In this engaging episode, Marty Kendall discusses the revolutionary concept of Data Driven Fasting (DDF) and how it offers a personalized approach to determining when and what to eat. By utilizing glucose levels as a real-time fuel gauge, DDF guides individuals towards nourishing their bodies in a way that optimizes metabolic health and weight management. Marty delves into the pitfalls of long fasting periods, the importance of validating hunger signals, and the role of glucose in regulating dietary habits. Explore how DDF empowers individuals to make informed choices about their nutrition, leading to sustainable lifestyle changes and improved overall health.
Key Takeaways:
- DDF shifts the focus from strict fasting regimes to personalized eating patterns based on individual glucose responses.
- Understanding hunger cues and validating them using pre-meal glucose levels can enhance satiety and prevent overeating.
- Protein-focused meals can help stabilize blood sugar and support weight loss efforts by depleting stored energy effectively.
- Marty emphasizes the significance of balancing nutrient intake with energy consumption to promote metabolic health and efficient fuel utilization.
Resources:
Free DDF 101 Course
Join Marty's Mighty Networks Community for Access to All Programs
Blasphemous Nutrition on Substack
Work with Aimee
Photography by: Dai Ross Photography
Podcast Cover Art: Lilly Kate Creative
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey Rebels, welcome toBlasphemous Nutrition.
Consider this podcast yourpantry full of clarity,
perspective, and the nuanceneeded to counter the
superficial health advice sofreely given on the internet.
I'm Aimee, the unapologeticallycandid host of Blasphemous
Nutrition and a double degreednutritionist with 20 years
experience.
(00:22):
I'm here to share a more nuancedtake.
On living and eating well tosustain and recover your health.
If you've found most healthadvice to be so generic as to be
meaningless, We're so extremethat it's unrealistic, and you
don't mind the occasional Fbomb.
You've come to the right place.
From dissecting the latestnutrition trends to breaking
(00:43):
down published research andsharing my own clinical
experiences, I'm on a mission tofoster clarity amidst all the
confusion and empower you tohave the health you need to live
a life you love.
Now let's get started.
Aimee (01:00):
In today's episode of Blaphemous nutrition, I invite
Marty Kendall to return to thepodcast to discuss data driven,
fasting a methodology he hascreated to help people better
understand their body's glucose,sensitivity, and optimize
feeding and fasting cycles totheir biology, rather than
relying upon these arbitraryfasting hours set by
(01:22):
influencers.
In this conversation, wediscussed the benefits to
finding your personalizedglucose triggers.
The benefits and drawbacks toCGMs and what people, including
myself discover when they gothrough his data driven fasting
course.
If you're interested in DIY inyour own personal glucose
trigger, be sure to check outthe link to his free course,
(01:45):
which I've included in the shownotes for a more handheld and
customized approach, as well asto weave in what to eat
alongside, when to eat.
You can reach out to me forcustomized care or join one of
Marty's online group programs.
For specific information andsupport in finding your
(02:06):
personalized macros, micros, andglucose trigger.
I've been successfullyintegrating these concepts into
private practice with clientsfor a couple of years now and it
is absolutely thrilling to playa part in helping those with
diabetes, reach hemoglobin A1Clevels back into non-diabetic
ranges as well as normalizingthe blood sugar levels of those
(02:30):
with pre-diabetes anddramatically reducing their risk
of chronic disease down theroad.
Additionally implementing thesetools helps people lose weight
by focusing on nourishing theirbodies and understanding their
physiology better.
It is just so much healthierthan what we've been told to do
(02:51):
our entire lives.
All the info you need to learnmore will be in the show notes.
Let's get onto that interview.
You
Marty Kendall, welcome back to Blasphemous Nutrition.
Marty (03:10):
Hey, me.
Great to chat, mate.
Always fun.
We had a riot last time.
Aimee (03:14):
Yeah, we did.
Couldn't, couldn't quite getenough of it.
Marty (03:18):
And we're back.
Aimee (03:20):
And we're back.
So today, I want to, I want totalk with you a little bit about
data driven fasting.
Um, and, you know, is it, whichessentially answers the question
when to eat.
In a very personalized targetedway.
And that's what I love aboutthis is it's not a random,
(03:41):
arbitrary fast for this long,your eating window is this long,
right?
Like you've really figured outhow to tailor it to the
individual.
Marty (03:52):
Yeah, it's not really fasting.
That's the secret.
That's the dirty secret ofdietary fasting.
We, designed it as the.
Cure for people who are fastingfor too long and thinking more
is better.
And you know, I'm not makingprogress with 16 eight so go to
24 and then omad and thenextended fasting and all of a
sudden they're at this pointthey're eating for that they're
(04:14):
not eating for days at a timeand then they've lost touch with
their hunger and satiety signalsmore importantly and when they
eat again, They can't regulatehow much they eat, or even what
they eat, and I know when I wastrying the extended fasting
thing, you end up You know, yougive yourself a lot of leeway to
eat whatever you feel like atthat point because you're just
(04:36):
so darn hungry, your survivalinstincts kick in and you're
eating the peanut butter and thehoney and everything together
that tastes so good and isenergy dense and you might have
fasted for a week, but you'renot getting protein or nutrients
at that point.
So if that keeps on going.
You're going to get to the pointwhere you might be skinny.
(04:56):
You might even be skinny fat.
You might be obese with lessmuscle because you're just not
getting the protein andnutrients you need at that
point.
So, yeah, after watching mywife's CGM all the time and, uh,
now my son's Closed loop insulinpump system as well with two
type 1 diabetics in the familyjust made a lot of sense to use
(05:17):
your glucose as a fuel gauge totell you when you need to refuel
and to validate your hunger.
And yeah, about five years ago,blog post, few people found it,
started using it and it justblew up and my life changed
since then.
So yeah, it's been reallypopular.
It's been fun.
Aimee (05:33):
So, so essentially.
You're, you've done a bait andswitch where you teach fasters
to eat by marketing data forfasting.
Marty (05:44):
Yeah, yeah, that, that, that is the dirty secret.
I've done a bait and switch totry and get people to nourish
their body regularly.
Like most people come fromextended fasting to DDF and end
up eating, you know, two orthree times a day and making
progress with their weight loss.
So it's like they love itbecause it just.
frees them from not eating fordays.
(06:06):
People like eating.
People want to eat.
There's something nice abouteating with your family and, you
know, the feeling of eating andnourishing yourself.
And people want to do that.
They don't really want to noteat for days at a time,
especially if it leads them to,or a metabolic health condition.
Cause they've lost lean musclemass and yeah, that is a thing
in the long term and for themajority of people who are doing
(06:30):
fasting and a lot of them arethe postmenopausal females who
lean mass is really critical.
It's really hard to rebuild onceyou lose it.
yeah, getting the protein on aregular basis, the nutrients is
really critical.
So yeah, that's how.
Our passion to just, you know,go well down.
You don't need to not eat forthat long.
(06:51):
Maybe you need to not eateverything and anything all the
time, but we can help you findthat balance.
And there's no one right,perfect fasting regime that
works for you.
I mean, it's like, yeah, yourfriend comes and tells you that
you should refuel your car at,you This time, every third
Tuesday, it's always work forthem.
(07:13):
And it's crazy to refuel yourcar with the same routine that
works for your friend.
There's a unique routine for youbased on your fuel gauge.
Because they've got
Aimee (07:26):
the family van and you've got a mini Cooper.
Marty (07:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or vice versa.
They've got the little MiniCooper and just, you know, ride
their bike to work and justdrive to the beach on the
weekends.
And yeah, and you're driving theRange Rover.
That's a big gas guzzler.
It's you've got differentbodies, different metabolisms.
You need different foods andyour glucose is that it's the
(07:49):
most variable.
fuel source in your body thatshows up in your blood, that
signifies the fuels in the restof your body, which is really
fascinating.
So once your body fat isdepleted, your glucose comes
down because you really, yourglucose is the backup of all the
fuels in your system into yourbloodstream that you can measure
quite easily.
Aimee (08:09):
Right.
Right.
You know, I would see this, youknow, I've seen this before with
people who get excited aboutfasting or they read some of
the, some of the books or,,watch YouTube videos from people
promoting, fasting and, andthey'll start off and it looks
great and everything's fine.
And then just as you said,right, they end up fasting
themselves into a corner.
(08:31):
Where by time I'm seeing them,they're doing OMAD, fasting 20
hours a day and often alsoexercising on top of this.
And then having these chronicinjuries that they can't quite
cover from, which is limitingtheir activity.
And then their weight loss stopsand they're panicking.
(08:51):
And you have to re educate themon how to eat and the importance
of eating.
for your question.
And, depending on how longthey've been in that position,
even though they may want to eatbecause not eating worked for a
while, they're afraid to startagain.
Marty (09:10):
They're afraid of food.
Aimee (09:11):
Yeah.
And especially with, you know,if they have a history of
extreme dieting, they've alreadydone that rebound weight gain so
many times.
Marty (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and definitely the, thefasting themselves into a corner
is a good analogy because somany people, I just started
seeing on Instagram about acarnivore diet to the tune of
yesterday and carnivore, youknow, it's a magical diet that,
uh, now lean and, uh, it, uh,carnivore is great and gets you
(09:42):
tons of bioavailable protein,but the point is that online
nutrition communities becomevery dogmatic and belief based
and once you've bought intofasting and fasting is magical
and can do no wrong and all Ineed to do is not eat, yeah, you
can back yourself into a cornerwhere it's It's hard to get out
(10:04):
of.
And at that point, those peoplewho have done extended fasting
for a very long time, lost a lotof lean mass, probably a bit
skinny fat, they just need tonourish their body with enough
protein and then look at when toeat and dial things in.
So, yeah.
Aimee (10:22):
And so, how do you Why don't you explain to our
listeners how, how they knowwhere their fuel gauge is at, at
any given moment.
Marty (10:35):
Yeah, it's personalized.
There's a personalized glucosetrigger.
