October 25, 2023 • 26 mins
Get ready to transform your law firm's intake procedures with actionable insights from Chris Mullins, the Phone Sales Doctor. This episode promises to deliver crucial tips on building an effective intake team in your firm, putting the spotlight on both inbound and outbound sales. Chris guides us through the necessity of a well-devised system to convert digital leads aggressively and the importance of chasing leads promptly to ensure they don't slip away.
Moving forward, we uncover the vital role of an intake sales manager and how they drive your law firm's success. Tune in as we reveal strategies for monitoring and auditing calls, providing constructive feedback, and employing technology to enhance call handling. Chris lends her expertise in explaining the significance of presence, body language, and the nuances of tone and voice during calls.
Learn more about Chris and get her book by visiting intakeacademy.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight
Branding.
Whether your firm only gets afew referrals or it's 100% of
your business, you have theopportunity to double your
referrals through educational,informative content.
The pros at Spotlight Brandingcan help you create that content
through blogging videos, emailnewsletters and more All
(00:22):
designed to help you increaseyour referrals and attract the
kinds of clients you want towork with.
Visit spotlightbrandingcomslash pod to learn more.
That's spotlightbrandingcomslash pod.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are focusing on a
crucial part of your law firmand one that can really impact
the ROI of your marketing, andthat is your intake team.
(01:17):
And, specifically, we're goingto talk this week about how you
can build an effective intaketeam for your firm.
And joining us to help us dothat is Chris Mullins.
She was on the show goshprobably I think it was probably
sometime last year, you know,just talking about the reception
role and that front end role,and so she joins us here to talk
again about building a reallyeffective intake team.
(01:40):
So, chris, thanks for joiningus once again.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it, John.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Of course, and so, for people who may not have
caught you the first time around, tell us a little about who you
are and how you do help lawfirms in this area.
All right.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
So it's chrismullinsintakeacademycom and
I'm known as the phone salesdoctor.
Primary focus area has beenintake for like 30 years now,
and I would say probably thelast 20 years.
(02:16):
It's also been attorneys andnegotiations and paralegal and
client care.
So what happened was throughall intake training that we do
in Bound Outbound, when managingpartners would sit in on the
class as they realized that alot of the skills being taught
were needed in other areas, sofor client retention.
(02:38):
So yeah, and our main focus isconversion and for clients it's
retention.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, absolutely so, and I think when a lot of law
firm owners they're starting tothink about the different roles
in their company, they kind ofmaybe get a little tunnel vision
on it.
They kind of look at thingsvery rigidly.
Ok, well, my intake personthat's just another word for
receptionist and I think whenyou tell a lot of people like it
(03:08):
can also be kind of a salesrole, which sounds kind of
strange, especially for me.
When I first got into this Ididn't think of a law firm
needing a sales person in thesame way that maybe like a
company that sells physicalproducts would.
But you kind of say thatthere's a lot of in that.
So what does a sales role oreven a sales sort of approach
(03:33):
look like in a law firm?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, the law firms.
They're spending huge sums ofmarketing dollars.
That leads to get into the firmeither by chat or web forms or
phone.
So if you're doing that, thenyou have a business that has a
profit and you have a bottomline, your responsibilities, and
(03:57):
so you're not going to spendthat kind of money if you don't
have a system in place toconvert.
And when you convert,converting is sales and it's
that simple.
It's that.
Yeah, that's what?
Yeah, I mean you can't get awayfrom it.
That's what it's at the end ofthe day, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, and so I think a lot of law firm owners, if
they do see something as salesor even just kind of the leads
that they generate, they see italmost exclusively as inbound
sales.
They're waiting for the peopleto come to them.
Maybe they're doing somemarketing to try to get people
into that funnel, but generallya lot of them probably see it as
(04:33):
exclusively inbound sales.
But there is an element ofoutbound sales as well for a law
firm, and so how can a firm'sintake team make that happen?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
The outbound part, you mean.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well.
So before I go there, though, Ijust want to kind of emphasize
that, yeah, inbound calls isit's inbound sales.
So we ask them to call us.
They called and so that'sselling.
We wanna convert them.
It's not a done deal justbecause they called, and so the
outbound part is chasing,because not everybody is gonna
(05:15):
say yes like right away justbecause they called you.
It's not a guarantee.
And so you wanna have a processin place where you're chasing
which is picking up the phoneand so it's outbound by doing
that.
And it's not easy just becausethey called you initially,
because the moment they hang up,there's an emotional gap there
(05:38):
where we're losing them likeTikTok, tiktok, tiktok.
We're losing them and mostintake departments are not set
up to be able to do both inbound, outbound or have an outbound
team, because we just haven'tgotten there yet.
But the problem with that is ifit's 10 o'clock on Monday and
(06:01):
married and signed and we don'tcall her back to check in at 12
o'clock, we're gonna lose her.
We probably already did loseher, but we're gonna lose her.
And so outbound sales chasingthere's all kinds of different
ways to do outbound.
