September 2, 2025 • 43 mins
When people enter a room, you instantly get a sense of their disposition in life. Are they smiley? Frowning? friendly? Gregarious? and you instantly if this is going to work. I knew instantly that this was going to work when Cecilia Guzman walked into the studio.
Sitting down in the studio in beautiful Southern California for this episode of Wine Talks was a real treat—one of those times you just know you’ve got the right guest in the right seat. Cecilia Guzman, winemaker at Haras de Pirque (and yes, I stumbled through the name a couple of times—years of Spanish and still getting tripped up), joined me for a conversation that took us deep into the world of Chilean wine, from the fun of making it to the relentless challenge of selling it.
Right from the top, Cecilia hit me with one of those insights I love: “Making wine is kind of easy. It’s fun and easy, but selling wine, it’s another stuff.” Isn’t that the story of this business? We’re all drawn in by the romance—the vineyards, the sunshine, the “lifestyle”—but it’s once the barrels are tucked away and the corks are in the bottles that the real grind begins. And, as she pointed out, the business has changed dramatically in the last twenty years. Getting your label noticed in today’s flooded market is a whole different challenge than staking out your vineyard back in the day.
Now, Cecilia’s story isn’t the usual “dreamer buys some vines” tale. She’s the general manager and winemaker at Aras de Pirque, a property now 100% owned by the Antinori family—six hundred years in wine. Yes, you read that right, six centuries! I always marvel at how these wine dynasties, whether Italian, French, or American, get the itch to go explore somewhere new. In this case, the Antinoris, looking for that “departure from the regular,” were drawn to Chile’s potential—the terroir, the freedom from strict appellation rules, the lure of doing something different.
Cecilia’s philosophy on wine really shines when she talks about letting the place shine through—how it’s not about making the best Chilean Cabernet, but making the best wine for that unique spot in Pirque. That notion of terroir, of honest wines that truly express where they’re grown, is something I can get behind. The challenge, as we both lamented, is getting that magic to translate to the consumer, bridging that gap from heartfelt winemaking to the retail shelf.
But what I found most refreshing was her practical outlook. She sees Chile as a land with advantages—natural barriers, low disease pressure, and a real push towards sustainability. There’s a bit of humility in her voice when she talks about how Chile can almost do “organic by default.” Yes, their greatest challenge is, as she puts it, the weeds! (The kind in the vineyard, not the grain—note to self, remember the translation next time).
What really stuck with me, though, was Cecilia’s sense of continuity and patience. When you only get one shot a year, it takes decades to build real wisdom—and she’s been racking up vintages for thirty years. The Antinoris may have centuries behind them, but every year in Chile still brings new lessons, new surprises, new stories. And isn’t that just the heart of wine? It’s history in a bottle, culture at the table, a product that’s always made better when it brings people together—at home in Chile, or halfway across the world.
If you ever get the chance, I’ll tell you, visiting Chile is on that bucket list. From the vineyards to the Andes to those family tables where stories linger as long as the finish on a great Cabernet. Cheers to Cecilia, and to the stories we keep uncorking together.
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Haras de Pirque
Website: https://www.harasdepirque.com/ -
Antinori Family (Marchesi Antinori) Website: https://www.antinori.it/
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Los Vascos Website: https://www.lafite.com/en/the-domaines/los-vascos/
(Owned by Domaines Barons de Rothschild (Lafite)) -
Undurraga
Website: https://www.undurraga.cl/ -
Don Melchor Website: https://www.donmelchor.com
#winepodcast #Chileanwine #CeciliaGuzman #PollyHammond #winemaking #winetourism #AntinoriFamily #sustainablewine #terroir #vineyardmanagement #winemarketing #womeninwine #organicfarming #Argentinewine #CabernetSauvignon #Merlot
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We always say that making wine is
kind of easy. It's fun and easy, but selling wine,
it's another stuff. Sit back and grab a glass.
It's Wine Talks with Paul K.
Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio today in
beautiful Southern California about to have a conversation with Cecilia
(00:23):
Guzman. I was going to say the accent wrong. Even after like eight
years of Spanish, I still said it wrong. Hey, have a
listen to show that I just put out with Chef Slay, David
Slay. He is a local restaurateur. He's got four or five restaurants in the beach
areas of Southern California. Incredible insight into how wine
is sold at the table. Have a listen to that. But not why we're here
(00:46):
here. Would you call yourself the head winemaker? Welcome to the show by the way.
Thank you. Thank you very much, Paul. Thanks. I know you, you've been traveling a
lot. You just got back from Vancouver. Was that business? No,
no, it was family issue. But it was fine with one of my
kids. 16 years old. You had family in Vancouver.
Going to spend four months there in a school. In high school. Wow.
(01:07):
Yeah, so yeah, kind of a challenge for him and for us. That's
great to get out. Get out Chile. And you know, Chile is so small at
the end. So in the answer that, yeah,
it's good to have them, the experience to be abroad a little without
the parents at the end. You're the winemaker Haras. No,
no, no, Aras. Haras. Aras.
(01:29):
The Pirk. Which is. How
old is that winery? Well, the winery is
20, almost 26 years. It's kind of young. Yeah, very young.
But the project began in early 90s. So the
vineyards were planted at the time, you know, this Chilean entrepreneur
named the family, was the Mati family. And
(01:51):
he has this property, a very beautiful property, 600
hectares. So let's say 12. Just call it 12,000
acres. And horses. That's
huge. Horses and yeah, huge for being near to
Santiago. So at the end he has a stat farm
and he planted the vineyards, 100 hectares of vineyards in the
(02:13):
early 90s. A little of everything at a time. That's an interesting
way to start because you know, the wine lifestyle is so
sought after. You know, people look at wine as this
luxurious product. It certainly you and I would believe that it's a
reflection of. Of culture, reflection of terroir, et cetera.
But to the, to people that aren't in the trade that are looking in
(02:37):
and they look at people that are in the trade and
they get successful. And then certainly in California, you go to Napa
Valley and you build the big chateau and you, you realize how hard this
is. Is that in Chile as
well, is the lifestyle of wine sought after?
It happened to be like that. But you know, we always
(03:00):
say that making wine is kind of
easy. It's fun and easy, but selling wine,
it's another stuff. So today we have so many, many good
wines in the market. And showing your product and selling your product is a
challenge. So at the end, it used to be that way, but today the people
involved in the business knowing much more to where to plant or
(03:23):
where to buy, sell your wines, you know, has changed in
the last 20 years. A lot, A lot, a lot. Yeah. I mean,
we sold our company two years ago because of that. I wasn't
prepared to, to learn it all over again. We had learned a
lot and we done sold a lot of wines. We talked about, but. But trying
to understand what the nuances of today's marketing were going to be.
(03:45):
But you're. But your winery is owned by a very large
family. Yeah, today we are. The Property is owned
100% by the Antinori family. So
they've learned how to sell wine. Yeah, they
have been in the market for 600 years. So they have something
to say about it. Yeah, for sure. Why did they come to Chile? They were
(04:08):
looking to invest something in South America. They
looked for some wineries in, you know, in Argentina and in
Chile. But they stay with Ares de Pique because they believe in
the product. They saw the potential. You know,
we were just beginning. It was our first
or second harvest. When they came, Renzo Gotarella and
(04:30):
Pierantinori saw the potential we have and they decided first to invest
in a joint venture. The idea, the original idea was to,
you know, make one wine together. But, well,
quickly after it, it began
a. It became, sorry, a 5050 ownership. And today we
are fully honored by the family. Wow. Because a
(04:52):
lot of wine related families have
come to Chile or Argentina. French. Yes,
French and Spanish, Italians, Americans are there.
You know, Piero is down in Patagonia and from,
from Italy as well. I wonder what the allure is. Is it
(05:13):
because it's a new place, it's a new world, it's a new opportunity, it's
new character. What? Well, big
companies and I think in the case of the Antinori
family, they were looking for something different in South America. They didn't have
a property in South America. And it's the
good thing of being far away from everything, you know? Yeah. I guess it's
(05:35):
a departure from your regular. Yeah, yeah. So something different,
another foot, you know, other place. And when
you really think about wine and wine culture and
everything, it could be different all over the world.
