Cognitive Skills Conversations: Highlights from the Special Series

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Amy Moore (00:00):
Hi, smart moms and dads, welcome to a special
episode of the Brainy Momspodcast.
We're going to talk aboutcognitive skills because they
are so important.
They are the skills that thebrain uses all day, every day,
for thinking and learning.
So the most commonly knowngeneral categories of cognitive

(00:20):
skills are things like memory,working memory and long-term
memory.
Attention processing speed thespeed in which we're able to
process incoming information.
Reasoning skills, our logicskills, auditory processing,
which is how we process language.
Visual processing, which is ourability to manipulate what we

(00:42):
see.
So visualization type skills,spatial sense, and so those are
the basic categories ofcognitive skills.
And so why are they important?
Well, if we don't have strongcognitive skills, then we're
going to struggle with thinkingand learning.

Sandy Zamalis (01:02):
What does that look like, for example, in terms
of like a struggle withthinking and learning?
Because what if you have, youknow, a student or a child who's
doing really, really well, butthey just have one little hiccup
or issue that you're seeingLike?
What does that look like ifthere's an issue there?

Yeah, so I'd love to do a demonstration.
There's an issue there.
Yeah, so I'd love to do ademonstration.
So you know, you and I, when wetalk to parents about what it
is that we do, we do ademonstration so that they can
see and feel.
You know what the intersectionof all of these cognitive skills
looks like.
Right, so can I put you on thespot?

(01:42):
Yes, all right.
So in just a second I'm goingto ask you to spell the last
name of the 16th presidentbackwards.
Now, the 16th president is theone who gave the Gettysburg
Address.
Right?
There's my tip for you.
All right, so I'm going to askyou to do it.

(02:04):
You can't use paper or pencil,right, you just have to use your
brain.
All right, but I'm only goingto give you 10 seconds to do it.
Ready.

Go N-L-O-C-N-I-L.
Yeah, lincoln, lincoln, youwere fast.
I had to like figure it out,like oh shoot, do I remember
where the 16th president was?
But I got it.

Exactly.
So?
Let's talk about that, allright.
So what skills did Sandy haveto use?
What cognitive skills did Sandyhave to use to complete that
task?
Well, the first thing she hadto do is remember who the 16th
president was.
That's long-term memory.
Now imagine if she had not beenable to remember who the 16th
president was, she would nothave been able to do that task

(02:52):
at all.
She couldn't even get started.
All right.
But Sandy remembered it, allright.
So she engaged her long-termmemory.
But then she had to decide on astrategy for solving this
problem.
So that was reasoning.
She had to engage her reasoningskills to determine the
strategy.
Now, most people would projectthe word Lincoln either in the

(03:14):
air or just in their minds,right?
Which did you do, sandy, in mymind?
Okay, so that is visualprocessing, right, so you
project this imaginary image inyour mind or in the air to help
you solve the problem, all right.
Well, the next thing that Sandydid is she started spelling the

(03:36):
word, but she had to spell itbackwards.
So she had to manipulate thesounds in the name Lincoln.
That's auditory processing.
Right, so her ability tomanipulate sounds in our
language.
But she had to remember whereshe was in the word, because she
was going backwards, right.
So that was working memory,right.
She had to engage her workingmemory, which is your ability to

(03:59):
work on information, right,while holding something in your
mind, and so she wasmanipulating those sounds.
So about halfway through thatword, she might have gotten
frustrated Sandy didn't, but alot of people would so you have
to really engage your attentionskills in order to get through.
I only told her she had 10seconds.

(04:21):
She only had 10 seconds tosolve that problem, so she had
to work fast.
So that's processing speed, thespeed in which she could
process that information andthen produce the answer.
All right, so long-term memory,working memory, attention,
visual processing, auditoryprocessing and reasoning, and so
she used all of those skills inthat 10-second task.

(04:43):
And so if we break that downand say, what if she had had a
weakness in some of those skillsin that 10-second task?
And so if we break that downand say, what if she had had a
weakness in some of thosecognitive skills?
Well, we already said whatwould happen if your long-term
memory was bad.
You wouldn't have been able tosolve it at all.
What if your processing speedwas kind of deficient?
What would have happened?

Oh, I probably would have forgot the question.

It would have caused my working memory to drop
, yeah absolutely, or youwouldn't have been able to
finish it in the time that Iallotted.
Yeah, right, okay.
What if your visual processingskills?

weren't strong.
Well, you told me I couldn'twrite it down, but I would have.
Yeah, I would have had to, liketry to use my finger or
something to help me.

Right.
So if Sandy had not been ableto visualize the word Lincoln
because her visual processingskills were weak, she would have
really struggled, because Iwouldn't let her use a pen or
pencil for that task.
All right, what if yourauditory processing skills had
been weak?

Oh, that would have been really tricky.
In fact I was working it bysyllable.
Oh, that would have been reallytricky.
In fact I was like working itby syllable ling cun.
So I was trying to chunk it sothat I could manage that a
little easier.
And if I couldn't even figureout the syllables in the word to
let alone the sounds that withit, because there's a hidden L
in there.

Right, Absolutely so.
Most people don't realize thatthe key to reading and spelling
are strong auditory processingskills.
We think reading is visual.
Okay, well, reading is visual,but the foundation for strong
reading is your ability tomanipulate sounds and their

(06:17):
associated letters in theEnglish language.
And that's auditory processing.
Okay.
What if you had weak reasoningskills?

Oh, I wouldn't even know.

would have known how to start, I probably would
have got stuck right there Right, because you had to decide on a
strategy and then, if you hadhad weak attention skills, what
might have happened?

I probably would have had to ask for the question
again.

Yeah, so either she wouldn't have caught it the
first time, right, because shedidn't attend to my instructions
, or sometimes that frustrationkicks in when something's hard
and then you lose your abilityto pay attention and so she
might have just given up, right,lost motivation, or given up
because she just couldn'tremember where she was.

(07:03):
Or and that was the last skill,right If your working memory
was weak, then you would havelost track of where you were in
the word.
So you can see, then, from thatreally simple demonstration how
our cognitive skills interactand work together to help us
think or learn, and that if wehave a weakness in even just one

(07:27):
of those cognitive skills, itcan create a struggle, and most
people have at least one weakcognitive skill, but kids who
are struggling in school usuallyhave two or three weak
cognitive skills.

Well, I'm really excited about this and we're
really going to dig down on eachskill individually.
We're talking about attention,which is my favorite skill to
talk about because it's I callit the gatekeeper of all skills.
So most people think of focuswhen they think of attention,
but it's actually morecomplicated than that.
Right, let's dig into that.
What does?
What is attention?

(08:02):
Are there different pieces toattention that a parent kind of
needs to know about?

Yeah.
So attention is pretty complex.
I mean overall, if you think ofan overall attention umbrella,
that is, the brain's allocationof processing resources towards
something like so, towards atask or a stimulus, towards

(08:29):
something like so, towards atask or a stimulus.
So there are multiple types ofattention that researchers have
identified Selective attention,divided attention, sustained
attention are the primary ones.
Sustained attention is theability to focus on a stimulus
or a task for an extended periodof time.
So that's what we think of whenwe think of focus.

