May 25, 2026 • 33 mins
Hiring is one of the most important things you do, but most interviews don't actually reveal who someone really is. Candidates give good answers, you hire them, and then you realize what they said wasn't a reflection of how they actually operate. In this episode, I'm walking you through the five-layer framework we use to spot real patterns, validate them, and hire people who can thrive in the role and in our culture.
Episode Highlights
- Why hiring for natural wiring matters for you and the employee
- How asking better questions became my biggest business superpower
- Why brand clarity has to come before you start interviewing
- How to start an interview without leading the candidate
- Why specific stories reveal more than polished answers
- How to spot natural wiring across different seasons of life
- Why other people's validation matters in the hiring process
Resources and Links
- Interviewing for Natural Wiring framework: ClearAuthenticBrands.com/resources
- Brand Clarity Elements (also on the resources page)
- https://www.skool.com/hire-great-people
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amy Dardis (00:12):
Podcast, and I'm your host, Amy Dardis.
And in this episode, we arewalking through the framework on
how to ask questions thatreveal a person's natural
wiring.
I love asking questions.
Asking questions is my favoritething to do, and it's something
that has served me wellthroughout my life and in
(00:35):
various different contexts ofbusiness, which I'm actually
going to share with you about.
But the specific applicationthat we're actually going to
dive into is asking questions inan interview because hiring the
right people for your brand issuper important.
Like hiring people, I think isthe most important thing that
(01:00):
you do, not only to benefit youas the business, you as the
leader, but specifically tobenefit the employee, the actual
individual.
Because when people are workingin their natural wiring, that
is actually what has the mostimpact that delivers the most
value and the most contribution,not only to the business, but
(01:24):
to the individual themselves.
And a lot of times what happensin interviewing is we don't
always know exactly whatquestions to ask.
And so we'll ask a lot ofpopular questions in an
interview.
And candidates will give us alot of really good answers, but
then we'll hire them and we'llfind out that what they said
(01:47):
isn't an accurate reflection ofhow they actually operate and
their natural wiring.
And so we see the disconnect,and then there's friction and
there's frustration and there'stension.
And what we want to do is wewant to get around that.
Now, how I learned to getaround that was something that I
(02:07):
stumbled into, but I did itthrough my own natural wiring.
And if you've been followingthe podcast for any length of
time, we talk a lot aboutnatural wiring.
And then specifically in thisepisode, we're going to talk
about my second favorite topic,which is asking questions.
So I love asking questions, andI love asking questions to an
(02:33):
extreme.
For example, I was talking tomy friend the other day, and she
was telling me about her day,and she just was said something
super casual like, Yeah, I'vebeen eating a lot of sugar
lately.
And for anyone else, they wouldjust be like, Okay, cool, and
just like glide right over that.
But my mind pauses on that andthinks, well, what kind of sugar
(02:57):
have you been eating?
Is this candy?
Is this chocolate?
And what amounts?
And what's leading you to dothis?
And how do you feel afterward?
Are you feeling guilt?
Are there any symptoms?
Is your face breaking out?
Do you feel good afterwards?
Is there something going on inyour life that's leading you to
want to eat this sugar?
(03:18):
And what time of the day areyou eating this sugar?
I mean, there's within aninstant, there are 20 questions
that just immediately come tomind that I'm just like, I can't
even help myself.
And this actually came up whenI was a kid.
I noticed I was asking way morequestions than everybody else
was, and people would getannoyed by it.
(03:41):
And I didn't think anything ofit.
In my head, it was justsomething where, well, doesn't
everybody have these questions?
Doesn't everybody want to knowall of this information?
And it wasn't until I actuallygot married and met like was in
relationship and living with myhusband for a few years and
really starting to understandsomebody else at a very deep
(04:04):
level to realize, like, how comeyour brain doesn't have 50 more
questions that my brain has?
But oftentimes what we think isnormal or average or something
that's maybe not even a giftingends up being something that
really is our natural wiring andbecomes a superpower.
(04:25):
And so for years of my life, Ithought nothing of this
question-asking thing.
I assumed everybody asked asmany questions as I did, that
their brains worked the sameway.
And it wasn't until I gotmarried that I realized that
other people's brains don't worklike this.
And it wasn't until I started abusiness that I started to
(04:45):
realize that this is actually agifting.
And it started to open so manymore doors than I ever could
have even imagined.
So in the early days of usstarting our web design and
marketing agency, we were brandnew.
We had no credibility, noproof, no testimonials, nothing
(05:05):
to offer.
We also had no budget, nomarketing strategy, nothing.
And our business suffereddeeply because of that.
Like in our business, in ourmarriage, in our finances, in
our life, things were completelyfalling apart.
And as a Hail Mary, as a lastditch, I have nothing left to
(05:31):
offer attempt.
I started to join somenetworking groups and I started
to make connections within justthe local community and the
local chamber.
And in my head, I was like,okay, I have nothing to offer.
I feel just completely brokeninside.
I have zero self-confidence,but I can go and I can build
(05:54):
relationships and I can askquestions and I can learn about
other people.
I can learn about otherpeople's businesses.
I can be genuinely curious andgenuinely interested.
That's all I have to do.
I just I'm gonna start withjust trying to network and get
to know people.
And my way of getting to knowpeople was by asking questions.
(06:18):
And through that process, Iactually ended up getting
business.
Like people started hiring usto build their website without
me even selling them.
I would just meet someone andbe like, hey, I'm building a
business and uh you have thisbusiness, and I would just love
to learn about your story andwhat you do.
(06:40):
Would you want to have coffeesometime?
And people would be like, Yeah,sure.
And we would go and have coffeeand I would just ask them,
like, how'd you get started?
And what led you to that?
And, you know, how's it going?
And we would just build arelationship.
And because of that, oftentimespeople would end up being like,
(07:00):
Hey, what do you do?
And be like, Oh, we buildwebsites.
I'm like, Can you build mine?
Like, sure.
And that ended up opening thedoor not only to new business
and new relationships, but alsoto a really important part of
our process, which wasunderstanding the business.
It was understanding the story,it was understanding what made
(07:22):
them unique.
