July 18, 2023 • 45 mins
Here's a promise: this episode will change the way you think about marketing. Jason Hornung, the undisputed champion of Facebook ads, graced our show with his insights and unforgettable story. Having experienced a tough upbringing marked by drug-addicted parents and teenage pregnancy, Jason's journey embodies resilience. His struggle in establishing his insurance business led him to discover the power behind crafting words and how they can control his income. Jason's grasp of empathic marketing strategies has allowed him to solidify stronger relationships, grow his reach, and significantly increase his sales.
We track Jason's fascinating journey from a master marketer with a suspended securities license to an expert who knows how to evaluate a product that works, link it to a unique market emotion, and skillfully craft a selling narrative. He emphasizes that despite the ever-changing online marketing landscape, the message and offer still hold the key in achieving the best results. But it's not all about the success stories. We also delve into the reality of internet marketing expectations, and Jason sheds light on how human psychology is exploited to sell products based on unrealistic dreams of swift wins.
Jason further elaborates on the importance of understanding your customer's awareness and sophistication levels for successful advertising. He emphasizes the need for direct and honest advice, cutting through the noise of false hopes and empty promises. Through his no-nonsense approach and two decades of experience, Jason uses his unique voice to help people navigate the often-confusing landscape of online marketing. Prepare to be startled, surprised, and most importantly, enlightened. With Jason's expert knowledge shared generously through our conversation, this episode is undoubtedly a treasure trove of marketing wisdom. Don't miss out!
To connect with Jason personally, visit his websites: https://academyofadvertising.com/ or https://jasonhornungagency.com/
Don't miss the opportunity to claim your free copy of my international bestseller, 'Empathic Marketing.'
Or if you're serious about fast-tracking your journey to the business of your dreams, book a 30-minute Gap Analysis call. Don't forget to use the coupon code "Podcast" for a 50% discount. And yes, I'm offering a unique 200% guarantee on this Analysis.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome to the Because Business is Personal
podcast, the podcast whereempathy meets marketing strategy
.
I'm your host, mike Caldwell,but I'm also known as the
marketing medic.
Now, the reason for that isbecause, before becoming a
marketing strategist, I actuallyworked as a paramedic for 12
years, and it was during thattime that I realized how
(00:20):
important it was to trulyunderstand the problems your
patient was facing before youstarted providing treatment.
And it's this sameunderstanding, the same empathy,
is just as crucial when itcomes to understanding our
prospects and making sales, andthat's why, in each episode,
we'll dissect the art ofempathic marketing, exploring
(00:42):
how top professionals infuseempathy into their strategies to
build stronger relationships,boost their sales and make a
lasting impact.
So buckle up and prepare toturn up the dial on your
marketing effectiveness.
As we gear up to dive deeperinto the realm of empathic
marketing, I'd like to share acouple of special offers with
(01:03):
you.
First, you can get a free copyof my international bestselling
book Empathic Marketing.
You only need to cover the costof shipping.
Reading this will provide youwith a much more in-depth
understanding of theempathy-based marketing approach
that we explore in this show.
Next, I'm offering a 50%discount on a transformative
(01:23):
30-minute gap analysis sessionwith me.
Reading this session willidentify the hurdles in your
marketing efforts and togetherwill develop an actionable
roadmap aimed at winning youmore clients and making you more
sales.
Just visit my website,wwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
(01:44):
to grab your book or use couponcode podcast to take advantage
of my gap analysis offer.
So why wait?
Let's start turbocharging yourmarketing strategy today.
Now let's get started with ourepisode.
Hey everybody, I'm here todaywith Jason Hornan.
Jason is known as the king ofFacebook ads, the goat of
(02:07):
Facebook ads, but today he'sgoing to tell us his secret as
to why, even though he's reallygood at Facebook ads, it's not
for the reasons that we mostprobably think.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Welcome, Jason.
Hey, thanks for having me, MikeAppreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So let's just dive right.
Well, actually no, what I wantto do is because my whole thing
is about empathic marketing.
I like to get to know ourguests on a personal level first
.
And man, you've got like Iprobably shouldn't have sprung
this on you, but you've got oneheck of a backstory Like, what
sort of personal stuff would yoube comfortable sharing with us
(02:44):
about your life?
Just so we get to know Jason,the non-Facebook guy, better.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah Well, I mean like so I break this in my bio,
but I think my life really kindof reads like the warning label
from an after school specialRight, like these are all the
things that you shouldn't do ifyou want to have a good life.
So, like, I've been throughlike every kind of weird
(03:09):
experience that anybody canimagine.
Right, like my childhood wasterrible.
My parents were, like, you know, drug addict, alcoholic, very
rarely around, divorced when Iwas young.
So I spent most of my childhoodlike basically raising myself.
And then I got into a situationwhere I actually had a teenage
pregnancy myself, got my firstgirlfriend pregnant when I was
(03:33):
16.
And so I had my first kid whenI was 17.
So I've been a father sincebefore.
I was even an adult.
And then, you know, like raisinga kid, I went off to college,
ended up dropping out after twoyears to be able to raise my kid
and let my girlfriend who endedup being my wife, you know go
(03:58):
to school, so she finished andthen we got married, had a
couple more kids.
You know, struggled, struggled,struggled, as I was building an
insurance business and I wasbuilding this thing off of what
they taught me to do withmarketing, which was to cold
call people and knock on doors,and so for two years I built
(04:23):
this business, making my 300cold calls a day, and I would
walk, I would walk it.
I would cold walk into 15businesses a week and just asked
to see the business owner andthen try chatting them up and
see if they'd quote me theirinsurance, and I had done pretty
well according to like theaccolades that they give you.
(04:45):
You know, like I would, I wonall the life insurance awards
and the property and casualtyawards and the commercial
insurance lines awards, but Iwas like I was making like four
grand a month and I had threeyoung kids at home and a wife
and I had to work, like you know, 70 plus hours a week in order
(05:07):
to do this.
You know I'm like working 10 to15 hour days, you know, six
days a week, and so my personallife was just terrible, like
awful.
It was just awful, and so youknow I couldn't do it anymore.
I was burned the fuck out aftertwo years of that, and so it's
like what led me into Googlesearching.
(05:28):
I'd realized there's gotta be abetter way in the way.
That has to be better is I needto get people coming to me.
So the way I thought about thatmy mind was just attraction
marketing was the term that cameup.
I was googling attractionmarketing and that landed me on
this page for a book by DanKennedy called the ultimate
(05:50):
sales ladder.
And so I bought that book and Iread it and you know, dan
convinced me that writing wordswas gonna be the key to me
controlling my income.
Because I didn't have a collegedegree.
You know I and there's a wholenother story on how I ended up
getting into this insuranceagency like that.
(06:10):
I could go on for another houron a loan.
But you know, without thiscollege degree, I happened to,
you know, be in sales and I gotrecruited into insurance and I
shouldn't even have had the jobright Like they.
They pulled a whole bunch ofstrings to get it for me, right.
And so you know I'm a.
I just get convinced that youknow writing words is going to
(06:35):
be the key to me controlling myincome.
So I go down this whole path of, you know, following Dan's
advice on writing sales laddersto try to get leads coming in so
I don't have to be cold callingpeople no more Right, and you
know I go through the wholeprocess.
Send out this letter.
I spent.
I spent a ton of money.
It took spent me.
You know, for me at a time itwas over a grand to, like you
(06:56):
know, mail out this first piece.
You got to get all thesedifferent you know print the
letters.
You got paper postage.
You got to envelope thesethings by mailing lists.
It's crazy, right.
And then the thing didn't workat all.
But I'm pretty hard headed andso, you know, I just was like
I'm just going to keep going andI figured it was something that
(07:16):
I did wrong.
I didn't think it was theletter that didn't work.
It was like I must have donesomething wrong.
I need to do better, right.
So I just I did it.
I did it again.
No results.
And again and again and again,until the sticks try.
I sent out a letter, like whatI would do every time I'd send
out the letters.
I'd sit by the phone for liketwo or three days waiting for
(07:38):
that thing to see if it wasthere, right, and then usually
it was like disappointment.
Disappointment like the twoworst days of my life.
Go home and drink, you know,and this one phone starts
ringing.
Phone rings off the hook.
Everybody that's calling islike homeowners too, like, and I
(08:01):
was like typically working withrenters and low level prospects
from these mailing lists outcold calling lists I was working
on and so these but thesepeople are calling me.
They're like yeah, jason, I gotthis big house over here in
this neighborhood and I gotthree, four cars and I need an
umbrella policy and I want toget some life insurance.
They didn't even say that right, like with the other people I'd
be like I'd have to likesqueeze their arm to even talk
(08:23):
about it, you know.
So you know it was crazy.
And then they just wanted togive me everything Right, and so
it was.
It was like mind blown, and sothat was what I just kind of
expanded upon that and I grew myinsurance business writing
letters and this was like 2005.
All right, and so I did that forlike a year and I got on Dan
(08:46):
Kennedy's newsletter and in hisnewsletter he started featuring
this dude named Corey Rudle, andyou may not have heard his name
anybody that knows anythingabout internet marketing.
Corey Rudolph founded it.
He basically invented internetmarketing, and so Dan was
(09:08):
featuring him talking about howyou can advertise on the
internet, and I'm like Cory'stalking about how you can get
like these penny clicks andstuff like that and it's way
better and centered out directmail to so much cheaper and you
can target and all this shit.
