May 19, 2024 • 25 mins
Have you ever felt alone in a crowd or disconnected in your neighborhood, where houses stand close but people seem worlds apart? This episode peels back the layers of modern society's paradox of personal isolation in a world of hyper connectivity. Over a simple morning coffee, Joey came across an awkward social situation with some other parents when their kids interacted; despite the closeness of our homes, our money and privilege seems to be distancing us from each other.
As we navigate the concrete jungles of our daily lives, do we really see the people around us? This episode uncovers the role of basic human interaction in creating not only a safer society but one that thrives emotionally.
Finally, we confront the elephant in the room – social media. With its glossy veneer depicting life as a highlight reel, it's easy to get lost in the facade and forget the authenticity of messy, real-life connections. Through personal anecdotes, Joey & JT illustrate how social platforms often skew our reality, and why finding solace in genuine communal activities, like the sidelines of a children's soccer game, can offer us a lifeline.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
So I'll talk you through the scenario yesterday
and how this is part of agreater thing that I've been
observing for years A theme,yeah, and stewing on.
So I woke up hungover yesterday, which doesn't have to do with
the story, but just out ofinterest I was hungover.
(00:23):
I'm not often hungover on aweekend, so you feel you were
less filtered as a result.
Yeah, but yeah, but it didn't.
Doesn't play into the tale.
Okay, um, woke up.
My son was up, so you know hewanted to.
He wanted to, like, you know,just fucking rip into the day at
like 6 am and so you know Ihumid him for a little bit and I
was like go on, then let's goup to the shops.
(00:44):
We'll like go and get like a,get you a baby Chino and I'll
have a coffee.
It'll be great.
You know you can ride his bikeand shit.
So we went up to the cafe.
My son's three right, three anda bit.
You know, I'm just saying thatfor the listeners, sure, sure,
(01:12):
and you know it's people walkingtheir dogs, it's families, kids
on bikes, it's all that shit.
It's nice.
Went to the cafe and as you goin there's you kind of have to
like squeeze past people who aresitting in chairs and and often
there's kids and dogs andthere's these two little girls
playing and their parents aresitting right there, mom and dad
.
And one of the little girlsgoes hi, leo, to my son.
You know his name's, leo, andand Leo, and Leo didn't say
anything, which he often does.
And I was like oh, and I'm likeLeo, is this one of your
friends from school, trying tokind of prompt him to like
(01:33):
engage with her?
And he didn't say anything.
I'm like do you guys go todaycare together?
And she said we do.
And I look at his parents andhis the mum's looking at me like
I've got two heads.
She's like why that?
Like what are you?
Why are you talking to mydaughter?
Kind of look, and she goeskid's cottage, which is the name
(01:55):
of the place, and I'm like yeah, yeah, that's the one.
And I'm like, oh cool, how areyou guys doing?
And no one says shit.
There's a husband, he's justsitting there like I don't know,
like nothing, ignoring you.
Yeah, basically, the themother's like got this awkward
kind of look, and I'm like oh,what's your name?
To the little girl and she'slike, oh, my name's, you know
(02:16):
son's?
Oh, cool and I'm like all right, well, you know, we go inside
and order, and that was kind ofthat sure.
And then we went and sat andthen I spoke to my son and I was
like mate, you know, the girlsaid hello to you, like you
should say hi back, you know.
So I said when she comes out,I'd like you just to wave and
say bye, you know.
And sure enough he did, andthen she waved and then she runs
(02:36):
over and gives him a cuddle,it's all you know, real cute.
But the parents like didn'tacknowledge me like once Even
then, right after we'd had that,and I was disappointed.
But I was like fuck, it's justanother run on the board.
For I think it's a symptom ofthis modern, privileged western
(03:02):
life where people don't have to,they don't have to be aware of
their surroundings yeah,everyone's got money, you don't
need the people in yourcommunity, yeah, you don't have
to know your neighbor.
And and so people just don'tknow their neighbor, they don't
make eye contact, they don't sayanything, and it's this awkward
(03:24):
kind of and I say it's awestern thing, because if you
live in a fucking country, likeif you live in central america,
yeah, you fucking know yourneighbors, everyone knows
everyone.
Yeah, like, maybe maybe up inthe rich suburbs, maybe it's
more like this, yeah, butgenerally, right, you go to
brazil, it's like I know that'snot central south america, but
you go to, like, parts of theworld where people don't have as
much.
Generally, people are moreconnected.
(03:45):
Yeah, they're more connected,they're more human and it's like
and that's actually like whatwe thrive on, right, like that's
this human experience and Ijust, I always look at it and
I'm like you, fucking idiots.
But do you think this is?
I agree with you?
Right, I see it, I understandwhat you're saying exactly and
I'm not I'm not disagreeing inany way.
(04:07):
I guess my question would be isthis a product of being where
you are?
Because you are near, even ifit's not your suburbs
specifically, but you're nearsome fairly affluent suburbs,
near where you are, yeah,there's people who might own a
boat or there's people who might, you know, they don't, yeah,
you know they don't engage.
(04:27):
They don't necessarily engagewith society or reality in a in
a real way.
Yeah, yeah, too much money, ohfor sure, like, yeah, I think
it's.
I think it's definitely more ofa thing when people have got
more money.
Yes, right, but you know, tothat point I don't know.
I mean, like you live, you liveout west, right?
Yes, um, you know it's lower onthe socioeconomic scale,
(04:51):
definitely.
However, yeah, to live like insydney, even in a lower, so
you're still gonna have a lot ofmoney, like that's like sure,
it still costs more than amillion bucks to live in penrith
.
Yeah, so does that, like I'msure is it, would it?
Is it somewhat the same outthere, or do you feel like that
thing that I described wouldn'thappen as much?
No, I think it still happens,but I'm wondering if this isn't
(05:13):
just a product of money, if thisis a product of the society
we're living in now, which is aslightly more socially isolated
existence, which is people thinkbeing social is like.
I remember during COVID, we hada high school reunion which was
online.
I didn't go to it, I wasactually traveling, but my best
(05:35):
mate said, yeah, everyone waslike a live Facebook event that
people had to go to online andobviously it was COVID.
