March 6, 2021 • 49 mins
On this week’s episode, I have AJ Mizes, who left his job at Facebook in San Francisco as a Global People & HR Leader to start his company The Human Reach in the middle of the pandemic (talk about taking risks).
AJ is a Career & Leadership Coach & HR Consultant and reached out to me as he loved some of the episodes on the Burn From Within show and he shared so many practical tips from real experience in his own career (the good stuff he gives to his own clients), I had to share them with you all.
In this episode, we discuss:
- How to land jobs that on paper you are not fully qualified or have the experience for
- 3 solid tips to prepare for your interview to get hired
- Top ideas to consider for a career change
- How to improve fulfillment in your current job before having to quit
- Improving your chances of promotion dramatically by deciding on one of three buckets for your career growth
- How can people at smaller organisations get their managers to take their career progression more seriously rather than just keeping their head down and getting tasks done?
- How can you work more effectively when remote working and make it actually work?
- How can you communicate with your employer to create more balance when you feel you need more time for your family or other things in your life?
- What’s the one thing that’s made AJ Mizes burn from within?
Resources:
- Register for AJ Mizes' awesome free weekly web class here
- Connect with AJ via his company at The Human Reach here and his LinkedIn profile here
- Check out the Burn From Within episode I discussed at the end called The Guide To Making Big Decision With No Regrets if you want to learn about taking regrets with no regrets here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (00:28):
On this week's episode, I have AJ Mizes
who left his job at Facebook inSan Francisco as a global people
and HR leader to start hiscompany at the human reach in
the middle of a pandemic.
Talk about taking risks.
AAJ is a career and leadershipcoach and HR consultant.
(00:49):
And he reached out to me as heloves some of the episodes on
the burn from within show andshared so many products called
tips.
From real experience in his owncareer, you know, the good stuff
that he shares with his ownclients that I had to share them
with you.
In this episode, we discuss howto land jobs that you're not
(01:10):
fully qualified or have theexperience for three solid tips
to prepare for your interview toget hired.
Top ideas to consider for acareer change.
How to improve fulfillment inyour current job before having
to quit?
Improving your chances ofpromotion dramatically by
(01:30):
deciding on one of three bucketsfor your career growth.
How can people at smallerorganizations get their managers
to take their career progressionmore seriously?
How can you work moreeffectively when remote working
and make it actually work?
And what's the one thing that'smade.
Mises.
Burn from within.
The full show notes and videosof other interviews are
(01:53):
available@burnfromwithin.comforward slash interviews.
So listen all the way through.
And enjoy I read about yourjourney of applying for a
general manager position in acompany where you didn't on
paper, have the skills for thatrole, how did you actually prove
to that employer?
(02:14):
Even though you didn't have thequalifications or the experience
on paper, that you were theright person for the job,
AJ Mizes (02:20):
That was a wild story.
And essentially I graduated inliterally the worst time that
you could ever graduate in therecession of 2009.
It doesn't make the mess intime.
So there weren't too many jobsout there for new college grads
like myself.
Yeah, it was rough.
And I had a degree inorganizational communication, so
(02:41):
I was working, I wanted to workin HR or, internal comms,
something along those lines.
And there were no jobs for newgrads at that point.
So I went into my first job outof college was a sales job
working in a hospitalitycompany.
And my job was to sell reallyhigh priced memberships to the
(03:02):
wealthy, on to these differentluxury.
What we call sports resorts.
And I'm not a very athleticperson, but I do enjoy, I enjoy
the social elements of thedifferent properties.
And I had also worked in salesduring college as well.
So I went into this role and Istarted working in sales and it
just didn't click with me.
(03:23):
I was at the top of the leaderboard.
I was making sales.
I was getting recognized for.
Having great skills and, in thisarea, but it just wasn't
fulfilling.
Like I would start every week,every month, really.
With this pit in my stomach thatI had to start at zero every
month and just this, the salesmentality just wasn't my jam.
It wasn't motivating, it wasanxiety inducing.
(03:45):
And so I knew something had tochange.
And so about six months intothat role.
The assistant general manager ofthe property that I worked at
left.
He went to go work for a financecompany.
And so it was open.
And so I went to the VP of theproperty and I applied for the
role and I had zero experience.
(04:06):
I'd never run this.
This property is like amulti-million dollar a year
revenue, 500 associates had beenthere since the seventies.
Like I had no experience doingany of that stuff, but.
What I did have was passion andleadership experience.
And so in my pitch or in myinterview to the VP, I put
(04:28):
together a whole, here's what Iwould do in my first 30 days.
Here's what I would do in myfirst 60 days.
And here's what I would do in myfirst 90 days.
And I had creative ideas thatthe property had never seen
before.
I talked about a leadershipdevelopment program.
I talked about how I eventuallywant it to be known for.
Having the best service out ofthe nine properties on the
Western seaboard.
(04:49):
And here's how I was going to doit.
And she said, you know what, I'mtaking a really big gamble,
really big risk right now, butyou got the job and do it, but
let's see you do it.
And so I I left the office.
I remember like going downstairsand like going outside and like
crying tears of joy that I hadgotten this opportunity.
(05:10):
And also this realization thathere's where the work starts.
You've got to actually do whatyou said you're gonna do.
And I did it and I started inthis new job.
I was responsible for hundredsof associates both in front of
the house and back of the house.
And we put on fashion shows forour guests.
(05:30):
And we turned our front deskinto the model of what then the
company wanted to emulate acrossall nine properties.
So then from that role, I movedinto a training and development
role where I traveled to allnine properties, teaching those
properties to do exactly what Idid in the first and then I
guess in the next year.
It was.
Oh, huge learning curve.
(05:50):
I worked my butt off I'm inhospitality.
You work every day, right?
Especially on weekends andthings like that.
All my friends were working innine to five, Monday through
Friday jobs.
But it taught me a lot aboutcreativity, perseverance.
It also taught me a lot aboutleadership and that VP that I
met with that gave me a shot.
So the big kind of ethos thatI've built my career around and
(06:13):
now the human reach is.
Yes.
Experience is important, butwhat's more important are
experiences.
And how do you parlay thoseexperiences in your career to be
relevant to the job that you'reapplying for to give people
confidence?
Matt Garrow-Fisher (06:29):
I love that.
Yeah.
And I really, I relate to it.
I, I.
When I got out of college, thejob market, as well as a similar
time to you and I, the jobmarket, wasn't great.
And I really wanted to be aconference producer, actually,
that was one of my dream jobs.
And there was a certain companythat I really wanted to work for
when I went through thesegraduate recruitment fairs.
And unfortunately I didn't getthe grades that they wanted.
(06:52):
And and so I did some temp workand I literally, I was so
passionate about getting thisjob because I really wanted it.
And I failed on all thesedifferent interviews for all the
competitors, just to learneverything about the industry.
And then I went to a, anotherrecruitment fair, and I just,
one of the employers there andjust fold them over with my
passion and said, look, I don'thave the grades, but look, this
(07:12):
is what I do have dependent andto dim.
And she, again, she was like,just like you, she was bowled
over.
She's I'm going to give you aninterview.
And then, yeah, I think I had,there was a kind of group
assessment with 50 people and Iwas the only one that, that,
that got the job, but it was thepassion.
It was the determination.
Even though you didn't have thequalifications or the
experience, you can do it.
(07:33):
If you.
If you speak to the right peopleand and you research what you
need to do, and then you'repassionate as well.
And sometimes that does, thatwins over jobs and it also wins
that if you're starting abusiness, it can win over
investors.
It can win over partners or allthat kind of stuff.
Passion really does count.
Let's fast forward to Facebook,you, you were a people manager
at Facebook What did you noticelike applications of people that
(07:58):
didn't necessarily havequalifications, but they had
that spark of passion thatimpressed people to recruit.
AJ Mizes (08:06):
Yes, I did.
And I think, there we, at bigcompanies, we call them BQs or
basic qualifications.
So sometimes you have to meetthose.
That might be like a degree or acertain number of years of
experience.
But what you'll notice on someof these jobs groups, not just
Facebook, but Google, Microsoft,Amazon.
I All the Fang companies is thatthey'll say they'll keep it
(08:27):
pretty broad.
So let's say yeah, you need 10years of.
HR of leadership experience orsomething equivalent.
So they there's a little bit ofwiggle room.
And so really what thedifference maker was.
W was becoming a referral tothose companies and, or having
an optimized LinkedIn profile sothat people would reach out.
(08:49):
So Facebook in particular has areally robust recruiting team.
It's like thousands of people.
And they, they.
Are great at reaching out tofolks.
In fact, that's how I got intoFacebook.
Someone reached out to me, theyheard, I was looking and I I
went to go interview there, butit was because I had my LinkedIn
profile optimized that they wereeven able to find me that I was
(09:10):
saying the right things on myprofile so that they, I looked
like an attractive candidate.
And then it was about me, ofcourse, nailing the interview
and getting the, in, getting anoffer.
But what the Forbes is recentlywas quoted saying that 80% of
the job market gets their jobsthrough referrals.
So that means that only 20%.
Are happening throughapplications and you probably
(09:30):
know this too.
Most people try to find work byapplying and spending their
time, applying to jobs over andover again.
And yes, that can work, but themore effective ways becoming a
referral.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (09:41):
Yeah.
And that brings me onto myquestion about how do you become
a referral?
What is the way to network?
Do you just have to be lucky andmaybe your dad or your best
friend works for one of thesecompanies or is there like a
systematic approach that you cantake and take control of that?
AJ Mizes (10:00):
A hundred percent.
Yes.
There absolutely is a systemthat you can take advantage of.
And my favorite phrase that Italked to my clients, maybe you
tell your clients as to isresults trail action.
And so you have to spend a lotof time.
Developing your network andreaching out to your network.
And this does not mean what thisdoes not mean is asking them for
(10:21):
jobs is going out.
Hey, do you know any openings ordo you know any of anybody
that's hiring?
Are you hiring right now, right?
No.
That's not networking.
And so I really think aboutnetworking is creating like a
bank.
And this bank is something thatyou deposit into multiple times
so that when you need towithdraw something, you have
some funds in the bank.
And so by depositing a what Imean is having conversations.
(10:46):
That are genuine, real andconnected.
And so asking them about what'sgoing on in their life for what
it's like working at theircompany or what advice they
would give you in your career,if you're considering making a
change, but interviewing themabout them.
And not asking for anything inreturn.
And then the law of reciprocitykicks in eventually.
(11:07):
And sometimes that leads to ajob more often than not, but
it's a numbers game.
And so you have to have multipleof these conversations to get
that bank quite full.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (11:17):
Yeah.
W I lost the last podcastthough, put out with a fellow
coach, if you own a reef, wetalked about prototyping
conversations.
Particularly for people that arelooking, they're not sure of
companies to work for, maybe noteven sure about career.
Having conversations with peoplethat you're interested in.
