January 25, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of "And Now, Love," Cynthia Marks and Dr. Lauren Dolinsky revisit the theme of the feminine unconscious and its profound role in personal growth and healing. They explore how the balance between masculine and feminine energies impacts emotional health, relationships, and our ability to connect authentically with ourselves and others. Lauren explains how dream analysis helps individuals uncover hidden truths about their inner world, providing tools to navigate the complexities of inherited trauma and generational imprints. This episode offers insights into how dreams act as guides for transformation, showing us how to reclaim the parts of ourselves that have been lost or suppressed. Cynthia and Lauren share poignant examples of dream symbolism, emphasizing the courage it takes to face the unconscious and its deep-rooted messages. This heartfelt discussion inspires listeners to explore their own feelings and dreams as a path to true emotional freedom.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks.
I head up the Holistic
Psychoanalysis Foundationestablished by my late husband, Dr.
Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
We are welcoming back Dr.
Lauren Dolinsky today.
Lauren is a psychotherapistwith a practice here in Los Angeles.
(00:26):
She has an incredible understanding of Dr.
Bail's work, a love of the processand its life changing outcome.
Lauren so generously shares her knowledgeand her feelings
about the knowledgewith such eloquence and grace.
So hello, Lauren, and thank you.
Thank you for coming back again.
(00:47):
Thank you for having me.
Today, we're planning to further discuss
the feminine our feelings side.
Please give us a brief description,if you wouldn't mind.
I know we've gone over this before.
The difference between the feminineand the masculine and what those terms
mean in terms of this work.
Yeah.
So, you know, the way we use them here
(01:08):
is it's not really about gender,so we're not talking about man woman.
We're talking about parts of any person.
And so the feminine, when we talk aboutthe feminine, we're talking about
the feeling side of a person,the intuitive side, the receptive side.
That's what we meanwhen we talk about the feminine.
So sometimes just say the feelings side,and then the masculine
(01:31):
is the more intellectual side.
You know, all those other thingsgoing out and doing.
Whereas the feminine is receptive.
Being feeling.
So, yeah,we're talking about that again today.
And to that, I feel like a lot of ushave come to sort of stereotypical.
We think of the feminineas meaning the weaker part of us.
(01:53):
How did we get to that?
We talked a little bit last timeabout how I think for almost everybody,
that side of a personhas been very devalued, shut down,
puts asleep in a lot of ways.
There hasn't been a lot of valueplaced on the feeling part of a person.
And that shows upin a lot of different ways.
And I thought, you know,after our conversation last time,
(02:15):
maybe we could elaborate on and clarifycertain things, because we did talk about
when people are a bit disconnectedfrom the feelings side.
And I think maybe some peoplecould have had the understanding of,
they're just talkingabout people who are numb
or maybe they use substancesand they're not really feeling much.
They just feel a disconnection.
(02:35):
So today I thought we could talka little more about actually, there's
probably plenty of people listeningwho would go, That's not me.
I feel a ton of things.
I feel everything.
In fact,I feel, you know, an overflow of things.
And it's too much. It's too much.
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think a lot of usmight have been listening and going,
(02:56):
Don't we all have some right?
That's not me.
I feel a lot of things. So. Great. Great.
Yeah.
So, you know, the question becomes,what is the person feeling?
Because what we talked aboutis how ideally the feeling
part of a person can be usedto guide the person in their life.
It becomes a compass for somebody.
If if we have a healthy feeling side.
(03:19):
But so many people, andespecially if there are a lot of feelings
in overabundanceand maybe people are riddled with anxiety
or or fear pain,a lot of the negative feelings
we see that what they're actually feeling
is an overflow, usually from the parentsunconscious.
Often, you know, first moms, maybe dadsto really depends on the person.
(03:43):
So really what's happening
is that it gets a little confusingmaybe for people sometimes
because they're not necessarilyusing their own feelings.
And can you give an exampleof how that might present itself?
I mean, it shows up inso many different ways, but a lot of times
what happens when there is that overwhelmor the overflow?
(04:05):
Is it often comeswith a certain confusion, like,
why am I always having thisemotional experience?
Right.
And what what we're looking atis then the mind becomes so clouded
with the toxicity of the overflow
that you can't really use those feelingsas a compass.
It needs some cleaning upto see who we even have there.
(04:26):
Right.
Because there, you know, the exampleof someone unconsciously really
being a parent, all of a suddenthey might even catch themselves in that.
I could just hear my mother'svoice coming out, hear my father's anger,
whatever it is.
And so we don'tactually have the real person.
So you have to move mountainsto eventually be able
(04:47):
to discern between the two, betweenwhat am I really feeling
versus what I thinkI'm feeling or a feeling They're not.
My feelings are somebody else's feelings.
We lived a life one way all this time.
Right.How do you know the difference? Right.
That's where the dreams really can help.
That's where the dreams can help.
And that that takes time tobecause everybody's so different.
(05:11):
So everybody has their own unique
individual story and emotional storyof what happened to them.
So as we get the dreams, we startto clear things up and we start to see.
That actually
sounds more like mom,that actually sounds more like dad.
And we start to clear things outbecause people have been so inundated.
(05:33):
And the dreams might initially even show.
I hear lots of for instance, people willhave recurring tidal wave dreams, right?
They're just inundated.
And there is an overflow.
A really common one, too,that you'll hear is a bathroom.
Maybe there's a toilet, a gross dirtybathroom with a clogged up toilet.
(05:54):
That's just overflowing.
You wake up thinking,Why am I dreaming that?
Yeah.
And it's not a good feeling to go.
I have nowhere to go.
I have nowhere to go.So you have a dream like that.
And when we start to think about whatthat actually means, what is the overflow
of toxic, yucky junkthat now is in this person's mind?
(06:14):
Now they have to deal with.
That's a pretty common dream.
That's a pretty common dream.
I mean, most peoplehave had some version of that dream
where the plumbing has just gone wrongand there's an overflow.
It's gross.
You know,there's not a working bathroom. Right.
And you have no choicebut to be in that space.
You're just in it and feeling stucklike I have nowhere to go.
(06:37):
So, you know what?
Oftentimes a dream like that is showingis that
the person didn't have anywhereto really relieve themselves
of all this overflow of whatthey were feeling, maybe mom or dad
or whoever was too preoccupiedwith their own overflow
(06:57):
of emotional material, whatever it is,
that there's no real place to go,cleanse themselves, relieve themselves.
And what.
Yeah, what we will see in timetoo, is a good therapy.
It's not so glamorous,but sometimes we become the working toilet
or the working bathroom.
That's where people can comeand relieve themselves
(07:19):
of the toxic materialthey don't need to carry anymore too.
That would it be that withoutgoing through this process of
doing this, each generation
just piles on more, There's a pile up,there's an absolute pile up.
And so that's what we talk about a lotin this work, because people will get very
protective of their parents and think,you know, they're not bad people.
(07:42):
They didn't really do this.
But we have to look at what's happenedgenerationally.
Right.
And humans have just been through so much.
Can't deny. It.
You can't deny it.
So this feeling, part of a person
has just been through
an enormous amount generationally.
So a lot of times when that feelingpart of a person gets so overwhelmed
(08:07):
that you can't even really use itbecause you go, it's just too much.
It's because there has been suchan overflow generationally.
Now, this is a popular conversationright now.
People understand that there's such athing as generational trauma, epigenetics,
all of these things are becoming moreand more known and talked about.
(08:29):
So again, we just see that the way it'stransmitted is via
the imprint, it's via the unconscious.
But that information coming fromthat knowledge about epigenetics
and generational traumais all for the good.
Yeah, it's helping us.
we have to know.
We have to know what we've been through.
(08:49):
There's been too much denial.
It just doesn't work.
Masculine and feminine.
A lot of what people will do isthey will turn to the masculine,
the intellect, to try and cover upall the damage that's been done
to the feelingpart of the self generationally.
So we have a lot of very smart people
(09:10):
who who don't know how to dealwith this part of themselves,
of their livesin this way, of their family,
of the emotional worlds of the children,you know, of what they got
from the parents.
It ends up making a big mess and theintellect just can't solve it on its own.
A person can be so smart, so, so smart.
(09:31):
And unless we start really attending towhat's happened
to that feeling side,nothing really changes.
You were speaking of youknow, we're in denial.
So oftentimes
about our feelings where they came fromor didn't come from and the trauma.
And I feel like a lot of us work really,really hard to protect our parents.
(09:55):
Not just in the womb or in infancy,but throughout our lives, right?
That's right.
Does this happenwhere someone's in therapy with you and.
And the first thingsthey might want to talk about it.
Everything was fine.
I left my parents.
They love me. That's all. Good.
So check that off.We don't have to go there, right?
all the time.
(10:16):
Does it help patientswhen you look back further generationally
or even at the history of the worldand you say,
look at these thingsthat we're doing as humanity?
I mean, why wouldn't that just continueto shift
down to the very base of your family?
(10:37):
Of my family?
Does that make it easier for people to
acceptthat maybe everything wasn't perfect?
I think so.
I think a lot of timeswhat can help people kind of bridge
that gap is we think aboutwhat was it like
for your parent,let's say, mom as a child in her family?
Chances are, it just wasn't perfect.
(10:59):
There's something.
There's something.And we take that idea back.
So what did Mom have to experience?
What did she have to hold?
What did she go through?
Like all of those thingsstay with a person.
They don't just magically,even if she grows up to be a pretty
lovely person and have a marriage,have a life, have a career,
all of these things,there's still an unconscious there
(11:23):
that has been throughwhat it's been through.
And those things are felt.
Those things are felt.
So it's not that all of a sudden
we're going to discoverthat mom was actually a monster.