But what I'm saying is, I think,as a by-product of this, people
working at home more often,even though it's great for
family life, like you with yourkids and stuff like that
Technology, even though it hasconvenienced us, has created
(05:57):
division, not connection.
Yeah, so I, I just, I thinkit's modernity, I think it's
technology, I think it'saffluence.
Yeah, you know, and I'm workingclass, joey was fucking rubbed
the wrong fucking way, right,but I get it all the time Like I
want to just hug them awkwardly, just like, hey, just be a
hugger.
We hug in my family and theywere like I actually wanted to
like are you guys fucking forreal?
(06:17):
Like are you right, cut?
Like cause here's the otherside of it.
Like, like here in my home, like, all right, people are like,
people have a inability to talkto strangers.
Yeah, right, they don't makeeye contact, they don't address
strangers, but at the same time,everyone's got fucking anxiety
(06:38):
and depression, sure, and feelslike shit and overwhelmed.
And you're like, hmm, where'sthis coming from?
We know that, as a fuckingspecies, we benefit and we feel
good when we're connected withthose around us.
Agreed, you know.
And this is like and of courseit's a very urban thing as well.
Right, it wouldn't happen somuch, maybe in rural areas, but
(07:00):
it's like.
It's like can't people see that?
Like it's actually it's nice tobe like hey, good morning, like
how you doing.
Yeah, you know that feels good.
Everyone wants that.
It's almost old school.
Yeah, it's interesting.
So, going back to like, I visitmy parents very regularly and
it's mainly old people.
You know the suburb I grew upin, springwood, in the Blue
(07:20):
Mountains.
It's either retirees or youngfamilies.
Interestingly enough, it's theold people, when you walk down
the street, who give you thegood day how's it going Top of
the morning?
That kind of young people don'tdo that.
No, they do not do that.
You don't.
This idea of acknowledgingpeople, looking someone in the
eye, this kind of thing, notimportant People on their phone,
(07:43):
they don't give a shit, they'rein their own zone.
And I think that, yeah, likeyou're saying, it's a, a,
whether it be cultural oraffluence, but definitely modern
culture has evolved in this way, which has separated us because
we maybe don't feel we needeach other and so maybe it's
just selfish.
There's a selfishness that'sbeen manifested, yeah, yeah,
(08:05):
which is which is sad in a way.
Oh, it's so sad because it'slike you know.
I mean it's great when you havean exchange with someone and
you're like yeah, like it.
Just, I don't know, it's just ahuman thing.
It makes the day nicer, youknow, yeah, and here's the other
side of it for me is thatthere's a complete disregard for
(08:25):
personal safety, right and allright.
So one of the other things weknow, like, okay, sure, like,
violent attacks don't happen alot right on the streets here,
but not in australia, no, but,but does happen, right, still
happens.
Um, but you know, child abuseis huge.
Sure, right, child abuse ishuge.
Um, you know, sexual abuse ofwomen, like all that shit goes
(08:49):
on all the time.
Sure, one of the best things youcan do to just know what's
going on around you and havelike a finger on the pulse is
know each person.
You know so the eye contact.
Hey, good morning man.
Hey, how are you?
Yeah, I've seen you here before.
Like, you know, like that is asafety measure as well, as it's
a nice human thing to connectwith you.
(09:10):
It's a nice human thing toconnect with you.
It's like a safety measure tobe like, hey, I've like, yeah,
trust there.
Yeah, some trust, but I'm alsoletting you know that I see you.
Yeah, you know, for whatever,that is Right, joey's fucking
watching.
Yeah, like, and I and I, youknow, it's like you walk past
someone and they don't make eyecontact, they don't look at you
and they're looking down.
You're like, dude, like you getrobbed in a heartbeat.
(09:33):
I could just fucking snatchyour phone or like just kick you
to the ground, like, and thathappens all over the world, it
doesn't happen here.
So now and this is the privilegeside of it where it's like you
can just walk around completelyoblivious to your surroundings
and probably never pay a pricefor it and probably never pay a
price for it, well, maybe, yeah,I agree with you, but what I'm
(09:54):
seeing and it's not I mean thisin no mean way people crossing
the road on their phone.
Don't fucking do that.
You're crossing the road, right.
You teach a young kid think ofyour son.
You know, look left, look right, or look right, look left,
depending on where you are inthe world.
You know you teach kids tocheck before they cross the
fucking road so they don't die.
But you've got grown people ontheir phone.
(10:17):
You know, like I only usuallywear my… Noise-canceling
earphones.
Yeah, I have noise-cancelingearphones, but I usually only
wear them if I'm in a cafe orI'm somewhere where I don't want
to hear the noise.
Usually, if I'm going on mymorning walk, I'll just have my
normal kind of earbud earphonesin and I always keep a bit of a
peripheral awareness.
That's just really.
(10:39):
It's not paranoia, no, but it'san appropriate amount of
paranoia, learned habit.
Something could happen.
I need to be able to hear anambulance.
I need to be able to hear like,yes, I need to be able to hear
an ambulance.
I need to be able to hear like,you know, I need to be here,
someone walking behind me.
I need to hear an old lady thatneeds help, like it's not
always something sinister, it'slike you need to be
(11:00):
participating in the environmentthat you're in.
So what do we do about this,joe, because I'm with you on
this, I agree with you on thisand it's I don't know.
I don't have the answer, butwhat do you think?
Are you inviting the lovelyinner circle here to start a
(11:24):
conversation?
Look someone in the eyes.
Is this like a fight club?
If someone doesn't make eyecontact with you, I want you to
fucking blindside them.
Teach a lesson.
Let that be a statement to therest of the community.
No, first rule of the innercircle we don't talk about the
inner circle.
So I think, if you so, if you'relike, oh yeah, like I think if
you don't engage with people andyou're one of those folks
(11:46):
that's like, yeah, I keep tomyself, don't fucking do it.
Like, change that.
Like change that behavior.
Become comfortable withaddressing strangers, smiling,
nodding, you know, nodding thehead.
Acknowledge, yeah, like thethumb, you know whatever.
