January 30, 2024 • 44 mins
Canadian journalist Vassy Kapelos joins Aaron Pete to discuss her path into journalism, passion for politics, the importance of balanced reporting, and her expertise in navigating challenging interviews with political figures.
Vassy Kapelos, based in Ottawa, is currently hosting CTV's "Question Period," "Power Play," and the national radio program "The Vassy Kapelos Show" on iHeartRadio Canada. With a career highlighted by multiple awards including two Canadian Screen Awards, she has extensive experience in political coverage, having previously hosted CBC's "Power & Politics" and served as Global News’ Ottawa Bureau Chief.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Aaron Pete (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger
than Me podcast.
Here is your host, aaron.
I am a huge fan of theinterview process and asking
tough questions, and I remain astudent of the game, trying to
understand how people approachthis.
Today I have the privilege ofspeaking with the host of CTV
Powerplay and Question Periodand the host of a daily show on
(00:22):
iHeartRadio.
My guest today is VashiCapellos.
Vashi, it is such an honor tobe sitting down with you today.
I am so excited.
I find that I learned so muchfrom individuals like yourself
who are specialists at the workthey do.
But would you mind first justintroducing yourself to the
listeners Of course.
Vassy Kapelos (00:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
First of all, I'm reallyexcited to be with you.
My name is Vashi Capellos.
I host a couple of shows on CTVwhere I kind of serve as the
chief political correspondent,so those shows are entirely
political in nature.
And then I also host a radioshow on the iHeartRadio talk
network across the country everyday two hours in the middle of
(01:02):
the day, which is a bit morebroad.
So it has a lot of politics,but it also has a bunch of other
stuff as well.
And yeah, that's it.
Aaron Pete (01:10):
Would you mind taking us back to your origin
story?
When did you start to becomeinterested in politics, the
political process more broadly?
Vassy Kapelos (01:19):
So I sort of joked that I came by it
genetically or by birth, becausemy parents met at a political
convention years and years ago.
My dad actually ran in politicsat one point unsuccessfully,
but ran and so I sort of wasborn into an environment in
which politics was just a partof life and talking about
(01:40):
politics was a part of life.
So by the time that I was bornmy parents were not politically
active, but they were certainlypolitically interested and
inclined and, more broadly,beyond just politics, super
interested in current events andnews.
We had multiple newspapersNewspapers are still a big thing
then delivered to our houseevery day, even more on a Sunday
, for example, in Toronto, inthe neighborhood I grew up in,
(02:02):
and they just talked about it alot and so I sort of absorbed it
, I think by osmosis that way.
And then as I became more awareof what's going on and I started
reading the paper myself at akind of embarrassingly young age
and sort of being interested invarious leadership, elections,
and I remember watching on TVwith my parents and then
elections, elections, like itjust sort of I grew up with it
(02:26):
as a part of who I am and sowhen I was starting to think
about, like what do I want to dowith my life and what do I
enjoy?
I was in such a privilegedposition to be able to think
about my career path based on mypassion or the things that I
like in my life or that I'minterested in, and so it just
sort of eventually seemed like anatural fit.
Aaron Pete (02:47):
It's funny that you say that, because I too actually
with a friend, we would readthe newspaper in middle school
and talk about the issues andwhat was going on, but in school
we were actually considered thekind of the far behind students
, the people who weren't doingas well in school.
We were put in the dumb classof not being able to put our
best foot forward, and so it'sjust interesting to see that you
(03:08):
can have an interest or apassion that doesn't always get
highlighted in school.
But I'm curious as to what youwould say to individuals who
aren't interested in thepolitical process.
I think when cost of livingbecomes a topic, more people get
a little bit more engaged andcare a little bit more.
But what would you say to thoseindividuals who've just never
seen themselves interested inthe political process?
Vassy Kapelos (03:29):
That's such a great point that what
underscores, I think, ourinterest and engagement in
politics is often the degree towhich it impacts our life.
It's why often when you covermunicipal politics which I did
at the beginning of my careerit's an easier sell if that
makes sense, like on a localnewscast.
You don't have to fight veryhard to get your story near the
(03:51):
top of the show If it's aboutsomething that's happening with
potholes or garbage collectionor hospitals even, and schools,
because that stuff is sotangible to our everyday
experience.
But when you brought it out tofederal politics, I think it
becomes a lot harder to makethat connection, but it's there.
An example I would use isduring the pandemic.
(04:12):
It was probably the time in mylife when it felt most
punctuated that what thegovernment does can affect your
everyday life.
And I would even remove let'stake the health stuff off the
table for a second just like thebusinesses that were going to
go broke or had to close theirdoors or, when they opened up,
didn't know what to do or didn'thave the money or the capital
(04:33):
to be able to withstand it.
Like the people who lost theirjobs or had to stay home, and
they would bring their concernsso directly to me through emails
and social media and everythingyou can imagine, and then that
night I would have the federalminister that oversees that
portfolio on the show and Ireally felt like people could
(04:54):
see, and I could certainly seethe connection between what the
federal government was doing andthe way in which it impacted
your at that time, your veryexistence, both financially and
otherwise, and so I think it'smy job to make sure people who
do feel less inclined to beengaged understand the degree to
which stuff that happens hereimpacts their life and maybe
(05:17):
it's not in the immediacy, butit certainly will be in the
medium to long term.
And if they don't feel it, thenI'm not really doing my job.
Aaron Pete (05:23):
If politics was always in your genetics, I'm
curious as to what led you downthe path of holding power
accountable rather than goingdown the political path and
finding a political career ofyour own.
Vassy Kapelos (05:36):
Well, there's a couple of things that factored
into it, I think I always, likeI took politics in my undergrad
and I didn't really know.
I sort of thought, oh just, mydad's a lawyer and, you know,
has worked his whole life, loveshis career, and I thought maybe
that's something that I'll do.
But I didn't really feeltotally convinced.
I remember I went to like anarson trial he was at when I was
a teenager and I couldn'tbelieve the degree to which
(05:57):
someone's entire fate was in mydad's hands and I was like, how
do you even sleep at night?
And I could see why he wasstressed out all the time and it
seemed like a really difficultthing.
I just wasn't 100% sure and inthe back of my mind I had always
consumed so much news, both onTV and in newspapers, that I
knew I had an interest in it.
I had an aunt that did it as aprofession as well, but, like
(06:19):
always from a distance, you know, I always felt like it was
something only a certain type ofperson could succeed at.
That the odds are kind ofagainst you.
I wasn't.
I didn't know if I could reallybe that risk kind of, take that
kind of risk, and my momactually got sick in the middle
of my schooling, so I had donemy undergrad and masters and
just finished and she, she wasdiagnosed with cancer.
(06:40):
And I don't know what, it sortof changed my view on a lot of
things.
I don't really know why, but itimparted a sense on me of, like
, what do I have to lose?
We all have a certain time here.
And it just impacted me in kindof a very real way.
And so I thought you know what,like if I'm being honest, I
(07:01):
want to take this risk, like Iwant to give it a shot, and I
don't think it's the worst thingin the world if it's not
successful, if I don't.
You know, there are worsethings, for example, like my mom
getting sick, and also we onlyhave a certain amount of time.
I think, as I said here, I gotto like make the most of it.
And so that prompted me to justdo a little bit of searching.
I found that there was aprogram at a college near where
(07:22):
I lived that was geared towardpeople who already had a degree
and was very, like, sort oftechnical and practical, and it
was over a four month period.
I did it.
I was very clearly told you'regoing to have to move somewhere
small if you really want to.
You know, make a go of it.
I accepted that.
I was single at the time.
I had no kids.
I was like, why not?
(07:42):
And?
And that's what happened.
Within a few weeks, actually, Iapplied and got a job in Swift
Currents, saskatchewan, and Inever really look back.
Aaron Pete (07:50):
What makes a good journalist in your opinion?
Vassy Kapelos (07:53):
Well, that's a very subjective question.
That's a really good question aswell, I think somebody who
tries very hard with you knownobody's perfect to be accurate,
to be informative and to befree of bias and to be really
(08:14):
curious.
I think you need to have sort ofan innate sense of curiosity
about why people do the thingsthat they do, about what could
happen in the future, about howwe organize ourselves as a
society.
Like you got to be the personthat read the paper all the time
because you wanted to know whatwas going on in the world and
you have to feel like it'simportant that people do know
(08:35):
what's going on in the world.
I get it that it's heavy andsometimes people are like I
can't watch the news.
But really we only can improvethe world if we understand the
problems that are present todayor the issues that have happened
in history, not to dismisswhat's happened but to learn
from it and get better to avoidthose problems again.
So I think you have to bereally curious about that.
(08:55):
You have to have a really bigappetite for what's going on in
the world and, like I said, youhave to be like you have to be
intent and laser-like, focusedon being if you're a political
journalist in particular free ofbias and accurate.
Aaron Pete (09:11):
Who were some of your inspirations or role models
or people you looked up to?
Vassy Kapelos (09:16):
That's a good question too, I think.
I mean I've always consumed alot of media south of the border
and I really liked.
I mean I always looked up to myaunt.
Her name is Thalia Asheris.
She's my dad's first cousinactually.
She was a reporter in Canadaand a host for a long time and
then moved over to the Statesand worked for a couple big
networks.
She's gone to like a millionwar zones and she certainly
(09:39):
seemed to love what she did andshe was one of those people who
is she is still alive.
Obviously, this doesn't work inthe field, but she's very
committed to accuracy and tosort of like the what I would
characterize as like the oldschool principles of journalism.
I think in a Canadian contextI've been I don't know if I
really ever looked up andthought, oh, that's what I want
to do, but I did consume a lotof it all of the big nightly
(10:03):
newscasts, for example, and alot of the morning shows.
And I think, as I actuallyentered the business, I've been
beyond fortunate to have hadsome of the most amazing mentors
, people that I looked up to,who I looked up to, for example,
tom Clark, who has, honest togoodness, I would not be where I
am without not only hisguidance, but like his
(10:26):
encouragement.
He always made me feel, fromthe day that I was in Edmonton
and like, beg my boss to put mein a room with him that the sky
was the limit for my potential.