So they're always curious and doing different things. And
that's why the Antinori came to Chile, looking for something different. Part of
(05:58):
sort of the exploration into California, Napa, Central coast,
Willamette Valley in Oregon for the French has been
no rules, no appellation control. Yeah. You
know, and you get a chance to experiment, I suppose,
innovate on your own as to what you want this to be. Tasting
your wines. Clearly a slight departure from
(06:22):
the old school. Wonderfully fresh, expressive
character. You know, you sense the grape in these wines. Well, the
thing is, Paul, that we look after the terroir, after
the place, over the, you know, soil, weather, everything together to
get a wine from the place. That's why I always say
we're not trying to make the best Chilean
(06:45):
Cabernet from, you know, it's what we are trying to do the best
for that place that's unique. And when you
remember Birque,
when you taste a bottle of wine of Arras, you know,
our job is complete there because it's the terroir
thing, it's the, you know, show the grape and the place and the people
(07:08):
that work there in a bottle. And that's what, that's
why it's so, you know, nice to work without,
you know, real rules in appellation. We have
appellations in terms of origin, geography, but
not in terms of how we make the wines there. So you can express
the place more than the people. You express the place. So that's beautiful too.
(07:30):
And the part that it's hard
to explain to a regular consumer. And we were.
My, my son in law was in town last week and
he's quite academic and he loves. He won't drink cabernet in
Bordeaux or Burgundy. He only drinks interesting things from interesting places.
And I was trying to. I was trying to balance this idea and we just
(07:53):
talked about a little bit what. It's fun and easy to make wine,
but it's much harder to sell it. But there's something so unique about
a properly made bottle of wine, an honest bottle of wine that expresses
where it is, that lights many people up,
but then the reality of trying to sell it, you know, and
I don't know if there's a. If there's space between
(08:16):
the idea of a terroir driven wine, honest wine, and then
the consumer like what happens in the middle that we try to.
I'm not sure I'm asking the question. I'm just trying to sort of explain my
position on, you know, the part that we understand or that we see
and then what we see in the. Market, see, what we have, you know, see
and try to do in Chile about that is
(08:37):
that try to get the people there. You know, we have a lot of
tourism coming from Brazil, from Chile, from states,
Europe. And when you taste wine surplus,
when you taste the wines there and you see the place, you can really
show the product at the end there. As we told, as we
were talking, so many good wines, but the place is
(08:59):
unique. So you have to show the place. You have to show experience.
We go with the tourists with a personalized
experience. We try to do the best for them. And then it's how you
say it in English, mouth to mouth. That's right. And that's
the way we do it today.
Obviously, you bring less than 1% of the people
(09:23):
that drinks your wine all over the world. But at the end, that it's helping
the industry, the place. You know, showing what we do in
the place is what makes a difference for us. I think that's
a critically important part of
today's wine marketing world. And that experience,
it's slow, you know, only a handful of people at a
(09:45):
time. But we have a company that has an experience of
600 years. Yeah, that's true
experience. Yeah, they are patient. Yeah. Because
that's wine tourism. California is down. Wine tourism
is very popular. I've had a wine tourist
group here on the show. I've had one tomorrow
(10:08):
in the Morning with the Armenian, you know, tourism group.
And I think that that's kind of where we have to go now. The Wine
of the Month club, for instance, what you see there in that picture, we used
to go to places and we would stand there and we would shake the hand
of the potential customer and we would share our experience of my dad's story
coming from Cairo, blah, blah, blah, and that when you shook their
(10:29):
hand and they got that next box, the next package,
they would remember that conversation. Just like, if they come to Chile,
can they meet with you or they meet with your tasting staff? Yeah, also no.
The place is. Our place is also quite
unique. We have a wine with the shape of a horseshoe.
Maybe you will not remember the name of the wine, but you will
(10:52):
remember that you have been there at the end, you related things. And
the experience today is about that.
And not only the winery. When you have your
wines with friends, family dinners,
that's what is kept in your memory. At the end with the wines. Do
you think every generation comes to wine
(11:15):
properly? I mean, some later than others, like we're talking about Gen X now, they're
drinking White Claw and other junk, but eventually
they have that glass of wine or they, they realize what it can
do and be. I would love to say yes.
I would love to say yes. That's the way, you know. But at the
(11:36):
end, you know, family, friends is everything. Wine and
food, it's everything related. So it's, it's very difficult
to take 100% the wine away from the table. You can't do it.
So at the end they will see what we have there in the table. They
will taste different things. When you have wine in the table, you have
different stories to tell about people, about the places,
(11:58):
about where did you have troubles before? So
I think it will be difficult to take it away. That's a good point.
Last night we were at dinner in a Thai restaurant in Hermosa
Beach. I walked in, somebody goes, hey, Paul
happened to be a very well known sommelier from used to be at the Jonathan
Club downtown and a blogger and a writer.
(12:21):
And I listened to their conversation. They had two friends in from
New York and there was their first time at Hermosa Beach.
Most of the conversation was about food and wine. And I thought
that's just natural. It's just what happens. And
we hope you and I hope that everybody gets a chance to do that, you
know, once in a while to have that storytelling. Absolutely. So
(12:45):
we were talking about some of the early vintages of Chilean wines that were done
here. And when I started in 1987 with my father, one of the first wines
that I tasted as part of the company was the
1987 Los Vascos Merlot. And
Merlot was, you know, Merlot was the
defaulted red wine of Chile at that time. And
(13:06):
Sauvignon Blanc was the white. Of course, Sauvignon Blanc still seems to be
this, the workhorse of the white wines from Chile. But
Cabernet seems to have crept in and taken over where Merlot used
to be. Is that accurate or no? Well,
I think that's almost 60% of the vines we have
planted in Chile's Cabernet Sauvignon is the queen variety. The queen
(13:30):
grape there for sure. And in the last 20 years we have
been in planting Cabernet and all the grapes in the right
places. And that's all the, you know,
it's all about that it's all about having the best Cabernet.
You will have the best Cabernet if you plant it in the foothills and you
plant it in the right places. And Arras is that, you know, the right place
(13:51):
for Cabernet Sauvignon in this case, and for Merlot at that
time, maybe it was Carmen Air. Yes, Carmenier was very popular. Yeah,
very popular Chilean Merlot at the time of. In the early 90s,
before that. So maybe you had a Carmen Hermon and a Merlot,
and. Well, Merlot is not
popular all over the world. No. We
(14:14):
have some issues with the clones and, you know, and the weather and
the heat. So there are special places for Merlot, beautiful
Merlot that make part of some very
interesting wines of Chile. Salma Viva, as you
know, the Melchior, beautiful wines of the place. But
you have to be very, you know, focused in where you
(14:36):
can produce Merlot in our. Isn't
that just, you think about it, 1988, you know, the
Merlot's very slow since it's only one
time a year, you get to decide and test or
replant or, you know, then you have to wait five years or four
years to get a vintage that's, you know, acceptable for making wine from.
(14:59):
And I think that's part of the industry, part of the allure of it and
part of the trouble with it. There's a lot of
contemporary thought about changing the language and being
contemporary and innovating, but you don't get that many
chances. How long you've been doing this?
30 years. 30 years. Do you think that an
(15:21):
experienced winemaker gets 60 in vintages under their belt
at least? Yeah, at least. Okay, so 60 to 70 minutes, that's not a whole
lot when you think about the chances you have and all the different changes. And
now you're in a new area, theoretically, to the world of wine,
Chile's relatively new. And you're still learning
every day. And it will be forever, you know, because climate change,
(15:44):
the soils are different. We have 80 hectares. And
not every parcel is the same as the other, so they can
develop different wines. So at the end, you're always learning. This is
forever, you know, and it's also
the interesting part, obviously, today, nowadays,
there's a lot of technical, you know, analysis, you know,
(16:07):
procedures that you can. You can. That you can guess a little
more, what it will happen in the future with those wines, with the quality of
the place, etc. You have a lot of data that
we didn't have before. But anyway, it's the experience
as you said it was, when you plant, you have to wait three or four
years to really understand if what you thought
(16:30):
or what you see in this project is
true. So. Yeah, well, that's agronomy at
the end. And that's what, that's the fun part. That's the fun part
where when you work with the antineurity, it's a
big family, old family and you have 600 years of experience,
you can take that and put it also in, in your place. I never thought
(16:53):
of that. That regardless of where the experience is, just the,
the management, the you maximizing the value
of the vineyard, making sure you're not over planted or under planted, all those,
all that experience is brought to the table without
too much experimenting to figure it out because you've already done it all.
You know, chili always was. And
(17:16):
I haven't tasted as many as I used to
like the Wine of the Month Club. When I stood there Tuesdays when I told
you about how we hear these stories. Chilean wines
were in Argentina, wines were prolific. Every Tuesday I would
taste them. But toward the end I wasn't seeing as many. But
it was always thought of as sort of a value
(17:37):
proposition. You know, the wines were always, you know, floor stacked at the rest
market. And good wines, I mean quality wines in Duraga,
other brands like that. Does that change or does it still feel like
that. In the average. It stays.
