#19 Lionel Conacher - Making History as the Oldest Rookie at Mavericks, "The Mount Everest" of Big Wave Surfing - Ageless Athlete - Stories and Secrets of Adventure Sports Icons

Episode Transcript
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Kush (00:04):
Folks gathered around and welcome back to the Asian
athletes podcast.
This is your host.
I'll speak to you from sunny SanFrancisco, California.
Bringing you epic tales of age,defying limit pushing
adventurers.
Doing remarkable things in thegreat outdoors.
The anticipation of today'srecording.

(00:26):
Give me goosebumps.
I was reliving my own surfingbeginnings as I prepared and met
with Nature.
Who at 60 was the oldest two wat Mavericks, one of the biggest
and most data fighting big wavesworldwide.
While hat has no desire orexpertise to surf big waves,

(00:50):
just like Lionel.
I did learn to serve in the coldwaters around the San Francisco
bay area.
He just took it so much further.
Most of the best surfers aroundlearn surfing as kids.
Just like the disciplines ofgymnastics.
Or say ballet surfing rewards.

(01:11):
Early learning.
So it is really astonishing thathe did not.
Start surfing.
Until his fifties.
Less than a decade ago.
Lionel is a true agelessathlete.
We will learn.
From his beginnings as acompetitive decathlete.

(01:32):
And as yet, To participating inthe world, triathlon
championships.
To riding in the tour de Franceto completing.
Ultra endurance mountain bikingraces.
For every decade of his life,since his twenties.
He has set a monumental goal andthen gone out and achieved it.

(01:53):
Unbelievably, he did all of thiswhile working as an investment
banker.
In wall street, not the cushiestof careers to allow for such
explorations.
In the outdoors.
I absolutely loved thisconversation and hope you will
as well.
I really appreciate you tuningin France.

(02:15):
I would really love it.
If you would leave a rating anda review in your podcast app.
It will only take a minute.
It really helps.
Others discover.
And learn from.
these Asia's athletes.
Hi Lionel, great to have you onAgeless Athlete.

(02:37):
you tell us where are you, whereyou're from, and what did you
have for breakfast today?

Lionel (02:47):
Well, hi, and thanks for having me.
uh, what I had for breakfast, Ihad, I had for breakfast, what I
have every single day.
I have a Crispix cereal withbrand buds and a sliced banana
and fresh raspberries and twocups of coffee and one glass of
orange juice.
And I have that same thing everysingle day.
And when I travel, I bring, Ibring brand buds with me.

(03:11):
get whatever the local cerealis, but I always try and I
always try and keep my eatingvery, very consistent no matter
where I am.

Kush (03:18):
Traditions are great and being able to enjoy one's
breakfast regardless.
you eat before your morning surfor after?

Lionel (03:28):
Always before.

Kush (03:29):
Ah,

Lionel (03:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I know a lot of people don'tlike, like surfing on a, on a
full stomach.
I think it's cause I, you know,did cycling for such a long time
and, and.
And was, you know, very tunedinto making sure that I was
fueled properly.
So I didn't balk.

(03:51):
And, you know, when, when you'reout surfing, you know, I'm, I'm
normally out there for, youknow, at least an hour and
sometimes as long as threehours.
You know, you, you've got noaccess to water typically when
you're out there.
So I, I just always make surethat I'm properly fueled before
I go out.

Kush (04:10):
Super.
We will hopefully get time todive a bit into your nutrition
practices.
But again, I'm really excited tohave you on the show.
I feel this is going to be avery enlightening episode for me
being a local Bay Area surfermyself.
the chance to learn from your,from, from your background and

(04:33):
how you managed to, uh, takeyour, uh, learnings and go and
surf, uh, Mavericks.
Let's jump right in.
Can you paint a picture Lionelof what a wave like Mavericks
actually looks like?
looks like up close and then,yeah.

(04:53):
How does it compare to theusual, uh, beach breaks an
average person might be morefamiliar with?

Lionel (05:03):
it's way bigger than you think it is.
I think the first time I was outthere, Mavericks typically
doesn't break unless it's abouta 20 foot face.
what I've learned over the lastcouple of years is that it, it
takes some combination of, swellsize and period to break.

(05:25):
that is greater than 20.
It, it feels really big.
compared to anything else, eventhe biggest, days at Ocean
Beach.
You can get a 20 foot face atOcean Beach for sure.
but for some reason Mavericksjust feels bigger and more
powerful and, just a lot moreenergy in, in, in terms of how,
how it breaks.

(05:45):
And, and it's such a, Wedge, um,of water.
you know, the reef is down, Ithink around 20, 22 feet,
something like that.
And so, takes quite a, quite aswell before we'll, we'll start,
we'll start to break, but like,like Jaws and like Nazare, the
way the, uh, Topographyunderneath the ocean works with

(06:07):
a canyon coming into a, reef.
it allows Mavericks to get very,very big without closing out.
in my experience and when it'shuge, like it was at Christmas
time this year, and you can onlytow it, you know, when they were
towing it Um, you know, when itwas probably 50 feet face size,

(06:29):
the, the, the biggest thing I,you know, and I've said this to
everybody, the biggest thingthat impacts you when you first
go out there, certainly when,when I first went out there.
Before I even surfed it, I justwent out on a, on a jet ski and
sat there and watched, is thesound it makes when it breaks
the sound is huge and, and it'sindescribable.

(06:52):
And, and it's, it's, it's scary.
The sound is scary.
Um, so that, that would be thething.
That I would say that, that, youknow, anybody that I, that, that
I know that's gone out there forthe first time, everybody's
impacted by the sound it makeswhen it breaks

Kush (07:11):
Mostly my.
recounts, or let's say my, um,understanding of the wave is
from the words of, uh, prosurfers talking about the wave
in videos.
And they sound humbled by thatsame staggering scale of both

(07:32):
the size and the sound.
So hearing it from somebody whois, let's say, not quite a pro
yet is, uh, is, is uniquelyinsightful.

Lionel (07:42):
and never will be a problem, by the way.

Kush (07:45):
Let me ask this question.
I have paddle out at oceanbeach, which is our local beach
in San Francisco, which can alsobe fairly scary and kind of
intense, obviously.
not on the biggest days.
Maybe my biggest days out therewould be like a double overhead
day.
Some ways, maybe a little bitbigger and just those days

(08:07):
compared to, let's say ashoulder height day can be
intense.
I'm guessing you must also havepaddled out at OB on those
bigger days.
Can you describe.
Even that difference, uh,Lionel, which is surfing ocean
beach at like a double overheadday, like a bigger day versus

(08:27):
being at Mavericks on a 20 footor greater day.

Lionel (08:33):
so this may surprise you, but there's a group of us
that are in our sixties thatsurf Mavericks is probably six
or seven guys, that they're allin their sixties that surf
Mavericks and, and I'm thenoobie in that group.
most of those guys have surfedit for, you know, 30 plus years.
and, uh, you know, ChristieDavis who surfed it, for

(08:56):
probably 35 years, um, surfed itat age 70 last year.
I think he's probably the oldestguy to ever surf Mavericks.
and as soon as he did it, he, hemoved up to Humboldt and he said
he'd never surf Mavericks again,uh, after he did it.
but that group of guys would alltell you.
That they would rather surfMavericks than surf Ocean Beach

(09:18):
on a big day.
cause as you know, paddling out,to get to the outside break at
Ocean Beach on a big day, unlessthe period's really long and
you've got a lot of time betweensets.
Is one of the hardest things todo in surfing in the world, I
think, and, and I, and I, youknow, had, had the pleasure of

(09:39):
having had the opportunity toserve a lot of the North Shore
and sort of big sunset and, andsurf, and, there are very few
places in the world that are ashairy to get out.
As as Ocean Beach you know,what's it, I mean, the paddle
out to Mavericks is a longpaddle and, you know, it takes
usually 30, 30, 35 minutes,something like that to get out

(10:01):
if you're going the long way, orif you're going the short way,
it takes about 20 minutes, butother than being a long paddle,
it's not particularly hard toget out there, and then I would
say the biggest, Difference isMavericks is is because it's a
point break is way moreorganized than the notion
beaches.
I think that the consequencesthat at Ocean Beach can be,

(10:26):
probably as severe as Mavericks.
And I mean, you got a lot morewater moving around and in a lot
different ways.
And, and even and even at atsunset on a big day, I've had, I
had my worst hold down I've everhad anywhere at Sunset, um, not
at Mavericks and, and I'vefallen plenty at Mavericks.
I mean, I've, I've had, Iprobably, I think I've probably

(10:48):
done 25 sessions at Mavericksover the last three years.
And.
without a doubt, the worst holddown I ever had was at Sunset
Beach.
I had a two way fold down atSunset Beach and I wasn't
wearing my Patagonia vest and Iwas, yeah, that was gnarly.

(11:09):
And I've been, you know, thatincludes, I like, I've been,
I've been washed through,through the boneyard at
Mavericks on, on a big day.
Um, and, and the worst, theworst experience that I had was
it was at sunset for sure.
And, and I, and I think thatthe, you know, Ocean Beach,

(11:29):
Sometimes on big days, I paddleout at ocean beach and I see, I
see people out there and notthat I'm anyone to talk cause
I'm, I'm still, you know, arelatively new surfer, but, um,
but I see some people that havepaddled out or try to paddle out
on big days at ocean beach andyou just shake their head cause
they shouldn't be there.
They shouldn't be doing whatthey're, you know, and, and, and

(11:50):
as, as I'm sure, you know, wehave, Usually one to two
drownings a year at Ocean Beachand, and typically it's a surfer
and it's somebody who's, youknow, who's just underestimated
the power of the ocean outthere.
Um, you know, a big day at OceanBeach, there's a lot of water
moving around and a lot of riptides going every which way.

