August 14, 2023 • 44 mins
To access Michelle's free training:
- Designed to give you information on writing and publishing your book that you may not have known. We have taken some of our most frequently asked questions and turned them into bite-sized modules to give you tools to succeed in the publishing industry.
https://gracepointmatrix.teachable.com/p/intro-to-publishing
Welcome to the Because Business is Personal podcast, where empathy meets marketing strategy. Today I'm excited to share my conversation with Michelle Vandepas, an accomplished author, speaker and coach with profound insights into publishing, online marketing and living with purpose.
Michelle lives in the Colorado mountains with her family, 40 goldfish and the occasional mountain lion or bear sighting. She finds grounding in the natural beauty around her home. We began our discussion learning about Michelle's interesting hobby of keeping giant goldfish in a greenhouse. This led to sharing stories of our past experiences working in movies filmed in Colorado.
As a book publisher, Michelle helps clients get their important messages out into the world through books and other mediums. During our talk, she provided wisdom on viewing books not as the business itself, but as a key part of one's overall marketing strategy. Michelle also discussed challenges of supply chain issues during Covid and over-reliance on major distributors. Her insightful perspective came from decades of experience in entrepreneurship and marketing.
Incorporating empathy is central to Michelle's approach. She emphasized understanding oneself as a marketer to authentically connect with audiences. Michelle suggested practical ways listeners can immediately foster human connections crucial to business success. Her message underscores focusing outreach on those truly needing your solutions over chasing arbitrary metrics.
Michelle offered lessons learned from weathering difficulties like lost reviews and supply problems. Her passion for empowering others with messaging shined through. I encourage you to visit Michelle's website to learn how she may assist with your book or message. Thank you for tuning in to gain these impactful insights on living purposefully through business.
Eager to harness the power of Empathic Marketing to propel your business growth? Get your hands on my #1 Amazon Best Selling book, 'Empathic Marketing,' or book a '30-Minute Gap Analysis' session directly from my website: www.becausebusinessispersonal.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike Caldwell (00:00):
Hey, welcome to the Because Business is Personal
podcast, the podcast whereempathy meets marketing strategy
.
I'm your host, mike Caldwell,but I'm also known as the
marketing medic.
Now, the reason for that isbecause, before becoming a
marketing strategist, I actuallyworked as a paramedic for 12
years, and it was during thattime that I realized how
(00:20):
important it was to trulyunderstand the problems your
patient was facing before youstarted providing treatment.
And it's the same understanding, the same empathy, is just as
crucial when it comes tounderstanding our prospects and
making sales, and that's why, ineach episode, we'll dissect the
art of empathic marketing,exploring how top professionals
(00:44):
infuse empathy into theirstrategies to build stronger
relationships, boost their salesand make a lasting impact.
So buckle up and prepare toturn up the dial on your
marketing effectiveness.
As we gear up to dive deeperinto the realm of empathic
marketing, I'd like to share acouple of special offers with
you.
First, you can get a free copyof my international bestselling
(01:07):
book Empathic Marketing.
You only need to cover the costof shipping.
Reading this will provide youwith a much more in-depth
understanding of theempathy-based marketing approach
that we explore in this show.
Next, I'm offering a 50%discount on a transformative
30-minute gap analysis sessionwith me.
Reading this session willidentify the hurdles in your
(01:30):
marketing efforts and togetherwill develop an actionable
roadmap aimed at winning youmore clients and making you more
sales.
Just visit my website,wwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
to grab your book or use couponcode podcast to take advantage
of my gap analysis offer.
(01:51):
So why wait?
Let's start turbocharging yourmarketing strategy today.
Now let's get started with ourepisode.
Everyone welcome back to theBecause Business Is Personal
podcast.
Today we have Michelle VanDepass, who is an accomplished
professional who captivates withher empowering message and
(02:11):
unwavering support.
As a seasoned author, speakerand coach, she has a wealth of
experience and profound insightsinto publishing, online
marketing and living withpurpose.
Michelle lives in the mountainsof Colorado, as I once did,
where she lives with her family,40 goldfish and I'm going to
have to ask some questions aboutthose goldfish and the
(02:33):
occasional mountain lion or bear.
Oh my, michelle is oftenwalking through nature, thinking
of new ways to help her clientslive their most authentically
successful lives and alsogrounding herself in the beauty
of the world around her, whetherat home or through her travel.
So welcome Michelle.
So excited to have fellowColoridian here with me.
Michelle Vandepas (02:58):
Yeah, absolutely, it's a pleasure to
be here.
Thanks for having me.
Mike Caldwell (03:02):
Very cool indeed.
So the book I wrote is calledEmpathic Marketing and my
podcast is called BecauseBusiness Is Personal.
So clearly I like to dip intothe human side of things.
So before we get into allthings business, my first
question is what is somethingnot business related about you
(03:23):
that our listeners may findinteresting or quirky?
And if it involves 40 goldfish,I'd love to hear that answer.
I was going to say it.
Michelle Vandepas (03:30):
so I got a couple of stories.
But 40 goldfish is pretty cool.
So you're from Colorado.
You may know about the growingdomes where you have their big
like translucent greenhousesthat will go through the
mountains and you can put a bigfish tank in there.
The idea is that you can growtilapia or something right and
(03:53):
then you use that water togarden.
But I put 99-cent goldfish inthere and I've had some of them
for a decade now and they'relike this big and I got a big
like propagating baby.
So I've got like six littlebabies like this from this year
(04:15):
and then I have like hugegoldfish.
They act like coy and they swimaround.
They're super cool and I go upthere when I need a moment of
zen.
Mike Caldwell (04:25):
Wow.
And so I had like one goldfishgrowing up in my little goldfish
bowl and I had to change thewater all the time and that was
a pretty involved process justchanging the like.
We had to take the goldfish outof the one jar and put it in
another one.
How do you?
How do you do that with?
Michelle Vandepas (04:41):
I don't, I don't, I just don't.
So probably should Send me hatemail, please, nobody.
But what I do do, what we do do, is we have an aerator in there
and we got a fountain thatcirculates the water and I think
that helps, and then I put somelive plants in there once in a
while and I think that helps.
(05:01):
And so the water can get alittle dirty, but eventually it
cleans itself out.
Mike Caldwell (05:06):
Oh cool, it's more of a natural environment.
Michelle Vandepas (05:08):
It's a very yes, that's a good way to put it
.
It's a holistic naturalenvironment.
Mike Caldwell (05:13):
Okay, but why don't you hit me with another
non-business interestingMichelle fun fact?
Michelle Vandepas (05:21):
So I took my daughter to be an extra in a
movie one time was RobertRedford and Jane Fonda and she
didn't get to be cast.
But I did, oh, no and yeah.
So I asked her is it okay if Igo?
She's like yes, she was like Idon't know, maybe 14 or
something, at the time inFlorence, colorado.
(05:42):
Do you remember Florence fromyour days here, tiny little town
South of Colorado.
Mike Caldwell (05:47):
Springs Right?
Yes, I didn't get.
I spent most of my time like inthe heart of the Rocky, so I
didn't get too far that way.
Michelle Vandepas (05:54):
Tiny little town and they filmed down there
and I went down for like threedays of filming and it was super
fun and I'd never been on thefilm set before and there was a
waitress or cafe owner and allof this and we told the
celebrities in the movie not asa caterer.
(06:15):
And then the movie came out, mywhole family gathers around
their word glued to it, right,and you see me changing that.
The opening scene is I'mchanging from the cafe sign from
open to closed and we're like,oh, opening scene, that's so
cool.
You can't see my face oranything.
And then we watched the wholemovie and that's it.
(06:37):
I got like this.
It's like that.
I have like a half a second inthe movie.
You can't even see my face, butit was super fun.
Mike Caldwell (06:48):
Well, I was actually in a movie in Colorado
as well, and I was on the screenmuch longer, but you couldn't
see me, and so when I was inColorado, I was a paramedic, I
was a firefighter paramedic, andI also worked on some of the
movies, some of the movies thatwere filmed there, and so I
can't remember the name of themovie, but it was Danny Glover
(07:08):
and Dennis Quaid.
Michelle Vandepas (07:10):
And Danny.
Mike Caldwell (07:10):
Glover was a serial killer and he had this
really cool car where he hadlike all like nudy pictures of
girls, like that, upholstered,his frenzied of scar, and he
used to kill people by slashingtheir femoral arteries, anyway,
and Dennis Quaid was the copthat was chasing after him.
And anyway, the scene that Iwas in, they're on a train just
(07:30):
north of Vale.
They're the hosts.
Let's say yeah, yeah, докум, ifyou got today's movie, yeah,
but they'reinsideestonabsolutely acknowledged this
right now, sorry, ah, inconditions like this.
And they were, they're fightingDanny Glover and Dennis Quaid.
They weren't there when I wasthere there was the stunt
doubles, but they were fightingon the roof of the train and we
kept.
We had to do all these liketest shots and test shots there
there's a whole bunch wascrammed into this caboose and
(07:50):
then when it was actually wewere finally ready to shoot the
scene, like okay, everybody offthe caboose, everybody, you know
Gone.
So I started to leave, likewhere are you going?
I'm, like you said, everybodyoff.
Like no, the director and themedic stays in the caboose.
So everybody else had to getoff and we had like huddled down
so you couldn't see us.
Well, you know the Dennis andRandy.
(08:11):
Dennis and Danny stunt doubleswere fighting on the roof above.
So yeah, I was, I was in themovie for you know a couple of
minutes, but you couldn't see mebecause I was and I did.
I met Danny Glover.
I treated him a fair number oftimes.
He the dry air in Coloradoreally bothered his nose and so
(08:32):
he kept getting nosebleeds.
He got a lot of nosebleeds outthere just from the dry air, but
anyway, that's, you couldn'tsee how's there?
Alright, so let's.
So let me tell.
Tell me a little bit about yourbusiness and what you do.