And so then I was like I gotfigured this out and the only
(09:32):
thing that I could think of waswell, I mean, maybe I can make
the in these sales letters I'mwriting, I can make a web page,
because that was how Corey inthe newsletter was talking about
doing it.
Right, so I had to teach myselfbasic HTML.
I was like the next stepbecause they did.
There was no thing like clickfunnels or any of that shit.
It wasn't even word prep at thetime, right, so I had to teach
(09:53):
myself basic HTML and then Iwould write my sales letters on
web pages.
And then I went in and went toGoogle ads.
It was actually called overtureat the time, so that's how old
this was.
Yeah, this was before they evenbecame Google ads, and I would
run ads to these Sales letters,just like I would, and I would
(10:14):
target people in the local area.
Then they just bang, bang, bang, bang bang way cheaper leads
are just flooding in blew up myinsurance business fast forward.
A few years.
I had actually moved fromMinnesota, where I was at, and I
had taken over anotherinsurance agency and I'm doing
all the things I'm doing.
(10:34):
They find out about it.
They didn't like it and so theylabeled me as like a maverick.
You know, like I'm, like I'mdoing things outside of what
they of the norm.
You know what I mean, becausethey you know I wasn't doing all
this the marketing stuff theytaught you right and so they
didn't like that and theystarted like coming down on me
(10:56):
that they like filed a complaintwith the National Association
of Securities Advisors on me,which is this they suspended my
securities license, it, which Iand they found I didn't do
anything wrong, by the way, butbecause all this stuff, that
company soured me and I was like, well, screw this, I'm gonna go
market online full-time and Ilike walked away from my
insurance business and that wasbasically how I got into this
(11:20):
place where I was marketingonline full-time, started taking
on clients.
Fast forward to 2013.
Facebook ads comes on the scene, I started applying what I'm
knowing have been doing toFacebook ads.
That blows up.
I built this force around whatI'm doing.
That blows up, and that's how Igot to be known as the Facebook
(11:40):
guy and the Facebook gang oryou know, like whatever people
like to say, I don't call myselfany of those things unless I'm
joking about it.
You know what I mean.
That's how I got known aboutthat.
But really, if you kind of goall the way back to all that and
this is what I've been tellingyou know, trying to really
change my perception in themarketplace now is because what,
what?
I'm not a I'm not a Facebookads guy.
(12:03):
What I really am is a Personwho understands people and I
understand how to evaluate aproduct that actually works
right.
I want to make sure I qualifythat because people will come to
me with brand new things right.
I only I can make things doreally well for products that
(12:26):
are already proven right andthey already work and and I can
find the unique thing in thereand I can connect that unique
thing to the unique motion ofmotion that is inside the market
right now and Channel thatemotion onto that unique thing
(12:46):
inside of the product or serviceas the fulfillment of this
emotional desire that peoplehave, right, and I have a better
understanding of that and I cando it faster and easier than I
think anybody on the planet.
I can ask a few questions, lookat a couple of things and, with
(13:07):
in 30 minutes, I can have acomplete selling narrative with
a big hook or a big idea, amarketing hook that does all
these things I just talked aboutand can, in some cases, you
know, more than 10x sales byjust, you know, changing some of
this messaging that we do onthe front end into an existing
(13:28):
process Right, sometimes by evenchanging just a headline,
landing page, we're able to, youknow, achieve these kinds of
results With, with people's adsand their marketing funnels, and
it and, like I said, it, hasnothing to do With Facebook ads,
the medium doesn't matter,facebook ads that just happen to
(13:50):
be that.
It was the right time, rightplace for that medium, with the
skill set that I have, right,and that was the media that that
, you know, I used at that timeand continue to use as a way to
achieve these kinds of resultsfor people.
Now the ability achieve thoseresults over the years has
(14:12):
become harder and harder andharder for people since 2013 I
mean, that was 10 years agoalready.
Now you know Facebook haschanged a lot in that time, but,
at the end of the day, thething that still matters is the
message and the offer Right, andthose are the two things that
(14:34):
I've always studied and that I'ma master of, and that's how I'm
able to still, to this day, getpeople the best results that
they've ever seen with Facebookads.
But I don't do it just onFacebook ads either.
We do Google, youtube, tiktokanywhere that you can buy ads.
What I do and what I teachpeople applies to any of those
(14:59):
platforms, and I have that kindof training available inside my
membership site Cool.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So I want to get into your methodology a little bit,
but before we do that, nowadayseverybody wants a quick win,
right?
Because you can funnel, hack afunnel in 10 minutes.
You're just one funnel away.
It's so easy to make moneyonline, right?
Just anybody can do it, as longas you know a little bit more
than somebody else.
Than you can just rake in thedough, just rake in the dough.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Oh well, that's what.
That's what the people stopshoveling the shit tell you,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, and so From your, from where you came from,
like you, like you say, you gotknocked down a whole bunch of
times.
You're, you're.
You had to send out fiveletters before a five at a grand
a pop before one of them worked.
So you said you had a hard head.
Now is that lost in today'sBusinesses, or?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
oh my, oh my god, are you kidding me?
The expect, hey, no, this is oneof the biggest problems I have
with the internet marketingindustry and it has to do with
the people, that most of thepeople coming into this space or
in this space, the people theyidolize, right, a lot of them
Create these Expectations thatare completely wrong with their
(16:18):
marketing, because theyhighlight the unicorn scenarios
right, like these fast wins, the, the big, huge results and they
make in some cases, they can befrom people that just come on
the scene Do.
That is because these people aremasters of psychology like me,
and they understand that thething that sells is Is that big,
(16:42):
fast, quick win, because humanbeings are dumb, fucking lazy
people, and, and, and, and.
What they're doing is isthey're purposefully using
messaging and they have proof toback it up because these
unicorns happen, right, but whatthey do is they use this and
extrapolate it out, to usemessaging to Implicate to
everyone that that's possible tothem, because they're also
(17:05):
using the concept of hope, whichis another highly powerful
human emotion, to get you to buytheir shit Right, and, and then
the vast majority eat thatfucking shit up.
I idolize these people whilenot getting the fucking result
that they're promising anywhereremotely closed, but they still
(17:27):
eat it up.
And then they keep buying moreshit from them because these
guys keep shoveling the fuckingdream that they want to hear,
right yeah, I call those guysHopium dealers.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
They're Hopium dealers.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Right, they get you hooked, and then yeah, then
you're.
Once you're hooked, then theygot you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
You know that whole one funnel away thing, right
Like?
I've written many, many postsabout this particular
phraseology in particular,because, like you were talking
about before we startedrecording the funnel doesn't
fucking matter, it doesn't,right, like you could use
umpteen bajillion funnels, butif you got a shitty offer and
(18:08):
bad messaging or one or theother, that funnel ain't gonna
work.
And that's why all these peoplecome by the time they get to me
, because I preach a messagethat people don't want to
fucking hear.
Most people don't, right.
They don't want to hear this ishard.
They don't want to hear thatyou got to make something unique
.
They want to hear that you canjust copy and paste and fuck off
(18:30):
your way into success.
Right, but that's not how itreally works.
And so you know, only thepeople that understand reality
will resonate with me right away, or after they've been kicked
in the nuts a million times bybuying the dream and spent half
their life savings on it, willthey finally buy into my
messaging.
And then they're reluctant todo what I want to do and they
(18:51):
don't even want to pay me thewages that I asked for, which is
quite a bit less than what mostof these clowns are doing with
the dream, selling them thedream.
They don't even want to paythat anymore because they're
fucking out of money by thattime.
Right it's.
It's the weirdest thing, dude.
I hate it, but that yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I just brought it.
I brought in a client a coupleof weeks ago and I was a little
bit nervous because I knew whatshe needed.
I knew I could serve her and Ido.
I do done for you services.
But when I got on the call withher, she told me she had just
bought a $10,000 certificationprogram where she was going to
learn how to do all this.
She's got a full time job, likeand you know how hard it is to
(19:32):
learn to be a marketing expertlike $10,000 doesn't matter what
you spend, it's not going tohappen unless you put in the
hours.
And I was like, oh man, shejust spent all of that money,
like can she afford me now andagain, I don't charge as much as
these other guys.
But she just dropped all thatand I'm like that's, it's gone,
like you're never, she's nevergoing to get the value out of
that.
And so she ended up hiring meand now we're three weeks in and
(19:54):
we're almost ready to launch.
But had she just spent donewith her own stuff, oh my God,
she'd be years away.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, and I see that kind of dumb behavior all the
time.
These people will buy thesehigh ticket things because they
they get easily influenced bymaster marketers and sellers.
Right, they'll buy these thingsknowing full well that they
can't fully implement it.
Sometimes they're even in themindset of you know, if I write
(20:21):
this check, it just means thatand I buy this thing, it just
means I'm entitled to a returnof some other form of money,
even if I don't do it all.
And then they'll do these kindsof things where they'll buy
coaching programs like that andthey'll have people that they'll
have multiple coaching programswhere they're listening to,
trying to get advice frommultiple people on different
things at the same time andthey're working with the
professional at the same timeand they're trying to make you
(20:44):
do this, that or the other, andthen they're questioning you
about these things that they'redoing.
It's crazy, bro.