And I was so genuinelyinterested in that.
And so what started as justpure fascination, I ended up
being able to pull out what madethem unique and what their
target market was and what theircore offerings were, and how to
message that and how toarticulate that.
(07:43):
And through that process, Iactually ended up realizing too
that most businesses actuallystruggled to articulate that.
And when they would hire us tobuild their website, whether it
was a new website or oftentimesa redesign of a website that
wasn't working, that wasn'tconverting, when I asked them
questions, they could tell metheir story.
(08:04):
But if I was like, hey, can youwrite me some content that so I
can put this on your website?
That's where things would stallout because they just wouldn't
be able to articulate it or putinto words or even know
specifically what it was thatthey needed to hone in on.
And so I realized that one,this is a huge stalling point.
And two, I'm hearing your storyand I'm seeing it.
(08:28):
It makes total sense to mebecause of all of the questions
that I'm able to ask and I knowwhat I'm looking for.
And so I'm just pulling it up.
And over time, I started to onerealize that this was a super
valuable process.
It made the website better, itmade their marketing better, it
made our process way morestreamlined, way more efficient.
(08:49):
And so I started to analyzelike, what am I doing when I'm
sitting down with these businessowners?
What questions am I asking?
And why am I asking thosequestions?
And what specifically am Ilooking for?
And when I find thatinformation, how am I going to
take that information and put iton their website?
And what is really importantand what's just extra?
(09:12):
And I started to basicallydeconstruct what I just did
organically without really evenbeing aware of what I was doing
so that I could hone in on thisprocess even more.
So I could make sure that everysingle time I went and sat down
with a client, I got everythingthat I needed.
I didn't want to have to goback and ask follow-up
(09:34):
questions.
I wanted to know that I hadeverything I needed and I wanted
to get it as quickly and asefficiently as possible because
small business owners are busy.
They don't have time formultiple meetings.
And a lot of my clients wereowner operators, like they were
busy running the business.
And so I always felt thispressure on time.
(09:56):
And so I was like, let me justmake the most of it.
Like, can I do this in an hour?
Can I do this in 90 minutes?
And how can I get everythingthat I need?
And what parts of their storyam I focusing on?
And so I started to map outthis process to a point where it
was just completely smooth,completely streamlined.
(10:17):
And within a 90-minuteconversation, I could get
everything that I needed towrite their entire website
content, to understand theirtarget market, to understand
what made them different fromtheir competitors, to be able to
identify their process andtheir core offering, where it
really made sense within mybrain.
(10:38):
Like I felt like I knew thisbrand because I knew what
questions to ask and how I wasactually approaching the
questions themselves.
So I had that process fullyrefined.
And eventually I ended up goingto work for a gas and welding
(10:59):
distributor.
And I was on their leadershipteam and I worked as an employee
inside the business for aboutfive years.
And through that time, I gotmore and more involved in the
hiring and interviewing side ofthe business because we first
started doing all the brandclarity stuff and figuring out
(11:22):
our story and our values andwhat made us different.
And then I realized that wewere having issues with who we
were hiring.
Some hires were working outgreat and some weren't.
And it was very painful and itwas very expensive.
And so I was like, what are wedoing in our hiring process?
Like, who, what questions arewe asking?
(11:42):
Why are we asking thosequestions?
What are we looking for?
What's our criteria?
And the short answer to that isthere was really no strategy
there.
And so I was like, I want tosit in on these interviews.
Like I love to ask questions.
You know I love askingquestions.
I think I can help.
I think I can be super helpfuland valuable in the interview
(12:04):
process.
And so I started sitting in onall these interviews, which I
love, I love to interviewingbecause again, it's really just
starting to understand somebodyelse's story, somebody else's
wiring, what makes them unique?
What are they good at?
How do they operate?
What motivates them?
What drives them?
Are they going to be a good fitin this organization or not?
(12:28):
And what do we need to pull tothe surface in order to be able
to make a confident decision?
And so, interview afterinterview, over years really of
sitting in, I started to do thesame thing I'd done before.
I was just like, okay, whatquestions am I asking?
Why am I asking thesequestions?
What am I looking for?
(12:49):
How can I streamline this?
How can I not waste time in aninterview?
Because once again, you onlyhave so much time.
The R team was busy, thecandidates are busy.
And so you have to make themost of what you can do within
an hour or within two one-hourinterviews or 30 minutes.
You know, there wasn't a lot oftime.
(13:11):
So we really had to maximizethe time.
And so I was like, okay, whatquestions do we need to ask?
What can we throw out thewindow?
What aren't gonna really giveus the information that we need?
And I started to deconstructthat process and come up with
like a process and a frameworkand to get it really dialed in
(13:33):
to the point where it's like Ifelt like I could walk into an
interview and knew exactly whatI needed to ask and knew exactly
why I knew what I was lookingfor, and I could go faster and
faster and faster and makeconfident, consistent decisions
each time, knowing like, okay,yes, this person is gonna be a
good hire.
And they have the naturalwiring.
(13:55):
They're going to be a fit forthis organization because I knew
our brand.
I knew that clarity.
I knew what we valued, I knewour work style, I knew the type
of environment that we had, Iknew the skill sets required for
the role.
Then in the interview, I justfigured had to figure out okay,
does this person fit with that?
(14:16):
Does this person align withthat?
So I figured out how to do thatorganically and streamline that
whole process.
And then as I launched ClearAuthentic Brands, I had to
realize, okay, I can't always bein the interview.
Like what I want to do is Iwant to teach other business
owners how to ask thesequestions and why to ask these
(14:37):
questions and what it is thatwe're looking for.
And what I realized justthrough my own journey is the
way that I asked questions, notonly to tell a brand story, but
also to identify a candidate'snatural wiring and fit, it
basically followed the sameframework.
(14:58):
It was built off of the samepremise.
And then even taking a stepfurther back than that, I
started to realize that even inmy day-to-day conversations,
even when I was buildingrelationships with people, just
with friends or at church, I wasdoing this same thing.
(15:18):
And it always started with astory and it always started with
understanding how is thisperson wired?
What motivates this person?
What are they good at?
What do they care about?
