August 10, 2023 • 48 mins
To connect with Bryan and subscribe to his Humanize Newsletter: https://bryankramer.com/
Ready to discover the hidden power of empathic marketing? Join me and business strategist extraordinaire, Brian Kramer, as we navigate the intriguing world of Human to Human connection in business. Known globally for his keynote speeches, executive training, and two best-selling books, Brian guides us through a candid and light-hearted conversation that promises to change how you view marketing.
Are you tired of the rampant distrust in online environments? With Brian's insights, we dissect the malaise of filters and clickbait plaguing social media and discuss how businesses can foster trust through transparent communication and by simply doing the 'next right thing'. We delve into the pitfalls of incorrect assumptions and the role speed plays in trust-building, all while keeping a humorous edge — after all, Brian's wife does call him 'Gaylord Focker' from the iconic Meet the Fockers.
The conversation takes an exciting turn as we contemplate the significance of body language in our tech-driven world, the power in being ordinary and why automation might not be the ultimate answer. Brian shares his thoughts on the role AI plays in today's marketplace and how it's affecting trust. Oh, and did we mention we discuss why Tom Cruise does his own stunts? This conversation is packed with nuggets of wisdom, laughter, and momentous truths. Don't miss out!
Eager to harness the power of Empathic Marketing to propel your business growth? Get your hands on my #1 Amazon Best Selling book, 'Empathic Marketing,' or book a '30-Minute Gap Analysis' session directly from my website: www.becausebusinessispersonal.com.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Mike (00:00):
Hey, welcome to the Because Business is Personal
podcast, the podcast whereempathy meets marketing strategy
.
I'm your host, mike Caldwell,but I'm also known as the
marketing medic.
Now, the reason for that isbecause, before becoming a
marketing strategist, I actuallyworked as a paramedic for 12
years, and it was during thattime that I realized how
(00:20):
important it was to trulyunderstand the problems your
patient was facing before youstarted providing treatment.
And it's the same understanding, the same empathy, is just as
crucial when it comes tounderstanding our prospects and
making sales, and that's why, ineach episode, we'll dissect the
art of empathic marketing,exploring how top professionals
(00:44):
infuse empathy into theirstrategies to build stronger
relationships, boost their salesand make a lasting impact.
So buckle up and prepare toturn up the dial on your
marketing effectiveness.
As we gear up to dive deeperinto the realm of empathic
marketing, I'd like to share acouple of special offers with
you.
First, you can get a free copyof my international bestselling
(01:07):
book Empathic Marketing.
You only need to cover the costof shipping.
Reading this will provide youwith a much more in-depth
understanding of theempathy-based marketing approach
that we explore in this show.
Next, I'm offering a 50%discount on a transformative
30-minute gap analysis sessionwith me.
Reading this session willidentify the hurdles in your
(01:30):
marketing efforts and togetherwill develop an actionable
roadmap aimed at winning youmore clients and making you more
sales.
Just visit my website,wwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
to grab your book or use couponcode podcast to take advantage
of my gap analysis offer.
(01:51):
So why wait?
Let's start turbocharging yourmarketing strategy today.
Now let's get started with ourepisode.
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe Because Business Is Personal
podcast.
We've got a special treat today.
I've just been speaking to him.
He's Brian Kramer.
We've decided that he's abrother from another mother.
(02:12):
He's been called the Zen Masterto Digital Marketers by Forbes.
Brian Kramer is a renownedbusiness strategist, a global
keynote speaker, an executivetrainer and coach investor,
two-time bestselling author,including top 150 USA
bestselling books, and a Forbescontributor.
Brian also created a globalmovement and is known for his
(02:36):
keynotes, his book and talks onand this is the part that really
got me excited aboutinterviewing him there is no B2B
, there is no B2C.
It's human to human, h to H.
So he is the CEO of H to Hcompanies, an executive coaching
company, and co-owner of PureMatter, a Silicon Valley
(02:56):
marketing agency founded in 2001, which earned a spot as one of
the fastest growing companiesthree years in a row by the
Silicon Valley Business Journal.
So with that, let's welcomeBrian Kramer to the.
Business Is Because Business IsPersonal podcast.
Bryan (03:15):
Oh, mike, thank you so much.
That was really nice of you.
I appreciate it, thanks.
Mike (03:20):
Yeah, so you and I are big on the H to H connection.
I'm empathic marketing becausebusiness is personal.
So before we dive into thebusiness aspect of things, I
like to start with a morepersonal thing.
So what's something that'snon-business related about you
that our listeners may findinteresting or quirky in some
(03:43):
way?
Bryan (03:47):
Let's see.
I think probably the mostquirky thing about me is what my
wife called me since day one,which is Gaylord Focker, which
is my nickname that otherfriends have come to know too,
because we saw that movietogether when we were first
dating.
And I was sitting there nottotally laughing at the movie,
(04:11):
and she looked at me afterwardsand she's like, how could you
not laugh at that?
And I'm like, because that's mylife.
And she said, well, if you'regoing to learn, you have to
learn to embrace your innerGaylord Focker, or I'm never
going to marry you.
And I'm like that is a womanworth marrying and I'm going to
embrace it starting right now.
So ever since then I'veembraced it and I have done all
(04:37):
the things.
So those are.
That would explain the quirkyside of me.
Mike (04:44):
All right.
So it's funny because my wifeand I were on vacation not too
long ago and we didn't have anychannels in our room and
whatever channels we got wasjust playing all the Focker
movies Back to back to back.
We watched them all differentpieces.
So I've watched it recently.
Meet the Fockers.
But what?
How do you relate to Gaylord?
What traits do you share withhim?
Bryan (05:07):
Oh man, you know I do stupid shit, so you know it's,
it's definitely very, veryrandom the stuff that happens.
You know the volleyball scenebeen there, done that, okay, yep
(05:28):
.
So you know, setting settingstuff on fire by accident been
there, done that.
I mean, the list goes on.
Man, I've been in a Formula Onerace by accident with in my
Honda Accord Civic, I should say, and that was not on purpose
(05:51):
and not my finest moment.
You know, the list just goes on.
You know I've done stuff andall own it.
I'm the cause.
So you know it's, it's who I am, and I think there's a little
little little Focker in us all.
So you know, the more weembrace it, the more we will,
(06:13):
you know, be better off.
Mike (06:16):
Well, another time we'll have to discuss more about that
F1 thing.
The reason I say that isbecause the way I introduce most
of my talks is that I say okay,imagine I show up to race in my
F1, in my Ram 1500 pickup truckand Max Verstappen is there and
we switch vehicles.
Okay, we're on the Monacocourse.
Who's going to win that race?
(06:38):
Like me and Max's F1 car or himin my pickup truck, who do you
think would win?
Brian?
Bryan (06:46):
I'm going to go with you as an obscure reason, and you're
about to tell me why.
Mike (06:55):
I don't understand why.
Bryan (06:57):
I'm just gonna go with that, because that's just my
current.
Mike (07:00):
The answer is Max is gonna win, even driving my truck,
because he's a better driver.
He can drive so much betterthan I can drive.
It doesn't matter what vehiclehe's in, and if I'm in an F1 car
, I've never been in an F1 car,so you can imagine how I'm
probably gonna control thatthing right.
And the reason?
I start with that?
Because so many businessestoday they focus on the things
(07:23):
like their websites and theirads and their emails and they
don't focus on the message.
And the message is the driver.
Right, if you spend more timefocusing on the driver, that's
gonna win nine times out of ten,and so that's sort of the
metaphor I use.
It's not about the vehicle,it's not about your websites,
it's not about your funnel, it'snot about the upsells, it's
(07:47):
about the message.
Bryan (07:51):
See that Human Focker moments left and right.
Mike (07:54):
Exactly I have five rescue dogs, and so that happens
sometimes.
Bryan (07:59):
Well, what I love about that is it's all in how we learn
and acknowledge where our blindspots are and then show up and
learn from those blind spots andbe able to create more, and
(08:21):
then that, along with themessage, as you said, is just
critical.
Being a brand marketing guy, Itotally get that.
That makes a lot of sense.
Mike (08:32):
So what did you do prior to becoming this forged
consultant and all the rest ofit?
Do you have a day job?
Bryan (08:43):
My well, we had a marketing agency for 22 years.
Mike (08:47):
So you just started with that.
Bryan (08:50):
Before that I worked my way through ad agencies, through
a marketing agency Okay.
And yeah, so since day one, mydegree was in marketing
communications and with a minorin Japanese, which didn't get me
far.
I just thought that was thebeginning.
So then I started working in adagencies to help with digital
(09:13):
transformation.
Back then it was calledwebsites, and so I just you know
that was.
My job was to help agencies tobecome more digital from
traditional agencies, and then Iworked my way into building
digital interactive companies,leading into my own.
(09:35):
So I started that in 2001 withmy wife, and we had that for 22
years.
So it was always working my waythrough the marketing agency
land, though.
Mike (09:46):
Okay, so that question was a set for my next one.
It's like what motivated you tobecome self-employed, a
business owner and entrepreneur,and have you had any regrets
since making that decision?
Bryan (09:57):
I always knew that I was going to start a company since I
can remember that was my goalwas to learn everything I could
from everybody that was willingto share with me, and so I spent
, you know, every waking momenttrying to figure out what I
could do.
My job, before I got to the tostarting our agency, was
(10:20):
starting a company withinanother company under their P&L,
and I got to learn from havingusing somebody else's money to
start it, and we grew from threepeople to 77 people and it
really gave me such an educationin operations and sales and HR
(10:41):
and marketing and ourselves andall kinds of things.
So, you know, that was, thatwas the.
