November 6, 2025 • 41 mins
In this episode of All About The Joy, Culture and Consequence:
The lines wrapped around buildings, the speeches were unapologetic, and for a moment the air felt lighter. We dive into why this week’s blue wave hit so hard, not as a finish line but as proof that showing up still moves the needle. From New York’s historic win to California’s focused ballot, we celebrate the turnout while arguing for what comes next: sustained participation, smarter information diets, and a hard reset on political passivity.
We get frank about media literacy and how to build it. Instead of trusting brands, we talk about following journalists who bring receipts, checking quotes against transcripts, and separating interpretations from facts. That thinking shapes a deeper look at Democratic coalition politics: the tension between big-tent pragmatism and democratic socialist energy, why endorsements matter symbolically even if they don’t decide races, and how purity tests can stall progress. We don’t chase heroes; we ask for accountable policies and a coalition that can actually govern.
The conversation turns to age and power, and what it means for leaders to step aside while remaining influential as mentors and advisors. Then we take on the legacy of Dick Cheney, tracing a direct line from the unitary executive theory, the Iraq War, and torture to the democratic strain we’re living with now. Late-life repudiations don’t erase earlier harm, and we wrestle with forgiveness, boundaries, and the right to withhold absolution when public choices cost lives. Along the way, we call out corporate media’s selective silence and make a practical case for following credible reporters, tracking money, and refusing distraction.
If you care about turnout, truth, and the hard work of governing a plural country, this one’s for you. Listen, share with a friend, and leave a review to help more people find the show. Then take one concrete step this week—register a voter, read beyond the headline, or have the hard conversation—and tell us what you did.
Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.
Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carmen Lezeth (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
This is Culture and Consequencewith Carmen and Andrea.
How are you feeling aboutyesterday?
Andrea (00:08):
Was it yesterday?
It was Tuesday.
I mean, it's been a good week,I think.
I'm just saying.
Carmen Lezeth (00:15):
Um But for people who don't know, in case they're
watching this at some othertime, we well, there was a blue
wave.
It was the election on Tuesdayacross the nation.
Andrea (00:27):
Well, only in certain places, but yeah, I mean, look,
you know, Democrats won in allkinds of places, Mississippi.
You know, I mean, Dick Cheneydied.
Carmen Lezeth (00:39):
Uh you're good.
Well, let's just let's I mean,we're gonna talk about Dick
Cheney because I think that wasthe email I sent you, right?
In the text message orwhatever.
I was like, I know that DickCheney meant a lot to you.
Andrea (00:52):
Oh, he meant a lot of things to me.
Yes, can't wait to get intothem.
Carmen Lezeth (00:58):
And I, you know, before we honor what has
happened on his passing, Iwanted to finish up.
Let me just say what I thinkabout the blue wave.
I just, I am so proud of NewYork on so many levels.
It wasn't just that, um, andI'm gonna mess up his name until
I learn it correctly, but MomDonnie uh was elected mayor of
(01:21):
uh New York.
And, you know, I was onFacebook the other day, on that
day or whatever, and I sawpeople and I I just blocked them
immediately.
So I I want to make this apublic service announcement.
Somebody wrote on Facebook, Ican't believe after 25 years
after 9-11, New York elected aMuslim.
(01:44):
Like that is racist.
So I don't understand.
Like, I don't know how peopledon't understand the simplicity
and the cruelty and thenastiness.
You know, so I I'm like justblocking people now.
I'm not even responding, butI'm just so happy for him and so
(02:04):
happy for New York.
And um, and I know it probablyhurts you to love Gavin Newsom
at this moment.
Andrea (02:12):
But he's done the right thing.
He did the right thing.
Carmen Lezeth (02:15):
That's that's all you can muster.
Andrea (02:18):
Let's say that's all I can muster.
That is all I can muster inthis moment.
Uh, he did the right thing andit worked, and so that's good.
Carmen Lezeth (02:26):
God, you really have no love for that man.
Andrea (02:28):
I do not.
We'll see.
We'll see what he does.
Um, you know, but um we wewon't go into Gavin today.
Carmen Lezeth (02:35):
Okay, we won't go into Gavin today.
I'm just very proud ofCalifornia as well.
There was nobody on the ticket,it was just a proposition.
Andrea (02:43):
It was a single thing.
Like, I was all I I didn'tactually realize it was just one
thing.
I thought it, I was like,where's my my pamphlet?
Like, what am I doing here?
And I looked at my sampleballot and I was like, Oh.
Carmen Lezeth (02:57):
I know because there have been so many times
where you and I will call eachother and be like, Who is this
judge?
Like, because we'll do all thisresearch and try to figure out,
and it's a job to vote is ajob, but it was only one thing,
and I was like, Oh, okay, great.
Andrea (03:11):
There were lines.
My husband went to go vote,yeah, you know, in our little
local area, and there were linesof people.
He's like a person, he does notlike to do mail or drop off or
whatever.
It's like his thing, which isgood for him, you know.
Yeah, and he took a picture andhe was like around the
building.
Carmen Lezeth (03:30):
It was awesome.
I mean, I think that's alsowhat made me so happy and made
me shed a tear a bit was thatyou know, that is what democracy
is about.
Like, you have to actually goand vote.
And all these people, yeah, youactually have to participate.
And I I I loathe so manypeople.
We've said this before, I sayit all the time now, but I am so
(03:52):
sick and tired of people sayingI don't do politics.
Well, it's motherfucking doingyou.
I've said that so many times.
Andrea (03:57):
Did you see Mamdani's speech where he said politics
has been doing you?
I was like meeting.
I was like, Oh my god, why doyou watch the show?
Carmen Lezeth (04:08):
So funny.
I just feel that more peopleneed to be involved.
And unfortunately, a lot ofpeople are being involved by
force.
You know, that's unfortunate.
Also, the Latino community who,you know, for what it's worth,
a lot of Latino people had votedfor that dumbass.
And, you know, you made amistake.
(04:29):
You made a huge motherfuckingmistake, but you came out in
droves and voted blue, which I'mnot gonna give you credit for
because that's the other thing Iwant to say.
We are at the beginning of thismarathon from hell.
We are not done yet.
So it was a good night, Tuesdaynight.
Andrea (04:48):
Totally.
We'll see what happens, girls.
Carmen Lezeth (04:51):
Right.
We we're not done.
Like you have to enjoy, enjoy,and then okay, the hour of
enjoyment is over.
Andrea (04:57):
One hour, and now we're like back to well, and I mean,
not to bring the room down, butlike you saw Trump had a
meltdown that night, and it waslike more, more nastiness, more
pain, and it's like it's aclassic abuser tactic, right?
Like, what's the most dangeroustime to, you know, in an
(05:18):
abusive relationship when youtry to leave, when you try to
break it off.
And so he sees oh, everybodydoesn't love me.
Everything went against me thisnight.
So, you know what I mean?
Like bring on the pain, and andI think it will be more.
I think it will be uh, youknow, next year, the midterms
(05:38):
are gonna be, you know, we aregonna have to be on the ball.
People when you say like peopleneed to get involved, like
start getting involved now,right now.
Start, you know, there areunsure everywhere across this
country.
There are already people doingcommunity organizing, there, you
know, like voter registrations,whatever it is, all you know,
(05:59):
voters.
Or just read a book or two.
Carmen Lezeth (06:04):
Like, like you're asking, like, I'm not even
asking for people to go doanything.
I just want people to read.
I was listening to someone theother day.
I I I don't want to be mean topeople because I think in the
trying, that's good.
That's a good part of it too.
But you gotta do more than justtry.
(06:24):
You gotta do more than justread the headlines, like
actually read an article andthen investigate that article
and then make sure that youunderstand what it means, you
know, like really start becominga full-fledged citizen of the
United States and understandthings.
An informed person, right?
Andrea (06:41):
Like, stop allowing people to feed you what you
believe.
Yeah, not to believe in you.
Carmen Lezeth (06:48):
No, let's just go listen to us though.
No, but you should question ustoo.
Andrea (06:54):
I would never want you to just believe anything.
I'm a total asshole.
Like, definitely question me.
Carmen Lezeth (07:01):
For real, though, it's so true.
But but I think that's whatpeople get wrapped up in, you
know.
Like, once like there were afew people that when I listen to
them, I'm like, okay, because Iknow and I've seen, and it's
been years.
Like, if they say something, Idon't have to double triple
check them.
And yet I still do, because I'msometimes so beside myself that
(07:23):
that cannot be true.
I have to just find anothercouple of sources.
Andrea (07:26):
I read something last night.
Um, it was about Chuck Schumer,which whatever, we won't go
down that road.
But I read something about andI was like, and it was from
somebody who I have a greatamount of respect for as a
journalist, as a writer, etc.
And I was like, didn't hereally say that?
Um, and I looked and it waslike, that was an interpretation
(07:51):
of what exactly he said, and itis an interpretation one could
make, but it's not what heactually meant.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
And like, again, this issomeone whose opinion I trust,
who I have read, who I follow,all of those kinds of things.
You have to be, you have to usethe critical thinking skills.
(08:12):
That's what critical thinkingis.
You read something, you hearsomething, and you critique it
in your head, and you decide,you think to yourself, is that
really true?
Maybe I should look into that alittle bit more.
Carmen Lezeth (08:23):
Or, and here's the thing
is a true interpretation.
It doesn't mean that's what wasmeant by Chuck Schumer or
whoever the person is.
