October 26, 2025 • 50 mins
What if the best education for your child isn’t a yes-or-no choice between homeschooling and traditional school? We sit down with education reform advocate and author Chris Linder to explore a flexible path that blends the strengths of both. The idea is simple and powerful: keep the structure and social energy of the classroom, then add focused, at-home learning to close the gaps - critical thinking, financial literacy, study skills, and culturally relevant history.
Chris shares a personal journey from radio broadcasting to teaching in South Korea to instructional technology, and how a pandemic-era algebra struggle revealed the promise of hybrid homeschooling. One child thrived online, another needed a classroom. The solution wasn’t more pressure; it was targeted support. With the right curriculum and steady guidance, confidence rose and grades followed. That’s the blueprint: parents don’t have to reteach every subject; they guide, question, and curate resources that help kids make sense of the world.
We unpack what schools do well and where they fall short, how to use open-ended questions to build real comprehension, and why culture-rich materials strengthen engagement and identity. Chris explains how families can choose flexible curricula, verify sources (even when using AI), and join a supportive community like the Seat Squad to find low-cost, high-impact tools. Along the way, we honor teachers doing hard work with limited resources and offer a model that makes them allies, not adversaries.
The outcome is bigger than grades. It’s giving kids real choices after graduation - college, trades, entrepreneurship - because they can reason, adapt, and see themselves in the story of their learning. Ready to take back agency without burning out? Tap play, share this with a parent who needs it, and subscribe for more conversations that put families at the center of education. If this resonated, leave a review and tell us the one skill you wish schools taught more.
Thank you for stopping by. Please visit our website: All About The Joy and add, like and share. You can also support us by shopping at our STORE - We'd appreciate that greatly. Also, if you want to find us anywhere on social media, please check out the link in bio page.
Music By Geovane Bruno, Moments, 3481
Editing by Team A-J
Host, Carmen Lezeth
DISCLAIMER: As always, please do your own research and understand that the opinions in this podcast and livestream are meant for entertainment purposes only. States and other areas may have different rules and regulations governing certain aspects discussed in this podcast. Nothing in our podcast or livestream is meant to be medical or legal advice. Please use common sense, and when in doubt, ask a professional for advice, assistance, help and guidance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carmen Lezeth (00:00):
Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
This is the private lounge, andmy guest today is Chris Linder.
Did I say your last name right?
Because I always missed it.
Okay.
First, I want to say thank youso much for coming on the show.
I appreciate it.
Chris Linder (00:14):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Carmen Lezeth (00:17):
Um, so I'm gonna just do a little background bio
on you, and then I'm gonna getinto some questions if that's
okay.
Uh, you tell me if I'm wrong,but um, you are an education
reform advocate and the authorof Homeschool Remix.
Um, that's a guide that blendstraditional classroom structure
with the flexibility ofhomeschooling.
(00:37):
Okay.
You champion a hybrid strategythat empowers parents,
especially in marginalizedcommunities, to reclaim control
over children's education.
Chris Linder (00:49):
Correct.
Carmen Lezeth (00:50):
That's the gist.
Chris Linder (00:51):
Yes, yeah, that's it.
Carmen Lezeth (00:53):
Okay, and then I read on your website, which I
want to share with people yourmission statement, because I
thought that was even more uhsuccinct.
I don't even know if that's theright word, but we're gonna go
with it.
Um your mission is to empowerparents with the tools and
strategies needed to create adynamic learning environment
that combines the flexibility ofhomeschooling with the
(01:15):
structure and socialization oftraditional classrooms.
So, my first question is howdid this start for you and why
are you doing it?
Chris Linder (01:26):
All right.
Well, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
Um kind of a long story.
I'll keep it as brief aspossible.
I started out um elementaryschool for me was uh a small
charter school in Wisconsin.
We worked at our own pace inlittle cubicles.
Um I didn't see the inside of atraditional classroom until
(01:49):
middle school and high school.
Uh so for me, education hasalways been uh a really
self-directed, self-guidedpersonal thing.
Um, independent learning hasalways been what I've what I've
been doing.
Um my high school had a radiostation, so I got into radio
broadcasting.
Carmen Lezeth (02:09):
Um I can hear the voice.
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
Chris Linder (02:14):
And it's a little it's a little hoarse now, but
you know, it's all good.
Carmen Lezeth (02:18):
It sounds great.
Yeah.
Chris Linder (02:19):
Um, but I I was lucky enough to have great
teachers in high school and incollege.
She taught me the importance ofcritical thinking, the
importance of being able towrite, to express myself, and to
read.
Um I I loved literature and soon.
I was on the air in Knoxville,Tennessee, and I was bored.
(02:44):
I I want I had this wanderlustin my system.
And I was like, Okay.
What can I do that will help mesee the world, still make some
money, and then come back and Ican do radio for the rest of my
life and and and just be settleddown.
Okay.
So I got a book called WorkYour Way Around the World, and
(03:04):
it said uh you can uh go toEurope and you know, or South
America, and you can work in thefields, you can pick fruits
when it's time to harvest and soon, and or you could go to Asia
and you could teach English.
And I was like, I'm not afarmer, I'm not I'm not an
outside person.
(03:25):
So let me let me see thisteaching thing.
So I went to South Korea and Istarted Oh wow, yeah, I started
teaching English in a languageinstitute called uh Hagwan.
Um and wait, did you knowKorean?
No, not at all.
Carmen Lezeth (03:43):
That's fantastic.
Okay, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Chris Linder (03:45):
I had like $400 saved up from working radio.
I bought a ticket.
I I got to Korea and I waslike, here I am.
Um didn't I I I learned alittle bit of Korean on the
plane on the way over there.
I got one of those uh you knowlonely planet guidebooks.
Carmen Lezeth (04:06):
Um, this is while you're in college or right
after college?
Chris Linder (04:10):
This is after college.
I'm just right after collegefor a couple of years after
college, and you know, you don'tmake a lot of money in radio,
but I was doing all right.
And I was like, let me go aheadand get this wanderlust out of
my system and and do whatever Ican.
Um, and so yeah, I did.
I wow uh I taught in Korea fortwo years um at a Hagwan.
(04:33):
Uh I taught college students,uh, some high schoolers, some
older businessmen.
And for the most part, mystudents were taking regular
college classes during the day,and then they come to our Hagwan
either before their classes orafter, like late at night.
(04:54):
I learned that students, eventhe high schoolers, um, would do
this extra language learning umbecause they knew in the future
that it would help them, youknow, with the learn English.
And also they love learningEnglish because of the American
movies that were prevalent.
Carmen Lezeth (05:16):
So, you know, they wanted to learn our slang
and idioms and I wish we in theUnited States would want to
learn other languages, you knowwhat I mean?
But that's a whole otherconversation.
Chris Linder (05:26):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's it's it's somethinglike you know, a lot of uh
there's a lot of differencesbetween students in the rest of
the world and students inAmerica.
And that's one of those thingsthat you know, if we'd you know
open up our open up our mindsand and let down the borders and
just kind of you know look atother cultures and be curious
(05:48):
about um other cultures, we'dwant to learn their language,
we'd want to learn how you knowhow they conduct their lives.
And that that would be awesome.
That would be wonderful.
But uh yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (05:59):
So so you're in South Korea, you're teaching
English, you're there for twoyears.
Is your wonderlust done?
Clearly not.
Chris Linder (06:09):
Well, kind of.
It was it was kind of the curefor that wanderlust wanderlust
when um we had.
Um, there was, you know, notreally recession.
This is before the the techbubble burst, but there was kind
(06:30):
of a a ripple, and in the restof the world, the dollar began
to um really lose value.
So I was making less and lessmoney every day.
So I decided to come back, uhcome back to the States, and
also I was kind of homesick forcertain things in America.
(06:51):
So I decided, okay, all right,my time is done here, came back
to America, and uh I got backinto radio, but then always had
that teaching thing in the backof my mind.
So I was substitute teaching onthe side.
I met my my wife, who was anelementary school teacher.
Oh, okay.
(07:12):
And she kind of got me like tosee that, well, you're not
really gonna make a lot of moneyin radio.
Maybe you should considerteaching as a fallback.
Um, so I got uh a degree ininstructional technology and
started teaching high schoolworld literature.
Carmen Lezeth (07:28):
Wow, okay.
Chris Linder (07:30):
And my wife went on and and wrote books on uh on
the common core and on uh usinganchor charts in the classroom.
Um and we started doingprofessional development around
the country for for teachers.
Okay, um, and then my my wifepassed away.
Carmen Lezeth (07:50):
Oh I'm so sorry.
Chris Linder (07:52):
Okay, so I wasn't aware of that.
No, yeah, in 2016.
We had two kids, so theyweren't homeschooled.
The homeschooling thing issomething that that comes on a
little bit later um because itactually comes on after COVID.
Wow, okay.
(08:12):
Like we were lucky enough tohave you know great schools and
everything.
And when I had brought up theidea of homeschooling, my wife
at the my wife was like, no, youknow, because there's this
stigma around homeschooling thathomeschool kids aren't
socialized, they'll turn outweird or what have you.
And she was an elementaryteacher, so she was like that's
(08:33):
number 18 on my list.
Carmen Lezeth (08:34):
But go ahead.
We're gonna get there, butokay, so you're already
answering it.
So there was a stigma, and yourwife was like, No, we're not
homeschooled.
Chris Linder (08:43):
Yeah, she was she was against it.
And I was like, okay, well, youknow, because you know, she's
in charge.
So um, but after COVID, when uhwhen we had to do remote
learning, um I had one child whowas thriving with remote
learning, and my other childwasn't as uh comfortable with
(09:08):
it, they really needed a uh aclassroom environment.
What I was realizing was thatuh even after COVID, um when my
youngest child would havetrouble with uh, for example,
algebra.
I talk about this in the bookwhen when they were having
trouble with algebra, I waslike, okay, well, I can help
(09:29):
with that.
Right, you know, not realizingthat algebra, algebra hasn't
changed, but I guess my level ofmath has changed over the past
few decades.
I was like, wow, this is thisis pretty advanced.
This is like you know, I'm usedto okay, X plus Y.
I get that.
Carmen Lezeth (09:46):
Exactly, but then they go all out, yeah.
Chris Linder (09:49):
Right, right.
So um, so I was like, okay, Igotta figure out because in the
classroom, if you're not keepingup with the with the rest of
the class, the teacher can onlydo so much.
Yes.
And if you fail, you just fail,and you know, you have to get
put down a class or whatevernext semester.
And I was like, okay, well,we're not gonna fail.
(10:10):
So I gotta figure out what Ican do to supplement the
education that they're gettingin school with some home
learning or something.
I found uh some homeschoolingcurricula that would help with
algebra, and I sat with my childand we worked on it together,
(10:32):
and you know, long story short,they passed algebra, and I was
like, oh, you know, this islaughing because I cause because
it sounds torturous when yousaid I sat with my child and
went through algebra.
