#5 Ari Tulla - Endurance Sports for Longevity vs Intensity, Water Fasting, Tracking Sleep and Personalized Supplements for All - Ageless Athlete - Stories and Secrets of Adventure Sports Icons

Episode Transcript
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Yeti Stereo Microphone (00:03):
Friends, welcome back to the ageless
athlete podcast, where weuncover stories and tease out
secrets of outperformingathletes in our quest to stay
ageless.
This is your host, KushKhandelwal from our bunker in
the Mission District, SanFrancisco.
Thank you for your fantasticresponse to the launch.

(00:24):
If you enjoyed the show, pleasedo rate us and subscribe to us
online as it helps others findthe show.
A different kind of guest today.
We have Ari Tulla, a Finnishoutdoor athlete and a creator
and visionary of smart nutritionand quantified health services.

(00:46):
Ari is an avid adventurer.
He climbs, surfs, and skis, butalso innovates at the
intersection of medicine,nutrition, health, and sports
performance.
His company, Elo Health,leverages personal biometric
data to give you fine tunedsupplement guidance.

(01:07):
backed by science.
While his company partners withelite athletes such as climber
Tommy Caldwell and ultra runnerDean Karnazes, his dream is to
bring high end nutritionaccessible to the average
person.
Tune in to find out why waterfasting may be good for you and

(01:29):
why even one drink can affectyour sleep quality.

Track 1 (01:35):
Hey Ari, how are ya?
I think for once, uh, we are inthe same time zone.
I know you do a lot of travelingover, uh, different seasons, but
I think we are both, uh, on westcoast time, uh, in California.
I see, I see some sunlightperhaps, uh, streaming into your
room.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (01:51):
Yeah.
Hey, great to be here.
Thanks, Kush, I'm in, uh, I'mback in home in San Francisco
and, um, yeah, crazy, crazy NewYear's start.
Um, happy to be alive and, andback in, in California.
I spent a new year in, um, inFinland in all the way in
Lapland.
And, uh, that was kindainteresting.
First time the kids and thewhole family we went to there,

(02:14):
uh, had extended family with usas well.
So, uh, very dark, no sunlightat all for two weeks and, um,
and very, uh, cold at times.
You know, something like minus20 far and a.

Track 1 (02:28):
Well, that is certainly a world away from, uh, from us
here in California where wesometimes complain when the
temperature, uh, you know, dipsbelow 50 degree, uh, Fahrenheit.
So, uh, so welcome back and, andfor those of us who are not
watching this on video, what Iimmediately love about, uh,

(02:49):
about your setup here, one, isyou have a very professional
looking, uh, uh, lookingrecording room.
And number two, you have these,um, montages of, uh, outdoor
sports, uh, behind you, uh, mindsharing.
What do we see on the wallbehind you?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (03:06):
Yeah, I, there's a couple of my, my
son's drawings and then, uh,there's also Alex, uh, ho and in
the first time when he wasclimbing a a half dome, um, and
that was the le that, you know,he was, uh, feeling kind of
shaky.
It's an easy le you know, to go.
And, and this photo was donelater, you know, uh, SMY and

(03:28):
Alex went there to take thephoto, just that, that wasn't
climbing even, but, you know,and he was laughing at the whole
thing.
But, you know, it's a greatphoto.
It was the year, year photo ofthe year for Nazi I think for,
for one year.
And then lemme throw one more.
It's kind of cool.
This is, I got this, uh, a fewweeks ago, so this kind of fun,
it's, uh,

Track 1 (03:47):
Mm.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_1506 (03:48):
we, we started to work with, uh,
with Tommy Caldwell.
So, uh, they sent me like agift, uh, photo from, from the
photo suit.
So that's pretty cool.

Track 1 (03:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Your, your, uh, the wall behindyou, uh, you know.
Shares, uh, stories for those ofus who are clued in.
And yeah, the Holl one, I thinkit made the Nagio cover, and I
think it also spawned, uh, thiswhole trend of people taking
photos of, uh, themselves, youknow, standing on ledges.
I I really hope nobody, uh,suffered any, uh, any, any

(04:21):
critical accidents, uh, tryingto imitate and, and create like
Instagram memes.
But, uh, but anyway, moving on.
Um, Ari, uh, good to have you onthe show again.
Uh, mind telling us a little bitabout yourself, um, where you're
from, what do you do, and then,uh, what brings you into the
world of the outdoors?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (04:42):
Yeah, perfect.
So, um, Ari is my name.
I'm from, uh, from Finland.
Um, been living in the Bay Areafor, in San Francisco for about
15, 16 years now.
So I feel like a veryCalifornian, very San Fcan, if
that's the word.
And, um, I, I have like twothings I did in my, my youth.
I, I was very deep focused in,um, in playing with computers

(05:06):
and, um, and getting in thatworld.
Um, got my first PC 0 8 6, Ithink, uh, when I was six years
old in early eighties.
And, um, and then, you know, Ialso started to play sports very
young age.
So I was doing hockey, icehockey mainly, and, and did
Nordic skiing, Finnish baseball.

(05:26):
Oh.
Oh, sorry.
That's a very unique, maybe it'sa Finnish baseball is the word,
but you know, it's like a verydifferent type of baseball and,
but, you know, spend my, myyouth in those two endeavors
and, and always had a hope to belike a pro athlete in my youth.
And, and I think I realized inlike high school that maybe I'm
a bit too small, um, not maybehave the ability to read the

(05:49):
floor or the ice like you needin know hockey.
And, uh, that was the time when,you know, hockey players were
getting bigger.
I'm, I'm a six foot, um, and notthe small, smallest guy.
But when you look at the guyswho play now in NHL, I mean,
they're, they're far bigger and,and, um, you know, somehow I
then, you know, decided that,you know, the team sports and,
you know, kind of the organizedsports are there.

(06:10):
And um, and then I went to studyand, um, got into a startup on a
first day in college.
That was in 98.
So building websites and, anddoing stuff like that in the web
1.0.
So that was kind the beginningfor me to becoming an
entrepreneur and to buildcompanies.
So I got in very, very early.
And, um, and in college also Imet my, my best man, you know,

(06:33):
who was a, he's a great athletestill today.
Uh, he's a triathlete and, anddoes swim running, for example,
at the top, you know, 20 peoplein the world.
And, um, and he talked me intodoing some like endurance races
and stuff like that in college.
And very different than hockeywhen you run and climb and canoe
and bike for days in a row.

(06:53):
And, uh, I wasn't very good atit, but, you know, it, it gave
me this sort of idea that, youknow, it might be fun to do
something like that later.
And, um, and then Iaccidentally, um, were moving a
place with my, my girlfriend,uh, now wife.
Um, and behind our, ourapartment there was a few guys,
you know, they were carryingstuff like, what's going on?

(07:15):
They were carrying them into awater tower.
And that water tower wasconverted into the first
climbing swim in Finland.
And that was, uh, 90, 99, 98 Ithink.
So I got to very early into theindoor climbing and climbing
and, and bouldering and, andthen later, you know, big walls
and stuff like that.
So climbing kind of became my,my thing.

(07:35):
Uh, but yeah, long story short,I I, I was working the tech and
got in the Bay Area with, withNokia and, um, I was running a
small unit here for them in thegaming side.
And, and then, you know, Istarted, um, you know, three
healthcare companies after thatfirst 2000, uh, 10.
And now, you know, latest one isin, in nutrition called EL
Health.

Yeti Stereo Microphone (07:56):
Amazing.
From the backyard, climbing gymsin Finland to running tech
companies in San Francisco andalongside doing different
sports.
Sometimes I think of you as ahybrid athlete.
You practice your sports withpassion and you put equal zeal

(08:18):
into your career.
A little bit more also into yourcurrent lifestyle.
As you said, so yourself Ari,you surf, you climb, anything
that particularly stand out?
Maybe in the last couple ofyears has there been a focus to
your outdoor goals?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (08:40):
Yeah, I think it's interesting
because, you know, I, I waspretty regimen cemented, you
know, uh, hockey in Finland is alot like, um, you would play.
You know, football in the US orwhatever, like very serious
stuff, you know, where youtrain, you know, maybe twice a
day even.
You have very regimented way toprep for the season, to summer,
everything.
Um, a lot of quantification and,uh, when I've been, um, now, you

(09:04):
know, doing things more as a, asa hobby and for the fun, I
haven't been very regimented.
And it's funny because I'm a,I'm a quite regimented in the,
in the work.
Like I have a, you know, I'vebeen running companies for more
than 20 years.
And, um, and you have to beorganized.
You have to be focused andquantifying everything.
And I like to quantify my healthin many ways.

(09:25):
So I'm, I'm a very active inthat kind of biohacker, if you
like that word, or, you know,quantify self group.
Uh, been there for a long time,almost 20 years as well.
Uh, but for the sports, I, Idon't know.
I mean, I just tend to always bea bit, uh, sloppy.
Like, I mean, I don't have a,like a power meter in my bike, I
mean, on my pedals.