So it's always good to try tofollow up and find the actual
and decide for yourself.
Andrea (08:39):
Is that you know, is that do I feel like that's an
accurate interpretation?
What do I think he meant?
You know, those like use yourbrain.
Use your brain, use it.
Carmen Lezeth (08:49):
And also, people make mistakes, people.
Like it's not even has to be sointentional, right?
It's not like everyone in themedia is trying to screw you
over for some George Soros orwhatever.
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't think thateveryone is out.
I just think we are at a pointwhere we're starting to
understand there's no such thingas objective journalism.
(09:10):
There isn't.
There never has been.
Sorry, Walter Cronkite.
There never has been, becauseeveryone has an edge or an
opinion.
Like, if I choose to tell yousomething, that's me making a
decision to tell you somethingfrom a point of view.
Right.
Or leave something out.
Or leave something out.
Exactly.
(09:31):
So it's so much more layeredand nuanced.
And if we can become betterpeople, like the the most
wonderful thing that couldhappen after this stupid ass
Trump administration would bethat we become more engaged,
smarter human beings, andunderstand our political
(09:52):
process.
But now I know that might beasking too much, but I'm just
saying that could be one of thethings that could happen by
force, but we really need to besmarter as citizens of this
country, as people who livehere, you know.
Um, but yeah, Tuesday night wasfinally like it's been so long.
Andrea (10:12):
It was it was like an inkling, I would say.
The closest maybe like, forexample, my kids who were
teenagers could get to thefeeling that we had in 2008.
Carmen Lezeth (10:27):
When Barack Obama was around.
Andrea (10:29):
Right, right.
Like, you know, I was like, isthat what is what is warming my
cold, dark, clinical heart rightnow?
Is that like the idea of thething?
Watching his speech, I was like,fuck yes, thank you.
(10:49):
Thank you for beingunapologetic.
Thank you for supportingimmigrants, trans people,
working people.
Like, thank you for being aperson.
And we know I do not do heroworship on politicians, right?
Like, but like let's actuallybelieve in something and stand
(11:10):
behind it and be our authenticselves.
Carmen Lezeth (11:12):
Okay, I'm gonna now, so I'm gonna throw a little
wrench in here.
So, because I think so.
People were talking about howKamala Harris and Jeffries and
Schumer did not back mom Donnie.
I I have to be very careful howI say because I keep messing
up, but that's right, like momDonnie.
Um, they didn't back him fullyand completely.
(11:34):
They were kind of doing thatwishy-washy thing.
Here's what I want to say.
I actually don't believe ineverything he believes in.
I am not a democraticsocialist.
I'm not.
I am I know.
Andre is.
Here's what I want to say thatI think is actually really
important is I don't have tobelieve in everything a
politician does or says.
We're human beings.
(11:55):
This idea that you have to takethe litmus test, and if you
don't check every one of myboxes, you are not worthy of my
vote.
That is the other part of thisthat drives me insane.
So people were all in thecomments, like, yeah, dismiss
all of these people who weren'tback.
And like, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not how we do this.
Because you also have toremember it's layered.
(12:17):
If Schumer, and and I'm notmaking excuses for them, but I
am justifying why.
I know for a fact they wouldn'thave full-throatedly, that's
probably a bad way to say that,right?
They wouldn't fully embracehim, is because the Democratic
Party or this side of the worldisn't completely on board and
(12:38):
they would have lost a lot ofthose base people.
Actually, I think what happenedwas so much better.
New York, this, you know, NewYork did this thing, and now
we're all like, hmm, what doesdemocratic socialists mean?
How is that different?
You know what I mean?
And take the elements of itthat we want and need, which is
being compassionate and lovingand whatever, and being
(12:59):
open-minded.
And, you know, he's going tosupposedly do all these things,
which by the way, I don't thinkhe can do them all.
He's the mayor.
So yeah, so let's bring it downa notch.
But that's kind of the otherpart of this, too, is like, I
don't want to say big tentbecause I'm so sick of that
fucking idea, but I think wehave to get to this place where
we have to stop checking boxesto allow people to become their
(13:23):
best selves in office.
Andrea (13:24):
They they can't the idea that you don't need to agree,
or we don't need to have everysingle box checked.
Um, I disagree though, withthis idea that it was somehow
better for them to not endorseJeff Schumer never endorsed and
didn't even wouldn't even say ifyou voted for him.
Um and Jeffries came out liketwo days before the election or
(13:48):
something.
I think like two hours before.
Yeah, I mean, and so my feelingabout that.
I mean, like, are thereendorsements, do they matter?
I don't know, maybe, maybe not,but um you do have to support
the people.
It's literally our point,right?
Like, he doesn't maybe checkevery box for you, Jeffries or
(14:08):
Schumer or whatever.
Um, but you do have to supportthe people who are on the
democratic ticket if you are aDemocratic.
Carmen Lezeth (14:16):
But I think that's what you're confusing.
I do think they're supportingthe Democratic ticket.
I think they're not endorsinghim so that they don't ruffle
feathers for other people.
Look at, I look at, I hateBernie Sanders.
Everyone knows I hate BernieSanders.
I'm not a big fan of AOC.
I'm not, because I'm not ademocratic socialist.
Now, I'm not saying that ifChuck Schumer jumped in and
(14:39):
said, you know, I'm for MomDonnie, I'd have been like,
absolutely not.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I'm not saying that.
What I am saying is that thisidea that everyone has to agree
and has to show and has to jumpup and down, it doesn't have to
happen that way.
And let me just clarify what Imeant by I think it was better
it happened this way, because Ithink you missed, I misspoke.
(14:59):
But I think it's better thatNew York elected a democratic
socialist as opposed to everyonewho keeps saying Bernie Sanders
should have been president backin the day.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that was never going tohappen because the idea of
democratic socialism is such ahard thing for people to
understand in the United States.
(15:20):
So here in New York, we have aman, by the way, being a
democratic socialist is not abad thing, but people don't
understand the word socialismand they don't understand the
difference.
Let me give you a quickdefinition so you understand.
Democrats are like Clinton, um,uh Hillary Clinton, Bill
Clinton, Barack Obama, and uhKamala Harris are straight up
(15:45):
Democrats.
Democratic socialists are likeAOC, Bernie Sanders, and Mom
Dami.
Like that's a good way.
They're just very different.
There's more of a socialistbend to it.
I feel your energy.
What's happening?
Andrea (16:00):
I just think it's absolute bullshit when you have
someone that's that who is isthat charismatic, is young, has
captured the attention literallyof people around the world.
And the leadership of the partyis like, I don't think so.
Carmen Lezeth (16:15):
No, I know, but because you believe in what he's
saying, because you believe ineverything, Andrea.
That's why you wouldn't feelthat way if it was Gavin
Newsome.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Andrea (16:26):
You wouldn't feel that way if it was Gavin Newsome.
Gavin Newsom is not thatcharismatic and exciting and has
not captured okay.
Carmen Lezeth (16:33):
You know what's so funny?
You're absolutely this is myyou've just that's the point.
Yes, he is.
Not to you because you don'tlike him.
You know what I mean?
Like, yes, he is.
Everyone loves him.
That is my point.
Is like there again, I I hearyou, but I'm I'm going to
disagree with you, which is youknow, we can disagree, we can
agree to disagree.
But Gavin Newsom is the exactthing that you just said.
(16:58):
And I'm saying for me and forother people, it's uh it there
is a part of me, and I see theBernie part and the AOC part,
and that is not something Iagree with.
You know what I mean?
Like I don't like them, youknow.
I will support them, I willvote for them.
Andrea (17:14):
That is my point.
Carmen Lezeth (17:16):
They voted for it, but no, that's my point.
But I am not gonna sit here andpromote Bernie Sanders and AOC.
You are not a leader in theDemocratic Party.
But I understand why they'renot doing it because there are
people who do listen to them.
That's why they're the leadersof the party.
Okay.
Okay, we go and go, you knowwhat?
This is this is our phone call.
(17:37):
Okay, this is why I'd be like,bitch, enough.
No, I'm just gonna like lookit.
So let's talk about NancyPelosi because she just decided
to, at the age of 85, she isfinally going to retire.
And I can I tell you I'm notagreeing break today.
I haven't looked at the news.
Yeah, Nancy Pelosi announcedtoday that she's going to retire
(17:58):
and not run for office at theage of motherfucking 85.
I mean, they didn't saymotherfucking 85, but she's been
in office since 1987.
Look at wow, you can alreadytell how I feel about it, but
I'm like, no, no, I want her.
I I think she should haveretired 20 years ago.
Andrea (18:16):
How do you feel about it?
I don't just look, I mean, um Ithink she got us through some
rough times, right?
I mean, she was when we say 20years ago, that would erase the
Obama years.
I think it was we can thank herfor ACA, um, you know, getting
that passed.
Uh, but yeah, like honestly,beyond like 70, what are you
(18:41):
doing?
Go find some other shit to do.
Why do you need to be there?
Carmen Lezeth (18:45):
This podcast is going to be known for being
ageist.
That's just like we are theworst people in the world when
it comes to the city.
Like, I've already gotten acouple emails.
Andrea (18:54):
We talked about this before though, and it's like
these are people who are makingdecisions for the country, and
they have no under no realunderstanding of the things that
are important to people who are20, 30, 40 years younger than
(19:17):
them.
They are making decisions thatthey will never have to live
with the res the consequencesof.