(12:11):
And it's, you know.
I don't need to tell you.
You're, you're, you're wellfamiliar with it.
It, it, it can be, it, it can bescary for sure,

Kush (12:18):
Thanks for, uh, describing the, uh, let's see the
differences between surfing atother places.
like Ocean Beach and also atMavericks and uh, despite
whatever, you know, you havesaid about Mavericks perhaps
being more approachable in someways, you have not convinced me

(12:42):
yet to join you on your, on yournext session at, at, Mavericks.
Yeah, I would love to actuallygo deeper into the day when you
made your debut as the, um,older surfer to, uh, paddle out
at Mavericks.

(13:04):
Take us through how you decidedwhat was the right day and time
to paddle out on, and then alsoa little bit into your pre surf
ritual.
Food, gear checks.
Maybe any mental prep thathappened that day.

(13:25):
Maybe you meditated and then,uh, geared up and got ready to
paddle out, would love for youto take us through that.

Lionel (13:35):
Sure.
and firstly, just, just toclarify, so, I, I believe, and,
and I've talked to everybodythat, that has surfed Mavericks
for a long time, that I was theoldest person to surf Mavericks
for the first time.
So I was, I was 59 and a half,when I first caught a, a
successful wave at Mavericks.
And, that was after starting, I,I started surfing, um, when I

(14:00):
was about 53 and, and I decidedto, to surf Mavericks in my 60th
year because, um, in my life,I've always, on, on, on my big
decade birthdays, I've alwaysdecided to do something.
a big physical challenge.
And, um, and previously it hadbeen primarily in the cycling

(14:23):
realm.
for my, uh, 50th birthday, I,rode Leadville, um, which, which
is the highest mountain bikerace in the world, 103 miles,
all above 10, 000 feet.
and then when I was 40, I didseven straight days of the Tour
de France.
And when I was 30, I competed inthe world triathlon

(14:45):
championships.
and then prior to that, I was,a, uh, uh, decathlete and, and
then also play football incollege.
And, so I've always chosen to doon big decade birthdays, a
physical challenge, and I'd beenfascinated with Mavericks before
I started surfing, actually.
I used to go down and when Ifirst moved to San Francisco,
I'd go down and watch thecompetitions.

(15:06):
And I, I, I just, for somereason, it, it got into my
imagination, um, as somethingamazing.
And, so I decided to do it and Ihired a coach, a woman named
Bianca Valenti, who I'm sureyou, if you don't know her,
you've seen Bianca, uh, aroundocean beach and she's, she's

(15:28):
kind of queen of ocean beach andshe's queen of Mavericks.
I asked her whether she would,um, would coach me after, a long
interview, she finally decidedthat she, that she would, she
would agree to coach me.
And so, so she and I startedworking, together in, uh, March
of 2021.

(15:50):
and she made me do all kinds ofthings.
We did, you know, two, uh, twoday breath hold coaching
sessions.
And we did a paddle from, fromCronkite to Sausalito, nine mile
paddle.
And we did, all kinds oftraining at Ocean Beach.
And on bigger days and then, um,down at Scott's Creek on bigger

(16:13):
days.
And, and then, and then alsodown at, at, uh, steamer lane
on, on big days, all, all withthe goal of preparing to, to, to
be able to serve Mavericks.
And we went out and did, wholebunch of, of, uh, safety stuff,
jet ski safety stuff, we did, atwo day safety summit, Maverick
safety summit, um, with all the,all the regular guys.

(16:36):
so I put about, you know,before, before I actually
paddled out for the very firsttime with the intention of
trying to surf Mavericks, whichwould have been in November of,
um, 2021, I'd done a lot of workand, you know, I spent the
entire summer, up at my, mysummer home in Canada, prone

(16:58):
paddling, you know, paddling acouple of miles a day, every
day.
And, when I actually went out totry and surf Mavericks and I, I
did probably five sessions whereI attempted to catch waves and
fell and wasn't successful.
and I, and I would say that, andI've said this to a number of

(17:19):
people who are surfing Mavericksfor the first time.
The best thing you can do isfall.
The earlier you fall, the moreyou realize, okay, this is what
I'm in for.
and you can kind of take the,the worry of what's going to
happen.
And, and when I fell the firsttime, you know, I had a, you
know, decently long hold down.

(17:40):
I was very, very confident in myability to hold my breath.
I mean, in my, In the breathhold work we did, I got, I got
up to four minutes, holding mybreath on static lying face down
in the pool.
and what they say is that if youcan, you know, hold your breath
for, for four minutes, thenactive, you, you can probably do
half.
and, you know, in the longesthold down, you know, if you had

(18:02):
a three wave hold down atMavericks even if it was on a 20
second period day, the longestyou're going to be underwater is
a minute.
Which is a tremendously longtime.
Don't get me wrong.
Particularly when you're gettingthrashed around and you're, you
get pushed down 20 feet andyou're underwater and
everything.
And you don't know which way isup and it's black and

(18:23):
everything.
But, but if, if you've done thework and you know that you can
hold your breath for, for fourminutes in a static position.
you can probably hold yourbreath for two minutes in an
active position.
even if your lungs are screamingwhen you're at a minute.
That's it.
You still got some time.
You're not going to black out.
You're good.
You know, you're, you're, youknow, so, so you've got time.

(18:46):
The longest hold down, I think Iprobably have ever had, which
was, which was when I was at,sunset is like maybe 30, 30, 32
seconds.
I count, they tell you not tocount, but I always count.
I count Tacomas.
cause I've got, little friend ofmine, Aaron Brooks, who's a, uh,
She's, she's an amazing surfer.

(19:06):
and, she told me that the kidsin Hawaii all count Tacomas.
They, they practice when they'redriving around.
And, you know, when, when I wasa kid, we used to play
Volkswagen.
You used to count countVolkswagen Beals when you're
driving on a long drive.
And, and they, they do avariation of that game where
they, The first Tacoma they see,they hold their breath, and they
have to count 10 Tacomas beforethey can take another breath.

(19:28):
But there's Tacomas all over theplace in Hawaii, so, you know,
you could be holding your breathfor 15 seconds, or you could be
holding your breath for aminute, but, you know, probably
not longer than a minute.
So, anyway, I count Tacomaswhenever I fall.
and I know that if, you know, ifI'm at 20 Tacomas, I've got a

(19:48):
good 30 or 40 more Tacomas in mebefore I got any issues.
it's a way to help me stay verycalm.
you know, one of the sayings inbig wave surfing is panic equals
death.
And so it's really important, nomatter what's happening, to stay
calm and not panic.
and so all of that's backgroundto, you know, when I first

(20:09):
paddled out there and firsttried to catch, um, a wave
there, I fell, I, I fellprobably on the first six waves
that I tried to catch and had,you know, varying degrees of
hold downs and because of thepreparation I'd done.
I was fine and I've actuallynever pulled my my CO2 cartridge

(20:29):
at Mavericks.
I, I've been under for a longtime, but I've never felt the
need to, to pull the, to pullthe cartridge, uh, to get to the
top.
that, that was kind of my, my,first experience that Bianca was
very, um, strict with me and 10still is, um, some, sometimes.
I'll text her and say, you know,what do you think about

(20:50):
tomorrow?
And, and she'll go, yeah,tomorrow's not a Lionel day.
Don't go out tomorrow.
but, you know, the first, Youknow, five or six times we went
out, it was on, you know,smaller, smaller side of
Mavericks.
So, you know, maybe, maybe 20feet, not more than 25 feet.
And, and the wind conditionswere, were pretty favorable.
the day that I caught, actuallycaught my first wave and rode it

(21:13):
right down to the channel.
I think there were only six orseven of us out there.
It wasn't a huge day.
it was a beautiful day.
It was really, really glassyand, Grant Washburn was out
there and Grant, as you may ormay not know, is, is, you know,
kind of the mayor of Mavericksthese days.
He kind of took over JeffClark's spot.
Um, and, and I think Grant'sprobably surfed Mavericks more

(21:35):
than anybody ever in thehistory.
because he surfs it every timeit breaks and, and he's always
out there and he's an amazinghuman.
and I'm considering myself to beextraordinarily lucky that, uh,
he and I become friends and,and, uh, and he, uh, He's been
amazingly helpful to me, youknow, over the last couple of

(21:57):
years as I've been surfing itand always full of suggestions
and always willing to ask,answer any question you ask him
and he's just, he's just awonderful human and I didn't
really know him that well.
I'd met him once or twice.
Um, he had done a coffee tablebook on Mavericks back in the
90s, and I, and I bought it.
I found a copy of it.

(22:18):
It's out of print, but I found acopy of it, we, Bianca and I
paddled out that day, which wasin, uh, February of 2010.
22.
Grant was out there and we weresitting around, uh, the sets
were very far apart.
And, um, and I said to him, youknow, Grant, I got this coffee

(22:38):
table book that you, created.
and when I catch my first waveof Mavericks, I'm going to get
you to sign it for me.
And he looked at me and helaughed and he said, I hope you
have it in the car.
Cause you're going to catch yourfirst wave today.
And I said, I said, I, I said, Idon't, I don't, but, you know,
but I'd love to catch my firstwave today.
And he said, okay, well, juststick with me and I'll, and

(22:59):
I'll, I'll get you into it.
And Christy Davis was out there.
Um, and Christy was 69 at thattime.
Uh, and there were, there werefour or five other guys and
Bianca was the only woman as sheoften is.
anyway, all of a sudden Grantsaid, here comes a set.
And I look out on the horizon, Idon't see anything.
And.