The impetus really was behindlearning what, what could I do
so that when it was time, Iwould be able to do it.
So the answer to your questionis, yes, regrets, yeah, every
other day I regret it and thenevery other day I don't.
(11:02):
So you know, I, I'm, I'm, I'mhalf kidding.
You know I've, I've hit somehigh highs and some low lows,
and on those lows you, you know,are the good days to to have a
few regrets, and that's when thesaboteur comes up and says what
are you doing?
You know, are you sure you knowwhat you're doing?
(11:22):
I've had those moments, forsure, and and usually it's if I
waited long enough, that passesand I can.
I can head it off.
Mike (11:33):
Yeah, I've always had, really before being an
entrepreneur, I've always hadreally cool jobs.
I was an international whitewater raft guy, I was a
firefighter, I was a paramedic,but for one summer I worked in a
corrugated box factory.
So we made cardboard boxes andmy job was to feed a machine
called the waxer.
So cardboard went into themachine and wax poured down on
it for, you know, like the fruitboxes.
(11:54):
Anyway, sometimes I think aboutthose days and I remember I
would punch it, I would punchout, and when I punched out, I
was out, I was done.
I did not think about workuntil my next shift, Like it was
.
It wasn't something like as anentrepreneur, as a business
owner, is there anything else weever think about?
Like it's always somewhererattling in our brain.
(12:15):
You know what we're doing andhow we're doing it, what we need
to do next, and so sometimes Ilook back with fondness on that
menial, like blue collar job offeeding cardboard into a wax
machine.
Bryan (12:27):
What a job.
That is a neat story.
I love that.
Mike (12:36):
So I'm just going to pause for a second and I'm going to
kick these dogs outside.
Bryan (12:42):
Okay.
Mike (12:45):
They usually don't play at this time of day and my wife's
not home to take them for a walk.
What's up?
Yeah, after COVID, my wifeduring COVID my wife worked for
(13:16):
a poem and she would take thedogs for a walk during these and
but now she works for federalgovernment and they have to go
in two days a week.
This is one of her days whereshe's back to work.
Bryan (13:24):
So oh good, Anyway, stuff happens again.
Mike (13:28):
Yes, we'll resume All right.
Well thanks, brian.
Again, can you share aninteresting story about a major
challenge you faced in yourbusiness and what you did to
overcome that?
Bryan (13:41):
Oh God, which one.
Mike (13:44):
Which one?
Bryan (13:46):
You know, the biggest challenge that I faced was was
my burnout.
I burned out massively when Iwas traveling 200 days a year
speaking and running the agencyfrom the road, and it was.
It was just a really great timein my life and also a painful
(14:08):
time in my life because I waseating my way through every
country and drinking my waythrough every country and every
hotel bar.
And it was just exciting, youknow, especially from the
outside, looking in, using usingthat time to learn how to speak
on stage better, and at thesame time I was.
(14:31):
I was just dragging myselfthrough airports and hotels and
all kinds of stuff, and you knowit got to the point where I was
missing out.
I was missing out on family andfriends and events and, you
know, kids and all that kind ofstuff.
And trying to just run thecompany, too, was just a real
(14:55):
challenge, although we had somegreat support, and so you know,
I came home one day and I toldmy wife I said I can't, can't do
this anymore, not not you and I, but I mean the, just the, the
constant going.
I was really burned out and sowe decided this was six years
ago to exit everything.
(15:17):
So we exited the company andexited speaking.
For a year I picked my kids upfrom school and dropped them off
every day.
I dropped, lost 85 pounds.
I had diabetes, which I, whichI lost.
I don't register with diabetesanymore and so you know it
really turned my life aroundfrom a health standpoint and a
(15:39):
quality of life standpoint.
I continued to run a differentkind of business.
We paired it, we, we put it in,we turned our, our, our company
, or started a new company whichis HCH companies, into a
consulting company whichalleviated a lot of stuff and
(16:00):
and just created a whole newlife.
It was just absolutelyfantastic.
It was.
It was a really hard decision,but it was really the best.
Now, looking back, it's thebest decision I ever made.
Mike (16:12):
Whoa.
So that's a pretty found changeand congratulations for for
stepping back from where youwere when you're so burnt out
and seeing it.
Cause, well, clearly, like upuntil that point, you didn't
take that step back, you didn't,you know, you didn't say I have
to do something, cause, yeah,how'd you not do?
Did anything, then, like, wheredo you think you'd be today?
Bryan (16:36):
You know, I'd probably that.
That's hard to say.
That would be a crystal ballstuff yeah.
Who knows, who knows, but I trynot to say what if or what could
have been cause.
If my head goes to the thatsaboteur side but you know, most
(16:56):
likely I would I would probablystill be running a different
kind of company and and growingit, but I would have either I
don't know I really could havebeen on a path to to worse,
being worse off.
That's the path that I was on.
I was on a really bad path andso I don't think it would have
(17:18):
turned out so well.
It's the honest answer, cool.
Mike (17:23):
I'm glad you made the change, so let's focus more on
like what you primarily talkabout.
So how do brilliant companieslike build trust at the center?
What do they do for that?
Bryan (17:41):
Yeah, building trust at the center is is kind of.
You know, we all talk aboutputting the customer at the
center, but I really think thatwe need to put trust at the
center first and and and talkabout trust as the priority,
because I think, you know, truststarts with both internal at
(18:02):
your organization, as well asexternal with your customer.
How do we build trust at bothends If we're making every
decision with is this, what isthe next right thing for us to
do?
And are we doing the rightthing by our, our employee and
by our customer?
(18:23):
I think that's that's important.
Are we making, are we, are wecommunicating in a trustworthy
way?
You know all the, all thequestions, but at the, at the
end of the day, I don't.
I think that that we've lostour way a little bit and we're
looking.
You know a lot of, a lot ofcompanies are looking at how do
I automate, how do I, how do Iuse AI, how do I use technology,
(18:48):
how do I use all thesedifferent tools now up and
coming BR and AR and all thisstuff to create connection with
customers?
But that's not going to createmore trust, it's just going to
create more automation, and youknow so.
So putting in the human factorand keeping the human factor at
(19:10):
the center, which equates totrust, is is the most vital
thing that we could be doingright now.
Mike (19:17):
Right, Actually I was.
I was building a slide for apresentation just yesterday and
I was.
I was building a slide on thistopic and it's just like the
amount of distrust that's outthere.
Especially, a lot of it comesfrom social media, right.
And one of the slides I saw waslike the filters that are used
(19:39):
in social media.
So the people you see online,they don't look like that
because they've got a filterright.
It showed, like this quiteattractive, you know, a
reasonably attractive30-something-year-old woman, but
the filter that she used madeher look like a, like a cover
model, like a movie star,because the filter made her look
that much better.
So we weren't seeing the trueher, true self, right.
(20:02):
And then just some of theclickbait stuff like we're
seeing so much clickbait that wedon't like we keep getting
burned on.
And the one I used was a mantries to hug a line.
You wouldn't believe whathappened next, right.
And so you, you have to clickon it and you don't get the
answer because it's just, it'sjust clickbait, right.
And then the funniest one I sawis because this happened in
(20:22):
real life and so there was anarticle about these two deputies
in Georgia or something whowent on this killing spree and
were just like killing people,like crazy, and nothing was
being done about it.
And one of my, one of myfriends we're up in Canada,
right, and one of my friends inCanada posted about this because
, you know, sometimes Canadiansthink Americans are a little
(20:43):
crazy with a whole gun stuff orwhatever.
But those politics aside, shewas posting about this, about,
like what is happening in the US, like these two sheriffs are
going nuts.
Do you know who those deputieswere?
Bryan (20:54):
They were the two deputies from.
Mike (20:56):
They were the two deputies from walking dead.
Bryan (20:59):
Wow, yes.
Mike (21:02):
It was a TV show, but somehow something got twisted
somewhere that it was.
It was portrayed that these twodeputies were real life
deputies and they weren't.
They were killing zombies onthe TV show, but in this post
they had these two deputies thatwere just and this was being
portrayed as news like these twocrazy deputies in Georgia
(21:23):
killing people, but really theywere the walking dead deputies.
And my point is is that we'reseeing all this stuff online and
because she shared that as newsout of Georgia, right, and so
if I was to believe her, thenI'd be anyways.
Yeah, there's just so muchdistressed out there because of
(21:44):
stuff like that and so what?
So?
What are?
How do you break that as abusiness?
How do you break that cycle?
Bryan (21:54):
First of all, how random is it that those deputies were
from the walking dead?
That's just, that's crazy.
Yeah, there's so much out there, but I could just go to show
how extreme something can be.
Mike (22:09):
And my friend.
She's well educated, she makesa lot of money, she's an
executive at her company.
Like she's a smart, educatedperson.
Yeah, somehow she's stillbought into this thing and it's
frightening, yeah.
Bryan (22:21):
That's, that's the thing, it's that whole trust.
But verify, you know there's.
I think that there's threethings that goes into building
trust.
The first one simplicity.
What brand do you know that youthink it embraces simplicity?
Mike (22:42):
A Coke is pretty simple, I think.
Bryan (22:43):
Yeah, yeah, totally that's a good one.
Yeah, I think Apple's prettygood at simplicity as well.
Mike (22:51):
They're kind of a.
I was going to say that first.
Bryan (22:52):
Yeah, an easy answer.
But you know they, they reallydo embrace it.
How about now?
This is a softball for youbecause of how you wrote a book.
But how about empathy?
A brand embraces empathy.
Mike (23:06):
You know, I'm just going to be a little bit controversial
here and I'm going to say, likethe most empathic brand on the
planet is Donald Trump.
Trump understands his audienceunlike anybody I've ever seen
before.