Carmen Lezeth (19:22):
And and here's the thing, I'm I'm not against
them contributing and I'm notagainst them being a part of
being like the, I don't knowwhat the word would be, like uh
um elder statesman or elderstateswoman or whatever.
But I don't want you in officeafter I just think like there
needs to be, I don't know ifterm limits would be it or if it
(19:43):
would be an age thing.
I I go back to this idea thatwe demonize getting older.
So everyone holds on becausethey don't want to retire, they
don't want to be nothing, andthat's a cultural thing in the
United States where we demonizegetting older.
Um, and and and we like throwpeople away the minute they turn
(20:04):
65.
That's not what we're saying.
I just want to clear.
I did get a couple of emails onthis.
Not at all.
Andrea (20:10):
That's not a business partner is 83 years old.
Like there is a lot of wisdomand and you know, but your
business partner lets you runthe business.
Exactly.
Carmen Lezeth (20:22):
Step back and elder statesman.
That's what I'm saying.
Like you become somebody else,you know what I mean?
You become a different entitythat is more revered, more
respected.
I lost a lot of respect forNancy Pelosi.
Ironically, you're gonna jumpdown my throat now.
How she treated AOC and thewhole group that walked in the
(20:44):
door, you know what I mean?
Like, because to me, I waslike, no, this is the group,
this is the young up-and-cominggroup, and like let them, let
them take over.
But that's about a weird senseof power, too.
You know, that's a weird senseof power.
Andrea (20:59):
It's control.
I think, I think definitelywhen they're sort of in the
upper echelons of power in inany of these um institutions, or
businesses for that matter, youstart to get, they start to get
a sense of like, you know, theycan't do it without me.
You know, like I'm tooimportant in this process, and I
(21:20):
just, you know, I can't let go,they're not ready for it yet.
Carmen Lezeth (21:24):
You know, I think if we could change also the
culture about, like, I don'tknow, I'd love to be revered.
I'd like to retire and peoplebe like, Carmen, can we call
you?
Andrea (21:34):
I mean, some of these people, if they let it go
earlier, they would be morerevered than if they hold on for
this long, and literally makingenemies along the way, and
people who are like, you can'teven fucking stand up.
I don't respect you anymore.
Yeah, Diane Beinstein is agreat example.
Carmen Lezeth (21:50):
Oh my god.
I mean, I right, we loved her,and then I'm like, what is going
on in the past like 15 years?
It was just like soembarrassing.
I voted, I loved DianeFeinstein.
Andrea (22:01):
First of all, she looked like Diane Beinstein and we can
and I voted for her everysingle time she was on my
ballot.
And I'll tell you that lastvote I regretted like a mofo
because she was not there.
She was not there.
We cannot have the stakes, theyare too high at this point on
all fronts, even without Trump.
(22:22):
No, of course, of course.
In in where we are in ourcountry right now to have people
who can't make coherentdecisions, can't even be able to
do that.
Carmen Lezeth (22:35):
If you really love your country and it really
is about the people and itreally is about your service,
you wouldn't stay for that long.
But it actually takes somebodyto tell people the truth, right?
Like this is part of theproblem.
And I always think about thiswith Arlene.
I know you worked with Arleneat one point too, and I told you
the story.
(22:56):
Uh, it was this weird thingwhere she thought it was okay to
keep driving.
And she was like in her 80s,and her family, everybody was,
and this is somebody who couldafford to take an Uber, right?
Like it's not an Uber.
She had a chauffeur.
But it was, it's one of thosestories where I went in and I
just screamed at her and I madethe one comment, and I said, I
(23:19):
don't care if you drove and gotinto an accident and killed
yourself, but you would never beable to live with yourself if
you killed someone else.
And I got the keys that day.
And it's like, and and youknow, I'm not trying to make
this like a big deal, but it'slike at some point you have to
put that in front of people.
And look at I admit right nowthat as I get older and older, I
(23:41):
can't wait to retire.
I would retire now if I could,right?
Andrea (23:45):
Right.
Carmen Lezeth (23:46):
Why do you want to keep working?
I'm fucking ready, man.
I just ain't got the money.
Maybe, maybe they didn't havethe money.
Andrea (23:52):
Yeah, right.
Carmen Lezeth (23:53):
Maybe.
Maybe, maybe that's whatPayPal.
Right.
But um, but I just feel likethere they need, you know, like
I'm like all the tributes arestarting, whatever, and I'm
like, yeah, you know whatthough?
I'm angry.
And I'll I'll never forget theway in which she treated.
It's so funny because I I'm nota big fan of AOC and stuff, but
I will never forget that.
That little group, remember thegroup of um young people who
(24:15):
walked in.
Yeah, I can't remember whatthey're I can't remember all
their names, right?
Right, right, right.
I just remember being like, no,this is not the way it works.
I'm sorry, I said it's shitty,and it's almost like kind of
mean girlish, right?
Andrea (24:29):
Like, not to bring it back to, but it's like, it's not
your turn, girl, you know.
Carmen Lezeth (24:34):
And I'll decide when it's your turn.
Yeah, and I'm more importantand better than you.
And it's like, yeah, actually,no, you know what I mean?
Like, you could be someone whoteaches them stuff.
Why why can't you just mentor,right?
Yeah, yeah.
So let's talk about Dick Cheneybecause I actually, I mean, I
was kidding with you, but weboth have no respect for Dick
(24:56):
Cheney.
And I know I'll just so he diedon Monday, um November 3rd.
Was it Tuesday?
It was Monday, November 3rd at84.
I think we all heard about iton Tuesday, but he actually died
on November 3rd.
Um, and one of the quotes thatI think changed everything.
(25:17):
I mean, I I think the George W.
Bush administration, again,we've talked about this before,
set up where we're at right nowon so many levels.
But one of the quotes he wrote,uh, one of the quotes he said,
Dick Cheney, was simply stated,there is no doubt that Saddam
Hussein now has weapons of massdestruction.
And he said that in um 2002,justifying the Iraq war, and
(25:41):
later was discredited when noWMDs, weapons of mass uh
destruction were found.
His connection to Halliburton,which is this whole kind of he
was the CEO of this company thatwas just making money.
It starts this kind of takingmoney while you're in office
bullshittery.
Then the whole thing aboutnever talking about gay people,
(26:04):
never saying a word, never henever uttered a single word,
even though the Republican Partywas so against LGBTQ, was so
against uh marriage or whatever.
And then during the Kerr debatein 2004, that's when it came
out that his daughter MaryCheney was gay.
And it there was a cowardness,being a coward during that time
(26:26):
period when you could haveadvocated for gay marriage or
advocated for the rights ofpeople in the LGBTQ community,
and you didn't.
And then the last I'm gonna letyou speak.
And then the last thing I'mgonna say that I thought was
weird, and I'm not a parent, butI'm thinking I'm not a parent,
but I would think this is acheesy thing.
A lot of people were sayingwas, oh, but he raised his
(26:48):
daughter, Liz Cheney, right?
You know, because she came outand was voting for Kamala and
whatever, and I don't know,found her Jesus moment.
I have no idea.
But I was like, that can't be,you you can't be a parent who
does bad things and then rely onyour daughter to like fix your
legacy.
I have no idea, but yeah, goahead.
Andrea (27:09):
I'm sorry.
Oh, Dick Cheney was an evilmotherfucker.
Um, and that is just anobjective truth.
He was in the you know uhleadership of every Republican
(27:30):
administration from before I wasborn, which was a long ringing
time ago, um, until 2008, 2009,technically.
Um so we're talking Nixon,yeah.
Uh he was I think he was uhFord's chief of staff, you know,
(27:51):
so probably had a hand in thepardon of Nixon.
Uh Reagan, which you know, Icould spend 17 hours talking
about what an evil motherfuckerhe was, and uh HW Bush, he was
the Secretary of Defense, right?
And then uh, you know, the thewonderful W years uh were with
(28:16):
Rumsfeld, with Rumsfeld, who washis mentor, also an evil
motherfucker, yeah, um, who I'mglad is dead.
And like there is no possibleway to absolve to wipe off the
stain of the misery and deaththat this person caused around
(28:37):
the world and here in the UnitedStates.
Carmen Lezeth (28:41):
Um I don't even I can't even believe anyone would
begin to praise or honor thisthis type of well they are
because they're you know I knowbecause later in his life and
like and and he voted for KamalaHarris and he talked about that
and he I know it's but I do webelieve in forgiveness?
Andrea (29:01):
Do we believe in Andrea clearly does not, but I just
because we voted one time forone person does not wipe off all
of the evil that you didthroughout your life.
Carmen Lezeth (29:16):
I think what's more important for me is the
setup of how we're at today, andyou know, can I forgive?
Sure, whatever.
I don't forget, you know what Imean?
Like, and I don't absolvepeople of creating a space where
evil continues, you know what Imean?
If there was a way in which youstopped it, you know, again, it
(29:38):
goes back to this thing aboutcourage.
Like if you know that yourchild is gay and people are
demonizing gay people and youhave power and you decide not to
say a word or even just kind ofhave it be assumed that you
don't like gay people, I it'shard for me to.
(29:59):
Have any kind of compassion orthought process that you are a
decent human being.
I don't like cowards.
Andrea (30:08):
He wasn't a decent human being.
You know?
And yeah, he didn't like Trump.
Okay.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, I alright.
I mean, people are complex,right?
Do multiple things can be trueat the same time.