Right, it's sustaining those cognitive
resources towards something whenwould you see, for example,
with your child, if they had aweakness in that area.
What would kind of stand out toyou?

a weakness in that area?
What would kind of stand out toyou?
Yeah, so the key to sustainedattention is the ability to keep
focused on a task without beingdistracted.
So the ability to go from startto finish on a homework
assignment or reading a chapterwithout getting distracted by
something else happening in yourimmediate environment or even
from your imagination and otherthings, can impact sustained

(09:29):
attention too.
So if you're tired, right then,even if you don't have a
deficit in sustained attention,you might temporarily have a
struggle with it.
You know, if you're tired, ifyou're not feeling well or if
you're hungry.

How about selective attention?
What is that?

Yeah.
So selective attention is yourbrain's ability to attend to the
most important task or stimuli.
So it's the ability to say, hey, there are four things going on
in the environment around meright now and I can pay
attention to the one, that Ineed to pay attention to, the

(10:14):
one that's most importantsetting.

So a child sitting in a classroom and
they're supposed to be listeningto the teacher, but the kid
behind them is clicking theirpen or chewing gum.
There's movement to the right.
There's a bird flew by to theleft.
Is that what you mean byselective attention?

(10:40):
To be able to focus in that onezone, I need to be listening to
the teacher in front of me inthat one zone.

I need to be listening to the teacher in
front of me.
That's exactly right.
So it's the ability for thebrain to kind of automatically
say the teacher's voice is themost important stimulus or the
most important thing happeningin my immediate environment that
I need to be paying attentionto, and tune out all of those

(11:07):
distractors or those things thataren't really relevant at home.
So let's say your child isdoing homework but you're
cooking dinner.
Their sibling is talking on thephone, right, and so selective
attention would mean they canfocus on doing their homework

(11:27):
while ignoring the pots and pansclanking in the kitchen and
their siblings' conversation.

Okay, so the third one was divided attention.
What does that one look?

like yeah, so divided attention is the ability
to process more than one thingat the same time or to have the
cognitive flexibility to rapidlyswitch between those two
demanding tasks or stimulus.

(11:58):
So, for example, let's say youare cooking something and
reading a recipe at the sametime.
So it's the ability to read therecipe and crack the egg and
whip it at the same time.
Those are competing tasks,right, like so?
Reading and then, of course,comprehending what you're

(12:21):
reading, while also using yourmotor skills to crack the egg,
whip the egg, and then wheredoes it go next?

Well, let's talk about ADHD specifically.
You did a study on ADHD.
What did you find aboutattention and other cognitive
skill relationships?

Yeah, we've actually done a couple studies
on ADHD, but we did a really bigone on more than 4,000 people
with ADHD from ages 4 through 40.
And we looked at theircognitive profiles, right, and
what we saw consistently acrossage groups from age 4 through 40
was that attention was notactually the weakest cognitive

(13:02):
skill in ADHD.
Working memory, long-termmemory and processing speed were
weaker than attention.
The reason why that study wasso interesting and exciting at
the same time is that when wethink of helping kids or adults
with ADHD, we think, okay, whatcan we do to help their
attention?

(13:23):
We think, okay, what can we doto help their attention when, if
we're only focused on attention, then we're kind of missing the
boat on really helping all ofthose struggles.
Right, that we're also needingto focus on memory and
processing speed issues as well,and so.
But those are going to show upLike this is not something that
you're not already seeing.
Maybe you just don't have alabel for it, right?

(13:45):
Let's say, you give your childa three-step direction, right?
Hey, I need you to go upstairs,brush your teeth and put your
pajamas on.
Okay, three steps Go upstairs.
Second step brush your teeth.
Third step put your pajamas on.
That requires working memory,and so you have to attend to the

(14:06):
instruction initially, but thenyou have to remember what the
instruction is as you're walkingup the stairs.
So not only do you have toremember what comes next, what
have I already done, what werethe three things that I was
supposed to do?
And so when you see your childnot be able to complete all
three steps, that's clearly amemory problem.

(14:26):
The other issue is, let's say,30 minutes have gone by.
Right, it could be a processingspeed problem.
If your child is a slowprocessor, right, then that
requires long-term memory.
Then, to keep track of allthree steps, right, that isn't
happening.
Bam, bam bam.
That is happening over theperiod of 30 minutes, and
they've already forgotten thethird step by then.

What are the two memory skills and how do we need
them to learn?

Okay.
So short-term working memory isour ability to to capture
information, hold it and dosomething with it in the
immediate term.
So it's our ability to hear hey, I need you to add 23 to 46.

(15:18):
So we have to remember the twonumbers.
Then we have to add themtogether and produce a sum.

That is an example of how we would use
short-term working memory.
So you talked the way you justexplained it.
That's actually an auditoryside of that memory too.

Is there a visual side to that?
Absolutely so.
A good example of visualworking memory would be looking
at a map while you're drivingsomewhere and saying, okay, I'm
going to have to turn right onSmith Street and left on 7th
Street and then right again onJohnson Street, and then putting
your map away so that you cansafely drive and pay attention

(16:00):
to the road, but being able toremember what the street names
were and which way you'resupposed to turn while you're
driving.
So that would be visual workingmemory.

Okay.
So what I like to share withparents a lot of times is
working memory.
Is that memory that you needwhen you're telling your kids
they need to go grab theirschool bag, go brush their teeth
, get their shoes on, grab theirwater bottle and meet me in the
car?

Yes, is that a good example?
That's going to be sequentialauditory working memory, right?
So you're giving them asequence of tasks that they need
to remember and act on.
You're actually expecting yourchild to act on something that
you've said and that requiresstrong auditory working memory.

I bring that as an example with parents a lot,
because that's a frustrationpoint right at home when you
give your child tasks and theyhave a hard time following
through on them and when workingmemory is weak, what does that
look like for the child?

working memory is weak.
What does that look like forthe child?
Yeah, so not only is it asource of frustration for the
parent, you better believe it'sa source of frustration for the
child.
And so we have to be supercareful as parents to stay calm,

(17:35):
right and help our kids byeither giving them less steps
right to remember Like, if weknow our child has weak working
memory, then why are weoverloading them?
And so that's one way that wecan help is just to not give

(17:56):
them five steps.
Let's give them two steps andsee if they can do that and then
give them the next two.
But of course we can alsoremediate that memory right
through memory trainingexercises.
So we don't want it to be anaccommodation forever, but it is
the first step to help reducethat frustration for both child
and parent.

Okay, so maybe that's a good transition to talk
about, well, what is long-termmemory?

Yeah, so long-term memory is the brain's
process of taking in information, encoding it and banking it
away for later use.
And so typically thehippocampus is the part of the
brain where memories areprocessed and stored, and so

(18:42):
again it takes attention skills,because if we can't attend to
something then we can't rememberit, and so we have to be able
to pay attention to somethingbefore the brain can actually
encode it in some way to bank itaway for later use and
retrieval.

(19:02):
So long-term memory is atwo-part process, right Encoding
it, banking it away and thenbeing able to retrieve it later.
So a long-term memory weaknesscould be in the receiving of the
information or in the retrievalof that information later.