(11:37):
So it might be, Ooh, hang on.
There's a HR manager there atFacebook.
I think Facebook might be a coolcompany to work for.
And, I've got some experience inHR.
I don't really know if it's theright company for me.
So before even applying actuallyget to know what the job is like
asking what is the in your day,like I'm really interested in
your job.
Like what's the typical way intothat kind of career?
(12:01):
I'm not saying I'm ready yet,and I'm definitely not looking
for a job right now, but I'mreally interested in your
profile and, I'd just love toget some advice.
If you're in my shoes and ninetimes out of 10 not nine times
out of 10, but the majority ofthe time people are flattered to
be asked, for their advice andtheir experience.
AJ Mizes (12:17):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And if you think about it,especially for career changers
out there, there's a lot ofquestions that we have over
changing a career.
And and that's, sometimes thosequestions can sometimes lead to
so paralysis.
We don't actually move becausewe're like, Oh, I don't know
anything about that.
I don't know how much money Iwould make.
I don't know how happy I wouldbe.
And so that leads to peopleactually not pursuing what their
(12:37):
strengths are and to work intheir strengths.
And so I, I, a lot of times whenI'm working with clients, it's
like what questions do you haveabout, I've I have a client
right now who is working insales and wants to work in
health and fitness.
And so I was like what questionsdo you have?
If you could ask somebody, wavea magic wand, imagine, the
answers to some of thesequestions that you have, what
would they be?
What would be, how much incomecan I have?
How did you get started?
How did you, how do you build abrand?
(12:58):
Is it better to work foryourself or to work for health
and company first, before goingout on your own?
And I said, okay, awesome.
Who are three people that youcould ask that question to.
And so that then helps informand give you a really nice sense
of direction.
Hey, do you want to pursue it?
And B do you like what you hear?
And so I, yes, I totally lovedthe strategy.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (13:18):
Yeah.
And to answer that, obviously,you can read out about these
kinds of things, these jobs, andgo on online forums, but there's
something about a feltexperience of actually having a
human connection and, readingpeople's emotions, unconsciously
of ah, this guy's really cool orOh, I really understand what did
that conversation really meantsomething to me.
(13:38):
It's a different experience toactually speaking to someone
rather than reading a book aboutit or a blog.
For sure.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe market right now.
I You've, you're in careersearch.
And you also career coach aswell at the Human And you
started your company.
During the pandemic.
Is that right?
Like when you founded it,
AJ Mizes (13:59):
call me crazy.
I did crazy, man.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (14:04):
So what were the challenges from your own
personal experience in founding.
Company is particularly aroundkind of career recruitment and
career coaching during apandemic.
What have you noticed in termsof trends and demands from
clients during this pandemicversus what life was like at
(14:26):
Facebook?
For example, when you're apeople manager.
AJ Mizes (14:30):
So the first thing that I want to say is Facebook
was the best place that I everworked.
It was an incredible place, thebest people, incredibly
intelligent and smart and kindand thoughtful.
And it was the hardest decision.
To make it in terms of leavingFacebook.
I felt like I had quote unquotemade it when I got to Facebook
(14:50):
and I was there for four yearsand I would say in the last year
or so, I started getting theitch to go on my own and do
executive leadership teamdevelopment, coaching,
fractional HR stuff.
So that was the original Genesisfor the human reach was to focus
on executive leadership coachingand.
HR consulting.
And I saw this huge need inMarch of 2020, when the
(15:17):
coronavirus hit, people werelosing their jobs left and
right.
Companies were still hiring.
Yes, it was not maybe as much asit was pre pandemic, but
companies were still hiring.
And so what I was seeing is likemy friends, my coworkers, what
ha what have you just.
Fail at finding jobs.
And so I was like, there is thiswhole market out there.
(15:37):
There's this, of where I canhelp.
I know how this is done.
I know I can have people landjobs if they just knew some of
these tips or tricks or thesesecrets that I've learned over
the last 12 years.
And so I put together anotheroffering for career coaching.
I call it career amp and it tookoff like wildfire.
(15:58):
When I started in October, itwas like, it was 50% or more of
my.
Company.
And so I really saw that it wasa huge need.
And so that's really what I'vebeen focusing.
A lot of my time, I do still doexecutive coaching.
I have a lot of HR consultingclients as well, but the career
strategy and career coachingaspect of my business is super
fun.
And it's and it's great.
(16:18):
I will tell you though.
When I started my business inOctober, it was the scariest
f-ing decision that I had evermade.
I was scared shitless.
October, November and December,specifically were really scary.
Because as I was leaving a nineto five, if you will, a
consistent income and a companywhere I had generated a lot of.
(16:42):
Rapport and notoriety.
And I was a subject matterexpert and going off and doing
something on my own with noguarantees of anything.
And I really had to do that alot of work within myself.
I'm still doing it to this day.
Matter of fact, on, on mindsetand focusing on the now versus
looking all the way to Zed andunderstanding that.
(17:06):
I'm new at this, and I need togive myself permission.
I need to celebrate the smallwins.
And I and just celebrate period.
Like I think, we have a tendencyas entrepreneurs, or as business
owners to focus on everythingthat we need to fix versus The
one eating it and looking atthings that, Oh my God, I can't
believe I did this.
Or this is a new record that Ihave, or this is an, a client
success story that I'm just soproud of and it's meaningful.
(17:27):
And then in January I startedseeing a lot of my clients start
to get jobs.
And and I remember this oneclient who got a job and I just
was crying because I was just sohappy.
I was like, wow, this is, thisworking and I'm so fulfilled.
And and that kind of gave me themotivation to keep going.
But yeah, I'm what States I'llend in February.
(17:50):
So I'm five months in and it'sbeen a wild ride.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (17:53):
And that's awesome that, you've started
during a pandemic and but thingsare working out really well.
Obviously, you're like anybusiness you're learning as
you're going, but reallythrilled.
And you've got some incredible.
Incredible clients as well.
And you're on your list.
I think working with companieslike Pixar and Adobe and Amazon
as clients how, like reallyimpressive, like how did you do
(18:17):
that so quickly?
AJ Mizes (18:19):
So I'll, so those companies are both places that I
work with as in HR consulting.
And then also one of my clientsare working so my career
strategy or clients that areworking I would say it's a lot,
80% of my business so far hasbeen referrals.
So people who knew me and, knewsomeone who knew somebody and
knew that I was going off on myown.
So I think.
(18:40):
I think the biggest lesson thatI've learned is that you have to
scream from the rooftops aboutwhat you're doing and who you
can help.
And that's where I saw a lot of,their businesses fall short is
that they just weren't sayingenough of what they were doing
or who they were helping.
And it's, it was reallyuncomfortable for me because I'm
not one that like, I didn't,despite working at Facebook, I
(19:00):
wasn't really super duper activeon social media.
I didn't talk about myself toomuch unless I was like on
vacation or something.
And so moving from this phase ofusing social media for social
media, too.
Using it as a means to tellpeople what I was doing was
really uncomfortable.
And so I had to move to thisplace of being really
(19:21):
comfortable, putting myself outthere, being super-duper
vulnerable and then seeing whathappened.
And it turns out it's working.
I'm very grateful for mynetwork, but yeah, it's been a
ride.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (19:31):
You mentioned earlier about your
career ramp program and andyou've really been getting real
success and fulfillment gettingpeople hired essentially.
Without going into the innerdetails.
Is there any Kind of top tipsthat our listeners could start
to use from your experience,whether that's in your career
art program or just from yourown experience on how to
(19:54):
actually increase their chancesof landing a job in this kind
of, a lot of people would assumedifficult time during COVID.
AJ Mizes (20:05):
So one of the top things that are patterns that
I'm noticing with clients rightnow is interview technique and
how they're showing up tointerviews.
Typically, there's tons of freeresources out there that help
you with resumes and, yourLinkedIn profiles and all that
stuff.
And even then sometimes you needhelp and guidance.
And so that's its own bucket.
But interview technique is whereI'm seeing a lot of candidates
(20:26):
fall flat.
And one of my top tips in termsof interviewing is making sure
that when you are preparing tointerview, you are prepared to
answer three types of questionsand prepared, meaning that you
have actually written notes andpractice answering these
questions, not just.
Thought about it, but you'reactually putting pen to paper
(20:49):
and thinking about it.
So the three types of questionsare your exit statement.
So your exit statement is theanswer to why are you looking
for a new job right now?
You have to have a really wellrehearsed answer.
To that question in terms of, ifyou were laid off, how do you
tell that story?
If you were terminated, how youtell that story, if you're
currently working in looking tochange companies, how do you
(21:11):
tell that story?
And how has that tied back tothe opportunity?
So not just a personal selfishreason, but how do you tie that
back to the company that youwant to work for?
The second type of question thatI see people not prepare for is.
Your positioning statement.
Your positioning statement isthe answer to tell me about
yourself, which most peoplefear, but tell me about yourself
(21:35):
is actually an amazingopportunity to tell employers
who you are so that they don'tcome up with that for you.
So you, so how do you tellpeople who you are, the types of
companies that you've workedfor, the type of experiences
that you have in your top threeskills and strengths.
And then the third question thatyou need to have.
Answers for are the behavioralinterview questions, which are,
(21:56):
tell me about a time when, orwhat would you do if and having
a list or what I refer to as alibrary of those types of
stories so that you're able topick and choose depending on
what the question is.
And what I tell people is thatyou should have at least 5 to 10
of those stories in your backpocket.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (22:18):
Pretty solid tips.
I love it.
That's a kind of pretty awesomeglimpse into how some of your
programs are actually prettyeffective, to be honest.
Okay.
In terms of career change inparticular you mentioned earlier
that you have a client that'sgoing through that.
I think they worked in sales,you said, and they're looking to
get into.
Health and health and fitness.
(22:38):
How, do you advise clients toapproach career change?
Is there a kind of process youstarted to talk about the
process of actual speaking topeople in that sector and
uncovering ideas.
What are the kind of steps inthe process are important?
Do you think for someone that'slooking for career change?
AJ Mizes (23:01):
So it's important to talk about two things.
One is.
And then I feel like it's such acliche word, but one is mindset
or your approach, I would say.
And so mindset, meaningidentifying where you might have
been, paralyzed in terms ofmoving forward and why that has
prevented you from movingforward.
So really having honestconversations with you or with
your coach or with your mentoror whatever about what's
(23:23):
preventing you from taking astep.
forward And then I think it'sreally easy to get caught up in
a, to Z when really all you needto be thinking about is A to B.
And what I mean by that isthinking about, okay.
Instead of thinking about endgoal, that's great.
That's amazing to have an endgoal, but what does one step
closer to that end goal looklike?
(23:44):
Just one step and that way.
You're able just to chunk it upinto smaller steps and
accomplish things.
So for instance, when we weretalking about having
conversations with healthcoaches, right?
That's one step, that's just onestep further, and then we have
that step.
What is one step closer looklike?