Carmen Lezeth (10:43):
Oh my, ooh, okay, but they passed.
Chris Linder (10:47):
But it wasn't, yeah, and it wasn't that bad.
And I didn't have to I didn'thave to learn algebra.
That was the that was the thepoint.
The great part of it was Ididn't have to actually learn it
to teach it.
Right.
Um, I just had to guide themthrough it, which I I was okay
with, you know.
Right.
And I realized that, okay,well, if I can figure out um
(11:09):
what curricula, what curriculumto use with supplementing this,
then other parents were probablylooking for that kind of thing
too, and maybe, you know, maybethey need help with that.
Um, and then the more I lookedat what my my kids were studying
in school, the more I realizedthat they're learning less and
(11:30):
less of the important stuff.
Carmen Lezeth (11:33):
And what say that again?
Wait, wait, wait.
So say that again because Imisunderstood something.
Chris Linder (11:41):
The more I looked at what they were learning in
school, the more I realized thatthey were learning less and
less of the important stuff.
They weren't getting practicallife skills.
My daughter, I was taking herto, she was a senior in high
school, I was taking her towork, and she asked me, Dad,
what's a mortgage?
(12:01):
And I was like, to me, that'slike the you know, the simplest
thing.
But it's like, well, why aren'tyou, you know, you're not
you're about to graduate highschool and you don't know what a
mortgage is.
Right.
We we have we're raising kids,and here I go on my soapbox
again, but we're raising kidswho are better equipped to
handle an active shooter thanthey are to balance a checkbook
(12:23):
or to apply for a mortgage.
Um, we're not teachingfinancial literacy in school,
we're not teaching you knowpractical life skills, and and
now we're not even teaching likeblack history or brown history,
cultural history.
Well, not teaching, you know,fundamental things.
Carmen Lezeth (12:42):
We're not teaching American history, which
is black history.
Chris Linder (12:46):
There you go.
There you go.
Carmen Lezeth (12:47):
We're not teaching anything that has
anything to do with, yeah, don'tget me on my soapbox.
I'm gonna let you keep going.
Chris Linder (12:53):
It's being redefined.
Carmen Lezeth (12:54):
It's being redefined, right, right.
Chris Linder (12:56):
You know, you add that to the books that are that
are being banned.
My my my youngest brought homea box of books from the library,
from the school library,because they were like they're
being banned.
Yeah, they were just gonnathrow these out.
Um, it's it wasn't because theywere banned, but because they
might be banned in the future,right?
Carmen Lezeth (13:16):
You know, that's a shame.
You know, I wanted to sharesomething with you because you
said something that wasinteresting about basic skills.
I'm not even talking aboutmortgage and balancing a
checkbook and just emotionalintelligence, you know, like
we're not learning any of thosethings.
But even in my own experience,so you should know, you should
you don't know this, but I'mgonna share this with you.
(13:37):
Most of my audience knows this.
I don't have children.
Um, and I consider that theblessing every day.
I have, I love kids.
I have way too many godchildrenand um nieces and nephews.
And I feel like that's that'swhat I'm the good auntie.
That's what I am.
But I think it's importantbecause as the outsider looking
(13:57):
at the struggles that I seeparents go through, um, when it
comes to education, is that'swhy I wanted to interview.
That's why I wanted to talk toyou, because I think this hybrid
idea is profound.
In my own experience, the waythat I grew up, um, you know, I
didn't have parents.
And so I ended up gettingthrough school.
(14:20):
And I went to Catholic school,Catholic school.
And I do this because it was,it's supposed to be better than
the other schools, and it's not.
All we learned was reallyreligion, some grammar and
English, and some math.
We had some good lay teachers,but at the end of the day, when
I got to college, which I didend up going to college, not
because of high school, notbecause of the schools I went
(14:41):
to, but because other peopleintervened and made sure I went,
I found out that I didn't havethe basic fundamental.
I can't believe I'm admittingthis, but I'm gonna, I didn't
have the basic fundamentallearning skills in order to
succeed.
And the first semester I was atcollege and I was studying all
the time and I was trying sohard and I was failing every
(15:02):
test.
I was, and I and I was luckybecause I knew people in the
administration.
I was, I was very lucky, andthey got me tested because they
thought maybe I had a learningdisability.
But I didn't have a learningdisability.
What I didn't have was basicskills.
I got through the first 12years in school without anyone
(15:24):
noticing, and I went to, andthat's why I did the quotes
earlier, without anyone noticingthat I didn't have the basic
schools to make it through myfreshman year in college.
And so I bring that to youbecause I am I don't know, I
might have to cut this all out.
I'm a little embarrassed now,but no, no.
What you're talking about, thishybrid situation.
(15:45):
How do you think it would havehelped someone like myself, or
how do you see it helping?
I think on your website yousaid marginalized.
I'm just gonna say poor.
Uh also poor uh students.
How does this help them?
Chris Linder (16:03):
I would say it's not necessarily poor students.
When I say marginalized, I meanstudents from black, brown,
indigenous families, uh studentswho may be LGBTQ, students who
are neurodivergent, students whoare not, you know, don't fit in
(16:26):
neatly to that that round holethat education is trying to jam
these square pegs in.
Carmen Lezeth (16:34):
Okay.
Chris Linder (16:34):
So all of those all of those kids um who are
not, you know, your your typicalDick and Jane mainstream kids.
Okay, that's families, and andthat's that's actually the
majority of families, themajority of families.
And it's because theeducational system is is
(16:57):
designed to really it's reallydesigned to not um to not train
and produce the best and thebrightest.
It's designed to produce aworkforce that knows how to
follow directions and may readat a fifth or sixth sixth grade
(17:19):
reading level, um, doesn't havecritical thinking skills because
that's not necessary to have uha labor job.
Carmen Lezeth (17:29):
Um is that factual what you're saying?
Chris Linder (17:33):
It's factual and it's it's been the case for 125
years.
That's why the education systemhasn't really changed.
Carmen Lezeth (17:42):
But isn't that sad that that's what we're
training?
Chris Linder (17:46):
It's it's sad unless you're uh a member of the
oligarchy and you're wondering,well, where am I gonna get you
know uh more people to work?
Labor force.
Where am I gonna get uh bodiesto fill my factories or my farms
um so that you know I think anentrepreneur can make a lot of
(18:07):
money.
Carmen Lezeth (18:07):
Okay, but then why oh then that's why we make
it so hard for people to go tocollege.
That's why we make uh I just Ijust had a light bulb moment.
Chris Linder (18:16):
Yeah, and that and that's the truth.
And you know, once in a while,I mean, you know, statistic
statistics are that, you know,once in a while a few will slip
through the cracks andaccidentally thrive,
accidentally go to college.
But even that is becomingharder and harder now.
It's much harder to pay forcollege, it's becoming harder to
(18:38):
get into college.
Carmen Lezeth (18:40):
No, absolutely.
And that's why I started, and Isaid I I was one of the lucky
ones because I actually got thehelp I needed immediately and
was able to work with theprofessors that were like like
here's some simple things.
Like I couldn't take timedtests.
So if you if you said to me,Carmen, I want you to answer
(19:02):
every question in front of me infront of the class, I was game,
I could do it.
But for some reason, there wasthat thing where it was timed, I
froze, I couldn't remember.
I so all of these littlethings.
And I keep thinking, like whenI was reading up on you, the
ability to have had a one-on-onewith a parent or an adult, or I
(19:23):
mean, why don't you tell memore about what your program
does before I start telling youwhat I wished I had?
Chris Linder (19:29):
Sure.
You know?
Um, I guess the big thing iswe're not trying to change
education, the educationalsystem from the inside out.
Um my mission is to let parentsknow that while the system may
not be working as well as itshould be, ultimately the
(19:52):
responsibility and the power tomake a positive change for your
young person is in your hands asthe parent.
Um, and what hybridhomeschooling is, um let me let
me back up.
What full-time homeschoolingis, is saying, okay, I'm gonna
withdraw my student from schooland I'm gonna take on the burden
(20:14):
of teaching them each and everysubject at home.
And that actually works for alot of people.
It doesn't work for a lot ofpeople from marginalized
communities, and I'm not, andagain, it's not just poor
communities, but like I know I'mI'm struggling with it just
(20:36):
because I'm like everyone youjust mentioned is poor.
Carmen Lezeth (20:39):
But I I get it because because are okay, I
understand when when when yousay marginalized communities, I
guess I'm trying not to use thebuzzwords that turn people off
because people don't like tohear minority, marginalized,
right?
That that's especially nooffense to my audience.
Yeah, my audience tends to notbe this group, so that's part of
(20:59):
it.
But the but aren't mostmarginalized people that we're
talking about people that don'thave tons of money?
They might not be poor, they'llbe maybe middle class, but they
don't have the kind of money tohave.
Chris Linder (21:16):
It's you know, single parents, yes, they don't
have time to to to full-timehomeschool their kids.
Even dual income parents, ifthey're both at work, they don't
have time for full-timehomeschooling.
Carmen Lezeth (21:29):
But but nobody's saying that full-time
homeschooling is better thantraditional school, right?
That's not what you're saying.
Chris Linder (21:36):
It's it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.
I mean, both in both cases,there's a lot, there's a lot
wrong with the traditionaleducational system, but there's
a lot right with it too.
Um, and with homeschooling, uh,it's great for a lot of people.
Uh, for some people, theirtheir kids still isn't gonna
get, you know, they're there arecertain things that they're not
(21:58):
going to figure out.
Teaching is hard.
And we learned this duringCOVID.
The professional teachers whowent to school to learn the
science of teaching, you know,they're actually doing a great
job with what they're given.
But they're given on a dailybasis, they're given, they're
given 125 students, you know, 20or 25 at a time, all with
(22:25):
different personalities, allgoing through puberty, you know,
all having their own issues,their own trauma that they're
dealing with.
Carmen Lezeth (22:34):
Yeah, the ratio is just wrong.
It's always been wrong.
Even when I was in school, theratio of teacher to students was
too much.
It always has been.
Chris Linder (22:42):
Yes, and they're just, you know, and it's just
getting worse as they, you know,reduce funding to schools or
bring in things like uh schoolchoice or voucher programs, um,
diverting tax money away frompublic schools, putting them
into private schools, which canafford to be exclusionary.
Um, they can, you know, decidewhether or not your kid fits
(23:07):
their profile and should beadmitted to their school and so
on.
But um, but no.
Uh with parents, what they needto realize is um homeschooling,
full-time homeschooling isn'tfor everybody.
Carmen Lezeth (23:21):
Right.
Chris Linder (23:22):
But traditional school and just leaving it up to
the state to educate yourstudent in everything that they
need to know, that's not foranybody.
Because there will be thingsthat your student isn't going
to, your child isn't gonna learnin school.