Yeah, people, people, Iunderstand them, and the more I
understand them, the more I justcan't fucking get it Right.
So here's the thing like youknow, you can understand people
(21:06):
and you can.
You can play with it to youradvantage, or you can play with
it to their advantage, right,and then you can advantage off
of other people's advantage.
That's the game that I play.
It's it's not as a profitableof a game, it's not, but at the
end of the day, I can live mylife in 100%, in integrity,
(21:30):
right, and I see a lot, I know.
I know everybody in thisindustry.
I know what happens behinddoors, I know what's in the
secret rooms.
I part of that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I was working with a.
I was working with a coachingclient for a couple of years and
he was doing great.
I helped him make over three,three million dollars in two
years.
But then he decided to retireand that's cool.
But anyway, he was retired fortwo months, decided to come back
to work.
He asked if I wanted to return.
I was like, yeah, no, I don't,I don't, I don't think.
So I was doing my own thing bythe.
(22:05):
So he hired somebody else and Italked to him.
He's like oh yeah, I got thisnew guy and he's going to really
help me because he knows somesort of like loan, because he
had a $24,000 program.
He knows, like this loan sharkguy.
So the people who come into myprogram, if they can't afford it
, they can get financed by thisguy.
And this guy's had someunicorns like some rock stars
(22:26):
that have made a lot of money.
But we know the reality inthese coaching programs the
majority of people fail throughno fault of my client, through
no fault of the coach.
Right, and for my level ofintegrity, I'm like so you're
going to get your students tosign up with this loan shark,
knowing full well that 80 to 90percent of your.
Your people aren't going toever be able to pay that loan.
(22:47):
Yeah, because I go.
I was like how can you do thatto some?
He's just he's going to destroy.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, because they don't care.
They, like a lot of people,don't?
They don't care or they don'tthink about that, right, the
only thing that matters is I gotto get my money.
Yeah yeah, I'd rather, I'drather get, I'd rather earn
every dollar and feel like goodabout that.
I'm actually like helpingpeople in that exchange than
(23:13):
taking Right.
I just I'm not a taker, I'm agiver.
You know, I can't, I can't dothat.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So let's do a ten thousand dollar mastermind in
the next 15 minutes.
Ok, so what?
So when you're starting a newcampaign, what's the first thing
you do to?
To learn about your audience.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Well place right now where I can get everything I
need with a few questions from acustomer, because I've I've
worked in pretty much everyniche market imaginable and most
of the people that come to meare going to fall into the
usually into the major niches.
Right, there's health wealthand finance, or health wealth
(23:57):
and fitness.
What health wealth?
Why am I getting that wrong?
I know.
Anyways, there's three majormarkets.
Right, I'm trying to.
Yeah, I'm missing the.
I'm missing the relationshipHealth wealth and relationships.
Those are the three.
Yeah, so I mean, I know thegeneral avatars on both sides of
(24:17):
those coins, right, and I knowlike a lot of how to market to
them already in general.
Right, so, what, what I do whenI bring out a client is we have
an initial kickoff call andI'll just grill them about the
people that are buying from themalready.
Right, because, like I saidbefore, I'm only working with
(24:39):
people that have proven offers.
Right, this is a lot harderwhen you're making something new
, right, you can't do thesekinds of things, right?
And so the people I'm talkingto, they have buyers all the
time and they're getting there.
They're possibly having phoneconversations with them, you
know, they're getting emailsinto their customer support.
(25:00):
They're having comments ontheir ads and stuff like that
and blog posts and things likethat.
So we have a lot of data pointsthat we can reference, and the
first question I always ask iswhat are, what are the people
that are buying from you?
How are they describing theproblems that they want you to
solve?
Okay, because that's that whenI, when I say it that way, how
(25:26):
are they describing it?
What are?
When they come to you and theysay, hey, mike, I need your help
, this is what I need your helpwith.
How are they saying that?
Because that allows us to.
From the you know, there's thisconcept called entering the
conversation in the prospect'smind.
That comes out of the RobertCollier Letterbook, which was
(25:48):
written in the late 1800s, butit's a very common copywriting
axiom, and the reason thatthat's important is because we
want to be using the language inour advertising and our
marketing to lead into ourselling process with the
(26:13):
language that people are usingtop of conscious, because that's
how they can identify that weunderstand their issue.
All right, and so that'sabsolutely crucial to success in
advertising is being able tocreate that identification that
(26:36):
you understand their problem and, ideally, you want to be able
to understand, show that youunderstand it better than they
do, and you do that by beingreally clear on what their
problem is, because some peoplearen't.
You know this all variesdepending on the market and the
product and everything like that, and this is why you had
mentioned I in the when you cameout here.
(26:58):
I talk about awareness, becausethat level of awareness is of
where they're at with even withtheir own problem, right, like
people might just be aware thatthey've got an issue, but
they're not even really sure ofwhat's causing that issue, for
example.
But other times there's peoplethat are really crystal clear on
what's causing that issue,right?
(27:19):
So if you got, if you'remarketing a product to people
that aren't really clear on whatthe issue is, you got to make
them clear on what that issue isfirst, right, before you tell
them about the solution, becausethey're not ready to accept
that there is a solution untilthey know what their problem
clearly is.
Right Now, other markets arealready aware clearly of what
(27:39):
their problem is, and so all yougot to do is tell them about
your solution.
So what you do in your copy andyour advertising is entirely
informed by a deep understandingof your ideal customer and
particularly an awareness ofunderstanding what their level
of awareness is for their ownproblem, for the problem that
(28:02):
you solve, for the fact thatthere is a solution out there
right, and for the fact thatyour solution is the best.
Okay, that's the sequence ofthought we have to take people
through and we start with thatconversation in their mind
around how they're experiencingwhatever problem it is that your
(28:24):
product or service solve.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yes, that's the way I identify that.
Now there's two levels ofunderstanding.
There's first the experientialunderstanding, and that's what
you just talked about level ofawareness and level
sophistication.
That's their experience, wherethey've been awareness of their
problem.
And then what have they heard?
What is your competition saying?
Like in the weight loss space,we've got a highly sophisticated
audience right.
Like they've heard everythingunder this time.
(28:49):
Like so hard to come up withsomething new.
I just I started working with aclient a couple of months ago
and he's a lawyer who suesfinancial advisors.
That's all he does.
So I was like, oh my gosh, likeI haven't seen this one ad for,
hey, if you lost money withyour financial advisor, we can
get it back.
Like it's that simple.
I don't need a unique mechanism, I don't need a big idea,
(29:12):
because there's no, there's nocrowd in that marketplace.
But again, if I was doing aweight loss thing, oh my gosh,
then you got to have a levelcopy writing skills Mm, hmm, mm
hmm.
Yep, that's exactly right.
And with the speaking theaudience's language, I just got
a three X increase onconversions Cause and I knew my
(29:32):
copy was good.
I like talking to a generatingrevenue, like let me help you
generate revenue right, and itwasn't converting.
And then I said let me help youmake more sales.
And guess what?
Right, like it means the samething.
But how many people have evercome to you and said, hey Jason,
you know I need to generatemore revenue?
Like, they don't say that.
Hey Jason, I need to make moresales and I need to make them
(29:53):
today.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, so that's a really good point there, mike.
So this is this illustrates whatI'm talking about and why I
asked that question in thebeginning of you know, when I'm
working with customers, of whatare people, how are people
describing the solution thatthey're looking for, and stuff
like that.
Right, because when we, when we,as a business owner or media
(30:15):
buyer or advertiser, when westart writing, we have a track
in our own mind of what we wantto say, right, and that will
color the words that we use, andusually there's like an
educational piece that's comingto.
You know, it's influencing thatthought process on how we're
(30:37):
coming up with the words thatwe're gonna say.
And so we'll say things likegenerating revenue, where it
sounds amazing in our own head,right, like, oh my God, this is
totally while people arethinking about this, but no,
it's actually only how you'rethinking about it in that moment
, and that's a really commonexample.
And so, by switching it to theway that they are, actually
(30:58):
because I've talked to tens ofthousands of business owners now
over the years you know everysingle one of them when they're
talking about what they want,they want leads and what sales,
the exact words that come out oftheir mouth always right.
They never say I need revenue.
No one ever says that right,yeah, so you know.
And that's why, when you switchto the word, I've got a
master's degree.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I've got a master's degree, Jason.
Like I should speak at thelevel that I'm educated, yeah
but that's another big mistake.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
In writing.
Yeah, and that's why, if you so, I teach people about using
this thing called the Hemingwayapp, where it measures what's
called the flesh kingcadereadability score, which has a
grade level that it assigns toit.
One of the secrets of orationis that the average human being
(31:47):
reads and listens at a fifthgrade level, no matter what
their education is Okay, and ifyou take any state of the union
address from any president andyou plug it into this thing,
it'll come out at fifth gradelevel or lower every time.
Oh yeah, yeah, cause all speechwriters know this stuff and
(32:09):
they actually use this, becausewhen you're talking, when you're
talking to people, you need totalk clearly.
The only way to talk clearly isto talk at lower grade levels.
That doesn't mean you'redumbing things down.
It just means you're not usingextraneous language, if you like
.
How I use an example of thatright there.
