May 22, 2025 • 15 mins
This video provides therapists and counselors with a list of goals that the abuser needs if there is any hope of change. Most of the therapy provided for abusers misses some key elements that prevent lasting change. If you are in an abusive relationship, please watch to learn what your abuser has to do. #therapygoals #personalgrowth #toxicrelationship
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You'relistening to an audio recording
by Change My Relationship,featuring licensed marriage
and family therapistand author Karla Downing.
These audios are designedto provide you
with practical solutionsbased on biblical truths
for all your relationships.
(00:21):
What would be some goals
for an abuserif you had a person in therapy
that is an abuserand you either recognize that,
or the person comes to youand ask you how to stop abusing.
I've actually had peopleemail me recently,
and since put some commentson some videos
(00:44):
asking me,how can I stop being abusive?
I love getting that question.
The first thing that you haveto overcome in changing
any kind of behavior is denialthat you're doing it.
So first, the awarenessthat you are doing it.
And second, the willingnessand the desire to stop
(01:07):
is absolutely essential.
And that gives youa very good prognosis.
So what would be sometherapy goals for an abuser?
The first thing isyou have to identify
the beliefsthat are underlying the abuse.
And this is often the onethat is missing from therapy.
(01:28):
Also from a lot of the staterun programs
that are offered to peoplethat are abusers
or who have a domestic violence,charge against them
when they're sent to thesedomestic violence programs
or, to where they're supposedto be learning about,
(01:50):
not being abusive.
You've got to lookat the beliefs.
If you don't changeyour beliefs,
you'regoing to continue to be abusive,
because you're going to continue
to believe thatyou have a right to be abusive.
So what are some of thosebeliefs?
Well, the most important one isI have a right to be abusive.
I have a rightto control people.
(02:12):
I have a right to control,
person that I'm in an intimaterelationship with.
I have a rightto control my wife.
I have a rightto control my husband.
I have a right to controlmy children.
I have a rightto control my elderly parent.
I have a right to controlmy workers.
People have to do whatI want them to do.
(02:34):
My wife has to do what I want.
My wife has to meet my needs.
My wife has to meet my demands.
My girlfriend has to doeverything I tell her I.
Women have to believe.
Women have to obey men.
Men own women.
I own you.
You have to do what I say.
(02:55):
I have power over you.
I can, I can tell you whento jump and tell you how high.
I mean, what beliefsare undergirding this?
You got to be honest.You got to be vulnerable.
You got a look at yourselfand and look at those beliefs
and be willing to say, oh,I believe that.
That's athat's something that I've.
(03:16):
My father believed that.
And I saw that modeled.
I saw abuse in my environmentwith my mother, abusers,
people who have been abusedeither become victims
or abusers, often,not all the time, but often so.
Or people
that have seen abuse say,I'm never going to be abused.
(03:39):
Never going to be abusedlike my mom.
I'm not going to be an abuserlike my dad was with my brother
and with me,
and then often find themselveseither going into
an abusive relationshipor becoming abusive,
doing the exact thing thatthey said they would never do.
It's just part ofhow we're wired.
When we've learned behavior.
(04:01):
So what are those beliefs?
What you've got again, a belief,
what you have a right to beliefis what guides your behavior.
It's under girdingyour behavior.
It gives you your scriptthat you follow.
And as long as you havethat belief in your mind,
(04:21):
you have a belief about womenthat women are, weak
or that womendon't have a right to say no,
or that women don't have a right
to stand up to you,or that children
don't have a right to say no,or that children have to obey.
Your children should be seenand not heard.
Whatever it isthat guides your beliefs
(04:41):
that set you up to be anythingother than healthy.
Anything other than, cooperatingand sharing power
and having goodwill toward the other person and
and giving, treating the personwith courtesy and with dignity
and and not demandingthat your needs be met.
(05:06):
The next thing you
have to do is you have toidentify the behaviors.
What do you do? That's abusive.