Okay.
So one of the examples I try togive parents and let me know if
I've got this right is I thinkof it like a test-taking memory
skill.
So I've studied all week, I getto the test.
Can I then retrieve theinformation that I need for the
test?
Because sometimes parents willsay we studied, he had it, he

(19:41):
had it the night before and thenhe didn't do well on the test
the next day.
Now there could be a lot ofreasons for that, but it could
also be that it didn't bankright, it didn't get stuck in
that long-term memory.
So testing can kind of help usfigure that out.
But is that kind of a goodscenario, thinking about as the
test-taking memory?
Can you take that information,hold it long enough to then use

(20:04):
it when you need to, for exampleon the day of a test?

Right.
I think that's a great exampleand it gives us the opportunity
to talk about, hey, what couldhave happened?
Right, so for mom to say he knewit last night, right, but it
has to be consolidated and thathappens during sleep.
And so let's say you studied itand you were able to regurgitate

(20:30):
it back to your mom as she wasquizzing you last night, but
then you didn't get quality,restorative sleep sleep right,
maybe?
Because after you studied, youdecided to log onto the computer
and game for three hours.

(20:50):
You were drinking a monster,you know caffeine drink while
you were gaming for three hours,and so you might've thought
that you got restorative sleepfor the three hours prior to
waking up for school.
But if you didn't, right, so ifyou didn't get restorative
sleep, then those memories mightnot have been consolidated.
So sleep is super important forthat process and it actually

(21:14):
demonstrates how, when collegestudents pull an all-nighter
right, they literally havestudied it and gone straight to
the class and regurgitated it.
But if they had stayed up allnight and then class and
regurgitated it, but if they hadstayed up all night and then
had to regurgitate it the nextday, they might not have been
able to.

They want to make experience.
That dump, right.
I remember that in college.

Right, you take the test and then gone, Gone Two
weeks later gone Right, becauseyou didn't get to consolidate
those memories right afterstudying, and so that's why it's
super important to even take anap without a brain injury, to

(22:01):
have a true long-term memorydeficit.
So there's usually somethinghappening in the environment
that is keeping that child fromencoding that information into
long-term memory.
So it isn't that theirhippocampus is broken, right,
it's that something's happeningin the encoding process that's
preventing them from banking itaway.
And so then we have to look atso are we flooding them with too

(22:25):
much information at one time?
Are there too many thingshappening that maybe, if this
child has an attention problem,right, that they're paying
attention to all of the wrongthings and not the one thing we
need them to pay attention to.
And then it also goes back toare they stressed, are they
sleeping, are they eating?

(22:47):
Well, because it's a holisticissue when there's a long-term
memory deficit, typically, Okay,that's a really great point.

So let's talk about, let's switch gears a
little bit.
So let's kind of get to thebasics what is processing speed?
What do you mean?

Yeah, so processing speed is the brain's
ability to take in information,interpret that information and
then act on that information.
So, for example, let's sayyou're driving and you see a
stop sign.
So that is visual input thatthe brain has to recognize, take

(23:28):
it in, say oh, that's a stopsign.
What does a stop sign mean?
A stop sign means I need tostop.
And then the brain says to thebody press the brakes, stop
right.
So acquire it, interpret it andthen act on it.
That would be processing speed.

So let's extrapolate that you gave a
great driving example.
What does that look like in afive-year-old?
What does that look like inschool-age children?

look like in school-age children.
So we use processing speed toinquire, interpret and act on
anything in our environment,right?
So processing speed isubiquitous, right, we need it
for interpreting anything fromour parents saying, hey, it's
time for dinner, right, so thatwould be okay.
I recognize my mom's voice.

(24:23):
Her voice is saying words, soI'm hearing those words.
What did she just say to me?
Hey, it's time to come down fordinner, and now I need to act
on that.
I have to put down what I'mworking on, walk down the stairs
and walk into the kitchen fordinner.
So as simple as that.

(24:44):
To a teacher teaching a mathproblem Okay, I see my teacher
writing numbers on the board.
This is what those numbers meanand this is what she's telling
me I need to do to those numbersin order to solve this problem.
And so it's the speed andefficiency in which I can take

(25:05):
that in, interpret it and thenact on it.
And so some people who haveslow processing speed might take
a really long time to react tothe information, and so we don't
know whether it's a breakdownin acquiring it, interpreting it
or acting on it, but somewherein that three-step process there

(25:27):
is something slowing it down,and so that's how we might see
slow processing speed show up.

So when we talk about processing speed, we
always talk about it as kind ofin that cohort of automatic
processing skills.
What does that mean?
It's running behind the scenesall the time, right.

Some cognitive skills that we use require
active processing, such asreasoning.
We have to decide on atechnique that we're going to
use to solve this problem, basedon prior knowledge and prior
experience of what we know andtechniques that we've learned in

(26:10):
order to solve problems.
Processing speed is workingunderneath that process how
quickly we're able to retrievethose different techniques for
solving a problem, how quicklywe're able to act on those
techniques for solving a problem.
While reasoning is a higherorder cognitive skill,

(26:32):
processing speed is automatic.
It is just how quickly thosewheels are turning underneath
how we've chosen to drive thecar.

How can that affect attention?

Yes, so if our processing speed is slow and we
have low attention skills, thenit's very easy to become
distracted because it's takingtoo long.
If the underlying processingspeed is slow, then that

(27:06):
attention can be impacted.

So that's really important to know because from,
for example, a teacher'sperspective, if a teacher's
giving feedback to a parent thishappened to me this week where
I was doing a consultation witha parent and the feedback they
were getting was that theirchild just really had a hard
time focusing.
But when we did some testing,while there was some attentional

(27:32):
component to it, there was aweak processing speed component
to it as well, and that was justa really important piece of
information and I think ateacher could be empowered by
knowing well they're processingslower.
I might need to change how I amgiving the information so that
they can receive it more clearlyand can process it at their

(27:54):
pace.

Yeah, absolutely, and so sometimes we don't give
enough credence to the impactthat processing speed can have
on all of those other cognitiveskills, and then, of course, all
of the other subjects.

How does weak processing affect things like
reading?

So a couple of different ways.
We know that processing speedcan impact working memory, and
the reason it can impact workingmemory is because if our
processing speed is slow andwe're trying to hold multiple
things in memory at one time inorder to act on them, we might

(28:34):
lose some of those items thatwe're holding in working memory,
because we're processing tooslowly and we require working
memory in order to read fluently.
And so it absolutely.
Processing speed can impact ourability to decode words.
It can impact our ability toread fluently because if we're

(28:55):
decoding too slowly, if we'rebreaking down or you're trying
to manipulate the sounds and theletters that are attached to
those sounds, if it's taking ustoo long to do that, then our
reading is not going to befluent.
And when our reading is notfluent, then our comprehension
is impacted.
Right?
If it's taking us so long justto fluently read words, we're so

(29:20):
focused on decoding words andwe're not actually processing
the meaning behind those words.
So it has this trickle-downeffect.
Slow processing impactsdecoding, which impacts fluency,
which impacts comprehension.

Kim Hanson (29:35):
Same in math, I'm assuming.

Yeah, absolutely.
We need to be able to holdthings in working memory right,
because math is exactly thatLike we're manipulating multiple
pieces of information in orderto solve problems, and so if we
lose some of those pieces ofinformation then we can't solve
the problem.
But another way that slowprocessing speed impacts math is

(29:58):
that math instruction tends togo pretty quickly, and so if you
have slow processing speed andyou're not able to process the
instructions quickly enough, theteacher has moved on to the
next step or the next two orthree steps in the problem
solving process, and you'restill on a prior step, so you're
not even able to encodeeverything that she's saying.