You don't have to speak to them, but acknowledge.
You don't have to fucking talkto everyone.
You don't have to have like I'mthat guy.
(12:06):
I'll often end up havingconversations all over the place
, sure, and it's kind of funny,and I'm like no, you don't have
to be me, but just don't beoblivious to the people around
you, because I think, like youmiss out on so much of life.
Like I traveled for a year and ahalf and I spent most of that
(12:27):
time by myself.
I hooked up with differentpeople at different times, but a
huge amount of time by myself.
Right, I hooked up withdifferent people at different
times, but huge amount of timeby myself.
I had so many epic experiencesbecause I was available to
fucking chat with someone yeah,you're open to it Some girl that
I'm sitting across from on thetrain in Denmark conversation.
The next thing we spend a weektogether.
(12:48):
I'm staying at her family'sbeach house, you know, or the
old guy that loves smoking pipes, and have a conversation with
him about why he's smoking, soromantic for him, just things.
You're like that wouldn't havehappened if I was afraid of
talking to strangers or if I hadmy head down on my phone.
Yes, and so I think, like youknow, whatever you're going up
the road to get a coffee, you'renot trying trying to have this
(13:10):
crazy, it's not.
You're not traveling in Denmark, you're not necessarily trying
to have an experience, but thereis something there that you're
missing out on by not beinginvolved.
Yeah, and so that I that's allI want for people is just like
fucking take part in, because weall get home at the end of the
day and we all get stuck in ascroll hole at some point and we
feel like shit.
Yep, we all, we all know wespend too much time on our
(13:31):
devices.
Yeah, and there's and there'stimes we feel like shit.
So it's like the remedy forthat is do that less, but also
have real something else real,actual exchanges with real
people, real social engagement.
Yeah, like that, that'sactually fucking nourishing for
your soul.
Yeah, you know, even if it'slike that person's a bit of a
dick.
I don't need to talk to themagain.
(13:51):
Never talk to them again.
That's a cool story, you know,yeah, yeah, there's a lesson
there.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
No, I definitely agree with youand I don't want my kid
(14:14):
no-transcript pulling away fromthe conversation.
I'm kind of like I lean in, Idon't mind.
Tell me more about you.
Yeah, oh, why are you sointroverted?
What's that about childhoodtrauma?
Let's hug, yeah, no, I think.
What's that about childhoodtrauma?
(14:36):
Let's hug?
No, I think it's.
It is for me.
I can take it or leave it,because sometimes I see, uh,
group human behavior as ignorant, ig, ignorant.
I see stupidity in crowds andI'm like, fuck, I don't want a
piece of that, I don't want to.
You know, like, sometimes I seelike behavior at the mall and
I'm like, oh, why am I here?
Why am I being here?
It's not because of any kind ofsocial anxiety and it's not
(14:58):
superiority.
I just see people doing thingsthat I think is maybe below
their human potential and thatmakes me want to disengage a
little bit.
You're talking about groups ofhumans, groups of humans, groups
of humans, uh, and and probablyexample, like more consumer
behavior, right, like you'rewearing, um, maybe a blue cow
(15:21):
onesie to the mall, right, andyou also have an Apple watch and
an Apple phone and you'rebuying a $15 boba tea and then
you're buying kfc and thenyou're sitting in the food court
in the mall.
Yeah, what the fuck are youdoing with your fucking life?
(15:43):
This is fucking ridiculous.
You're 30, 32 years old.
What the fuck is this?
Don't get me wrong.
Everyone's free to live theirlife how they want, but this is
really, like that's how we'rechoosing to live our lives, like
that's a good idea.
Yeah, now, like you said before, not everyone has to be you and
not everyone has to be me.
That wouldn't make society cooland diverse.
(16:06):
But the thing which I guess nota counterpoint, but my thing, if
I think about me not wanting toengage is seeing behaviours
that make me lose faith inhumanity.
Yeah, you know, in the same way, those people not engaging with
you kind of act you a little.
You're like, oh, it rubs youthe wrong way.
You're like… what's going onwith these people that we
(16:29):
obviously share a mutual thing,which is our kids go to daycare
together, so that could be coolto just talk about.
Even if we're not best friends,we have kids of a similar age
doing a similar thing.
So this could be a talkingpoint, like, how are your kids
going?
You know, like that's friendly,that's nice, but yeah, man, I
think the challenge for me asthe person who will get into a
(16:51):
punchline in a car park over ashopping trolley, you know, I
see people walking theirshopping trolley to the edge of
their apartment block andleaving it there, yeah, and you
see this accumulation ofshopping trolleys and I'm like
the fuck is wrong with thissociety.
There's a lack of consideration,and this in some part makes me
want to not engage.
(17:11):
Yeah, you know what I mean,because like, oh, yeah, I see
this behavior and as much as Iwant to call it out, I also I'm
like god, it's just fuck youguys.
Yeah, what's what's going on,you know?
So in a way, I feel like that'skind of they're kind of
symptomatic of the same thing.
Yeah, you know, because I thinkthat like, the less you
participate in your community,the less you care about it.
(17:33):
So you do irresponsible.
So, yeah, so like I'll put theshopping show there.
Who gives a shit?
Yeah, whereas you know, likeit's been shown right, when you
have deeper connections in yourimmediate community, look after,
you are a more responsiblecontributor, yeah, participant.
So you know, yeah, it's like,yeah, you head in the phone all
day, you don't look up, youdon't fucking speak to anyone,
(17:56):
you're in your digital world andyou're in your home and then
you just kind of disrespecteverything else.
It's not rewarded.
I believe the society, at leastthe first world Western society,
does not reward good communitybehaviour.
It will penalise you for what'sviewed as bad community
behavior right, like whateverspeeding, parking, wrong crimes.
(18:19):
But good community engagement,like even the government doesn't
put money into communityanymore.
You know they cut back oncommunity spending, like PCYCs
and community centers.
They are grossly underfunded.
You know, like who's gettingthe tax exemptions Woolies and
Coles, so they can overcharge usfor the food we're buying.
Do you know what I mean?