And I don't mean just
I don't just like, say,I don't treat her right.
I mean, you can start there,but then
you've got to get very specific.
What are they?
And in order to do that, you're
either going to have to workwith somebody that tells you
(05:27):
what those behaviors are,that helps you identify them, or
you're going to have to listen
to the personthat you're abusing.
Tell you what you do, which iskind of painful and hard.
But to tell you,you put me down.
You shoot down every single ideathat I give you.
You demand that I do things,and you don't take
(05:48):
no for an answer.
You don't let me explain myself.
You don't let meparticipate in decisions.
You tell me I'm wrongand my feelings are wrong.
When I try to tell youhow I feel. You tell me.
That's stupid.
You tell me thatI shouldn't feel that way.
You tell me that.
That I don't feel that way.
You tell me what I feel.
(06:09):
You tell me what I think.
You tell me what my motives are,which you can't possibly know.
You tell me
what I'm supposed to thinkand what I'm supposed to be.
You don't listen to me, okay?
You've got to hear that,or you've got to hear your
you'veyou've got a mindset of hostile
anger toward meor you undermine me. You.
(06:31):
When I say somethingwith the kids, you come in
and you tell the kids,you don't have to listen to her.
You don't have to listen to him.
You can do anything you want.Listen to me instead.
That'sundermining your discounting.
Me. And you're putting me down.You're ridiculing me.
You're making fun of me.
You'retelling jokes at my expense.
You're makingme feel like I'm this small.
(06:53):
You've got to literally
listen to this personand tell you,
you're playing mind gameswith me.
You're twisting my words.You're.
You're,
like, doing all of these thingsthat are making it out like.
Like I'm the one that's makingthings up and gaslighting.
But it's really you.
You'rethe one that's getting trying
(07:15):
to get me to doubt myself,or you're denying
that you did something.
You said something,and I know you said it,
and now you're denyingthat you said it.
You're telling methat didn't happen
or you're lying to me, okay?
You've got to be ableto hear this person tell you.
And it's hard.
(07:36):
Really hard.
Especially if your heart is open
and you're allowing yourselfto feel the pain
that someone else feels
when you're discountingand you're
or you're abusing themor mistreating them.
If you actually are opento that pain, it hurts.
And it's really easyin these times to get defensive.
You can say to the person,this is healthy,
(07:58):
I need to take a break.
I'll have to come back to this.
That'sa healthy thing to say, but
getting defensive,getting angry, turning it around
and blaming it on the otherperson, denying that you do it.
All of that is backin your old pattern,
so you got to identifythe behaviors.
You might also needto get a book on
(08:21):
why people abuse.
You might need to get a book on
specific abuse tactics.
Both of thoseare really helpful.
One of the ones I like and menaren't the only ones that abuse
okay? Women can be abusive too.
And there are men
that are abused in abusiverelationships with women.
(08:43):
There are grandmothers, mothers,sisters,
daughters, wives, girlfriendsthat are abusive.
So I don't want you to think
if I'm using a pronoun, it'sjust really awkward
to keep switching backand forth.
So but some of the booksthat I really, really like
that would help you to do this
is, LundyBancroft has a good website,
(09:05):
and he talks about whatyou have to do to change
just Lundy bancroft.com
and, his he's got a book thattalks about why does he do that?
And it gives you all the beliefsunderlying abuse.
And then, Patricia Evans book on
the verballyabusive relationships lists,
(09:26):
specifically all of the tacticsthat emotional and verbal,
emotional and verbal abusers use
that cause pain with the victim.
And those are a lot ofthe things that I just listed.
The next one is thatyou have to own the behaviors
and the beliefs.You got to own a meaning.
(09:46):
You say, yes,
I do those things.
I believe those things.
Yes, I do those things.
If you don't own them,if you continue
to deny that you do themand that they're there,
they're your behaviors and yourbeliefs, you will not change.
Okay.
So that defensivenessthat you have that we all have
(10:08):
has to be dropped.