What does one step closer tolook like?
So that would be my second pieceof advice.
And then the third piece ofadvice is even if you like,
(24:04):
you're in a role and you it'sjust not jiving, it's not making
your feet tingle.
When you wake up in the morning,there's lots of things that you
can do to identify.
A general direction or start tothink about other ideas.
So the first thing is to thinkabout where D where does time
get lost?
Where do you stop looking at theclock in your current job?
(24:25):
That is a really good clue as towhat you love doing another, and
this is one of my favoritethings to do with clients is to
go back and talk about whatyou'd love to doing as a kid.
What brought you joy?
What did you do with yourfriends?
What did you do when you weren'tdoing school or maybe it was
school, maybe that was somethingthat you love doing and seeing
how that.
Clue ties into what you get lostin doing now.
(24:48):
And so for instance I'll giveyou one of mine.
So I was a a big guy when I wasin my younger years.
So I loved performing on stageand singing and putting on
shows.
That's what I love doing and inmy job as let's just we'll take
my people HR leader role atFacebook, I loved putting
(25:08):
together.
Training programs, workshops lione of the things that I
developed at Facebook was thisthing called leader launch,
which was this whole thing wherewe bring managers through, and
it was in person training andonboarding and a whole bunch of
other cool stuff.
Speaking skills.
And that's where I got myselfless.
So if you look at the clue,being on stage, being in front
(25:29):
of people, putting on a program,very similar to what I loved
doing as a kid.
And that's really was thejumping off point for why I
decided I wanted to go do thisfull time because I wanted to be
more in that, play more in thatspace.
And and yeah, that's anotherthing that I recommend doing
too.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (25:45):
I love it.
Yeah.
I advise similar advice to myclients.
And also I've taken that adviceon myself as well in terms of
connecting the dots in the past.
And that there is.
If in the past you've let up indoing an activity, there's a
pattern in that activity thatyou can transfer into very
different areas of life, you'vedone it from acting to workshops
(26:07):
for leaders.
A lot of people would find that.
That hard to connect, butactually the essence of your,
the activity that you do and theprocess of it is very much
there.
So I totally get that.
Yeah.
A lot of people there, theymight be frustrated in their job
and actually kind of careerchange is not necessarily the.
The best solution before theyexplore other options.
(26:29):
When you think about people thatare.
Unhappy in their job, what stepscan they take within their own
organization that they're inright now to improve the
situation?
For example, how could theycommunicate this with their
employer?
How could they maybe exploreroutes within an organization
before actually, doing quitedramatic step of actually
(26:51):
leaving.
AJ Mizes (26:53):
So awesome that you asked that because sometimes
that is reality.
Sometimes we have to be in ourjobs for a little bit before we
can explore things outside ofbefore we get, get that
opportunity.
So th the first is.
Looking at your financialsituation.
So is it something that you can,could you, can, you, can you
afford to quit, maybe you can ormaybe you need to stay employed
(27:16):
to make it work.
So that's the very first thing,especially if things are super
duper toxic, where you are,right.
Maybe quitting is going toactually save you more in mental
spend then then you can reallytake if otherwise.
And then I think I have peoplethink about a couple of other
things.
So are there things that youcould volunteer or put your name
in the hat for, with yourcurrent supervisor, with your
(27:38):
coworkers or cross-functionalteams to help learn new skills?
So once you identify what youwant to do, are there things in
your current role where youcould start getting that
experience?
Now?
The second is what are thingsthat.
Do you that tend to like, holdyou, like identifying the things
that tend to hold you back.
So like difficulty accepting,constructive criticism or
(28:02):
discomfort, expressing yourselfor speaking up in meetings.
Are there things that you canstart to practice now in your
job that will serve you in yournext role?
The other things my third kindof tip would be, are there
things that you need from aneducation or from a like skill,
cert perspective that you mightbe able to do now while you're
(28:24):
getting a consistent paycheck toprepare you for that next move.
So is there a class you'vealways wanted to take, is there
a certification or is thereeducation reimbursement fund at
your current company that youhaven't taken advantage of?
Yeah, those would probably be mytop three tips there.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (28:39):
So a solid tips again.
So you mentioned like looking atyour financial situation of
course, and your mental healthas well, and evaluating, is it
really the right time to leave?
Looking at things that you canget experiencing now in your
current role?
What actually working out whatthings are actually holding you
back and working on them, from amindset perspective and from
practically, how can youimprove?
(28:59):
And then.
Training, training anddevelopment, like what areas,
going into your next role oryour business, like as you have
a paycheck, how can you up-skilland up-skill manage that
transition more smoothly.
Yeah.
In terms of career development,people that are for us, some
people are frustrated becausethey just can't quite get that
(29:20):
promotion.
And they don't know maybe somepeople think, Oh, my boss just
doesn't like me.
I'm never going to get apromotion.
What can people do?
And part of it is a mindsetthing.
Of course, part of it'scommunication.
What can.
What can people do to actuallyalleviate that issue if they
feel stuck in terms of wherethey are in a career level.
AJ Mizes (29:39):
Yeah.
So it's very cool common to havethis conundrum, if you will, or
to does this situation appearright in our lives.
So first, the first is torecognize you're not alone.
Th like this happens to all ofus.
And typically what I see isthere are a couple of reasons
why you may not be moving asfast as you want.
(30:00):
The first is.
Expectation setting between youand your manager.
And so oftentimes, especially,when I was in HR and HR not just
at Facebook, but anywhere.
I would ask people like theywould come to me and say, Hey,
Jay I want to get promoted.
And I'm doing all these things.
I just don't know where what I'mnot doing.
And so one of the firstquestions I would ask is when's
the last time you talked to yourmanager about this?
(30:22):
Oh, it's six months ago.
And that's a problem.
If you're only talking about it,twice a year, about your
progression on your.
Career journey.
Yes, not enough.
These stories, these should beregular conversations and shared
conversation between you andyour manager about what exists
in your current performance andwhat needs to exist in your
performance in order for you toget to the next level.
(30:43):
So whether that's a promotion ora title change, or a job change,
whatever, what have you, but itshould be crystal clear to your
manager about what you want outof your job.
And so the way that you makethis easy is to bucket your
growth into one of three things.
You either, and your careergrowth, you either want to be
promoted in your current role.
(31:03):
So maybe your, I don't know adata engineer and you want to be
a senior data engineer.
So you're staying as an IC, butjust moving to that next level.
The second bucket is to movefrom an IC to a people manager.
And when I say I see anindependent contributor to a
people manager andself-explanatory, and then the
third bucket is I actually wantto change jobs.
So I'm a data engineer and Iactually want to be in sales.
(31:26):
So when you can bucket yourcareer growth into one of those
three things, it makes it reallyeasy.
To then chart a course on whatthat looks like for your growth.
And sometimes we think aboutcareer growth, but I don't
really know what I want to do.
I, maybe I want to be peoplemanager.
Maybe I want to grow my career.
Maybe I want to change jobs, butif you can first put yourself in
one of those three buckets, thenyou can start charting a course
(31:47):
to what that looks like withyour manager, to have those
succinct conversations and thosedirect conversations with what
you want and have your managerbe your advocate.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (31:56):
Too.
Put these categories around yourcareer direction, like what
category is next for you?
And then starting to plan actionsteps around that, communicating
with your manager, maybe withyour team as well.
Like how do we make this happenin practice?
You're actually able to trackyour progress and see like what.
(32:17):
You're doing from that list ofthings that your manager said
you need to do in that bucket toto actually move forward and
have it have more of a chance ofpromotion rather than being in
the dark.
And actually saying, Oh, I'mnever going to get promoted.
Like my manager just hates me.
And I think a lot of people,they, maybe in kind of bigger
organizations like Facebook,there are.
(32:37):
Regular reviews from managers,smaller to midsize
organizations.
Sometimes that's not commonpractice to have regular
reviews.
How do you think people canapproach management to change
policy around that and actuallyget their career taken more
seriously, rather than justhaving to do their job and
making profits,
AJ Mizes (32:59):
Matt, I freaking love this question and I'm loving
this conversation.
I just want to say you're askinglike, Th there's things I love
talking about.
So the biggest piece of advicesomeone wants told me, and that
I tell everybody now is no oneshould care more about your
career than you do.
And so what that means is.
(33:20):
You as the person who wants togrow in your career, it need to
be the instigator to theseconversations.
You should not wait for yourmanager to ask you what do you
want next in your career?
Thinking about this.
No, you need to be the onetelling your manager what you
want.
And so in order to know what youwant, you need again, think
about those three buckets firstand think about what direction
you want and then have.
(33:41):
The plan to put time on yourmanager's calendar and say, Hey
manager, I'd love to spend, I'dlove to repurpose our next
one-on-one to talk about mycareer growth.
I have some ideas that I want toshare with you, and I'd love to
get your thoughts and that.
Puts the ball in their court.
You're going to go in there withyou with your thoughts and how
you want to grow.
And then it allows that personto one, receive what you're
(34:02):
saying, and then to help you puta plan together and what that
looks like.
And if you can take the reinsand start to drive the
conversation, you will get therefaster than people who just get
there because they're, theirmanager is looking out for them.
And there are those managers dothat.
Don't get me wrong.
There are managers who.
Are upfront and direct.
And having those comes andputting that maybe on their Drex
calendar, those are really greatmanagers, by the way, if you're
(34:25):
a manager that does that kudosto you but more often than not,
it doesn't happen.
And so you have to take chargeof your career.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (34:31):
And taking control is super important.
And and communicating with yourmanagers is important as well.
What, like at what point dopeople come to you for when
should people start consideringcareer?
Counseling career coaching tohelp their career.
What are the kind of typicalchallenges that you see with
(34:52):
some of the clients that, that,that come to you and that you
work with?
Now?
AJ Mizes (34:56):
People come to me with in one or two ways.
The first is if they'recurrently in a role, they're not
happy with what they're doingand they don't quite know what
it is, or maybe they have aninkling, but they don't know
exactly how to get there.
And they want soup to nuts,support everywhere from finding
what that dream job is all theway to landing that job,
(35:16):
negotiating the offer.
And then the second type ofperson that comes to me are
people who are, they knowexactly what they want, but
they're not getting anywhere.
So perhaps they're applying tojobs, not getting interviews
that are getting interviews andnot getting offers.
And they're starting to see apattern and they're not sure how
to break that pattern.
So they need someone to helpguide them to help tweak and fix
and coach things.
(35:37):
And the way that I explain thisis every great musician, every
great actor, every great sportsperson has a coach.
Every single every one of themthroughout their entire career.
And why don't we as workingprofessionals outside of that
entertainment and sports arenas,why don't we have coaches?
And so sometimes it's not a signof weakness to get a coach.
(35:58):
It's actually a sign ofstrength.
It's a sign of growth.
That's a sign of development.
Some of the greatest learningsI've ever had in my career have
been a result of coaching.