And how would we align them ina role or in an area where
they're really honing in on thatand they're able to grow and
(15:40):
develop and bring meaningfulimpact and contribution to what
it is they're doing, which isthe same premise for a business.
When a business knows what itis that they care about, what it
is they value, the things thatmake them unique, the things
that they are the best at, howcan they hone in on those things
(16:01):
to really set themselves apartin the marketplace and not even
compete with competitors anymorebecause they're uniquely and
distinctly different andexcellent because they know what
they bring bring to the table.
And so it all comes back tothis identity piece, right?
Identity and people andidentity and branding and
(16:24):
figuring out what that isthrough the way that we ask
questions because it's all foundin things that already exist.
So that is what I want to walkthrough is the actual framework.
So whether you are trying toidentify your own brand or your
(16:46):
hiring, this is the more likevery relevant and applicable
version of this, is if you'rehiring.
And I do have this frameworkfor you.
If you go to ClearAuthenticBrands.com slash resources,
there is the download there, andit's just called interviewing
for natural wiring.
So I did position this as likeuse this in an interview because
(17:08):
for a business owner, this isgoing to come in handy more
often than not.
But the the framework is thesame.
And so we want to understanddoes this person's natural
wiring fit in with what it isthat we're looking for?
(17:29):
And really, it's important toknow what questions to ask, and
that is going to map back toyour specific criteria.
And you're not going to haveyour specific criteria unless
you are clear on your own brandidentity.
So knowing what you value,knowing what your work style is,
knowing what yournon-negotiables are, knowing
(17:51):
what personality traits you'relooking for, that is key because
that is going to give you thecriteria.
And then what questions you askare actually going to map back
to that criteria.
So if you want to know what itis you need to clarify for your
brand, I also have thatavailable on the resources page
(18:11):
as well.
But if we know what questionsthat we need to ask, then how we
ask them is equally asimportant.
And this is like the piece thatI've just discovered I was
doing organically without everrealizing that, oh, this is this
(18:32):
is a framework.
This is something that can berepeated and implemented by
anyone who wants to learn how toask better questions so that
they can pull more informationto the surface.
And it's really based on fivelayers.
So it's about going deeperwithin a specific question vein.
(18:57):
So it's like, okay, what is thespecific criteria that we're
looking for?
Well, if we're interviewing,and let's say we're interviewing
for a sales position, one ofthe criteria we would be looking
for is someone who has thenatural wiring to build
relationships.
So we want to know that this isa person who naturally builds
(19:18):
relationships.
This isn't something that wewant to have to coach or train
or force.
It's something where it's likeif someone is good at building
relationships, what do we needto ask and how do we need to ask
it in order to know if this ispart of their natural wiring?
So, with that specific examplein mind, we're gonna walk
(19:39):
through the five levels of whatwe would ask and how we would
ask it in order to determinethat.
And so the first thing wealways start is we start with
just an open anchoring question.
So this is just how we startthe conversation.
And it really just establishesthe baseline for this vein.
And we're gonna basically askthem how they would approach
(20:03):
building relationships.
So how would they approach thatspecific ability or skill?
So I would just say somethinglike, tell me about how you've
built relationships from theground up, or tell me about how
you approach buildingrelationships.
Like I would just start theconversation and I would leave
it very open, very broad,because I don't want to lead
(20:24):
them in this conversation.
I want to see what it is thatthey bring to the surface
without me digging and withoutme prompting.
So whether they go off on atangent or they give me a lot of
specific examples, or maybethey just say something that
sounds good and then they kindof leave it at that.
I just want to see where are weat.
(20:47):
That's my baseline.
So level two with that is weare going to specifically ask
for details.
So we want to know that thereare specific examples of how
they have built relationships.
Now, if you're looking at howyou've built sales
relationships, you don't evenhave to be specific to sales
(21:09):
because you just need someonewho's naturally wired to build
relationships.
And so they're gonna do thisthroughout all different
contexts of their life.
But if they naturally buildrelationships, they will have
stories of how they've builtrelationships, and that's what
we're looking for.
We're looking for real lifestories, like what have we
(21:31):
actually lived through?
Who were the people?
When did this happen?
What was the context?
What was the resistance thatyou faced?
How did you overcome that?
I want to know give me examplesin your life of how you've
built relationships.
And so I would ask for morethan one.
(21:51):
I would just say, give me somespecific examples of how you've
done that.
And then I actually amlistening for specific context.
So I Do you want to know whendid this happen?
How did it happen?
What were the names of thepeople involved?
How long did it take?
How did the relationship growover time?
And I don't just want onestory.
(22:13):
I would like a couple ofdifferent stories.
So if someone isn't naturallyrelationship-driven or wired to
build relationships, they aregoing to struggle to give you
real hard specifics.
So they're just kind of goingto talk around it instead of
actually being like, yes, hereare 10 different stories of how
(22:34):
I've done that.
And we're going to take thateven further with the next
level, which is we're checkingfor patterns within different
contexts.
Because if you have someone whohas the natural wiring to build
relationships, then you need toknow that this behavior exists
(22:54):
outside of work.
So this is the person whostarts conversations with the
stranger next to them in thegrocery store.
This is the person who createsa new friendship from
chit-chatting it up with someoneat the gym.
This is the person who is notafraid to walk up to somebody
who they see as a new kid on thefirst day of school and
(23:17):
befriend them.
So we're looking for it couldbe stories of how you built
relationships with yourneighbors, your friends at
school, teammates, people atchurch, work context.
Like what we want are multipledifferent contexts and even
better in different seasons oflife.
(23:38):
So this is what it would looklike in high school, this is
what it looked like in college,this is what it looked like in
my new jobs.
That's how you know if someoneis naturally outgoing and has
the ability to buildrelationships.
And then we're going to takethat even further.
And so we're going to take thatto the next level, which is now
at level four.
And we're going to look forvalidation from other people.
(24:01):
So what we want to do is wewant to confirm that for the
people who know them reallywell, they would also speak to
this ability, being like, yes,this person naturally builds
relationships and they've seenit happen over and over again.