(23:19):
And, but sure enough, about aminute later set comes and he
says, I'm going to take thefirst wave and you take the
second wave.
and he said, just look where Itake off and just take off a
little bit inside me.
And, uh, anyway, the wave came,he, he took off, he catches, he
catches it, he almost neverfalls.

(23:39):
So he's, he's not a goodbarometer of what it can be
like.
Uh, anyway, I just, on the nextwave, I turned and paddled and
caught it and got to my feet.
And, uh, the next thing I knowI'm, I'm ripping down the face
on the wave.
you know, and one of the thingsthat I wrote in the article that
I wrote, that was in the inertiais.
What nobody tells you is thateven on, even on a very glassy,

(24:04):
non windy day, it's super bumpyand, you know, and you're going,
you go, you go from, zero to 24,25 miles an hour in the first 10
feet, like right, you, you getto speed right away and, you
know, and if you're successfulin getting to your feet, then
all of a sudden you've, you'vegot these bumps happening as the

(24:27):
wave goes over the reef, there'ssome ledges that form, if you
watch videos of guys surfingMavericks, there, there's a
couple of drops that you hit.
They're not big, but, but you'regoing fast, and, and you can see
them, you can see them formingup in front of you, so you, you
know, like, they don't catch youby surprise, you can actually
see them.

(24:48):
Anyway, I'm, going down theface, and I can see Grant.
Probably 300 yards in front ofme, um, sitting in the channel
at the end, you know, we're,we're, we're the wave ends and
he's, he's got his arms andhe's, and he's, he's waving at
me and I don't know what he'sdoing, but I'm just looking at

(25:09):
him trying to get to him.
And, um, and I actually rode thewave all the way right past him
and gave him a high five.
And, and that was the first waveI caught.
And I said to him, what, whatwere you waving at?
He goes, he goes, you werefading too much.
You were about to get mowed downby the, by the wave, which I had
no idea.
Like, you know, I just, Youknow, I didn't get hit from

(25:30):
behind by the wave, which is nota pleasant experience, by the
way.
I've had that happen to me.
It's, it feels like you get, youget run over by a Mack truck
when you get hit by the wavefrom behind.
So then I paddled, back up tothe, to the lineup and Christy
Davis was there and Christy gaveme a high five and said, you

(25:50):
know, congratulations.
They all call me Nelly.
Bianca's nickname for me isNelly.
So all those guys call me Nelly.
and he goes, way to go Nelly.
Uh, I knew you were going tocatch your wave today.
And I said, you know, Christie,I, I know, I know you're the
oldest guy to surf Mavericks,but I might be the, be the
oldest guy to surf Mavericks forthe first time.
And he said, no, you're, you're,most definitely that.

(26:10):
And, uh, I said, I said, well,you know, gives me, gives me
hope that I, I've got another 10years to surf Mavericks.
And he goes, why is that?
And I said, well, you know,you're, you're 10 years older
than me and, and you're stillsurfing Mavericks.
And he said, he said, well,don't use me.
I, you know, I might, I might besurfing it for another five
years, who knows?
So anyway, that was the firstday that I caught a wave.

(26:33):
And it was a, it was cool.
I was ha, and I was ha, I didn'ttry and catch another one.
I just, I was happy and, uh, Isat out in the lineup and
watched the other guys foranother, you know, a half an
hour, an hour and then, and thenpaddled in.
But, uh, it was, it was a funday.

Kush (26:50):
counting Tacomas.
One, two, three, four, maybe inSan Francisco, uh, you know, we
should replace them withcounting Teslas.

Lionel (26:59):
I suppose.
Yeah.
But one Tesla, two Tesla isshorter than one Tacoma, two
Tacoma.

Kush (27:05):
That's right.
That's right.
this is quite the, uh, quite thestory.
Uh, thanks for, uh, walking usthrough.
You shared so much more thanwhat I had initially, uh, asked
for.
I'm going to, Pick a few thingshere.
So many, so many good gems.
Firstly, paddling out, you wentfive sessions without catching a

(27:26):
wave.
I know that, uh, again, onsurfing, much smaller, but still
intimidating days for me at,again, at, Ocean Beach and some
other places.
It is so scary to paddle intoonce in a lifetime.
first wave and then to have tonot catch a wave and, you know,

(27:49):
do the, uh, proverbial, uh,paddle back of shame and then go
in day, day in, day out.
What kept you going throughthose four or five sessions?
Until the sixth session, whenyou actually caught a wave and
those sessions, Lionel, whereyou didn't catch a wave, how

(28:09):
many waves did you try to paddlefor?
Would you try many waves andthen not make those waves?
Or were you just, uh, working upthe gumption to paddle for a
paddle and, and, and, and notmake it.
And then the day you actuallypaddled and caught that wave,

(28:30):
What was that definingdifference in what helped you,
uh, succeed?

Lionel (28:36):
um, it's a good, it's a good question.
in terms of keeping going andtrying it, you know, when I
started surfing, I startedsurfing at, at Cronkite or Rodeo
Beach over Marin, which is,which is not an easy place to
surf.
And, and a lot of people saythat if you can catch a wave at
Cronkite, you can catch a waveanywhere.
I, I started, started surfingthere and didn't know what I was

(28:58):
doing.
And I went there every day andjust kept paddling out and, you
know, a Cronkite.
if, if you, if you get washedin, you get washed way, way
South on the beach and you haveto do the walk of shame all the
way back up to the, to the Northend of the beach to paddle out
again.
I just always had,determination, to, you know,
complete what I start.

(29:18):
And so for me, it wasn't amatter of if it was a matter of
when, and I just knew that if Ikept trying that I, you know,
eventually I would, I would, Iwould succeed.
I can say that, you know, being,just being out at Mavericks,
like I, I was at a Mavericksfive sessions this winter and I
only caught one wave all winter.

(29:40):
and for me, it's just that, thatbeing, out there is so amazing.
Like it, it's, it's, it's a,it's a.
It's a magical place.
There's something very spiritualabout it and and the people that
go there a lot really feel thatand it's kind of, you know,
their church, if you will.
you know, this from being a,even, even if, if you get

(30:03):
outside it'll be and you'resitting there.
And you don't catch a wave.
It's okay.
Like it's just, it's a, it's anamazing place to be and, and
just be sitting floating in theocean and having, you know,
dolphins breach around you andseeing the odd whale and seeing
seals and whatnot.

(30:23):
It's, it's amazing.
And for somebody like me whodidn't grow up around the ocean
and didn't grow up with that.
To have discovered that at thispoint in my life and have that
be part of my everyday routineis an amazing thing for me.
And so, I just like being outthere.
And if I don't catch a wave,it's fine.
you know, if Bianca were on the,on this call with us, she would

(30:45):
say, The one thing Lioneldoesn't, um, have, have any, um,
trepidation about is paddlinginto a wave.
Like, I'll, I'll paddle intoanything.
I'll, I'll, it's all, I'llalways try.
and so for me, it wasn't amatter of, of not trying.
I paddled for a lot of waves andmissed them, was in the wrong
spot, had them go underneath me,whatever.

(31:08):
The worst and best day that I'veever had at Mavericks was not
this winter, but a year ago.
And it was big.
it was probably 35 feet and.
Everybody showed up.
Greg Long was there, and TwiggyBaker was there, and the Mels
were there, and Luca Ciobo wasthere.

(31:28):
Everybody was there.
Um, there was probably 50 guysin the lineup.
that day, I paddled for 10 wavesand caught 10 waves.
And every single time I caught awave, I would look left, and
Twiggy would already be on it,or Greg Long would already be on
it, or Pete Mell would alreadybe on it, you know, lots of

(31:49):
times people will ride two orthree guys to the wave at
Mavericks, there's enough roomto do that, but I never felt
confident enough that I wouldn'tfall in front of them, you know,
so I wouldn't take the chance,and so I caught ten waves, And
pulled out because someone, youknow, one of those world class
guys was already on the wave andI just didn't want to be on it.
you know, that was a veryfrustrating day for me because

(32:11):
it was really good and, and Ididn't catch a wave all day.
and I came in from the sessionand, And I said to my wife that
night that I, you know, it wasfrustrating because I caught 10
waves, but someone was on everyone I caught and I pulled out
and, and she looked at me andshe said, yeah, but you were one
of 50 people that were in theworld that were out at Mavericks

(32:34):
today.
You were out there with allthose guys.
And, and, you know, and it tookher to put it in perspective for
me and, and just how lucky I wasto even be out there.
that, that's kind of how I, howI look at it.
And, you know, and I, and I,I'll keep paddling out there,
you know, so long as I stayphysically fit.
you know, I, I can totally seedoing it until I'm, you know,

(32:55):
You know, 70, like I like it alot.
It's fun.
and when you, when you catch,when you catch a wave there, the
adrenaline rush lasts for a longtime.
Like it's, it's a, you know,it's a cool, it's a cool thing.
And, you know, if you, if youactually step back from it and
look at surfing in general, Imean, I, I surf almost every

(33:16):
day.
I usually surf for at least anhour if I'm at Kron, maybe an
hour and a half.
yesterday I think I caught 10waves at Kron, and over, you
know, whatever it was, 70minutes or 80 minutes.
The average ride at Kron ismaybe 10 seconds?
Okay.
And so out of, out of an hourand a half, I was actually

(33:42):
surfing on a wave for a hundredseconds.
I mean, that's, that's just thefacts of, of surfing.
Right.
And, and so you better likebeing in the water and you
better like being out there andyou better like the rest of the
experience because the actualsurfing part is a very small
part of it.
And Mavericks, Mavericks is kindof a bigger aspect of that with,

(34:03):
you know, more consequences and,you know, bigger risk reward, et
cetera.
But, but it's, it's basicallythe same,

Kush (34:09):
Every bit of that is true.
The ocean and being out there issuch a magical environment.
Even particularly so living inSan Francisco and being able to
drive, you know, 15 odd minutesand being in this absolutely

(34:30):
wild and exhilaratingenvironment that is the Pacific.
And just that contrast betweenthe two is just amazing.
It's incredible.
me like you, I did not grow upvisiting the ocean.
So for me, just being able to beout there and experience mother

(34:54):
nature at its apex.
is a gift.
And I try to remind myself withevery session at OB where I
return, uh, to shore, let's sayempty handed, that it is a
privilege.
My first time surfing OB, I wentwith my friend Josh and Josh,
you know, uh, much bettersurfer.