If you do in digital marketing,your leads are coming in not by
(06:22):
the phone, right, a lot of them.
Well, you definitely need to bepretty aggressive with those,
and those are even harder tocall.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you
because I mean, I've even seenthis kind of in my own personal
experience.
I've told this story a bunch oftimes when I got a traffic
ticket and I was looking for alaw firm to handle it.
A lot of people, when theydon't have an immediate need, a
lot of people are gonna besending out feelers to different
(06:51):
law firms.
They're gonna fill out webforms on several different law
firm websites and it's usuallynot 100% of the time, but the
majority of the time it'susually the law firm that
reaches out first to respond to.
That is the one that ends upgetting that business Right.
Speed to lead.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
It's all about speed to lead and you gotta keep in
mind something that prospectiveclients that are reaching out to
your firm, however they got in,whatever the entry point, is
their consumers like you and me,and we all shop right, If I'm
gonna go buy a car, I'm notgonna call one dealership.
We all shop.
If I'm looking for a roofer,I'm gonna call a few of them and
(07:33):
it's whoever handles me thebest over the phone and acts
like they're happy and they wanttheir business and they ask for
the sale.
They're the ones that are gonnawin.
I think the number is I don'tknow if this is 100% accurate
still, because it might be alittle bit old but I believe
it's like prospective clientsare gonna call three to five of
your competitors before theymake their phone.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and especially for us as a
marketing company, like thestuff that we do will only get
you to a certain point.
Right, at some point webasically have to hand off the
responsibility to you.
Like it's our job to drivepeople to your website and it's
our job to design a website thatgets people to fill out that
(08:16):
form, but once they do that,there's really not much else we
could do.
And so when you talk about theROI of your marketing and you
talk about, well, oh well, myfirm hasn't grown or I'm not
getting enough clients, it's.
I think this is one of theplaces where you have to look at
where sometimes it's not thatthe marketing was doing
(08:38):
something wrong.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's that you lost out on a lot of these
opportunities because youweren't quick enough or you
didn't have someone on your teamreaching out quick enough to
get these people to actuallybook that consultation and sign
that retainer 100% and I wouldrecommend that marketing
companies what they do is theyadd to their checklist, you know
(09:00):
, when they work with a new, oreven before they sign up another
law firm and say this is theaudit we're gonna do to diagnose
how things are going, before wecan say not just you say, I do,
but before I say I do and we'regonna check intake.
And because for a marketingagency, you wanna make sure, you
(09:21):
wanna know that they have ateam and they can convert, and
if they don't, it doesn't evenmake sense because they're just
gonna come back to you and belike well, why aren't we
converting?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.
Let's then imagine that, okay,we have a law firm here, they
have someone in this intake role.
What are just some basic skillsor even like personality traits
or characteristics or somethingthat make that an intake
specialist that a law firm needsto have.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
They need to be okay with the S word sales and the S
word script.
They've got to be okay withthat.
And you know their mindset isthey need to like if you ask
them out of the blue hey, what'sthe desired outcome of your job
, what is it?
You want them to say conversion.
(10:16):
Most will not.
So you want them to have asales mindset.
You want them to obviously havea customer service mindset.
You want them to be able tohandle rejection.
You want them to be able tounderstand that their voice and
their tone and the cadence inwhich they speak has a big plays
(10:37):
, a big factor in therelationship game.
You don't really want to hirepeople that say I love people, I
just I love people and I lovetalking on the phone.
Because most people say thatthey're just they're looking for
a customer service job, notreally a sales job.
(10:57):
And so you want to dig a littlebit and because that's the
typical answer and you just wantto do a little bit and find out
what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, they can be great with customer service, but
they also have to be okay withmetrics and scripts and goals
and monitoring and gettingfeedback and handling criticism
and having goals and, you know,really, really a very strong
focus on sales.
And if so, you've got to hirethose people.
(11:28):
Those are the people you have.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah Well, what's interesting me and I'm really
curious to get your thoughts onthis and how you coach you know
business owners on this.
You know in my experience, alot of really good sales people
have the communication skills.
They are able to establish thatrapport with people.
They're great talking withpeople and all that.
But a lot of them, I think,struggle with the details and
(11:56):
keeping those notes and doingthe metrics and all of that.
How do you, how do you coachpeople on trying to find that
balance or finding the rightperson?
Who can you know who has asmany of those skills?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, I think, I think.
Well, one thing is I have neverknown A sales team in any
business that didn't havesalespeople that were always
getting in trouble.
So the salespeople, the onesthat are converting, and they're
really good at it, first theyknow it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
But that's what they do well.
All the other stuff they don'tand they're in trouble a lot,
right, I mean that's.
I mean they're risk takers andthat's what they do.
They convert and that's whatyou hire them for.
So the other things that arereally important, I would say
good salespeople are good aboutmetrics because they that's how
they make their money.
Yeah, goals and all of that,but all the other things that
(12:54):
come with the job they need toalso do a good job.
But that's that's up toleadership and management to
provide the right training andacross the board, like period,
and we don't really have thebest onboarding processes really
in general.