You got to keep thatdefensiveness down.
Then you got to changethe beliefs.
You got to substitute them.
Basically,
I don't have a right to controlanyone.
I need to have shared powerin a relationship.
I need to have sharedcooperation.
(10:30):
I need to have goodwill toward the person
and the relationship.
What that means is that I don'twant to hurt the other person.
I'm not willing to do anythingthat hurts the other person.
And if I find out I have donesomething that hurts them,
I'm going to be immediatelyrepentant
and I'm going to beI'm going to want to change.
Hey, that's good goodwill.
(10:53):
You have to own them.
Then you have tochange the beliefs.
Like I said to something else,
replace itwith something healthy,
then change the behaviors.
First change the beliefs,then change the behaviors.
Behaviors.
Meaning instead of ridiculing,what do I do
instead of ridiculing you,I listen to you.
(11:17):
Instead of minimizing you,
I listen and I value you.
I, I take what you're saying
just straight.
I don't make it bigger.I don't make it smaller.
I just hear you, okay?
And I accept what you're sayingaccording to how important
(11:38):
you say it is.
I don't make fun of you.
I don't call you names.
I don't undermine you.
I validate you
when you tell me that somethinghurts, I tell you I'm sorry.
That was hurtful.
I can see that that was hurtful.
I can see that you're upset
if I don't tell you whatyour motives are.
(11:59):
So you change the behavior tochange them to something else,
and you change them.
Whatever it takes.
I don't carehow hard you have to work.
I don't carehow long. And usually.
Honestly, David Hawkinsof the Marriage Recovery Center,
he says it takes up to 2to 3 years to really change
(12:21):
abusive patterns, 2to 3 years of work.
So you're going to haveto put some time into this.
You have to put effort into it.
Probably going to need therapy.
but if you want to change, it'sworth it because what you have
is dysfunctional or unhealthy,painful relationships
where you're not having an open,vulnerable, intimate
(12:42):
relationship, you're just havinga power over relationship.
Or you can have healthy,intimate,
good relationships.
It's worth the change.
Then you've got to recognizeyour slips.
When you slip,you got to say, I'm sorry,
I just discounted you.
Or if the person says to
(13:03):
you, hey,you just discounted me again.
I don't like that.You promised not to do that.
Then you've got to beaccountable.
I'm sorry, I did. You're right.
I will continue to work on it.
I will make that up to you.
I will workeven harder on that and mean it.
Repenting
of the slips and recommittingto change,
(13:23):
doing whatever it takesto make sure that the new
beliefs and the new behaviorsare your new normal,
and that you are no longerabusive.
That is what it takes.
That is the plan for a therapist
who has a client in their officethat is abusive.
(13:44):
That is not somethingthat's done quickly.
It's somethingthat takes a very long time.
It's not recommended
that your therapist workswith a couple
when there's abusive behavior?
Because just by havingthe couple in there,
you are giving
validity to the behavior andthe complaints, of the abuser,
(14:05):
which is retraumatizingthe abuse victim.
So, I've got other videos
on thatif you want to listen to that.
So this is basically the stepsthat an abuser needs to take
to change.
So if you are trying to changeI have got some more resources
I could refer you to.
And you're welcometo write me at Karla at
(14:27):
Change My Relationship.comand take my classes.
They're not specifically
to help peopleto not be abusive,
but they definitely help youwith,
dysfunctional relationships,dysfunctional behavior,
dysfunctional patterns,and learning how to be healthy.
So, thank youfor watching this video,
(14:47):
and I hope you'll come backand watch more.
And I'd love to hear from you.
Thank you for listeningto Change My Relationship.
We hope you will subscribeto these podcasts
and share themwith your friends.
Karlawould love to hear from you.
She welcomes
ideas for a future podcast,as well as your feedback
on how the podcasts have helpedyour life and relationships.
