The Evolution of Endurance Sports with Ironman Legend Kurt Madden

Imagine standing on the start line of your very first Ironman and the 3rd in history in Oahu in 1980—no high-tech gear, no fancy nutrition plans, just raw endurance and a relentless drive to push human limits. Now, fast forward 44 years, and that same athlete has just completed his 50th Ironman in Kona in 2024. Kurt Madden—also known as Coach K or Mad Dog—is an endurance sports pioneer, a champion ultraman, and a world-class triathlon coach. In this episode, we dive deep into his journey: what led him to that historic start line in 1980, the lessons learned from five decades in endurance sports, and the business and life principles he’s extracted along the way. We’ll explore what it takes to endure—both as an athlete and as a coach—why he is devoted to helping others achieve their peak performance, and how AI is about to change the future of coaching. Whether you’re an aspiring triathlete, a business leader, or someone looking for the mindset to go further, this episode will inspire you to redefine your own limits.

Highlights:
 - Kurt's Journey to His First Ironman
 - The Challenges of the First Ironman
 - The Evolution of Ironman and Kona
 - Racing in Kona: A Special Experience
 - The Meaning of Ohana on a Race Day
 - Lessons from The Ultraman: A 100-Mile Run
 - The Hard Rock Race Experience
 - Leadville and the Taharamar Indians
 - Coaching Influences and Personal Growth
 - TriDot and AI in Training vs a Coach
 - Reflections on Kona and World Championships

Links:
Connect with Kurt Madden through Instagram.

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Episode Transcript

Kurt Madden (00:06):
If you let me get into your hearts, I will get
into your head.

Charlie Reading (00:13):
Imagine standing on the start line of
your very first Ironman andactually the third Ironman in
history back in Oahu in 1980.
No high-tech gear, no fancynutrition plans, just raw
endurance and a relentless driveto push human limits.
Now fast forward 44 years andthat same athlete has just

(00:36):
completed his 50th Ironman inKona in 2024.
Kurt Madden, also known asCoach K or Mad Dog, is an
endurance sports pioneer, achampion Ultraman and a
world-class triathlon coach.
In this episode, we dive deepinto his journey what led him to
that historic start line in1980, the lessons learned from

(00:57):
five decades in endurance sport,and the business and life
principles he's extracted alongthe way.
We'll explore what it takes toendure both as an athlete and as
a coach, why he's devoted tohelping others achieve their
peak performance, and how AI isabout to change the future of
coaching and business forever.

(01:18):
Whether you're an aspiringtriathlete, a business leader or
someone looking for mindset togo further, this episode will
inspire you to redefine your ownlimits.
So I know you're going toabsolutely love this
conversation with Kurt Madden.
So, kurt, welcome to theBusiness of Endurance podcast.

(01:42):
I am so looking.
Welcome to the business ofendurance podcast.
I am so looking forward tochatting to you, so looking
forward to this conversation.
I know the last time we met inperson it was in the wonderful
kona on the beach there justkind of getting ready for the
race, and just what an amazingtime that was.
But I'd like to go right backto start this conversation.

(02:02):
I'd really like to go rightback because kona was your 50th
Ironman, which shows you kind ofgot the most amazing history in
this sport, and I believe yourfirst Ironman was 1980 and it
was the last Ironman in Oahu.
So tell us about how did youfind yourself on the start line
of an Ironman back in 1980?

(02:23):
What got you there and what wasit like?

Kurt Madden (02:26):
Yeah, well, first of all, Charlie, it's just so
awesome to join you and yourlisteners and I'm just honored
anytime I can jump across thepond and kind of hang out and
have some tea.
I think that's fantastic.
So you know, when I look backon my life it's, I think I was
literally at the right place atthe right time.
And I was a wild, young21-year-old living on the beach,

(02:46):
figuring, hey, they have thiscompetition every year.
That's a half a mile swim, it'sa five and a half mile run and
a half mile swim.
And being young, wild and free,I figured what the heck, you
know, I can do.
That.
Little did I realize I wasgoing to get my rear end handed
to me.
So I paid my money and I jumpedin and out of 400 people I was
like 30th and a light went offin my young mind to say, you

(03:09):
know what if I trained?
What a concept.
And the next year I didn'ttrain, like I train now, but I
actually went out and I swam andI ran down the beach a couple
of times.
And then I was third and I said,oh my goodness, I think maybe
genetically or whatever, I thinkI can do this and kind of
compete at a high level.
So the race director came overto me, his name was Tom Warren

(03:30):
and Tom had won the 1970 Ironmanand he actually pulled
something out for listeners,called a newspaper, and he
showed me the newspaper article.
He actually pulled up SportsIllustrated, which back in the
day that was the magazine, justnot the swimsuit issue.
But anytime you get your handson Sports Illustrated he was on
the cover of it and he leanedover and he was looking at me

(03:51):
and he says you know, you canswim, you can run, just go get a
bike.
And that's all he had to say.
And I ran home literally and Itold my wife and I've been
married a year and so I think Iinvented in a wife.
The company was called theWindsor and I don't know if they
had that in the UK, but thisbike must have weighed at least
20 kilos.
It was huge and I just got outand every day I swam and I bike

(04:13):
and I ran and before I knew itI'm on an airplane and I'm
heading over to Oahu and littledid I realize that I'm there.
And the only problem they hadjust the day before the race
when it was on Oahu, is a bigstorm had come through and the
waves were probably six to sevenmeters high.
Well, even back then they hadenough sense to say we want

(04:33):
people to maybe finish thisevent.
So they moved over to AlamoanaHarbor, which they just put up a
lane line and it was a thousandyards four times.
Pretty straightforward.
Your crew was going to followyou, you went all the way around
the island and your crew wouldplay leapfrog and catch up, and
then they gave you a map to sayjust run the honolulu marathon.
Real simple.
Now you would have loved thepre-race meeting because they

(04:56):
said welcome everyone, we have99 people, you paid your 20 and
it's going to be reallyenjoyable.
We're going to do this,hopefully in one day, and the
rules are real simple Don'tcheat Now.
Do you have any questions?
And we were like oh my goodness.
So Dave Scott was there, we hadDiana Nye there and a program
called back in the day calledABC Wild Riddles Sports and Jim

(05:18):
Lampley, another announcer.
And you know, all of a sudden,boom, the sun came up.
Then the event started, feltreal good on the swim, not a
problem at all Hopped on thebike and went around and it was
an open course, so we had tokind of get through traffic and
just kind of, you know, getalong.
And then I was in a trafficsection on mile 110, two miles
to the finish.
I flatted and, due to thetraffic and not having repair

(05:47):
kits, I literally just wrote itin on the rim, hopped off the
bike, changed my outfit, Ipulled out this map and you can
imagine you're trying to followa map in Honolulu, in Hawaii.
These words are so long thatit's hard to even pronounce them
and I literally got lost.
So I looked at one of the localswho was smoking something that
maybe in some parts of our worldis legal today, and the smoke
was coming off him and I said,hey, brah, where do I go?

(06:09):
And he looked and he said yougo that way.
And I said, hey, thank you,hang loose.
And I took off and so Icontinued to run and before I
knew it I was moving up, andmoving up, and moving up, and
there was that moral dilemma atabout mile 15 that Tom Warren
was directly ahead of me, inthat moral dilemma at about mile
15 that Tom Warren was directlyahead of me.
In the meantime my wife was in acar yelling and screaming go to
the whip.

(06:29):
And I'm thinking, wait a minute, he invited me to the race.
He's like my mentor and will heforgive me if I pass him, or
should I just sit back?
But in the moment I made thedecision to go by him.
So I finished six in that event, just over 11 hours, with a
road bike.
Dave won and I think Dave waslike 940-ish and I thought
honestly that event would neverhappen.

(06:50):
And for our older listeners, weactually wore something back
then called dolphin shorts.
Now for our people today theywouldn't know what I'm talking
about, but those were the shortswe wore.
But I honestly thought that wasbefore the internet, it was
like a Woodstock festival.
This will never happen.
And little did I realize thatevent continued to go.
And it's so neat because justtwo years ago, bob Babbitt, we

(07:12):
had an event with the class of1980, the people that actually
finished that event and therewas about 15 of us together.
But to go back in time and seewhere we are today.
So that's how I kind of gotstarted in 1980.