(09:45):
Um, I don't, I don't reallytrack.
I don't, I don't put down, I putdown my training quantities
roughly, but I don't really likeplan them too much ahead.
So I have a rough plan maybe,you know, for a week.
But, you know, often I dodifferent things.
Um, and often I do things alone,like, you know, cycling now
quite a bit, maybe most timeperspective climbing.

(10:07):
I usually do it alone because, Imean, it's just having in
another or group setting will bethen more difficult to move the
times if I need to move thetimes.
And I try to really balance itin a way that you're gonna have
your, um, life, uh, organized.
So if you look at my calendar.
I have, uh, like five colorstoday.
My, my, my calendar, forexample, and it's kind of funny

(10:29):
that, you know, you have, um,you know, there's, in a work you
might have like, you know,salesy stuff as a CEO.
You have, you know, fundraisingstuff, you have hiring stuff,
and then you have normal work.
So I have four colors for thoseand I try to balance them out in
a proper way.
Then I have my.
My, like a workout, my, my, mysport related things in a

(10:50):
certain color.
Then I have my family stuffoften in another color, and then
I have my investment stuff wedo, uh, on another color.
So that's kind of the, the, thekind of, and then I look at
often like a month and I look atis my life in balance?
Am I living the life in theright way?
And if not, then I can rebalanceit.
Uh, but it's funny because, youknow, in a way when I trained
and like, you know, climbing, I,I done times like when I had

(11:12):
like, uh, do certain reps andcertain things and I never
really, uh, stayed with it.
And even like, uh, cycling, Idid a lot of cycling over the,
over the covid talk about like,I don't know, 15,000, 20,000
miles.
And, um, but I didn't have likea, like a plan, like I need to
do hill rep reps.
And I've been getting a bitbetter at cycling, but I could
have probably become reallypretty good if I would've been

(11:35):
regimented in a way.
The train.
So I think your point is like,really the outdoor to me is the,
is the key piece almost likebeing able to be outside, uh, be
able to be, you know, doingthings you like, maybe listening
a, a book or at the same time orwhatnot.
That's, I mean, and it'sliterally like, for me, it's
like the vent for the, uh,stress and everything that, you

(11:56):
know, you, you gotta work prettyhard.
Um, you have, you know, smallchildren, so every time you go,
you know, it's like it has togive you something.
If the training takes energyaway from you, then I think
you're gonna be, you're gonnaburn the candle too, too, too
far.

Track 1 (12:11):
Got it.
I, I, I got, I, I got a coupleof things there.
One is, uh, you know, despiteyour, uh, somewhat modesty, I
think you are able to managemultiple fronts with, uh, alum.
But then also the outdoors meansa lot to you.
You know, you, you put your timeinto the training part, but, uh,
but like a lot of us outdoor,uh, obsessives, I think you get

(12:36):
a lot of energy from beingoutside.
Uh, yeah.
Any particular outdoor, uh,accomplishments in your sports
that you, uh, you get some pridein?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (12:47):
Well, I think, you know, the climbing
for me has always been the, um,it's been something that I was
kinda spending quite a bit timeoutside and, and, you know, not,
not necessarily trying to climbthe hardest, you know, crack or
the hardest, you know, route.
Um.
But, you know, to, to kind ofget better and, and
progressively.
And then of course climbing is avery multifaceted, you know, you

(13:08):
climb a semi, you climb a, acrack in, uh, in Yosemite it's
very different than climbing asport, climbing in Sana or in
Lumas, for example.
So other ones are more likeclimbing inside and, and you
know, the, the, the droughtclimbing in Yosemite has nothing
to do with climbing at the tomb.
You know, could, like, if you gofrom the, the tomb in the, into

(13:28):
the cran and you're not gonnaget more than a couple feet up
and then you are done becauseit's so difficult, the taming
technique and, and so forth.
And, um, and it's just a trickyone because, you know, you, you
cannot do it for a long time.
I, I've done it now for almost25 years.
I, I think, and a lot of thatoutside, I.
So you now have this feelingthat when you do more bouldering

(13:50):
now, or maybe do sport climbing,it'll be very difficult to go
back into the big walls now.
And I hope I can, you know,probably go back if my, my kids
wanna climb later, they're stilltoo young.
Um, but to climb with them.
But there's this kind of, thisscare aspect I think with
climbing that the older you get,I think the more easier you're
scared.
And we can talk about thesurfing, you know, the same

(14:12):
aspect there.
Um, but with climbing, I think,um, I, you know, being able to
climb, you know, good parts ofthe, you know, LCAP and, and you
know, some of those other oneshas been really pretty cool.
And, you know, most people don'tgo there because it's a lot of
work and, and very difficult,the whole hauling part.
And if you come up, you know,from down up, oh, sorry, up,

(14:32):
you're going up, down, and thenyou climb up.
That's also pretty brutalbecause, you know, you need to
kind of come down a couple ropesand then climb and you're a
little like, you know, half amile up on the wall.
It's pretty intimidating.
And, and of course the hiking,also hiking up there is like.
I mean, it's literally like fourhour hike.
People don't talk about thatwhen they do like these linkups,
but you know, you're gonna walka long way up and down when you,

(14:54):
when you go to the top of hotelcap, for example, or half dome
even, even worse.
Um, but you know, I mean, I hada really, you know, lucky thing
in a way that, and nothing hashappened to me except like
couple finger things, but, um,seven, eight years ago, my, my,
my good friend, you know, healmost died with me on, on the
wall in Yoan.
And that was kinda the momentwhen, um, you know, we had a, we

(15:15):
had our first, you know, babycoming.
And it felt like, you know, it'sthis worth it, you know, that,
you know, you could die.
And it was just a stupid, youknow, thing that we were, you
know, on an easy route, uh,climbing up.
And, uh, he picked the wrong,um, crack and then it ended and
then, you know, he slipped.
It was a bit wet and came down,you know, a couple pea came out
and then he came head first intoa lets, uh, next to me and I was

(15:37):
able to kinda save his head, buthe broke his back and pelvis and
was unc unconscious with there.
And we had to call Joar the,yosem, the rescue to climb up
there and they climbed literallyup like, I don't know, almost a
thousand feet.
And then we had to helicopterrescue him.
So it was like literally likesoothing on arrow to a tree and
getting the, you know, the, thething there and the helicopter

(15:58):
out.
And it was, uh, it was not fun.
And I mean, you had plenty oftime, you know, three hours time
to wait for the people to climbup to you.
When you have your partner is,you know, unconscious next to
you, and you were like, lucky Iwas roped in the, because you
don't always rope yourself on atree or anything on a big wall.
Uh, so if, if not, we might haveboth go down and that's just,

(16:20):
you know, moment that you think,like, is this worth it?
Uh, to do the big walls?
And we, you know, if you do itand you live there or you, you
can do it so many hours thatyou, you know, it cold.
But when you do it, like fromSan Francisco, you drive there
and you do it.
mean, you're not, you're not onyour game.
You're not a hundred percent.
And, uh, your rope technique isgood, but you know, you, you

(16:41):
don't, you're not like nativewith it because you don't do it
every day.
Uh, so that was the moment whenI decided that, look, I might
not be, I don't, I might notwanna do like a, like a
difficult, you know, long, bigwalls, uh, middle of nowhere.

Track 1 (16:54):
What, uh, route were you on, on?
Was it something on lcap?
I think that's what you said.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_1506 (16:59):
No, this was, uh, this was like
next, next to it, like, um, uh,it was like a, like a next to
royal Arts.
We were, we were doing like alinkup to go all the way up

Track 1 (17:08):
Uh

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15063 (17:09):
up there.
So the, you know, there's thisbig link up when you do royal
artists and then you can go tothe, um, uh, the

Track 1 (17:16):
oh.
I think it's famous, uh, slabroute.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (17:20):
yeah, yeah.
Top of that.
we were heading there and it,it's a really long day.
It's a 30, 30 plus pitch day, soyou have to kind of go pretty
quickly.

Track 1 (17:29):
You know, I, I will have to agree that, um, on, on a
couple of things that I point,I, I, uh, I gleaned from that,
uh, great story by the way.
Uh, one is that, uh, yes.
Core gym skills don't transferto a big wall.
Traditional climbing, you know,one has to, uh, put the time

(17:50):
into climbing big walls.
If one has to get good andcomfortable at climbing big
walls.
And being a vegan warrior, uh,is, uh, maybe not the best diet.
I've done that over the last 15years myself, and one has to be
relentless, uh, in that trainingto be able to be comfortable.
And then, yeah, secondly.

(18:11):
I, I, I mean, our goals shift.
You know, what might be my goalwhen I was 25 and I thought life
was, uh, limitless is differentthan my goals at 45.
And one has to be a bit, uh,more strategic about, uh,
risk-taking and goals and otherthings in life that one wants
to, uh, wants to accomplish.

