Directing Dignity: Joel Lava on AI, Leadership, and the Politics of Conviction

Ever wonder why some leaders pull us toward our better selves while others license the worst in us? I sit down with director and activist Joel Lava for a candid, funny, and sometimes fiery conversation that moves from election reactions to what conviction really looks like under pressure. We unpack the Mamdani win in New York, the trap of demanding perfect candidates, and how media platforms reward hysteria over nuance. Joel doesn’t hold back - he names the permission structure for open racism and still argues for leadership that inspires dignity instead of mob energy.

Then we tackle a shift shaking the creative world: AI’s impact on filmmaking. Joel, a DGA Director, predicts a brutal reset for Hollywood as text-to-video tools generate studio-grade scenes in seconds. He mourns the loss of tactile, collaborative production while recognizing the upside for audiences and emerging creators. We explore what survives - taste, story judgment, leadership of tiny teams - and how artists can future-proof by building distinct voices, owning their audience, and learning to direct systems as much as people.

Along the way, we time-travel through Austin, Texas before it was a brand, swap motion graphics war stories, and talk protest design that actually lands. Joel shares a childhood moment he’d rewrite with adult boundaries, a burrito-fueled recovery strategy, and the craft sequence he studies -  shot by shot from The Martian. My own take: I’m making this show without a rigid plan because the work teaches and fuels me - editing, interviewing, lighting, and the patience to listen. The metrics are human: emails that say a mind changed, comments that push back, and a community that shows up even when it stings.

If you care about politics, culture, or the future of creative work, you’ll find perspective here - and maybe a nudge to claim your own agency. If this conversation resonates, share it with a friend, subscribe for more, and leave a review with your bold prediction for where AI and leadership take us next.

Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.

Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth


DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.

Episode Transcript

Carmen Lezeth (00:00):
Hi everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
This is our private lounge.
And today we're talking to oneof my good friends, Joel Lava.
He has been on the show quite afew times in the past couple
years.
But I thought we would justhave a little conversation with
him so you could get to know himbetter.
And uh maybe he inspired you abit.
I learned a lot about himtoday, which was weird because

(00:20):
he's been a good friend forquite a long time.
Enjoy.
No, it's okay.
You can do whatever you want,but you're such a dork guy.
You were making fun of mybackground.
Is that what you're doing?

Joel Lava (00:33):
I I was not making fun of it.
I'm merely saying now thatyou're becoming a paragon of the
podcasting industry, um, itseems like you could have a
background befitting of yourgreatness.
Whereas I'm not I'm not that.

Carmen Lezeth (00:50):
Of my greatness.
Okay.
I like how you fix that up.
So okay.
How are you feeling about lastnight, politics-wise?

Joel Lava (00:57):
Just like, you know, we went we went Clinton, W,
Obama, Trump, Biden, Trump.
It's just like this cycle ofjust like is just it's kind of
expected at this point.
We we're a country we're asick, mentally ill country of
ignorant assholes.

Carmen Lezeth (01:18):
I love that you just said that.
I was really proud of New York,though.
I was so glad that he wonMandami.
How do you say his name?
Mandani.

Joel Lava (01:25):
I follow black Twitter basically, and man, of
course you do.
So much black Twitter is likeanti-Mandani, and it's just
like, I'm just like, Jesus, man.

Carmen Lezeth (01:35):
Like the Can I just tell you that you shouldn't
even be on Twitter?
But okay.
Like I left Twitter.

Joel Lava (01:41):
I call it Black Twitter, but it's blue sky.

Carmen Lezeth (01:43):
Oh, I don't use black sky.

Joel Lava (01:45):
It's just the amount of hand-reading over this guy,
primarily over what he has saidabout Israel and any direction.
I'm like, is he running forSecretary of State?
Like, this dude's running forNew York City mayor, and then
just the hysteria over wantingto do a pilot program of a
couple free grocery stores.
Like, he's not, and you knowit's all bogus when half the

(02:09):
time they're saying this guy isgonna destroy the great city of
New York, and the other half aretime the same people are saying
this guy has no experience,he's in over his head and he's
gonna be overwhelmed.
It's like, well, which is it?
Is he so I don't know, just thehysteria over this dude is just
like oh, I was glad to see it.

Carmen Lezeth (02:26):
I I got rid of a whole bunch of Facebook people
that I saw last night sayingthings like, like, you probably
know one of these people.
Um, I don't know who he is.
Something I don't know who heis.

Joel Lava (02:38):
I know the name.

Carmen Lezeth (02:39):
He wrote something like, I can't believe
after 25 years of 9-11 New Yorkelected a Muslim.
And I was like, and you'reblocked.
I was like, I'm out.
Like, what is wrong with likehow do you not know racism?
Like, what?
Like, oh my god, yeah.
He's the son of a very famouswoman filmmaker whose name

(02:59):
escapes me at the moment.

Joel Lava (03:00):
Yeah, she didn't, uh namesake, right?

Carmen Lezeth (03:02):
She did but this she did like these three movies,
but that's what I'm saying.
Like, I it's just weird.
I don't know.
Like, what is right?

Joel Lava (03:09):
Well, that's because we're a mentally ill country and
there's become a new permissionstructure to be racist.
And I think to a certaindegree, it's nice when people
can be real and aren't hidingbehind a facade, but leadership
can take people as mob mentalityto do good or bad, and we've

(03:32):
gone past the line of justlifting a bit of the veil where
people can be more honest totaking people into a place of
hate and hysterical mobmentality, hate.
And what's we've gone way pastthe facade line of honesty, and
people are just like a goodleader inspires our better,
better angels, and that is notwhat leadership is doing now,

(03:52):
and people are being stirred up,just like in I'm not saying to
the extreme of Nazi Germany, butthose same Germans who got
swept up into this like kill theimpure people, literally 20
years later, are the mostprogressive country, you know.

Carmen Lezeth (04:07):
Like people are Germany is for sure.

Joel Lava (04:08):
I'm an anthropologist, like people at
the base level are all the same,um, despite our ethnicity and
culture, we're all driven by thesame bond of humanity, and that
can be taken by we all humanitylooks to a leader.
Most humanity wants to follow.
And a a leader can take us intoa place of great goodness or it

(04:30):
can take us to a bad place.
And anyway.

Carmen Lezeth (04:33):
Who who would be somebody that you would say is a
good leader in like the past 30years that you would say did a
good job of leading anywhere inthe world?

Joel Lava (04:46):
Well, you mean in any sector or in politics?

Carmen Lezeth (04:49):
Just as an example.
Yeah, as an example of what youjust said, because I think that
was kind of profound.

Joel Lava (04:54):
Um, I think the easy answer is Obama.
I don't think I think Biden wasa better, got more done in two
years than Obama did in eight.
But Obama definitely appealedto our better angels.
I mean, Obama is the perfectexample of there's so many think
tanks and pundits and hiredconsultants about what a
Democrat needs to say.