(15:09):
You can email her at.
karla@changemyrelationship.com
For more information on
Change My Relationship and KarlaDowning's ministry,
including her books,studies, devotionals, podcasts
and YouTube videosvisit changemyrelationship.com.
You'relistening to an audio recording
by Change My Relationship,featuring licensed marriage
and family therapistand author Karla Downing.
These audios are designedto provide you
with practical solutionsbased on biblical truths
for all your relationships.
(00:21):
What would be some goals
for an abuserif you had a person in therapy
that is an abuserand you either recognize that,
or the person comes to youand ask you how to stop abusing.
I've actually had peopleemail me recently,
and since put some commentson some videos
(00:44):
asking me,how can I stop being abusive?
I love getting that question.
The first thing that you haveto overcome in changing
any kind of behavior is denialthat you're doing it.
So first, the awarenessthat you are doing it.
And second, the willingnessand the desire to stop
(01:07):
is absolutely essential.
And that gives youa very good prognosis.
So what would be sometherapy goals for an abuser?
The first thing isyou have to identify
the beliefsthat are underlying the abuse.
And this is often the onethat is missing from therapy.
(01:28):
Also from a lot of the staterun programs
that are offered to peoplethat are abusers
or who have a domestic violence,charge against them
when they're sent to thesedomestic violence programs
or, to where they're supposedto be learning about,
(01:50):
not being abusive.
You've got to lookat the beliefs.
If you don't changeyour beliefs,
you'regoing to continue to be abusive,
because you're going to continue
to believe thatyou have a right to be abusive.
So what are some of thosebeliefs?
Well, the most important one isI have a right to be abusive.
I have a rightto control people.
(02:12):
I have a right to control,
person that I'm in an intimaterelationship with.
I have a rightto control my wife.
I have a rightto control my husband.
I have a right to controlmy children.
I have a rightto control my elderly parent.
I have a right to controlmy workers.
People have to do whatI want them to do.
(02:34):
My wife has to do what I want.
My wife has to meet my needs.
My wife has to meet my demands.
My girlfriend has to doeverything I tell her I.
Women have to believe.
Women have to obey men.
Men own women.
I own you.
You have to do what I say.
(02:55):
I have power over you.
I can, I can tell you whento jump and tell you how high.
I mean, what beliefsare undergirding this?
You got to be honest.You got to be vulnerable.
You got a look at yourselfand and look at those beliefs
and be willing to say, oh,I believe that.
That's athat's something that I've.
(03:16):
My father believed that.
And I saw that modeled.
I saw abuse in my environmentwith my mother, abusers,
people who have been abusedeither become victims
or abusers, often,not all the time, but often so.
Or people
that have seen abuse say,I'm never going to be abused.
(03:39):
Never going to be abusedlike my mom.
I'm not going to be an abuserlike my dad was with my brother
and with me,
and then often find themselveseither going into
an abusive relationshipor becoming abusive,
doing the exact thing thatthey said they would never do.
It's just part ofhow we're wired.
When we've learned behavior.
(04:01):
So what are those beliefs?
What you've got again, a belief,
what you have a right to beliefis what guides your behavior.
It's under girdingyour behavior.
It gives you your scriptthat you follow.
And as long as you havethat belief in your mind,
(04:21):
you have a belief about womenthat women are, weak
or that womendon't have a right to say no,
or that women don't have a right
to stand up to you,or that children
don't have a right to say no,or that children have to obey.
Your children should be seenand not heard.
Whatever it isthat guides your beliefs
(04:41):
that set you up to be anythingother than healthy.
Anything other than, cooperatingand sharing power
and having goodwill toward the other person and
and giving, treating the personwith courtesy and with dignity
and and not demandingthat your needs be met.
(05:06):
The next thing you
have to do is you have toidentify the behaviors.
What do you do? That's abusive.
And I don't mean just
I don't just like, say,I don't treat her right.
I mean, you can start there,but then
you've got to get very specific.
What are they?