So we're validating from otherpeople that this behavior, this
(24:26):
wiring, is a recognized part oftheir reputation because we can
think what we want aboutourselves, but having other
people in our life alsorecognize that in us, that
validates that this really isapparent to other people.
(24:47):
And so how I would ask that isI would say, who else in your
life would say that you're greatat building relationships?
And what would they say?
What have they said?
And I'm always looking forspecifics on things that have
happened.
So I don't even like to saywhat would they say.
(25:08):
I would rather say what havethey said?
Like tell me about things thatyour wife has said or your kids
have said or your bosses havesaid about your ability.
Because if other people aren'tspeaking into their life to say,
man, I see this in you.
I see how tenacious you are, Isee how hardworking you are, I
(25:28):
see how creative you are, I seehow meticulous you are.
If other people don't recognizeit in you, then that is a red
flag.
So we are looking forconsistency in multiple
contexts, in multiple examples,as well as from multiple
different perspectives.
And then the final level ofdepth, which is now at level
(25:51):
five, is understanding thedriver behind that behavior.
And so we're looking at what isthe belief, what is the
intrinsic motivation that drivesthis behavior of why building
relationships is important toyou, how you feel when you're
(26:12):
building relationships andunderstanding like this is
something that they're gonna dobecause they can't even help
themselves.
Like it's something that itmatters to them.
Maybe they see someone who isstanding there all alone and
they just there's a pull,there's a guilt, there's drive.
Like they they're just like, Ihave to go and talk to this
(26:32):
stranger.
I mean, what is it that drivesthe person to start
chit-chatting it up with theperson next to them when they're
standing in line at the postoffice?
Like, there's plenty of peoplewho are happy to stand there and
just be quiet or be on theirphone or just don't even want to
be bugged, like, don't talk tome, don't buck me.
And then there's that personwho's like, so, and they're
(26:55):
making jokes and they'retalking, or the person who
creates a connection withsomeone at the airport.
So I actually did that onetime.
I I was stuck in Denver and Ihad a nine-hour delay.
I was traveling at Christmas,there were winter storms.
I had made it to the Denverairport and I'd flown out of
(27:19):
Montana, and I happened to bewearing a MSU Bobcat t-shirt
that day, and I was standing inline waiting to find out, you
know, when when my flight wasgonna be rescheduled.
And there was a guy who waslike, Hey, Montana.
And I was like, Yeah, you know,and over the next nine hours, I
(27:45):
hung out with that guy and gotto know him.
And we had dinner and we justhung out at the airport together
because we were happened tohave both flown from Bozeman
connecting in Denver, and wewere both headed to the East
Coast for Christmas.
But you just, you he just hewas actually the one who like
(28:05):
naturally struck up theconversation, not even me, but I
mean, that's those are thetypes of stories that we're
looking for.
It's like, oh yeah, like that,this has happened in multiple
different scenarios.
So we know that this person isnaturally relationship driven or
has the ability to buildrelationships.
(28:27):
And so I would basically takethis framework and for every
specific criteria that I'mlooking for.
Like if I'm looking for someonewho's organized and systems
driven, or someone who'sincredibly tenacious, or someone
who has the ability to thinkcritically, or someone who has
the ability to prioritize andtriage in a high-stakes
(28:47):
environment, I would take thatcriteria, that behavior, and
then I would break it down intothese five levels of questions
in order to feel like, is thispart of this person's wiring?
Is this part of this person'sstory?
Because it's people who arenaturally wired to thrive in
(29:12):
those specific situations thatare going to do well.
And I even start this with myown like, I love to ask
questions, and here's all thesestories of how I ask questions.
And here's why I loveinterviewing or why I am good at
finding people's stories, isbecause my natural wiring in my
(29:33):
brain and my mind that I've beendoing since I was a kid, is I
just I can't even help it.
I mean, I was I was listeningto my husband's conversation
with his mom on the phone.
We were in the car, and so thethe phone calls on speaker, and
they're it was like Mother'sDay, and so I was calling her
(29:53):
and just like asking, you know,a few questions, like and I just
sat there and listened becauseyou know, he would ask her
something and she would respond.
And then he would just like letthat response slide and ask
something different, and then mymind immediately I'm just like,
what about this?
And what about this?
And and just like 10 morequestions, and it's so hard
(30:16):
because internally I'm likestressing inside, like I feel
this pressure and this wellingup because there's all these
questions that you could beasking that you're missing these
opportunities to ask, and hedoesn't have that, he doesn't
feel that, he doesn't have thatstress.
And when he listens to me onhave conversations, he's he's
(30:36):
just like sometimes is likemesmerized by the fact that it's
like Amy, you asked so manyquestions.
But he also knows that one thatis like my superpower, that is
my unique gifting, and it's it'scome into play in our in our
business, in our relationship,in our my relationship with our
(31:00):
kids, in how we've connected andengaged with people in so many
different areas.
And in the same way that whileI am obsessive and crazy about
asking questions, he's like thatwith his tenacity and with his
work ethic.
And I could never ever live upto that level that he does, no
(31:22):
matter how hard I tried.
And so that's what we'relooking for.
We're looking for people whohave the natural wiring so that
they can one, be authentic towho they are.
They can thrive with how Godcreated them, with how he
naturally wired them.
So they can bring the highestimpact and the highest value to
(31:45):
their job, to their role, to thepeople around them, but they're
gonna feel that sense ofpurpose.
They're gonna feel that senseof meaning.
Like when I'm asking questions,it is my favorite thing to do
in the world.
And I feel purpose and I feelmeaning in being able to do
that.
Whereas, you know, if I'mspending my time in other
(32:07):
things, that's not, it doesn'tgive me that same level of
purpose or meaning.
So this allows us to be embraceour own unique identity, to
embrace our own unique wiring,to see that there's purpose and
meaning in it.
We get to feel that.
And then we get to spend ourtime in roles where it makes us
(32:30):
come alive, but then it alsojust delivers incredible
contribution and incredibleimpact to the role itself, which
means it affects the businesspositively.
It affects our work and thepeople around us positively.
And it there we avoiddisengaged employees, we avoid
(32:50):
people who are struggling to doa good job because they're just
not naturally wired to do itthat way.