(05:15):
And part of my whole spiel, youknow, I make all my videos is
it really doesn't matter whatthey say.
It's that whatever they say,they believe it, they stand on
their courage or theirconvictions.
So uh the Democratic Partycould easily be led by a
conservative moderate or by aprogressive liberal.
Either is totally possible ifthat person is charismatic,

(05:36):
strong, and doesn't back downand throws counterpunches.
Because Democrats are good atthrowing a single punch, and
then when they get punched back,they're like, oh, it hurts when
I get in a fight.

Carmen Lezeth (05:46):
I know you get really annoyed at at politicians
who don't fight back.
So are you loving Gavin Newsomor do you think he's gonna be
able to do that?

Joel Lava (05:54):
Gavin Newsom's interesting because man, it's
like I've he's got that smarmy,just physically, he's smarmy.

Carmen Lezeth (06:01):
Yeah.

Joel Lava (06:01):
Um, I have a friend from college.

Carmen Lezeth (06:03):
Wait, wait, wait, you say smarmy, and most women
are like, yum, look at that.

Joel Lava (06:08):
No, like that slick, greasy, like snake oil salesman
kind of.
That's just physically histraits.
And I have a friend fromcollege who kind of came off
that way, and it was I like assomeone with like a monotone
voice, etc.
Like, my friend in college wasjust that was just his his way.
Like, physically, that's how hesounded.
And when you got to know him,you knew he was like this

(06:29):
genuine, really.
So I I think Newsom, man, he'sjust got you're running the
fourth largest economy in theworld.
Peep you're just gonna be somuch that people pick at you.
Like, people, a lot of liberalsgo at him because of his stance
on trans issues isn'tprogressive enough.
And then, of course, there'sthe homeless problem, and then
our education's not the best.

(06:50):
Um, but then there's so muchreally good stuff in California.
But um, as far as like a chanceto run for president, I don't
know, man.
The whole just the homelessnessthing and crime.

Carmen Lezeth (07:01):
Well, look at this is where I kind of argue
with people about Gavin Newsom.
It's the same thing they didwith Barack Obama, is this kind
of idea that everybody's perfectand can fix everything in one
moment.
The homeless problem is notcompletely Gavin Newsom's fault.
He inherited it.
I'm saying it's like everythingis being, you know, like having
what what I hate about theDemocratic Party, and you know I

(07:23):
left the Democratic Party, isthis idea that everybody has to
be perfect.
Everybody has to be perfect,and they have to, you know,
every box has to be checked.
And that's why I'm so proud ofwhat happened in New York.
You know, I don't agree with95% of probably what um the
newly elected mayor agrees with.
I really don't.

(07:44):
But I I was for him 100%.
And if I lived and was aresident of New York, I would
have voted for him becausethat's what we need.
Young people, smart people.
They may not do it, like it maynot check every box I believe
in, but I know that it like whatyou said earlier.
You know, he has thisconviction, he believes it.

Joel Lava (08:03):
And I that's why I think that kind of is the reason
I'm most excited for Mandani,too, is because he doesn't check
every box.

Carmen Lezeth (08:11):
Right.

Joel Lava (08:12):
He literally is charismatic, he stands on the
current of his convictions, hedoesn't, he doesn't back down
and equivocate and capitulate.
He's like, this is where I'mat.
And not only am I saying, hedoesn't even say this is where
I'm at, take it or leave it,he's like, this is where I'm at,
and I love where I'm at becauseI think this is the best way,
and I'm passionately excitedabout what I believe.
Not like, well, but likeMuslim, I'm not blaming him for

(08:35):
the homelessness, but I'm sayingon a national race, he would
get tarred with so many negativetraits, whereas Obama was a
blank slate, for better or forworse.

Carmen Lezeth (08:45):
Oh my God.
You know, I say this with love.
You guys really, and I say youguys, uh, I I am shook at how
much you guys revise what youremember of Barack Obama running
that race.
I remember it like it wasyesterday.
I do too.
It was not a blank slate.
Are you out of your mind?
Oh my God.

Joel Lava (09:04):
What do you mean he was?
He had no legislativeaccomplishments.

Carmen Lezeth (09:08):
But it that that's not what I thought you
meant by blank slate.
He wasn't, it wasn't a okay.
I thought you meant like therewas no issues whatsoever with
him.
Oh my god, they were goingafter him every five seconds.

Joel Lava (09:19):
No, no, yeah.
No, he was a he was a blackterrorist with a Muslim, right?

Carmen Lezeth (09:24):
And he was like, No, that's what I told my kids.

Joel Lava (09:27):
I tell my kids if you want to understand how bad 2008
was as a country, we werewilling to, instead of electing
a white war hero, we're willingto elect a black Muslim
terrorist.
That's how he's not.

Carmen Lezeth (09:40):
For the people who are watching this, he is
not.

Joel Lava (09:44):
That was the fear.

Carmen Lezeth (09:45):
That was the fear of the well, that's what that's
what they put on him.
That's what the Republican, theconservative legislatively.
Okay, got it.
I'm so sorry.
I apologize.
Um, I I actually love thisconversation, even though I
didn't really want to talk aboutpolitics with you, but you grew
up in Texas.
Um, sorry about that.
Uh do you do you miss Texas?

(10:08):
Do you how do you feel aboutyour state in comparison to
California?

Joel Lava (10:13):
Well, it's funny, I didn't make a video on this too.
Um I didn't see it.
I miss Texas uh somemetaphorically and literally.
Um I grew up in a completelydifferent Texas.
I grew up in a Texas withDemocratic governors and
Democratic senators andDemocratic House of
Representatives.
Barbara Jordan was the firstblack uh representative.
Um and I grew up in Austin,which was, you know, yeah.

Carmen Lezeth (10:37):
So the coolest place in Texas.

Joel Lava (10:39):
Yeah, it's where you know I grew up in the Richard
Link later slacker Austin.
And I grew up in the Austinthat hadn't had its coolness
commodified yet, like the Southby Southwest and the music scene
and the film scene and thehipster scene.
That was all just what it was.
And as soon as I go, I went offto college and I came back and
we land at the airport, and it'slike keep Austin weird, and

(11:00):
like all this like officialcampaigns of it was like it had
been taken away.
And now I go back to Austin andthere's a little smog and
there's traffic, and there'splaces I used to drive by that
were like forests are now justyou know strip malls, and it's
just not the same city anymore.
And obviously, tragically, justhealthcare, education,

(11:24):
politics, you know, is just it'sinsane.
It's just it's like freakingit's literally the closest thing
to Afghanistan.
I don't know, man.
It's like Wait, what?

Carmen Lezeth (11:34):
Why are you exaggerating like that?

Joel Lava (11:38):
Like their adherence to like the abortion and their
their bounty laws about findingsomeone who getting people to
report on other people drivingover state lines to get an
abortion, like just the mostcrazy extreme stuff.
And I didn't know that.

