#121 - Golf Digest’s Best Young Teacher: Jake Thurm - Behind the Golf Brand Podcast with Paul Liberatore

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we play golf.
Let me show you how we do it inthe pros. Welcome to Behind the
Golf Brand podcast. I nevermissed with the Seven Iron , a
conversation with some of themost interesting innovators and
entrepreneurs behind thebiggest names in golf. My
friends were the golf clubs. Ilived on the golf course, I
lived

Speaker 2 (00:18):
On the driving rein from Pro Talk . You should
learn something from each andevery single round. You play to
fun from on and off the green.
Why would you play golf if youdon't play it for money? Just
let me put the ball in a hole.
This is Behind the Golf Brandpodcast with Paul Libert tore .
What's up guys? Welcome to theBehind the Golf Brand podcast.

(00:38):
This week I have my good friendJake Therm , instructor
extraordinaire. We're talkingall about his career , uh, the
coaching he's been doing, bothwhere he lives and on the tour
and kind of ways he's up toright now. So welcome to the
show. Thanks,

Speaker 3 (00:51):
Paul. Pleasure to be here.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
So where are you located? So

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Right now I'm located in my basement and ,
uh, so I'm in Naperville,

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Illinois , a basement that's like, you're a
Pebble Beach

Speaker 3 (01:00):
. So as , uh, as Puff Daddy said, I traveled
the world and ah , yeah , yeah. Um , I , uh, my, my favorite
place on earth, and this is,I'm not even trying to be
original or cute . My favoriteplace of any place I've ever
been in the world is PebbleBeach. So I thought when we
bought the house, I was lookingat it down here and I wanted to

(01:22):
do kind of a replica par threeof number seven. Um, you know,
maybe the , maybe the bestshort par three in the world.
Um, but , uh, so I have thatdown here. It's a lot of fun
for the kids. I wish I got touse it as much, but really ,
uh, I have three boys and , um,gosh, if they're not , uh,
wearing out the simulator orwearing out the chipping and

(01:43):
putting green, then uh, I'vedone something wrong as a
father.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
So how big is your basement? Is it big ?

Speaker 3 (01:48):
Um , yeah, it's sizable. I mean, there , the ,
I mean, the part you'd wannaknow is that the bar is over
there next to the arcade game .
Oh ,

Speaker 2 (01:55):
dude. That's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
Yeah. Yeah. So we got , uh, the

Speaker 2 (01:59):
Arcade machines in there too. Look at you. You
like me, you ,

Speaker 3 (02:01):
Yeah . Again, I wish , uh, I wish I played them. Uh
, I know as much, but I justlike looking at 'em. So , uh,
yeah, no, I've got down here.
I've got , uh, I mean, I, I Idon't know how old you are ,
Paul, but , uh, I'm 40, turning45 soon,

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Bro . I'm 45.

Speaker 3 (02:18):
Are you ? So, I , so you'll appreciate this .

Speaker 2 (02:20):
I look 45 . You look 35 . I wish I looked like Jake.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
. So , um, some good jeans . You , you'll
appreciate this. I've got , uh,Atari Star Wars from 1983 over
there. I've got NBA jam overthere. I've got Teenage Ninja
Turtles over there. Golden Tea, of course. Uh, mortal Kom ,
uh, Pacman , uh, asteroids ,uh, Terminator two over there.

(02:44):
So Oh , I love

Speaker 2 (02:44):
That game.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
So, so

Speaker 2 (02:48):
Those , like , those are the best games due to our
generation, like going toArcade. I spent a million
dollars at Aladdin's Arcadewhen I was a kid.

Speaker 3 (02:55):
Absolutely. Uh , and , and you'll appreciate , I
think we've probably lost halfyour , uh, listeners right now,
but , uh, you'll appreciate

Speaker 2 (03:02):
This . Oh , everyone's like us, bro.
They're like, . I'mgonna , I'm gonna go That
dude's the basement .

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Did you ever see , uh, the show Silver Spoons back
in the day?

Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah , the train, the kid The train,

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah. Is the train around the living room. And
then he had an arcade and Isaid, you know what? I , I know
I'll make it when I have anarcade in my house, so that's
sucks .

Speaker 2 (03:24):
My story , my story is my arcade. So like 20 years
ago, my buddy was like, Hey,you wanna build an arcade
machine with me? And I was like, uh, sure. How much is it? And
he is like, oh, it's like 500bucks. We can do it over the
weekend. And I was like, okay,let's do it. And so we like, it
was, dude. It took us two and ahalf months and I bet I spent

(03:44):
two grand, right? Yeah . Like,because once you started like,
I don't want it to look like.
Right? So then it's like, youknow, you build it, but then
it's like, oh, we have to get,like, so then I found all the
original , so I wanted, minelooked like Street Fighter Two
. So I found all the originalstickers, like this is 2002,
dude, like the original,original, like stickers from me
, arcade Machine, the Cabinets,like not remake. And I , from

(04:07):
Street Fighter Two ChampionEdition. I found that like, I
made it like , like the realdeal. But my arcade machine
plays like 12,000 games rightnow.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Yeah . There's a few of them . Some of 'em down here
pay , play , you know, 12, 14games. Some of 'em are just
dedicated. Uh, it's funny yousaid Street Fighter too . I I,
we could talk about this forthe 45 minutes, by the way.
Hell yeah, we could , uh,asking

Speaker 2 (04:28):
Fighter too,

Speaker 3 (04:29):
There , there's two .

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Who's a player ?
Who's your player? Let's askthat question.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah. So there's two kinds of people, right? There's
Mortal Kombat people andthere's Street Fighter two
people. Now, the funniest thingis, if you would've asked me
back in the day, I would'vetold you I'm a Mortal Kombat
person, but I just told this toone of my best friends. So he
comes down here and I go, I'mlike, I gotta get Street
Fighter down here. And he goes,well , I thought you were a
Mortal Kombat guy. And I go,you know, I was as a kid

(04:53):
because of the fatalities andthe blood and all that. And he
goes, yeah. And I go, I go,yeah. I go, have you played
Street Fighter too ? And hegoes, not in a long time. I go,
it's way better than MortalKombat. I mean, and that's all
Mortal Kombat has is is allthat kinda stuff. So that

Speaker 2 (05:08):
All I got, it's like the five buttons are all weird,
like block in the middle,

Speaker 3 (05:12):
Like , what's that ?
Yeah . No street fighter's away better game. I , I just
didn't know as a kid, I justwanted to take someone's head
off. So , um, so yeah, mortalKombat's down here, but , uh,
Paul, you've inspired me. Thenext time we talk I'm gonna
have to have a street fighterto cab down here. Yeah. 'cause
it's a way better

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Game . I , well , I , my marque machine like is
broken right now. 'cause like,this thing's so old, I gotta
put a new monitor in it andlike, you know how hard to find
a monitor that fits the rightsize. Like back then it was
easy, but like now it's allflat panels and. It's like, do
you know, it's like I don'thave time to go figure, man . I
prob I have to figure out howto get a new monitor. Like I
have , get a new monitor. Thelast time I did , I bought some

(05:49):
old TV and like offer her upfrom some old lady and like, it
died like a year later. So nowI have to buy like a real
computer, like a real whatever.
But,

Speaker 3 (05:58):
So it's funny you say that 'cause I have ACRT
over there in the corner

Speaker 2 (06:03):
Terminator .

Speaker 3 (06:04):
So I have ACRT TV and I have all 10 video game
consoles that I own owned, andI have 'em on a switcher. So
you can play all the games ,uh, on a switcher, on an old
tv, on original hardware.
'cause I got a raspberry piethat played on the, the 80 inch
TV over here. Like any game,NES , Sega Genesis, all that.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Yeah .

Speaker 3 (06:24):
But I still like playing it on the original
stuff better than theemulation. Hell

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, dude.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
So , so I got ,

Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's still made . I feel like it's delayed on the
emulation

Speaker 3 (06:33):
And it , and it totally, yeah. Go play Mike
Tyson's punch out on delay. Imean, you're gonna get your
kicked, right? Yeah .

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Seriously.

Speaker 3 (06:40):
So I, so if you came down here and if that's your
jam , uh, I've got the, my 10I, I kept them all, and , and
I'm a little, you

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Have all your old , you all your old consoles.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Oh , oh, yeah, yeah.
No. So there's a wall behind meover here that has, yeah . So I
probably have about 500 NESgames. I probably have

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Shut up .

Speaker 3 (07:00):
No, no, it's all back here. And then I got , uh,
I got, I got a little over ahundred SNES games, probably
about 50. Sega Genesis . I , Iwent back and it had, if I got
rid of it, remember when weused to give it all to, we'll ,
we'll say GameStop, but itwasn't called that as a kid. It
was called Babbage's. But , um,remember you , we give that
all, they'd , we give them andthey give us like two bucks for

(07:22):
it or something like that.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah. The all or 50 cents or whatever. Yeah .
Stupid.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
So I went back , uh, so I had , I still had a lot of
'em , right? But I went backand I got all the ones that I
sold my soul for. And , um, soI have 'em all back. Plus the
ones I, I, I'm , I'm notactually looking to get every
single game ever made, but I, Igot back, well now I'm getting
close, right? But I wanted tomake sure I got the games also

(07:46):
that I really wanted when I wasa kid. So I got that all. And
my, my boys that , you know,there's a PSS five and a switch
and everything, but my boy ,but my boys like the old stuff
too, right? Oh , wow. Theylove, they love like, you know,
super , my my youngest, my fouryear old's upstairs playing
Super Mario three right now. Iguarantee it. That's

Speaker 2 (08:05):
The best game ever.
That's the best game ever,dude. ,

Speaker 3 (08:07):
That's pretty good .