(18:41):
Like, if we look at the mode,the conservative mode of
capitalism as it exists today,it doesn't reward community
behavior.
And I guess, speaking to yourpoint about communities where
people have less, you are moredependent on your relationships
and so therefore, you benefit,you invest.
So that's why you do it and Ithink because our society, at
(19:04):
least here in australia I don'tknow exactly you know wherever
you might be in the usa, uk,canada, wherever you are in the
world, even if you live in, likeSingapore, and you're in a
pretty wealthy end of Asia, youdon't necessarily engage with
people.
You live in your apartment, yougo to work, you do your job,
(19:25):
maybe your family, but that's it.
So I think, because we live ina society that's so focused on
money, because life is veryexpensive to live here in
Australia and Sydney, maybepeople don't leave enough
emotional or energetic bandwidthto do that.
Yeah, and I suppose my take onthat idea of like there's no,
(19:49):
you don't benefit, like there'sno reward for it, the reward I,
I believe, I believe people arepaying the price for that lack
of involvement and but they'reoblivious to it.
Yes, and they think it's, youknow, oh, no, I gotta, I gotta,
fucking buy a new car.
I gotta, you know, get that newsubscription or I need a new
(20:10):
watch.
So it's like no cunt.
Yeah, you need to have moremeaningful connections with the
people around you.
Yeah, you know, and and sowe're paying a price and the
reward is there if you want it,but we're not aware.
I guess people are not payingattention to it, they're not
incentivized by the, theexternal inputs.
(20:30):
Yeah, and maybe, like you may Ithink you might have touched on
this in a previous conversationthat maybe it's not in their
family.
You know their family doesn'tget together as much, whereas
you think about, like, hangingout with Paulie, you know, like
Polynesian family, fuckingeveryone's together, right,
cousins, brothers, sisters,aunties, like get everyone, get
the gang together.
(20:50):
Know, let's have a barbecue,let's have fucking 50 people
here.
You know like, yeah, maybe, ifthat's not really taught, like
the parents haven't set thatexample, then kids don't follow
up.
And yeah, yeah, I do thinkthat's a thing.
I mean, yeah, australians,generally, I think we don't want
to.
Um, we're really concernedabout inconveniencing somebody
(21:12):
else, yeah, and so it's like ohno, I won't disturb them, I
don't want to bother them.
Yeah, you know, and that'swhatever, a nice quirk of our
cultural personality.
It's probably a little bituptight in a way.
It's totally uptight, yeah, andit plays into that thing where
it's like, okay, well, now,because you don't want to
inconvenience anyone, youactually don't fucking talk to
anyone ever.
(21:33):
You know, like that's a problem.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Look, it's tough.
And I think what I have lovedabout BJJ is it's such a
community, it is the communitybuilder.
Yeah, there's nothing likegetting over your personal
quirks and fucking bullshit.
That just be like I personalquirks and fucking bullshit,
they just be like I'm going tofucking strangle you, cunt.
And they've got to be like I'mgoing to strangle you too, bro.
(21:54):
It smashes through all of that.
It just gets rid of it.
Yeah.
And post roll it's like beingat a festival with fucking
everybody's on MDMA.
It's like I fucking love you,man.
I fucking love you too.
Weird, stranger.
But at jiu-jitsu you get allthose great hormones and so
you're like we're together inthis crazy, weird thing we're
doing.
Yeah, but you feelpost-training like I don't know
(22:18):
about you, but you're like we'rehere and we're doing a thing
together.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's where I think likeyou know, I'm not even trying to
tie this into jiu-jitsu, butthat's where, say, having a
practice like jiu-jitsu payshuge dividends.
Like if I'm looking at allthese people, I'm like if that
guy, that father that didn'tmake eye contact at all and
(22:38):
didn't acknowledge my existence,I'm like I reckon if he trained
jits he would learn somethingabout that.
He'd turn around and he'd belike hey, joey, love the pod Bro
, a huge fan.
His wife would be like I alwayshear your voice in the car.
Yeah, like, they're good people, those people they know they
are, they are real, they're goodparticipants in society.
(22:59):
But you know, but that wouldthat would like like jiu-jitsu
has a way of breaking people.
Commonality.
It doesn't matter where you arein the social standing, whether
you're a doctor, surgeon, ceo,street sweeper, fucking who
knows, you collect the trolleysfor woolies.
You do jujitsu.
You know you're, you're, you'rebound, you're connected in a
(23:21):
way that's can't explain.
Yeah, you know, you hear it,you hear, um, people say it all
the time, like when you go, likewhen you meet great fighters.
They're really nice people,yeah, and it's like, yeah, well,
they don't like they've had todeal with a lot of insecurities
and a lot of likevulnerabilities to become that
who they are, and so they'rekind of very well calibrated in
(23:43):
terms of what can be the actualpotential of another human or
what can happen in life.
I think you know it's.
I'm not trying to place too muchweight on it, but I do think if
you train in combat yeah, youknow, you have a feel for like,
ah, okay, I had thought thisthat what would society look
like if we all trained Jiu Jitsu?
Like just everyone.
(24:03):
You, I mean, you put that you.
It would sort shit out way more.
It just would.
There'd be much moreperson-to-person understanding
and a degree of empathy, becausewhen we hear about the pain
points of people in jiu-jitsu,we feel them, we know it and
we're all going through someshit.
We've all got parents who havedied or family members with
(24:28):
problems our own health problemswe're all human or family
members with problems our ownhealth problems, we're all human
.
But jiu-jitsu, I feel, bringsthe humanity right in your
fucking face and so I thinkthat's where you go.
You know what?
I can fucking feel that, and Ithink the society part of the
social media thing is the socialdistortion of everything's
(24:48):
great all the fucking time.
It's not, everything's a PB,everything's fucking awesome and
that's just fake.
And we know it's fake, we allknow it's pretend, but still,
because this is the societalnorm, we go along with it.
And yeah, it's a challenge.
Man, I don't think that thesocial media goes away, but if
(25:10):
we have something which is acounterpoint, it doesn't have to
be jiu-jitsu.
You know it might be.