Michelle Vandepas (08:47):
Well, first and foremost, I'm a book
publisher, but what that reallymeans is I help people get their
Message out, live their purposethrough some usually business
or entrepreneurial venture in abook usually is part of that.
Okay, get your message out andyou have a fabulous book.
(09:08):
Right, empathetic business.
Did I get that Pathic?
marketing marketing, marketingTitle.
I just love it.
Impact, so I'm sure and talkabout that and so you know it's
part of your message, is part ofyour Foundation, it's all kind
of part of your and so I coach alot around.
How do you bring your Message,your purpose, your meaning and
(09:32):
your business together and get,find all the different ways to
find your audience, and the bookis part of that.
Mike Caldwell (09:39):
Okay, yeah, cuz I think a lot of people Published
their book with the plan andthat's gonna be their business,
like their book, right.
But it's really just aglorified credit card, or not?
Credit card business card.
Michelle Vandepas (09:51):
It's a great business card that gives you a
published author, gives you somedecent authority, right totally
, and you know people will buyfrom you because you have a book
, or they will be impressedbecause you have a book, even if
they Never read the book.
Mike Caldwell (10:07):
That's right.
That is so true.
So what motivated you to becomewhat you are today, and have
you had any regrets since makingthat decision?
Michelle Vandepas (10:19):
So, as an entrepreneur, I think all of us
have some sleepless nights onoccasion, right?
Mike Caldwell (10:24):
Yes.
Michelle Vandepas (10:25):
I don't have regrets.
I don't think I had anotherchoice.
Really I've been doing this Notthe book, these but I started
in marketing, like in the 90s.
I had a couple of smallbusinesses and I was helping
other people market theirbusinesses.
And when you're helping otherpeople market so much of that is
(10:47):
coaching, right you have tolike ask questions and listen
and find out how they want tomarket when you know I mean, I'm
going back a ways here like getthe internet, we're talking
about putting flyers up atgrocery stores, right and you're
figuring out how to get theword out about your business.
And that just sort of naturallymorphed into what I do now,
(11:11):
which is coaching and consultingand helping people grow their
businesses Through what I wouldcall a holistic approach and
aligned approach and using booksand Podcasts and all those
other ones to help get yourmessage out.
Mike Caldwell (11:27):
Okay, and you kind of touched on it with, like
the, with the flyers anddifferent things.
But since you have been doingthis for so long and you know
sort of not yeah, I guess Ithink I got my first email
address and maybe like 1999 orsomething, so the internet
wasn't really that big, you know.
So how, how has what you dochanged?
(11:50):
What are the sort of compareand contrast, like the pros and
cons from them?
Because everybody Everything's,it's so hard now, but, like,
how does it compare and contrastto the earlier days?
Michelle Vandepas (12:00):
Yeah, you know, what's interesting is on
the outside, everything'schanged, but internally, nothing
is.
You're still doing businesswith people.
You still have to makeconnections.
You still have to look atpeople in the eye.
I mean, yeah, you can like setup your shopping cart and hope
people like click and buy, butthere has to be people
(12:20):
underneath.
That AI is not going to takeover the world.
That's my personal view,because we still need that in
our archery, still need humanconnection, and so none of that
has changed.
I talk all the time about thinkhow your great grandparents did
business.
Think about going to some ruralcommunity and you go to a farm
(12:41):
stand.
That's really at the root ofall of it, and so none of that
has really changed.
If you're struggling in yourbusiness, it's probably a lead
thing, my gas and it could beall kinds of things, but it
might be you don't have enoughleads, you don't have enough
clients, and the way to fix thatis go talk to more people.
Okay, right, which is what youand I are doing right now,
(13:05):
exactly and Expanding our reach,our network.
Hopefully, we're having somefun doing it.
Yeah, so that is changed.
Yeah, the internet is changed.
It's really busy out there, butthere's more people to sell to.
So you still have to find your,your sweet spot, your niche.
Mike Caldwell (13:23):
Okay, it's.
I see you did a Ted talk.
I want to ask you about that ina second.
But I am applying to get my ownTed talk now, like you say, to
reach out, get that exposure.
And you know my?
Of course you don't know.
I just I'll tell you my Tedtalk is entitled AI may be the
future, but human connectionwill always be the present.
Michelle Vandepas (13:44):
I, so I heard a podcast yesterday with the
guy who started Khan Academy.
Mike Caldwell (13:56):
Okay, what is that?
Michelle Vandepas (14:00):
KHA and Academy.
It's like the biggest schoolYouTube.
Like, if you want to learnabout a math equation, you go to
Khan Academy and they'll justteach you for free.
Okay, cool.
All right, but he's talkingabout future of AI and business
and it's like he's building thisthing out.
That's like Star Trek, theholly-holly bones, where they
(14:24):
Halledeck yes.
Well, that actually sounds superfun, right to go on the house.
So there's pieces of AI I thinkI'm looking forward to I'm not
quite there yet, but but it'snever gonna replace these kinds
of conversations.
Mike Caldwell (14:38):
No, and I'm actually using chat GBT more and
more every day, and it's justmy research assistant now, and
so I still make those humanconnections one-on-one because
those are necessary.
But before, when I wanted tolearn about my audience, I'd
have to go into all thedifferent Facebook groups and
read the comments and askquestions, wait for responses,
go to Amazon, look at mycompetitors, books, see what the
(15:00):
comments are to get an idea ofwho my audience is.
And now chat.
Michelle Vandepas (15:06):
Chatted me.
What's that I'm a GPT chattedme, did I?
I put my name in GPT chat tofind out, to prepare.
That's what I'm asking, right.
Mike Caldwell (15:19):
Oh no, I did not do that.
I did not do that because chatGPT is only yeah, so it only
goes back.
Michelle Vandepas (15:30):
it's two years before now and prior to
that, so it doesn't have a lotof new stuff.
Mike Caldwell (15:34):
So if I wanted, to talk to you now.
It wouldn't know the last twoyears about you.
That's the most important stuff,right, but for my customer
avatar it can do a lot of theresearch a lot faster than I
could before, and so I do a lotof the stuff I teach is from
Eugene Swartz BreakthroughAdvertising, which is a really
famous marketing book, and chathas read that.
(15:55):
So I can ask you, based onEugene Swartz Breakthrough
Advertising Problem AwarenessScale, where is my audience in X
, y and Z?
And it'll give me that answerbased on how I asked it, and so
now when I talk to my avatar, Ican speak to them at the level
that they're at, and so it'svery helpful for those reasons.
Michelle Vandepas (16:16):
Well, I can't wait to watch your TED Talk
coming.
Mike Caldwell (16:20):
Yes, yes, all right, let's see what my next
question is.
So can you share an interestingstory about a major challenge
you faced in your business andwhat did you do to overcome that
?
Michelle Vandepas (16:39):
There's been so many.
So you know, in the middle ofCOVID we lost books on the docs
and in the tankers and in Chinaand all that stuff, right, oh no
, publishers had supply chainissues and books lost.
I don't know if I'm allowed toreally say who, but there's one
(17:09):
big distributor of books thateverybody knows.
It's a pain in the freakingbutt.
Oh no okay and as a bookpublisher, you know, when you
have just really one or twoplaces where most people buy
their books and you have to beon their platforms, it's really
difficult as an entrepreneur tolike have all your eggs in one
(17:31):
basket right.
I don't like that, and so I'malways looking for other ways to
get books out and other ways todistribute.
What are other ways that youcan connect with your audience
and where else can we sell it?
Because otherwise we're justrelying on, like Amazon or
Amazon Mobile or whatever theequivalent is in Canada.
Mike Caldwell (17:52):
Same to yeah, yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (17:53):
W H Smith in the UK.
Right, and we.
As an entrepreneur, you can'tput your eggs in one basket, so
that's one of the things thatkeeps me up at night still.
Mike Caldwell (18:03):
Right.
Michelle Vandepas (18:03):
I'm learning about that.
And then, of course, always, Ithink, for every entrepreneur
how do you get enough leads?
How do you get the right leads?
How do you get the right leadsfaster?
Mike Caldwell (18:13):
Right.
Michelle Vandepas (18:14):
And I don't even like to call them leads,
and I think this speaks to yourlanguage.
How do you find your clientsand your future customers to
need what you have Right, and sothe background is lead, but
that sounds so cold and harsh,and really what I'm looking for
are the people that need what Ihave, and we're a good match.
Mike Caldwell (18:38):
Okay, I have a real estate coach client, so
he's a realtor coach.
He teaches other realtors howto be better realtors and
realtors are all about theirdatabase.
Right, how big is your database?
And like you, he hates thatterm.
He's like no, you don't need adatabase.
You need between 50 and 100ultimate humans in your life.
(19:01):
So, he likes to call hisdatabase ultimate humans and he
treats them like ultimate humans.
He doesn't treat them like dataright, and that's a huge
difference when you look at thatway.
Yeah, yeah.
So what did you do when yourbooks disappeared off the docks?
Like, how'd you overcome that?
Michelle Vandepas (19:21):
Oh yeah, I'll cry a lot.
Mike Caldwell (19:23):
Just crying works .
Yes, crying is very helpful.
Michelle Vandepas (19:26):
Our clients were like yelling at us and
there's nothing we could do,like everybody was just so
burned out during COVID.
You know, it's like it's hardto remember.
It wasn't that long ago, 2021,books just were not getting
shipped from various places andthe end of 2020, things were
just stuck.
If you guys remember, we sawpictures of tanker ships that
(19:49):
stuck in canals.
Right, that's right.
A lot of those were full ofbooks Okay.
And supply chain issues.
We all thought it would betoilet paper.
Well, it was books, amongstother things, and so you know.
You have an author who is soexcited for a book launch and
then their books don't arriveand there's nothing we can do.
(20:09):
We're like it's out there inthe middle of the ocean
somewhere.
That was hard.
The only thing you can do istell the truth and try to work
through it together.
There's really nothing else youcan do.
Mike Caldwell (20:21):
So, as a book publisher, it sounds like you're
in a David and Goliathsituation.
So like how do you competeagainst Amazon?