And so sometimes you just needsome help and someone to walk
side by side with you and to seethings from another lens.
And so if you're one of thosetwo buckets, that's typically
where I recommend calling acoach and getting some help.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (36:18):
For people that are maybe starting to do
remote work, now there's a lotof that, most, a lot of the
world is now doing that.
How do you how do you manageyour own teams or even con
communicate effectively duringthis kind of remote working
period?
It's tough for teams to do that.
And I know you work a lot withkind of team culture and
(36:41):
organizational development.
How can companies approach thisand how can individuals kind of
work better with these, I guessin inverted commerce constraints
of remote working,
AJ Mizes (36:53):
it's really tough out there right now.
There's a couple of things thatI'm seeing companies do really
well that contributes to havinga really strong culture as we're
moving through these times, I'dsay the first thing is that
they've adopted ways to touchbase with our team more
frequently.
And this doesn't mean that youneed to have team meetings every
(37:14):
single day.
But what I say is that you justhave to increase the proximity
that you're spending to yourteams.
And I'm talking specifically toleaders now.
So leaders need to increase theamount of times that they're
touching base with their team.
It could be through Slackmessage every day.
It could be through a stand-upmeeting.
It could be through increasedone-on-ones.
It could be, those lots ofdifferent ways to do it.
But just having more times tojust check in and see how things
(37:36):
are going on a human level.
And I'm not saying Oh, how'sthat project going?
Are you going to meet thatdeadline?
That's not what I mean.
But if you think about theoffice you're running into
people at the refrigerator,you're running into people in
the elevator, you're catching upon what you did that weekend.
You're catching up on howpeople's, how people are feeling
or you're sharing a funny joke,you have to replace that we're
human beings, we're socialcreatures.
(37:57):
And so if we're just expected tobe in this transactional
environment where we're, onvideos all day and just updating
people on what's happening inour work and not having those
social moments, you're going tosee a decrease in engagement and
in a decrease in happiness andyour team.
Creating those, the proximity issuper important.
And then I think Beingrespectful of the hardships that
(38:20):
come with working from home,especially those with small
children those that perhaps havedepression working from home and
not seeing people, there's likethe realities that come with
this reality that we're in.
And so I S in the beginning ofthe pandemic, we saw a lot of
people putting on happy hoursthat like five o'clock like
virtual zoom, happy hours, orteam dinners and things like
that.
(38:40):
And I just want you to just askyourself a question after being
on a zoom calls for eight hoursa day, do you really think that
people want to stay on.
Into the nighttime hours on morezoom calls, nine times out of
10.
It's probably a no right.
Exactly.
Agree with you on that.
(39:00):
Yeah.
And I get it the intent isawesome.
Like we want to spend timetogether.
We want we would have gone outto the bar and go to drinks, but
it's just not the same people.
And what I would say is, arethere things that you can do in
the working day?
That still have a break to thework that you're still providing
levity and fun.
And to the work that you do sothat you're not taking time away
from people who need that breakafter, five o'clock hits.
(39:23):
So how can you shift your teambuilding stuff to the middle of
the day versus the end?
Yeah.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (39:28):
Yeah.
I love it.
In terms of balance, There'sincreasing workloads for some
people and stresses buildingwith working from home.
Some people, as you said have tomanage like homeschooling and
families and that kind of stuff.
When you need, when you feellike you need more balance in
your life, because maybe there'sjust too much going on.
How do you communicate that withyour employer without Kind of
(39:51):
losing respect and kind ofchances of promotion.
Is there a way of doing that?
Or do you just do you just do itand just hope they don't notice?
AJ Mizes (40:01):
And I I know that there are companies out there.
In fact, my sister wasinterviewing at a company who
like was not.
Cognizant that there are peoplelike that.
There were people who had kidsat home and they needed to go
pick up their kids and leave andthey couldn't work, straight
eight to five, like they neededto be flexible and this company
was not flexible at all.
So she declined the offerbecause they were so terrible.
(40:23):
The advice that I would give isthat you absolutely want to be
upfront about what you need tobe supported.
This is, these are unprecedentedtimes.
This is the worst pandemic thatwe've ever had in.
Recent history.
And there are realities givenwhere we are socially in terms
of, schooling and technologythat allow us to keep working,
(40:44):
which is awesome, but that comeswith a trade-off.
And so I think it's unrealisticfor companies to think that
people are going to be operatingthe same way that they would pre
March, 2020.
Yes, you absolutely should beapproaching your manager and
talking about some agreementsthat you can make around what
you need to be successful inyour role.
So having a conversation, Mattsaid, say that you're a manager.
(41:04):
Hey Matt I just wanted to talkwith you a little bit about some
situations that I have going onwith my daughter.
She has to be in school at nineo'clock.
I can't make that eight 30meeting live, but I promise I'm
going to watch the recording.
I'll ask.
Joe to take some notes for me.
And then I do have to go pickher up at three o'clock, but I
am going to stay on until six sothat I can get all my work done
(41:25):
for the day is not going to be aproblem.
And then just have it, have aconversation to have a
negotiation between you and yourmanager.
You have a human thing.
And if your manager can'tunderstand some of those things
that are going on at home,there's probably a bigger.
Thing that's going on there interms of culture, in terms of
leadership that maybe you needmake a pivot.
But for the most part, myclients both on the company side
(41:47):
and on the career coaching side,they're working at companies
that really understand that itis an anomaly to find companies
that aren't okay.
And if it's not okay, it'sprobably, they're probably not
going to last very long, but I'm
Matt Garrow-Fisher (41:57):
being quite honest.
Yeah, no, that makes totalsense.
And I think from my experienceshaving empathy for, your
colleagues for your manager andputting yourself in their shoes
when you communicate and also.
Having a kind of a solutionfocused attitude and approach
when you actually explain yoursituation, like you said, if
you're not able to do thestandard hours and what you're
(42:20):
fulfilled to do in a contract,having some flexibility in
offering alternative solutionsand just.
Just showing your manager andyour team that actually, you do,
you are conscious about theirown demands, you've got
solutions for it.
And I think most of the timewe're human aren't we, and
people can understand, buttotally, if like your sister, if
(42:42):
they just don't have.
If their policy is no, you'vegot to work these hours and that
set and that doesn't fit withyour life and your values and
what you need what's mostimportant to you, which might be
your family, then it might notbe for you.
So totally get that.
Before I asked my last question,I J where can people find, you
get to know more about the humanreach and learn more about some
(43:04):
of the career coaching servicesand career set services that you
offer.
AJ Mizes (43:10):
Absolutely.
So if you are interested incareer amp, you can check out
www dot, find my dreamcareer.com and I offer a free.
Web class every Thursday it'slive that you can check out.
And I go into further detailabout career at my top three
tips about handling how to landa job without applying online.
And if you're interested inone-on-one private coaching,
(43:32):
both leadership, coaching, or HRconsulting you can check out WW
dot the human reach.com and findout more there.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (43:41):
Awesome.
I love it.
And I love that you're doingsome free classes for people to
get to know you more.
And, they've got to know you inthis interview and some pretty
awesome tips, like practicaltips to actually help with
career career search, careerchange all of that kind of
stuff.
I will include all of theselinks in the show notes as well.
Everyone so AAJ.
My final question.
(44:01):
Now I see, now I can, I'mlooking at you now.
You're smiling, you're quitepassionate about what you do.
Not many people would leaveFacebook to start something on
their own.
You've done it.
I'm guessing because you reallywant to serve people.
You have something valuable tooffer.
And there's a certain level ofpurpose, you said yourself that,
when you placed a candidateearly on and you were crying,
(44:24):
you genuinely were fulfilled.
So there's this level offulfillment.
There's a level of passion inwhat you do purpose.
And also, you, it seems like youhave a balance in life, you're
healthy and you're doing whatyou want to do.
Passion purpose and balance.
I call that to burn from withinwhat's the one thing AAJ that's
made the biggest difference foryou in your life to burn from
(44:45):
within.
AJ Mizes (44:48):
Ooh, that makes me kind of emotional thinking about
that's a really great question.
I think the biggest thing that'sprovided or that's inspired this
burning from within has been tohonor.
Honor risks and honor.
Risk-taking and I think.
I specifically in this lasttransition, moving from Facebook
(45:09):
to this there were quite a lotof risks that I was taking and I
needed to believe in myself.
I needed to also have thesupport of my spouse and
supportive by close friends andfamily to know that I had that
support.
And to just believe in yourselfand trust that, yeah.
If you are going into somethingwith great intentions and with
(45:31):
something that you're reallypassionate about you have to
try, if you don't try, thenyou're going to have regret.
And so regret to me was maybethat other thing I was thinking
about if I was six years old,sitting at a bar somewhere
someday, one of the biggestthings that I would have
regretted is not starting my owncompany.
And so taking this risk,eliminating that potential for
(45:55):
regret was more important to methan a security and safety.
And so that's has been a reallybig shift that has fueled this
fire.
I
Matt Garrow-Fisher (46:09):
absolutely love that answer, ADA.
Honestly, I do Cote totallyresonate with it myself.
And You talk about I go on manyepisodes, I talk about the top
five regrets of the dying andhow do you minimize regrets?
And one, one of the episodes Ihave actually I'll send it to
you is an episode called bigdecision, no regrets.
And I actually included quotesfrom Jeff basis and Steve jobs.
(46:31):
Jeff Bezos has a frameworkcalled regret minimization
theory.
And it basically, it's if you'regonna make this decision to
start your business, this isexactly the framework you use
for Amazon.
Would you, would he regretcasting himself forward to when
he was 80 and looking back andthinking, would I regret.
Not starting that business orwould I regret taking the, not
(46:52):
taking the safe option and whenthe answer is obvious to you in
your gut about that, then you'vejust got to go for it because,
where is your, where, how lowcan you go?
It doesn't work and then youmight go get unemployment
benefit and.
You might live at your friend'shouse on the couch for a bit,
and then you get another job andthat's it.
But to not even try, as yousaid, and actually take a risk
(47:15):
you're not going to regret that.
So I totally understand that andreally good advice actually that
you've particularly, I thinkit's important for everyone to
hear that in these times where.
People that feel like they can'ttake risk and you've taken a
quite big risks.
And it's paying off during thepandemic and going into this
area to have to have that advicefrom someone.
(47:37):
And also support is reallyimportant as well.
Having the right support fromyour family, from your friends
and your spouse from a coachreally makes all the difference.
Hey, Jay, this has been anawesome interview.
And thank you so much once againfor being on the show.
No,
AJ Mizes (47:50):
Matt, thank you for having me.
This has been super fun.
I've really enjoyed it.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (47:53):
AJ is the man.
I love that one thing to burnfrom within, for him of taking
risks in life to avoid regretlater is so powerful.
And so transformational havingthat mindset.
And I would absolutely encourageyou to listen back to another
episode of this podcast.
If you haven't already calledbig decision.
