September 23, 2025 • 53 mins
The Armenian wine trade, like the rest of the wine world, has headwinds and maybe a bit more than the more established countries and regions where wine is well known and respected. You have to add to the mix of struggles; unknown grape varietals, no port of entry, unknown regions and 75 years of Soviet oppression.
Enter Zara Muradyan; a wine romanticist and proud Armenian vintner. She is fast becoming the one to know in the wine trade out of Armenia and possibly single-handedly recruited the famed and infamous Concours Mondial de Bruxelles International wine tasting to Yerevan, Armenia in May of 2026.
It took a bit, but Wine Talks sat with Zara to hear her perspective.
Zara Nuradyan can hardly believe it herself: in just fifteen years, Armenia has gone from a forgotten wine outpost—where the post-Soviet legacy meant brandy trumped wine—to a vibrant, world-class wine region inviting international acclaim. In this episode, you’ll discover how Zara, the dynamic director of the Vine and Wine Foundation of Armenia and founder of Zara Wines, is not only championing Armenia’s ancient winemaking heritage but also steering its modern renaissance. You’ll hear how the country, armed with indigenous grapes like Areni and Voskahat, is shaking off its low-profile past to carve out a place on the international wine map—and why you might just see Armenian bottles on the tables of Tokyo, Los Angeles, or at your next masterclass. From government investment and educational initiatives to the role of diaspora and global tastings, Zara pulls back the curtain on how Armenia unites old-world traditions and new-world ambition, even courting major international competitions right in Yerevan. You’ll get an insider’s look at the challenges and headwinds, the heady joys of a growing industry, and the story of how passion, terroir, and a can-do spirit have created not just better wine, but a new cultural touchstone for Armenians at home and abroad. If you’ve ever doubted that a “brand new ancient” wine country could dazzle the global stage, Zara’s journey will leave you uncorking more than a few assumptions—and maybe reaching for a bottle of something you’ve never tasted before.
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Zara Wines (founded by Zara Nuradyan)
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Website: Not specifically listed in the transcript, but based on the company name, the most likely official site is: https://zarawines.com/
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Geisenheim University (collaborator in founding the Wine Academy in Armenia)
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Website: https://www.hs-geisenheim.de/
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Karas Wines (a key Armenian wine producer mentioned)
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Website: https://karaswines.com/
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Alexandria Winery (producer in Armenia)
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Website: https://alexandriawines.com/
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Vine and Wine Foundation of Armenia (Zara is the director)
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Website: https://armeniamwinefoundation.com/ or https://vwfa.am/
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Icare Foundation (collaborator for the Wine Academy)
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Website: https://icare.am/
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YouTube: https://youtu.be/4hLWvOPDjZw
#ArmenianWine #WineIndustry #WineTourism #WineEducation #IndigenousGrapeVarieties #WineHistory #WineRenaissance #Armenia #WinePodcast #WineCulture #InternationalWineMarket #WineExport #WineFoundation #WineMaking #WinePromotion #WineEvents #WineFestivals #zarawines #zaramuradyan #WineInnovation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Armenia can allow itself to produce
entry level wines with a very cheap
price. So we are positioning us as a quality wine
producing country. The price of our wines is not so
cheap. The wines are really very good and it's worth to pay
for example 10, 15 Euro for the bottle of Armenian
(00:22):
wine. Sit back and grab a glass. It's
Wine Talks with Paul K.
Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kane. We are in studio today in beautiful
Southern California, a little late in the evening actually about to have a conversation
with Zara Muradian. Introductions in a minute. Hey, have a listen
to actually her husband, Vagan. Vagan, I didn't even know
(00:45):
that name. And it was a great conversation we had. He was in
studio visiting Los Angeles and I think if you go back a couple
episodes you'll find it and have a, a really interesting
perspective after today's conversation. But Zara
is the director of the vine and Wine foundation in Armenia as
well as the founder of Zara Wines. Welcome to the show. Thank
(01:06):
you, Bertien. You're welcome. You know,
we did work hard to do this, so I'm glad we could do it.
We are really very happy having this opportunity to talk with you.
Yes, thank you. We. It was interesting. I, I listened to the
seminar yesterday that was put on by
(01:27):
the Panossian regarding the state of
the Armenian wine industry and it had the regular players.
Vahekshkari was on it, Amy was listening,
Adam Klavanyan was on the show.
And there are a couple of things that I thought were interesting that I
didn't. Well, I wouldn't say I didn't know, but
(01:50):
it was a different perspective. One of them was this idea
where the Georgians think that they started wine and the
Armenians think they started wine. And the concept kind of came
out that there was no Georgia then and there was no Armenia and there
was no Turkey and there was no Iran. It was just a lot of land.
What's your position on that? We are
(02:13):
positioning us as an ancient wine
country because of this rich heritage,
historical things and every. And in Armenia you can
discover more and more that proving that Armenia is one of
the oldest wine country. So but at the same
time, especially in Soviet period,
(02:35):
we became as a brand producing country, fortunately for
us, but unfortunately for the wine producing,
we lost at that time of our grape variety for the
winemaking. And the renaissance started
let's say in these 15 years
due to this new investment, due to these nice
(02:58):
people who are doing the really they making efforts
to produce good quality wine now,
let's say the same time it's a old.
It's a newest country for the winemaking. Yes, we have
these old traditions, everything like we are trying to keep
this. At the same time the sector is booming during
(03:21):
these 15 years. So what is happening inside of the
country is happening during these 15 years. And we see that how the
sector is developing and developing very fast. And
we really trying to promote Armenia
as one of the best quality wine producing
country. At the same time promoting our heritage. The
(03:43):
history and the oldest winery in
Arenuanque discovered in this
region. So it's again proof that Armenia is
one of the ancient wine countries. They are not saying that
Georgia or Greece, Lebanon, they are not
older than Armenia. But these countries there they
(04:05):
have this really charitage or the winemaking. So
now trying to keep this promoting us as a
modern country was producing really
very good quality wine based on our
varieties to technologies etc. What we are trying to
use during our. It's interesting because
(04:28):
we were there in 2007. I think I brought this up with
Vagan. It was almost undrinkable
and to see the progress in such a short amount of time. Because
wine is a very slow industry, as you know.
And here there are some. I would consider many of the
wines out of Armenia right now as world class wines. They
(04:50):
can hold up in anything. And I pour many at my home
without. Without recognizing to my guests that they're
Armenian wines. Yeah. And they always ask the question.
Yeah. It's become very popular during these five years
that we're trying to promote our wines in different
international platforms and exhibitions. We send our wines
(05:14):
for the different competitions. Every time we get
awards from this competition is rising awareness of Armenian wine.
Because no one know that Armenia is producing wine. Even in
post Soviet countries. The people they know that we have not very
good quality branding. But about wine there is no any
information, knowledge, etc. Trying to rise
(05:36):
awareness of our sector. Where did your
interest in this come from?
Like I'm a knowledge my background, I'm winemaker and
I started my own professional
way from the education. I did my PhD
and I was teaching at university during 25
(05:58):
years. So and when we
decided to start, let's say development
wine sector, we started from education. We were
thinking that we need professionals in this
sphere. So and we founded the Wine
(06:18):
Academy with Icare and seminar
company. We founded the Wine Academy with the
Geisenheim University. Why we decided to do with
the International University because we were thinking that this
exchange program will be very, very helpful for our young
generation to get this international experience.
(06:41):
So we founded this Academy in
2014. Let's say everything started from this
our educational program, because
we were inviting many international experts and we were
sending our students for the internship in different
wineries and universities. And now I'm really
(07:03):
proudly presenting our
young specialists who are working
in the sector and supporting to
develop this sector. Everything
started from the education and
thanks to our investors that they are. They were working
(07:26):
with the international consultant who were very interested
to come to Armenia and to support our producers to
approve the quality of the wine. And these
y people, they were working with this international consultant
iron the wineries. And now, without any support, they are
continuing their,
(07:50):
how to say, the work in their minor
education. The second, let's say,
support for the sector. It's our foundation.