So all we do, we've got a datadriven fasting app that they
record the glucose before theygo to eat.
Every time they eat for threedays, and just the average of
that pre meal glucose is theirblood glucose trigger going
forward.
So, from then on, you just tryto wait until you're below that
(10:57):
glucose trigger, so you feelhungry, you go, Hmm, I feel
hungry.
Do I feel hungry enough to testmy glucose?
Yes, no.
If yes, go test.
I mean, that's a bit of a Apatent interrupt in and of
itself, which is handy becausemost people it's a bit of a
hassle.
It's not really that painful.
Once you've done it a few times,most people are afraid of it,
(11:18):
but it's actually quitepainless, especially if you do
it in your forearm where I do.
Um, but, but just considering,am I hungry?
Why am I hungry?
Am I eating for every otherreason?
Um, can.
stop you from just mindlesslysnacking and mindlessly eating
in front of the TV.
(11:38):
Um, and then you validate yourhunger.
If you're below your glucosetrigger, definitely time to
refuel, go ahead and eat.
So that's the, the cool thing.
It gives permission to people toeat and, and that it's not
fasting for longer is better.
Sometimes you definitely needto, to eat cause your glucose is
low and your other fuels arelow.
(11:59):
You need to refuel.
And if you waited for longer,you'd probably.
Get into a point where yoursurvival instincts, your
Aimeegdala, we call it Lizzy,your lizard brain comes in and
makes you eat anything andeverything.
So if you fasted for too long,um, you, you end up overeating.
(12:20):
So we want to catch that pointjust before there where you're
depleting your fuels in yourbody.
But you haven't gone for so longthat you're going to make poorer
food choices.
So your glucose helps you dothat.
And then going forward, if youmake good progress and your
average glucose before you eatis decreasing, that trigger will
continue to drop over the coming4 weeks of our data driven
(12:44):
fasting challenge, um and justhelps.
continue to push people just alittle bit, but not too much
that they back themselves into acorner again.
And, and just like in the gym,you don't lift the heaviest
weight.
You don't try to deadlift 300kilos in the first day.
You start small, you build up.
(13:06):
Same sort of process withprogressive overload for your
metabolism, but at the same timeyou need a break.
So after four weeks, we take abreak, give yourself a week or
two to eat normally again, comeback and start the process over
again.
So you're not always, um,depriving yourself and you get
to learn to eat.
Normally for a little while tomaintain your weight and then go
(13:28):
again.
So, yeah, it's just really cool.
We got 10, 000 people in ourcommunity and we've got a
million million, data points ofpremium glucose that give me a
whole lot of interesting stuffto analyze to see that.
Your pre meal glucose is themost important thing you can
manage.
Right.
It's super cool.
It's fun as an engineer to haveall the data to understand how
(13:50):
metabolism works.
Aimee (13:51):
I bet.
I imagine too, with the, FDA inthe United States approving,
CGMs for over the counter usenow without a prescription,
Marty (14:01):
uh, that's
Aimee (14:01):
coming this summer, reportedly, you can get CGM in
the States over the counter.
Marty (14:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aimee (14:06):
that will definitely reduce the barrier to entry
that, that people have.
Marty (14:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
CGMs are interesting.
Like for my wife and my son,who've got type one diabetes,
definitely a no brainer.
And especially if you're on aclosed loop insulin pump system,
CGMs can be unpredictable., youneed to calibrate them.
Every time you change thefreestyle, you need to
(14:33):
recalibrate, we can't calibratethe freestyle They're more
expensive.
So in Australia you can buy themover the counter, but nobody
does.
'cause it is like$150 for atransmitter and$120 per sensor
that lasts for, for 10 days.
So, wow.
I'm all, I'm all for biohackers,paying cost price, but they're
(14:54):
priced as medical devices, sofor our purposes in data driven
fasting, we just say use astandard old glucometer that you
can get over the counter anytime from your chemist or
Walmart or wherever, and anaccurate glucometer for our
purposes is better because it'smore accurate and you're not
always watching the littlesquiggly line on your CGM, which
(15:15):
can drive a lot of people madand every time they sneeze, and
Aimee (15:20):
Just like weighing multiple times a day,
Marty (15:22):
same
Aimee (15:24):
psychological mind mess.
Marty (15:28):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Definitely.
Um, yeah, so just, it's, it's,it's not about knowing your
glucose every moment.
It's about validating yourhunger before you eat.
Am I hungry?
Am I hungry enough to test?
Am I below trigger?
Yes, I'm good to eat.
You're giving yourselfpermission to eat.
And if you're above triggerthen, you might want to change
(15:51):
what you eat.
You want to, Focus on proteinand nutrients and dial back the
energy, because you know, you'vegot plenty of energy in your
bloodstream.
yeah, CGMs are great.
and it's good that people are,paying more attention to their
glucose and metabolic health.
And your glucose is the mostimportant thing, but a lot of
the time, You know, likeanything we devise acts to
(16:15):
satisfy what we think is theissue and people try to achieve
flatline blood sugars.
So you've got glucose goddesssaying close your carbs with fat
and you know, fat and carbs isdonut, cookie, croissant, peanut
butter, all the yummy thingsthat we overeat.
So it's a
Aimee (16:33):
terrible idea.
Keeps the glucose levels higherfor longer,
Marty (16:38):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, you've tamed you'vestabilized the glucose Which is
in some contexts a good thing,but you've done it the right
wrong way.
So Yeah, she's got millions offollowers Going, yeah, I can
tame my glucose by adding fat tomy carbs and it's so yummy and
I'm gonna lose weight becauseit's healthy.
(16:58):
And it's like, no, no, no, no.
You've, you've created thedonut.
You've changed your, you'vecreated the donut diet.
Let's, if we focus on ourglucose before we eat, primarily
everything else falls intoplace.
Once you drain your excess fatand glucose, then your glucose
becomes more stable.
(17:19):
Your weight and glucose comesdown.
Because you're losing weight andimproving your metabolic health
and everything falls into place.
You're not just taming the CGM,which you can do easily by,
Excluding all carbs and evenprotein and just drinking fat,
you'll have a stable CGM, butthe glucose will be high, your
(17:40):
waking glucose will be high, andeverything else will be, all
your markers will be messed upbecause you're just overloading
with excess energy.
Aimee (17:48):
With, with individuals who have a high degree of
insulin resistance andchronically high glucose, how,
do you have a sense with all ofthe people that have gone
through DDF?
Roughly the amount of time thatit takes for those individuals
to start seeing some resultsbecause they tend to be fairly
(18:09):
weight loss resistant.
And that's
Marty (18:13):
a funny term, but, um, I never quite understand what
weight loss resistance means.
It just means I've tried everydiet and none of them worked.
but yeah, we see really goodprogress with people who start
with a.
a higher glucose, their triggerwill fall really quickly.
They get a lot of realconfirmation that they're on the
(18:34):
right track because they can seetheir numbers moving quite
quickly.
So say there's their premiumglucose trigger starts at 200,
it'll drop down to a hundred infour weeks quite quickly.
And once they clear the glucosefrom their system, their body
gets on with using the fat.
So the oxidative priority,you've got to clear the glucose
(18:55):
from your system.
Your body as the highestpriority because you've got no
place to store that extraglucose.
So the body just churns throughthe glucose as you wait just
long enough to be tapping intothe glucose and then the body
starts burning fat.
The body doesn't turn to fat,but you know, your metabolism
turns to the fat on your bodyto, to drain that next once
(19:18):
you've started to clear theglucose.
So yeah, they make quite Rapidprogress.
Obviously, if you've got a lotof weight to lose, it'll take a
few months to get there.
But, yeah, people with type 2 goreally well with structured
process to eating, structured,uh, regime.
Aimee (19:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's what I've observed aswell, that, for individuals with
type two diabetes, they are ableto bring their blood sugars down
to levels, which theirphysicians find quite
impressive.
Marty (19:49):
So, yeah, there's a lot of, doctors after seeing the
patients use DDF, recommendingit to their other patients,
which is really encouraging.
yeah.
And insulin resistance is reallyjust, to me, we demonize insulin
a lot of way, in a lot of times.
(20:09):
And we say we blame obesity oninsulin resistance, but the fact
is that if you're insulinresistant, you're.
Fuel tanks are just over fulland as soon as you start eating
in a way that provides satietyyou get the nutrients you're
craving with, without excessenergy, your body is only too
(20:31):
willing to offload it quicklyand that weight loss can happen
quite quickly if you're on adiet.
Your body fat is filled up likea balloon and your insulin is
working overtime to try and holdback all the excess energy in
your body, where it becomes hardto lose more weight.
People who are really weightloss resistant is that
(20:54):
bodybuilder trying to get onstage in a bikini or speedos.
8 percent body fat to get from 8to 5 is a herculean effort to
get from 45 to 40 percent bodyfat is a whole lot easier.
It, it definitely, the processworks and it's just a structured
way to solve the question of, amI really hungry?
(21:15):
Do I really need to eat?
And, what do I need to nourishmy body with?
Can
Aimee (21:20):
you talk a little bit about the Don phenomenon?
Because this is something that,you know, having done.
DDF recently with you like myblood sugar is always, you know,
at air quoting here pre diabeticlevels when I wake up in the
morning, um, you know, betweenbetween like 101 and 104.
Marty (21:43):
Yep.
Aimee (21:43):
And it didn't, it doesn't, for me, it doesn't
matter if I have carbs at night,if I don't have carbs at night,
if I, even if I end up eating solittle that I wake up in the
middle of the night hungry, Iwill still have a high glucose
level, you know, what'sconsidered high.
However, I may drop down, youknow, into lower levels during
(22:05):
the day.
Marty (22:07):
Uh, yeah, I wouldn't.
For someone like you, who'sathletic and maybe on a lower
carb diet, um, 100, 104 isn'treally that high.
Um, I suppose, Couple of pointsthere, but to explain dawn
phenomenon, it's just your bodybooting up in the day.