And in order to do that, you're
either going to have to workwith somebody that tells you
(05:27):
what those behaviors are,that helps you identify them, or
you're going to have to listen
to the personthat you're abusing.
Tell you what you do, which iskind of painful and hard.
But to tell you,you put me down.
You shoot down every single ideathat I give you.
You demand that I do things,and you don't take
(05:48):
no for an answer.
You don't let me explain myself.
You don't let meparticipate in decisions.
You tell me I'm wrongand my feelings are wrong.
When I try to tell youhow I feel. You tell me.
That's stupid.
You tell me thatI shouldn't feel that way.
You tell me that.
That I don't feel that way.
You tell me what I feel.
(06:09):
You tell me what I think.
You tell me what my motives are,which you can't possibly know.
You tell me
what I'm supposed to thinkand what I'm supposed to be.
You don't listen to me, okay?
You've got to hear that,or you've got to hear your
you'veyou've got a mindset of hostile
anger toward meor you undermine me. You.
(06:31):
When I say somethingwith the kids, you come in
and you tell the kids,you don't have to listen to her.
You don't have to listen to him.
You can do anything you want.Listen to me instead.
That'sundermining your discounting.
Me. And you're putting me down.You're ridiculing me.
You're making fun of me.
You'retelling jokes at my expense.
You're makingme feel like I'm this small.
(06:53):
You've got to literally
listen to this personand tell you,
you're playing mind gameswith me.
You're twisting my words.You're.
You're,
like, doing all of these thingsthat are making it out like.
Like I'm the one that's makingthings up and gaslighting.
But it's really you.
You'rethe one that's getting trying
(07:15):
to get me to doubt myself,or you're denying
that you did something.
You said something,and I know you said it,
and now you're denyingthat you said it.
You're telling methat didn't happen
or you're lying to me, okay?
You've got to be ableto hear this person tell you.
And it's hard.
(07:36):
Really hard.
Especially if your heart is open
and you're allowing yourselfto feel the pain
that someone else feels
when you're discountingand you're
or you're abusing themor mistreating them.
If you actually are opento that pain, it hurts.
And it's really easyin these times to get defensive.
You can say to the person,this is healthy,
(07:58):
I need to take a break.
I'll have to come back to this.
That'sa healthy thing to say, but
getting defensive,getting angry, turning it around
and blaming it on the otherperson, denying that you do it.
All of that is backin your old pattern,
so you got to identifythe behaviors.
You might also needto get a book on
(08:21):
why people abuse.
You might need to get a book on
specific abuse tactics.
Both of thoseare really helpful.
One of the ones I like and menaren't the only ones that abuse
okay? Women can be abusive too.
And there are men
that are abused in abusiverelationships with women.
(08:43):
There are grandmothers, mothers,sisters,
daughters, wives, girlfriendsthat are abusive.
So I don't want you to think
if I'm using a pronoun, it'sjust really awkward
to keep switching backand forth.
So but some of the booksthat I really, really like
that would help you to do this
is, LundyBancroft has a good website,
(09:05):
and he talks about whatyou have to do to change
just Lundy bancroft.com
and, his he's got a book thattalks about why does he do that?
And it gives you all the beliefsunderlying abuse.
And then, Patricia Evans book on
the verballyabusive relationships lists,
(09:26):
specifically all of the tacticsthat emotional and verbal,
emotional and verbal abusers use
that cause pain with the victim.
And those are a lot ofthe things that I just listed.
The next one is thatyou have to own the behaviors
and the beliefs.You got to own a meaning.
(09:46):
You say, yes,
I do those things.
I believe those things.
Yes, I do those things.
If you don't own them,if you continue
to deny that you do themand that they're there,
they're your behaviors and yourbeliefs, you will not change.
Okay.
So that defensivenessthat you have that we all have
(10:08):
has to be dropped.
You got to keep thatdefensiveness down.
Then you got to changethe beliefs.
You got to substitute them.
Basically,
I don't have a right to controlanyone.