(35:14):
I sat on one of his small, uh,shortboards.
And after some point he said,Hey, Kush, aren't you going to
try to catch a wave?
And I'm like, no, I'm justhaving such a incredible time
just sitting in the ocean andabsorbing this three dimension
environment.
So I completely agree witheverything that you said there.

(35:35):
And then I think keeping side ofthat through every session and
you seem to have a greatercapacity for being able to
appreciate that and being ableto.
Keep coming back.
One thing also here is some ofus when we go surfing, you know,
there's that mental aspect andwe'd also want to get into that

(35:55):
a little bit where so much of itis about being able to conquer
one's demons and paddle out andactually try to catch a wave and
not like fake, fake a try at awave.
That particular day you were outthere where you caught a number
of waves.
And you were at this worldstage, you know, this is not

(36:18):
your typical lineup with your,uh, everyday locals.
These are the titans of the bigsurfing world.
And you were able to battle withconfidence and catch those
waves.
A lot of people would not dothat.
You know, they would often beshy of being looked of looking

(36:40):
bad in front of, uh, again, uh,that, that crew of champions.
Describe for us, Lionel, thatmoment of choosing, of paddling
and then dropping into a bigwave and how that is different
than, let's say, your typicalday at Fort Cronkite, which for

(37:02):
people who don't know is thissurf spot in San Francisco.
It's pretty well known, so Idon't think people will get mad
at me for talking about it.
It's just north of the bridge.
You know, it's, it's a smallwave.
So describe for us thosesensations.
The, the speed, the sound, thatone way that you got, it sounds
like Grant called you into it,but I'm guessing that doesn't

(37:24):
happen.
Every time you have to chooseyour waves and you have to
inspect the lineup.
So talk to us about how did youchoose the waves?
You have to be so selective.
what are those, uh, sensationsthat you experience and how they
are different than, uh, thansmaller waves?
You talked about the bumps.
I think that's probably part ofthat.

Lionel (37:45):
the biggest thing, you know, I, I wear, I wear an Apple
watch when I, um, surf and I'vegot, and I've got, um, the Dom
patrol app on it.
So it, gives you the speed thatyou're surfing at through the
wave.
And, and I think the biggestdifference.

(38:06):
is the speed with which the wavestarts from when, from when you,
when you decide that you, thatyou're going to paddle for a
wave.
when I'm at Mavericks, I tend tobe, all the guys in, in our
sixties tend to be a little bitmore on the shoulder than, than

(38:26):
deep in, deep in the bowl.
Um, the wave, stands up a littleless severely.
Although typically what ends uphappening, is those of us that
sit a little bit on the outside,We'll wait for a wide swinger,
um, that is too severe for theinside guys to actually catch.

(38:48):
and so it tends, you know, ittends to be less, less severe
than, than catching a wave deepin the bowl, but, but still ends
up being relatively severe.
I, I would say the, And so whenI sit out there, that's what I'm
looking for.
I'm looking for a wave, thatisn't going to work for the guys
that are inside.
Um, cause, cause I don't like,the thought of dropping in on

(39:11):
somebody at Mavericks.
For me, I just don't feelcomfortable.
That I, that I'm not going tofall in front of them and I
don't want to cause any, anyaccidents.
And so for me, safety isparamount.
And so for me, the biggest thingis, is just making sure that I'm
choosing the wave wisely andsafely, you know, and, and so

(39:31):
that, that's my number onething.
And, and, uh, you know, andI've, because when you, when you
start to paddle for a wave, ittakes over all your senses,
right?
You can't, there's not a lot ofother things that you can focus
on, um, other than, you know,getting, figuring out how to get
to your feet.
And um, and that's, you know,for me, that, that, that's a,

(39:52):
that's a huge, it takes a hugeamount of focus.
And so, so you want to make surethat, that you're not going to
impact anybody else negatively.
in, you know, when, when youdecide to go for it.
The biggest thing is the speed.
It's just how fast the wavepicks you up and.
launches you down, down the faceand, there's that moment right

(40:12):
before you know, you've caughtit where you feel your board
accelerating and you feel likeyou're going to catch it that
is, to me, that's the mostterrifying spot because it's
like, the closest feeling for meis, is if you're on a roller
coaster and you're going up, up,up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up,
up.
And then when you get to the topright before you, you go over

(40:36):
the edge and go ripping down, isthat fraction of a sec Se.
Of a second of, oh my God,what's gonna happen, And, and
you know, you kind of lose, youknow, the bottom drops out and
that's, it feels like that.
It feels like if, you know,that's the closest physical

(40:56):
sensation that I know of, thatthat is right when you catch the
wave and then all of a suddenyou're ripping down the face
and, And you got it.
You got to get to your feetright away.
And you haven't got a lot oftime to get to your feet.
I, I belly wrote a wave atMavericks once, you don't want
to, you know, I did itsuccessfully.
I got to the bottom, but you donot want to do that.
It's a, it's a terrible, that'sa terrible, you know, and I just

(41:18):
didn't get to my feet.
I went to pop up and I hit abump and my arms collapsed and I
ended up on my belly and Iwrote, wrote down the face on,
on, on my belly.
And that was terrifying.
That was, uh, probably the mostterrifying thing I've ever done
out there.
so there's that fraction of asecond when, when, you know, you
know, you've caught it and thenyou just got, you got to get
your feet and then, and then,you know, start absorbing with

(41:41):
your legs and, um, And it, youknow, and I'm sure you've
experienced it when you've beenat Ocean Beach on a bigger day.
Like, it's the same, it's thesame feeling, as you would have
on a 10 foot wave at OB, exceptit's twice as big, or three
times as big, depending on thesituation.
But it's that, that moment rightwhen you know you've caught it

(42:03):
and knowing that you gotta, youknow, get to your feet and get
your hands forward and get inthe fighter position and do all
the things that you've beentrained to do.

Kush (42:12):
absolutely.
It is different, but a lot ofthe preparation that you put
into, uh, getting to that firstday at Mavericks probably
helped, lessen the fear and, uh,get you comfortable.
One other question I had aboutjust trying to the scene the

(42:33):
lineup that is, that is at, atMavericks.
How is that, how is the lineupdifferent than again, a day at,
let's say a different type ofbreak at OB, at another, uh,
surf spot, maybe it could beSanta Cruz, it could be Hawaii.

(42:53):
You are there along with manyothers.
Many of them have been surfingfor Mavericks for over 30 years.
Some of them are world renownedsurfing celebrities.
Some of them could also be newersurfers out there.
What is the vibe like?
Are people somewhat welcoming?

(43:16):
You mentioned that there is someregulation that does happen,
people don't tolerate, otherswho may not be contributing to
the fun and the safety of the,uh, situation.
Is there localism there?
are there some people who are,uh, who are not as happy to see
others in the water?
Just quickly, if you can,Describe to us.

Lionel (43:38):
I would, I would say my experience, my experience may be
different, slightly differentthan other people's experience
Because I was being coached byBianca and she introduced me to
the lineup she didn't introduceme to the lineup until she knew
I was ready.
And, and I think people knewthat, she's enormously respected
out there.

(43:58):
And, you know, and, and at thispoint probably she's surfed it
more than any other woman.
you know, she's, she surfs it alot.
I mean, she, she surfs it almostevery time it breaks.
And so, she's established her,her place in the lineup there
for sure.
And, and so because I wasintroduced by her.
And, you know, and I, and Ilisten to what she says.

(44:18):
I, even now, like, you know,even though we don't have a, you
know, formal coachingrelationship anymore, she will
tell me, you know, what, whatshe thinks in terms of if I'm,
if I'm in a wrong spot orwhatever, she's not afraid to
tell me, you know, if I'm, ifI'm not doing something right,
which hopefully isn't veryoften, but, um, but I, I would
say on, on, In general, thelineup is, is pretty welcoming

(44:40):
there and, yeah, and, and, andthere's definitely, you know,
like, like in every surfinglineup there, there is a
hierarchy for sure.
And, and if someone, you know,if one of the more established
guys is going, you know, Peopleback.
People back off and let them go.
you know, and I wouldn't saythat the, the group of older
guys that is there get specialtreatment, um, in any way, shape

(45:04):
or form.
Um, maybe a little bit of elbowroom, uh, that, you know,
somebody completely unknownwouldn't necessarily have.
but by and large it is, it, itis a pretty welcoming spot.
And, um, you know, certainlydifferent than the vibe.
Um, at first point at PleasurePoint in Santa Cruz, certainly

(45:26):
different vibe than, than inHawaii, for sure.
And, and, and it's interesting,you know, if you, talk to Nathan
Florence or you talk to KaiLenny, um, you know, which I've
done, they, they like coming toMavericks because, because the,
the vibe is very, always verywelcoming.

(45:46):
you know, the community is verywelcoming and it's a, um, it's a
community for sure, you know,and, and, uh, and we've got the
Maverick surf boards and in, uh,in a couple of weeks and, and
everybody will be there and.
And it's going to be fun to seeeverybody and be part of that,
part of that group.
It's, it's a real, it's a reallystrong community.