Charlie Reading (07:23):
Sounds like.
I mean, it's such a an amazingera for the sport and I remember
Bob Babbitt telling us thestory of his first time.
Was that the same year or washe the year before?

Kurt Madden (07:33):
Oh no, I met actually Bob Babbitt on a bus,
because what they did is theyrented a.
I mean, it's kind of cute.
They rented a bus and saidwe're going to take you all the
way around Oahu.
So Bob was literally sittingright next to us.
So we became besties on the busand here we are today living in
San Diego.

Charlie Reading (07:53):
We live 15 miles apart and we hang out with
each other and we see eachother all the time.
Oh, what an amazing communitythat that kind of has has
created.
What was for those that don'tknow, and I kind of think I know
, but what was the reason thatit ended?
That was the last year it wason Oahu and it moved to Kona
thereafter.

Kurt Madden (08:07):
Well, based on what I know, it was really put on by
a company called Nautilus andthe race director, valerie Silk,
I think she saw the popularityand so you can imagine Oahu is a
high dense area with trafficand if you're going to have an
event it wouldn't just go wellthere and you're not going to be
able to get permits to shutdown Oahu.
Now, the Big Island a little bitdifferent, because it is

(08:29):
actually more spread out andagain, you've been to Kona and
know that logistically it's muchbetter to try that.
So they moved that over rightafter that year.
But what some people don'trealize is back then we didn't
have a cutoff of, say, 17-ishhours and there was one person
that actually started the eventat 7 o'clock in the morning.
He somehow got through the swimdog paddling, he got on his

(08:52):
bike, he was doing the marathonbut he stopped at Denny's at
like 2 o'clock in the morning toget some coffee and some
pancakes and some waffles, gotback out there and he finished
the event at 7 in the morning.
He literally finished justbefore we started the award
ceremony.

Charlie Reading (09:11):
So after that they said again we can't do that
, we've got to have a time cutoff.
Wow, and at what point in theIronman's journey did you have
to qualify to race Kona?

Kurt Madden (09:16):
You know that is a great question.
I'm probably not the bestperson to ask, because I raced
as a pro for five years.
I stepped away for a while, dida lot of trail running,
supporting my family, being abetter husband, better dad, got
into education.
I came back in 2015.
At that time, if my memoryserves me correct, I'm not sure

(09:39):
if you had to qualify, but thenshortly after you did have to
qualify, so probably again I'dhave to go back and look.

Charlie Reading (09:45):
So I, I'm gonna , I'm gonna, pause on that so,
so obviously, when we were backthere october last year racing
kona it was my first kona itlike totally blew me away.
You know, and I think what trywe'll come back to try it out,
but what try not created therefor their athletes was
unbelievable.
It was such a brilliant lead upto to was an amazing race and
an amazing week.

(10:05):
But going back to Kona to raceyour 50th Ironman must have been
quite special.
What number Kona was that foryou?
And tell us about what wasracing your 50th Ironman in Kona
like?

Kurt Madden (10:17):
Yeah, that was my 11th time in Kona and I think
for me it was literally surreal,because I think there's a
certain mystique and a certaindraw to going to Kona and I
think for me it was literallysurreal because I think there's
a certain mistake and a certaindraw to going to Kona and then
being able to adapt to thechanges of the sport.
The course pretty much hasstayed the same, but it's being

(10:38):
able to continue to strive formastery.
And we often say that Kona islike the Mount Everest.
You know if the weather isclear and there's sun or no wind
, it's probably going to be abetter day.
However, I have learned withdoing all of my racing over
there meeting with the IronmanWorld Championship and then the
Ultraman that I've gone around,you know, the big island in a

(10:58):
three-day stage race.
I've done that four times.
So I know that islandintimately that the weather can
change literally within 30minutes.
So you need to really have thatair sense, kind of like a
helicopter pilot, of knowing,hey, what's going to come your
way, and I think that's whatkeeps you really humble.
So for me it was, I think, justlike any year.
It's amazing how much anyathlete commits to Kona,

(11:21):
including you, and I know.
For me it was a daily visual ofwhat it's going to be like to
swim again, to bike again, torun again, knowing my goals were
different than when I was a pro, but just being there, and I
think what made it real specialfor me, as I was, there was six
athletes, and then I was therewith Tridot.
So when we talk about Ohana,that there was so much Ohana

(11:41):
that we had the Ohana from theevent.
The only thing that was missing, though, was our girls, and I
do miss our girls.
I want to say that I want toplug in for that, because that's
how the sport kind of started.
But but, looking at that, so mypreparation was good.
I worked with all my athletes.
Each one was doing things alittle bit differently, but we
know again, we're going to talka little bit about triedidot but

(12:02):
things were somewhat similar.
So, for me, getting there 10 to12 days before that is to me
gold, because you're immediatelyadapting to the weather, your
body clock is getting in sync.
You're getting down to the pierevery day just to go ahead and
swim.
You're getting out on the bikecourse and you're going up the
Javi a couple times You're goingthrough the lava fields just to
kind of see how that is, andthen you're going out to the

(12:23):
energy lab and saying, okay,this is like the gladiator, I
want to smell the dirt, I wantto taste the dirt, but it's lava
.
And lava can be very humblingbecause, you know, the unique
thing about Kona is that you'vegot heat, you've got wind,
you've got humidity, but theequalizer is the lava.
And you can't simulate thatwherever you train, because I

(12:43):
work with people throughout theworld that are telling me coach,
I've got it, I've got.
You know I can turn the heat up.
You know I live in an areathat's a little bit warm.
You know you don't have, youdon't have lava.
So I think all that preparationwas really, really important.
And then checking with my teamto make sure, and again, the
tryout events were off thecharts.
It just it grabs your heart, itgrabs your soul and but then

(13:05):
again, knowing on race day, whatI like is the last 30 seconds,
it's like you can just feel yourheart in your head just doing
this.
So at that point you know, onceyou hear that cannon go off,
there's literally no turningback.

Charlie Reading (13:19):
You've mentioned the word Ahana and I
want for lots of listeners thatdon't know what that means, but
I want to ask you what thatmeans in general and then, what
does that mean to you?

Kurt Madden (13:29):
And there's probably various ways to
interpret Ohana, but I thinkthat, respectfully, I live on
the West coast but I travelthere and as I go there two
times a year for the past 30 or40 years, I've really embraced a
lot of people over there and alot of stakeholders.
So when I think of Ohana, it'sreally thinking of family, and
family means we do it alltogether with everyone there,

(13:51):
and it's that love and thatunconditional hey, we're going
to get you to wherever you needto go and we're going to offer
you support and guidance andempathy and everything that we
need and make it very holisticand it's kind of like a cultural
thing.
But I think when you'reexperienced in Ohana, you know
it for sure.
It's kind of like when you walkinto a restaurant, you walk
into a pub, you know you walkinto a store, you walk into

(14:13):
someone's home, you can feelthat culture and I know for me
that Ohana is just really reallykey because it gives you
strength, it gives you energy,it gives you assurance and I
think at the end of the day,especially to Charlie you know I
don't want to jump forward tothe race, but you know how
invaluable it is to get throughthose aid stations when you're
just feeling the love, You'refeeling it and that's what.

(14:35):
It just pumps up your tires alittle bit more and that'll get
you to the next, and that'll getyou to the next, and that'll
get you to the next.
And they're out there becausetheir number one thing is
they're volunteering.
And when they volunteer likethat even Ferdino was out there
and I'm like whoa, is that class?
That is class.
You know, it's really class.
And I think too, just knowingthat we're put on this earth one

(14:56):
point in time, we're going tolive a certain amount of years,
but to be a good person.
So when I think of Ohana, it'smaking sure you honor that.
It's that underwritten rulethat we should always have in
all of our races.

Charlie Reading (15:06):
But I think when you're in kona, that it
really captures up yeah, it wasabsolutely beautiful and, and
yes, getting getting a pat onthe back by yamfridino and
handed a drink as you go uppalani, just like right.
Okay, I've got to get.
I'm on this again.
Even if I wasn't on it, it wasit brilliant.
And tell us about the race.
So, how did the race go for you?

(15:27):
I think you had.
I also had an intimateexperience with the jellyfish.
How did that whole day pan outfor you?
And also, to give peoplecontext, remind me what age
category you're in, becauseobviously, if this is your 50th,
you've done a few.