Right.
You know, and it, you know, allyou can do is try to identify
(23:43):
those things and teach them athome with targeted home
learning.
And that's what hybrid homelearning is.
Carmen Lezeth (23:51):
This is what you do.
Chris Linder (23:52):
And so it's all about.
Carmen Lezeth (23:54):
So why don't we talk about what would be first
of all, if people want to findout more about what you do, what
is the website again?
Chris Linder (24:02):
It's homeschoolremix.com.
Carmen Lez (24:07):
Homeschoolremix.com, and I'll make sure to put that
down at the bottom, but also forthe audio, I just want people
to hear it as well.
What would be the first thingsomeone should do if they want
to find out more about what youoffer?
Chris Linder (24:20):
Look around on the site.
Um, we are in the process ofbuilding a community called the
Seat Squad, which is all aboutsupport, educate, adapt, and
thrive.
It's all about bringingtogether um families who are
either just beginning inhomeschooling or in homeschool
(24:43):
veterans, uh, bringing themtogether with counselors and
educators, and just buildingcommunity through through
homeschooling.
Because the one the number onereason people don't really
homeschool is because if theyget started, they're worried
(25:03):
that they won't be able to haveany support whatsoever.
Carmen Lezeth (25:08):
Um but you're not advocating just for
homeschooling, you're saying, soyou know what, can you tell me
more about what a day in thelight of your program would be?
Maybe we should go there.
So I understand it better.
Chris Linder (25:20):
Okay, so so hybrid homeschooling or homeschool
remix, this framework isbasically giving a parent,
putting it back into theirhands, the control of education,
saying that you know what,leave your kids in school.
You can leave them enrolledeither full-time or in some
(25:42):
states they allow you to allowyou to do it two or three days a
week, and then figure out whatthey're not getting in school,
teach that to them either, youknow, an hour a day or a few
hours a week.
And that way you're notdevoting all of your time to
homeschooling.
Um, you're bridging the gap,you're filling in what they're
(26:06):
not getting in school with homelessons.
Carmen Lezeth (26:09):
I feel like what you might be talking about is
getting parents back involvedwith also not just dropping off
their kids in school, leaving itto the schools to try to teach
them everything, and then expectthem to come out perfect and
ready for college or whatever itis their trade school or
whatever it is they're going tobe doing.
Chris Linder (26:27):
That's exactly what I'm saying.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Like taking the responsibilityof educating your kids and
helping them to thrive, takingthat on, partnering with your
teachers, partnering with youryour school district, your
school system, and saying, hey,you know, it's not it's not
parents versus teachers.
(26:48):
It's not who's gonna be thebetter teacher, it's how can we
both cooperate so that ourstudent can turn out the best.
Carmen Lezeth (27:00):
And not fall through the cracks and not end
up in a situation, I mean, lookit, I'm completely, absolutely
blessed.
I've had a perfect, wonderfullife, right?
I don't mean to make it sound.
But when I think about thestruggles that I went through,
and if it wasn't for all theright people who stepped in, I
would have fallen through thecracks because they didn't have
those basics.
And so what you're talkingabout is that if a parent is
(27:22):
involved in their child'seducation and understands what
they don't know, what theirchildren are not learning,
whether it's what is a mortgage,whether it's not understanding
reading and comprehension oralgebra, when you can see what
your child is doing and notdoing, you can give them a much
better, stronger education sothat they actually succeed.
Chris Linder (27:45):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's and that's reallythe whole point.
And the secret of it is youhave to, as a parent, you have
to model how to learn.
You have to let them know thatyou know what, I don't know
everything, but we can figure itout.
I can, you know, read, I canresearch, I can ask questions.
(28:11):
If you can model that for yourchild, they'll be fine.
If you can incorporate criticalthinking into everything that
they do, whether it's schoolworkor or home lessons.
Carmen Lezeth (28:26):
So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a question because
I think we use these words andpeople don't know what it really
means.
What does critical thinkingmean?
Like, what do you mean by that?
Can you give us an example?
Chris Linder (28:38):
Sure.
Um critical thinking is reallywhat it looks like is you asking
open-ended questions as a as alearner, as a person who is
going through life, you need toask questions like, why is this
important?
Why is this happening?
What is the reason for this?
(28:59):
And then, you know, lettingthose questions, instead of just
taking something at face valueand going, well, I guess that's
the way things should be.
Carmen Lezeth (29:08):
And and and it's kind of the because I learned
what critical thinking was whenI was in college.
And that's way too late.
But that's when I started, it'snot too late.
It's never too late to learn.
But you can you can help yourchildren so much better if you
could take some of thisinformation that we're sharing
here.
Um, here's the thing iscritical thinking is also the
(29:29):
difference between memorizingand actually understanding
something.
That's what it is for me.
Chris Linder (29:35):
Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (29:35):
When you actually understand something, you are
curious.
You keep asking more questions.
You go down that rabbit holebecause you really want to fully
understand it.
And some of the things that Iwas doing, um, and I'm using
myself as an example, notbecause I want to keep sharing
every single personal thingabout myself as we do my shows,
but it seems to be part of whathappens, is because I want
people to people have an ideathat everybody has this life.
(29:59):
That they have and it was soeasy, or it was like whatever,
everybody has a struggle.
unknown (30:04):
Sure.
Chris Linder (30:04):
And when I love the fact that you're making the
connections because that's whatthat's what critical thinking
is.
Carmen Lezeth (30:10):
Yes.
Chris Linder (30:10):
You know, being able to, you know, here's a
fact.
And then you making making aconnection to your life.
That's what it that's what it'sall about.
So yes, please.
Carmen Lezeth (30:19):
Well, because I want people to relate to it too.
I think people need tounderstand that everything isn't
magical.
But if you're just memorizingthings, if you're just hearing
somebody else say it and thenyou're regurgitating it, you're
just repeating it.
Hmm, we can talk about that onanother level, but and you're
not fully understanding it inall the layers, you're not being
(30:40):
a critical thinker.
Chris Linder (30:42):
That's fair enough.
And unfortunately, that's anepidemic that uh that all you
have to do is look at the newsand you know where that gets us
if we're not critical thinking.
If we're just listening to uhsound bites and bumper stickers,
you know, we're not going tothink about when someone tells
(31:08):
us what they consider to be afact.
We're not going to oralternative facts.
Carmen Lezeth (31:14):
Please don't feel hesitant unless it's up to you.
You don't have to feel hesitantabout getting into politics at
all because this is yourinterview.
I'm just saying.
Um, because I know where you'regoing with this.
I mean, for me, and and we dohave an you can't help but go
with go there, you know?
Yeah, you can't help it.
I mean, that's part of theother reason why I wanted you on
the show is like it's soimportant to be an educated
(31:34):
human being.
And if we can understand thatchildren need that at the
beginning, and how can youfigure out different ways?
I feel like a lot of parentsuse, and and again, as an
observer, an observer, useschool as a babysitting place.
They don't understand the valueof getting a good education.
(31:57):
You're gonna find out later onif you don't take.
I'm sorry to be so mean aboutit because I know you seem nicer
about it, but I feel veryadamant that I see so many kids
falling through the cracksbecause their parents are not
involved at all.
There's no adult involved intheir schooling.
Chris Linder (32:16):
Yeah, it's it's a shame.
It's just it's sad.
But yeah, that's that's exactlyright.
Parents need to really, I mean,it's easy for us to sit here
and say, oh, parents need tolearn to do this, parents need
to do that.
But when you're working afull-time job as a parent, the
last thing you want to do issay, wait, you mean I can't I
(32:36):
can't just leave my kid atschool and and trust that
they'll learn.
I have to do it myself.
I have to do that myself too.
And it's it's tough, it's hard.
Carmen Lezeth (32:45):
I look at, and I have very I have zero sympathy
because I am the meanest person.
Here's the thing (32:51):
I made a choice not to have children.
There are pros and cons ofthat.
You made a choice to havechildren, there are pros and
cons of that, but there areresponsibilities as well.
Yeah, and I only say it becauseof my situation, the way I grew
up, and and I am gonna keepbringing it back to that is I I
could have easily fallen throughthe cracks and I didn't.
(33:13):
But there are so many otherpeople who had a worse beginning
in their lives than I did,right?
Even though we all have ourstory, but they didn't get the
luxury that I got that peoplewere there to just make sure I
walked on through no matterwhat.
Chris Linder (33:29):
Right.
Carmen Lezeth (33:30):
It shouldn't be a chance, it shouldn't be that we
all need to do our part to takecare of the children around us.
And I think that's the otherpart of it too.
Like, this is me doing my partfor all children.
unknown (33:41):
Okay.
Carmen Lezeth (33:41):
Like having Chris on the show is another thing
I'm trying to do.
Um, let me ask you thisquestion.
There are concerns like from umhomeschooling advocates about
your program.
What do you say to them?
I mean, you've kind of alreadytouched on it a bit, but what's
like the sound bite you want togive to people who are saying
(34:03):
no, no?
Chris Linder (34:04):
People who are people who are against
homeschooling or people who arefor traditional homeschooling.
Carmen Lezeth (34:11):
So yeah, so I have two questions, but I guess
we've already talked about letme let me let me start over.
How do you answer critiquesfrom traditional homeschoolers?
They say it's too structured.
There's um some feel hybridmodels mimic private school too
closely, or curriculum controland some hybrid setups, the
program, not the parent, choosesthe curriculum and the
(34:33):
assignments, which can feelrestrictive.
unknown (34:37):
Sure.
Carmen Lezeth (34:38):
That's a better way to ask that question.
I apologize.
Chris Linder (34:40):
No, no, and I I totally understand what uh what
I've done with my framework ismade it so that you you're not
locked into a specific program'scurriculum.
I think the flexibility andfreedom of curriculum is really
key, especially for, and I knowwe we keep saying this,
(35:02):
especially for marginalizedcommunities, um, for black
students, brown students, and soon, who need to see themselves
reflected in the subjects andtopics, things that they study.
Um, they're not gonna get thatin your standard textbooks off
the shelves.
Um so you have to be creativeas a parent to actually just you
(35:28):
know look for and adapt lessonplans and curriculum that that
reflect you and your culture,your own culture, as well as a
diverse uh overarching culturethat you're able to give more of
a perspective on.
So I push back on anybody who'ssaying that uh a hybrid
(35:54):
homeschooling is restrictive asfar as curriculum or restrictive
as far as structure.
Uh the structure comes from thetraditional school.
You as a parent um use that forstructure, but you also are
flexible enough to do whateverfits your unique needs in your
(36:19):
family, you know, for that forthat homeschool part.
Carmen Lezeth (36:23):
Can you give an example of how culturally like
how culturally significant youmight infuse something in a
subject that your child mightneed that would not be in a
traditional, I don't know,whether it's algebra or history.
I mean, history would probablybe the easiest one, right?