He knows exactly what they want.
He knows exactly what theirproblems are and he tells them
(23:27):
exactly what they want to hear.
Like he is and I'm not.
I'm not saying I'm for oragainst Trump, he's staying in
the middle, but I'm.
I'm planting my flag sayingthere is no more empathic being
on the planet than Trump,because he understands his
audience better than anybodyI've ever seen in my life.
Bryan (23:43):
Wow, that's it.
That is a, an answer I neverthought I would.
I would hear and and I love, Ilove the the controversial
nature in it too.
Yeah, you know I might throwAmazon in there because you know
for the most part you canreturn almost every product
(24:04):
without question.
And when you're talking abouttrust, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so
that you know, not a lot oflocal stores, or stores in
general, allow easy return, andthey've just managed to figure
it out.
What about imperfection?
Who do you think embracesimperfection?
Mike (24:24):
Embraces imperfection.
Bryan (24:27):
I can say embraces they're, they're intergaler at
Fokker moments, but we'll gowith imperfection.
Mike (24:34):
That's a tough one, yeah, I, yeah.
I'm going to stumble for toolong thinking that.
So just yeah, feed me theanswer there.
Bryan (24:42):
I don't know if there is just one, but you know, like
Dove, dove embraces theimperfection of skin in a lot of
their marketing.
They are advertising thatnonprofits, like you know.
Red Cross, you know, does agood job.
There's a lot of, you know,imperfection, humanity type of
(25:06):
companies that embrace it.
I can tell you, the companythat doesn't embrace all three
is Facebook, or at least in myopinion.
You know there's no simplicityin that brand.
There's not really anyembracement of empathy, and they
try to be.
(25:26):
You know there's noimperfection there.
I mean, it is imperfect,nothing's perfect, but it's
certainly a brand that doesn'tembrace all three.
So, yeah, I think that thosethree things simplicity, empathy
and imperfection are the secretingredients.
When brands or people thatworks for both embrace all three
(25:48):
, it really locks in a higherlevel of trust over time.
Trust isn't built overnight,but it is certainly something
that's a lot faster when youembrace all three of those.
Mike (26:01):
Yeah, for any of us who have advertised on Facebook, we
certainly can relate to thatempathy thing.
I had a client.
We were spending $10,000 a week, which is, you know,
significant money, and we hadour ad account shut down.
And I was the ads manager and Iwas following the rules, like I
wasn't breaking any rules, andI just tried to reach out to
(26:25):
Facebook and I said can you tellme what I did wrong?
And I finally got some answersback that I could just they
could.
There's no way they could reopenmy account, but I could create
a new account.
And I said I'll happily do that, but I'm going to continue
doing what I was doing because Ididn't know I was doing
anything wrong.
So if you could just you know,share with me what mistakes I
(26:48):
was making, you know ignorantly,I'll be sure not to do that in
the future.
But they wouldn't tell me.
They're like sorry, that's likeproprietary information.
I'm like do you want me tospend money on your platform or
not?
Like I want to work with you.
And they were like no, we don'twork with people.
Like we take your money andwe've got enough business that
(27:08):
we're in the take or leave ofbusiness.
Nailed it yeah.
Bryan (27:12):
Nailed it.
Mike (27:13):
It was horrible working with those people.
Bryan (27:16):
Absolutely.
Mike (27:17):
And that's, and so then I also do advertising on Google
and we weren't spending a lot ofmoney but I could call somebody
on Google and talk to a realperson and within his ability,
he would do everything he couldto help me and he was very
transparent and it was such adifferent experience, like
Google on the ad side of thingshad a lot more empathy, because
(27:41):
because I told him like I'm like, listen, dude, I'm new to
Google ads, I don't know whatI'm doing, I need your help,
right.
And he was like, okay, I get it, here's what we need to do.
And he held my hand all alongthe way and Facebook was not
like that.
Bryan (27:56):
It makes a difference, it makes a huge difference and you
know, we'll be more likely tospend a little more of our of
our dollars in a brand that we,we trust.
Mike (28:08):
That's correct, yeah, yeah , so some along the same line.
So like how do we learn how tospeak and market and sell human
to human?
Bryan (28:21):
You know part part of it, a lot of it, is what we just
talked about the simplicity,empathy and imperfection.
There's, there's one moreingredient to how we, how we
talk, and that's that's intimacy.
Intimacy, or as I like to callit, into me, you see, is giving
(28:41):
people transparency into what'sgoing on.
When you add that ingredientinto the three, into the how we
communicate, intimacy is adeepening of a relationship over
time, and and when you peelback that, that proverbial layer
of the onion and and and createmore intimacy with your, your
(29:05):
customer, your, your potentialcustomer, you know like when,
when you have, you know.
There's like this greatconversation that happened with
Amazon on Amazon support, ontheir chat, and this one support
specialist already knew theperson had ordered the Hala,
(29:31):
this book, from Thor, and itdidn't arrive because of his
profile, because of the datathat they had.
And he said may I call you Thor?
And?
And he said, oh my God, yes.
And he said, well, you can callme Odin, okay.
And he said well, odin, though,are having challenges with thy
(29:54):
delivery of thy book.
And he said well, thou muststop that right here and deliver
thy book within within twofortnights, or within one
fortnight or something and andit just went on and the guy got
his book, but it was just likethis, this level of and they
went back and forth and learnmore about each other and
(30:17):
started cracking up and createdthis intimate moment of
conversation in this, this topic, and I just thought, man, that
is just something that AI willnever really be able to do.
I mean, it's just a it's, it'san understanding and a and a
creation of not just intimacybut also humor and and and
(30:40):
deepening the relationship.
The guy you know posted onlineis went totally viral because
that's that's something that thecompany also approves and says
yeah, go create personalizedexperiences, thank you.
Mike (30:55):
So, just devil's advocate now, so many people are now are
afraid of that personalized sideof things and I'll just give
you an example.
So, as we spoke about duringthe break there, my wife works
for the federal government andshe does mostly zoom meetings
and one of the people on herteam so it's big zoom meeting
(31:16):
well, not big, there's like fiveor six people on the call but
one of the one of her coworkersmentioned to a woman on the call
it's like oh, monday morningthat's hair washing day.
I totally get that, because mywife has long, full hair like
you, and I know what an ordealit is to, you know, for women
with hair like that to wash it.
And so, yeah, I see, like thismorning was was hair washing day
(31:37):
.
And he just made that commentbecause he wanted to have that
personal connection and hetalked about like how he knows
about it because of his wife.
But that one was on the other,was, was, was, was on the client
side and she went to hermanager and said you know, I'm
uncomfortable on these calls now.
And so she talked to hermanager and my wife's the
(31:57):
manager.
So that manager talked to mywife and said listen, we got to
do something about this guywho's making these inappropriate
comments on these calls.
And, like I, was looking atyour face and I didn't see any
signs that you thought what hesaid was inappropriate and I
didn't think it wasinappropriate and he didn't
think it was inappropriate.
But it's so hard now where thelines are that we don't even
(32:18):
know exist, and are you everafraid of crossing them?
Bryan (32:23):
Yeah, I mean, you know context is king, right.
So, and the biggest, thebiggest killer of all
relationships is assumptions.
And what I hear happening inthat conversation was an
assumption of where that personwas coming from.
And you know, in especiallyrelationships, when we, when we
(32:49):
don't clear an assumption to you, know it directly or indirectly
, it really can kill just aboutanything faster than then almost
anything else.
An assumption is something webuild on and it gets worse over
time if we don't clear it.
And that's, that's a businessissue, that's that's not a that,
(33:11):
that's an interpersonalrelationship issue and really a
leadership issue, a leadershipchallenge.
And you know, if everybodylearned how to ask more powerful
questions and learn more in thecontext and contextual based
understanding and clearingassumptions, we'd all be better
off.
Mike (33:31):
So what was the incorrect assumption in that dynamic there
?
Bryan (33:35):
I think.
Well, based upon what you weretelling me and what I, what I
know of what you said, it soundslike she or he, somebody,
whoever the person on theopposite end, the lady, assumed
that that was a dig or that wasinappropriate for some.
For whatever reason, she madean assumption that it was a, it
(33:59):
was a personal attack and andand.
So clearing that assumptionsimply by saying you know where,
you know where are you comingfrom, can you tell me more?
Would have probably mitigatedthe whole thing, but staying
quiet and keeping the assumptionto yourself just prolongs it.
Mike (34:22):
Okay, yeah, because I think if you would have just
commented on her hair, thatmight be like a sexual sort of
thing, but he's like I get itbecause my wife it's every
Monday morning, that's her bighair washing day, and I
understand how much work youwomen go through and he thought
it was just a completelyinnocent like let's, we've got
this shared thing.
You wash your hair, my wifewashes her hair and let you know
(34:44):
, we've got this shared bond now.
And like, say, she had someother assumption that we're not
aware of, right, that you knowwe couldn't predict in advance.
Bryan (34:52):
Yeah, totally.
Mike (34:53):
And so it's just kind of frightening.
Bryan (34:56):
Yeah, it's even worse in social media, because there's no
body language.
Mike (35:01):
That's right.
That's right.
That's yes, yeah, yeah.
So what are the fastest ways tobuild trust in a business and
grow your business with moretime, ease and impact?
Bryan (35:14):
One of the fastest ways is speed, you know, speed to
correcting the issue, speed toconversation, speed to customer
support, speed to everything.
And I'm not saying that youshould react.
I'm saying, you know, take,take enough time to respond, but
(35:36):
but but not not creating somuch distance that it it creates
.
It creates more distance.