So overnight, you go into restmode, recovery mode, your
(22:30):
glucose is low, your body wantsto store all the energy and just
give your body a rest.
But from 3, 4, 5 o'clock in themorning, a few hours before you
start to wake up, the cortisolkicks in, the glucogon kicks in,
And pushes more energy intobloodstream.
So as soon as you hit theground, you're ready to hit the
(22:50):
ground running.
so you're well fueled for theday and that's dawn phenomenon.
People who are insulin resistanttype 1 diabetics who aren't well
controlled will see a higherdawn phenomenon.
But at the same time, People ona lower carb diet tend to have
higher glucose in the morningand lower later in the day.
They seem to trend down.
(23:13):
And often athletes like yourselfwho are active, it just seems
the body wants to hold enoughglucose in your body, even if
you're on a low carb diet to beready to run at any stage to run
away from a line.
So for you, who is very activeand runs a lot, your body's
probably maintaining enoughglucose in your system to To be
(23:36):
ready for that.
so yeah, 101, 104 isn't really abig concern if your body
composition is where you want itto be,, your waist to height,
body fat, those sorts of things.
Um, yeah, so probably not a bigconcern.
Big stress, but for thosepeople, who see a high dawn
phenomenon, they're hungrysometime in the morning.
(23:58):
It doesn't have to be what'stypically called breakfast at
6am, but if they get hungry at9, 10, 11 o'clock and their
glucose is above the currenttrigger, then it's definitely a
good idea to have a proteinfocused meal at that point.
And as you said, your glucosedrops and then when you're
hungry again, your glucose is,is, you know, is down.
(24:18):
So the worst thing is to startthe day with a mocha and
croissant and it puts this, putsyour blood sugar on a
rollercoaster that's hard to getoff and you're hungry more often
and not satiated.
So protein.
At your first meal is a greathack, especially if your glucose
is higher than you want to be.
Aimee (24:38):
For sure.
For sure.
And I, on mornings when I'm notgetting up and preparing for a
run, you know, which includesquite a bit of carbohydrate.
If I do have a higher protein,lower carbohydrate breakfast,
and then I test my glucose, youknow, an hour later, it's like
it's dropped by 10 points.
Right.
Yeah.
Marty (24:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aimee (24:59):
It's a little,
Marty (25:01):
little bump of insulin from the protein.
Uh, you know, usually proteinand glucagon balance each other
out to achieve flatline bloodsugar.
If it's a little bit higher thanit needs to be, then the protein
seems to balance out.
Bump up the insulin and help youlower the glucose levels.
(25:22):
Whereas if you didn't eat, itmight keep drifting up till one
or two o'clock in the afternoon.
And then people are waiting fortoo long.
And then if your first meal's attwo and your next meal's at
eight and you've, If first mealwasn't big enough, you're going
to be super hungry at night andovereating.
So that's why we say, yeah,definitely if you can, when
(25:43):
you're first hungry, eatearlier, eat a protein focused
meal, and you're less likely tobe binging later at night, which
is on the less optimal foodchoices.
Usually
Aimee (25:55):
I did notice that too.
And there was, there was onemorning while I was doing a DDF
where I was in a hurry and I ranout the door, I had just had
coffee.
And then I was at a coworkingspace and I ordered like a
little cortado, right?
So more espresso, just a littlebit of milk, and I hadn't had
anything.
And I get home at two o'clock.
I'm famished.
(26:16):
And so, you know, I'm in D, D,F, so I take my glucose and it's
like 107 and, and I have what'sgoing on and oh, and you know,
my immediate thought was my bodyresponds so strongly with I
imagine cortisol due to thecaffeine in my system.
Yep.
Right.
And then the cortisol is justlike, you know, let's make sure,
(26:38):
there's a lot of glucose in theblood because someone's,
someone's going in for a fight.
Marty (26:43):
Yeah.
And that's how coffee works.
It sort of bumps the cortisol,um, and glucagon to push a
little bit more energy into yoursystem.
So you feel more energized andthat's, that's okay.
We're not going to telleverybody.
Yeah.
Who does DDF that they have tostop their coffee.
We probably, our membershipwould probably plummet, but you
can manage that.
You don't have to avoid, coffee.
(27:06):
You just understand that firstthing in the morning when you
have your coffee, usually yourglucose might be a bit elevated
due to dawn phenomenon and thecoffee.
And at that point, the proteinfocused breakfast is a great
idea.
We try to encourage people tonot add a ton of calories to the
coffee.
You don't want to be adding theMCT oil or the butter or the
(27:27):
sugar and milk that we tend toload.
You know, when I went toAmerica, it's crazy.
Everything you can get that'scalled coffee is just this
sickly sweet milkshake.
And it's like, oh, wow.
I just can't, I love coffee, butI couldn't tolerate.
The thousand calories that addto the drink.
It's like, wow, it just, it's,it's insane.
(27:50):
the palette is just so sweet inAmerica compared to Australia.
Aimee (27:55):
Well, everything gets a little, a little, just a little
dab of high fructose corn syrup.
Everything, you know, spaghettisauce, everything has got sugar
in it.
yeah, I think it's one of thethings that, that, When clients
start reading labels, they areabsolutely stunned, that
everything, salad dressings and,and pasta sauces and things that
(28:17):
they would expect to be healthy,even the organic ones, right,
have, oh, well, they just putorganic sugar in there instead
of high fructose corn syrup, butit has been sweetened.
Marty (28:29):
Yeah, it's crazy that the pallet just keeps on moving,
your bliss point keeps on movingaway and have to keep on chasing
it to make it a little bit moreseductive than the other
products to market share.
Aimee (28:41):
Yeah, it's pretty.
Where will
Marty (28:42):
this all end?
It's a bit dystopian.
Aimee (28:46):
I think the writing's on the wall.
It's just a matter of when andhow bad it's gonna be.
Marty (28:51):
Yeah, surprising it's not happening quicker, really.
Aimee (28:54):
Yeah, yeah.
It's, it is a testament to, Iguess to, the system feels
desperately fragile and yet itdoes continue to, to hold on.
So,
Marty (29:11):
Yeah, but then when people test their glucose, it's
the real reckoner.
They go, Oh, I didn't understandwhat that food did to my
glucose.
It rose more than 30%.
It's definitely not a good foodfor me.
And I'm going to, Oh yeah, thisfood and this food works for me.
I can work out what works forme.
And this meal allowed me to eatsooner because it dropped my
(29:33):
blood sugar like you found.
And yeah, I'll definitely keepthat in rotation.
So it's very quickly peopledevelop a personalized.
Short list of meals that theyknow work for them that are safe
and they go.
Okay.
I read the label.
I realized that they've addedtons of high fructose corn syrup
to those baked beans or thatorganic.
(29:53):
Magical healthy thing that saidhealthy, healthy, healthy on the
label, but it wasn't becauseit's got all this added stuff
that tastes good.
So I'd buy more.
And
Aimee (30:03):
one of the things I really like about that too, is
that it is very personalized,you know, some people will have.
A very strong glucose responseto say, yams, but perhaps not
rice or, you know, I was reallysurprised at how little
something that is, vilified asbeing extremely high
(30:25):
carbohydrate food, a banana.
I had a banana and it was justlike.
My body's like, yeah, whatever.
It didn't even know
Marty (30:32):
that the whole foods will digest more slowly, which is
great.
It's got the fiber with it.
It takes longer to pull apartthan the ultra processed foods
that are designed to hit yoursystem with different types of
carbs and different types of fatall at once to overdrive your
(30:52):
dopamine.
yeah, but it definitely, that'swhere CGM is really amazing
because it just.
You instantly know that thatfood doesn't work for you and
if, if, you know, one of thetype 1 diabetics in the family
accidentally get the wrong food.
You know, it's not, it's realPepsi, not diet Pepsi, you
instantly know on the CGM, youknow, it's, it's a real ready
(31:15):
wreckner of does this food workfor me, but for athletes who are
active, they're going to have,they're going to be below the
personal fat threshold and theglucose they eat will go
straight into the fuel storesrather than backing up in the
system.
But for people who are.
(31:36):
Above the personal fatthreshold, insulin resistant,
obese, you know, or however youwant to frame it.
The glucose is going to back upinto the bloodstream and show
instantly.
But that, that reverses once youdrain your fuel tanks, once you
drain the liver glycogen and thefat in your adipose tissue, and
then eventually everything youeat just goes straight into
(31:58):
storage rather than backing upinto your bloodstream, so you
see a smaller rise after youeat.
Aimee (32:05):
I'm curious with the CGMs, um, I had the benefit when
I was working in a metabolicclinic to to test out one for a
month and to see both how coolthe technology was and also the
shortcomings of the technology.
for instance, something like,taking a shower, going for a run
(32:25):
in the cold.
anything that changes thetemperature of the skin would
then have a very immediateimpact on the sensor being able
to read glucose levels or overovershooting, overestimating
glucose levels.
are the, are the ones that your,your family is using?
Are those better?
Are those better?
(32:46):
Are they, do they have higherquality CGMs for those who.
Need it, or is the tech is thetechnology across the board
still new enough that theseproblems persist.
Marty (33:00):
Yeah, the freestyle is just, you just stick it on, and
I usually can't calibrate itwith the app, so, um, I think
with some apps you can calibratethe freestyle, but with the
Dexcom, which is used for typeones typically, you can
calibrate it so after a day ortwo it's much more accurate
(33:21):
after you've done two or threeblood sugar.
tests to, to bring it into linewith the actual blood level, but
it can take a little while.
They try to calibrate them, sothey're as accurate as possible
when you stick them on, butthey're not yet.
Amazing.
And every, that's the problemwith the freestyle in data
(33:42):
driven fasting, because everytime you change a sensor, it's
out by 10 points.
So if your, your trigger was 90,and then you put on a new, um,
CGM, freestyle CGM, that's nowreading 110, because it's
miscalibrated, then BDF goes outthe window and you have to wait
a long time for your trigger andyeah, it's like, no, just use a
(34:05):
glucometer.