You're not using extraneouslanguage that can confuse people
(32:34):
or bore people.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Exactly, yeah, no, I use the Hemingway app all the
time cause, like say I smartmyself way too often and I think
what's gonna happen now likejust the world is getting so
much easier and like, say, onefunnel away and you know 15
minute hacks, and now we've gotAI and chat GPT, like chat can
(32:58):
just write me a script now and Ican just copy and paste, but
chat's not understanding theaudience, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
No, I mean it doesn't understand audience.
So here's the thing about anysoftware and AI in particular,
or I mean so many things,including your body, like,
there's this phrase.
It's called garbage in, garbageout.
So the copy that you get out ofchat GPT is only gonna be as
(33:27):
good as the prompting that youput into the thing.
So in the vast majority ofbusiness owners that I talked to
, they don't know dick reallyabout their audience.
That's why I gotta ask them allthese pointed questions to get
out the truth.
If I ask them, oh, tell meabout your avatar, if they know
anything about it, they're gonnaspit off a bunch of big level
(33:51):
generalized demographics, right.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, age salary political.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
And usually they're off base with that stuff.
Once we dive into who's reallybuying, cause like we can
validate these things.
You know what I mean?
It's funny, like cause, like alot I'll get.
I'll work with a lot of bigorganizations where they got
multiple departments and I'llask the owner about their avatar
and then they'll give me thatkind of thing and then I'll ask
(34:18):
the guy that's doing the saleshey, dude, tell me about who's
buying.
And it's like this guy.
The owner told me that peoplethat are buying are dudes and
the sales guys like now, all thechicks are buying.
So, like the, how much thebusiness owner really actually
knows their customer is usuallynot a whole lot, and it's if
(34:43):
they know it at all, which iswhich is shocking, right?
So when people start saying,yeah, I'll just use chat GPT to
figure it out, no, you won't,because you don't even know who
you're going after begin with.
That's why your shit ain'tworking right.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
All right.
So if you were to give onepiece of advice for a business
owner to really move the needlefor sales, for revenue, what
would you, what piece of advicewould you give?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, actually spend the time to really get to
understand your customer on adeep level, you know, on the
emotional level, because thethings that they're going to
tell you on the surface that'snot there.
Are most old things, right,like they're always going to say
it leads to sale.
Any more leads to sale rightNow.
If anybody's been in selling,they've probably heard of the
(35:34):
concept of probing down.
Right, and this is probing downis how you get to the emotional
core, and you really need tokeep doing this over and over
again in your market to get tothat emotional core, right.
So when people say I want leadsin sales, yeah, well, why is
that important to you?
Why are leads in salesimportant to you?
And they'll say because I wantmore money.
Well, why do you want moremoney?
(35:54):
Well, more money is going togive me more time.
Well, why do you need more time?
Well, you know I'm coming up onthis age, I've been working
really hard, I'm actuallygetting tired and burnt out and
I want to spend more time withmy family.
Why you want to spend more timewith your family?
Why is that important to you?
Well, because you know when Iwas a kid, my dad wasn't home
(36:19):
very much and that made me feelthis way.
Bam, emotional core, right,yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so you know you're going tofind, when you do this kind of
probing, that there are.
There's the general motivatingemotions, right?
So, like when I went from thelevel of leads and sales down
(36:39):
below, that it was money, right.
And I said, well, why do youwant more money?
It's because I want freedom,right.
And the reason I said that isbecause every business owner
I've ever talked to, when I walkthrough that chain of questions
, those are the exact sameanswers that they will give me.
They say I want leads and salesbecause I want money.
They say leads and salesbecause, if they say I want
money, that's not sociallyacceptable.
(37:01):
It makes them seem like they'regreedy.
So they use leads and sales toconceptualize money.
And then you ask them well, whydo you want that?
Then they have to reveal thatit's because they want money,
unless they're going to lie toyou, right?
Which, again, is not sociallyacceptable.
So I'm diving into thepsychology behind this stuff,
right?
You got to understand thesethings if you want to be good at
(37:22):
this shit, right?
So the reason that then they'llsay money, right.
And then the only reason thatpeople want money is because
they know that money is thevehicle that gives them freedom.
That's the only way that we canhave true freedom in this life.
To say, fuck you, I'm going todo whatever I want is I've got
enough money in the bank to dothat.
Everybody knows that Right, andat the end of the day, anybody
(37:50):
that's ever bought a got into abusiness.
They got into a businessbecause they wanted freedom, and
most of them end up justbuilding themselves a J-O-B that
has extreme amounts of stress,anxiety and responsibility tied
to it that you don't have withthe J-O-B.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Right, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Let me just check my list ofquestions, but I think we I
didn't nailed it all.
I wish this was like a livecall, because I'm sure people
would have like yeah, did we?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
did we meet in die, in Meander or around the map?
Enough there to bring it fullcircle.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, exactly, we started there and we ended there
.
There we go.
Okay, I think all that's leftis you've clearly provided value
.
Clearly provide can help people, help businesses.
If our listeners wanted toreach out to you, what's?
What's the best way to?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, so I got this website that's
academyofadvertisingcom, and so,you know, people, can, you know
, contact me through there.
They can learn about all thedifferent ways that we can help
people and then, if they'reinterested in, you know,
experiencing some of thetrainings and stuff that I have,
there's an option for people toget a free course on there.
(39:10):
So they can, you know, registerfor that and they can, you know
, apply it to their campaigns,get results and makes them extra
money and then use some of thatto hire, you know, work with
them on a deeper level.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Cool.
I came into your world a fewyears ago and the first thing I
found from you is that you tendto over deliver.
I was like holy smokes, like Ican't believe I paid this little
and got that much.
That was the first thing I gotfrom you and the second thing I
got was, like man, this guy'sharsh.
(39:44):
But the thing is, is I likeharsh?
I remember once I hired some Iwas going to put I live off the
grid and I was going to get awind turbine put up at my house,
and so I hired this wind expertto come and give me the stats
for whether we should have windhere or not.
Anyway, we put the wind towerup and we get really good wind
from the west, which is whereyou should come from.
(40:07):
But we've got a hill in thenortheast.
Wind doesn't usually come fromthere, but that hill in the
northeast causes like a eddiesto form.
So even when we have a goodwest wind, we didn't have a
clean wind, anyway, to shortenthe story.
So after, when it wasn't working, he's like oh, yeah, yeah, no,
I, yeah, I expected that tohappen.
I'm like well, why didn't youtell me that?
(40:27):
He's like you just hired me totell you.
Tell me what you wanted to hearwhat.
No, I hired you to know whetherI should put the wind turbine
up.
He thought I wanted a windturbine.
I wanted him to validate it,but he should have told me the
truth and I would have savedlike $12,000.
And so that's what I like about.
That's what I like about you isthat, like I show you my, my
(40:50):
funnel page and it sucks.
You're not going to pat me onthe back.
Oh, good, try.
You just said well, it's notgoing to work.
And these are the three reasonswhy I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I don't apologize for anything.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, no like you know, this is, this is what
you're doing wrong.
From my 20 years experience, Iknow what's going to work.
You can either do it or not,but that's it Right and that's
uh.
There's not enough of that outthere.
Like, say, you're not a hope?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Well, I mean like and that comes out of my you know
my childhood.
You know my parents were aroundmuch, you know, and if I needed
anything I needed to go make itfor myself.
You know I didn't need to makeit happen.
So I've never had I didn't.
Participation.
Trophies don't mean shit to me.
Uh, only thing that matters tome is winning, and I think that
there's people are far too softthese days.
(41:37):
You know what I mean.
Like all they, all they want todo is have their feelings
coddled and, at the end of theday, money could give a shit
about your feelings.
You know what I mean.
Like nobody, no, I don't careabout anybody's feelings.
Like I care about your resultsand so, like, if what you show
me is going to, in my opinion,is going to get you the results
(42:00):
that you're expecting, I'm goingto be like hell, yeah, this is
awesome, Right.
Like you don't see that a wholelot in my group, because
there's not many people thatactually put good stuff together
right away and I'll tell themlike, look, this is, this is
what's wrong, and I'll be bluntabout it.
I'm not going to be.
I don't become harshly criticalfor no reason, right, but I,
(42:22):
what, what, what, what I thinkyou're getting at there and I've
kind of been explaining this alot lately is, you know, because
I'm I?
I I like Tony Robbins a lot,Right, and you've heard me curse
a few times on here, and thisis really where the harshness
comes from is because I'll I'lluse cursing, like Tony Robbins
does, in order to pattern,interrupt people, to jolt them
(42:45):
out of the things that they'vebeen doing that are keeping them
from success.
Right, and a lot of times thissee, a lot of people will send
things, not because they intendon actually doing anything with
it, but they're seeking approval.
You know what I mean.
And and so you know, like yougot to do things like this to
(43:06):
get people out of these badpatterns that are keeping them
from getting the result thatthey want.
Now some people respond to itand then they get results.
Others, like they're like oh,you can't handle it.
Then they go off to somebodythat's gonna, you know, rub baby
oil on their butt and tell themwhat they want to hear.
There's all kinds of massageparlors in town you can get that
(43:36):
from.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
All right.
Well, thanks for thanks forcoming on my show, jason.
You're like the first, firstformal guest I've had, so this
is.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
I appreciate it, Mike .
So I hope everyone got value.
And again, if you want to, youknow, learn more and you're down
with a, with an insane clownlike me, you can go to Academy
of Advertisingcom.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, I'll put a link in the bio, for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
All right, appreciate it, mike.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Jason.