Speaker 2 (08:08):
You know, I , I , I remember in sixth grade, that
game came out and it was summermy buddy got that. And that's
all we did that summer of like1989. That's all we did. Right
? Hundred . That game was like,dude , look at , we took
golf, I was like,this what Nintendo games. So

Speaker 3 (08:23):
I'll , I'll , I'll, I'll , I'll wrap this into
golf.

Speaker 2 (08:25):
No, you don't have to. This is great. This is
great. ,

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Kevin Streelman and I, who's a , a player that I
work with. And it also is onethat I grew up with him and I
you'll love this. Him and Ihave a bet, so I'll try to make
this long story very short. He,he also, he loves it down here.
He just, he tells everybody ontour. And so if you gotta go in
Jake's basement , um, so 'causeof the, and not because of the
, he could care less about theputting green. He is got a

(08:49):
putting green, right? He'slike, you gotta go down there
for the arcade . So he gets hisson, his youngest son, this
little handheld , uh, Contragame, right? Contra one I ,
yeah , yeah. Contra one . Andso the original, so he goes, he
goes, have you played that? Igo, oh, Kev . I go, I , I play
contra a few times a year. Andhe goes, I, I go, I saw that

(09:12):
handheld. I go, I didn't buyit. I go , 'cause I have it and
I can play it on so manydifferent things. I go, I go,
how is it? How , how's the gameplay? And he goes, oh, it plays
really good. I go, oh, cool. Igo, it does the con the konami
code and all that kind ofstuff. And he goes, no. I go,
oh, the handheld doesn't do it.
I go, that's la uh , I go,that's a tough game then. And
he goes, oh , that's

Speaker 2 (09:33):
Super hard. It's impossible, dude. So three
lives,

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Right, Kevin? Kevin goes, yeah, it's impossible.
And I go, it's not impossible.
I go, it's just really hard.
And he , he looks at me like,he goes, are you saying you
could be contra without thecode? And I'm like, yeah . And
he goes , uh, yeah . I I Iassume we could swear on this,
right? Yeah . He's like. Hegoes. And I go, I couldn't do

(09:58):
it. I , I , I go, I go, I haveto get some prep. I, I go, if
you're asking me to do it rightnow in front of you, I go, I
need some , I need to practicea little bit. I go, I go. But I
used to, I go, I used to beatit all the time with the co I
got bored with the 30 lives .
So I challenge myself . I go, Iused to beat it all the time
without the code . And he goes.
So I'm like, so right now himand I have a hundred dollars

(10:20):
bet and I am currently intraining to , uh, so the next
time he's in Chicago, I onlyget one shot. So I'm going to
like sit down and , and I Oh,

Speaker 2 (10:31):
You die. It's over.
Yeah. You'll get one shot. And

Speaker 3 (10:33):
I , right . I get one shot in front of him . Well
, I will die, but I, I justhave to beat it without the
code. I'll definitely die a fewtimes. But , uh, and the , my
only stipulations was, allright , if I'm gonna do this,
I'm not playing it on anemulation with a delay. I'm
playing it on my tv on myNintendo

Speaker 2 (10:50):
With my control.
Yeah . Right. Yeah .

Speaker 3 (10:52):
And I go and I go and I'm gonna be a hundred
bucks richer. So I'll let youguys know how that goes.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
You got me a freaking , you gotta make a
reel of that or something.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, a hundred dollars bet. A hundred dollars
bet . And , uh, no code. I getthree lives. And of course ,
and of course as you go, you doget extra lives as you get
scores . So just no code beatcontra.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Oh, I wouldn't know that because I always cheated.
So like, I don't know , , I didn't , I didn't know
that. So,

Speaker 3 (11:17):
Yeah, so it , the funny , the funniest thing is
everybody now that knows that alot of my clients know that bet
and stuff. And so they go,how's it going? And I go, eh ,
I go, I keep dying in the enenergy zone . So , so I
actually haven't done it yet.
The , the the eight nine yearold me is very disappointed in
my performance thus far. 'causehe was way better than I am

(11:39):
now.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Yours . That documentary, that guy who
wanted to beat the record oflike, what was it, like, what
game was that? Like Donkey KongKong ,

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Uh , donkey Kong Kong . King of King of
Quarters. King of Quarters.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
Yeah . King of Quarters .

Speaker 3 (11:51):
Yeah . But didn't ,

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Did they say the dude cheated or something? Like
now they're saying like a yearago it was like an article,
like the dude cheated or he hadan emulator or something. I
don't remember. Everybody waslike, what?

Speaker 3 (12:01):
Right. Yeah. So they take that stuff really
seriously. And uh, he had it inhis, the documentary. And
there's another guy in it that,the guy that , uh, had the, the
perfect package . The

Speaker 2 (12:11):
Guy who looks like a wizard.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
Yeah. He cheated.
The guy with that originallybroke a million on Donkey Kong.
Uh, I , I don't think wasaccused of cheating, but I , I
can't remember the name , otherguy , but the guy that looks
like a wizard who had theperfect score in Pacman , uh,
yeah, he cheated. Yeah. He hadnever ,

Speaker 2 (12:29):
I like , have you seen that documentary? I did
not think this conversation daywas gonna go like this
. So did you see that? Did yousee that documentary or that
thing on Netflix about thevideo games? Like the five part
series about video games

Speaker 3 (12:40):
That made us

Speaker 2 (12:41):
Oh , everything so freaking good .

Speaker 3 (12:42):
I loved it.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Loved it . I watched like twice. I was like, oh , I
remember that. I love thatgame. Oh , I remember

Speaker 3 (12:46):
My , my favorite moment this year. So like I
said, I have a , I have anoriginal Pacman over there. I
walked into an , we went toDisney World for the family,
and I walked in and they alwayshave the arcade at the resort,
you're saying . And there itwas sitting in the, in the
back. No one's touching itbecause they got all these
other better games.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
Right . The prize machines. Yeah. And like the,

Speaker 3 (13:07):
Right. So I, I go, I go, you know, I just go back
there and I'm like, I wonderwhat the high score is. Right?
And then I saw it and I'm like,oh , I could beat that. Right?
So my , so in front ofmy, my son filmed it on my
camera. I'm like, Tristan, Icould beat this high score. I ,
you know, I can, I do it athome. I I have a way higher
square at our home thing. So Idid it like live while he

(13:29):
videoed it. And I, and , andagain, it's not any good for
people who are really good, butit's pretty good for, you know,

Speaker 2 (13:37):
Champion Disney World Hotel.

Speaker 3 (13:39):
That's what I'm saying. Yeah. That's an animal
.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
It's nine year hotel . It's a four year old . It's a
four year old Jake Thera notthe nine year old .

Speaker 3 (13:47):
Yeah. So the , so if you see the high score at the
Pacman, at the Animal KingdomHotel, whatever they call that
place , um, bro ,

Speaker 2 (13:54):
I'm gonna go there tomorrow. I'm gonna fly to, to
Florida and beat that. That's

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Me just to like , dad . Oh , well, you let me
know. And then I'm coming back because I screwed up at
the end.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
. Anyways , back to golf.

Speaker 3 (14:08):
Mm-Hmm.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Do what ? Do what happens? I mean, you know, you
know, this guy's cool if he hasthat whole freaking thing in
the basement, . I mean,

Speaker 3 (14:15):
Like,

Speaker 2 (14:16):
You know, his wife asked to be cool too, to let
him do that, because otherwisehe'd be like, oh, hell to the,
no , I used to have the arcademachine in the house, and she's
like, forever at that , at apool table. And she's like, no
, we're gonna move that outtahere. And I was like, all
that's fine. Whatever. But Imiss play mar

Speaker 3 (14:32):
E every , every wife is cool. Uh, as long as you're
not married to them. You knowwhat I'm saying?

Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (14:41):
I I , I have cart blanc in the basement and in
the garage, and I have no inputon the rest of the house. I can
assure

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Were you lucky you have a basement? I wish I had a
basement. Like, honestly, I ,like, everyone comes in my
garage and like, oh man , yourgarage is so cool. And I'm
like, did you see the rest ofmy house? Like , I don't wanna
do anything anymore. like , you know, but like , but
pre-kids, you did, like, youhad your own room, probably
your own. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Then once you have kids, they're like, no , you
just, your stuff gets smallerand smaller and it gets moved
to an area and you're just

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Like hundred

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Percent main . Yeah .

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Yep . It helps having three boys here. It is
kind of, for my wife, it iskind of man land , uh, with ,
with three boys all in sports,golf being one of them, but
hockey and baseball and allthat kind of stuff. So yeah, it
, I mean it's, there's a , likein their rooms, it's all sports
theme . It really is man landfor my wife, so she can have

(15:32):
How old

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Are , how old are kids?

Speaker 3 (15:34):
I have a , a 12 year old, a nine year old , and a
four year old .

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Oh, wow.

Speaker 3 (15:38):
So I'm home. I'm home right now with the four
year old . And like I said,he's upstairs playing right
now, so he'll be occupied whilewe do this.

Speaker 2 (15:46):
That's cool. Yeah. I have a , I have a 13 year old
and a 10 year old boy. I haveboys too, so I know what it's
like. Cool.

Speaker 3 (15:53):
Yeah. But

Speaker 2 (15:53):
My wife likes having boys. She's like, oh, I love
being the only girl in thehouse. I'm like, thank God I
freaking girls. My buddy has adaughter, dude. I'm like, oh,
there's no way I could handlethat. Like, there's just no way
I could like, I'm like , Idon't know how you do . I don't
know , man. He is like this.
Then we went on vacationtogether and he was like, bro,
you're so lucky of kid . Youhave boys. He's like, it's so
much easier. I was like,

Speaker 3 (16:14):
That's what they say. That's what we were, I , I
, I'll be honest, we weretrying , uh, 'cause there was a
delay between the nine year oldand the four year old . Right.
We, we , uh, we were trying fora girl on the third, but
ultimately I can only hit oneball flight, apparently.