Carmen Lezeth (11:53):
Are you for real?

Joel Lava (11:55):
Yeah, that was the bounty law.
That was like under when Bidenwas president.

Carmen Lezeth (11:58):
Oh my god.

Joel Lava (12:00):
So yeah, uh, Texas was amazing, and I grew up in a
Texas is truly the independentspirit.
It's the only state in thecountry that was its own country
uh in 1836.
You take, you know, we takeseventh grade uh Texas history.
Um, that's where the six flagscomes from, the theme park,
because Texas has lived undersix flags.

(12:22):
Uh I I can name them for you ifyou want, but um it's that
independent streak also, evenwhen it came to like the
Confederacy, uh this is where Iwas ignorant as a kid.
Like I really thought it wasstates' rights when I was a kid,
because in Texas, Texas is allabout like there were secession
movements when I was a kid, theynever went anywhere.

(12:43):
But Texas literally isheritage, is we were our own
republic.
We don't need the rest of thisfucking country, and there's
like this badass, cool cowboything that goes along with it.
And there are people who aredaughters of the Confederacy
when I was a kid, and I justthought that was the same as
daughters of the revolution, butI now see it differently.
But just growing up there,there's like this cool

(13:04):
independent, like fuck you, wedon't need anyone else's spirit,
and it was democratic.
So it was a great place to growup, um, but not so great.
My daughter doesn't ever wantto set foot there.

Carmen Lezeth (13:17):
I agree with your daughter.
I I've been there like, I don'tknow, maybe 10 times, and I I
have no interest in my friendswho live there.

Joel Lava (13:24):
Texas and Florida to me are like I sadly my friends I
grew up with there are you knownot wanting to be there.
And what's also interesting isgrowing up in Austin, as like a
high schooler, I was really notinvolved, but very aware of like
local politics, like mayorallevel city council politics and
a little state, but not a lot ofnational.
And it's really interestingbecause that's actually cool.

(13:47):
Yeah, I was the state capitaland this Austin City, and my
buddy from high school is nowthe county judge, which is
basically more powerful than themayor.
But now that I'm an adult and Ilive in California, I couldn't
tell you anything about Burbankor LA politics, and I put know
very little about California,and I'm like all about national

(14:08):
politics, but that's also areflection of the times we live
in where it's I was just gonnasay that isn't uh, but you do
know who represents you inCongress, though, right?
I do.
I'm thinking of running againsther.

Carmen Lezeth (14:18):
Are you really?
Are you gonna get intopolitics?

Joel Lava (14:21):
I've just been playing with it because I'm so
upset.
Joel! No, I'm a single-issueguy, though, because she's
actually it's Laura Friedman.
She's actually by all accountsgood, but she's part of just the
old 20th century styletechnocrat who isn't like I
want, I'm just my one of mythings that gets me really angry
right now is and I have aletter, I don't have it around,

(14:42):
but I wrote her a letter sayingevery day uh our president
commits multiple impeachableoffenses, and all you leaders do
is report on it.
Like all these speeches by ourdemocratic leaders saying he is
breaking the constitution andhe's criminally, he's taking
bribes, and they say all this,and then they I'm like, cool.
I didn't elect you to be areporter.

(15:04):
I I have reporters who tell methis.
Like, what are you doing?
And that the only way to stopour president is through
impeachment.
And I know Congress can't do itbecause of the blah blah blah,
but if you're not even callingfor it, we don't have any power.
That's what you've got to callfor it.
You need to be filing articlesof impeachment every day, or
else what's what are you doing?
That's like, and so it thatdrives me nuts.

(15:25):
So I want to run, if only justto highlight that thing.

Carmen Lezeth (15:29):
But I can't believe you would want to run.
I find that well, I don't.

Joel Lava (15:33):
I've never have, but I'm very angry.
As you know, I'm verypolitically active and I'm out
in the streets every week.

Carmen Lezeth (15:39):
And so I'm very activated, and I've just but
you've always been veryactivated in politics.
You supported Joe Biden's run.

Joel Lava (15:48):
I've been making political videos since the late
90s.

Carmen Lezeth (15:51):
Yeah, you've always been.
How does that it's so funnybecause you're part of
Hollywood, right?
You're a director and well, no,no, but but you are.
You work in the industry, andso many more people are afraid
of ever showing their personalside.
I mean, does it ever conflictwith you getting a job at all?

Joel Lava (16:08):
Or I mean, I my career is basically
non-existent, so you could argueit hasn't helped.

Carmen Lezeth (16:14):
Do you think it's because of that or because of
AI?

Joel Lava (16:17):
Oh, I I think it's because of a variety of reasons.
Really?
I mean, I've been I'm justtelling you what I was told.
Don't freak out on me.

Carmen Lezeth (16:28):
I'm not gonna freak out.

Joel Lava (16:29):
I was told if with my real, you know, my portfolio of
work, of commercials and musicvideos and promos, that if I was
a 30-year-old black woman, Iwould be a millionaire.
But because I'm a middle-agedwhite guy, I will not get hired.

Carmen Lezeth (16:43):
Why do you think I would yell at you about that?

Joel Lava (16:45):
Because it's a racial thing and that's what's
happening.
I'm saying that's one aspect.
I got the industry is dying.
Like, as I've been predictingHollywood changing.
Dying.
Like I've been pr since 2023,I've been predicting in 2027
pretty much no Hollywood willexist.

(17:06):
Except for like autour specificthings.
Like AI is gonna completelywipe out Hollywood.

Carmen Lezeth (17:12):
But you love AI, you're one of the first people I
saw using AI.

Joel Lava (17:16):
I I uh Or now you don't?
I have cultivated a perceptionthat I'm into AI.

Carmen Lezeth (17:23):
I love how you just said that.
What does that mean?

Joel Lava (17:26):
Well, I like being on set with actors and art
directors and set decorators andall that.

Carmen Lezeth (17:32):
I uh but you're learning AI so that like I mean,
you were using AI for a while.
Am I crazy?

Joel Lava (17:37):
Well, I'm using AI, but it's like there's just no
thrill in just like writing sometext prompts and then waiting.
Like, and anyone can do it.
Like my skills and what I havein here are pretty much no
longer necessary.
And that was very, verydepressing.
That happened earlier this yearwhen Google Vio came out.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah.

Joel Lava (17:56):
Because I saw someone create a chat GPT script that's
basically like a mad libs whereit's a questionnaire.
What genre do you want?
How many characters, blah,blah, blah?
What location, what lightingstyle?
And then it just spit outliterally a Hollywood production
level scene of like a dude inthe wilderness walking through
the snow, and then he goes intoan old cabin, and all the camera

(18:18):
angles are cool, and thelighting is and it looks real.
So I'm and like I got into adebate with my friend who's in
he edits television, and I wassaying it's gonna be over in
2027, and like I was like, Idon't like the term AI slop
because it blows me away whatpeople call slop.
And he's like, like to create afake person talking in a scene

(18:40):
before AI would take a team ofpeople weeks, and it would still
have that uncanny valley.
Now, that exact same scene thatwould take highest level
professionals weeks is literallybeing done with a text prompt
in like five seconds, and thatis so mind-blowing when for
people call it slop, or myeditor friend who really he's

(19:01):
great and he studies performanceand how things tie together.
He's like, Yeah, but theperformances are just they're
not I'm like, dude, we're lookwhere we were a year ago.