She's actually a really scary, bad personbecause I think a lot of people worry,
What are we doing here?
Like,I don't want to talk bad about my family.
Yeah, that's the last thingmost of us want to do. Yeah.
(11:45):
You know, I mean, there are of course,there's cases where there's obvious
difficulty, there's obvious abuse,there's obvious illness,
and and people can come in and go, Look,this was really hard.
And then, okay,we start there and look at what happened.
But like you said, there often are timeswhere people go that part was okay,
but then we have to make sense of, okay,so what what are you struggling with now?
(12:07):
What are the difficultiesand what's underneath all of that?
Because it gets confusing for people.
People will start to think it's just me.
I'm just the problem.
And the
purpose is not to just blame the parents.
The purpose is not to be like,you're not the problem.
It was your parents or the problem.
We just look at the realityof what's been passed down
(12:28):
and how much a person is carryingthat's not serving them,
that's preventing themfrom really getting to be themselves.
What Dr.
Bail discoveredis that we have a real crisis.
There's truly an epidemic of peoplenot really
getting to be themselves,not really getting to be themselves.
(12:50):
They don't know that they've had to take
on so much from this unconscious overflowso that actually they
in order to survive it, they said, okay,okay, mom, I'll take this on.
And for my own survival,I'm actually going to become you.
That's how I survive.
(13:11):
And sometimes they go to dad.
There's other influences as well.
Everybody influences everybody.
We focus a lot on mom and dadbecause those are the big figures.
Usually in a family.
Obviously every family is different.
There's different players we have to see.
There's all kinds of thingsthat can happen.
But we're talking really basicallybecause getting back to basics, what Dr.
(13:34):
Bail was talking aboutis that when we come into this life,
our very, very firstcontact is with the mother in the womb.
That's the first contact, right?
And that a lot actually happens there.
It's not just a lot of people think it'sjust this blissful time.
You're just developing,growing and swimming around.
(13:56):
You know, you're enveloped in loveand it's warm and it's beautiful.
And then you come out into this harsh,cruel world and then the trouble starts.
It's not actuallyyour already experiencing
all of the troubles of the worldvia mom's unconscious.
So Mom's and all of her unprocessed
(14:16):
material, all the things she hasn't
attended to in her life,all the unaddressed pain.
And again,generationally, generation, really.
She's lived a full human life,and so did her parents,
and so did those parents and backgenerationally.
And there's a lot then thatthis little being that is developing in
(14:39):
the womb is being hit with hencea tidal wave being completely inundated.
And I want to be careful, too,because I talk a lot about like big dream
themes that show uplike the clogged bathroom or a tidal wave.
And we have to look at the specific dreambecause sometimes,
you know, a tidal wavemight actually be a reconnecting
(15:00):
to feeling that might be overwhelmingand like, my God, I've been disconnected.
Now here comes a bunch of feeling.
So it depends on the individual.
We have to look at what's happeningwith their life, their dream,
their story,and their associations to the dream.
Because one thing that I thinkis worth clarifying about the dreams
and getting in touch with this feeling,part of the person
(15:21):
and the feminine unconsciousbecause in Doctor Bill's work,
the feminine unconscious is so keyto a person's healing.
That's the most healing, nourishing
part of the psychethat that's where real healing comes from.
We're talking about that.
That's the archetypal nourishing mother.
(15:42):
It connected the spiritto connected the spirit.
So he neededus, wants us to all have sort of
constant access to that part of ourselves,if we can.
That would be so helpfulIf we can have access
to that part of our mind,that really helps us.
For one, we get to be more ourselves
(16:05):
and we start as we clear outsome of this trash.
What happens isthere's more space internally
for the person to be themselves.
So they might you're still goingto have internal mom, an internal dad.
You're just not always unconsciously
going to them in any given situation.
(16:27):
And like now we've got mom in the room,now we've got dad
in the room instead of now we've got you.
Yeah, we've got the person.
But so when we have a dream though,what we really need,
because I think sometimes when we talkabout this, people might think,
you know, therapists like us are justwe have the magic keys and we hear a dream
and we can just unlock the secretsand, well, we'll heal you.
(16:51):
We plug in some information.
We plug in info, I'll tell you everythingyou need to know, and then we carry on.
And on some level,that would be really nice.
That would be so. Nice, right?
That would be so nice.
And look,
sometimes, of course,sometimes I hear dreams
and I get a very strong senseof what I'm listening to.
But there's stillthere's always a process.
I need to hear what the person thinksabout their dream,
(17:14):
what they feel about it.
I want all of their associations,the person,
a patient, and this kind of workis really put to work.
I need them engaged with it.
If they're going to get somewherewith this work.
It's not just me telling a personwhat their dream means.
And this is the therapy.
Now we're putting your mind on itbecause this is
(17:35):
the deepest part of you saying,Hey, listen, I have a message
and we want you to startto expand your mind.
This is how a mind is grown.
This is how maturation happens.
This this is yeah, this is emotionaldevelopment.
Is getting a personto think about what their unconscious
(17:57):
wants them to know about their own life,you know, And the dreams will detail
your entire life experiencefrom the perspective of your unconscious.
That gets hard for people too,because I'll go, I know my story.
I can tell you from start to finish, youknow, consciously what I've been through.
And good, good.
We want you to have a good understandingof your conscious story,
(18:19):
let's say unconsciously,to what you've experienced,
because you've got these two parts,just like we have masculine and feminine,
we have conscious and unconscious,and then to go even deeper,
the unconscious has a masculineunconscious and a feminine.
I know.
So there's all these layers, right?
(18:39):
It's wonderful. It's beautiful, right?We're so complex.
We have multitudes. That is beautiful.
So should I even ask, what is thedifference between the masculine
unconscious and the feminine unconsciousis that big topic for another day we.
Can talk about it a little bitnow, maybe come back to it as needed.
But it's a similar ideaas what I was saying
about masculine and femininein the conscious world.
(19:02):
It's the intellectual side
of the unconsciousand the feeling side of the unconscious.
So it's just those same ideasabout the analytical, intellectual,
more masculine, versusthe more feeling and intuitive feminine.
It's just that it's the unconscious part,the part that the person doesn't know
(19:23):
about, depending on how much resistancethere is to feeling.
A lot of times people will startwith the masculine unconscious
and you're still kind ofworking in the intellect
arenabecause the feelings are so protected.
Would what Dr.
Male would call the internal saboteurbe part of the masculine unconscious?
(19:44):
That's a good question.I don't know what he would say.
If it's.
If it's one or the other, it's.
It's just the force in the mindthat's protecting the imprint
from really being known,understood and changed.
Right.
Because the mind an imprint isis so powerful
and it gets so linkedinitially with survival
(20:06):
that a person will feelif we start to monkey
with this and change it,I'm going to die in it, kill me.
So the saboteur actually comes into protect the person
from having to re-experience pain,
from having to go through all thosedifficult things that we got rid of.
We got rid of that stuff, right?Look how you're doing.
(20:27):
You haven't had your go there.
You're fine with it.
Yeah, but the problem is a person itso long as that's
still in placeand functioning in the unconscious,
a person isn'treally getting to be themselves.
And they're stuck with all these patternsin their life that they don't get.
They don't understand why,and they don't know that there's
(20:49):
this thing happening in their unconsciousthat's creating a lot of trouble.
So that's the real work, right?
Is wrestlingwith what you're allowed to know
about this part of yourselfand how much you're allowed to change it.
If I knew unconsciously from the onset
that I needed to kind of keep the status
(21:09):
quo, let's say with my dad.
I would unconsciously be saying,
Why don't you just act like dad?
Because if you act like dad,
you can't be doing anything wrongin his eyes because you basically are him.
So is that like a starting pointwhere I try to pick
an avenue to keep myself safeand keep him safe?
(21:34):
Because nowhe's not going to have to be upset with me
or get on my case or feel threatened by mebecause I'm just like him.
That could be look,that's that's a pretty specific but also,
I think probably a lot of peoplecould relate to that example.
So if we have a dad who'shas those sort of authoritarian qualities
(21:54):
and it's my way or the highway andyou better fall in line, then absolutely.
That could be you learnedunconsciously in order for me to get love.
Because also whatall of this comes down to is love, right?
Is love. And survival.
But it's an inverted version of love.
It's not real love.
It isn't. It's not real love.
(22:16):
And that'swhat is so important for people to get,
because what happens isthey have this convoluted idea of love
and then they go out
and find relationshipswhere they're re-experience seeing love.
And guess what it is? It's not love.
It's not love. And people wonder why?
Why this again?
(22:37):
Why this again?
To answer your question. Yeah.
And then unconsciously go,okay, Dad, I go.
I guess I better, you know, be you.
I better do things like you because that'show I stay connected to you.
That's how I get your approval.
You're going to love me.You're going to take care of me.
Stay safe this way.
But that's then hard on the person It is.
Yeah, too hard on the person.
(22:58):
So, you know,a lot of what we see is in the feelings
side of a person as it's been throughwhat it's been through and endured
what it's endured,a lot of ideas get flipped.
So a lot of really importantideas are twisted upside down.
We talked a little bit last timeabout how feeling,
(23:20):
which is such an essential partof a person,
the feeling part is so essential,gets turned into something
really threatening and scaryand something to be avoided at all costs.
And you will see all manner of dreamswhere one feeling comes in.
Maybe it's portrayedas like a big, scary animal.
I mean, last time we talked about,you know, the spider that gets beaten
(23:43):
and it's portrayed in such a way where
it's bad, where it's bad,and that's upside down.
That's upside down.
And then we have all kinds of things.
Then they get turned on their head.
And this is why then the person
might not be able to use their feelings
self as a compass or guidebecause things are too twisted around.