And you know, just because weagree that Trump is, you know, a
(30:32):
horrible evil stain on thiscountry, um, doesn't mean that
we wipe away all of the bad thathe did, which was a very
significant lot of bad.
Carmen Lezeth (30:44):
That again, I'm going to say, especially if you
go back, not you, but if peoplego back and just look at the
history of how it opens thisdoor, these avenues that we're
in today, widens them.
And um, you know, but this isalso thinking about people that
might be watching that are stillTrump supporters, they're not
going to make that connection,you know, because if you're
(31:05):
still supporting Trump in thisway today, you're probably not
watching our show.
So you're not watching theshow.
Andrea (31:12):
Yeah, he was a proponent of this idea of the unitary
executive, right?
Which is the executive, there'sthe three branches of power,
and executive is up here at thetop, right?
Carmen Lezeth (31:22):
Yes, he pushed for radical expansion of
presidential authority, which iswhat does that sound like?
Andrea (31:30):
You can do things like go to war without Congress's
approval.
You can do things like createenhanced interrogation
techniques, which is torture.
You know what I mean?
You can do things like open aguantanamo and have people put
there really for life with nodue process.
(31:52):
I mean, there's all kinds, andthat's just connections, right?
Carmen Lezeth (31:55):
Right?
There are connections all overthe place.
This is what's happening nowand what he did.
Andrea (31:59):
Exactly.
It's a direct thread, a linethat you can draw that's like
Dick Chaney had his hands inthis, and here's Trump.
And it's like, oh, I don't likethe way you're doing that.
I only liked it when I wasdoing that.
So I'm gonna vote for thislady.
I don't believe in anything sheactually proposes, I don't
believe in any of her policies.
And the minute I can, I willget a Republican there who
(32:22):
believes in exactly the samethings I do, but just isn't
Trump.
Carmen Lezeth (32:26):
Right.
Yeah, fuck that.
It's just an interesting thing.
And so I I mean I I really didwant to talk about it a little
bit because I thought it was umfascinating.
And I'm always fascinated byhow we revise, right?
It's always a people in powerthat revise the actual truth.
And here's something that Iknow a lot of people get upset
about.
I can hate whoever I want tohate.
Andrea (32:48):
You know what I mean?
Carmen Lezeth (32:49):
Like, I can despise whoever I want to
despise.
It's not it's not hurting mysoul, it's not making my life
cheaper, it's not, it's notdoing anything to me.
I just think that we've gotteninto this thing where, like, oh
no, you cannot hate anybody.
Yet your behavior is positivefor you.
That is, you know what it's noteating at my soul.
(33:10):
It's not eating at my soul.
Like, I love the isms thatwe've grown up and we've just
accepted.
That's one of them, right?
That people are like, um, youknow, you you have to forgive
for your no, no, I I reallydon't have to forgive anybody.
Um, but it makes you feelbetter.
I forgive, you know what Imean?
Andrea (33:27):
Like, but I don't forget.
Right.
Like I've I have people in myactual life who I'm like, yeah,
I don't need to forgive them,but I can like put them off to
the side and like live my lifehappy and joyous and whatever,
you know.
Carmen Lezeth (33:41):
No, but enjoy forgiveness is for you, it's not
for them.
Andrea (33:45):
It's actually not fine.
Carmen Lezeth (33:48):
Yeah, that's part of my book that I'm working on,
too, is all these isms thatwe've grown up to believe in and
yet they don't really meananything.
Like, let go and let God theentire AA community is gonna
come and beat the crap out ofme.
But like that's one of myfavorite because what what does
that mean?
Seriously, what does it mean?
(34:09):
Release yourself fromresponsibility.
Like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'mnot gonna Yeah, don't be
disappointed, but I'm justsaying, but but it's the isms,
right?
It's all the isms, you know,like you have to forgive for
yourself.
Yeah, no, I I'm good.
I'm good, not forgiving them.
I'm good.
There's so many of those.
Um, I said one the other day,I'm sorry.
Andrea (34:29):
I have standards, damn it.
Carmen Lezeth (34:32):
I think it's I like that actually.
I never thought about it.
It is standards, isn't it?
Andrea (34:38):
I have people that I allow into my life, whether
that's actual people that I knowor like Barack Obama.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's like people would I allowinto my life, and I have a I
have boundaries, right?
I have standards.
Like, no, you you do not get tobe a part of my world.
Carmen Lezeth (35:01):
Well, I think it's kind of like you know, like
like the whole Charlie Kirkthing that you know, he was
murdered or whatever.
I think there's one thing tohave compassion for his child or
whatever, you know what I mean?
Uh clearly I don't know what'shappening with his wife and JD
Vance, but I don't know whatthat's about.
Oh no, there's something weirdhappening there, but but you
(35:23):
know, he he was murdered bysomeone that is weird and odd
and horrible and whatever.
But I'm not gonna sit here andbe like, oh, but now I'm
thinking he's a great guy orwhatever.
He was a horrible person, andhe did he did a lot of damage to
people, and it's kind of thatsame thing.
Like I can have more than onefeeling about a situation
(35:44):
because I'm a complex humanbeing that can deal with nuance
and understand the layers of howthe world works, you know?
Right.
So it's that kind of thing too.
It's like I I think when peoplesay let go and let God, first
of all, not everyone believes inGod, so let whatever it is.
When you do that, you areabsolving yourself of kind of
(36:04):
responsibility.
I never thought about it thatway, but I'm gonna use that.
That's a good one, you know?
Andrea (36:09):
Well, and I think it's this you know, I'm not to go
back to this, but it's likepeople want things to be black
and white.
It's like this or this, yes orno.
And that is not the humanexperience, particularly if you
are a thoughtful, educated,critical thinking person, right?
(36:32):
You can have a person or atopic or whatever where you have
competing ideas about it.
Like, I think this is good, butthis part of it I don't really
agree with.
But this is a, you know, I needto find out more about this,
whatever it is, you can havemultiple thoughts and feelings
about multiple different thingsand people.
(36:52):
Yeah, but if you are not aperson who is comfortable with
that, then it's like I eitherlike this or I don't.
Carmen Lezeth (37:01):
Yeah, you know, and and and that's kind of part
of the problem, too, is thatwe're just I always say nuanced,
you know, but it's also how ourpolitics has been set up.
How I mean it's dumbed down.
I mean, that's really what itis.
It's dumbed down, but it's alsolike we're so accepting, like
there's this meme that's beengoing around, and I'm not gonna
do it correctly, but this idealike you're mad at the world at
(37:25):
the person getting SNAP benefitsor the person making $8 an
hour, but you're not mad at, youknow, Jeff Bezos or any of the
big time people who don't paytaxes, who get tax benefits and
credits, and you you're they'vedone such a good job of
convincing us that the problemis all the brown and black
(37:47):
people who are running around,uh, you know, landscaping.
And they just arrested ICE justarrested a preschool teacher
yesterday.
Yeah.
Uh in front of the kids.
At the school, in front of thekids.
At the school, in front of thekids, right?
And like they've convinced youthat those are the people that
are the problem as to why yourlife isn't the way that it could
(38:08):
be.
Like, you don't understandnuance at all.
Like, you don't even understandwhat they're doing because
you're not even seeing so easilyhow rich people are just
stomping and laughing at us.
Like, just that's why that'swhy Tuesday's vote was
incredible.
Yeah, that's why it wasamazing.
Andrea (38:27):
All of the money spent.
Oh, that was awesome.
It's like just light yourmillions on fire.
Carmen Lezeth (38:35):
You know, yeah.
But here's the here's we'lljust kind of wind this down a
bit.
But the White House East Wing,like, have you noticed that's
not in the news anymore, right?
The destruction.
Because they have gone out oftheir way to make sure that all
the media doesn't keep talkingabout it because they understand
that the public is not okaywith it.
Okay, we don't like it.
(38:56):
We don't like it, so it's outof you know what else is not in
the news anymore?
Epstein files.
This is corporate America, allthe bigwigs, the people that are
financing the destruction ofthe East Wing or the building of
the ballroom, however youchoose to look at it, are
corporate America.
Corporate America is fundingall of that.
(39:19):
And then they're turning aroundand laughing at us because
they're gonna be sitting at thatdinner table.
And then we're going to have topay as taxpayers anything that
isn't covered by it and all themaintenance for it afterwards.
Our tax dollars for a ballroomwe didn't need.
Andrea (39:33):
Right.
Carmen Lezeth (39:33):
And again, where are the Epstein files?
Andrea (39:35):
I'm just wondering.
Well, and the media, which isnow corporate America.
Corporate America, completely.
Any type of real national mediais is is not you know serving
the interest of the public atthis point.
Carmen Lezeth (39:48):
No, and I keep telling people this all the
time.
Stop following networks andpapers or whatever.
Find those journalists that aredoing good work, like Jacob
Soberoff.
Is that how you say his lastname?
Soberoff.
It's such an interesting lastname, right?
Sober off.
I've never heard of it, but Ilove him.
He's so handsome too.
Love him, but like he's a greatjournalist.
(40:12):
And the reason he's aninvestigative journalist, he's
just really good and he's justso smart.
It's like I follow him.
I want to know what he's doingand what he's saying.
And the reason why I like himso much is because he also comes
with receipts all the time.
He has receipts, all the time,you know.
As a journalist, yeah.
Which is you know what it justdawned on me?
(40:32):
I can't believe I'm saying thatbecause that's what journalists
usually do.