That leads to a lot of frustration for
individuals with weakerprocessing speed right.

Absolutely, and then that frustration has an
impact on processing speed aswell.
So it's this kind of viciouscycle.
So what happens here is yourprocessing speed is slow, you
get behind in the instructionalprocess and that creates an
emotional response.

(30:49):
Frustration is an emotionalresponse.
Well, we know that thatresponse is a fight or flight,
amygdala hijack of ourprefrontal cortex, in which we
can no longer access ourreasoning abilities.
So that is going to impact ourprocessing speed.
Right, so we start with slowprocessing speed and then we get
frustrated because of our slowprocessing speed, which slows

(31:12):
down our processing speed.

What are some strategies or exercises that we
can do to improve processingspeed?

Yeah.
So I think the easiest andsimplest way for us to help
build processing speed skills isthrough games.
That's the easiest way.
So you have a child who youjust want to encourage the
development of processing speed,right, because you recognize
that that processing speed skillunderlies every other skill,

(31:44):
right?
Our ability to pay attention,our ability to process things
visually and auditorily, howfast we can reason, right.
So we know that processingspeed is an important skill.
We want to maximize our kids'ability to learn and think
quickly, and so games,especially speeded and timed
games like Bop it and Simon andSpot it all those where you have

(32:11):
to do tasks quickly andaccurately are a phenomenal way
to engage and increaseprocessing speed and they can be
super fun.
It's an amazing way to connectwith your kid and with each
other.
But that isn't how we remediateslow processing speed.
So I want to really be clearabout that distinction that if

(32:34):
your child truly has aprocessing speed deficit, all
the board games in the world arenot gonna solve that issue.
That requires a specificintervention like cognitive
training.

Okay we'll talk about cognitive training in just
a little bit, but I wanna kindof stay here for a minute.

I wanna just give some warning signs or some
things.
That's a great idea, yeah, tolook for to help you recognize
if your child might have slowprocessing speed.
So one thing to look for isthat your child takes longer
than other people do to completetasks or to respond to

(33:16):
questions.
To complete tasks or to respondto questions, do they have
difficulty following multi-stepinstructions such as I need you
to go upstairs, brush your teeth, put your pajamas on and pick
out a book for bed?
Right, so that was three stepsin an instruction, and so if
they have difficulty followingall three of those, if they have

(33:38):
difficulty keeping up withconversations a lot of times,
kids with slow processing speedtake so long to process what a
person has said in aconversation that by the time
they come up with a response ora way to contribute to the
conversation, that conversationhas moved on to another topic
already.
Do they struggle to makedecisions?

(34:01):
Is starting tasks hard?
That's a sign of slowprocessing speed.
Do they miss social cues orkind of nuances in interactions?
That's a sign.
Do they need to rereadinformation multiple times in
order to understand it?
Or do they need your directionsrepeated multiple times in

(34:24):
order to understand it.
Do they have difficulty withtimed tasks or tests or
assignments that are timed, anddo they appear to be easily
overwhelmed by information, andthat is frequently because
they're having a hard timeprocessing all of it at once.

(34:47):
So those are some red flags tolook for.
So academic performance would bethat they read less fluently
than their same-age peers.
They read less fluently thantheir same age peers that they
have difficulty comprehendingwhat they read, so their reading
comprehension is low.
Are they late, turning inassignments consistently?

(35:07):
Are they not able to finishclasswork in the same amount of
time that their peers can finishtheir classwork?
Are they constantly asking formore time?
Are they asking the teacher torepeat instructions because they
only caught the first part andthey were still processing that,
so they don't know.

(35:28):
Oh, what was I supposed to donext?
Does it take them longer toread chapter books?
And sometimes these are readingstruggles, right, but the
difference is do they know howto decode words?
Versus does it take them longerto decode words?

(35:49):
So that's the difference thatwe would want to look for.
Do they know how to do the mathproblem?
It just takes them longer to dothe math problem.
Those are some red flags, right.
It can be really frustrating tohave slow processing speed.
It can impact self-esteem andself-confidence.
It can have far-reachingeffects right, not just in the

(36:11):
classroom but in relationships,in your ability to hold
conversations.
Safety, like you mentioned,sandy, driving, navigating, you
know, is it safe to cross thestreet or not, quickly enough to
be able to take all of thestimulus that you're seeing in
your environment and act on itin a safe way?

(36:32):
So it can have far reachingimpacts when we do have
processing speed.
But this is a message of hopeProcessing speed can be
remediated with targeted,intense, validated methods.
So we are continuing ourdiscussion with Kim Hansen,

(36:53):
reading specialist author andCEO of LearningRx.
Reading specialist.
Author and CEO of LearningRx.

Kim Hanson (36:59):
About visual processing skills.
So visual processing isunderstanding what you see, and
then it's also being able topicture or make mental images in
your head.
So it's kind of like creatingthe movie in your head as you
read.
It's being able to see things,imagine things, kind of some
people call it like the mind'seye, but it's being able to make

(37:24):
images in your head for themost part.
But it involves a lot of thingswhen it comes to how do you
process visually, because wetake in so many things.
That's probably the number onesense that we use when it comes
to how we learn, how we read,how we understand the world.

Right, so visual processing is this big generic
term for a bunch of smallerskills, right?
Yes, yes, can you talk aboutsome of those skills that fall
under the visual processingumbrella?

Kim Hanson (38:04):
Yeah, yeah.
So if you even think of like ababy, right.
So, for example, when I was ababy, one of the things that you
first learn is like yourhand-eye coordination, right.
So it's, you know, you want totouch something, you want to
reach out to something.
My dad actually has film of meas a baby and instead of giving

(38:28):
me, like my pacifier, he'dalways put it in my hand and
then I would have to sit thereand try to like get it in my
mouth, right, or he'd put likemobile things above me and I
would bat at them and see themand move them, and so one of the
things is that hand-eyecoordination or it's being able,

(38:50):
it's kind of your motor skillsand how that ties in with what
you see, right.
So you need that for a lot ofthings.
You need that when you'reparking a car, when you're
catching a ball, when you'retrying to throw a ball into a
hoop, those kind of things Tyingyour shoes, and then there's

(39:14):
also just discrimination, soit's kind of how you see an

(39:44):
object, like a paintbrush.
So when you look at an object,and if you distance of how close
it is and then also theorientation, which way am I
holding.
It is part of visual processingand knowing where you are in
space or even if it's movingtowards you.
That would be important if youhad, let's say, a large black

(40:10):
round object that was coming atyou, if you could discriminate
how fast and how big, and ifthat was a balloon versus a
bowling ball, right.
So if that's flying at mequickly, I have to move faster
for the bowling ball, and sohopefully I can figure that out.
Where a balloon, I might havemore time right.

So is that visual discrimination is part of that
process, determining theemergent nature of what movement
comes next.
Is that part of visualdiscrimination, or is that a
reasoning skill that's separate,Like oh no, it's a bowling ball
, it's going to hit me and breakmy nose, versus oh, it'll be

(40:51):
okay, I don't have to move asquickly for the balloon.

Kim Hanson (40:55):
Right, right.
But the faster you candiscriminate and make those
choices, the safer you are, so Icould see why that would be
important for driving.
Yeah, so it's also like if youthink of the ability to match
something or to sort somethingor to track something, to

(41:16):
visualize something, to alsohold something that you see in
your memory.
So all of these things kind ofplay into that, that, how you
process visual information.