So you would use a history bookand they would be talking
(36:47):
about, let's say, theConfederacy or something, right?
Or they'd be talking just aboutcivil rights or whatever it is,
sure.
And you would give the otherlens, but where would you get
that information if you're notfully?
I mean, anyways, you see whatI'm trying to get at.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because here's the thing.
I want you to explain it towhite folk.
I'm gonna say it is my show.
You see what I'm saying?
(37:07):
Because they hear the buzzwordsand what do you mean?
What do you mean?
So, what do you mean when yousay that?
Chris Linder (37:13):
Luckily, we have the universe at our fingertips
now with computers.
Um, even and I know that thisis a very divisive word, AI.
Um, I love it.
There's no reason, right?
There's no reason for you notto be able to have information
(37:35):
about whatever subject you'reteaching, or whatever subject
your student needs to get thishelp in.
If you're uh obviously withhistory, um and be before I go
any further, if you're going touse AI to devise lesson plans
(37:56):
and and so on, double triplecheck your sources.
AI is notorious forhallucinating, and you know,
it's basically crowd-funded, youknow, okay.
Carmen Lezeth (38:08):
But does homeschool remix and the
community you have there wouldhelp with that?
So let's say I was like, okay,I'm teaching my niece about
history and I don't know enoughabout what happened, whatever.
I don't know.
Okay, I can go to your websiteand maybe what happens?
I go to your website, I cancontact someone.
How does it work?
Chris Linder (38:28):
Go to the website, you can you can get a copy of
the book, Homeschool Remix,which basically outlines the
framework.
But yes, join the community,um, post in the community, ask
questions, say you need helpwith it's a little bit uh it's
similar to a Facebook group, butpeople there are are you know
(38:52):
they've gone through it so theycan help you with it.
And I guarantee you, if youhave this question, there's
other people that are alsowondering the same thing, and
somebody has solved it with umhistory, for example.
Um, one of the things that Ilike to uh suggest as a
curriculum is um a book.
(39:15):
It's actually a curriculumcalled Woke Homeschooling.
Carmen Lezeth (39:19):
Okay, that's gonna turn off every single
person listening.
But you know what?
No, it shouldn't.
I love it.
I love it because I always saythis all the time.
Like they're just abusing theword woke in all the wrong ways.
Like, I would rather be wokethan not woke because that means
I'm sleeping.
Like, anyways, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
We need to say that I'm likeding ding ding ding ding.
Chris Linder (39:39):
I get that.
That's one of those that's oneof those words.
But again, with the power oflanguage, we can't let words
that mean one thing be redefinedas something opposite, and
that's exactly what's beingdone.
With and now they're they'redemonizing DEI.
Well, they've been doing that,right?
Critical race theory, which isnothing nothing about what they
(40:03):
describe it as.
And they're trying to demonizewoke.
Carmen Lezeth (40:07):
And well, it goes back to being a critical
thinker, right?
It goes back to being someonewho doesn't just look at the
surface of things and actuallydigs deep and understands and I
always say the nuance of things,you know.
But it's so much easier to justhave stuff thrown at you and
(40:28):
just believing it because hesaid it or she said it than to
actually go through it.
Chris Linder (40:34):
And there's so much stuff being blasted at you
on a daily basis from people ofauthority, which makes it worse.
It's it's it's what he realizedthat as a Republican, what they
need to do is just throw allthese different things at you,
and you don't have time toreact.
(40:55):
You don't have time to reallythink each thing through.
And you know, you may be youknow focusing on you know the
the $200 million 90,000 squarefoot ballroom, and that will
that will take your focus awayfrom the fact that there's armed
and masked men kidnappingAmerican citizens off the
(41:18):
street.
That's right, you know, and andthat's going to distract you
from the Epstein files, right?
Carmen Lezeth (41:25):
Which is really all we all want is the Epstein
files right now at this moment.
Because now he's made it.
No, no, come on, because now Ididn't care at all before all of
this, but now that he's made itsuch a big deal, I want to see
it.
Chris Linder (41:39):
But let me go back to the All we really want is is
someone to just take the theveil of ignorance off of the
entire country, yeah, and so wecan start singing brand new day,
like at the end of the whiz.
Carmen Lezeth (41:55):
I know, right?
Chris Linder (41:56):
Oh, I would love to know the wicked witches, you
know, Evelyn has gone into herbig toilet.
Carmen Lezeth (42:02):
No, I know, I know.
Chris Linder (42:03):
That's what we really want.
We want an end to this.
Whether it happens in Novemberof next year or two years later,
or you know, I want an end tothis now because I'm tired.
Carmen Lezeth (42:14):
It's true.
Yes.
But but here's the thing whileall this is happening, while
people are, you know, beingupset about words they don't
understand because they're notusing critical theory, like, you
know, um I'm sorry, criticalthinking, like DEI or woke or
whatever, what's actuallyhappening is your children are
the ones who are losing outbecause they're not learning
(42:36):
anything.
They're not figuring it out,they're not getting the
education that they need to get.
And that that scares me.
I also want to give a shout outto teachers because what I also
love about you is um you have alot of love for teachers, of
course.
Now I understand even more sowhy.
Uh, but I do think at somepoint we need to have the
(42:58):
conversation when we have sanityback.
Teachers need to be not onlypaid well, but supported.
Like, and I mean supported notjust also financially, but I
remember, and I don't remembermuch about my mom, but my mom at
one point was helping, she wasa teacher's aide, along with
being a housekeeper.
So she would go into theschools and act as an assistant
(43:22):
to the classroom.
And and the only reason why Iwould know is because Catholic
school would have all theseholidays, right?
And I would have to go withher.
So I we I either go with herwhen she was housekeeping or
when she would go to the school.
They don't have that anymore,right?
They don't have the help thatteachers need.
Chris Linder (43:38):
They do have teachers' aids.
Um, but again, because of thethe the funding and budget cuts
that are rampant, a lot ofdistricts can't afford to to to
hire as many teachers' aides asthey as they would have in the
past, right?
So yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (43:56):
Wow, it's been so great to have you on the show.
We haven't even gotten throughthe second list of questions,
but um, let me just ask you onelast one.
What's next for you?
What do you see as kind of thelegacy of this program, or what
is the next steps for you andyour organization?
Chris Linder (44:14):
I've got to figure out, we have to figure out a
way to make education go viral.
unknown (44:24):
I love that.
Chris Linder (44:26):
Trying to figure out how to change people's
minds, parents' minds, families'minds, and again, it doesn't
matter what color or anythinglike that.
Just for them to realize thatit's gonna take a while for us
to A, figure all this, all thisstuff out, and B, fix it after
(44:49):
it's done, after that brand newday arrives, there's gonna be a
lot of things to fix.
But meanwhile, our students aregetting older, our students are
going to you know reach 12thgrade and graduate.
So we can't pause education.
We can't you know hope hopethat, well, maybe in the next
(45:11):
five years we'll decide that theDepartment of Education is
actually important.
Well, maybe we shouldn't getrid of it.
My goodness.
You know, we have to take uh thethe control of education back
from the institutions and intothe hands of families.
(45:32):
Yeah.
And and it has to be a it hasto be a fundamental switch in
people's heads that they realizeit's education is way too
important for my kid to gowithout it, and it's my
responsibility to make sure theyget it, and it's my
responsibility to make sure thatthey're equipped when they
(45:55):
graduate to go through withcritical thinking, to be able to
have choices after theygraduate of what kind of job
they want.
Because, like I come down onyou know, the educational system
pouring out, putting out labor,you know, laborers as is that
that's the goal of it.
And there's nothing wrong withbeing a laborer, there's nothing
(46:19):
wrong with working in a factoryor in a field.
Um do what you want to do, dowhat you like to do, but you
should have a choice.
Your your kids should have achoice as to what they want to
be, and it shouldn't be that youknow the administration or
(46:39):
whomever decides that, well,because your student is fill in
the blank, they're only good tobe a laborer, or they're only
good to have this kind of job orthat kind of position, or
you're talking about to get intocollege.
Carmen Lezeth (46:56):
Yeah, yeah.
You're you're talking aboutreal wealth.
I'm not talking about moneywealth, you're talking about the
wealth of choices, the abilityto make a decision.
I have one nephew who isdeciding, along with his
parents, not to go to college,but instead to go to trade
school and learn to become anelectrician because that's what
he wants to do.
And I thought it was sobrilliant because he's thinking
(47:19):
about the future and AI and whathe really wants to be doing.
And it's like, but he has awealth of choices because his
parents have been so involved inhis education that the choice
not to go to college and to goto trade school is wealth.
That is a wealth of a choice tobe able to make along with his
parents.
(47:39):
So and very smart, reallysmart, especially with AI, yeah.
Chris Linder (47:45):
With the whole 10 years ago or 15 years ago, we
wanted everybody to learn to becoders.
Carmen Lezeth (47:50):
Yeah.
Chris Linder (47:51):
You know, but but now it's like, well, yeah, maybe
maybe actually working withyour hands is a is a good
choice.
Carmen Lezeth (47:59):
Is a good choice, especially if that's what you
like to do.
But again, you're not gonnaknow that if you don't have and
I I'm gonna say this one thing.
I think the relationshipbetween parent and children,
like their children, is soimportant.
And people think that justbecause they have children, they
actually have thatrelationship.
And part of what you're talkingabout is you have to care about
(48:22):
your child's education.
It's like and and I internalizethat.
Yes, yes, I'm a little enviousof it.
But I think that's what that'swhat I got from reading about
you and learning about you waslike we need to care more about
what's happening with ourchildren when it comes to
education and not hoping that uha teacher who is trying to take
(48:43):
care of 75 children um is goingto teach them everything, no
matter how great that teacheris, you know.
Chris Linder (48:49):
So it's not like it is in the movies.
Carmen Lezeth (48:53):
No, not well, not at all.
No, but um, but Chris, thankyou so much for being here.
I appreciate it.
I hope you'll come back andmaybe we can have you come back
with uh the rest of the crew ifyou'd like to do that.
Um we could talk a little bitmore and see.
They all have children, so Ikind of like that I had this
special time with you because wecould have this conversation.
(49:14):
Um, but that might be somethingif you were willing to do it.
Chris Linder (49:17):
You know, I'm totally willing.
Yes, yes, let's do it.
Carmen Lezeth (49:20):
So, everyone, um, remember it's Chris Linder.
The name of the website ishomeschoolremix.com.
What's the name of the book?
Chris Linder (49:27):
Uh, the book's called Homeschool Remix.
Carmen Lezeth (49:30):
You can find it on the website.
Oh, and what else?
I'm sorry.
Yes.
Oh, I'm gonna start saying thatmore often actually to support
your local bookstores becausethat's true.
We really do need to.
Um, what else were you gonnasay?