The you know, when we hear backlike if you get quotes from,
let's say, you know threedifferent contractors to come in
and help you deliver somethingfor, for, let's say, putting a
(35:58):
new roof on the company thatsends you the fastest quote, is
is going to be in the top twothey immediately get a higher
priority of being chosen simplybecause they responded faster.
And so that comes down to youknow structure, process and and
(36:23):
operations.
And the more that you canreally create that you know
within your company, create afaster response mechanism for
everything that you do so thatyou're ready to respond You're
not ready to you have to react,the better, the, the more trust
you're going to build.
It's it really is in speed.
Mike (36:45):
Okay, yeah, like I've mentioned this, this talk I'm
doing is presentation.
I'm doing a month or two and itwas interesting, the, the host
of the, of the mastermind, he.
He asked me for a headshot inmy bio and so I sent it to him
that afternoon.
He got back to me the next dayjust like gushing, saying how
professional I am and how greatit is to work with somebody like
(37:08):
me, and I was completelyconfused.
I was like I don't know, Ithink you're thinking about
somebody else, becauseeverything was saying seemed
like I did something reallyelaborate.
He's like no, I asked you foryour headshot and you're bound.
You sent it to me like a timelymanner and like nobody does
that, like none of the otherspeakers have sent me their
headshots or bios yet.
(37:29):
And so yeah, what you're saying,nowadays it's really easy to
stand out by just being normal,Almost right.
Bryan (37:40):
Yeah, well, normal to you and me, you know, and to people
that you know, or or companiesthat don't have the right
process in place.
You know, I got a tweet onetime from this is when Virgin
(38:02):
America was was around and Itweeted from the airplane saying
I had my coffee, my electricplush and my wifi what could be
better?
And I'm on my way to Florida togive a keynote.
They looked me up and and andthen they responded in kind and
said looks like you're goodbecause it was public knowledge.
(38:24):
They said looks like you'regoing to give a great keynote at
IBM.
We're, we are, we are so gladthat you have all the right
tools in the air to get youthere safely.
And I just thought, and they didthat within like like five or
10 minutes and I was like that's, that's how it's done.
(38:46):
You know, that's how an antiscreenshot it and I put it in my
keynote for the next day.
So not only did they respondwell, but you know I gave them
some airtime as well.
It's that kind of stuff thatjust goes a long way.
It's not just even responding,but putting that added.
Like you know, they didn't knowus speaking at IBM, but it's
(39:07):
public knowledge.
If you do, you do a simpleGoogle search.
Now, all of a sudden it's likewhole.
You just took it to a whole newlevel.
Mike (39:15):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, Well, it used to be smallthings.
I think are bigger things nowand and what's interesting and
you said this at the start ofthe talk is that so many
businesses are trying toconsciously move away from that.
They're trying to automateeverything, make everything more
mechanical and, um, yeah, Ithink AI actually might be able
(39:37):
to replicate that eventually,but right now it's not there and
I don't think we should befully automating everything at
this point in the game.
Bryan (39:45):
No, definitely not.
Mike (39:49):
So where do you see AI playing a role in today's
marketplace and maybe movingforward?
Bryan (39:56):
Everywhere and it's just going to grow.
It's funny.
I was on an interview thismorning just talking about how
my first Mac computer it waswhat, a Mac SE or a Mac Plus, I
can't remember, but it had fourmegabytes, not gigabytes,
(40:19):
megabytes and I had a bulletinboard system for anyone who
remembers what that is with adial-up modem, dual band, 2,400
BOD.
And I just sat there and waitedfor any one of my friends who
had the phone number to justdial in and try it out.
(40:39):
And there they were.
There he was my friend Brendan,who typed back and said hello,
and I'm like, oh my god, thefuture is here.
And I'm like this is so cool.
Right Like how many years agois that?
That's like I don't even know.
And now look at us, right Likenow, there's chat bots that are
(41:03):
AI.
Like that's like you know,bulletin board, schmolten board.
Now we've got chat bots and soyou know where is it going to be
everywhere?
Where do we insert the simplemoments of truth that are human?
That's the bigger question.
So right now, it's a matter ofknowing that being human is
(41:28):
actually everybody's competitiveadvantage, because everybody's
automating so much that it's thereverse where, if you stand out
and be more human, and itdoesn't take much.
Then you're going to stand outmore and it's.
You know, it's just that wayand it's going to become more
(41:48):
and more that way as we go.
Mike (41:50):
That's right.
That's right and because Ithink trust is going to continue
to be on the decline, there'sgoing to be less and less trust.
I have a friend, he's apodcaster and he interviewed
Shaquille O'Neal and he gotcomments that people were saying
that Shaq was AI generated,like people didn't believe he
(42:13):
was actually speaking to Shaq,and so that's where the trust is
going.
I guess Shaq kind of talks alittle bit funny, you might talk
a little bit like a robotsometimes and people thought
like this is, you know, you justAI generated Shaq's image and,
you know, cloned his voice andthis was like a completely
fictitious thing, and thatscared me a bit.
(42:35):
You know people.
We used to trust what we couldsee, but now we can't do that
anymore because if it's on thescreen and we're seeing it, we
have no like.
Just look at movies now, likethere's no way you can tell
what's a green like Tom Cruise,he's about the only guy that
actually takes a motorcycle offa cliff.
Bryan (42:53):
I'm a ice man in Top Gun was his voice, was AI generated,
you know, because he couldn'ttalk, because he's got a trachea
in his throat, and so theygenerated they use software to
generate his voice during thatwhole conversation and they took
pieces of his past top all ofhis movie and Top Gun acting
(43:15):
experiences and pieced ittogether and created the voice
that we all heard to do that, sothat he could appear because
Tom Cruise was saying that we'renot doing this movie without
him.
And they're like, well, we don'thave a voice.
And here we go.
I mean, you know, arnoldSchwarzenegger has a podcast out
that is all 100% AI generatedof his voice, but he owns it.
(43:40):
That's the key is he owns it.
He's transparent about it.
So, as long as we'retransparent about AI generation,
I don't see a problem with that.
I see a problem with AIgeneration being for fake or for
, you know, put in place to fakeout people saying like this is
(44:01):
real, that that's, that's gonnahave a bad effect on on every
brand that tries that.
Mike (44:07):
Okay so I think we understand that brands and
business have to be more human,have more empathy, build more
trust, but like what's oneactionable thing that businesses
could start doing today thatwill move the needle for them?
Bryan (44:24):
I would say walk over to your whiteboard, uh map that
just just draw out, grab aperson or a bunch of people that
know your, your journey, yourcustomer journey or your just
your business in general, andjust drop in all the different
places, all the different touchpoints that you have
communication.
(44:44):
Um, just just throw it up on awhiteboard and then take a step
back and say now, where are thehuman touch points?
And then take a step back andsay now, where can we take it up
a level?
If you do that exercise and youjust touch one or two different
places in that way, you will bewinning.
It's just a matter of taking amoment to do that, to make the
(45:07):
human moments of truth matter.
Mike (45:09):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and I quite often do that.
Um, I've lead magnets we allhave lead magnets, right and
I'll quite often, depending onhow I interact with the person
like we all have automated emailsequences, right but whenever I
can, if there's anything I knowabout that person, I will send
(45:30):
them a personal email once I'velearned that little tidbit and
then, that way they know thatthis wasn't an automated email,
because the only way I thatemail could have included that
piece of information is if Iknew them personally and I think
and that always goes a lot Iusually get a response saying,
oh, wow, you're real.
Yeah, crazy, Isn't it?
(45:51):
And yeah, that's good.
Bryan (45:52):
Yeah, I mean, I have a newsletter that I really try
hard to get people to reply to.
That's my number one engagement, uh, kpi and um and uh, and
then I'll take uh the followingday and reply back.
Uh, most of the time in video,uh, all actually out walking and
(46:13):
, and I'll just do my reply as avideo and hit, hit, send and
that just like goes miles.
Man, it doesn't take much,either 10 or 15 seconds.
I loved what you said.
Here's why I loved it andhere's where I'm going with that
.
And boom, people will replyback and go Holy crap, really,
you, you really did that.
Like, that's, that's cool andit didn't take much, right, like
(46:36):
, like, it's as fast as almosttyping out an email, if not
faster, because we're just veryit's easier.
Um, but those are the littlethings that can make a
difference.
Mike (46:47):
Very cool.
Well, thanks, brian.
Um, if anybody wanted to reachout from you or get in contact
with you or get some help fromyou, what?
What's the best way to reachout from you?
Or do you have anything for myaudience here?
Bryan (46:59):
Thanks, man.
Um, yeah, if you go to my site,it's at Brian Kramercom Brian
with a Y, kramer with a K, andthen at Brian Kramer everywhere
on social Um, and uh, you know,if you're, if you're looking for
uh, all of my, all of myarticles, all of my, uh, my, my
bi-week, bi-monthly newsletter,um, I've got um a ton of stuff
(47:22):
to write weekly, so everything'sthere and, like I said before,
if you hit the reply button Iwill reply back.
So, uh, you know, I wouldn't bethe age age guy if I didn't.
Mike (47:32):
Well, very cool.
Well, thanks, Brian, this is,uh, it's great having a
like-minded.
Well, I'm actually, most of myguests are like-minded, but
you're very tightly like-minded.
I love what you've done withage to age.
No B2B, no B2C is that's?
That's amazing.
So, yeah, I really appreciateyou taking the time and sharing
your knowledge with my withmyself and my listeners.
Bryan (47:52):
Uh, thanks, mike.
I really appreciated theheartfelt questions and and the
conversation.
Cheers man.
Mike (47:57):
All right.
Thanks, brian, and that is awrap for this episode of Because
Business is Personal.