See you next time.
And that is a wrap for thisepisode of Because Business is
Personal.
Thanks for joining us and don'tforget to take advantage of my
two special offers.
First, you can get a free copyof my bestselling book, empathic
Marketing.
You just pay for the shipping.
Or you get a 50% discount on myGap Analysis session with the
(44:30):
coupon code.
Podcast Just head over towwwBecauseBusinessIsPersonalcom
or check the show notes fordetails.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please don't forget to
follow, subscribe, leave areview and share the podcast
with others who might benefit.
Your support means the world tous, so stay tuned for our next
(44:53):
episode, where we'll continue todelve into the intersection of
empathy and marketing strategy.
Remember, because Business isIndeed Personal, every
Connection Counts Until nexttime.
See you then.
Hey, welcome to the Because Business is Personal
podcast, the podcast whereempathy meets marketing strategy
.
I'm your host, mike Caldwell,but I'm also known as the
marketing medic.
Now, the reason for that isbecause, before becoming a
marketing strategist, I actuallyworked as a paramedic for 12
years, and it was during thattime that I realized how
(00:20):
important it was to trulyunderstand the problems your
patient was facing before youstarted providing treatment.
And it's this sameunderstanding, the same empathy,
is just as crucial when itcomes to understanding our
prospects and making sales, andthat's why, in each episode,
we'll dissect the art ofempathic marketing, exploring
(00:42):
how top professionals infuseempathy into their strategies to
build stronger relationships,boost their sales and make a
lasting impact.
So buckle up and prepare toturn up the dial on your
marketing effectiveness.
As we gear up to dive deeperinto the realm of empathic
marketing, I'd like to share acouple of special offers with
(01:03):
you.
First, you can get a free copyof my international bestselling
book Empathic Marketing.
You only need to cover the costof shipping.
Reading this will provide youwith a much more in-depth
understanding of theempathy-based marketing approach
that we explore in this show.
Next, I'm offering a 50%discount on a transformative
(01:23):
30-minute gap analysis sessionwith me.
Reading this session willidentify the hurdles in your
marketing efforts and togetherwill develop an actionable
roadmap aimed at winning youmore clients and making you more
sales.
Just visit my website,wwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
(01:44):
to grab your book or use couponcode podcast to take advantage
of my gap analysis offer.
So why wait?
Let's start turbocharging yourmarketing strategy today.
Now let's get started with ourepisode.
Hey everybody, I'm here todaywith Jason Hornan.
Jason is known as the king ofFacebook ads, the goat of
(02:07):
Facebook ads, but today he'sgoing to tell us his secret as
to why, even though he's reallygood at Facebook ads, it's not
for the reasons that we mostprobably think.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Welcome, Jason.
Hey, thanks for having me, MikeAppreciate it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So let's just dive right.
Well, actually no, what I wantto do is because my whole thing
is about empathic marketing.
I like to get to know ourguests on a personal level first
.
And man, you've got like Iprobably shouldn't have sprung
this on you, but you've got oneheck of a backstory Like, what
sort of personal stuff would yoube comfortable sharing with us
(02:44):
about your life?
Just so we get to know Jason,the non-Facebook guy, better.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Yeah Well, I mean like so I break this in my bio,
but I think my life really kindof reads like the warning label
from an after school specialRight, like these are all the
things that you shouldn't do ifyou want to have a good life.
So, like, I've been throughlike every kind of weird
(03:09):
experience that anybody canimagine.
Right, like my childhood wasterrible.
My parents were, like, you know, drug addict, alcoholic, very
rarely around, divorced when Iwas young.
So I spent most of my childhoodlike basically raising myself.
And then I got into a situationwhere I actually had a teenage
pregnancy myself, got my firstgirlfriend pregnant when I was
(03:33):
16.
And so I had my first kid whenI was 17.
So I've been a father sincebefore.
I was even an adult.
And then, you know, like raisinga kid, I went off to college,
ended up dropping out after twoyears to be able to raise my kid
and let my girlfriend who endedup being my wife, you know go
(03:58):
to school, so she finished andthen we got married, had a
couple more kids.
You know, struggled, struggled,struggled, as I was building an
insurance business and I wasbuilding this thing off of what
they taught me to do withmarketing, which was to cold
call people and knock on doors,and so for two years I built
(04:23):
this business, making my 300cold calls a day, and I would
walk, I would walk it.
I would cold walk into 15businesses a week and just asked
to see the business owner andthen try chatting them up and
see if they'd quote me theirinsurance, and I had done pretty
well according to like theaccolades that they give you.
(04:45):
You know, like I would, I wonall the life insurance awards
and the property and casualtyawards and the commercial
insurance lines awards, but Iwas like I was making like four
grand a month and I had threeyoung kids at home and a wife
and I had to work, like you know, 70 plus hours a week in order
(05:07):
to do this.
You know I'm like working 10 to15 hour days, you know, six
days a week, and so my personallife was just terrible, like
awful.
It was just awful, and so youknow I couldn't do it anymore.
I was burned the fuck out aftertwo years of that, and so it's
like what led me into Googlesearching.
(05:28):
I'd realized there's gotta be abetter way in the way.
That has to be better is I needto get people coming to me.
So the way I thought about thatmy mind was just attraction
marketing was the term that cameup.
I was googling attractionmarketing and that landed me on
this page for a book by DanKennedy called the ultimate
(05:50):
sales ladder.
And so I bought that book and Iread it and you know, dan
convinced me that writing wordswas gonna be the key to me
controlling my income.
Because I didn't have a collegedegree.
You know I and there's a wholenother story on how I ended up
getting into this insuranceagency like that.
(06:10):
I could go on for another houron a loan.
But you know, without thiscollege degree, I happened to,
you know, be in sales and I gotrecruited into insurance and I
shouldn't even have had the jobright Like they.
They pulled a whole bunch ofstrings to get it for me, right.
And so you know I'm a.
I just get convinced that youknow writing words is going to
(06:35):
be the key to me controlling myincome.
So I go down this whole path of, you know, following Dan's
advice on writing sales laddersto try to get leads coming in so
I don't have to be cold callingpeople no more Right, and you
know I go through the wholeprocess.
Send out this letter.
I spent.
I spent a ton of money.
It took spent me.
You know, for me at a time itwas over a grand to, like you
(06:56):
know, mail out this first piece.
You got to get all thesedifferent you know print the
letters.
You got paper postage.
You got to envelope thesethings by mailing lists.
It's crazy, right.
And then the thing didn't workat all.
But I'm pretty hard headed andso, you know, I just was like
I'm just going to keep going andI figured it was something that
(07:16):
I did wrong.
I didn't think it was theletter that didn't work.
It was like I must have donesomething wrong.
I need to do better, right.
So I just I did it.
I did it again.
No results.
And again and again and again,until the sticks try.
I sent out a letter, like whatI would do every time I'd send
out the letters.
I'd sit by the phone for liketwo or three days waiting for
(07:38):
that thing to see if it wasthere, right, and then usually
it was like disappointment.
Disappointment like the twoworst days of my life.
Go home and drink, you know,and this one phone starts
ringing.
Phone rings off the hook.
Everybody that's calling islike homeowners too, like, and I
(08:01):
was like typically working withrenters and low level prospects
from these mailing lists outcold calling lists I was working
on and so these but thesepeople are calling me.
They're like yeah, jason, I gotthis big house over here in
this neighborhood and I gotthree, four cars and I need an
umbrella policy and I want toget some life insurance.
They didn't even say that right, like with the other people I'd
be like I'd have to likesqueeze their arm to even talk
(08:23):
about it, you know.
So you know it was crazy.
And then they just wanted togive me everything Right, and so
it was.
It was like mind blown, and sothat was what I just kind of
expanded upon that and I grew myinsurance business writing
letters and this was like 2005.
All right, and so I did that forlike a year and I got on Dan
(08:46):
Kennedy's newsletter and in hisnewsletter he started featuring
this dude named Corey Rudle, andyou may not have heard his name
anybody that knows anythingabout internet marketing.
Corey Rudolph founded it.
He basically invented internetmarketing, and so Dan was
(09:08):
featuring him talking about howyou can advertise on the
internet, and I'm like Cory'stalking about how you can get
like these penny clicks andstuff like that and it's way
better and centered out directmail to so much cheaper and you
can target and all this shit.
And so then I was like I gotfigured this out and the only
(09:32):
thing that I could think of waswell, I mean, maybe I can make
the in these sales letters I'mwriting, I can make a web page,
because that was how Corey inthe newsletter was talking about
doing it.
Right, so I had to teach myselfbasic HTML.
I was like the next stepbecause they did.
There was no thing like clickfunnels or any of that shit.
It wasn't even word prep at thetime, right, so I had to teach
(09:53):
myself basic HTML and then Iwould write my sales letters on
web pages.
And then I went in and went toGoogle ads.
It was actually called overtureat the time, so that's how old
this was.
Yeah, this was before they evenbecame Google ads, and I would
run ads to these Sales letters,just like I would, and I would
(10:14):
target people in the local area.
Then they just bang, bang, bang, bang bang way cheaper leads
are just flooding in blew up myinsurance business fast forward.
A few years.
I had actually moved fromMinnesota, where I was at, and I
had taken over anotherinsurance agency and I'm doing
all the things I'm doing.