What's the difference between vision, or
eyesight, and visual processing?
We've talked about it a littlebit, but we might get stuck
because if you say, oh, my childhas an issue with visual
processing, would younecessarily go to an eye doctor
to help you with that?

Kim Hanson (41:48):
So an eye doctor is for seeing clearly typically and
being able to track and teaming.
So both of your eyes workingtogether is typically what you
would even do like visiontherapy for, unless it kind of
goes into more of a cognitivearea.

(42:09):
But typically it's being ableto see clear and most people
that struggle with visualprocessing most of them can see
clear.

Okay, so to clarify then, vision or eyesight
is just the ability to use youreyes to see clearly and for
your eyes to work together inseeing clearly, whereas visual
processing is this set of skillsthat are cognitive in nature.

(42:43):
It's how the brain processesthe information that the eye
actually takes in as one of oursenses.
Is that correct?

Kim Hanson (42:52):
It's a little bit of imagination how you can see
things that aren't there.
If I were to describe a frog,and I could describe the frog
and I can change your picture.
So when I say frog, most of usimagine a frog.
If we've had experience with afrog, right.
But I can change yourdescription by giving you

(43:14):
details so I can talk about thesize of it.
Maybe it's huge or maybe it'ssmall.
Maybe it has polka dots on it,maybe it's not green, maybe it's
actually pink with blue polkadots, maybe it has a smile on
its face.
So I can change your image.
I can talk about what's in frontof it, what's behind it, what's

(43:34):
above it, what's next to it,and so it's being able to see
that in your head.
So someone who'd be good atvisual processing is usually
good at finding things.
They're usually good at readingmaps.
They're usually good at beingable to understand what you're

(43:57):
asking them or what they'relistening to or what they're
reading.
Visual processing has a lot todo with comprehension creating
that movie in your head asyou're listening or as you're
reading, as you're learning.

Well, so that's a great segue, then, into why do
we need strong visual processingskills to learn so in reading
or writing.
How do we use those?

Kim Hanson (44:26):
skills.
Well, you have to be able tosee what letters you're looking
at right in the very beginning,and the orientation.
The letter B, right.
So you should be able to knowthat that's a, B, no matter what

(44:52):
the font is, no matter what thecolor is, the shape is, the
size is.
You know, you should, even evenif it's sideways, you can still
kind of tell that that's theletter B.
When it comes to visualprocessing and understanding and
comprehending, you need topicture all of the details, but
not too many details, right?
So you kind of want to see whatare the important things.

So even prioritizing is important in
visual processing, being able toplan and being able to think.
So let's talk about some redflags that parents should be on
the lookout for that signal.
Hey, my kid might be strugglinga little bit with visual
processing.
What are some red flags?

Kim Hanson (45:30):
So hearing, I don't understand this.
Hearing I can't find this.
Not being able to sort, notbeing able to match, getting
something just very confused,are all examples of what you
would find in someone whostruggles with visual processing

(45:52):
.
So it's kind of like that youcan almost see there's no movie.
So it's kind of like you canalmost see there's no movie
happening in their head.
Anytime you're doing wordproblems and somebody is
confused or doesn't understand,not being able to answer
questions after listening to aparagraph or reading a paragraph
if they have a hard timemanipulating shapes or not being

(46:16):
able to identify them anddefinitely just not
understanding.
The great thing about visualprocessing is it can be
developed, just like all of ourcognitive skills.

Thank you so much , kim, for coming on.
Our topic today is auditoryprocessing, and who better to
help us dig deeper into thistopic than our very own co-host,
dr Jodi Jedlicka, who is adoctor of audiology and has
specialized in the diagnosis andtreatment of auditory
processing disorders.
Good morning, jodi.
What is auditory processing andwhy is it important for our

(46:50):
overall ability to communicateand understand speech?

Dr. Jody Jedlicka (46:53):
understand speech People think of a hearing
problem as difficulty actuallyperceiving sound, but there's so
much that happens once thatsound gets past the ears.
So it's what's happening in thebrain when you are hearing
something.
People think that you hear withyour ears.
You don't hear with your ears.
You perceive sound with yourears, but you really hear with

(47:15):
your brain, and so when we talkabout auditory processing
disorders, it can affect a wholehost of different behaviors and
developmental things in kids.
But auditory processing is likean umbrella term and so it
refers to a lot of differentthings and there's different
types of auditory processingdisorder that kind of fall

(47:37):
underneath that umbrella.
An auditory decoding deficit iswhen a student has difficulty
hearing those sounds of speechclearly and so everything for
lack of a better term sounds alittle muddy to them.
It requires a lot ofconcentration to be able to hear
.
It requires a lot ofconcentration to be able to hear

(48:00):
.
That type will affect thingslike reading and spelling and
writing.
Because they're not hearing thesounds correctly, they have a
hard time pairing those soundsto the correct codes that are
required for reading.
Prosodic disorder happens in adifferent part of the brain, a
different part of the auditorysystem, and what that is is it's
difficulty understanding theinflection or tone of voice or

(48:26):
sarcasm they'll have difficultywith.
Kids who have that difficultywill think everybody's mad at
them all the time, because theyjust have a really hard time not
hearing the information butrather understanding kind of the
feeling behind it.
And then there's another onecalled integration disorder, and

(48:48):
what that is is it's the twosides of the brain talking to
each other.
Can I put it all together?
And probably my best example ofthat one?
So those kids will have troublejust kind of doing more than
one thing auditorily at the sametime.
So they may have difficultylike looking and listening at
the same time or doing somethingwhile they're listening like

(49:11):
copying off the board.
But a good example of that onewould be I had a little guy in
my office and when he talked tome he would look over my
shoulder and the mom said to himlook her in the eye when you
talk to her.
It's really important to makeeye contact and it clearly was

(49:31):
something they'd been working on.
And he looked at her and hesaid yeah, but I can't hear her
when I look at her.
And so you know, kids willalways tell us what's going on.
Auditory processing disordersneed to be assessed by an
audiologist, and not just anyaudiologist.
They really have to have somespecialized training in that

(49:52):
area, and so they will do ahearing test just to rule out a
peripheral hearing loss.
But the tests that go alongwith auditory processing
diagnosis will dig deeper, andwhat we're trying to do in the
testing environment is reallystress the auditory system,
really push it to kind of theboundaries of what it's capable

(50:15):
of doing, and we're looking forwhen do things break down?
For that student Kids who haveauditory processing disorders
will clearly break down earlierthan kids who don't.
If you kind of pick apart orlook at how the different tests
kind of fit together, that'swhat allows you to put that

(50:37):
diagnostic label on that.
So if you want to call it adecoding deficit, they're going
to struggle or break down in onetest or a different test if
they're struggling with aprosodic disorder, and so you're
just looking for number one isthat breakdown happening?
And number two where are theybreaking down and what is that
telling me?

Okay, individuals who struggle with auditory
processing do you typically seethat, hearing loss or no, the
hearing is fine.
It's just how the brain isprocessing the sound that is
glitchy.