And sometimes when somebodyelse believes in you, when
you're at a stage in your lifewhere you don't really have the
capacity to believe that'spossible for yourself, it's like
all you need.
(10:46):
And he was really that personfor me and he's now moved on.
He's like the console generalin New York City, but he's a
wonderful journalist that always, like I could call and be like
how do I go about this?
What do I do?
And then also just like theencouragement that he provided
me even in really rough times,and so he's certainly someone I
(11:07):
looked up to.
He's gone a-freeze and over atGlobal was amazing to me as well
.
I mean, I've had so manycountless mentors in this
business.
I've been so lucky you hearhorror stories in every industry
, right, I've really had bossesalong the way Rob Russo at CBC
like people who took a vestedinterest in my success and
(11:28):
without whom I can guaranteelike I would never have attained
what I have or be able to havethese kinds of opportunities
without.
Aaron Pete (11:39):
You mentioned the old school rules of journalism.
Would you just mind elaboratinga little bit on what that is?
Vassy Kapelos (11:45):
I mean like getting the story right, I mean
like telling it without bias.
I'm sort of the way that weused to expect it to be straight
down the middle, and I don'tmean that I don't equate that
with both sizing everything andequal, you know, giving equal
weight to everybody.
I mean just this sort of likethe kind of journalism that
(12:08):
leaves you with the impressionthe person reporting does not
come at it with an agenda, andI'm not accusing people of doing
that right now, but I thinkthat certainly there is an
overall impression to thateffect and I feel like it was
less so there before socialmedia, before everybody could
see our thoughts on everything,our retweets, things like that.
(12:29):
And I love that kind ofjournalism, I think it serves a
real purpose and I feel like myaunt really exemplified it.
Aaron Pete (12:36):
This is one area I actually have just a specific
question.
That's a bit of a tangent, butI'm a really big believer in
this concept of steelmaningpositions.
And so you may have your biasesor your perspectives, but to
really put yourself in the shoesof the person you disagree with
most with the policy, you can'tstand and really go through the
(12:56):
tenets of why that might becorrect and then just at least
acknowledge and give it its due,rather than looking at the
strawman positions and going tothe talking points and really
figuring out what the argumentis for and what it is against.
And I find that that's anintellectual exercise.
It's a lot of work for peopleand so not everybody wants to do
(13:18):
that, but I find the people Ifind the most admirable are
always working to at leastunderstand.
They may not agree, but tocomprehend where the arguments
are on the other side and have awholesome understanding.
So if they get into adisagreement they can at least
validate why that person thinkswhat they think.
Vassy Kapelos (13:34):
I think that's awesome that you do that.
I think it's become even harderright now when we spend so much
of our time on social mediaplatforms that have an algorithm
that works in the exactopposite way, that has an
algorithm that reinforces yourpoint of view, and I actually
think it's one of the biggestcontributors to why it feels so
polarized, because when I meetpeople in person, they aren't
(13:57):
like that.
There are so many people whoare willing to engage, even in
debates that I have on my show,for example, of MPs of all kinds
.
They're shaking hands before,they're shaking hands after.
It's not a bloody fight to thedeath.
I think that sort of silo, thatway of living in silos, exists,
(14:19):
but I do think it's just beingamplified and reinforced to such
an incredible degree by socialmedia.
And I also think just in thatvein, that's why it's been so
important for me to have workedin other parts of the country,
particularly if I want to belike a national host or a
national reporter.
I grew up in downtown Torontosomething, by the way, I didn't
talk a lot about when I lived inall those other places, but
(14:43):
there was through.
It's not on purpose, but yougrow up with a bit of an
ignorance about the rest of thecountry, because there's so much
in Toronto that consumes youand it's an amazing city.
But I'm so happy I lived inAlberta.
I'm so happy I lived inSaskatchewan and Nova Scotia and
other parts of Ontario becauseI think that it truly has
allowed me to not be dismissiveof things that you might
(15:04):
inherently be dismissive of, andtry very hard to put myself in
the shoes of people who have acompletely different experience
growing up in this country thanI did.
Aaron Pete (15:14):
That would probably be one of my most important
things.
If I'm thinking about what Ivalue in a journalist is exactly
what you just described.
But there's also steps alongyour career path that are
standout moments and I'mwondering if you can talk about
Premier Allison Redford and thatjourney and how that story
developed.
Vassy Kapelos (15:31):
Well, I think my work in Alberta is certainly
where, if I look back now I hopeI became the reporter that I
wanted to be or that I ended upbeing, and by that I mean it's
the place where I ended up beingable to exclusively focus on
politics.
So I went into this job knowingthat's what I wanted my Ed goal
to be.
I wanted to basically be thehost of Meet the Press in Canada
(15:52):
and I remember my first bosssaid to me you shouldn't really
have such a specific goal.
You're kind of setting yourselfup for disappointment, which at
the time was fairly crashing,but not crashing enough to
prevent me from it.
And somehow I weaseled my waythrough my initial jobs into
Edmonton.
And where I worked in Edmontonwas Global Edmonton, which is
like a powerhouse local stationhighly consumed by everyone who
(16:15):
lives in Edmonton, and there,after a little while kind of
covering the night bead andstuff like that, I became the
legislative reporter and thenthe provincial affairs reporter
and my goodness, what anopportunity that was at a time.
In Alberta politics that waslike wow, everybody had told me
when I went there.
Really is that excitingpolitics.
They've had the same party andgovernment for four decades.
(16:38):
And basically I came as thatwas starting to come to an end
or now, when we look back, atleast you can see that was
coming to an end and I reallyjust like cut my cut my chops, I
guess, or cut my teeth on thepolitical scene.
There I was it.
I was the only reporter.
I stayed there every day.
I learned how to ask questions,I learned how to develop
sources and relationships thatwould allow me to get scoops,
(17:01):
and I learned how to break news,which is a huge part of what
you end up doing, particularlyas a political reporter, and one
of the stories I broke wasaround a severance that I think
Alison Redford had provided toher chief of staff both very
well known political figures nowand I did it through access to
information, another skill thatI learned while I was there, and
(17:25):
it ended up being kind of oneof the bigger stories that I
broke in Alberta, but it wasmore just like a.
It was more emblematic of allthat I learned covering politics
in that province, and it's alsothe moment where, like that
whole period of my life, waswhere I knew for certain this
was what I was meant to do andthat I was so happy that this
had ended up being my career,like there were all the little
(17:45):
doubts I had dissipatedcompletely.
Aaron Pete (17:48):
There's so many pieces to being a great
journalist.
One of them is creating a story, getting those sources of
writing it, telling it clearlyso people can understand a
complex topic.
That's kind of synthesized forpeople to be able to understand
easily.
The other piece is interviewingpeople and that's a process
where you have to be able to askfollow up questions.
When did you start to developthat skill set and understand
(18:10):
what makes a great interview?
Vassy Kapelos (18:13):
Another great question because, you're right,
they are sort of not the mostrelated skill sets.
There's a whole number ofskills that go into creating a
two minute story on a NightlyNewscast exactly the ones that
you laid out, that you kind ofover time come to perfect right.
Took me like 10 years, I think,to get kind of good at that.
I don't even know if I'd saygood, but like to feel really
comfortable and be able to get astory together fast, be good at
(18:37):
the editing process, all thatkind of stuff.
And then hosting was somethingthat, as I said, I always had
like that goal out there.
But I didn't know exactly how Iwas going to get there.
And so initially again, tomClark, who was host of the
Sunday weekly political show atGlobal and a champion of mine
when he was going away, kind ofsaid hey guys, why don't you
(18:57):
have Vashi fill in?
And so that was the beginningof it.
I mean, if I watched my initialfill ins now I would probably
be horrified.
I had.
No, it takes a really long timeto feel comfortable in the way
you're going to govern yourselfas a host and I would say, to be
honest with you, I don't thinkI felt super comfortable in that
(19:21):
until when I came back from mymat leave just a few years ago.
It was a really yeah, just itwas a really hard process, kind
of tuning out the outsidecriticism and voices either bad
or good and just relying on mygut.
It was not something that waslike instinctual.
(19:42):
It actually came over time thatI started to feel really
comfortable in the way in whichI conducted those interviews and
really sure of everything Iwanted to do in them.
And ever since that switchhappened which I've actually
never even really reflected onit ever since that switch
happened, it's like it's like ahabit for me.
Now it's not, I don't think I.
(20:03):
It's not like a stress, it'snot.
It feels much more natural, Iguess is the way to put it.
But it took a really long time.
Aaron Pete (20:10):
What were some of the things that you felt like
we're preventing you fromfeeling that comfort In the
process, because you're in aunique such situation, as I
imagine.
There are people behind thecameras watching and observing
and I'm just, for the most part,alone.
So that, coupled with socialmedia and this going out to the
globe, what was that processlike and what were some of the
(20:32):
standout challenges?
Vassy Kapelos (20:34):
Yeah, I think you've laid it out really well.
I think that it was difficultto, like I said, sort of tune
stuff out and that's not to saytune at all criticism, because
goodness knows I deserved it andand continue to but To sort of
be able to filter out what'svalid and what isn't, and what I
can improve on and what's justkind of noise.
(20:56):
I think I really struggled withthat, even like stupid things
like how I looked or how Isounded, and it was just so
sudden for me because when Iworked at global, I had hosted
the Sunday show there for awhile and the viewers were
incredibly used to me becauseI'd been on global for 10 years
in other capacities, but likenobody had ever heard of me at
(21:16):
CDC and it was a totallydifferent audience and I just
sort of always felt a little bitout of place.
I don't.
I don't know why, like peoplewho are there have been there
for so long and there's so much.
It's part of their identity andI get that because I sort of had
it at global for a long timeand so it's just this like, like
this feeling of discomfortalmost, and maybe that
(21:38):
translated into what I was likeon air or how I felt, or you
could like almost smell thedoubt or something like that,
and it almost felt at times likeI had to fake it, you know,
like I had to fake that I wasconfident enough or that I
wasn't worried about x, y or z.
And then, like I said, likesomething really, I mean, while
I was pregnant I was really sickand that started to make things
(22:00):
better as well if that soundsweird like I was Incredibly ill,
so I was less.