When the sector became priority for the economy, the
government decided to find special
organization who will work with the sector with the
(08:14):
producer, with the wine growers, with the education
institutions, et cetera, to see how we
can support them to improve all these
aspects for the development of the sector. And we
actively started to work with the whole sector, all
(08:35):
producers, supporting them to present the wines in different,
as I mentioned, different platforms. We are actively
participating or international exhibitions. We are
doing many promotional events, master classes. We are inviting many
influencers, wine experts like we organizing
B2B meetings for the producers that they
(09:00):
support them to export the wine to different for us the
targeted market and also
supporting to develop the wine tourism, because it's something new for us
and it's developing. We can see that many, many tourists now they come
to Armenia to discover as a wine destination
country is a wine destination. So. And we see how actively
(09:23):
our producers, the wineries, they are investing
in wine tourism businesses because many
people, they. They want to come to discover, to stay in the
region, to see what we have in
region, not only the wine production, the winers, but also this historical
(09:44):
places where again they can discover more about our
history and traditions. So it is developing and we are
doing many projects also in wine tourings and
trying also support the
institutions for developing the education. For example,
we supported them to implement the dual
(10:06):
education in the colleges where students will study
and also work in their wineries and will get more
experience in practical
practices, et cetera. So we are evolved in the whole.
There's a lot of things going on there. Yes, and
(10:27):
we see the results because it's became very attractive
for a very interesting country.
The young Armenian adults. I mean, this is. As we discussed
earlier, this is a slow business. You only do it once
a year. And so it's interesting to hear that
there's youth, young adults that are interested
(10:50):
because it takes generations
for it to work. And like I said earlier, it's amazing what I mean is
done in such a short amount of time. What. Where are the tourists coming from?
Are they Diasporan Armenians or are they.
Yeah, mostly the funds come from the
Armenians from abroad like. But we have also
(11:13):
foreigner foreign investors as well because
we have very for us
important partner. Jacob
Suler is from Switzerland and we
decided to invest in Armenia as a one of the nation country.
He traveled motor and he
(11:36):
decided to invest in Armenia and they. They really
produce very good quality wine and. And for us we really proud
of this because it's international
investor and and
investing much in the wine business. Now they
are also working to develop the wine tourism.
(11:58):
They invite many tourists from
partners France, from Switzerland and
they come not just to discover the
sugar's wines but also discover the whole
Armenia. For us it's really very important and we
are really very open and government is supporting for the investors
(12:21):
and trying to solve many problems that they are
facing during the investment. The government is really
supporting much the investors and I think
it's due to this investment store
the sector became very, very attractive and
impressive. How old is the vine
(12:44):
and Wine Foundation? Because I remember it wasn't that long ago the government
didn't seem to be that interested in what was going on. But it
sounds like the sector of wine has become an important
feature and area of concern
for the government. Yeah, it's founded in
2016 in August.
(13:05):
So already eight years that we are working in the
foundation and trying to develop
the sector. So I think for the
producer it's really very important organization because
we united all producers together. Before even they
didn't know each other. But due to
(13:27):
this work that we are
doing project that we are doing with the winemakers
they became very good friends.
Because it's really very interesting. For
example, when we are presenting the wine on
some exhibition. Let's say we are not just
(13:50):
promoting. They are not just promoting their wines, they are promoting the country,
they are promoting the sector, they are supporting each other.
It's really very important for us. And it's the. Let's say
it's the only organization
the sector. Sorry that you can see that all together
(14:11):
as one nice family working for one
mission to promote the country as a winemaking country.
And it's helped us very much to
do more productive project
in the field. Because otherwise if they will. If
(14:31):
I will feel that they don't want to work together
or they don't want to be in the same thread. For Mercer Pink, it's not
doing in the right way. We will never get this
successful results. And I'm really very
thankful to them because they help me
and they support me and we become more stronger together.
(14:55):
You know, it's interesting. We have all the years I
tasted wine, I was invited obviously to many, many, many
tastings. I went to one, I'm going to one next week. I went to one
last week. And many of them are put
on by the region. So let's just
say the Paso Roblest Vendors association or Napa
(15:17):
Valley. And you know, you need money from
those organizations. Is the government funding all this
work or is it coming from the winemakers themselves or where is it coming from?
The budget comes from the government. So the
government supports the
biggest part of the budget. But also the winemakers, they
(15:41):
are investing in different projects.
And also we are bringing
budgets from the international organizations as well,
from GIs, from the German government, first from
the ARM, because we were actively working with
USAID. They started to support the sector, but
(16:04):
unfortunately it's closed. But trying
to also bring money from different international
organizations and also flying from different
grants especially to do some researches, et cetera.
So trying to bring more as we can.
And the producers is also
(16:27):
participating in this process and such.
But the most budget comes from the government. And we
have the board, the five
members of the board from the government and
six members from the government and five from the private sector.
It's a really very interesting platform that they all
(16:50):
together discussing the importance of the sector
and of the project. And after that, when
they approved the project, we are starting the implementation
process. That sounds like
a great balance because I think
it's important that the winemakers in the private sector have
(17:12):
representation on a board like that in
America. They actually in some
cases will tax the vintners so
that there's some kind of fun coming from the grape
harvest by the ton, whatever it is. And then that money
goes into the government pool and then the vintners
(17:34):
get to decide how they want to promote it. So
besides Russia, which we know is a great market for Armenian wines
and part of that whole original USSR breakup,
the efforts of the vine and Wine foundation have brought in
Europeans, Chinese. Where, where, where are the new
markets that you've seen Armenian wines land?
(18:00):
China, as you mentioned, Russia is
our. The biggest market, 85% we are
exporting to Russia. But it's
very complicated market for us because
of this political situation, et cetera. Et cetera.
So for that we are trying to
(18:23):
discover new market for our producer. The second market for us
is us
because maybe because of the diaspora, because
it's a wine consuming country and
they want to discover interesting wine from
(18:44):
new regions, etc. For us is really very huge
opportunity to present in US market. At the
same time we are actively again because of maybe the air
sprint satire we are sailing in
some European countries. It's France with
Italy, it's Belgium, it's Germany. So every year we
(19:05):
were participating. On. Probain,
it's one of the biggest international exhibition.
But next year we will not participate. We will go to Vimex
Pro Pairings because this exhibition became more international
than Provane and they will try to present
there. And for us,
(19:28):
you know, the volume of our production is not so big
and we are printing and we are not. Armenia
can't allow itself to produce non quality
entry level, let's say wines with a very
cheap price. So we are positioning us as a quality
(19:50):
wine producing country and the price of our
wines is not so cheap, let's say.
I'm not saying that it's expensive but
that the wines is really very important. It's worth to pay for
example 10, 15 Euro for the bottle of Armenian wine.
So for that for us it's really very interesting.
(20:12):
The countries which are wine consuming countries,
they can allow them to drink good
quality wines of wine. And based on this we are participating
in different, as I mentioned, Iran.
There we can present the wine and to open the doors for our wines
it's England, uk, it's
(20:36):
Japan that we were this year
first time we participated on exhibition and we see that they
really very much like our wine. And it's the first time
that we sit and after exhibition at Tylist,
our producers started negotiation with the importers
to start the business, et cetera. So I think the Japan
(20:59):
is for us interesting market. It's a European and new
countries in the uk. But the second market for sure it's the
US and unfortunately we
are not so much active in US market because of the
budget. Last time we participated in
New York for the exhibition and
(21:21):
it's. It's. It was really very expensive. And now
we are making strategy
especially for US market and it will
be actual plan that how we are, what we are
doing and how we are entering this market. But
for us the second important market is us.
(21:44):
You know, it's a. You said a lot of important things then,
one of them being the fact that Armenia is not going to try
and compete you know, in the yellow tail floor stack,
you know, $5, in this case, wines, because
it's a very competitive market. But the market is very competitive
already. And with the consolidation of distributors in America,
(22:06):
particularly Los Angeles, it's not any easier than it was
before. But I was just thinking,
I just got an invitation two days ago to a Georgian
tasting put on by a local
psalm who's very well known. He's got a very big list. And I'm going to
sort of float this idea to you because Guinea Fest is coming.
(22:30):
But Guinea Fest is turned away from being just a
wine show. It's more of a cultural show, which is great. I think the
new location on the street is going to make it more of a festival,
which is really good. But one of the things that I tried to impress
upon Anoush and
Stepan Partamian was if you wanted to promote
(22:52):
the Armenian wine consumption at restaurants, particularly,
we need to get the buyers to come taste the wines. Yeah.
And typically in America, I would be invited two
hours before the rest of the trade
so I could taste wine without anybody bothering me and get through
a lot of wines. You know, I would do a hundred wines in one thing.
(23:16):
And that's probably not going to happen this time with Guinea Fest. But the point
I want to make is, wow, I'm being invited to a Georgian only
tasting. Do you think that that would happen
through the government of Armenia? Maybe in five.