You know your kid's sports club, so then you get to hang out
with the dads and the mums ofthe kids who also play the same
sport as your kids.
That's really cool, too,because you're both doing
something in the name of yourchildren, and that's very
positive.
So you know, I definitely thinkthere's a way.
(25:33):
I definitely think there's away, but there's definitely lots
of examples that are not asinspiring.
Yeah, plenty of shit cunts outthere.
Don't be that shit, don't be ashit cunt.
That's the takeaway fromtoday's episode.
There it is, folks.
So I'll talk you through the scenario yesterday
and how this is part of agreater thing that I've been
observing for years A theme,yeah, and stewing on.
So I woke up hungover yesterday, which doesn't have to do with
the story, but just out ofinterest I was hungover.
(00:23):
I'm not often hungover on aweekend, so you feel you were
less filtered as a result.
Yeah, but yeah, but it didn't.
Doesn't play into the tale.
Okay, um, woke up.
My son was up, so you know hewanted to.
He wanted to, like, you know,just fucking rip into the day at
like 6 am and so you know Ihumid him for a little bit and I
was like go on, then let's goup to the shops.
(00:44):
We'll like go and get like a,get you a baby Chino and I'll
have a coffee.
It'll be great.
You know you can ride his bikeand shit.
So we went up to the cafe.
My son's three right, three anda bit.
You know, I'm just saying thatfor the listeners, sure, sure,
(01:12):
and you know it's people walkingtheir dogs, it's families, kids
on bikes, it's all that shit.
It's nice.
Went to the cafe and as you goin there's you kind of have to
like squeeze past people who aresitting in chairs and and often
there's kids and dogs andthere's these two little girls
playing and their parents aresitting right there, mom and dad
.
And one of the little girlsgoes hi, leo, to my son.
You know his name's, leo, andand Leo, and Leo didn't say
anything, which he often does.
And I was like oh, and I'm likeLeo, is this one of your
friends from school, trying tokind of prompt him to like
(01:33):
engage with her?
And he didn't say anything.
I'm like do you guys go todaycare together?
And she said we do.
And I look at his parents andhis the mum's looking at me like
I've got two heads.
She's like why that?
Like what are you?
Why are you talking to mydaughter?
Kind of look, and she goeskid's cottage, which is the name
(01:55):
of the place, and I'm like yeah, yeah, that's the one.
And I'm like, oh cool, how areyou guys doing?
And no one says shit.
There's a husband, he's justsitting there like I don't know,
like nothing, ignoring you.
Yeah, basically, the themother's like got this awkward
kind of look, and I'm like oh,what's your name?
To the little girl and she'slike, oh, my name's, you know
(02:16):
son's?
Oh, cool and I'm like all right, well, you know, we go inside
and order, and that was kind ofthat sure.
And then we went and sat andthen I spoke to my son and I was
like mate, you know, the girlsaid hello to you, like you
should say hi back, you know.
So I said when she comes out,I'd like you just to wave and
say bye, you know.
And sure enough he did, andthen she waved and then she runs
(02:36):
over and gives him a cuddle,it's all you know, real cute.
But the parents like didn'tacknowledge me like once Even
then, right after we'd had that,and I was disappointed.
But I was like fuck, it's justanother run on the board.
For I think it's a symptom ofthis modern, privileged western
(03:02):
life where people don't have to,they don't have to be aware of
their surroundings yeah,everyone's got money, you don't
need the people in yourcommunity, yeah, you don't have
to know your neighbor.
And and so people just don'tknow their neighbor, they don't
make eye contact, they don't sayanything, and it's this awkward
(03:24):
kind of and I say it's awestern thing, because if you
live in a fucking country, likeif you live in central america,
yeah, you fucking know yourneighbors, everyone knows
everyone.
Yeah, like, maybe maybe up inthe rich suburbs, maybe it's
more like this, yeah, butgenerally, right, you go to
brazil, it's like I know that'snot central south america, but
you go to, like, parts of theworld where people don't have as
much.
Generally, people are moreconnected.
(03:45):
Yeah, they're more connected,they're more human and it's like
and that's actually like whatwe thrive on, right, like that's
this human experience and Ijust, I always look at it and
I'm like you, fucking idiots.
But do you think this is?
I agree with you?
Right, I see it, I understandwhat you're saying exactly and
I'm not I'm not disagreeing inany way.
(04:07):
I guess my question would be isthis a product of being where
you are?
Because you are near, even ifit's not your suburbs
specifically, but you're nearsome fairly affluent suburbs,
near where you are, yeah,there's people who might own a
boat or there's people who might, you know, they don't, yeah,
you know they don't engage.
(04:27):
They don't necessarily engagewith society or reality in a in
a real way.
Yeah, yeah, too much money, ohfor sure, like, yeah, I think
it's.
I think it's definitely more ofa thing when people have got
more money.
Yes, right, but you know, tothat point I don't know.
I mean, like you live, you liveout west, right?
Yes, um, you know it's lower onthe socioeconomic scale,
(04:51):
definitely.
However, yeah, to live like insydney, even in a lower, so
you're still gonna have a lot ofmoney, like that's like sure,
it still costs more than amillion bucks to live in penrith
.
Yeah, so does that, like I'msure is it, would it?
Is it somewhat the same outthere, or do you feel like that
thing that I described wouldn'thappen as much?
No, I think it still happens,but I'm wondering if this isn't
(05:13):
just a product of money, if thisis a product of the society
we're living in now, which is aslightly more socially isolated
existence, which is people thinkbeing social is like.
I remember during COVID, we hada high school reunion which was
online.
I didn't go to it, I wasactually traveling, but my best
(05:35):
mate said, yeah, everyone waslike a live Facebook event that
people had to go to online andobviously it was COVID.
But what I'm saying is, I think,as a by-product of this, people
working at home more often,even though it's great for
family life, like you with yourkids and stuff like that
Technology, even though it hasconvenienced us, has created
(05:57):
division, not connection.
Yeah, so I, I just, I thinkit's modernity, I think it's
technology, I think it'saffluence.
Yeah, you know, and I'm workingclass, joey was fucking rubbed
the wrong fucking way, right,but I get it all the time Like I
want to just hug them awkwardly, just like, hey, just be a
hugger.