Speaker 2 (16:30):
Oh , darn.

Speaker 3 (16:31):
Yeah. So ,

Speaker 2 (16:33):
You know, you went like this, you're like, yo ,
, you gotanother boy . I
remember when I had my son,like my dad and I high five
each other. Like, we saw whenin the , during the ultrasound,
we like high five . Like yeah,we got boy, you know, not like,
yeah. But , so, all right . Didyou grow up in Illinois then,
or what?

Speaker 3 (16:52):
Yeah, so grew up in the , just outside Chicago ,
uh, in

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Naperville.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
I , uh, so I live in Naperville now. I actually ,
um, I grew up , uh, apart halfthe time in Westmont Downers
Grove , uh, went to DownersGrove South out here, 97. And
then I played , uh,

Speaker 2 (17:12):
Shout out.

Speaker 3 (17:13):
I played , yeah, yeah, there you go. I , I just
had my reunion. I'm , uh,ashamed to say , uh, I think it
was 25 years, whatever it was.
Um , you went to it , so . Oh,yeah. Yeah. I, I like
, bro .

Speaker 2 (17:24):
I went to my 10 and I was like, I don't wanna see
these ever again. I care.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Uh, it , it does help that you're all connected
probably on social media orsomehow, so you kinda a little
bit caught up to speed, but ,um, you know, I, yeah, I , no,
I like going to that. It's ,uh, it's like you ever see the
movie Romeo and Michelle's highschool reunion?

Speaker 2 (17:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (17:45):
Like , you know , you , you , I , I like all the
people that go there and tellyou that they in invented
post-Its, and like that. I likeall the lies. So , um, I'm a pe
you know, I'm a I'm a coachman. I'm a people watcher by
nature. So I thought I wouldhate it, and I actually loved
it. And , um, yeah, so shoutout there. And I, I played ,
uh, I played golf all throughhigh school. I played golf in

(18:05):
junior college, and , uh, uh, Iall finished my undergrad at a
small school in Illinois calledMilliken in Decatur. Uh, got my
degree in , uh, clinicalpsychology as it applies to
child and adolescent psych. And, uh, you know, played on the
golf team there. And my mindwas always , uh, you know, so I

(18:26):
was a child abuse investigatorat DCFS, and then I was a
respite worker for the DuPageBoard of Health. And , um, you
know, I just , uh, it was hard.
That's a very hard profession.
Um , oh yeah . You gotta bepretty tough. Yeah. The , the
stuff that you see on a dailybasis is, is really , uh,
tough. 'cause then you gotta goback and reconnect into your

(18:46):
own life. So people in thebehavioral sciences are
willingly taking on otherpeople's problems to go with
their own. So it , it wasreally difficult. So it kind of
brought me doing that for alittle bit , uh, brought me
back to golf and I thought the, the thinking was, well ,
obviously I just wanted to helppeople. So , uh, I was a decent
player , um, so why not , uh,help people through golf, and

(19:10):
maybe that'll be a little biteasier than , um, than, you
know, kind of what I waspursuing at the time. So , uh,
I started learning from a lotof great mentors , uh, many of
which are in the Hall of Fame.
You , you said , uh, earlier.
Jim McClain was on , uh, uh, alittle bit ago before me. And ,
uh, he certainly has been a, agreat friend and a , and a

(19:31):
mentor and someone I very muchlook up to. But , uh, Dr. Sutty
, Bob Toskey , Jimmy Ballard ,um, macro Grady, all these Hall
of Fame teachers I got to spendaround. And, and then a lot of
the, a lot of, I guess whatI'll call my peers , uh, have
been very kind to me over theyears. The Harmon family's been
great. Claude Harmon iii , SeanFoley , um, you know, all the ,

(19:53):
uh, quote unquote su superstarsin golf instruction. Um, you
know, it's funny, it , it's acompetitive business and it's a
competitive environment, but ,uh, I guess I've always kind of
managed to do that , um, and berespectful. I've, I've always
believed that you can't coachall these players, so don't
even try. So , um, they kind ofknow , uh, e either that or

(20:15):
they're not threatened by me.
So I guess that would be theother other thing. So ,
um, yeah, no, I've had a lot ofgreat mentors and friends that
has helped me out along theway. And I'm not a big believer
in a self-made man. I mean,any, you show me any self-made
man, and I'll show you a lot ofpeople that had their back that
believed in them. And if , uh,you know, if anybody out there

(20:36):
is listening and, and theydon't feel supported by those
that are around them, then get,get different people around
you. You know? So that's,that'd be my advice in general.
Yeah. So

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Then what year did you start like, getting serious
about golf again?

Speaker 3 (20:54):
So, you know, I, obviously my own game , uh, I
don't play that much. Um , I'mon, anyone that follows me on
any social media channel knowsthat I'm pretty much relegated
to a par three player with mylittle guys until they hit it
further. Um, so , uh, but interms of when I started kind of
picking golf as a career , um,that would've been right outta

(21:16):
college around 2002, 2003. Uh,though I was interested in
instruction, I was alwaysinterested in instruction.
'cause I used to, as a kid, Iused to watch, there was a
local, it was my, it turned outto be my junior coach. It was a
local pro who , uh, had a lotof good junior players. And I
would always get donepracticing, you know, hitting

(21:36):
500 balls a day, chipping andputting for, you know, 2, 3, 4
hours. Uh, and then waiting forthe course to open up again and
going out and playing. So inbetween, you know, you eat your
sandwich or whatever, and Iwould just watch him teach, not
because I was trying to gleanmore information. I actually
never thought I figured if hewas talking to that person, it

(21:57):
really wasn't for me. It wasfor that person. Yeah . And ,
uh, so I , uh, I was alwaysamazed at how somebody could
make a suggestion and thensuddenly , uh, there'd be a
change in the ball flight. And,and then there'd be a change in
the golfer's demeanor, right?
So then there'd be like, oh,you know, so that they'd be,

(22:18):
you know, happier or, or at atleast less sad. And , uh, and ,
and because there's, there's aglimmer of hope, there's an
opportunity here. So , um, Ithink a lot of great teachers
probably wasted a lot of theirtime. And, and the reason that
they're great teachers now isthat people come to them , uh,
with their expertise in how notto waste their time. So, in

(22:42):
other words, if they're goingto truly do this, if they are
gonna dedicate the time, thenuh, time is valuable. It's the
only thing we can't buy moreof. So , um, so if you are
gonna dedicate the time, agreat coach, probably with
their own game, wasted a lot oftime, and what you're really
purchasing , uh, from them ,your return on investment is

(23:03):
that you won't waste your time.
Uh, you know, the very littlethat you have. I mean, mo I do
teach professional golfers, butI mostly teach professional
people and professional peoplehave careers, families, all
this kind of stuff. So they're, they don't , a lot of time ,
They don't have a lot of time.
So they have to maximize it,maybe even more than APGA tour

(23:25):
player who's going to industryleaders work 10 to 12 hour
days. Right? So that would beAPGA tour player. So APGA tour
player for 10 to 12 hoursactually could , uh, in theory
, um, not maximize that time,but still have enough time to
overcome that. Whereas aprofessional person , um, they

(23:46):
have , you know, they play oncea week, they get to the range
once a week , uh, for an hour.
And , uh, ultimately what arethey going to do? You know? So
it's really maximizing the timethat they have towards
improvement and making suretheir goals align with , uh,
you know, their , their , their, the amount of time they have,

(24:07):
but their current skillset ,where they're at, and , uh, you
know, where they'd like to go.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
So like, you got outta college. Mm-Hmm .
. And then ,Mm-Hmm . . Were
you working in the otherprofession first, or you, and
you were just golfing, gettingback into the game, right?
Like, 'cause you're just forfun, right? Or your hobby, or
whatever it was. And then whendid you say like, you know, I
had enough of this serious,right? Like, and what does

(24:33):
your, your probably your , yourown mind right, to deal with?
Like, when did , what your ,when did you decide to like,
you know , I'm gonna try to dogolf, like maybe instruct,
like, how'd you go through thatprocess?

Speaker 3 (24:45):
Sure. So , um, I, I never really stopped playing
outta college. I , as you know,my game was pretty good outta
college. 'cause I, I justfinished college golf

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Who to college at ,

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Um , Milliken University in Decatur. So , um,
I played as an amateur. Iplayed in the state amateur
multiple times. I played in thestate open multiple times as an
amateur. So I was stillplaying, I was still playing
competitively , um, you know,making the cuts in those events
, uh, and so on. So , um, uh,after that, so what made me

(25:18):
kind of decide was, was really,maybe it was had nothing to do
with golf. Um, it had to dowith, you know, one of the, the
, the darker things that I hadseen. And , um, I won't get
into that, but , uh, I will sayno .

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah . Traumatic,

Speaker 3 (25:33):
Right?