I was so just trying to getthrough things that I started I
stopped being as worried abouthow I was being perceived and so
that was maybe like stage one.
Then I went to mat leave andthen when I came back, I don't
know, I can't even pinpoint whatexactly changed, but I was like
I don't know.
(22:20):
Since then I just have had noissues with that kind of thing.
Aaron Pete (22:24):
Can I ask was that your first child being born
during that period?
Vassy Kapelos (22:27):
Yeah, it's my first of my only, because I was
40 when I gave birth and it wasIVF, so he was like a miracle.
I had only two.
I mean this is very detailed.
Hopefully, I only had twoembryos and, like it was just, I
was just the one shot,basically, and so he's a total
miracle.
And, yeah, it's my first time Ihave two step kids who are
(22:48):
older, who have been in my lifefor a really long time, but he's
my first kid of my own, somaybe it's the first time also
since I started my career that Itook a beat, like I took eight
months off to be with my son andI, I don't know, I just came
back like maybe with theperspective that my entire
identity was no longer wrappedup in my success in my career or
(23:10):
lack thereof, and Maybe thatwas a bit freeing, if I, if I
think about it now, and it sortof continues to be, if that
makes sense.
Aaron Pete (23:17):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, I was going to askwhether or not just an
understanding of this, thischild's Viewpoint of me, matters
much more than those peopleover there.
Those people over there likethis is what really matters in
life.
Vassy Kapelos (23:29):
Yeah, I think so, and it's funny because my mom
actually ended up passing awayand for a long time I had that
perspective after her passing,like it was very hard to just
sort of even Think am I gonnacare about my job anymore, am I
even gonna care about beingsuccessful or how much money I
make or anything, because itfelt impossible for for years
(23:50):
after she passed away.
But I don't know if this is thecase with other people who lose
people who are close to them.
Eventually it dissipates andyou can return to some of the,
the things that were normalbefore and your view of the
world before, and you get caughtup in the little things again.
And I think you're right that,basically taking a beat and
(24:10):
taking some time away andfocusing on Someone else and
their well-being versus just myown success and my team success
and all that stuff.
Then maybe it sort of acted inthe same way in a weird way as
as my mom's passing.
I've just been able to carrythat through much longer, but
that's probably because my son'sin my life all the time and and
(24:31):
like doesn't care about my jobin the least.
Aaron Pete (24:34):
Well, I'm very grateful you were willing to
share that.
The other piece aroundjournalism that I think gets
unspoken but is very noticed bypeople when it doesn't take
place is the importance of thefollow-up.
And the follow-up is so crucial.
But, as a host, I don't thinklisteners or viewers understand
how uncomfortable or howchallenging those follow-ups can
be for people.
(24:54):
I invite people to come instudio.
They've taken time out of theirday to have a conversation with
me.
I'm grateful, but I'm gonna asksome tough questions and then
I'm going to follow up if Idon't get what I believe is a
more honest or authentic orgenuine answer.
And that's a process to me as ahost that you go through
because you're you're sograteful for the time, but
(25:15):
you're also responsible to thelisteners and the viewers with
what you do with that time.
And you are a person I find themost admirable when it comes to
the follow-ups and thechallenges, because you're
incredibly Respectful, you'reincredibly kind to the person
saying like with all due respect, I have to challenge you and
hear some statistics that gocompletely against the claim you
(25:36):
just made.
When did you start to developthat and was that a challenge to
get comfortable asking thefollow-ups?
Vassy Kapelos (25:42):
I Started to develop it pretty early on at at
CBC and through my time therebecame much more comfortable
with it and I think I'm notuncomfortable with it at all.
I I actually think it's like anecessity of my job and it's the
thing I hear from most, frompeople who watch and listen.
(26:04):
They're just like I'm so gladyou didn't just let that go.
It's a balancing act, likethere's only so much, so many
follow-ups you can ask beforethe.
You know, when you're gut atthis point after this long of
doing it, that the audience kindof turns away.
But there's a, there's a sweetspot right where you can ask
follow-ups, challenge theassertions that are being made
(26:24):
and also Maybe even sometimesmore importantly in a political
sphere, point out when thereisn't an answer being provided,
which I think you can again dovery politely and respectfully.
But I know that's what theaudience is thinking they're not
answering your question becauseI hear it all the time and so
sometimes it's Important asimportant as kind of grilling
(26:44):
them or following up on thingsto just point out like that
isn't actually answering what Iasked you.
Aaron Pete (26:51):
Is that uncomfortable or at all?
Because I think about some ofthe people they're.
They're being invited on toyour show, they're being invited
on to speak to thousands andthousands of people and I'm just
thinking about, like in thosemoments where you know they're
lying or you know that they'rebending the truth to a point
where it's almost unethical orirresponsible, and like I'm just
curious, as the host, how youprocess that, having that go on
(27:16):
and then you're like I have tofollow up and sometimes you
might not always be able to prepor prepare For them, taking it
off track or trying to bend tothe truth.
Vassy Kapelos (27:25):
I mean, the first rule I think, of any good host
at this point is you have to beready to, like you go in with an
idea here's what I want to do,here's the stuff they might say
what facts do I need armed withso that I can challenge them?
But you need to be prepared tocompletely throw it out.
Like the most important thingto do is listen To what they say
in response and then, if you'vegot to go somewhere else, you
(27:45):
go somewhere else.
And to your question around,like the level of comfort I have
.
I think like the politicalsphere Imparts a bit of a
different calculation there, andby that I mean like they signed
up for this.
They are accountable toCanadians, they know it's a part
of their job.
So I'm happy that they come on,I'm grateful of them to make
time for it, but overall, likethis is what they should be
(28:07):
doing.
I I firmly kind of believe that, and not necessarily with me,
but just the sort of overallfunction of accountability, and
so I have no Quams aboutfollowing up.
I don't ever really feeluncomfortable about it and I
would feel much worse if, if Ididn't and just let them kind of
get away with not answering orNot.
(28:27):
I mean, I've don't encountertoo many lies, but certainly,
like you know, saying thingsthat are spun, big time spun.
Aaron Pete (28:35):
What is your favorite type of interview?
You have a different, a coupledifferent format styles.
What's your favorite style?
Vassy Kapelos (28:41):
So I love accountability.
There's nothing I love morethan you know somebody from some
political party be it aminister or from a different
from the opposition, coming onto you know, talk on a certain
policy or our perspective thatthey have, and you know.
Eight to ten minutes ofaccountability, that's like my
bread and butter by a millionmiles.
(29:02):
That's my favorite thing.
Aaron Pete (29:03):
Fascinating.
I'm going to get a little bitmore into the politics with a
few more questions.
And we were listening to one ofyour interviews and it was with
leader Steve McKinnon and itjust brought up a lot of
questions for me in the process.
First, I'm curious as to yourperspective on party whips.
Vassy Kapelos (29:21):
I so he's the yeah, he's the government house
leader and he used to be theparty whip, and now he's being
replaced as the party whip.
And I'm sure the reason you'reasking is because it all relates
to this rogue liberal MP whosaid these wild things about the
prime minister and his bestbefore date and then also talked
about, for example, then, 24hours later, saying I never said
(29:43):
a leadership review.
After saying leadership review.
So I mean, party whips are likea function of our democracy.
They are reflective, though, ofsomething that maybe is a
broader conversation, which isthe degree to which politicians
have to adhere to a partyphilosophy, right, the degree to
which they all have to fall inline.
(30:04):
Clearly, the whip spoke to thisgentleman, ken McDonald.
They won't tell us what theytold him to do, or what they
threatened or everything, but,lo and behold, after that
conversation he came out saying,hey, I'm not calling for a
leadership review.
So I understand the function ofit.
Certainly, from a partyperspective, I'm not like a
polyamor, but I also get it whenwe you know, there are other
(30:26):
countries, for example, evenother parliamentary democracies
I'm thinking of the UK wherethey're not as restrictive when
it comes to that process.
Now that could mean a lot moreturmoil, but at the same time
you might actually hear whatpeople think more frequently.
Aaron Pete (30:40):
That's what I was wondering is just the process of
wanting authenticity in aninterview, wanting the honest
answers, and then being able tosee liberal MP Ken McDonald give
honest answers and we finallyget some fresh perspectives and
something that surpriseseverybody, and then seeing them
be required to walk it back andwe can agree that likely party
whip met with this person but tonot get that authenticity of
(31:03):
knowing that that happened seemssomewhat disingenuous.
I understand it's a part of thesystem, but just from our role
of asking these questions itjust seems frustrating to me.
Vassy Kapelos (31:14):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
I can see why that would be thecase.
I think I'm just so used tobeing around it that maybe it
didn't.
You know what I mean.
It doesn't stick out to me inthe same way.
I would be shocked.
I mean, very infrequently dopoliticians, in particular the
government, say here's what wetalked about behind the scenes
and here's how I forced them todo it.
Like that's just, that wouldn'treally happen anywhere.
(31:34):
But I do get the point thatlike it's curious the way in
which that all unfolded andnobody's really too transparent
about it.
Aaron Pete (31:48):
But that's what I find so valuable about your show
is you very clearly laid it outof like this is what they said
yesterday and this is whatthey're saying today.
How crazy is it that in any ifyou were in your job place, you
would not accept those terms andconditions?
Yet in politics, we seem toaccept somewhat different rules.
The other one that I wanted toask just your general
(32:10):
perspective of is how leadersand politicians change who they
are in order to better reflectto the population in a way that
is more receptive, and again,it's part of the process.
I'm not calling any one personout, but seeing Pierre Paulyev
take off the glasses, switch thehaircut, switch the clothing
style to come across morerelatable, and then watching
(32:32):
Justin Trudeau, as you kind ofdescribed, go through a gambit
of different topics to see whichones are going to resonate, is
like if you did that at yourworkplace, if you did that when
you're working at a bakery, noneof that would be acceptable.
Yet we accept certain strangerules for these individuals and
I'm just curious how you processthat.
Vassy Kapelos (32:51):
Yeah, that's another great question.