Kurt Madden (15:41):
Yeah, well, to start off, in the U?
S we have something calledMedicare and that provides
health services.
So I am in the 65 to 69 agegroup and you know, I know my
competitors and there's always areal positive vibe and they
always bring out the best in meand hopefully I spur them on to
bring out the best in them onrace day.
So you know, when I, when Iswam out to the starting line I

(16:04):
had been there for two weeks,like I said, and I I know the
vibe and I know the water and Iwas like I'm ready to go I felt
that inner confidence.
I didn't have to say it, I it'san athlete knows when they're
on, just like you, you, you know.
And so, anyway, I'm on thestarting line, boom, the gun
goes off and our group took offand I went right off the front.
I was really near the frontswimming well, and I think five

(16:25):
minutes into it, all of a suddenI collided with a jellyfish and
it was amazing because itliterally hit me in the forehead
.
I got hit on my arms and it'sthat feeling of I know what just
happened.
What do I do?
Don't panic, just keep a rhythm, keep a tempo.
But it was just that, it wasjust like we say, and keep a
tempo.
But it was just that.
It was just like we say, kindof getting T-bonus, like wow,

(16:45):
that was not on my radar.
I didn't have my sea collar onbecause my head just got thrown
back and it was just like tryingto assess where I was.
So when I got out of the swim Ifelt relatively good, I think,
of my time.
If I look at my predicted time,I was maybe two minutes off,
which I know in that course Idon't sweat it because you've
got a long day in front of you.
So I felt good.
But all of a sudden there was,you know, the spray and the

(17:06):
vinegar and I'm like, wait aminute, there was no heads up
going into that.
Not that we could haveprevented the jellyfish, I don't
think they could have gottenthem all off the swimming course
.
But then you're reacting.
And it's so different for ourlisteners that in my travels if
you do get sunk by a jellyfishand you're not competing, it's a
little bit easier becauseyou're probably going to sit
down, you're going to have alifeguard there, you're not

(17:27):
going to panic.
They'll spray it on you.
Sit back and relax versus I'min T1.
I'm like I can't deal with thatright now.
I've just got to do that.
But I could just sense I wasnot in a good place.
But the main thing was to get onthe bike.
So I got on the bike and everytime that I would pour water in
my head or on my arms I justwent numb.
It felt like kind of a hot ironand I knew that wasn't good.

(17:48):
But I wanted to make sure,cognitively, that I was okay and
just I had to follow my plan.
So you know, the bike coursewas kind of uneventful.
It could have been.
And again, I think I've gotcontext.
Some people they always talkabout the wind in Kona.
I would say if I look at all ofmy races there, it was not a
super windy day.
I think it was very forgiving.
But I know, as I was riding outI was near the, you know, the

(18:09):
Monolani and all of a sudden Isaw Layla go by and I'm like
whoa, what just happened?
He is already coming back andwhere's everyone else?
But the climb to Javi it wasfine.
Coming back down there was alittle bit of wind, but I think
I stayed within myself and Icame off the bike give or take
right around six hours.
So for me and my age group Ididn't have to overbike it.

(18:32):
I looked at my power, I lookedat my heart rate.
I'm like check the box.
But as soon as I got off thebike I'm like wait a minute, I
am not in a good space mentally,physically, spiritually, and,
as you know, that's when realitysinks in.
It's like, oh my gosh, I'm notgoing at 30 kilometers anymore
on the bike.
You know the wind isn't goingby.
I'm now running in that lavaand the heat.

(18:58):
I knew within the first coupleof minutes and I've learned in
this race, you've just got toget through the first 10 or 15
minutes.
But I know that when I came upto that first aid station, I was
going I think this is going tobe a pretty challenging day and
I was consuming.
I was actually carrying a handbottle.
I was consuming, you know,probably 12 to 14 ounces every
aid station.
And then I was taking an ice,because I know in Kona ice is

(19:18):
your best friend, and I went toCoke almost immediately, which I
usually don't do.
That but the you know, theMorton for me, the mortal for me
, was probably not my bestchoice when I knew that what was
offering there.
I probably felt my best atabout 10K.
But when I saw the Tridot groupI let them know this is going
to get really rough and it'skind of hard to define what the

(19:39):
issue was.
Was it the allergic reaction?
Did I over bike?
You know I wasn't cramping.
But that energy, that rhythm,that tempo, because I know that
typically, if I can get upPolani and then get out on the
Queen K, that that rhythm comesback.
And on this day it's reallyfrustrating as an athlete.
It's like being in a card gameor a really high end poker game
and it's like these are thecards I'm playing with.

(20:01):
I'm not going to put much onthe table, so it's.
It's kind of like you know,I've just got to hang in there
and always hoping for a brightspot, like something might
happen where I can reestablishthat rhythm.
So it was a run, it was a walk,it was a shuffle, but literally
when I got to mile 16, one of myathletes came up to me who is
is really his.
His run is probably in therange of three 30, but he was

(20:27):
dealing with the hip injury.
He came alongside me and says,coach, you and I are going to
run the last 10 miles.
And I'm like what I said you'relike a Tesla, I'm like a Model
T.
Right now I've got no motor,I've got nothing.
He goes, oh no, we're going togo through the last 10 miles
together.
And I said, whoa, talk aboutyou know, giving a heart to his
coach.
We literally ran, weshuffleduffled, we did the best

(20:47):
we could the last 10 miles.
And I saw mckeely jones, youknow, with maybe you know three
kilometers to go, and I, lastlittle uphill, she's yelling at
me, coach k, with her australianaccent, giddy up, giddy up.
And I said, mckeely, this horse, there's not, there's not,
we're not horsepower today, it'snot going to happen.
But I think, coming down thatlast 100 yards to say what is
going to happen, I'm with one ofmy athletes.
This is my 50th Ironmandistance.
I'm in Kona.

(21:07):
Oh my gosh.
You know, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if you're
first, if you're in the middleor if you're the last person.
The main thing is that you'vegot up to the mountaintop with
Mount Everest and you came saidthere because.

Charlie Reading (21:24):
So I got a jellyfish sting, thankfully not
on my face, and also it was atthe end of the swim, because,
having had a really badjellyfish sting in Mauritius a
few years ago and I literallywas sound, I did get almost
straight out and I had sweatpouring off me for about an hour
, like to the point where wealmost called an ambulance.
So if I had that jellyfish atthe start of the swim, I think

(21:50):
I'd have been a lot more worriedabout swimming out into the
middle of nowhere and in fact mydaughters but both my daughters
were on the surfboards out onthe, so that might have been the
only thing that kept me going,actually, but but it's
interesting.
So I felt good on the bike.
I, like you, I cycled withinall of what tridot told me and I
got off the bike feeling goodand for the first mile I felt
good of the run and then,literally mile two, it went.

(22:11):
It was like everything drainedout the soles of my feet and I
just couldn't, and and I could.
Afterwards I couldn't work outwhether it was the heat or as
the jellyfish, or as acombination, because I'd fueled
exactly as I wanted, I'dhydrated exactly as I wanted,
and it just never happened.
And so hearing you say that isis really interesting.
And funnily enough, I was inthe energy lab dying on my arse

(22:32):
and I got chatting to anotherBritish guy also called Charlie,
and we did, we did about eightmiles together and unfortunately
I left him in a port-a-lootowards the end, but it was.
It absolutely saved me.
So it was it absolutely savedme.
So it was like it's amazing,what I mean?
It's just incredible.
But it also listening to youtalk about that answers a few
questions.
And I chatted to somebodyafterwards and he said he had a

(22:54):
antihistamine tablet on his bikebento box because he knew there
was a risk of jellyfish, whichobviously I would do the next
time I go to kona.
Is there anything else learning, having learned what you
learned from that experience?
Is there anything other thanantihistamine that you would do
differently now, with thatlesson within you?

Kurt Madden (23:12):
you know, as I've really reflected on that, I've
had a lot of think time to saywhat would I do differently?
And I think, again, it was justan unfortunate situation.
The antihistamine really reallysounds well, but I think safety
is is the most important thing.
Time to say what would I dodifferently?
And I think, again, it was justan unfortunate situation.
The antihistamine really reallysounds well, but I think safety
is the most important thing,because that's something beyond
your control.
I think again, when you're inthe heat of the battle, you're
not really aware of what's goingon.