I need to have shared powerin a relationship.
I need to have sharedcooperation.
(10:30):
I need to have goodwill toward the person
and the relationship.
What that means is that I don'twant to hurt the other person.
I'm not willing to do anythingthat hurts the other person.
And if I find out I have donesomething that hurts them,
I'm going to be immediatelyrepentant
and I'm going to beI'm going to want to change.
Hey, that's good goodwill.
(10:53):
You have to own them.
Then you have tochange the beliefs.
Like I said to something else,
replace itwith something healthy,
then change the behaviors.
First change the beliefs,then change the behaviors.
Behaviors.
Meaning instead of ridiculing,what do I do
instead of ridiculing you,I listen to you.
(11:17):
Instead of minimizing you,
I listen and I value you.
I, I take what you're saying
just straight.
I don't make it bigger.I don't make it smaller.
I just hear you, okay?
And I accept what you're sayingaccording to how important
(11:38):
you say it is.
I don't make fun of you.
I don't call you names.
I don't undermine you.
I validate you
when you tell me that somethinghurts, I tell you I'm sorry.
That was hurtful.
I can see that that was hurtful.
I can see that you're upset
if I don't tell you whatyour motives are.
(11:59):
So you change the behavior tochange them to something else,
and you change them.
Whatever it takes.
I don't carehow hard you have to work.
I don't carehow long. And usually.
Honestly, David Hawkinsof the Marriage Recovery Center,
he says it takes up to 2to 3 years to really change
(12:21):
abusive patterns, 2to 3 years of work.
So you're going to haveto put some time into this.
You have to put effort into it.
Probably going to need therapy.
but if you want to change, it'sworth it because what you have
is dysfunctional or unhealthy,painful relationships
where you're not having an open,vulnerable, intimate
(12:42):
relationship, you're just havinga power over relationship.
Or you can have healthy,intimate,
good relationships.
It's worth the change.
Then you've got to recognizeyour slips.
When you slip,you got to say, I'm sorry,
I just discounted you.
Or if the person says to
(13:03):
you, hey,you just discounted me again.
I don't like that.You promised not to do that.
Then you've got to beaccountable.
I'm sorry, I did. You're right.
I will continue to work on it.
I will make that up to you.
I will workeven harder on that and mean it.
Repenting
of the slips and recommittingto change,
(13:23):
doing whatever it takesto make sure that the new
beliefs and the new behaviorsare your new normal,
and that you are no longerabusive.
That is what it takes.
That is the plan for a therapist
who has a client in their officethat is abusive.
(13:44):
That is not somethingthat's done quickly.
It's somethingthat takes a very long time.
It's not recommended
that your therapist workswith a couple
when there's abusive behavior?
Because just by havingthe couple in there,
you are giving
validity to the behavior andthe complaints, of the abuser,
(14:05):
which is retraumatizingthe abuse victim.
So, I've got other videos
on thatif you want to listen to that.
So this is basically the stepsthat an abuser needs to take
to change.
So if you are trying to changeI have got some more resources
I could refer you to.
And you're welcometo write me at Karla at
(14:27):
Change My Relationship.comand take my classes.
They're not specifically
to help peopleto not be abusive,
but they definitely help youwith,
dysfunctional relationships,dysfunctional behavior,
dysfunctional patterns,and learning how to be healthy.
So, thank youfor watching this video,
(14:47):
and I hope you'll come backand watch more.
And I'd love to hear from you.
Thank you for listeningto Change My Relationship.
We hope you will subscribeto these podcasts
and share themwith your friends.
Karlawould love to hear from you.
She welcomes
ideas for a future podcast,as well as your feedback
on how the podcasts have helpedyour life and relationships.
(15:09):
You can email her at.
karla@changemyrelationship.com
For more information on
Change My Relationship and KarlaDowning's ministry,
including her books,studies, devotionals, podcasts
and YouTube videosvisit changemyrelationship.com.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.