(18:32):
One thing I have certainlynoticed, uh, in you, the time
that I've known you, is, uh, isyour ability to manage all these
different fronts.
You know, like you pointed out,you know, you are, uh, yeah.
Uh, active, active careerparents of two, uh, young kids,
and you do all these, um, youknow, time intensive, uh,

(18:53):
sports, any secrets, uh, wait.
I can see that you're highly,uh, highly calendared.
You color code your calendar.
I, I, I, I, I live on mycalendar, but I don't color code
it maybe to the degree you do,but then I also notice something
interesting Ari.
Uh.
Last year we went on a long, uh,you know, long by my standards,

(19:14):
uh, long bicycle, uh, gravelride up in Marin.
It was fun.
I actually have been biking alot more, uh, recently, so maybe
I'll do a slightly better, uh,

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15063 (19:23):
To go up again.

Track 1 (19:24):
Yes, yes.
I'm, I'm, sign me up.
Uh, one thing I noticed, whichwas the whole time, um, we were
out there, it was a long day,morning to afternoon, and I felt
you were quite present in thebike ride.
Like I did not notice you openyour phone and check for
messages and as somebody who is,you know, running a, a growing

(19:47):
company and probably has manythings that they can attend to,
I felt you were very present thewhole day.
And, uh, uh.
Yeah, just wondering, uh, uh, Imean, any, uh, any tips you
might wanna share on how you areable to, uh, be so present and,
uh, be in the moment ofwhichever activity?

(20:09):
Because, and I'm sure, I'm surethat when you're actually
working, you're also fullypresent and are putting your
time into, uh, what you're doingat that time.
So any things that the rest ofus can, uh, can learn from.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15063 (20:21):
I, that's a good observation.
I mean, I, I think for me, I.
Um, it, it maybe comes after at,you know, the fourth time you
read Les Power of Now, and youmaybe you finally the point of
it.
And, and, uh, but yeah, I, I tryto be, and I think I'm, I'm
quite good at overall to befocused on things like when I

(20:43):
work, I, I don't need like a twohour ramp up to be productive.
I, I can be quite quick at it.
And, um, and then when I dodifferent things, like it's my
time, then I don't wanna, youknow, give the time away because
there's always so many peoplewho try to take your time from
you, and that's the only thingyou really have.
That's the only asset that'syours.

(21:05):
And it's so easy.
I think Calendly is a, a verydifficult, uh, beast.
Uh, if people use Calendly in away to do pick time for

Track 1 (21:14):
mm-Hmm

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024 (21:15):
because, you then you don't have control.
Like, I mean, I.
I think the, one of the keypieces is that, you know, I have
done that has been reallyhelpful that I think I, I've
been telling many people to doand test and try and it's this
concept that, you know, six,seven years ago I decided to
make Wednesdays my days.
And, um, I paid a blockedWednesday off.

(21:36):
And, um, no, there's no meetingsever on Wednesdays.
And, uh, I haven't had like,really any meetings on
Wednesdays for five years.
And, uh, before the kids weresmall, I was taking them on
hikes and stuff.
It was a morning with, you know,my son first, and then with my
daughter every Wednesday forlike three, four hours and now

(21:56):
they're in school.
So it became my time.
And now I, in Wednesday morningsI go surf.
I go, you know, spike ride orboth even.
And, and then I work theafternoon maybe in a coffee or
my office in downtown.
Or very building, or then I godo something else.
So that Wednesday has really,because it breaks the week
really nicely, and you know,like Tuesday and Monday kind of

(22:17):
crap at times.
Like, I mean, I literally had,like yesterday or or Tuesday I
had, uh, 13 meetings and that'slike unbelievably rough because
you're back to back all the

Track 1 (22:28):
Wow.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_150 (22:29):
And, um, and, and, and today, I mean,
I mean, I had a funny day.
I mean, I started today at fourin the morning.
I, I had to do a couple things.
I mean, we have a, a crisisgoing on in a way.
Then I'm doing an interview withTV on seven in the morning.
Then I did.
Um, eight 30 to 11 I was doing,uh, uh, interviews with PIC
Media, like was the, you know,was Tunnel, New York Times and

(22:50):
others.
Uh, so we are all, all newproducts.
I mean, that was the morning.
So sometimes, you know, you havethese crazy days, um, but you
know, you know that you havesomething booked in a calendar
like, you know, go for a bikeride in the morning or go for
something.
You, you just not do it.
And I think if you really can,you know, block that time and
then you need to of course makeyour loved ones to understand

(23:11):
that you need that time.
And, you know, we've beentogether with my wife like, you
know, 25 plus years.
So I mean, I think we know eachother pretty well and I need
that time and, and sometimes itbecomes like a selfish thing
that, you know, you feel that,can I take that time because you
know, it's my time, but you justneed to make, you know, it's not
selfishness'cause it's aboutyour long term, you know,

(23:32):
sustainability.
And, um, but also then focusingon the, on like, because if you
are an entrepreneur and youknow, I now be building
companies for a long time.
It sucks.
I mean, as a life always,because, you know, you, you,
need to give something away.
You, you can't work eight hoursa you know, a day.
If you are building companies,sometimes you have to work a lot

(23:52):
more.
So something has to go and, youknow, it's either you give, you
know, away your family or yourfriends or your hobbies or all
of them.
And the people who give all ofthem away, a hundred percent of
them burnout.
um, you know, I've done this nowall 20 years and, and it's been
grinding a lot, but, you know,only way to survive the game is

(24:14):
to, you know, find a way that isthe fit for you.
And for me, it is to fit that.
You know, I, I spend, you know,maybe 12 hours a week, uh,
trading and outside And, andthat keeps me sane.
And, and that value is insane.
And I mean, I think my investorsare happy campers that, you
know, I take one day, half a dayoff every week because, you

(24:35):
know, that gives me, you know,doing better work.

Track 1 (24:39):
Protecting one's time and time is indeed.
Uh.
One's, uh, biggest asset as, uh,some wine, some vice person said
one day.
And, uh, in this day of, uh,devices being always on my, my
time outside, uh, I think justlike yours, uh, is, is ever the
more precious.

(25:00):
And, uh, and I think, yeah, Ithink I appreciate being outside
also, because usually my devicesare not on me or, uh, or they're
off me.
And maybe that's one reason.
Uh, so far I have, uh, you know,refused to, uh, get an Apple
watch and I feel next time I'min a, in a surf line up and

(25:20):
somebody's, uh, phone goes off,you know, I'm, I'm gonna blow my
lid

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_1506 (25:26):
But funny because, you know,

Track 1 (25:27):
I wanna hear is,

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_1506 (25:29):
and you know this, I mean,

Track 1 (25:30):
last thing I wanna hear is like, when I'm out there in
the water, hearing somebody'sphone ring and somebody
answering their, uh, their, uh,I don't know, their DoorDash
driver.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_1506 (25:42):
But you know, I I, I'm, I'm very
wired, like, you know, and it'spart of my, my myself at the
moment, um, to be kind ofunderstand what you can do with
the tech related to your health.
And I do have a Apple watch whenI, when I surf and, you know,
it's more like, you know, mybody will be found at least if I
have that with me.
So that's the good news, right?
Um, the sharks might eat, youknow, the, the rest of the body,

(26:05):
but maybe they'll leave the handso somebody can find my, my
body.
Um, but there's the benefit of,um, I think to have the, the
data collection ambientlybecause, you know, it can give
you kind of this sort of agamification aspect if you wanna
be more, you know, tracking or,because the fact is, like if
you, if you track things andyou, you train properly, the

(26:25):
outcomes are unbelievable.
Like, maybe not in likeclimbing, but if you do
endurance, uh, and cycling is soeasy, you get this wt, you know,
you get the.
You know, the trainer in a, in aCaras or your office, and then
you do the regimented, you know,things you're gonna get really
quickly, much faster.
Maybe not, you know, likereally, really fast.
But it, it, the impact I did fora moment and the impact is like,

(26:49):
you know, you add like 40 vatsof power, uh, fairly quickly.
And that was surprising to mebecause it, it's just so well
known how to train somebody tobe a better cyclist.
And cycling is very simple.
like one thing you don't need tolearn a huge technique, uh, like
you have to, even running ismaybe more complicated.
You, you need to run right.

(27:10):
And you need to learn to be, butI think the, the one aspect of
this time management andeverything is, you know, yes.
I mean the balance is reallylike you need to.
Exercise.
I mean, that, that can be areally, and it's a very powerful
thing.
I mean, muscle is reallypowerful vehicle to stay
healthy.
Having muscle at the older ageis a really critical thing to be

(27:31):
able to be mobile when you goto, you know, 70, 80 years old.
But what I think about a lot,and I spend a lot, ton of time
is sleep.
And to me, sleep is like areally, like, I mean, is as
important or if not moreimportant to focus on, you know,
having the recovery.
Because if you do activities youneed to also recover.

(27:51):
And then of course food is a keypiece of that.
But people always ask me like,what is the most important, how
many days can you go withoutsleep?

Track 1 (28:02):
sure.
No, I, um, I've read some, uh,some of the stuff on Quantified
Health.
I'm, I'm not quite a, a convertyet.
I'm, um, almost a Luddite, so tospeak, with, uh, my reluctance
to, uh, adopt.
But I think I'm, I'm slowly, uh,coming, uh, uh, slowly getting,
uh, uh, transformed.