Carmen Lezeth (19:11):
I think people are are are using that as like a
way to make themselves feelbetter, like, oh, there's
deadness in the eyes.
And I'm like, I just believedwhat I just saw.

Joel Lava (19:24):
I also I also point out to like King Kong in 1927,
yes, you know, the Ray HarryHall.
Yeah, but the audiences atethat up, or just go back and
watch a movie from the 1980s,like a VFX, like you watch it
now, and you're like, oh, that'slike some weird VFX.
Right.

Carmen Lezeth (19:41):
Like you can watch any of the Star Wars, the
first ones, you know what Imean?

Joel Lava (19:45):
That up and like we accept it.
And if if we go see anythingnow, but see, now we're not
gonna go to theaters.
We're like some 14-year-old inhis bedroom is gonna output a
feature film that he that tookhim like two weeks to make, and
it's gonna become viral, andthere'll be a couple things in
it where like, oh, yeah, thatwas AI, but we're gonna overlook

(20:05):
it, and that's that.
And it's a game, that's why Ithink Hollywood's gonna be the
next coal industry.

Carmen Lezeth (20:10):
So, so what do you think?
You think it's gonna wow, youso you're seeing it on the
negative end of it.

Joel Lava (20:16):
Do you not see it's negative for me, not for
humanity?

Carmen Lezeth (20:20):
So, what are you planning to do?

Joel Lava (20:23):
So, what do you I don't have any other skill?
I have really good managementskills.
I'm really good at managingteams of people, and I and I'm
talking teams of sensitiveartists, so I could easily
manage any other industry, but Idon't know.
I've looked into like becomingan ER nurse, but that takes two
years to train, and I don't havetwo years of no income.

(20:43):
So, but I I've been pretty lazyabout it because I I honestly
think this is coming.
I think there's the wholecommercial world is gonna have
no more suits.
Why would a brand that has amillion dollars to spend on
marketing buy two commercialsfor 500,000 when it can get 95%
of the quality for 50,000 andthen it has another 900,000 left

(21:06):
to micro-target across socialmedia platforms?
We're already seeing it.

Carmen Lezeth (21:09):
Like why wouldn't you see that your skills could
be and don't don't get mad atme, but like that your skills
could be used with AI and youcould I do, but I think it's
gonna be a drastically reducednumber.

Joel Lava (21:22):
Anyone can pick up a pencil and write or type on a
keyboard, but they don't do it.
They still hire writers, youknow?
Like there's still gonna bepeople needed to execute these
things in the in volume.
It's just we're not gonna needlocation scouts or casting or
grips, or we don't VFX industryis completely gone.

(21:43):
Why couldn't you be aconsultant to an AI world that
is going to be first of all, youhave a lot of successful
working directors already whocould easily just port to
overseeing a team of three textprompters, and so it's just
gonna be even more competitive.
And so the chances of me Ithink the real I think the real
I'm just asking.

Carmen Lezeth (22:02):
I'm just I mean, look at we're we're all thinking
of these things.

Joel Lava (22:05):
I'm saying it's all gonna be just gone, and there's
just gonna be a few people left,and that's those few people are
gonna be ultra competitive.
And I I actually think one ofthe ways to set a person's self
apart is to be one of thoseself-creators who make their own
content.
And I just don't, because Ihave kids and I'm working, I
don't have time, and I'm uh andthe free time I do have, I'm

(22:27):
putting into politics andactivism.
I it's just I gotta tell you,it's just not you remember like
the desktop revolution when weused to have graphic designers
in a studio with tables andcomes saying a lot of old school
graphic designers like I'm notsitting at a computer, like I
have to use my hands, I have tobe tactile to create the true
art.
And it's like, okay, sorry,feel that way.

(22:49):
Bye.
Right now it's like I like todo via I like to make CG stuff
and I like, but I love to be onset.
And just I'm telling you, justthe the human experiential
process of just sitting thereand writing a text prompt and
then waiting for it to come out,and then hmm, that's not quite
right.
Let me adjust this word, andthen like that is a completely

(23:10):
totally that's like with fishriding a bicycle.
It's like a completelydifferent process of what I've
spent my life doing andenjoying.
So it's like the motivation tosit in a computer and just type
that phrase, hmm, let me alterthat word from yellow to beige,
and then and then I'm justsitting there like looking at my
wall.
It's like I feel dead inside.
That's why I'm not like superexcited about it.

Carmen Lezeth (23:33):
No, I and I'm just asking because I I'm
curious what people because Iknow you don't reject AI in
general.
You've used it, I've seen stuffthat you've done with it.
So it's just interesting tohear you say that for humanity
it's not a bad thing, but foryou personally it is.

Joel Lava (23:48):
For the for the filmmaking industry, it's a
complete uh extinction levelevent, but for humanity, it's
democratized.
It means everyone.
I mean, I truly believe likethe Black Mirror idea, like not
next year, but there's gonna bea point where you sit down on
Netflix and you bring up a thingand you're like, or you just
talk into your Netflix, yourremote, and you just say, I want

(24:09):
to watch a movie starring uhScarlett Johansson and John
Wayne taking place on the moon,and it's an action comedy that's
a minute, an hour, 45 minutes,and uh it's as if it's directed
by Spielberg and DP'd by JaniceKamaninsky.

Carmen Lezeth (24:25):
Wow, that's so weird, all these names.

Joel Lava (24:27):
No, and you're gonna be like, okay, and let me watch
it.
And then it's like there's aprogress bar, and then 10
seconds later you start watchingyour film because it writes the
script and then just startsrendering it.
That's already that's alreadytechnology.

Carmen Lezeth (24:38):
That's already happening, yeah.

Joel Lava (24:40):
So why why and then I get the joy of like I made
this, I made this, like this isonly happening because of me,
these variables, and then I feelit's ownership and this
giddiness.
And that's great for humanity,it's just bad for the Hollywood
uh industry.

Carmen Lezeth (24:59):
Yeah, I don't know if I think Hollywood's
dying.
I might disagree with youthere.
I think it's changing, I thinkit's gonna be something
different.
I don't know what it turnsinto, but I I don't like that
you might be right.
But that tends to be how weusually interact anyway.
Wait, we should first tellpeople we worked for a company
that did motion graphics, right?

(25:19):
And not action.