(46:07):
I think the biggest thing interms of being accepted into
that community is safety andknowing.
people knowing that you've donethe work and know, what the
safety protocol is.
And, you know, one of thethings, you know, Bianca had
never had a, had a jet ski.

(46:27):
None of the women had a, had jetski support.
So I bought, a jet ski forBianca and, you know, and, and
we trained and we, and welearned how to, you know, do the
safety stuff and be there and besupportive.
And, all of that kind ofcontributed, I think, to being,
to being part of that community.
And, you know, I think at theend of the day, and when Bianca

(46:48):
first, interviewed me and wasdeciding whether she was going
to coach me or not.
A lot of it for her, most of itfor her was about would I
respect the wave you know, orwas I just some asshole
investment banker wanting to geta notch in my belt and, and, do
my Everest, if you will.
And, and it was really importantto her that I, you know, that I

(47:11):
was doing it for the rightreasons and that I was going to
respect the wave because thepeople that surf it a lot all,
you know, as I said earlier,it's like, it's like it's their
church.
And, and so if you're going tocome to someone's church, be
respectful.
and that's, that's really how Itworks out there.

Kush (47:33):
The church of mavericks sounds like a.
place for worship for the chosenfew and the fact that you were
taken there with Bianca Valenti,one of the all time greats of

(47:53):
big wave surfing for ourgeneration, that along with your
demonstrated drive Deeppreparation allowed you to earn
your place in the ranks or thelineup.
I'm curious, how did you getBianca to, to coach you?

(48:18):
I did not know that she is.
An established coach.
Did you, uh, just shower herwith Bitcoin besides, besides
demonstrating your, your zealand dedication?
How did that, uh, transpire?

Lionel (48:38):
how, how I decided to surf Mavericks was, um, or at
the time I decided to surfMavericks, I had been surfing,
with a, with a guy named MarcelSoros, who Marcel is, um, old
time, um, O'Neill pro, you know,from, from the, from the late
seventies, early eighties.
Um, and he, he's, he is the bonafide mayor of pleasure point.

(49:02):
Um, was down there and, and, uh,was part of that crew with flea
and all those guys.
all those, all those famousguys.
And, and I met him, um, when hewas a rep for, for a company
that, that, that I was aninvestor in.
And, um, and so he, Spent everyFriday morning with me at,

(49:23):
Pacifica when he was coming upand doing his rounds, um, to, to
the, to the, uh, surf shops uphere.
and so he would go and surf withme and then he took me down to
Pleasure Point and, um, wesurfed down there a bunch and we
were down there one day, maybefive years ago, four years ago.
And, uh, And it was big, uh, andwe were surfing, we were surfing

(49:48):
Pleasure Point, First Point, uh,and the faces were maybe 15 feet
or something, it was, so, but,Pleasure Point is very
forgiving, it's, you know, a 15foot wave of Pleasure Point is a
pretty easy wave to get into,and, anyway, I was catching
waves and having a lot of fun,and at the end of that session,
I asked Marcel, do you think Icould ever surf Mavericks?

(50:08):
And he was like, yeah, sure youcan, let's go next week.
And I was like, no, I don't wantto do that.
I, you know, I decided I wantedto have a coach and then I
decided that I wanted to have awoman coach.
And the reason I decided Iwanted to have a woman coach is
because I thought a woman wouldtake it more seriously and be
more safety oriented and, andnot, not be, um, You know,

(50:32):
cavalier about it.
And, and, uh, and so I was awareof Bianca, you know, cause, you
know, she's, as you know, she's,she's pretty famous.
And, during, I had never reallysurfed ocean beach, uh, and
during COVID, uh, in March of20, um, They closed all the
beaches in Marin, and so Istarted driving over the bridge

(50:53):
and surfing at Kelly's, andagain, I had never really surfed
Ocean Beach, and so I startedsurfing Kelly's and, uh, and
then, you know, moved south as Igot better and more confident.
Um, and I saw her on the beachone day and, uh, and so I went
up and introduced myself to herand, and, uh, told her I wanted
to surf Mavericks and asked herwhether she would coach me and

(51:15):
she literally laughed and walkedaway.
and, uh, and so, um, I knew.
Paige Elms, um, cause I sat onthe board of Surf Canada with
her, um, Paige is a, is another,uh, one of the top women big
wave surfers in the world and,and, uh, from Maui and a
Canadian actually, and which Iam, and so I reached out to

(51:37):
Paige and I asked Paige to vouchfor me to Biarca and to at least
ask Biarca to take a meetingwith me and hear what I had to
say.
And so Bianca reluctantly at,after Paige, Paige reached out
to her.
Bianca reluctantly, agreed tomeet with me and that, so that's
how I ended up getting her to,to coach me.

Kush (51:57):
Connections and, uh, some social engineering will, will
get us everywhere I would loveto, Get, uh, some of them on the
show.
I think they would be hugelyinspiring to others just as,
just as you are.

Lionel (52:11):
Bianca.
Bianca is amazing.
Um, so she, she's actuallystarting a coaching business
now.
And, and being pretty exclusiveabout it, um, she, you know,
she, she doesn't, she, she'scoached forever.
I mean, she's, she's taughtlittle kids to surf and done
that.
She'd never, I was the firstperson that she ever coached to

(52:31):
surf Mavericks.
Um, and I think, and I thinkshe's decided she's going to
take on one Mavericks student ayear.
Um, but she's in the process of,of launching a, a new coaching,
business and, and she's, she'sin a, she's an incredibly
thoughtful, amazing coach,really, really good coach.

(52:53):
And, and I could, could I havesurfed Mavericks without her?
Maybe.
Could I have done it safelywithout her?
No way.
You know, and, and that, thatwas the biggest thing that I
would say, you know, coming backto, you know, the first times I
was out there and falling firsttime I fell, I felt prepared and
so I, I didn't, there wasn'tanything to be scared of because

(53:15):
I knew, I knew that we had donethe work and, and that I had
done the work and that was allBianca that wasn't, you know, I
just did what she told me to do.
I mean, she told me I didn't cutany corners.
I did everything.
And I, you know, and I, I comefrom a long life of, of doing
extreme sports and doing, youknow, high level competition and

(53:35):
stuff.
And so I, like, you know, I'm,I'm a coachable person.
you know, my, my training is, ishaving been coached my whole
life, I think also played intothat, but.
But I, I let her coach me and Idid what she said.
And, and that's, you know,that's something that is
interesting that, uh, that I'llsay, that, you know, in, in the
article that I wrote, there wasan article written about me.

(53:58):
and, and they called me a Valand I had no idea what a Val
was.
And it turns out val means,means vulnerable adult learner
and, and I would, I would saythe reason I wrote the article
that I wrote, and frankly, thereason that I agreed to do this
podcast is because I look at itas a 61 year old person and, to

(54:20):
answer the question that youasked earlier about what, you
know, when I decide to paddleinto a wave, am I worried about
what people are thinking aboutme?
No, I don't.
I never worry about that.
I worry about doing the bestthat I can do with what I have.
I know I look like a kook.
I'm six foot five.
I'm skinny.
I, you know, I wear a helmet.
I'm one of the few people thatwear it, wears a helmet.

(54:41):
I, I know I look, I lookridiculous out there.
but also know that I'm one ofthe, one of, one of the people
that is having the most fun.
And, and for me, that's at theend of the day, that's the most
important thing.
And, And to be, um, you know,when I got called a Val,
initially, I was thought, well,that's a slur.

(55:02):
And then I thought, no,actually, I'm going to embrace
that.
I like, I like that.
I like, I like being avulnerable adult learner.
And I think as people age,particularly around physical
things, as people age, if theycan allow themselves to, to be
vulnerable and learn new things,their life will be way richer
for it.
They'll live a much, much richerlife.

(55:24):
I mean, I, I, I thank my luckystars that I found surfing and
discovered it because everysingle day and I, I, it's, it's
interesting.
I in the last week I've had awhole bunch of people ask start
asking me about what I'm goingto do for my 70th.
And I'm like, I'm 61.
I'm about to turn 62.
I, every time I surf, I'm get,I'm still getting better.

(55:48):
It's one of the only things thatI do in my life that I'm getting
better at physically every day.
The only other thing that I dothat I'm getting better at is I
play mandolin and I startedplaying mandolin when I was 50.
And I'm you know, and I, and Ithink I'll continue to get
better at mandolin for the, youknow, maybe, maybe longer than,

(56:08):
than I'll be able to continue toget better at surfing, but I
feel like I've got at leastanother five.
Maybe hopefully 10 more years.
of being physically able to getbetter at surfing every day.
And, and to have that as a 60,almost 62 year old person and
have something that, that, youknow, I'm that excited about and

(56:32):
enjoy doing that much is such agift.
you know, so for me, that's,that's, that's the best thing
about it.

Kush (56:38):
Besides being eminently coachable, you are also really
easy to speak with it's almostlike you, you're anticipating
some of my questions even beforeI asked them.
I did want to ask you about,VAL, the Vulnerable Adult
Learner Thank you.
term that I saw in read thearticle and it's so cool how you

(57:02):
have turned what might be a slurinto almost a badge of honor
where I also experienced that tosome degree where the older I
get, the more I care less aboutwhat people are thinking about
me being a kook in the water ora kook out of the water doing
something else.
And I think many people who arelistening to the show, most

(57:26):
people listening are.
between the ages of 35 to 60.
And I think many of them aregoing through that same
experience where it just mattersless what people think.
And yeah, thank you for sharingthat.
Getting into a bit of your, uh,Your fitness, your mobility,

(57:49):
your maintenance activities.
You came into the surfing world,bringing this background of, um,
rich athletic accomplishments.
You were a decathlete as ayoungster, which I think some
people tell me is one of thetoughest of sports because you

(58:13):
have to master so many differentdisciplines and perhaps, Dick
athletes could be, in some ways,the most all rounded athletes.
You also partook and, andSuccessfully competed in other
kinds of adventure sports.