(48:15):
No regrets, which shares clipsof past guests as well as Steve
jobs and Jeff Bezos.
In how they made decisions thatled to no regrets and a new
career and life path.
I also encourage you to checkout AJS next free web class.
You can register for it bysimply going to find my dream
(48:37):
career.com.
That's fine.
My dream career.com.
And if you enjoy this episode,go right ahead and leave a
review for this podcast.
By going to rate thispodcast.com forward slash burn
from within that's rate, thispodcast.com forward slash Ben
from within.
And stay updated with moreinspiring interviews by hitting
(48:57):
the subscribe button now on yourplayer until next time live with
passion purpose and balance andburned from within
On this week's episode, I have AJ Mizes
who left his job at Facebook inSan Francisco as a global people
and HR leader to start hiscompany at the human reach in
the middle of a pandemic.
Talk about taking risks.
AAJ is a career and leadershipcoach and HR consultant.
(00:49):
And he reached out to me as heloves some of the episodes on
the burn from within show andshared so many products called
tips.
From real experience in his owncareer, you know, the good stuff
that he shares with his ownclients that I had to share them
with you.
In this episode, we discuss howto land jobs that you're not
(01:10):
fully qualified or have theexperience for three solid tips
to prepare for your interview toget hired.
Top ideas to consider for acareer change.
How to improve fulfillment inyour current job before having
to quit?
Improving your chances ofpromotion dramatically by
(01:30):
deciding on one of three bucketsfor your career growth.
How can people at smallerorganizations get their managers
to take their career progressionmore seriously?
How can you work moreeffectively when remote working
and make it actually work?
And what's the one thing that'smade.
Mises.
Burn from within.
The full show notes and videosof other interviews are
(01:53):
available@burnfromwithin.comforward slash interviews.
So listen all the way through.
And enjoy I read about yourjourney of applying for a
general manager position in acompany where you didn't on
paper, have the skills for thatrole, how did you actually prove
to that employer?
(02:14):
Even though you didn't have thequalifications or the experience
on paper, that you were theright person for the job,
AJ Mizes (02:20):
That was a wild story.
And essentially I graduated inliterally the worst time that
you could ever graduate in therecession of 2009.
It doesn't make the mess intime.
So there weren't too many jobsout there for new college grads
like myself.
Yeah, it was rough.
And I had a degree inorganizational communication, so
(02:41):
I was working, I wanted to workin HR or, internal comms,
something along those lines.
And there were no jobs for newgrads at that point.
So I went into my first job outof college was a sales job
working in a hospitalitycompany.
And my job was to sell reallyhigh priced memberships to the
(03:02):
wealthy, on to these differentluxury.
What we call sports resorts.
And I'm not a very athleticperson, but I do enjoy, I enjoy
the social elements of thedifferent properties.
And I had also worked in salesduring college as well.
So I went into this role and Istarted working in sales and it
just didn't click with me.
(03:23):
I was at the top of the leaderboard.
I was making sales.
I was getting recognized for.
Having great skills and, in thisarea, but it just wasn't
fulfilling.
Like I would start every week,every month, really.
With this pit in my stomach thatI had to start at zero every
month and just this, the salesmentality just wasn't my jam.
It wasn't motivating, it wasanxiety inducing.
(03:45):
And so I knew something had tochange.
And so about six months intothat role.
The assistant general manager ofthe property that I worked at
left.
He went to go work for a financecompany.
And so it was open.
And so I went to the VP of theproperty and I applied for the
role and I had zero experience.
(04:06):
I'd never run this.
This property is like amulti-million dollar a year
revenue, 500 associates had beenthere since the seventies.
Like I had no experience doingany of that stuff, but.
What I did have was passion andleadership experience.
And so in my pitch or in myinterview to the VP, I put
(04:28):
together a whole, here's what Iwould do in my first 30 days.
Here's what I would do in myfirst 60 days.
And here's what I would do in myfirst 90 days.
And I had creative ideas thatthe property had never seen
before.
I talked about a leadershipdevelopment program.
I talked about how I eventuallywant it to be known for.
Having the best service out ofthe nine properties on the
Western seaboard.
(04:49):
And here's how I was going to doit.
And she said, you know what, I'mtaking a really big gamble,
really big risk right now, butyou got the job and do it, but
let's see you do it.
And so I I left the office.
I remember like going downstairsand like going outside and like
crying tears of joy that I hadgotten this opportunity.
(05:10):
And also this realization thathere's where the work starts.
You've got to actually do whatyou said you're gonna do.
And I did it and I started inthis new job.
I was responsible for hundredsof associates both in front of
the house and back of the house.
And we put on fashion shows forour guests.
(05:30):
And we turned our front deskinto the model of what then the
company wanted to emulate acrossall nine properties.
So then from that role, I movedinto a training and development
role where I traveled to allnine properties, teaching those
properties to do exactly what Idid in the first and then I
guess in the next year.
It was.
Oh, huge learning curve.
(05:50):
I worked my butt off I'm inhospitality.
You work every day, right?
Especially on weekends andthings like that.
All my friends were working innine to five, Monday through
Friday jobs.
But it taught me a lot aboutcreativity, perseverance.
It also taught me a lot aboutleadership and that VP that I
met with that gave me a shot.
So the big kind of ethos thatI've built my career around and
(06:13):
now the human reach is.
Yes.
Experience is important, butwhat's more important are
experiences.
And how do you parlay thoseexperiences in your career to be
relevant to the job that you'reapplying for to give people
confidence?
Matt Garrow-Fisher (06:29):
I love that.
Yeah.
And I really, I relate to it.
I, I.
When I got out of college, thejob market, as well as a similar
time to you and I, the jobmarket, wasn't great.
And I really wanted to be aconference producer, actually,
that was one of my dream jobs.
And there was a certain companythat I really wanted to work for
when I went through thesegraduate recruitment fairs.
And unfortunately I didn't getthe grades that they wanted.
(06:52):
And and so I did some temp workand I literally, I was so
passionate about getting thisjob because I really wanted it.
And I failed on all thesedifferent interviews for all the
competitors, just to learneverything about the industry.
And then I went to a, anotherrecruitment fair, and I just,
one of the employers there andjust fold them over with my
passion and said, look, I don'thave the grades, but look, this
(07:12):
is what I do have dependent andto dim.
And she, again, she was like,just like you, she was bowled
over.
She's I'm going to give you aninterview.
And then, yeah, I think I had,there was a kind of group
assessment with 50 people and Iwas the only one that, that,
that got the job, but it was thepassion.
It was the determination.
Even though you didn't have thequalifications or the
experience, you can do it.
(07:33):
If you.
If you speak to the right peopleand and you research what you
need to do, and then you'repassionate as well.
And sometimes that does, thatwins over jobs and it also wins
that if you're starting abusiness, it can win over
investors.
It can win over partners or allthat kind of stuff.
Passion really does count.
Let's fast forward to Facebook,you, you were a people manager
at Facebook What did you noticelike applications of people that
(07:58):
didn't necessarily havequalifications, but they had
that spark of passion thatimpressed people to recruit.
AJ Mizes (08:06):
Yes, I did.
And I think, there we, at bigcompanies, we call them BQs or
basic qualifications.
So sometimes you have to meetthose.
That might be like a degree or acertain number of years of
experience.
But what you'll notice on someof these jobs groups, not just
Facebook, but Google, Microsoft,Amazon.
I All the Fang companies is thatthey'll say they'll keep it
(08:27):
pretty broad.
So let's say yeah, you need 10years of.
HR of leadership experience orsomething equivalent.
So they there's a little bit ofwiggle room.
And so really what thedifference maker was.
W was becoming a referral tothose companies and, or having
an optimized LinkedIn profile sothat people would reach out.
(08:49):
So Facebook in particular has areally robust recruiting team.
It's like thousands of people.
And they, they.
Are great at reaching out tofolks.
In fact, that's how I got intoFacebook.
Someone reached out to me, theyheard, I was looking and I I
went to go interview there, butit was because I had my LinkedIn
profile optimized that they wereeven able to find me that I was
(09:10):
saying the right things on myprofile so that they, I looked
like an attractive candidate.
And then it was about me, ofcourse, nailing the interview
and getting the, in, getting anoffer.
But what the Forbes is recentlywas quoted saying that 80% of
the job market gets their jobsthrough referrals.
So that means that only 20%.
Are happening throughapplications and you probably
(09:30):
know this too.
Most people try to find work byapplying and spending their
time, applying to jobs over andover again.
And yes, that can work, but themore effective ways becoming a
referral.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (09:41):
Yeah.
And that brings me onto myquestion about how do you become
a referral?
What is the way to network?
Do you just have to be lucky andmaybe your dad or your best
friend works for one of thesecompanies or is there like a
systematic approach that you cantake and take control of that?
AJ Mizes (10:00):
A hundred percent.
Yes.
There absolutely is a systemthat you can take advantage of.
And my favorite phrase that Italked to my clients, maybe you
tell your clients as to isresults trail action.
And so you have to spend a lotof time.
Developing your network andreaching out to your network.
And this does not mean what thisdoes not mean is asking them for
(10:21):
jobs is going out.
Hey, do you know any openings ordo you know any of anybody
that's hiring?
Are you hiring right now, right?
No.
That's not networking.
And so I really think aboutnetworking is creating like a
bank.
And this bank is something thatyou deposit into multiple times
so that when you need towithdraw something, you have
some funds in the bank.
And so by depositing a what Imean is having conversations.
(10:46):
That are genuine, real andconnected.
And so asking them about what'sgoing on in their life for what
it's like working at theircompany or what advice they
would give you in your career,if you're considering making a
change, but interviewing themabout them.
And not asking for anything inreturn.
And then the law of reciprocitykicks in eventually.
(11:07):
And sometimes that leads to ajob more often than not, but
it's a numbers game.
And so you have to have multipleof these conversations to get
that bank quite full.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (11:17):
Yeah.
W I lost the last podcastthough, put out with a fellow
coach, if you own a reef, wetalked about prototyping
conversations.
Particularly for people that arelooking, they're not sure of
companies to work for, maybe noteven sure about career.
Having conversations with peoplethat you're interested in.
(11:37):
So it might be, Ooh, hang on.
There's a HR manager there atFacebook.
I think Facebook might be a coolcompany to work for.
And, I've got some experience inHR.
I don't really know if it's theright company for me.
So before even applying actuallyget to know what the job is like
asking what is the in your day,like I'm really interested in
your job.
Like what's the typical way intothat kind of career?
(12:01):
I'm not saying I'm ready yet,and I'm definitely not looking
for a job right now, but I'mreally interested in your
profile and, I'd just love toget some advice.
If you're in my shoes and ninetimes out of 10 not nine times
out of 10, but the majority ofthe time people are flattered to
be asked, for their advice andtheir experience.
AJ Mizes (12:17):
Yeah.
Absolutely.