We hug in my family and theywere like I actually wanted to
like are you guys fucking forreal?
(06:17):
Like are you right, cut?
Like cause here's the otherside of it.
Like, like here in my home, like, all right, people are like,
people have a inability to talkto strangers.
Yeah, right, they don't makeeye contact, they don't address
strangers, but at the same time,everyone's got fucking anxiety
(06:38):
and depression, sure, and feelslike shit and overwhelmed.
And you're like, hmm, where'sthis coming from?
We know that, as a fuckingspecies, we benefit and we feel
good when we're connected withthose around us.
Agreed, you know.
And this is like and of courseit's a very urban thing as well.
Right, it wouldn't happen somuch, maybe in rural areas, but
(07:00):
it's like.
It's like can't people see that?
Like it's actually it's nice tobe like hey, good morning, like
how you doing.
Yeah, you know that feels good.
Everyone wants that.
It's almost old school.
Yeah, it's interesting.
So, going back to like, I visitmy parents very regularly and
it's mainly old people.
You know the suburb I grew upin, springwood, in the Blue
(07:20):
Mountains.
It's either retirees or youngfamilies.
Interestingly enough, it's theold people, when you walk down
the street, who give you thegood day how's it going Top of
the morning?
That kind of young people don'tdo that.
No, they do not do that.
You don't.
This idea of acknowledgingpeople, looking someone in the
eye, this kind of thing, notimportant People on their phone,
(07:43):
they don't give a shit, they'rein their own zone.
And I think that, yeah, likeyou're saying, it's a, a,
whether it be cultural oraffluence, but definitely modern
culture has evolved in this way, which has separated us because
we maybe don't feel we needeach other and so maybe it's
just selfish.
There's a selfishness that'sbeen manifested, yeah, yeah,
(08:05):
which is which is sad in a way.
Oh, it's so sad because it'slike you know.
I mean it's great when you havean exchange with someone and
you're like yeah, like it.
Just, I don't know, it's just ahuman thing.
It makes the day nicer, youknow, yeah, and here's the other
side of it for me is thatthere's a complete disregard for
(08:25):
personal safety, right and allright.
So one of the other things weknow, like, okay, sure, like,
violent attacks don't happen alot right on the streets here,
but not in australia, no, but,but does happen, right, still
happens.
Um, but you know, child abuseis huge.
Sure, right, child abuse ishuge.
Um, you know, sexual abuse ofwomen, like all that shit goes
(08:49):
on all the time.
Sure, one of the best things youcan do to just know what's
going on around you and havelike a finger on the pulse is
know each person.
You know so the eye contact.
Hey, good morning man.
Hey, how are you?
Yeah, I've seen you here before.
Like, you know, like that is asafety measure as well, as it's
a nice human thing to connectwith you.
(09:10):
It's a nice human thing toconnect with you.
It's like a safety measure tobe like, hey, I've like, yeah,
trust there.
Yeah, some trust, but I'm alsoletting you know that I see you.
Yeah, you know, for whatever,that is Right, joey's fucking
watching.
Yeah, like, and I and I, youknow, it's like you walk past
someone and they don't make eyecontact, they don't look at you
and they're looking down.
You're like, dude, like you getrobbed in a heartbeat.
(09:33):
I could just fucking snatchyour phone or like just kick you
to the ground, like, and thathappens all over the world, it
doesn't happen here.
So now and this is the privilegeside of it where it's like you
can just walk around completelyoblivious to your surroundings
and probably never pay a pricefor it and probably never pay a
price for it, well, maybe, yeah,I agree with you, but what I'm
(09:54):
seeing and it's not I mean thisin no mean way people crossing
the road on their phone.
Don't fucking do that.
You're crossing the road, right.
You teach a young kid think ofyour son.
You know, look left, look right, or look right, look left,
depending on where you are inthe world.
You know you teach kids tocheck before they cross the
fucking road so they don't die.
But you've got grown people ontheir phone.
(10:17):
You know, like I only usuallywear my… Noise-canceling
earphones.
Yeah, I have noise-cancelingearphones, but I usually only
wear them if I'm in a cafe orI'm somewhere where I don't want
to hear the noise.
Usually, if I'm going on mymorning walk, I'll just have my
normal kind of earbud earphonesin and I always keep a bit of a
peripheral awareness.
That's just really.
(10:39):
It's not paranoia, no, but it'san appropriate amount of
paranoia, learned habit.
Something could happen.
I need to be able to hear anambulance.
I need to be able to hear like,yes, I need to be able to hear
an ambulance.
I need to be able to hear like,you know, I need to be here,
someone walking behind me.
I need to hear an old lady thatneeds help, like it's not
always something sinister, it'slike you need to be
(11:00):
participating in the environmentthat you're in.
So what do we do about this,joe, because I'm with you on
this, I agree with you on thisand it's I don't know.
I don't have the answer, butwhat do you think?
Are you inviting the lovelyinner circle here to start a
(11:24):
conversation?
Look someone in the eyes.
Is this like a fight club?
If someone doesn't make eyecontact with you, I want you to
fucking blindside them.
Teach a lesson.
Let that be a statement to therest of the community.
No, first rule of the innercircle we don't talk about the
inner circle.
So I think, if you so, if you'relike, oh yeah, like I think if
you don't engage with people andyou're one of those folks
(11:46):
that's like, yeah, I keep tomyself, don't fucking do it.
Like, change that.
Like change that behavior.
Become comfortable withaddressing strangers, smiling,
nodding, you know, nodding thehead.
Acknowledge, yeah, like thethumb, you know whatever.
You don't have to speak to them, but acknowledge.
You don't have to fucking talkto everyone.
You don't have to have like I'mthat guy.
(12:06):
I'll often end up havingconversations all over the place
, sure, and it's kind of funny,and I'm like no, you don't have
to be me, but just don't beoblivious to the people around
you, because I think, like youmiss out on so much of life.
Like I traveled for a year and ahalf and I spent most of that
(12:27):
time by myself.