Maybe in five cities in America, New York, Dallas,
Los Angeles, Denver, whatever. That you
(23:39):
would organize a place and
time for buyers, people that buy wine to
taste wine. We had this experience and
we were discussing with the guinea fest organizer, Angers,
Mr. Pan, how we can be involved in these, Francis,
and how we can professionally promote the wines. Because
(24:01):
it's. For example, we have this
wine dance festival. It's one of the hugest festival in
Armenia. But somehow just
to meet the professional people in this festival is impossible
because it's crowdy, so many people, they come
the music, etc. They don't allow them to discuss with the
(24:25):
producer to get more knowledge and information about their
wines. So for that we are organizing
master classes for professionals. Unfortunately, we
didn't. We haven't done looking in us yet,
but we had this experience with European countries. We organized the
roadshow. So last year we visited
(24:47):
different countries and we were presenting,
doing the presentation for the whole country, for the
wine sector. We were talking about our
regions, about our grape varieties, about technologies,
traditions, etc. And after that, the producer,
they are presenting their wines and giving
(25:09):
more Information about the wines and about their company.
And after that we were organizing B2B meetings
that we gave them platform to meet with these
experts and to negotiate with
them to get this, to have this
(25:31):
exchange conversations in Century Century. So
it's helped them to get first to it
for us. First to promote the country, the second to give
the platform for the business,
the exchange and also to rise up
(25:52):
rooms of Armenia and buy the company rights.
It's really. And after this event
we organized visits to different shops
and the boutique shops and
supermarkets were presented. They want to give this also information
to our producer to understand who are the competitors in
(26:14):
this country, how the price policies
happening in this country, et cetera, to meet with the
people are selling the wine, to understand how they are
selling, what kind of tools they should use, what kind of marketing tools
they should use for promoting their wines, etc. It was
(26:34):
really very good experience for our producers. And we are
now trying to continue this. And we will be very happy that
if we will have opportunity to do the same in US market to
meet all these people. Because sitting here and thinking
about US Market, what we can do, not knowing these people
in the market, it's really very difficult to enter to this
(26:56):
market. So for that we need to organize more activities in US
Market and it will help our producers to
get more information about markets,
this specific market, et cetera. You know, it's
a. The main issue
that has always been the wine is an
(27:20):
emotional decision. It's an emotional
product. I tasted a bar stack
not too long ago or the tasting Mouton Rashield
tasting. And my comment to the presenter was this
is one of the most emotional smell
noses I've ever put my nose into a glass. And it was after
(27:41):
35 years of doing this that was. It
stopped me in my tracks. And that. That made me think a lot
about, you know, why it takes so long, why people are
hesitant to try these things. And I'm going to
switch gears on you a little bit. And this conversation
came up in the seminar I listened to this morning,
(28:04):
but it's always been around. And I'm going to tell you a story about a
Moldavian wine that came here, Maybe it was 30 years
ago, and it was called Hickory Ridge, which is a very
American, Southern American thing to say. And
it, and it, it said. And the label said
Cabernet Sauvignon on it, okay. And then on the back it said
(28:26):
bottled in
New York or they did everything they could
to not tell you it was Moldavian
by the name and by the bottling statement and all the government stuff
until it said, you know, produced in Moldavia or grapes from
Moldova. I can't remember exactly what it was. And that leads me to this
(28:48):
conversation about, you know, the Armenians were a very proud country. We have
the grapes, the indigenous grapes are amazing. They can make really
great wines. But then there's that whole concept
about indigenous grapes and explaining them. Another
headwind, another, you know, another requirement to
educate the consumer versus let's
(29:12):
put some Chardonnay in the bottle and let's get some Merlot and some Cabernet and
let's see what happens. What's your position? I know you
make Adeni and Voskahat and Hungun and the, you know, the
regular indigenous grapes, but what is the
government's take on this? What's the vine and Wines foundation on the
idea of presenting French varietals
(29:34):
from Armenian soil?
We are really based
on our indigenous varieties because
we have this huge biodiversity. When
the FAO supported
(29:55):
us to plan the collection venue, they brought
all these samples from different vineyards
and they planted the vineyard. When I became
to this position, we decided to do genotype and phenotype
analysis to understand what we have in this collection vineyard. And
we understood that we have many really very interesting
(30:17):
grape varieties that even we don't use it, and even
they don't have the name either, these varieties.
Now we gave the passports to this
variety and we register it in international
database that it's Armenian indigenous
(30:37):
or local varieties. Now we are trying
to discover more and more and also to
do through the microvinification, to see the potential of
this grape for the winemaking and to promote this wine. But for
us, the visiting cup, it's Areny, it's
Voskihat, it's Kafet, it's Chendormi. There's all
(30:59):
indigenous varieties that approve that quality. The
wine made from this variety is really very impressive
and interesting. So I'm trying to promote this grape
and also the investors, they are planting the wine with
this grape variety. We have another also
practice that, you know, the Renaissance,
(31:21):
let's say Renaissance of Armenia started from
different companies. For us is most important.
One is the Karas. The Karas, when they decided to
invest in wine business, Mr. Ermikian,
at that time when they started the business, we
still don't have the nurseries, and they couldn't find the
(31:44):
nurseries based on Armenian indigenous varieties. And they decided to
to bring in Armenia the international
varieties. And it was the first, let's say, the quality
wine in the country made from
this grape variety by Gara's company, that shows that
we have this huge potential for the winemaking. But
(32:07):
nowadays, even the Garas, they're using
international, using indigenous varieties. They are doing interesting
blending because for the consumer, for the international
consumers, it's interesting to discover the wines based on
their indigenous and local varieties. For that
now we are very much as a government promoting our
(32:29):
indigenous varieties. And we see that we have huge potential using
our local varieties. Not so much bringing international
varieties, but some producer, for example,
Alexandria Winery, Adam Kaplanian, they decided to start a
business based on international varieties. And it's one of the best
chart in Armenia that really, when they are presenting
(32:51):
this word, Chandonia for Armenia, it's recently, it's
really very interesting. The people want to see what is
Armenia Chardonnayan.
But let's say it's
97% of
vineyards, they are based
(33:15):
the local varieties, etc. So I think having
this opportunity, having this, let's say heritage wine will
not use and promote our local varieties instead of using
international varieties. But we are not saying that it's not
interesting or the quality is not good,
but trying to promote. And we are doing the
(33:37):
project based on indigenous. Right.
It's really interesting couple. You
should see this. There are like these different
altitudes. The highest altitude in Valozone,
it's in Vallestone. You will see this view
with the small things and thermals, volcanic soil and so
(34:00):
many interesting varieties that you can find in this
region. And now we are working with
the producers to have the first GI in
Vayo region. Because we don't have geographic
indications, et cetera. We are now working to have the first
GI biostore because the thermal is really
(34:22):
amazing, not only in Biostar, in all wine
regions. It's really very interesting. And because of the
climate, because of the soil type, because of
technology, because of the people. When I was doing the review,
what impressed you much was that the people,
the winemakers, the people, what they are doing is
(34:44):
amazing. They are doing everything with the
heart, with the emotions, as you mentioned, it's
emotional product. And it's really
nothing that you just present the wine
on online platforms or you're just talking about
is not tasting. It's something totally different.
(35:06):
When they meet with the winemakers, when they talk with the
winemakers, when they visit their vineyards and they see
how much effort they are putting
in this business, it's really interesting.
You know, I just. You trigger a thought and
I see, I see everybody on this show.
(35:28):
I mean, I've done almost 500 episodes. So I've
quite, quite a variety of people and
it can only be from passion, particularly in the
Armenian case. I mean, it takes passion to be in this
business anyway. But I see two types of passion. I see business
passion where somebody's trying to create a unique package. Or
(35:52):
there's a woman in here just recently got
her wines into Whole Foods and they're in a
375 bottle that looks like a vast water bottle.
That's. That's business passion because the wine inside is
okay. But if you're an Armenian winemaker, not
only do you have to have passion to do it as a
(36:14):
winemaker, but you know, you've got many more headwinds in this industry
than the regular if you're, than if you're in Napa or if you're in Bordeaux
or Burgundy, because you're starting from scratch everywhere.
Juliana. You know, one of my early podcasts
with, with an Armenian winemaker was Juliana, and she was
talking about Michel Roland coming to the Arad Valley
(36:36):
and saying, you can grow grapes here.
It'll take us a hundred years to figure out what it
can do in the reality. To me it's,
you know, been what, 20 years. You. They've figured out
a lot of things since then. And because it's a unique
situation, it really is old world, right? I mean,
(36:59):
6,100 years old at least. But because
of the USSR, it's really new world in
its approach because we're just learning.