(23:33):
You're just thinking about youand it's easy to get down on
yourself, like I am.
I'm not having the race, I wantto, I've really prepared, I've
done the heavy lifting and I'msuper frustrated and you kind of
get that self-doubt and thatnegative energy in your head.
So you get the villains talkingrather than your superheroes.
But once you finish it, it'sreally clear.
It's like, oh my gosh, it justwasn't me.
And then you start to hearabout the pros.

(23:54):
But see, when you're out there,you don't have a lot of intel.
You don't have, like, like, anearbud on, like they're telling
you all the time this is what'sgoing on, or even going into the
swim.
In other words, if they wouldhave said hey guys, I just want
to give you a heads up beforeyou start.
Get ready, there's a lot ofjellyfish and you know it as
well.
Dude Charlie, you can't swimfast and dodge jellyfish all the
time it's.

(24:29):
I think the antihistamine isgood, but I think that
experience for me as a coach andan athlete, it's better
prepared me to say if and whenit does happen, do your best to
kind of mitigate your losses,but do your best to continue on
and don't put yourself in harm'sway, because every person has a
wide variety of a response tosome people like God, you really
did well, despite the otherpeople like you had a terrible
race and I'm like okay, Iappreciate your feedback and
again, I wish you would havebeen with me because maybe we
could have done it together andthen we could have kind of
compared notes.
But it's comforting for me toshare that.
You know it was very similarfor you and then I saw some of

(24:50):
the pros that just literallystopped.
They couldn't go any further.
So it is what it is, but Ithink, again, we know that it's
considered maybe an extremeevent and that can happen almost
anywhere.
Something might happen duringthe event that you just have to
manage, but at the end of theday, it teaches you about grit,
perseverance, and you know whatWe've got to keep moving on, no
matter what in life.

Charlie Reading (25:10):
I also had a pod of dolphins swim under me on
the race swim and afterwards.
If you'd offered me, you couldhave the dolphins and the
jellyfish, or neither, whichwould you do, and I like I take
both, although now hearing yousay how much it impacted your
run, I'm not quite sure thatwould have been the right answer
.
But I mean just an absolutelyamazing experience.
We, we spent a bit of timeexploring big island afterwards

(25:33):
and I actually I'm going to comeback to your statement around
bring the girls back to to race,because I agree with that, but
we spent a bit of time exploringthe Big Island, which is an
amazing place.
So obviously you raced thefirst Ultraman and won the first
Ultraman and went back andraced it multiple times.
For those people that don'tknow what that is compared to an

(25:55):
Ironman, explain what that isand explain how different an
experience that is to racing inIronman.

Kurt Madden (26:02):
Yeah, and to give a little context for our
listeners, that as we've gonefrom 1980 in Oahu, now we're on
the big Island.
That we're on the big Islandand again, it was kind of like a
John Collins when he sat downwith a few people in a pub and
you know Waikiki, and he got outa napkin and said, hey, we can
do the Waikiki swim, and we gotthe bike ride and the marathon,

(26:23):
so we'll do that.
And then you're an Ironman, youcan brag for the rest of your
life.
Well, in 1982, it was almostthe same thing we had a couple
of people sit down it was thesame context a couple of beers.
They started talking a littlebit.
Let's take this thing all theway around the island and what
it'll be is a three-day race.
First day is a 10k swim andthen we'll bike to the other
side of the island, about 90miles.

(26:43):
Day two, we'll go 175 miles andwe'll go all the way from you
know volcano all the way up tojavi.
And then, third day, to put alittle love and a little spice
for dessert, we'll have you runthe double marathon from javi
all the way back to kona.
So at that time, as a pro.
I was really objective.
I mean, my best finish was six.
But Dave Scott, you know, timLee, mark Allen, I'm like.

(27:06):
I'm like second tier.
I know that I'm not going tobeat those guys.
They just, they were justbetter.
However, with this one, I don'tthink anyone's going to buy it
on this one.
So it was a chance for me, as apro, to find my niche, to break
away a little bit, to say I'lljust kind of outlast them in
three days, so I literallyjumped into that first race.
I was very fortunate, though,because I had locals that knew
that island intimately and theywere my crew.

(27:29):
So the strategy was real simple.
It was just go off the frontand have people chase me,
because I'm a strong swimmer.
So that's what I did, and Ijust went off the front and I
came out like and you know the10k swim, I think I came out
like a 220, got a commandinglead at the end of the first day
, push that lead to the secondday, started the third day in
javi, and again it was a smallerfield, but I think I had like

(27:52):
an hour and a half lead.
So it gave me some peace ofmind, like unless I really blow
up, I'm gonna be fine, I've justgot to keep moving.
So I think that first year mysplit for the double marathon I
think I went.
I think I went like 7-11, butthen I came back in 1985 and I
think my best run there was 6-42.
Keep in mind I had a lot ofgood tailwind, but it was very

(28:14):
comforting for me to get to thehalfway point, which you know
very right there by the Monolaniand they told me my split at
319.
And I go whoa, thank you.
Hey, you gave me all thattailwind.
I'll never run a 319 again.
And I went ahead and finishedbecause you know, in that event,
it's just amazing what youlearn about yourself when you're
running from Javi back to Kona.

(28:36):
Now, we did the bike.
So when I'm in, when I'm in theworld championship, charlie,
I'll just tell you one of mytips and tricks Don't complain
at all, cause if I start tocomplain, I'm telling myself
I've run this four times and Isurvived and I still know my
first name.
So suck it up a little bit.
Feel the love, headwind,crosswind, it doesn't matter,
you just have to get there.

(28:57):
So in that event, it's justgotten legs.
I went back in 2013.
I think I was eighth in 2019.
I went back again, I wasinducted to the Ultraman Hall of
Fame and I was eighth again asthe oldest competitor.
So and that's got legs.
So the Ultraman now isliterally all over the world.

Charlie Reading (29:13):
It's an incredible event and it's
definitely one for my bucketlist.
Unfortunately, by doing theseinterviews, claire and I's race
bucket list and experiencebucket list just expands faster
than we've got any chance of,but it's got to be one.
On that, it's yeah.
Have you coached people throughan Ultraman as well?

Kurt Madden (29:31):
Yes, I have.
I've coached people through theUltraman in Arizona, I've
coached people through theUltraman in Florida and I think
that is really shows me theflexibility of our tried-out
platform, how you can do that,and I know that I've used that
in other events like Norseman,to work with people that want to
do the ultra distance.
But I think there's a couplethings on that as I wrap it up

(29:52):
on the Ultraman.
The nice thing about theUltraman is it's very small.
It's about 30 people.
The course is open, open soyour crew leapfrogs just like we
did in 1980 over on oahu.
But it really bonds you as agroup because you can feel the
ohana, the crews help each otherout, you are going to be
competitive.
But it's one of the races whereyou can start it and stop it

(30:12):
three times and for some peoplethey don't want that.
They want like a hundred meterrun.
Like I get in the startingblocks, I put my head down, I, I
hear the gun and I go, oh, youget to start and stop three days
.
So a lot can and will happen.
But it's that wake up call onday three like, oh, my goodness,
I from the, from the neck down,I can't feel a thing and I'm
going to run 52 miles.

(30:32):
And it's amazing because, justlike anything, and it really
inspires you to say, when youlook at the body types of
everyone in the Ultraman,they're not like you know,
they're going to be bodybuildersor something like that, and
again, they're not going to beon the cover of Sports
Illustrated, but they've got agood mind, they've got a good
spirit, they've got a good crew.
So I want to encourage everyonetake the gifts you have,
surround yourself with goodpeople, have that positive

(30:54):
growth mindset and take it toanything you do in life sports,
athletics, profession, anythingamazing, amazing.

Charlie Reading (31:03):
So much good advice in there.
So when you, you had a spell, Ithink well, after you left,
after you finished being a pro,where you went into ultra
running, didn't you?
We've had some amazing ultrarunners on here.
One of the books, in fact thebook that got me from describing
running as sport, with all thefun bits taken out, to becoming
a massive fan of running, wasborn to run, and you got the
opportunity to race against thetarahumara in the famous race

(31:26):
that's talked about in born torun.
So tell us a little bit aboutyour, how ultra running changed
your perspective on endurancesport and how racing the
tarahumara also changed thatperspective oh yeah, and I'm you
.