I think that I'm just so used topolitics being a different
world in a way, and even whenyou kind of look at the way it
is here relative to the US orother places like it's so hard
now to tell what will resonate,what will take the glasses off
(33:11):
make a difference, like what wehear, what we do from the former
president in the United StatesLike I have no idea how to judge
that stuff anymore.
But I think, like in theCanadian context, the way in
which those leaders communicate,the way in which they appear,
the people who surround them,all of that ultimately
contributes to the impressionthat forms among Canadians.
(33:32):
And that's just the way it is,because you and I might be
paying attention in a reallygranular way outside of the
election cycle, but mostCanadians wait until an election
campaign to look that closely,and so you're competing
essentially for the creation ofan impression on the periphery.
And so those things like theoff-hand things you say, or the
(33:56):
style, the ads, the ad buys,things like that they are the
things that will really leave animpact on Canadians who are not
acting the way they wouldperhaps in a campaign when
they're paying attention toevery little policy decision
that you make.
Aaron Pete (34:10):
Right.
I think part of the reason thatI pay so close attention is
because I'm a politician myself.
I'm on council for my FirstNation community, so I'm
constantly thinking about whatdid I say leading into it and
how am I delivering for them,and is there something I could
be doing better?
And I want every politician toapproach it that way.
I have some crazy beliefs.
(34:31):
I don't think politiciansshould really make a living wage
in their role.
I go back to the way things usedto be, which was we used to
choose the greatest people inour community, in our culture,
in our society, and have themtake the lead, not for the
financial gain, but because weknow that they have something to
contribute in the guiding ofour culture and within
(34:52):
Indigenous communities.
We would look to those peoplewho could leave things better
for the next seven generations,not because it was a profitable
approach to take and becausethey were taken care of and
there'd be new opportunities.
So when I hear Justin Trudeaumay want to resign now because
there'll be more financialopportunities if he resigns now
and the doors might stay openfor him, that's like but that's
(35:12):
not why you're there.
You're there to serve at thebehest of the community that you
agreed to.
So, like just, I get veryphilosophical about it and
perhaps I wouldn't be a good jobat holding power to account
because I have some of thesenaive philosophies that don't
actually act out in the culture.
Vassy Kapelos (35:26):
They're not naive .
I think that you wantpoliticians to be in it for the
right reasons and to bettersociety through the work that
they do, and I actually am maybegoing to respond to that by
saying I think most of them are.
I'm not a cynic, and I say thatbecause I have engaged in so
many conversations outside of myjob with people from all
(35:49):
political stripes who have bigideas about things and who
initially came here reallycertainly for the right reasons.
I think that the mediaenvironment, the social media
environment in particular,brings out the worst in
everybody, and so we're leftwith an impression that runs
very counter to that.
But I have to honestly say myown perception, my own
(36:17):
interactions, my own experience,is not really in that vein.
They may be somewhat motivatedlike all of us are, if we're
being honest by our own ambition, our own egos, but I think that
the majority of them balancethat out by wanting to do good.
Now, does that always happen?
No, I'm not sure if they're init for the money.
(36:38):
I think like there's good moneybe made, but not great money
compared to a lot of the thingsthey could be doing outside of
politics.
But as for their motivation,I'm like I am.
It's gonna sound weird as likea person who grills them all the
time, but I actually think alot of them are in it for the
right reasons.
Aaron Pete (36:57):
I'm very happy to hear that.
As somebody who covers them, Ithink you have to be able to
understand their perspectives aswell.
The other piece is just aroundyouth, and I'm wondering what
your thoughts are.
Are we constantly here thatyouth are less engaged, and I'm
wondering if there's somethingto be done about that or if you
have any perspectives on that?
Vassy Kapelos (37:15):
I sort of have a split perspective on that.
Living with two I live with.
My 18-year-old stepdaughterjust started university.
I have a 13-year-old stepson.
I don't know if they are asunengaged as we might think that
they are, and I don't know ifthis is your experience as well.
I think they maybe are engagedin ways that we aren't used to
or familiar with, but I thinkthat they have a real interest
(37:37):
in justice in the world, forexample, in inequality in the
world.
They are very interested inclimate change.
Like this is my experience,obviously, with my stepkids and
their circle of friends.
But my stepdaughter went intoenvironmental geography because
she is so passionate abouttrying to be part of the
solution to mitigate the impactsof climate change.
(38:00):
Now does that translate intoreading a newspaper every day,
like I did growing up?
No, my worry is this is wherethe split comes from.
Me is that most of what she andher brother and people their
age consume comes from somethinglike TikTok and when I go on
that platform, let's say, forjust one example, with them,
(38:21):
there's a lot of falseinformation there and they don't
necessarily know that it isfalse.
There's a lot of stuff that'spresented there that is actually
blatantly false and facts thatare presented as facts that are
not, and so I'm eagerly likethat's not true, and here's why
that's not true.
Like I'm sort of like a humanfact checker for them, but they
absorb that right away, likethey're not eating at hook line
(38:43):
and sinker, but they'reinundated with a lot of stuff,
and the algorithms, again, arereinforcing a lot of those
falsities, and so my worry isnot about necessarily the level
of engagement, but what isinforming it at times, and so
that's where I would like directmy attention going forward.
But I think that I think todiscount young people because
(39:06):
they're also interested inskincare or like hanging out
with their friends, is you knowwhat I mean?
It's a disservice.
My kids, my stepkids, are asmultifaceted as anyone I've ever
known in my life and they'reintelligent and they want the
world to be a better place, andmaybe it doesn't manifest in the
exact way it did when I wasyounger, but I think they're
engaged and I just worry aboutsort of again like the
(39:31):
algorithms.
Aaron Pete (39:33):
That's absolutely fair.
Would you mind walking usthrough the different shows that
you host and what stands out toyou about them?
Vassy Kapelos (39:41):
OK, so I host a weekly political show, power
Play, every night at fiveo'clock on a CTV news network
and that is sort of like the dayof stuff.
So yesterday, for example, itwas about the questions around
Justin Trudeau's leadership thegovernment house leader was here
and sort of what they're goingto do next week when the House
of Commons returns, and by thatI mean like what is the
(40:03):
legislative agenda?
What piece of the legislationare they going to introduce and
how are they going to be focused?
So what can we expect from thegovernment Basically in the next
three or four months?
So it's like very of the moment.
I try to make it as what'shappening.
What do you need to know?
Who are the people that need tobe held account on?
What's gone on today?
And then the other show that Ihost on TV is called Question
(40:25):
Period, which is a show thatairs on Sundays and it's a bit
different in that it is the paceis like a little bit slower
than Power Play.
It's more polished, like we puta lot of effort into the
production around it because wehave the time during the week to
do that, and I really try to gofor people who will say
something that impacts theagenda in the next week.
(40:48):
So we try really hard to lookahead in our interview.
So, for example, today Iinterviewed Jodi Thomas, who's
the National Security Advisor tothe Prime Minister, until about
five o'clock tonight.
And next week the ForeignInterference Inquiry starts and
I wanted to you know, india ispart of it now, china is part of
it, and so I really wanted tointerview her about, like,
(41:09):
looking ahead to that prospectand different information that
we might not have at our handsyet, that might inform how it
plays out, how people perceiveit, all that kind of stuff.
And so I look for voices likethat that are kind of the big
and powerful voices, the peoplewho are making a big decisions
that impact us.
(41:30):
And I try to gear my line ofquestioning not just on what's
happened so far but like what'scoming up.
And the third show was a radioshow every day on all of our I
Heart News radio stations acrossthe country and that's like my
little, like fun time of the day.
I do tons of politics and Ihave amazing panels, but I also
(41:51):
do it's like a broad nationalshow, so I also do stuff that's
outside of the political arena,which is the first time in like
more than a decade that I'veever been able to do that.
So that's my new learning curve, like getting good at
interviewing people aboutscience or technology or kids.
I get to do lots of storiesthat are of interest to me
outside of my career, which hasbeen incredibly fun.
Aaron Pete (42:13):
That's fascinating, and I'm so glad that you've been
able to climb to this point.
This is something you wanted todo from the get go.
What does it mean to be able toactually live out your dream,
one of your goals from an earlyage?
What does that mean to you?
Vassy Kapelos (42:27):
I feel so lucky.
I just feel like I can'tbelieve that I am.
To be honest, it's still likesuper cheesy and emotional for
me because I feel sad that mymom never got to see it, because
we used to watch those showstogether and she was so
political and would have been soexcited that, on all her hard
work and my dad's, I've beenable to, you know, do what so
(42:50):
few people get to do.
And I just feel like I said tomy husband the other day like
you always worry in thisbusiness about getting fired.
And I said I can't believe I'mat a point in my life where if I
did get fired, it wouldn't ruinme.
Like I feel like I have been theluckiest person in the world
for 15 years.
I've had a front row seat tohistory, I've seen the world,
I've reported from all aroundthe world, I get to grill
(43:13):
politicians on a nightly basis.
Like I don't know what I did todeserve to be this fortunate,
but I feel incredibly gratefuland now I just got to figure out
what to do next.
I'm kidding.
Aaron Pete (43:28):
I really appreciate the work you do.
I watch almost all of yourshows.
I tune in.
You are the go to.
There are other shows that tryand do something similar, but in
my personal opinion they don'teven hold a candle to the work
you're doing of holdingindividuals accountable,
providing diverse perspectives,without doing that getting every
perspective in the gambit.
(43:50):
You make sure to have veryreasonable conversations and
there's all these concerns aboutwhether or not journalism is
dying or not, and I think you'reone of the people doing a very
good job of holding power toaccount, keeping an informed
democracy and helping moveCanada in the right direction by
making sure political leadersexplain themselves and give
(44:10):
reasonable answers to thequestions, and I think that
that's an admirable pursuit,that we need to uplift
individuals like yourself and beproud that you're the one
asking some of these toughquestions, because I think
that's how we improve ourculture, our society and move in
the right direction, no matterwhich party is in power.
As long as we have people likeyourself doing that work, we are
moving in the right directionlong term.
(44:31):
So I'm thankful for you thatyou were willing to do the
interview and thankful for thework that you do every day
informing our society and ourculture.