Yeah. But they are very nice, beautiful
new projects or that have redeveloped, let's say
(18:00):
the brand. Because to make a good wine in a
bright place with the, you know, correct clones and
the nice, the proper yield and everything, it takes time and
of course money. So you can't. The
only category that is increasing in tiller
the sales all over the world is the category of the reserve
(18:24):
category. Let's say the wines. Yeah. Over
$15, over $20 fob.
So at the end, the Chilean category, the
nice Chilean categories is increasing in terms of volume
today that I have seen. And Don Mercourt
Merchure. I have some of that. Yeah, it's a beautiful wine. It's my
(18:46):
poem. I don't think I've ever opened it with that. You can open it. It's
a beautif 100%, 100
points in the Wine Spectator. Best, best
wine last year, you know, for, for the Wine Spectator. And
it's really. They have doing a great, great, great job there.
I'm so happy that the guy that bought my company didn't want any of those.
(19:08):
Yeah, for sure. You have them. Yeah. You know
It's a wine that can last 20, 30 years in a bottle. No
problem. I think I'll open it tonight. Yeah, that's true. You should. You know the
other thing that's interesting too about Chile and Argentina as well.
Any country that has
(19:28):
been natural, and that's not the right word, but
are the farms in Chile contaminated? Like, if you came
to America, you'd have to probably decontaminate before you could
start to grow organic or biodynamic farming. But it would seem to me, and I
know that like, like I was talking about Piero and Cenza, he talked about the
Patagonia vineyard. You know, he's like, the Armadillos are coming back and
(19:51):
this is the, the, this is what they're seeking is this very
organic and biodynamic farming. Well, that's a good thing of, of being far
away from everybody. Yeah, we have the mountains, the Andes,
huge mountain. Then we have the Pacific Ocean, the north.
In the north we have the desert. So at the end we are very isolated.
(20:11):
And then the, the farming in Chile, in terms of the
wine business is
almost all we are in the sustainable project Wines of Chile. A
Chilean organization has involved every
winery in this beautiful project of being sustainable,
certified sustainable by a company.
(20:33):
And it really works when you take care not
only of your grapes, you take care of the community, the people
who works with you. And everything is really makes for us a
different standard in terms of production. And yeah,
Chile is very, I always say that is the, is
the place that is almost mandatory to be, you know,
(20:56):
organic. Because when you see, you know, a French
book of diseases, it's like, you know, very,
very high, a lot of pages. And then for the table Chilean, you know,
we have few diseases, few insects,
really, that doesn't make a lot of harm to the, to the, to the
vines at the end. It's a way to do it. Our challenge is
(21:19):
weeds, for example. But yeah, it's that. Wheat.
Wheat. How do you say? The grain? No, the, the grass
that's. Oh, the grain. The grass that has. Oh, interesting. Yeah.
So it's the way of producing wine in Chile,
especially reds. You know, for the white wines in the coast
could be a more challenging for. But for red wines, Indian,
(21:41):
you know, high places as Aras is mandatory.
So that's interesting because
there's, there's, you know, the biodynamic movement that you saw
the book over there. You,
you, the vineyards that a biodynamic vineyard looks
substantially different than a well trained,
(22:03):
pesticide laden, you know, properly
farm Vineyard. And it's such an interesting
irony between the two because, you know, weeds are good. You
know, certain types of weeds are really good. Right? They. They nourish the soil for
the next vintage. And that's. It goes, it goes from there. In
California, America, we. We've ruined our farms, you know,
(22:25):
and it always fascinates me that, you know, farming was
organic and it probably was very sustainable and it probably was
biodynamic long before all these
chemicals came into play. And now we applaud ourselves
for going back to where it was in the first place. We created this problem.
Yeah, for sure. Humanity, sunshine,
(22:48):
has always created our own problems. But, you
know, for the vineyards, I think
we have something good at that, is that we don't have
to produce a lot of yield. So
if you keep it low, if you keep it sustainable at the end using
that word, you don't know to use a lot of different things
(23:11):
to. It's not grains. It's not that you have to
produce more yields per hectare to feed someone.
The less you have, the more concentration you can get.
Maybe you can get a better wine. So at the
end, low crops, it's not necessarily a lot
(23:31):
of, you know, things to grow. Yeah,
chemical things to grow. So at the end, coming back, also, it's
good that you, we relate today the, you know,
winemaking or vineyards, vineyard
projects as a farming is. You have,
you don't only have vineyards or vines. You have,
(23:54):
you can have other products there. You bring the tourists into, you
know, into your. Into your winery is. You
have, you can have cheese production because you have
chefs that are, you know, eating or
eating the weeds there. You have a sustainable
100 thing. That's a circle thing. A circle
(24:17):
recycling at the end. What is the livestock of choice
in Chile? Is it beef? Yeah,
beef. Not as, you know, Argentina, like, you know, Argentina,
but we have beef. Yes, of course, beef. And, you know, other, other
small animals, but mainly beef. So if, if you're going up the
Andes from the coast, you
(24:39):
know, it's a big thing now in Argentina. You know, elevation,
Malbecs, and we, we plant them at 2,000, 3,000 meter, whatever
the, you know, meter. A thousand meters to 2000. Is
that a thing in Chile as well? Going up, you say?
Yes, yes, because especially in the Maipo,
where you are very close to the Andes.
(25:02):
Well, Chile is divided in terms of geography.
Give us a north to south, sort of
large Appalachians like my folks. For
the north, we have Limari.
Limari. Then we have Casablanca, near to the
coast. Then we Have Maipo more in the mountains.
(25:25):
Then you have a very
nice area. Then you have Maule,
very hot today. And the dry farming, for example.
Then you go more in the south, like 600 kilometers from Santiago, you
go to Biobillo, where you have Traigen and Mayeco,
very nice spots for Chardonnay and for Pinot Noir. And then
(25:48):
we are developing some other areas in the south,
like Tiloe and Tilletico or more in the south
that's to develop at the end. So there's a lot.
There's a lot because in Chile you can plant everywhere if you have
water. You can plant everywhere, you have access to water.
Is it becoming, I mean, I don't think in its history that wine
(26:11):
was culturally part of the Chilean diet or
regiment. I mean, obviously it's kind of the Mediterranean. Has
it always been part of the dinner table in Chile or is it something totally.
Since, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Wine has
been. We are a wine producer country since,
you know, Eva, since, you know, the Spanish people came with the
(26:33):
first wine. So we are talking about 200 years and has only
been part of the family, you know,
dinners or lunches or whatever with friends.
Always wine is present there.
I have to come. Yeah, you have to. I have to come soon. Yeah, you
(26:55):
have. It's a beautiful trip, you know, going south,
going down to South America, visiting Argentina. So
it's a special place in Chile, so near the coast. It's
beautiful. Well, when you said the desert and then the mountains, I mean, it's kind
of like California. Right. And we have all these very similar spaces that you can
go one in one day in one day in all these different places. Yeah, we
(27:16):
always say that you can go to the beach in the morning and then in
the afternoon, or vice versa and. Or to ski
in the. In the afternoon. So it's a great place to ski. Ski the
Andes. Yeah, yeah. Invest in that company. You will have a ski
center 45 minutes from Santiago. Yeah, it's a
great place. Yes. Yeah. I asked this question a
(27:38):
lot and I haven't asked it lately, though. And I actually
was researching you're biography things and I
was asking chapters for some stuff and
it came up with the same question I always ask, which is. And
it goes kind of goes back to this idea that we have to balance consumerism
and selling wine with what we produce and how we want to express
(28:01):
what we get from the vineyard. But let's just say
this is a tough question. If profitability was
not part of our equation, if there was a Way that wine was
just made, it didn't matter if we sold any.
Would what would you make something different? Well,
nice question. It's a tough question. Yeah, but it's a nice question because. It'S hard
(28:24):
to imagine that there's no profitability required.
Well. In
where we are, where we are located in, we
are producing the best we can.
So today it's difficult to say you what I will
(28:45):
go and do differently in terms of, you know,
vineyard. For me, you know, being in charge of the
viticulture of the estate is, you know, 90% or
99% part of the wine. So we
have developed in the last 10 years with the Antinori family
a very nice new project there. So we have invest a lot.
(29:08):
So how to make things differently today?
Yeah, maybe in winemaking could be
a different thing, but in the vineyard today, we have been developing
what we can do the best today
to make this wine. So maybe always
(29:30):
keeping in the organic, maybe going into the,
you know, in how you call this.