(24:05):
You don't have a good compassif you've made something
that's not love into love,which is so common,
that's so common,you are not going to have a good compass.
You are going to thinkyou're going towards love
and guess what you're going to find.
So this is why we want todo a lot of clean up work.
(24:26):
We're often this therapy.
We see themes a lotwhen people start to do it of like
they're coming to class,they're coming to school,
they're coming at night school,they're doing swimming lessons.
Maybe because we're learninghow to get in the water,
which is the unconsciousand feeling the feeling part.
So people start to learn
how to navigate the Serena and they startto learn how the mind works.
(24:49):
It is fascinatingbecause as you're saying,
all that as Bernardand I talked about our dreams,
it was kind of the same scenariothat you're describing where, you know,
first I started with all the big scaryanimals chasing me.
Wild. Yeah.
And airplanes crashing and the bathroomthat you can't get out of.
That's right.
And then all of a suddenI was back in school,
(25:11):
and it's justeverything that you're saying.
That's right. That's right.
It's really a back and forth, too.
It's also it's not a clear pathbecause there's so much wrestling
that happens along the way.
So it's not like all of a suddenyou come to school, this is cleaned up
and you're good.
There'ssuch a back and forth all the time.
And that's just part of the process.
That's how the mind learns and grows.
(25:32):
We have to revisit these thingsbecause usually by the time
someone comes and talks to me,they're already however old they are.
They've had this in placefor their entire life.
So it takes the minda long time to start to,
first of all, open them, tell the story,and really wrestle with something new.
(25:54):
Yeah, there's a reasonwhy real deep, deep change is hard.
It's hard.
And I think we just on a very basic level,
don't even knowthat we have the luxury of such a thing.
I mean, isyour life is what it is what it is all.
Day long. Right?
And why would you think otherwise?
I mean, I'm living my life.
(26:15):
I'm feeling my feelings, I think.
Right, Right.
And yeah, like, a lot of people will thinkI'm feeling my feelings.
I don't know what you're talking about.This is me.
And we go, okay, We just look at thedreams and see what the actual story is.
And sometimes we seethat the person's feelings
self is actually,you know, this little wounded animal
(26:36):
that's been neglecteda very, very long time.
And there's lots of imagerythroughout the dreams that show
a lot of neglect,a lot where, you know, dying vines
and arid deserts and a lack of wateror a lack of sustenance, no food.
There's so many things that can pointto just an undernourished middle
of this part, and that's pretty universal.
(26:58):
It makes sense.
And I mean, it just it's so fascinatingthat we all have these images
that are representing feelingsand similar feelings.
They're just like this gift.
They're just so well, they'reinaccessible, but yet very accessible.
Right.
And in like,what am I feeling at any given point?
And this is confusing what's happening.
(27:19):
And I want to highlight what you saidabout the luxury of having this,
because being understood in this waytruly is a luxury.
It's a luxury.
Obviously, we're trying to get the wordout more about this.
Yeah, right.
But it's such a luxuryto have this understanding.
And we will see that in the dreams, too,that people will point to the luxury
(27:42):
of being able to do this. I see.
But what can also happen and often happensis that when things are turned upside
down, what the person does isthey will turn the pain,
they will turn the imprintinto a luxury item.
That you have to protect.
And yeah,and it came from mom and it came from dad,
you know,especially like this is a luxurious gift.
(28:05):
Yeah, this is a luxurious gift.What do you mean?
What do you mean?
So I have a dream I could tell youthat shows some of these inversions
that happen.
This is a dream from a patientwho was already.
This is like a middle of a treatment.
So a couple of years, two or three years
into a treatmentand a very engaged treatment.
(28:27):
And so the dream takes placedeep in the ocean
and, you know, no land in sight,deep in the ocean, there's
this vehicle coming apartand the parts are flying everywhere.
And the patient feelsshe's going to be killed by these parts.
Coming up, she's swimming in the ocean.
Swimming the ocean,seeing this thing being dismantled.
(28:48):
And she has this sensethat it's this luxury vehicle
like she thinks it's a Porsche Cayenne.
So like really nice carbut feels she's going to be killed.
And then the other thing in the dreamand she sees a cushion
in the shape of a clamshell,and that's the dream.
So it's a really interesting dreambecause so
first of all, in inyou know, I'm summarizing.
(29:11):
There's a lot of back and forth thathappens to understand what's going on.
But we've got itset deep, deep, deep in the ocean.
So that already tells uswe're going deep into the unconscious.
The ocean tends to be the unconscious.
So we're deep in there now.
Something's being dismantled.
Again, this is a person who'swell into their treatment.
(29:33):
So this is about an imprint coming apart.
But guess what?She thinks it's going to kill her.
Taking this apart is going to kill me.
And it's a luxury vehicle. Right?
So this is a really good example of howthings get turned upside down in the mind.
It's not a luxury vehicle.
It's a luxury getting this understood.
(29:53):
There's that piece,but that that's an imprint.
You want that dismantledand it's not going to kill you.
It's going to save you. Dismantling.
And that imprint is going to allow youto be you, to be you.
But you see, it feels like a death.
It feels like being killed.
And it often shows that we geta lot of death imagery and dying imagery.
(30:16):
And, you know, sometimes it's a parentbeing killed or sometimes the person,
because these things in the mindneed to die.
That's a real transformation,
right?
So we have that coming apart.
And then we get a little hint, too,about this clamshell.
So that was a really interesting thingbecause the clamshell, it turns out,
(30:36):
could go both ways because for one,clams are very primitive creatures.
They're bivalves.
So it's talking about a traumathat happened at the most primitive layer.
But the actual clamshellwas reminiscent of Birth of Venus.
So we've got the idea that there'sgoing to be a birth of Venus.
Venus is the feminine.
Venusis the ultimate symbol of the feminine.
(30:58):
So if you can actually start to dismantle
this imprint,guess what you're making space for.
But you get to see how confusing it isfor people,
why you need a good guide along the way.
Because, you know,this is why people will leave a treatment
and go, You're trying to kill me.
Yeah, I understand.
But because you can sort of sensethat that traumatic experience
(31:21):
that was for her and that these piecesof this vehicle are coming at.
Her, it's a nightmare.
I mean, this was experiencedas a nightmare, right?
This was a terrifying dreamwhere she thought she was going to die.
You know, it's not like,
yeah, we're taking apart my imprintand now I get to be me.
And this is wonderful.
Like, this is really terrifying.
Through her sessionswith you and your interpretation together,
(31:44):
she's able to feel that.
Yeah, I understand itintellectually, and yes, I feel it.
And then by feeling that she can move on
or incorporatethat more in to who she really is, yeah.
She's going to have to wrestlewith that. Right.
Because again, when we're talkingabout feelings, the feeling here,
(32:07):
the feeling is terror,the feeling is I'm going to be killed.
So this is where an understandingof feeling really comes in,
because we need to help clear up your mindand go, no, no, here, no, here.
This is the deepest,most primitive part of you
trying to protect something very toxic.
But you turned it into somethingvery nice, right?
(32:29):
It's good that it's coming apart. So you.
You need helpclarifying the process for the person.
And, you know, maybe, though,it takes a lot of faith,
it takes a lot of faith in the biggerprocess.
It's not about, you know, me,you have to have faith in me,
but in the processthat we're getting somewhere.
So, you know, knowing what we knowabout how the mind works,
(32:51):
this person needed to hold onto a great deal of faith that, okay,
I'm not actually being killed.
This is this is good.
That's tough.
It takes a lot of courage and.
It takes a lot of courage.
I mean, I was sharing with you
this morning my dream about the sharksand how frightening it was.
I thought I was going to die.
I thought my children were going to die.
And instead of facingand I just woke myself up.
(33:14):
Yeah.
And I, of course, went, Darn,I shouldn't be having these dreams, but.
It's better to have the dreambecause it's better that we all face
the reality of what's therein the unconscious.
We've gone too longtrying to pretend it's fine, right?
Look at the state of the world.
Yeah, it's not fine.
Not at all.
So it's better that we're dealing withwhat's actually in there
(33:35):
as each individual startsto clean this stuff
up in their mind,it has a ripple effect around them.
The people in their lives
will be impacted by the improvementsthey're making better.
You have the dream with the sharks,so you know, it's always better to know.
Knowing that and then feeling that I'mnot not okay, that that doesn't turn me
(33:58):
into something that needs a lot of workif I just settle with it and say,
okay, Cynthia, you had this dream,it was big and scary.
You woke yourself up and it's it's potent.
So it hasn't left me yet.
Yeah, I can help myself to some degreeby paying attention to that dream
(34:18):
and continuing to feel it andthink about it and the parts and pieces.
Yeah, you you will want to startto make connections for yourself.
Okay.
What were the big, scarysharks in your life?
Yeah, right.
What are we talking about here?
What was so scary?
You know, that's what we would be doing ina treatment is talking about what?
What the sharks really are.
(34:40):
Is it that every dream that an individualhas is also a dream for the world?
We all are connected.
So a lot of times,especially a dream like that?
I think so.
A lot of timesthe dream reflects a collective experience
since we're all humansand we all go through what we go through.
So we all are connected.
(35:01):
But you know, most importantly,when why we do it this way in a treatment
is there's going to be somethingvery specific in the dream for the Dreamer
about their unique experience,their unique life story.
And that's why we can't just say, go,go to a dream journal or go to a,
you know, a dream dictionary and look upthe symbols and see what your dream means.
(35:24):
Plenty of people will come to go.
I Googled this dreamand I Googled this and I and
there might be, you know,some layers of truth and there are some
some collective symbolsthat we often all experience,
but it's very unique to a person's life.
There's going to be somethingabout the dream that specific
about their life storythat needs some real examination,
(35:47):
and that's what their mind wants to know.