Vassy Kapelos (44:38):
Well, that's basically the nicest thing
anyone's ever said to me, soI'll take that with me for all
the years to come.
Thank you for having me, thankyou for such kind comments, and
I hope that we get to talk again.
Aaron Pete (44:48):
As do I Thank you again.
Welcome back to another episode of the Bigger
than Me podcast.
Here is your host, aaron.
I am a huge fan of theinterview process and asking
tough questions, and I remain astudent of the game, trying to
understand how people approachthis.
Today I have the privilege ofspeaking with the host of CTV
Powerplay and Question Periodand the host of a daily show on
(00:22):
iHeartRadio.
My guest today is VashiCapellos.
Vashi, it is such an honor tobe sitting down with you today.
I am so excited.
I find that I learned so muchfrom individuals like yourself
who are specialists at the workthey do.
But would you mind first justintroducing yourself to the
listeners Of course.
Vassy Kapelos (00:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
First of all, I'm reallyexcited to be with you.
My name is Vashi Capellos.
I host a couple of shows on CTVwhere I kind of serve as the
chief political correspondent,so those shows are entirely
political in nature.
And then I also host a radioshow on the iHeartRadio talk
network across the country everyday two hours in the middle of
(01:02):
the day, which is a bit morebroad.
So it has a lot of politics,but it also has a bunch of other
stuff as well.
And yeah, that's it.
Aaron Pete (01:10):
Would you mind taking us back to your origin
story?
When did you start to becomeinterested in politics, the
political process more broadly?
Vassy Kapelos (01:19):
So I sort of joked that I came by it
genetically or by birth, becausemy parents met at a political
convention years and years ago.
My dad actually ran in politicsat one point unsuccessfully,
but ran and so I sort of wasborn into an environment in
which politics was just a partof life and talking about
(01:40):
politics was a part of life.
So by the time that I was bornmy parents were not politically
active, but they were certainlypolitically interested and
inclined and, more broadly,beyond just politics, super
interested in current events andnews.
We had multiple newspapersNewspapers are still a big thing
then delivered to our houseevery day, even more on a Sunday
, for example, in Toronto, inthe neighborhood I grew up in,
(02:02):
and they just talked about it alot and so I sort of absorbed it
, I think by osmosis that way.
And then as I became more awareof what's going on and I started
reading the paper myself at akind of embarrassingly young age
and sort of being interested invarious leadership, elections,
and I remember watching on TVwith my parents and then
elections, elections, like itjust sort of I grew up with it
(02:26):
as a part of who I am and sowhen I was starting to think
about, like what do I want to dowith my life and what do I
enjoy?
I was in such a privilegedposition to be able to think
about my career path based on mypassion or the things that I
like in my life or that I'minterested in, and so it just
sort of eventually seemed like anatural fit.
Aaron Pete (02:47):
It's funny that you say that, because I too actually
with a friend, we would readthe newspaper in middle school
and talk about the issues andwhat was going on, but in school
we were actually considered thekind of the far behind students
, the people who weren't doingas well in school.
We were put in the dumb classof not being able to put our
best foot forward, and so it'sjust interesting to see that you
(03:08):
can have an interest or apassion that doesn't always get
highlighted in school.
But I'm curious as to what youwould say to individuals who
aren't interested in thepolitical process.
I think when cost of livingbecomes a topic, more people get
a little bit more engaged andcare a little bit more.
But what would you say to thoseindividuals who've just never
seen themselves interested inthe political process?
Vassy Kapelos (03:29):
That's such a great point that what
underscores, I think, ourinterest and engagement in
politics is often the degree towhich it impacts our life.
It's why often when you covermunicipal politics which I did
at the beginning of my careerit's an easier sell if that
makes sense, like on a localnewscast.
You don't have to fight veryhard to get your story near the
(03:51):
top of the show If it's aboutsomething that's happening with
potholes or garbage collectionor hospitals even, and schools,
because that stuff is sotangible to our everyday
experience.
But when you brought it out tofederal politics, I think it
becomes a lot harder to makethat connection, but it's there.
An example I would use isduring the pandemic.
(04:12):
It was probably the time in mylife when it felt most
punctuated that what thegovernment does can affect your
everyday life.
And I would even remove let'stake the health stuff off the
table for a second just like thebusinesses that were going to
go broke or had to close theirdoors or, when they opened up,
didn't know what to do or didn'thave the money or the capital
(04:33):
to be able to withstand it.
Like the people who lost theirjobs or had to stay home, and
they would bring their concernsso directly to me through emails
and social media and everythingyou can imagine, and then that
night I would have the federalminister that oversees that
portfolio on the show and Ireally felt like people could
(04:54):
see, and I could certainly seethe connection between what the
federal government was doing andthe way in which it impacted
your at that time, your veryexistence, both financially and
otherwise, and so I think it'smy job to make sure people who
do feel less inclined to beengaged understand the degree to
which stuff that happens hereimpacts their life and maybe
(05:17):
it's not in the immediacy, butit certainly will be in the
medium to long term.
And if they don't feel it, thenI'm not really doing my job.
Aaron Pete (05:23):
If politics was always in your genetics, I'm
curious as to what led you downthe path of holding power
accountable rather than goingdown the political path and
finding a political career ofyour own.
Vassy Kapelos (05:36):
Well, there's a couple of things that factored
into it, I think I always, likeI took politics in my undergrad
and I didn't really know.
I sort of thought, oh just, mydad's a lawyer and, you know,
has worked his whole life, loveshis career, and I thought maybe
that's something that I'll do.
But I didn't really feeltotally convinced.
I remember I went to like anarson trial he was at when I was
a teenager and I couldn'tbelieve the degree to which
(05:57):
someone's entire fate was in mydad's hands and I was like, how
do you even sleep at night?
And I could see why he wasstressed out all the time and it
seemed like a really difficultthing.
I just wasn't 100% sure and inthe back of my mind I had always
consumed so much news, both onTV and in newspapers, that I
knew I had an interest in it.
I had an aunt that did it as aprofession as well, but, like
(06:19):
always from a distance, you know, I always felt like it was
something only a certain type ofperson could succeed at.
That the odds are kind ofagainst you.
I wasn't.
I didn't know if I could reallybe that risk kind of, take that
kind of risk, and my momactually got sick in the middle
of my schooling, so I had donemy undergrad and masters and
just finished and she, she wasdiagnosed with cancer.
(06:40):
And I don't know what, it sortof changed my view on a lot of
things.
I don't really know why, but itimparted a sense on me of, like
, what do I have to lose?
We all have a certain time here.
And it just impacted me in kindof a very real way.
And so I thought you know what,like if I'm being honest, I
(07:01):
want to take this risk, like Iwant to give it a shot, and I
don't think it's the worst thingin the world if it's not
successful, if I don't.
You know, there are worsethings, for example, like my mom
getting sick, and also we onlyhave a certain amount of time.
I think, as I said here, I gotto like make the most of it.
And so that prompted me to justdo a little bit of searching.
I found that there was aprogram at a college near where
(07:22):
I lived that was geared towardpeople who already had a degree
and was very, like, sort oftechnical and practical, and it
was over a four month period.
I did it.
I was very clearly told you'regoing to have to move somewhere
small if you really want to.
You know, make a go of it.
I accepted that.
I was single at the time.
I had no kids.
I was like, why not?
(07:42):
And?
And that's what happened.
Within a few weeks, actually, Iapplied and got a job in Swift
Currents, saskatchewan, and Inever really look back.
Aaron Pete (07:50):
What makes a good journalist in your opinion?
Vassy Kapelos (07:53):
Well, that's a very subjective question.
That's a really good question aswell, I think somebody who
tries very hard with you knownobody's perfect to be accurate,
to be informative and to befree of bias and to be really
(08:14):
curious.
I think you need to have sort ofan innate sense of curiosity
about why people do the thingsthat they do, about what could
happen in the future, about howwe organize ourselves as a
society.
Like you got to be the personthat read the paper all the time
because you wanted to know whatwas going on in the world and
you have to feel like it'simportant that people do know
(08:35):
what's going on in the world.
I get it that it's heavy andsometimes people are like I
can't watch the news.
But really we only can improvethe world if we understand the
problems that are present todayor the issues that have happened
in history, not to dismisswhat's happened but to learn
from it and get better to avoidthose problems again.
So I think you have to bereally curious about that.
(08:55):
You have to have a really bigappetite for what's going on in
the world and, like I said, youhave to be like you have to be
intent and laser-like, focusedon being if you're a political
journalist in particular free ofbias and accurate.
Aaron Pete (09:11):
Who were some of your inspirations or role models
or people you looked up to?
Vassy Kapelos (09:16):
That's a good question too, I think.
I mean I've always consumed alot of media south of the border
and I really liked.
I mean I always looked up to myaunt.
Her name is Thalia Asheris.
She's my dad's first cousinactually.
She was a reporter in Canadaand a host for a long time and
then moved over to the Statesand worked for a couple big
networks.
She's gone to like a millionwar zones and she certainly
(09:39):
seemed to love what she did andshe was one of those people who
is she is still alive.
Obviously, this doesn't work inthe field, but she's very
committed to accuracy and tosort of like the what I would
characterize as like the oldschool principles of journalism.
I think in a Canadian contextI've been I don't know if I
really ever looked up andthought, oh, that's what I want
to do, but I did consume a lotof it all of the big nightly
(10:03):
newscasts, for example, and alot of the morning shows.
And I think, as I actuallyentered the business, I've been
beyond fortunate to have hadsome of the most amazing mentors
, people that I looked up to,who I looked up to, for example,
tom Clark, who has, honest togoodness, I would not be where I
am without not only hisguidance, but like his
(10:26):
encouragement.
He always made me feel, fromthe day that I was in Edmonton
and like, beg my boss to put mein a room with him that the sky
was the limit for my potential.
And sometimes when somebodyelse believes in you, when
you're at a stage in your lifewhere you don't really have the
capacity to believe that'spossible for yourself, it's like
all you need.
(10:46):
And he was really that personfor me and he's now moved on.
He's like the console generalin New York City, but he's a
wonderful journalist that always, like I could call and be like
how do I go about this?