(58:35):
I'm wondering what are some ofthose habits, routines from
those days that you brought intothe surfing world?
What are some of the things youlearned that have helped you
succeed, both physically Butthen also mentally, which is

(58:58):
such a huge part of, uh,surfing, especially big wave
surfing.
Any unique things that youbrought over and what can the
everyday athlete hope to learnfrom those experiences you've

(59:18):
had in transferring skills andbeing able to, uh, be fit and
agile with, uh, Surfing as youget older.

Lionel (59:30):
So when I stopped competing, in decathlon and I
was in, I was in my twenties andI went, went to work on Wall
Street and, and I'd been, at ahigh level for my whole life at
that point.
and always fit, always doingsomething.
And, um, I decided I needed,something to, keep me going and

(59:55):
for my mental health at thattime because I was working on
Wall Street and I was workinglong hours and, and, and so I
decided I made a rule formyself, which I, which I have
never broken in my life, that Iwould never go three days in a
row without some sort ofphysical activity.
for me, I never got out ofshape.

(01:00:18):
I never got, I was never not fitfrom the time when I
transitioned from, from highlevel competition, um, into,
into being a businessman.
I, I maintained, and to this daymaintain that rule that I, I
will never go three days in arow without, without doing, you

(01:00:39):
know, some sort of physicalfitness.
That would be, and I've toldmany, many people over the years
about that rule, and that if youcan, if you can maintain that
rule, your, your health will,and mental health will, will,
will be excellent because of it.
and I saw so many of my fellowcompetitors, particularly, you
know, the guys I played footballwith.

(01:01:01):
You know, we're big, big guysand then stopped playing
football and stopped working outand didn't stop eating and, you
know, and, and then, and thentried really, you know, to, to,
to, to get fit later is it's,it's, it's hard and the older
you get, the harder it is tostay fit and the harder it is to

(01:01:22):
come back from injuries and, andall of those things.
And so for me, it starts withjust maintaining the, as high
fitness level as I possibly can.
Surfing is without a doubt themost difficult thing I've ever
taken on in my life.
you know, and I'm, I includepole vaulting.
And that I have, that's one ofthe things I've done in my life.
Um, but, but in terms ofphysical challenges, it is

(01:01:46):
without a doubt one of the mostdifficult things in the world to
do.
There are so many variables thatyou have to deal with.
You know, and, and just, justthe physical move of a pop up is
really, really hard.
I took, I took lessons from aguy up, up in, um, Nevada named
Rob Case.
Um, give a shout out to Rob,anybody that wants to learn to

(01:02:08):
paddle properly, um, learn howto pop up properly, look up Rob.
He's, he's, um, he's an amazingcoach.
And I wish I'd gone to him.
I didn't, Bianca introduced meto him.
And so I had been surfing for,you know, six years, I guess,
when I met him, I wish I'd methim when I first started
surfing, because some of thethings that he told me about

(01:02:30):
helped me so much.
And I wish I'd known it from thebeginning.
One of the things that he taughtme to do was a reverse pop up.
So you start, you start, In yourstance that you want to be in
and then you slowly go down intothe lay down position on the
board and you do that over andover again, 30, 40 times and for

(01:02:54):
some reason, I don't know,understand the physiological
aspects to it, but for somereason it's the brain is able to
flip that motion around so thatwhen you actually turn around to
do a pop up, you end up inexactly the stance that you want
to end up in.
And so one of the things that Ido every single day is part of
my whether I'm surfing today ornot, I didn't surf today, but I

(01:03:18):
did all my, my core body workand stretching and stuff that I
do every day.
And one of the things that I doevery day is I do 20 pop ups.
And because for me, you know, Igrew up water skiing and skiing
and windsurfing and snowboardingand you know, I've done lots and
lots of stuff on a board moving.
Okay.

(01:03:39):
The hardest thing in surfing isto pop up.
If you, you know, for me, if Ican get to my feet, I'm usually
pretty good.
The big variable for me is, canI get to my feet?
And, and that's whether I'msurfing at Cronkite or whether
I'm surfing at Mavericks.
The biggest, still to this day,you know, almost 10 years later,
uh, from when I started surfing,the, the most challenging thing

(01:04:00):
for me is, is the pop up.
And so that's something Ipractice on dry land.
And, and, and it helps a lot,you know, cause so if you can,
you can get your pop up so thatyou don't even have to think
about it.
That takes away one of thevariables.
Um, you know, when you look atthe guys that have been surfing
from the time they're littlekids, they don't like their,

(01:04:21):
their pop up is so natural, sosmooth.
They don't even think about it.
Right?
Like it just, it's so natural.
They're, they're thinking aboutall the other things going on.
They're not thinking about theirpop up.
I'm still thinking about my popup as the waves coming and all
those things.
Right.
And so, anyway, so that, that'dbe something that I would say
for somebody learning to surf,focus, you know, get on a yoga
mat and focus on the pop up and,and do that every day.

(01:04:45):
Cause if you can't pop up,you're not going to surf.
I do a lot of core body stuff.
I started doing yoga.
I'd never done yoga in my life.
yoga has helped me a lot interms of my core body strength
and balance particularly.
Um, so that's something that,you know, I'm glad I wish I'd
done yoga, you know, for therest of my life.
I haven't, I've only been doingit in my fifties into my

(01:05:05):
sixties.
but yoga has been amazing.
I don't do that much strengthwork.
I do, you know, I do pushups andpushups and sit ups and pop ups
every day, but that's reallylike, I don't do a lot of
weight, you know, and I might doa weight workout with light
barbells once a week.
Not more than that.

(01:05:26):
And then I used to be a cyclist.
And so I still cycle on dayslike, you know, yesterday, uh,
or two days ago, I didn't surfand today I, I'm not going to
surf.
And so I'll, I'll get on mymountain bike and go for, you
know, do, do mountain bike ride,um, for, for aerobic fitness.
I tend to do something almostevery day.
Um, my, my biggest thing is I,is I, I don't like to give

(01:05:50):
myself rest days and I know Ineed to.
And so I have to force myself togive myself rest days.
you know, that, that's somethingthat I, that I try to force
myself to do one rest day aweek.
Um, And I'm, and I'm always gladI do.
you know, I always come backstronger and better the next day
after I do a rest day.

Kush (01:06:08):
Thanks for walking us through that.
I have taken a class with RobCase myself.
Shout out to Rob.
I've also recommended Rob toothers.
He is phenomenal indeed.
The part you shared about.
The reverse pop up is reallyintriguing.
I could do a solo podcast juston my journey on trying to

(01:06:33):
master the pop up.
At, at one point, Lionel, I hadpainter's tape on my living room
floor to mark exact dimensionswith which my feet should land.
I think I learned later in mysurfing journey that my pop up

(01:06:53):
was terrible.
I didn't really understand.
I what it means to be low inyour squat when one pops up and
people or friends sometimeslaugh at me, given my, uh, South
Asian heritage.
Uh, Indians are supposed to be areally good squatters, can hold
their squats for hours, youknow, and here I am trying to,

(01:07:13):
uh, trying to get into a basicsquat and then not really having
the mobility that it needs.
It sounds like you,

Lionel (01:07:22):
I still can't do it.
And that's the other thing.
That's the other thing I doevery day is I squat and I still
can't squat all the way down onmy haunches and bare feet.
I can do it.
I can do it in running shoeswith that.
Like I need, but I need whateverit is half an inch of heel.
I, I do it.
I do it every day and I've beendoing it every day for a long
time and I still can't get allthe way down.

(01:07:44):
It's.
It's amazing to me that I, thatI can't, but I can't, I, I, but
I try every day.

Kush (01:07:51):
it is, funnily motivating in a way that somebody who, you
know, Surf's Mavericks, Surf'sSunset, Surf's all of these big
waves is perhaps working to getpast some of the same mobility
challenges that I am as youreveryday, uh, uh, surfer.
How do you get past sometimes?

(01:08:15):
Mental plateaus.
And this is a question that alistener Vishal wanted to know.
You know, we got surfing.
We are at the mercy of mothernature.
Some days you have goodsessions.
Some days you don't.
You went five sessions withoutcatching a wave at Mavericks.
How do you keep up that, uh,that fire going to go back into

(01:08:39):
the ocean day after day and, uh,keep, uh, trying to surf better?

Lionel (01:08:45):
I think, I think for me, it is that it's new for me to be
in the ocean every day.
And it's, and, and so, and sofor me, it's, it's not so much
about how many waves I catch.
And, and don't get me wrong, Icount, I count my waves and I,
you know, I keep track of themall with my app and all that

(01:09:06):
stuff, and, and I try, you know,I, I, I've got a couple of
rules, like if I, if I'm, if I'mgoing to paddle out at Ocean
Beach this winter, the most Igot turned back was four times
before I finally got out, tookme well over an hour to get out
to the outside on one of thedays.
And, but I, I just decided I'm,I'm, even if I don't catch a

(01:09:28):
wave, I'm going to get, I'mgoing to get out to the outside
and, and, and I made that, youknow, so today, so today's a,
today's a fitness day.
Today's not a wave catching day.
It's a fitness day.
and so it's all about yourmental attitude and, trying to
decide what you're, wanting,what your end game is and what

(01:09:49):
you're, what you're wanting toaccomplish overall, and being
flexible, And that's somethingthat I learned when I was
competing at a, at a very highlevel.
Some days it's just not yourday.
and if it's not your day, don't,don't force it.
Right.
And I've had days where I justwasn't feeling it, and I,
paddled out at, at, at OceanBeach or even at, at Mavericks,
and I'm like, I, I'm not feelingthis today, but I'm, I'm, I'm

(01:10:11):
glad I'm out here.
I'm gonna watch, I'm gonnalearn.
I'm gonna, and, and I think oneof the biggest things for me is
that, every time I go, I'mgetting better in some way,
shape, or form.
I'm getting better.
And every time I go, I'm stilllearning stuff.
And so for me, That's one ofthe, you know, as I said
earlier, that's one of themagical things about surfing for
me and what keeps me engaged andwilling to go.