(28:24):
I think I might start it, uh,wearing one of these devices
myself.
But this is excellent segue,Ari, because, uh, um, I think
one, one thing that I noticeabout you is, uh.
Uh, I think you, you know, you,you, you, you dog food, you know
your own, uh, own products, Ithink, and also, uh, uh,

(28:44):
services that you, uh, encourageothers to develop.
Um, I'm curious, uh, just thespecific thing around, uh, uh,
quantified information about,uh, performance, about diet,
about sleep, and then alsoabout, uh, correlating that with

(29:05):
your, uh, own sportsperformance.
Uh, you already hinted at it,but could you maybe elaborate a
bit more on, uh, what specificimprovements have you, uh, have
you noticed?
And, uh, if you have any, um,sort of immediate takeaways
that, um, benefit from

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (29:28):
Yeah, I think, um, I think for me,
the, like I said, the sleep is,um, is a very key piece of this.
So I was pointing out, you can,you can stay awake for three or
four days and then you die threeor four days without sleep,
you're gonna die or go, gocrazy.

(29:49):
You can stay without food for 30days, you're not gonna feel
great, but if you get watersalt, you're gonna be 30 days,
you're not gonna die.
And if you don't get water, ofcourse you're not gonna, you're
gonna die quickly.
I.
Many people live their life to ahundred and never exercise.
So in a way, like what is thebalance act of, you know, these
things?
So the sleep is a really keyand, um, sleep has this impact

(30:13):
of, you know, helping us torecover.
So I really think that, youknow, a lot of people who think
about this, um, from theperspective, what to do for
sleep, you can do a lot.
Um, and for me it's always beenlike if you go sleep earlier,
you will be.
slept and it's that simple.

(30:34):
So Apple, um, I have a couplefriends in Apple who were
working on the sleep side andthey did this big study like
Apple style big study, and theyfound out that, you know, only
thing that is currently to helppeople sleep better is to go
sleep earlier between 10 and 11.
Nothing else really impactedthat much, so that's interesting

(30:55):
point.
And then of course when yousleep, you know, you should be
sleeping in a, you know, in adark environment that you know
is rather cool.
And, you know, people are buyingnow like eight sleep mattress
that are cooling down that canhelp, um, you know, having a
good mattress, having a goodpillow.
I do earplugs.
I've been using them for a longtime and it's hard for me to now

(31:16):
sleep without earplugs, but Isleep like 5% better with
earplugs.
It's pretty interesting, butthat's a fact.
Um, and I can quant, I havequantified my sleep for like, I
don't know, 10 years.
I was lucky to invest in acompany called Aura, uh, early
on.
And, you know, I've been usingthe Ring for, for very beginning
then some people do like, youknow, food, sleep
supplementation.

(31:37):
But my key always has been thatif you eat late before you go
sleep, you're not gonna sleep sowell.
So I don't never eat after 7:00PM Um, alcohol of course is a
killer.
I, I stopped drinkingcompletely, um, almost a year
ago now, and I hadn't, you know,drunk a lot.
But, you know, it's just gonnahappen.
Uh, and um, it's easy now orinteresting when you don't drink

(31:57):
that you, when you go to partiesor whatever, you can go with a
car if you go.
And funny thing is that, youknow, I went to some cocktails
in an event here a few weeks agoand then I went to climb after
the cocktails.
I never done it before because Ialways had like a one beer.
I don't wanna go train after onebeer.
It's like a mental thing.
Uh, so that was interesting.
And um, and then I think, youknow, these ideas that people

(32:17):
talk about a lot, like, uh, hotsauna.
Before sleep.
That's maybe a bit impractical.
I mean, I have a so in thebackyard, but you know, for most
people it's kind of not, noteasy to do, but having a hot
sour before you go to sleep,that clearly helps.
Uh, I mean, stretching stuff,all these things like, you know,
massage the blue lights, thoseare really good ones.

(32:38):
And then I think one thing that,you know, I, I realized when
people are stressed out andsometimes you have a hard time
falling asleep, there's thisidea that, you know, I, I
learned, I dunno, many years agoalready, it's called deep sigh.
Uh, so what you do, youbasically pre in all the way,
and done, you do like a one moredeep sigh and you do that few

(33:00):
times and it really relaxes yourbody in a way that you fall
asleep.
And, and then I think from bigone for me has always been that
climbing to me is like a problemsolving bouldering, especially.
And every night I try to solve aboulder problem in my head, and
that's how I go sleep.
Then next day you like can go dothat problem.
There's a really interesting,like ment and that's very much

(33:22):
like meditation.
Um, if you think about what it,what it does to you.
Uh, but those are kinda some ofthe things on sleep that I've
been doing for a long time.
And I have a pretty dialedprocess.
And I, I do sleep usually reallywell and I try to go sleep at
like before 11 if I can.
Uh, if I go at midnight, likeyesterday I went midnight and
woke at four in the morning.

(33:42):
Like not, not optimal.
I feel pretty, pretty slowtoday.
Um, but I think there's so muchpeople could kind of, you know,
think about sleep and, and getimmediate performance on the
other hand, on the other sideAnd then the nutritionist of
course that the other piecethat, you know, I'm, I'm very
deep now because, you know, I'mbuilding a company in this space
and I've been talking to a tonof people who, you know, one of

(34:06):
our, our advisors who we have atEllo.
Um, Danielly is a, a coachs forWarriors and, uh, uh, kings in
basketball, also for theCanadian Olympic team and couple
of the, um, the pro cyclingteams into France.
And, and see it's really goodwhen you talk about nutrition
and, you know, what can you do?

(34:27):
And I think we are learning alot about like, like their super
performance.
Like, like we have now, thetriathletes in Norway, they're
trying to break the seven hourmark in triathlon.
That's unbelievable speed.
Think about like seven hours forlike marathon and, you know, 180
k bike and then, you know, swim.
You have to be fast.

Track 1 (34:46):
Not just a, triathlon, like an Iron Man, right.
This is a full, this is the fullMonty we are talking about.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_150 (34:52):
This is full, full Ironman.
Yeah.

Track 1 (34:55):
that is, uh,

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_ (34:57):
because it's like the fueling for that
unbelievable.
How can you even get enough, youknow, fuel in and, but they
basically realized that, youknow, they, they are so dialed
now that these guys can go like.
They go almost full speed, sevenhours.
Like, it, it's pretty, and, andhow do we can learn from those
things?
And, and for me, I mean, cyclinghas been really cool because I

(35:20):
mean, I, I usually did like a,you know, an hour or two hour
thing and now you try to dothese bigger things and, and,
and last year I was trying to dothis big bike ride that, uh, I
failed my, my knee, kneebuckled.
But you know, I was trying to do500 k bike ride and uh, like 500
kilometers in 36 hours and, andclimb 10 kilometers uphill.

(35:42):
So literally like all the hillsin the Bay area around a big
loop.
And I got to almost 300 KIthink, before my knee, knee
buckled.
And I'd never done that longclimbing in a, in a one go.
Um, but that was the fueling,like you had to think like, what
are you gonna eat?
How are you gonna fuel?
Because if you have no fuel,you're gonna stop.
There's no way.

(36:02):
Um, so that, that was kind ofgeeky and interesting to me to,
to learn.
And I was using our coats inEllo and our give me guidance
how to do it.
And I don't think I could havedone half of it, uh, without,
uh, and I was feeling great whenI had to end because my knee was
just hurting too badly.
Uh, I'll go back doing it againand trying it, but, you know,
uh, those are kind of funthings.

(36:23):
Like, can you do something 30hours in a row without sleep?

Track 1 (36:27):
Sure.
No, those are, uh, some reallyimpressive, uh, goals, uh, re
slash uh, slash accomplishments.
Uh, you know, even doing, uh,uh, what is 60% of, uh, uh, uh,
you know, an absolutely, uh, youknow, massive bike ride is, uh,
still something to be very proudof.

(36:48):
And yeah, it sounds like you,you do on a, on a regular basis,
uh, or maybe on a, on acontinuing basis, uh, take
advantage of, uh, these tools,uh, advancements, uh, at, uh, at
your disposal.
And I think many of those areavailable to the everyday
athlete as well.
Can you, uh, speak a little bitalso to.

(37:11):
To diet, sleep, a hugecomponent.
Uh, second component I think youspoke about is, uh, being able
to measure and track and thencalibrate and share.
And I think the third, uh,perhaps is food.
And, uh, I've heard you say thissomewhere that, uh, you know,
food, uh, is, is medicine, uh,would love for you to, uh,

(37:35):
unpack that.
Uh, and then also again relatethat particularly to, uh, to us,
uh, you know, outdoor CE folkswho already tend to eat a little
bit healthier than the averageperson.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (37:49):
Yeah, so food is Medicine is, is a
tagline for my, my company.
And it, it's also a tagline for,um, you know, the old, um, old
thinker and a doctor, uh,hypocrite who lived, you know,
maybe two and 2000 years So hemight have said that, you know,
food is time medicine.
We don't, we didn't have aTwitter at the time, so we
don't, we can't really go makesure he did it, but, you know,

(38:11):
let's give him that and, um.
So I, I think food isinteresting today because we
have a massive problem today inour society.
So 80% of people today areoverweight.
And not only that, but we havealmost half the people in the US
who are obese.
Obese means like, you know, BMIis, you know, 29 30.
And, And, that is causing now alot of, you know, side effects.