Speaker 2 (25:34):
It's

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Like , yeah , I don't really bad

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Too heavy stuff.
Like

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah , yeah. Really heavy stuff. And , and the
funniest thing is my mom askedme, she goes, you know, she
goes, I , I , I tried toprotect you from all of that.
And, and there you are goinghead first right into it. You
know, it almost as if to say,what did you expect? So , um,
yeah, it's, it's wanting tohelp people. Uh , the funniest
thing is I never set out toteach PGA tour players. I

(26:01):
actually just wanted to workwith juniors. Like I said, my
degree was in child andadolescent psych. So , um, I
only wanted to , which mighthelp me with tour players when
you think about it. But , uh,but I, I actually just wanted
to work with kids, and that'swhat I was doing as a respite
worker. A respite worker workworks with mentally ill
children, the top 13% ofmentally ill children in DuPage

(26:22):
County. So basically goes, allright , so what, what are you
doing with them ? I go, well,it's basically a mentorship
program. You are doingactivities, but you're being
there with them , uh,connecting with them and being
a good example for them . Sothe funniest thing is I go,
well , why, why can't I do thatwith juniors? You know, that
wanna be good players? 'causeby the way, with the kids that

(26:43):
I worked with in the respiteprogram, guess where a lot of
the times that we went to, I'dtake 'em to the driving range ,
or I'd take 'em to even minigolf . I'd take 'em to , uh, a
par three course , and we'd goout there and it was a great
opportunity for them to put thedevices away. They're gonna
spend two hours with meanyways, and just to move,

(27:07):
walk, and talk, right? So , um,it was kind of this, yeah, it's
this, in it's uninterrupted ,uh, uh, flow of communication.
And , um, you know, I don'twanna overstate my own
importance, but I , uh, in , inthis regard, I , I will say
that I, I found it in mostcases to be very positive , uh,

(27:30):
with the , with the kids that Iinteracted with in that
program. And I, I, I found golfto always be a positive. They,
they become very cur , youknow, when they get connected
to you and stuff, they becomecurious about you. And I would
be like, well, you know, Iplayed golf in college. And
they're like, well , eitherthey had played or they had
wanted to play or, or show meand all this. And so it was

(27:52):
always a positive there. And,you know , uh, in their lives
that was, you know, there was alot of negative. So , uh, I
just wanted to do that withjuniors. So I , my whole goal
was not to teach tour players ,it was to have one of the best
junior programs in the Midwest.
That was it. And then we had ,we started having a lot of
success with juniors , uh, youknow, state titles , uh, and

(28:14):
high school

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Was this , this is like, like , what year was
this?

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Um, you know, we , I started having it , it , it's
very fortunate, right? Istarted having success local ,
locally pretty muchimmediately, even though my
clientele base wasn't enormous.
The funniest thing is if, if a,if a junior showed any ability,
I really took a interest inthem . So , uh, I didn't have a

(28:39):
huge clientele. So I would take'em on the golf course and play
with 'em. I'd practice with'em, I'd write out their
practice plans. I'd say, go dothis. I would have them. And
then all of a sudden, you know,they , there was college
scholarships coming for a lotof my juniors. There was , uh,
trophies coming for a lot ofthem , uh, Illinois Open , uh,
Illinois Women's open , uh,state high school, state

(29:01):
championships. A few of themgot one back to back , um, D
one college, college , uh,college scholarships. So , um,
I started having success rightaway. And the funniest thing
is, it was actually mostly myfemale players at first. Um ,
and then it just turned intojuniors in general. And , um,
you know, and that when youhave success with players , uh,

(29:24):
it really starts, it plants theseed. That's your marketing,

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Right ? It's working like it's working at the end of
the day. That's what peoplewant. They want it to work,
right? They're , they're , so ,it's like they're , you don't
have to go market yourself.
It's ,

Speaker 3 (29:36):
They're , you're , I tell

Speaker 2 (29:37):
Who you're is doing it.

Speaker 3 (29:38):
Yeah. I , I tell this to instructors all the
time. They're like, you know,tell me something about
teaching that maybe I haven'tthought of. And I said, okay. I
go, do you, do you , uh, chargefor your time? And he, they go,
yeah, you know, I, I chargewhatever, and it's per hour,

(29:59):
right? I have an hourly rate.
And I said, okay, well, did itever occur to you that they're
not actually paying for yourtime? They're paying for an
outcome, they're paying for aresult? And did it ever occur
to you that you could achievethat result in five minutes and
not an hour? I go and I go,case in point. I go, have you
ever been involved in a lessonwhere, you know, right away

(30:20):
they just, you know, they starthitting it better and this is
what they should be working on.
But you look at your watch andyou've got 50 minutes left, and
they go, yeah, all the time.
And I go, so why do they need50 minutes? left? Uh,
and the answer is, because yousaid that that's what they pay
for. I go, I call it results.
Uh, it's solution basedlearning, right? So it's all

(30:43):
results based . So what I kindof started to do back then was
because I was achievingresults, I realized that's all
people wanted. Now, sometimes,maybe it's not five minutes,
maybe it's, and maybe it's notan hour, maybe it's three
hours, maybe it's whatever,maybe it's go onto the golf
course with the client, stufflike that, course access and
stuff like that. But that'swhat they're paying for.

(31:03):
They're paying for a result,not for your time. And I always
tell people, I'm not that funto hang out with unless it's
down here in my basement. So ,um, you know, we're , we're
here to make players we're,it's better people through
golf, but it , uh, but thebetter people play better golf.
So once I feel like that isaccomplished , um, you know,

(31:23):
it's time to go to the nextperson. And I completely admit
that I, that I , uh, took thismodel or this, I originally got
this thought from being aroundBob Toskey , who is 94 years
old and still teaching. BobToskey would line up on the
driving range back in the day,in the seventies and stuff,
he'd line up these people on adriving range. They would pay ,

(31:45):
uh, to have to, to eventuallysee Bob Toskey , though they
didn't know what time , uh, tohave lunch, to have all these
golf balls. And they just hit,and then in that line would be
a rank beginner. And in thatline might be Tom Kite, right?
So , um, and then the funniestthing is you didn't know when
Bob, he's like, you saw Bob .

(32:06):
He's right down there . He isworking with person three
people down. But you know, youdidn't have a time that you
were gonna see 'em . You justknew you were gonna see him .
And it wasn't based on time, itwas based on result. Um, in
other words, once he felt likehe got it, okay, good. Now go
to work. Right? Like, do itright, because if I'm gonna ,

Speaker 2 (32:28):
You know , what , do now go do it a hundred times,
right ? Or a thousand times.
Like,

Speaker 3 (32:31):
Absolutely. Like o other than that, it's all
filler. It's all fluff. You'rejust filling the air because
you're stuck on this clockwhere you got, it's like, oh, I
got hour , 45 minutes. What amI gonna say now? You know? So,
and the funniest thing, let's

Speaker 2 (32:45):
Go , let's go put . Yeah,

Speaker 3 (32:47):
Exactly. Well, and, and maybe that's the , maybe
that's the answer. It's like,all right , you got a good
idea. All right , cool . Ilearned a long time ago where
people go, you know, I alwaystell people, Jake's a four
letter word. Go ahead and useit on the course if you wish.
I, I always say, but if youtell them I'm thinking too
much, I go, I want you to listthe thoughts that you have. And

(33:09):
when I started cha challengingthem, they're like, oh , I ,
I'm thinking too much. Okay,good. Um, only a golfer would
find focus to be innatelynegative, right? And any other
sport, we'll talk about thefocus of Kobe Bryant, but in
golf, apparently, if you havetoo many thoughts, you're too
focused, right? I don't believein such a thing. So I always, I

(33:29):
would challenge the golferright back. They say, oh , I'm
thinking too much. Great. Okay,tell me, listen them , well,
what, no . List all yourthoughts. And I , what I
realized was the first one ortwo, which they were probably
saying, 'cause I was standingthere , uh, the first one or
two, I had something to dowith, and the next three or

(33:49):
four, we had never had thatconversation before, ever,
right? And they were hangingonto this like, it was gospel.
And then finally I get to thepoint where I'm like, you know,
why don't you just give me thekeys on that? And then what do
you mean? Well, it sounds likeyou're trying to fix five or
six things. I just wanna workon one thing that perhaps will

(34:12):
show improvement on five or sixthings, right? It's, it's ,
it's approachable. It'sdigestible, and you can do it
as long as that's all you focuson. So are you thinking too
much, not enough about theright thing, right? And you
can't

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Fix everything at one time. You have to like,
pick the one thing and youcould maybe fix 'em all. Like
you're thinking of itdifferently.

Speaker 3 (34:35):
Multitasking is the biggest lie. We've all been
told. Multitasking isessentially , uh, be kind of at
everything. , right? Wecan handle all , but what ,

Speaker 2 (34:47):
Okay , what ? But what if you have ADD , right?
And you're like, oh , I gottado 50 things at once, then what
happens? It's like, okay, whatdo you do in, that's generic
scenario.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
We're it to quote Bill Murray, we are always
better when we are calm andfocused at anything. And, and
on what I'm saying on onething. Yeah . When

Speaker 2 (35:04):
You're in the zone, it's all you're thinking about.
Not all that crap.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
Exactly. So a great teacher, and I get, I get a lot
of people that , um, you know,they research me, but they've
also research researchedeverybody. They have what I
call rabbit ears, right? Agreat teacher , um, uh, gets a
, a client to focus only on onething, and then , uh, the rest

(35:29):
of it could be importanteventually, but it's extraneous
in this moment and un andcompletely unnecessary, right?

Speaker 2 (35:38):
It's like, offers are worried about like what
they're gonna do three shotsahead , right?

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Instead

Speaker 2 (35:42):
Of worrying about the shot they're taking right
now. Like, oh, what if I hit itin the sand? And then this
happens? Like, bro, you've, youhaven't hit the driver yet.
Like, how do you even knowyou're gonna hit in the sand?

Speaker 3 (35:51):
Right? It's , uh, it's, you know, it , there's,
there's a lot of power andopportunity. So , uh, if you
wanna be known as having icewater in your veins, right?
Actually, I don't believe inthat at all. 'cause I've seen a
lot of my players shake like aleaf. Um, but it's, it's the
power of opportunity. Like Idon't care how tight the

(36:14):
fairway is, or I don't care howlong the putt is. Um, all you
need to do in that moment isask yourself, is it possible to
hit this fairway? The answer'salways yes. Uh, is it possible
to make this putt? The answer'salways yes. And if that's your
last thought, then go, right?