Well, yes, they do.
Yeah, they do.
All right, cool.
Well, look at um, that was aninteresting conversation, and
it's getting more and more likeour actual phone conversations.
And like you don't seem tounderstand that you are wrong.
(40:53):
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's like I love you, butyou're always wrong, and I'm
always right.
That's what it is.
Andrea (40:58):
Yeah, we'll see.
Carmen Lezeth (41:01):
Um, all right, everyone.
Well, thank you so much forhanging out with us, and we'll
see you again next week.
And remember, at the end of theday, it really is all about the
joy.
Bye, everyone.
Thanks for stopping by.
All about the joy.
Be better and stay beautiful,folks.
Have a sweet day.
Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
This is Culture and Consequencewith Carmen and Andrea.
How are you feeling aboutyesterday?
Andrea (00:08):
Was it yesterday?
It was Tuesday.
I mean, it's been a good week,I think.
I'm just saying.
Carmen Lezeth (00:15):
Um But for people who don't know, in case they're
watching this at some othertime, we well, there was a blue
wave.
It was the election on Tuesdayacross the nation.
Andrea (00:27):
Well, only in certain places, but yeah, I mean, look,
you know, Democrats won in allkinds of places, Mississippi.
You know, I mean, Dick Cheneydied.
Carmen Lezeth (00:39):
Uh you're good.
Well, let's just let's I mean,we're gonna talk about Dick
Cheney because I think that wasthe email I sent you, right?
In the text message orwhatever.
I was like, I know that DickCheney meant a lot to you.
Andrea (00:52):
Oh, he meant a lot of things to me.
Yes, can't wait to get intothem.
Carmen Lezeth (00:58):
And I, you know, before we honor what has
happened on his passing, Iwanted to finish up.
Let me just say what I thinkabout the blue wave.
I just, I am so proud of NewYork on so many levels.
It wasn't just that, um, andI'm gonna mess up his name until
I learn it correctly, but MomDonnie uh was elected mayor of
(01:21):
uh New York.
And, you know, I was onFacebook the other day, on that
day or whatever, and I sawpeople and I I just blocked them
immediately.
So I I want to make this apublic service announcement.
Somebody wrote on Facebook, Ican't believe after 25 years
after 9-11, New York elected aMuslim.
(01:44):
Like that is racist.
So I don't understand.
Like, I don't know how peopledon't understand the simplicity
and the cruelty and thenastiness.
You know, so I I'm like justblocking people now.
I'm not even responding, butI'm just so happy for him and so
(02:04):
happy for New York.
And um, and I know it probablyhurts you to love Gavin Newsom
at this moment.
Andrea (02:12):
But he's done the right thing.
He did the right thing.
Carmen Lezeth (02:15):
That's that's all you can muster.
Andrea (02:18):
Let's say that's all I can muster.
That is all I can muster inthis moment.
Uh, he did the right thing andit worked, and so that's good.
Carmen Lezeth (02:26):
God, you really have no love for that man.
Andrea (02:28):
I do not.
We'll see.
We'll see what he does.
Um, you know, but um we wewon't go into Gavin today.
Carmen Lezeth (02:35):
Okay, we won't go into Gavin today.
I'm just very proud ofCalifornia as well.
There was nobody on the ticket,it was just a proposition.
Andrea (02:43):
It was a single thing.
Like, I was all I I didn'tactually realize it was just one
thing.
I thought it, I was like,where's my my pamphlet?
Like, what am I doing here?
And I looked at my sampleballot and I was like, Oh.
Carmen Lezeth (02:57):
I know because there have been so many times
where you and I will call eachother and be like, Who is this
judge?
Like, because we'll do all thisresearch and try to figure out,
and it's a job to vote is ajob, but it was only one thing,
and I was like, Oh, okay, great.
Andrea (03:11):
There were lines.
My husband went to go vote,yeah, you know, in our little
local area, and there were linesof people.
He's like a person, he does notlike to do mail or drop off or
whatever.
It's like his thing, which isgood for him, you know.
Yeah, and he took a picture andhe was like around the
building.
Carmen Lezeth (03:30):
It was awesome.
I mean, I think that's alsowhat made me so happy and made
me shed a tear a bit was thatyou know, that is what democracy
is about.
Like, you have to actually goand vote.
And all these people, yeah, youactually have to participate.
And I I I loathe so manypeople.
We've said this before, I sayit all the time now, but I am so
(03:52):
sick and tired of people sayingI don't do politics.
Well, it's motherfucking doingyou.
I've said that so many times.
Andrea (03:57):
Did you see Mamdani's speech where he said politics
has been doing you?
I was like meeting.
I was like, Oh my god, why doyou watch the show?
Carmen Lezeth (04:08):
So funny.
I just feel that more peopleneed to be involved.
And unfortunately, a lot ofpeople are being involved by
force.
You know, that's unfortunate.
Also, the Latino community who,you know, for what it's worth,
a lot of Latino people had votedfor that dumbass.
And, you know, you made amistake.
(04:29):
You made a huge motherfuckingmistake, but you came out in
droves and voted blue, which I'mnot gonna give you credit for
because that's the other thing Iwant to say.
We are at the beginning of thismarathon from hell.
We are not done yet.
So it was a good night, Tuesdaynight.
Andrea (04:48):
Totally.
We'll see what happens, girls.
Carmen Lezeth (04:51):
Right.
We we're not done.
Like you have to enjoy, enjoy,and then okay, the hour of
enjoyment is over.
Andrea (04:57):
One hour, and now we're like back to well, and I mean,
not to bring the room down, butlike you saw Trump had a
meltdown that night, and it waslike more, more nastiness, more
pain, and it's like it's aclassic abuser tactic, right?
Like, what's the most dangeroustime to, you know, in an
(05:18):
abusive relationship when youtry to leave, when you try to
break it off.
And so he sees oh, everybodydoesn't love me.
Everything went against me thisnight.
So, you know what I mean?
Like bring on the pain, and andI think it will be more.
I think it will be uh, youknow, next year, the midterms
(05:38):
are gonna be, you know, we aregonna have to be on the ball.
People when you say like peopleneed to get involved, like
start getting involved now,right now.
Start, you know, there areunsure everywhere across this
country.
There are already people doingcommunity organizing, there, you
know, like voter registrations,whatever it is, all you know,
(05:59):
voters.
Or just read a book or two.
Carmen Lezeth (06:04):
Like, like you're asking, like, I'm not even
asking for people to go doanything.
I just want people to read.
I was listening to someone theother day.
I I I don't want to be mean topeople because I think in the
trying, that's good.
That's a good part of it too.
But you gotta do more than justtry.
(06:24):
You gotta do more than justread the headlines, like
actually read an article andthen investigate that article
and then make sure that youunderstand what it means, you
know, like really start becominga full-fledged citizen of the
United States and understandthings.
An informed person, right?
Andrea (06:41):
Like, stop allowing people to feed you what you
believe.
Yeah, not to believe in you.
Carmen Lezeth (06:48):
No, let's just go listen to us though.
No, but you should question ustoo.
Andrea (06:54):
I would never want you to just believe anything.
I'm a total asshole.
Like, definitely question me.
Carmen Lezeth (07:01):
For real, though, it's so true.
But but I think that's whatpeople get wrapped up in, you
know.
Like, once like there were afew people that when I listen to
them, I'm like, okay, because Iknow and I've seen, and it's
been years.
Like, if they say something, Idon't have to double triple
check them.
And yet I still do, because I'msometimes so beside myself that
(07:23):
that cannot be true.
I have to just find anothercouple of sources.
Andrea (07:26):
I read something last night.
Um, it was about Chuck Schumer,which whatever, we won't go
down that road.
But I read something about andI was like, and it was from
somebody who I have a greatamount of respect for as a
journalist, as a writer, etc.
And I was like, didn't hereally say that?
Um, and I looked and it waslike, that was an interpretation
(07:51):
of what exactly he said, and itis an interpretation one could
make, but it's not what heactually meant.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
And like, again, this issomeone whose opinion I trust,
who I have read, who I follow,all of those kinds of things.
You have to be, you have to usethe critical thinking skills.
(08:12):
That's what critical thinkingis.
You read something, you hearsomething, and you critique it
in your head, and you decide,you think to yourself, is that
really true?
Maybe I should look into that alittle bit more.
Carmen Lezeth (08:23):
Or, and here's the thing
is a true interpretation.
It doesn't mean that's what wasmeant by Chuck Schumer or
whoever the person is.
So it's always good to try tofollow up and find the actual
and decide for yourself.
Andrea (08:39):
Is that you know, is that do I feel like that's an
accurate interpretation?
What do I think he meant?
You know, those like use yourbrain.
Use your brain, use it.
Carmen Lezeth (08:49):
And also, people make mistakes, people.
Like it's not even has to be sointentional, right?
It's not like everyone in themedia is trying to screw you
over for some George Soros orwhatever.
You know what I mean?
Like, I don't think thateveryone is out.
I just think we are at a pointwhere we're starting to
understand there's no such thingas objective journalism.
(09:10):
There isn't.
There never has been.
Sorry, Walter Cronkite.
There never has been, becauseeveryone has an edge or an
opinion.
Like, if I choose to tell yousomething, that's me making a
decision to tell you somethingfrom a point of view.
Right.
Or leave something out.
Or leave something out.
Exactly.
(09:31):
So it's so much more layeredand nuanced.