Every dream is in serviceto the growth of the mind.
And your unconscious, as is
through your dreams, really trying
to get you to come back to your ownfeeling.
Yeah. To stay connected to yourself.
To stay connected to yourself,your story, understanding,
(36:10):
doing your work, cleaning upyour side of the street, you know,
so that we can see when these things onceyou start to get to know the terrain
of your unconscious,then you're more familiar with it.
So when you have certain dreams, youstart to go, okay, I know what's going on.
I know what happened in my lifethat made this show up.
And, you know, you can really startto get a clear picture
(36:33):
of what's happeningand you can attend to it as needed.
I see.
So you can say, all right,so I see these guys are coming back again.
Why are they showing up right now?
What's happening?
Yeah, you can make sense of it witheverything that's going on around you.
And if you know the dream is, like yousaid, it's trying to get your attention,
so it's going,hey, here's something I want you to know.
(36:56):
Here's a message that's important to us,and it usually has an emotional component
to it. So.
So let's see what that is,what needs attention.
Is there more to clear out?
You know, is there more to release?Let go of?
What does my mind want to knowso that I can grow and be more me?
And that's a lifelong process, right?
It's a lifelong. Process.
(37:17):
But but I guess that onceyou start to see some success,
have these feelings that, you knoware yours to have, you only want more?
Yeah, I think once you startreally getting connected.
So we talked about, okay, so there's anoverflow people can get so confused.
I'm overwhelmed all the time.
I keep having these negativeemotional experiences.
(37:38):
I'm not numb.
I feel a lot,but I'm having these painful experiences.
Once enough is cleared outthat we get a better sense of the story
and what's really going onand what's sitting underneath
all of those experiencesand who's really at play here.
Who do we really have?
And we've done a lot of workto start to clean that up.
(37:58):
The person usually becomes
less confused, less overwhelmed.
That's when you really startto get the feeling part of a person
working for the person because nowand people around them will feel
because you can usually feel when someonehas more space, has more emotional space,
there's a safety, there's a warmth,there's a natural compassion.
(38:22):
Yeah, we have to start with the self.
So it always starts with having moreunderstanding of the self.
But guess what's going to follow?
You have more understandingof everybody around you.
You start to go,I understand why they're doing this.
That makes sense to me.
Now I know more about how the mind works,so I see what's happening
and inevitably,hopefully we have more compassion, right?
(38:43):
Because we see what everyone is carryingand what everyone's going through.
And there's just so many reenactmentseverywhere.
But we started to see ita little more clearly,
and that is where we get the feelings sideguiding us.
I feel like that happened to me.
Look, I'm talking about myself todayin that perhaps I had an intellectual
(39:05):
understanding of what empathy wasand I knew what that should look like.
And I could speak to the people dear to me
and offer up some kind of empathy.
But then through this work and it wasit was really quite stunning.
I mean, it was really noticeable.
(39:26):
I had a couple of experienceswhere I where I was with people
that are my friends and they
shared experiencesthat were really troubling.
And I had goose bumpsand other times I couldn't help it.
I just began to cry.
And that didn't happen to me before.
Just telling you that gives me goose bumpsbecause it's it's
(39:47):
like this beautiful gift to be ableto feel that connected with other people.
That's right.
A beautiful gift.
I live so long. Really.
Without that.
Yeah.
And, I mean, I just want all of usto be able to have that gorgeous feeling.
Yeah.
What you're describing is trueemotional availability.
(40:10):
Those turns get used a lot.
Like peoplewant an emotionally available partner.
Yes. When they're dating. Right.
But I don't know how much we havea real understanding of what that means.
So what you're describing,when you can use your feelings
to connect to somebody else,that's an emotional availability.
I think a lot of us are sayingthat's what we want,
(40:31):
but we don't really know what that is.
That's right.
Well, it's what you describe like a lot ofpeople try to do it with their intellect
because they don't knowwhat's happened to their feelings side.
They don't know This is not well known.
Again, a lot of people thinkI feel I'm moved by things.
I went to the moviesand this made me cry and, you know, and
(40:53):
because I feel all this,I have my feelings.
But there's so much moreI understand some of this
might sound confusing to people,but what we want people to know
is there's so much more going onin the unconscious
and you're feeling selfhas gone through so much.
So that's where we want to really startto clean things up for people, right?
(41:16):
So that they can havethose cleaner interactions there.
We're all humans,so things happen and get messy,
but if there's a reenactment of somethingthat's happening,
you'll see it a little more clearly.
You'll know what's happening.
You can take better responsibilityfor your part in something.
You can see what's happening.
And take better care of yourself,take better care of.
(41:38):
Ourselves and others around you.
You'll take bettercare of the people in your life.
So really, in helping humanityin the best way to help
humanity, it'ssort of like one individual at a time,
killing us,
getting us to our feelings,undoing our trauma so that we can come
(41:58):
from a place of love and maybe makesomeone else curious about that.
We would hope so.
I mean, I think that was Dr.
Bails hope that's why this is called.And now love. Yes.
Because we need to clean up our collectiveunderstanding of what love is.
And to do that, we have to get very clear
(42:19):
and very realistic about what is not love,what is not love?
What if we had to turn into lovethat wasn't love?
And that's so much of what the process is.
And how to feel that it's okay
to stop pretending that that's lovefor the sake of the other
people around youthat want to pretend it's.
(42:42):
Love.
It asks a lot of peoplebecause a lot of times what people
to come to terms with is that they weren'treally loved even by the nicest parents.
That's what's confusing for people, right?
And I was so lovedand we have to get a better understanding.
Okay.
So tell me what your experience was.
(43:03):
What did your life feel like to you?
We have to clean up the partsthat weren't love.
It's not that there was no love.
Maybe there was some love.
And whenever there is genuine loveand understanding and all that good stuff,
that doesn't hurt a person.
Love doesn't imprintin the way that we're talking about.
Not that kind of imprint.
It only helps. It only heals.
(43:24):
So there's no work to be done there?
No, We want space more.
We want space for more.
So like you say, this is about how we growand evolve as as people.
Hopefully collectively, right?
This is how we become more lovingas humans for all of humanity.
(43:44):
Right?
And and it takes getting very real
about what's not love
and cleaning that up in our own mindsbecause we all carry it.
We all carry a lot of lives.
We've, we've all had to take inand really swallow
unconsciously so much so muchthat is not love.
(44:06):
So I think getting as as clearand honest about that
as possible is better for everybody.
It's better for everyoneis certainly better for the person.
It's just, you know,you're asking people to face a lot.
Yes. If you're like me,if you consider that
and you think, well,if I really feel that that was not love
(44:28):
and I've been pretendingto have that love,
and I say, okay, that wasn't love.
There's this big hole.
There's this big hole.
What goes there?I think that's super scary.
Super scary.
Kind of like the dream is just.
Exactly If we dismantle this,if we dismantle this
fake version of love, this luxury vehicle.
(44:49):
There is nothing. There. Then what?
Then the person gets killed.
That's actually a good thing.
We want the fake self.
The false self, the personthat's not really the person to die.
You know, the ID being,you know, more mom or being more dead.
All of that has to die for the personto really get to be themselves.
(45:11):
That's terrifying to have to do thisbecause it's like we say,
you actually might feel your dying
when we see it this way in a dreamand when we have feelings involved.
That's what Dr.
Bail was really so adamant about, becauseyou need the feeling part of the person
and we need the feminine unconsciousinvolved to to really facilitate change
(45:33):
because changealways has to touch the heart.
We can't think our way through it.
It doesn't work. We've tried.
Yeah, people have tried a very long timeto think
their way through these problemsand we can't do it now.
And it's becoming more and more clear.That's right.
It just doesn't work that way.
So I think so many of us still think
(45:56):
dreams are just nonsenseand we just close the door on them.
You wake up in the morningand you think, What the heck was that?
And you think, I just got to gobrush my teeth and get over it.
If we just could just open that door
and just say, okay,invite that in a little bit.
Yeah, just let me.
(46:16):
Just think about this.
Just start to think aboutand if we did that regularly,
we might startto get a sense of our true self.
Who we really are, Who we really are.Yeah.
You might be able to deal withsome of the things in our real world
that we could point to our dreamsas the source of the information.
(46:36):
Like you, you have this dream about thisbig scary bear
that and that scary bear representssome situation that you grew up with.
And then in the real world,you come across an event
that makes you feel that big, scary bearfeeling.
You can say.
This is the same feeling.
Is that what's happening in my worldthat's making me feel like this?
(46:59):
Is that sure you can draw connections,You also will get really in touch
with the more creative part of yourself.
I think a lot of problem solving.
I mean, we know for people, for artists,all of this
true creativity flowsfrom the unconscious.
So it doesn't mean that everyonehas to know this work specifically.
A lot of people are more attunedto that part of themselves
(47:21):
and they'll knowand some people will even say,
my God, I had a dream and an inspired,you know, whatever this work of art
or this this so many scientificdiscoveries have come from a dream.
It's something.
That is really.Something. Yeah, there's so many.
So we want people paying attentionbecause again, it's
not just to clear up your own stuff,which I think is very critical.
(47:42):
I mean, that'swhat we're doing in this work.
But also you'll be tapped in collectively.
You'll get all these wonderful,inspiring ideas.
You might even connect to Spiritif you're a spiritual person.
Dr. Bail is pretty adamant about that.
He really connects you to the source.
Yeah, that really connects you to Spirit.
Which I'd love to talk about morethoroughly At one point,
(48:02):
as well as the creative.
Because think about all the thingswe would have lost
if knowingly or unknowingly,that unconscious had not been tapped.
Yeah, well, this is pretty fascinating.
Again, thank you. This was really great.