This. No, almost no farming, just to, you know. Yeah,
right. Just. Yeah, yeah. So. So what would you call that?
Regenerative. Yeah, regenerative. Regenerative
could be to do more trials of different things. But
(29:54):
today where we are there, we are trying to do our best. I mean, do
they give you free reinforcement?
Cecilia gets to do what she wants. If she tells everything.
Yes. If the communication is perfect, yes,
great. Yes. Yeah. But no, they are very, very, very, very involved. You
know, they don't leave the projects by itself.
(30:16):
What I've seen with the Antinori, have been working with them
for the last 20 years, is that they develop the brand, your brand
at asdbk. It's not only an Antinori
brand in Chile, they make your brand to be successful. They try
to successful all over the place, you know, in Chile,
obviously, and all over the world. So we work a lot
(30:38):
in the brand with The Antinori support 100%
there for every. Everything you. You need. So it's
for us, it's. It's just learning all that's kind of
interesting. I was just thinking Antenoris. I just bought some actually
for my home seller. Some of their Super Tuscan type 1.
(30:59):
But there's no Italian varietals there. Are there any? No. We are trying
to make the best Cabs or best Chilean wines we can, but not
the, not the Sangiovese. Wouldn't that be innovative to put like Sangiovese
or Narello Mascalazi or something? You know,
the soil, the Weather, the climate, everything there.
No, doesn't work. Yeah, I think you can't just move that.
(31:22):
No. It would take now years and years to figure that out. Right? Yeah. Yeah,
I think they, they're right not to. To put San Yves
in, in Pirque. It's kind of interesting because I'm looking at this bottle up here.
The, it's a Martin Brothers Nebbiolo, which is from Paso. We
featured in the club in like 1992 or something. And you know,
Italian varietals were very big in, in Paso in those days. Now it's
(31:44):
French varietals, I mean, Roan varietals on the west side
and Bordeaux varietals on the east side. But it, you know, I
guess it's, I guess eventually, you know, what
settles in that vineyard is going to be what makes good wine and represents what
it's trying to do. Yeah, well, they always say that they have
enough Sangiovese in Tuscany.
(32:07):
We don't need any from you guys in Chile. Okay,
that's funny. So I noticed on your bio here
that you're the first female general manager for
Chilean winery, which is really interesting to hear. It's just in this show,
in fact, I sent a young girl who was an intern here. Her job years
ago was to write the conversation points
(32:29):
whenever I had a female winemaker or proprietor in.
And she ended up in Cornell University as an enology student
and she just got back from a six week stint in Bordeaux at Chateau
Bailly. So there was a hot topic in America.
You know, I've not had that conversation lately. It
seems to have, you know, scores have settled a little
(32:51):
bit. There are more women coming out of enology school than there were.
There's less still in, in the executive ranks of wine
manufacturer. But in Chile, is Chile behind the curve on that?
No. Well, it's. Well, it says you're the first one
here. Well, are there more,
let's put it. No, there are more people. You know that there's a lot of
(33:14):
women in the wine industry in different positions. At the end,
some of us are in the productive line. Let's say
it takes a chance. I am the state manager of the
place because the Antinori
doesn't place Italian people in the
(33:34):
places they buy or they invest. They try to keep the
people. If they have the correct people, they go
ahead with the project. So women in Chile,
in terms of, you know, different works, not only in, in the wine
businesses, so all over, you know,
not behind. How did you like. I mean,
(33:57):
Was it in your family or you just thought it was fun?
What? Well, in Chile, you have to be an agronomist
to be a winemaker. It's different in other places. You know,
for example, in Italy, you can just go and study winemaking
from. From straight. From the first. And
I always loved farming and to work
(34:21):
with people, machines, you know, diverse things. And when I was
in the university in the early 90s, again,
the. How you say, the specialization of
analogy comes up again because, you know, the business was
boosting all the time. It began all over again because
it was very depressed in the 80s.
(34:43):
And when they opened, you know, this organization
in the university say, well, this is for me, you have,
you know, vines of production. You have to work with
people. You have a winemaking that
I loved. It was in my family, but not really.
It was a farm that we used to have with vines
(35:06):
that produced, you know, regular wine. And my
grandfather. But, you know, I really love it. I love it
from the beginning, and I'm really. I love to put my hands on
it. And it's the, you know, in winemaking, you can do that. Yeah,
that's so nothing in the house. Like, you
know, I grew up stocking the shelves, and I. I didn't.
(35:29):
Even when I left college, I went to
corporate America and I had no intention of being in the wine
trade. And now I thank my father every day for
telling me, come on over and just check this place out. You know, maybe you'll.
Maybe you'll want to do it. And it. But it still took me 10
to 15 years of the 35 years to
(35:51):
grasp the value of that
glass of wine and this, the connection to the humanity
that it has that nothing else has. Like that
gin doesn't have it. Yeah, because it's
about culture. You were saying that before, you know, it's about people. It's
about having lunch with your family.
(36:13):
And a bottle of wine that represents people,
culture, places, stories,
you know, in a bottle of wine, doesn't matter how much it
costs, it has a lot inside in terms of.
Well, yes, everything, what we were saying. So at the end,
wine is a product that can show you
(36:36):
a lot of things, that can make you talk, that can
make you, you know, have a lot of stories. So it's
a beautiful product idea. It tells a story. It tells a story.
I always. We talk about this sometimes with winemakers
and proprietors and people that just have gotten immersed in it. And
that is your history since
(36:59):
you were born in Chile and you went to Chilean University and You
studied agronomy, the Chilean agronomy.
That. That shows up now. You can't say, well the
acids from this and the, you know, but the history shows
up. It's like I talk about this one, one woman who's in.
In South Africa now. May Elian Long song. She was. I've tell
(37:21):
the story a thousand times, so people probably tired of hearing it, but she was
in her parents chateau when the Nazis came and shot the place
up. And I have to believe that that story
told to the generations and she owned the Comtesse de
Longville shows up in the bottle somehow.
Absolutely, absolutely. All your experience as winemaker are
(37:42):
also in the bottle. I spent a couple of years in France
to continue my studies and obviously that part of me
is there. My 26 years in the
Arras de Pirque is, you know, 26
years, man. Yeah. It's not only, you know, the wine is part of me.
I'm part of the wine too, and part of the place, you know, and part
(38:04):
of the inventory. You know, there's a. There. I just thought of something
when you said that there was a character of wine
from Chile that proliferated what I'm
now realizing was probably lower end wines. And that was
just pungent green pepper
herb stuff. And then I read that it was
(38:27):
a particular fault of something and then I read.
No, it's just the terroir thing. Do you know what I'm talking about?
This way overdone Green pepper, green herb.
Well, I think the first times we
planted all the grapes, no matter where. And Carmen
Air did it. Carmen Air, for example, if you produce a lot
(38:49):
of yield there or you plant it in the wrong place,
not up in the hills or not in a dry place. Yeah, it
will be, you know, does that. Yeah, it got. That's
those bell peppers and everything. But if you put it in the. If you
plant it in the correct place, it's a wonderful wine. It's a
wonderful wine. Yeah. So at the event it's Everything is about
(39:12):
terroir. At the end it's all about the terroir. Yeah.
So what's next Atas? Well, we.
What are you working on? We're finishing our vineyard project.
This new 80 hectares. We have
replaced the old ones and trying to be
consistent. I think, you know, my
(39:33):
Poandes has a lot to say still. It's very, you know,
classic wine from Chile. But we
have a lot to improve anyway. And that, you
know, concern about details every
day in everything you do is part of what is our, you know,
challenge today? Well, I thought when we tasted today,
(39:55):
it was really interesting because the textures were different from
the. From the blend to the Cabernet, to the Sauvignon Blanc
and the Chardonnay as well. I thought that the Sauvignon Blanc has such
wonderful fruit exposure. You know, it wasn't lime
green stuff. It was really got some complexity in the white
Sauvignon Blanc as well as the Cabernet. Very expressive.
(40:18):
And sometimes you don't taste the fruit. Sometimes you just taste all the
other stuff. And this, you could taste the fruit here. And I thought that was
really good. We're working on that. You know, always trying to put the fruit,
you know, first. What I have learned with the
Antinori, too, is that you don't put your best
Cabernet in your best wine or your more expensive wine
(40:39):
and your lower cab in the entry
level. You know, you work every parcel to the potential
it has. So that's, you know, the difference we make with
that as wines. We select the parcels, we classified it,
and then we work with that in the vineyard and in the winery
to making that wine. So that is different.