And if we can become betterpeople, like the the most
wonderful thing that couldhappen after this stupid ass
Trump administration would bethat we become more engaged,
smarter human beings, andunderstand our political
(09:52):
process.
But now I know that might beasking too much, but I'm just
saying that could be one of thethings that could happen by
force, but we really need to besmarter as citizens of this
country, as people who livehere, you know.
Um, but yeah, Tuesday night wasfinally like it's been so long.
Andrea (10:12):
It was it was like an inkling, I would say.
The closest maybe like, forexample, my kids who were
teenagers could get to thefeeling that we had in 2008.
Carmen Lezeth (10:27):
When Barack Obama was around.
Andrea (10:29):
Right, right.
Like, you know, I was like, isthat what is what is warming my
cold, dark, clinical heart rightnow?
Is that like the idea of thething?
Watching his speech, I was like,fuck yes, thank you.
(10:49):
Thank you for beingunapologetic.
Thank you for supportingimmigrants, trans people,
working people.
Like, thank you for being aperson.
And we know I do not do heroworship on politicians, right?
Like, but like let's actuallybelieve in something and stand
(11:10):
behind it and be our authenticselves.
Carmen Lezeth (11:12):
Okay, I'm gonna now, so I'm gonna throw a little
wrench in here.
So, because I think so.
People were talking about howKamala Harris and Jeffries and
Schumer did not back mom Donnie.
I I have to be very careful howI say because I keep messing
up, but that's right, like momDonnie.
Um, they didn't back him fullyand completely.
(11:34):
They were kind of doing thatwishy-washy thing.
Here's what I want to say.
I actually don't believe ineverything he believes in.
I am not a democraticsocialist.
I'm not.
I am I know.
Andre is.
Here's what I want to say thatI think is actually really
important is I don't have tobelieve in everything a
politician does or says.
We're human beings.
(11:55):
This idea that you have to takethe litmus test, and if you
don't check every one of myboxes, you are not worthy of my
vote.
That is the other part of thisthat drives me insane.
So people were all in thecomments, like, yeah, dismiss
all of these people who weren'tback.
And like, no, no, no, no, no.
That's not how we do this.
Because you also have toremember it's layered.
(12:17):
If Schumer, and and I'm notmaking excuses for them, but I
am justifying why.
I know for a fact they wouldn'thave full-throatedly, that's
probably a bad way to say that,right?
They wouldn't fully embracehim, is because the Democratic
Party or this side of the worldisn't completely on board and
(12:38):
they would have lost a lot ofthose base people.
Actually, I think what happenedwas so much better.
New York, this, you know, NewYork did this thing, and now
we're all like, hmm, what doesdemocratic socialists mean?
How is that different?
You know what I mean?
And take the elements of itthat we want and need, which is
being compassionate and lovingand whatever, and being
(12:59):
open-minded.
And, you know, he's going tosupposedly do all these things,
which by the way, I don't thinkhe can do them all.
He's the mayor.
So yeah, so let's bring it downa notch.
But that's kind of the otherpart of this, too, is like, I
don't want to say big tentbecause I'm so sick of that
fucking idea, but I think wehave to get to this place where
we have to stop checking boxesto allow people to become their
(13:23):
best selves in office.
Andrea (13:24):
They they can't the idea that you don't need to agree,
or we don't need to have everysingle box checked.
Um, I disagree though, withthis idea that it was somehow
better for them to not endorseJeff Schumer never endorsed and
didn't even wouldn't even say ifyou voted for him.
Um and Jeffries came out liketwo days before the election or
(13:48):
something.
I think like two hours before.
Yeah, I mean, and so my feelingabout that.
I mean, like, are thereendorsements, do they matter?
I don't know, maybe, maybe not,but um you do have to support
the people.
It's literally our point,right?
Like, he doesn't maybe checkevery box for you, Jeffries or
(14:08):
Schumer or whatever.
Um, but you do have to supportthe people who are on the
democratic ticket if you are aDemocratic.
Carmen Lezeth (14:16):
But I think that's what you're confusing.
I do think they're supportingthe Democratic ticket.
I think they're not endorsinghim so that they don't ruffle
feathers for other people.
Look at, I look at, I hateBernie Sanders.
Everyone knows I hate BernieSanders.
I'm not a big fan of AOC.
I'm not, because I'm not ademocratic socialist.
Now, I'm not saying that ifChuck Schumer jumped in and
(14:39):
said, you know, I'm for MomDonnie, I'd have been like,
absolutely not.
Do you know what I mean?
Like, I'm not saying that.
What I am saying is that thisidea that everyone has to agree
and has to show and has to jumpup and down, it doesn't have to
happen that way.
And let me just clarify what Imeant by I think it was better
it happened this way, because Ithink you missed, I misspoke.
(14:59):
But I think it's better thatNew York elected a democratic
socialist as opposed to everyonewho keeps saying Bernie Sanders
should have been president backin the day.
Do you know what I mean?
Like that was never going tohappen because the idea of
democratic socialism is such ahard thing for people to
understand in the United States.
(15:20):
So here in New York, we have aman, by the way, being a
democratic socialist is not abad thing, but people don't
understand the word socialismand they don't understand the
difference.
Let me give you a quickdefinition so you understand.
Democrats are like Clinton, um,uh Hillary Clinton, Bill
Clinton, Barack Obama, and uhKamala Harris are straight up
(15:45):
Democrats.
Democratic socialists are likeAOC, Bernie Sanders, and Mom
Dami.
Like that's a good way.
They're just very different.
There's more of a socialistbend to it.
I feel your energy.
What's happening?
Andrea (16:00):
I just think it's absolute bullshit when you have
someone that's that who is isthat charismatic, is young, has
captured the attention literallyof people around the world.
And the leadership of the partyis like, I don't think so.
Carmen Lezeth (16:15):
No, I know, but because you believe in what he's
saying, because you believe ineverything, Andrea.
That's why you wouldn't feelthat way if it was Gavin
Newsome.
Wait, wait, wait, wait.
Andrea (16:26):
You wouldn't feel that way if it was Gavin Newsome.
Gavin Newsom is not thatcharismatic and exciting and has
not captured okay.
Carmen Lezeth (16:33):
You know what's so funny?
You're absolutely this is myyou've just that's the point.
Yes, he is.
Not to you because you don'tlike him.
You know what I mean?
Like, yes, he is.
Everyone loves him.
That is my point.
Is like there again, I I hearyou, but I'm I'm going to
disagree with you, which is youknow, we can disagree, we can
agree to disagree.
But Gavin Newsom is the exactthing that you just said.
(16:58):
And I'm saying for me and forother people, it's uh it there
is a part of me, and I see theBernie part and the AOC part,
and that is not something Iagree with.
You know what I mean?
Like I don't like them, youknow.
I will support them, I willvote for them.
Andrea (17:14):
That is my point.
Carmen Lezeth (17:16):
They voted for it, but no, that's my point.
But I am not gonna sit here andpromote Bernie Sanders and AOC.
You are not a leader in theDemocratic Party.
But I understand why they'renot doing it because there are
people who do listen to them.
That's why they're the leadersof the party.
Okay.
Okay, we go and go, you knowwhat?
This is this is our phone call.
(17:37):
Okay, this is why I'd be like,bitch, enough.
No, I'm just gonna like lookit.
So let's talk about NancyPelosi because she just decided
to, at the age of 85, she isfinally going to retire.
And I can I tell you I'm notagreeing break today.
I haven't looked at the news.
Yeah, Nancy Pelosi announcedtoday that she's going to retire
(17:58):
and not run for office at theage of motherfucking 85.
I mean, they didn't saymotherfucking 85, but she's been
in office since 1987.
Look at wow, you can alreadytell how I feel about it, but
I'm like, no, no, I want her.
I I think she should haveretired 20 years ago.
Andrea (18:16):
How do you feel about it?
I don't just look, I mean, um Ithink she got us through some
rough times, right?
I mean, she was when we say 20years ago, that would erase the
Obama years.
I think it was we can thank herfor ACA, um, you know, getting
that passed.
Uh, but yeah, like honestly,beyond like 70, what are you
(18:41):
doing?
Go find some other shit to do.
Why do you need to be there?
Carmen Lezeth (18:45):
This podcast is going to be known for being
ageist.
That's just like we are theworst people in the world when
it comes to the city.
Like, I've already gotten acouple emails.
Andrea (18:54):
We talked about this before though, and it's like
these are people who are makingdecisions for the country, and
they have no under no realunderstanding of the things that
are important to people who are20, 30, 40 years younger than
(19:17):
them.
They are making decisions thatthey will never have to live
with the res the consequencesof.
Carmen Lezeth (19:22):
And and here's the thing, I'm I'm not against
them contributing and I'm notagainst them being a part of
being like the, I don't knowwhat the word would be, like uh
um elder statesman or elderstateswoman or whatever.
But I don't want you in officeafter I just think like there
needs to be, I don't know ifterm limits would be it or if it
(19:43):
would be an age thing.
I I go back to this idea thatwe demonize getting older.
So everyone holds on becausethey don't want to retire, they
don't want to be nothing, andthat's a cultural thing in the
United States where we demonizegetting older.
Um, and and and we like throwpeople away the minute they turn
(20:04):
65.
That's not what we're saying.
I just want to clear.
I did get a couple of emails onthis.
Not at all.
Andrea (20:10):
That's not a business partner is 83 years old.