It's simpler, cheaper anddoesn't do your head in.
The CGMs read interstitialfluid, which is the glucose
around your muscle, which forexercising athletes may be more
useful because you'reunderstanding the fuel that's
near your muscle.
But for deciding when to eat,you sort of want to understand,
(34:27):
The blood glucose, which iscloser to your liver, which is
closer to your stomach, whichis, comes from where your food
came from.
Um, so yeah, that's wheretesting blood is a more accurate
thing.
Indicator of do I need to eatnow rather than the interstitial
fluid, which is lagged by 15minutes.
So if you want to net want toknow, do you need to eat now
(34:49):
that the blood is more timelyrather than waiting for the, The
interstitial fluid to catch up15 minutes, half an hour later.
yeah, we're trying to catch thatpoint where, yeah, I feel
hungry.
My glucose has dropped and.
Glucose can sort of go alonghappily where your liver is.
(35:10):
Fueling your blood reallyconsistently and nicely and it
gets to a point where it startsto get depleted and the glucose
can drop.
Um, so yeah, that that's theperfect point.
We want to catch it if you can.
Aimee (35:24):
With data driven fasting, what would you say is the thing
that tends to surprise peoplethe most as they're going
through the course?
I
Marty (35:34):
suppose the foods that raise the blood sugar initially,
and then for a lot of people whocome from a keto background,
that fat keeps the glucoseelevated for a very long time is
the second big surprise.
A lot of people are well awarethat.
The carbs are bad because theyraise your glucose, you want to
(35:56):
limit carbs, so they'll justfuel with fat and then they find
that the extra added oils anddressings are keeping their
glucose elevated for a very longtime, so they have to wait a
long time and you don't see thator believe that a lot of the
time until you start doing it,testing yourself and you're, oh,
(36:17):
wow, the leaner protein,nutrient dense meal, Allows me
to eat again sooner just becauseit contains less energy,
depletes my fuel tank sooner,and I can eat again sooner.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofmisconceptions in low carb keto
sphere that, fat is nearly afree food because it doesn't
(36:38):
raise insulin.
As much as carbohydrate, butover the longer term, it keeps
glucose and insulin elevatedfor, more than two hours that
we've got data for.
It just keeps on going dependingon how much you ate.
It's going to keep you fromtapping into your stored fuel on
your body.
Aimee (37:00):
Awesome.
Yeah.
One of the things that I didn'texpect was the increased
connection to my own hunger andsatiety because I, I mean, I'm,
I'm a nutritionist, right?
So I'm always thinking aboutfood and fueling and nutrients
and it's, I'd forgotten that Ihad forgotten about the hunger
(37:25):
aspect, especially when I thinkabout the mileage I put in each
week, food for me is very muchabout fueling and,, taking some
of those glucose readings andseeing oh, I'm not actually, I
feel like I should perhaps be atlike, you know, 80, 85, 86, and
(37:49):
my glucometer says I'm, 97,that's like, wow, let me see if
I can hold off a little bitmore,, and just having that,
that pause between the firstrumble, the first thought of
food, and then immediatelysatisfying that impulse.
But, you know, like tapping thebrake and just be like, well,
(38:09):
let's see what happens here.
Let's just see what happens.
You wait a little bit longer.
Marty (38:13):
It can just be a pattern interrupt to think a little bit
more deeply about your hunger.
And we call it hunger training,where people.
Observe the hunger, they noticethe true signs of hunger, they
validate it with their glucoseand then you get to the point
where you don't need thetraining wheels anymore because
you're tapped into your truehunger signals.
(38:34):
But in terms of athletes, it canalso be a real, um, Excellent
tool for people who are fuelinga lot of activity, especially
during the event and duringtraining, they can see, hey, my
glucose is dropping, I'mstarting to bonk, I definitely
need to eat more, even for the,um, marathoners, they need to
(38:57):
drop in a glucose gel earlierrather than later if they're
doing a marathon.
An Ironman triathlon and thatcan help them fine tune the
fueling.
Most people are not doingIronman triathlons or running
for more than two hours.
They're just eating normallyafter they, they do their
workout is a good idea.
But, yeah, the glucose can be apowerful guide if you use it
(39:19):
intelligently.
Aimee (39:20):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Is there anything, that wehaven't spoken about yet
regarding data driven fastingthat you want our listeners to
be aware of?
Marty (39:34):
it's just a ton of fun, and it's, it's a simple process
initially, but once you startdiving into your own glucose, a
lot of questions come up andwe've tried to unravel all
those.
We've got a 230 page manual thatgoes through all the different
scenarios and answers to all thequestions that people ask.
(39:57):
So I went to town on that towrite that.
All the answers, so I can justpoint people to them, and that
becomes a real user guide foryour metabolism once you start
trying to peek under the hoodand understand your glucose
response to fuel and activity.
It just becomes fascinating and,you understand exactly how to
fuel your body and, why you areor you aren't getting the
(40:22):
results you want.
So, yeah.
And the community is great.
That's the other thing I'd loveto plug, doing it with a group
and with, we generally haveabout six, 700 people that do it
together in each challenge eighttimes a year.
And um, yeah, it's really goodto do it with other people
because when other people aredoing it alongside you, you keep
(40:42):
going, you keep doing it.
You feel like you're not thiscrazy testing your blood sugar
at work by yourself.
You're part of the club.
I am so good at that person.
So yeah, it's cool to do it withother people and it just works.
It's a simple way to dial in.
What you eat and when you eatand we've got the macros and
(41:04):
micros masterclasses that wetalked about last time.
If you want to take it to thenext level, but that involves
tracking food and most peopledon't want to do that.
So DDF is a really simple way ofunderstanding your fuel tanks
and when you need to eat, whenyou don't need to eat.
Aimee (41:22):
It is.
That is another thing Iappreciate about it because food
logging is, Deeply triggeringfor some people and you know as
we alluded before you can alsotake glucose testing to that
level as well where it becomes abit, emotionally pathological,
uh, But it but it is really niceto simplify the process of
(41:44):
determining when to eat, andjust Putting what to eat on the
side, or if you already know foryou, what is good for you, then
like one fact checking it withyour glucometer, like, is it
clearly what is right for me?
And then not having to focusthat much detail on the, what to
(42:05):
eat instead.
Just yeah.
Marty (42:10):
Yeah, that's cool.
And, and yeah, validating andunderstanding your hunger I
think is, is the biggest thingand just being hungry enough, to
eat and once you understand yourtrue hunger, you understand
satiety as well, when you'refull, when you've had enough and
then it becomes less of a, youknow, binge deprived cycle that
(42:34):
tends to go on and on.
So you just find that rightbalance that works for you based
on data.
Yeah.
Aimee (42:40):
I think one of the things too that I appreciate about the
group is that, uh, there's that,that, that caution at the start,
like, don't, don't wait toolong, even if your glucose is
higher than your trigger, itwill, it will bite you in the
back end, right?
Yeah.
When that lizard brain goes off,it's so much harder to control
(43:02):
the runaway beast.
So.
Marty (43:04):
Yeah, definitely.
Aimee (43:05):
And having that.
That warning at the onset andthen I think most people have
that first hand experience atsome point through DDF where it
waited too long or somethinghappened.
I think it takes the, it canhelp take the emotional judgment
Marty (43:23):
out
Aimee (43:24):
of what is essentially a biological occurrence.
Right.
And we've been taught throughdiet culture to be ashamed
because it shows our lack ofwillpower because you know,
this, that, and the other.
But when you have that, thatfeedback from the mindfulness of
(43:48):
watching your blood sugar,having a target, but getting
ahead of yourself.
and having that, having,basically wanting your target to
be lower before your body isready for it to be lower.
And then having to get schooledand like, just let your body do
what it needs to do.
It's a process.
(44:09):
Yeah.
And
Marty (44:09):
that's, that's what we have to tell people all the time
is don't rush.
Don't try too hard.
And when people try too hard,they, oh, my trigger's dropping
and it's great.
Tried too hard, ended up in abinge, and now my glucose is
elevated.
It's an incremental process, andthere is no failure.
(44:29):
There's just learningexperience, and if you have a
big blowout weekend where youovereat, you go, Okay, it's
gonna take me a few days todeplete that extra fuel from my
body.
I understand.
Next time I'll be more cautiouswhen I go to a party and won't
overdo it.
And because I know how my bodyworks.
And like you said, there's nojudgment because it's just data.
(44:50):
That's how I feel my body.
And my, I love my body becauseit's trying to keep me alive.
My lizard instincts are tryingto keep me alive.
It's not about failure.
It's not about, I'm a bad personbecause I wanted to eat a donut.
I wanted to eat the donutbecause I tried too hard to be
good.
So.
Yeah, it's just finding that,that balance without judgment,
(45:11):
using data.
Aimee (45:13):
Yeah, the body tends to really not respond well when we
try and push it too hard.
Marty (45:18):
No, no, that's a good thing.
That's why we're still herebecause It's
Aimee (45:22):
true.
Marty (45:23):
Our prefrontal cortex would have wanted to be, I
thought, to be super lean andathletic, etc.
But we have a break and we havea survival instinct that keeps
us alive, which is a good thing.
Aimee (45:38):
Yeah.
One more time, where can peoplefind you if they want to look
for you on DDF?
Marty (45:43):
Yeah, there's heaps of stuff out there, we've got a
free Data Driven Fasting 101course that people can check
out.
Use the app, try the app, whichyou'll find when you Google DDF.
And we've got our amazingcommunity that's just clicked
over 10, 000 people.
10, 000 optimizers who are onthe same path and trying to help
(46:05):
each other.
So if you go to the OptimizingNutrition website and go to the
member login section in the topright, you'll get to that and
you'll, you'll be one of us andhave a whole ton of fun with the
little club that's all testingthe blood sugars and trying to
maximize satiety and getnutrients from the food they eat
rather than supplements.
(46:27):
Yeah, it's great community.
Yeah.
It is.