Right, that's a really good way to say it.
You actually do need to ruleout peripheral hearing loss
before you test for auditoryprocessing, because people with
hearing loss also have weakauditory processing.
It's just due to a peripheralhearing loss, so it's not really
an auditory processing disorder.
There's a different underlyingcause for that, and so we're

(51:32):
going to treat it a little bitdifferently.

So let's talk about that.
What are some signs andsymptoms that parents can look
for for their kids that theremight be some auditory
processing difficulty?

I know this one would be a hard one because
kids don't listen to directionsfor different reasons.
But if they have troublefollowing directions, if they
need to look at you in order tobe able to follow directions,
sometimes I'll have parents sayif my son is sitting in the back
seat and I'm sitting in thefront seat talking to him, he

(52:04):
can't hear me Because you useyour visual skills, whether you
realize it or not.
People tell me all the timethat they hear better with their
glasses on, and so if they'resitting in the back, they're not
looking at your face.
They'll have a lot more troublehearing with background noise,
and I would say that in atypical classroom it's much

(52:26):
noisier than what most of usrealize.
Those kids are just reallysensitive to the noise in the
background.
I think the biggest, mostimpactful one for me is learning
to read.
It's really difficult to learnto read if you don't have a good
, clear idea of what thosesounds should be sounding like,

(52:47):
and so when you see kids whohave trouble just with that
initial instruction and learninghow to read, those are always
kids that would throw up a redflag for me.

Would you include , like speech and language
delays in that as well?
Obviously.

Yeah.
So, they may have articulationissues that go beyond or last
beyond the time that they endfor other kids.
So those would be great kids torefer for a speech evaluation.
They may say their sounds outof order, like we all expect
kids to say Biscotti, or, as mygrandson will always say, and I

(53:26):
think it's so cute, but we haveauditory processing disorder.
That runs in our family too.
But he'll say instead oftomorrow, he'll say tomorrow and
he just he's convinced thatthat's what it sounds like.
And so, yes, speech andlanguage issues too, those are
always a red flag for me.

What if it flies under the radar a little bit, as
sometimes these things do?
What would it look like for,say, a middle school or a
teenager, if auditory processingmay be an issue that we need to
address?

Yeah, I think a lot of the same behaviors,
but they've been dealing withthem for so long, so their
self-esteem, their confidence,really starts to take a hit the
older that they go.
On the other hand, though, itis never too late to address
this problem, and so I would saythat, as soon as you do have

(54:16):
concerns or worries about that,just get it checked out and see
if you can't start on the roadto better performance.
And so, I think, same things.
It's just that some of those,the way that they see themselves
, the way that they feel aboutthemselves, the way that they

(54:36):
approach challenges, they justdon't trust themselves all the
time.
Gosh, I swear, I thought Iheard her give me this direction
and she said do this, and Ican't do anything, you know.
And so we're tough on ourselves, and it just gives them one
more reason to be tough onthemselves, right?

How does auditory processing impact cognitive
skills like attention, memoryand just overall learning?

Yeah, so auditory processing actually can
mimic attention problems.
So that might be the thing thata parent comes in saying you
know, he's just not listening.
He, you know he's got attentionproblems.
I give him a direction.
He can't remember thedirections.
Well, did he hear them?
Or is it a memory issue?
Or is it a behavior issue?

(55:23):
Or I think that if kids can dowell, they do do well, right.
So I always think that if thereis a consistent complaint or
behavior that you're seeing fromyour child, I think it's worth
checking it out, because nobodywants to feel like they're just
never getting it right, right.

(55:43):
So I think it's important toseparate out what the issue is
and what the surrounding issuesare, and so I can't stress
enough that looking at auditoryprocessing in a vacuum, while
it'll still help, it,exacerbates all those other
issues that might be present inthe child.
So you really do need to lookat memory.

(56:04):
You really do need to look atprocessing speed.
You really do need to look atthe other things that make up
that child, because every timethere's a piece that's weak, it
makes the problem look bigger.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, exactly, I love how youtalked about it mimicking ADHD

(56:25):
sometimes, because when we didour podcast on attention, we
talked about that selectiveattention piece.
Well, if you have weak auditoryprocessing, having selective
attention, being able toprioritize sound is really hard,
which is kind of what youdescribed at the beginning.
Yeah, and I think that kidslearn what they can do and learn
what they can't do, and thenthey don't actually even put

(56:48):
forth the same amount of effortif they don't think they can do
it.
So auditory training is muchlike we would do with somebody
who has a hearing loss, but whatyou're doing is you're training
them to hear the sounds,recognize the sounds clearly,
hear them in the right order,hear them accurately, be able to
play with and manipulate thosesounds auditory processing

(57:19):
disorder or weakness but it isalso one of the key critical
skills kids have to be good atin order to have reading and
spelling come more easily tothem, and so we have the added
benefit of kind of hitting acouple different directions.

What is it that we do specifically that
addresses this auditoryprocessing weakness?
That's different than what youmay find, for example, in an
audiologist's office.

Yeah, so auditory processing is actually
what brought me to LearningRx.
Our auditory training piece ofour program is so far beyond
anything else that I've everseen.
Because we're doing metronometraining and because it is so
targeted, we can makeimprovements so quickly with our

(58:04):
kids.
The other thing I really loveis the way that it's put
together allows a trainer to beon the lookout for what that
student's errors are and toadjust their target sounds that
they're working on on the fly,and it can happen so quickly
that there's not even a pause inthe action that we're doing,

(58:27):
and so it just.
They've thought of all thedifferent little pieces that
could possibly happen during atraining session and because
speed is a part of our training,we're also working on
processing speed, but we can getso many more opportunities to
the student that's sitting infront of us, listening

(58:49):
opportunities, items that we'recovering in a session.
And then again we're looking atthings like memory and
processing speed and all thoseother skills that need to work
kind of in coordination withauditory processing, and I think
that's the biggest differencebetween us and any other option
that I have seen.

(59:09):
It's more of a whole brainapproach really Exactly.

We're trying to get the whole brain to work
together more efficiently.
You mentioned the metronome andjust how powerful that is.
Why is that so impactful forauditory processing?

Yeah, because timing issues, like my grandson
who says to Ronald he doesn'thear the order that those sounds
go in, and sounds and wordshappen in milliseconds I mean
tiny.
And so the metronome traininghelps them speed up their
thinking, their ability torecognize those sounds and to

(59:44):
hear them in the right orderwhich again is another thing
that our training does is ithelps them to hear them in the
right order, it helps them toplay with and manipulate those
sounds so that they can getbetter at that.

Thank you, Dr Jodi.
What is logic and reasoningfrom our perspective?

Dr. Amy Moore (01:00:03):
Okay, so it's the ability to use some sort of
procedure to solve a problem.
That is what fluid reasoning is.

Sandy Zamalis (01:00:15):
Okay, so this is a higher level thinking skill,
right?

Absolutely.

It is not automatic processing.

Okay, so we have skills that are automatic
processing skills, likeprocessing speed and attention.
But higher level thinkingskills require the use of those
automatic skills and the use ofwhat we know typically right to
solve a problem.

(01:00:43):
So it's like the coordinationof what we know, the ability to
project what might happen andthe use of those underlying
processing skills all at thesame time.
I mean it's the cornerstone ofthinking and learning.