(41:02):
You know, it's a different perspective. How to say it. It's kind of cute. The
young girl I was telling you about when she was invited to work
at Chateau by in Bordeaux, she goes, uncle Paul,
I don't know, you know, the Armenians.
Everybody's an uncle and everybody's an aunt. Right. I'm sure probably in Chilean culture as
well. Yeah, for sure.
(41:25):
Absolutely. And she says, but I. I
don't think I want to work in the vineyard. That's what they're offering. I said,
listen, girl, if you're going to be a winemaker, you got to be at
the vineyard. That's just the way it goes. So what's next in this trip?
We're out of time already, which is hard to believe, but you're doing an
ambassador trip. You're out exposing people. You started Vancouver with your son,
(41:47):
but now you're in la. Tastings, dinners, tasting
tastings, trying to show the wines. You know,
when you are here, you can really maybe
say a different thing that hook the people up
about your wines. What we are trying to do there, to invite
them there. I really think it's a place you have to visit
(42:10):
Chile in general terms also, you can go to Argentina if you want. Yeah.
But if you love to travel, it worth it, you
know, so go there, taste the wine surplus, and
it's a beautiful experience. You know, I just got back on my road bike, you
know, the bicycle with a helmet. I mean, can you ride over the top of
it? Does anybody ride their bike over the top of the Andes to the other
(42:31):
side? Or is it too cold or too hard? Is there even a road
that goes all the way over? There are roads to do that for sure, but
not all the mountains. Through the, you know, through the. You can go with it
in the. In the road, the same as the trucks
do. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, you can do it, but not in winter. Not in
winter, please. I won't make that part of the vacation. Such a pleasure to meet
(42:53):
you and chat about what you're doing. Thank you for your time here. All the
success forward while you're here in the US And
I know the wines will be well received and. And maybe have to
check out one of these events that you're doing great. Thank you. Thank you
for your time. Cheers.
We always say that making wine is
kind of easy. It's fun and easy, but selling wine,
it's another stuff. Sit back and grab a glass.
It's Wine Talks with Paul K.
Hey, welcome to Wine Talks with Paul K. And we are in studio today in
beautiful Southern California about to have a conversation with Cecilia
(00:23):
Guzman. I was going to say the accent wrong. Even after like eight
years of Spanish, I still said it wrong. Hey, have a
listen to show that I just put out with Chef Slay, David
Slay. He is a local restaurateur. He's got four or five restaurants in the beach
areas of Southern California. Incredible insight into how wine
is sold at the table. Have a listen to that. But not why we're here
(00:46):
here. Would you call yourself the head winemaker? Welcome to the show by the way.
Thank you. Thank you very much, Paul. Thanks. I know you, you've been traveling a
lot. You just got back from Vancouver. Was that business? No,
no, it was family issue. But it was fine with one of my
kids. 16 years old. You had family in Vancouver.
Going to spend four months there in a school. In high school. Wow.
(01:07):
Yeah, so yeah, kind of a challenge for him and for us. That's
great to get out. Get out Chile. And you know, Chile is so small at
the end. So in the answer that, yeah,
it's good to have them, the experience to be abroad a little without
the parents at the end. You're the winemaker Haras. No,
no, no, Aras. Haras. Aras.
(01:29):
The Pirk. Which is. How
old is that winery? Well, the winery is
20, almost 26 years. It's kind of young. Yeah, very young.
But the project began in early 90s. So the
vineyards were planted at the time, you know, this Chilean entrepreneur
named the family, was the Mati family. And
(01:51):
he has this property, a very beautiful property, 600
hectares. So let's say 12. Just call it 12,000
acres. And horses. That's
huge. Horses and yeah, huge for being near to
Santiago. So at the end he has a stat farm
and he planted the vineyards, 100 hectares of vineyards in the
(02:13):
early 90s. A little of everything at a time. That's an interesting
way to start because you know, the wine lifestyle is so
sought after. You know, people look at wine as this
luxurious product. It certainly you and I would believe that it's a
reflection of. Of culture, reflection of terroir, et cetera.
But to the, to people that aren't in the trade that are looking in
(02:37):
and they look at people that are in the trade and
they get successful. And then certainly in California, you go to Napa
Valley and you build the big chateau and you, you realize how hard this
is. Is that in Chile as
well, is the lifestyle of wine sought after?
It happened to be like that. But you know, we always
(03:00):
say that making wine is kind of
easy. It's fun and easy, but selling wine,
it's another stuff. So today we have so many, many good
wines in the market. And showing your product and selling your product is a
challenge. So at the end, it used to be that way, but today the people
involved in the business knowing much more to where to plant or
(03:23):
where to buy, sell your wines, you know, has changed in
the last 20 years. A lot, A lot, a lot. Yeah. I mean,
we sold our company two years ago because of that. I wasn't
prepared to, to learn it all over again. We had learned a
lot and we done sold a lot of wines. We talked about, but. But trying
to understand what the nuances of today's marketing were going to be.
(03:45):
But you're. But your winery is owned by a very large
family. Yeah, today we are. The Property is owned
100% by the Antinori family. So
they've learned how to sell wine. Yeah, they
have been in the market for 600 years. So they have something
to say about it. Yeah, for sure. Why did they come to Chile? They were
(04:08):
looking to invest something in South America. They
looked for some wineries in, you know, in Argentina and in
Chile. But they stay with Ares de Pique because they believe in
the product. They saw the potential. You know,
we were just beginning. It was our first
or second harvest. When they came, Renzo Gotarella and
(04:30):
Pierantinori saw the potential we have and they decided first to invest
in a joint venture. The idea, the original idea was to,
you know, make one wine together. But, well,
quickly after it, it began
a. It became, sorry, a 5050 ownership. And today we
are fully honored by the family. Wow. Because a
(04:52):
lot of wine related families have
come to Chile or Argentina. French. Yes,
French and Spanish, Italians, Americans are there.
You know, Piero is down in Patagonia and from,
from Italy as well. I wonder what the allure is. Is it
(05:13):
because it's a new place, it's a new world, it's a new opportunity, it's
new character. What? Well, big
companies and I think in the case of the Antinori
family, they were looking for something different in South America. They didn't have
a property in South America. And it's the
good thing of being far away from everything, you know? Yeah. I guess it's
(05:35):
a departure from your regular. Yeah, yeah. So something different,
another foot, you know, other place. And when
you really think about wine and wine culture and
everything, it could be different all over the world.
So they're always curious and doing different things. And
that's why the Antinori came to Chile, looking for something different. Part of
(05:58):
sort of the exploration into California, Napa, Central coast,
Willamette Valley in Oregon for the French has been
no rules, no appellation control. Yeah. You
know, and you get a chance to experiment, I suppose,
innovate on your own as to what you want this to be. Tasting
your wines. Clearly a slight departure from
(06:22):
the old school. Wonderfully fresh, expressive
character. You know, you sense the grape in these wines. Well, the
thing is, Paul, that we look after the terroir, after
the place, over the, you know, soil, weather, everything together to
get a wine from the place. That's why I always say
we're not trying to make the best Chilean
(06:45):
Cabernet from, you know, it's what we are trying to do the best
for that place that's unique. And when you
remember Birque,
when you taste a bottle of wine of Arras, you know,
our job is complete there because it's the terroir
thing, it's the, you know, show the grape and the place and the people
(07:08):
that work there in a bottle. And that's what, that's
why it's so, you know, nice to work without,
you know, real rules in appellation. We have
appellations in terms of origin, geography, but
not in terms of how we make the wines there. So you can express
the place more than the people. You express the place. So that's beautiful too.
(07:30):
And the part that it's hard
to explain to a regular consumer. And we were.
My, my son in law was in town last week and
he's quite academic and he loves. He won't drink cabernet in
Bordeaux or Burgundy. He only drinks interesting things from interesting places.
And I was trying to. I was trying to balance this idea and we just
(07:53):
talked about a little bit what. It's fun and easy to make wine,
but it's much harder to sell it. But there's something so unique about
a properly made bottle of wine, an honest bottle of wine that expresses
where it is, that lights many people up,
but then the reality of trying to sell it, you know, and
I don't know if there's a. If there's space between
(08:16):
the idea of a terroir driven wine, honest wine, and then
the consumer like what happens in the middle that we try to.
I'm not sure I'm asking the question. I'm just trying to sort of explain my
position on, you know, the part that we understand or that we see
and then what we see in the. Market, see, what we have, you know, see
and try to do in Chile about that is
(08:37):
that try to get the people there. You know, we have a lot of
tourism coming from Brazil, from Chile, from states,
Europe. And when you taste wine surplus,
when you taste the wines there and you see the place, you can really
show the product at the end there. As we told, as we
were talking, so many good wines, but the place is
(08:59):
unique. So you have to show the place. You have to show experience.