Thanks for joining us and don'tforget to take advantage of my
two special offers.
First, you can get a free copyof my best-selling book,
empathic Marketing.
You just pay for the shipping.
Or you can have 50% discount onmy gap analysis session with
(48:20):
the coupon code podcast.
Just head over towwwBecauseBusinessIsPersonalcom
or check the show notes fordetails.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please don't forget to
follow, subscribe, leave areview and share the podcast
with others who might benefit.
Your support means the world tous, so stay tuned for our next
(48:44):
episode, where we'll continue todelve into the intersection of
empathy and marketing strategy.
Remember, because Business isIndeed Personal, every
Connection Counts.
Until next time, see you then.
Hey, welcome to the Because Business is Personal
podcast, the podcast whereempathy meets marketing strategy
.
I'm your host, mike Caldwell,but I'm also known as the
marketing medic.
Now, the reason for that isbecause, before becoming a
marketing strategist, I actuallyworked as a paramedic for 12
years, and it was during thattime that I realized how
(00:20):
important it was to trulyunderstand the problems your
patient was facing before youstarted providing treatment.
And it's the same understanding, the same empathy, is just as
crucial when it comes tounderstanding our prospects and
making sales, and that's why, ineach episode, we'll dissect the
art of empathic marketing,exploring how top professionals
(00:44):
infuse empathy into theirstrategies to build stronger
relationships, boost their salesand make a lasting impact.
So buckle up and prepare toturn up the dial on your
marketing effectiveness.
As we gear up to dive deeperinto the realm of empathic
marketing, I'd like to share acouple of special offers with
you.
First, you can get a free copyof my international bestselling
(01:07):
book Empathic Marketing.
You only need to cover the costof shipping.
Reading this will provide youwith a much more in-depth
understanding of theempathy-based marketing approach
that we explore in this show.
Next, I'm offering a 50%discount on a transformative
30-minute gap analysis sessionwith me.
Reading this session willidentify the hurdles in your
(01:30):
marketing efforts and togetherwill develop an actionable
roadmap aimed at winning youmore clients and making you more
sales.
Just visit my website,wwwbecausebusinessispersonalcom
to grab your book or use couponcode podcast to take advantage
of my gap analysis offer.
(01:51):
So why wait?
Let's start turbocharging yourmarketing strategy today.
Now let's get started with ourepisode.
Hey everyone, welcome back tothe Because Business Is Personal
podcast.
We've got a special treat today.
I've just been speaking to him.
He's Brian Kramer.
We've decided that he's abrother from another mother.
(02:12):
He's been called the Zen Masterto Digital Marketers by Forbes.
Brian Kramer is a renownedbusiness strategist, a global
keynote speaker, an executivetrainer and coach investor,
two-time bestselling author,including top 150 USA
bestselling books, and a Forbescontributor.
Brian also created a globalmovement and is known for his
(02:36):
keynotes, his book and talks onand this is the part that really
got me excited aboutinterviewing him there is no B2B
, there is no B2C.
It's human to human, h to H.
So he is the CEO of H to Hcompanies, an executive coaching
company, and co-owner of PureMatter, a Silicon Valley
(02:56):
marketing agency founded in 2001, which earned a spot as one of
the fastest growing companiesthree years in a row by the
Silicon Valley Business Journal.
So with that, let's welcomeBrian Kramer to the.
Business Is Because Business IsPersonal podcast.
Bryan (03:15):
Oh, mike, thank you so much.
That was really nice of you.
I appreciate it, thanks.
Mike (03:20):
Yeah, so you and I are big on the H to H connection.
I'm empathic marketing becausebusiness is personal.
So before we dive into thebusiness aspect of things, I
like to start with a morepersonal thing.
So what's something that'snon-business related about you
that our listeners may findinteresting or quirky in some
(03:43):
way?
Bryan (03:47):
Let's see.
I think probably the mostquirky thing about me is what my
wife called me since day one,which is Gaylord Focker, which
is my nickname that otherfriends have come to know too,
because we saw that movietogether when we were first
dating.
And I was sitting there nottotally laughing at the movie,
(04:11):
and she looked at me afterwardsand she's like, how could you
not laugh at that?
And I'm like, because that's mylife.
And she said, well, if you'regoing to learn, you have to
learn to embrace your innerGaylord Focker, or I'm never
going to marry you.
And I'm like that is a womanworth marrying and I'm going to
embrace it starting right now.
So ever since then I'veembraced it and I have done all
(04:37):
the things.
So those are.
That would explain the quirkyside of me.
Mike (04:44):
All right.
So it's funny because my wifeand I were on vacation not too
long ago and we didn't have anychannels in our room and
whatever channels we got wasjust playing all the Focker
movies Back to back to back.
We watched them all differentpieces.
So I've watched it recently.
Meet the Fockers.
But what?
How do you relate to Gaylord?
What traits do you share withhim?
Bryan (05:07):
Oh man, you know I do stupid shit, so you know it's,
it's definitely very, veryrandom the stuff that happens.
You know the volleyball scenebeen there, done that, okay, yep
(05:28):
.
So you know, setting settingstuff on fire by accident been
there, done that.
I mean, the list goes on.
Man, I've been in a Formula Onerace by accident with in my
Honda Accord Civic, I should say, and that was not on purpose
(05:51):
and not my finest moment.
You know, the list just goes on.
You know I've done stuff andall own it.
I'm the cause.
So you know it's, it's who I am, and I think there's a little
little little Focker in us all.
So you know, the more weembrace it, the more we will,
(06:13):
you know, be better off.
Mike (06:16):
Well, another time we'll have to discuss more about that
F1 thing.
The reason I say that isbecause the way I introduce most
of my talks is that I say okay,imagine I show up to race in my
F1, in my Ram 1500 pickup truckand Max Verstappen is there and
we switch vehicles.
Okay, we're on the Monacocourse.
Who's going to win that race?
(06:38):
Like me and Max's F1 car or himin my pickup truck, who do you
think would win?
Brian?
Bryan (06:46):
I'm going to go with you as an obscure reason, and you're
about to tell me why.
Mike (06:55):
I don't understand why.
Bryan (06:57):
I'm just gonna go with that, because that's just my
current.
Mike (07:00):
The answer is Max is gonna win, even driving my truck,
because he's a better driver.
He can drive so much betterthan I can drive.
It doesn't matter what vehiclehe's in, and if I'm in an F1 car
, I've never been in an F1 car,so you can imagine how I'm
probably gonna control thatthing right.
And the reason?
I start with that?
Because so many businessestoday they focus on the things
(07:23):
like their websites and theirads and their emails and they
don't focus on the message.
And the message is the driver.
Right, if you spend more timefocusing on the driver, that's
gonna win nine times out of ten,and so that's sort of the
metaphor I use.
It's not about the vehicle,it's not about your websites,
it's not about your funnel, it'snot about the upsells, it's
(07:47):
about the message.
Bryan (07:51):
See that Human Focker moments left and right.
Mike (07:54):
Exactly I have five rescue dogs, and so that happens
sometimes.
Bryan (07:59):
Well, what I love about that is it's all in how we learn
and acknowledge where our blindspots are and then show up and
learn from those blind spots andbe able to create more, and
(08:21):
then that, along with themessage, as you said, is just
critical.
Being a brand marketing guy, Itotally get that.
That makes a lot of sense.
Mike (08:32):
So what did you do prior to becoming this forged
consultant and all the rest ofit?
Do you have a day job?
Bryan (08:43):
My well, we had a marketing agency for 22 years.
Mike (08:47):
So you just started with that.
Bryan (08:50):
Before that I worked my way through ad agencies, through
a marketing agency Okay.
And yeah, so since day one, mydegree was in marketing
communications and with a minorin Japanese, which didn't get me
far.
I just thought that was thebeginning.
So then I started working in adagencies to help with digital
(09:13):
transformation.
Back then it was calledwebsites, and so I just you know
that was.
My job was to help agencies tobecome more digital from
traditional agencies, and then Iworked my way into building
digital interactive companies,leading into my own.
(09:35):
So I started that in 2001 withmy wife, and we had that for 22
years.
So it was always working my waythrough the marketing agency
land, though.
Mike (09:46):
Okay, so that question was a set for my next one.
It's like what motivated you tobecome self-employed, a
business owner and entrepreneur,and have you had any regrets
since making that decision?
Bryan (09:57):
I always knew that I was going to start a company since I
can remember that was my goalwas to learn everything I could
from everybody that was willingto share with me, and so I spent
, you know, every waking momenttrying to figure out what I
could do.
My job, before I got to the tostarting our agency, was
(10:20):
starting a company withinanother company under their P&L,
and I got to learn from havingusing somebody else's money to
start it, and we grew from threepeople to 77 people and it
really gave me such an educationin operations and sales and HR
(10:41):
and marketing and ourselves andall kinds of things.
So, you know, that was, thatwas the.
The impetus really was behindlearning what, what could I do
so that when it was time, Iwould be able to do it.
So the answer to your questionis, yes, regrets, yeah, every
other day I regret it and thenevery other day I don't.
(11:02):
So you know, I, I'm, I'm, I'mhalf kidding.
You know I've, I've hit somehigh highs and some low lows,
and on those lows you, you know,are the good days to to have a
few regrets, and that's when thesaboteur comes up and says what
are you doing?
You know, are you sure you knowwhat you're doing?
(11:22):
I've had those moments, forsure, and and usually it's if I
waited long enough, that passesand I can.
I can head it off.
Mike (11:33):
Yeah, I've always had, really before being an
entrepreneur, I've always hadreally cool jobs.
I was an international whitewater raft guy, I was a
firefighter, I was a paramedic,but for one summer I worked in a
corrugated box factory.