Kurt Madden (31:40):
I'm so honored.
When I look back again, I thinkI was literally at the right
place at the right time with theTarahumaras.
So I, I, I needed to leave the,the status of a, of a pro that
was making a little bit of moneybecause we had, you know, the
family was in the plan and I hadto work full time and that was
all good.
But what I learned is that as Itraveled in the summer as an

(32:00):
educator with my wife, we wouldgo to different places.
So I was in Leadville, coloradoof all places, at 10,000 feet
and walking through this smalllittle town and there was
something called the LeadvilleWinter Store and I walked in
with my wife and I startedlooking at results and I go, oh
my gosh, the guy that won it,Jim O'Neill.
I raced that guy, I went tocollege with him.
He won this event.
Maybe I shouldn't have saw that, because I went back that night

(32:23):
and as we're at the campfireI'm thinking, I think I might
see what happens.
So the next day I got up alittle bit early.
I'm at 10,000 feet in elevation.
I ran around this lake.
It was about a 10-mile run.
I came back, my wife said you,you don't look good.
And I said no, I don't feelgood.
I mean, I literally sat in achair all day long and I'm
thinking okay, you got your butthanded to you, you're 10 000

(32:44):
feet and if you were gonna dothis, you know you'd have to do
90 more miles.
It's not gonna happen.
But you know what, when I see achallenge, charlie, I bite down
real hard and I say I'm gonnago for that.
Don't tell me I can't dosomething, because I'm really
stubborn at times, I'mdetermined.
So all of a sudden it was justlike, kind of like a wahoo.
I said okay, the best way toget experience, jump into a
100-mile run.

(33:04):
Don't kind of, you know, waffle.
So I entered a race six weeksbefore this, one called the Hard
Rock, and the Hard Rock is kindof a sister to Leadville For
our listeners.
This is real.
This starts at 10,000 feet inSilverton, colorado.
It's 33,000 vertical feet ofclimbing over 100 miles.
So you can look at that MountEverest.
Okay, you add a few more feetand that's what you're going,

(33:31):
but you got to come back down.
So it was climbing 10 mountainpasses, 100 mile run, and
literally within the first threemiles of that race.
You have to cross a stream andthere wasn't something where
we're going to keep your feetdry.
You have to grab a rope.
So everyone has to go together.
My strategy was maybe not thebest strategy, but I felt what I
should do is I'm just going tostay with the person that won it
last year as long as I can,until I get dropped.
So that's exactly what I did.

(33:53):
And literally at mile 30, hewas bleeding out his nose, he
was vomiting, and he turned tome and says, kurt, I can't go on
.
And I'm like okay, and I justkind of hung in there.
But I went up and down, and upand down, and up and down and I
think it was a mile 94.
So it starts at seven in themorning.
I went all night long.
I met two people.
That one person was actually onMount Everest when there was

(34:15):
that disaster back in what?
93 or something, where allthose people died on Everest,
and he's telling me all aboutEverest and how he was up there.
And I'm thinking I live in SanDiego, I'm a beach guy, this
guy's like at, you know, 28,000feet in elevation.
I am with the wrong group andanyway, I started hallucinating
at mile 94 and I had a reallyhard time staying on the course.

(34:36):
But I finished six in thatevent, very, very pleased.
And all of a sudden it's likeokay, now we're going to go to
Leadville six weeks later.
So I came back to San Diego,did a little bit of training,
jumped back in with my sons,went to Leadville and then the
Indians were there.
So for our listeners, try toimagine this here you have
Indians that are very primitive,that live in the Copper Canyon

(34:57):
and Mexico.
They show up to the carboloading party, smoking
cigarettes, drinking beer.
They threw all the pasta outand they ate the meat In the
meantime.
The sponsor for them wasRockport Shoes.
Now Rockport Shoes, I don'tthink they're as big as they
were today, as compared to the1990s, but part of the deal was
they gave them some money orsomething and they had to wear

(35:19):
these shoes.
Well, the Indians, they weresmart.
So what they did is they havetheir sandals, those hadachis.
They had gone over to thejunkyard and they had freshened
them all up and I think all ofthem ran with their Rockport
shoes to about mile 10.
And all of them at that pointtossed the shoes, they put on

(35:44):
their hadachis and they werechasing Ann Tracyn who was going
off the front.
And it's an out and back courseand I could see those guys.
They wear headbands, they havetheir white robes, they do a lot
of fart like they play a gamewith a wooden ball.
So they're going back and forthand back and forth, so
literally at that point I couldsee Juan Herrera just pass Ann
Tracyn and Tracyn, the female,was the legend.
She was in second, I was infourth until about mile.
It was mile 87.
And then two of the Indiansjust passed me.
It was like one o'clock in themorning.

(36:04):
I came into the next aid station.
My brother-in-law said you know, you're not doing well, you're
in deep poop.
And I go what do you mean?
And he goes, well, the twoIndians just passed you.
They drank two beers and hadtwo bean burritos.
Now I want to advise mylisteners if you want to have a
wild ride, go to 10,000 feet,drink two beers, eat two

(36:29):
burritos and then try to run 13miles.
I knew for me that was notgoing to happen, but I said I'm
just going to hang in there, I'mgoing to stay with my plan.
I finished sixth overall andI'm like, oh my goodness, I was
shocked.
I'm going, how did I pull thatone off?
Here I am with all the Indians.
I'm going, how did I pull thatone off?
Here I am with all the Indians.
I'm there with Ann Trason.
I'm some triathlete, convertedtrail runner from San Diego.
So for me, little did I realizethe book Born to Run really is

(36:50):
all about the Indians, and I wasjust again, just at the right
place at the right time.

Charlie Reading (36:56):
What an incredible story experience.
And just yeah, I mean magical.
What an incredible storyexperience.
And just yeah, I mean magical.
And I know the book just talksabout how they just glide by you
like a ghost and just yeah,must have been incredible.
So obviously I know you throughthe TriDot world as Coach K,
and you must have been coachedby so many different people over
the years.
Which coach kind of had thegreatest impact on you?

(37:19):
And also, how have you appliedwhat you've learned from other
coaches to the coaching that yougive your athletes now?

Kurt Madden (37:30):
Yeah, and I think, as I look back in time, I'm
probably no different than ourlisteners.
If you really try to look backand say who are the three people
that had the biggest impact onyou, hopefully it was your
parents.
I was in a very tough situationbetween my mom and dad.
There were nine differentmarriages, so my childhood was
very rocky.
But I can look back.
It was my high school swimmingcoach.
That there was something magicalabout him.
He just looked really cool, hehad a nice mustache, he had

(37:53):
these Ray-Ban sunglasses, he hada really nice car, he skied, he
surfed.
His life was beyond gorgeousand I'm an inner city kid.
I'll be the first person in myfamily to graduate from high
school and I want to be likethis guy.
But he had the character, hehad the charisma, he was
spontaneous, he could get intothe heart of anybody and he gave
me so much responsibility.

(38:13):
He leaned on me and challengedme and because of what he taught
me about grit, aboutperseverance, about character,
about working hard, about beinga leader, to this day, I'm
beyond grateful.
I think I was just at that pointin my life from 15 to 17, for
males.
We can all look back.
I've been told that male braindoesn't really mature until it's
40.
But I know for me he was againat the right place at the right

(38:36):
time to teach, know health andwellness and eating well and
just traveling and doingeverything and have a good
significant other, and I thinkto this day those are things
that you know.
They say the best time to plantthe tree was 20 years ago.
Well, for me he did it when Iwas 15.
And I think in doing that I'vetaken that.