And then for you as a business,knowing that this is your
unique identity, these are yourvalues, this is the traits of
the people that you're lookingfor, this is the natural wiring.
(33:11):
Clarity on your brand identityis what is going to help you
interview better.
It's gonna help you hirebetter.
So if this was valuable, youcan grab this framework at
ClearAuthentic Brands.com slashresources.
I also have the brand clarityelements on there as well.
(33:31):
But that is all for thisepisode.
I will see you next time.
Podcast, and I'm your host, Amy Dardis.
And in this episode, we arewalking through the framework on
how to ask questions thatreveal a person's natural
wiring.
I love asking questions.
Asking questions is my favoritething to do, and it's something
that has served me wellthroughout my life and in
(00:35):
various different contexts ofbusiness, which I'm actually
going to share with you about.
But the specific applicationthat we're actually going to
dive into is asking questions inan interview because hiring the
right people for your brand issuper important.
Like hiring people, I think isthe most important thing that
(01:00):
you do, not only to benefit youas the business, you as the
leader, but specifically tobenefit the employee, the actual
individual.
Because when people are workingin their natural wiring, that
is actually what has the mostimpact that delivers the most
value and the most contribution,not only to the business, but
(01:24):
to the individual themselves.
And a lot of times what happensin interviewing is we don't
always know exactly whatquestions to ask.
And so we'll ask a lot ofpopular questions in an
interview.
And candidates will give us alot of really good answers, but
then we'll hire them and we'llfind out that what they said
(01:47):
isn't an accurate reflection ofhow they actually operate and
their natural wiring.
And so we see the disconnect,and then there's friction and
there's frustration and there'stension.
And what we want to do is wewant to get around that.
Now, how I learned to getaround that was something that I
(02:07):
stumbled into, but I did itthrough my own natural wiring.
And if you've been followingthe podcast for any length of
time, we talk a lot aboutnatural wiring.
And then specifically in thisepisode, we're going to talk
about my second favorite topic,which is asking questions.
So I love asking questions, andI love asking questions to an
(02:33):
extreme.
For example, I was talking tomy friend the other day, and she
was telling me about her day,and she just was said something
super casual like, Yeah, I'vebeen eating a lot of sugar
lately.
And for anyone else, they wouldjust be like, Okay, cool, and
just like glide right over that.
But my mind pauses on that andthinks, well, what kind of sugar
(02:57):
have you been eating?
Is this candy?
Is this chocolate?
And what amounts?
And what's leading you to dothis?
And how do you feel afterward?
Are you feeling guilt?
Are there any symptoms?
Is your face breaking out?
Do you feel good afterwards?
Is there something going on inyour life that's leading you to
want to eat this sugar?
(03:18):
And what time of the day areyou eating this sugar?
I mean, there's within aninstant, there are 20 questions
that just immediately come tomind that I'm just like, I can't
even help myself.
And this actually came up whenI was a kid.
I noticed I was asking way morequestions than everybody else
was, and people would getannoyed by it.
(03:41):
And I didn't think anything ofit.
In my head, it was justsomething where, well, doesn't
everybody have these questions?
Doesn't everybody want to knowall of this information?
And it wasn't until I actuallygot married and met like was in
relationship and living with myhusband for a few years and
really starting to understandsomebody else at a very deep
(04:04):
level to realize, like, how comeyour brain doesn't have 50 more
questions that my brain has?
But oftentimes what we think isnormal or average or something
that's maybe not even a giftingends up being something that
really is our natural wiring andbecomes a superpower.
(04:25):
And so for years of my life, Ithought nothing of this
question-asking thing.
I assumed everybody asked asmany questions as I did, that
their brains worked the sameway.
And it wasn't until I gotmarried that I realized that
other people's brains don't worklike this.
And it wasn't until I started abusiness that I started to
(04:45):
realize that this is actually agifting.
And it started to open so manymore doors than I ever could
have even imagined.
So in the early days of usstarting our web design and
marketing agency, we were brandnew.
We had no credibility, noproof, no testimonials, nothing
(05:05):
to offer.
We also had no budget, nomarketing strategy, nothing.
And our business suffereddeeply because of that.
Like in our business, in ourmarriage, in our finances, in
our life, things were completelyfalling apart.
And as a Hail Mary, as a lastditch, I have nothing left to
(05:31):
offer attempt.
I started to join somenetworking groups and I started
to make connections within justthe local community and the
local chamber.
And in my head, I was like,okay, I have nothing to offer.
I feel just completely brokeninside.
I have zero self-confidence,but I can go and I can build
(05:54):
relationships and I can askquestions and I can learn about
other people.
I can learn about otherpeople's businesses.
I can be genuinely curious andgenuinely interested.
That's all I have to do.
I just I'm gonna start withjust trying to network and get
to know people.
And my way of getting to knowpeople was by asking questions.
(06:18):
And through that process, Iactually ended up getting
business.
Like people started hiring usto build their website without
me even selling them.
I would just meet someone andbe like, hey, I'm building a
business and uh you have thisbusiness, and I would just love
to learn about your story andwhat you do.
(06:40):
Would you want to have coffeesometime?
And people would be like, Yeah,sure.
And we would go and have coffeeand I would just ask them,
like, how'd you get started?
And what led you to that?
And, you know, how's it going?
And we would just build arelationship.
And because of that, oftentimespeople would end up being like,
(07:00):
Hey, what do you do?
And be like, Oh, we buildwebsites.
I'm like, Can you build mine?
Like, sure.
And that ended up opening thedoor not only to new business
and new relationships, but alsoto a really important part of
our process, which wasunderstanding the business.
It was understanding the story,it was understanding what made
(07:22):
them unique.
And I was so genuinelyinterested in that.
And so what started as justpure fascination, I ended up
being able to pull out what madethem unique and what their
target market was and what theircore offerings were, and how to
message that and how toarticulate that.
(07:43):
And through that process, Iactually ended up realizing too
that most businesses actuallystruggled to articulate that.
And when they would hire us tobuild their website, whether it
was a new website or oftentimesa redesign of a website that
wasn't working, that wasn'tconverting, when I asked them
questions, they could tell metheir story.