So we made cardboard boxes andmy job was to feed a machine
called the waxer.
So cardboard went into themachine and wax poured down on
it for, you know, like the fruitboxes.
(11:54):
Anyway, sometimes I think aboutthose days and I remember I
would punch it, I would punchout, and when I punched out, I
was out, I was done.
I did not think about workuntil my next shift, Like it was
.
It wasn't something like as anentrepreneur, as a business
owner, is there anything else weever think about?
Like it's always somewhererattling in our brain.
(12:15):
You know what we're doing andhow we're doing it, what we need
to do next, and so sometimes Ilook back with fondness on that
menial, like blue collar job offeeding cardboard into a wax
machine.
Bryan (12:27):
What a job.
That is a neat story.
I love that.
Mike (12:36):
So I'm just going to pause for a second and I'm going to
kick these dogs outside.
Bryan (12:42):
Okay.
Mike (12:45):
They usually don't play at this time of day and my wife's
not home to take them for a walk.
What's up?
Yeah, after COVID, my wifeduring COVID my wife worked for
(13:16):
a poem and she would take thedogs for a walk during these and
but now she works for federalgovernment and they have to go
in two days a week.
This is one of her days whereshe's back to work.
Bryan (13:24):
So oh good, Anyway, stuff happens again.
Mike (13:28):
Yes, we'll resume All right.
Well thanks, brian.
Again, can you share aninteresting story about a major
challenge you faced in yourbusiness and what you did to
overcome that?
Bryan (13:41):
Oh God, which one.
Mike (13:44):
Which one?
Bryan (13:46):
You know, the biggest challenge that I faced was was
my burnout.
I burned out massively when Iwas traveling 200 days a year
speaking and running the agencyfrom the road, and it was.
It was just a really great timein my life and also a painful
(14:08):
time in my life because I waseating my way through every
country and drinking my waythrough every country and every
hotel bar.
And it was just exciting, youknow, especially from the
outside, looking in, using usingthat time to learn how to speak
on stage better, and at thesame time I was.
(14:31):
I was just dragging myselfthrough airports and hotels and
all kinds of stuff, and you knowit got to the point where I was
missing out.
I was missing out on family andfriends and events and, you
know, kids and all that kind ofstuff.
And trying to just run thecompany, too, was just a real
(14:55):
challenge, although we had somegreat support, and so you know,
I came home one day and I toldmy wife I said I can't, can't do
this anymore, not not you and I, but I mean the, just the, the
constant going.
I was really burned out and sowe decided this was six years
ago to exit everything.
(15:17):
So we exited the company andexited speaking.
For a year I picked my kids upfrom school and dropped them off
every day.
I dropped, lost 85 pounds.
I had diabetes, which I, whichI lost.
I don't register with diabetesanymore and so you know it
really turned my life aroundfrom a health standpoint and a
(15:39):
quality of life standpoint.
I continued to run a differentkind of business.
We paired it, we, we put it in,we turned our, our, our company
, or started a new company whichis HCH companies, into a
consulting company whichalleviated a lot of stuff and
(16:00):
and just created a whole newlife.
It was just absolutelyfantastic.
It was.
It was a really hard decision,but it was really the best.
Now, looking back, it's thebest decision I ever made.
Mike (16:12):
Whoa.
So that's a pretty found changeand congratulations for for
stepping back from where youwere when you're so burnt out
and seeing it.
Cause, well, clearly, like upuntil that point, you didn't
take that step back, you didn't,you know, you didn't say I have
to do something, cause, yeah,how'd you not do?
Did anything, then, like, wheredo you think you'd be today?
Bryan (16:36):
You know, I'd probably that.
That's hard to say.
That would be a crystal ballstuff yeah.
Who knows, who knows, but I trynot to say what if or what could
have been cause.
If my head goes to the thatsaboteur side but you know, most
(16:56):
likely I would I would probablystill be running a different
kind of company and and growingit, but I would have either I
don't know I really could havebeen on a path to to worse,
being worse off.
That's the path that I was on.
I was on a really bad path andso I don't think it would have
(17:18):
turned out so well.
It's the honest answer, cool.
Mike (17:23):
I'm glad you made the change, so let's focus more on
like what you primarily talkabout.
So how do brilliant companieslike build trust at the center?
What do they do for that?
Bryan (17:41):
Yeah, building trust at the center is is kind of.
You know, we all talk aboutputting the customer at the
center, but I really think thatwe need to put trust at the
center first and and and talkabout trust as the priority,
because I think, you know, truststarts with both internal at
(18:02):
your organization, as well asexternal with your customer.
How do we build trust at bothends If we're making every
decision with is this, what isthe next right thing for us to
do?
And are we doing the rightthing by our, our employee and
by our customer?
(18:23):
I think that's that's important.
Are we making, are we, are wecommunicating in a trustworthy
way?
You know all the, all thequestions, but at the, at the
end of the day, I don't.
I think that that we've lostour way a little bit and we're
looking.
You know a lot of, a lot ofcompanies are looking at how do
I automate, how do I, how do Iuse AI, how do I use technology,
(18:48):
how do I use all thesedifferent tools now up and
coming BR and AR and all thisstuff to create connection with
customers?
But that's not going to createmore trust, it's just going to
create more automation, and youknow so.
So putting in the human factorand keeping the human factor at
(19:10):
the center, which equates totrust, is is the most vital
thing that we could be doingright now.
Mike (19:17):
Right, Actually I was.
I was building a slide for apresentation just yesterday and
I was.
I was building a slide on thistopic and it's just like the
amount of distrust that's outthere.
Especially, a lot of it comesfrom social media, right.
And one of the slides I saw waslike the filters that are used
(19:39):
in social media.
So the people you see online,they don't look like that
because they've got a filterright.
It showed, like this quiteattractive, you know, a
reasonably attractive30-something-year-old woman, but
the filter that she used madeher look like a, like a cover
model, like a movie star,because the filter made her look
that much better.
So we weren't seeing the trueher, true self, right.
(20:02):
And then just some of theclickbait stuff like we're
seeing so much clickbait that wedon't like we keep getting
burned on.
And the one I used was a mantries to hug a line.
You wouldn't believe whathappened next, right.
And so you, you have to clickon it and you don't get the
answer because it's just, it'sjust clickbait, right.
And then the funniest one I sawis because this happened in
(20:22):
real life and so there was anarticle about these two deputies
in Georgia or something whowent on this killing spree and
were just like killing people,like crazy, and nothing was
being done about it.
And one of my, one of myfriends we're up in Canada,
right, and one of my friends inCanada posted about this because
, you know, sometimes Canadiansthink Americans are a little
(20:43):
crazy with a whole gun stuff orwhatever.
But those politics aside, shewas posting about this, about,
like what is happening in the US, like these two sheriffs are
going nuts.
Do you know who those deputieswere?
Bryan (20:54):
They were the two deputies from.
Mike (20:56):
They were the two deputies from walking dead.
Bryan (20:59):
Wow, yes.
Mike (21:02):
It was a TV show, but somehow something got twisted
somewhere that it was.
It was portrayed that these twodeputies were real life
deputies and they weren't.
They were killing zombies onthe TV show, but in this post
they had these two deputies thatwere just and this was being
portrayed as news like these twocrazy deputies in Georgia
(21:23):
killing people, but really theywere the walking dead deputies.
And my point is is that we'reseeing all this stuff online and
because she shared that as newsout of Georgia, right, and so
if I was to believe her, thenI'd be anyways.
Yeah, there's just so muchdistressed out there because of
(21:44):
stuff like that and so what?
So?
What are?
How do you break that as abusiness?
How do you break that cycle?
Bryan (21:54):
First of all, how random is it that those deputies were
from the walking dead?
That's just, that's crazy.
Yeah, there's so much out there, but I could just go to show
how extreme something can be.
Mike (22:09):
And my friend.
She's well educated, she makesa lot of money, she's an
executive at her company.
Like she's a smart, educatedperson.
Yeah, somehow she's stillbought into this thing and it's
frightening, yeah.
Bryan (22:21):
That's, that's the thing, it's that whole trust.
But verify, you know there's.
I think that there's threethings that goes into building
trust.
The first one simplicity.
What brand do you know that youthink it embraces simplicity?
Mike (22:42):
A Coke is pretty simple, I think.
Bryan (22:43):
Yeah, yeah, totally that's a good one.
Yeah, I think Apple's prettygood at simplicity as well.
Mike (22:51):
They're kind of a.
I was going to say that first.
Bryan (22:52):
Yeah, an easy answer.
But you know they, they reallydo embrace it.
How about now?
This is a softball for youbecause of how you wrote a book.
But how about empathy?
A brand embraces empathy.
Mike (23:06):
You know, I'm just going to be a little bit controversial
here and I'm going to say, likethe most empathic brand on the
planet is Donald Trump.
Trump understands his audienceunlike anybody I've ever seen
before.
He knows exactly what they want.
He knows exactly what theirproblems are and he tells them
(23:27):
exactly what they want to hear.
Like he is and I'm not.
I'm not saying I'm for oragainst Trump, he's staying in
the middle, but I'm.
I'm planting my flag sayingthere is no more empathic being
on the planet than Trump,because he understands his
audience better than anybodyI've ever seen in my life.
Bryan (23:43):
Wow, that's it.
That is a, an answer I neverthought I would.
I would hear and and I love, Ilove the the controversial
nature in it too.
Yeah, you know I might throwAmazon in there because you know
for the most part you canreturn almost every product
(24:04):
without question.
And when you're talking abouttrust, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, so
that you know, not a lot oflocal stores, or stores in
general, allow easy return, andthey've just managed to figure
it out.