How does that even work?
Michelle Vandepas (20:33):
Right?
Well, you can't.
You have to put your eggs intheir basket.
Mike Caldwell (20:37):
Okay.
Michelle Vandepas (20:37):
And then sell through Amazon.
You can't compete with them, sowe publish through Amazon as
well as through other places,right, okay, and they take their
cut.
That's true of the bookstore,too.
They take their cut, anddistributors take their cut, and
printers take their cut, andthen if someone returns a book,
everybody loses that whole cut,right?
(20:58):
And so it's not a question ofcompeting and I think this is
probably true with mostbusinesses.
It's finding out who you haveto play with, like, in our case,
amazon.
And then who else can you playwith and what other baskets can
you find, or what otherplaygrounds can you find and
(21:20):
where is your?
You know what is our niche andwhat is our specialty and what
is our gift to the world and howis a company?
Can we go serve the people thatneed us and not just rely or
compete on one place like Amazon, right?
Mike Caldwell (21:35):
Okay, yeah, I think that's such a huge lesson
as entrepreneurs Before I gotinto marketing, as to the degree
I am now.
Google came up with some newrules and the big Google slap
it's called right.
So, everybody was just makingmoney, hand over a fist with
Google.
Then they just Google slappedand they shut everybody down and
(21:57):
so that flow of cash was juststopped.
And then a lot of them movesaid oh well, we've got Facebook
, we'll just move over toFacebook.
And so they just did.
They just moved everything toFacebook.
And then a couple of yearslater, facebook came out with
all these restrictions and I hadone client we just lost our
account and we weren't breakingany rules, right, facebook
doesn't care.
Like.
(22:17):
We tried to ask them, they'relike well, let's just start
another.
Like we can't reactivate youraccount, but if you want to
start a new one, you could dothat.
I was like I'll happily do that, but I'm going to keep doing
what I was doing.
And you said I couldn't do that.
Just please tell me what I wasdoing wrong.
And they won't tell you Right,so you got to be diverse and you
(22:38):
get it.
Michelle Vandepas (22:38):
You know there's a, there's a thing hang
up and call again.
You'll get a different person.
Amazon's like that Facebook.
You don't get people, but it'syou just keep trying, keep
trying and keep trying.
Hang up, reach out, reach out,reach out.
Eventually maybe you'll getsomeone who knows the answer,
but maybe never.
I had 700 reviews of mine takendown from Amazon because
(23:00):
someone complained that I was inthe industry, and so 700
reviews were pulled.
Nothing I could do about it,because enough time had passed
and I don't tear up when I talkabout it anymore.
That was a hard thing and therewas not a thing I could do
about it.
Sorry, I mean you're in theindustry, you can't leave
(23:22):
reviews.
I actually wrote them allbefore I was in the industry,
but I mean I was always kind ofin the industry, but before I
had my own publishing company.
Mike Caldwell (23:32):
Right, holy smokes.
But that's also anothervaluable lesson is just to never
quit and keep trying Like say,hang up and call again.
Yeah, hang up and call again.
Michelle Vandepas (23:43):
Try again.
Yeah, yeah, you never know.
Mike Caldwell (23:48):
We live off the grid here and I Nice.
So we started that 20 years agoand so my biggest story for
that is when we wanted to put weneeded a deep well.
So we had a deep well, weneeded a pump and the inverters
that you used to convert thedirect current from your battery
to alternating current.
They were smaller 20 years agoand the amount of power that a
(24:09):
well pump uses when it turns on,you know when your fridge turns
on and the lights go dim.
Michelle Vandepas (24:14):
I'm on a well .
Mike Caldwell (24:15):
Okay, so you know , like it's an energy hammer,
it's called right.
Michelle Vandepas (24:18):
Yeah.
Mike Caldwell (24:19):
And so that's a big spike.
So my inverter could handle thewell pump running, but it
couldn't handle the well pumpstarting.
All right.
So I went to the well pumpstore.
I'm like, yeah, I got thisproblem.
Like what can I do?
Nothing Like get a biggerinverter, you know.
I'm like, well, that can't beright.
And then somebody said, well,you could use a DC inverter, dc
(24:42):
well pump instead of an AC wellpump, but that doesn't pump as
much water as your shower headwill use, so you can have like a
five minute shower once yourpressure tank's done.
Then you're out of water, soyou can do that Anyway.
But I just I'm like that can'tbe the answer.
There's got to be a solution.
And I just kept going to placeafter place after place and then
finally I went to one place andhe's like, well, why don't you
(25:03):
just use a soft start well pump?
Like I'm an idiot.
He's like, why don't you justuse that?
I'm like, what is a soft startwell pump?
He's like, well, most, mostmotors, they go from zero to a
hundred like in a split second,and a soft start just slowly
ramps up so you don't get thatenergy hammer.
So why don't?
I don't understand, why don'tyou just use that?
(25:24):
I've spoken to a dozen peopleand you're the first person to
tell me this machine exists,right, and yeah, and it was so
obvious to him.
So obvious, so easy, such asimple solution.
Michelle Vandepas (25:38):
And there's a couple of things.
Number one that's what makesyou an entrepreneur is you're
just going to keep hammeringaway at it to find the answer
right.
Yep, and a lot of tenacitycomes with being an entrepreneur
, and there's a lot of just youknow, hang out and call again.
You just got to keep with it,and not every entrepreneur has
(25:59):
that, but it is one of thethings that can make you a
little bit more successful.
Oh, you got to have it and yes,yes, we.
Mike Caldwell (26:08):
Yeah, I do cry sometimes, but you have to tear
it out Off the grid is not easyeither.
Michelle Vandepas (26:17):
I'm not off the grid but I'm on a well and
you know our electric goes downquite a few times every year and
we have generator and somebackup stuff, as you know, a big
greenhouse growing dome.
Mike Caldwell (26:29):
So that's right, yeah, yeah.
So how do you incorporateempathy into your marketing
strategies, and can you share anexample of where that made a
significant impact?
Michelle Vandepas (26:41):
Yeah.
So I think the big thing that Iwould call empathy is having
empathy for yourself as themarketer, as the business owner,
as the salesperson, that youdon't have to be everything to
everybody, you don't have to dothis certain way.
You don't have to sell, sell,sell.
(27:02):
You don't have to be like thisDackass kind of person excuse me
right that when we have our ownheart and our own empathy for
ourselves, well, it's just goingto be more natural.
So when I work with clients fora job and they're like well, I
know I'm supposed to like go getInstagram, and I'm like why
(27:24):
Talk to me, talk this through.
Maybe you do, maybe it's a goodstrategy, maybe it's not for
you, let's talk it through.
Well, everybody says I have tobe on Instagram and I'm not on
Instagram.
And then you get all thisself-conflict and you're
internal and it's like, oh, Idon't want to do it.
No, I don't.
(27:46):
So I think the empathy startswith us knowing who we are, what
we need, what our bestmarketing strategy is.
You can be on Instagram or not.
There's a million ways tomarket.
It depends on where youraudience hang out.
What do you like to do?
How are you going to be able tosustain it.
All of those We'd start there.
Mike Caldwell (28:09):
Wow, so it sounds like that's a great answer.
I've never, no one's ever spunit that way before, so that was,
that was a great insight.
Thanks for sharing that, and itsounds like every market is
different, but do you have afavorite platform, or is it
always?
Michelle Vandepas (28:24):
No, I do, and I'm on Facebook and I have a
love hate relationship withFacebook.
I'm also on Instagram and sortof on TikTok and sort of on
LinkedIn and sort of on threadsand sort of everywhere, but
mostly because I've been onFacebook for so long I know I
know it inside.
(28:44):
Now I don't have to think aboutit, I just get on and post
something.
But I try to follow my ownadvice and I know that some of
my audience hangs out onInstagram, so I try to do
Instagram.
Mike Caldwell (29:02):
Okay, what do you think the future of books is?
Do you think you?
I don't know.
Michelle Vandepas (29:08):
I ask everybody else.
I want to ask you what do youthink the future of books is?
I've been studying this for along time.
You know fiction is growing.
People love fiction.
It's a category that's growingleaps and bounds.
I don't think AI books.
I think there's place for AI,but you know, ai books are
(29:31):
flooding the market right nowand Amazon and Google Books and
everybody is like giving so manycomplaints and we get our books
ripped off and we have tofollow copyright violations with
Amazon and Google andeverything all the time.
That will settle out.
But the real future of books,you know, I don't know if we can
(29:54):
go into a holodeck.
Mike Caldwell (30:00):
Yes.
Michelle Vandepas (30:01):
Right, you know, if you want to read about,
I don't know, world War II,which I don't, but that's what
popped into my head Do you wantto go into a holodeck?
And maybe that was a really badexample.
Mike Caldwell (30:16):
That's a really bad example.
Michelle Vandepas (30:18):
You want to experience Rome and the Trevi
Fountain?
Are you going?
Mike Caldwell (30:22):
to pick up a book about it?
Michelle Vandepas (30:23):
Are you going to go there?
Are you going to go into aholodeck?
You know, I mean I still lovereading, Lots of people still
love reading, but I wish I knewthe real answer and everybody
who talked to gives me adifferent one.
I mean, I've talked to bigpublishers and editors at the
big five companies and they'relike books will never go away,
(30:44):
Maybe not.
Paramount sold Simon andSchuster recently, like this
last week, I think.
Mike Caldwell (30:52):
Okay, everything's just changing, it
seems fast, because hastelevision gone away like cable
TV?
Yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (31:03):
Forget it.
Like my dad watches cable TVsometimes and I was visiting and
I'm like what, what's thecommercial?
Like what?
Why are you watching this?
Yeah, I remember.
So it was only been six months.
We really had chat to BT andit's only been four words really
(31:25):
been the newest version right,Like April or something that's
right.
Mike Caldwell (31:30):
Yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (31:31):
Look how quickly that has changed
everything.
Mike Caldwell (31:34):
That's right.