(01:01:03):
In fact, some researchers saythat fluid reasoning is
intelligence.
A student who has great logicand reasoning skills would be
able to generate ideas andpossible outcomes pretty quickly
, given a set of facts orpossibilities.
And so they're probably greatat class discussions because

(01:01:27):
they can take what they've read,take what they've learned heard
the teacher say what mighthappen if and they can quickly
generate possibilities.
Because reasoning fluidreasoning is all about looking
at what all the possibleoutcomes could be and choosing
the most reasonable outcome.

(01:01:50):
And so if you have strongreasoning skills, then you will
probably do really well in mathand really well in science,
because the scientific method isall about taking what you know,
generating hypotheses aboutwhat could be and then acting on
those.

(01:02:10):
So we automatically think oh,you're great at logic, you're
great at reasoning, so thoseSTEM fields are perfect for you,
but reading also requiresreasoning, and I'm sure that you
see that with your clients allthe time Right, because that
drives comprehension right andit drives the ability to

(01:02:32):
understand how the Englishlanguage works, how we organize
our language, how we spell ourlanguage.

There's a lot of logic associated with reading,
for sure.

Absolutely.
I mean even something as simple, as you see a word that has I
before E, and so you have to say, okay, what is the rule that I
apply when I'm reading this word?

Yes, exactly.
So let's think about that.
On the flip side of the coin,academically, if you were weak
in logic and reasoning we talkedabout, for example, science,
where would we might see ahiccup in that logic and
reasoning if a student's weak inthat area, for example, a
science experiment?

Yeah, so it would make it difficult to generate a
hypothesis if you are weak inlogic and reasoning skills.
And so when we're generatinghypotheses, we are taking what
rules exist about the naturalworld and then say, if we
combine these two things,knowing these rules about the

(01:03:43):
general world, what might happen?

Can test taking be hard for somebody who has
weak logic and reasoning skills?
Absolutely.

Especially a test with multiple choice answers,
because you have to determinewhat is the best possible answer
out of these four or fivechoices, and so you have to be
able to reason through why orwhy not each answer is the
plausible answer, right.

I would say critical thinking kind of lands
in this logic and reasoningbucket.
I would say critical thinkingkind of lands in this logic and
reasoning bucket, so much sothat, especially in elementary
and early middle school, we wereputting a lot of effort into
building these critical thinkingor logic and reasoning skills a
little too early, becausethey've come at a detriment to

(01:04:33):
building skills like processingspeed building skills like
working memory and long-termmemory.
What are your thoughts on thathypothesis?

Yeah, so I think that that's a pretty astute
observation.
So, first of all, I think it'simportant to help kids learn to
think.
I think it's important to helpkids learn to reason through
possibilities right, Because wedon't want them to just memorize
information and regurgitateinformation and not know what to

(01:05:03):
do with the information.
And so the older they get, themore application becomes
important, and so without theability to critically think
through all the possibilities,then they're not going to be
able to apply facts right in thereal world and in education
settings.
But it's putting the cartbefore the horse.

Right.

Right.
So critical thinking skillsrequire strong underlying
learning skills, underlyingcognitive skills.
So if we have weak attentionskills, weak memory skills, weak
processing speed, weak visualand auditory processing, then we
can't learn to think criticallybecause we're stuck in the

(01:05:53):
cycle of I can't even rememberthe rules about the world
because my memory is weak.
I didn't pay attention.
I couldn't pay attention to thelecture that then led up to
this assignment of applying whatthe teacher taught us to now

(01:06:15):
solving a problem because myattention skills were weak.
My processing speed is so slowthat I couldn't keep up with the
discussion.
So I don't even know what we'resupposed to be thinking
critically about yet.
So it's putting the cart beforethe horse to expect kids to
learn how to apply theinformation that they've learned
in a critical way if they'restill struggling with the

(01:06:36):
ability to learn the basics.

Well and developmentally, the prefrontal
cortex isn't even online untillater.

right, that's the part of the brain we're talking
about, so reasoning we wouldargue happens in the CEO of our
brain, so the prefrontal cortex,which, by the way, is not fully
developed in the CEO of ourbrain, so the prefrontal cortex,
which, by the way, is not fullydeveloped until the mid-20s.
There's some research tosuggest it happens even later

(01:07:06):
than that.
And can we do things to helpspeed up the development of the
prefrontal cortex?
Absolutely, but we have torecognize that those processes
aren't fully integrated at ageseven, and so, as much as we
want to push our kidsacademically, we can't skip over

(01:07:28):
those underlying foundationalskills that they need first.

So we've talked about how weak logic and
reasoning can show upacademically.
Let's talk about behaviorally.
How does it show up there?

Yeah.
So it's very difficult toreason through all of the
possible outcomes unless youhave strong reasoning skills.
And so when a friend dares you,you know to drive 100 miles an
hour.
You know down this dirt road.
Without strong reasoning skillsyou aren't going to quickly be

(01:08:04):
able to generate all of thepotential outcomes of that
behavior, and so it can beabsolutely dangerous right.

So how do we start building those skills?

Relationally and behavior.
Behaviorally, that has to startwith the conversations that we
have with our kids.
So narrating your own thoughtprocesses day to day and then
helping deconstruct mistakes ina calm and curious way helps
build those reasoning skillsokay, we do that in our centers

(01:08:38):
too.

I mean, that's how we train it.
Actually, we just take thatbroad concept and like bring it
all the way down into smalltasks that our students or our
clients do with us, narratingour thought process, especially
if they are overwhelmed with thetask, giving them lots of

(01:08:58):
different options or ideas orstrategies that they can then
pick and choose from.
But then also, on the flip side, when they are working it on
their own, helping themdeconstruct.
Why did you choose it that way?
Why did you take that strategy?
Can you explain why?
That is the answer to me.
Pretend I don't know.

Absolutely, and recognizing that this process of
thinking through decisions andwhy you make the decisions can
be uncomfortable at first.
So you do see some frustrationwhen you start having these
conversations with your kids inthe beginning, because their
brains aren't trained to thinkcritically yet.

(01:09:43):
Until we help build thoseskills along with recognizing
okay, do they have the attentionskills to even have this
20-minute conversation?
And if not, we got to go backto the basics there too.
Do they have the memory to evenremember why they made the
decision they made?
Again it goes back to we can'tput the cart before the horse.

(01:10:05):
We have to recognize that thoseautomatic processing skills
play just as an important rolein logic and reasoning as the
actual prefrontal cortexexecutive functioning skill
itself.
Fluid reasoning skills reallyare those skills that coordinate

(01:10:29):
and include all of the otherthinking skills.
That it's we get to H or M andso to know.

(01:10:51):
While we want to encourage kidsto think critically, while we
want to encourage theirreasoning skills to recognize
that there may be deficits, youknow, in those lower processing
skills that we want to addressfirst.

How do we address that?
What is the current paradigmwith how we look at cognitive
skills, let's say, in a schoolsetting?

Yeah.
So they'll do things likepreferential seating, where they
put the child at the front ofthe class so that they're not
distracted by other things, orthey'll give the child extra
time.
So schools have greatintentions, right, when they
identify that a child might bestruggling, but they don't
always know, except forattention.