Joel Lava (25:22):
There was once a company called Fuel.
This is in the year 2000.
It was the dawn of the motiongraphics golden age, where money
was flowing and ideas wereflowing, and anything went and
uh and social mores were muchlooser.
And then this one company brokeup into like five different

(25:42):
highly successful influentialmotion graphics companies when
each person left to start theirown company.
One of them was run by a then23-year-old.

Carmen Lezeth (25:51):
We don't need to say his name, but I'll bleep it
out.
It's okay, yeah.
But 23-year-old, right?
Was he 23 years old?
I guess he was that young.
Yeah.

Joel Lava (26:01):
So we met, yeah.

Carmen Lezeth (26:02):
And uh I don't remember actually meeting you
though.

Joel Lava (26:05):
Well, I don't remember.
I don't remember the moment Ishook your hand.

Carmen Lezeth (26:09):
I don't think we shook hands.
But I were you at the originaloffice in Abbott Kenny?

Joel Lava (26:14):
Yes.

Carmen Lezeth (26:15):
Wow.
Okay.

Joel Lava (26:17):
I was freelanced, but yes.

Carmen Lezeth (26:18):
Yeah, no, you were always freelance.
You never took him up on anyoffers or whatever, right?
Um yeah, that's interesting.
Yeah, no, so I was just askingabout that.
I was just uh because you know,people I always like people to
know how I meet.

Joel Lava (26:31):
And I think we I think we probably hit it off a
little bit more than the nextguy because I was technically
old because I was 28.

Speaker 2 (26:40):
You were old.

Joel Lava (26:41):
And so we you there was like there was a clear
difference in my vibe than fromall these like 22, 23-year-olds.

Carmen Lezeth (26:48):
Yeah, because I think I was more, I mean, I was
like the mother of the office.
There weren't that many women.
It was like me and Angela.
I like when I showed up, Angelawas the only other woman girl
in the office.
You know what I mean?
And so I think that was a bigdeal.
But I was also uh pretty quietbecause I was pretty busy.
Because once he fired some guy,um, I took over and so I had to

(27:10):
learn it all really quick.
But so for that it was a goodexperience.
But I I remember you more fromum yeah, because all the girls
used to talk about you all thetime.

Joel Lava (27:21):
So all the people that we know that's not true
because you literally just saidthere were no women in the
world.

Carmen Lezeth (27:25):
I know, but there were because then we had so
young, like once we startedhiring people.
So and when we moved over toEuclid, we did have more people.
But you were like a shy guy,even at brand new school, like
Joel.
Oh my god.
So you think okay, so how didyou react to that situation
then?

Joel Lava (27:43):
I enjoyed it.

Carmen Lezeth (27:44):
What do you mean you enjoyed it?
So you went out with them, youtook up dates.

Joel Lava (27:48):
I actually regret not going out with some of them
because I was so focused on justhaving a job.

Carmen Lezeth (27:53):
That's my point.
Like you're that's exactly mypoint.

Joel Lava (27:56):
You were I didn't want to be unprofessional and
get fired.

Carmen Lezeth (28:00):
I know, but that's my point.
Other people would take therisk and do it, and they have.

Joel Lava (28:04):
Well, I wasn't shy, I just uh didn't get fired.

Carmen Lezeth (28:07):
I don't think you realize that you come across as
being very shy and very quiet.
At least back in the day, youdo.
You came across that way.
But you seem to describe itmore as maturity and
professionalism.
So that's fair.
You know, I I thought no one inthat office was very
professional.
I spent a lot of my time um atthat first company that we met

(28:29):
at, um, putting out firesconsistently on a regular basis.
Not that that was supposed tobe my job, but that so many
people, you know, it's so funnyhow you described it earlier,
you know, like, but to me it wasan unhinged place that didn't
understand professionalism anddidn't understand how easily
certain people could be sued forsaying certain things.

(28:50):
And I think I talked to youabout that before about keyword
being thrown around and womenbeing treated.
Do you remember there was abachelor party that was held at
the do you remember that at theEuclid phase?

Joel Lava (29:05):
I I'm agreeing with you that I was I was professor.

Carmen Lezeth (29:08):
They brought in strippers.
Let me just tell you, theybrought in a stripper who was
dripping a lot, and I had topull one of the few women who
was dancing with her as the guyswere egging them on.
You you just showed me apicture of one of the women I'm
talking about.
I had to pull her away and say,absolutely not, and throw her

(29:31):
into my office.

Joel Lava (29:32):
What was she gonna do?

Carmen Lezeth (29:33):
She was dancing with the stripper, a the woman
stripper, as the guy, and I waslike disrobing for I have no, I
didn't let it happen.
I mean, it was an unhingedplace.

Joel Lava (29:45):
Yeah.
Um I was not part of all thatbecause I was professional.

Carmen Lezeth (29:49):
I don't think you would, I I don't remember who
was there.
I know who it was for.

Joel Lava (29:53):
I'm saying just anything like that.
Again, if you want to call itshy or whatnot, I just would
limit my vocabulary and whatnot.

Carmen Lezeth (30:00):
Um no, I'm saying that's how it came across, is
if you were shy and kind of butI like what you said.

Joel Lava (30:06):
It was not a professional place.

Carmen Lezeth (30:08):
It was not a professional place at all.
And it never became aprofessional place.

Joel Lava (30:12):
And I mean at that time that suited it very well
creatively as well.

Carmen Lezeth (30:17):
And it was doing well.
I mean, it was uh it wasdefinitely bringing in so much
money, right?
We were bringing in tons ofmoney at that point, and it was
but for people like me, um yeah,I learned a lot.
I learned a lot because of thatsituation, but I also don't
think you need to learn a lotthrough harm or through

(30:38):
negativity or through badexperiences.
I don't think that's the way ithas to be, you know, but I did
gain that from that.
But um, but yeah, I I thinkthat's why I don't talk to so
many people from there at all.
I I don't have much respect fora lot of people that worked
there and participated in a lotof, even though I think a lot of
people were geniuses in theirown right.

(30:58):
You know what I mean?
But I yeah.
And if I could do it all overagain, I would have never taken
the job.
I thought of that the otherday.
I would have walked away.
I wish I had, because I thinkum I still have a bitter taste
in my mouth about that place,which is weird, right?
I don't know.
Um, okay, I have some otherquestions.
I did not know, and you'redon't be mad at me.

(31:20):
I did not know how many awardsyou've won because of your I
didn't realize you won Emmys.
When did that happen?
Was I around?

Joel Lava (31:30):
No, no, I I won most of no one I won the Emmy in like
2018.

Carmen Lezeth (31:36):
Oh, so it was way after the fact.
Okay.
I didn't, I wasn't in touchwith you.
I was like, I don't rememberthat happening.
Let me see.
You've been a director andcreative director for over 20
years.
You're here in California, yourbackground is in animation and
visual effects with a strongemphasis on storytelling through
motion graphics.
Oh no, motion design, sorry.
You've won Emmy's Telly's, Fwhat's FWA?

(31:57):
That's a word you've beenfeatured on South by Southwest.
What?