We go with the tourists with a personalized
experience. We try to do the best for them. And then it's how you
say it in English, mouth to mouth. That's right. And that's
the way we do it today.
Obviously, you bring less than 1% of the people
(09:23):
that drinks your wine all over the world. But at the end, that it's helping
the industry, the place. You know, showing what we do in
the place is what makes a difference for us. I think that's
a critically important part of
today's wine marketing world. And that experience,
it's slow, you know, only a handful of people at a
(09:45):
time. But we have a company that has an experience of
600 years. Yeah, that's true
experience. Yeah, they are patient. Yeah. Because
that's wine tourism. California is down. Wine tourism
is very popular. I've had a wine tourist
group here on the show. I've had one tomorrow
(10:08):
in the Morning with the Armenian, you know, tourism group.
And I think that that's kind of where we have to go now. The Wine
of the Month club, for instance, what you see there in that picture, we used
to go to places and we would stand there and we would shake the hand
of the potential customer and we would share our experience of my dad's story
coming from Cairo, blah, blah, blah, and that when you shook their
(10:29):
hand and they got that next box, the next package,
they would remember that conversation. Just like, if they come to Chile,
can they meet with you or they meet with your tasting staff? Yeah, also no.
The place is. Our place is also quite
unique. We have a wine with the shape of a horseshoe.
Maybe you will not remember the name of the wine, but you will
(10:52):
remember that you have been there at the end, you related things. And
the experience today is about that.
And not only the winery. When you have your
wines with friends, family dinners,
that's what is kept in your memory. At the end with the wines. Do
you think every generation comes to wine
(11:15):
properly? I mean, some later than others, like we're talking about Gen X now, they're
drinking White Claw and other junk, but eventually
they have that glass of wine or they, they realize what it can
do and be. I would love to say yes.
I would love to say yes. That's the way, you know. But at the
(11:36):
end, you know, family, friends is everything. Wine and
food, it's everything related. So it's, it's very difficult
to take 100% the wine away from the table. You can't do it.
So at the end they will see what we have there in the table. They
will taste different things. When you have wine in the table, you have
different stories to tell about people, about the places,
(11:58):
about where did you have troubles before? So
I think it will be difficult to take it away. That's a good point.
Last night we were at dinner in a Thai restaurant in Hermosa
Beach. I walked in, somebody goes, hey, Paul
happened to be a very well known sommelier from used to be at the Jonathan
Club downtown and a blogger and a writer.
(12:21):
And I listened to their conversation. They had two friends in from
New York and there was their first time at Hermosa Beach.
Most of the conversation was about food and wine. And I thought
that's just natural. It's just what happens. And
we hope you and I hope that everybody gets a chance to do that, you
know, once in a while to have that storytelling. Absolutely. So
(12:45):
we were talking about some of the early vintages of Chilean wines that were done
here. And when I started in 1987 with my father, one of the first wines
that I tasted as part of the company was the
1987 Los Vascos Merlot. And
Merlot was, you know, Merlot was the
defaulted red wine of Chile at that time. And
(13:06):
Sauvignon Blanc was the white. Of course, Sauvignon Blanc still seems to be
this, the workhorse of the white wines from Chile. But
Cabernet seems to have crept in and taken over where Merlot used
to be. Is that accurate or no? Well,
I think that's almost 60% of the vines we have
planted in Chile's Cabernet Sauvignon is the queen variety. The queen
(13:30):
grape there for sure. And in the last 20 years we have
been in planting Cabernet and all the grapes in the right
places. And that's all the, you know,
it's all about that it's all about having the best Cabernet.
You will have the best Cabernet if you plant it in the foothills and you
plant it in the right places. And Arras is that, you know, the right place
(13:51):
for Cabernet Sauvignon in this case, and for Merlot at that
time, maybe it was Carmen Air. Yes, Carmenier was very popular. Yeah,
very popular Chilean Merlot at the time of. In the early 90s,
before that. So maybe you had a Carmen Hermon and a Merlot,
and. Well, Merlot is not
popular all over the world. No. We
(14:14):
have some issues with the clones and, you know, and the weather and
the heat. So there are special places for Merlot, beautiful
Merlot that make part of some very
interesting wines of Chile. Salma Viva, as you
know, the Melchior, beautiful wines of the place. But
you have to be very, you know, focused in where you
(14:36):
can produce Merlot in our. Isn't
that just, you think about it, 1988, you know, the
Merlot's very slow since it's only one
time a year, you get to decide and test or
replant or, you know, then you have to wait five years or four
years to get a vintage that's, you know, acceptable for making wine from.
(14:59):
And I think that's part of the industry, part of the allure of it and
part of the trouble with it. There's a lot of
contemporary thought about changing the language and being
contemporary and innovating, but you don't get that many
chances. How long you've been doing this?
30 years. 30 years. Do you think that an
(15:21):
experienced winemaker gets 60 in vintages under their belt
at least? Yeah, at least. Okay, so 60 to 70 minutes, that's not a whole
lot when you think about the chances you have and all the different changes. And
now you're in a new area, theoretically, to the world of wine,
Chile's relatively new. And you're still learning
every day. And it will be forever, you know, because climate change,
(15:44):
the soils are different. We have 80 hectares. And
not every parcel is the same as the other, so they can
develop different wines. So at the end, you're always learning. This is
forever, you know, and it's also
the interesting part, obviously, today, nowadays,
there's a lot of technical, you know, analysis, you know,
(16:07):
procedures that you can. You can. That you can guess a little
more, what it will happen in the future with those wines, with the quality of
the place, etc. You have a lot of data that
we didn't have before. But anyway, it's the experience
as you said it was, when you plant, you have to wait three or four
years to really understand if what you thought
(16:30):
or what you see in this project is
true. So. Yeah, well, that's agronomy at
the end. And that's what, that's the fun part. That's the fun part
where when you work with the antineurity, it's a
big family, old family and you have 600 years of experience,
you can take that and put it also in, in your place. I never thought
(16:53):
of that. That regardless of where the experience is, just the,
the management, the you maximizing the value
of the vineyard, making sure you're not over planted or under planted, all those,
all that experience is brought to the table without
too much experimenting to figure it out because you've already done it all.
You know, chili always was. And
(17:16):
I haven't tasted as many as I used to
like the Wine of the Month Club. When I stood there Tuesdays when I told
you about how we hear these stories. Chilean wines
were in Argentina, wines were prolific. Every Tuesday I would
taste them. But toward the end I wasn't seeing as many. But
it was always thought of as sort of a value
(17:37):
proposition. You know, the wines were always, you know, floor stacked at the rest
market. And good wines, I mean quality wines in Duraga,
other brands like that. Does that change or does it still feel like
that. In the average. It stays.
Yeah. But they are very nice, beautiful
new projects or that have redeveloped, let's say
(18:00):
the brand. Because to make a good wine in a
bright place with the, you know, correct clones and
the nice, the proper yield and everything, it takes time and
of course money. So you can't. The
only category that is increasing in tiller
the sales all over the world is the category of the reserve
(18:24):
category. Let's say the wines. Yeah. Over
$15, over $20 fob.
So at the end, the Chilean category, the
nice Chilean categories is increasing in terms of volume
today that I have seen. And Don Mercourt
Merchure. I have some of that. Yeah, it's a beautiful wine. It's my
(18:46):
poem. I don't think I've ever opened it with that. You can open it. It's
a beautif 100%, 100
points in the Wine Spectator. Best, best
wine last year, you know, for, for the Wine Spectator. And
it's really. They have doing a great, great, great job there.
I'm so happy that the guy that bought my company didn't want any of those.
(19:08):
Yeah, for sure. You have them. Yeah. You know
It's a wine that can last 20, 30 years in a bottle. No
problem. I think I'll open it tonight. Yeah, that's true. You should. You know the
other thing that's interesting too about Chile and Argentina as well.
Any country that has
(19:28):
been natural, and that's not the right word, but
are the farms in Chile contaminated? Like, if you came
to America, you'd have to probably decontaminate before you could
start to grow organic or biodynamic farming. But it would seem to me, and I
know that like, like I was talking about Piero and Cenza, he talked about the
Patagonia vineyard. You know, he's like, the Armadillos are coming back and
(19:51):
this is the, the, this is what they're seeking is this very
organic and biodynamic farming. Well, that's a good thing of, of being far
away from everybody. Yeah, we have the mountains, the Andes,
huge mountain. Then we have the Pacific Ocean, the north.