(01:11:35):
They don't always know whythey're struggling, and so they
just, they will accommodate itright to just help support that
child.
The problem with supporting it,while, again, a great intention
, is that it's not doinganything to remediate it.
And so we have to actually usea targeted intervention to

(01:11:58):
remediate weak cognitive skills.
Now, don't get me wrong.
Not every child who has a weakcognitive skill needs an intense
intervention.
Right, some kids are going torespond to some fun games or
strategies to just improve thosecognitive skills a little bit.
But when you're seeing yourchild truly struggling, and if

(01:12:19):
there's a chance that two orthree of those cognitive skills
are weak and creating thatstruggle, then we need to go in
and do an intervention.
And so for us, what you and Ido is we strengthen those
cognitive skills throughcognitive skills training, and
so we do that by using veryintense, very complex, targeted,

(01:12:44):
carefully selectedhuman-delivered activities,
mental activities.
They're fun, they feel likegames, even though they're hard
right To drill down on thoseweak cognitive skills and hope
to strengthen them.

So let's talk about intensity.
Why is that so important?
To build a cognitive skill.

Yeah, so that repeated exposure is really what
drives neuroplasticity, and sowe can't just dabble in
activities here and there andexpect to see change.
And so for our neurons to growor to regenerate or to be

(01:13:30):
generated, in the first place weneed our brains to release a
protein called BDNF,brain-derived neurotropic factor
.
That's like miracle grow forthe brain, and so that's only
released through intensity,right?
So we know it's released duringphysical exercise.

(01:13:51):
So, like intense aerobicactivity releases BDNF.
The hypothesis also is thatintense cognitive activity will
release BDNF, and so that's whatyou need in order to drive
neuroplasticity, to drive thosechanges in the brains.
So that intensity is criticalto that process.

Now you also mentioned that human,
face-to-face, one-on-one kind ofinteraction for training.
There's lots of brain apps outthere and things that you can do
.
What's the difference?
Why would one be morebeneficial than the?

other.
I love that question In factit's one of my favorite
questions to answer and thereare multiple reasons.
There's so much research thatsays that the number one
predictor of success from anintervention is the relationship
with the person who'sdelivering the intervention.
And so if we apply that to thecognitive training environment,

(01:14:45):
then the number one predictor ofsuccess is going to be your
relationship with a cognitivetrainer that's delivering that.
And so you know, we think thatsome of those reasons are
motivation right.
So if you're playing a braingame on your laptop and you get
frustrated when that game getshard, what are you going to do?

(01:15:06):
Turn it off?
Yeah, you're going to shut thelaptop, you're done.
If you get frustrated with theintensity or difficulty of a
cognitive training activity, asyou're sitting across the table
from a cognitive trainer, youdon't have the option of turning
the trainer off, and so thattrainer can read those cues,
that trainer can recognize whenyou are getting frustrated and

(01:15:29):
they can adapt the exercise.
Right, they can pull back alittle bit, lower the intensity,
let you experience some successand then push you some more.
And we do high fives, whichrelease dopamine, right, and
dopamine increases motivation,and we know that, especially
kids with ADHD, and adults too.

(01:15:51):
They really struggle withdopamine and they need dopamine
for motivation, and so thosehigh fives and that verbal
encouragement is critical.
So some fireworks on a screen,that's not going to do it.
That's not going to do it whenyou're struggling with how
difficult it is, and socognitive training, one that's

(01:16:15):
designed specifically for thatperson, is going to give them
the ability to master each task,and we have over 100 different
training tasks, and thosetraining tasks have 10 to 12
different levels, so we have athousand different ways that you
and I use to train the brain.

I guess my next question that I want you to
address is what happens if youdon't do anything?
What happens to skill in thebrain if we don't address it at
all?

Yeah, I like that question too, sandy.
So we created cognitiveprofiles of several thousand
kids with reading struggles ordyslexia, and so what we saw was
, in the absence of anintervention, those skills
continued to weaken over time.

(01:17:01):
So it isn't that they just stayin one place, it's that as
school gets harder, as you getolder and you're having to
juggle more, those skills weaken, so the struggle becomes even
harder, and so that was across-sectional study of

(01:17:34):
thousands of kids.

But to take a snapshot, like that of a very
large sample, really shows usthat early intervention is
important.

Absolutely, absolutely that we talked about
today, those core seven skills.
Is there anything you wanted tosay about cognitive skills in
general that we didn't get tosay in this episode?
So I think one of the thingsthat we didn't talk about was
the difference between tutoringand cognitive skills training,
because we typically, as parents, see our child struggle and we
say, oh, I think they need atutor, and that might be true in
many instances.
Right, like so.
Let's say, you're in a higherlevel math class, algebra two or
calculus, you know, or you'restruggling in chemistry or
biology in high school.
A tutor is probably going to bea great choice.

(01:18:15):
Right, you're just seeing astruggle in one particular class
because your child isstruggling with those particular
concepts.
Right, you're not seeing astruggle across the board.
And I think that's where yousee the red flag.
When your child is strugglingin multiple classes, in multiple
areas, then it's probablybecause cognitive skills that

(01:18:36):
are weak are impacting theirability to learn in all areas,
or many areas, not just in thatone particular class.
And so I think that it's reallyimportant for parents to be
able to recognize that, hey,there is something else that
might be happening here besidesa struggle to capture this
particular piece of informationor this particular subject.

(01:18:58):
So that would be where I wouldsay, hey, maybe you want to
explore the possibility ofcognitive skills being the
underlying issue and maybecognitive skills training as
being a potential intervention.
So you could then go to Sandy orto someone like Sandy who runs
cognitive training centersacross the world, and you can

(01:19:22):
find those how LearningRxcom,yep, learningrxcom, yep,
learningrxcom.
There's a section at the verytop right of the website that
says find a location or find acenter, or you can call
1-866-BRAIN-01, which is thecentral phone number, and they
can help you find a center.

(01:19:42):
And, interestingly, if youdon't live near a cognitive
training center, a LearningRxcenter, you can get it over Zoom
and so we can reach anyone inthe world.
But we are in 43 countries andwe've been doing this since the
1980s.
This is not new.
That's the cool part, rightLike we have lots and lots of
peer-reviewed research publishedin medical journals.

(01:20:04):
In fact, that's my job as thedirector of research for
LearningRx.
That validates what centerowners like Sandy do all day,
every day.

Amy, thanks for this high-level view of
cognitive skills and how theyimpact learning.
Dr Ken.

Gibson, who created the cognitive
trainingitive Training Program,learningrx, wrote a book called
Unlock the Einstein Inside andit is all about cognitive skills
and we're giving it to you forfree.
So in the show notes we willprovide a link for you to access
the PDF version of Unlock theEinstein Inside by Dr Ken Gibson

(01:20:43):
, so you can learn even moreabout what we talked about.

It's a great read .
It's super short and it haslots of great tips inside as
well, so enjoy.
And then we also have a gamepack too, right?
Yes, we do, and it reallyhighlights different games you
can play and kind of how you cantweak them and add that
intensity that Dr Amy wastalking about.
So that's a lot of fun and cankind of enhance your family game

(01:21:08):
night.
So, between the book and thegame pack, kind of play around
with cognitive skills and seehow you can implement training
into your routine.

Thanks for joining us for another episode
of the Brainy Moms podcast.
If you'd like more informationabout cognitive skills training
or cognitive assessment, you canvisit learningrxcom or call
1-866-BRAIN-01 to find a centernear you or simply to ask
questions or find out moreinformation about how LearningRx

(01:21:41):
might be able to help you oryour child think better or learn
easier.

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