And I will say that Adam's wines, the Chardonnay in
particular, was very modern. You know, I tasted
last week. They had a very modern character.
(37:22):
And that's great for some people, it's great for some markets. And then
you've got, for instance, the Voskavas Karasi collection,
which has a very expressive old world character. And I love
them all.
So how is it then? I mean, how
did we get the Concourmundia de Buxe
(37:45):
to recognize Armenia as a place to come and do
this magnanimous international tasting? How did that happen?
Did you do that?
In 2018
I got invitation to become as a judge in Congressman Die.
(38:05):
And it was my first experience to participate participate in this international
competition. And in 2019,
I just have this nice conversation with the organizer.
If they are interested to organize, it's in Armenia
at that time. They said it's good, but we should understand that
(38:26):
Armenia is really wine country. Like you have this
old facilities and potential to
organize a in Armenia, et cetera. I
invited them to come, but after that Covid started in Switzerland,
but I again came with this
request to them. And we became very good friends of the
(38:49):
organizers. They asked them just come to Armenia. I just
invite you as my friend, as guests to come to Armenia
and to see what is Armenia and just discover
by yourself the country. And after that we will talk about
opportunity to watch the competition. At that time, I
was 100% sure that they will be
(39:10):
impressed. Wow. Usually it's
happened, I'm saying the
whole sector, not only the foundation, what we are doing, we are
doing with a very open heart and emotions. We are really very
patient. As you mentioned,
I remember that when I first time invited
(39:33):
the journalism from the Forbes magazine and he wrote me
that okay, I will come, but I don't promise you that I will
write something about Armenia. And
just. You must know that no one
will not know that I am the journalist from Forbes
magazine. Like I just coming as a guest. And if
(39:55):
I will be impressed, if you will impress me, I will
write something. No, I'm not. I promise you that you will
have our article that can come.
Wow, very exciting. And he too, he wrote after his visit,
he wrote two articles about Armenia and he became
very good friend of ours. And he's promoting us and
(40:18):
supporting us. Whenever we need something, he is helping us. So.
And the same happened with mondial. I was 100% sure that
if they would decide to come to Armenia, we will impress.
And so they came. They really very much like the country, the
people. And I showed them the facilities, everything
(40:38):
that for them or that
time was really important to make the decisions, the venue
and such. If we had enough venue to organize this
competition, if we have like as a country, we are
interested because it's somehow. It's
one business, let's say, because we are inviting
(41:00):
many voters, buyers, journalists, et cetera. But
at the same time, it's for us a good opportunity to promote
the country. So when they see that we have
many interesting historical places, the city is
really very nice, that the gastronomy is good in center.
After that they decided. Then they got the
(41:22):
request from different countries as well, from
Georgia too. But they decided
to organize it in Armenia. And
we were with our minister, Minister of Economy
in China. And we officially announced
that the next year Armenia route was the competition
(41:47):
for us. It's not only just to make
the business platform for our producers. For
us is more important to promote the country, to
promote our wines in the wine region and to
get our position in Winelab
that Armenia is also winemaking country,
(42:12):
very good quality wines. And
yes, why not when we are talking about
our history, like when we are talking about these 600,
6000, 100 years winemaking traditions.
Everyone, just the second question is why we don't
know you if you have this history and
(42:34):
traditions, why we don't know about Armenian. So it's a good
opportunity for them to, instead of talking about
our traditions, country etched, to
give this gamut opportunity to come and to discover the country.
And also trying. Now we are working
on agenda and trying to make agenda
(42:58):
not only for the
guests, but also for local people as well. Because
every time after interviews I give me this question why
I am talking about things. But when I do the
interview and talking about this, I want to also
(43:19):
say that fortunately it's
developing in the country, but wine
consumption in local market is not so high. We have huge
potential even in local market. But
still our fathers, our grandfathers, they
drink vodka. And now we are competing with
(43:42):
vodka and trying to change this culture in local market.
So this competition will also give
us opportunity once again to
present in local market. This is our,
let's say, national
drink. It's a national for us. It's not just
(44:05):
alcoholic beverage. It's culture, it's history,
it's tourism. And we will
try to bring local people with these international people
together and to give this
nice mood to everyone that they can feel that this
is one country, the wine. Well, I already got my room
(44:28):
at the Alexandria for five days, so we're
ready to come. But it has, you know, we're almost out of time
already. Can you believe that? But I did want to. I did
want to know, like since this happened and I've seen some press, I've
seen some stuff. Civil Net did something. I think
that Zartun Media did a couple things, but the rest
(44:51):
of the world that has there been a positive,
a positive response to the awarding of
the. Of the tasting in Yerevan.
People as the press embraced this and said, hey, this is a
great thing. Yeah, yeah. Because during
these 10 years we are
(45:14):
actively supporting and organizing the festivals,
many master classes, many educational
programs, like we even
have TV program about winemaking,
about wines, about regions, etc.
Trying to also promote
(45:36):
our wines in local market. So, and we
see that, you know,
the consumption is increasing. Like in 2014
it was 1.2,
but in
2022
(46:01):
this became worldwide 22, it's like
25. It became almost fast. Literally, it's not
we want to reach, but the same time we see that, we see
that it's increased, but
it's. It's Became lifestyle. It's
became for the young, especially for the young generation.
(46:24):
It's somehow lifestyle too because we have so many
wine bars, restaurants like
and they promoting the wine. The people just like to see
the outside and drink the wine. But it's not
my niche to which I want that Armenians
(46:45):
also drink the wine at their home
during the dinner, during the lunch, etc. Not only in the restaurant
and wine bars outside of the
home, but also inside of their
houses, their home with the family, with the friends, friends, et cetera.
So now we actually want to
(47:09):
promote it as well. Yeah. You know, it's
interesting because I when I give speeches, etc, I I start
with usually saying something like if you were to try
and define a culture, you probably pick
a language which Armenia has a language. You pick land, if you still
have land, Armea has land. You would pick cuisine
(47:32):
and maybe music and then wine. Or not in that order
necessarily. But wine certainly is an expression and
should be and always will be an expression of a culture.
And having you on the show, huh.
So just remember that one of our producer
from Van we had a discussion with the
(47:55):
politics and we are talking about importance of the sector, et
cetera. And Frances had this is not the
tech business that you can close
your notebook and go to Dubai and
work somewhere. So this is the business that we
investing so much maybe for our
(48:18):
grandchilds and such because
it's a long term investment and we are
not only investing for our business, we are investing in the region.
We are creating this brand like the
tourism is also developing
because of the production etc. Etc. So as you mentioned was
(48:40):
just not the product. This is
something totally different and they
should understand this. There are people who are making
decisions. I'm going to tell you a story and
then we'll finish. Then I want you to stay on just a couple
minutes. But I had a master
(49:02):
sommelier here and there's only 400 in the world. And
he's a very well known. His name is Emmanuel Kamigi. He makes wine in
Pirarat, Spain. And he went to the a very
famous wine shop in California, in Sacramento, owned by
Darrell Corte, who's a very well known, probably one of the preeminent port
knowledge base in the world. Anyway, what
(49:24):
Darrell poured him was an Armenian wine, I don't know which one.
And Emmanuel Kamiji as a master psalm in his
brain said wow, I've got to learn about this
place because I'd never heard of wines from there.
At the same time he's telling himself and I have to learn how to
compete with them because this wine is really good. And I'm making wine
(49:47):
in Spain and now I have a new competitor, so to speak, in the
marketplace. And that was, I thought that was a very strong and
thought out, you know, response to tasting a good Armenian wine.
People are noticing and people are seeing it. A guy like him that gets to
taste them and say that to himself is telling you a lot.
And so it's been a, it's been such a pleasure. It's already been almost an
(50:10):
hour to have you on. Maybe we'll do it again in Armenia when we
come and visit you. I want to use this opportunity
and invite you to come and to be one of the
judges of congressman there. I will ask our organizers
send you official vision and you will join
us during this amazing event. And I'm
(50:32):
again sure that you will be impressed of the
country also Hawaiian region and also
have this opportunity to meet the people
from 6, 65 countries.
It'd be an honor to do that. And I've, I'm, I'm humbled by
that comment. I appreciate that and I would certainly
(50:55):
do it. I also wanted to talk to you.