I like that we sort of had a little narrowscope today.
(48:24):
Yeah, Hopefully, you know, ithelps clear up some things that we talked
about the first time that maybe neededto be elaborated on a little bit more.
I think so, too. Thank you very much.
It's my pleasure.
Thank you for listening.
And please knowthat your dreams are super precious.
Pay attention. See you next time.
Hi, I'm Cynthia Marks.
I head up the Holistic
Psychoanalysis Foundationestablished by my late husband, Dr.
Bernard Bail.
Welcome to And Now Love.
We are welcoming back Dr.
Lauren Dolinsky today.
Lauren is a psychotherapistwith a practice here in Los Angeles.
(00:26):
She has an incredible understanding of Dr.
Bail's work, a love of the processand its life changing outcome.
Lauren so generously shares her knowledgeand her feelings
about the knowledgewith such eloquence and grace.
So hello, Lauren, and thank you.
Thank you for coming back again.
(00:47):
Thank you for having me.
Today, we're planning to further discuss
the feminine our feelings side.
Please give us a brief description,if you wouldn't mind.
I know we've gone over this before.
The difference between the feminineand the masculine and what those terms
mean in terms of this work.
Yeah.
So, you know, the way we use them here
(01:08):
is it's not really about gender,so we're not talking about man woman.
We're talking about parts of any person.
And so the feminine, when we talk aboutthe feminine, we're talking about
the feeling side of a person,the intuitive side, the receptive side.
That's what we meanwhen we talk about the feminine.
So sometimes just say the feelings side,and then the masculine
(01:31):
is the more intellectual side.
You know, all those other thingsgoing out and doing.
Whereas the feminine is receptive.
Being feeling.
So, yeah,we're talking about that again today.
And to that, I feel like a lot of ushave come to sort of stereotypical.
We think of the feminineas meaning the weaker part of us.
(01:53):
How did we get to that?
We talked a little bit last timeabout how I think for almost everybody,
that side of a personhas been very devalued, shut down,
puts asleep in a lot of ways.
There hasn't been a lot of valueplaced on the feeling part of a person.
And that shows upin a lot of different ways.
And I thought, you know,after our conversation last time,
(02:15):
maybe we could elaborate on and clarifycertain things, because we did talk about
when people are a bit disconnectedfrom the feelings side.
And I think maybe some peoplecould have had the understanding of,
they're just talkingabout people who are numb
or maybe they use substancesand they're not really feeling much.
They just feel a disconnection.
(02:35):
So today I thought we could talka little more about actually, there's
probably plenty of people listeningwho would go, That's not me.
I feel a ton of things.
I feel everything.
In fact,I feel, you know, an overflow of things.
And it's too much. It's too much.
Yeah, I think you're right.
I think a lot of usmight have been listening and going,
(02:56):
Don't we all have some right?
That's not me.
I feel a lot of things. So. Great. Great.
Yeah.
So, you know, the question becomes,what is the person feeling?
Because what we talked aboutis how ideally the feeling
part of a person can be usedto guide the person in their life.
It becomes a compass for somebody.
If if we have a healthy feeling side.
(03:19):
But so many people, andespecially if there are a lot of feelings
in overabundanceand maybe people are riddled with anxiety
or or fear pain,a lot of the negative feelings
we see that what they're actually feeling
is an overflow, usually from the parentsunconscious.
Often, you know, first moms, maybe dadsto really depends on the person.
(03:43):
So really what's happening
is that it gets a little confusingmaybe for people sometimes
because they're not necessarilyusing their own feelings.
And can you give an exampleof how that might present itself?
I mean, it shows up inso many different ways, but a lot of times
what happens when there is that overwhelmor the overflow?
(04:05):
Is it often comeswith a certain confusion, like,
why am I always having thisemotional experience?
Right.
And what what we're looking atis then the mind becomes so clouded
with the toxicity of the overflow
that you can't really use those feelingsas a compass.
It needs some cleaning upto see who we even have there.
(04:26):
Right.
Because there, you know, the exampleof someone unconsciously really
being a parent, all of a suddenthey might even catch themselves in that.
I could just hear my mother'svoice coming out, hear my father's anger,
whatever it is.
And so we don'tactually have the real person.
So you have to move mountainsto eventually be able
(04:47):
to discern between the two, betweenwhat am I really feeling
versus what I thinkI'm feeling or a feeling They're not.
My feelings are somebody else's feelings.
We lived a life one way all this time.
Right.How do you know the difference? Right.
That's where the dreams really can help.
That's where the dreams can help.
And that that takes time tobecause everybody's so different.
(05:11):
So everybody has their own unique
individual story and emotional storyof what happened to them.
So as we get the dreams, we startto clear things up and we start to see.
That actually
sounds more like mom,that actually sounds more like dad.
And we start to clear things outbecause people have been so inundated.
(05:33):
And the dreams might initially even show.
I hear lots of for instance, people willhave recurring tidal wave dreams, right?
They're just inundated.
And there is an overflow.
A really common one, too,that you'll hear is a bathroom.
Maybe there's a toilet, a gross dirtybathroom with a clogged up toilet.
(05:54):
That's just overflowing.
You wake up thinking,Why am I dreaming that?
Yeah.
And it's not a good feeling to go.
I have nowhere to go.
I have nowhere to go.So you have a dream like that.
And when we start to think about whatthat actually means, what is the overflow
of toxic, yucky junkthat now is in this person's mind?
(06:14):
Now they have to deal with.
That's a pretty common dream.
That's a pretty common dream.
I mean, most peoplehave had some version of that dream
where the plumbing has just gone wrongand there's an overflow.
It's gross.
You know,there's not a working bathroom. Right.
And you have no choicebut to be in that space.
You're just in it and feeling stucklike I have nowhere to go.
(06:37):
So, you know what?
Oftentimes a dream like that is showingis that
the person didn't have anywhereto really relieve themselves
of all this overflow of whatthey were feeling, maybe mom or dad
or whoever was too preoccupiedwith their own overflow
(06:57):
of emotional material, whatever it is,
that there's no real place to go,cleanse themselves, relieve themselves.
And what.
Yeah, what we will see in timetoo, is a good therapy.
It's not so glamorous,but sometimes we become the working toilet
or the working bathroom.
That's where people can comeand relieve themselves
(07:19):
of the toxic materialthey don't need to carry anymore too.
That would it be that withoutgoing through this process of
doing this, each generation
just piles on more, There's a pile up,there's an absolute pile up.
And so that's what we talk about a lotin this work, because people will get very
protective of their parents and think,you know, they're not bad people.
(07:42):
They didn't really do this.
But we have to look at what's happenedgenerationally.
Right.
And humans have just been through so much.
Can't deny. It.
You can't deny it.
So this feeling, part of a person
has just been through
an enormous amount generationally.
So a lot of times when that feelingpart of a person gets so overwhelmed
(08:07):
that you can't even really use itbecause you go, it's just too much.
It's because there has been suchan overflow generationally.
Now, this is a popular conversationright now.
People understand that there's such athing as generational trauma, epigenetics,
all of these things are becoming moreand more known and talked about.
(08:29):
So again, we just see that the way it'stransmitted is via
the imprint, it's via the unconscious.
But that information coming fromthat knowledge about epigenetics
and generational traumais all for the good.
Yeah, it's helping us.
we have to know.
We have to know what we've been through.
(08:49):
There's been too much denial.
It just doesn't work.
Masculine and feminine.
A lot of what people will do isthey will turn to the masculine,
the intellect, to try and cover upall the damage that's been done
to the feelingpart of the self generationally.
So we have a lot of very smart people
(09:10):
who who don't know how to dealwith this part of themselves,
of their livesin this way, of their family,
of the emotional worlds of the children,you know, of what they got
from the parents.
It ends up making a big mess and theintellect just can't solve it on its own.
A person can be so smart, so, so smart.
(09:31):
And unless we start really attending towhat's happened
to that feeling side,nothing really changes.
You were speaking of youknow, we're in denial.
So oftentimes
about our feelings where they came fromor didn't come from and the trauma.
And I feel like a lot of us work really,really hard to protect our parents.
(09:55):
Not just in the womb or in infancy,but throughout our lives, right?
That's right.
Does this happenwhere someone's in therapy with you and.
And the first thingsthey might want to talk about it.
Everything was fine.
I left my parents.
They love me. That's all. Good.
So check that off.We don't have to go there, right?
all the time.
(10:16):
Does it help patientswhen you look back further generationally
or even at the history of the worldand you say,
look at these thingsthat we're doing as humanity?
I mean, why wouldn't that just continueto shift
down to the very base of your family?
(10:37):
Of my family?
Does that make it easier for people to
acceptthat maybe everything wasn't perfect?
I think so.
I think a lot of timeswhat can help people kind of bridge
that gap is we think aboutwhat was it like
for your parent,let's say, mom as a child in her family?
Chances are, it just wasn't perfect.
(10:59):
There's something.
There's something.And we take that idea back.
So what did Mom have to experience?
What did she have to hold?
What did she go through?
Like all of those thingsstay with a person.
They don't just magically,even if she grows up to be a pretty
lovely person and have a marriage,have a life, have a career,
all of these things,there's still an unconscious there
(11:23):
that has been throughwhat it's been through.
And those things are felt.
Those things are felt.
So it's not that all of a sudden
we're going to discoverthat mom was actually a monster.
She's actually a really scary, bad personbecause I think a lot of people worry,
What are we doing here?
Like,I don't want to talk bad about my family.
Yeah, that's the last thingmost of us want to do. Yeah.
(11:45):
You know, I mean, there are of course,there's cases where there's obvious
difficulty, there's obvious abuse,there's obvious illness,
and and people can come in and go, Look,this was really hard.