And if you think about it,especially for career changers
out there, there's a lot ofquestions that we have over
changing a career.
And and that's, sometimes thosequestions can sometimes lead to
so paralysis.
We don't actually move becausewe're like, Oh, I don't know
anything about that.
I don't know how much money Iwould make.
I don't know how happy I wouldbe.
And so that leads to peopleactually not pursuing what their
(12:37):
strengths are and to work intheir strengths.
And so I, I, a lot of times whenI'm working with clients, it's
like what questions do you haveabout, I've I have a client
right now who is working insales and wants to work in
health and fitness.
And so I was like what questionsdo you have?
If you could ask somebody, wavea magic wand, imagine, the
answers to some of thesequestions that you have, what
would they be?
What would be, how much incomecan I have?
How did you get started?
How did you, how do you build abrand?
(12:58):
Is it better to work foryourself or to work for health
and company first, before goingout on your own?
And I said, okay, awesome.
Who are three people that youcould ask that question to.
And so that then helps informand give you a really nice sense
of direction.
Hey, do you want to pursue it?
And B do you like what you hear?
And so I, yes, I totally lovedthe strategy.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (13:18):
Yeah.
And to answer that, obviously,you can read out about these
kinds of things, these jobs, andgo on online forums, but there's
something about a feltexperience of actually having a
human connection and, readingpeople's emotions, unconsciously
of ah, this guy's really cool orOh, I really understand what did
that conversation really meantsomething to me.
(13:38):
It's a different experience toactually speaking to someone
rather than reading a book aboutit or a blog.
For sure.
Let's talk a little bit aboutthe market right now.
I You've, you're in careersearch.
And you also career coach aswell at the Human And you
started your company.
During the pandemic.
Is that right?
Like when you founded it,
AJ Mizes (13:59):
call me crazy.
I did crazy, man.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (14:04):
So what were the challenges from your own
personal experience in founding.
Company is particularly aroundkind of career recruitment and
career coaching during apandemic.
What have you noticed in termsof trends and demands from
clients during this pandemicversus what life was like at
(14:26):
Facebook?
For example, when you're apeople manager.
AJ Mizes (14:30):
So the first thing that I want to say is Facebook
was the best place that I everworked.
It was an incredible place, thebest people, incredibly
intelligent and smart and kindand thoughtful.
And it was the hardest decision.
To make it in terms of leavingFacebook.
I felt like I had quote unquotemade it when I got to Facebook
(14:50):
and I was there for four yearsand I would say in the last year
or so, I started getting theitch to go on my own and do
executive leadership teamdevelopment, coaching,
fractional HR stuff.
So that was the original Genesisfor the human reach was to focus
on executive leadership coachingand.
HR consulting.
And I saw this huge need inMarch of 2020, when the
(15:17):
coronavirus hit, people werelosing their jobs left and
right.
Companies were still hiring.
Yes, it was not maybe as much asit was pre pandemic, but
companies were still hiring.
And so what I was seeing is likemy friends, my coworkers, what
ha what have you just.
Fail at finding jobs.
And so I was like, there is thiswhole market out there.
(15:37):
There's this, of where I canhelp.
I know how this is done.
I know I can have people landjobs if they just knew some of
these tips or tricks or thesesecrets that I've learned over
the last 12 years.
And so I put together anotheroffering for career coaching.
I call it career amp and it tookoff like wildfire.
(15:58):
When I started in October, itwas like, it was 50% or more of
my.
Company.
And so I really saw that it wasa huge need.
And so that's really what I'vebeen focusing.
A lot of my time, I do still doexecutive coaching.
I have a lot of HR consultingclients as well, but the career
strategy and career coachingaspect of my business is super
fun.
And it's and it's great.
(16:18):
I will tell you though.
When I started my business inOctober, it was the scariest
f-ing decision that I had evermade.
I was scared shitless.
October, November and December,specifically were really scary.
Because as I was leaving a nineto five, if you will, a
consistent income and a companywhere I had generated a lot of.
(16:42):
Rapport and notoriety.
And I was a subject matterexpert and going off and doing
something on my own with noguarantees of anything.
And I really had to do that alot of work within myself.
I'm still doing it to this day.
Matter of fact, on, on mindsetand focusing on the now versus
looking all the way to Zed andunderstanding that.
(17:06):
I'm new at this, and I need togive myself permission.
I need to celebrate the smallwins.
And I and just celebrate period.
Like I think, we have a tendencyas entrepreneurs, or as business
owners to focus on everythingthat we need to fix versus The
one eating it and looking atthings that, Oh my God, I can't
believe I did this.
Or this is a new record that Ihave, or this is an, a client
success story that I'm just soproud of and it's meaningful.
(17:27):
And then in January I startedseeing a lot of my clients start
to get jobs.
And and I remember this oneclient who got a job and I just
was crying because I was just sohappy.
I was like, wow, this is, thisworking and I'm so fulfilled.
And and that kind of gave me themotivation to keep going.
But yeah, I'm what States I'llend in February.
(17:50):
So I'm five months in and it'sbeen a wild ride.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (17:53):
And that's awesome that, you've started
during a pandemic and but thingsare working out really well.
Obviously, you're like anybusiness you're learning as
you're going, but reallythrilled.
And you've got some incredible.
Incredible clients as well.
And you're on your list.
I think working with companieslike Pixar and Adobe and Amazon
as clients how, like reallyimpressive, like how did you do
(18:17):
that so quickly?
AJ Mizes (18:19):
So I'll, so those companies are both places that I
work with as in HR consulting.
And then also one of my clientsare working so my career
strategy or clients that areworking I would say it's a lot,
80% of my business so far hasbeen referrals.
So people who knew me and, knewsomeone who knew somebody and
knew that I was going off on myown.
So I think.
(18:40):
I think the biggest lesson thatI've learned is that you have to
scream from the rooftops aboutwhat you're doing and who you
can help.
And that's where I saw a lot of,their businesses fall short is
that they just weren't sayingenough of what they were doing
or who they were helping.
And it's, it was reallyuncomfortable for me because I'm
not one that like, I didn't,despite working at Facebook, I
(19:00):
wasn't really super duper activeon social media.
I didn't talk about myself toomuch unless I was like on
vacation or something.
And so moving from this phase ofusing social media for social
media, too.
Using it as a means to tellpeople what I was doing was
really uncomfortable.
And so I had to move to thisplace of being really
(19:21):
comfortable, putting myself outthere, being super-duper
vulnerable and then seeing whathappened.
And it turns out it's working.
I'm very grateful for mynetwork, but yeah, it's been a
ride.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (19:31):
You mentioned earlier about your
career ramp program and andyou've really been getting real
success and fulfillment gettingpeople hired essentially.
Without going into the innerdetails.
Is there any Kind of top tipsthat our listeners could start
to use from your experience,whether that's in your career
art program or just from yourown experience on how to
(19:54):
actually increase their chancesof landing a job in this kind
of, a lot of people would assumedifficult time during COVID.
AJ Mizes (20:05):
So one of the top things that are patterns that
I'm noticing with clients rightnow is interview technique and
how they're showing up tointerviews.
Typically, there's tons of freeresources out there that help
you with resumes and, yourLinkedIn profiles and all that
stuff.
And even then sometimes you needhelp and guidance.
And so that's its own bucket.
But interview technique is whereI'm seeing a lot of candidates
(20:26):
fall flat.
And one of my top tips in termsof interviewing is making sure
that when you are preparing tointerview, you are prepared to
answer three types of questionsand prepared, meaning that you
have actually written notes andpractice answering these
questions, not just.
Thought about it, but you'reactually putting pen to paper
(20:49):
and thinking about it.
So the three types of questionsare your exit statement.
So your exit statement is theanswer to why are you looking
for a new job right now?
You have to have a really wellrehearsed answer.
To that question in terms of, ifyou were laid off, how do you
tell that story?
If you were terminated, how youtell that story, if you're
currently working in looking tochange companies, how do you
(21:11):
tell that story?
And how has that tied back tothe opportunity?
So not just a personal selfishreason, but how do you tie that
back to the company that youwant to work for?
The second type of question thatI see people not prepare for is.
Your positioning statement.
Your positioning statement isthe answer to tell me about
yourself, which most peoplefear, but tell me about yourself
(21:35):
is actually an amazingopportunity to tell employers
who you are so that they don'tcome up with that for you.
So you, so how do you tellpeople who you are, the types of
companies that you've workedfor, the type of experiences
that you have in your top threeskills and strengths.
And then the third question thatyou need to have.
Answers for are the behavioralinterview questions, which are,
(21:56):
tell me about a time when, orwhat would you do if and having
a list or what I refer to as alibrary of those types of
stories so that you're able topick and choose depending on
what the question is.
And what I tell people is thatyou should have at least 5 to 10
of those stories in your backpocket.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (22:18):
Pretty solid tips.
I love it.
That's a kind of pretty awesomeglimpse into how some of your
programs are actually prettyeffective, to be honest.
Okay.
In terms of career change inparticular you mentioned earlier
that you have a client that'sgoing through that.
I think they worked in sales,you said, and they're looking to
get into.
Health and health and fitness.
(22:38):
How, do you advise clients toapproach career change?
Is there a kind of process youstarted to talk about the
process of actual speaking topeople in that sector and
uncovering ideas.
What are the kind of steps inthe process are important?
Do you think for someone that'slooking for career change?
AJ Mizes (23:01):
So it's important to talk about two things.
One is.
And then I feel like it's such acliche word, but one is mindset
or your approach, I would say.
And so mindset, meaningidentifying where you might have
been, paralyzed in terms ofmoving forward and why that has
prevented you from movingforward.
So really having honestconversations with you or with
your coach or with your mentoror whatever about what's
(23:23):
preventing you from taking astep.
forward And then I think it'sreally easy to get caught up in
a, to Z when really all you needto be thinking about is A to B.
And what I mean by that isthinking about, okay.
Instead of thinking about endgoal, that's great.
That's amazing to have an endgoal, but what does one step
closer to that end goal looklike?
(23:44):
Just one step and that way.
You're able just to chunk it upinto smaller steps and
accomplish things.
So for instance, when we weretalking about having
conversations with healthcoaches, right?
That's one step, that's just onestep further, and then we have
that step.
What is one step closer looklike?
What does one step closer tolook like?
So that would be my second pieceof advice.
And then the third piece ofadvice is even if you like,
(24:04):
you're in a role and you it'sjust not jiving, it's not making
your feet tingle.
When you wake up in the morning,there's lots of things that you
can do to identify.
A general direction or start tothink about other ideas.
So the first thing is to thinkabout where D where does time
get lost?
Where do you stop looking at theclock in your current job?
(24:25):
That is a really good clue as towhat you love doing another, and
this is one of my favoritethings to do with clients is to
go back and talk about whatyou'd love to doing as a kid.
What brought you joy?
What did you do with yourfriends?