We'll talk about it after we. I turn off the recorder. But
it's just so fascinating and I, it's, it's really exciting
to be, to see it. You know,
I've done this for 35 years and you know, this is the first time
(51:15):
you see an emergence of it. You know, there's New Zealand came on board in
Australia and all that. But this is a real grassroots,
you know, in the, in the, let's call it in the soil
attempt and renaissance of
a wine. And that was a word that Maryam Sagatalian used on a
(51:37):
podcast. And I think that's a great word. It's a renaissance of an industry
that's been. But isn't that weird? It's been around for 6,000 years.
It's a true renaissance. Right? It's really coming back.
We presented in Congressman in
China the country, the oldest New east wine country.
(52:00):
It's also very interesting, the oldest, newest because yes,
we have everything that proving that we are one of the
oldest, even if not the oldest one, but the
same time, to be honest, everything is
happening during these 15 years. And it's amazing that
the result, what we reached during these 15
(52:23):
years. It's amazing. Thanks to our, again, thanks to our winemakers,
thanks to these people who are doing this amazing job and
helping out for our country to be
recognized as a really very good quality mind
processing country. It's such an honor to have
you on the show and I look forward to us meeting in person
(52:45):
soon. And say hi to Vagan for me. I look forward to
chatting with him. I was unable to make his seminar the night
after, and I didn't get a chance to meet your daughter. But I was hoping
to do that. But we will do that, if not
before May. In May. It's in
May. It's. It will be end of the May. It's
(53:07):
19-19-23. So
free. Just put in your calendar and maybe during
this you will get official invitation for us.
We pay on. Well.
Very kind. Thank you. Thank you. And cheers.
Cheers.
Armenia can allow itself to produce
entry level wines with a very cheap
price. So we are positioning us as a quality wine
producing country. The price of our wines is not so
cheap. The wines are really very good and it's worth to pay
for example 10, 15 Euro for the bottle of Armenian
(00:22):
wine. Sit back and grab a glass. It's
Wine Talks with Paul K.
Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul Kane. We are in studio today in beautiful
Southern California, a little late in the evening actually about to have a conversation
with Zara Muradian. Introductions in a minute. Hey, have a listen
to actually her husband, Vagan. Vagan, I didn't even know
(00:45):
that name. And it was a great conversation we had. He was in
studio visiting Los Angeles and I think if you go back a couple
episodes you'll find it and have a, a really interesting
perspective after today's conversation. But Zara
is the director of the vine and Wine foundation in Armenia as
well as the founder of Zara Wines. Welcome to the show. Thank
(01:06):
you, Bertien. You're welcome. You know,
we did work hard to do this, so I'm glad we could do it.
We are really very happy having this opportunity to talk with you.
Yes, thank you. We. It was interesting. I, I listened to the
seminar yesterday that was put on by
(01:27):
the Panossian regarding the state of
the Armenian wine industry and it had the regular players.
Vahekshkari was on it, Amy was listening,
Adam Klavanyan was on the show.
And there are a couple of things that I thought were interesting that I
didn't. Well, I wouldn't say I didn't know, but
(01:50):
it was a different perspective. One of them was this idea
where the Georgians think that they started wine and the
Armenians think they started wine. And the concept kind of came
out that there was no Georgia then and there was no Armenia and there
was no Turkey and there was no Iran. It was just a lot of land.
What's your position on that? We are
(02:13):
positioning us as an ancient wine
country because of this rich heritage,
historical things and every. And in Armenia you can
discover more and more that proving that Armenia is one of
the oldest wine country. So but at the same
time, especially in Soviet period,
(02:35):
we became as a brand producing country, fortunately for
us, but unfortunately for the wine producing,
we lost at that time of our grape variety for the
winemaking. And the renaissance started
let's say in these 15 years
due to this new investment, due to these nice
(02:58):
people who are doing the really they making efforts
to produce good quality wine now,
let's say the same time it's a old.
It's a newest country for the winemaking. Yes, we have
these old traditions, everything like we are trying to keep
this. At the same time the sector is booming during
(03:21):
these 15 years. So what is happening inside of the
country is happening during these 15 years. And we see that how the
sector is developing and developing very fast. And
we really trying to promote Armenia
as one of the best quality wine producing
country. At the same time promoting our heritage. The
(03:43):
history and the oldest winery in
Arenuanque discovered in this
region. So it's again proof that Armenia is
one of the ancient wine countries. They are not saying that
Georgia or Greece, Lebanon, they are not
older than Armenia. But these countries there they
(04:05):
have this really charitage or the winemaking. So
now trying to keep this promoting us as a
modern country was producing really
very good quality wine based on our
varieties to technologies etc. What we are trying to
use during our. It's interesting because
(04:28):
we were there in 2007. I think I brought this up with
Vagan. It was almost undrinkable
and to see the progress in such a short amount of time. Because
wine is a very slow industry, as you know.
And here there are some. I would consider many of the
wines out of Armenia right now as world class wines. They
(04:50):
can hold up in anything. And I pour many at my home
without. Without recognizing to my guests that they're
Armenian wines. Yeah. And they always ask the question.
Yeah. It's become very popular during these five years
that we're trying to promote our wines in different
international platforms and exhibitions. We send our wines
(05:14):
for the different competitions. Every time we get
awards from this competition is rising awareness of Armenian wine.
Because no one know that Armenia is producing wine. Even in
post Soviet countries. The people they know that we have not very
good quality branding. But about wine there is no any
information, knowledge, etc. Trying to rise
(05:36):
awareness of our sector. Where did your
interest in this come from?
Like I'm a knowledge my background, I'm winemaker and
I started my own professional
way from the education. I did my PhD
and I was teaching at university during 25
(05:58):
years. So and when we
decided to start, let's say development
wine sector, we started from education. We were
thinking that we need professionals in this
sphere. So and we founded the Wine
(06:18):
Academy with Icare and seminar
company. We founded the Wine Academy with the
Geisenheim University. Why we decided to do with
the International University because we were thinking that this
exchange program will be very, very helpful for our young
generation to get this international experience.
(06:41):
So we founded this Academy in
2014. Let's say everything started from this
our educational program, because
we were inviting many international experts and we were
sending our students for the internship in different
wineries and universities. And now I'm really
(07:03):
proudly presenting our
young specialists who are working
in the sector and supporting to
develop this sector. Everything
started from the education and
thanks to our investors that they are. They were working
(07:26):
with the international consultant who were very interested
to come to Armenia and to support our producers to
approve the quality of the wine. And these
y people, they were working with this international consultant
iron the wineries. And now, without any support, they are
continuing their,
(07:50):
how to say, the work in their minor
education. The second, let's say,
support for the sector. It's our foundation.
When the sector became priority for the economy, the
government decided to find special
organization who will work with the sector with the
(08:14):
producer, with the wine growers, with the education
institutions, et cetera, to see how we
can support them to improve all these
aspects for the development of the sector. And we
actively started to work with the whole sector, all
(08:35):
producers, supporting them to present the wines in different,
as I mentioned, different platforms. We are actively
participating or international exhibitions. We are
doing many promotional events, master classes. We are inviting many
influencers, wine experts like we organizing
B2B meetings for the producers that they
(09:00):
support them to export the wine to different for us the
targeted market and also
supporting to develop the wine tourism, because it's something new for us
and it's developing. We can see that many, many tourists now they come
to Armenia to discover as a wine destination
country is a wine destination. So. And we see how actively
(09:23):
our producers, the wineries, they are investing
in wine tourism businesses because many
people, they. They want to come to discover, to stay in the
region, to see what we have in
region, not only the wine production, the winers, but also this historical
(09:44):
places where again they can discover more about our
history and traditions. So it is developing and we are
doing many projects also in wine tourings and
trying also support the
institutions for developing the education. For example,
we supported them to implement the dual
(10:06):
education in the colleges where students will study
and also work in their wineries and will get more
experience in practical
practices, et cetera. So we are evolved in the whole.
There's a lot of things going on there. Yes, and
(10:27):
we see the results because it's became very attractive
for a very interesting country.
The young Armenian adults. I mean, this is. As we discussed
earlier, this is a slow business. You only do it once
a year. And so it's interesting to hear that
there's youth, young adults that are interested
(10:50):
because it takes generations
for it to work. And like I said earlier, it's amazing what I mean is
done in such a short amount of time. What. Where are the tourists coming from?
Are they Diasporan Armenians or are they.
Yeah, mostly the funds come from the
Armenians from abroad like. But we have also
(11:13):
foreigner foreign investors as well because
we have very for us
important partner. Jacob
Suler is from Switzerland and we
decided to invest in Armenia as a one of the nation country.