And then, okay,we start there and look at what happened.
But like you said, there often are timeswhere people go that part was okay,
but then we have to make sense of, okay,so what what are you struggling with now?
(12:07):
What are the difficultiesand what's underneath all of that?
Because it gets confusing for people.
People will start to think it's just me.
I'm just the problem.
And the
purpose is not to just blame the parents.
The purpose is not to be like,you're not the problem.
It was your parents or the problem.
We just look at the realityof what's been passed down
(12:28):
and how much a person is carryingthat's not serving them,
that's preventing themfrom really getting to be themselves.
What Dr.
Bail discoveredis that we have a real crisis.
There's truly an epidemic of peoplenot really
getting to be themselves,not really getting to be themselves.
(12:50):
They don't know that they've had to take
on so much from this unconscious overflowso that actually they
in order to survive it, they said, okay,okay, mom, I'll take this on.
And for my own survival,I'm actually going to become you.
That's how I survive.
(13:11):
And sometimes they go to dad.
There's other influences as well.
Everybody influences everybody.
We focus a lot on mom and dadbecause those are the big figures.
Usually in a family.
Obviously every family is different.
There's different players we have to see.
There's all kinds of thingsthat can happen.
But we're talking really basicallybecause getting back to basics, what Dr.
(13:34):
Bail was talking aboutis that when we come into this life,
our very, very firstcontact is with the mother in the womb.
That's the first contact, right?
And that a lot actually happens there.
It's not just a lot of people think it'sjust this blissful time.
You're just developing,growing and swimming around.
(13:56):
You know, you're enveloped in loveand it's warm and it's beautiful.
And then you come out into this harsh,cruel world and then the trouble starts.
It's not actuallyyour already experiencing
all of the troubles of the worldvia mom's unconscious.
So Mom's and all of her unprocessed
(14:16):
material, all the things she hasn't
attended to in her life,all the unaddressed pain.
And again,generationally, generation, really.
She's lived a full human life,and so did her parents,
and so did those parents and backgenerationally.
And there's a lot then thatthis little being that is developing in
(14:39):
the womb is being hit with hencea tidal wave being completely inundated.
And I want to be careful, too,because I talk a lot about like big dream
themes that show uplike the clogged bathroom or a tidal wave.
And we have to look at the specific dreambecause sometimes,
you know, a tidal wavemight actually be a reconnecting
(15:00):
to feeling that might be overwhelmingand like, my God, I've been disconnected.
Now here comes a bunch of feeling.
So it depends on the individual.
We have to look at what's happeningwith their life, their dream,
their story,and their associations to the dream.
Because one thing that I thinkis worth clarifying about the dreams
and getting in touch with this feeling,part of the person
(15:21):
and the feminine unconsciousbecause in Doctor Bill's work,
the feminine unconscious is so keyto a person's healing.
That's the most healing, nourishing
part of the psychethat that's where real healing comes from.
We're talking about that.
That's the archetypal nourishing mother.
(15:42):
It connected the spiritto connected the spirit.
So he neededus, wants us to all have sort of
constant access to that part of ourselves,if we can.
That would be so helpfulIf we can have access
to that part of our mind,that really helps us.
For one, we get to be more ourselves
(16:05):
and we start as we clear outsome of this trash.
What happens isthere's more space internally
for the person to be themselves.
So they might you're still goingto have internal mom, an internal dad.
You're just not always unconsciously
going to them in any given situation.
(16:27):
And like now we've got mom in the room,now we've got dad
in the room instead of now we've got you.
Yeah, we've got the person.
But so when we have a dream though,what we really need,
because I think sometimes when we talkabout this, people might think,
you know, therapists like us are justwe have the magic keys and we hear a dream
and we can just unlock the secretsand, well, we'll heal you.
(16:51):
We plug in some information.
We plug in info, I'll tell you everythingyou need to know, and then we carry on.
And on some level,that would be really nice.
That would be so. Nice, right?
That would be so nice.
And look,
sometimes, of course,sometimes I hear dreams
and I get a very strong senseof what I'm listening to.
But there's stillthere's always a process.
I need to hear what the person thinksabout their dream,
(17:14):
what they feel about it.
I want all of their associations,the person,
a patient, and this kind of workis really put to work.
I need them engaged with it.
If they're going to get somewherewith this work.
It's not just me telling a personwhat their dream means.
And this is the therapy.
Now we're putting your mind on itbecause this is
(17:35):
the deepest part of you saying,Hey, listen, I have a message
and we want you to startto expand your mind.
This is how a mind is grown.
This is how maturation happens.
This this is yeah, this is emotionaldevelopment.
Is getting a personto think about what their unconscious
(17:57):
wants them to know about their own life,you know, And the dreams will detail
your entire life experiencefrom the perspective of your unconscious.
That gets hard for people too,because I'll go, I know my story.
I can tell you from start to finish, youknow, consciously what I've been through.
And good, good.
We want you to have a good understandingof your conscious story,
(18:19):
let's say unconsciously,to what you've experienced,
because you've got these two parts,just like we have masculine and feminine,
we have conscious and unconscious,and then to go even deeper,
the unconscious has a masculineunconscious and a feminine.
I know.
So there's all these layers, right?
(18:39):
It's wonderful. It's beautiful, right?We're so complex.
We have multitudes. That is beautiful.
So should I even ask, what is thedifference between the masculine
unconscious and the feminine unconsciousis that big topic for another day we.
Can talk about it a little bitnow, maybe come back to it as needed.
But it's a similar ideaas what I was saying
about masculine and femininein the conscious world.
(19:02):
It's the intellectual side
of the unconsciousand the feeling side of the unconscious.
So it's just those same ideasabout the analytical, intellectual,
more masculine, versusthe more feeling and intuitive feminine.
It's just that it's the unconscious part,the part that the person doesn't know
(19:23):
about, depending on how much resistancethere is to feeling.
A lot of times people will startwith the masculine unconscious
and you're still kind ofworking in the intellect
arenabecause the feelings are so protected.
Would what Dr.
Male would call the internal saboteurbe part of the masculine unconscious?
(19:44):
That's a good question.I don't know what he would say.
If it's.
If it's one or the other, it's.
It's just the force in the mindthat's protecting the imprint
from really being known,understood and changed.
Right.
Because the mind an imprint isis so powerful
and it gets so linkedinitially with survival
(20:06):
that a person will feelif we start to monkey
with this and change it,I'm going to die in it, kill me.
So the saboteur actually comes into protect the person
from having to re-experience pain,
from having to go through all thosedifficult things that we got rid of.
We got rid of that stuff, right?Look how you're doing.
(20:27):
You haven't had your go there.
You're fine with it.
Yeah, but the problem is a person itso long as that's
still in placeand functioning in the unconscious,
a person isn'treally getting to be themselves.
And they're stuck with all these patternsin their life that they don't get.
They don't understand why,and they don't know that there's
(20:49):
this thing happening in their unconsciousthat's creating a lot of trouble.
So that's the real work, right?
Is wrestlingwith what you're allowed to know
about this part of yourselfand how much you're allowed to change it.
If I knew unconsciously from the onset
that I needed to kind of keep the status
(21:09):
quo, let's say with my dad.
I would unconsciously be saying,
Why don't you just act like dad?
Because if you act like dad,
you can't be doing anything wrongin his eyes because you basically are him.
So is that like a starting pointwhere I try to pick
an avenue to keep myself safeand keep him safe?
(21:34):
Because nowhe's not going to have to be upset with me
or get on my case or feel threatened by mebecause I'm just like him.
That could be look,that's that's a pretty specific but also,
I think probably a lot of peoplecould relate to that example.
So if we have a dad who'shas those sort of authoritarian qualities
(21:54):
and it's my way or the highway andyou better fall in line, then absolutely.
That could be you learnedunconsciously in order for me to get love.
Because also whatall of this comes down to is love, right?
Is love. And survival.
But it's an inverted version of love.
It's not real love.
It isn't. It's not real love.
(22:16):
And that'swhat is so important for people to get,
because what happens isthey have this convoluted idea of love
and then they go out
and find relationshipswhere they're re-experience seeing love.
And guess what it is? It's not love.
It's not love. And people wonder why?
Why this again?
(22:37):
Why this again?
To answer your question. Yeah.
And then unconsciously go,okay, Dad, I go.
I guess I better, you know, be you.
I better do things like you because that'show I stay connected to you.
That's how I get your approval.
You're going to love me.You're going to take care of me.
Stay safe this way.
But that's then hard on the person It is.
Yeah, too hard on the person.
(22:58):
So, you know,a lot of what we see is in the feelings
side of a person as it's been throughwhat it's been through and endured
what it's endured,a lot of ideas get flipped.
So a lot of really importantideas are twisted upside down.
We talked a little bit last timeabout how feeling,
(23:20):
which is such an essential partof a person,
the feeling part is so essential,gets turned into something
really threatening and scaryand something to be avoided at all costs.
And you will see all manner of dreamswhere one feeling comes in.
Maybe it's portrayedas like a big, scary animal.
I mean, last time we talked about,you know, the spider that gets beaten
(23:43):
and it's portrayed in such a way where
it's bad, where it's bad,and that's upside down.
That's upside down.
And then we have all kinds of things.
Then they get turned on their head.
And this is why then the person
might not be able to use their feelings
self as a compass or guidebecause things are too twisted around.
(24:05):
You don't have a good compassif you've made something
that's not love into love,which is so common,
that's so common,you are not going to have a good compass.
You are going to thinkyou're going towards love
and guess what you're going to find.
So this is why we want todo a lot of clean up work.
(24:26):
We're often this therapy.
We see themes a lotwhen people start to do it of like
they're coming to class,they're coming to school,
they're coming at night school,they're doing swimming lessons.