That's right, yeah, because Ithink even me, I like I watch a
lot of Netflix and I thinkNetflix is becoming old school
now I think that might be likephasing out more people are just
doing YouTube and differentthings like that.
Michelle Vandepas (31:47):
Oh, I have two teenagers in my house still
and they're on Reddit andYouTube.
Yeah, okay.
Mike Caldwell (31:53):
Yeah, yeah, and it's funny with me and books.
I love going on vacation andI'll bring like three books and
I will go through all threebooks, like I just I'm a
voracious reader but for somereason when I'm at home I rare
like I'll read marketing booksand stuff, but I don't really
read for pleasure as much, whichis but was that your kind of
(32:15):
jacket to go?
No, no, I don't know.
This is like an internalquestion I've always had for
myself.
Like I love going on vacationand reading, why don't I just
read at home?
Yeah, because I think readingis more of a commitment and I
don't want to tell myself I'mcommitting to not doing any work
(32:37):
, where I can just flick on theTV for just a minute and take a
break, and you know, a minuteturns into two hours.
Michelle Vandepas (32:44):
But I commit to that two hours in the front.
What's that?
20 years ago, reading wasn't acommitment.
Reading was just something youdid.
Mike Caldwell (32:52):
That's right, yeah, yeah.
So I'm just kind of curious asto where books are going to,
where books are going to end up.
Michelle Vandepas (33:00):
Yeah, I don't know.
I wish on you.
I mean, for now they're here.
Mike Caldwell (33:04):
Yes, yes, all right, let's see.
What else can I ask you here?
Can you share one actionablemarketing strategy or tip that
our listeners can implementtoday to start seeing like
results today?
Michelle Vandepas (33:23):
All right, you know, the thing that works
for me is to be real personal,and you've been around a while,
so this is called a Dean Jacksonemail for anyone who's been
around a while in these circles.
But you put something in thesubject line that says, hey, are
(33:45):
you still interested inmarketing?
Or I might say, are you stilltrying to write your book?
And I'll write an email that'slike two or three sentences and
I'll send it to my whole listand I'll get a hundred responses
.
Hey, how did you know?
I've been thinking about you.
Wow, it's so nice of you toreach out, michelle, right, and
(34:08):
I've sent it to thousands ofpeople, but it sounds so
personal.
Mike Caldwell (34:11):
Okay.
Michelle Vandepas (34:12):
And that's how I want it to be.
I want it to be personal, Iwant it to be like they feel
like I've reached out to them,and then I will answer each one
individually, say I am thinkingabout you, I'm always thinking
about all my clients.
Is it time to talk again?
Tell me what's going on, right,and that usually results in
conversation, which will resultin some sales.
(34:36):
But it's back to being personal.
Connect with people.
Sure, to be cheap, chat canwrite your newsletter, but you
don't need it to reach out topeople.
Mike Caldwell (34:49):
So what if you don't have a list?
What can you do?
Michelle Vandepas (34:53):
Do the same thing on social for people that
don't have.
I work with a lot of people whoare over 50, right, and a lot
of those people don't evenreally want to do social or
don't have social even youngerpeople too.
I mean now everybody's kind ofburned out on it, I think, or a
lot of people are getting burnedout on it.
You know, you can go to alibrary and do a free course.
(35:17):
You can go to a coffee shop andput up a flyer and say, hey,
I'm doing a 20-minutepresentation about marketing or
weight loss, come listen to me.
You can ask your friend to holdan old-fashioned Tupperware
party.
I mean really, it's connectwith people, right.
Open a farm stand and put yourlemonade, sign up and while
(35:43):
you're there, talk about how youcan also help other people
market their lemonade.
Mike Caldwell (35:48):
Wow, yeah.
So actually I think COVID madethis worse.
But we don't want to have,we're afraid to have that actual
, real human connection now.
Michelle Vandepas (36:02):
Yeah, COVID made it worse.
We want to have this screen toseparate us and the phone.
So you know, I found itinteresting.
You and I were having a hardtime connecting today and your
phone number was there.
You know, if you have problems,here's my phone number and I
texted you.
I'm like why don't I just pickup the phone and call, like, oh,
(36:23):
what happened?
What happened to the?
It's?
Like it's almost rude now forsome generations, right, why are
you calling me?
Right?
Why don't you just text?
So I'm never sure anymorewhether you're supposed to text
or call or zoom or send atelepathic message or email.
And COVID made all of thatworse.
(36:44):
Like some people are like,don't talk to me.
There's generational pieces tothat.
There's technology pieces tothat.
Yeah.
Mike Caldwell (36:55):
So I live in rural Canada.
I'm in Quebec, which is theFrench province, but I live in
an Irish community.
I was Irish settled and all ofmy it's really cool One of my
neighbors.
The reason he has his propertyis because the queen deeded it
to him.
So the queen said if you clearthis land and farm it, I'll give
(37:15):
it to you.
Like that's how most of thefamilies up here.
They're still here, right?
Wow?
And because of the generationalthing like it's gone three
generations but now the fourthgeneration doesn't want to farm
anymore and plus, farmingdoesn't really work like that
anymore, like it's all bigcattle operations, right?
Michelle Vandepas (37:37):
It's really hard to the oh my gosh.
Mike Caldwell (37:39):
Like I talked to my neighbors and they they
talked about how much a steakcosts in the store now.
But they're like we're stillgetting the same price for our
beef that we were getting 20years ago.
Like we're not selling our cowsanymore.
But you know the price of ahamburger, the price of steak
has got up 10 fold, anyway.
So most of my neighbors are intheir 70s and 80s and we don't
(38:02):
talk on the phone.
If we need something, we go, wedrive.
We have to drive because, likemy neighbors are, all we're a
mile away from each other.
But if I need help from myneighbor, I drive to his house
and I knock on his door and Isit there and I have a coffee or
a beer with him for 20, 30, 40minutes before I can tell him
why I'm there.
Like that's, that's how we work, like it's pretty cool we're,
(38:25):
we're way old school, yeah,cause, yeah, the phone is just
way too modern and we don't liketo use it.
My one neighbor asked me thisis like going back five or six
years if I'm on that internet.
Michelle Vandepas (38:36):
Yeah, and and here's the thing when your well
goes down and your internetgoes down and you're don't have
power because the truth istaking down your power lines,
you guys are all going to stillfunction.
Mike Caldwell (38:52):
Yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (38:53):
You're going to figure out how to make it and
how to help each other and cometogether in community.
And I'm in the similarcommunity.
I'm not off group quite likethat, but I am in the mountains
and we all know trees come downand it's my neighbor out there
with a chainsaw player in thetree.
It's not any anybody from anystate or government place, right
(39:13):
, and I think there's someresilience there that we have
lost that comes from connectingwith our community that we all
need.
That in some instances, covidmade it stronger for some people
and and disconnected it forsome people, right, right, and I
(39:36):
do think we have to.
I love the internet.
I make my living off Facebookmore or less, right, so I
connect with my people, and Ialso understand that we have to
come in community because wedon't know what's coming
tomorrow, and that's the waywe're all going to be able to
continue and have resilientlives.
Mike Caldwell (39:59):
Yeah, because it's just funny, because where I
live now I know all of myneighbors in a five mile radius
and not consider them friends ina five mile radius, but, like
in in in university I lived inan apartment building.
I didn't know who my neighboracross the hall was.
Right, no idea, no, their nameand what do you prefer?
It's much better having thathuman connection.
(40:21):
Like I say, we don't, we don'ttake advantage of one another.
But like I say, I know, likethis is a terrible, horrible,
horrible story.
But I had an old dog, 18 yearold dog, and I was.
I went into the woods and Icame out and my dog was on the
ground, he had had a stroke andwe live in the middle of nowhere
and a vets so far away.
(40:41):
And so you know, I went to myneighbor and I'm like my dog had
a stroke.
He's not dead.
Can you help me?
Right, and that's a prettysignificant thing to ask
somebody to help you with.
And he's like.
You know, I got him like hereyou go, you go away.
When you come back we'll have alittle bit of take care.
Yeah, and I say that's the typeof support that we can provide
each other in this situation.
(41:02):
So is there any way that we canstart to foster that support
with, with strangers who aren'tfamiliar with that degree of
connection?
Michelle Vandepas (41:14):
Oh, you know I'm not an expert in this.
Ask me something about bookmarketing In terms of, you know,
when you build your businessthough, I'll bring it, I'll kind
of bring it back around.
I think having that humanconnection is really what we're
(41:35):
talking about.
If you can Not be scared topick up the phone or text or
email, or walk down to the localpost office and Actually talk
to the person across the countera little bit, you're going to
do better in business and inlife, and I think that's really
the message that and that's notalways easy and in this Um level
(42:02):
of anxiety on the planet, isnot always easy, so that's right
.
So, if you want to helpyourself and grow a little bit
and understand reality, humanconnection.
Mike Caldwell (42:14):
Perfect.
Let's end on that.
If any of my listeners Good how?
How do my listeners reach outto you for your support?
What can you do for them?
Michelle Vandepas (42:24):
Yeah, michelle coachescom is my
website.
Michelle coachescom, michellewith 2 else.
Mike Caldwell (42:36):
So who can you help the most right now?
Michelle Vandepas (42:40):
Um, somebody who has a book inside of them
and knows it's part of theirmessage and they want to get
their message out into the world.
Whatever that is Weight loss,holistic health it's usually
nonfiction, right, traumarelated anything and they want
to use their book and more toget their message out.
(43:01):
That's what I do.
Big umbrella, how does yourbook fit?
And be a Ted talk, maybe apodcast, maybe getting on
podcasts Right, let's figure outhow to get your message out and
where does the book fit in that?
Mike Caldwell (43:14):
Perfect, and I'll put all your links in the show
notes so people can find it niceand easy and reach out to you.
Michelle Vandepas (43:21):
All right, this is a blast.
I can't wait to share it.
Mike Caldwell (43:24):
All right, thanks , michelle.
I'm so happy you're on the show, yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (43:28):
I'm glad we connected.
Have fun up there in Canada.