(10:34):
They find out about it.
They didn't like it and so theylabeled me as like a maverick.
You know, like I'm, like I'mdoing things outside of what
they of the norm.
You know what I mean, becausethey you know I wasn't doing all
this the marketing stuff theytaught you right and so they
didn't like that and theystarted like coming down on me
(10:56):
that they like filed a complaintwith the National Association
of Securities Advisors on me,which is this they suspended my
securities license, it, which Iand they found I didn't do
anything wrong, by the way, butbecause all this stuff, that
company soured me and I was like, well, screw this, I'm gonna go
market online full-time and Ilike walked away from my
insurance business and that wasbasically how I got into this
(11:20):
place where I was marketingonline full-time, started taking
on clients.
Fast forward to 2013.
Facebook ads comes on the scene, I started applying what I'm
knowing have been doing toFacebook ads.
That blows up.
I built this force around whatI'm doing.
That blows up, and that's how Igot to be known as the Facebook
(11:40):
guy and the Facebook gang oryou know, like whatever people
like to say, I don't call myselfany of those things unless I'm
joking about it.
You know what I mean.
That's how I got known aboutthat.
But really, if you kind of goall the way back to all that and
this is what I've been tellingyou know, trying to really
change my perception in themarketplace now is because what,
what?
I'm not a I'm not a Facebookads guy.
(12:03):
What I really am is a Personwho understands people and I
understand how to evaluate aproduct that actually works
right.
I want to make sure I qualifythat because people will come to
me with brand new things right.
I only I can make things doreally well for products that
(12:26):
are already proven right andthey already work and and I can
find the unique thing in thereand I can connect that unique
thing to the unique motion ofmotion that is inside the market
right now and Channel thatemotion onto that unique thing
(12:46):
inside of the product or serviceas the fulfillment of this
emotional desire that peoplehave, right, and I have a better
understanding of that and I cando it faster and easier than I
think anybody on the planet.
I can ask a few questions, lookat a couple of things and, with
(13:07):
in 30 minutes, I can have acomplete selling narrative with
a big hook or a big idea, amarketing hook that does all
these things I just talked aboutand can, in some cases, you
know, more than 10x sales byjust, you know, changing some of
this messaging that we do onthe front end into an existing
(13:28):
process Right, sometimes by evenchanging just a headline,
landing page, we're able to, youknow, achieve these kinds of
results With, with people's adsand their marketing funnels, and
it and, like I said, it, hasnothing to do With Facebook ads,
the medium doesn't matter,facebook ads that just happen to
(13:50):
be that.
It was the right time, rightplace for that medium, with the
skill set that I have, right,and that was the media that that
, you know, I used at that timeand continue to use as a way to
achieve these kinds of resultsfor people.
Now the ability achieve thoseresults over the years has
(14:12):
become harder and harder andharder for people since 2013 I
mean, that was 10 years agoalready.
Now you know Facebook haschanged a lot in that time, but,
at the end of the day, thething that still matters is the
message and the offer Right, andthose are the two things that
(14:34):
I've always studied and that I'ma master of, and that's how I'm
able to still, to this day, getpeople the best results that
they've ever seen with Facebookads.
But I don't do it just onFacebook ads either.
We do Google, youtube, tiktokanywhere that you can buy ads.
What I do and what I teachpeople applies to any of those
(14:59):
platforms, and I have that kindof training available inside my
membership site Cool.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
So I want to get into your methodology a little bit,
but before we do that, nowadayseverybody wants a quick win,
right?
Because you can funnel, hack afunnel in 10 minutes.
You're just one funnel away.
It's so easy to make moneyonline, right?
Just anybody can do it, as longas you know a little bit more
than somebody else.
Than you can just rake in thedough, just rake in the dough.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Oh well, that's what.
That's what the people stopshoveling the shit tell you,
yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, and so From your, from where you came from,
like you, like you say, you gotknocked down a whole bunch of
times.
You're, you're.
You had to send out fiveletters before a five at a grand
a pop before one of them worked.
So you said you had a hard head.
Now is that lost in today'sBusinesses, or?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
oh my, oh my god, are you kidding me?
The expect, hey, no, this is oneof the biggest problems I have
with the internet marketingindustry and it has to do with
the people, that most of thepeople coming into this space or
in this space, the people theyidolize, right, a lot of them
Create these Expectations thatare completely wrong with their
(16:18):
marketing, because theyhighlight the unicorn scenarios
right, like these fast wins, the, the big, huge results and they
make in some cases, they can befrom people that just come on
the scene Do.
That is because these people aremasters of psychology like me,
and they understand that thething that sells is Is that big,
(16:42):
fast, quick win, because humanbeings are dumb, fucking lazy
people, and, and, and, and.
What they're doing is isthey're purposefully using
messaging and they have proof toback it up because these
unicorns happen, right, but whatthey do is they use this and
extrapolate it out, to usemessaging to Implicate to
everyone that that's possible tothem, because they're also
(17:05):
using the concept of hope, whichis another highly powerful
human emotion, to get you to buytheir shit Right, and, and then
the vast majority eat thatfucking shit up.
I idolize these people whilenot getting the fucking result
that they're promising anywhereremotely closed, but they still
(17:27):
eat it up.
And then they keep buying moreshit from them because these
guys keep shoveling the fuckingdream that they want to hear,
right yeah, I call those guysHopium dealers.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
They're Hopium dealers.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Right, they get you hooked, and then yeah, then
you're.
Once you're hooked, then theygot you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
You know that whole one funnel away thing, right
Like?
I've written many, many postsabout this particular
phraseology in particular,because, like you were talking
about before we startedrecording the funnel doesn't
fucking matter, it doesn't,right, like you could use
umpteen bajillion funnels, butif you got a shitty offer and
(18:08):
bad messaging or one or theother, that funnel ain't gonna
work.
And that's why all these peoplecome by the time they get to me
, because I preach a messagethat people don't want to
fucking hear.
Most people don't, right.
They don't want to hear this ishard.
They don't want to hear thatyou got to make something unique
.
They want to hear that you canjust copy and paste and fuck off
(18:30):
your way into success.
Right, but that's not how itreally works.
And so you know, only thepeople that understand reality
will resonate with me right away, or after they've been kicked
in the nuts a million times bybuying the dream and spent half
their life savings on it, willthey finally buy into my
messaging.
And then they're reluctant todo what I want to do and they
(18:51):
don't even want to pay me thewages that I asked for, which is
quite a bit less than what mostof these clowns are doing with
the dream, selling them thedream.
They don't even want to paythat anymore because they're
fucking out of money by thattime.
Right it's.
It's the weirdest thing, dude.
I hate it, but that yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I just brought it.
I brought in a client a coupleof weeks ago and I was a little
bit nervous because I knew whatshe needed.
I knew I could serve her and Ido.
I do done for you services.
But when I got on the call withher, she told me she had just
bought a $10,000 certificationprogram where she was going to
learn how to do all this.
She's got a full time job, likeand you know how hard it is to
(19:32):
learn to be a marketing expertlike $10,000 doesn't matter what
you spend, it's not going tohappen unless you put in the
hours.
And I was like, oh man, shejust spent all of that money,
like can she afford me now andagain, I don't charge as much as
these other guys.
But she just dropped all thatand I'm like that's, it's gone,
like you're never, she's nevergoing to get the value out of
that.
And so she ended up hiring meand now we're three weeks in and
(19:54):
we're almost ready to launch.
But had she just spent donewith her own stuff, oh my God,
she'd be years away.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Yeah, and I see that kind of dumb behavior all the
time.
These people will buy thesehigh ticket things because they
they get easily influenced bymaster marketers and sellers.
Right, they'll buy these thingsknowing full well that they
can't fully implement it.
Sometimes they're even in themindset of you know, if I write
(20:21):
this check, it just means thatand I buy this thing, it just
means I'm entitled to a returnof some other form of money,
even if I don't do it all.
And then they'll do these kindsof things where they'll buy
coaching programs like that andthey'll have people that they'll
have multiple coaching programswhere they're listening to,
trying to get advice frommultiple people on different
things at the same time andthey're working with the
professional at the same timeand they're trying to make you
(20:44):
do this, that or the other, andthen they're questioning you
about these things that they'redoing.
It's crazy, bro.
Yeah, people, people, Iunderstand them, and the more I
understand them, the more I justcan't fucking get it Right.
So here's the thing like youknow, you can understand people
(21:06):
and you can.
You can play with it to youradvantage, or you can play with
it to their advantage, right,and then you can advantage off
of other people's advantage.
That's the game that I play.
It's it's not as a profitableof a game, it's not, but at the
end of the day, I can live mylife in 100%, in integrity,
(21:30):
right, and I see a lot, I know.
I know everybody in thisindustry.
I know what happens behinddoors, I know what's in the
secret rooms.
I part of that.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
I was working with a.
I was working with a coachingclient for a couple of years and
he was doing great.
I helped him make over three,three million dollars in two
years.
But then he decided to retireand that's cool.
But anyway, he was retired fortwo months, decided to come back
to work.
He asked if I wanted to return.
I was like, yeah, no, I don't,I don't, I don't think.
So I was doing my own thing bythe.
(22:05):
So he hired somebody else and Italked to him.
He's like oh yeah, I got thisnew guy and he's going to really
help me because he knows somesort of like loan, because he
had a $24,000 program.