(01:10:33):
Um, and, and even when I'm notcatching waves or when I'm, I'm
not having a great day.
I mean, I had a day last week atCronkite.
I could not get to my feet forthe life of me.
I mean, I felt like a totalfricking kook.
It was terrible.
it was a beautiful day and mybuddies were out there and we're
all, you know, they're allcatching waves and I was
watching them catch waves.
And, and it was, you know, I wasjust glad to be out there.

(01:10:55):
And, and so I think, I think alot of it's just about your
frame of mind and, and tryingto, trying to make the best out
of whatever, whatever thesituation is.
I'll go surfing.
I went surfing, got a buddy ofmine, Jeremy, Um, who I took to
Mavericks actually, uh, thisyear, and he caught, he caught a
wave his fir very first time onat Mavericks.

(01:11:16):
He caught and rode a wave allthe way down to the channel.
Kind of pissed me off.
he's a much better surfer than Iam, but I was, I was super happy
for him.
But we, he, his, his local breakis, uh, his four mile and, uh.
And I drove down to surf withhim at four mile and, and it was
blowing like stink.
And it was, nobody was there.

(01:11:37):
And, and he was like, you know,it's kind of gnarly.
Do you want to go out?
And I was like, yeah, we'rehere.
Like, you know, my dad, alwayshad the saying that we grew up
with and that I, you know, I'veimparted on my kids and, uh,
which is if you don't go, youwon't know.
And my dad used to say that allthe time.
And you know, it'd be rainingout in the chalet and,

(01:11:57):
everyone's like, oh, let's notgo skiing today.
And my dad would be like, well,if we don't go, we won't know.
And out he'd go, and sureenough, you'd get a couple of
great runs and it was worthgoing.
And, uh, and so I said, youknow, I, that day at, at Four
Mile, I said to Jeremy, if wedon't go, we won't know.
So we went and we paddled outand, uh, and.
And it ended up just cleaning upfor like 30 minutes.

(01:12:20):
And we had this little windowand we both caught a couple of
really good waves and, and wecould have stood on the shore
and watched and, not gone outand not caught those waves.
And we would not have beenbetter for it.
So, you know, and at the end ofthe session, Jeremy said to me,
he said, you know, you'rehilarious.
Like it doesn't matter how bador good it is.

(01:12:41):
You always have a smile on yourface and you're always totally
stoked.
Yeah, but it's like, what elseare we going to do?
It's so fun.
Like you might as well go do it.
that's, and that's kind of my,my mentality.
And, and I'm glad, you know, Ithink one of the things for me
that makes that easy to havethat mindset and having been
super competitive when I was,when I was a kid.

(01:13:01):
Uh, and still competitive insome things and go on a golf
course and pretty competitive.
but I know I'm not going to winany competitions.
I I'm not competing with anybodyin surfing.
It's just for my own joy.
And, and that's the only reasonI do it.
And so I get nothing to prove toanybody.
you know, if I have a bad daysurfing, I don't get pissed off
about it.

(01:13:21):
I just, I just chalk it up to,okay, well we learned some
things today and we'll applythem tomorrow and hopefully
we'll have a better daytomorrow.

Kush (01:13:30):
Such a great attitude to bring to the water.
Any day in the water is betterthan a, not than a day out of
the water.

Lionel (01:13:40):
Percent.
A hundred percent.

Kush (01:13:43):
Any significant injuries you have to battle in the past
or you have to work aroundtoday.
For example, surfing can beincredibly taxing on one's
shoulders, for example.

Lionel (01:13:59):
Yeah.
my shoulders fortunately havebeen fine and, I've had previous
knee surgeries.
My, my left knee is probably.
Mm, which is my front.
I'm regular, so, so it is, myfront, leg is 90%.
Maybe not, not, certainly not ahundred percent.
So that, you know, I wish it wasbetter.

(01:14:21):
you know, the biggest thing forme was, and why I wear a helmet
is, um, in, in the first twoyears that I was surfing at
Cronkite, I had two serious headinjuries.
Um, I got run over by a kid and,and took.
14 staples to the top of myhead.
And then another day, my ownboard hit me in the head and I
took another 12 staples to thehead.

(01:14:43):
And when I came, when I camehome after the second one, after
the second trip to the emergencyroom, my wife looked at me and
she said, you know, you've doneextreme sports your whole life.
You always wear a helmet.
You've never had a head injury.
You've been surfing for twoyears.
You've had two serious headinjuries.
Why aren't you wearing a helmet?
And that's when I started doingresearch on helmets and, and,

(01:15:04):
you know, figured out a goodhelmet to wear.
And, uh, and, and so I've beenwearing a helmet.
I always wear, I never not, Inever don't wear it.
and, and a number of people,number of people with Mavericks
have started, have startedwearing them.
Every time I surf at Ocean,somebody paddle up to me and ask
me about my helmet and I'veprobably sold, I've probably

(01:15:25):
sold 20 or 30 helmets for DMC,um, because, because of wearing
it.
Other than that, I haven'treally had any, bad surfing
injuries.
so I guess I'm maybe, I'm maybelucky on that.
but I've had, you know, I've hadlots of, you know, I broke my
back mountain biking and I'vehad elbow surgery.
I've had all kinds of surgeriesover the years and various
things, but none of them I wishmy left knee worked better than

(01:15:50):
it does, but it's fine.

Kush (01:15:51):
Any kind of, uh, body workers or, uh, specialists that
you want to shout out to whohelp keep you in tip top shape.

Lionel (01:16:02):
Uh, I do, I do weekly massage with a guy named Trevor
Bridgewater who's at Stinsonand, he's amazing and keeps me,
keeps me going.
that's really the only thing Ido.

Kush (01:16:13):
Great.
Thanks for, uh, walking usthrough that.
Amy, another listener had thisquestion on diet and, uh,
nutrition.
Any different things that you dosupplement wise, diet wise,
again, that contribute to youragility, your fitness, fitness
wise?

Lionel (01:16:31):
when I first started surfing Mavericks, I was really
worried about, hydration.
cause when we do a Mavericksession, you're usually out
there for minimum three hoursand, um, and sometimes longer.
But usually three hours, whichis a long time to be sitting out
in the water, and I, Iexperience cramps in my calves,
that has been one kind of thingthat has, has impeded me,

(01:16:53):
particularly more at Ocean Beachthan at Mavericks, but, but
certainly happened at Maverickstoo, um, and, and if you've ever
had a cramp, In your, in yourlegs, in the water, it's, and,
and you're at Ocean Beach on abig day, it is not a happy
thing.
It's brutal.
and so I've, I've done a lot ofwork in terms of what I used to

(01:17:14):
do when I was riding bikes.
And trying to figure out ways toapply that, um, to surfing.
And so what I end up doing is,is I'll, I'll pre hydrate
significantly.
And, um, one of the, one of the,uh, supplements I use is
something called Morton, um,which, which is, uh, very, very

(01:17:36):
well known in the, in thecycling world, um, spelled M A U
R T E N.
and it's a.
Sodium based additive to water.
that a lot of cyclists use, andso what I'll do is I'll preload,
you know, as I'm driving down toMavericks, you know, it takes me

(01:17:57):
about an hour to get there, andso I'll drink, I'll usually
drink two liters of Mortonbefore I get there.
You know, essentially prehydrate, my body.
And it's also much better, youknow, from a concussion protocol
standpoint, if you've got a lotof, if you're really hydrated,
um, the likelihood of getting aconcussion is much less.
And so, and then the other thingI do is, um, is I do take gel

(01:18:21):
packs out with me, uh, when I goout to Mavericks, I just shove
them in my, in my wetsuit and soI'll just, and, and again, I
just, that's what I used to dowhen, when I was on the bike,
you know, if I would be on thebike for three or four hours,
I'd have a couple of gel packs,a couple of gummies and, and,
um, and, and consume them while,while, you know, You're riding
and, and so I just take thoseout with me.

(01:18:42):
Um, and that's helped a lot.
Uh, and, and particularly interms of, of the cramping.
because that cramping is theworst thing for sure.

Kush (01:18:49):
Yes, uh, cramping sucks.
I experience that sometimesafter a hard day outdoors and,
you know, sometimes I'm, uh, I'mdriving and I'm trying to, press
my foot on the throttle of thebrake and I find this cramp
shoot up.
It's, it's, it's super annoying.
So maybe the, uh, sodium basedadditives, maybe some of those
things could be helpful.

(01:19:13):
One last listener question fromPeter, before we get into some
really fun ending questions.
Lana, you have.
Being a competitive athlete allyour life.
You've also been an investmentbanker, which from all accounts
is not the lightest of careersto have.

(01:19:35):
How have you kept all of this inbalance?
You also have a family.
any unique insights into yourown life?
To be able to, uh, performingwith your training, with the
mental aspects, when you wereworking at Wall Street, let's
say, would you wake up at 3am togo ride your bicycle before

(01:20:00):
going to work?
What kind of discipline andbalance have you had?