Chris Linder (49:47):
Uh our community is called the seat squad, and
it's it's called that because wepractice folding chair
homeschooling, which isbasically finding free and
low-cost um resources to to usewhile hybrid homeschooling.
Um, and it comes from theShirley Chisholm quote if they
(50:08):
don't find if they don't have aseat for you at the table, bring
a folding chair.
Yeah, bring a folding chair.
Carmen Lezeth (50:14):
Oh, that's great.
I was trying to figure out howthe folding chair came in.
Got it.
That's great.
Chris Linder (50:20):
There's a bunch of ways for you to spend a whole
lot of money homeschooling, butif you're smart about it,
there's no reason why you haveto spend a lot of money.
A lot of money.
Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (50:32):
Check out the website, get in touch with
Chris, and um, yeah, thank you,everyone.
Chris, thank you so much.
And remember, at the end of theday, it really is all about the
joy.
Thank you, everyone.
Bye.
Thanks for stopping by, AllAbout the Joy.
Be better and stay beautiful,folks.
Have a sweet day.
Hey everyone, welcome to All About the Joy.
This is the private lounge, andmy guest today is Chris Linder.
Did I say your last name right?
Because I always missed it.
Okay.
First, I want to say thank youso much for coming on the show.
I appreciate it.
Chris Linder (00:14):
Oh, thanks for having me.
Carmen Lezeth (00:17):
Um, so I'm gonna just do a little background bio
on you, and then I'm gonna getinto some questions if that's
okay.
Uh, you tell me if I'm wrong,but um, you are an education
reform advocate and the authorof Homeschool Remix.
Um, that's a guide that blendstraditional classroom structure
with the flexibility ofhomeschooling.
(00:37):
Okay.
You champion a hybrid strategythat empowers parents,
especially in marginalizedcommunities, to reclaim control
over children's education.
Chris Linder (00:49):
Correct.
Carmen Lezeth (00:50):
That's the gist.
Chris Linder (00:51):
Yes, yeah, that's it.
Carmen Lezeth (00:53):
Okay, and then I read on your website, which I
want to share with people yourmission statement, because I
thought that was even more uhsuccinct.
I don't even know if that's theright word, but we're gonna go
with it.
Um your mission is to empowerparents with the tools and
strategies needed to create adynamic learning environment
that combines the flexibility ofhomeschooling with the
(01:15):
structure and socialization oftraditional classrooms.
So, my first question is howdid this start for you and why
are you doing it?
Chris Linder (01:26):
All right.
Well, yeah, that's a goodquestion.
Um kind of a long story.
I'll keep it as brief aspossible.
I started out um elementaryschool for me was uh a small
charter school in Wisconsin.
We worked at our own pace inlittle cubicles.
Um I didn't see the inside of atraditional classroom until
(01:49):
middle school and high school.
Uh so for me, education hasalways been uh a really
self-directed, self-guidedpersonal thing.
Um, independent learning hasalways been what I've what I've
been doing.
Um my high school had a radiostation, so I got into radio
broadcasting.
Carmen Lezeth (02:09):
Um I can hear the voice.
That makes sense.
That makes sense.
Chris Linder (02:14):
And it's a little it's a little hoarse now, but
you know, it's all good.
Carmen Lezeth (02:18):
It sounds great.
Yeah.
Chris Linder (02:19):
Um, but I I was lucky enough to have great
teachers in high school and incollege.
She taught me the importance ofcritical thinking, the
importance of being able towrite, to express myself, and to
read.
Um I I loved literature and soon.
I was on the air in Knoxville,Tennessee, and I was bored.
(02:44):
I I want I had this wanderlustin my system.
And I was like, Okay.
What can I do that will help mesee the world, still make some
money, and then come back and Ican do radio for the rest of my
life and and and just be settleddown.
Okay.
So I got a book called WorkYour Way Around the World, and
(03:04):
it said uh you can uh go toEurope and you know, or South
America, and you can work in thefields, you can pick fruits
when it's time to harvest and soon, and or you could go to Asia
and you could teach English.
And I was like, I'm not afarmer, I'm not I'm not an
outside person.
(03:25):
So let me let me see thisteaching thing.
So I went to South Korea and Istarted Oh wow, yeah, I started
teaching English in a languageinstitute called uh Hagwan.
Um and wait, did you knowKorean?
No, not at all.
Carmen Lezeth (03:43):
That's fantastic.
Okay, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
Chris Linder (03:45):
I had like $400 saved up from working radio.
I bought a ticket.
I I got to Korea and I waslike, here I am.
Um didn't I I I learned alittle bit of Korean on the
plane on the way over there.
I got one of those uh you knowlonely planet guidebooks.
Carmen Lezeth (04:06):
Um, this is while you're in college or right
after college?
Chris Linder (04:10):
This is after college.
I'm just right after collegefor a couple of years after
college, and you know, you don'tmake a lot of money in radio,
but I was doing all right.
And I was like, let me go aheadand get this wanderlust out of
my system and and do whatever Ican.
Um, and so yeah, I did.
I wow uh I taught in Korea fortwo years um at a Hagwan.
(04:33):
Uh I taught college students,uh, some high schoolers, some
older businessmen.
And for the most part, mystudents were taking regular
college classes during the day,and then they come to our Hagwan
either before their classes orafter, like late at night.
(04:54):
I learned that students, eventhe high schoolers, um, would do
this extra language learning umbecause they knew in the future
that it would help them, youknow, with the learn English.
And also they love learningEnglish because of the American
movies that were prevalent.
Carmen Lezeth (05:16):
So, you know, they wanted to learn our slang
and idioms and I wish we in theUnited States would want to
learn other languages, you knowwhat I mean?
But that's a whole otherconversation.
Chris Linder (05:26):
Yeah, yeah.
And that's it's it's somethinglike you know, a lot of uh
there's a lot of differencesbetween students in the rest of
the world and students inAmerica.
And that's one of those thingsthat you know, if we'd you know
open up our open up our mindsand and let down the borders and
just kind of you know look atother cultures and be curious
(05:48):
about um other cultures, we'dwant to learn their language,
we'd want to learn how you knowhow they conduct their lives.
And that that would be awesome.
That would be wonderful.
But uh yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (05:59):
So so you're in South Korea, you're teaching
English, you're there for twoyears.
Is your wonderlust done?
Clearly not.
Chris Linder (06:09):
Well, kind of.
It was it was kind of the curefor that wanderlust wanderlust
when um we had.
Um, there was, you know, notreally recession.
This is before the the techbubble burst, but there was kind
(06:30):
of a a ripple, and in the restof the world, the dollar began
to um really lose value.
So I was making less and lessmoney every day.
So I decided to come back, uhcome back to the States, and
also I was kind of homesick forcertain things in America.
(06:51):
So I decided, okay, all right,my time is done here, came back
to America, and uh I got backinto radio, but then always had
that teaching thing in the backof my mind.
So I was substitute teaching onthe side.
I met my my wife, who was anelementary school teacher.
Oh, okay.
(07:12):
And she kind of got me like tosee that, well, you're not
really gonna make a lot of moneyin radio.
Maybe you should considerteaching as a fallback.
Um, so I got uh a degree ininstructional technology and
started teaching high schoolworld literature.
Carmen Lezeth (07:28):
Wow, okay.
Chris Linder (07:30):
And my wife went on and and wrote books on uh on
the common core and on uh usinganchor charts in the classroom.
Um and we started doingprofessional development around
the country for for teachers.
Okay, um, and then my my wifepassed away.
Carmen Lezeth (07:50):
Oh I'm so sorry.
Chris Linder (07:52):
Okay, so I wasn't aware of that.
No, yeah, in 2016.
We had two kids, so theyweren't homeschooled.
The homeschooling thing issomething that that comes on a
little bit later um because itactually comes on after COVID.
Wow, okay.
(08:12):
Like we were lucky enough tohave you know great schools and
everything.
And when I had brought up theidea of homeschooling, my wife
at the my wife was like, no, youknow, because there's this
stigma around homeschooling thathomeschool kids aren't
socialized, they'll turn outweird or what have you.
And she was an elementaryteacher, so she was like that's
(08:33):
number 18 on my list.
Carmen Lezeth (08:34):
But go ahead.
We're gonna get there, butokay, so you're already
answering it.
So there was a stigma, and yourwife was like, No, we're not
homeschooled.
Chris Linder (08:43):
Yeah, she was she was against it.
And I was like, okay, well, youknow, because you know, she's
in charge.
So um, but after COVID, when uhwhen we had to do remote
learning, um I had one child whowas thriving with remote
learning, and my other childwasn't as uh comfortable with
(09:08):
it, they really needed a uh aclassroom environment.
What I was realizing was thatuh even after COVID, um when my
youngest child would havetrouble with uh, for example,
algebra.
I talk about this in the bookwhen when they were having
trouble with algebra, I waslike, okay, well, I can help
(09:29):
with that.
Right, you know, not realizingthat algebra, algebra hasn't
changed, but I guess my level ofmath has changed over the past
few decades.
I was like, wow, this is thisis pretty advanced.
This is like you know, I'm usedto okay, X plus Y.
I get that.
Carmen Lezeth (09:46):
Exactly, but then they go all out, yeah.
Chris Linder (09:49):
Right, right.
So um, so I was like, okay, Igotta figure out because in the
classroom, if you're not keepingup with the with the rest of
the class, the teacher can onlydo so much.
Yes.
And if you fail, you just fail,and you know, you have to get
put down a class or whatevernext semester.
And I was like, okay, well,we're not gonna fail.
(10:10):
So I gotta figure out what Ican do to supplement the
education that they're gettingin school with some home
learning or something.
I found uh some homeschoolingcurricula that would help with
algebra, and I sat with my childand we worked on it together,
(10:32):
and you know, long story short,they passed algebra, and I was
like, oh, you know, this islaughing because I cause because
it sounds torturous when yousaid I sat with my child and
went through algebra.
Carmen Lezeth (10:43):
Oh my, ooh, okay, but they passed.
Chris Linder (10:47):
But it wasn't, yeah, and it wasn't that bad.
And I didn't have to I didn'thave to learn algebra.
That was the that was the thepoint.
The great part of it was Ididn't have to actually learn it
to teach it.
Right.
Um, I just had to guide themthrough it, which I I was okay
with, you know.
Right.
And I realized that, okay,well, if I can figure out um
(11:09):
what curricula, what curriculumto use with supplementing this,
then other parents were probablylooking for that kind of thing
too, and maybe, you know, maybethey need help with that.
Um, and then the more I lookedat what my my kids were studying
in school, the more I realizedthat they're learning less and
(11:30):
less of the important stuff.
Carmen Lezeth (11:33):
And what say that again?
Wait, wait, wait.
So say that again because Imisunderstood something.
Chris Linder (11:41):
The more I looked at what they were learning in
school, the more I realized thatthey were learning less and
less of the important stuff.
They weren't getting practicallife skills.