(38:56):
But along the way again, Ithink I've just had people that
have been there to help me toopen up doors, that have
mentored me, that have guided meto be a better person, to be a
better coach, and I think indoing that it's being real,
being authentic and reallyhaving that humility that I want
to be like a piece of clay thatI can be shaped and molded and

(39:16):
really try for our listeners.
They can maybe appreciate thisthat if you throw out a pickle
to somebody, a pickle is apickle, but a cucumber is
something different, because acucumber is something that's a
little bit lively, it's fresh,it's ready to go when you get
the pickle.
Depending upon where you getthe pickle from, it can be a
little bit sour.
It can be a little bit.
The composition is broken up soI want it to be considered kind

(39:38):
of like a cucumber and do that.
The composition is broken up,so I wanted to be considered
kind of like a cucumber and dothat.
And when doors continued to openfor me, it really reinforced me
that I'm going in a positivedirection and my faith and
everything that I was meant todo this.
And little did I realize thatback when I was a pro and I
worked part-time at a communitycollege I was a swimming
instructor, track and fieldcoach, cross-country coach I

(39:59):
never imagined I was reallypreparing myself track and field
coach, cross country coach.
I never imagined I was reallypreparing myself for the work
I'm doing today.
That it's kind of like thatboomerang or it's that circle
that the more you give, the moreyou get.
It's come back to me.
So it's multiple people in mylife that has shaped me and I
think also just a real stablemarriage that my wife Kelly, or
I call her Queen K she'sreferenced as that, that after

(40:22):
46 years she's that stabilizerthat I think because of our
relationships I'm a little bitmore spontaneous, a little bit
more right brain.
She's extremely linear andkeeps me on the rails and, I
think, reinforcing me to be agood person, to be humble, to be
competitive, to do the heavylifting and get back, and I
think that's really a win for methat just doing that

(40:44):
relationship and I'm just beyondgrateful.
And then our Tridot family.
I've got so many awesomecoaches and people that I just
interface with and every day I'mfulfilled.
So I've got you know, every dayis a gift, every day is an
opportunity Amazing.

Charlie Reading (40:56):
And coming on to that, it's a lovely segue
into the Tridot community andwhat Tridot is doing.
I've been using Tridot, so Ioriginally met Jeff in Kona in
2022.
So I was there watching asbecause Claire and some other
mates were racing on theThursday and the Saturday.
How do you think AI is going totransform the world of
triathlete years to come?

Kurt Madden (41:32):
Yeah, I think for me, as I got back into racing
right around 2015, I didn'tquite know about TriDot yet, but
I was kind of a volume junkie,for lack of a better term
Because you can imagine in the1980s you're out there every day
with Scott Tenley, you're outthere with Malena, you're out
there with Mark Allen, and allyou're hearing these guys are
biking insane miles, they'redoing 400 miles a week, they're
swimming 30,000 yards, they'rerunning 80 or 90.

(41:53):
And if you're going to be likethem, you're going to have to do
and I was on a lot of grouprides with these guys and it was
insane and it's doing that timeafter time.
So I figured, hey, I'm oldernow, but I'll kind of just do
the same thing.
I'll just do those types ofworkouts.
And all of a sudden I'm onlineand all of a sudden somehow it
popped up like this tri-dot.
I met with a gentleman namedJohn Mayfield and we started

(42:14):
talking and he said, hey, justgive it a shot, then, you know,
you might want to coach.
So I started out in 2016.
I did three Ironman distanceevents over nine weeks.
For me, as I started tounderstand how the platform
works, the proof was in thepudding and I know that in every
race I did, my run off, thebike got faster and faster and

(42:35):
faster.
At that point, because I wasusing it myself, I said that
this is really a no-brainer andthen really starting to see the
evolution of Tridot, that theplatform we have today wasn't
the same as we had in 2016.
But if I just look at itgenerally speaking, I think the
big benefit is when you'relooking at engagement for an

(42:55):
athlete, you're not going to getstale.
Secondly, you've got so manychecks and balances that are
objective, because we all haveblind spots, we all have
philosophies, we all have thesefavorite things we like to do.
So if I'm doing that as anathlete, I'm really making sure
that I'm developing my stamina,developing my speed, being
injury-free.
And then the beauty of meworking with so many athletes

(43:18):
and then working with so manycoaches is I get a really broad
view of the platform and how touse it and how to make little
tweaks for every athlete buteducate the athlete on why it's
going to work.
And I tell people thatsometimes the question is can
you coach me without the Tryoutplatform?
And I'm very honest.
I said we could possibly dothat, but I'm going to be very

(43:38):
candid with you.
I'd have to charge you threetimes more because I'd have to
create those programs.
I'm going to do a lot ofguessing.
It's like I'm putting a recipetogether.
I don't quite have the recipe,but I'm just going to guess how
many things I put in to make itcome out just right.
I might hit it, I might miss it, you might get injured, you
might be overtrained, trainedfor the race.
I'm just going to guess on thebest thing to get you prepared.

(43:59):
But I've got no objectivemetrics and I think the
complexity of try it out whenyou really understand it, you
shouldn't doubt it.
You can doubt it a little bit.
You're going to have those daysthat you could do a little bit
more.
But as I look at even myself,because I use a platformer every
day, I can definitely say youknow, I'm looking at a main set
on the bike or the swim.
I can do a little bit more.
But it's funny because I'vedone that occasionally and when

(44:20):
I go a little bit off the railsI come back to why did I do that
?
As a male, I wasn't using mybrain, I was using my reptilian
brain.
I wasn't thinking clearly withmy head.
I should have listened to theAI to build in that recovery.
But I think when I look attrying to reduce injuries, race
well, love the sport, have a lotof variety.
Also, keep in mind I throw in alot of strength training,

(44:41):
mobility work, yoga, and I thinkthe yoga has made a big
difference to me.
So I supplement that.
But I know that it's made ahuge, huge difference and I
think, as as we saw, we just hadour virtual summit last
saturday I'm continuing to be astudent of our platform, because
our, our development team isalways lifting up the hood to
show us more about RaceX or theplatform, and then when you're

(45:03):
in mastermind groups, you'rehearing the best from all of our
coaches of what they're using.
So, in a way, we're a student atheart.
We want to be engaged, we wantto help.
But then what I do as soon as Iget out of those meetings, I
apply that to my athletes tomake sure that they're getting
the best they can and again,that kind of goes into that
longevity piece that they'regoing to be able to race longer

(45:23):
and be injury free.
I've got one athlete that is 80years old that is ranked number
one in the world.
He was just had a great race inKona.
He was fourth.
He was second in Tapao at the70.3 World Championships.
So no matter where you are inthe spectrum for our listeners
and what your interests are, wecan make those adjustments that
you can follow it yourself.
But I think also it opens theconversation to knowing the

(45:46):
platform well.
But what are the benefits ofhaving a coach?

Charlie Reading (45:50):
So, yeah, what are the benefits of having a
coach on top?
So I think that's a greatquestion to answer.
Next is because I mean, Iunderstand it and I talk a lot
about AI and talk abouthumanizing the human and
digitalizing the data.
So, for you, why would you havea coach if the AI is building
the whole training program?

Kurt Madden (46:09):
Yeah, and I think that is the question, that's a
question I pose to our coachesand our mastermind groups and,
generally speaking, what they'vetold me I just listen they said
that an athlete approved atleast 30% when they had the
right coach.
And this is why I've learnedtoo, even with our Ironman U,
our modules is that people canfollow a program and I think
that's awesome and we have tolook at it to say that is

(46:30):
looking at your physical abilityto put stress on your body,
recover and adapt.
That's important.
But now, when we look at thesports, you've got three
different disciplines.
You've got strength training,you've got transitions, you've
got nutrition, you've gotrecovery, you've got the mental
approach to competing, to doingwell, to goal set.

(46:51):
So really, it's the art andscience of being able to coach
that you're using the science ofAI, the algorithms and
everything that TriDot has.
At the same time, you're usingthe science of AI, the
algorithms and everything thatTriDot has.
At the same time, you're usingthe EQ of someone that is
serving as your guide, yourSherpa, to keep you on rails, to
really open it up.
To where do you want to go onthis journey?