What did you do when you weren'tdoing school or maybe it was
school, maybe that was somethingthat you love doing and seeing
how that.
Clue ties into what you get lostin doing now.
(24:48):
And so for instance I'll giveyou one of mine.
So I was a a big guy when I wasin my younger years.
So I loved performing on stageand singing and putting on
shows.
That's what I love doing and inmy job as let's just we'll take
my people HR leader role atFacebook, I loved putting
(25:08):
together.
Training programs, workshops lione of the things that I
developed at Facebook was thisthing called leader launch,
which was this whole thing wherewe bring managers through, and
it was in person training andonboarding and a whole bunch of
other cool stuff.
Speaking skills.
And that's where I got myselfless.
So if you look at the clue,being on stage, being in front
(25:29):
of people, putting on a program,very similar to what I loved
doing as a kid.
And that's really was thejumping off point for why I
decided I wanted to go do thisfull time because I wanted to be
more in that, play more in thatspace.
And and yeah, that's anotherthing that I recommend doing
too.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (25:45):
I love it.
Yeah.
I advise similar advice to myclients.
And also I've taken that adviceon myself as well in terms of
connecting the dots in the past.
And that there is.
If in the past you've let up indoing an activity, there's a
pattern in that activity thatyou can transfer into very
different areas of life, you'vedone it from acting to workshops
(26:07):
for leaders.
A lot of people would find that.
That hard to connect, butactually the essence of your,
the activity that you do and theprocess of it is very much
there.
So I totally get that.
Yeah.
A lot of people there, theymight be frustrated in their job
and actually kind of careerchange is not necessarily the.
The best solution before theyexplore other options.
(26:29):
When you think about people thatare.
Unhappy in their job, what stepscan they take within their own
organization that they're inright now to improve the
situation?
For example, how could theycommunicate this with their
employer?
How could they maybe exploreroutes within an organization
before actually, doing quitedramatic step of actually
(26:51):
leaving.
AJ Mizes (26:53):
So awesome that you asked that because sometimes
that is reality.
Sometimes we have to be in ourjobs for a little bit before we
can explore things outside ofbefore we get, get that
opportunity.
So th the first is.
Looking at your financialsituation.
So is it something that you can,could you, can, you, can you
afford to quit, maybe you can ormaybe you need to stay employed
(27:16):
to make it work.
So that's the very first thing,especially if things are super
duper toxic, where you are,right.
Maybe quitting is going toactually save you more in mental
spend then then you can reallytake if otherwise.
And then I think I have peoplethink about a couple of other
things.
So are there things that youcould volunteer or put your name
in the hat for, with yourcurrent supervisor, with your
(27:38):
coworkers or cross-functionalteams to help learn new skills?
So once you identify what youwant to do, are there things in
your current role where youcould start getting that
experience?
Now?
The second is what are thingsthat.
Do you that tend to like, holdyou, like identifying the things
that tend to hold you back.
So like difficulty accepting,constructive criticism or
(28:02):
discomfort, expressing yourselfor speaking up in meetings.
Are there things that you canstart to practice now in your
job that will serve you in yournext role?
The other things my third kindof tip would be, are there
things that you need from aneducation or from a like skill,
cert perspective that you mightbe able to do now while you're
(28:24):
getting a consistent paycheck toprepare you for that next move.
So is there a class you'vealways wanted to take, is there
a certification or is thereeducation reimbursement fund at
your current company that youhaven't taken advantage of?
Yeah, those would probably be mytop three tips there.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (28:39):
So a solid tips again.
So you mentioned like looking atyour financial situation of
course, and your mental healthas well, and evaluating, is it
really the right time to leave?
Looking at things that you canget experiencing now in your
current role?
What actually working out whatthings are actually holding you
back and working on them, from amindset perspective and from
practically, how can youimprove?
(28:59):
And then.
Training, training anddevelopment, like what areas,
going into your next role oryour business, like as you have
a paycheck, how can you up-skilland up-skill manage that
transition more smoothly.
Yeah.
In terms of career development,people that are for us, some
people are frustrated becausethey just can't quite get that
(29:20):
promotion.
And they don't know maybe somepeople think, Oh, my boss just
doesn't like me.
I'm never going to get apromotion.
What can people do?
And part of it is a mindsetthing.
Of course, part of it'scommunication.
What can.
What can people do to actuallyalleviate that issue if they
feel stuck in terms of wherethey are in a career level.
AJ Mizes (29:39):
Yeah.
So it's very cool common to havethis conundrum, if you will, or
to does this situation appearright in our lives.
So first, the first is torecognize you're not alone.
Th like this happens to all ofus.
And typically what I see isthere are a couple of reasons
why you may not be moving asfast as you want.
(30:00):
The first is.
Expectation setting between youand your manager.
And so oftentimes, especially,when I was in HR and HR not just
at Facebook, but anywhere.
I would ask people like theywould come to me and say, Hey,
Jay I want to get promoted.
And I'm doing all these things.
I just don't know where what I'mnot doing.
And so one of the firstquestions I would ask is when's
the last time you talked to yourmanager about this?
(30:22):
Oh, it's six months ago.
And that's a problem.
If you're only talking about it,twice a year, about your
progression on your.
Career journey.
Yes, not enough.
These stories, these should beregular conversations and shared
conversation between you andyour manager about what exists
in your current performance andwhat needs to exist in your
performance in order for you toget to the next level.
(30:43):
So whether that's a promotion ora title change, or a job change,
whatever, what have you, but itshould be crystal clear to your
manager about what you want outof your job.
And so the way that you makethis easy is to bucket your
growth into one of three things.
You either, and your careergrowth, you either want to be
promoted in your current role.
(31:03):
So maybe your, I don't know adata engineer and you want to be
a senior data engineer.
So you're staying as an IC, butjust moving to that next level.
The second bucket is to movefrom an IC to a people manager.
And when I say I see anindependent contributor to a
people manager andself-explanatory, and then the
third bucket is I actually wantto change jobs.
So I'm a data engineer and Iactually want to be in sales.
(31:26):
So when you can bucket yourcareer growth into one of those
three things, it makes it reallyeasy.
To then chart a course on whatthat looks like for your growth.
And sometimes we think aboutcareer growth, but I don't
really know what I want to do.
I, maybe I want to be peoplemanager.
Maybe I want to grow my career.
Maybe I want to change jobs, butif you can first put yourself in
one of those three buckets, thenyou can start charting a course
(31:47):
to what that looks like withyour manager, to have those
succinct conversations and thosedirect conversations with what
you want and have your managerbe your advocate.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (31:56):
Too.
Put these categories around yourcareer direction, like what
category is next for you?
And then starting to plan actionsteps around that, communicating
with your manager, maybe withyour team as well.
Like how do we make this happenin practice?
You're actually able to trackyour progress and see like what.
(32:17):
You're doing from that list ofthings that your manager said
you need to do in that bucket toto actually move forward and
have it have more of a chance ofpromotion rather than being in
the dark.
And actually saying, Oh, I'mnever going to get promoted.
Like my manager just hates me.
And I think a lot of people,they, maybe in kind of bigger
organizations like Facebook,there are.
(32:37):
Regular reviews from managers,smaller to midsize
organizations.
Sometimes that's not commonpractice to have regular
reviews.
How do you think people canapproach management to change
policy around that and actuallyget their career taken more
seriously, rather than justhaving to do their job and
making profits,
AJ Mizes (32:59):
Matt, I freaking love this question and I'm loving
this conversation.
I just want to say you're askinglike, Th there's things I love
talking about.
So the biggest piece of advicesomeone wants told me, and that
I tell everybody now is no oneshould care more about your
career than you do.
And so what that means is.
(33:20):
You as the person who wants togrow in your career, it need to
be the instigator to theseconversations.
You should not wait for yourmanager to ask you what do you
want next in your career?
Thinking about this.
No, you need to be the onetelling your manager what you
want.
And so in order to know what youwant, you need again, think
about those three buckets firstand think about what direction
you want and then have.
(33:41):
The plan to put time on yourmanager's calendar and say, Hey
manager, I'd love to spend, I'dlove to repurpose our next
one-on-one to talk about mycareer growth.
I have some ideas that I want toshare with you, and I'd love to
get your thoughts and that.
Puts the ball in their court.
You're going to go in there withyou with your thoughts and how
you want to grow.
And then it allows that personto one, receive what you're
(34:02):
saying, and then to help you puta plan together and what that
looks like.
And if you can take the reinsand start to drive the
conversation, you will get therefaster than people who just get
there because they're, theirmanager is looking out for them.
And there are those managers dothat.
Don't get me wrong.
There are managers who.
Are upfront and direct.
And having those comes andputting that maybe on their Drex
calendar, those are really greatmanagers, by the way, if you're
(34:25):
a manager that does that kudosto you but more often than not,
it doesn't happen.
And so you have to take chargeof your career.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (34:31):
And taking control is super important.
And and communicating with yourmanagers is important as well.
What, like at what point dopeople come to you for when
should people start consideringcareer?
Counseling career coaching tohelp their career.
What are the kind of typicalchallenges that you see with
(34:52):
some of the clients that, that,that come to you and that you
work with?
Now?
AJ Mizes (34:56):
People come to me with in one or two ways.
The first is if they'recurrently in a role, they're not
happy with what they're doingand they don't quite know what
it is, or maybe they have aninkling, but they don't know
exactly how to get there.
And they want soup to nuts,support everywhere from finding
what that dream job is all theway to landing that job,
(35:16):
negotiating the offer.
And then the second type ofperson that comes to me are
people who are, they knowexactly what they want, but
they're not getting anywhere.
So perhaps they're applying tojobs, not getting interviews
that are getting interviews andnot getting offers.
And they're starting to see apattern and they're not sure how
to break that pattern.
So they need someone to helpguide them to help tweak and fix
and coach things.
(35:37):
And the way that I explain thisis every great musician, every
great actor, every great sportsperson has a coach.
Every single every one of themthroughout their entire career.
And why don't we as workingprofessionals outside of that
entertainment and sports arenas,why don't we have coaches?
And so sometimes it's not a signof weakness to get a coach.
(35:58):
It's actually a sign ofstrength.
It's a sign of growth.
That's a sign of development.
Some of the greatest learningsI've ever had in my career have
been a result of coaching.
And so sometimes you just needsome help and someone to walk
side by side with you and to seethings from another lens.
And so if you're one of thosetwo buckets, that's typically
where I recommend calling acoach and getting some help.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (36:18):
For people that are maybe starting to do
remote work, now there's a lotof that, most, a lot of the
world is now doing that.
How do you how do you manageyour own teams or even con
communicate effectively duringthis kind of remote working
period?
It's tough for teams to do that.
And I know you work a lot withkind of team culture and
(36:41):
organizational development.
How can companies approach thisand how can individuals kind of
work better with these, I guessin inverted commerce constraints
of remote working,
AJ Mizes (36:53):
it's really tough out there right now.