And it's super cool that youhang out and encourage everybody
and say, this is the best thingever.
I love it.
This is the thing I should havebeen taught in nutrition school
that nobody taught me with.
I'll say that with my dyingbreath.
Aimee (46:43):
I'm just glad.
I'm just glad I, I found it, you
Marty (46:49):
know,
Aimee (46:50):
yeah, that's, that's so
Marty (46:51):
cool.
Thanks Aimee for all yoursupport and, uh, yeah, getting
the word out there.
Aimee (46:56):
Always.
Always.
Happy to have you again.
Thanks
Marty (46:59):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Chat soon.
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(47:21):
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Hey Rebels, welcome toBlasphemous Nutrition.
Consider this podcast yourpantry full of clarity,
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I'm Aimee, the unapologeticallycandid host of Blasphemous
Nutrition and a double degreednutritionist with 20 years
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(00:22):
I'm here to share a more nuancedtake.
On living and eating well tosustain and recover your health.
If you've found most healthadvice to be so generic as to be
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From dissecting the latestnutrition trends to breaking
(00:43):
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a life you love.
Now let's get started.
Aimee (01:00):
In today's episode of Blaphemous nutrition, I invite
Marty Kendall to return to thepodcast to discuss data driven,
fasting a methodology he hascreated to help people better
understand their body's glucose,sensitivity, and optimize
feeding and fasting cycles totheir biology, rather than
relying upon these arbitraryfasting hours set by
(01:22):
influencers.
In this conversation, wediscussed the benefits to
finding your personalizedglucose triggers.
The benefits and drawbacks toCGMs and what people, including
myself discover when they gothrough his data driven fasting
course.
If you're interested in DIY inyour own personal glucose
trigger, be sure to check outthe link to his free course,
(01:45):
which I've included in the shownotes for a more handheld and
customized approach, as well asto weave in what to eat
alongside, when to eat.
You can reach out to me forcustomized care or join one of
Marty's online group programs.
For specific information andsupport in finding your
(02:06):
personalized macros, micros, andglucose trigger.
I've been successfullyintegrating these concepts into
private practice with clientsfor a couple of years now and it
is absolutely thrilling to playa part in helping those with
diabetes, reach hemoglobin A1Clevels back into non-diabetic
ranges as well as normalizingthe blood sugar levels of those
(02:30):
with pre-diabetes anddramatically reducing their risk
of chronic disease down theroad.
Additionally implementing thesetools helps people lose weight
by focusing on nourishing theirbodies and understanding their
physiology better.
It is just so much healthierthan what we've been told to do
(02:51):
our entire lives.
All the info you need to learnmore will be in the show notes.
Let's get onto that interview.
You
Marty Kendall, welcome back to Blasphemous Nutrition.
Marty (03:10):
Hey, me.
Great to chat, mate.
Always fun.
We had a riot last time.
Aimee (03:14):
Yeah, we did.
Couldn't, couldn't quite getenough of it.
Marty (03:18):
And we're back.
Aimee (03:20):
And we're back.
So today, I want to, I want totalk with you a little bit about
data driven fasting.
Um, and, you know, is it, whichessentially answers the question
when to eat.
In a very personalized targetedway.
And that's what I love aboutthis is it's not a random,
(03:41):
arbitrary fast for this long,your eating window is this long,
right?
Like you've really figured outhow to tailor it to the
individual.
Marty (03:52):
Yeah, it's not really fasting.
That's the secret.
That's the dirty secret ofdietary fasting.
We, designed it as the.
Cure for people who are fastingfor too long and thinking more
is better.
And you know, I'm not makingprogress with 16 eight so go to
24 and then omad and thenextended fasting and all of a
sudden they're at this pointthey're eating for that they're
(04:14):
not eating for days at a timeand then they've lost touch with
their hunger and satiety signalsmore importantly and when they
eat again, They can't regulatehow much they eat, or even what
they eat, and I know when I wastrying the extended fasting
thing, you end up You know, yougive yourself a lot of leeway to
eat whatever you feel like atthat point because you're just
(04:36):
so darn hungry, your survivalinstincts kick in and you're
eating the peanut butter and thehoney and everything together
that tastes so good and isenergy dense and you might have
fasted for a week, but you'renot getting protein or nutrients
at that point.
So if that keeps on going.
You're going to get to the pointwhere you might be skinny.
(04:56):
You might even be skinny fat.
You might be obese with lessmuscle because you're just not
getting the protein andnutrients you need at that
point.
So, yeah, after watching mywife's CGM all the time and, uh,
now my son's Closed loop insulinpump system as well with two
type 1 diabetics in the familyjust made a lot of sense to use
(05:17):
your glucose as a fuel gauge totell you when you need to refuel
and to validate your hunger.
And yeah, about five years ago,blog post, few people found it,
started using it and it justblew up and my life changed
since then.
So yeah, it's been reallypopular.
It's been fun.
Aimee (05:33):
So, so essentially.
You're, you've done a bait andswitch where you teach fasters
to eat by marketing data forfasting.
Marty (05:44):
Yeah, yeah, that, that, that is the dirty secret.
I've done a bait and switch totry and get people to nourish
their body regularly.
Like most people come fromextended fasting to DDF and end
up eating, you know, two orthree times a day and making
progress with their weight loss.
So it's like they love itbecause it just.
frees them from not eating fordays.
(06:06):
People like eating.
People want to eat.
There's something nice abouteating with your family and, you
know, the feeling of eating andnourishing yourself.
And people want to do that.
They don't really want to noteat for days at a time,
especially if it leads them to,or a metabolic health condition.
Cause they've lost lean musclemass and yeah, that is a thing
in the long term and for themajority of people who are doing
(06:30):
fasting and a lot of them arethe postmenopausal females who
lean mass is really critical.
It's really hard to rebuild onceyou lose it.
yeah, getting the protein on aregular basis, the nutrients is
really critical.
So yeah, that's how.
Our passion to just, you know,go well down.
You don't need to not eat forthat long.
(06:51):
Maybe you need to not eateverything and anything all the
time, but we can help you findthat balance.
And there's no one right,perfect fasting regime that
works for you.
I mean, it's like, yeah, yourfriend comes and tells you that
you should refuel your car at,you This time, every third
Tuesday, it's always work forthem.
(07:13):
And it's crazy to refuel yourcar with the same routine that
works for your friend.
There's a unique routine for youbased on your fuel gauge.
Because they've got
Aimee (07:26):
the family van and you've got a mini Cooper.
Marty (07:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or vice versa.
They've got the little MiniCooper and just, you know, ride
their bike to work and justdrive to the beach on the
weekends.
And yeah, and you're driving theRange Rover.
That's a big gas guzzler.
It's you've got differentbodies, different metabolisms.
You need different foods andyour glucose is that it's the
(07:49):
most variable.
fuel source in your body thatshows up in your blood, that
signifies the fuels in the restof your body, which is really
fascinating.
So once your body fat isdepleted, your glucose comes
down because you really, yourglucose is the backup of all the
fuels in your system into yourbloodstream that you can measure
quite easily.
Aimee (08:09):
Right.
Right.
You know, I would see this, youknow, I've seen this before with
people who get excited aboutfasting or they read some of
the, some of the books or,,watch YouTube videos from people
promoting, fasting and, andthey'll start off and it looks
great and everything's fine.
And then just as you said,right, they end up fasting
themselves into a corner.
(08:31):
Where by time I'm seeing them,they're doing OMAD, fasting 20
hours a day and often alsoexercising on top of this.
And then having these chronicinjuries that they can't quite
cover from, which is limitingtheir activity.
And then their weight loss stopsand they're panicking.
(08:51):
And you have to re educate themon how to eat and the importance
of eating.
for your question.
And, depending on how longthey've been in that position,
even though they may want to eatbecause not eating worked for a
while, they're afraid to startagain.
Marty (09:10):
They're afraid of food.
Aimee (09:11):
Yeah.
And especially with, you know,if they have a history of
extreme dieting, they've alreadydone that rebound weight gain so
many times.
Marty (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and definitely the, thefasting themselves into a corner
is a good analogy because somany people, I just started
seeing on Instagram about acarnivore diet to the tune of
yesterday and carnivore, youknow, it's a magical diet that,
uh, now lean and, uh, it, uh,carnivore is great and gets you
(09:42):
tons of bioavailable protein,but the point is that online
nutrition communities becomevery dogmatic and belief based
and once you've bought intofasting and fasting is magical
and can do no wrong and all Ineed to do is not eat, yeah, you
can back yourself into a cornerwhere it's It's hard to get out
(10:04):
of.
And at that point, those peoplewho have done extended fasting
for a very long time, lost a lotof lean mass, probably a bit
skinny fat, they just need tonourish their body with enough
protein and then look at when toeat and dial things in.
So, yeah.
Aimee (10:22):
And so, how do you Why don't you explain to our
listeners how, how they knowwhere their fuel gauge is at, at
any given moment.
Marty (10:35):
Yeah, it's personalized.
There's a personalized glucosetrigger.
So all we do, we've got a datadriven fasting app that they
record the glucose before theygo to eat.
Every time they eat for threedays, and just the average of
that pre meal glucose is theirblood glucose trigger going
forward.
So, from then on, you just tryto wait until you're below that
(10:57):
glucose trigger, so you feelhungry, you go, Hmm, I feel
hungry.
Do I feel hungry enough to testmy glucose?
Yes, no.
If yes, go test.
I mean, that's a bit of a Apatent interrupt in and of
itself, which is handy becausemost people it's a bit of a
hassle.
It's not really that painful.
Once you've done it a few times,most people are afraid of it,
(11:18):
but it's actually quitepainless, especially if you do
it in your forearm where I do.
Um, but, but just considering,am I hungry?
Why am I hungry?
Am I eating for every otherreason?
Um, can.
stop you from just mindlesslysnacking and mindlessly eating
in front of the TV.
(11:38):
Um, and then you validate yourhunger.
If you're below your glucosetrigger, definitely time to
refuel, go ahead and eat.