(47:12):
I'm going to meet you rightthere to make sure that we're
working on that.
So it's really and then reallyunderstanding the why of the
athlete.
What is your purpose?
When you look at your values,you look at your beliefs, you
look at your core values,everything that you're doing.
I think I'm very fortunate,maybe gifted to a certain extent
, that I've done a lot ofprofessional development.
I do it every single day andit's really getting into the

(47:34):
minds of the athletes Because Itell people, if you let me get
into your hearts, I will getinto your head.
And as an educator I worked alot with kids that were
disadvantaged and kids that werefrom various ethnicities and I
could look at them and be ableto do that, even my sons
sometimes, and even otherstudents.
They would come to me and sayyou shouldn't do that and I said

(47:55):
why not?
Because that's a gangster.
And how do you relate with agangster?
Because you're not black.
I said because they can pick upon my vibe, they're very
intuitive.
So I think with athletes what Itry to do is make sure that I
can get in their hearts, get intheir heads, develop that trust.
So we take a coach and anathlete.
That's really Charlie, it'sfour, it's eight, it's 12,

(48:15):
because so many of my athletesthat I'm just so honored my
retention rate's high.
But even my 80-year-old, hetells me.
He says I can follow the plan.
I'm an accountant, I have very,very I can do that.
But I need you to comealongside me to get in my head,
to keep me on the rails, to talkabout confidence, to talk about
nutrition, to better educate me.
And when someone is so reallike that, it's like, oh my gosh

(48:37):
, I'm going to work 10 timesharder for these athletes
because they want to grow andthey want to scale and this day
and age, you know what Coachingis kind of the thing.
If you don't have a coach, thenyou're missing the boat.
I've got a coach right here 46years.
She told me.
She tells me all the time.
I love you so much.
I will tell you one thing youare a work in progress.
I don't tell her to pack sand.
I don't tell her hey, no, no,no.

(48:57):
You know what?

Charlie Reading (48:58):
I actually listen.
I think that's brilliant and Ithink it's it's so right and I
think a lot of the industry seesai as a threat and yet actually
it's the opportunity to be abetter coach, isn't it?
And I think that's that'sreally powerful.
We've kind of touched on thisfemale male thing in kona and I
really want to make sure wecover that before I kind of go
to the last two questions thatwe always want to wrap up with
um in 2022.

(49:19):
I was there watching Claire,watching some other friends, and
it was such an amazingexperience.
I mean, obviously would haveloved to have been racing there.
I thought it just it was somagical because everybody got to
see somebody else race, butobviously also there's been
previous years where the guysand the girls have raced on the
same day.
So what format do you think theWorld Championships should be

(49:41):
going forward and why?

Kurt Madden (49:42):
Yeah, I remember 2022 vividly.
I was one of those males that,because of my age, I was racing
with a woman.
So that was an interesting day.
That was a day where I wouldsay honestly, I know there were
two separate races, but thatstill felt like the ironman
world championship because I waswith women, if I didn't know
anything, and I was just outthere racing.
To me it was just like a kindof a normal, traditional kona

(50:06):
race.
At the same time, I think themen, from what I heard, were at
a real disadvantage, that youknow the, the volunteers and the
aid stations and everything.
They were pretty strung out andthey didn't quite do that.
And you know, I didn't racethat race, so I can't give you
context, but I did race Nice andI know racing Nice, which is
man, that was the missing piecewhen I was in Nice, not just

(50:27):
being not in Kona, but racingNice, which is man.
It just didn't feel the same.
And I think, as Ironman hasdone a very, very good job that
they've actually surveyed people, men has done a very, very good
job that they've actuallysurveyed people.
But I think that the massmajority of people are really
wanting to get everything backtogether again, meaning the men
and women make it a how do wesay this nicely a legitimate

(50:48):
world championship.
That we know that we've learnedthat from the business side,
that various races, dependingupon the race you're at, that
roll down rolls down really,really, really far.
That there's people we learnedthis in Nice with our woman that
they did get a slot to Nice,but maybe when you look at their
finish time on the course theyfinished on and, looking at Nice
, they just couldn't scale thatbike course and I think, again,

(51:10):
they proved us wrong.
Because I think, really,charlie, if we go back to when
they raced, well, it wasactually 2023.
Highest success rate.
All the women got out of thewater.
I was there, I had five athletes.
I was really excited and pumped, but I think that, as we look
at 2026, it would be theultimate to really get the men
and women back together, but2,500, 2,700 people, and I think

(51:32):
in doing that, we'll bring backthe Ohana, we'll bring back
that world championship feelingagain and do you think that
should be in Kona every year, ordo you think that should be
alternate between Kona and Nice?
Yeah, I'm probably going to be alittle biased.
Where some people might give mea thumbs up, there are some
people that might give me athumbs down.
But I think that there'ssomething about finishing on a

(51:52):
Leahy Drive and I don't know ifyou experienced that, because
you go back to 1981 to say, as Ilook at all these legends, they
took on the same air that Itook in.
This is a very sacred lasthundred yards and you can try to
recreate it somewhere else.
But I think it takes years andyears and years and years to
develop that tradition,tradition.

(52:14):
And I think in Kona thattradition has been established
that you can look back and say,hey, all these people, I'm one
of those things and you knowwhat's really cool is that no
one's going to ever be able totake that away from you.
You can lose your car, yourhouse can burn down, you can
lose your job, but you finishedon a Leahy Drive at the World
Championship.
And to me, if I had one littlewish and I had my little magic

(52:34):
wands, I would try to find a wayto have everyone who aspires to
train for that to do that eventright there.
So I'm going to say it's Konafor me.

Charlie Reading (52:45):
I think there's so many people like I was never
bothered about racing in theworld championship.
That's not true.
I was bothered about racing inthe world championships, but I
was bothered about racing in theworld championships in Kona.
I probably could have got aslot for Nice the year before,
but I didn't even go down, go tothe salary, because it didn't.

(53:05):
It wasn't what.
What I was looking for.
I wanted the Kona slot and itkind of what you don't want is
to devalue, you know, so thatit's every other year.
That is what people are goingafter, which, yeah, so it's
really, really difficult, butyeah, it would be magical if we
could go back to that.
But then, equally appreciatingthat, like if you live in South
Africa, it costs you an absolutefortune and a huge amount of
time to get to Kona.

(53:26):
So you kind of like, yeah, it'sdifficult, and I know you're
really well-read in the personaldevelopment space, so I'm
really intrigued to hear whereyou're going to go with this one
.
But what books have you foundhave helped you on your journey,
or do you find yourselfrecommending to your athletes
regularly?

Kurt Madden (53:47):
Yeah, I think in preparation for this, I've kind
of made a list that I'llreference here and there's no
particular order, but I thinkwhen I look at everything that I
listen to from podcasts tobooks to journals I'm going to
go ahead and start.
The first book is called GoodEnergy and Good Energy.
It's written by Dr Means and Ithink it gives you a really good

(54:07):
perspective on metabolic health.
There are some things in therethat maybe are a little bit
extreme, but if you look at it,the overarching themes it's
going to be valuable for anyathlete or any coach.
The second book that I'm almostdone with is called Performance
Paradox and the author isBersinio.
He was a student of someonenamed Carol Dweck Dr Carol Dweck

(54:29):
and she was a person thatreally started with that growth
mindset, but it really teachesyou a lot about performance
versus practice and I think it'sjust, it's really opened my
eyes like this guy is reallyreally brilliant of how to
toggle back and forth and findthat sweet spot.
The third book is written byLiz Wiseman and it's called
Impact Players and I know that Ireferenced that during our

(54:53):
tried out certification program.
Liz has written several books,from multipliers, rookie, smarts
you can look her up online.
She's got ongoing professionaldevelopment.
Impact players is huge foranyone, no matter where they are
, especially our professionalsthat are on, but someone that
really wants to learn a lotabout how to make a big
difference and be that impactplayer.

(55:13):
The next one I'm going to add isHidden Potentials by an author
named Adam Grant.
The next one I'm going to addis Hidden Potentials by an
author named Adam Grant.
So, as I look at my icons thatare out there right now, adam
Grant is profound and I think,as a coach, as a person to
really say so, I have morepotential than I'm using.
What can I do?
That is an awesome read.
You're not going to go wrongthere.

(55:34):
And the last one that I'll goahead and wrap up is a book
called Optimal, and Optimal iswritten by Daniel Goldman, and
Daniel is someone that hasreally shaped me with my
curiosity on emotionalintelligence.
But he really kind of talksabout defining an optimal day.
He talks about EQ.
He talks about you know thatintelligence is not fixed.