I hooked up with differentpeople at different times, but a
huge amount of time by myself.
Right, I hooked up withdifferent people at different
times, but huge amount of timeby myself.
I had so many epic experiencesbecause I was available to
fucking chat with someone yeah,you're open to it Some girl that
I'm sitting across from on thetrain in Denmark conversation.
The next thing we spend a weektogether.
(12:48):
I'm staying at her family'sbeach house, you know, or the
old guy that loves smoking pipes, and have a conversation with
him about why he's smoking, soromantic for him, just things.
You're like that wouldn't havehappened if I was afraid of
talking to strangers or if I hadmy head down on my phone.
Yes, and so I think, like youknow, whatever you're going up
the road to get a coffee, you'renot trying trying to have this
(13:10):
crazy, it's not.
You're not traveling in Denmark, you're not necessarily trying
to have an experience, but thereis something there that you're
missing out on by not beinginvolved.
Yeah, and so that I that's allI want for people is just like
fucking take part in, because weall get home at the end of the
day and we all get stuck in ascroll hole at some point and we
feel like shit.
Yep, we all, we all know wespend too much time on our
(13:31):
devices.
Yeah, and there's and there'stimes we feel like shit.
So it's like the remedy forthat is do that less, but also
have real something else real,actual exchanges with real
people, real social engagement.
Yeah, like that, that'sactually fucking nourishing for
your soul.
Yeah, you know, even if it'slike that person's a bit of a
dick.
I don't need to talk to themagain.
(13:51):
Never talk to them again.
That's a cool story, you know,yeah, yeah, there's a lesson
there.
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
No, I definitely agree with youand I don't want my kid
(14:14):
no-transcript pulling away fromthe conversation.
I'm kind of like I lean in, Idon't mind.
Tell me more about you.
Yeah, oh, why are you sointroverted?
What's that about childhoodtrauma?
Let's hug, yeah, no, I think.
What's that about childhoodtrauma?
(14:36):
Let's hug?
No, I think it's.
It is for me.
I can take it or leave it,because sometimes I see, uh,
group human behavior as ignorant, ig, ignorant.
I see stupidity in crowds andI'm like, fuck, I don't want a
piece of that, I don't want to.
You know, like, sometimes I seelike behavior at the mall and
I'm like, oh, why am I here?
Why am I being here?
It's not because of any kind ofsocial anxiety and it's not
(14:58):
superiority.
I just see people doing thingsthat I think is maybe below
their human potential and thatmakes me want to disengage a
little bit.
You're talking about groups ofhumans, groups of humans, groups
of humans, uh, and and probablyexample, like more consumer
behavior, right, like you'rewearing, um, maybe a blue cow
(15:21):
onesie to the mall, right, andyou also have an Apple watch and
an Apple phone and you'rebuying a $15 boba tea and then
you're buying kfc and thenyou're sitting in the food court
in the mall.
Yeah, what the fuck are youdoing with your fucking life?
(15:43):
This is fucking ridiculous.
You're 30, 32 years old.
What the fuck is this?
Don't get me wrong.
Everyone's free to live theirlife how they want, but this is
really, like that's how we'rechoosing to live our lives, like
that's a good idea.
Yeah, now, like you said before, not everyone has to be you and
not everyone has to be me.
That wouldn't make society cooland diverse.
(16:06):
But the thing which I guess nota counterpoint, but my thing, if
I think about me not wanting toengage is seeing behaviours
that make me lose faith inhumanity.
Yeah, you know, in the same way, those people not engaging with
you kind of act you a little.
You're like, oh, it rubs youthe wrong way.
You're like… what's going onwith these people that we
(16:29):
obviously share a mutual thing,which is our kids go to daycare
together, so that could be coolto just talk about.
Even if we're not best friends,we have kids of a similar age
doing a similar thing.
So this could be a talkingpoint, like, how are your kids
going?
You know, like that's friendly,that's nice, but yeah, man, I
think the challenge for me asthe person who will get into a
(16:51):
punchline in a car park over ashopping trolley, you know, I
see people walking theirshopping trolley to the edge of
their apartment block andleaving it there, yeah, and you
see this accumulation ofshopping trolleys and I'm like
the fuck is wrong with thissociety.
There's a lack of consideration,and this in some part makes me
want to not engage.
(17:11):
Yeah, you know what I mean,because like, oh, yeah, I see
this behavior and as much as Iwant to call it out, I also I'm
like god, it's just fuck youguys.
Yeah, what's what's going on,you know?
So in a way, I feel like that'skind of they're kind of
symptomatic of the same thing.
Yeah, you know, because I thinkthat like, the less you
participate in your community,the less you care about it.
(17:33):
So you do irresponsible.
So, yeah, so like I'll put theshopping show there.
Who gives a shit?
Yeah, whereas you know, likeit's been shown right, when you
have deeper connections in yourimmediate community, look after,
you are a more responsiblecontributor, yeah, participant.
So you know, yeah, it's like,yeah, you head in the phone all
day, you don't look up, youdon't fucking speak to anyone,
(17:56):
you're in your digital world andyou're in your home and then
you just kind of disrespecteverything else.
It's not rewarded.
I believe the society, at leastthe first world Western society,
does not reward good communitybehaviour.
It will penalise you for what'sviewed as bad community
behavior right, like whateverspeeding, parking, wrong crimes.
(18:19):
But good community engagement,like even the government doesn't
put money into communityanymore.
You know they cut back oncommunity spending, like PCYCs
and community centers.
They are grossly underfunded.
You know, like who's gettingthe tax exemptions Woolies and
Coles, so they can overcharge usfor the food we're buying.
Do you know what I mean?
(18:41):
Like, if we look at the mode,the conservative mode of
capitalism as it exists today,it doesn't reward community
behavior.
And I guess, speaking to yourpoint about communities where
people have less, you are moredependent on your relationships
and so therefore, you benefit,you invest.
So that's why you do it and Ithink because our society, at
(19:04):
least here in australia I don'tknow exactly you know wherever
you might be in the usa, uk,canada, wherever you are in the
world, even if you live in, likeSingapore, and you're in a
pretty wealthy end of Asia, youdon't necessarily engage with
people.