So that's the, the cool thing.
It gives permission to people toeat and, and that it's not
fasting for longer is better.
Sometimes you definitely needto, to eat cause your glucose is
low and your other fuels arelow.
(11:59):
You need to refuel.
And if you waited for longer,you'd probably.
Get into a point where yoursurvival instincts, your
Aimeegdala, we call it Lizzy,your lizard brain comes in and
makes you eat anything andeverything.
So if you fasted for too long,um, you, you end up overeating.
(12:20):
So we want to catch that pointjust before there where you're
depleting your fuels in yourbody.
But you haven't gone for so longthat you're going to make poorer
food choices.
So your glucose helps you dothat.
And then going forward, if youmake good progress and your
average glucose before you eatis decreasing, that trigger will
continue to drop over the coming4 weeks of our data driven
(12:44):
fasting challenge, um and justhelps.
continue to push people just alittle bit, but not too much
that they back themselves into acorner again.
And, and just like in the gym,you don't lift the heaviest
weight.
You don't try to deadlift 300kilos in the first day.
You start small, you build up.
(13:06):
Same sort of process withprogressive overload for your
metabolism, but at the same timeyou need a break.
So after four weeks, we take abreak, give yourself a week or
two to eat normally again, comeback and start the process over
again.
So you're not always, um,depriving yourself and you get
to learn to eat.
Normally for a little while tomaintain your weight and then go
(13:28):
again.
So, yeah, it's just really cool.
We got 10, 000 people in ourcommunity and we've got a
million million, data points ofpremium glucose that give me a
whole lot of interesting stuffto analyze to see that.
Your pre meal glucose is themost important thing you can
manage.
Right.
It's super cool.
It's fun as an engineer to haveall the data to understand how
(13:50):
metabolism works.
Aimee (13:51):
I bet.
I imagine too, with the, FDA inthe United States approving,
CGMs for over the counter usenow without a prescription,
Marty (14:01):
uh, that's
Aimee (14:01):
coming this summer, reportedly, you can get CGM in
the States over the counter.
Marty (14:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aimee (14:06):
that will definitely reduce the barrier to entry
that, that people have.
Marty (14:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
CGMs are interesting.
Like for my wife and my son,who've got type one diabetes,
definitely a no brainer.
And especially if you're on aclosed loop insulin pump system,
CGMs can be unpredictable., youneed to calibrate them.
Every time you change thefreestyle, you need to
(14:33):
recalibrate, we can't calibratethe freestyle They're more
expensive.
So in Australia you can buy themover the counter, but nobody
does.
'cause it is like$150 for atransmitter and$120 per sensor
that lasts for, for 10 days.
So, wow.
I'm all, I'm all for biohackers,paying cost price, but they're
(14:54):
priced as medical devices, sofor our purposes in data driven
fasting, we just say use astandard old glucometer that you
can get over the counter anytime from your chemist or
Walmart or wherever, and anaccurate glucometer for our
purposes is better because it'smore accurate and you're not
always watching the littlesquiggly line on your CGM, which
(15:15):
can drive a lot of people madand every time they sneeze, and
Aimee (15:20):
Just like weighing multiple times a day,
Marty (15:22):
same
Aimee (15:24):
psychological mind mess.
Marty (15:28):
Yeah, definitely, definitely.
Definitely.
Um, yeah, so just, it's, it's,it's not about knowing your
glucose every moment.
It's about validating yourhunger before you eat.
Am I hungry?
Am I hungry enough to test?
Am I below trigger?
Yes, I'm good to eat.
You're giving yourselfpermission to eat.
And if you're above triggerthen, you might want to change
(15:51):
what you eat.
You want to, Focus on proteinand nutrients and dial back the
energy, because you know, you'vegot plenty of energy in your
bloodstream.
yeah, CGMs are great.
and it's good that people are,paying more attention to their
glucose and metabolic health.
And your glucose is the mostimportant thing, but a lot of
the time, You know, likeanything we devise acts to
(16:15):
satisfy what we think is theissue and people try to achieve
flatline blood sugars.
So you've got glucose goddesssaying close your carbs with fat
and you know, fat and carbs isdonut, cookie, croissant, peanut
butter, all the yummy thingsthat we overeat.
So it's a
Aimee (16:33):
terrible idea.
Keeps the glucose levels higherfor longer,
Marty (16:38):
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So yeah, you've tamed you'vestabilized the glucose Which is
in some contexts a good thing,but you've done it the right
wrong way.
So Yeah, she's got millions offollowers Going, yeah, I can
tame my glucose by adding fat tomy carbs and it's so yummy and
I'm gonna lose weight becauseit's healthy.
(16:58):
And it's like, no, no, no, no.
You've, you've created thedonut.
You've changed your, you'vecreated the donut diet.
Let's, if we focus on ourglucose before we eat, primarily
everything else falls intoplace.
Once you drain your excess fatand glucose, then your glucose
becomes more stable.
(17:19):
Your weight and glucose comesdown.
Because you're losing weight andimproving your metabolic health
and everything falls into place.
You're not just taming the CGM,which you can do easily by,
Excluding all carbs and evenprotein and just drinking fat,
you'll have a stable CGM, butthe glucose will be high, your
(17:40):
waking glucose will be high, andeverything else will be, all
your markers will be messed upbecause you're just overloading
with excess energy.
Aimee (17:48):
With, with individuals who have a high degree of
insulin resistance andchronically high glucose, how,
do you have a sense with all ofthe people that have gone
through DDF?
Roughly the amount of time thatit takes for those individuals
to start seeing some resultsbecause they tend to be fairly
(18:09):
weight loss resistant.
And that's
Marty (18:13):
a funny term, but, um, I never quite understand what
weight loss resistance means.
It just means I've tried everydiet and none of them worked.
but yeah, we see really goodprogress with people who start
with a.
a higher glucose, their triggerwill fall really quickly.
They get a lot of realconfirmation that they're on the
(18:34):
right track because they can seetheir numbers moving quite
quickly.
So say there's their premiumglucose trigger starts at 200,
it'll drop down to a hundred infour weeks quite quickly.
And once they clear the glucosefrom their system, their body
gets on with using the fat.
So the oxidative priority,you've got to clear the glucose
(18:55):
from your system.
Your body as the highestpriority because you've got no
place to store that extraglucose.
So the body just churns throughthe glucose as you wait just
long enough to be tapping intothe glucose and then the body
starts burning fat.
The body doesn't turn to fat,but you know, your metabolism
turns to the fat on your bodyto, to drain that next once
(19:18):
you've started to clear theglucose.
So yeah, they make quite Rapidprogress.
Obviously, if you've got a lotof weight to lose, it'll take a
few months to get there.
But, yeah, people with type 2 goreally well with structured
process to eating, structured,uh, regime.
Aimee (19:37):
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's what I've observed aswell, that, for individuals with
type two diabetes, they are ableto bring their blood sugars down
to levels, which theirphysicians find quite
impressive.
Marty (19:49):
So, yeah, there's a lot of, doctors after seeing the
patients use DDF, recommendingit to their other patients,
which is really encouraging.
yeah.
And insulin resistance is reallyjust, to me, we demonize insulin
a lot of way, in a lot of times.
(20:09):
And we say we blame obesity oninsulin resistance, but the fact
is that if you're insulinresistant, you're.
Fuel tanks are just over fulland as soon as you start eating
in a way that provides satietyyou get the nutrients you're
craving with, without excessenergy, your body is only too
(20:31):
willing to offload it quicklyand that weight loss can happen
quite quickly if you're on adiet.
Your body fat is filled up likea balloon and your insulin is
working overtime to try and holdback all the excess energy in
your body, where it becomes hardto lose more weight.
People who are really weightloss resistant is that
(20:54):
bodybuilder trying to get onstage in a bikini or speedos.
8 percent body fat to get from 8to 5 is a herculean effort to
get from 45 to 40 percent bodyfat is a whole lot easier.
It, it definitely, the processworks and it's just a structured
way to solve the question of, amI really hungry?
(21:15):
Do I really need to eat?
And, what do I need to nourishmy body with?
Can
Aimee (21:20):
you talk a little bit about the Don phenomenon?
Because this is something that,you know, having done.
DDF recently with you like myblood sugar is always, you know,
at air quoting here pre diabeticlevels when I wake up in the
morning, um, you know, betweenbetween like 101 and 104.
Marty (21:43):
Yep.
Aimee (21:43):
And it didn't, it doesn't, for me, it doesn't
matter if I have carbs at night,if I don't have carbs at night,
if I, even if I end up eating solittle that I wake up in the
middle of the night hungry, Iwill still have a high glucose
level, you know, what'sconsidered high.
However, I may drop down, youknow, into lower levels during
(22:05):
the day.
Marty (22:07):
Uh, yeah, I wouldn't.
For someone like you, who'sathletic and maybe on a lower
carb diet, um, 100, 104 isn'treally that high.
Um, I suppose, Couple of pointsthere, but to explain dawn
phenomenon, it's just your bodybooting up in the day.
So overnight, you go into restmode, recovery mode, your
(22:30):
glucose is low, your body wantsto store all the energy and just
give your body a rest.
But from 3, 4, 5 o'clock in themorning, a few hours before you
start to wake up, the cortisolkicks in, the glucogon kicks in,
And pushes more energy intobloodstream.
So as soon as you hit theground, you're ready to hit the
(22:50):
ground running.
so you're well fueled for theday and that's dawn phenomenon.
People who are insulin resistanttype 1 diabetics who aren't well
controlled will see a higherdawn phenomenon.
But at the same time, People ona lower carb diet tend to have
higher glucose in the morningand lower later in the day.
They seem to trend down.
(23:13):
And often athletes like yourselfwho are active, it just seems
the body wants to hold enoughglucose in your body, even if
you're on a low carb diet to beready to run at any stage to run
away from a line.