In the north we have the desert. So at the end we are very isolated.
(20:11):
And then the, the farming in Chile, in terms of the
wine business is
almost all we are in the sustainable project Wines of Chile. A
Chilean organization has involved every
winery in this beautiful project of being sustainable,
certified sustainable by a company.
(20:33):
And it really works when you take care not
only of your grapes, you take care of the community, the people
who works with you. And everything is really makes for us a
different standard in terms of production. And yeah,
Chile is very, I always say that is the, is
the place that is almost mandatory to be, you know,
(20:56):
organic. Because when you see, you know, a French
book of diseases, it's like, you know, very,
very high, a lot of pages. And then for the table Chilean, you know,
we have few diseases, few insects,
really, that doesn't make a lot of harm to the, to the, to the
vines at the end. It's a way to do it. Our challenge is
(21:19):
weeds, for example. But yeah, it's that. Wheat.
Wheat. How do you say? The grain? No, the, the grass
that's. Oh, the grain. The grass that has. Oh, interesting. Yeah.
So it's the way of producing wine in Chile,
especially reds. You know, for the white wines in the coast
could be a more challenging for. But for red wines, Indian,
(21:41):
you know, high places as Aras is mandatory.
So that's interesting because
there's, there's, you know, the biodynamic movement that you saw
the book over there. You,
you, the vineyards that a biodynamic vineyard looks
substantially different than a well trained,
(22:03):
pesticide laden, you know, properly
farm Vineyard. And it's such an interesting
irony between the two because, you know, weeds are good. You
know, certain types of weeds are really good. Right? They. They nourish the soil for
the next vintage. And that's. It goes, it goes from there. In
California, America, we. We've ruined our farms, you know,
(22:25):
and it always fascinates me that, you know, farming was
organic and it probably was very sustainable and it probably was
biodynamic long before all these
chemicals came into play. And now we applaud ourselves
for going back to where it was in the first place. We created this problem.
Yeah, for sure. Humanity, sunshine,
(22:48):
has always created our own problems. But, you
know, for the vineyards, I think
we have something good at that, is that we don't have
to produce a lot of yield. So
if you keep it low, if you keep it sustainable at the end using
that word, you don't know to use a lot of different things
(23:11):
to. It's not grains. It's not that you have to
produce more yields per hectare to feed someone.
The less you have, the more concentration you can get.
Maybe you can get a better wine. So at the
end, low crops, it's not necessarily a lot
(23:31):
of, you know, things to grow. Yeah,
chemical things to grow. So at the end, coming back, also, it's
good that you, we relate today the, you know,
winemaking or vineyards, vineyard
projects as a farming is. You have,
you don't only have vineyards or vines. You have,
(23:54):
you can have other products there. You bring the tourists into, you
know, into your. Into your winery is. You
have, you can have cheese production because you have
chefs that are, you know, eating or
eating the weeds there. You have a sustainable
100 thing. That's a circle thing. A circle
(24:17):
recycling at the end. What is the livestock of choice
in Chile? Is it beef? Yeah,
beef. Not as, you know, Argentina, like, you know, Argentina,
but we have beef. Yes, of course, beef. And, you know, other, other
small animals, but mainly beef. So if, if you're going up the
Andes from the coast, you
(24:39):
know, it's a big thing now in Argentina. You know, elevation,
Malbecs, and we, we plant them at 2,000, 3,000 meter, whatever
the, you know, meter. A thousand meters to 2000. Is
that a thing in Chile as well? Going up, you say?
Yes, yes, because especially in the Maipo,
where you are very close to the Andes.
(25:02):
Well, Chile is divided in terms of geography.
Give us a north to south, sort of
large Appalachians like my folks. For
the north, we have Limari.
Limari. Then we have Casablanca, near to the
coast. Then we Have Maipo more in the mountains.
(25:25):
Then you have a very
nice area. Then you have Maule,
very hot today. And the dry farming, for example.
Then you go more in the south, like 600 kilometers from Santiago, you
go to Biobillo, where you have Traigen and Mayeco,
very nice spots for Chardonnay and for Pinot Noir. And then
(25:48):
we are developing some other areas in the south,
like Tiloe and Tilletico or more in the south
that's to develop at the end. So there's a lot.
There's a lot because in Chile you can plant everywhere if you have
water. You can plant everywhere, you have access to water.
Is it becoming, I mean, I don't think in its history that wine
(26:11):
was culturally part of the Chilean diet or
regiment. I mean, obviously it's kind of the Mediterranean. Has
it always been part of the dinner table in Chile or is it something totally.
Since, you know. Yeah, absolutely. Wine has
been. We are a wine producer country since,
you know, Eva, since, you know, the Spanish people came with the
(26:33):
first wine. So we are talking about 200 years and has only
been part of the family, you know,
dinners or lunches or whatever with friends.
Always wine is present there.
I have to come. Yeah, you have to. I have to come soon. Yeah, you
(26:55):
have. It's a beautiful trip, you know, going south,
going down to South America, visiting Argentina. So
it's a special place in Chile, so near the coast. It's
beautiful. Well, when you said the desert and then the mountains, I mean, it's kind
of like California. Right. And we have all these very similar spaces that you can
go one in one day in one day in all these different places. Yeah, we
(27:16):
always say that you can go to the beach in the morning and then in
the afternoon, or vice versa and. Or to ski
in the. In the afternoon. So it's a great place to ski. Ski the
Andes. Yeah, yeah. Invest in that company. You will have a ski
center 45 minutes from Santiago. Yeah, it's a
great place. Yes. Yeah. I asked this question a
(27:38):
lot and I haven't asked it lately, though. And I actually
was researching you're biography things and I
was asking chapters for some stuff and
it came up with the same question I always ask, which is. And
it goes kind of goes back to this idea that we have to balance consumerism
and selling wine with what we produce and how we want to express
(28:01):
what we get from the vineyard. But let's just say
this is a tough question. If profitability was
not part of our equation, if there was a Way that wine was
just made, it didn't matter if we sold any.
Would what would you make something different? Well,
nice question. It's a tough question. Yeah, but it's a nice question because. It'S hard
(28:24):
to imagine that there's no profitability required.
Well. In
where we are, where we are located in, we
are producing the best we can.
So today it's difficult to say you what I will
(28:45):
go and do differently in terms of, you know,
vineyard. For me, you know, being in charge of the
viticulture of the estate is, you know, 90% or
99% part of the wine. So we
have developed in the last 10 years with the Antinori family
a very nice new project there. So we have invest a lot.
(29:08):
So how to make things differently today?
Yeah, maybe in winemaking could be
a different thing, but in the vineyard today, we have been developing
what we can do the best today
to make this wine. So maybe always
(29:30):
keeping in the organic, maybe going into the,
you know, in how you call this.
This. No, almost no farming, just to, you know. Yeah,
right. Just. Yeah, yeah. So. So what would you call that?
Regenerative. Yeah, regenerative. Regenerative
could be to do more trials of different things. But
(29:54):
today where we are there, we are trying to do our best. I mean, do
they give you free reinforcement?
Cecilia gets to do what she wants. If she tells everything.
Yes. If the communication is perfect, yes,
great. Yes. Yeah. But no, they are very, very, very, very involved. You
know, they don't leave the projects by itself.
(30:16):
What I've seen with the Antinori, have been working with them
for the last 20 years, is that they develop the brand, your brand
at asdbk. It's not only an Antinori
brand in Chile, they make your brand to be successful. They try
to successful all over the place, you know, in Chile,
obviously, and all over the world. So we work a lot
(30:38):
in the brand with The Antinori support 100%
there for every. Everything you. You need. So it's
for us, it's. It's just learning all that's kind of
interesting. I was just thinking Antenoris. I just bought some actually
for my home seller. Some of their Super Tuscan type 1.
(30:59):
But there's no Italian varietals there. Are there any? No. We are trying
to make the best Cabs or best Chilean wines we can, but not
the, not the Sangiovese. Wouldn't that be innovative to put like Sangiovese
or Narello Mascalazi or something? You know,
the soil, the Weather, the climate, everything there.
No, doesn't work. Yeah, I think you can't just move that.
(31:22):
No. It would take now years and years to figure that out. Right? Yeah. Yeah,
I think they, they're right not to. To put San Yves
in, in Pirque. It's kind of interesting because I'm looking at this bottle up here.