Maybe because we're learninghow to get in the water,
which is the unconsciousand feeling the feeling part.
So people start to learn
how to navigate the Serena and they startto learn how the mind works.
(24:49):
It is fascinatingbecause as you're saying,
all that as Bernardand I talked about our dreams,
it was kind of the same scenariothat you're describing where, you know,
first I started with all the big scaryanimals chasing me.
Wild. Yeah.
And airplanes crashing and the bathroomthat you can't get out of.
That's right.
And then all of a suddenI was back in school,
(25:11):
and it's justeverything that you're saying.
That's right. That's right.
It's really a back and forth, too.
It's also it's not a clear pathbecause there's so much wrestling
that happens along the way.
So it's not like all of a suddenyou come to school, this is cleaned up
and you're good.
There'ssuch a back and forth all the time.
And that's just part of the process.
That's how the mind learns and grows.
(25:32):
We have to revisit these thingsbecause usually by the time
someone comes and talks to me,they're already however old they are.
They've had this in placefor their entire life.
So it takes the minda long time to start to,
first of all, open them, tell the story,and really wrestle with something new.
(25:54):
Yeah, there's a reasonwhy real deep, deep change is hard.
It's hard.
And I think we just on a very basic level,
don't even knowthat we have the luxury of such a thing.
I mean, isyour life is what it is what it is all.
Day long. Right?
And why would you think otherwise?
I mean, I'm living my life.
(26:15):
I'm feeling my feelings, I think.
Right, Right.
And yeah, like, a lot of people will thinkI'm feeling my feelings.
I don't know what you're talking about.This is me.
And we go, okay, We just look at thedreams and see what the actual story is.
And sometimes we seethat the person's feelings
self is actually,you know, this little wounded animal
(26:36):
that's been neglecteda very, very long time.
And there's lots of imagerythroughout the dreams that show
a lot of neglect,a lot where, you know, dying vines
and arid deserts and a lack of wateror a lack of sustenance, no food.
There's so many things that can pointto just an undernourished middle
of this part, and that's pretty universal.
(26:58):
It makes sense.
And I mean, it just it's so fascinatingthat we all have these images
that are representing feelingsand similar feelings.
They're just like this gift.
They're just so well, they'reinaccessible, but yet very accessible.
Right.
And in like,what am I feeling at any given point?
And this is confusing what's happening.
(27:19):
And I want to highlight what you saidabout the luxury of having this,
because being understood in this waytruly is a luxury.
It's a luxury.
Obviously, we're trying to get the wordout more about this.
Yeah, right.
But it's such a luxuryto have this understanding.
And we will see that in the dreams, too,that people will point to the luxury
(27:42):
of being able to do this. I see.
But what can also happen and often happensis that when things are turned upside
down, what the person does isthey will turn the pain,
they will turn the imprintinto a luxury item.
That you have to protect.
And yeah,and it came from mom and it came from dad,
you know,especially like this is a luxurious gift.
(28:05):
Yeah, this is a luxurious gift.What do you mean?
What do you mean?
So I have a dream I could tell youthat shows some of these inversions
that happen.
This is a dream from a patientwho was already.
This is like a middle of a treatment.
So a couple of years, two or three years
into a treatmentand a very engaged treatment.
(28:27):
And so the dream takes placedeep in the ocean
and, you know, no land in sight,deep in the ocean, there's
this vehicle coming apartand the parts are flying everywhere.
And the patient feelsshe's going to be killed by these parts.
Coming up, she's swimming in the ocean.
Swimming the ocean,seeing this thing being dismantled.
(28:48):
And she has this sensethat it's this luxury vehicle
like she thinks it's a Porsche Cayenne.
So like really nice carbut feels she's going to be killed.
And then the other thing in the dreamand she sees a cushion
in the shape of a clamshell,and that's the dream.
So it's a really interesting dreambecause so
first of all, in inyou know, I'm summarizing.
(29:11):
There's a lot of back and forth thathappens to understand what's going on.
But we've got itset deep, deep, deep in the ocean.
So that already tells uswe're going deep into the unconscious.
The ocean tends to be the unconscious.
So we're deep in there now.
Something's being dismantled.
Again, this is a person who'swell into their treatment.
(29:33):
So this is about an imprint coming apart.
But guess what?She thinks it's going to kill her.
Taking this apart is going to kill me.
And it's a luxury vehicle. Right?
So this is a really good example of howthings get turned upside down in the mind.
It's not a luxury vehicle.
It's a luxury getting this understood.
(29:53):
There's that piece,but that that's an imprint.
You want that dismantledand it's not going to kill you.
It's going to save you. Dismantling.
And that imprint is going to allow youto be you, to be you.
But you see, it feels like a death.
It feels like being killed.
And it often shows that we geta lot of death imagery and dying imagery.
(30:16):
And, you know, sometimes it's a parentbeing killed or sometimes the person,
because these things in the mindneed to die.
That's a real transformation,
right?
So we have that coming apart.
And then we get a little hint, too,about this clamshell.
So that was a really interesting thingbecause the clamshell, it turns out,
(30:36):
could go both ways because for one,clams are very primitive creatures.
They're bivalves.
So it's talking about a traumathat happened at the most primitive layer.
But the actual clamshellwas reminiscent of Birth of Venus.
So we've got the idea that there'sgoing to be a birth of Venus.
Venus is the feminine.
Venusis the ultimate symbol of the feminine.
(30:58):
So if you can actually start to dismantle
this imprint,guess what you're making space for.
But you get to see how confusing it isfor people,
why you need a good guide along the way.
Because, you know,this is why people will leave a treatment
and go, You're trying to kill me.
Yeah, I understand.
But because you can sort of sensethat that traumatic experience
(31:21):
that was for her and that these piecesof this vehicle are coming at.
Her, it's a nightmare.
I mean, this was experiencedas a nightmare, right?
This was a terrifying dreamwhere she thought she was going to die.
You know, it's not like,
yeah, we're taking apart my imprintand now I get to be me.
And this is wonderful.
Like, this is really terrifying.
Through her sessionswith you and your interpretation together,
(31:44):
she's able to feel that.
Yeah, I understand itintellectually, and yes, I feel it.
And then by feeling that she can move on
or incorporatethat more in to who she really is, yeah.
She's going to have to wrestlewith that. Right.
Because again, when we're talkingabout feelings, the feeling here,
(32:07):
the feeling is terror,the feeling is I'm going to be killed.
So this is where an understandingof feeling really comes in,
because we need to help clear up your mindand go, no, no, here, no, here.
This is the deepest,most primitive part of you
trying to protect something very toxic.
But you turned it into somethingvery nice, right?
(32:29):
It's good that it's coming apart. So you.
You need helpclarifying the process for the person.
And, you know, maybe, though,it takes a lot of faith,
it takes a lot of faith in the biggerprocess.
It's not about, you know, me,you have to have faith in me,
but in the processthat we're getting somewhere.
So, you know, knowing what we knowabout how the mind works,
(32:51):
this person needed to hold onto a great deal of faith that, okay,
I'm not actually being killed.
This is this is good.
That's tough.
It takes a lot of courage and.
It takes a lot of courage.
I mean, I was sharing with you
this morning my dream about the sharksand how frightening it was.
I thought I was going to die.
I thought my children were going to die.
And instead of facingand I just woke myself up.
(33:14):
Yeah.
And I, of course, went, Darn,I shouldn't be having these dreams, but.
It's better to have the dreambecause it's better that we all face
the reality of what's therein the unconscious.
We've gone too longtrying to pretend it's fine, right?
Look at the state of the world.
Yeah, it's not fine.
Not at all.
So it's better that we're dealing withwhat's actually in there
(33:35):
as each individual startsto clean this stuff
up in their mind,it has a ripple effect around them.
The people in their lives
will be impacted by the improvementsthey're making better.
You have the dream with the sharks,so you know, it's always better to know.
Knowing that and then feeling that I'mnot not okay, that that doesn't turn me
(33:58):
into something that needs a lot of workif I just settle with it and say,
okay, Cynthia, you had this dream,it was big and scary.
You woke yourself up and it's it's potent.
So it hasn't left me yet.
Yeah, I can help myself to some degreeby paying attention to that dream
(34:18):
and continuing to feel it andthink about it and the parts and pieces.
Yeah, you you will want to startto make connections for yourself.
Okay.
What were the big, scarysharks in your life?
Yeah, right.
What are we talking about here?
What was so scary?
You know, that's what we would be doing ina treatment is talking about what?
What the sharks really are.
(34:40):
Is it that every dream that an individualhas is also a dream for the world?
We all are connected.
So a lot of times,especially a dream like that?
I think so.
A lot of timesthe dream reflects a collective experience
since we're all humansand we all go through what we go through.
So we all are connected.
(35:01):
But you know, most importantly,when why we do it this way in a treatment
is there's going to be somethingvery specific in the dream for the Dreamer
about their unique experience,their unique life story.
And that's why we can't just say, go,go to a dream journal or go to a,
you know, a dream dictionary and look upthe symbols and see what your dream means.
(35:24):
Plenty of people will come to go.
I Googled this dreamand I Googled this and I and
there might be, you know,some layers of truth and there are some
some collective symbolsthat we often all experience,
but it's very unique to a person's life.
There's going to be somethingabout the dream that specific
about their life storythat needs some real examination,
(35:47):
and that's what their mind wants to know.
Every dream is in serviceto the growth of the mind.
And your unconscious, as is
through your dreams, really trying
to get you to come back to your ownfeeling.
Yeah. To stay connected to yourself.
To stay connected to yourself,your story, understanding,
(36:10):
doing your work, cleaning upyour side of the street, you know,
so that we can see when these things onceyou start to get to know the terrain
of your unconscious,then you're more familiar with it.