He knows, like this loan sharkguy.
So the people who come into myprogram, if they can't afford it
, they can get financed by thisguy.
And this guy's had someunicorns like some rock stars
(22:26):
that have made a lot of money.
But we know the reality inthese coaching programs the
majority of people fail throughno fault of my client, through
no fault of the coach.
Right, and for my level ofintegrity, I'm like so you're
going to get your students tosign up with this loan shark,
knowing full well that 80 to 90percent of your.
Your people aren't going toever be able to pay that loan.
(22:47):
Yeah, because I go.
I was like how can you do thatto some?
He's just he's going to destroy.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, because they don't care.
They, like a lot of people,don't?
They don't care or they don'tthink about that, right, the
only thing that matters is I gotto get my money.
Yeah yeah, I'd rather, I'drather get, I'd rather earn
every dollar and feel like goodabout that.
I'm actually like helpingpeople in that exchange than
(23:13):
taking Right.
I just I'm not a taker, I'm agiver.
You know, I can't, I can't dothat.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
So let's do a ten thousand dollar mastermind in
the next 15 minutes.
Ok, so what?
So when you're starting a newcampaign, what's the first thing
you do to?
To learn about your audience.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Well place right now where I can get everything I
need with a few questions from acustomer, because I've I've
worked in pretty much everyniche market imaginable and most
of the people that come to meare going to fall into the
usually into the major niches.
Right, there's health wealthand finance, or health wealth
(23:57):
and fitness.
What health wealth?
Why am I getting that wrong?
I know.
Anyways, there's three majormarkets.
Right, I'm trying to.
Yeah, I'm missing the.
I'm missing the relationshipHealth wealth and relationships.
Those are the three.
Yeah, so I mean, I know thegeneral avatars on both sides of
(24:17):
those coins, right, and I knowlike a lot of how to market to
them already in general.
Right, so, what, what I do whenI bring out a client is we have
an initial kickoff call andI'll just grill them about the
people that are buying from themalready.
Right, because, like I saidbefore, I'm only working with
(24:39):
people that have proven offers.
Right, this is a lot harderwhen you're making something new
, right, you can't do thesekinds of things, right?
And so the people I'm talkingto, they have buyers all the
time and they're getting there.
They're possibly having phoneconversations with them, you
know, they're getting emailsinto their customer support.
(25:00):
They're having comments ontheir ads and stuff like that
and blog posts and things likethat.
So we have a lot of data pointsthat we can reference, and the
first question I always ask iswhat are, what are the people
that are buying from you?
How are they describing theproblems that they want you to
solve?
Okay, because that's that whenI, when I say it that way, how
(25:26):
are they describing it?
What are?
When they come to you and theysay, hey, mike, I need your help
, this is what I need your helpwith.
How are they saying that?
Because that allows us to.
From the you know, there's thisconcept called entering the
conversation in the prospect'smind.
That comes out of the RobertCollier Letterbook, which was
(25:48):
written in the late 1800s, butit's a very common copywriting
axiom, and the reason thatthat's important is because we
want to be using the language inour advertising and our
marketing to lead into ourselling process with the
(26:13):
language that people are usingtop of conscious, because that's
how they can identify that weunderstand their issue.
All right, and so that'sabsolutely crucial to success in
advertising is being able tocreate that identification that
(26:36):
you understand their problem and, ideally, you want to be able
to understand, show that youunderstand it better than they
do, and you do that by beingreally clear on what their
problem is, because some peoplearen't.
You know this all variesdepending on the market and the
product and everything like that, and this is why you had
mentioned I in the when you cameout here.
(26:58):
I talk about awareness, becausethat level of awareness is of
where they're at with even withtheir own problem, right, like
people might just be aware thatthey've got an issue, but
they're not even really sure ofwhat's causing that issue, for
example.
But other times there's peoplethat are really crystal clear on
what's causing that issue,right?
(27:19):
So if you got, if you'remarketing a product to people
that aren't really clear on whatthe issue is, you got to make
them clear on what that issue isfirst, right, before you tell
them about the solution, becausethey're not ready to accept
that there is a solution untilthey know what their problem
clearly is.
Right Now, other markets arealready aware clearly of what
(27:39):
their problem is, and so all yougot to do is tell them about
your solution.
So what you do in your copy andyour advertising is entirely
informed by a deep understandingof your ideal customer and
particularly an awareness ofunderstanding what their level
of awareness is for their ownproblem, for the problem that
(28:02):
you solve, for the fact thatthere is a solution out there
right, and for the fact thatyour solution is the best.
Okay, that's the sequence ofthought we have to take people
through and we start with thatconversation in their mind
around how they're experiencingwhatever problem it is that your
(28:24):
product or service solve.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Yes, that's the way I identify that.
Now there's two levels ofunderstanding.
There's first the experientialunderstanding, and that's what
you just talked about level ofawareness and level
sophistication.
That's their experience, wherethey've been awareness of their
problem.
And then what have they heard?
What is your competition saying?
Like in the weight loss space,we've got a highly sophisticated
audience right.
Like they've heard everythingunder this time.
(28:49):
Like so hard to come up withsomething new.
I just I started working with aclient a couple of months ago
and he's a lawyer who suesfinancial advisors.
That's all he does.
So I was like, oh my gosh, likeI haven't seen this one ad for,
hey, if you lost money withyour financial advisor, we can
get it back.
Like it's that simple.
I don't need a unique mechanism, I don't need a big idea,
(29:12):
because there's no, there's nocrowd in that marketplace.
But again, if I was doing aweight loss thing, oh my gosh,
then you got to have a levelcopy writing skills Mm, hmm, mm
hmm.
Yep, that's exactly right.
And with the speaking theaudience's language, I just got
a three X increase onconversions Cause and I knew my
(29:32):
copy was good.
I like talking to a generatingrevenue, like let me help you
generate revenue right, and itwasn't converting.
And then I said let me help youmake more sales.
And guess what?
Right, like it means the samething.
But how many people have evercome to you and said, hey Jason,
you know I need to generatemore revenue?
Like, they don't say that.
Hey Jason, I need to make moresales and I need to make them
(29:53):
today.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
Yeah, so that's a really good point there, mike.
So this is this illustrates whatI'm talking about and why I
asked that question in thebeginning of you know, when I'm
working with customers, of whatare people, how are people
describing the solution thatthey're looking for, and stuff
like that.
Right, because when we, when we,as a business owner or media
(30:15):
buyer or advertiser, when westart writing, we have a track
in our own mind of what we wantto say, right, and that will
color the words that we use, andusually there's like an
educational piece that's comingto.
You know, it's influencing thatthought process on how we're
(30:37):
coming up with the words thatwe're gonna say.
And so we'll say things likegenerating revenue, where it
sounds amazing in our own head,right, like, oh my God, this is
totally while people arethinking about this, but no,
it's actually only how you'rethinking about it in that moment
, and that's a really commonexample.
And so, by switching it to theway that they are, actually
(30:58):
because I've talked to tens ofthousands of business owners now
over the years you know everysingle one of them when they're
talking about what they want,they want leads and what sales,
the exact words that come out oftheir mouth always right.
They never say I need revenue.
No one ever says that right,yeah, so you know.
And that's why, when you switchto the word, I've got a
master's degree.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
I've got a master's degree, Jason.
Like I should speak at thelevel that I'm educated, yeah
but that's another big mistake.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
In writing.
Yeah, and that's why, if you so, I teach people about using
this thing called the Hemingwayapp, where it measures what's
called the flesh kingcadereadability score, which has a
grade level that it assigns toit.
One of the secrets of orationis that the average human being
(31:47):
reads and listens at a fifthgrade level, no matter what
their education is Okay, and ifyou take any state of the union
address from any president andyou plug it into this thing,
it'll come out at fifth gradelevel or lower every time.
Oh yeah, yeah, cause all speechwriters know this stuff and
(32:09):
they actually use this, becausewhen you're talking, when you're
talking to people, you need totalk clearly.
The only way to talk clearly isto talk at lower grade levels.
That doesn't mean you'redumbing things down.
It just means you're not usingextraneous language, if you like
.
How I use an example of thatright there.
You're not using extraneouslanguage that can confuse people
(32:34):
or bore people.
Speaker 1 (32:38):
Exactly, yeah, no, I use the Hemingway app all the
time cause, like say I smartmyself way too often and I think
what's gonna happen now likejust the world is getting so
much easier and like, say, onefunnel away and you know 15
minute hacks, and now we've gotAI and chat GPT, like chat can
(32:58):
just write me a script now and Ican just copy and paste, but
chat's not understanding theaudience, I don't think.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
No, I mean it doesn't understand audience.
So here's the thing about anysoftware and AI in particular,
or I mean so many things,including your body, like,
there's this phrase.
It's called garbage in, garbageout.
So the copy that you get out ofchat GPT is only gonna be as
(33:27):
good as the prompting that youput into the thing.
So in the vast majority ofbusiness owners that I talked to
, they don't know dick reallyabout their audience.
That's why I gotta ask them allthese pointed questions to get
out the truth.
If I ask them, oh, tell meabout your avatar, if they know
anything about it, they're gonnaspit off a bunch of big level
(33:51):
generalized demographics, right.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, age salary political.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
And usually they're off base with that stuff.