So if we just take care of theonboarding process and do the
(13:15):
right thing and have a reallygood curriculum in place, that
particular individual, they'llbe OK because they have the
right training and then theyhave mentors and coaches in the
department that are helping thembecause we want them to sell.
Yeah so we got to take care ofthe rest for them right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So the one other question I had just kind of in
this area when you are likeeither posting for this job or
you have this position in yourfirm, do you Advise that this is
like a commission based role oris it, you know?
Because, like for me, I hear asales position and someone's
doing, you know, having a salesphilosophy in mindset when
(13:58):
they're doing this.
I got to imagine then thatthere's some sort of you know
bonus or some sort ofstipulation in order to get them
to convert that.
Do you advise that this is moreof a commission based role then
, as an intake specialist, orwhat do you suggest?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
No, I wouldn't say this type of selling when, where
leads are being fed to youPretty, you know, high qualified
, basically because of themarketing, I wouldn't say it at
all, commission, but I I do feelthat there needs to be a bonus
(14:35):
plan in place, a spiff orsomething in place for and
everybody needs to have a goal.
So there needs to be team goalsand when the team is pushing
each other so that they can getthere, and then individual goals
and there should be some sortof monetary reward for that.
But don't make it easy, don't,don't, don't make it easy.
(14:55):
I mean, it's this is selling,and so you know, you've got to
know what their baseline is andthen and then just push them to
go to go further.
But yeah, I think that.
But not not all sit, not allcommission, not a hundred
percent commission Got it Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, no, it's just.
It's just interesting because,like you know, and just me in my
mind and thinking about youknow, especially like how our
sales team is here and how, andI understand how that's
structured and so it's justinteresting kind of seeing like
how it might be different, evenjust for the clients that we
serve, and so, you know, it'sreally interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think like just have different levels
of Like a bonus for them.
So you know, everybody meetsthe goal, you get this, but when
you exceed, you get this, andthen maybe, and then even would
be great, is when they Getretainer signed, and these are
high level cases.
Yeah really big ones, thenthere should be a little bit
(15:51):
more for that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree for sure.
And so, kind of on the otherside of that, you know, as as
the the owner, obviously theseare people that you're managing
and I feel like a lot ofmanagers.
When it comes to managing likethe intake role, obviously the
(16:14):
best way to kind of really gaugehow well of a job they're doing
is to listen to some callrecordings.
But I feel like a lot ofmanagers are hesitant to do that
for one reason or another Ihave no idea why because it's
such a great tool to providefeedback.
So what do you then advise?
What does that rhythm look likefor monitoring or auditing
(16:36):
calls?
What should you be listeningfor, or anything?
Because, as a business owner,you're going to really hone in
and say, well, I would have saidthis differently or I would
have done this differently onprobably every single thing.
They're probably not going toget it 100% right every time.
So how do you coach, then,business owners on how to kind
(16:57):
of set that rhythm up forlistening to call recordings and
providing that feedback?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Well, so first off, you want to have an intake sales
manager.
You know it's all about selling.
So if we do what we tend to do,is we just have a great person
that can manage intake.
(17:23):
But they're not even hard to bethat sales manager.
They're not going to think thatway, and so that's just not
going to be natural, it's notgoing to happen.
And then you're going to haveall kinds of other problems.
So that's one thing.
The other is that whattypically happens is we get
great intake people and thenthat person gets promoted to
(17:48):
supervisor or manager, but bydefault it's only because
there's a hole in the departmentand things are falling apart
and we need somebody.
Oh, mary, she's been here longenough, let her go do it.
So now we have somebody that hasno idea what's going on, let
alone the call monitoring, andthe other thing that's happening
is that you have Mary, you callmanager, leader, supervisor,
(18:12):
whatever you want to call thatperson, and every consultant,
like Chris Mullins or somebodyelse, comes in and they say
everybody agrees.
Oh, yeah, well, yeah, we'regoing to listen to calls.
That's really, really important.
It never happens because Maryis doing a bunch of other things
, not even managing thedepartment reports all kinds of
(18:34):
stuff.
So now she's completely doesn'teven have the time to do it.
So the first thing is, top downagain, the mindset has to be
sales, sales manager, and letthe sales manager monitor calls
and help the team and coach them, let them convert, figure out
another way to take care of allthe other things.
(18:55):
I mean you can have anassistant, you can have people
that grow into other positions.
They start here.
There's other things that youcan do, but the most important
thing to conquer is the salesand the conversion of the
monitoring.
And then, as far as teachingusing the monitoring, one of the
best ways to do it would be toyou have the technology where
(19:17):
you I could be the sales manager, the intake sales manager, and
I could be listening to a calllive while you're on the phone,
john, talking to Mrs Smith, andthen I could there's a whisper
and I could just tell you whatto say when you're in trouble
and you're struggling, and MrsSmith won't hear it.
So that's the the primo bestright.
(19:38):
Do that with management bywalking around too, because as
you're walking around, yourpresence is there, that that
vibration of your presence isbeing felt by everybody.