(36:37):
And I'm not guaranteeinganything, but I will , I I'm
not gearing any teeing ,guaranteeing anything except
that all you actually trulyhave in golf is the execution.
That's it. You don't actuallyown the outcome. If you, if we
could control our outcomes, wewould, and we'd all shoot 65,
right? But all you have trulyis the execution. But people

(36:59):
deprive themselves of theexecution through worry,
through , uh, uh, again, whatthey tell you is thinking too
much. I consider actually to bea lack focus on one sole
purpose.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
I didn't think about it that way, but I , I mean , I
agree.

Speaker 3 (37:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
You know, it's like for me, if I'm out there
thinking about my, what , howare my feet set up correctly?
Am I da da , da , am I da da da? You start going through all
these like checklists of thelast 30 years of your life, of
what you've been told what todo. And then you go and dork up
the shot because you werethinking about those 30 things
that just hitting the ballbecause your body already knows
what you , 'cause you'vepracticed a thousand times,

(37:38):
right ? Um,

Speaker 3 (37:39):
One of my favorite books for people that still
read , uh, if anybody out therestill reads I do , uh, is , uh,
came out in the last few years,it's called , uh, chop Wood
Carry Water . And it's , uh,basically the way to become a
samurai Archer. And for thefirst year of that guy's life,
he gets to learn how to breatheand how to stand. And , uh,

(38:00):
basically it's all based on atrue story , uh, written by the
author. So , um, it's

Speaker 2 (38:06):
Based on Jake's Jake's life, because Jake

Speaker 3 (38:08):
Well, it , there, there was a lot of,
there was a lot of parallelsthere. So, you know, through
that first year or two, he'ssitting there going , uh, do we
ever get to shoot any arrows ? Yeah . You know, and
, uh, it , so basically , uh,the , the answer always is that
, um, chop wood carry water washis daily tasks. And they said,

(38:30):
yeah, you will eventually, onceyou , uh, kind of master the
simple, once you master thedaily and, and, and we'll get
to shooting arrows, whicheventually they did, but the,
the first year was , uh,standing and breathing, right?
So the funniest thing is whatyou just said there. You're
like, wow , how are my feet,I've been told about my feet?
Well, then that's a person thathasn't dedicated enough time to

(38:54):
execute, to master the simple,where they obviously still find
the need to have to think aboutit. Think about this. I'll
challenge you with this. Why inthe world would you have a
swing thought? I'll, I'llanswer it for you. 'cause you
don't trust yourself enough todo it without it. So you are
actually training mistrust andthen wondering why you don't

(39:16):
perform up to yourcapabilities.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
You know, it's funny you say , I kinda remember when
I was , I used to be a pilotback

Speaker 3 (39:22):
. Oh, yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
And I remember an airline pilot told me once we
were talking about sh shootingapproaches, and he was an
airline p for a big airline.
And he is like, you know, you ,you have gauges and you have
your lines and whatever you'retracking, whatever. And he
goes, he's like, he's like,it's kind of like when you're
driving a car, he's like,imagine you're driving a car

(39:43):
and you see the lines on theroad. Are you staring at the
lines the whole time to makesure you're on the road? Or
like you just know it's there.
You know, it does its thing.
It's like, you gotta think ofit the same way. It's like, if
you were focused so much onthose lines, you'd probably
crash the car. But if you'renot, you're just focused on
flying the airplane, right? Andthen glancing down to see, to
make sure you're still ontracking . And the same thing
you're saying right now, it'slike you have to trust when

(40:03):
you're driving a car, you'retrusting yourself. Like, I'm
not gonna drive off the road.
Right. And I'll stay in mylane. But you're not focusing
on staying on your staying onthat line, right. Or inside
that line. It's like, I mean,it's a good way of thinking
about that.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Uh, how many times have you missed your mouth
while eating?

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Never. Well,

Speaker 3 (40:23):
,

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I'm sure it might say differently. .

Speaker 3 (40:27):
Yeah. So , um, you know, it , it , it , we should
actually , um, reach the pointof automation on certain
things. Um, and people don'tallow that to happen. You know,
the , the , the process ofmastery , um, unfortunately ,
uh, we are in very much , uh, aquick fix and , uh, uh, an an

(40:52):
immediate , uh, result , um,and , and right now, right? And
we're not taking the stepsnecessary to become masters. So
that's the , I , when it , whenwe talk about my career and
stuff, I , I am very happy withthe , the , the fact that I
don't feel like I ever cut acorner. Um, and , um, and

(41:14):
basically being around the guysthat I named before, who I
would consider to be masters,trust me, I didn't spend the
time in front of them speaking.
Right. And I think there is a,a generational thing if we can
date ourselves again, wherethere's a, a lot when you're
younger, you feel the need tolet, to try to inform everyone

(41:39):
about what you know. And if, ifI did anything right back then
when I'm around these people orcontinue to be around these
masters, is that it doesn't malike, the only thing I could
possibly know would come outtamy mouth, but everything that I
could learn would be goingthrough my ears. So I just

(41:59):
never felt the need to speakuntil spoken to , uh, when I
was around these people and Iwas absorbing. And I learned
way more , uh, yeah. Watching,but I, I learned way more over
drinks at , at the bar andtalking about a , a , a golf
school that we had run, or aprogram that we, or , or a
private lesson or a tour playerthat had come in. And , um, and

(42:23):
the funniest thing is I wouldalways ask leading questions,
kind of like your job, right?
I'd ask leading questions toget them talking, and that's
when I did the most learning

Speaker 2 (42:33):
What , like for the audience out there, like who
have you worked with on tour?
Sure . Because you spent a lotof your career working on a lot
of tour players.

Speaker 3 (42:40):
Yeah. So , um, uh, the roster is always ever
changing, but , um, of

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Course, yeah . The ,

Speaker 3 (42:46):
The guy and, you know, and then sometimes you
work with a guy, but he is justlike, ah , you know, he is just
kicking the tires . So theguys, I feel very comfortable
telling you , kicking the tires. Yeah. Kicking the tires ,
right? Might

Speaker 2 (42:57):
It's like , yeah .
It's like , like , yeah ,they're row . He's like, oh,
yeah.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Might've been a guy this past week too that did
that too. But , uh, the onesthat feel, yeah, the ones I
feel very good at , these are

Speaker 2 (43:08):
All the ones that are , Reagan flew halfway
across the United States andwas gone for a week.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
Yeah, yeah. Drinking wine too. So, yeah. Uh , uh,
the , the ones that I'll, I'llsay that, you know, that I
consider to be very goodfriends, clients, all that ,
uh, Kevin Streelman , James,Mark Wilson, Scott Gregory, Tim
Petrovic , Dudley Hart , uh,chip Beck , um, golly, who

(43:33):
else? Uh, oh, I'm forgettingpeople off my page. No , that's

Speaker 2 (43:39):
Fine. That's

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Cool . I was , yeah , uh, uh, Roberto Diaz , uh,
Vince India . Um, you know, andthen the funniest thing is ,
uh, that's all my own guys,right? Yeah . But when I was,
when I was kind of mentoringunder these great masters , uh,
like I told you, I , uh, Ispent a lot of time and I, not
only talking, maybe playingnine holes with, you know, I

(44:01):
spent a lot of time around ,uh, Lauren Roberts, Paul Inger
, Fred Funk , uh, rock ,immediate . Wow . Um, uh, you
know, all , all these, allthese fine players from

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Margin Yeah. From the guys we watched when we
were right.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Peter Jacobson.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
So , uh, so I, I've, I've either been involved with
them early on, you know, thisis going on 20 years ago now,
back when they were playing,but , uh, a lot of 'em , I used
to, after their lesson orwhatever, with whoever they're
going with , uh, they'd wannago take it on the golf course
and see if they can do it. Sothat , that's the funniest
thing is, you know, when youwatch how they conduct , uh,

(44:40):
their lessons , um, it reallyshows you kinda what's wrong
with how amateurs go about it.
'cause they always wanna getsomething that usable that they
can take to the course almostimmediately. Uh, Nick Faldo is
another name. I spent time withNick Faldo on a body track and
case in point. So he had neverseen his pressure trace before.

(45:02):
So , uh, and I , I'm sittinghere going into this thing
going, oh my gosh. I go, youknow, I'm gonna talk to a six
time major champion. Oh , bythe way, we're squares, right ?
Uh, I'm gonna talk to a sixtime major champion. And here I
am, the Woodridge Junior Openchampion in 1996. And , uh, I
believe he , uh, won themasters that year. So I'm like

(45:24):
, uh, I'm gonna get figured outin a second. This guy's like a
modern hogan. Um, you know, soI got a bone up. I gotta sound
really smart, you know, this islike seven, eight years ago now
. You're right. I'm a smartguy. Yeah. I'm the young, like,
I'm gonna get figured out. YYyou really quickly , uh, you,
you have that feeling ofimposter syndrome, right ? So ,

(45:46):
um, that's all time, right? Sofunny way , right? So , uh, it
depends what room you're in,right? Um , exactly. So , so I
, I , I think you're in theright room if you get that
feeling. That's what I wouldtell you. If you don't have
that feeling, you're in thewrong room. So , um, you're,
you're with the wrong people.
But , uh, so anyways, with him,I, you know, what I found is I

(46:08):
found that he was very eager tolearn that this was brand new
to him. And that when it cometo that, when it came to that,
I was an expert and , and hewas eager , um, I thought he
would want it very technically.
That's how I will always wastold by the media. He is always
so technical. He is soanalytical. And then, you know
, uh, to, to make it simple, II want a little bit more of the

(46:33):
pressure in his lead heelsooner , uh, as he, you know,
transitioned into thedownswing. So , um, I said
something along that line, andhe goes, you mean like squash a
bug? And I go, yeah, but don'tanger it. Kill the. And he

(46:54):
goes, okay. So he does it alittle, and, and obviously this
is how good these guys are,right? A little something. He
goes, I can do that. And hedoes it, trace, cleans right up
on the pressure mat, and hegoes, I can do that. I can go
play with that right now. Sothe funniest thing is I thought
he was, so what I, what Ilearned about Faldo is yes,
he's very, he, he analyzeseverything, but we, but

(47:18):
remember, he's a player, so heanalyzes everything, but he
will convert it very quicklyinto a feel that then he can go
perform. Um, he is not doingthe theory of relativity over
the golf ball. He has, he hasanalyzed something and, and
converted it into somethingquite simple that he can do in

(47:40):
the moment in front of peopleright now. And that's what
great players do, right? Uh, Iif , if if analyzing and
knowing everything and havingall the information , uh, made
you a great player, then allthe best teachers would be the
best players. And were not,Nick Faldo took something
complicated and made itsimplistic so he could go play

(48:04):
immediately. And that's thegenius of Nick Faldo .