(55:56):
A lot of people think, well,that's just a smart kid.
Well, kid is really smart, butwe've got hardworking kids too.
But it's knowing how to useyour IQ and your EQ.
And I think when I look atsuccess in life, I try to always
ask what makes a personsuccessful?
That we can you know that we canall have, you know, shades of
gray on, but I think you need acertain amount of IQ and

(56:17):
knowledge.
But when you look at Bloom'staxonomy and you start to move
up and you look at the corporateworld or you look at even
competing, I think honestly thepeople that have that EQ, like a
Mark Allen See, mark was agreat athlete, but see, mark is
really good in his head and yougo back to him and Dave Scott
battling it out, that wasn't aphysical game, that was a line

(56:38):
game.
And it's very clear when youlook at Iron Wars, who can hang
on 10 more minutes?
Who can say, no, I am not goingto bail on this one, no matter
what?
So I think EQ is something that, boy, you can never learn
enough about.
And then continue to apply thatto your people that you're
around with your family members,your professional, your
athletes, around with yourfamily members, your

(56:58):
professional your athletes, yourcircle of influence.

Charlie Reading (57:04):
Well, that is a brilliant five additions to my
reading list.
And I love Adam Grant as anauthor, but I haven't read
Hidden Potential Again loveDaniel Goldman as an author,
haven't read Optimal, and theother three I hadn't even heard
of, although I have read Mindsetby Carol Dweck.
So that sounds like fiveamazing recommendations.
Thank you for that.
They will all be going on thereading list.
The last question is alwaysasked by the previous guest on
the podcast, without knowing whothe next guest is going to be.

(57:26):
And the previous guest was EdChang, one of the founders of
Valo, which is a sports apparelcompany.
And Ed asked the question ifyou could have a meal with any
person from any time in history,who would it be and why?

Kurt Madden (57:43):
I'm probably going to go with Carlos Santana.
Interesting, and why is that?
Well, I've got about fivepeople I'd invite to dinner.
But if it really came down to Ionly had a certain amount of a
good English meal.
I would invite Santana Becausehis story is remarkable and I
think music is a universallanguage and to see his energy,

(58:03):
to see his passion they call himCarlos the collaborator and as
I read his autobiography it'sjust incredible and I know that
there's something about hismusic, about his vibe, that
still today just resonates withpeople.
But he's just filled withhumility, he's very spiritual,
he's very holistic and I thinkthere's something that we were

(58:23):
talking about the other day.
When you start to experiencethe blues in any way, shape or
form in life short-term,long-term what brings you back?
And the consensus from everyone, they're two things it's
movement and music.
So when you think about thatand I've been to enough of his
concerts that how can someonestart a song and in 30 seconds
everyone is literally standingup.

(58:43):
I mean, I've been to Liverpool,I've been in the cavern and I'm
thinking I love the Beatlesback in the day.
But someone that can be able todo that with the energy that
vibe, to me it's like he hasleft his legacy and again he
must be so fulfilled from hishumble beginnings, of where he
started as a person and whathe's doing today.
So I always look up to Santanaas one of my icons to say Carlos

(59:05):
, you are the man.
I just love you so much, myfriend.
So let's sit down.
We'll have some rice and beans,you know, maybe an adult
beverage, you know, and somesalsa.
And tell me some stories.

Charlie Reading (59:17):
Amazing.
Well, that's just another bookI've just added to the reading
list again.
I think you're going to have tostop this conversation or I'll
never get through it.
But no, that's brilliant and Ilove that.
And actually I don't know muchabout Carlos Santana.
I love his music but I don'tknow much about it, so I'm
definitely going to go throughthat as well.
Kurt, it's been, it's beenabsolutely brilliant chatting to

(59:44):
you.
It's also been brilliantgetting to know you, but also
just the stories of that you'vegot, and, like you said, right
place, right time, but alsoright mindset to be in the right
place at the right time, whichI think, and take those
opportunities up, which is isabsolutely the key.
So a huge thank you foreverything you've done in the
Tridot world, but also in thisconversation.

Kurt Madden (01:00:06):
Yeah, and Charlie, I just want to thank you that
I'm just honored and tickled tobe with you today and your
listeners, and it's long overdue.
And we're partners with Tridot,with our sport.
Let's keep growing it and knowthat, again, I'm available if at
any time for anything.
So count me in, I'm always 100%in.
So let's keep on thisincredible journey of raising
that bar.

Charlie Reading (01:00:26):
And to save me a job afterwards.
Where's the best place forpeople that are listening to
this to track you down, Some ofour listeners, don't go on
Facebook, but you could reach meon Facebook or just, you know,
email.

Kurt Madden (01:00:36):
It would just be Kurt K-U-R-T dot.
Madden M-A-D-D-E -N atTridotcom.
I am on Instagram too, andagain, for people that are in
the Tridot circle, I'm on thatCoach Hub and Community Hub
Amazing.

Charlie Reading (01:00:49):
Brilliant.
Thank you so much.
So what did you make of theinterview with Kurt Madden?

Claire Fudge (01:01:04):
It was a fantastic one and sorry to have missed it
.
I was going to say the historybehind his career as an athlete,
but also just all of that kindof life experience in the world
of endurance, you know, whetherit's triathlon or ultra running.
Just amazing to listen backactually to the story.

Charlie Reading (01:01:12):
He's got incredible longevity in the
sport, hasn't he?
To do one of the first Ironmansback in Oahu in 1918, right the
way through to do kona in 2024.
And actually, when I wasspeaking to him separately, I
think his plan is to go back anddo the next kona in two years
because it'll be the 50thanniversary, I think, of ironman
and at that point he'll be inhis 70s.

(01:01:32):
So it just shows how amazingthe people can carry on doing
this stuff for years and yearsand years.
And, yeah, absolutely brilliant.
And what did you make of hisultra running experiences as
well, and racing the tarahumara?

Claire Fudge (01:01:45):
and what an experience as well to race with
the tarahumara.
I think his journey throughendurance is just.
It's inspiring as well, andhe's and it seems like he's just
never stopped.
He's and I think I can'tremember the word he used not
not lucky, but he just was itthe right place at the right
time?
I think that's was that theword he used, I think.

Kurt Madden (01:02:00):
Yes, for sure.

Claire Fudge (01:02:01):
And just almost slipped into things, and I think
that can be very true ofbusiness as well, can't it Like
you've got everything readyalmost, and suddenly
opportunities arise that you cannow say yes to.
So I think, yeah, I thinkopportunity was almost at his
doorstep the whole time, butmaybe he was also a person that
says yes.

Charlie Reading (01:02:20):
I was going to say exactly that.
I think, yes, some people wouldsay he was in the right place
at the right time, but he wasalso saying yes to those
opportunities that gave himthose experiences.
So that's what was reallyinspiring.
I also think he's as good as anexample as anyone we've had on
the podcast, with a growthmindset in terms of I'm going to
go off and read these books,I'm going to learn these things,

(01:02:40):
I'm going to learn from thesepeople and now I can really see,
certainly from.
He's not my coach within Tridot.
Obviously I've got Will andRaya as my coach, but in what he
feeds back into the Tridotcommunity, he's got this
incredible growth mindset ofwe've just got to continue to
learn and do this.
And actually I think it'sdemonstrated by the fact that
he's embraced the AI withincoaching.

(01:03:02):
Like you'd think, an oldercoach and an older athlete might
be more resistant to somethinglike that, but he's absolutely
embraced that and I think it'syeah, that's absolutely
inspiring and it's a greatepisode to wrap up season eight,
isn't it like so much goodwisdom in there?
And it's been a brilliantseason.

Claire Fudge (01:03:19):
We've had some amazing guests on season eight
and we've got some amazingguests lined up for season nine
as well we have some amazingguests lined up, so, yeah, this
season's been great with such avariety of different people as
well it has.

Charlie Reading (01:03:31):
There's been a good mix of business and and
endurance and athletes andcoaches and yeah, and season
nine will be very much the sameMore business, more amazing
world champion athletes we'vegot lined up.
We've got some of the world'sbest lined up for this season.
So I know you're going toabsolutely love it.
And in between that we'll do afew short episodes.

(01:03:54):
While we wait and get ourselvesorganized to record all of the
season nine episodes, we'll do afew short episodes to do a bit
of a catch-up on what we thoughtwere the key takeaways from
season eight and a few moreseeds of excitement for season
nine.
Glad that you're back fightingfit claire and for everyone at
home, keep on training if youwant us to keep getting amazing

(01:04:19):
guests onto the Business ofEndurance podcast.
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(01:04:39):
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Thanks very much.