(08:04):
But if I was like, hey, can youwrite me some content that so I
can put this on your website?
That's where things would stallout because they just wouldn't
be able to articulate it or putinto words or even know
specifically what it was thatthey needed to hone in on.
And so I realized that one,this is a huge stalling point.
And two, I'm hearing your storyand I'm seeing it.
(08:28):
It makes total sense to mebecause of all of the questions
that I'm able to ask and I knowwhat I'm looking for.
And so I'm just pulling it up.
And over time, I started to onerealize that this was a super
valuable process.
It made the website better, itmade their marketing better, it
made our process way morestreamlined, way more efficient.
(08:49):
And so I started to analyzelike, what am I doing when I'm
sitting down with these businessowners?
What questions am I asking?
And why am I asking thosequestions?
And what specifically am Ilooking for?
And when I find thatinformation, how am I going to
take that information and put iton their website?
And what is really importantand what's just extra?
(09:12):
And I started to basicallydeconstruct what I just did
organically without really evenbeing aware of what I was doing
so that I could hone in on thisprocess even more.
So I could make sure that everysingle time I went and sat down
with a client, I got everythingthat I needed.
I didn't want to have to goback and ask follow-up
(09:34):
questions.
I wanted to know that I hadeverything I needed and I wanted
to get it as quickly and asefficiently as possible because
small business owners are busy.
They don't have time formultiple meetings.
And a lot of my clients wereowner operators, like they were
busy running the business.
And so I always felt thispressure on time.
(09:56):
And so I was like, let me justmake the most of it.
Like, can I do this in an hour?
Can I do this in 90 minutes?
And how can I get everythingthat I need?
And what parts of their storyam I focusing on?
And so I started to map outthis process to a point where it
was just completely smooth,completely streamlined.
(10:17):
And within a 90-minuteconversation, I could get
everything that I needed towrite their entire website
content, to understand theirtarget market, to understand
what made them different fromtheir competitors, to be able to
identify their process andtheir core offering, where it
really made sense within mybrain.
(10:38):
Like I felt like I knew thisbrand because I knew what
questions to ask and how I wasactually approaching the
questions themselves.
So I had that process fullyrefined.
And eventually I ended up goingto work for a gas and welding
(10:59):
distributor.
And I was on their leadershipteam and I worked as an employee
inside the business for aboutfive years.
And through that time, I gotmore and more involved in the
hiring and interviewing side ofthe business because we first
started doing all the brandclarity stuff and figuring out
(11:22):
our story and our values andwhat made us different.
And then I realized that wewere having issues with who we
were hiring.
Some hires were working outgreat and some weren't.
And it was very painful and itwas very expensive.
And so I was like, what are wedoing in our hiring process?
Like, who, what questions arewe asking?
(11:42):
Why are we asking thosequestions?
What are we looking for?
What's our criteria?
And the short answer to that isthere was really no strategy
there.
And so I was like, I want tosit in on these interviews.
Like I love to ask questions.
You know I love askingquestions.
I think I can help.
I think I can be super helpfuland valuable in the interview
(12:04):
process.
And so I started sitting in onall these interviews, which I
love, I love to interviewingbecause again, it's really just
starting to understand somebodyelse's story, somebody else's
wiring, what makes them unique?
What are they good at?
How do they operate?
What motivates them?
What drives them?
Are they going to be a good fitin this organization or not?
(12:28):
And what do we need to pull tothe surface in order to be able
to make a confident decision?
And so, interview afterinterview, over years really of
sitting in, I started to do thesame thing I'd done before.
I was just like, okay, whatquestions am I asking?
Why am I asking thesequestions?
What am I looking for?
(12:49):
How can I streamline this?
How can I not waste time in aninterview?
Because once again, you onlyhave so much time.
The R team was busy, thecandidates are busy.
And so you have to make themost of what you can do within
an hour or within two one-hourinterviews or 30 minutes.
You know, there wasn't a lot oftime.
(13:11):
So we really had to maximizethe time.
And so I was like, okay, whatquestions do we need to ask?
What can we throw out thewindow?
What aren't gonna really giveus the information that we need?
And I started to deconstructthat process and come up with
like a process and a frameworkand to get it really dialed in
(13:33):
to the point where it's like Ifelt like I could walk into an
interview and knew exactly whatI needed to ask and knew exactly
why I knew what I was lookingfor, and I could go faster and
faster and faster and makeconfident, consistent decisions
each time, knowing like, okay,yes, this person is gonna be a
good hire.
And they have the naturalwiring.
(13:55):
They're going to be a fit forthis organization because I knew
our brand.
I knew that clarity.
I knew what we valued, I knewour work style, I knew the type
of environment that we had, Iknew the skill sets required for
the role.
Then in the interview, I justfigured had to figure out okay,
does this person fit with that?
(14:16):
Does this person align withthat?
So I figured out how to do thatorganically and streamline that
whole process.
And then as I launched ClearAuthentic Brands, I had to
realize, okay, I can't always bein the interview.
Like what I want to do is Iwant to teach other business
owners how to ask thesequestions and why to ask these
(14:37):
questions and what it is thatwe're looking for.
And what I realized justthrough my own journey is the
way that I asked questions, notonly to tell a brand story, but
also to identify a candidate'snatural wiring and fit, it
basically followed the sameframework.
(14:58):
It was built off of the samepremise.
And then even taking a stepfurther back than that, I
started to realize that even inmy day-to-day conversations,
even when I was buildingrelationships with people, just
with friends or at church, I wasdoing this same thing.
(15:18):
And it always started with astory and it always started with
understanding how is thisperson wired?
What motivates this person?
What are they good at?
What do they care about?
And how would we align them ina role or in an area where
they're really honing in on thatand they're able to grow and
(15:40):
develop and bring meaningfulimpact and contribution to what
it is they're doing, which isthe same premise for a business.
When a business knows what itis that they care about, what it
is they value, the things thatmake them unique, the things
that they are the best at, howcan they hone in on those things
(16:01):
to really set themselves apartin the marketplace and not even
compete with competitors anymorebecause they're uniquely and
distinctly different andexcellent because they know what
they bring bring to the table.