He traveled motor and he
(11:36):
decided to invest in Armenia and they. They really
produce very good quality wine and. And for us we really proud
of this because it's international
investor and and
investing much in the wine business. Now they
are also working to develop the wine tourism.
(11:58):
They invite many tourists from
partners France, from Switzerland and
they come not just to discover the
sugar's wines but also discover the whole
Armenia. For us it's really very important and we
are really very open and government is supporting for the investors
(12:21):
and trying to solve many problems that they are
facing during the investment. The government is really
supporting much the investors and I think
it's due to this investment store
the sector became very, very attractive and
impressive. How old is the vine
(12:44):
and Wine Foundation? Because I remember it wasn't that long ago the government
didn't seem to be that interested in what was going on. But it
sounds like the sector of wine has become an important
feature and area of concern
for the government. Yeah, it's founded in
2016 in August.
(13:05):
So already eight years that we are working in the
foundation and trying to develop
the sector. So I think for the
producer it's really very important organization because
we united all producers together. Before even they
didn't know each other. But due to
(13:27):
this work that we are
doing project that we are doing with the winemakers
they became very good friends.
Because it's really very interesting. For
example, when we are presenting the wine on
some exhibition. Let's say we are not just
(13:50):
promoting. They are not just promoting their wines, they are promoting the country,
they are promoting the sector, they are supporting each other.
It's really very important for us. And it's the. Let's say
it's the only organization
the sector. Sorry that you can see that all together
(14:11):
as one nice family working for one
mission to promote the country as a winemaking country.
And it's helped us very much to
do more productive project
in the field. Because otherwise if they will. If
(14:31):
I will feel that they don't want to work together
or they don't want to be in the same thread. For Mercer Pink, it's not
doing in the right way. We will never get this
successful results. And I'm really very
thankful to them because they help me
and they support me and we become more stronger together.
(14:55):
You know, it's interesting. We have all the years I
tasted wine, I was invited obviously to many, many, many
tastings. I went to one, I'm going to one next week. I went to one
last week. And many of them are put
on by the region. So let's just
say the Paso Roblest Vendors association or Napa
(15:17):
Valley. And you know, you need money from
those organizations. Is the government funding all this
work or is it coming from the winemakers themselves or where is it coming from?
The budget comes from the government. So the
government supports the
biggest part of the budget. But also the winemakers, they
(15:41):
are investing in different projects.
And also we are bringing
budgets from the international organizations as well,
from GIs, from the German government, first from
the ARM, because we were actively working with
USAID. They started to support the sector, but
(16:04):
unfortunately it's closed. But trying
to also bring money from different international
organizations and also flying from different
grants especially to do some researches, et cetera.
So trying to bring more as we can.
And the producers is also
(16:27):
participating in this process and such.
But the most budget comes from the government. And we
have the board, the five
members of the board from the government and
six members from the government and five from the private sector.
It's a really very interesting platform that they all
(16:50):
together discussing the importance of the sector
and of the project. And after that, when
they approved the project, we are starting the implementation
process. That sounds like
a great balance because I think
it's important that the winemakers in the private sector have
(17:12):
representation on a board like that in
America. They actually in some
cases will tax the vintners so
that there's some kind of fun coming from the grape
harvest by the ton, whatever it is. And then that money
goes into the government pool and then the vintners
(17:34):
get to decide how they want to promote it. So
besides Russia, which we know is a great market for Armenian wines
and part of that whole original USSR breakup,
the efforts of the vine and Wine foundation have brought in
Europeans, Chinese. Where, where, where are the new
markets that you've seen Armenian wines land?
(18:00):
China, as you mentioned, Russia is
our. The biggest market, 85% we are
exporting to Russia. But it's
very complicated market for us because
of this political situation, et cetera. Et cetera.
So for that we are trying to
(18:23):
discover new market for our producer. The second market for us
is us
because maybe because of the diaspora, because
it's a wine consuming country and
they want to discover interesting wine from
(18:44):
new regions, etc. For us is really very huge
opportunity to present in US market. At the
same time we are actively again because of maybe the air
sprint satire we are sailing in
some European countries. It's France with
Italy, it's Belgium, it's Germany. So every year we
(19:05):
were participating. On. Probain,
it's one of the biggest international exhibition.
But next year we will not participate. We will go to Vimex
Pro Pairings because this exhibition became more international
than Provane and they will try to present
there. And for us,
(19:28):
you know, the volume of our production is not so big
and we are printing and we are not. Armenia
can't allow itself to produce non quality
entry level, let's say wines with a very
cheap price. So we are positioning us as a quality
(19:50):
wine producing country and the price of our
wines is not so cheap, let's say.
I'm not saying that it's expensive but
that the wines is really very important. It's worth to pay for
example 10, 15 Euro for the bottle of Armenian wine.
So for that for us it's really very interesting.
(20:12):
The countries which are wine consuming countries,
they can allow them to drink good
quality wines of wine. And based on this we are participating
in different, as I mentioned, Iran.
There we can present the wine and to open the doors for our wines
it's England, uk, it's
(20:36):
Japan that we were this year
first time we participated on exhibition and we see that they
really very much like our wine. And it's the first time
that we sit and after exhibition at Tylist,
our producers started negotiation with the importers
to start the business, et cetera. So I think the Japan
(20:59):
is for us interesting market. It's a European and new
countries in the uk. But the second market for sure it's the
US and unfortunately we
are not so much active in US market because of the
budget. Last time we participated in
New York for the exhibition and
(21:21):
it's. It's. It was really very expensive. And now
we are making strategy
especially for US market and it will
be actual plan that how we are, what we are
doing and how we are entering this market. But
for us the second important market is us.
(21:44):
You know, it's a. You said a lot of important things then,
one of them being the fact that Armenia is not going to try
and compete you know, in the yellow tail floor stack,
you know, $5, in this case, wines, because
it's a very competitive market. But the market is very competitive
already. And with the consolidation of distributors in America,
(22:06):
particularly Los Angeles, it's not any easier than it was
before. But I was just thinking,
I just got an invitation two days ago to a Georgian
tasting put on by a local
psalm who's very well known. He's got a very big list. And I'm going to
sort of float this idea to you because Guinea Fest is coming.
(22:30):
But Guinea Fest is turned away from being just a
wine show. It's more of a cultural show, which is great. I think the
new location on the street is going to make it more of a festival,
which is really good. But one of the things that I tried to impress
upon Anoush and
Stepan Partamian was if you wanted to promote
(22:52):
the Armenian wine consumption at restaurants, particularly,
we need to get the buyers to come taste the wines. Yeah.
And typically in America, I would be invited two
hours before the rest of the trade
so I could taste wine without anybody bothering me and get through
a lot of wines. You know, I would do a hundred wines in one thing.
(23:16):
And that's probably not going to happen this time with Guinea Fest. But the point
I want to make is, wow, I'm being invited to a Georgian only
tasting. Do you think that that would happen
through the government of Armenia? Maybe in five.
Maybe in five cities in America, New York, Dallas,
Los Angeles, Denver, whatever. That you
(23:39):
would organize a place and
time for buyers, people that buy wine to
taste wine. We had this experience and
we were discussing with the guinea fest organizer, Angers,
Mr. Pan, how we can be involved in these, Francis,
and how we can professionally promote the wines. Because
(24:01):
it's. For example, we have this
wine dance festival. It's one of the hugest festival in
Armenia. But somehow just
to meet the professional people in this festival is impossible
because it's crowdy, so many people, they come
the music, etc. They don't allow them to discuss with the
(24:25):
producer to get more knowledge and information about their
wines. So for that we are organizing
master classes for professionals. Unfortunately, we
didn't. We haven't done looking in us yet,
but we had this experience with European countries. We organized the
roadshow. So last year we visited
(24:47):
different countries and we were presenting,
doing the presentation for the whole country, for the
wine sector. We were talking about our
regions, about our grape varieties, about technologies,
traditions, etc. And after that, the producer,
they are presenting their wines and giving
(25:09):
more Information about the wines and about their company.
And after that we were organizing B2B meetings
that we gave them platform to meet with these
experts and to negotiate with
them to get this, to have this
(25:31):
exchange conversations in Century Century. So
it's helped them to get first to it
for us. First to promote the country, the second to give
the platform for the business,
the exchange and also to rise up
(25:52):
rooms of Armenia and buy the company rights.