So for you, who is very activeand runs a lot, your body's
probably maintaining enoughglucose in your system to To be
(23:36):
ready for that.
so yeah, 101, 104 isn't really abig concern if your body
composition is where you want itto be,, your waist to height,
body fat, those sorts of things.
Um, yeah, so probably not a bigconcern.
Big stress, but for thosepeople, who see a high dawn
phenomenon, they're hungrysometime in the morning.
(23:58):
It doesn't have to be what'stypically called breakfast at
6am, but if they get hungry at9, 10, 11 o'clock and their
glucose is above the currenttrigger, then it's definitely a
good idea to have a proteinfocused meal at that point.
And as you said, your glucosedrops and then when you're
hungry again, your glucose is,is, you know, is down.
(24:18):
So the worst thing is to startthe day with a mocha and
croissant and it puts this, putsyour blood sugar on a
rollercoaster that's hard to getoff and you're hungry more often
and not satiated.
So protein.
At your first meal is a greathack, especially if your glucose
is higher than you want to be.
Aimee (24:38):
For sure.
For sure.
And I, on mornings when I'm notgetting up and preparing for a
run, you know, which includesquite a bit of carbohydrate.
If I do have a higher protein,lower carbohydrate breakfast,
and then I test my glucose, youknow, an hour later, it's like
it's dropped by 10 points.
Right.
Yeah.
Marty (24:57):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Aimee (24:59):
It's a little,
Marty (25:01):
little bump of insulin from the protein.
Uh, you know, usually proteinand glucagon balance each other
out to achieve flatline bloodsugar.
If it's a little bit higher thanit needs to be, then the protein
seems to balance out.
Bump up the insulin and help youlower the glucose levels.
(25:22):
Whereas if you didn't eat, itmight keep drifting up till one
or two o'clock in the afternoon.
And then people are waiting fortoo long.
And then if your first meal's attwo and your next meal's at
eight and you've, If first mealwasn't big enough, you're going
to be super hungry at night andovereating.
So that's why we say, yeah,definitely if you can, when
(25:43):
you're first hungry, eatearlier, eat a protein focused
meal, and you're less likely tobe binging later at night, which
is on the less optimal foodchoices.
Usually
Aimee (25:55):
I did notice that too.
And there was, there was onemorning while I was doing a DDF
where I was in a hurry and I ranout the door, I had just had
coffee.
And then I was at a coworkingspace and I ordered like a
little cortado, right?
So more espresso, just a littlebit of milk, and I hadn't had
anything.
And I get home at two o'clock.
I'm famished.
(26:16):
And so, you know, I'm in D, D,F, so I take my glucose and it's
like 107 and, and I have what'sgoing on and oh, and you know,
my immediate thought was my bodyresponds so strongly with I
imagine cortisol due to thecaffeine in my system.
Yep.
Right.
And then the cortisol is justlike, you know, let's make sure,
(26:38):
there's a lot of glucose in theblood because someone's,
someone's going in for a fight.
Marty (26:43):
Yeah.
And that's how coffee works.
It sort of bumps the cortisol,um, and glucagon to push a
little bit more energy into yoursystem.
So you feel more energized andthat's, that's okay.
We're not going to telleverybody.
Yeah.
Who does DDF that they have tostop their coffee.
We probably, our membershipwould probably plummet, but you
can manage that.
You don't have to avoid, coffee.
(27:06):
You just understand that firstthing in the morning when you
have your coffee, usually yourglucose might be a bit elevated
due to dawn phenomenon and thecoffee.
And at that point, the proteinfocused breakfast is a great
idea.
We try to encourage people tonot add a ton of calories to the
coffee.
You don't want to be adding theMCT oil or the butter or the
(27:27):
sugar and milk that we tend toload.
You know, when I went toAmerica, it's crazy.
Everything you can get that'scalled coffee is just this
sickly sweet milkshake.
And it's like, oh, wow.
I just can't, I love coffee, butI couldn't tolerate.
The thousand calories that addto the drink.
It's like, wow, it just, it's,it's insane.
(27:50):
the palette is just so sweet inAmerica compared to Australia.
Aimee (27:55):
Well, everything gets a little, a little, just a little
dab of high fructose corn syrup.
Everything, you know, spaghettisauce, everything has got sugar
in it.
yeah, I think it's one of thethings that, that, When clients
start reading labels, they areabsolutely stunned, that
everything, salad dressings and,and pasta sauces and things that
(28:17):
they would expect to be healthy,even the organic ones, right,
have, oh, well, they just putorganic sugar in there instead
of high fructose corn syrup, butit has been sweetened.
Marty (28:29):
Yeah, it's crazy that the pallet just keeps on moving,
your bliss point keeps on movingaway and have to keep on chasing
it to make it a little bit moreseductive than the other
products to market share.
Aimee (28:41):
Yeah, it's pretty.
Where will
Marty (28:42):
this all end?
It's a bit dystopian.
Aimee (28:46):
I think the writing's on the wall.
It's just a matter of when andhow bad it's gonna be.
Marty (28:51):
Yeah, surprising it's not happening quicker, really.
Aimee (28:54):
Yeah, yeah.
It's, it is a testament to, Iguess to, the system feels
desperately fragile and yet itdoes continue to, to hold on.
So,
Marty (29:11):
Yeah, but then when people test their glucose, it's
the real reckoner.
They go, Oh, I didn't understandwhat that food did to my
glucose.
It rose more than 30%.
It's definitely not a good foodfor me.
And I'm going to, Oh yeah, thisfood and this food works for me.
I can work out what works forme.
And this meal allowed me to eatsooner because it dropped my
(29:33):
blood sugar like you found.
And yeah, I'll definitely keepthat in rotation.
So it's very quickly peopledevelop a personalized.
Short list of meals that theyknow work for them that are safe
and they go.
Okay.
I read the label.
I realized that they've addedtons of high fructose corn syrup
to those baked beans or thatorganic.
(29:53):
Magical healthy thing that saidhealthy, healthy, healthy on the
label, but it wasn't becauseit's got all this added stuff
that tastes good.
So I'd buy more.
And
Aimee (30:03):
one of the things I really like about that too, is
that it is very personalized,you know, some people will have.
A very strong glucose responseto say, yams, but perhaps not
rice or, you know, I was reallysurprised at how little
something that is, vilified asbeing extremely high
(30:25):
carbohydrate food, a banana.
I had a banana and it was justlike.
My body's like, yeah, whatever.
It didn't even know
Marty (30:32):
that the whole foods will digest more slowly, which is
great.
It's got the fiber with it.
It takes longer to pull apartthan the ultra processed foods
that are designed to hit yoursystem with different types of
carbs and different types of fatall at once to overdrive your
(30:52):
dopamine.
yeah, but it definitely, that'swhere CGM is really amazing
because it just.
You instantly know that thatfood doesn't work for you and
if, if, you know, one of thetype 1 diabetics in the family
accidentally get the wrong food.
You know, it's not, it's realPepsi, not diet Pepsi, you
instantly know on the CGM, youknow, it's, it's a real ready
(31:15):
wreckner of does this food workfor me, but for athletes who are
active, they're going to have,they're going to be below the
personal fat threshold and theglucose they eat will go
straight into the fuel storesrather than backing up in the
system.
But for people who are.
(31:36):
Above the personal fatthreshold, insulin resistant,
obese, you know, or however youwant to frame it.
The glucose is going to back upinto the bloodstream and show
instantly.
But that, that reverses once youdrain your fuel tanks, once you
drain the liver glycogen and thefat in your adipose tissue, and
then eventually everything youeat just goes straight into
(31:58):
storage rather than backing upinto your bloodstream, so you
see a smaller rise after youeat.
Aimee (32:05):
I'm curious with the CGMs, um, I had the benefit when
I was working in a metabolicclinic to to test out one for a
month and to see both how coolthe technology was and also the
shortcomings of the technology.
for instance, something like,taking a shower, going for a run
(32:25):
in the cold.
anything that changes thetemperature of the skin would
then have a very immediateimpact on the sensor being able
to read glucose levels or overovershooting, overestimating
glucose levels.
are the, are the ones that your,your family is using?
Are those better?
Are those better?
(32:46):
Are they, do they have higherquality CGMs for those who.
Need it, or is the tech is thetechnology across the board
still new enough that theseproblems persist.
Marty (33:00):
Yeah, the freestyle is just, you just stick it on, and
I usually can't calibrate itwith the app, so, um, I think
with some apps you can calibratethe freestyle, but with the
Dexcom, which is used for typeones typically, you can
calibrate it so after a day ortwo it's much more accurate
(33:21):
after you've done two or threeblood sugar.
tests to, to bring it into linewith the actual blood level, but
it can take a little while.
They try to calibrate them, sothey're as accurate as possible
when you stick them on, butthey're not yet.
Amazing.
And every, that's the problemwith the freestyle in data
(33:42):
driven fasting, because everytime you change a sensor, it's
out by 10 points.
So if your, your trigger was 90,and then you put on a new, um,
CGM, freestyle CGM, that's nowreading 110, because it's
miscalibrated, then BDF goes outthe window and you have to wait
a long time for your trigger andyeah, it's like, no, just use a
(34:05):
glucometer.
It's simpler, cheaper anddoesn't do your head in.
The CGMs read interstitialfluid, which is the glucose
around your muscle, which forexercising athletes may be more
useful because you'reunderstanding the fuel that's
near your muscle.
But for deciding when to eat,you sort of want to understand,
(34:27):
The blood glucose, which iscloser to your liver, which is
closer to your stomach, whichis, comes from where your food
came from.
Um, so yeah, that's wheretesting blood is a more accurate
thing.
Indicator of do I need to eatnow rather than the interstitial
fluid, which is lagged by 15minutes.
So if you want to net want toknow, do you need to eat now
(34:49):
that the blood is more timelyrather than waiting for the, The
interstitial fluid to catch up15 minutes, half an hour later.
yeah, we're trying to catch thatpoint where, yeah, I feel
hungry.
My glucose has dropped and.
Glucose can sort of go alonghappily where your liver is.