The, it's a Martin Brothers Nebbiolo, which is from Paso. We
featured in the club in like 1992 or something. And you know,
Italian varietals were very big in, in Paso in those days. Now it's
(31:44):
French varietals, I mean, Roan varietals on the west side
and Bordeaux varietals on the east side. But it, you know, I
guess it's, I guess eventually, you know, what
settles in that vineyard is going to be what makes good wine and represents what
it's trying to do. Yeah, well, they always say that they have
enough Sangiovese in Tuscany.
(32:07):
We don't need any from you guys in Chile. Okay,
that's funny. So I noticed on your bio here
that you're the first female general manager for
Chilean winery, which is really interesting to hear. It's just in this show,
in fact, I sent a young girl who was an intern here. Her job years
ago was to write the conversation points
(32:29):
whenever I had a female winemaker or proprietor in.
And she ended up in Cornell University as an enology student
and she just got back from a six week stint in Bordeaux at Chateau
Bailly. So there was a hot topic in America.
You know, I've not had that conversation lately. It
seems to have, you know, scores have settled a little
(32:51):
bit. There are more women coming out of enology school than there were.
There's less still in, in the executive ranks of wine
manufacturer. But in Chile, is Chile behind the curve on that?
No. Well, it's. Well, it says you're the first one
here. Well, are there more,
let's put it. No, there are more people. You know that there's a lot of
(33:14):
women in the wine industry in different positions. At the end,
some of us are in the productive line. Let's say
it takes a chance. I am the state manager of the
place because the Antinori
doesn't place Italian people in the
(33:34):
places they buy or they invest. They try to keep the
people. If they have the correct people, they go
ahead with the project. So women in Chile,
in terms of, you know, different works, not only in, in the wine
businesses, so all over, you know,
not behind. How did you like. I mean,
(33:57):
Was it in your family or you just thought it was fun?
What? Well, in Chile, you have to be an agronomist
to be a winemaker. It's different in other places. You know,
for example, in Italy, you can just go and study winemaking
from. From straight. From the first. And
I always loved farming and to work
(34:21):
with people, machines, you know, diverse things. And when I was
in the university in the early 90s, again,
the. How you say, the specialization of
analogy comes up again because, you know, the business was
boosting all the time. It began all over again because
it was very depressed in the 80s.
(34:43):
And when they opened, you know, this organization
in the university say, well, this is for me, you have,
you know, vines of production. You have to work with
people. You have a winemaking that
I loved. It was in my family, but not really.
It was a farm that we used to have with vines
(35:06):
that produced, you know, regular wine. And my
grandfather. But, you know, I really love it. I love it
from the beginning, and I'm really. I love to put my hands on
it. And it's the, you know, in winemaking, you can do that. Yeah,
that's so nothing in the house. Like, you
know, I grew up stocking the shelves, and I. I didn't.
(35:29):
Even when I left college, I went to
corporate America and I had no intention of being in the wine
trade. And now I thank my father every day for
telling me, come on over and just check this place out. You know, maybe you'll.
Maybe you'll want to do it. And it. But it still took me 10
to 15 years of the 35 years to
(35:51):
grasp the value of that
glass of wine and this, the connection to the humanity
that it has that nothing else has. Like that
gin doesn't have it. Yeah, because it's
about culture. You were saying that before, you know, it's about people. It's
about having lunch with your family.
(36:13):
And a bottle of wine that represents people,
culture, places, stories,
you know, in a bottle of wine, doesn't matter how much it
costs, it has a lot inside in terms of.
Well, yes, everything, what we were saying. So at the end,
wine is a product that can show you
(36:36):
a lot of things, that can make you talk, that can
make you, you know, have a lot of stories. So it's
a beautiful product idea. It tells a story. It tells a story.
I always. We talk about this sometimes with winemakers
and proprietors and people that just have gotten immersed in it. And
that is your history since
(36:59):
you were born in Chile and you went to Chilean University and You
studied agronomy, the Chilean agronomy.
That. That shows up now. You can't say, well the
acids from this and the, you know, but the history shows
up. It's like I talk about this one, one woman who's in.
In South Africa now. May Elian Long song. She was. I've tell
(37:21):
the story a thousand times, so people probably tired of hearing it, but she was
in her parents chateau when the Nazis came and shot the place
up. And I have to believe that that story
told to the generations and she owned the Comtesse de
Longville shows up in the bottle somehow.
Absolutely, absolutely. All your experience as winemaker are
(37:42):
also in the bottle. I spent a couple of years in France
to continue my studies and obviously that part of me
is there. My 26 years in the
Arras de Pirque is, you know, 26
years, man. Yeah. It's not only, you know, the wine is part of me.
I'm part of the wine too, and part of the place, you know, and part
(38:04):
of the inventory. You know, there's a. There. I just thought of something
when you said that there was a character of wine
from Chile that proliferated what I'm
now realizing was probably lower end wines. And that was
just pungent green pepper
herb stuff. And then I read that it was
(38:27):
a particular fault of something and then I read.
No, it's just the terroir thing. Do you know what I'm talking about?
This way overdone Green pepper, green herb.
Well, I think the first times we
planted all the grapes, no matter where. And Carmen
Air did it. Carmen Air, for example, if you produce a lot
(38:49):
of yield there or you plant it in the wrong place,
not up in the hills or not in a dry place. Yeah, it
will be, you know, does that. Yeah, it got. That's
those bell peppers and everything. But if you put it in the. If you
plant it in the correct place, it's a wonderful wine. It's a
wonderful wine. Yeah. So at the event it's Everything is about
(39:12):
terroir. At the end it's all about the terroir. Yeah.
So what's next Atas? Well, we.
What are you working on? We're finishing our vineyard project.
This new 80 hectares. We have
replaced the old ones and trying to be
consistent. I think, you know, my
(39:33):
Poandes has a lot to say still. It's very, you know,
classic wine from Chile. But we
have a lot to improve anyway. And that, you
know, concern about details every
day in everything you do is part of what is our, you know,
challenge today? Well, I thought when we tasted today,
(39:55):
it was really interesting because the textures were different from
the. From the blend to the Cabernet, to the Sauvignon Blanc
and the Chardonnay as well. I thought that the Sauvignon Blanc has such
wonderful fruit exposure. You know, it wasn't lime
green stuff. It was really got some complexity in the white
Sauvignon Blanc as well as the Cabernet. Very expressive.
(40:18):
And sometimes you don't taste the fruit. Sometimes you just taste all the
other stuff. And this, you could taste the fruit here. And I thought that was
really good. We're working on that. You know, always trying to put the fruit,
you know, first. What I have learned with the
Antinori, too, is that you don't put your best
Cabernet in your best wine or your more expensive wine
(40:39):
and your lower cab in the entry
level. You know, you work every parcel to the potential
it has. So that's, you know, the difference we make with
that as wines. We select the parcels, we classified it,
and then we work with that in the vineyard and in the winery
to making that wine. So that is different.
(41:02):
You know, it's a different perspective. How to say it. It's kind of cute. The
young girl I was telling you about when she was invited to work
at Chateau by in Bordeaux, she goes, uncle Paul,
I don't know, you know, the Armenians.
Everybody's an uncle and everybody's an aunt. Right. I'm sure probably in Chilean culture as
well. Yeah, for sure.
(41:25):
Absolutely. And she says, but I. I
don't think I want to work in the vineyard. That's what they're offering. I said,
listen, girl, if you're going to be a winemaker, you got to be at
the vineyard. That's just the way it goes. So what's next in this trip?
We're out of time already, which is hard to believe, but you're doing an
ambassador trip. You're out exposing people. You started Vancouver with your son,
(41:47):
but now you're in la. Tastings, dinners, tasting
tastings, trying to show the wines. You know,
when you are here, you can really maybe
say a different thing that hook the people up
about your wines. What we are trying to do there, to invite
them there. I really think it's a place you have to visit
(42:10):
Chile in general terms also, you can go to Argentina if you want. Yeah.
But if you love to travel, it worth it, you
know, so go there, taste the wine surplus, and
it's a beautiful experience. You know, I just got back on my road bike, you
know, the bicycle with a helmet. I mean, can you ride over the top of
it? Does anybody ride their bike over the top of the Andes to the other
(42:31):
side? Or is it too cold or too hard? Is there even a road
that goes all the way over? There are roads to do that for sure, but
not all the mountains. Through the, you know, through the. You can go with it
in the. In the road, the same as the trucks
do. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, you can do it, but not in winter. Not in
winter, please. I won't make that part of the vacation. Such a pleasure to meet
(42:53):
you and chat about what you're doing. Thank you for your time here. All the
success forward while you're here in the US And
I know the wines will be well received and. And maybe have to
check out one of these events that you're doing great. Thank you. Thank you
for your time. Cheers.
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