(38:36):
Like, you know, in Covid we hadmore people dying in the US than
anywhere else.
Um, we have, uh, you know,Repart, you know, rate of, uh,
chronic conditions like type twodiabetes, heart disease, and,
and others.
Uh, cancer, you know, peopleoften now, uh, link, uh,
Alzheimer's and dementia intothe same grouping.

(38:57):
They call it type threediabetes.
and all of these things arecreeping up.
Nothing is like plateauing goingdown.
Um, there's this crazy craftthat, you know, I use when, when
I talk to investors and media,our life expectance in the US
has cropped three years in thelast five years.
So we lost three years in thelast five years, first time ever

(39:20):
since the second and the firstworld war

Track 1 (39:24):
And this is country in the world.
We are, uh, speaking off.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_1506 (39:30):
Not only that, but we spend double
or more in healthcare per personthan any other country.
So it's a very interesting craftand I mean, it always gets
people to talk because you cansee every other country is going
creeping up and we are nowdropping down like, what the
hell?
And then the other craft that I,I talk a lot about is that you
have, think about what is, whatmakes a healthcare system good.
You have life expectancy andcost.

(39:52):
I.

Track 1 (39:53):
Mm-Hmm.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15063 (39:54):
US is like on the other page, I had
to add like another page in thecraft to get us price because
we're so far apart and we arenot even, we are top 60 today in
life expectancy 60, not likesix.
And we are now, I think we are10 years lower for men than
Japan.
If you take the US men, I mean,we live 10 years less, think

(40:15):
about 10 years, a long time.
I mean, that's 13% of your life,you know, and they, they don't
average live that much longer.
And now we have presidents whoare kind of, should be dead
already in, in the US averages.
It's kinda interesting.
Um, but the point is that, youknow, these are all real
problems and they are, the mainCPR today is the food we eat.

(40:36):
We have.
Food that is basically, youknow, this concoction created
for us that is highly processed,um, very, you know, smartly
tricking our brain with the, youknow, fat and salt and acid and,
you know, sugar.
And we add sugar and everythingwith sugar is like, you know, as
addictive as heroin almost forrat list.

(40:58):
So we have this problem that,you know, we eat this food and
it, it's good.
I mean, we like it, it tastesgood, but it makes us unhealthy
and we are feeding it to kidsalready, like from five up in
school.
So that is the problem that, youknow, even if you're eating kind
of healthy, um, there's stillstuff creeping in your diet that
you know is, is pretty bad.
So the idea is like, how do we,how do we get out of this mess?

(41:21):
How do we get out of this cycle?
And, uh, I mean, only way reallyis to eat whole foods.
Not, not buy from whole Foods,but eat this real food.
Make your food from the realstuff, not, not from, you know,
the stuff that you know isalready made by somebody else.
And, and then often when you eatout restaurant food, we often

(41:41):
end up eating in the cities, youknow, many times a week out.
And you kind of never know whatyou're eating.
I think we need better work onlike identifying the good foods.
Like you can go to a salad bar,some, you know, big name salad
base and they have a prettyunhealthy salad, um, that you
can do much better at home, forexample.
And of course the local farmsand everything.

(42:02):
So for me it's, it's been reallythis epiphany, you know, since
my, my wife had a, had a healthissue 20 years ago.
She had a thyroid tumor that wastaken out and it led into a lot
of this autoimmune.
Hormonal imbalances.
And, and we spent about a decadeof trying to find a healing
factor for her.
We used in know, western easternmedicine and food in there

(42:25):
helped a lot, uh, to lower theinflammation in the body and
heal the body, let the body healitself and at the same time, and
we kinda went to this low carbtype of diet with very little
wheat or no wheat, no littlemeat.
Now we do eat meat, but youknow, we had no meat.
And then no, no extra carbs orsugar at all.
And that diet was what weadopted.

(42:47):
It's 15 years ago.
So while ago, and it really hashelped us to, you know, perform
at a better level mentally andphysically.
And that helps me, I think, torecover.
So how I eat normally is mybreakfast is basically a
protein, uh, sake with, youknow, like blueberries and
avocado and, and maybe yogurtor, and of course I use the LA

(43:07):
protein block there, uh, or thenI can do like a, you know,
omelet with, uh, with spinachand, and maybe some stuff like
that.
And that's a low no carb, nolow, low glycemic breakfast.
My, my glucose is not spiking atall.
And I, if I don't train, then Imight not do it at all.
And eat lunch.
lunch.
is always a salad, always.

(43:29):
And, uh, and then dinner.
I don't care.
I mean, dinner is whatever thekids wanna have or whatever is
fun or whatever.
You got the new place, eatoutside or whatever.
But if you eat the, thebreakfast and the lunch, right?
And then you do the, you know,the dinner as you do, um, and
then you don't eat after 7:00 PMand you don't drink alcohol.
I mean, that's a pretty good,you know, way to do it.
And you don't need to be like apurist at all.

(43:50):
And then of course, when youtrain, I try to, you know, I
mean, if, if you do bike rides,you have to gonna have some, you
know, liquid energy with you.
Like I, I don't like a littlemore tens and stuff like that.
Try to be kind of eating realfood rather than, you know,
these, you know, capsules ortablets or, uh, cells.
And, and then of course,recovery perspective.
I always try to get proteinafter, like a harder workout

(44:12):
recovery.
And that has worked pretty well.
That was something new I startedto do when we got the LOR
protein out.
Um, I've been, uh, I've beenpretty, you know, fundamental
every time I take protein torecover and it, it feels that
I'm, I'm recovering well and I'mgaining more muscle.
That's a bit of a problem forclimbing because you gain weight
and then of course your bowelweight raise gets more
difficult.

Kush (44:35):
Um, alright, uh, uh, super interesting, uh, about, uh,
again, um, the attention we needto pay to a diet.
Some things I, I want to, um,you know, lean in on one is you
said no booze right now.
I also hear many people say, forexample, that moderation is, is

(44:56):
key in life balance moderation.
So for, for example, somebodylike me, you know, I'm not, um,
I'm not a teetotaler.
I drink, uh, you know, I wouldsay an average of three beers a
week.
That's my usual output.
And sometimes I drink a beerwhen I, you know, go salsa
dancing and I feel like I burnthat out really quickly.

(45:20):
Um, so I think what you spoke ofis, you know, giving up alcohol
completely even again for, uh,for eclectic types.
The second I heard also thingslike, uh, eliminating carbs or
going to low carbs.
So what I wanna ask, and I, youknow, this is such a departure
from I think my, uh, my youth,you know, spent at the crack,

(45:42):
uh, eating endless, uh, peanutbutter, uh, jelly sandwiches,
which I thought back in the daygave me fuel, which is, which
is, which is fine then, but Iknow that that can be improved
on.
So I'm just trying to understandlike, what is the, what is the,
is the right, let's saypractical, uh, uh, approach for,
for most of us who maybe are notwilling to give up the

(46:05):
occasional beer, who do want tohave that bagel once in a while
for breakfast and who are notalways able to, you know,
prepare their, uh, you know,their meals at home.
Again, it's ideal, butsometimes.
We are not able to do that, andwe have to go out and eat, you
know, with coworkers or whatnotat lunch.
So any, any middle path alsothat you can, uh, you can

(46:28):
advocate.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (46:30):
Yeah, I don't think, you know, going
off the script at times itdoesn't really matter.
I, I think the alcohol has alittle impact if you, if you
don't go like a bender or youdon't have like a bottle of wine
because it's, I mean, we open abottle of wine often and, you
know, my wife has a wine glass,I have two glasses and that has
a big impact in my sleep.
And I'm, I kinda like wine.
I mean, I was drinking a lot ofwine for many years and I mean,

(46:53):
it became a bit of like a hobby,but when you kind of stop it, to
me it was easier to kind of justsay no.
Like I said, it's kind of coolto go to event when you don't
need to drink or you, you don'tdrink.
So it's like easier thing.
And I, I kinda like that.
Maybe I reverse myself in a fewyears, but you know, now it
feels kinda kind of funny to doit that way.
Um, and you know, being fromFinland where people expect

(47:14):
that, you know, people drink alot and it's like a thing in a
way, um, which is kind of not,hasn't been my thing, but, you
know, people have thatassociation to, to the, to the
country in a way.
Um, and, but I mean, overall Ithink, you know, the but be to
be kind of smart about it, Ithink that's key because I was
a, I was a vegetarian for a longtime, almost decade.