My daughter, I was taking herto, she was a senior in high
school, I was taking her towork, and she asked me, Dad,
what's a mortgage?
(12:01):
And I was like, to me, that'slike the you know, the simplest
thing.
But it's like, well, why aren'tyou, you know, you're not
you're about to graduate highschool and you don't know what a
mortgage is.
Right.
We we have we're raising kids,and here I go on my soapbox
again, but we're raising kidswho are better equipped to
handle an active shooter thanthey are to balance a checkbook
(12:23):
or to apply for a mortgage.
Um, we're not teachingfinancial literacy in school,
we're not teaching you knowpractical life skills, and and
now we're not even teaching likeblack history or brown history,
cultural history.
Well, not teaching, you know,fundamental things.
Carmen Lezeth (12:42):
We're not teaching American history, which
is black history.
Chris Linder (12:46):
There you go.
There you go.
Carmen Lezeth (12:47):
We're not teaching anything that has
anything to do with, yeah, don'tget me on my soapbox.
I'm gonna let you keep going.
Chris Linder (12:53):
It's being redefined.
Carmen Lezeth (12:54):
It's being redefined, right, right.
Chris Linder (12:56):
You know, you add that to the books that are that
are being banned.
My my my youngest brought homea box of books from the library,
from the school library,because they were like they're
being banned.
Yeah, they were just gonnathrow these out.
Um, it's it wasn't because theywere banned, but because they
might be banned in the future,right?
Carmen Lezeth (13:16):
You know, that's a shame.
You know, I wanted to sharesomething with you because you
said something that wasinteresting about basic skills.
I'm not even talking aboutmortgage and balancing a
checkbook and just emotionalintelligence, you know, like
we're not learning any of thosethings.
But even in my own experience,so you should know, you should
you don't know this, but I'mgonna share this with you.
(13:37):
Most of my audience knows this.
I don't have children.
Um, and I consider that theblessing every day.
I have, I love kids.
I have way too many godchildrenand um nieces and nephews.
And I feel like that's that'swhat I'm the good auntie.
That's what I am.
But I think it's importantbecause as the outsider looking
(13:57):
at the struggles that I seeparents go through, um, when it
comes to education, is that'swhy I wanted to interview.
That's why I wanted to talk toyou, because I think this hybrid
idea is profound.
In my own experience, the waythat I grew up, um, you know, I
didn't have parents.
And so I ended up gettingthrough school.
(14:20):
And I went to Catholic school,Catholic school.
And I do this because it was,it's supposed to be better than
the other schools, and it's not.
All we learned was reallyreligion, some grammar and
English, and some math.
We had some good lay teachers,but at the end of the day, when
I got to college, which I didend up going to college, not
because of high school, notbecause of the schools I went
(14:41):
to, but because other peopleintervened and made sure I went,
I found out that I didn't havethe basic fundamental.
I can't believe I'm admittingthis, but I'm gonna, I didn't
have the basic fundamentallearning skills in order to
succeed.
And the first semester I was atcollege and I was studying all
the time and I was trying sohard and I was failing every
(15:02):
test.
I was, and I and I was luckybecause I knew people in the
administration.
I was, I was very lucky, andthey got me tested because they
thought maybe I had a learningdisability.
But I didn't have a learningdisability.
What I didn't have was basicskills.
I got through the first 12years in school without anyone
(15:24):
noticing, and I went to, andthat's why I did the quotes
earlier, without anyone noticingthat I didn't have the basic
schools to make it through myfreshman year in college.
And so I bring that to youbecause I am I don't know, I
might have to cut this all out.
I'm a little embarrassed now,but no, no.
What you're talking about, thishybrid situation.
(15:45):
How do you think it would havehelped someone like myself, or
how do you see it helping?
I think on your website yousaid marginalized.
I'm just gonna say poor.
Uh also poor uh students.
How does this help them?
Chris Linder (16:03):
I would say it's not necessarily poor students.
When I say marginalized, I meanstudents from black, brown,
indigenous families, uh studentswho may be LGBTQ, students who
are neurodivergent, students whoare not, you know, don't fit in
(16:26):
neatly to that that round holethat education is trying to jam
these square pegs in.
Carmen Lezeth (16:34):
Okay.
Chris Linder (16:34):
So all of those all of those kids um who are
not, you know, your your typicalDick and Jane mainstream kids.
Okay, that's families, and andthat's that's actually the
majority of families, themajority of families.
And it's because theeducational system is is
(16:57):
designed to really it's reallydesigned to not um to not train
and produce the best and thebrightest.
It's designed to produce aworkforce that knows how to
follow directions and may readat a fifth or sixth sixth grade
(17:19):
reading level, um, doesn't havecritical thinking skills because
that's not necessary to have uha labor job.
Carmen Lezeth (17:29):
Um is that factual what you're saying?
Chris Linder (17:33):
It's factual and it's it's been the case for 125
years.
That's why the education systemhasn't really changed.
Carmen Lezeth (17:42):
But isn't that sad that that's what we're
training?
Chris Linder (17:46):
It's it's sad unless you're uh a member of the
oligarchy and you're wondering,well, where am I gonna get you
know uh more people to work?
Labor force.
Where am I gonna get uh bodiesto fill my factories or my farms
um so that you know I think anentrepreneur can make a lot of
(18:07):
money.
Carmen Lezeth (18:07):
Okay, but then why oh then that's why we make
it so hard for people to go tocollege.
That's why we make uh I just Ijust had a light bulb moment.
Chris Linder (18:16):
Yeah, and that and that's the truth.
And you know, once in a while,I mean, you know, statistic
statistics are that, you know,once in a while a few will slip
through the cracks andaccidentally thrive,
accidentally go to college.
But even that is becomingharder and harder now.
It's much harder to pay forcollege, it's becoming harder to
(18:38):
get into college.
Carmen Lezeth (18:40):
No, absolutely.
And that's why I started, and Isaid I I was one of the lucky
ones because I actually got thehelp I needed immediately and
was able to work with theprofessors that were like like
here's some simple things.
Like I couldn't take timedtests.
So if you if you said to me,Carmen, I want you to answer
(19:02):
every question in front of me infront of the class, I was game,
I could do it.
But for some reason, there wasthat thing where it was timed, I
froze, I couldn't remember.
I so all of these littlethings.
And I keep thinking, like whenI was reading up on you, the
ability to have had a one-on-onewith a parent or an adult, or I
(19:23):
mean, why don't you tell memore about what your program
does before I start telling youwhat I wished I had?
Chris Linder (19:29):
Sure.
You know?
Um, I guess the big thing iswe're not trying to change
education, the educationalsystem from the inside out.
Um my mission is to let parentsknow that while the system may
not be working as well as itshould be, ultimately the
(19:52):
responsibility and the power tomake a positive change for your
young person is in your hands asthe parent.
Um, and what hybridhomeschooling is, um let me let
me back up.
What full-time homeschoolingis, is saying, okay, I'm gonna
withdraw my student from schooland I'm gonna take on the burden
(20:14):
of teaching them each and everysubject at home.
And that actually works for alot of people.
It doesn't work for a lot ofpeople from marginalized
communities, and I'm not, andagain, it's not just poor
communities, but like I know I'mI'm struggling with it just
(20:36):
because I'm like everyone youjust mentioned is poor.
Carmen Lezeth (20:39):
But I I get it because because are okay, I
understand when when when yousay marginalized communities, I
guess I'm trying not to use thebuzzwords that turn people off
because people don't like tohear minority, marginalized,
right?
That that's especially nooffense to my audience.
Yeah, my audience tends to notbe this group, so that's part of
(20:59):
it.
But the but aren't mostmarginalized people that we're
talking about people that don'thave tons of money?
They might not be poor, they'llbe maybe middle class, but they
don't have the kind of money tohave.
Chris Linder (21:16):
It's you know, single parents, yes, they don't
have time to to to full-timehomeschool their kids.
Even dual income parents, ifthey're both at work, they don't
have time for full-timehomeschooling.
Carmen Lezeth (21:29):
But but nobody's saying that full-time
homeschooling is better thantraditional school, right?
That's not what you're saying.
Chris Linder (21:36):
It's it's six of one, half a dozen of the other.
I mean, both in both cases,there's a lot, there's a lot
wrong with the traditionaleducational system, but there's
a lot right with it too.
Um, and with homeschooling, uh,it's great for a lot of people.
Uh, for some people, theirtheir kids still isn't gonna
get, you know, they're there arecertain things that they're not
(21:58):
going to figure out.
Teaching is hard.
And we learned this duringCOVID.
The professional teachers whowent to school to learn the
science of teaching, you know,they're actually doing a great
job with what they're given.
But they're given on a dailybasis, they're given, they're
given 125 students, you know, 20or 25 at a time, all with
(22:25):
different personalities, allgoing through puberty, you know,
all having their own issues,their own trauma that they're
dealing with.
Carmen Lezeth (22:34):
Yeah, the ratio is just wrong.
It's always been wrong.
Even when I was in school, theratio of teacher to students was
too much.
It always has been.
Chris Linder (22:42):
Yes, and they're just, you know, and it's just
getting worse as they, you know,reduce funding to schools or
bring in things like uh schoolchoice or voucher programs, um,
diverting tax money away frompublic schools, putting them
into private schools, which canafford to be exclusionary.
Um, they can, you know, decidewhether or not your kid fits
(23:07):
their profile and should beadmitted to their school and so
on.
But um, but no.
Uh with parents, what they needto realize is um homeschooling,
full-time homeschooling isn'tfor everybody.
Carmen Lezeth (23:21):
Right.
Chris Linder (23:22):
But traditional school and just leaving it up to
the state to educate yourstudent in everything that they
need to know, that's not foranybody.
Because there will be thingsthat your student isn't going
to, your child isn't gonna learnin school.
Right.
You know, and it, you know, allyou can do is try to identify
(23:43):
those things and teach them athome with targeted home
learning.
And that's what hybrid homelearning is.
Carmen Lezeth (23:51):
This is what you do.
Chris Linder (23:52):
And so it's all about.
Carmen Lezeth (23:54):
So why don't we talk about what would be first
of all, if people want to findout more about what you do, what
is the website again?
Chris Linder (24:02):
It's homeschoolremix.com.
Carmen Lez (24:07):
Homeschoolremix.com, and I'll make sure to put that
down at the bottom, but also forthe audio, I just want people
to hear it as well.
What would be the first thingsomeone should do if they want
to find out more about what youoffer?
Chris Linder (24:20):
Look around on the site.
Um, we are in the process ofbuilding a community called the
Seat Squad, which is all aboutsupport, educate, adapt, and
thrive.
It's all about bringingtogether um families who are
either just beginning inhomeschooling or in homeschool
(24:43):
veterans, uh, bringing themtogether with counselors and
educators, and just buildingcommunity through through
homeschooling.
