened, um,
for me, um.
But what I'd also definitelysay is I wish someone sort of
said at the start that I think Ithink probably like a lot of
people.
When you start out on yourcareer, I think I very much
thought that careers were sortof ran vertically and to be
successful it had to runvertically and you had to keep
(22:03):
moving up.
And if you stop moving up,you're probably not.
You know, you stop beingsuccessful right, and, as I
imagine, everyone, a lot ofpeople starting off when you
come out of university, probablyhave that thought.
That myth is right.
You know, I need to be jumpingthat corporate pattern going up
and up.
But I think if somebody said tome look, this isn't just
vertical, you can have successmoving horizontally.
Take those sideways moves, youknow, grow your skill set, learn
(22:27):
, you know, new areas and newknowledge, because that in
itself one makes you a morerounded person and makes you
successful.
But it also opens up moreopportunities, and that's
certainly what I found.
You know, opportunities havecome from those sideways moves.
So I think someone, if someonehas sat me down and said look,
success isn't just moving up,you know, success is much more
rounded than that thatdefinitely would have set me
(22:49):
well.
So yeah, I'd share that withfolks.
Simone.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Thanks, michael and Ivana.
What advice would you give thatyoung fine art student or that
architecture professional?
What advice would you give themwith their aspiring to enter
the finance industry or not surewhich industry they want to go
into?
Speaker 2 (23:07):
well, do you know what?
I think it's so much advice, um, but uh, um, I.
I mean, firstly I'd say, uh,and this is trying not to sound
too much, too old, but whenyou're young you still got your
whole life ahead of you.
Don't decide what you have todo at the start.
Leave your options open.
That's okay.
And a little bit to michael'spoint, you don't have to have
(23:30):
this strict career path you haveto stick to.
You can have a wiggly line, andthat might mean changing job
types or even industries, but Imean around finance.
I think the biggest thing Iwould I would tell that
architecture student is thatfinance isn't all about
accounting and trading.
There's those preconceptions.
Right, you need to be aneconomist or a mathematician,
(23:51):
and that just isn't true.
There are so many differenttypes of roles within the
finance industry andparticularly if you look at an
organization the size of Bank ofAmerica, we employ people with
such a diverse skill set andthere are so many different
roles, career trajectories.
You know we have engineers, wehave very technical coders, and
(24:15):
then we will have lawyers andclient service specialists, or
auditors and risk experts.
So such a variety of roles andthe great thing is, you can vary
your career and you know, asMichael said, he had eight.
You know eight roles in 16years.
You can move around and that'sgood and you learn and you can
decide along the way what reallysort of suits you.
(24:37):
And I think the best advice Ican give your goal should be to
find something you're good atand that you enjoy doing, and if
you can merge those two to findsomething like that, you have
literally hit the jackpot.
And then it's not about gettinga corporate title or moving up
a trajectory, because thenyou're enjoying and giving back
(24:59):
and you're good at it, so thatcareer will almost naturally
move with you.
So I'd say don't have a strictidea of what you need to be.
Be open to opportunities and gowith the flow a bit.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Enjoy the adventure.
Exactly, talking of adventure,michael, what was your highlight
of your trip to Everest BaseCamp last year?
That's a tough one, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (25:24):
That is a tough one.
Yeah, I mean that was.
It's a cliche to say it's atrip of a lifetime, but it was a
trip of a lifetime.
Yeah, no, it was incredible.
I mean I think you can't evendescribe words, don't do it
justice when you actually seeEverest up close and the views
and scenery and stuff around itwas next level.
(25:45):
I know what I would say iscertainly the challenge of
dealing with altitude ishorrific and is not to be
underestimated.
So that definitely was achallenge to deal with.
But yeah, I mean feeling whenwe actually sort of reached
there, we've got.
You know, you hit base camp,you can see the other sort of
guys on the expedition actuallygoing off to do sort of proper
(26:07):
Everest, the real mountaineers,not just us pathetic hikers Like
that was great to see as well.
So, yeah, honestly, such a goodtrip that and we're even I'm
very fortunate, next year is my15th permanent year at the bank,
um, and they, they provide asabbatical program.
(26:27):
So in 15th year you get an extrafour weeks paid holiday that
you can use as a block.
So I am already looking atgoing back to the himalayas
again next year, um to hit up adifferent uh, a different summit
called uh island peak, which isa little bit higher, a little
bit more challenging.
So hopefully that will be evenbetter, simone, than Everest
Base Camp.
Have me back next year and I'lltell you all about it.
Speaker 1 (26:50):
We absolutely will, scaling great heights in your
career.
Ivana, michael, thank you somuch.
We've taught resilience.
We've taught leadership.
We've taught leaning intoopportunities.
We've talked about not having aplan right at the start.
So many tips, so many tote bags, so many t-shirts to put those
messages on.
And, of course, we need moremichaels uh, iran and michael.
Thank you so much for joiningme.
(27:11):
Thank you for all the supportwe gain from the bank of america
.
Massive thank you for being onthe we are power podcast.
Thank you, thanks, and thankall of you for listening.
Please do stay connected on allof our socials Twitter,
instagram and Twitter, Twitter,instagram and TikTok even we are
power underscore net andFacebook and LinkedIn.
We are power.
(27:32):
Please leave a review, get intouch, join the conversation.
We love hearing from you.
My name is Simone.
This is the we Are Powerpodcast of what Goes on Media
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