What about imperfection?
Who do you think embracesimperfection?
Mike (24:24):
Embraces imperfection.
Bryan (24:27):
I can say embraces they're, they're intergaler at
Fokker moments, but we'll gowith imperfection.
Mike (24:34):
That's a tough one, yeah, I, yeah.
I'm going to stumble for toolong thinking that.
So just yeah, feed me theanswer there.
Bryan (24:42):
I don't know if there is just one, but you know, like
Dove, dove embraces theimperfection of skin in a lot of
their marketing.
They are advertising thatnonprofits, like you know.
Red Cross, you know, does agood job.
There's a lot of, you know,imperfection, humanity type of
(25:06):
companies that embrace it.
I can tell you, the companythat doesn't embrace all three
is Facebook, or at least in myopinion.
You know there's no simplicityin that brand.
There's not really anyembracement of empathy, and they
try to be.
(25:26):
You know there's noimperfection there.
I mean, it is imperfect,nothing's perfect, but it's
certainly a brand that doesn'tembrace all three.
So, yeah, I think that thosethree things simplicity, empathy
and imperfection are the secretingredients.
When brands or people thatworks for both embrace all three
(25:48):
, it really locks in a higherlevel of trust over time.
Trust isn't built overnight,but it is certainly something
that's a lot faster when youembrace all three of those.
Mike (26:01):
Yeah, for any of us who have advertised on Facebook, we
certainly can relate to thatempathy thing.
I had a client.
We were spending $10,000 a week, which is, you know,
significant money, and we hadour ad account shut down.
And I was the ads manager and Iwas following the rules, like I
wasn't breaking any rules, andI just tried to reach out to
(26:25):
Facebook and I said can you tellme what I did wrong?
And I finally got some answersback that I could just they
could.
There's no way they could reopenmy account, but I could create
a new account.
And I said I'll happily do that, but I'm going to continue
doing what I was doing because Ididn't know I was doing
anything wrong.
So if you could just you know,share with me what mistakes I
(26:48):
was making, you know ignorantly,I'll be sure not to do that in
the future.
But they wouldn't tell me.
They're like sorry, that's likeproprietary information.
I'm like do you want me tospend money on your platform or
not?
Like I want to work with you.
And they were like no, we don'twork with people.
Like we take your money andwe've got enough business that
(27:08):
we're in the take or leave ofbusiness.
Nailed it yeah.
Bryan (27:12):
Nailed it.
Mike (27:13):
It was horrible working with those people.
Bryan (27:16):
Absolutely.
Mike (27:17):
And that's, and so then I also do advertising on Google
and we weren't spending a lot ofmoney but I could call somebody
on Google and talk to a realperson and within his ability,
he would do everything he couldto help me and he was very
transparent and it was such adifferent experience, like
Google on the ad side of thingshad a lot more empathy, because
(27:41):
because I told him like I'm like, listen, dude, I'm new to
Google ads, I don't know whatI'm doing, I need your help,
right.
And he was like, okay, I get it, here's what we need to do.
And he held my hand all alongthe way and Facebook was not
like that.
Bryan (27:56):
It makes a difference, it makes a huge difference and you
know, we'll be more likely tospend a little more of our of
our dollars in a brand that we,we trust.
Mike (28:08):
That's correct, yeah, yeah , so some along the same line.
So like how do we learn how tospeak and market and sell human
to human?
Bryan (28:21):
You know part part of it, a lot of it, is what we just
talked about the simplicity,empathy and imperfection.
There's, there's one moreingredient to how we, how we
talk, and that's that's intimacy.
Intimacy, or as I like to callit, into me, you see, is giving
(28:41):
people transparency into what'sgoing on.
When you add that ingredientinto the three, into the how we
communicate, intimacy is adeepening of a relationship over
time, and and when you peelback that, that proverbial layer
of the onion and and and createmore intimacy with your, your
(29:05):
customer, your, your potentialcustomer, you know like when,
when you have, you know.
There's like this greatconversation that happened with
Amazon on Amazon support, ontheir chat, and this one support
specialist already knew theperson had ordered the Hala,
(29:31):
this book, from Thor, and itdidn't arrive because of his
profile, because of the datathat they had.
And he said may I call you Thor?
And?
And he said, oh my God, yes.
And he said, well, you can callme Odin, okay.
And he said well, odin, though,are having challenges with thy
(29:54):
delivery of thy book.
And he said well, thou muststop that right here and deliver
thy book within within twofortnights, or within one
fortnight or something and andit just went on and the guy got
his book, but it was just likethis, this level of and they
went back and forth and learnmore about each other and
(30:17):
started cracking up and createdthis intimate moment of
conversation in this, this topic, and I just thought, man, that
is just something that AI willnever really be able to do.
I mean, it's just a it's, it'san understanding and a and a
creation of not just intimacybut also humor and and and
(30:40):
deepening the relationship.
The guy you know posted onlineis went totally viral because
that's that's something that thecompany also approves and says
yeah, go create personalizedexperiences, thank you.
Mike (30:55):
So, just devil's advocate now, so many people are now are
afraid of that personalized sideof things and I'll just give
you an example.
So, as we spoke about duringthe break there, my wife works
for the federal government andshe does mostly zoom meetings
and one of the people on herteam so it's big zoom meeting
(31:16):
well, not big, there's like fiveor six people on the call but
one of the one of her coworkersmentioned to a woman on the call
it's like oh, monday morningthat's hair washing day.
I totally get that, because mywife has long, full hair like
you, and I know what an ordealit is to, you know, for women
with hair like that to wash it.
And so, yeah, I see, like thismorning was was hair washing day
(31:37):
.
And he just made that commentbecause he wanted to have that
personal connection and hetalked about like how he knows
about it because of his wife.
But that one was on the other,was, was, was, was on the client
side and she went to hermanager and said you know, I'm
uncomfortable on these calls now.
And so she talked to hermanager and my wife's the
(31:57):
manager.
So that manager talked to mywife and said listen, we got to
do something about this guywho's making these inappropriate
comments on these calls.
And, like I, was looking atyour face and I didn't see any
signs that you thought what hesaid was inappropriate and I
didn't think it wasinappropriate and he didn't
think it was inappropriate.
But it's so hard now where thelines are that we don't even
(32:18):
know exist, and are you everafraid of crossing them?
Bryan (32:23):
Yeah, I mean, you know context is king, right.
So, and the biggest, thebiggest killer of all
relationships is assumptions.
And what I hear happening inthat conversation was an
assumption of where that personwas coming from.
And you know, in especiallyrelationships, when we, when we
(32:49):
don't clear an assumption to you, know it directly or indirectly
, it really can kill just aboutanything faster than then almost
anything else.
An assumption is something webuild on and it gets worse over
time if we don't clear it.
And that's, that's a businessissue, that's that's not a that,
(33:11):
that's an interpersonalrelationship issue and really a
leadership issue, a leadershipchallenge.
And you know, if everybodylearned how to ask more powerful
questions and learn more in thecontext and contextual based
understanding and clearingassumptions, we'd all be better
off.
Mike (33:31):
So what was the incorrect assumption in that dynamic there
?
Bryan (33:35):
I think.
Well, based upon what you weretelling me and what I, what I
know of what you said, it soundslike she or he, somebody,
whoever the person on theopposite end, the lady, assumed
that that was a dig or that wasinappropriate for some.
For whatever reason, she madean assumption that it was a, it
(33:59):
was a personal attack and andand.
So clearing that assumptionsimply by saying you know where,
you know where are you comingfrom, can you tell me more?
Would have probably mitigatedthe whole thing, but staying
quiet and keeping the assumptionto yourself just prolongs it.
Mike (34:22):
Okay, yeah, because I think if you would have just
commented on her hair, thatmight be like a sexual sort of
thing, but he's like I get itbecause my wife it's every
Monday morning, that's her bighair washing day, and I
understand how much work youwomen go through and he thought
it was just a completelyinnocent like let's, we've got
this shared thing.
You wash your hair, my wifewashes her hair and let you know
(34:44):
, we've got this shared bond now.
And like, say, she had someother assumption that we're not
aware of, right, that you knowwe couldn't predict in advance.
Bryan (34:52):
Yeah, totally.
Mike (34:53):
And so it's just kind of frightening.
Bryan (34:56):
Yeah, it's even worse in social media, because there's no
body language.
Mike (35:01):
That's right.
That's right.
That's yes, yeah, yeah.
So what are the fastest ways tobuild trust in a business and
grow your business with moretime, ease and impact?
Bryan (35:14):
One of the fastest ways is speed, you know, speed to
correcting the issue, speed toconversation, speed to customer
support, speed to everything.
And I'm not saying that youshould react.
I'm saying, you know, take,take enough time to respond, but
(35:36):
but but not not creating somuch distance that it it creates
.
It creates more distance.
The you know, when we hear backlike if you get quotes from,
let's say, you know threedifferent contractors to come in
and help you deliver somethingfor, for, let's say, putting a
(35:58):
new roof on the company thatsends you the fastest quote, is
is going to be in the top twothey immediately get a higher
priority of being chosen simplybecause they responded faster.
And so that comes down to youknow structure, process and and
(36:23):
operations.
And the more that you canreally create that you know
within your company, create afaster response mechanism for
everything that you do so thatyou're ready to respond You're
not ready to you have to react,the better, the, the more trust
you're going to build.
It's it really is in speed.
Mike (36:45):
Okay, yeah, like I've mentioned this, this talk I'm
doing is presentation.
I'm doing a month or two and itwas interesting, the, the host
of the, of the mastermind, he.
He asked me for a headshot inmy bio and so I sent it to him
that afternoon.