And so it all comes back tothis identity piece, right?
Identity and people andidentity and branding and
(16:24):
figuring out what that isthrough the way that we ask
questions because it's all foundin things that already exist.
So that is what I want to walkthrough is the actual framework.
So whether you are trying toidentify your own brand or your
(16:46):
hiring, this is the more likevery relevant and applicable
version of this, is if you'rehiring.
And I do have this frameworkfor you.
If you go to ClearAuthenticBrands.com slash resources,
there is the download there, andit's just called interviewing
for natural wiring.
So I did position this as likeuse this in an interview because
(17:08):
for a business owner, this isgoing to come in handy more
often than not.
But the the framework is thesame.
And so we want to understanddoes this person's natural
wiring fit in with what it isthat we're looking for?
(17:29):
And really, it's important toknow what questions to ask, and
that is going to map back toyour specific criteria.
And you're not going to haveyour specific criteria unless
you are clear on your own brandidentity.
So knowing what you value,knowing what your work style is,
knowing what yournon-negotiables are, knowing
(17:51):
what personality traits you'relooking for, that is key because
that is going to give you thecriteria.
And then what questions you askare actually going to map back
to that criteria.
So if you want to know what itis you need to clarify for your
brand, I also have thatavailable on the resources page
(18:11):
as well.
But if we know what questionsthat we need to ask, then how we
ask them is equally asimportant.
And this is like the piece thatI've just discovered I was
doing organically without everrealizing that, oh, this is this
(18:32):
is a framework.
This is something that can berepeated and implemented by
anyone who wants to learn how toask better questions so that
they can pull more informationto the surface.
And it's really based on fivelayers.
So it's about going deeperwithin a specific question vein.
(18:57):
So it's like, okay, what is thespecific criteria that we're
looking for?
Well, if we're interviewing,and let's say we're interviewing
for a sales position, one ofthe criteria we would be looking
for is someone who has thenatural wiring to build
relationships.
So we want to know that this isa person who naturally builds
(19:18):
relationships.
This isn't something that wewant to have to coach or train
or force.
It's something where it's likeif someone is good at building
relationships, what do we needto ask and how do we need to ask
it in order to know if this ispart of their natural wiring?
So, with that specific examplein mind, we're gonna walk
(19:39):
through the five levels of whatwe would ask and how we would
ask it in order to determinethat.
And so the first thing wealways start is we start with
just an open anchoring question.
So this is just how we startthe conversation.
And it really just establishesthe baseline for this vein.
And we're gonna basically askthem how they would approach
(20:03):
building relationships.
So how would they approach thatspecific ability or skill?
So I would just say somethinglike, tell me about how you've
built relationships from theground up, or tell me about how
you approach buildingrelationships.
Like I would just start theconversation and I would leave
it very open, very broad,because I don't want to lead
(20:24):
them in this conversation.
I want to see what it is thatthey bring to the surface
without me digging and withoutme prompting.
So whether they go off on atangent or they give me a lot of
specific examples, or maybethey just say something that
sounds good and then they kindof leave it at that.
I just want to see where are weat.
(20:47):
That's my baseline.
So level two with that is weare going to specifically ask
for details.
So we want to know that thereare specific examples of how
they have built relationships.
Now, if you're looking at howyou've built sales
relationships, you don't evenhave to be specific to sales
(21:09):
because you just need someonewho's naturally wired to build
relationships.
And so they're gonna do thisthroughout all different
contexts of their life.
But if they naturally buildrelationships, they will have
stories of how they've builtrelationships, and that's what
we're looking for.
We're looking for real lifestories, like what have we
(21:31):
actually lived through?
Who were the people?
When did this happen?
What was the context?
What was the resistance thatyou faced?
How did you overcome that?
I want to know give me examplesin your life of how you've
built relationships.
And so I would ask for morethan one.
(21:51):
I would just say, give me somespecific examples of how you've
done that.
And then I actually amlistening for specific context.
So I Do you want to know whendid this happen?
How did it happen?
What were the names of thepeople involved?
How long did it take?
How did the relationship growover time?
And I don't just want onestory.
(22:13):
I would like a couple ofdifferent stories.
So if someone isn't naturallyrelationship-driven or wired to
build relationships, they aregoing to struggle to give you
real hard specifics.
So they're just kind of goingto talk around it instead of
actually being like, yes, hereare 10 different stories of how
(22:34):
I've done that.
And we're going to take thateven further with the next
level, which is we're checkingfor patterns within different
contexts.
Because if you have someone whohas the natural wiring to build
relationships, then you need toknow that this behavior exists
(22:54):
outside of work.
So this is the person whostarts conversations with the
stranger next to them in thegrocery store.
This is the person who createsa new friendship from
chit-chatting it up with someoneat the gym.
This is the person who is notafraid to walk up to somebody
who they see as a new kid on thefirst day of school and
(23:17):
befriend them.
So we're looking for it couldbe stories of how you built
relationships with yourneighbors, your friends at
school, teammates, people atchurch, work context.
Like what we want are multipledifferent contexts and even
better in different seasons oflife.
(23:38):
So this is what it would looklike in high school, this is
what it looked like in college,this is what it looked like in
my new jobs.
That's how you know if someoneis naturally outgoing and has
the ability to buildrelationships.
And then we're going to takethat even further.
And so we're going to take thatto the next level, which is now
at level four.
And we're going to look forvalidation from other people.
(24:01):
So what we want to do is wewant to confirm that for the
people who know them reallywell, they would also speak to
this ability, being like, yes,this person naturally builds
relationships and they've seenit happen over and over again.
So we're validating from otherpeople that this behavior, this
(24:26):
wiring, is a recognized part oftheir reputation because we can
think what we want aboutourselves, but having other
people in our life alsorecognize that in us, that
validates that this really isapparent to other people.
(24:47):
And so how I would ask that isI would say, who else in your
life would say that you're greatat building relationships?
And what would they say?
What have they said?
And I'm always looking forspecifics on things that have
happened.
So I don't even like to saywhat would they say.
(25:08):
I would rather say what havethey said?