Once we dive into who's reallybuying, cause like we can
validate these things.
You know what I mean?
It's funny, like cause, like alot I'll get.
I'll work with a lot of bigorganizations where they got
multiple departments and I'llask the owner about their avatar
and then they'll give me thatkind of thing and then I'll ask
(34:18):
the guy that's doing the saleshey, dude, tell me about who's
buying.
And it's like this guy.
The owner told me that peoplethat are buying are dudes and
the sales guys like now, all thechicks are buying.
So, like the, how much thebusiness owner really actually
knows their customer is usuallynot a whole lot, and it's if
(34:43):
they know it at all, which iswhich is shocking, right?
So when people start saying,yeah, I'll just use chat GPT to
figure it out, no, you won't,because you don't even know who
you're going after begin with.
That's why your shit ain'tworking right.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
All right.
So if you were to give onepiece of advice for a business
owner to really move the needlefor sales, for revenue, what
would you, what piece of advicewould you give?
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Yeah, actually spend the time to really get to
understand your customer on adeep level, you know, on the
emotional level, because thethings that they're going to
tell you on the surface that'snot there.
Are most old things, right,like they're always going to say
it leads to sale.
Any more leads to sale rightNow.
If anybody's been in selling,they've probably heard of the
(35:34):
concept of probing down.
Right, and this is probing downis how you get to the emotional
core, and you really need tokeep doing this over and over
again in your market to get tothat emotional core, right.
So when people say I want leadsin sales, yeah, well, why is
that important to you?
Why are leads in salesimportant to you?
And they'll say because I wantmore money.
Well, why do you want moremoney?
(35:54):
Well, more money is going togive me more time.
Well, why do you need more time?
Well, you know I'm coming up onthis age, I've been working
really hard, I'm actuallygetting tired and burnt out and
I want to spend more time withmy family.
Why you want to spend more timewith your family?
Why is that important to you?
Well, because you know when Iwas a kid, my dad wasn't home
(36:19):
very much and that made me feelthis way.
Bam, emotional core, right,yeah, yeah, yeah.
And so you know you're going tofind, when you do this kind of
probing, that there are.
There's the general motivatingemotions, right?
So, like when I went from thelevel of leads and sales down
(36:39):
below, that it was money, right.
And I said, well, why do youwant more money?
It's because I want freedom,right.
And the reason I said that isbecause every business owner
I've ever talked to, when I walkthrough that chain of questions
, those are the exact sameanswers that they will give me.
They say I want leads and salesbecause I want money.
They say leads and salesbecause, if they say I want
money, that's not sociallyacceptable.
(37:01):
It makes them seem like they'regreedy.
So they use leads and sales toconceptualize money.
And then you ask them well, whydo you want that?
Then they have to reveal thatit's because they want money,
unless they're going to lie toyou, right?
Which, again, is not sociallyacceptable.
So I'm diving into thepsychology behind this stuff,
right?
You got to understand thesethings if you want to be good at
(37:22):
this shit, right?
So the reason that then they'llsay money, right.
And then the only reason thatpeople want money is because
they know that money is thevehicle that gives them freedom.
That's the only way that we canhave true freedom in this life.
To say, fuck you, I'm going todo whatever I want is I've got
enough money in the bank to dothat.
Everybody knows that Right, andat the end of the day, anybody
(37:50):
that's ever bought a got into abusiness.
They got into a businessbecause they wanted freedom, and
most of them end up justbuilding themselves a J-O-B that
has extreme amounts of stress,anxiety and responsibility tied
to it that you don't have withthe J-O-B.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
Right, that's right.
Yeah, yeah, cool.
Let me just check my list ofquestions, but I think we I
didn't nailed it all.
I wish this was like a livecall, because I'm sure people
would have like yeah, did we?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
did we meet in die, in Meander or around the map?
Enough there to bring it fullcircle.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah, exactly, we started there and we ended there
.
There we go.
Okay, I think all that's leftis you've clearly provided value
.
Clearly provide can help people, help businesses.
If our listeners wanted toreach out to you, what's?
What's the best way to?
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Yeah, so I got this website that's
academyofadvertisingcom, and so,you know, people, can, you know
, contact me through there.
They can learn about all thedifferent ways that we can help
people and then, if they'reinterested in, you know,
experiencing some of thetrainings and stuff that I have,
there's an option for people toget a free course on there.
(39:10):
So they can, you know, registerfor that and they can, you know
, apply it to their campaigns,get results and makes them extra
money and then use some of thatto hire, you know, work with
them on a deeper level.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Cool.
I came into your world a fewyears ago and the first thing I
found from you is that you tendto over deliver.
I was like holy smokes, like Ican't believe I paid this little
and got that much.
That was the first thing I gotfrom you and the second thing I
got was, like man, this guy'sharsh.
(39:44):
But the thing is, is I likeharsh?
I remember once I hired some Iwas going to put I live off the
grid and I was going to get awind turbine put up at my house,
and so I hired this wind expertto come and give me the stats
for whether we should have windhere or not.
Anyway, we put the wind towerup and we get really good wind
from the west, which is whereyou should come from.
(40:07):
But we've got a hill in thenortheast.
Wind doesn't usually come fromthere, but that hill in the
northeast causes like a eddiesto form.
So even when we have a goodwest wind, we didn't have a
clean wind, anyway, to shortenthe story.
So after, when it wasn't working, he's like oh, yeah, yeah, no,
I, yeah, I expected that tohappen.
I'm like well, why didn't youtell me that?
(40:27):
He's like you just hired me totell you.
Tell me what you wanted to hearwhat.
No, I hired you to know whetherI should put the wind turbine
up.
He thought I wanted a windturbine.
I wanted him to validate it,but he should have told me the
truth and I would have savedlike $12,000.
And so that's what I like about.
That's what I like about you isthat, like I show you my, my
(40:50):
funnel page and it sucks.
You're not going to pat me onthe back.
Oh, good, try.
You just said well, it's notgoing to work.
And these are the three reasonswhy I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
I don't apologize for anything.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
Yeah, no like you know, this is, this is what
you're doing wrong.
From my 20 years experience, Iknow what's going to work.
You can either do it or not,but that's it Right and that's
uh.
There's not enough of that outthere.
Like, say, you're not a hope?
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Well, I mean like and that comes out of my you know
my childhood.
You know my parents were aroundmuch, you know, and if I needed
anything I needed to go make itfor myself.
You know I didn't need to makeit happen.
So I've never had I didn't.
Participation.
Trophies don't mean shit to me.
Uh, only thing that matters tome is winning, and I think that
there's people are far too softthese days.
(41:37):
You know what I mean.
Like all they, all they want todo is have their feelings
coddled and, at the end of theday, money could give a shit
about your feelings.
You know what I mean.
Like nobody, no, I don't careabout anybody's feelings.
Like I care about your resultsand so, like, if what you show
me is going to, in my opinion,is going to get you the results
(42:00):
that you're expecting, I'm goingto be like hell, yeah, this is
awesome, Right.
Like you don't see that a wholelot in my group, because
there's not many people thatactually put good stuff together
right away and I'll tell themlike, look, this is, this is
what's wrong, and I'll be bluntabout it.
I'm not going to be.
I don't become harshly criticalfor no reason, right, but I,
(42:22):
what, what, what, what I thinkyou're getting at there and I've
kind of been explaining this alot lately is, you know, because
I'm I?
I I like Tony Robbins a lot,Right, and you've heard me curse
a few times on here, and thisis really where the harshness
comes from is because I'll I'lluse cursing, like Tony Robbins
does, in order to pattern,interrupt people, to jolt them
(42:45):
out of the things that they'vebeen doing that are keeping them
from success.
Right, and a lot of times thissee, a lot of people will send
things, not because they intendon actually doing anything with
it, but they're seeking approval.
You know what I mean.
And and so you know, like yougot to do things like this to
(43:06):
get people out of these badpatterns that are keeping them
from getting the result thatthey want.
Now some people respond to itand then they get results.
Others, like they're like oh,you can't handle it.
Then they go off to somebodythat's gonna, you know, rub baby
oil on their butt and tell themwhat they want to hear.
There's all kinds of massageparlors in town you can get that
(43:36):
from.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
All right.
Well, thanks for thanks forcoming on my show, jason.
You're like the first, firstformal guest I've had, so this
is.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
I appreciate it, Mike .
So I hope everyone got value.
And again, if you want to, youknow, learn more and you're down
with a, with an insane clownlike me, you can go to Academy
of Advertisingcom.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Yeah, I'll put a link in the bio, for sure.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
All right, appreciate it, mike.
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Jason.
See you next time.
And that is a wrap for thisepisode of Because Business is
Personal.
Thanks for joining us and don'tforget to take advantage of my
two special offers.
First, you can get a free copyof my bestselling book, empathic
Marketing.
You just pay for the shipping.
Or you get a 50% discount on myGap Analysis session with the
(44:30):
coupon code.
Podcast Just head over towwwBecauseBusinessIsPersonalcom
or check the show notes fordetails.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please don't forget to
follow, subscribe, leave areview and share the podcast
with others who might benefit.
Your support means the world tous, so stay tuned for our next
(44:53):
episode, where we'll continue todelve into the intersection of
empathy and marketing strategy.
Remember, because Business isIndeed Personal, every
Connection Counts Until nexttime.
See you then.
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