Joel Lava (32:01):
FWA is more web-based, like microsite, like
the web award.

Carmen Lezeth (32:05):
Um, you describe yourself as thriving at the
intersection of story, motiondesign, and visual effects.
Is that true?

Joel Lava (32:13):
Yeah, it's freaking true as fuck.

Carmen Lezeth (32:16):
Okay, we'll talk about.
Um, you love leading teams bothon live action sets and in
post-production, but you justsaid that.
Um, are you known for sayingwhen in doubt, flare it out?
What does that mean?

Joel Lava (32:29):
Uh that means like if when is for motion graphics and
compositing, if something's notquite looking right, just add a
flair.
You know, like a JJ Abramsflair.

Carmen Lezeth (32:38):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.

Joel Lava (32:39):
And it just gives it that extra.

Carmen Lezeth (32:42):
Okay, got it.
Always have a joke book handy?
No.
Is that true?
Oh no.
What's your favorite joke?
Which favorite?
You have to read it?
Okay.

Joel Lava (32:57):
It's a joke book.
A man goes to a psychiatristand says, Doc, my brother's
crazy.
He thinks he's a chicken.
The doctor says, Why don't youturn him in?
The guy says, We would, but weneed the eggs.

Carmen Lezeth (33:08):
See, those are dorky things.
Okay.

Joel Lava (33:10):
I have some really go, I have some go-to jokes that
have served me well in life.

Carmen Lezeth (33:15):
That's okay.
I'm good.
I'm good.

Joel Lava (33:17):
No, but I have like, depending on the audience, I
have some really good ones thatwill win people over.

Carmen Lezeth (33:24):
But you've already won me over, so does it
really matter?
Okay, looky.
I love this.
I love that you say this.
We are all interns.
I do love that.
Yeah.
Is that something you say or nottrue?
This is a Google search.

Joel Lava (33:37):
Well, I mean, it's a good that's my mode.
You're reading my link, you'rereading my LinkedIn profile.

Carmen Lezeth (33:42):
I'm not, they are.

Joel Lava (33:43):
I I would I no, it just means remember be humble.

Carmen Lezeth (33:47):
No, I love that.
That's my favorite.

Joel Lava (33:50):
And it also means we're all if if we're and not
just creatively, but in any lineof life, we should always
strive to be learning.
And if we're always learningsomething, that means we're
always taking on something we'reignorant about, which means and
if we're always pursuingknowledge, then we're always an
intern in some aspect of ourlife.

Carmen Lezeth (34:11):
I love it.
I think it's a simple line witha lot of depth.
That should be a signatureline.
Okay, you ready for some I'mready.
For some lightning roundquestions.

Joel Lava (34:22):
I love lightning round.

Carmen Lezeth (34:24):
Okay.
I don't have that many though.
I just did like all right.
What's your favorite?
Wait.

Joel Lava (34:29):
Lightning.

Carmen Lezeth (34:30):
Okay, you're such a dork.
I think that's what I love aboutyou.

Joel Lava (34:33):
You are such a dork.
Lightning round.

Carmen Lezeth (34:36):
Yeah.
I just want you to know thatwhen I edit, I'll be deleting
all of that.

Joel Lava (34:39):
Oh no, that was amazing.
I'm just kidding.

Carmen Lezeth (34:44):
Seriously.
Okay.
What's your favorite curseword?

Joel Lava (34:50):
I mean, fuck.

Carmen Lezeth (34:52):
Okay.
What's a film you wish youdirected?

Joel Lava (34:56):
Oh.
That's a interesting way youphrase it because there's my
favorite movies, but I I didn'twish I directed it.
I can tell you the movie Imovies I want to direct that I
won't.
That's easier, but Okay.

Carmen Lezeth (35:10):
I don't even know what that means.

Joel Lava (35:12):
It means I want to do a sequel spin-off to Back to
the Future, where it happens nowand goes back to like 95,
basically, right as the internetis starting.

Carmen Lezeth (35:23):
Oh, that's a great idea.

Joel Lava (35:25):
And it's a 90s, so you can bring in like all the
90s grunge and just compare thementality of the you know Yahoo
and pets.com and just that worldof the late 90s, and no concept
of what an iPhone is, or yeah,they still had glasses.

Carmen Lezeth (35:41):
Didn't we have pagers and stuff?

Joel Lava (35:43):
Like yeah, we had barely had pagers.
We had pagers barely had cellphones.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah.

Joel Lava (35:48):
Like that was back.
I was a PA in the late 90s, andwe would charge on our invoice
how many minutes of cell phonetime we used to get ready.

Speaker 2 (35:57):
That's so weird.

Joel Lava (35:58):
And it's like the it was pre-9-11.
Yeah, like security atairports.
Like there's all this stuffthat like a kid from now, like
Marty McFly's grandson orwhatever.
So that's that's like one movieI would love to make direct.
And I I have another one thatactually I love so much.
I'm not gonna say publicly.

Carmen Lezeth (36:16):
Okay, fair.

Joel Lava (36:17):
I think I've told it to you privately, but yeah,
that's okay.

Carmen Lezeth (36:19):
I won't share it.

Joel Lava (36:20):
There are some movies like I would have loved to
direct um the eighth episode ofStar Wars, the one that
completely went off the rails.

Carmen Lezeth (36:29):
I'm not a Star Wars person, so there's your
answer.
I would have liked to do uh Isaw the first three, the
original first three, and then Isaw the one I saw the one with
Harrison Ford and you know whenhe's older, yeah, and Layout.

Joel Lava (36:45):
That was the Force Awakens.
I would have liked to directthe one after that.
That's it.
Okay, yeah.

Carmen Lezeth (36:49):
I didn't see the one after that.
Okay, yeah.
I'm kind of an originalist whenit comes to Star Wars.
I don't know.
Um I'm more of a Star Trek fan.
Did you know that?
I didn't.

Joel Lava (36:58):
That's that's really cool.

Carmen Lezeth (37:00):
I'm a Star Trek person.
I'm not a Star Wars fan.
And there is a difference.
Okay.
Uh, what's a protest sign youstill remember?
One that you made or one thatyou saw?

Joel Lava (37:13):
Uh the an interesting one is because I've learned a
lot about protesting.
I've never really I did likethe Iraq war protest in 2003,
um, but never saw much use ofprotesting.
I think it is very useful now.
And so I've learned a lot.
I've learned what like keep Ilearned keep it to like three
words, make them as boldlettering possible.

(37:35):
There's a difference betweenprotest signs when you're on the
street versus in a march.
Like if you're in a march, youcan have like a bunch of words
and stuff.
Yeah, so but the one I reallythought was just awesome, and I
didn't make it up, was it tookthe Tesla logo, which is like
the T, and it turned it upsidedown, and it looked like a Ku
Klux Klan hat, and it and theword the word was Ku Klux Klan.

(37:59):
Um, and it's coup-co-p.