It's going to motivate themmore, and then you can watch
their body language and seesomebody like like, do we have a
problem somewhere which helpswith the calls?
(19:59):
That's the best.
But if you can't do that, ifyou don't have that system in
place which I really don't getthat expensive anymore to do
that then just listen to calls,however you.
You can do it, whether it's atyour desk or you access the call
recordings and listen for toneof voice, listened for language
(20:22):
and words that are being used.
Does it sound like that intakespecialist wants to be on the
call or they don't want to be inthe call?
Did they?
Do they sound like?
Yeah, you know what I mean,mary.
So, yeah, I mean, you know it'sup to you.
Do they sound like that?
Or do they sound like you madethe right decision calling?
You're not alone anymore.
You don't have to look anyfurther.
I'm gonna send you the retainerright now.
(20:44):
Yeah so what?
What are you hearing and whatdo you feel as the monitor when
you're listening to the calls?
How does it make you feel?
Because you're a person tooRight, yeah, and are we asking
for sales?
Or are we just kind of likequestion answer, question answer
, question answer.
Yeah, we are we on our way toconverting from the beginning to
(21:08):
the middle, to the end, or arewe just stuck With question
answer, question answer,question answer and we're never
even gonna get to the rest?
Do we understand the person'sEmotional pain?
Did they?
Did they reveal what it wasbefore we even asked it and we
didn't listen for theopportunity and stop everything
(21:28):
and put the brakes on and jumpon it and talk about it.
Yeah so those are.
I mean, those are.
Those are some things that youreally want to think about.
And then they.
Then there's a formula that Iteach called PAS problem,
agitate solution.
It's not something that Idevelop, it's way old school.
So pass problem, agitatesolution.
(21:52):
Have you taught your intaketeam how to identify the real
problem?
It's not the car accident,right?
Everything that's unfolding,how the life is falling apart.
Specifically, I used to take mymother to chemo every Tuesday
morning and now I can't.
Now there's nobody else becauseI don't have a car and she's
not growing chemo.
Yeah, and when they identifythe problem, did they agitate it
(22:15):
and Repeat it back and instillsome urgency?
And then did they solve it?
Yeah, I said in a retainer.
So those are like the thingsyou want to think about.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, and then one final thing that when I ask you
about you know, because I know alot of our audience Probably
utilizes this as a vendor butlike some of these receptionist
companies out there who you knowhave the virtual receptionist,
Do you have any experience inworking with them on behalf of a
law firm?
(22:46):
Or have you coached Any lawfirm owners on how to work with
a vendor like that?
Or do you really just preferSomeone who's in-house and in
that position?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Well.
So we're always coaching thelaw firm on how to Communicate
and work and build a partnershipand a relationship with the
call centers.
I mean we're teaching themthey're your team.
Here's how you have to act Withthem, hold them accountable.
So that's that.
(23:18):
I 100% believe that it's betterfor your law firm to have your
own team.
I Mean you're gonna, you'regonna get much more with your
own team.
Then you are with a call centerthat it's working with the
gazillion law firms.
I mean they can't they can'treally dedicate themselves to
you, but your own team can.
So I highly recommend your ownteam.
(23:39):
I highly recommend hiringvirtual and have your own
Virtual call center, if you will.
Your own virtual.
It takes sales team 24-7, 365days of the year.
People have accidents and haveDOI and criminal issues and
everything at one in the morning, and three of them.
(24:00):
These things happen.
So so just do it.
And it's also a lot moreinexpensive Than it is to have a
call center.
You know somebody else's callcenter.
That's the way to go 100%, butit's a last last, last resort.
Okay, maybe you need to havethe call center, maybe for an
(24:20):
emergency backup, but you haveto treat them like they're your
team and listen to those callsand hold them accountable.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Awesome.
Well, how can people learn moreabout you and intake Academy
and in all the ways that youhelp?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Right, you can go to intake Academy comm, you can
email Chris at intake Academycomm and you can opt in to
download my book for free whenyou go to intake Academy comm
and you'll get a couple of greatarticles and You'll also
receive our weekly Mondaymorning email stimulator.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Awesome.
Yeah, I mean, I know that youhave a ton of great resources.
You know especially dedicatedlawyers.
I know you've contributed somereally great articles to our
website Just around just thatintake specialist role and so
definitely recommend checkingout everything that Chris has
going on there.
One final question for youbefore we wrap up here If you
had one final piece of advicefor our listeners, what would it
(25:19):
be?
Just one.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Listen to your calls and give feedback to the team.
That's it.
If you just do that one thing,your conversion will improve.
Little hinges swing big doors.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Love it?
Yeah, absolutely, and so youknow I can't recommend, you know
, just the ongoing coaching toyour intake team.
Enough, just because it makesthe stuff that we do look that
much better.
But yeah, that's just, that'sme being selfish there.
But, yeah, really appreciateyou coming on sharing all this
great insight, as always, andthat's going to do it for us
here this week.