Because the one the number onereason people don't really
homeschool is because if theyget started, they're worried
(25:03):
that they won't be able to haveany support whatsoever.
Carmen Lezeth (25:08):
Um but you're not advocating just for
homeschooling, you're saying, soyou know what, can you tell me
more about what a day in thelight of your program would be?
Maybe we should go there.
So I understand it better.
Chris Linder (25:20):
Okay, so so hybrid homeschooling or homeschool
remix, this framework isbasically giving a parent,
putting it back into theirhands, the control of education,
saying that you know what,leave your kids in school.
You can leave them enrolledeither full-time or in some
(25:42):
states they allow you to allowyou to do it two or three days a
week, and then figure out whatthey're not getting in school,
teach that to them either, youknow, an hour a day or a few
hours a week.
And that way you're notdevoting all of your time to
homeschooling.
Um, you're bridging the gap,you're filling in what they're
(26:06):
not getting in school with homelessons.
Carmen Lezeth (26:09):
I feel like what you might be talking about is
getting parents back involvedwith also not just dropping off
their kids in school, leaving itto the schools to try to teach
them everything, and then expectthem to come out perfect and
ready for college or whatever itis their trade school or
whatever it is they're going tobe doing.
Chris Linder (26:27):
That's exactly what I'm saying.
That's exactly what I'm saying.
Like taking the responsibilityof educating your kids and
helping them to thrive, takingthat on, partnering with your
teachers, partnering with youryour school district, your
school system, and saying, hey,you know, it's not it's not
parents versus teachers.
(26:48):
It's not who's gonna be thebetter teacher, it's how can we
both cooperate so that ourstudent can turn out the best.
Carmen Lezeth (27:00):
And not fall through the cracks and not end
up in a situation, I mean, lookit, I'm completely, absolutely
blessed.
I've had a perfect, wonderfullife, right?
I don't mean to make it sound.
But when I think about thestruggles that I went through,
and if it wasn't for all theright people who stepped in, I
would have fallen through thecracks because they didn't have
those basics.
And so what you're talkingabout is that if a parent is
(27:22):
involved in their child'seducation and understands what
they don't know, what theirchildren are not learning,
whether it's what is a mortgage,whether it's not understanding
reading and comprehension oralgebra, when you can see what
your child is doing and notdoing, you can give them a much
better, stronger education sothat they actually succeed.
Chris Linder (27:45):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And that's and that's reallythe whole point.
And the secret of it is youhave to, as a parent, you have
to model how to learn.
You have to let them know thatyou know what, I don't know
everything, but we can figure itout.
I can, you know, read, I canresearch, I can ask questions.
(28:11):
If you can model that for yourchild, they'll be fine.
If you can incorporate criticalthinking into everything that
they do, whether it's schoolworkor or home lessons.
Carmen Lezeth (28:26):
So I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you a question because
I think we use these words andpeople don't know what it really
means.
What does critical thinkingmean?
Like, what do you mean by that?
Can you give us an example?
Chris Linder (28:38):
Sure.
Um critical thinking is reallywhat it looks like is you asking
open-ended questions as a as alearner, as a person who is
going through life, you need toask questions like, why is this
important?
Why is this happening?
What is the reason for this?
(28:59):
And then, you know, lettingthose questions, instead of just
taking something at face valueand going, well, I guess that's
the way things should be.
Carmen Lezeth (29:08):
And and and it's kind of the because I learned
what critical thinking was whenI was in college.
And that's way too late.
But that's when I started, it'snot too late.
It's never too late to learn.
But you can you can help yourchildren so much better if you
could take some of thisinformation that we're sharing
here.
Um, here's the thing iscritical thinking is also the
(29:29):
difference between memorizingand actually understanding
something.
That's what it is for me.
Chris Linder (29:35):
Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (29:35):
When you actually understand something, you are
curious.
You keep asking more questions.
You go down that rabbit holebecause you really want to fully
understand it.
And some of the things that Iwas doing, um, and I'm using
myself as an example, notbecause I want to keep sharing
every single personal thingabout myself as we do my shows,
but it seems to be part of whathappens, is because I want
people to people have an ideathat everybody has this life.
(29:59):
That they have and it was soeasy, or it was like whatever,
everybody has a struggle.
unknown (30:04):
Sure.
Chris Linder (30:04):
And when I love the fact that you're making the
connections because that's whatthat's what critical thinking
is.
Carmen Lezeth (30:10):
Yes.
Chris Linder (30:10):
You know, being able to, you know, here's a
fact.
And then you making making aconnection to your life.
That's what it that's what it'sall about.
So yes, please.
Carmen Lezeth (30:19):
Well, because I want people to relate to it too.
I think people need tounderstand that everything isn't
magical.
But if you're just memorizingthings, if you're just hearing
somebody else say it and thenyou're regurgitating it, you're
just repeating it.
Hmm, we can talk about that onanother level, but and you're
not fully understanding it inall the layers, you're not being
(30:40):
a critical thinker.
Chris Linder (30:42):
That's fair enough.
And unfortunately, that's anepidemic that uh that all you
have to do is look at the newsand you know where that gets us
if we're not critical thinking.
If we're just listening to uhsound bites and bumper stickers,
you know, we're not going tothink about when someone tells
(31:08):
us what they consider to be afact.
We're not going to oralternative facts.
Carmen Lezeth (31:14):
Please don't feel hesitant unless it's up to you.
You don't have to feel hesitantabout getting into politics at
all because this is yourinterview.
I'm just saying.
Um, because I know where you'regoing with this.
I mean, for me, and and we dohave an you can't help but go
with go there, you know?
Yeah, you can't help it.
I mean, that's part of theother reason why I wanted you on
the show is like it's soimportant to be an educated
(31:34):
human being.
And if we can understand thatchildren need that at the
beginning, and how can youfigure out different ways?
I feel like a lot of parentsuse, and and again, as an
observer, an observer, useschool as a babysitting place.
They don't understand the valueof getting a good education.
(31:57):
You're gonna find out later onif you don't take.
I'm sorry to be so mean aboutit because I know you seem nicer
about it, but I feel veryadamant that I see so many kids
falling through the cracksbecause their parents are not
involved at all.
There's no adult involved intheir schooling.
Chris Linder (32:16):
Yeah, it's it's a shame.
It's just it's sad.
But yeah, that's that's exactlyright.
Parents need to really, I mean,it's easy for us to sit here
and say, oh, parents need tolearn to do this, parents need
to do that.
But when you're working afull-time job as a parent, the
last thing you want to do issay, wait, you mean I can't I
(32:36):
can't just leave my kid atschool and and trust that
they'll learn.
I have to do it myself.
I have to do that myself too.
And it's it's tough, it's hard.
Carmen Lezeth (32:45):
I look at, and I have very I have zero sympathy
because I am the meanest person.
Here's the thing (32:51):
I made a choice not to have children.
There are pros and cons ofthat.
You made a choice to havechildren, there are pros and
cons of that, but there areresponsibilities as well.
Yeah, and I only say it becauseof my situation, the way I grew
up, and and I am gonna keepbringing it back to that is I I
could have easily fallen throughthe cracks and I didn't.
(33:13):
But there are so many otherpeople who had a worse beginning
in their lives than I did,right?
Even though we all have ourstory, but they didn't get the
luxury that I got that peoplewere there to just make sure I
walked on through no matterwhat.
Chris Linder (33:29):
Right.
Carmen Lezeth (33:30):
It shouldn't be a chance, it shouldn't be that we
all need to do our part to takecare of the children around us.
And I think that's the otherpart of it too.
Like, this is me doing my partfor all children.
unknown (33:41):
Okay.
Carmen Lezeth (33:41):
Like having Chris on the show is another thing
I'm trying to do.
Um, let me ask you thisquestion.
There are concerns like from umhomeschooling advocates about
your program.
What do you say to them?
I mean, you've kind of alreadytouched on it a bit, but what's
like the sound bite you want togive to people who are saying
(34:03):
no, no?
Chris Linder (34:04):
People who are people who are against
homeschooling or people who arefor traditional homeschooling.
Carmen Lezeth (34:11):
So yeah, so I have two questions, but I guess
we've already talked about letme let me let me start over.
How do you answer critiquesfrom traditional homeschoolers?
They say it's too structured.
There's um some feel hybridmodels mimic private school too
closely, or curriculum controland some hybrid setups, the
program, not the parent, choosesthe curriculum and the
(34:33):
assignments, which can feelrestrictive.
unknown (34:37):
Sure.
Carmen Lezeth (34:38):
That's a better way to ask that question.
I apologize.
Chris Linder (34:40):
No, no, and I I totally understand what uh what
I've done with my framework ismade it so that you you're not
locked into a specific program'scurriculum.
I think the flexibility andfreedom of curriculum is really
key, especially for, and I knowwe we keep saying this,
(35:02):
especially for marginalizedcommunities, um, for black
students, brown students, and soon, who need to see themselves
reflected in the subjects andtopics, things that they study.
Um, they're not gonna get thatin your standard textbooks off
the shelves.
Um so you have to be creativeas a parent to actually just you
(35:28):
know look for and adapt lessonplans and curriculum that that
reflect you and your culture,your own culture, as well as a
diverse uh overarching culturethat you're able to give more of
a perspective on.
So I push back on anybody who'ssaying that uh a hybrid
(35:54):
homeschooling is restrictive asfar as curriculum or restrictive
as far as structure.
Uh the structure comes from thetraditional school.
You as a parent um use that forstructure, but you also are
flexible enough to do whateverfits your unique needs in your
(36:19):
family, you know, for that forthat homeschool part.
Carmen Lezeth (36:23):
Can you give an example of how culturally like
how culturally significant youmight infuse something in a
subject that your child mightneed that would not be in a
traditional, I don't know,whether it's algebra or history.
I mean, history would probablybe the easiest one, right?
So you would use a history bookand they would be talking
(36:47):
about, let's say, theConfederacy or something, right?
Or they'd be talking just aboutcivil rights or whatever it is,
sure.
And you would give the otherlens, but where would you get
that information if you're notfully?
I mean, anyways, you see whatI'm trying to get at.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Because here's the thing.
I want you to explain it towhite folk.
I'm gonna say it is my show.
You see what I'm saying?
(37:07):
Because they hear the buzzwordsand what do you mean?
What do you mean?
So, what do you mean when yousay that?
Chris Linder (37:13):
Luckily, we have the universe at our fingertips
now with computers.
Um, even and I know that thisis a very divisive word, AI.
Um, I love it.
There's no reason, right?
There's no reason for you notto be able to have information
(37:35):
about whatever subject you'reteaching, or whatever subject
your student needs to get thishelp in.
If you're uh obviously withhistory, um and be before I go
any further, if you're going touse AI to devise lesson plans
(37:56):
and and so on, double triplecheck your sources.