You live in your apartment, yougo to work, you do your job,
(19:25):
maybe your family, but that's it.
So I think, because we live ina society that's so focused on
money, because life is veryexpensive to live here in
Australia and Sydney, maybepeople don't leave enough
emotional or energetic bandwidthto do that.
Yeah, and I suppose my take onthat idea of like there's no,
(19:49):
you don't benefit, like there'sno reward for it, the reward I,
I believe, I believe people arepaying the price for that lack
of involvement and but they'reoblivious to it.
Yes, and they think it's, youknow, oh, no, I gotta, I gotta,
fucking buy a new car.
I gotta, you know, get that newsubscription or I need a new
(20:10):
watch.
So it's like no cunt.
Yeah, you need to have moremeaningful connections with the
people around you.
Yeah, you know, and and sowe're paying a price and the
reward is there if you want it,but we're not aware.
I guess people are not payingattention to it, they're not
incentivized by the, theexternal inputs.
(20:30):
Yeah, and maybe, like you may Ithink you might have touched on
this in a previous conversationthat maybe it's not in their
family.
You know their family doesn'tget together as much, whereas
you think about, like, hangingout with Paulie, you know, like
Polynesian family, fuckingeveryone's together, right,
cousins, brothers, sisters,aunties, like get everyone, get
the gang together.
(20:50):
Know, let's have a barbecue,let's have fucking 50 people
here.
You know like, yeah, maybe, ifthat's not really taught, like
the parents haven't set thatexample, then kids don't follow
up.
And yeah, yeah, I do thinkthat's a thing.
I mean, yeah, australians,generally, I think we don't want
to.
Um, we're really concernedabout inconveniencing somebody
(21:12):
else, yeah, and so it's like ohno, I won't disturb them, I
don't want to bother them.
Yeah, you know, and that'swhatever, a nice quirk of our
cultural personality.
It's probably a little bituptight in a way.
It's totally uptight, yeah, andit plays into that thing where
it's like, okay, well, now,because you don't want to
inconvenience anyone, youactually don't fucking talk to
anyone ever.
(21:33):
You know, like that's a problem.
Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Look, it's tough.
And I think what I have lovedabout BJJ is it's such a
community, it is the communitybuilder.
Yeah, there's nothing likegetting over your personal
quirks and fucking bullshit.
That just be like I personalquirks and fucking bullshit,
they just be like I'm going tofucking strangle you, cunt.
And they've got to be like I'mgoing to strangle you too, bro.
(21:54):
It smashes through all of that.
It just gets rid of it.
Yeah.
And post roll it's like beingat a festival with fucking
everybody's on MDMA.
It's like I fucking love you,man.
I fucking love you too.
Weird, stranger.
But at jiu-jitsu you get allthose great hormones and so
you're like we're together inthis crazy, weird thing we're
doing.
Yeah, but you feelpost-training like I don't know
(22:18):
about you, but you're like we'rehere and we're doing a thing
together.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's where I think likeyou know, I'm not even trying to
tie this into jiu-jitsu, butthat's where, say, having a
practice like jiu-jitsu payshuge dividends.
Like if I'm looking at allthese people, I'm like if that
guy, that father that didn'tmake eye contact at all and
(22:38):
didn't acknowledge my existence,I'm like I reckon if he trained
jits he would learn somethingabout that.
He'd turn around and he'd belike hey, joey, love the pod Bro
, a huge fan.
His wife would be like I alwayshear your voice in the car.
Yeah, like, they're good people, those people they know they
are, they are real, they're goodparticipants in society.
(22:59):
But you know, but that wouldthat would like like jiu-jitsu
has a way of breaking people.
Commonality.
It doesn't matter where you arein the social standing, whether
you're a doctor, surgeon, ceo,street sweeper, fucking who
knows, you collect the trolleysfor woolies.
You do jujitsu.
You know you're, you're, you'rebound, you're connected in a
(23:21):
way that's can't explain.
Yeah, you know, you hear it,you hear, um, people say it all
the time, like when you go, likewhen you meet great fighters.
They're really nice people,yeah, and it's like, yeah, well,
they don't like they've had todeal with a lot of insecurities
and a lot of likevulnerabilities to become that
who they are, and so they'rekind of very well calibrated in
(23:43):
terms of what can be the actualpotential of another human or
what can happen in life.
I think you know it's.
I'm not trying to place too muchweight on it, but I do think if
you train in combat yeah, youknow, you have a feel for like,
ah, okay, I had thought thisthat what would society look
like if we all trained Jiu Jitsu?
Like just everyone.
(24:03):
You, I mean, you put that you.
It would sort shit out way more.
It just would.
There'd be much moreperson-to-person understanding
and a degree of empathy, becausewhen we hear about the pain
points of people in jiu-jitsu,we feel them, we know it and
we're all going through someshit.
We've all got parents who havedied or family members with
(24:28):
problems our own health problemswe're all human or family
members with problems our ownhealth problems, we're all human
.
But jiu-jitsu, I feel, bringsthe humanity right in your
fucking face and so I thinkthat's where you go.
You know what?
I can fucking feel that, and Ithink the society part of the
social media thing is the socialdistortion of everything's
(24:48):
great all the fucking time.
It's not, everything's a PB,everything's fucking awesome and
that's just fake.
And we know it's fake, we allknow it's pretend, but still,
because this is the societalnorm, we go along with it.
And yeah, it's a challenge.
Man, I don't think that thesocial media goes away, but if
(25:10):
we have something which is acounterpoint, it doesn't have to
be jiu-jitsu.
You know it might be.
You know your kid's sports club, so then you get to hang out
with the dads and the mums ofthe kids who also play the same
sport as your kids.
That's really cool, too,because you're both doing
something in the name of yourchildren, and that's very
positive.
So you know, I definitely thinkthere's a way.
(25:33):
I definitely think there's away, but there's definitely lots
of examples that are not asinspiring.
Yeah, plenty of shit cunts outthere.
Don't be that shit, don't be ashit cunt.
That's the takeaway fromtoday's episode.
There it is, folks.
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