Lionel (01:20:06):
I've always been really disciplined around, as I said
earlier, around, maintaining myfitness and, and creating the
space to do that.
And I, I learned early on in mybusiness career that if I wasn't
feeling good physically, thenthat would impact my mental
capacity.
I think that there's a tendencyto, when you're starting your

(01:20:29):
career, to think that, You'vegot to be there all the time and
that, and that the, you know, ifyou're not there, the work's not
going to get done and havingpriorities screwed up.
it's super interesting comingout of COVID as I watched a lot
of the young people and, and howthe work life balance importance
has changed significantly fromwhen you and I were starting our

(01:20:51):
careers.
And maybe it's swung too far,you know, the other way, who
knows?
but, I would say having thediscipline to, to make sure that
you're doing something physicalevery day is, is really, really
important for your mentalhealth.
and overall health.
And so I've just always beensuper disciplined around that
and, created the time to do itand knew that if I did it, that

(01:21:14):
my performance in my job wouldalways be better.
and so, you know, to take thehour a day, made the other, 8,
9, 10, 12 hours, way moreproductive.
That was what I learned.
and so I was always reallydisciplined about it.
The other tip that my dad gaveme when I was first starting my
business career was to put your,put your vacations in the
calendar at the beginning of theyear and go on them.

(01:21:38):
And I just did that.
I always just did that.
And um, no matter what was goingon at work, I, I've never
cancelled a vacation in myentire life.
And it's amazing.
You come back and the worlddidn't stop and the work kept
going and everything was fine.
And so, again, I was lucky thatI had a dad who had figured that

(01:22:03):
out and had imparted thatknowledge to me.
and so, you know, I, I think, Ithink particularly for
competitive people or highperforming people, like there's
a tendency to think that, youknow, if I'm not there, it's not
going to get done it's just nottrue.
and so figuring that out at arelatively young age, I think, I
think made, made a hugedifference.
I, I've been lucky that I'vebeen able to prioritize my

(01:22:25):
family and spend time with mykids along the way.
That's been hugely importantand, you know, in terms of their
development, but also for me,um, selfishly somebody said to
me along the way that, thatthere's no such thing as quality
time.
There's just time.
And, and I think that's true,particularly when it comes to
your kids.
and so that, that was somethingthat somebody said to me that,

(01:22:47):
You know, struck me as being oneof those truisms to live by
that's really it for me.
I, I've been really lucky, alongthe way to be able to do mostly
what I want to do as it relatesto, to the fun things in life.
And I always say, I always tryto say, yes, I always just try
to say yes.
Um, and you know, the work, thework, the work gets done, you

(01:23:10):
figure out how to get the workdone.

Kush (01:23:11):
Those life lessons from your dad are, you know, should
be written on a plaque.
The one, this one where planyour most important events of
the year, which really is one'svacation should be sacrosanct
and one should follow that.
And the other one is, is notneeding to respond to every

(01:23:34):
message that comes in, in thisday of all kinds of, uh, instant
messaging.
I think that is.
a hugely vital one.
Often, you know, unless one isan ER doctor or something, if
one doesn't respond to things,often those things take care of

(01:23:54):
themselves yeah, can't, can't,can't highlight them enough.
If you were to go back your life20 years, anything you would do
differently?

Lionel (01:24:05):
Oh, I would've started surfing earlier.

Kush (01:24:09):
Great answer.

Lionel (01:24:10):
I, I wish I, as much, as much as I, as, I'm glad I've got
it now, I, I would've loved tohave started even, you know,
even in my forties.
I, I would've loved to have donethat.
no, you know, I, I, I, I'vebeen, I've, I've lived a very
fulfilling life and I, and, youknow, and, and if God forbid I

(01:24:32):
drop dead tomorrow, I, you know.
No one's going to say he didn'tlive a full life.
Um, so I've been super lucky tolive a full life and, and, uh,
and, and I, you know, I don'thave a lot of time for looking
back.
It's, it's, it's, you know, it'snot how I've lived my life.
I, I, I, I tend to look forwardand, um, you know, and I, and I

(01:24:57):
try to do the things that I,that I want to do.
I don't, you know, I don't have,I don't have bucket lists per se
because I try, I just try and dothe things that I want to do and
I just go do them and, I've beensuper lucky that way.
I, I've done some, you know,I've done some, when I, when I
turned 40, I did look back on mylife and looked at the things
that I wish I'd done.

(01:25:17):
versus what I had done.
And out of that came bagpipes.
I started bagpiping when I was40 and, um, because I'd always
wanted to bagpipe, but I nevermade time for it.
And, and so I'd regretted thatthat was like at the top of my
list of crazy things that I wishI'd done.
And, and so, and now, you know,21 years later, I'm a pretty

(01:25:38):
proficient bagpiper you know, itplayed big.
Played funerals and weddings andcommencements and playing, I'm
playing up on Saturday nightwith an ACDC cover band up in,
up in Sonoma, playing, playing,uh, that, that epic, uh, song.
It's a long way to the top ifyou want to rock and roll with
bagpipes in it.
And I'm sitting in with themplaying.

(01:26:00):
So for me, it's, it's, it'smostly just about, figuring
stuff out that I, that I wishI'd done doing it, just going
and doing it.

Kush (01:26:09):
I used to love ACDC.
as a kid.
So besides one day hoping tosurf with you, I also want to
come and hear you, uh, playbagpipes.
Final, final, uh, fun rapid firequestions before we let you go
back to your afternoon.

Lionel (01:26:25):
Okay.

Kush (01:26:26):
Lionel, what about your life are you the most proud of?

Lionel (01:26:31):
My kids.

Kush (01:26:33):
Excellent.
Any dream waves you want tosurf?

Lionel (01:26:37):
I caught one wave at Waimea on a kind of, kind of
okay day.
I'd love to go back to Waimea ona, on a, on a good day.
I'd really like to catch Waimeaon it on a good day.
That would be, that'd be superfun.

Kush (01:26:50):
Any book or movie that you have most recommended to others?

Lionel (01:26:55):
Oh, well, the book that got me into surfing was
Barbarian Days, which, if you,if you haven't, as a surfer, if
you haven't read that book, youowe it to yourself to read that
book.
And I'm due to read it again.
I've actually gone and surfed alot of the breaks that, that he
talks about in, in that, in thatbook, and I got to go back and
read it and, compare it to whatI, to what I've been able to do.

Kush (01:27:19):
It's kind of remarkable how many non surfers have told
me that they loved that book.
Bill Finnegan, gifted writer.
Everybody go read, uh, BarbarianDays.
And yeah, uh, what is a mealthat you could eat every day?

Lionel (01:27:39):
a meal I could eat every day.
Well, I'd eat the meal I eatevery day, which we talked about
at the head, at the head of theshow, which my, you know, I'm,
I'm, I'm pretty basic when itcomes to food.
I'm a kind of a meat andpotatoes guy and I eat my cereal
in the morning.
if I was on a desert Island orif I had to go and, and, and I
could only have one thing, it'dbe a peanut butter and jam

(01:28:01):
sandwich.
I could live on that.
I like that without any problemwhatsoever.

Kush (01:28:04):
Crunchy or creamy?

Lionel (01:28:07):
I like crunchy.

Kush (01:28:08):
me too.
Good, good, good answer.
It's been a delightfulconversation, Lionel.
I have had goosebumps the wholeway as you have taken us through
your journey into big wavesurfing.
Thank you so much for coming onthe show today.

Lionel (01:28:26):
Well, next time we'll have to talk about, uh, the, the
surf accessories business that Istarted with John, John Florence
and John Paizal, VEA supplies.
and then, my friend RyderThomas, who's, who's got his,
uh, destination surf resorts,Pegasus, which I was going to
say that the, the wave I, thewave, I, I'm going to go back to

(01:28:47):
soon is one of the Pegasusresorts is in Samoa, uh, on the
island of Aganoa and, uh, andthere's a barreling right.
And I've been there twice and Iwasn't a good enough surfer to
actually get barreled.
And now I think I could.
So it's time to go back to backto Samoa.
That would be the other place Iwould go for sure.

Kush (01:29:04):
If you need a deckhand for the boat, thanks a lot.

Lionel (01:29:11):
We'll do it.
Yeah.
And, uh, we'll see you at OceanBeach sometime.

Kush (01:29:15):
That would be amazing.
What a fun chat.
I'm an animated person to beginwith, but I was really feeling
it today.
Lannan really does personify theeasiest athlete.
The guy did not even get intothe sport until his fifties.
Talk about trying new things.

(01:29:36):
Sure.
Landon's been an athlete all hislife.
But wow.
What was most inspiring was hislove for learning his ability to
find joy in the process.
Returning over and over to thewater after Bluetooth beatings.
For Mazda waves and sessionswhere he left the ocean empty

(01:29:56):
handed.
But some are found.
The gumption to return againwith the curiosity and mindset
of someone who truly feels.
The love of being a learner.
I think there's so much to learnhere for both folks starting
something new.
As well as well.
Crusty diehards.
I was sometimes one of them whodid not have a good time.

(01:30:20):
If I didn't got enough waves.
Oh, well, meet my own standardsof performance while being in
the ocean surfing.
I'm certainly school here andwe'll hope to borrow from
landlords attitude.
Next time I'm in the water.
Thanks for tuning in again.
If you have stayed with us thislong.

(01:30:41):
Please click follow.
On the app, so you can keepgetting the goodness.
For a long time to come.
Until next time, stayvulnerable, adventurous, and
most of all, stay ageless.

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#19 Lionel Conacher - Making History as the Oldest Rookie at Mavericks, "The Mount Everest" of Big Wave Surfing

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#19 Lionel Conacher - Making History as the Oldest Rookie at Mavericks, "The Mount Everest" of Big Wave Surfing