I want to come visit.
Sounds great.
Mike Caldwell (43:33):
This year's been bad for mosquitoes, but that's
why I miss about the mountainsof Colorado, the lack of
mosquitoes, but we have lesscougars here, so Right, so there
is that All right?
Thanks, michelle, thanks, bye,bye, and that is a wrap for this
(43:54):
episode of because business ispersonal.
Thanks for joining us and don'tforget to take advantage of my
two special offers.
First, you can get a free copyof my bestselling book, empathic
Marketing.
You just pay for the shipping.
Or you can have 50% discount onmy gap analysis session with
the coupon code podcast.
Just head over towwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
(44:20):
or check the show notes fordetails.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please don't forget to
follow, subscribe, leave areview and share the podcast
with others who might benefit.
Your support means the world tous, so stay tuned for our next
episode, where we'll continue todelve into the intersection of
empathy and marketing strategy.
(44:41):
Remember, because business isindeed personal, every
connection counts.
Until next time.
See you then.
Hey, welcome to the Because Business is Personal
podcast, the podcast whereempathy meets marketing strategy
.
I'm your host, mike Caldwell,but I'm also known as the
marketing medic.
Now, the reason for that isbecause, before becoming a
marketing strategist, I actuallyworked as a paramedic for 12
years, and it was during thattime that I realized how
(00:20):
important it was to trulyunderstand the problems your
patient was facing before youstarted providing treatment.
And it's the same understanding, the same empathy, is just as
crucial when it comes tounderstanding our prospects and
making sales, and that's why, ineach episode, we'll dissect the
art of empathic marketing,exploring how top professionals
(00:44):
infuse empathy into theirstrategies to build stronger
relationships, boost their salesand make a lasting impact.
So buckle up and prepare toturn up the dial on your
marketing effectiveness.
As we gear up to dive deeperinto the realm of empathic
marketing, I'd like to share acouple of special offers with
you.
First, you can get a free copyof my international bestselling
(01:07):
book Empathic Marketing.
You only need to cover the costof shipping.
Reading this will provide youwith a much more in-depth
understanding of theempathy-based marketing approach
that we explore in this show.
Next, I'm offering a 50%discount on a transformative
30-minute gap analysis sessionwith me.
Reading this session willidentify the hurdles in your
(01:30):
marketing efforts and togetherwill develop an actionable
roadmap aimed at winning youmore clients and making you more
sales.
Just visit my website,wwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
to grab your book or use couponcode podcast to take advantage
of my gap analysis offer.
(01:51):
So why wait?
Let's start turbocharging yourmarketing strategy today.
Now let's get started with ourepisode.
Everyone welcome back to theBecause Business Is Personal
podcast.
Today we have Michelle VanDepass, who is an accomplished
professional who captivates withher empowering message and
(02:11):
unwavering support.
As a seasoned author, speakerand coach, she has a wealth of
experience and profound insightsinto publishing, online
marketing and living withpurpose.
Michelle lives in the mountainsof Colorado, as I once did,
where she lives with her family,40 goldfish and I'm going to
have to ask some questions aboutthose goldfish and the
(02:33):
occasional mountain lion or bear.
Oh my, michelle is oftenwalking through nature, thinking
of new ways to help her clientslive their most authentically
successful lives and alsogrounding herself in the beauty
of the world around her, whetherat home or through her travel.
So welcome Michelle.
So excited to have fellowColoridian here with me.
Michelle Vandepas (02:58):
Yeah, absolutely, it's a pleasure to
be here.
Thanks for having me.
Mike Caldwell (03:02):
Very cool indeed.
So the book I wrote is calledEmpathic Marketing and my
podcast is called BecauseBusiness Is Personal.
So clearly I like to dip intothe human side of things.
So before we get into allthings business, my first
question is what is somethingnot business related about you
(03:23):
that our listeners may findinteresting or quirky?
And if it involves 40 goldfish,I'd love to hear that answer.
I was going to say it.
Michelle Vandepas (03:30):
so I got a couple of stories.
But 40 goldfish is pretty cool.
So you're from Colorado.
You may know about the growingdomes where you have their big
like translucent greenhousesthat will go through the
mountains and you can put a bigfish tank in there.
The idea is that you can growtilapia or something right and
(03:53):
then you use that water togarden.
But I put 99-cent goldfish inthere and I've had some of them
for a decade now and they'relike this big and I got a big
like propagating baby.
So I've got like six littlebabies like this from this year
(04:15):
and then I have like hugegoldfish.
They act like coy and they swimaround.
They're super cool and I go upthere when I need a moment of
zen.
Mike Caldwell (04:25):
Wow.
And so I had like one goldfishgrowing up in my little goldfish
bowl and I had to change thewater all the time and that was
a pretty involved process justchanging the like.
We had to take the goldfish outof the one jar and put it in
another one.
How do you?
How do you do that with?
Michelle Vandepas (04:41):
I don't, I don't, I just don't.
So probably should Send me hatemail, please, nobody.
But what I do do, what we do do, is we have an aerator in there
and we got a fountain thatcirculates the water and I think
that helps, and then I put somelive plants in there once in a
while and I think that helps.
(05:01):
And so the water can get alittle dirty, but eventually it
cleans itself out.
Mike Caldwell (05:06):
Oh cool, it's more of a natural environment.
Michelle Vandepas (05:08):
It's a very yes, that's a good way to put it
.
It's a holistic naturalenvironment.
Mike Caldwell (05:13):
Okay, but why don't you hit me with another
non-business interestingMichelle fun fact?
Michelle Vandepas (05:21):
So I took my daughter to be an extra in a
movie one time was RobertRedford and Jane Fonda and she
didn't get to be cast.
But I did, oh, no and yeah.
So I asked her is it okay if Igo?
She's like yes, she was like Idon't know, maybe 14 or
something, at the time inFlorence, colorado.
(05:42):
Do you remember Florence fromyour days here, tiny little town
South of Colorado.
Mike Caldwell (05:47):
Springs Right?
Yes, I didn't get.
I spent most of my time like inthe heart of the Rocky, so I
didn't get too far that way.
Michelle Vandepas (05:54):
Tiny little town and they filmed down there
and I went down for like threedays of filming and it was super
fun and I'd never been on thefilm set before and there was a
waitress or cafe owner and allof this and we told the
celebrities in the movie not asa caterer.
(06:15):
And then the movie came out, mywhole family gathers around
their word glued to it, right,and you see me changing that.
The opening scene is I'mchanging from the cafe sign from
open to closed and we're like,oh, opening scene, that's so
cool.
You can't see my face oranything.
And then we watched the wholemovie and that's it.
(06:37):
I got like this.
It's like that.
I have like a half a second inthe movie.
You can't even see my face, butit was super fun.
Mike Caldwell (06:48):
Well, I was actually in a movie in Colorado
as well, and I was on the screenmuch longer, but you couldn't
see me, and so when I was inColorado, I was a paramedic, I
was a firefighter paramedic, andI also worked on some of the
movies, some of the movies thatwere filmed there, and so I
can't remember the name of themovie, but it was Danny Glover
(07:08):
and Dennis Quaid.
Michelle Vandepas (07:10):
And Danny.
Mike Caldwell (07:10):
Glover was a serial killer and he had this
really cool car where he hadlike all like nudy pictures of
girls, like that, upholstered,his frenzied of scar, and he
used to kill people by slashingtheir femoral arteries, anyway,
and Dennis Quaid was the copthat was chasing after him.
And anyway, the scene that Iwas in, they're on a train just
(07:30):
north of Vale.
They're the hosts.
Let's say yeah, yeah, докум, ifyou got today's movie, yeah,
but they'reinsideestonabsolutely acknowledged this
right now, sorry, ah, inconditions like this.
And they were, they're fightingDanny Glover and Dennis Quaid.
They weren't there when I wasthere there was the stunt
doubles, but they were fightingon the roof of the train and we
kept.
We had to do all these liketest shots and test shots there
there's a whole bunch wascrammed into this caboose and
(07:50):
then when it was actually wewere finally ready to shoot the
scene, like okay, everybody offthe caboose, everybody, you know
Gone.
So I started to leave, likewhere are you going?
I'm, like you said, everybodyoff.
Like no, the director and themedic stays in the caboose.
So everybody else had to getoff and we had like huddled down
so you couldn't see us.
Well, you know the Dennis andRandy.
(08:11):
Dennis and Danny stunt doubleswere fighting on the roof above.
So yeah, I was, I was in themovie for you know a couple of
minutes, but you couldn't see mebecause I was and I did.
I met Danny Glover.
I treated him a fair number oftimes.
He the dry air in Coloradoreally bothered his nose and so
(08:32):
he kept getting nosebleeds.
He got a lot of nosebleeds outthere just from the dry air, but
anyway, that's, you couldn'tsee how's there?
Alright, so let's.
So let me tell.
Tell me a little bit about yourbusiness and what you do.
Michelle Vandepas (08:47):
Well, first and foremost, I'm a book
publisher, but what that reallymeans is I help people get their
Message out, live their purposethrough some usually business
or entrepreneurial venture in abook usually is part of that.
Okay, get your message out andyou have a fabulous book.
(09:08):
Right, empathetic business.
Did I get that Pathic?
marketing marketing, marketingTitle.
I just love it.
Impact, so I'm sure and talkabout that and so you know it's
part of your message, is part ofyour Foundation, it's all kind
of part of your and so I coach alot around.
How do you bring your Message,your purpose, your meaning and
(09:32):
your business together and get,find all the different ways to
find your audience, and the bookis part of that.
Mike Caldwell (09:39):
Okay, yeah, cuz I think a lot of people Published
their book with the plan andthat's gonna be their business,
like their book, right.
But it's really just aglorified credit card, or not?
Credit card business card.
Michelle Vandepas (09:51):
It's a great business card that gives you a
published author, gives you somedecent authority, right totally
, and you know people will buyfrom you because you have a book
, or they will be impressedbecause you have a book, even if
they Never read the book.