Speaker 2 (48:09):
So, like, the way Jake and I met was through
Squares and like, can you kindof tell the audience like how
you were introduced withSquares and like why you wear
squares and, you know, kind ofyour background with what
you're talking about right nowwith Jake, with , uh, sir Nick
, like the same thing, like,can you explain to the audience
that please?

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Sure. Um, so , uh, one of the, the first major I
ever coached in , uh, was the,the British Open at Hoy Lake
when Roy McElroy won , uh,almost pretty much going away.
Uh, and , uh, one of my greatfriends is , uh, always been
like a , like a big brother tome, has been Sean Foley . So,

(48:51):
you know, when you first getout there, and this is my first
major and your player'soutperforming or whatever,
you're probably gonna go havelunch with somebody that you
know. So I knew him. So we satdown and , uh, it was 2014, if
I'm not mistaken. And I believeJustin Rose won the US Open in
2013, if I'm not mistaken, atMarion . I noticed something in

(49:14):
his statistics , uh, and we'rebig, you know, golf nerds in
general, but statistical nerds. And I noticed that he had put
on basically the equivalent of10 accurate yards, meaning ,
uh, he was longer, but hisaccuracy numbers were the same,
if not better, and , uh, offthe t . So , uh, I mean, that's

(49:38):
huge, right? Yeah . So I, I, Iask him, I , I go, what do you
equate that to? He could havesaid anything. I mean, he , he
could have said that it's anopen-ended leading question to
get the, the master speakingright? So , um, he, he said ,
uh, he could have said, hecould have said anything. He
could have said, well, me, youknow, my teaching, it could've

(49:59):
said fitness, nutrition , uh,you know, rest recovery. It
could've said anything. And he,at that moment, there was
something called a swingcatalyst, and , uh, it was a
force plate that was in theground. Um, and he said he had
gotten him on force plates andthe changes that they made were
more in the ground and notreally truly detectable by the

(50:24):
camera. So I thought that waslike, and this is, once again,
this is kind of like, like liyounger Jake watching a golf
lesson when he was a kid,right? Uh , this is like magic,
right? I was like, wow. So, sothe thing that changed was not
detectable. I go, well, gosh,isn't that, isn't that really

(50:44):
what teaching should be ? Right? Um, in other words, I , I
kinda like it when , uh, myplayers perform well and people
can't figure out what the heckwe're doing differently, right?
So , um, so I was very enthusedby that. So what I did is I saw
that the swing catalyst forceplates back then, I want to say
were 30 or $35,000, and Iwasn't inclined at that point

(51:07):
to purchase four spikes . No ,

Speaker 4 (51:10):
I'm not buying that.

Speaker 3 (51:11):
Yeah, right. I wanna ,

Speaker 4 (51:13):
I got RK machines to buy

Speaker 3 (51:15):
There , there we go.
So , um, which are way cheaper,. And so , uh, uh, at
that point , so, so what Ithought was, well, it's okay if
I don't own this, but I do haveto have an understanding of it.
I have to have a detailed,thorough understanding of this,
of what I'm doing to better,you know, better myself as a
teacher. So , um, what happenedis a guy by the name of Terry

(51:38):
Hashimoto came out with aportable alternative to force
plates in the ground, and itwould be a pressure mat . So ,
uh, and that's what hebasically was the pioneer of
Body Track . Uh , and that cameout of a company in, in Canada,
and he's Canadian, so he sawgolf applications. Now, body
Track also got me connectedwith , uh, the PGA National

(52:01):
Teacher of the Year . MarkBlackburn , who's a great
friend of mine , uh, SashaMcKenzie, who's one of the
game's leading researchers bodytrack , got me access to these
people and again, asked them aleading question and then just
be quiet and let 'em go, right?
So I learned so much, it , itreally felt like an Ivy League
education would con came toground reaction forces as I was

(52:24):
original owner of Body Trackand the only guy that was using
it out on tour at events. So ,um, fast forward , uh, uh, Bob,
who you had on your show , um,who's the , uh, you know, the ,
the founder of Squares , uh,got in touch with Terry

(52:44):
Hashimoto, and here it is,there's this company that's
saying, well, listen, how youinteract with the ground is ver
is important , um, that your ,your shoes are a piece of
equipment. It's not just afashion statement, right?
You're, you're using this toperform. It's a piece of
equipment you use on everysingle shot. And from our

(53:06):
testing, their testing, right,they're seeing , um, noticeable
change in ground reactionforces. So , um, I, I was aware
of that. I saw it, I saw thecommercials with Nick Faldo .
Uh, Bob got to know Terry.
Terry goes , uh, why don't wehave Bob send you some shoes?
You use the , uh, force platesand, and tell us what you

(53:27):
think. So I did, and it was anoticeable change. Um, the
increased surface area of theshoe certainly helps with that.
Uh, the stability of the shoecertainly helps with that. Um,
and so I was noticing , um,some things in my own pressure
trace , um, and ability tocreate force torque , uh, with

(53:48):
the ground that that waschanging, and that was, you
know, very positive. So , um,yeah. So from that, that moment
on , I, I honestly just askBob, I go, these are great. Can
I have some shoes? ,right? I , I didn't really
think it would go where it'sgone, right? Uh, it's just a
good relationship. I like theproduct. I said I would

(54:09):
definitely play in these , uh,there's a lot of shoes that you
wear that you know you canteach in, but I would never
play golf in them, right? So ,um, yeah, so that's how the
relationship started. And thenthey started this Squares
branded , uh, golf academy thatI'm in with , uh, Jim McLean ,
uh, I believe Rick Smith is inthat and so on. And, you know ,

(54:32):
uh, it's great because they're, you know, creating brand
awareness, but it's alsosomething that , uh, that you
believe in. And to be honestwith you, when you Google me, I
mean, you're going to find avideo or an article or
something on ground reactionforces. So honestly, it was a
perfect fit. Here's a piece ofequipment that aids , um,

(54:52):
people when they use it, andtheir ability to create force
with the ground, which would,can lend itself to speed. And ,
um, I'm sorry, everybody. Hey ,I love this golfer, right? I
love this golfer. This is myfavorite. It's like , uh, I
already hit it straight enough,I just need to hit it further.
I already hit it far enough. Ijust need it straighter. They

(55:12):
both need hit it further. Um,because putting on distance
gives you accuracy, and Ican't, for the life of me, I
can't figure out why amateurscan't figure that out, right?
Um, if you are longer off ,golf is a game about
subtracting distance from thescorecard on the hole , on the,

(55:33):
on the round. So I, I had a , aclient recently that got fit.
And so I , I guess what I'mtelling you is most amateurs,
most club level golfers shouldonly make decisions based on
distance. That's it. Um,because they will be more,
everyone better than them islonger than them , right? And

(55:56):
when you increase yourdistance, so case in point,
this is a great story. Um, Ialso work with Club Champion ,
uh, locally where I send a lotof my clients there where they
get fit and I work , uh,personally with , uh, the
fitter , uh, uh, couple of thefitters in there where they
know me

Speaker 2 (56:14):
Dial your dial in your player, like you know
exactly what they need andyou're Yeah , makes sense.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
You have to have that relation. I learned that
on the PGA tour, you have tohave the relationship with the
club company because you, you,you both can help each other to
help the player. So , um, Ihad, I had a , uh, client go ,
uh, he went in for an ironfitting and stuff like that.
And , uh, I said, Hey, didn'tyou have your fitting? Oh,
yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh, notdidn't yet. When they come in,

(56:41):
I , you know, I just decidednot to, not, not to get 'em, by
the way, totally fine, becausewith my dealings with them, if,
if they can't build somethinglike better, then they, they
like flat out tell you like,listen, you just keep playing
those for right now. I can'tbuild you anything . Yeah ,
keep your money.

Speaker 5 (56:57):
You don't need anything me right now. Right.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
And that's what I love about it . just

Speaker 5 (57:01):
Need to become a better golfer.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Right? Exactly.
That's what I love aboutdealing. They don't give the
hard sell, right? Yeah. Um, soanyways, I go, oh, I , they ,
they couldn't make you anythingthat, that was better. And, and
he goes, well , uh, no, youknow, well, you know a little
bit. I'm like, well, how much,or, or , or how far are we
talking? It was only like fiveyards further. And I looked at

(57:22):
him and I go five yards. Hegoes, yeah, each club, like
each iron going five yardsfurther. Yes. I go, okay, so
here's the thing. By the way, ascratch golfer jumps all of
this . This guy is not ascratch, obviously judging from
his assessment. Um, so I, Itold him, I go, listen, let's

(57:45):
say you're a scratch golfer,which he's not. I go, let's say
it. I go, so that's 40 fullswings and a round of golf to
shoot 72. So he typically 70shoot 72, 40 full swings. In
those 40 full swings. Let's sayyou are five yards longer, each
swing five yards longer and amiss five yards longer and a

(58:05):
make five yards longer, 40 fullswings, 200. I go. So by not
taking , uh, by not gettingthose clubs, you are electing
to play a course that is 200yards longer on tour, a 200
yard par three typically forthe week plays over par with

(58:27):
the best players in the world.
So you are playing a longergolf course on what would be
deemed a and from 200 yards.
Your average PGA tour playerhits the green less than 50% of
the time. Really ? So you arein a game about 48, 40 9%,
right? So , uh, just under ,uh, best players in the world,

(58:47):
this guy is not. So he iselecting to play a 19th hole
and not the good ones, not theones that are over at my bar.
He's electing to play this,this ma this mythical 200 yard
par three that he didn't knowwas in his , uh, that he was
electing to play a magical

Speaker 5 (59:04):
Hole that just

Speaker 3 (59:04):
Showed up, right?
That just showed up as he tellsme that he would like to shoot
lower. If you'd like to shootlower, then you need to play
the course shorter. Uh, inother words, everybody goes,
well, yeah. So they go, well,you know, you know, this is

(59:25):
like my pet peeve.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
They know everything .