If you have not done so yet,please leave a rating and review
(25:56):
for the show and that's it,chris.
Thanks so much.
You're welcome.
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom.
Slash center stage.
This podcast is brought to you by Spotlight
Branding.
Whether your firm only gets afew referrals or it's 100% of
your business, you have theopportunity to double your
referrals through educational,informative content.
The pros at Spotlight Brandingcan help you create that content
through blogging videos, emailnewsletters and more All
(00:22):
designed to help you increaseyour referrals and attract the
kinds of clients you want towork with.
Visit spotlightbrandingcomslash pod to learn more.
That's spotlightbrandingcomslash pod.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
This is Center Stage putting your firm in the
spotlight by highlightingbusiness owners and other
industry experts to help takeyour firm to the next level.
Hey everyone, and welcome toCenter Stage.
I'm your host, john Henson, andthis week we are focusing on a
crucial part of your law firmand one that can really impact
the ROI of your marketing, andthat is your intake team.
(01:17):
And, specifically, we're goingto talk this week about how you
can build an effective intaketeam for your firm.
And joining us to help us dothat is Chris Mullins.
She was on the show goshprobably I think it was probably
sometime last year, you know,just talking about the reception
role and that front end role,and so she joins us here to talk
again about building a reallyeffective intake team.
(01:40):
So, chris, thanks for joiningus once again.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it, John.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Of course, and so, for people who may not have
caught you the first time around, tell us a little about who you
are and how you do help lawfirms in this area.
All right.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
So it's chrismullinsintakeacademycom and
I'm known as the phone salesdoctor.
Primary focus area has beenintake for like 30 years now,
and I would say probably thelast 20 years.
(02:16):
It's also been attorneys andnegotiations and paralegal and
client care.
So what happened was throughall intake training that we do
in Bound Outbound, when managingpartners would sit in on the
class as they realized that alot of the skills being taught
were needed in other areas, sofor client retention.
(02:38):
So yeah, and our main focus isconversion and for clients it's
retention.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
Yeah, absolutely so, and I think when a lot of law
firm owners they're starting tothink about the different roles
in their company, they kind ofmaybe get a little tunnel vision
on it.
They kind of look at thingsvery rigidly.
Ok, well, my intake personthat's just another word for
receptionist and I think whenyou tell a lot of people like it
(03:08):
can also be kind of a salesrole, which sounds kind of
strange, especially for me.
When I first got into this Ididn't think of a law firm
needing a sales person in thesame way that maybe like a
company that sells physicalproducts would.
But you kind of say thatthere's a lot of in that.
So what does a sales role oreven a sales sort of approach
(03:33):
look like in a law firm?
Speaker 3 (03:36):
Well, the law firms.
They're spending huge sums ofmarketing dollars.
That leads to get into the firmeither by chat or web forms or
phone.
So if you're doing that, thenyou have a business that has a
profit and you have a bottomline, your responsibilities, and
(03:57):
so you're not going to spendthat kind of money if you don't
have a system in place toconvert.
And when you convert,converting is sales and it's
that simple.
It's that.
Yeah, that's what?
Yeah, I mean you can't get awayfrom it.
That's what it's at the end ofthe day, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah, and so I think a lot of law firm owners, if
they do see something as salesor even just kind of the leads
that they generate, they see italmost exclusively as inbound
sales.
They're waiting for the peopleto come to them.
Maybe they're doing somemarketing to try to get people
into that funnel, but generallya lot of them probably see it as
(04:33):
exclusively inbound sales.
But there is an element ofoutbound sales as well for a law
firm, and so how can a firm'sintake team make that happen?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
The outbound part, you mean.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (04:50):
Well.
So before I go there, though, Ijust want to kind of emphasize
that, yeah, inbound calls isit's inbound sales.
So we ask them to call us.
They called and so that'sselling.
We wanna convert them.
It's not a done deal justbecause they called, and so the
outbound part is chasing,because not everybody is gonna
(05:15):
say yes like right away justbecause they called you.
It's not a guarantee.
And so you wanna have a processin place where you're chasing
which is picking up the phoneand so it's outbound by doing
that.
And it's not easy just becausethey called you initially,
because the moment they hang up,there's an emotional gap there
(05:38):
where we're losing them likeTikTok, tiktok, tiktok.
We're losing them and mostintake departments are not set
up to be able to do both inbound, outbound or have an outbound
team, because we just haven'tgotten there yet.
But the problem with that is ifit's 10 o'clock on Monday and
(06:01):
married and signed and we don'tcall her back to check in at 12
o'clock, we're gonna lose her.
We probably already did loseher, but we're gonna lose her.
And so outbound sales chasingthere's all kinds of different
ways to do outbound.
If you do in digital marketing,your leads are coming in not by
(06:22):
the phone, right, a lot of them.
Well, you definitely need to bepretty aggressive with those,
and those are even harder tocall.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you
because I mean, I've even seenthis kind of in my own personal
experience.
I've told this story a bunch oftimes when I got a traffic
ticket and I was looking for alaw firm to handle it.