Like there is a lot of wisdomand and you know, but your
business partner lets you runthe business.
Exactly.
Carmen Lezeth (20:22):
Step back and elder statesman.
That's what I'm saying.
Like you become somebody else,you know what I mean?
You become a different entitythat is more revered, more
respected.
I lost a lot of respect forNancy Pelosi.
Ironically, you're gonna jumpdown my throat now.
How she treated AOC and thewhole group that walked in the
(20:44):
door, you know what I mean?
Like, because to me, I waslike, no, this is the group,
this is the young up-and-cominggroup, and like let them, let
them take over.
But that's about a weird senseof power, too.
You know, that's a weird senseof power.
Andrea (20:59):
It's control.
I think, I think definitelywhen they're sort of in the
upper echelons of power in inany of these um institutions, or
businesses for that matter, youstart to get, they start to get
a sense of like, you know, theycan't do it without me.
You know, like I'm tooimportant in this process, and I
(21:20):
just, you know, I can't let go,they're not ready for it yet.
Carmen Lezeth (21:24):
You know, I think if we could change also the
culture about, like, I don'tknow, I'd love to be revered.
I'd like to retire and peoplebe like, Carmen, can we call
you?
Andrea (21:34):
I mean, some of these people, if they let it go
earlier, they would be morerevered than if they hold on for
this long, and literally makingenemies along the way, and
people who are like, you can'teven fucking stand up.
I don't respect you anymore.
Yeah, Diane Beinstein is agreat example.
Carmen Lezeth (21:50):
Oh my god.
I mean, I right, we loved her,and then I'm like, what is going
on in the past like 15 years?
It was just like soembarrassing.
I voted, I loved DianeFeinstein.
Andrea (22:01):
First of all, she looked like Diane Beinstein and we can
and I voted for her everysingle time she was on my
ballot.
And I'll tell you that lastvote I regretted like a mofo
because she was not there.
She was not there.
We cannot have the stakes, theyare too high at this point on
all fronts, even without Trump.
(22:22):
No, of course, of course.
In in where we are in ourcountry right now to have people
who can't make coherentdecisions, can't even be able to
do that.
Carmen Lezeth (22:35):
If you really love your country and it really
is about the people and itreally is about your service,
you wouldn't stay for that long.
But it actually takes somebodyto tell people the truth, right?
Like this is part of theproblem.
And I always think about thiswith Arlene.
I know you worked with Arleneat one point too, and I told you
the story.
(22:56):
Uh, it was this weird thingwhere she thought it was okay to
keep driving.
And she was like in her 80s,and her family, everybody was,
and this is somebody who couldafford to take an Uber, right?
Like it's not an Uber.
She had a chauffeur.
But it was, it's one of thosestories where I went in and I
just screamed at her and I madethe one comment, and I said, I
(23:19):
don't care if you drove and gotinto an accident and killed
yourself, but you would never beable to live with yourself if
you killed someone else.
And I got the keys that day.
And it's like, and and youknow, I'm not trying to make
this like a big deal, but it'slike at some point you have to
put that in front of people.
And look at I admit right nowthat as I get older and older, I
(23:41):
can't wait to retire.
I would retire now if I could,right?
Andrea (23:45):
Right.
Carmen Lezeth (23:46):
Why do you want to keep working?
I'm fucking ready, man.
I just ain't got the money.
Maybe, maybe they didn't havethe money.
Andrea (23:52):
Yeah, right.
Carmen Lezeth (23:53):
Maybe.
Maybe, maybe that's whatPayPal.
Right.
But um, but I just feel likethere they need, you know, like
I'm like all the tributes arestarting, whatever, and I'm
like, yeah, you know whatthough?
I'm angry.
And I'll I'll never forget theway in which she treated.
It's so funny because I I'm nota big fan of AOC and stuff, but
I will never forget that.
That little group, remember thegroup of um young people who
(24:15):
walked in.
Yeah, I can't remember whatthey're I can't remember all
their names, right?
Right, right, right.
I just remember being like, no,this is not the way it works.
I'm sorry, I said it's shitty,and it's almost like kind of
mean girlish, right?
Andrea (24:29):
Like, not to bring it back to, but it's like, it's not
your turn, girl, you know.
Carmen Lezeth (24:34):
And I'll decide when it's your turn.
Yeah, and I'm more importantand better than you.
And it's like, yeah, actually,no, you know what I mean?
Like, you could be someone whoteaches them stuff.
Why why can't you just mentor,right?
Yeah, yeah.
So let's talk about Dick Cheneybecause I actually, I mean, I
was kidding with you, but weboth have no respect for Dick
(24:56):
Cheney.
And I know I'll just so he diedon Monday, um November 3rd.
Was it Tuesday?
It was Monday, November 3rd at84.
I think we all heard about iton Tuesday, but he actually died
on November 3rd.
Um, and one of the quotes thatI think changed everything.
(25:17):
I mean, I I think the George W.
Bush administration, again,we've talked about this before,
set up where we're at right nowon so many levels.
But one of the quotes he wrote,uh, one of the quotes he said,
Dick Cheney, was simply stated,there is no doubt that Saddam
Hussein now has weapons of massdestruction.
And he said that in um 2002,justifying the Iraq war, and
(25:41):
later was discredited when noWMDs, weapons of mass uh
destruction were found.
His connection to Halliburton,which is this whole kind of he
was the CEO of this company thatwas just making money.
It starts this kind of takingmoney while you're in office
bullshittery.
Then the whole thing aboutnever talking about gay people,
(26:04):
never saying a word, never henever uttered a single word,
even though the Republican Partywas so against LGBTQ, was so
against uh marriage or whatever.
And then during the Kerr debatein 2004, that's when it came
out that his daughter MaryCheney was gay.
And it there was a cowardness,being a coward during that time
(26:26):
period when you could haveadvocated for gay marriage or
advocated for the rights ofpeople in the LGBTQ community,
and you didn't.
And then the last I'm gonna letyou speak.
And then the last thing I'mgonna say that I thought was
weird, and I'm not a parent, butI'm thinking I'm not a parent,
but I would think this is acheesy thing.
A lot of people were sayingwas, oh, but he raised his
(26:48):
daughter, Liz Cheney, right?
You know, because she came outand was voting for Kamala and
whatever, and I don't know,found her Jesus moment.
I have no idea.
But I was like, that can't be,you you can't be a parent who
does bad things and then rely onyour daughter to like fix your
legacy.
I have no idea, but yeah, goahead.
Andrea (27:09):
I'm sorry.
Oh, Dick Cheney was an evilmotherfucker.
Um, and that is just anobjective truth.
He was in the you know uhleadership of every Republican
(27:30):
administration from before I wasborn, which was a long ringing
time ago, um, until 2008, 2009,technically.
Um so we're talking Nixon,yeah.
Uh he was I think he was uhFord's chief of staff, you know,
(27:51):
so probably had a hand in thepardon of Nixon.
Uh Reagan, which you know, Icould spend 17 hours talking
about what an evil motherfuckerhe was, and uh HW Bush, he was
the Secretary of Defense, right?
And then uh, you know, the thewonderful W years uh were with
(28:16):
Rumsfeld, with Rumsfeld, who washis mentor, also an evil
motherfucker, yeah, um, who I'mglad is dead.
And like there is no possibleway to absolve to wipe off the
stain of the misery and deaththat this person caused around
(28:37):
the world and here in the UnitedStates.
Carmen Lezeth (28:41):
Um I don't even I can't even believe anyone would
begin to praise or honor thisthis type of well they are
because they're you know I knowbecause later in his life and
like and and he voted for KamalaHarris and he talked about that
and he I know it's but I do webelieve in forgiveness?
Andrea (29:01):
Do we believe in Andrea clearly does not, but I just
because we voted one time forone person does not wipe off all
of the evil that you didthroughout your life.
Carmen Lezeth (29:16):
I think what's more important for me is the
setup of how we're at today, andyou know, can I forgive?
Sure, whatever.
I don't forget, you know what Imean?
Like, and I don't absolvepeople of creating a space where
evil continues, you know what Imean?
If there was a way in which youstopped it, you know, again, it
(29:38):
goes back to this thing aboutcourage.
Like if you know that yourchild is gay and people are
demonizing gay people and youhave power and you decide not to
say a word or even just kind ofhave it be assumed that you
don't like gay people, I it'shard for me to.
(29:59):
Have any kind of compassion orthought process that you are a
decent human being.
I don't like cowards.
Andrea (30:08):
He wasn't a decent human being.
You know?
And yeah, he didn't like Trump.
Okay.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, I alright.
I mean, people are complex,right?
Do multiple things can be trueat the same time.
And you know, just because weagree that Trump is, you know, a
(30:32):
horrible evil stain on thiscountry, um, doesn't mean that
we wipe away all of the bad thathe did, which was a very
significant lot of bad.
Carmen Lezeth (30:44):
That again, I'm going to say, especially if you
go back, not you, but if peoplego back and just look at the
history of how it opens thisdoor, these avenues that we're
in today, widens them.
And um, you know, but this isalso thinking about people that
might be watching that are stillTrump supporters, they're not
going to make that connection,you know, because if you're
(31:05):
still supporting Trump in thisway today, you're probably not
watching our show.
So you're not watching theshow.
Andrea (31:12):
Yeah, he was a proponent of this idea of the unitary
executive, right?
Which is the executive, there'sthe three branches of power,
and executive is up here at thetop, right?