Mike Caldwell (10:07):
That's right.
That is so true.
So what motivated you to becomewhat you are today, and have
you had any regrets since makingthat decision?
Michelle Vandepas (10:19):
So, as an entrepreneur, I think all of us
have some sleepless nights onoccasion, right?
Mike Caldwell (10:24):
Yes.
Michelle Vandepas (10:25):
I don't have regrets.
I don't think I had anotherchoice.
Really I've been doing this Notthe book, these but I started
in marketing, like in the 90s.
I had a couple of smallbusinesses and I was helping
other people market theirbusinesses.
And when you're helping otherpeople market so much of that is
(10:47):
coaching, right you have tolike ask questions and listen
and find out how they want tomarket when you know I mean, I'm
going back a ways here like getthe internet, we're talking
about putting flyers up atgrocery stores, right and you're
figuring out how to get theword out about your business.
And that just sort of naturallymorphed into what I do now,
(11:11):
which is coaching and consultingand helping people grow their
businesses Through what I wouldcall a holistic approach and
aligned approach and using booksand Podcasts and all those
other ones to help get yourmessage out.
Mike Caldwell (11:27):
Okay, and you kind of touched on it with, like
the, with the flyers anddifferent things.
But since you have been doingthis for so long and you know
sort of not yeah, I guess Ithink I got my first email
address and maybe like 1999 orsomething, so the internet
wasn't really that big, you know.
So how, how has what you dochanged?
(11:50):
What are the sort of compareand contrast, like the pros and
cons from them?
Because everybody Everything's,it's so hard now, but, like,
how does it compare and contrastto the earlier days?
Michelle Vandepas (12:00):
Yeah, you know, what's interesting is on
the outside, everything'schanged, but internally, nothing
is.
You're still doing businesswith people.
You still have to makeconnections.
You still have to look atpeople in the eye.
I mean, yeah, you can like setup your shopping cart and hope
people like click and buy, butthere has to be people
(12:20):
underneath.
That AI is not going to takeover the world.
That's my personal view,because we still need that in
our archery, still need humanconnection, and so none of that
has changed.
I talk all the time about thinkhow your great grandparents did
business.
Think about going to some ruralcommunity and you go to a farm
(12:41):
stand.
That's really at the root ofall of it, and so none of that
has really changed.
If you're struggling in yourbusiness, it's probably a lead
thing, my gas and it could beall kinds of things, but it
might be you don't have enoughleads, you don't have enough
clients, and the way to fix thatis go talk to more people.
Okay, right, which is what youand I are doing right now,
(13:05):
exactly and Expanding our reach,our network.
Hopefully, we're having somefun doing it.
Yeah, so that is changed.
Yeah, the internet is changed.
It's really busy out there, butthere's more people to sell to.
So you still have to find your,your sweet spot, your niche.
Mike Caldwell (13:23):
Okay, it's.
I see you did a Ted talk.
I want to ask you about that ina second.
But I am applying to get my ownTed talk now, like you say, to
reach out, get that exposure.
And you know my?
Of course you don't know.
I just I'll tell you my Tedtalk is entitled AI may be the
future, but human connectionwill always be the present.
Michelle Vandepas (13:44):
I, so I heard a podcast yesterday with the
guy who started Khan Academy.
Mike Caldwell (13:56):
Okay, what is that?
Michelle Vandepas (14:00):
KHA and Academy.
It's like the biggest schoolYouTube.
Like, if you want to learnabout a math equation, you go to
Khan Academy and they'll justteach you for free.
Okay, cool.
All right, but he's talkingabout future of AI and business
and it's like he's building thisthing out.
That's like Star Trek, theholly-holly bones, where they
(14:24):
Halledeck yes.
Well, that actually sounds superfun, right to go on the house.
So there's pieces of AI I thinkI'm looking forward to I'm not
quite there yet, but but it'snever gonna replace these kinds
of conversations.
Mike Caldwell (14:38):
No, and I'm actually using chat GBT more and
more every day, and it's justmy research assistant now, and
so I still make those humanconnections one-on-one because
those are necessary.
But before, when I wanted tolearn about my audience, I'd
have to go into all thedifferent Facebook groups and
read the comments and askquestions, wait for responses,
go to Amazon, look at mycompetitors, books, see what the
(15:00):
comments are to get an idea ofwho my audience is.
And now chat.
Michelle Vandepas (15:06):
Chatted me.
What's that I'm a GPT chattedme, did I?
I put my name in GPT chat tofind out, to prepare.
That's what I'm asking, right.
Mike Caldwell (15:19):
Oh no, I did not do that.
I did not do that because chatGPT is only yeah, so it only
goes back.
Michelle Vandepas (15:30):
it's two years before now and prior to
that, so it doesn't have a lotof new stuff.
Mike Caldwell (15:34):
So if I wanted, to talk to you now.
It wouldn't know the last twoyears about you.
That's the most important stuff,right, but for my customer
avatar it can do a lot of theresearch a lot faster than I
could before, and so I do a lotof the stuff I teach is from
Eugene Swartz BreakthroughAdvertising, which is a really
famous marketing book, and chathas read that.
(15:55):
So I can ask you, based onEugene Swartz Breakthrough
Advertising Problem AwarenessScale, where is my audience in X
, y and Z?
And it'll give me that answerbased on how I asked it, and so
now when I talk to my avatar, Ican speak to them at the level
that they're at, and so it'svery helpful for those reasons.
Michelle Vandepas (16:16):
Well, I can't wait to watch your TED Talk
coming.
Mike Caldwell (16:20):
Yes, yes, all right, let's see what my next
question is.
So can you share an interestingstory about a major challenge
you faced in your business andwhat did you do to overcome that
?
Michelle Vandepas (16:39):
There's been so many.
So you know, in the middle ofCOVID we lost books on the docs
and in the tankers and in Chinaand all that stuff, right, oh no
, publishers had supply chainissues and books lost.
I don't know if I'm allowed toreally say who, but there's one
(17:09):
big distributor of books thateverybody knows.
It's a pain in the freakingbutt.
Oh no okay and as a bookpublisher, you know, when you
have just really one or twoplaces where most people buy
their books and you have to beon their platforms, it's really
difficult as an entrepreneur tolike have all your eggs in one
(17:31):
basket right.
I don't like that, and so I'malways looking for other ways to
get books out and other ways todistribute.
What are other ways that youcan connect with your audience
and where else can we sell it?
Because otherwise we're justrelying on, like Amazon or
Amazon Mobile or whatever theequivalent is in Canada.
Mike Caldwell (17:52):
Same to yeah, yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (17:53):
W H Smith in the UK.
Right, and we.
As an entrepreneur, you can'tput your eggs in one basket, so
that's one of the things thatkeeps me up at night still.
Mike Caldwell (18:03):
Right.
Michelle Vandepas (18:03):
I'm learning about that.
And then, of course, always, Ithink, for every entrepreneur
how do you get enough leads?
How do you get the right leads?
How do you get the right leadsfaster?
Mike Caldwell (18:13):
Right.
Michelle Vandepas (18:14):
And I don't even like to call them leads,
and I think this speaks to yourlanguage.
How do you find your clientsand your future customers to
need what you have Right, and sothe background is lead, but
that sounds so cold and harsh,and really what I'm looking for
are the people that need what Ihave, and we're a good match.
Mike Caldwell (18:38):
Okay, I have a real estate coach client, so
he's a realtor coach.
He teaches other realtors howto be better realtors and
realtors are all about theirdatabase.
Right, how big is your database?
And like you, he hates thatterm.
He's like no, you don't need adatabase.
You need between 50 and 100ultimate humans in your life.
(19:01):
So, he likes to call hisdatabase ultimate humans and he
treats them like ultimate humans.
He doesn't treat them like dataright, and that's a huge
difference when you look at thatway.
Yeah, yeah.
So what did you do when yourbooks disappeared off the docks?
Like, how'd you overcome that?
Michelle Vandepas (19:21):
Oh yeah, I'll cry a lot.
Mike Caldwell (19:23):
Just crying works .
Yes, crying is very helpful.
Michelle Vandepas (19:26):
Our clients were like yelling at us and
there's nothing we could do,like everybody was just so
burned out during COVID.
You know, it's like it's hardto remember.
It wasn't that long ago, 2021,books just were not getting
shipped from various places andthe end of 2020, things were
just stuck.
If you guys remember, we sawpictures of tanker ships that
(19:49):
stuck in canals.
Right, that's right.
A lot of those were full ofbooks Okay.
And supply chain issues.
We all thought it would betoilet paper.
Well, it was books, amongstother things, and so you know.
You have an author who is soexcited for a book launch and
then their books don't arriveand there's nothing we can do.
(20:09):
We're like it's out there inthe middle of the ocean
somewhere.
That was hard.
The only thing you can do istell the truth and try to work
through it together.
There's really nothing else youcan do.
Mike Caldwell (20:21):
So, as a book publisher, it sounds like you're
in a David and Goliathsituation.
So like how do you competeagainst Amazon?
How does that even work?
Michelle Vandepas (20:33):
Right?
Well, you can't.
You have to put your eggs intheir basket.
Mike Caldwell (20:37):
Okay.
Michelle Vandepas (20:37):
And then sell through Amazon.
You can't compete with them, sowe publish through Amazon as
well as through other places,right, okay, and they take their
cut.
That's true of the bookstore,too.
They take their cut, anddistributors take their cut, and
printers take their cut, andthen if someone returns a book,
everybody loses that whole cut,right?
(20:58):
And so it's not a question ofcompeting and I think this is
probably true with mostbusinesses.
It's finding out who you haveto play with, like, in our case,
amazon.
And then who else can you playwith and what other baskets can
you find, or what otherplaygrounds can you find and
(21:20):
where is your?
You know what is our niche andwhat is our specialty and what
is our gift to the world and howis a company?
Can we go serve the people thatneed us and not just rely or
compete on one place like Amazon, right?
Mike Caldwell (21:35):
Okay, yeah, I think that's such a huge lesson
as entrepreneurs Before I gotinto marketing, as to the degree
I am now.