(35:10):
Fueling your blood reallyconsistently and nicely and it
gets to a point where it startsto get depleted and the glucose
can drop.
Um, so yeah, that that's theperfect point.
We want to catch it if you can.
Aimee (35:24):
With data driven fasting, what would you say is the thing
that tends to surprise peoplethe most as they're going
through the course?
I
Marty (35:34):
suppose the foods that raise the blood sugar initially,
and then for a lot of people whocome from a keto background,
that fat keeps the glucoseelevated for a very long time is
the second big surprise.
A lot of people are well awarethat.
The carbs are bad because theyraise your glucose, you want to
(35:56):
limit carbs, so they'll justfuel with fat and then they find
that the extra added oils anddressings are keeping their
glucose elevated for a very longtime, so they have to wait a
long time and you don't see thator believe that a lot of the
time until you start doing it,testing yourself and you're, oh,
(36:17):
wow, the leaner protein,nutrient dense meal, Allows me
to eat again sooner just becauseit contains less energy,
depletes my fuel tank sooner,and I can eat again sooner.
So, yeah, there's a lot ofmisconceptions in low carb keto
sphere that, fat is nearly afree food because it doesn't
(36:38):
raise insulin.
As much as carbohydrate, butover the longer term, it keeps
glucose and insulin elevatedfor, more than two hours that
we've got data for.
It just keeps on going dependingon how much you ate.
It's going to keep you fromtapping into your stored fuel on
your body.
Aimee (37:00):
Awesome.
Yeah.
One of the things that I didn'texpect was the increased
connection to my own hunger andsatiety because I, I mean, I'm,
I'm a nutritionist, right?
So I'm always thinking aboutfood and fueling and nutrients
and it's, I'd forgotten that Ihad forgotten about the hunger
(37:25):
aspect, especially when I thinkabout the mileage I put in each
week, food for me is very muchabout fueling and,, taking some
of those glucose readings andseeing oh, I'm not actually, I
feel like I should perhaps be atlike, you know, 80, 85, 86, and
(37:49):
my glucometer says I'm, 97,that's like, wow, let me see if
I can hold off a little bitmore,, and just having that,
that pause between the firstrumble, the first thought of
food, and then immediatelysatisfying that impulse.
But, you know, like tapping thebrake and just be like, well,
(38:09):
let's see what happens here.
Let's just see what happens.
You wait a little bit longer.
Marty (38:13):
It can just be a pattern interrupt to think a little bit
more deeply about your hunger.
And we call it hunger training,where people.
Observe the hunger, they noticethe true signs of hunger, they
validate it with their glucoseand then you get to the point
where you don't need thetraining wheels anymore because
you're tapped into your truehunger signals.
(38:34):
But in terms of athletes, it canalso be a real, um, Excellent
tool for people who are fuelinga lot of activity, especially
during the event and duringtraining, they can see, hey, my
glucose is dropping, I'mstarting to bonk, I definitely
need to eat more, even for the,um, marathoners, they need to
(38:57):
drop in a glucose gel earlierrather than later if they're
doing a marathon.
An Ironman triathlon and thatcan help them fine tune the
fueling.
Most people are not doingIronman triathlons or running
for more than two hours.
They're just eating normallyafter they, they do their
workout is a good idea.
But, yeah, the glucose can be apowerful guide if you use it
(39:19):
intelligently.
Aimee (39:20):
Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.
Is there anything, that wehaven't spoken about yet
regarding data driven fastingthat you want our listeners to
be aware of?
Marty (39:34):
it's just a ton of fun, and it's, it's a simple process
initially, but once you startdiving into your own glucose, a
lot of questions come up andwe've tried to unravel all
those.
We've got a 230 page manual thatgoes through all the different
scenarios and answers to all thequestions that people ask.
(39:57):
So I went to town on that towrite that.
All the answers, so I can justpoint people to them, and that
becomes a real user guide foryour metabolism once you start
trying to peek under the hoodand understand your glucose
response to fuel and activity.
It just becomes fascinating and,you understand exactly how to
fuel your body and, why you areor you aren't getting the
(40:22):
results you want.
So, yeah.
And the community is great.
That's the other thing I'd loveto plug, doing it with a group
and with, we generally haveabout six, 700 people that do it
together in each challenge eighttimes a year.
And um, yeah, it's really goodto do it with other people
because when other people aredoing it alongside you, you keep
(40:42):
going, you keep doing it.
You feel like you're not thiscrazy testing your blood sugar
at work by yourself.
You're part of the club.
I am so good at that person.
So yeah, it's cool to do it withother people and it just works.
It's a simple way to dial in.
What you eat and when you eatand we've got the macros and
(41:04):
micros masterclasses that wetalked about last time.
If you want to take it to thenext level, but that involves
tracking food and most peopledon't want to do that.
So DDF is a really simple way ofunderstanding your fuel tanks
and when you need to eat, whenyou don't need to eat.
Aimee (41:22):
It is.
That is another thing Iappreciate about it because food
logging is, Deeply triggeringfor some people and you know as
we alluded before you can alsotake glucose testing to that
level as well where it becomes abit, emotionally pathological,
uh, But it but it is really niceto simplify the process of
(41:44):
determining when to eat, andjust Putting what to eat on the
side, or if you already know foryou, what is good for you, then
like one fact checking it withyour glucometer, like, is it
clearly what is right for me?
And then not having to focusthat much detail on the, what to
(42:05):
eat instead.
Just yeah.
Marty (42:10):
Yeah, that's cool.
And, and yeah, validating andunderstanding your hunger I
think is, is the biggest thingand just being hungry enough, to
eat and once you understand yourtrue hunger, you understand
satiety as well, when you'refull, when you've had enough and
then it becomes less of a, youknow, binge deprived cycle that
(42:34):
tends to go on and on.
So you just find that rightbalance that works for you based
on data.
Yeah.
Aimee (42:40):
I think one of the things too that I appreciate about the
group is that, uh, there's that,that, that caution at the start,
like, don't, don't wait toolong, even if your glucose is
higher than your trigger, itwill, it will bite you in the
back end, right?
Yeah.
When that lizard brain goes off,it's so much harder to control
(43:02):
the runaway beast.
So.
Marty (43:04):
Yeah, definitely.
Aimee (43:05):
And having that.
That warning at the onset andthen I think most people have
that first hand experience atsome point through DDF where it
waited too long or somethinghappened.
I think it takes the, it canhelp take the emotional judgment
Marty (43:23):
out
Aimee (43:24):
of what is essentially a biological occurrence.
Right.
And we've been taught throughdiet culture to be ashamed
because it shows our lack ofwillpower because you know,
this, that, and the other.
But when you have that, thatfeedback from the mindfulness of
(43:48):
watching your blood sugar,having a target, but getting
ahead of yourself.
and having that, having,basically wanting your target to
be lower before your body isready for it to be lower.
And then having to get schooledand like, just let your body do
what it needs to do.
It's a process.
(44:09):
Yeah.
And
Marty (44:09):
that's, that's what we have to tell people all the time
is don't rush.
Don't try too hard.
And when people try too hard,they, oh, my trigger's dropping
and it's great.
Tried too hard, ended up in abinge, and now my glucose is
elevated.
It's an incremental process, andthere is no failure.
(44:29):
There's just learningexperience, and if you have a
big blowout weekend where youovereat, you go, Okay, it's
gonna take me a few days todeplete that extra fuel from my
body.
I understand.
Next time I'll be more cautiouswhen I go to a party and won't
overdo it.
And because I know how my bodyworks.
And like you said, there's nojudgment because it's just data.
(44:50):
That's how I feel my body.
And my, I love my body becauseit's trying to keep me alive.
My lizard instincts are tryingto keep me alive.
It's not about failure.
It's not about, I'm a bad personbecause I wanted to eat a donut.
I wanted to eat the donutbecause I tried too hard to be
good.
So.
Yeah, it's just finding that,that balance without judgment,
(45:11):
using data.
Aimee (45:13):
Yeah, the body tends to really not respond well when we
try and push it too hard.
Marty (45:18):
No, no, that's a good thing.
That's why we're still herebecause It's
Aimee (45:22):
true.
Marty (45:23):
Our prefrontal cortex would have wanted to be, I
thought, to be super lean andathletic, etc.
But we have a break and we havea survival instinct that keeps
us alive, which is a good thing.
Aimee (45:38):
Yeah.
One more time, where can peoplefind you if they want to look
for you on DDF?
Marty (45:43):
Yeah, there's heaps of stuff out there, we've got a
free Data Driven Fasting 101course that people can check
out.
Use the app, try the app, whichyou'll find when you Google DDF.
And we've got our amazingcommunity that's just clicked
over 10, 000 people.
10, 000 optimizers who are onthe same path and trying to help
(46:05):
each other.
So if you go to the OptimizingNutrition website and go to the
member login section in the topright, you'll get to that and
you'll, you'll be one of us andhave a whole ton of fun with the
little club that's all testingthe blood sugars and trying to
maximize satiety and getnutrients from the food they eat
rather than supplements.
(46:27):
Yeah, it's great community.
Yeah.
It is.
And it's super cool that youhang out and encourage everybody
and say, this is the best thingever.
I love it.
This is the thing I should havebeen taught in nutrition school
that nobody taught me with.
I'll say that with my dyingbreath.
Aimee (46:43):
I'm just glad.
I'm just glad I, I found it, you
Marty (46:49):
know,
Aimee (46:50):
yeah, that's, that's so
Marty (46:51):
cool.
Thanks Aimee for all yoursupport and, uh, yeah, getting
the word out there.
Aimee (46:56):
Always.
Always.
Happy to have you again.
Thanks
Marty (46:59):
Thank you.
Thank you.
Chat soon.
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entertainment purposes only andis not to be misconstrued as
offering medical advice.
Listening to this podcast doesnot constitute a provider client
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Note, I'm not a doctor nor anurse, and it is imperative that
(47:21):
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Be a smart human and do notdisregard or postpone obtaining
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(48:28):
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