Carmen Lezeth (38:03):
Yeah.
And so it was calling Teslawhite nationalist, like racist,
which is you know, well, you youhate Tesla and Elon Musk a lot.

Joel Lava (38:12):
Well, I liked it because it took the logo and
completely literally inverted itinto a clan hat, and then used
the word coup, which ourcountry's under a coup, and it
added the racism.
So I just and it was likereally popular, people loved it,
and I just left holding it forlike two months.
And then at a certain point, Iwas like, the the narrative had
shifted, so I I don't hold itanymore.

Carmen Lezeth (38:33):
Yeah, but I but I love that you you protest all
the time.
I mean you pretty much do itweekly if you need to.

Joel Lava (38:39):
You're obviously I hold I I organize, I'm the
leader of a weekly protest oftwo weekly protests.

Carmen Lezeth (38:45):
Um okay.
Um let me see.
What's your comfort food aftera long shoot?

Joel Lava (38:53):
You can't go wrong with a burrito.

Carmen Lezeth (38:55):
Okay.

Joel Lava (38:56):
Oh, but I also love street dogs after like a
concert.

Carmen Lezeth (39:00):
Oh, is that like a hot dog?

Joel Lava (39:01):
Yeah, the dudes with the carts and their Oh, yeah,
no.

Carmen Lezeth (39:04):
I don't need hot dogs.
Even when I was a little kid, Ido not do hot dogs.
Okay.
Um what moment do you wish youcould relive just once?

Joel Lava (39:18):
I mean, I I don't uh I'm assuming I I I took that to
mean if I could do itdifferently, not it was just a
wonderful thing I'd like tore-experience.

Carmen Lezeth (39:27):
Whatever you however you want to interpret,
there's no rules here too.

Joel Lava (39:29):
No, I know.
I'm just explaining.
I went kind of to the negative.

Carmen Lezeth (39:32):
Um don't go to the negative, be positive.

Joel Lava (39:35):
Well, no, I uh I'm just I gotta speak my truth.

Carmen Lezeth (39:40):
Okay, go ahead.
I'm sorry, you're right.
Go ahead.

Joel Lava (39:42):
Um, I don't have many regrets in life after age like
18 because or 19, because I hadsome series of things that
happened where I realized theangst and pain I feel of not
having taken act of notremedying the situation for
better or for worse throughaction or inaction eats at me so

(40:03):
much that I can't I have to do,I have to take action.
So my regrets and my formativeyears was uh it's I'm trying
this is like trying to not lightme around question, but I was
there that I was at a summercamp, it was like the three or
four week sessions.
I love to camp.
And I was at the finally theoldest bunk, you know, like so I
was probably like 13.

(40:24):
I told a story, like the firstday of camp when we're all like
getting shots at the infirmaryor something.
And when I was in the youngestbunk, we played strip poker, and
so we're like six,seven-year-olds, and it was just
like a funny story, and all theguys just they they decided to
take it in, they started callingme gay.
And uh there's nothing wrongwith being gay, but when you're

(40:45):
not gay, you're talking about alittle kid and you're talking
about a different time.
But when I'm not gay and I'm13, and they were they were just
dot making fun of me all thetime, and I didn't know what to
do.
And it got it was so bad thatmy counselors were like, you
should kick their ass.
Like, even my counselors werelike, sometimes you have to and
I that that's I'm not gonna be.
Yeah.

(41:07):
And then there was I wasrefereeing, I was scorekeeping,
there was a basketballtournament, and I was focusing
on that, and I heard laughing.
I thought I may have heard myname.
And I it was you know, thebasketball courts by the tennis
courts.
It's a summer camp out in theTexas Hill country.
And I look and there's like thethe bull, it's like from a you

(41:29):
know, a teen uh teen movie.
The dudes who are like bullyingme are with some girls and
they're all laughing.
And that moment has just stuckout with me for my whole life.
And I all I did was I pulled inand got self-hating, angry.
And what I wish I did is I wentover there and beat the shit

(41:50):
out of them.

Carmen Lezeth (41:52):
I think that's fair enough.

Joel Lava (41:53):
And the reason I didn't is because I would have
been kicked out of camp and myparents would have thrown me
into therapy, which is likethis.

Carmen Lezeth (42:00):
I never thought you were such a rule follower.
It's so interesting.

Joel Lava (42:03):
This pivotal moment, like when you break down the
layers, there's so many thingsabout my relationship with my
parents and just so much likedeep stuff.
But yeah, just the idea of notstanding up for myself and not
asserting my own agency.
I've I've uh I had a recentexperience.
Um, I was playing on abasketball team for the first

(42:25):
time in 15 years this year on arec league, and I'm not as good
as I was because I I can't jumpanymore.
Um I I accept that, but I'mstill good.
And there's guys who are likein their 20s on the team and
they're just they can movebetter, so I'm fine like that.
But I I want to play.
And I I went in in the secondhalf expecting to play like at

(42:49):
least half a quarter, half thehalf.
And after a few minutes, theywere subbing me out, and I got
really angry, and I got angry atthe guy subbing me out first,
and I at first was just holdingit all inside because like I
don't want to cause a scene on arec league team.
Okay, and then after the game Iwent up to him and I I was

(43:10):
like, I remember I said to theeffect of next time, like don't
fucking pull me off so quick,like what the fuck?
And then he's like, and then Irealized uh kind of it wasn't
just like our best player wassort of would sub people in and
out.
Anyway, I you know, becauseI've been doing a lot of work on

(43:31):
myself too.
Um and I just like how do Iwhat is the proper way to handle
this?
Because like I was like, I'mgetting mad at that dude who
isn't he's not as good as me.
And and I just was like somoving forward on the team what
I did when I checked into thegame, I was like, hey, I'm gonna
play for seven minutes.

(43:52):
Look for me after route, likeat uh whatever time mark, and
I'll let you know if I'm readyto come out.
And I'm not gonna come outuntil then.
And so I I asserted you took Isaid I took leadership.
I said, here's how it's gonnabe, here's and and it worked
that way.
And then in our championshipgame, they tried to sub me out
again, and I had just been onlyplaying for two minutes, and I

(44:15):
had I had a steal and tworebounds already.
I was playing really well,okay, and they were trying to
take me out.
I was like, no, I I said no,I'm playing great.
Like, I'm gonna play for threemore minutes, and just to like
be confrontational like that,right, but also keeping it civil
is like a real skill becauseyou can be like, What the fuck
you motherfucker?
I'm doing like a lot of guys goright there.

(44:35):
I kept it like civil andmature, but I was being very
strong and how I what I wasgonna do.

Carmen Lezeth (44:41):
So did they let you play?

Joel Lava (44:43):
Yeah, I wasn't uh because I was like, I'm not
coming out, sit, sit, sit down.