What do I do?
And then also just like theencouragement that he provided
me even in really rough times,and so he's certainly someone I
(11:07):
looked up to.
He's gone a-freeze and over atGlobal was amazing to me as well
.
I mean, I've had so manycountless mentors in this
business.
I've been so lucky you hearhorror stories in every industry
, right, I've really had bossesalong the way Rob Russo at CBC
like people who took a vestedinterest in my success and
(11:28):
without whom I can guaranteelike I would never have attained
what I have or be able to havethese kinds of opportunities
without.
Aaron Pete (11:39):
You mentioned the old school rules of journalism.
Would you just mind elaboratinga little bit on what that is?
Vassy Kapelos (11:45):
I mean like getting the story right, I mean
like telling it without bias.
I'm sort of the way that weused to expect it to be straight
down the middle, and I don'tmean that I don't equate that
with both sizing everything andequal, you know, giving equal
weight to everybody.
I mean just this sort of likethe kind of journalism that
(12:08):
leaves you with the impressionthe person reporting does not
come at it with an agenda, andI'm not accusing people of doing
that right now, but I thinkthat certainly there is an
overall impression to thateffect and I feel like it was
less so there before socialmedia, before everybody could
see our thoughts on everything,our retweets, things like that.
(12:29):
And I love that kind ofjournalism, I think it serves a
real purpose and I feel like myaunt really exemplified it.
Aaron Pete (12:36):
This is one area I actually have just a specific
question.
That's a bit of a tangent, butI'm a really big believer in
this concept of steelmaningpositions.
And so you may have your biasesor your perspectives, but to
really put yourself in the shoesof the person you disagree with
most with the policy, you can'tstand and really go through the
(12:56):
tenets of why that might becorrect and then just at least
acknowledge and give it its due,rather than looking at the
strawman positions and going tothe talking points and really
figuring out what the argumentis for and what it is against.
And I find that that's anintellectual exercise.
It's a lot of work for peopleand so not everybody wants to do
(13:18):
that, but I find the people Ifind the most admirable are
always working to at leastunderstand.
They may not agree, but tocomprehend where the arguments
are on the other side and have awholesome understanding.
So if they get into adisagreement they can at least
validate why that person thinkswhat they think.
Vassy Kapelos (13:34):
I think that's awesome that you do that.
I think it's become even harderright now when we spend so much
of our time on social mediaplatforms that have an algorithm
that works in the exactopposite way, that has an
algorithm that reinforces yourpoint of view, and I actually
think it's one of the biggestcontributors to why it feels so
polarized, because when I meetpeople in person, they aren't
(13:57):
like that.
There are so many people whoare willing to engage, even in
debates that I have on my show,for example, of MPs of all kinds
.
They're shaking hands before,they're shaking hands after.
It's not a bloody fight to thedeath.
I think that sort of silo, thatway of living in silos, exists,
(14:19):
but I do think it's just beingamplified and reinforced to such
an incredible degree by socialmedia.
And I also think just in thatvein, that's why it's been so
important for me to have workedin other parts of the country,
particularly if I want to belike a national host or a
national reporter.
I grew up in downtown Torontosomething, by the way, I didn't
talk a lot about when I lived inall those other places, but
(14:43):
there was through.
It's not on purpose, but yougrow up with a bit of an
ignorance about the rest of thecountry, because there's so much
in Toronto that consumes youand it's an amazing city.
But I'm so happy I lived inAlberta.
I'm so happy I lived inSaskatchewan and Nova Scotia and
other parts of Ontario becauseI think that it truly has
allowed me to not be dismissiveof things that you might
(15:04):
inherently be dismissive of, andtry very hard to put myself in
the shoes of people who have acompletely different experience
growing up in this country thanI did.
Aaron Pete (15:14):
That would probably be one of my most important
things.
If I'm thinking about what Ivalue in a journalist is exactly
what you just described.
But there's also steps alongyour career path that are
standout moments and I'mwondering if you can talk about
Premier Allison Redford and thatjourney and how that story
developed.
Vassy Kapelos (15:31):
Well, I think my work in Alberta is certainly
where, if I look back now I hopeI became the reporter that I
wanted to be or that I ended upbeing, and by that I mean it's
the place where I ended up beingable to exclusively focus on
politics.
So I went into this job knowingthat's what I wanted my Ed goal
to be.
I wanted to basically be thehost of Meet the Press in Canada
(15:52):
and I remember my first bosssaid to me you shouldn't really
have such a specific goal.
You're kind of setting yourselfup for disappointment, which at
the time was fairly crashing,but not crashing enough to
prevent me from it.
And somehow I weaseled my waythrough my initial jobs into
Edmonton.
And where I worked in Edmontonwas Global Edmonton, which is
like a powerhouse local stationhighly consumed by everyone who
(16:15):
lives in Edmonton, and there,after a little while kind of
covering the night bead andstuff like that, I became the
legislative reporter and thenthe provincial affairs reporter
and my goodness, what anopportunity that was at a time.
In Alberta politics that waslike wow, everybody had told me
when I went there.
Really is that excitingpolitics.
They've had the same party andgovernment for four decades.
(16:38):
And basically I came as thatwas starting to come to an end
or now, when we look back, atleast you can see that was
coming to an end and I reallyjust like cut my cut my chops, I
guess, or cut my teeth on thepolitical scene.
There I was it.
I was the only reporter.
I stayed there every day.
I learned how to ask questions,I learned how to develop
sources and relationships thatwould allow me to get scoops,
(17:01):
and I learned how to break news,which is a huge part of what
you end up doing, particularlyas a political reporter, and one
of the stories I broke wasaround a severance that I think
Alison Redford had provided toher chief of staff both very
well known political figures nowand I did it through access to
information, another skill thatI learned while I was there, and
(17:25):
it ended up being kind of oneof the bigger stories that I
broke in Alberta, but it wasmore just like a.
It was more emblematic of allthat I learned covering politics
in that province, and it's alsothe moment where, like that
whole period of my life, waswhere I knew for certain this
was what I was meant to do andthat I was so happy that this
had ended up being my career,like there were all the little
(17:45):
doubts I had dissipatedcompletely.
Aaron Pete (17:48):
There's so many pieces to being a great
journalist.
One of them is creating a story, getting those sources of
writing it, telling it clearlyso people can understand a
complex topic.
That's kind of synthesized forpeople to be able to understand
easily.
The other piece is interviewingpeople and that's a process
where you have to be able to askfollow up questions.
When did you start to developthat skill set and understand
(18:10):
what makes a great interview?
Vassy Kapelos (18:13):
Another great question because, you're right,
they are sort of not the mostrelated skill sets.
There's a whole number ofskills that go into creating a
two minute story on a NightlyNewscast exactly the ones that
you laid out, that you kind ofover time come to perfect right.
Took me like 10 years, I think,to get kind of good at that.
I don't even know if I'd saygood, but like to feel really
comfortable and be able to get astory together fast, be good at
(18:37):
the editing process, all thatkind of stuff.
And then hosting was somethingthat, as I said, I always had
like that goal out there.
But I didn't know exactly how Iwas going to get there.
And so initially again, tomClark, who was host of the
Sunday weekly political show atGlobal and a champion of mine
when he was going away, kind ofsaid hey guys, why don't you
(18:57):
have Vashi fill in?
And so that was the beginningof it.
I mean, if I watched my initialfill ins now I would probably
be horrified.
I had.
No, it takes a really long timeto feel comfortable in the way
you're going to govern yourselfas a host and I would say, to be
honest with you, I don't thinkI felt super comfortable in that
(19:21):
until when I came back from mymat leave just a few years ago.
It was a really yeah, just itwas a really hard process, kind
of tuning out the outsidecriticism and voices either bad
or good and just relying on mygut.
It was not something that waslike instinctual.
(19:42):
It actually came over time thatI started to feel really
comfortable in the way in whichI conducted those interviews and
really sure of everything Iwanted to do in them.
And ever since that switchhappened which I've actually
never even really reflected onit ever since that switch
happened, it's like it's like ahabit for me.
Now it's not, I don't think I.
(20:03):
It's not like a stress, it'snot.
It feels much more natural, Iguess is the way to put it.
But it took a really long time.
Aaron Pete (20:10):
What were some of the things that you felt like
we're preventing you fromfeeling that comfort In the
process, because you're in aunique such situation, as I
imagine.
There are people behind thecameras watching and observing
and I'm just, for the most part,alone.
So that, coupled with socialmedia and this going out to the
globe, what was that processlike and what were some of the
(20:32):
standout challenges?
Vassy Kapelos (20:34):
Yeah, I think you've laid it out really well.
I think that it was difficultto, like I said, sort of tune
stuff out and that's not to saytune at all criticism, because
goodness knows I deserved it andand continue to but To sort of
be able to filter out what'svalid and what isn't, and what I
can improve on and what's justkind of noise.
(20:56):
I think I really struggled withthat, even like stupid things
like how I looked or how Isounded, and it was just so
sudden for me because when Iworked at global, I had hosted
the Sunday show there for awhile and the viewers were
incredibly used to me becauseI'd been on global for 10 years
in other capacities, but likenobody had ever heard of me at
(21:16):
CDC and it was a totallydifferent audience and I just
sort of always felt a little bitout of place.
I don't.
I don't know why, like peoplewho are there have been there
for so long and there's so much.
It's part of their identity andI get that because I sort of had
it at global for a long timeand so it's just this like, like
this feeling of discomfortalmost, and maybe that
(21:38):
translated into what I was likeon air or how I felt, or you
could like almost smell thedoubt or something like that,
and it almost felt at times likeI had to fake it, you know,
like I had to fake that I wasconfident enough or that I
wasn't worried about x, y or z.
And then, like I said, likesomething really, I mean, while
I was pregnant I was really sickand that started to make things
(22:00):
better as well if that soundsweird like I was Incredibly ill,
so I was less.
I was so just trying to getthrough things that I started I
stopped being as worried abouthow I was being perceived and so
that was maybe like stage one.
Then I went to mat leave andthen when I came back, I don't
know, I can't even pinpoint whatexactly changed, but I was like
I don't know.