So when you have certain dreams, youstart to go, okay, I know what's going on.
I know what happened in my lifethat made this show up.
And, you know, you can really startto get a clear picture
(36:33):
of what's happeningand you can attend to it as needed.
I see.
So you can say, all right,so I see these guys are coming back again.
Why are they showing up right now?
What's happening?
Yeah, you can make sense of it witheverything that's going on around you.
And if you know the dream is, like yousaid, it's trying to get your attention,
so it's going,hey, here's something I want you to know.
(36:56):
Here's a message that's important to us,and it usually has an emotional component
to it. So.
So let's see what that is,what needs attention.
Is there more to clear out?
You know, is there more to release?Let go of?
What does my mind want to knowso that I can grow and be more me?
And that's a lifelong process, right?
It's a lifelong. Process.
(37:17):
But but I guess that onceyou start to see some success,
have these feelings that, you knoware yours to have, you only want more?
Yeah, I think once you startreally getting connected.
So we talked about, okay, so there's anoverflow people can get so confused.
I'm overwhelmed all the time.
I keep having these negativeemotional experiences.
(37:38):
I'm not numb.
I feel a lot,but I'm having these painful experiences.
Once enough is cleared outthat we get a better sense of the story
and what's really going onand what's sitting underneath
all of those experiencesand who's really at play here.
Who do we really have?
And we've done a lot of workto start to clean that up.
(37:58):
The person usually becomes
less confused, less overwhelmed.
That's when you really startto get the feeling part of a person
working for the person because nowand people around them will feel
because you can usually feel when someonehas more space, has more emotional space,
there's a safety, there's a warmth,there's a natural compassion.
(38:22):
Yeah, we have to start with the self.
So it always starts with having moreunderstanding of the self.
But guess what's going to follow?
You have more understandingof everybody around you.
You start to go,I understand why they're doing this.
That makes sense to me.
Now I know more about how the mind works,so I see what's happening
and inevitably,hopefully we have more compassion, right?
(38:43):
Because we see what everyone is carryingand what everyone's going through.
And there's just so many reenactmentseverywhere.
But we started to see ita little more clearly,
and that is where we get the feelings sideguiding us.
I feel like that happened to me.
Look, I'm talking about myself todayin that perhaps I had an intellectual
(39:05):
understanding of what empathy wasand I knew what that should look like.
And I could speak to the people dear to me
and offer up some kind of empathy.
But then through this work and it wasit was really quite stunning.
I mean, it was really noticeable.
(39:26):
I had a couple of experienceswhere I where I was with people
that are my friends and they
shared experiencesthat were really troubling.
And I had goose bumpsand other times I couldn't help it.
I just began to cry.
And that didn't happen to me before.
Just telling you that gives me goose bumpsbecause it's it's
(39:47):
like this beautiful gift to be ableto feel that connected with other people.
That's right.
A beautiful gift.
I live so long. Really.
Without that.
Yeah.
And, I mean, I just want all of usto be able to have that gorgeous feeling.
Yeah.
What you're describing is trueemotional availability.
(40:10):
Those turns get used a lot.
Like peoplewant an emotionally available partner.
Yes. When they're dating. Right.
But I don't know how much we havea real understanding of what that means.
So what you're describing,when you can use your feelings
to connect to somebody else,that's an emotional availability.
I think a lot of us are sayingthat's what we want,
(40:31):
but we don't really know what that is.
That's right.
Well, it's what you describe like a lot ofpeople try to do it with their intellect
because they don't knowwhat's happened to their feelings side.
They don't know This is not well known.
Again, a lot of people thinkI feel I'm moved by things.
I went to the moviesand this made me cry and, you know, and
(40:53):
because I feel all this,I have my feelings.
But there's so much moreI understand some of this
might sound confusing to people,but what we want people to know
is there's so much more going onin the unconscious
and you're feeling selfhas gone through so much.
So that's where we want to really startto clean things up for people, right?
(41:16):
So that they can havethose cleaner interactions there.
We're all humans,so things happen and get messy,
but if there's a reenactment of somethingthat's happening,
you'll see it a little more clearly.
You'll know what's happening.
You can take better responsibilityfor your part in something.
You can see what's happening.
And take better care of yourself,take better care of.
(41:38):
Ourselves and others around you.
You'll take bettercare of the people in your life.
So really, in helping humanityin the best way to help
humanity, it'ssort of like one individual at a time,
killing us,
getting us to our feelings,undoing our trauma so that we can come
(41:58):
from a place of love and maybe makesomeone else curious about that.
We would hope so.
I mean, I think that was Dr.
Bails hope that's why this is called.And now love. Yes.
Because we need to clean up our collectiveunderstanding of what love is.
And to do that, we have to get very clear
(42:19):
and very realistic about what is not love,what is not love?
What if we had to turn into lovethat wasn't love?
And that's so much of what the process is.
And how to feel that it's okay
to stop pretending that that's lovefor the sake of the other
people around youthat want to pretend it's.
(42:42):
Love.
It asks a lot of peoplebecause a lot of times what people
to come to terms with is that they weren'treally loved even by the nicest parents.
That's what's confusing for people, right?
And I was so lovedand we have to get a better understanding.
Okay.
So tell me what your experience was.
(43:03):
What did your life feel like to you?
We have to clean up the partsthat weren't love.
It's not that there was no love.
Maybe there was some love.
And whenever there is genuine loveand understanding and all that good stuff,
that doesn't hurt a person.
Love doesn't imprintin the way that we're talking about.
Not that kind of imprint.
It only helps. It only heals.
(43:24):
So there's no work to be done there?
No, We want space more.
We want space for more.
So like you say, this is about how we growand evolve as as people.
Hopefully collectively, right?
This is how we become more lovingas humans for all of humanity.
(43:44):
Right?
And and it takes getting very real
about what's not love
and cleaning that up in our own mindsbecause we all carry it.
We all carry a lot of lives.
We've, we've all had to take inand really swallow
unconsciously so much so muchthat is not love.
(44:06):
So I think getting as as clearand honest about that
as possible is better for everybody.
It's better for everyoneis certainly better for the person.
It's just, you know,you're asking people to face a lot.
Yes. If you're like me,if you consider that
and you think, well,if I really feel that that was not love
(44:28):
and I've been pretendingto have that love,
and I say, okay, that wasn't love.
There's this big hole.
There's this big hole.
What goes there?I think that's super scary.
Super scary.
Kind of like the dream is just.
Exactly If we dismantle this,if we dismantle this
fake version of love, this luxury vehicle.
(44:49):
There is nothing. There. Then what?
Then the person gets killed.
That's actually a good thing.
We want the fake self.
The false self, the personthat's not really the person to die.
You know, the ID being,you know, more mom or being more dead.
All of that has to die for the personto really get to be themselves.
(45:11):
That's terrifying to have to do thisbecause it's like we say,
you actually might feel your dying
when we see it this way in a dreamand when we have feelings involved.
That's what Dr.
Bail was really so adamant about, becauseyou need the feeling part of the person
and we need the feminine unconsciousinvolved to to really facilitate change
(45:33):
because changealways has to touch the heart.
We can't think our way through it.
It doesn't work. We've tried.
Yeah, people have tried a very long timeto think
their way through these problemsand we can't do it now.
And it's becoming more and more clear.That's right.
It just doesn't work that way.
So I think so many of us still think
(45:56):
dreams are just nonsenseand we just close the door on them.
You wake up in the morningand you think, What the heck was that?
And you think, I just got to gobrush my teeth and get over it.
If we just could just open that door
and just say, okay,invite that in a little bit.
Yeah, just let me.
(46:16):
Just think about this.
Just start to think aboutand if we did that regularly,
we might startto get a sense of our true self.
Who we really are, Who we really are.Yeah.
You might be able to deal withsome of the things in our real world
that we could point to our dreamsas the source of the information.
(46:36):
Like you, you have this dream about thisbig scary bear
that and that scary bear representssome situation that you grew up with.
And then in the real world,you come across an event
that makes you feel that big, scary bearfeeling.
You can say.
This is the same feeling.
Is that what's happening in my worldthat's making me feel like this?
(46:59):
Is that sure you can draw connections,You also will get really in touch
with the more creative part of yourself.
I think a lot of problem solving.
I mean, we know for people, for artists,all of this
true creativity flowsfrom the unconscious.
So it doesn't mean that everyonehas to know this work specifically.
A lot of people are more attunedto that part of themselves
(47:21):
and they'll knowand some people will even say,
my God, I had a dream and an inspired,you know, whatever this work of art
or this this so many scientificdiscoveries have come from a dream.
It's something.
That is really.Something. Yeah, there's so many.
So we want people paying attentionbecause again, it's
not just to clear up your own stuff,which I think is very critical.
(47:42):
I mean, that'swhat we're doing in this work.
But also you'll be tapped in collectively.
You'll get all these wonderful,inspiring ideas.
You might even connect to Spiritif you're a spiritual person.
Dr. Bail is pretty adamant about that.
He really connects you to the source.
Yeah, that really connects you to Spirit.
Which I'd love to talk about morethoroughly At one point,
(48:02):
as well as the creative.
Because think about all the thingswe would have lost
if knowingly or unknowingly,that unconscious had not been tapped.
Yeah, well, this is pretty fascinating.
Again, thank you. This was really great.
I like that we sort of had a little narrowscope today.
(48:24):
Yeah, Hopefully, you know, ithelps clear up some things that we talked
about the first time that maybe neededto be elaborated on a little bit more.
I think so, too. Thank you very much.
It's my pleasure.
Thank you for listening.
And please knowthat your dreams are super precious.
Pay attention. See you next time.
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