(47:34):
And, and then I was a vegan forsome time and it was super easy
when I was, you know, I wasrunning a bigger company and you
were very busy.
Like you, you literally havelike other people owning you.
Like you go from like a car to acar, to a plane, to a car.
And you, you don't know whereyou are.
And then you get to meeting withsome people and then you go to
another meeting and you know,somebody tells you what to say

(47:55):
and then they do yourpresentation.
So that was my life for a coupleyears.
And, and then I was like, well,I need to, it's tough, like I
have no decisions to be made andI don't wanna make like, silly
stuff.
So I, I was eating restaurantlike twice a day, traveling a
lot.
So I, I went and, um, basically,you know, started, uh, to eat
vegan food because they only hadlike two options in menu and it

(48:16):
gave my life easier.
At least.
The, the vegan options arepretty, usually pretty, okay.
They're not bad, so you end upeating like something very
simple and that kept me healthy.
And you know, some of the peoplein the same team, they gained
like, you know, 20 pounds, 30pounds.
We couldn't really move.
Like you're little, like just,you know, you've been handled
around and I don't know, that'snot the life I, I wish for

(48:38):
myself, but that's kinda like, Ithink like a rock stars probably
have that life.
It kind of sucks.
Um, so I think, you know, it'sjust a, this sort of a, being
smart about it and you can eatout in so many different ways.
Um, you can have the burrito,you can make the burrito
healthy.
You can go to Chipotle and greatfood, or you can do Chipotle and
have like, crap that is reallybad for you.
Um, but I think, you know, likefor the, kind of the, the

(49:01):
training aspect of this that,you know, how do you, when do
you train also is I think,important here because, you
know, some people train atnight, of course, then sleep
might be more difficult.
They might have time.
Some people train very early inthe morning.
I'm a, I'm a bit skeptical aboutthe idea that, you know, new
Yorkers do that.
They wake up four in the morningto run.

(49:22):
think that's a good idea.

Kush (49:24):
Uh, hey, coming from the man who, uh, woke up at, uh,
4:00 AM uh,

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_150 (49:30):
That was a rare instance.
I had to do it.
I had this crazy thing going on.
I I never normally do that.
I wake up at six in the morning.

Kush (49:37):
you know, this is a funny, uh, funny segue.
Uh, I was recently in, um, I.
In Delhi, in India.
I was there for a couple ofmonths, uh, time with family and
doing some other things.
And, uh, if you know anythingabout India, traffic, uh, in
India is absolutely nuts.
Like if you think, uh, cyclingin, uh, in big cities in the US
is dangerous, you know, youhave, yeah, it's, you've nothing

(49:58):
on, uh, cycling in, uh, in, in,uh, in bustling, uh, Delhi or,
uh, Mumbai, uh, daytime.
So, uh, I met up with a coupleof friends and they have turned
into Avid, uh, bicyclist and Ican only marvel at their, uh, at
their motivation where, uh, theywake up at three and they're on

(50:20):
the road at 4:00 AM which isbefore apparently this window,
before the school buses and thetrucks start flying and they,
uh, bike in numbers when theycan.
And their bicycles are, areoften completely lit up.
So I'm talking about like, youknow, looking at almost like a
Christmas tree, you know, on theroad because, because it's

(50:41):
basically objective hazards allaround you.
So, so that might be oneexception to that rule of like,
uh, being a bit bit, um, extremewith your waking up and
exercising, because maybe insome places the only time you
can be safe and cycling is maybebefore, uh, is several hours
before the sun comes up.
Uh, another thing that you, uh,you spoke of, uh, Ari, is uh,

(51:03):
uh, you know, uh, really, reallygreat to hear that, um, that
your wife Anu was able to combatand get ahead of our, uh,
autoimmune, uh, issues.
And, uh, and knock on wood, nowthat she's healthy again and
looks like you, uh, you know,you really put, uh, the effort

(51:25):
and time into diagnosing andtreating and looks like food was
a major, uh, I'm, I'm, wonderingif you have, uh.
Uh, any more, uh, insights intohow, you know, foods can also
help us, uh, combat slow down oreven reverse like other kinds of
chronic, uh, things.

(51:45):
So it's just case in point.
I, I, was recently diagnosedwith, um, bad osteoarthritis in
my left shoulder.
It really sucks, which meansthat overhead sports, you know,
surfing, climbing, et cetera,are off limits for me for the
time being.
And I've also been looking hardat, uh, how to, how to cure, uh,

(52:07):
outside of, you know, surgicaloptions.
So any information or advice youmight have on people who are
struggling with like, uh, thesekind of limiting conditions as
athletes as we get older.
Do you think the, like food anda diet has the power to not
just, let's say slow down agingand improve performance, but
also to maybe, uh, reverse and,uh, and cure, uh, these

(52:29):
debilities.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_150638 (52:32):
I think that brings to the, take a
step back, previous, it takes tothe point that, um, you have a,
a world where more and morepeople are now looking at life
and, and things from theperspective of, uh, why do I do
this?
Am I doing this to be faster?
Am I doing this to be better?

(52:52):
Or am I doing this to livelonger, better life?
We have a huge strength now.
Uh, more and more people arelooking at this whole idea of
exercise and activity and, youknow, outdoor to do it in a way
that it, it will live, it willgive them more good years in
their life.
And that's a very new way ofthinking about it.
And it's a very healthy, becauseI think we both know that, you

(53:14):
know, if you're gonna go all in.
On anything like, you know, my,my 500 uh, K bike ride will
likely lower my life expectanceand not increase it.
So if you go too far, like manymen who bike, they go and they
start doing like way too muchand they're just burned out of
that.
So I, I think it's a very goodidea.

(53:35):
Like think about like, what areyou doing, why you do it, and
because you can probably turnout a practice that actually
will give you more energy alwaysand give you more years at the
back of the envelope.
Because we, I'm, I'm afraid of,you know, getting hurt myself.
Like I really, I like the stuff.
I like going surfing every week.

(53:56):
I like cycling.
I, I love climbing.
I mean, I hate when I'm sick.
Like today I'm a little bit, youknow, down and I was, I was
traveling a lot over the, overthe new year.
So I got, I mean, I, I don'tknow, I got every possible buck
I get and I getting a fever, butyou know, the whole family was
sick and now I'm a little bit,you know, feeling as well.
But the point about the food.
It's really, really interesting,this foodist medicine that, you

(54:18):
know, we are in the middle ofElla.
Uh, there's so much stuffhappening now that we're
learning, like for example, thekind of the an anti-inflammatory
diet.
It really works like, you know,the type of diet we used at my
household is now being used fora LS to reverse it.
It's now been used for, youknow, mental health, like, um,

(54:41):
different diseases like bipolardisease to don it down.
You know, fasting is being usedfor cancer treatment to make
your cells more alert when youget chemotherapy or RA radiation
therapy.
Those are all things that arenow happening in thousands of
people.
So it's really interesting.
And I think the big thing thatI, I, I really am excited about

(55:03):
is the, is the Virta Health, uh,which is a company using keto
diet to reverse type twodiabetes.
I think they have over 50,000people that they have reversed
now with diet

Kush (55:16):
Wow.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024 (55:17):
diabetes five years ago was irreversible
condition and now they havereversed it with keto diet.
I mean, that's unbelievable innumbers of 50 plus thousand and
many doctors are using it nowbecause they don't tend to be
the most healthy people often.
And that idea that, you know, wecan control inflammation in a

(55:37):
body.
And that inflammation is causinga lot of the issues, like, you
know, you know, even has animpact likely, uh, in your case,
partially because if you haveinflammation, it'll gonna eat to
the bones, it'll cause, youknow, this fragility.
And then of course, you know,the nutrition overall.
Like at Ello we a lot of testingto people like, you know, blood
testing and, you know, otherthings.

(55:58):
Um, we take a lot of the datafrom the wearable devices.
Uh, we have done some, you know,sampling and DNA testing and so
forth, but, you know, to learnfrom people.
Uh, and we have some set ofpeople, we've done like a really
thorough, like 200 biomarkers tosee what they are, who they are,
and we always find somethingsurprising.
And I think I would recommendeverybody when they turn 40 or

(56:19):
something to go and, you know,do one of these complete tests.
I mean, at LO today we do 15biomarkers.
Nice.
But there are, you know, labsyou can do way more.
Uh, one is called function.
Um, they are a new company thatthey have a wait list, but they
do like a really, uh, good panelfor 500 bucks.
And I did it recently and Ididn't really find anything new.

(56:41):
But, um, I had a couple friendswho did it and they were like,
wow.
I mean, I learned a lot.
I have done not tracking fordecade already.
But the point is that you canbasically find out things that
are impactful.
And there are certain thingslike A or p, uh, lp, small, A,
those are some of the biomarkersthat are really good indicators
like heart disease.
And if you have a high number,you know, you need to do

(57:02):
something.
And we need those wake up calls.
'cause you, you might lookhealthy, you might feel okay,
but you might have someunderlining issues that you
don't know.
And some people have often like,you know, um, big issues with
like the iron, with the vitaminD, uh, vitamin B.
Those are simple things and you,you fix them and you get more
energy.
You, you get better, you know,balance in your, in your body,

(57:25):
uh, because our diet is just sohard to do, right?
Because a lot of the food is sodepleted today.
You know, you know, 20 yearsago, 30 years ago, you bought a
potato.
It's like a small potato nowit's like a head size.
Of course there's lessnutrients, you know, if you make
them that big.