Carmen Lezeth (31:22):
Yes, he pushed for radical expansion of
presidential authority, which iswhat does that sound like?
Andrea (31:30):
You can do things like go to war without Congress's
approval.
You can do things like createenhanced interrogation
techniques, which is torture.
You know what I mean?
You can do things like open aguantanamo and have people put
there really for life with nodue process.
(31:52):
I mean, there's all kinds, andthat's just connections, right?
Carmen Lezeth (31:55):
Right?
There are connections all overthe place.
This is what's happening nowand what he did.
Andrea (31:59):
Exactly.
It's a direct thread, a linethat you can draw that's like
Dick Chaney had his hands inthis, and here's Trump.
And it's like, oh, I don't likethe way you're doing that.
I only liked it when I wasdoing that.
So I'm gonna vote for thislady.
I don't believe in anything sheactually proposes, I don't
believe in any of her policies.
And the minute I can, I willget a Republican there who
(32:22):
believes in exactly the samethings I do, but just isn't
Trump.
Carmen Lezeth (32:26):
Right.
Yeah, fuck that.
It's just an interesting thing.
And so I I mean I I really didwant to talk about it a little
bit because I thought it was umfascinating.
And I'm always fascinated byhow we revise, right?
It's always a people in powerthat revise the actual truth.
And here's something that Iknow a lot of people get upset
about.
I can hate whoever I want tohate.
Andrea (32:48):
You know what I mean?
Carmen Lezeth (32:49):
Like, I can despise whoever I want to
despise.
It's not it's not hurting mysoul, it's not making my life
cheaper, it's not, it's notdoing anything to me.
I just think that we've gotteninto this thing where, like, oh
no, you cannot hate anybody.
Yet your behavior is positivefor you.
That is, you know what it's noteating at my soul.
(33:10):
It's not eating at my soul.
Like, I love the isms thatwe've grown up and we've just
accepted.
That's one of them, right?
That people are like, um, youknow, you you have to forgive
for your no, no, I I reallydon't have to forgive anybody.
Um, but it makes you feelbetter.
I forgive, you know what Imean?
Andrea (33:27):
Like, but I don't forget.
Right.
Like I've I have people in myactual life who I'm like, yeah,
I don't need to forgive them,but I can like put them off to
the side and like live my lifehappy and joyous and whatever,
you know.
Carmen Lezeth (33:41):
No, but enjoy forgiveness is for you, it's not
for them.
Andrea (33:45):
It's actually not fine.
Carmen Lezeth (33:48):
Yeah, that's part of my book that I'm working on,
too, is all these isms thatwe've grown up to believe in and
yet they don't really meananything.
Like, let go and let God theentire AA community is gonna
come and beat the crap out ofme.
But like that's one of myfavorite because what what does
that mean?
Seriously, what does it mean?
(34:09):
Release yourself fromresponsibility.
Like, okay, I'm not gonna, I'mnot gonna Yeah, don't be
disappointed, but I'm justsaying, but but it's the isms,
right?
It's all the isms, you know,like you have to forgive for
yourself.
Yeah, no, I I'm good.
I'm good, not forgiving them.
I'm good.
There's so many of those.
Um, I said one the other day,I'm sorry.
Andrea (34:29):
I have standards, damn it.
Carmen Lezeth (34:32):
I think it's I like that actually.
I never thought about it.
It is standards, isn't it?
Andrea (34:38):
I have people that I allow into my life, whether
that's actual people that I knowor like Barack Obama.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
It's like people would I allowinto my life, and I have a I
have boundaries, right?
I have standards.
Like, no, you you do not get tobe a part of my world.
Carmen Lezeth (35:01):
Well, I think it's kind of like you know, like
like the whole Charlie Kirkthing that you know, he was
murdered or whatever.
I think there's one thing tohave compassion for his child or
whatever, you know what I mean?
Uh clearly I don't know what'shappening with his wife and JD
Vance, but I don't know whatthat's about.
Oh no, there's something weirdhappening there, but but you
(35:23):
know, he he was murdered bysomeone that is weird and odd
and horrible and whatever.
But I'm not gonna sit here andbe like, oh, but now I'm
thinking he's a great guy orwhatever.
He was a horrible person, andhe did he did a lot of damage to
people, and it's kind of thatsame thing.
Like I can have more than onefeeling about a situation
(35:44):
because I'm a complex humanbeing that can deal with nuance
and understand the layers of howthe world works, you know?
Right.
So it's that kind of thing too.
It's like I I think when peoplesay let go and let God, first
of all, not everyone believes inGod, so let whatever it is.
When you do that, you areabsolving yourself of kind of
(36:04):
responsibility.
I never thought about it thatway, but I'm gonna use that.
That's a good one, you know?
Andrea (36:09):
Well, and I think it's this you know, I'm not to go
back to this, but it's likepeople want things to be black
and white.
It's like this or this, yes orno.
And that is not the humanexperience, particularly if you
are a thoughtful, educated,critical thinking person, right?
(36:32):
You can have a person or atopic or whatever where you have
competing ideas about it.
Like, I think this is good, butthis part of it I don't really
agree with.
But this is a, you know, I needto find out more about this,
whatever it is, you can havemultiple thoughts and feelings
about multiple different thingsand people.
(36:52):
Yeah, but if you are not aperson who is comfortable with
that, then it's like I eitherlike this or I don't.
Carmen Lezeth (37:01):
Yeah, you know, and and and that's kind of part
of the problem, too, is thatwe're just I always say nuanced,
you know, but it's also how ourpolitics has been set up.
How I mean it's dumbed down.
I mean, that's really what itis.
It's dumbed down, but it's alsolike we're so accepting, like
there's this meme that's beengoing around, and I'm not gonna
do it correctly, but this idealike you're mad at the world at
(37:25):
the person getting SNAP benefitsor the person making $8 an
hour, but you're not mad at, youknow, Jeff Bezos or any of the
big time people who don't paytaxes, who get tax benefits and
credits, and you you're they'vedone such a good job of
convincing us that the problemis all the brown and black
(37:47):
people who are running around,uh, you know, landscaping.
And they just arrested ICE justarrested a preschool teacher
yesterday.
Yeah.
Uh in front of the kids.
At the school, in front of thekids.
At the school, in front of thekids, right?
And like they've convinced youthat those are the people that
are the problem as to why yourlife isn't the way that it could
(38:08):
be.
Like, you don't understandnuance at all.
Like, you don't even understandwhat they're doing because
you're not even seeing so easilyhow rich people are just
stomping and laughing at us.
Like, just that's why that'swhy Tuesday's vote was
incredible.
Yeah, that's why it wasamazing.
Andrea (38:27):
All of the money spent.
Oh, that was awesome.
It's like just light yourmillions on fire.
Carmen Lezeth (38:35):
You know, yeah.
But here's the here's we'lljust kind of wind this down a
bit.
But the White House East Wing,like, have you noticed that's
not in the news anymore, right?
The destruction.
Because they have gone out oftheir way to make sure that all
the media doesn't keep talkingabout it because they understand
that the public is not okaywith it.
Okay, we don't like it.
(38:56):
We don't like it, so it's outof you know what else is not in
the news anymore?
Epstein files.
This is corporate America, allthe bigwigs, the people that are
financing the destruction ofthe East Wing or the building of
the ballroom, however youchoose to look at it, are
corporate America.
Corporate America is fundingall of that.
(39:19):
And then they're turning aroundand laughing at us because
they're gonna be sitting at thatdinner table.
And then we're going to have topay as taxpayers anything that
isn't covered by it and all themaintenance for it afterwards.
Our tax dollars for a ballroomwe didn't need.
Andrea (39:33):
Right.
Carmen Lezeth (39:33):
And again, where are the Epstein files?
Andrea (39:35):
I'm just wondering.
Well, and the media, which isnow corporate America.
Corporate America, completely.
Any type of real national mediais is is not you know serving
the interest of the public atthis point.
Carmen Lezeth (39:48):
No, and I keep telling people this all the
time.
Stop following networks andpapers or whatever.
Find those journalists that aredoing good work, like Jacob
Soberoff.
Is that how you say his lastname?
Soberoff.
It's such an interesting lastname, right?
Sober off.
I've never heard of it, but Ilove him.
He's so handsome too.
Love him, but like he's a greatjournalist.
(40:12):
And the reason he's aninvestigative journalist, he's
just really good and he's justso smart.
It's like I follow him.
I want to know what he's doingand what he's saying.
And the reason why I like himso much is because he also comes
with receipts all the time.
He has receipts, all the time,you know.
As a journalist, yeah.
Which is you know what it justdawned on me?
(40:32):
I can't believe I'm saying thatbecause that's what journalists
usually do.
Well, yes, they do.
Yeah, they do.
All right, cool.
Well, look at um, that was aninteresting conversation, and
it's getting more and more likeour actual phone conversations.
And like you don't seem tounderstand that you are wrong.
(40:53):
Do you know what I mean?
Like it's like I love you, butyou're always wrong, and I'm
always right.
That's what it is.
Andrea (40:58):
Yeah, we'll see.
Carmen Lezeth (41:01):
Um, all right, everyone.
Well, thank you so much forhanging out with us, and we'll
see you again next week.
And remember, at the end of theday, it really is all about the
joy.
Bye, everyone.
Thanks for stopping by.
All about the joy.
Be better and stay beautiful,folks.
Have a sweet day.
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