Like tell me about things thatyour wife has said or your kids
have said or your bosses havesaid about your ability.
Because if other people aren'tspeaking into their life to say,
man, I see this in you.
I see how tenacious you are, Isee how hardworking you are, I
(25:28):
see how creative you are, I seehow meticulous you are.
If other people don't recognizeit in you, then that is a red
flag.
So we are looking forconsistency in multiple
contexts, in multiple examples,as well as from multiple
different perspectives.
And then the final level ofdepth, which is now at level
(25:51):
five, is understanding thedriver behind that behavior.
And so we're looking at what isthe belief, what is the
intrinsic motivation that drivesthis behavior of why building
relationships is important toyou, how you feel when you're
(26:12):
building relationships andunderstanding like this is
something that they're gonna dobecause they can't even help
themselves.
Like it's something that itmatters to them.
Maybe they see someone who isstanding there all alone and
they just there's a pull,there's a guilt, there's drive.
Like they they're just like, Ihave to go and talk to this
(26:32):
stranger.
I mean, what is it that drivesthe person to start
chit-chatting it up with theperson next to them when they're
standing in line at the postoffice?
Like, there's plenty of peoplewho are happy to stand there and
just be quiet or be on theirphone or just don't even want to
be bugged, like, don't talk tome, don't buck me.
And then there's that personwho's like, so, and they're
(26:55):
making jokes and they'retalking, or the person who
creates a connection withsomeone at the airport.
So I actually did that onetime.
I I was stuck in Denver and Ihad a nine-hour delay.
I was traveling at Christmas,there were winter storms.
I had made it to the Denverairport and I'd flown out of
(27:19):
Montana, and I happened to bewearing a MSU Bobcat t-shirt
that day, and I was standing inline waiting to find out, you
know, when when my flight wasgonna be rescheduled.
And there was a guy who waslike, Hey, Montana.
And I was like, Yeah, you know,and over the next nine hours, I
(27:45):
hung out with that guy and gotto know him.
And we had dinner and we justhung out at the airport together
because we were happened tohave both flown from Bozeman
connecting in Denver, and wewere both headed to the East
Coast for Christmas.
But you just, you he just hewas actually the one who like
(28:05):
naturally struck up theconversation, not even me, but I
mean, that's those are thetypes of stories that we're
looking for.
It's like, oh yeah, like that,this has happened in multiple
different scenarios.
So we know that this person isnaturally relationship driven or
has the ability to buildrelationships.
(28:27):
And so I would basically takethis framework and for every
specific criteria that I'mlooking for.
Like if I'm looking for someonewho's organized and systems
driven, or someone who'sincredibly tenacious, or someone
who has the ability to thinkcritically, or someone who has
the ability to prioritize andtriage in a high-stakes
(28:47):
environment, I would take thatcriteria, that behavior, and
then I would break it down intothese five levels of questions
in order to feel like, is thispart of this person's wiring?
Is this part of this person'sstory?
Because it's people who arenaturally wired to thrive in
(29:12):
those specific situations thatare going to do well.
And I even start this with myown like, I love to ask
questions, and here's all thesestories of how I ask questions.
And here's why I loveinterviewing or why I am good at
finding people's stories, isbecause my natural wiring in my
(29:33):
brain and my mind that I've beendoing since I was a kid, is I
just I can't even help it.
I mean, I was I was listeningto my husband's conversation
with his mom on the phone.
We were in the car, and so thethe phone calls on speaker, and
they're it was like Mother'sDay, and so I was calling her
(29:53):
and just like asking, you know,a few questions, like and I just
sat there and listened becauseyou know, he would ask her
something and she would respond.
And then he would just like letthat response slide and ask
something different, and then mymind immediately I'm just like,
what about this?
And what about this?
And and just like 10 morequestions, and it's so hard
(30:16):
because internally I'm likestressing inside, like I feel
this pressure and this wellingup because there's all these
questions that you could beasking that you're missing these
opportunities to ask, and hedoesn't have that, he doesn't
feel that, he doesn't have thatstress.
And when he listens to me onhave conversations, he's he's
(30:36):
just like sometimes is likemesmerized by the fact that it's
like Amy, you asked so manyquestions.
But he also knows that one thatis like my superpower, that is
my unique gifting, and it's it'scome into play in our in our
business, in our relationship,in our my relationship with our
(31:00):
kids, in how we've connected andengaged with people in so many
different areas.
And in the same way that whileI am obsessive and crazy about
asking questions, he's like thatwith his tenacity and with his
work ethic.
And I could never ever live upto that level that he does, no
(31:22):
matter how hard I tried.
And so that's what we'relooking for.
We're looking for people whohave the natural wiring so that
they can one, be authentic towho they are.
They can thrive with how Godcreated them, with how he
naturally wired them.
So they can bring the highestimpact and the highest value to
(31:45):
their job, to their role, to thepeople around them, but they're
gonna feel that sense ofpurpose.
They're gonna feel that senseof meaning.
Like when I'm asking questions,it is my favorite thing to do
in the world.
And I feel purpose and I feelmeaning in being able to do
that.
Whereas, you know, if I'mspending my time in other
(32:07):
things, that's not, it doesn'tgive me that same level of
purpose or meaning.
So this allows us to be embraceour own unique identity, to
embrace our own unique wiring,to see that there's purpose and
meaning in it.
We get to feel that.
And then we get to spend ourtime in roles where it makes us
(32:30):
come alive, but then it alsojust delivers incredible
contribution and incredibleimpact to the role itself, which
means it affects the businesspositively.
It affects our work and thepeople around us positively.
And it there we avoiddisengaged employees, we avoid
(32:50):
people who are struggling to doa good job because they're just
not naturally wired to do itthat way.
And then for you as a business,knowing that this is your
unique identity, these are yourvalues, this is the traits of
the people that you're lookingfor, this is the natural wiring.
(33:11):
Clarity on your brand identityis what is going to help you
interview better.
It's gonna help you hirebetter.
So if this was valuable, youcan grab this framework at
ClearAuthentic Brands.com slashresources.
I also have the brand clarityelements on there as well.
(33:31):
But that is all for thisepisode.
I will see you next time.
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