He got back to me the next dayjust like gushing, saying how
professional I am and how greatit is to work with somebody like
(37:08):
me, and I was completelyconfused.
I was like I don't know, Ithink you're thinking about
somebody else, becauseeverything was saying seemed
like I did something reallyelaborate.
He's like no, I asked you foryour headshot and you're bound.
You sent it to me like a timelymanner and like nobody does
that, like none of the otherspeakers have sent me their
headshots or bios yet.
(37:29):
And so yeah, what you're saying,nowadays it's really easy to
stand out by just being normal,Almost right.
Bryan (37:40):
Yeah, well, normal to you and me, you know, and to people
that you know, or or companiesthat don't have the right
process in place.
You know, I got a tweet onetime from this is when Virgin
(38:02):
America was was around and Itweeted from the airplane saying
I had my coffee, my electricplush and my wifi what could be
better?
And I'm on my way to Florida togive a keynote.
They looked me up and and andthen they responded in kind and
said looks like you're goodbecause it was public knowledge.
(38:24):
They said looks like you'regoing to give a great keynote at
IBM.
We're, we are, we are so gladthat you have all the right
tools in the air to get youthere safely.
And I just thought, and they didthat within like like five or
10 minutes and I was like that's, that's how it's done.
(38:46):
You know, that's how an antiscreenshot it and I put it in my
keynote for the next day.
So not only did they respondwell, but you know I gave them
some airtime as well.
It's that kind of stuff thatjust goes a long way.
It's not just even responding,but putting that added.
Like you know, they didn't knowus speaking at IBM, but it's
(39:07):
public knowledge.
If you do, you do a simpleGoogle search.
Now, all of a sudden it's likewhole.
You just took it to a whole newlevel.
Mike (39:15):
That's right.
That's right.
Yeah, Well, it used to be smallthings.
I think are bigger things nowand and what's interesting and
you said this at the start ofthe talk is that so many
businesses are trying toconsciously move away from that.
They're trying to automateeverything, make everything more
mechanical and, um, yeah, Ithink AI actually might be able
(39:37):
to replicate that eventually,but right now it's not there and
I don't think we should befully automating everything at
this point in the game.
Bryan (39:45):
No, definitely not.
Mike (39:49):
So where do you see AI playing a role in today's
marketplace and maybe movingforward?
Bryan (39:56):
Everywhere and it's just going to grow.
It's funny.
I was on an interview thismorning just talking about how
my first Mac computer it waswhat, a Mac SE or a Mac Plus, I
can't remember, but it had fourmegabytes, not gigabytes,
(40:19):
megabytes and I had a bulletinboard system for anyone who
remembers what that is with adial-up modem, dual band, 2,400
BOD.
And I just sat there and waitedfor any one of my friends who
had the phone number to justdial in and try it out.
(40:39):
And there they were.
There he was my friend Brendan,who typed back and said hello,
and I'm like, oh my god, thefuture is here.
And I'm like this is so cool.
Right Like how many years agois that?
That's like I don't even know.
And now look at us, right Likenow, there's chat bots that are
(41:03):
AI.
Like that's like you know,bulletin board, schmolten board.
Now we've got chat bots and soyou know where is it going to be
everywhere?
Where do we insert the simplemoments of truth that are human?
That's the bigger question.
So right now, it's a matter ofknowing that being human is
(41:28):
actually everybody's competitiveadvantage, because everybody's
automating so much that it's thereverse where, if you stand out
and be more human, and itdoesn't take much.
Then you're going to stand outmore and it's.
You know, it's just that wayand it's going to become more
(41:48):
and more that way as we go.
Mike (41:50):
That's right.
That's right and because Ithink trust is going to continue
to be on the decline, there'sgoing to be less and less trust.
I have a friend, he's apodcaster and he interviewed
Shaquille O'Neal and he gotcomments that people were saying
that Shaq was AI generated,like people didn't believe he
(42:13):
was actually speaking to Shaq,and so that's where the trust is
going.
I guess Shaq kind of talks alittle bit funny, you might talk
a little bit like a robotsometimes and people thought
like this is, you know, you justAI generated Shaq's image and,
you know, cloned his voice andthis was like a completely
fictitious thing, and thatscared me a bit.
(42:35):
You know people.
We used to trust what we couldsee, but now we can't do that
anymore because if it's on thescreen and we're seeing it, we
have no like.
Just look at movies now, likethere's no way you can tell
what's a green like Tom Cruise,he's about the only guy that
actually takes a motorcycle offa cliff.
Bryan (42:53):
I'm a ice man in Top Gun was his voice, was AI generated,
you know, because he couldn'ttalk, because he's got a trachea
in his throat, and so theygenerated they use software to
generate his voice during thatwhole conversation and they took
pieces of his past top all ofhis movie and Top Gun acting
(43:15):
experiences and pieced ittogether and created the voice
that we all heard to do that, sothat he could appear because
Tom Cruise was saying that we'renot doing this movie without
him.
And they're like, well, we don'thave a voice.
And here we go.
I mean, you know, arnoldSchwarzenegger has a podcast out
that is all 100% AI generatedof his voice, but he owns it.
(43:40):
That's the key is he owns it.
He's transparent about it.
So, as long as we'retransparent about AI generation,
I don't see a problem with that.
I see a problem with AIgeneration being for fake or for
, you know, put in place to fakeout people saying like this is
(44:01):
real, that that's, that's gonnahave a bad effect on on every
brand that tries that.
Mike (44:07):
Okay so I think we understand that brands and
business have to be more human,have more empathy, build more
trust, but like what's oneactionable thing that businesses
could start doing today thatwill move the needle for them?
Bryan (44:24):
I would say walk over to your whiteboard, uh map that
just just draw out, grab aperson or a bunch of people that
know your, your journey, yourcustomer journey or your just
your business in general, andjust drop in all the different
places, all the different touchpoints that you have
communication.
(44:44):
Um, just just throw it up on awhiteboard and then take a step
back and say now, where are thehuman touch points?
And then take a step back andsay now, where can we take it up
a level?
If you do that exercise and youjust touch one or two different
places in that way, you will bewinning.
It's just a matter of taking amoment to do that, to make the
(45:07):
human moments of truth matter.
Mike (45:09):
Yes, yeah, yeah, and I quite often do that.
Um, I've lead magnets we allhave lead magnets, right and
I'll quite often, depending onhow I interact with the person
like we all have automated emailsequences, right but whenever I
can, if there's anything I knowabout that person, I will send
(45:30):
them a personal email once I'velearned that little tidbit and
then, that way they know thatthis wasn't an automated email,
because the only way I thatemail could have included that
piece of information is if Iknew them personally and I think
and that always goes a lot Iusually get a response saying,
oh, wow, you're real.
Yeah, crazy, Isn't it?
(45:51):
And yeah, that's good.
Bryan (45:52):
Yeah, I mean, I have a newsletter that I really try
hard to get people to reply to.
That's my number one engagement, uh, kpi and um and uh, and
then I'll take uh the followingday and reply back.
Uh, most of the time in video,uh, all actually out walking and
(46:13):
, and I'll just do my reply as avideo and hit, hit, send and
that just like goes miles.
Man, it doesn't take much,either 10 or 15 seconds.
I loved what you said.
Here's why I loved it andhere's where I'm going with that
.
And boom, people will replyback and go Holy crap, really,
you, you really did that.
Like, that's, that's cool andit didn't take much, right, like
(46:36):
, like, it's as fast as almosttyping out an email, if not
faster, because we're just veryit's easier.
Um, but those are the littlethings that can make a
difference.
Mike (46:47):
Very cool.
Well, thanks, brian.
Um, if anybody wanted to reachout from you or get in contact
with you or get some help fromyou, what?
What's the best way to reachout from you?
Or do you have anything for myaudience here?
Bryan (46:59):
Thanks, man.
Um, yeah, if you go to my site,it's at Brian Kramercom Brian
with a Y, kramer with a K, andthen at Brian Kramer everywhere
on social Um, and uh, you know,if you're, if you're looking for
uh, all of my, all of myarticles, all of my, uh, my, my
bi-week, bi-monthly newsletter,um, I've got um a ton of stuff
(47:22):
to write weekly, so everything'sthere and, like I said before,
if you hit the reply button Iwill reply back.
So, uh, you know, I wouldn't bethe age age guy if I didn't.
Mike (47:32):
Well, very cool.
Well, thanks, Brian, this is,uh, it's great having a
like-minded.
Well, I'm actually, most of myguests are like-minded, but
you're very tightly like-minded.
I love what you've done withage to age.
No B2B, no B2C is that's?
That's amazing.
So, yeah, I really appreciateyou taking the time and sharing
your knowledge with my withmyself and my listeners.
Bryan (47:52):
Uh, thanks, mike.
I really appreciated theheartfelt questions and and the
conversation.
Cheers man.
Mike (47:57):
All right.
Thanks, brian, and that is awrap for this episode of Because
Business is Personal.
Thanks for joining us and don'tforget to take advantage of my
two special offers.
First, you can get a free copyof my best-selling book,
empathic Marketing.
You just pay for the shipping.
Or you can have 50% discount onmy gap analysis session with
(48:20):
the coupon code podcast.
Just head over towwwBecauseBusinessIsPersonalcom
or check the show notes fordetails.
If you've enjoyed today'sepisode, please don't forget to
follow, subscribe, leave areview and share the podcast
with others who might benefit.
Your support means the world tous, so stay tuned for our next
(48:44):
episode, where we'll continue todelve into the intersection of
empathy and marketing strategy.
Remember, because Business isIndeed Personal, every
Connection Counts.
Until next time, see you then.
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