Speaker 3 (59:29):
They , they're like, well, you know, when I swing
too fast , uh, you know, andI'm sitting there going too
fast. I've got you on flightscope right here. You just
swung your driver 87 miles anhour. At what point are you
gonna get fast ? I go,you're not, you're not fast,
dude.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
You know , bro, you skyrocket that ball, that ball
goes like one 90 at yourdriver, like you're not,

Speaker 3 (59:47):
Right ? See , 'cause if going slow made you better
at golf, then the best playersin the world would swing at the
slowest. But they got Cameronchamp swinging 130, and I got
this guy swinging 87 miles anhour telling me, yeah, every
time I get fast, it gets bad. Igo, when are you gonna get
fast? Like, this is not fast. I, you know, you look like you

(01:00:10):
were on pause. So everybodygoes, well, you know, when I
swing fast , you know, the ballgets more crooked. And I , I
said, you know, here's aninteresting thing. Everyone,
including Rory McElroy willprobably take the most penalty
shots in a year with hisdriver. And there is no
guarantee that you will hitevery fairway at the distance

(01:00:34):
you are. So you might as wellhit it further because if you
hit it further with actuallythe same amount of dispersion,
you are already better at golf.
And by the way, you're , youseem to think like everyone
that swings slower doesn't hitit crooked, and they hit their
driver crooked too . But whenyour driver's crooked that day,

(01:00:56):
you could hit a three wood ,you could hit an iron and you
could put yours out withtheirs, with less club. And
here's the other thing is youguys could be at the same
distance because you backed offyour driver just for today have
the same distance in the hole ,but you're still longer than
they are. 'cause your two clubsshorter than they are . So at
one 50, you're hitting nineiron and they're hitting a six

(01:01:19):
or a seven who hits moregreens? You don't get closer to
the green at the amateur level.
You don't get closer to thegreen to necessarily , uh,
decrease your proximity to thehole , which will happen. You
get closer to the green, so youcan't possibly it up and miss

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Yeah , you can't miss a shot. Exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Like , like , so even on a shot, you're
disgusted with, maybe you stillhit the green, you

Speaker 2 (01:01:47):
Can still save it and you still get it next to
the hole,

Speaker 3 (01:01:49):
Right? So it's a , it's a bold assumption. This is
why I also think no amateur inthe world should ever lay up on
a par five. The re the realreason they lay up to a full
wedge is because they don'tknow how to hit a 60 or , uh,
uh, a 40 or a 50 yard shot.
That's really why , oh , I liketo lay up to my full wedge. All

(01:02:09):
right , good. What , well ,what yard is that? Yeah. Yeah,
exact never, never, like anyamateurs listening don't ever

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Yeah .

Speaker 3 (01:02:17):
The , the gay you are , you are accept , you are
willingly adding yards back tothe card . You were like, no ,
no , I'm good. Uh, you know ,go ahead, tax some more yards
on that. And then wondering whyyour handicap doesn't you lower
. Here's why you should neverlay up. So it's like, all right
, so what's your favoritedistance? You know, if people
tell me a hundred, a hundred,520, whatever , uh, you know,

(01:02:38):
my, my pitching wedge or mygap, we , it goes one 20 . So I
like to lay up to that. It's myfair club. Alright , cool. So
in 2000 when Tiger played thebest , uh, golf statistically
that's ever been kept, wedidn't have a lot of statistics
with Nicholas or Hogan,unfortunately. So when we did
on Tiger, so in 2000 from 120yards, tiger missed the green

(01:03:00):
won out every five times. Sothe greatest player playing the
best he ever played, missed thegreen, won out every five
times. Why the hell are youlaying back to 120 yards
willingly? How many times areyou going to miss the green
with your quote unquotefavorite distance and favorite
club? Really? It's actually notthat. It's their , uh, they're

(01:03:21):
demonstrating their lack ofskill from different yardages.
In other words, even if youcan't reach the green,
statistically getting closer tothe green should be a lower
score. It is on the PGA tour ,um, from 30 yards off the green
to 70 yards, so 30 yards,they'll get up , uh, they'll

(01:03:42):
average 2.3 shots from 70yards. They'll average 2.7
shots. So closer means lower ,um, except at the club level,
because they don't know how tohit those shots. They don't
want to tell you they don'tknow how to hit those shots,
and

Speaker 6 (01:03:56):
They don't wanna learn how to hit those shots
either.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
They don't wanna learn how to hit those shots.
That's , yeah . And , and sohere's the other thing. It's
like, well, Jake, who caress, I, I'm just gonna lay up ,
that's fine. But the problem isthat you think you're gonna
avoid those distances becauseyou've elected to lay up . What
about on punch shots ? Like,I'm sorry that , you know, this
is a 19 handicap, you'retalking , I'm sorry. Do you

(01:04:19):
never hit it in the trees ?
Well, yeah, obviously I hit itin the tree sometimes. Okay, so
when you punch out up near thegreen, because that's all
that's available to you, younow have a 30 yard shot . So
why did you think you weregonna avoid that? Just because
your strategy on fives is tolay up. You should never lay up
if there better be like out ofbounds left and right , um, for

(01:04:41):
you to ever, or, or somethingthat is a force carry in front
that would make you, you know,you cannot, and by the way,
amateurs don't know how farthey carry the ball, but they
cannot carry that. So thus theywould have to lay short of
that. But the strategy shouldalways be this, it should be to
subtract the most distance onany given hole on any given

(01:05:04):
shot, because that'sstatistically over the macro
view. Okay? Everybody goes,well, I did that and then I hit
it out bounds. Yeah , yeah ,you can do that. You can hit it
out of bounds. It , it , it'stotally in the realm of
possibilities. I go, if I gaveyou a small bucket, would you
have hit 'em all out bounds?

(01:05:24):
No, you could have mishit theout of some of 'em right down
the middle of the fairway too.
Couldn't you have ? Yep . Okay,so I'm talking, I'm not talking
one outcome to one outcome. I'mtalking a macro view of your
game, right? So given enoughopportunities, given a hundred
times of doing it, it isabsolutely statistically the
play in order to produce thelowest shots. And your handicap

(01:05:49):
is an amalgamation over time,not over one round, right? And,
and so the , my, one of my petpeeves is people that tell me I
have great course managementskills and I , uh, and them
telling me this, and I go,interesting. I go, okay, so ,
uh, do you think, do you try tohit it down the middle of the

(01:06:10):
fairway? And they go, yeah. AndI go, that's not a good course,
man . That's not good coursemanagement. I go, do you try to
hit it at the middle of thegreen? They go, yeah. I go,
that's not really good coursemanagement. Um, and then, you
know, and then you got theother guy who's, you know,
aiming right at the pin . AndI'd tell you that's not very
good course management. Sothere , there's these systems
we use decade with our kids andour tour players. There's a

(01:06:32):
system out there thatmathematically shows you the
way , way to play. It's notthat hard to learn. And the
funniest thing is the peoplethat don't take the time to
learn it. I always say, youknow, the reason the buildings
are so big and bright in Vegasis because of people that
didn't, that refused to learnthe odds in which the game that

(01:06:54):
they were playing. So they makeall their money off of you and
your buddy in the NASA everyweek who maybe knows this but
won't say it and has a muchwhole lower handicap. Uh, they
actually have a fundamentalunderstanding of what the game
is actually asking them to do.
And that's why you can neverbeat 'em .

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
Is that about course management ?

Speaker 3 (01:07:14):
It is .

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
And not hitting short on purpose. So the guy
never bought the clubs. Hestill never bought the clubs.
After you talk

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
, well talk , I

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Bet he did. After that, you're like, all right ,
I'll go buy the clubs, youknow, listen, tight, wide , go
buy the clubs.

Speaker 3 (01:07:30):
, right?
Most places throw the fittingin for free. And I'm sorry, I
don't care if it's three yardsor five yards, it's three yards
or five yards each swing. Andthat over time do ads up so
fast and around

Speaker 2 (01:07:41):
That's like free .
You're gonna, you have toreduce your , your handicapped
out . I mean, seriously, fiveyards a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
So people are very amazed with our junior
programming, in our case inpoint, a fundamental
misunderstanding of actuallywhat produces results. I had a
, uh, father come up to me ,uh, this was this past summer,
and his and his son is verygood, and I don't want, you
know, the names will be changedto protect the innocent. I

(01:08:09):
don't wanna embarrass hisfather because this is what ,
how a lot of people think. Um,so he goes, yeah, he is really
struggling with his irons. Canyou take a look at 'em ? And
I'm like, well, I always take alook at 'em . I go, but yeah, I
, I go, I go, he played in atournament, he struggles . I ,
I go, I'll talk to him aboutit. How about that? He goes,
yeah. And I go, by the way ,uh, you know, this is a junior

(01:08:30):
golfer, right? I go, whatirons? And he goes, well, like
his four iron . And I go, I go,okay. I, I go, I go, how about
this? I go, how about I justhave him hit more drivers
today? And he goes, he goes,well , you're not gonna look at
his four iron . I go, I go,there's two scenarios here I

(01:08:51):
go, so your scenario is that Igo look at his swing and I help
him with his for iron , whichhe might show some incremental
improvement. And maybe hestarts , he might

Speaker 2 (01:08:59):
One time around, right?