Carmen Lezeth (44:47):
Okay, cool.
Awesome.
I love that you're working onyourself.
I think that's a good thing.
Um, okay, what's a sound thatsoothes you instantly?
If you don't have one, youdon't have one.

Joel Lava (44:58):
I would say the sound of my child sleeping.

Carmen Lezeth (45:01):
Oh, that's sweet.
Okay.
I was hoping you'd saysomething more controversial.
Okay.
What's a book that changed yourmind?

Joel Lava (45:09):
Oh man, there's so many.

Carmen Lezeth (45:10):
Nope, a book.

Joel Lava (45:12):
I would I've read a lot of parenting books, and most
of them are just they state theobvious, but there's a book
called How to Talk So Kids WillListen and Listen So Kids Will
Talk.
I think is required reading foreveryone, whether you have kids
or not.

Carmen Lezeth (45:25):
Okay, fair enough.
Um what is your favorite movie?

Joel Lava (45:29):
Delicatessen.
1993.
It's a maybe it's a Frenchmovie.
Um I don't know it.
Like, do you know the movieAmelie?

Carmen Lezeth (45:39):
Yes, not my favorite.

Joel Lava (45:40):
That well, I loved it.
They and the City of LostChildren, the guys who made
those movies, they're it wastheir earlier, it was their
earlier movie.

Carmen Lezeth (45:49):
Okay.
Um, what's a scene you'vewatched a hundred times and
still feel something?

Joel Lava (45:55):
Well, again, there's many like that, but I will say
The Martian by Ridley Scott.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
Oh, okay, for sure.

Joel Lava (46:02):
There's a montage sequence in the middle where
they're like meeting with theJack Chinese and building the
rockets, and it's just allmontage to a David Bowie song.
I've literally written outevery shot like on a text
documentary.

Carmen Lezeth (46:15):
Oh, that's awesome.
Wow.
It was something you would askme if this were your show.
Ha ha ha ha show is Or youcould ask me anything because I
get to decide whether we keep itor not.
So go ahead.

Joel Lava (46:34):
If this was my show and I was talking to the
esteemed Carmen Lazette.

Carmen Lezeth (46:38):
Yeah, Carmen Lisette.

Joel Lava (46:41):
Um, I would be like, what what is your it doesn't
have to be precise, but likewhat is your like if you have
like a two or three year planfor all the work you're putting
into your podcast, what like ametric of success as well as how
you would know it's your sixyou're making a difference.

Carmen Lezeth (47:04):
I think I'm already making a difference, and
I do not have a plan, and I'mdoing it because I love uh
meeting people, talking topeople, and having a place to
have some sort of creativity.
I've also learned a lot.
Uh I cannot express how muchrespect I have for editors.
And I'm, of course, not evenpretending I'm editing in any

(47:26):
level whatsoever, as film doesor any of these other people,
but just editing my own audio ormy own video on my own little
tools that I have has been anincredible learning curve.
And I now have a different loveof the art of film that I don't
think I would have ever hadbefore because I understand now
editing on a different level andaudio and lighting, and so in

(47:48):
that sense, it's been reallygreat.
So I don't, I'm surprised byhow much success we've had, and
I wasn't trying.

Joel Lava (47:57):
So But my question is what what I don't have a plan.
What metrics do you definesuccess?

Carmen Lezeth (48:05):
Well, there's different ones, right?
There's audience for thepodcast, there's audience for uh
the videos, there's feedbackfrom people.
We get a lot of emails.
I've had a couple people tellme that um they're so grateful
that I said A, B, C, and D.
I've had four Trump supporterstell me that they know they made
a mistake and that they'vechanged their mind.

(48:26):
I think that is crazy on somany levels, like just crazy.
And that's not just from thecurrent show that me and Andrea
are doing.
That's just over all this time,right?
So for me, that's huge.
I also measure success, andpeople who watch the show on
Friday nights know this.
We get so many people who hateus.

(48:49):
Because there's so muchengagement, you know what I
mean?
So you can see like who likesyou whatever is to friends or
blah, blah, blah, or people whofollow you, okay, great, and I'm
very appreciative.
But the amount of people whohate what we're doing,
especially Culture andConsequence, which is the
political show, or anytime wetalk about um politics, we get a
lot more people who like us,but a lot more people who hate

(49:10):
us too.
And that's also a measure.
I think the minute I startmaking this about something
other than what its intentionwas, it's gonna lose its um like
what I love about it, becauseit's already a lot of work.
I'm spending at least 40 hoursa week on this show, right?
At least.
And I don't really have a lotof help.

(49:31):
I don't have, you know, I havepeople who come on the show on a
regular basis, but I don't havepeople who are doing editing.
I'm not paying people to doanything, you know?
So, but I think the minute itstarts becoming something like
that, without, I mean, don't getme wrong, if I had the money, I
would hire people to help me.
Do you know what I mean?
But I don't want to lose whyI'm doing it.
But I think the minute youstart having a team and all this

(49:54):
stuff, I think maybe you losesomething.
So I don't know.
I'm I'm open to it because Iwould love to be able to make an
income, you know, doing this.
And when you talk about AI, andI think about AI, I think about
what it is that I can bring tothe table because it is
changing.
Everybody's industry ischanging.
I don't want to see it asdying, though I don't think
you're wrong.

(50:14):
But I I like to look at it, youknow, in a more positive light
to figure out what I can bringto the table as well and
contribute.
And I think part of it will bemy personality, my ability to
interview, my ability to bringpeople together, my ability to
kind of have theseconversations.

Joel Lava (50:32):
Excellent.

Carmen Lezeth (50:33):
Thank you, Joel.

Joel Lava (50:35):
I have uh I have an editing thing that might speed
up your editing drastically, butwe can I can play you after
that.

Carmen Lezeth (50:42):
Yeah, that's cool.
All right, well, thank you somuch.
I appreciate you stopping by asalways.
You'll have to come by againwith the group if you ever want
to, and we can I always want to.
I always you're always welcometo come.

Joel Lava (50:52):
I feel like this is a probably a normal response to
people who are interviewed, is Ialways feel like I completely
didn't give you what you wanted.

Carmen Lezeth (51:00):
Oh my god.
I think you think too much.
I adore you, but you you're oneof the few people.
I I think most people don'tthink enough.
I'm being honest, most peoplehave no ability to kind of just
think things through and saythings, but you're one of these
people I think that thinks waytoo much.
And then you you gave you gaveme everything I need.

(51:21):
Everything.

Joel Lava (51:22):
Thank you.

Carmen Lezeth (51:23):
Yeah.
Anyways, everyone, thank you somuch.
Remember, at the end of theday, it really is all about the
joy.
Thank you, Joel.
Bye.
But don't log off.
Oh my god, I'm so cutting allthat out.
Let's see how my editing skillsare.

Joel Lava (51:35):
Why do you cut it out?

Carmen Lezeth (51:36):
I don't know.
Thanks for stopping by, allabout the joy.
Be better and stay beautiful,folks.
Have a sweet day.