It's really. And after this event
we organized visits to different shops
and the boutique shops and
supermarkets were presented. They want to give this also information
to our producer to understand who are the competitors in
(26:14):
this country, how the price policies
happening in this country, et cetera, to meet with the
people are selling the wine, to understand how they are
selling, what kind of tools they should use, what kind of marketing tools
they should use for promoting their wines, etc. It was
(26:34):
really very good experience for our producers. And we are
now trying to continue this. And we will be very happy that
if we will have opportunity to do the same in US market to
meet all these people. Because sitting here and thinking
about US Market, what we can do, not knowing these people
in the market, it's really very difficult to enter to this
(26:56):
market. So for that we need to organize more activities in US
Market and it will help our producers to
get more information about markets,
this specific market, et cetera. You know, it's
a. The main issue
that has always been the wine is an
(27:20):
emotional decision. It's an emotional
product. I tasted a bar stack
not too long ago or the tasting Mouton Rashield
tasting. And my comment to the presenter was this
is one of the most emotional smell
noses I've ever put my nose into a glass. And it was after
(27:41):
35 years of doing this that was. It
stopped me in my tracks. And that. That made me think a lot
about, you know, why it takes so long, why people are
hesitant to try these things. And I'm going to
switch gears on you a little bit. And this conversation
came up in the seminar I listened to this morning,
(28:04):
but it's always been around. And I'm going to tell you a story about a
Moldavian wine that came here, Maybe it was 30 years
ago, and it was called Hickory Ridge, which is a very
American, Southern American thing to say. And
it, and it, it said. And the label said
Cabernet Sauvignon on it, okay. And then on the back it said
(28:26):
bottled in
New York or they did everything they could
to not tell you it was Moldavian
by the name and by the bottling statement and all the government stuff
until it said, you know, produced in Moldavia or grapes from
Moldova. I can't remember exactly what it was. And that leads me to this
(28:48):
conversation about, you know, the Armenians were a very proud country. We have
the grapes, the indigenous grapes are amazing. They can make really
great wines. But then there's that whole concept
about indigenous grapes and explaining them. Another
headwind, another, you know, another requirement to
educate the consumer versus let's
(29:12):
put some Chardonnay in the bottle and let's get some Merlot and some Cabernet and
let's see what happens. What's your position? I know you
make Adeni and Voskahat and Hungun and the, you know, the
regular indigenous grapes, but what is the
government's take on this? What's the vine and Wines foundation on the
idea of presenting French varietals
(29:34):
from Armenian soil?
We are really based
on our indigenous varieties because
we have this huge biodiversity. When
the FAO supported
(29:55):
us to plan the collection venue, they brought
all these samples from different vineyards
and they planted the vineyard. When I became
to this position, we decided to do genotype and phenotype
analysis to understand what we have in this collection vineyard. And
we understood that we have many really very interesting
(30:17):
grape varieties that even we don't use it, and even
they don't have the name either, these varieties.
Now we gave the passports to this
variety and we register it in international
database that it's Armenian indigenous
(30:37):
or local varieties. Now we are trying
to discover more and more and also to
do through the microvinification, to see the potential of
this grape for the winemaking and to promote this wine. But for
us, the visiting cup, it's Areny, it's
Voskihat, it's Kafet, it's Chendormi. There's all
(30:59):
indigenous varieties that approve that quality. The
wine made from this variety is really very impressive
and interesting. So I'm trying to promote this grape
and also the investors, they are planting the wine with
this grape variety. We have another also
practice that, you know, the Renaissance,
(31:21):
let's say Renaissance of Armenia started from
different companies. For us is most important.
One is the Karas. The Karas, when they decided to
invest in wine business, Mr. Ermikian,
at that time when they started the business, we
still don't have the nurseries, and they couldn't find the
(31:44):
nurseries based on Armenian indigenous varieties. And they decided to
to bring in Armenia the international
varieties. And it was the first, let's say, the quality
wine in the country made from
this grape variety by Gara's company, that shows that
we have this huge potential for the winemaking. But
(32:07):
nowadays, even the Garas, they're using
international, using indigenous varieties. They are doing interesting
blending because for the consumer, for the international
consumers, it's interesting to discover the wines based on
their indigenous and local varieties. For that
now we are very much as a government promoting our
(32:29):
indigenous varieties. And we see that we have huge potential using
our local varieties. Not so much bringing international
varieties, but some producer, for example,
Alexandria Winery, Adam Kaplanian, they decided to start a
business based on international varieties. And it's one of the best
chart in Armenia that really, when they are presenting
(32:51):
this word, Chandonia for Armenia, it's recently, it's
really very interesting. The people want to see what is
Armenia Chardonnayan.
But let's say it's
97% of
vineyards, they are based
(33:15):
the local varieties, etc. So I think having
this opportunity, having this, let's say heritage wine will
not use and promote our local varieties instead of using
international varieties. But we are not saying that it's not
interesting or the quality is not good,
but trying to promote. And we are doing the
(33:37):
project based on indigenous. Right.
It's really interesting couple. You
should see this. There are like these different
altitudes. The highest altitude in Valozone,
it's in Vallestone. You will see this view
with the small things and thermals, volcanic soil and so
(34:00):
many interesting varieties that you can find in this
region. And now we are working with
the producers to have the first GI in
Vayo region. Because we don't have geographic
indications, et cetera. We are now working to have the first
GI biostore because the thermal is really
(34:22):
amazing, not only in Biostar, in all wine
regions. It's really very interesting. And because of the
climate, because of the soil type, because of
technology, because of the people. When I was doing the review,
what impressed you much was that the people,
the winemakers, the people, what they are doing is
(34:44):
amazing. They are doing everything with the
heart, with the emotions, as you mentioned, it's
emotional product. And it's really
nothing that you just present the wine
on online platforms or you're just talking about
is not tasting. It's something totally different.
(35:06):
When they meet with the winemakers, when they talk with the
winemakers, when they visit their vineyards and they see
how much effort they are putting
in this business, it's really interesting.
You know, I just. You trigger a thought and
I see, I see everybody on this show.
(35:28):
I mean, I've done almost 500 episodes. So I've
quite, quite a variety of people and
it can only be from passion, particularly in the
Armenian case. I mean, it takes passion to be in this
business anyway. But I see two types of passion. I see business
passion where somebody's trying to create a unique package. Or
(35:52):
there's a woman in here just recently got
her wines into Whole Foods and they're in a
375 bottle that looks like a vast water bottle.
That's. That's business passion because the wine inside is
okay. But if you're an Armenian winemaker, not
only do you have to have passion to do it as a
(36:14):
winemaker, but you know, you've got many more headwinds in this industry
than the regular if you're, than if you're in Napa or if you're in Bordeaux
or Burgundy, because you're starting from scratch everywhere.
Juliana. You know, one of my early podcasts
with, with an Armenian winemaker was Juliana, and she was
talking about Michel Roland coming to the Arad Valley
(36:36):
and saying, you can grow grapes here.
It'll take us a hundred years to figure out what it
can do in the reality. To me it's,
you know, been what, 20 years. You. They've figured out
a lot of things since then. And because it's a unique
situation, it really is old world, right? I mean,
(36:59):
6,100 years old at least. But because
of the USSR, it's really new world in
its approach because we're just learning.
And I will say that Adam's wines, the Chardonnay in
particular, was very modern. You know, I tasted
last week. They had a very modern character.
(37:22):
And that's great for some people, it's great for some markets. And then
you've got, for instance, the Voskavas Karasi collection,
which has a very expressive old world character. And I love
them all.
So how is it then? I mean, how
did we get the Concourmundia de Buxe
(37:45):
to recognize Armenia as a place to come and do
this magnanimous international tasting? How did that happen?
Did you do that?
In 2018
I got invitation to become as a judge in Congressman Die.
(38:05):
And it was my first experience to participate participate in this international
competition. And in 2019,
I just have this nice conversation with the organizer.
If they are interested to organize, it's in Armenia
at that time. They said it's good, but we should understand that
(38:26):
Armenia is really wine country. Like you have this
old facilities and potential to
organize a in Armenia, et cetera. I
invited them to come, but after that Covid started in Switzerland,
but I again came with this
request to them. And we became very good friends of the
(38:49):
organizers. They asked them just come to Armenia. I just
invite you as my friend, as guests to come to Armenia
and to see what is Armenia and just discover
by yourself the country. And after that we will talk about
opportunity to watch the competition. At that time, I
was 100% sure that they will be
(39:10):
impressed. Wow. Usually it's
happened, I'm saying the
whole sector, not only the foundation, what we are doing, we are
doing with a very open heart and emotions. We are really very
patient. As you mentioned,
I remember that when I first time invited
(39:33):
the journalism from the Forbes magazine and he wrote me
that okay, I will come, but I don't promise you that I will
write something about Armenia. And
just. You must know that no one
will not know that I am the journalist from Forbes
magazine. Like I just coming as a guest. And if
(39:55):
I will be impressed, if you will impress me, I will
write something. No, I'm not. I promise you that you will
have our article that can come.