A lot of people, when theydon't have an immediate need, a
lot of people are gonna besending out feelers to different
(06:51):
law firms.
They're gonna fill out webforms on several different law
firm websites and it's usuallynot 100% of the time, but the
majority of the time it'susually the law firm that
reaches out first to respond to.
That is the one that ends upgetting that business Right.
Speed to lead.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
It's all about speed to lead and you gotta keep in
mind something that prospectiveclients that are reaching out to
your firm, however they got in,whatever the entry point, is
their consumers like you and me,and we all shop right, If I'm
gonna go buy a car, I'm notgonna call one dealership.
We all shop.
If I'm looking for a roofer,I'm gonna call a few of them and
(07:33):
it's whoever handles me thebest over the phone and acts
like they're happy and they wanttheir business and they ask for
the sale.
They're the ones that are gonnawin.
I think the number is I don'tknow if this is 100% accurate
still, because it might be alittle bit old but I believe
it's like prospective clientsare gonna call three to five of
your competitors before theymake their phone.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and especially for us as a
marketing company, like thestuff that we do will only get
you to a certain point.
Right, at some point webasically have to hand off the
responsibility to you.
Like it's our job to drivepeople to your website and it's
our job to design a website thatgets people to fill out that
(08:16):
form, but once they do that,there's really not much else we
could do.
And so when you talk about theROI of your marketing and you
talk about, well, oh well, myfirm hasn't grown or I'm not
getting enough clients, it's.
I think this is one of theplaces where you have to look at
where sometimes it's not thatthe marketing was doing
(08:38):
something wrong.
Speaker 3 (08:39):
It's that you lost out on a lot of these
opportunities because youweren't quick enough or you
didn't have someone on your teamreaching out quick enough to
get these people to actuallybook that consultation and sign
that retainer 100% and I wouldrecommend that marketing
companies what they do is theyadd to their checklist, you know
(09:00):
, when they work with a new, oreven before they sign up another
law firm and say this is theaudit we're gonna do to diagnose
how things are going, before wecan say not just you say, I do,
but before I say I do and we'regonna check intake.
And because for a marketingagency, you wanna make sure, you
(09:21):
wanna know that they have ateam and they can convert, and
if they don't, it doesn't evenmake sense because they're just
gonna come back to you and belike well, why aren't we
converting?
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.
Let's then imagine that, okay,we have a law firm here, they
have someone in this intake role.
What are just some basic skillsor even like personality traits
or characteristics or somethingthat make that an intake
specialist that a law firm needsto have.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
They need to be okay with the S word sales and the S
word script.
They've got to be okay withthat.
And you know their mindset isthey need to like if you ask
them out of the blue hey, what'sthe desired outcome of your job
, what is it?
You want them to say conversion.
(10:16):
Most will not.
So you want them to have asales mindset.
You want them to obviously havea customer service mindset.
You want them to be able tohandle rejection.
You want them to be able tounderstand that their voice and
their tone and the cadence inwhich they speak has a big plays
(10:37):
, a big factor in therelationship game.
You don't really want to hirepeople that say I love people, I
just I love people and I lovetalking on the phone.
Because most people say thatthey're just they're looking for
a customer service job, notreally a sales job.
(10:57):
And so you want to dig a littlebit and because that's the
typical answer and you just wantto do a little bit and find out
what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
Yeah, they can be great with customer service, but
they also have to be okay withmetrics and scripts and goals
and monitoring and gettingfeedback and handling criticism
and having goals and, you know,really, really a very strong
focus on sales.
And if so, you've got to hirethose people.
(11:28):
Those are the people you have.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah Well, what's interesting me and I'm really
curious to get your thoughts onthis and how you coach you know
business owners on this.
You know in my experience, alot of really good sales people
have the communication skills.
They are able to establish thatrapport with people.
They're great talking withpeople and all that.
But a lot of them, I think,struggle with the details and
(11:56):
keeping those notes and doingthe metrics and all of that.
How do you, how do you coachpeople on trying to find that
balance or finding the rightperson?
Who can you know who has asmany of those skills?
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, I think, I think.
Well, one thing is I have neverknown A sales team in any
business that didn't havesalespeople that were always
getting in trouble.
So the salespeople, the onesthat are converting, and they're
really good at it, first theyknow it.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
But that's what they do well.
All the other stuff they don'tand they're in trouble a lot,
right, I mean that's.
I mean they're risk takers andthat's what they do.
They convert and that's whatyou hire them for.
So the other things that arereally important, I would say
good salespeople are good aboutmetrics because they that's how
they make their money.
Yeah, goals and all of that,but all the other things that
(12:54):
come with the job they need toalso do a good job.
But that's that's up toleadership and management to
provide the right training andacross the board, like period,
and we don't really have thebest onboarding processes really
in general.
So if we just take care of theonboarding process and do the
(13:15):
right thing and have a reallygood curriculum in place, that
particular individual, they'llbe OK because they have the
right training and then theyhave mentors and coaches in the
department that are helping thembecause we want them to sell.