(22:20):
Since then I just have had noissues with that kind of thing.
Aaron Pete (22:24):
Can I ask was that your first child being born
during that period?
Vassy Kapelos (22:27):
Yeah, it's my first of my only, because I was
40 when I gave birth and it wasIVF, so he was like a miracle.
I had only two.
I mean this is very detailed.
Hopefully, I only had twoembryos and, like it was just, I
was just the one shot,basically, and so he's a total
miracle.
And, yeah, it's my first time Ihave two step kids who are
(22:48):
older, who have been in my lifefor a really long time, but he's
my first kid of my own, somaybe it's the first time also
since I started my career that Itook a beat, like I took eight
months off to be with my son andI, I don't know, I just came
back like maybe with theperspective that my entire
identity was no longer wrappedup in my success in my career or
(23:10):
lack thereof, and Maybe thatwas a bit freeing, if I, if I
think about it now, and it sortof continues to be, if that
makes sense.
Aaron Pete (23:17):
That's beautiful.
Yeah, I was going to askwhether or not just an
understanding of this, thischild's Viewpoint of me, matters
much more than those peopleover there.
Those people over there likethis is what really matters in
life.
Vassy Kapelos (23:29):
Yeah, I think so, and it's funny because my mom
actually ended up passing awayand for a long time I had that
perspective after her passing,like it was very hard to just
sort of even Think am I gonnacare about my job anymore, am I
even gonna care about beingsuccessful or how much money I
make or anything, because itfelt impossible for for years
(23:50):
after she passed away.
But I don't know if this is thecase with other people who lose
people who are close to them.
Eventually it dissipates andyou can return to some of the,
the things that were normalbefore and your view of the
world before, and you get caughtup in the little things again.
And I think you're right that,basically taking a beat and
(24:10):
taking some time away andfocusing on Someone else and
their well-being versus just myown success and my team success
and all that stuff.
Then maybe it sort of acted inthe same way in a weird way as
as my mom's passing.
I've just been able to carrythat through much longer, but
that's probably because my son'sin my life all the time and and
(24:31):
like doesn't care about my jobin the least.
Aaron Pete (24:34):
Well, I'm very grateful you were willing to
share that.
The other piece aroundjournalism that I think gets
unspoken but is very noticed bypeople when it doesn't take
place is the importance of thefollow-up.
And the follow-up is so crucial.
But, as a host, I don't thinklisteners or viewers understand
how uncomfortable or howchallenging those follow-ups can
be for people.
(24:54):
I invite people to come instudio.
They've taken time out of theirday to have a conversation with
me.
I'm grateful, but I'm gonna asksome tough questions and then
I'm going to follow up if Idon't get what I believe is a
more honest or authentic orgenuine answer.
And that's a process to me as ahost that you go through
because you're you're sograteful for the time, but
(25:15):
you're also responsible to thelisteners and the viewers with
what you do with that time.
And you are a person I find themost admirable when it comes to
the follow-ups and thechallenges, because you're
incredibly Respectful, you'reincredibly kind to the person
saying like with all due respect, I have to challenge you and
hear some statistics that gocompletely against the claim you
(25:36):
just made.
When did you start to developthat and was that a challenge to
get comfortable asking thefollow-ups?
Vassy Kapelos (25:42):
I Started to develop it pretty early on at at
CBC and through my time therebecame much more comfortable
with it and I think I'm notuncomfortable with it at all.
I I actually think it's like anecessity of my job and it's the
thing I hear from most, frompeople who watch and listen.
(26:04):
They're just like I'm so gladyou didn't just let that go.
It's a balancing act, likethere's only so much, so many
follow-ups you can ask beforethe.
You know, when you're gut atthis point after this long of
doing it, that the audience kindof turns away.
But there's a, there's a sweetspot right where you can ask
follow-ups, challenge theassertions that are being made
(26:24):
and also Maybe even sometimesmore importantly in a political
sphere, point out when thereisn't an answer being provided,
which I think you can again dovery politely and respectfully.
But I know that's what theaudience is thinking they're not
answering your question becauseI hear it all the time and so
sometimes it's Important asimportant as kind of grilling
(26:44):
them or following up on thingsto just point out like that
isn't actually answering what Iasked you.
Aaron Pete (26:51):
Is that uncomfortable or at all?
Because I think about some ofthe people they're.
They're being invited on toyour show, they're being invited
on to speak to thousands andthousands of people and I'm just
thinking about, like in thosemoments where you know they're
lying or you know that they'rebending the truth to a point
where it's almost unethical orirresponsible, and like I'm just
curious, as the host, how youprocess that, having that go on
(27:16):
and then you're like I have tofollow up and sometimes you
might not always be able to prepor prepare For them, taking it
off track or trying to bend tothe truth.
Vassy Kapelos (27:25):
I mean, the first rule I think, of any good host
at this point is you have to beready to, like you go in with an
idea here's what I want to do,here's the stuff they might say
what facts do I need armed withso that I can challenge them?
But you need to be prepared tocompletely throw it out.
Like the most important thingto do is listen To what they say
in response and then, if you'vegot to go somewhere else, you
(27:45):
go somewhere else.
And to your question around,like the level of comfort I have
.
I think like the politicalsphere Imparts a bit of a
different calculation there, andby that I mean like they signed
up for this.
They are accountable toCanadians, they know it's a part
of their job.
So I'm happy that they come on,I'm grateful of them to make
time for it, but overall, likethis is what they should be
(28:07):
doing.
I I firmly kind of believe that, and not necessarily with me,
but just the sort of overallfunction of accountability, and
so I have no Quams aboutfollowing up.
I don't ever really feeluncomfortable about it and I
would feel much worse if, if Ididn't and just let them kind of
get away with not answering orNot.
(28:27):
I mean, I've don't encountertoo many lies, but certainly,
like you know, saying thingsthat are spun, big time spun.
Aaron Pete (28:35):
What is your favorite type of interview?
You have a different, a coupledifferent format styles.
What's your favorite style?
Vassy Kapelos (28:41):
So I love accountability.
There's nothing I love morethan you know somebody from some
political party be it aminister or from a different
from the opposition, coming onto you know, talk on a certain
policy or our perspective thatthey have, and you know.
Eight to ten minutes ofaccountability, that's like my
bread and butter by a millionmiles.
(29:02):
That's my favorite thing.
Aaron Pete (29:03):
Fascinating.
I'm going to get a little bitmore into the politics with a
few more questions.
And we were listening to one ofyour interviews and it was with
leader Steve McKinnon and itjust brought up a lot of
questions for me in the process.
First, I'm curious as to yourperspective on party whips.
Vassy Kapelos (29:21):
I so he's the yeah, he's the government house
leader and he used to be theparty whip, and now he's being
replaced as the party whip.
And I'm sure the reason you'reasking is because it all relates
to this rogue liberal MP whosaid these wild things about the
prime minister and his bestbefore date and then also talked
about, for example, then, 24hours later, saying I never said
(29:43):
a leadership review.
After saying leadership review.
So I mean, party whips are likea function of our democracy.
They are reflective, though, ofsomething that maybe is a
broader conversation, which isthe degree to which politicians
have to adhere to a partyphilosophy, right, the degree to
which they all have to fall inline.
(30:04):
Clearly, the whip spoke to thisgentleman, ken McDonald.
They won't tell us what theytold him to do, or what they
threatened or everything, but,lo and behold, after that
conversation he came out saying,hey, I'm not calling for a
leadership review.
So I understand the function ofit.
Certainly, from a partyperspective, I'm not like a
polyamor, but I also get it whenwe you know, there are other
(30:26):
countries, for example, evenother parliamentary democracies
I'm thinking of the UK wherethey're not as restrictive when
it comes to that process.
Now that could mean a lot moreturmoil, but at the same time
you might actually hear whatpeople think more frequently.
Aaron Pete (30:40):
That's what I was wondering is just the process of
wanting authenticity in aninterview, wanting the honest
answers, and then being able tosee liberal MP Ken McDonald give
honest answers and we finallyget some fresh perspectives and
something that surpriseseverybody, and then seeing them
be required to walk it back andwe can agree that likely party
whip met with this person but tonot get that authenticity of
(31:03):
knowing that that happened seemssomewhat disingenuous.
I understand it's a part of thesystem, but just from our role
of asking these questions itjust seems frustrating to me.
Vassy Kapelos (31:14):
Yeah, that's a really good point.
I can see why that would be thecase.
I think I'm just so used tobeing around it that maybe it
didn't.
You know what I mean.
It doesn't stick out to me inthe same way.
I would be shocked.
I mean, very infrequently dopoliticians, in particular the
government, say here's what wetalked about behind the scenes
and here's how I forced them todo it.
Like that's just, that wouldn'treally happen anywhere.
(31:34):
But I do get the point thatlike it's curious the way in
which that all unfolded andnobody's really too transparent
about it.
Aaron Pete (31:48):
But that's what I find so valuable about your show
is you very clearly laid it outof like this is what they said
yesterday and this is whatthey're saying today.
How crazy is it that in any ifyou were in your job place, you
would not accept those terms andconditions?
Yet in politics, we seem toaccept somewhat different rules.
The other one that I wanted toask just your general
(32:10):
perspective of is how leadersand politicians change who they
are in order to better reflectto the population in a way that
is more receptive, and again,it's part of the process.
I'm not calling any one personout, but seeing Pierre Paulyev
take off the glasses, switch thehaircut, switch the clothing
style to come across morerelatable, and then watching
(32:32):
Justin Trudeau, as you kind ofdescribed, go through a gambit
of different topics to see whichones are going to resonate, is
like if you did that at yourworkplace, if you did that when
you're working at a bakery, noneof that would be acceptable.
Yet we accept certain strangerules for these individuals and
I'm just curious how you processthat.
Vassy Kapelos (32:51):
Yeah, that's another great question.
I think that I'm just so used topolitics being a different
world in a way, and even whenyou kind of look at the way it
is here relative to the US orother places like it's so hard
now to tell what will resonate,what will take the glasses off
(33:11):
make a difference, like what wehear, what we do from the former
president in the United StatesLike I have no idea how to judge
that stuff anymore.