Wow, very exciting. And he too, he wrote after his visit,
he wrote two articles about Armenia and he became
very good friend of ours. And he's promoting us and
(40:18):
supporting us. Whenever we need something, he is helping us. So.
And the same happened with mondial. I was 100% sure that
if they would decide to come to Armenia, we will impress.
And so they came. They really very much like the country, the
people. And I showed them the facilities, everything
(40:38):
that for them or that
time was really important to make the decisions, the venue
and such. If we had enough venue to organize this
competition, if we have like as a country, we are
interested because it's somehow. It's
one business, let's say, because we are inviting
(41:00):
many voters, buyers, journalists, et cetera. But
at the same time, it's for us a good opportunity to promote
the country. So when they see that we have
many interesting historical places, the city is
really very nice, that the gastronomy is good in center.
After that they decided. Then they got the
(41:22):
request from different countries as well, from
Georgia too. But they decided
to organize it in Armenia. And
we were with our minister, Minister of Economy
in China. And we officially announced
that the next year Armenia route was the competition
(41:47):
for us. It's not only just to make
the business platform for our producers. For
us is more important to promote the country, to
promote our wines in the wine region and to
get our position in Winelab
that Armenia is also winemaking country,
(42:12):
very good quality wines. And
yes, why not when we are talking about
our history, like when we are talking about these 600,
6000, 100 years winemaking traditions.
Everyone, just the second question is why we don't
know you if you have this history and
(42:34):
traditions, why we don't know about Armenian. So it's a good
opportunity for them to, instead of talking about
our traditions, country etched, to
give this gamut opportunity to come and to discover the country.
And also trying. Now we are working
on agenda and trying to make agenda
(42:58):
not only for the
guests, but also for local people as well. Because
every time after interviews I give me this question why
I am talking about things. But when I do the
interview and talking about this, I want to also
(43:19):
say that fortunately it's
developing in the country, but wine
consumption in local market is not so high. We have huge
potential even in local market. But
still our fathers, our grandfathers, they
drink vodka. And now we are competing with
(43:42):
vodka and trying to change this culture in local market.
So this competition will also give
us opportunity once again to
present in local market. This is our,
let's say, national
drink. It's a national for us. It's not just
(44:05):
alcoholic beverage. It's culture, it's history,
it's tourism. And we will
try to bring local people with these international people
together and to give this
nice mood to everyone that they can feel that this
is one country, the wine. Well, I already got my room
(44:28):
at the Alexandria for five days, so we're
ready to come. But it has, you know, we're almost out of time
already. Can you believe that? But I did want to. I did
want to know, like since this happened and I've seen some press, I've
seen some stuff. Civil Net did something. I think
that Zartun Media did a couple things, but the rest
(44:51):
of the world that has there been a positive,
a positive response to the awarding of
the. Of the tasting in Yerevan.
People as the press embraced this and said, hey, this is a
great thing. Yeah, yeah. Because during
these 10 years we are
(45:14):
actively supporting and organizing the festivals,
many master classes, many educational
programs, like we even
have TV program about winemaking,
about wines, about regions, etc.
Trying to also promote
(45:36):
our wines in local market. So, and we
see that, you know,
the consumption is increasing. Like in 2014
it was 1.2,
but in
2022
(46:01):
this became worldwide 22, it's like
25. It became almost fast. Literally, it's not
we want to reach, but the same time we see that, we see
that it's increased, but
it's. It's Became lifestyle. It's
became for the young, especially for the young generation.
(46:24):
It's somehow lifestyle too because we have so many
wine bars, restaurants like
and they promoting the wine. The people just like to see
the outside and drink the wine. But it's not
my niche to which I want that Armenians
(46:45):
also drink the wine at their home
during the dinner, during the lunch, etc. Not only in the restaurant
and wine bars outside of the
home, but also inside of their
houses, their home with the family, with the friends, friends, et cetera.
So now we actually want to
(47:09):
promote it as well. Yeah. You know, it's
interesting because I when I give speeches, etc, I I start
with usually saying something like if you were to try
and define a culture, you probably pick
a language which Armenia has a language. You pick land, if you still
have land, Armea has land. You would pick cuisine
(47:32):
and maybe music and then wine. Or not in that order
necessarily. But wine certainly is an expression and
should be and always will be an expression of a culture.
And having you on the show, huh.
So just remember that one of our producer
from Van we had a discussion with the
(47:55):
politics and we are talking about importance of the sector, et
cetera. And Frances had this is not the
tech business that you can close
your notebook and go to Dubai and
work somewhere. So this is the business that we
investing so much maybe for our
(48:18):
grandchilds and such because
it's a long term investment and we are
not only investing for our business, we are investing in the region.
We are creating this brand like the
tourism is also developing
because of the production etc. Etc. So as you mentioned was
(48:40):
just not the product. This is
something totally different and they
should understand this. There are people who are making
decisions. I'm going to tell you a story and
then we'll finish. Then I want you to stay on just a couple
minutes. But I had a master
(49:02):
sommelier here and there's only 400 in the world. And
he's a very well known. His name is Emmanuel Kamigi. He makes wine in
Pirarat, Spain. And he went to the a very
famous wine shop in California, in Sacramento, owned by
Darrell Corte, who's a very well known, probably one of the preeminent port
knowledge base in the world. Anyway, what
(49:24):
Darrell poured him was an Armenian wine, I don't know which one.
And Emmanuel Kamiji as a master psalm in his
brain said wow, I've got to learn about this
place because I'd never heard of wines from there.
At the same time he's telling himself and I have to learn how to
compete with them because this wine is really good. And I'm making wine
(49:47):
in Spain and now I have a new competitor, so to speak, in the
marketplace. And that was, I thought that was a very strong and
thought out, you know, response to tasting a good Armenian wine.
People are noticing and people are seeing it. A guy like him that gets to
taste them and say that to himself is telling you a lot.
And so it's been a, it's been such a pleasure. It's already been almost an
(50:10):
hour to have you on. Maybe we'll do it again in Armenia when we
come and visit you. I want to use this opportunity
and invite you to come and to be one of the
judges of congressman there. I will ask our organizers
send you official vision and you will join
us during this amazing event. And I'm
(50:32):
again sure that you will be impressed of the
country also Hawaiian region and also
have this opportunity to meet the people
from 6, 65 countries.
It'd be an honor to do that. And I've, I'm, I'm humbled by
that comment. I appreciate that and I would certainly
(50:55):
do it. I also wanted to talk to you.
We'll talk about it after we. I turn off the recorder. But
it's just so fascinating and I, it's, it's really exciting
to be, to see it. You know,
I've done this for 35 years and you know, this is the first time
(51:15):
you see an emergence of it. You know, there's New Zealand came on board in
Australia and all that. But this is a real grassroots,
you know, in the, in the, let's call it in the soil
attempt and renaissance of
a wine. And that was a word that Maryam Sagatalian used on a
(51:37):
podcast. And I think that's a great word. It's a renaissance of an industry
that's been. But isn't that weird? It's been around for 6,000 years.
It's a true renaissance. Right? It's really coming back.
We presented in Congressman in
China the country, the oldest New east wine country.
(52:00):
It's also very interesting, the oldest, newest because yes,
we have everything that proving that we are one of the
oldest, even if not the oldest one, but the
same time, to be honest, everything is
happening during these 15 years. And it's amazing that
the result, what we reached during these 15
(52:23):
years. It's amazing. Thanks to our, again, thanks to our winemakers,
thanks to these people who are doing this amazing job and
helping out for our country to be
recognized as a really very good quality mind
processing country. It's such an honor to have
you on the show and I look forward to us meeting in person
(52:45):
soon. And say hi to Vagan for me. I look forward to
chatting with him. I was unable to make his seminar the night
after, and I didn't get a chance to meet your daughter. But I was hoping
to do that. But we will do that, if not
before May. In May. It's in
May. It's. It will be end of the May. It's
(53:07):
19-19-23. So
free. Just put in your calendar and maybe during
this you will get official invitation for us.
We pay on. Well.
Very kind. Thank you. Thank you. And cheers.
Cheers.
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