Yeah so we got to take care ofthe rest for them right.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So the one other question I had just kind of in
this area when you are likeeither posting for this job or
you have this position in yourfirm, do you Advise that this is
like a commission based role oris it, you know?
Because, like for me, I hear asales position and someone's
doing, you know, having a salesphilosophy in mindset when
(13:58):
they're doing this.
I got to imagine then thatthere's some sort of you know
bonus or some sort ofstipulation in order to get them
to convert that.
Do you advise that this is moreof a commission based role then
, as an intake specialist, orwhat do you suggest?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
No, I wouldn't say this type of selling when, where
leads are being fed to youPretty, you know, high qualified
, basically because of themarketing, I wouldn't say it at
all, commission, but I I do feelthat there needs to be a bonus
(14:35):
plan in place, a spiff orsomething in place for and
everybody needs to have a goal.
So there needs to be team goalsand when the team is pushing
each other so that they can getthere, and then individual goals
and there should be some sortof monetary reward for that.
But don't make it easy, don't,don't, don't make it easy.
(14:55):
I mean, it's this is selling,and so you know, you've got to
know what their baseline is andthen and then just push them to
go to go further.
But yeah, I think that.
But not not all sit, not allcommission, not a hundred
percent commission Got it Okay.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, no, it's just.
It's just interesting because,like you know, and just me in my
mind and thinking about youknow, especially like how our
sales team is here and how, andI understand how that's
structured and so it's justinteresting kind of seeing like
how it might be different, evenjust for the clients that we
serve, and so, you know, it'sreally interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Yeah, yeah, I think like just have different levels
of Like a bonus for them.
So you know, everybody meetsthe goal, you get this, but when
you exceed, you get this, andthen maybe, and then even would
be great, is when they Getretainer signed, and these are
high level cases.
Yeah really big ones, thenthere should be a little bit
(15:51):
more for that.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree for sure.
And so, kind of on the otherside of that, you know, as as
the the owner, obviously theseare people that you're managing
and I feel like a lot ofmanagers.
When it comes to managing likethe intake role, obviously the
(16:14):
best way to kind of really gaugehow well of a job they're doing
is to listen to some callrecordings.
But I feel like a lot ofmanagers are hesitant to do that
for one reason or another Ihave no idea why because it's
such a great tool to providefeedback.
So what do you then advise?
What does that rhythm look likefor monitoring or auditing
(16:36):
calls?
What should you be listeningfor, or anything?
Because, as a business owner,you're going to really hone in
and say, well, I would have saidthis differently or I would
have done this differently onprobably every single thing.
They're probably not going toget it 100% right every time.
So how do you coach, then,business owners on how to kind
(16:57):
of set that rhythm up forlistening to call recordings and
providing that feedback?
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Well, so first off, you want to have an intake sales
manager.
You know it's all about selling.
So if we do what we tend to do,is we just have a great person
that can manage intake.
(17:23):
But they're not even hard to bethat sales manager.
They're not going to think thatway, and so that's just not
going to be natural, it's notgoing to happen.
And then you're going to haveall kinds of other problems.
So that's one thing.
The other is that whattypically happens is we get
great intake people and thenthat person gets promoted to
(17:48):
supervisor or manager, but bydefault it's only because
there's a hole in the departmentand things are falling apart
and we need somebody.
Oh, mary, she's been here longenough, let her go do it.
So now we have somebody that hasno idea what's going on, let
alone the call monitoring, andthe other thing that's happening
is that you have Mary, you callmanager, leader, supervisor,
(18:12):
whatever you want to call thatperson, and every consultant,
like Chris Mullins or somebodyelse, comes in and they say
everybody agrees.
Oh, yeah, well, yeah, we'regoing to listen to calls.
That's really, really important.
It never happens because Maryis doing a bunch of other things
, not even managing thedepartment reports all kinds of
(18:34):
stuff.
So now she's completely doesn'teven have the time to do it.
So the first thing is, top downagain, the mindset has to be
sales, sales manager, and letthe sales manager monitor calls
and help the team and coach them, let them convert, figure out
another way to take care of allthe other things.
(18:55):
I mean you can have anassistant, you can have people
that grow into other positions.
They start here.
There's other things that youcan do, but the most important
thing to conquer is the salesand the conversion of the
monitoring.
And then, as far as teachingusing the monitoring, one of the
best ways to do it would be toyou have the technology where
(19:17):
you I could be the sales manager, the intake sales manager, and
I could be listening to a calllive while you're on the phone,
john, talking to Mrs Smith, andthen I could there's a whisper
and I could just tell you whatto say when you're in trouble
and you're struggling, and MrsSmith won't hear it.
So that's the the primo bestright.
(19:38):
Do that with management bywalking around too, because as
you're walking around, yourpresence is there, that that
vibration of your presence isbeing felt by everybody.
It's going to motivate themmore, and then you can watch
their body language and seesomebody like like, do we have a
problem somewhere which helpswith the calls?
(19:59):
That's the best.