Speaker 3 (01:09:01):
Right. So , um, so I go, so maybe I help him with
his for iron , right? And it'sa young kid, right? Li little
at 12 years old, 13, I go, somaybe I help him with his
forearm and he gets a littlebit better with his forearm. I
go, how many forearms does hehave in around ? Now you said
it perfectly because if thiskid was older, it would only be

(01:09:22):
once, twice around, right? Sothe funniest thing is the dad
was kind of ready for me there,and he is just like, well, see,
that's my point. He, he, hehits his four iron a lot, a lot
more than other kids. So that'swhy we got work on it. And I
go, so if I fix his four ironor his five iron or his three
iron or something like that,and he hits them better, I go,

(01:09:43):
he'll still lose to the kid whohas wedge. He'll still lose. I
go, so what he really needs todo, and what's not gonna happen
immediately, but we'll , uh,but I promise you will happen
over time, is he needs to keeppounding drivers getting
faster, hitting it further. Sohe has wedge too . So I always

(01:10:05):
tell parents this , uh, becausewe only work with driver wedge
and putter, that's it. I don'tcare about six irons. I really
don't. Um, I, I tell 'em , ifyou know how to start the hole
and you know how to finish thehole , you'll figure out the
rest in between. And those arethe kids that hold trophies. So
we can fix your four iron, butyou still won't win.

Speaker 2 (01:10:24):
It's like, it's almost like, but it's all the
things you've learned throughyour career. And then it's like
also working with kids, it'slike all the same stuff, you
know what I mean? Right . It'sjust you're older, I mean, or
you're younger than they, thanthe , than the person. Like ,

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
And , and by the, by the way, guess what? Dad's,
because I don't work with dad,so guess what his theory is, is
that every time faster , he'stalk about that 25 handicap,
right ? Faster . He a 25handicap. Yeah . Faster. He
gets more crooked. So he thinkshis son should operate with the

(01:10:59):
handbrake on. So ultimatelyit's like he's a 20 handicap,
and by God, my son's gonna be a20 handicap because that's how
we think and that's how weplay. And you swing too fast
whenever the shot goes wrongand all that kind of stuff. I'm
always trying to break thecircle. So that's dad's belief,

(01:11:20):
right? But I'm trying to breakthe circle and start something
new in that family where it'skind of what happened in my
own, no one in my family playedgolf. So if you wanna know
about someone that wasted theirtime or that truly went with a
lot of the gospel beliefs thatstill circulate in the game, it

(01:11:43):
would've been me because Ididn't have anyone guiding me.
But , uh, it's always fun towork with the families that
like have four or fivegenerations of scratch players
and stuff like that, becausethey don't say, they don't say,
like, like, like that father,right? Oh , he, you know, if he
could really start hitting hisfor iron , if he could hit his

(01:12:04):
for iron , what, like ,like what is that? What's that
gonna

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
Four iron ,

Speaker 3 (01:12:09):
Right? So, so here's the , here's the interesting
thing, right?

Speaker 2 (01:12:14):
Um,

Speaker 3 (01:12:15):
If you hit one more green in regulation, you
average one and a half , youhave the potential to average
one and a half shots less perround. If you make one more
putt per round, that's, this isreally easy math for me. You
average one less shot perround, and by the way, you
gotta make that putt everysingle time. Okay ? So if you

(01:12:36):
make one more putt, one shotless, you gotta do it every
round. But if you hit one moregreen, potentially one and a
half shots less, it's moreimportant to hit the green. How
am I gonna get these kids toget more green? Very easy. They
need to have shorter clubs innot four . Oh ,

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
Like the one thing I'm trying to do with my son
who's 10 and like, yeah , he,like , he played baseball, but
like now all he wants to do isplay golf, which is, and I'm
not pushing it good , right ? Iwasn't like, oh , you need to
play golf. Like, he just wantsto play it. But like, I just
tell him like, don't listen topapa. That's my dad. 'cause
he's what the he's talkingabout. And like, I got an
instructor, I got an instructorwho works with juniors who I

(01:13:15):
know is really good, and I'mlike, excellent. You listen to
whatever he says, you doexactly what he tells you. I
go, if you and I go play, I'mnot gonna tell you what to do.
We're gonna go play on fun. Andthat's it. Because I know the
opposite of that. Because ifyou listen to, you know, if you
, I , I'm not, I mean, I'm a15, right? So I'm like, and I'm
, I've been going down, I was a25 last year and I'm a 15. I'm

(01:13:36):
trying to go down like singledigits in this year, but I've
got instruction. So it's likeall that crap in your head
about what you think, you know,you don't know. So like, I
would rather start him young,get the instruction that I know
will help him be a betterplayer. If he wants to do that
and he doesn't wanna do it,that's fine too. I don't care.
But I mean, I'm gonna try togive him the opportunity to

(01:13:58):
like at least achieve thatgoal. And if, I mean , he loves
it. So I think it's ,

Speaker 3 (01:14:04):
It's the only player, the the only player
that you've gotten to yourlevel is yourself. Yeah. And
then what, what I wouldchallenge people with is it
might be despite your beliefs ,uh, being a coach means tearing
down walls and presentingopportunities. There's a lot of

(01:14:26):
people watching this orlistening to this that have
these stone cold beliefs. Andbecause of these beliefs,
they're very limiting. Andunfortunately , uh, they're the
obstacle in the way of theirown improvement because they
believe that this is the waythat they , it should be done.

(01:14:47):
And as a coach, I alwaysbelieve in another way. So ,
um, a lot of the times, again,people are, we're, we're, you
know, we're, we're surroundedby knowledge at, from every
source, but, but we kind ofthirst for wisdom. I, I get a
lot of people that are quoteunquote educated on the topic

(01:15:09):
of a golf swing, but they're sonarrow-minded that , uh, the
funniest thing is what they'retrying to do. They can't one do
themselves. So I find myself alot of time going, yeah, yeah,
no, totally makes sense andthat would be good for this
player, but not you. So , um,you have to as an instructor to
understand patterns and youhave to recognize it's pattern

(01:15:32):
recognition. If your clientcan't do it, more than likely,
not only were their handicappednot go down, but they might
actually run the risk ofgetting physically injured as
well. So , um, I'm sorry ifsomebody's just like showing
you Rory McElroy or, or Justinwrote , that's a really easy
lesson to give by the way. Justput you next to Rory and say,

(01:15:54):
he's good. You're not. Do whathe does. I'm like, well, yeah,
you know, I'm a Chicago kid. Iguess you could have gave me a
basketball and said, Hey, goplay like Michael Jordan'll be
back in 45 minutes. I mean,it's, that's a lesson, man. The
funniest thing is, the problemwith the lesson is it didn't
include you and he referencedRoy McElroy and he ain't here

(01:16:15):
either, you know? So that'strue. An instructor has a great
instructor has to tear downthese gospel limiting beliefs,
tear down these walls, or atvery , at the very least,
present a door where it's like,yep , that's true and that
player can do it, but thisplayer, but that's not you and

(01:16:37):
this is what you can do. And bythe way, we can find great
examples of that as well .

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
No , it's really cool. So where can people find
you?

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
So the best way to reach me is , uh, obviously my
social media channels is atJake the Goff . But , uh, you
know, I try to have all thosedirect , uh, you know, you get
so many dms and all that stuff.
And then I, I have, I havesomebody that helps me with
those, so it's always directing'em towards my website. So the
best way to reach me is jaketherm.com .

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
And then what do you, on your website, what do
you offer to ,

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
So we, we do that, that's the best thing. So if
you click on instruction , um,you'll get lots of different
options there. And again, ifyou can't see me physically in
person, there's some onlineinstruction there. And there is
, uh, there's, in-personinstruction, there's group
instruction, there's team , uh,prac , uh, building the USA

(01:17:32):
junior national team, which I'mthe Midwest director of. That's
what I told you. My whole goalwas to have one of the best
junior programs in the, inChicagoland area or Midwest. So
, uh, we have a lot ofdifferent teams at a lot of
different locations, andanytime I'm in town, I, I
actively work in my ownprogramming. So , um, so if I'm

(01:17:54):
not out on the PGA tour, I amusually, I, I do have adult
clients that I give privatelessons to . There's no
question about that. Um, but Iam usually actively working in
my own programs, especiallywith competitive up and coming
juniors. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:07):
Well, I really appreciate you being on the
show today . Had a lot of fun,man. I know we went along , but
like we dorked out for like 30minutes on our K games and
, mostpeople don't talk about that,
like ever. And I'm like, wait,what? Like, that's , I don't
know , I keep out on that stufftoo. But , um, I really
appreciate you being on theshow today, and you guys have
to check out Jake's stuff. It'sreally cool. Um, and obviously

(01:18:30):
you guys know he knows whathe's talking about. Um, but
thank you again and I will seeyou guys in the next episode.

Speaker 7 (01:18:37):
Thanks for listening to another episode of Behind
the Golf Brand podcast. You'regonna beat me and golf stay
connected on and off the showby visiting golfers
authority.com. Don't forget tolike, subscribe and leave a
comment. Golf is always morefun when you win. Stay out of
the beach and see you on thegreen.

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#121 - Golf Digest’s Best Young Teacher: Jake Thurm

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#121 - Golf Digest’s Best Young Teacher: Jake Thurm