Kush (57:41):
Yeah.
Uh, uh, you know, ex excellentpoints about, uh, really, uh,
thinking about, uh, what.
Constitutes a diet.
And then also reallyunderstanding, you know, one's
own, uh, physiology.
And I think getting that, uh,full blood panel, I think is a,
is an excellent idea to evenunderstand, you know, what RV
dealing with.
I want to learn, help us learn alittle bit more about this

(58:06):
fascinating company that you'vebuilt, Ari at Ello.
But just before that I do wantto ask you one other question,
which is connected to Ello,which is, uh.
Recently, you know, youunveiled, uh, some really
interesting collaborations.
The ones that I know about.
I know you're partnered with,uh, Dean Kanas, who's, uh, you

(58:26):
know, a celebrated ultra runner,uh, and Tommy Caldwell, who we
spoke about, uh, just a fewminutes ago.
And, uh, and they could beothers as well.
And, you know, these areinspiring athletes, uh, for, for
all of us.
And what I'm wondering is, uh,any information, any insights
that you are gleaning fromthese, uh, extraordinary, uh,

(58:48):
performers that, uh, the massescan learn from?
Are they, are there like, uh,uh, some quick wins?
You know, when you work withthem and you find that these
guys are, uh, able to do whatthey do that the rest of us can
like learn and apply?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (59:05):
Yeah, good question.
And, uh, I started, uh, torecord, uh, like video podcast
with, uh, with some of thesepeople.
So we did, uh, like a two hour,um, two and a half hour thing
with, uh, with Tommy.
And exactly the point was to askabout, you know, his life, but
you know, more like what is hedoing today?
And, um, I mean, many of thesepeople are, um.

(59:26):
I think the dean is maybe a bitmore, he has a nutrition
decrease, so he is very deepinto it.
Um, but many of them I thinkare, are like very natural in a
way that they are just doingstuff and, um, they don't have
like a plan or they don't evenhave a coat.
Like Tommy doesn't have a coatsat all.

(59:48):
So it's interesting that he'sdoing his own planning, his own
regimenting completely.
And um, it's, I think the keylearning for me is that, you
know, they, they're prettysensible.
I think they, you know, they eatbalanced diet, but, but I don't
think they really have done alot like, you know, like I think
Tommy wasn't taking like proteinpowder.
As he sued, you know, at thatage, at he's 45 as well.

(01:00:11):
And um, and then I think, youknow, he has, he had never done
a blood test, so we did a, likea full blood test for him.
We'll get the results in amoment to help him.
Um, but, you know, they areextraordinary performers, even
that they are not really fullyoptimized.
So that's just giving you anidea that, you know, different
sports are different.
Like you, you, we, we then workwith people like, um, you know,

(01:00:31):
one of our investors and, youknow, ambassador team members as
well is, so Thomas, he is, um,one of the crate in, uh, in
football.
Uh, he's a hall of famer in, uh,from NFL.
And you know, he was a big guy.
He was like a, you know, 300pound, uh, lineman.
And he played, I think he played16 years without missing a game.

(01:00:53):
Only person I think, ever to dothat.
And how do you do that at thatsize and never miss a game?
It's almost unbelievable.
I mean, no, nobody else ever hasdone that.
So he was like very, veryfocused on food and, and he has
a great story.
It's almost like a unbelievablestory that he stopped playing a
few years ago.
And then he became this fittestguy in the country.

(01:01:14):
He's a lineman and he lostalmost, I think 70 pounds.
And he was in this sort of a,you know, uh, reality TV
contest.
And he won the whole thing.
I.
He looks unbelievable.
He looks like so ripped and youknow, he can, he's like, create
that lead.
And he, he never was that big.
He had to eat excess amount,seven, 8,000 calories every day

(01:01:35):
for 16 years to be that big andhe hated it.
So that was a, that will beinteresting discussion with him
when we get to get to do the,the podcast because, you know,
that is so extreme.
I mean, it's way different than,you know, think about eating
8,000 calories every day to stay300 pounds and you train, I
dunno, three hours a day.
And, you know, you have to be,you have to do reps like, you

(01:01:56):
know, I think they squat like,uh, 500 day they bend

Kush (01:02:00):
Yeah.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_1506 (01:02:01):
You have to be a big guy in every,
every way.

Kush (01:02:04):
It reminds me also what I used to hear about, you know,
the, the Michael Phelps diet,which is, uh, after like, uh,
like any, any training session,he would, uh, you know, he would
cough to medium-sized pizzas,you know, without even, you
know, um, without even like, uh,blinking.
Um, Ari, uh, yeah, a little bitmore about, uh, what is lo and,

(01:02:27):
uh, you know, how can lo helpus?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (01:02:32):
Yeah.
So yeah, what we do, we, we havethis concept that, um, you know,
the underlining kind of idea islike, can, can we make food in
the medicine?
And that's of course the hopeand how can we help that big
idea to be real in a, in a tinysteps.
The other point, we, we thinkabout every day, and we call our
products, they are smart.
So we, we kind of invented thisidea called smart nutrition.

(01:02:55):
Um, we have smart protein, wehave smart supplements, we have
smart gummies.
I.
And, uh, we are trying to get,uh, this word out there.
So back in the days, long timeago, I was working for Nokia and
uh, we launched the firstsmartphone before iPhone and
Android, uh, the Nokia N95.
And we called the device mobilecomputer, not smartphone.

(01:03:19):
And I think, you know, that wasa mistake.
We know that now.
And now I think what we wanna doat ELO is to create these
products that are smart, thatare basically, you know, they're
made for you, they'repersonalized, they are also, uh,
precise based on science andreally, you know, built on the
latest knowledge we have abouthuman health.

(01:03:40):
Then they're proactive.
So the idea is that can we makethem also better over time?
You know, think about like, foodcould be better tasting the more
you have it, or every time youget it, you get the right type
of food.
Or in a supplement space, youknow, as an example, simple
example, when you go winter, youare in a northern hemisphere.
You get, let's say more vitaminD automatically if you need
that.
Or we can, you know, give you,like, you know, if you get cream

(01:04:03):
tea extract, for example, yoursupplement pills, we give it for
three months and then take, takeit away because you, you
shouldn't have that every day ofthe year.
So those are simple things.
We do.
We also, you know, ask you aboutmedication.
If you're taking, you know, a, Band C medication, we
automatically eliminate thenutrients that are interfering
with your medications.
So today you can buy threeproducts.

(01:04:24):
Um, you can buy, you know,supplements in a form of, uh,
pills and, and then gummies.
And then you can buy, uh, aprotein powder that is optimized
you based in your workouts.
And then after every workout wenotify you how much you need.
Like when I go for a.
You know, bike ride, I get anotification after my ride.
I need to have one half scoopsof protein to optimize my

(01:04:45):
recovery and the timing as well.
Uh, but I think the gummies isreally the most kind of exciting
thing today because, you know,we, we wanted to build, and when
you build the product, and I'vebeen doing tech for a long time,
and you always need to build theproduct's 10 times better, not a
little bit better, but 10 times.
So we were like, how do youbuild a supplement experience
that, you know, 120 millionpeople take supplement pills

(01:05:06):
like vitamin D and multivitaminevery day?
And many people take the wrongthings at the wrong dose at the
wrong time.
So we were like, how do we makeit better?
So we built this sort of, thisgummy that is 3D printed for you
to go.
So it's a vegan, organic gummythat we, we 3D print into these
molds.
Only for you.
And we have 400 millioncombinations today.

(01:05:29):
Uh, so we have sold a lot ofgummies already and we have
never sold the same gum to, toone person.
They're all different so far.
It's pretty cool.
And, um, and you can get, getthat based on a, on an
assessment.
We wanted to make the processeasy.
So in the beginning you had todo a blood test, uh, to get our
supplements.
We did enough blood testing andquestionnaires that we learned a

(01:05:50):
pattern with ai and now we canpredict what you need.
We get 80% there.
So you do an assessment, takesabout four minutes, then you get
your gummies, and every quarteryou can then change the flavor,
optimize them.
And if you want, you can alsocustomize the gummies in a way
that the gummy has seven layers.
It's seven pills.
So today, if you take, you know,vitamin D and you take, let's

(01:06:13):
say Asda, or maybe you take, uh,a multivitamin, you can add
those layers into your gummy andthen you don't need to buy them
again.
So you have to save money.
Gummies cost about 59 bucks amonth, and if you buy few pill
bottles, that's probably gonnabe more.
So it's been really fun to, youknow, build these products.
And the whole idea in the longterm is that can we then take

(01:06:34):
these ideas that we are nowgiving for the kind of athletes,
uh, or the high performingpeople like us here?
And can we take them to thehealthcare?
Can we take them to, you know,different places where people
can.
You know, benefit of the factthat you know these autistic,
you know, hardest environmentwith the people who really care

(01:06:55):
about this stuff, and can wethen help even more the people
who may be overweight or obeseand so forth.