But I think, like in theCanadian context, the way in
which those leaders communicate,the way in which they appear,
the people who surround them,all of that ultimately
contributes to the impressionthat forms among Canadians.
(33:32):
And that's just the way it is,because you and I might be
paying attention in a reallygranular way outside of the
election cycle, but mostCanadians wait until an election
campaign to look that closely,and so you're competing
essentially for the creation ofan impression on the periphery.
And so those things like theoff-hand things you say, or the
(33:56):
style, the ads, the ad buys,things like that they are the
things that will really leave animpact on Canadians who are not
acting the way they wouldperhaps in a campaign when
they're paying attention toevery little policy decision
that you make.
Aaron Pete (34:10):
Right.
I think part of the reason thatI pay so close attention is
because I'm a politician myself.
I'm on council for my FirstNation community, so I'm
constantly thinking about whatdid I say leading into it and
how am I delivering for them,and is there something I could
be doing better?
And I want every politician toapproach it that way.
I have some crazy beliefs.
(34:31):
I don't think politiciansshould really make a living wage
in their role.
I go back to the way things usedto be, which was we used to
choose the greatest people inour community, in our culture,
in our society, and have themtake the lead, not for the
financial gain, but because weknow that they have something to
contribute in the guiding ofour culture and within
(34:52):
Indigenous communities.
We would look to those peoplewho could leave things better
for the next seven generations,not because it was a profitable
approach to take and becausethey were taken care of and
there'd be new opportunities.
So when I hear Justin Trudeaumay want to resign now because
there'll be more financialopportunities if he resigns now
and the doors might stay openfor him, that's like but that's
(35:12):
not why you're there.
You're there to serve at thebehest of the community that you
agreed to.
So, like just, I get veryphilosophical about it and
perhaps I wouldn't be a good jobat holding power to account
because I have some of thesenaive philosophies that don't
actually act out in the culture.
Vassy Kapelos (35:26):
They're not naive .
I think that you wantpoliticians to be in it for the
right reasons and to bettersociety through the work that
they do, and I actually am maybegoing to respond to that by
saying I think most of them are.
I'm not a cynic, and I say thatbecause I have engaged in so
many conversations outside of myjob with people from all
(35:49):
political stripes who have bigideas about things and who
initially came here reallycertainly for the right reasons.
I think that the mediaenvironment, the social media
environment in particular,brings out the worst in
everybody, and so we're leftwith an impression that runs
very counter to that.
But I have to honestly say myown perception, my own
(36:17):
interactions, my own experience,is not really in that vein.
They may be somewhat motivatedlike all of us are, if we're
being honest by our own ambition, our own egos, but I think that
the majority of them balancethat out by wanting to do good.
Now, does that always happen?
No, I'm not sure if they're init for the money.
(36:38):
I think like there's good moneybe made, but not great money
compared to a lot of the thingsthey could be doing outside of
politics.
But as for their motivation,I'm like I am.
It's gonna sound weird as likea person who grills them all the
time, but I actually think alot of them are in it for the
right reasons.
Aaron Pete (36:57):
I'm very happy to hear that.
As somebody who covers them, Ithink you have to be able to
understand their perspectives aswell.
The other piece is just aroundyouth, and I'm wondering what
your thoughts are.
Are we constantly here thatyouth are less engaged, and I'm
wondering if there's somethingto be done about that or if you
have any perspectives on that?
Vassy Kapelos (37:15):
I sort of have a split perspective on that.
Living with two I live with.
My 18-year-old stepdaughterjust started university.
I have a 13-year-old stepson.
I don't know if they are asunengaged as we might think that
they are, and I don't know ifthis is your experience as well.
I think they maybe are engagedin ways that we aren't used to
or familiar with, but I thinkthat they have a real interest
(37:37):
in justice in the world, forexample, in inequality in the
world.
They are very interested inclimate change.
Like this is my experience,obviously, with my stepkids and
their circle of friends.
But my stepdaughter went intoenvironmental geography because
she is so passionate abouttrying to be part of the
solution to mitigate the impactsof climate change.
(38:00):
Now does that translate intoreading a newspaper every day,
like I did growing up?
No, my worry is this is wherethe split comes from.
Me is that most of what she andher brother and people their
age consume comes from somethinglike TikTok and when I go on
that platform, let's say, forjust one example, with them,
(38:21):
there's a lot of falseinformation there and they don't
necessarily know that it isfalse.
There's a lot of stuff that'spresented there that is actually
blatantly false and facts thatare presented as facts that are
not, and so I'm eagerly likethat's not true, and here's why
that's not true.
Like I'm sort of like a humanfact checker for them, but they
absorb that right away, likethey're not eating at hook line
(38:43):
and sinker, but they'reinundated with a lot of stuff,
and the algorithms, again, arereinforcing a lot of those
falsities, and so my worry isnot about necessarily the level
of engagement, but what isinforming it at times, and so
that's where I would like directmy attention going forward.
But I think that I think todiscount young people because
(39:06):
they're also interested inskincare or like hanging out
with their friends, is you knowwhat I mean?
It's a disservice.
My kids, my stepkids, are asmultifaceted as anyone I've ever
known in my life and they'reintelligent and they want the
world to be a better place, andmaybe it doesn't manifest in the
exact way it did when I wasyounger, but I think they're
engaged and I just worry aboutsort of again like the
(39:31):
algorithms.
Aaron Pete (39:33):
That's absolutely fair.
Would you mind walking usthrough the different shows that
you host and what stands out toyou about them?
Vassy Kapelos (39:41):
OK, so I host a weekly political show, power
Play, every night at fiveo'clock on a CTV news network
and that is sort of like the dayof stuff.
So yesterday, for example, itwas about the questions around
Justin Trudeau's leadership thegovernment house leader was here
and sort of what they're goingto do next week when the House
of Commons returns, and by thatI mean like what is the
(40:03):
legislative agenda?
What piece of the legislationare they going to introduce and
how are they going to be focused?
So what can we expect from thegovernment Basically in the next
three or four months?
So it's like very of the moment.
I try to make it as what'shappening.
What do you need to know?
Who are the people that need tobe held account on?
What's gone on today?
And then the other show that Ihost on TV is called Question
(40:25):
Period, which is a show thatairs on Sundays and it's a bit
different in that it is the paceis like a little bit slower
than Power Play.
It's more polished, like we puta lot of effort into the
production around it because wehave the time during the week to
do that, and I really try to gofor people who will say
something that impacts theagenda in the next week.
(40:48):
So we try really hard to lookahead in our interview.
So, for example, today Iinterviewed Jodi Thomas, who's
the National Security Advisor tothe Prime Minister, until about
five o'clock tonight.
And next week the ForeignInterference Inquiry starts and
I wanted to you know, india ispart of it now, china is part of
it, and so I really wanted tointerview her about, like,
(41:09):
looking ahead to that prospectand different information that
we might not have at our handsyet, that might inform how it
plays out, how people perceiveit, all that kind of stuff.
And so I look for voices likethat that are kind of the big
and powerful voices, the peoplewho are making a big decisions
that impact us.
(41:30):
And I try to gear my line ofquestioning not just on what's
happened so far but like what'scoming up.
And the third show was a radioshow every day on all of our I
Heart News radio stations acrossthe country and that's like my
little, like fun time of the day.
I do tons of politics and Ihave amazing panels, but I also
(41:51):
do it's like a broad nationalshow, so I also do stuff that's
outside of the political arena,which is the first time in like
more than a decade that I'veever been able to do that.
So that's my new learning curve, like getting good at
interviewing people aboutscience or technology or kids.
I get to do lots of storiesthat are of interest to me
outside of my career, which hasbeen incredibly fun.
Aaron Pete (42:13):
That's fascinating, and I'm so glad that you've been
able to climb to this point.
This is something you wanted todo from the get go.
What does it mean to be able toactually live out your dream,
one of your goals from an earlyage?
What does that mean to you?
Vassy Kapelos (42:27):
I feel so lucky.
I just feel like I can'tbelieve that I am.
To be honest, it's still likesuper cheesy and emotional for
me because I feel sad that mymom never got to see it, because
we used to watch those showstogether and she was so
political and would have been soexcited that, on all her hard
work and my dad's, I've beenable to, you know, do what so
(42:50):
few people get to do.
And I just feel like I said tomy husband the other day like
you always worry in thisbusiness about getting fired.
And I said I can't believe I'mat a point in my life where if I
did get fired, it wouldn't ruinme.
Like I feel like I have been theluckiest person in the world
for 15 years.
I've had a front row seat tohistory, I've seen the world,
I've reported from all aroundthe world, I get to grill
(43:13):
politicians on a nightly basis.
Like I don't know what I did todeserve to be this fortunate,
but I feel incredibly gratefuland now I just got to figure out
what to do next.
I'm kidding.
Aaron Pete (43:28):
I really appreciate the work you do.
I watch almost all of yourshows.
I tune in.
You are the go to.
There are other shows that tryand do something similar, but in
my personal opinion they don'teven hold a candle to the work
you're doing of holdingindividuals accountable,
providing diverse perspectives,without doing that getting every
perspective in the gambit.
(43:50):
You make sure to have veryreasonable conversations and
there's all these concerns aboutwhether or not journalism is
dying or not, and I think you'reone of the people doing a very
good job of holding power toaccount, keeping an informed
democracy and helping moveCanada in the right direction by
making sure political leadersexplain themselves and give
(44:10):
reasonable answers to thequestions, and I think that
that's an admirable pursuit,that we need to uplift
individuals like yourself and beproud that you're the one
asking some of these toughquestions, because I think
that's how we improve ourculture, our society and move in
the right direction, no matterwhich party is in power.
As long as we have people likeyourself doing that work, we are
moving in the right directionlong term.
(44:31):
So I'm thankful for you thatyou were willing to do the
interview and thankful for thework that you do every day
informing our society and ourculture.
Vassy Kapelos (44:38):
Well, that's basically the nicest thing
anyone's ever said to me, soI'll take that with me for all
the years to come.
Thank you for having me, thankyou for such kind comments, and
I hope that we get to talk again.
Aaron Pete (44:48):
As do I Thank you again.
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