But if you can't do that, ifyou don't have that system in
place which I really don't getthat expensive anymore to do
that then just listen to calls,however you.
You can do it, whether it's atyour desk or you access the call
recordings and listen for toneof voice, listened for language
(20:22):
and words that are being used.
Does it sound like that intakespecialist wants to be on the
call or they don't want to be inthe call?
Did they?
Do they sound like?
Yeah, you know what I mean,mary.
So, yeah, I mean, you know it'sup to you.
Do they sound like that?
Or do they sound like you madethe right decision calling?
You're not alone anymore.
You don't have to look anyfurther.
I'm gonna send you the retainerright now.
(20:44):
Yeah so what?
What are you hearing and whatdo you feel as the monitor when
you're listening to the calls?
How does it make you feel?
Because you're a person tooRight, yeah, and are we asking
for sales?
Or are we just kind of likequestion answer, question answer
, question answer.
Yeah, we are we on our way toconverting from the beginning to
(21:08):
the middle, to the end, or arewe just stuck With question
answer, question answer,question answer and we're never
even gonna get to the rest?
Do we understand the person'sEmotional pain?
Did they?
Did they reveal what it wasbefore we even asked it and we
didn't listen for theopportunity and stop everything
(21:28):
and put the brakes on and jumpon it and talk about it.
Yeah so those are.
I mean, those are.
Those are some things that youreally want to think about.
And then they.
Then there's a formula that Iteach called PAS problem,
agitate solution.
It's not something that Idevelop, it's way old school.
So pass problem, agitatesolution.
(21:52):
Have you taught your intaketeam how to identify the real
problem?
It's not the car accident,right?
Everything that's unfolding,how the life is falling apart.
Specifically, I used to take mymother to chemo every Tuesday
morning and now I can't.
Now there's nobody else becauseI don't have a car and she's
not growing chemo.
Yeah, and when they identifythe problem, did they agitate it
(22:15):
and Repeat it back and instillsome urgency?
And then did they solve it?
Yeah, I said in a retainer.
So those are like the thingsyou want to think about.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah, and then one final thing that when I ask you
about you know, because I know alot of our audience Probably
utilizes this as a vendor butlike some of these receptionist
companies out there who you knowhave the virtual receptionist,
Do you have any experience inworking with them on behalf of a
law firm?
(22:46):
Or have you coached Any lawfirm owners on how to work with
a vendor like that?
Or do you really just preferSomeone who's in-house and in
that position?
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Well.
So we're always coaching thelaw firm on how to Communicate
and work and build a partnershipand a relationship with the
call centers.
I mean we're teaching themthey're your team.
Here's how you have to act Withthem, hold them accountable.
So that's that.
(23:18):
I 100% believe that it's betterfor your law firm to have your
own team.
I Mean you're gonna, you'regonna get much more with your
own team.
Then you are with a call centerthat it's working with the
gazillion law firms.
I mean they can't they can'treally dedicate themselves to
you, but your own team can.
So I highly recommend your ownteam.
(23:39):
I highly recommend hiringvirtual and have your own
Virtual call center, if you will.
Your own virtual.
It takes sales team 24-7, 365days of the year.
People have accidents and haveDOI and criminal issues and
everything at one in the morning, and three of them.
(24:00):
These things happen.
So so just do it.
And it's also a lot moreinexpensive Than it is to have a
call center.
You know somebody else's callcenter.
That's the way to go 100%, butit's a last last, last resort.
Okay, maybe you need to havethe call center, maybe for an
(24:20):
emergency backup, but you haveto treat them like they're your
team and listen to those callsand hold them accountable.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
Awesome.
Well, how can people learn moreabout you and intake Academy
and in all the ways that youhelp?
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Right, you can go to intake Academy comm, you can
email Chris at intake Academycomm and you can opt in to
download my book for free whenyou go to intake Academy comm
and you'll get a couple of greatarticles and You'll also
receive our weekly Mondaymorning email stimulator.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Awesome.
Yeah, I mean, I know that youhave a ton of great resources.
You know especially dedicatedlawyers.
I know you've contributed somereally great articles to our
website Just around just thatintake specialist role and so
definitely recommend checkingout everything that Chris has
going on there.
One final question for youbefore we wrap up here If you
had one final piece of advicefor our listeners, what would it
(25:19):
be?
Just one.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Listen to your calls and give feedback to the team.
That's it.
If you just do that one thing,your conversion will improve.
Little hinges swing big doors.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Love it?
Yeah, absolutely, and so youknow I can't recommend, you know
, just the ongoing coaching toyour intake team.
Enough, just because it makesthe stuff that we do look that
much better.
But yeah, that's just, that'sme being selfish there.
But, yeah, really appreciateyou coming on sharing all this
great insight, as always, andthat's going to do it for us
here this week.
If you have not done so yet,please leave a rating and review
(25:56):
for the show and that's it,chris.
Thanks so much.
You're welcome.
Thanks for listening.
To learn more, go tospotlightbrandingcom.
Slash center stage.
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