Google came up with some newrules and the big Google slap
it's called right.
So, everybody was just makingmoney, hand over a fist with
Google.
Then they just Google slappedand they shut everybody down and
(21:57):
so that flow of cash was juststopped.
And then a lot of them movesaid oh well, we've got Facebook
, we'll just move over toFacebook.
And so they just did.
They just moved everything toFacebook.
And then a couple of yearslater, facebook came out with
all these restrictions and I hadone client we just lost our
account and we weren't breakingany rules, right, facebook
doesn't care.
Like.
(22:17):
We tried to ask them, they'relike well, let's just start
another.
Like we can't reactivate youraccount, but if you want to
start a new one, you could dothat.
I was like I'll happily do that, but I'm going to keep doing
what I was doing.
And you said I couldn't do that.
Just please tell me what I wasdoing wrong.
And they won't tell you Right,so you got to be diverse and you
(22:38):
get it.
Michelle Vandepas (22:38):
You know there's a, there's a thing hang
up and call again.
You'll get a different person.
Amazon's like that Facebook.
You don't get people, but it'syou just keep trying, keep
trying and keep trying.
Hang up, reach out, reach out,reach out.
Eventually maybe you'll getsomeone who knows the answer,
but maybe never.
I had 700 reviews of mine takendown from Amazon because
(23:00):
someone complained that I was inthe industry, and so 700
reviews were pulled.
Nothing I could do about it,because enough time had passed
and I don't tear up when I talkabout it anymore.
That was a hard thing and therewas not a thing I could do
about it.
Sorry, I mean you're in theindustry, you can't leave
(23:22):
reviews.
I actually wrote them allbefore I was in the industry,
but I mean I was always kind ofin the industry, but before I
had my own publishing company.
Mike Caldwell (23:32):
Right, holy smokes.
But that's also anothervaluable lesson is just to never
quit and keep trying Like say,hang up and call again.
Yeah, hang up and call again.
Michelle Vandepas (23:43):
Try again.
Yeah, yeah, you never know.
Mike Caldwell (23:48):
We live off the grid here and I Nice.
So we started that 20 years agoand so my biggest story for
that is when we wanted to put weneeded a deep well.
So we had a deep well, weneeded a pump and the inverters
that you used to convert thedirect current from your battery
to alternating current.
They were smaller 20 years agoand the amount of power that a
(24:09):
well pump uses when it turns on,you know when your fridge turns
on and the lights go dim.
Michelle Vandepas (24:14):
I'm on a well .
Mike Caldwell (24:15):
Okay, so you know , like it's an energy hammer,
it's called right.
Michelle Vandepas (24:18):
Yeah.
Mike Caldwell (24:19):
And so that's a big spike.
So my inverter could handle thewell pump running, but it
couldn't handle the well pumpstarting.
All right.
So I went to the well pumpstore.
I'm like, yeah, I got thisproblem.
Like what can I do?
Nothing Like get a biggerinverter, you know.
I'm like, well, that can't beright.
And then somebody said, well,you could use a DC inverter, dc
(24:42):
well pump instead of an AC wellpump, but that doesn't pump as
much water as your shower headwill use, so you can have like a
five minute shower once yourpressure tank's done.
Then you're out of water, soyou can do that Anyway.
But I just I'm like that can'tbe the answer.
There's got to be a solution.
And I just kept going to placeafter place after place and then
finally I went to one place andhe's like, well, why don't you
(25:03):
just use a soft start well pump?
Like I'm an idiot.
He's like, why don't you justuse that?
I'm like, what is a soft startwell pump?
He's like, well, most, mostmotors, they go from zero to a
hundred like in a split second,and a soft start just slowly
ramps up so you don't get thatenergy hammer.
So why don't?
I don't understand, why don'tyou just use that?
(25:24):
I've spoken to a dozen peopleand you're the first person to
tell me this machine exists,right, and yeah, and it was so
obvious to him.
So obvious, so easy, such asimple solution.
Michelle Vandepas (25:38):
And there's a couple of things.
Number one that's what makesyou an entrepreneur is you're
just going to keep hammeringaway at it to find the answer
right.
Yep, and a lot of tenacitycomes with being an entrepreneur
, and there's a lot of just youknow, hang out and call again.
You just got to keep with it,and not every entrepreneur has
(25:59):
that, but it is one of thethings that can make you a
little bit more successful.
Oh, you got to have it and yes,yes, we.
Mike Caldwell (26:08):
Yeah, I do cry sometimes, but you have to tear
it out Off the grid is not easyeither.
Michelle Vandepas (26:17):
I'm not off the grid but I'm on a well and
you know our electric goes downquite a few times every year and
we have generator and somebackup stuff, as you know, a big
greenhouse growing dome.
Mike Caldwell (26:29):
So that's right, yeah, yeah.
So how do you incorporateempathy into your marketing
strategies, and can you share anexample of where that made a
significant impact?
Michelle Vandepas (26:41):
Yeah.
So I think the big thing that Iwould call empathy is having
empathy for yourself as themarketer, as the business owner,
as the salesperson, that youdon't have to be everything to
everybody, you don't have to dothis certain way.
You don't have to sell, sell,sell.
(27:02):
You don't have to be like thisDackass kind of person excuse me
right that when we have our ownheart and our own empathy for
ourselves, well, it's just goingto be more natural.
So when I work with clients fora job and they're like well, I
know I'm supposed to like go getInstagram, and I'm like why
(27:24):
Talk to me, talk this through.
Maybe you do, maybe it's a goodstrategy, maybe it's not for
you, let's talk it through.
Well, everybody says I have tobe on Instagram and I'm not on
Instagram.
And then you get all thisself-conflict and you're
internal and it's like, oh, Idon't want to do it.
No, I don't.
(27:46):
So I think the empathy startswith us knowing who we are, what
we need, what our bestmarketing strategy is.
You can be on Instagram or not.
There's a million ways tomarket.
It depends on where youraudience hang out.
What do you like to do?
How are you going to be able tosustain it.
All of those We'd start there.
Mike Caldwell (28:09):
Wow, so it sounds like that's a great answer.
I've never, no one's ever spunit that way before, so that was,
that was a great insight.
Thanks for sharing that, and itsounds like every market is
different, but do you have afavorite platform, or is it
always?
Michelle Vandepas (28:24):
No, I do, and I'm on Facebook and I have a
love hate relationship withFacebook.
I'm also on Instagram and sortof on TikTok and sort of on
LinkedIn and sort of on threadsand sort of everywhere, but
mostly because I've been onFacebook for so long I know I
know it inside.
(28:44):
Now I don't have to think aboutit, I just get on and post
something.
But I try to follow my ownadvice and I know that some of
my audience hangs out onInstagram, so I try to do
Instagram.
Mike Caldwell (29:02):
Okay, what do you think the future of books is?
Do you think you?
I don't know.
Michelle Vandepas (29:08):
I ask everybody else.
I want to ask you what do youthink the future of books is?
I've been studying this for along time.
You know fiction is growing.
People love fiction.
It's a category that's growingleaps and bounds.
I don't think AI books.
I think there's place for AI,but you know, ai books are
(29:31):
flooding the market right nowand Amazon and Google Books and
everybody is like giving so manycomplaints and we get our books
ripped off and we have tofollow copyright violations with
Amazon and Google andeverything all the time.
That will settle out.
But the real future of books,you know, I don't know if we can
(29:54):
go into a holodeck.
Mike Caldwell (30:00):
Yes.
Michelle Vandepas (30:01):
Right, you know, if you want to read about,
I don't know, world War II,which I don't, but that's what
popped into my head Do you wantto go into a holodeck?
And maybe that was a really badexample.
Mike Caldwell (30:16):
That's a really bad example.
Michelle Vandepas (30:18):
You want to experience Rome and the Trevi
Fountain?
Are you going?
Mike Caldwell (30:22):
to pick up a book about it?
Michelle Vandepas (30:23):
Are you going to go there?
Are you going to go into aholodeck?
You know, I mean I still lovereading, Lots of people still
love reading, but I wish I knewthe real answer and everybody
who talked to gives me adifferent one.
I mean, I've talked to bigpublishers and editors at the
big five companies and they'relike books will never go away,
(30:44):
Maybe not.
Paramount sold Simon andSchuster recently, like this
last week, I think.
Mike Caldwell (30:52):
Okay, everything's just changing, it
seems fast, because hastelevision gone away like cable
TV?
Yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (31:03):
Forget it.
Like my dad watches cable TVsometimes and I was visiting and
I'm like what, what's thecommercial?
Like what?
Why are you watching this?
Yeah, I remember.
So it was only been six months.
We really had chat to BT andit's only been four words really
(31:25):
been the newest version right,Like April or something that's
right.
Mike Caldwell (31:30):
Yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (31:31):
Look how quickly that has changed
everything.
Mike Caldwell (31:34):
That's right.
That's right, yeah, because Ithink even me, I like I watch a
lot of Netflix and I thinkNetflix is becoming old school
now I think that might be likephasing out more people are just
doing YouTube and differentthings like that.
Michelle Vandepas (31:47):
Oh, I have two teenagers in my house still
and they're on Reddit andYouTube.
Yeah, okay.
Mike Caldwell (31:53):
Yeah, yeah, and it's funny with me and books.
I love going on vacation andI'll bring like three books and
I will go through all threebooks, like I just I'm a
voracious reader but for somereason when I'm at home I rare
like I'll read marketing booksand stuff, but I don't really
read for pleasure as much, whichis but was that your kind of
(32:15):
jacket to go?
No, no, I don't know.
This is like an internalquestion I've always had for
myself.
Like I love going on vacationand reading, why don't I just
read at home?
Yeah, because I think readingis more of a commitment and I
don't want to tell myself I'mcommitting to not doing any work
(32:37):
, where I can just flick on theTV for just a minute and take a
break, and you know, a minuteturns into two hours.
Michelle Vandepas (32:44):
But I commit to that two hours in the front.