AI is notorious forhallucinating, and you know,
it's basically crowd-funded, youknow, okay.
Carmen Lezeth (38:08):
But does homeschool remix and the
community you have there wouldhelp with that?
So let's say I was like, okay,I'm teaching my niece about
history and I don't know enoughabout what happened, whatever.
I don't know.
Okay, I can go to your websiteand maybe what happens?
I go to your website, I cancontact someone.
How does it work?
Chris Linder (38:28):
Go to the website, you can you can get a copy of
the book, Homeschool Remix,which basically outlines the
framework.
But yes, join the community,um, post in the community, ask
questions, say you need helpwith it's a little bit uh it's
similar to a Facebook group, butpeople there are are you know
(38:52):
they've gone through it so theycan help you with it.
And I guarantee you, if youhave this question, there's
other people that are alsowondering the same thing, and
somebody has solved it with umhistory, for example.
Um, one of the things that Ilike to uh suggest as a
curriculum is um a book.
(39:15):
It's actually a curriculumcalled Woke Homeschooling.
Carmen Lezeth (39:19):
Okay, that's gonna turn off every single
person listening.
But you know what?
No, it shouldn't.
I love it.
I love it because I always saythis all the time.
Like they're just abusing theword woke in all the wrong ways.
Like, I would rather be wokethan not woke because that means
I'm sleeping.
Like, anyways, go ahead.
I'm sorry.
We need to say that I'm likeding ding ding ding ding.
Chris Linder (39:39):
I get that.
That's one of those that's oneof those words.
But again, with the power oflanguage, we can't let words
that mean one thing be redefinedas something opposite, and
that's exactly what's beingdone.
With and now they're they'redemonizing DEI.
Well, they've been doing that,right?
Critical race theory, which isnothing nothing about what they
(40:03):
describe it as.
And they're trying to demonizewoke.
Carmen Lezeth (40:07):
And well, it goes back to being a critical
thinker, right?
It goes back to being someonewho doesn't just look at the
surface of things and actuallydigs deep and understands and I
always say the nuance of things,you know.
But it's so much easier to justhave stuff thrown at you and
(40:28):
just believing it because hesaid it or she said it than to
actually go through it.
Chris Linder (40:34):
And there's so much stuff being blasted at you
on a daily basis from people ofauthority, which makes it worse.
It's it's it's what he realizedthat as a Republican, what they
need to do is just throw allthese different things at you,
and you don't have time toreact.
(40:55):
You don't have time to reallythink each thing through.
And you know, you may be youknow focusing on you know the
the $200 million 90,000 squarefoot ballroom, and that will
that will take your focus awayfrom the fact that there's armed
and masked men kidnappingAmerican citizens off the
(41:18):
street.
That's right, you know, and andthat's going to distract you
from the Epstein files, right?
Carmen Lezeth (41:25):
Which is really all we all want is the Epstein
files right now at this moment.
Because now he's made it.
No, no, come on, because now Ididn't care at all before all of
this, but now that he's made itsuch a big deal, I want to see
it.
Chris Linder (41:39):
But let me go back to the All we really want is is
someone to just take the theveil of ignorance off of the
entire country, yeah, and so wecan start singing brand new day,
like at the end of the whiz.
Carmen Lezeth (41:55):
I know, right?
Chris Linder (41:56):
Oh, I would love to know the wicked witches, you
know, Evelyn has gone into herbig toilet.
Carmen Lezeth (42:02):
No, I know, I know.
Chris Linder (42:03):
That's what we really want.
We want an end to this.
Whether it happens in Novemberof next year or two years later,
or you know, I want an end tothis now because I'm tired.
Carmen Lezeth (42:14):
It's true.
Yes.
But but here's the thing whileall this is happening, while
people are, you know, beingupset about words they don't
understand because they're notusing critical theory, like, you
know, um I'm sorry, criticalthinking, like DEI or woke or
whatever, what's actuallyhappening is your children are
the ones who are losing outbecause they're not learning
(42:36):
anything.
They're not figuring it out,they're not getting the
education that they need to get.
And that that scares me.
I also want to give a shout outto teachers because what I also
love about you is um you have alot of love for teachers, of
course.
Now I understand even more sowhy.
Uh, but I do think at somepoint we need to have the
(42:58):
conversation when we have sanityback.
Teachers need to be not onlypaid well, but supported.
Like, and I mean supported notjust also financially, but I
remember, and I don't remembermuch about my mom, but my mom at
one point was helping, she wasa teacher's aide, along with
being a housekeeper.
So she would go into theschools and act as an assistant
(43:22):
to the classroom.
And and the only reason why Iwould know is because Catholic
school would have all theseholidays, right?
And I would have to go withher.
So I we I either go with herwhen she was housekeeping or
when she would go to the school.
They don't have that anymore,right?
They don't have the help thatteachers need.
Chris Linder (43:38):
They do have teachers' aids.
Um, but again, because of thethe the funding and budget cuts
that are rampant, a lot ofdistricts can't afford to to to
hire as many teachers' aides asthey as they would have in the
past, right?
So yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (43:56):
Wow, it's been so great to have you on the show.
We haven't even gotten throughthe second list of questions,
but um, let me just ask you onelast one.
What's next for you?
What do you see as kind of thelegacy of this program, or what
is the next steps for you andyour organization?
Chris Linder (44:14):
I've got to figure out, we have to figure out a
way to make education go viral.
unknown (44:24):
I love that.
Chris Linder (44:26):
Trying to figure out how to change people's
minds, parents' minds, families'minds, and again, it doesn't
matter what color or anythinglike that.
Just for them to realize thatit's gonna take a while for us
to A, figure all this, all thisstuff out, and B, fix it after
(44:49):
it's done, after that brand newday arrives, there's gonna be a
lot of things to fix.
But meanwhile, our students aregetting older, our students are
going to you know reach 12thgrade and graduate.
So we can't pause education.
We can't you know hope hopethat, well, maybe in the next
(45:11):
five years we'll decide that theDepartment of Education is
actually important.
Well, maybe we shouldn't getrid of it.
My goodness.
You know, we have to take uh thethe control of education back
from the institutions and intothe hands of families.
(45:32):
Yeah.
And and it has to be a it hasto be a fundamental switch in
people's heads that they realizeit's education is way too
important for my kid to gowithout it, and it's my
responsibility to make sure theyget it, and it's my
responsibility to make sure thatthey're equipped when they
(45:55):
graduate to go through withcritical thinking, to be able to
have choices after theygraduate of what kind of job
they want.
Because, like I come down onyou know, the educational system
pouring out, putting out labor,you know, laborers as is that
that's the goal of it.
And there's nothing wrong withbeing a laborer, there's nothing
(46:19):
wrong with working in a factoryor in a field.
Um do what you want to do, dowhat you like to do, but you
should have a choice.
Your your kids should have achoice as to what they want to
be, and it shouldn't be that youknow the administration or
(46:39):
whomever decides that, well,because your student is fill in
the blank, they're only good tobe a laborer, or they're only
good to have this kind of job orthat kind of position, or
you're talking about to get intocollege.
Carmen Lezeth (46:56):
Yeah, yeah.
You're you're talking aboutreal wealth.
I'm not talking about moneywealth, you're talking about the
wealth of choices, the abilityto make a decision.
I have one nephew who isdeciding, along with his
parents, not to go to college,but instead to go to trade
school and learn to become anelectrician because that's what
he wants to do.
And I thought it was sobrilliant because he's thinking
(47:19):
about the future and AI and whathe really wants to be doing.
And it's like, but he has awealth of choices because his
parents have been so involved inhis education that the choice
not to go to college and to goto trade school is wealth.
That is a wealth of a choice tobe able to make along with his
parents.
(47:39):
So and very smart, reallysmart, especially with AI, yeah.
Chris Linder (47:45):
With the whole 10 years ago or 15 years ago, we
wanted everybody to learn to becoders.
Carmen Lezeth (47:50):
Yeah.
Chris Linder (47:51):
You know, but but now it's like, well, yeah, maybe
maybe actually working withyour hands is a is a good
choice.
Carmen Lezeth (47:59):
Is a good choice, especially if that's what you
like to do.
But again, you're not gonnaknow that if you don't have and
I I'm gonna say this one thing.
I think the relationshipbetween parent and children,
like their children, is soimportant.
And people think that justbecause they have children, they
actually have thatrelationship.
And part of what you're talkingabout is you have to care about
(48:22):
your child's education.
It's like and and I internalizethat.
Yes, yes, I'm a little enviousof it.
But I think that's what that'swhat I got from reading about
you and learning about you waslike we need to care more about
what's happening with ourchildren when it comes to
education and not hoping that uha teacher who is trying to take
(48:43):
care of 75 children um is goingto teach them everything, no
matter how great that teacheris, you know.
Chris Linder (48:49):
So it's not like it is in the movies.
Carmen Lezeth (48:53):
No, not well, not at all.
No, but um, but Chris, thankyou so much for being here.
I appreciate it.
I hope you'll come back andmaybe we can have you come back
with uh the rest of the crew ifyou'd like to do that.
Um we could talk a little bitmore and see.
They all have children, so Ikind of like that I had this
special time with you because wecould have this conversation.
(49:14):
Um, but that might be somethingif you were willing to do it.
Chris Linder (49:17):
You know, I'm totally willing.
Yes, yes, let's do it.
Carmen Lezeth (49:20):
So, everyone, um, remember it's Chris Linder.
The name of the website ishomeschoolremix.com.
What's the name of the book?
Chris Linder (49:27):
Uh, the book's called Homeschool Remix.
Carmen Lezeth (49:30):
You can find it on the website.
Oh, and what else?
I'm sorry.
Yes.
Oh, I'm gonna start saying thatmore often actually to support
your local bookstores becausethat's true.
We really do need to.
Um, what else were you gonnasay?
Chris Linder (49:47):
Uh our community is called the seat squad, and
it's it's called that because wepractice folding chair
homeschooling, which isbasically finding free and
low-cost um resources to to usewhile hybrid homeschooling.
Um, and it comes from theShirley Chisholm quote if they
(50:08):
don't find if they don't have aseat for you at the table, bring
a folding chair.
Yeah, bring a folding chair.
Carmen Lezeth (50:14):
Oh, that's great.
I was trying to figure out howthe folding chair came in.
Got it.
That's great.
Chris Linder (50:20):
There's a bunch of ways for you to spend a whole
lot of money homeschooling, butif you're smart about it,
there's no reason why you haveto spend a lot of money.
A lot of money.
Yeah.
Carmen Lezeth (50:32):
Check out the website, get in touch with
Chris, and um, yeah, thank you,everyone.
Chris, thank you so much.
And remember, at the end of theday, it really is all about the
joy.
Thank you, everyone.
Bye.
Thanks for stopping by, AllAbout the Joy.
Be better and stay beautiful,folks.
Have a sweet day.
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