Kush (01:07:02):
Uh, incredible.
Uh, you know, that, that's like,uh, personalized, uh, nutrition,
like the next level.
I mean, one is you can beprescribed.
By your medical, uh,professional to go and start,
uh, uh, you know, taking somekind of supplements.
But then the second is, uh, onecan actually have, uh, your, uh,

(01:07:26):
supplements tailored to your,uh, your needs.
And, uh, and where can, uh,people already go to, uh,
either, um, learn more about,uh, the products and, and also
sign up, which I say I thinkthat the price point seems, uh,
quite reasonable given, uh,given the fact that every single
gummy is, uh, is, uh,personalized, uh, to, to the

(01:07:51):
customer.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (01:07:54):
Yeah, no, it, it's, it's actually, I
mean, we worked hard on gettingthe price point to be reasonable
because it's just, um, it'stough if, you know, if the price
too high then people can't buy.
Um, you can go to lolo.healthand um, you can find the
products there and you canfollow lo at, um, lo.health in
Instagram.
And you can follow me at Aridoula on, uh, LinkedIn.

(01:08:16):
I'm pretty active on LinkedInoverall.

Kush (01:08:18):
We will put those, uh, links in the show notes, and we
are running, uh, into the end ofour show.
Uh, just a few, uh, you know,few fun questions to, uh, oh,
uh, to, uh, you know, talk aboutbefore we wrap up.
Um, there are many things thatyou're doing well today.
Uh, any, anything that you wannatalk about which, uh, you wish

(01:08:42):
you were better at?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15 (01:08:46):
Yeah, I think, I think, you know, set
setting, I think goals, um, andbeing maybe more focused would
be, would be good because, youknow, it's, um, you, you try to
be, you know, doing the rightthings, the right time, but
often you, you still are gonnamessy and that's what life is.
But, um, but I think it would bereally great to, to, maybe have,

(01:09:07):
um, um, some long-term goals.
And I, I think I need that.
So I, I'm, I'm looking at now,like I do every year I do, uh, a
thing called Miss Sogi, andthat's kind of the idea in Japan
that you can go and do somethinghard one time a year so you feel
alive.
So the monks went under likethis cold waterfall and they

(01:09:28):
stayed there under, they almostdie.
And, um, my oggi this year, lastyear was the bike ride, 500 k.
I've done multiple differenttype of things like I've been,
I.
Doing like a waiting in theriver.
I've been, you know, doingthings like, you know, going on
on lcap, um, you know, doinglike, you know, hikes that are a

(01:09:48):
hundred miles and, uh, everyyear different.
But that to me is really fun.
Like have a goal to kind of doand go.
And, and now at this day Iwanted to do maybe a bit more
competition.
So I was thinking like, youknow, do some cycling.
I just signed up to one in MarinDuro here in the Bay Area in a
month and a half, two months.
Probably gonna do like one bigtravell ride, like a maybe 200

(01:10:10):
miler.
Um, just to get like a feelthat, you know, there's a,
there's something to wait andsome a comp.
So I think I need like a, maybea couple things, um, to, to get
into calendar.
So, uh, to give motivation.
Uh, it's all about not havingthe motivation, but having like
this sort of feel that, youknow, you wanna do things and
maybe extra push and then kindof feel that you can, you so

(01:10:32):
yourself that you know you canstill do it.
So that's maybe one, one thingthat I need to do, do better

Kush (01:10:38):
I, I mean, to me it seems it seems like you're already
doing those things, but yes.
Of, of course, I'm sure thereis, uh, there is room for
improvement, uh, um, yeah,everywhere.
Um.
Ari, in the last, uh, again, inthe last, uh, few years, is
there, has there been a, abelief, uh, a behavior or a

(01:11:00):
habit, uh, that comes to mindthat has, uh, most, uh, your
life?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_150 (01:11:09):
Hmm, that's a good question.
Um, I, I think, you know, I, I,I think one thing that has
really impacted me, um, has beenthe fasting

Kush (01:11:20):
Hmm.

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_150 (01:11:20):
and, um, I started maybe, maybe four
or five years ago, and my ideais to, you know, do a four five
day fast once a quarter.
And I haven't done it everyquarter, but I've been trying to
be pretty consistent.
And, and that has been veryeye-opening because when you do
it, it's very hard to do firsttime.

(01:11:42):
And the second, maybe third, butonce you have done it 10 times,
you know what it is.
And you are fine without food.
And then you can do innovativefasting, no problem.
You can do a day fast, noproblem.
Because the, the thing is thatwhen you be fasted for three
days, um, you don't need to eatanymore.
So the third time I did it, Iwent seven days because I felt

(01:12:04):
so good.
And of course, it's not veryhealthy.
You're gonna start to, you know,burn muscle and stuff like that.
But the fasting is a veryinteresting thing.
And there's a fundamental healthbenefit, I think, for longevity,
like helping you to rejuvenateyour stem cells, uh, helping you
lean the senescent cells, thedead cells in your body.
And, um, and I, I thinkeverything that we read today

(01:12:26):
and learn means that fastingmight be one of the best things
you can do.
I don't mean.
12 hour fasting or 50 16 hourfasting.
But I mean, like really fastingmultiple days and the benefits
really kick in after this secondor third day.

Kush (01:12:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um, I have.
Uh, I have attempted, uh, tostart a couple of fasts myself.
And one thing that's always, uh,uh, stopped me, and I think this
might be just my lazy self, is,uh, hey, I would like to fast,
uh, this week, but then I needto put in this time towards my
climbing training.

(01:13:00):
And, and then I have the surfsession schedule.
So, are you able to continuedoing your sports re while
you're on a fast?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_150 (01:13:09):
You, you can probably go surf, I
think.
Um, but I don't, I, I don'tthink you can do, you know, on
the second day you can, butthird, fourth day, I don't think
I go climb.
Uh, you can't definitely gobike, right?
You are, you are just too weak.
And that's a, that's a realproblem.
Uh, so I try to.
Put them in a calendar long inadvance and clean up, you know,
some stuff.
It's almost like if you workreally hard, that's a great time

(01:13:32):
to fast.

Kush (01:13:33):
Yeah.
And maybe, maybe the fasting canbe also like, uh, that time
could be like a muscle recoverytime, you know, rest is good if
one does it, uh, in anintelligent way.
Um, Ari, just one last question,uh, before we, uh, wrap up here.
Um, if there was, uh, a giantbillboard somewhere where you
could print any message, uh, youwanna say to others, uh, what

(01:13:55):
would you like to say?

ari-tulla_1_01-18-2024_15063 (01:13:59):
I, I, I think, um, the, the trust
to it is a, is a very goodmantra because you, you have so
many people who are, you know,still at older age, they are
procrastinating, they're notdoing the things they wanna do,
they talk about it.
And, um, I always tend to opt indoing things.

(01:14:20):
And, uh, it, it has paid offdividend greatly, and I've done
it for a long time, and now it'sthe second nature Today.
I, I tend to always opt intoaction and, um, that's the only
way to get things done and buildcompanies and, you know, have a
life that is really interesting.
And at that point, often alsosaying yes has been really good.

(01:14:42):
But I think now more and more Isay no because it's just, uh,
there's too many people asking,uh, for the time.
So you have to say no.
But, uh, but the point that, youknow, if you do things, you just
go and do it.
Don't procrastinate and focuson, you know, action instead of
inaction.

Kush (01:15:00):
Awesome.
I mean, yeah, badass.
Uh, I will say that, uh, weshould have Chad GPT, uh,
rephrase that as something else,or, you know, the night lawyers
are gonna.
You know, come crack you downfor a copyright violation.
Alright, it's been a fantasticconversation.
Maybe we'll have you again in ayear or so and see how things
are going for now.
Uh, thanks so much.
I think there is still some,some daylight left, so I hope

(01:15:22):
you get some of that before uh,your day's over.
Thanks again for

Track 1 (01:15:26):
coming on the show.
Hey thank you so much, it wasfun

Yeti Stereo Microphone-3 (01:15:33):
The future of nutrition and of
sports science makes me giddywith excitement.
We are just beginning to tapinto the possibilities that lie
ahead for helping us improve notjust lifespan, but our quality
of life overall.
The challenge of course is goingto be for adoption and scale,
but I'm glad that folks like Ariand others are helping pave the

(01:15:57):
way.
Thanks for listening, and pleasefollow and subscribe to the
show.
Until next time, stay ageless.

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#5 Ari Tulla - Endurance Sports for Longevity vs Intensity, Water Fasting, Tracking Sleep and Personalized Supplements for All

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#5 Ari Tulla - Endurance Sports for Longevity vs Intensity, Water Fasting, Tracking Sleep and Personalized Supplements for All