What's that?
20 years ago, reading wasn't acommitment.
Reading was just something youdid.
Mike Caldwell (32:52):
That's right, yeah, yeah.
So I'm just kind of curious asto where books are going to,
where books are going to end up.
Michelle Vandepas (33:00):
Yeah, I don't know.
I wish on you.
I mean, for now they're here.
Mike Caldwell (33:04):
Yes, yes, all right, let's see.
What else can I ask you here?
Can you share one actionablemarketing strategy or tip that
our listeners can implementtoday to start seeing like
results today?
Michelle Vandepas (33:23):
All right, you know, the thing that works
for me is to be real personal,and you've been around a while,
so this is called a Dean Jacksonemail for anyone who's been
around a while in these circles.
But you put something in thesubject line that says, hey, are
(33:45):
you still interested inmarketing?
Or I might say, are you stilltrying to write your book?
And I'll write an email that'slike two or three sentences and
I'll send it to my whole listand I'll get a hundred responses
.
Hey, how did you know?
I've been thinking about you.
Wow, it's so nice of you toreach out, michelle, right, and
(34:08):
I've sent it to thousands ofpeople, but it sounds so
personal.
Mike Caldwell (34:11):
Okay.
Michelle Vandepas (34:12):
And that's how I want it to be.
I want it to be personal, Iwant it to be like they feel
like I've reached out to them,and then I will answer each one
individually, say I am thinkingabout you, I'm always thinking
about all my clients.
Is it time to talk again?
Tell me what's going on, right,and that usually results in
conversation, which will resultin some sales.
(34:36):
But it's back to being personal.
Connect with people.
Sure, to be cheap, chat canwrite your newsletter, but you
don't need it to reach out topeople.
Mike Caldwell (34:49):
So what if you don't have a list?
What can you do?
Michelle Vandepas (34:53):
Do the same thing on social for people that
don't have.
I work with a lot of people whoare over 50, right, and a lot
of those people don't evenreally want to do social or
don't have social even youngerpeople too.
I mean now everybody's kind ofburned out on it, I think, or a
lot of people are getting burnedout on it.
You know, you can go to alibrary and do a free course.
(35:17):
You can go to a coffee shop andput up a flyer and say, hey,
I'm doing a 20-minutepresentation about marketing or
weight loss, come listen to me.
You can ask your friend to holdan old-fashioned Tupperware
party.
I mean really, it's connectwith people, right.
Open a farm stand and put yourlemonade, sign up and while
(35:43):
you're there, talk about how youcan also help other people
market their lemonade.
Mike Caldwell (35:48):
Wow, yeah.
So actually I think COVID madethis worse.
But we don't want to have,we're afraid to have that actual
, real human connection now.
Michelle Vandepas (36:02):
Yeah, COVID made it worse.
We want to have this screen toseparate us and the phone.
So you know, I found itinteresting.
You and I were having a hardtime connecting today and your
phone number was there.
You know, if you have problems,here's my phone number and I
texted you.
I'm like why don't I just pickup the phone and call, like, oh,
(36:23):
what happened?
What happened to the?
It's?
Like it's almost rude now forsome generations, right, why are
you calling me?
Right?
Why don't you just text?
So I'm never sure anymorewhether you're supposed to text
or call or zoom or send atelepathic message or email.
And COVID made all of thatworse.
(36:44):
Like some people are like,don't talk to me.
There's generational pieces tothat.
There's technology pieces tothat.
Yeah.
Mike Caldwell (36:55):
So I live in rural Canada.
I'm in Quebec, which is theFrench province, but I live in
an Irish community.
I was Irish settled and all ofmy it's really cool One of my
neighbors.
The reason he has his propertyis because the queen deeded it
to him.
So the queen said if you clearthis land and farm it, I'll give
(37:15):
it to you.
Like that's how most of thefamilies up here.
They're still here, right?
Wow?
And because of the generationalthing like it's gone three
generations but now the fourthgeneration doesn't want to farm
anymore and plus, farmingdoesn't really work like that
anymore, like it's all bigcattle operations, right?
Michelle Vandepas (37:37):
It's really hard to the oh my gosh.
Mike Caldwell (37:39):
Like I talked to my neighbors and they they
talked about how much a steakcosts in the store now.
But they're like we're stillgetting the same price for our
beef that we were getting 20years ago.
Like we're not selling our cowsanymore.
But you know the price of ahamburger, the price of steak
has got up 10 fold, anyway.
So most of my neighbors are intheir 70s and 80s and we don't
(38:02):
talk on the phone.
If we need something, we go, wedrive.
We have to drive because, likemy neighbors are, all we're a
mile away from each other.
But if I need help from myneighbor, I drive to his house
and I knock on his door and Isit there and I have a coffee or
a beer with him for 20, 30, 40minutes before I can tell him
why I'm there.
Like that's, that's how we work, like it's pretty cool we're,
(38:25):
we're way old school, yeah,cause, yeah, the phone is just
way too modern and we don't liketo use it.
My one neighbor asked me thisis like going back five or six
years if I'm on that internet.
Michelle Vandepas (38:36):
Yeah, and and here's the thing when your well
goes down and your internetgoes down and you're don't have
power because the truth istaking down your power lines,
you guys are all going to stillfunction.
Mike Caldwell (38:52):
Yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (38:53):
You're going to figure out how to make it and
how to help each other and cometogether in community.
And I'm in the similarcommunity.
I'm not off group quite likethat, but I am in the mountains
and we all know trees come downand it's my neighbor out there
with a chainsaw player in thetree.
It's not any anybody from anystate or government place, right
(39:13):
, and I think there's someresilience there that we have
lost that comes from connectingwith our community that we all
need.
That in some instances, covidmade it stronger for some people
and and disconnected it forsome people, right, right, and I
(39:36):
do think we have to.
I love the internet.
I make my living off Facebookmore or less, right, so I
connect with my people, and Ialso understand that we have to
come in community because wedon't know what's coming
tomorrow, and that's the waywe're all going to be able to
continue and have resilientlives.
Mike Caldwell (39:59):
Yeah, because it's just funny, because where I
live now I know all of myneighbors in a five mile radius
and not consider them friends ina five mile radius, but, like
in in in university I lived inan apartment building.
I didn't know who my neighboracross the hall was.
Right, no idea, no, their nameand what do you prefer?
It's much better having thathuman connection.
(40:21):
Like I say, we don't, we don'ttake advantage of one another.
But like I say, I know, likethis is a terrible, horrible,
horrible story.
But I had an old dog, 18 yearold dog, and I was.
I went into the woods and Icame out and my dog was on the
ground, he had had a stroke andwe live in the middle of nowhere
and a vets so far away.
(40:41):
And so you know, I went to myneighbor and I'm like my dog had
a stroke.
He's not dead.
Can you help me?
Right, and that's a prettysignificant thing to ask
somebody to help you with.
And he's like.
You know, I got him like hereyou go, you go away.
When you come back we'll have alittle bit of take care.
Yeah, and I say that's the typeof support that we can provide
each other in this situation.
(41:02):
So is there any way that we canstart to foster that support
with, with strangers who aren'tfamiliar with that degree of
connection?
Michelle Vandepas (41:14):
Oh, you know I'm not an expert in this.
Ask me something about bookmarketing In terms of, you know,
when you build your businessthough, I'll bring it, I'll kind
of bring it back around.
I think having that humanconnection is really what we're
(41:35):
talking about.
If you can Not be scared topick up the phone or text or
email, or walk down to the localpost office and Actually talk
to the person across the countera little bit, you're going to
do better in business and inlife, and I think that's really
the message that and that's notalways easy and in this Um level
(42:02):
of anxiety on the planet, isnot always easy, so that's right
.
So, if you want to helpyourself and grow a little bit
and understand reality, humanconnection.
Mike Caldwell (42:14):
Perfect.
Let's end on that.
If any of my listeners Good how?
How do my listeners reach outto you for your support?
What can you do for them?
Michelle Vandepas (42:24):
Yeah, michelle coachescom is my
website.
Michelle coachescom, michellewith 2 else.
Mike Caldwell (42:36):
So who can you help the most right now?
Michelle Vandepas (42:40):
Um, somebody who has a book inside of them
and knows it's part of theirmessage and they want to get
their message out into the world.
Whatever that is Weight loss,holistic health it's usually
nonfiction, right, traumarelated anything and they want
to use their book and more toget their message out.
(43:01):
That's what I do.
Big umbrella, how does yourbook fit?
And be a Ted talk, maybe apodcast, maybe getting on
podcasts Right, let's figure outhow to get your message out and
where does the book fit in that?
Mike Caldwell (43:14):
Perfect, and I'll put all your links in the show
notes so people can find it niceand easy and reach out to you.
Michelle Vandepas (43:21):
All right, this is a blast.
I can't wait to share it.
Mike Caldwell (43:24):
All right, thanks , michelle.
I'm so happy you're on the show, yeah.
Michelle Vandepas (43:28):
I'm glad we connected.
Have fun up there in Canada.
I want to come visit.
Sounds great.
Mike Caldwell (43:33):
This year's been bad for mosquitoes, but that's
why I miss about the mountainsof Colorado, the lack of
mosquitoes, but we have lesscougars here, so Right, so there
is that All right?
Thanks, michelle, thanks, bye,bye, and that is a wrap for this
(43:54):
episode of because business ispersonal.
Thanks for joining us and don'tforget to take advantage of my
two special offers.
First, you can get a free copyof my bestselling book, empathic
Marketing.
You just pay for the shipping.
Or you can have 50% discount onmy gap analysis session with
the coupon code podcast.
Just head over towwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
(44:20):
or check the show notes fordetails.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please don't forget to
follow, subscribe, leave areview and share the podcast
with others who might benefit.
Your support means the world tous, so stay tuned for our next
episode, where we'll continue todelve into the intersection of
empathy and marketing strategy.
(44:41):
Remember, because business isindeed personal, every
connection counts.
Until next time.
See you then.
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