There's a couple of things thatI'm seeing companies do really
well that contributes to havinga really strong culture as we're
moving through these times, I'dsay the first thing is that
they've adopted ways to touchbase with our team more
frequently.
And this doesn't mean that youneed to have team meetings every
(37:14):
single day.
But what I say is that you justhave to increase the proximity
that you're spending to yourteams.
And I'm talking specifically toleaders now.
So leaders need to increase theamount of times that they're
touching base with their team.
It could be through Slackmessage every day.
It could be through a stand-upmeeting.
It could be through increasedone-on-ones.
It could be, those lots ofdifferent ways to do it.
But just having more times tojust check in and see how things
(37:36):
are going on a human level.
And I'm not saying Oh, how'sthat project going?
Are you going to meet thatdeadline?
That's not what I mean.
But if you think about theoffice you're running into
people at the refrigerator,you're running into people in
the elevator, you're catching upon what you did that weekend.
You're catching up on howpeople's, how people are feeling
or you're sharing a funny joke,you have to replace that we're
human beings, we're socialcreatures.
(37:57):
And so if we're just expected tobe in this transactional
environment where we're, onvideos all day and just updating
people on what's happening inour work and not having those
social moments, you're going tosee a decrease in engagement and
in a decrease in happiness andyour team.
Creating those, the proximity issuper important.
And then I think Beingrespectful of the hardships that
(38:20):
come with working from home,especially those with small
children those that perhaps havedepression working from home and
not seeing people, there's likethe realities that come with
this reality that we're in.
And so I S in the beginning ofthe pandemic, we saw a lot of
people putting on happy hoursthat like five o'clock like
virtual zoom, happy hours, orteam dinners and things like
that.
(38:40):
And I just want you to just askyourself a question after being
on a zoom calls for eight hoursa day, do you really think that
people want to stay on.
Into the nighttime hours on morezoom calls, nine times out of
10.
It's probably a no right.
Exactly.
Agree with you on that.
(39:00):
Yeah.
And I get it the intent isawesome.
Like we want to spend timetogether.
We want we would have gone outto the bar and go to drinks, but
it's just not the same people.
And what I would say is, arethere things that you can do in
the working day?
That still have a break to thework that you're still providing
levity and fun.
And to the work that you do sothat you're not taking time away
from people who need that breakafter, five o'clock hits.
(39:23):
So how can you shift your teambuilding stuff to the middle of
the day versus the end?
Yeah.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (39:28):
Yeah.
I love it.
In terms of balance, There'sincreasing workloads for some
people and stresses buildingwith working from home.
Some people, as you said have tomanage like homeschooling and
families and that kind of stuff.
When you need, when you feellike you need more balance in
your life, because maybe there'sjust too much going on.
How do you communicate that withyour employer without Kind of
(39:51):
losing respect and kind ofchances of promotion.
Is there a way of doing that?
Or do you just do you just do itand just hope they don't notice?
AJ Mizes (40:01):
And I I know that there are companies out there.
In fact, my sister wasinterviewing at a company who
like was not.
Cognizant that there are peoplelike that.
There were people who had kidsat home and they needed to go
pick up their kids and leave andthey couldn't work, straight
eight to five, like they neededto be flexible and this company
was not flexible at all.
So she declined the offerbecause they were so terrible.
(40:23):
The advice that I would give isthat you absolutely want to be
upfront about what you need tobe supported.
This is, these are unprecedentedtimes.
This is the worst pandemic thatwe've ever had in.
Recent history.
And there are realities givenwhere we are socially in terms
of, schooling and technologythat allow us to keep working,
(40:44):
which is awesome, but that comeswith a trade-off.
And so I think it's unrealisticfor companies to think that
people are going to be operatingthe same way that they would pre
March, 2020.
Yes, you absolutely should beapproaching your manager and
talking about some agreementsthat you can make around what
you need to be successful inyour role.
So having a conversation, Mattsaid, say that you're a manager.
(41:04):
Hey Matt I just wanted to talkwith you a little bit about some
situations that I have going onwith my daughter.
She has to be in school at nineo'clock.
I can't make that eight 30meeting live, but I promise I'm
going to watch the recording.
I'll ask.
Joe to take some notes for me.
And then I do have to go pickher up at three o'clock, but I
am going to stay on until six sothat I can get all my work done
(41:25):
for the day is not going to be aproblem.
And then just have it, have aconversation to have a
negotiation between you and yourmanager.
You have a human thing.
And if your manager can'tunderstand some of those things
that are going on at home,there's probably a bigger.
Thing that's going on there interms of culture, in terms of
leadership that maybe you needmake a pivot.
But for the most part, myclients both on the company side
(41:47):
and on the career coaching side,they're working at companies
that really understand that itis an anomaly to find companies
that aren't okay.
And if it's not okay, it'sprobably, they're probably not
going to last very long, but I'm
Matt Garrow-Fisher (41:57):
being quite honest.
Yeah, no, that makes totalsense.
And I think from my experienceshaving empathy for, your
colleagues for your manager andputting yourself in their shoes
when you communicate and also.
Having a kind of a solutionfocused attitude and approach
when you actually explain yoursituation, like you said, if
you're not able to do thestandard hours and what you're
(42:20):
fulfilled to do in a contract,having some flexibility in
offering alternative solutionsand just.
Just showing your manager andyour team that actually, you do,
you are conscious about theirown demands, you've got
solutions for it.
And I think most of the timewe're human aren't we, and
people can understand, buttotally, if like your sister, if
(42:42):
they just don't have.
If their policy is no, you'vegot to work these hours and that
set and that doesn't fit withyour life and your values and
what you need what's mostimportant to you, which might be
your family, then it might notbe for you.
So totally get that.
Before I asked my last question,I J where can people find, you
get to know more about the humanreach and learn more about some
(43:04):
of the career coaching servicesand career set services that you
offer.
AJ Mizes (43:10):
Absolutely.
So if you are interested incareer amp, you can check out
www dot, find my dreamcareer.com and I offer a free.
Web class every Thursday it'slive that you can check out.
And I go into further detailabout career at my top three
tips about handling how to landa job without applying online.
And if you're interested inone-on-one private coaching,
(43:32):
both leadership, coaching, or HRconsulting you can check out WW
dot the human reach.com and findout more there.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (43:41):
Awesome.
I love it.
And I love that you're doingsome free classes for people to
get to know you more.
And, they've got to know you inthis interview and some pretty
awesome tips, like practicaltips to actually help with
career career search, careerchange all of that kind of
stuff.
I will include all of theselinks in the show notes as well.
Everyone so AAJ.
My final question.
(44:01):
Now I see, now I can, I'mlooking at you now.
You're smiling, you're quitepassionate about what you do.
Not many people would leaveFacebook to start something on
their own.
You've done it.
I'm guessing because you reallywant to serve people.
You have something valuable tooffer.
And there's a certain level ofpurpose, you said yourself that,
when you placed a candidateearly on and you were crying,
(44:24):
you genuinely were fulfilled.
So there's this level offulfillment.
There's a level of passion inwhat you do purpose.
And also, you, it seems like youhave a balance in life, you're
healthy and you're doing whatyou want to do.
Passion purpose and balance.
I call that to burn from withinwhat's the one thing AAJ that's
made the biggest difference foryou in your life to burn from
(44:45):
within.
AJ Mizes (44:48):
Ooh, that makes me kind of emotional thinking about
that's a really great question.
I think the biggest thing that'sprovided or that's inspired this
burning from within has been tohonor.
Honor risks and honor.
Risk-taking and I think.
I specifically in this lasttransition, moving from Facebook
(45:09):
to this there were quite a lotof risks that I was taking and I
needed to believe in myself.
I needed to also have thesupport of my spouse and
supportive by close friends andfamily to know that I had that
support.
And to just believe in yourselfand trust that, yeah.
If you are going into somethingwith great intentions and with
(45:31):
something that you're reallypassionate about you have to
try, if you don't try, thenyou're going to have regret.
And so regret to me was maybethat other thing I was thinking
about if I was six years old,sitting at a bar somewhere
someday, one of the biggestthings that I would have
regretted is not starting my owncompany.
And so taking this risk,eliminating that potential for
(45:55):
regret was more important to methan a security and safety.
And so that's has been a reallybig shift that has fueled this
fire.
I
Matt Garrow-Fisher (46:09):
absolutely love that answer, ADA.
Honestly, I do Cote totallyresonate with it myself.
And You talk about I go on manyepisodes, I talk about the top
five regrets of the dying andhow do you minimize regrets?
And one, one of the episodes Ihave actually I'll send it to
you is an episode called bigdecision, no regrets.
And I actually included quotesfrom Jeff basis and Steve jobs.
(46:31):
Jeff Bezos has a frameworkcalled regret minimization
theory.
And it basically, it's if you'regonna make this decision to
start your business, this isexactly the framework you use
for Amazon.
Would you, would he regretcasting himself forward to when
he was 80 and looking back andthinking, would I regret.
Not starting that business orwould I regret taking the, not
(46:52):
taking the safe option and whenthe answer is obvious to you in
your gut about that, then you'vejust got to go for it because,
where is your, where, how lowcan you go?
It doesn't work and then youmight go get unemployment
benefit and.
You might live at your friend'shouse on the couch for a bit,
and then you get another job andthat's it.
But to not even try, as yousaid, and actually take a risk
(47:15):
you're not going to regret that.
So I totally understand that andreally good advice actually that
you've particularly, I thinkit's important for everyone to
hear that in these times where.
People that feel like they can'ttake risk and you've taken a
quite big risks.
And it's paying off during thepandemic and going into this
area to have to have that advicefrom someone.
(47:37):
And also support is reallyimportant as well.
Having the right support fromyour family, from your friends
and your spouse from a coachreally makes all the difference.
Hey, Jay, this has been anawesome interview.
And thank you so much once againfor being on the show.
No,
AJ Mizes (47:50):
Matt, thank you for having me.
This has been super fun.
I've really enjoyed it.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (47:53):
AJ is the man.
I love that one thing to burnfrom within, for him of taking
risks in life to avoid regretlater is so powerful.
And so transformational havingthat mindset.
And I would absolutely encourageyou to listen back to another
episode of this podcast.
If you haven't already calledbig decision.
(48:15):
No regrets, which shares clipsof past guests as well as Steve
jobs and Jeff Bezos.
In how they made decisions thatled to no regrets and a new
career and life path.
I also encourage you to checkout AJS next free web class.
You can register for it bysimply going to find my dream
(48:37):
career.com.
That's fine.
My dream career.com.
And if you enjoy this episode,go right ahead and leave a
review for this podcast.
By going to rate thispodcast.com forward slash burn
from within that's rate, thispodcast.com forward slash Ben
from within.
And stay updated with moreinspiring interviews by hitting
(48:57):
the subscribe button now on yourplayer until next time live with
passion purpose and balance andburned from within
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