March 2, 2025 • 43 mins
Join women's health psychologist and empowerment coach Dr. Zoe as she shares transformative insights on female empowerment and mental wellness. Learn how to reclaim your authentic voice and express yourself confidently without fear of judgment. Dr. Zoe guides women through practical strategies for setting healthy boundaries while staying true to themselves, and explains how assertiveness can enhance relationships rather than damage them.
Dive deep into women's ADHD, exploring why many receive late-life diagnoses and how executive functioning coaching can revolutionize daily task management. Dr. Zoe reveals how symptoms present uniquely in women compared to traditional male-centered diagnoses, offering hope and practical solutions for better cognitive management.
Key topics covered:
- Finding and amplifying your authentic voice
- Overcoming fear of self-expression
- Setting boundaries without guilt
- Managing ADHD as a woman
- Building authentic relationships through open communication
- Energy alchemy techniques for sustainable success
- Creating supportive networks for women entrepreneurs
Dr. Zoe is a licensed clinical and women's health psychologist in NYC. She specializes in treating women’s health and gender issues, life transitions, relationship struggles, and anxiety. She offers a women-centered, collaborative style of therapy for optimal growth and empowerment.
She helps women leaders embody their voice and transform their leadership and communication skills.
zoerapoportconsulting.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rose (00:00):
In a world that often tries to silence us, our voices
are our most powerful tools, butwhat happens when we struggle
to use them?
Today, we're diving into thejourney of women reclaiming
their voices, breaking free fromthe whispers and stepping
boldly into their authenticselves, Ready to unlock your
most vibrant, authentic self.
Your journey to radiantwellness starts now.
(00:23):
Welcome to Chat Off The Mat.
I'm your host, Rose Wippich,and I'm here to guide you on an
extraordinary journey offeminine healing, energy, work
and total well-being.
Get ready to be inspired byauthentic conversations with
leading women practitioners,wellness experts and holistic
healers who understand yourunique journey.
(00:44):
Subscribe to Chat Off the Matwherever you get your podcasts,
and let's create magic together.
Welcome.
Dr. Zoe (00:55):
Zoe.
Hi, I'm really happy to be here.
Rose (00:57):
And I'm happy as well.
Why don't you tell our audiencea little bit about yourself?
Dr. Zoe (01:07):
Sure, so I am a women's health psychologist.
I've been doing that for about12 years, and I also am a
women's empowerment, leadershipand communication coach.
It's a lot of words, but itreally is all the same thing in
terms of finding your voice,finding your agency and finding
your boundaries.
Rose (01:21):
Can you tell us more about your approach to helping women
set boundaries and communicatingassertively?
Dr. Zoe (01:29):
A big part of my approach, too, is actually
starting with your existingstrengths, because most people
women, anybody you're actuallysetting boundaries somewhere in
your life, but not everywhere.
So I usually try to come from aplace where you are comfortable
setting boundaries and buildfrom there.
But a lot of it is also lookingat why you're afraid to set
(01:53):
boundaries.
What are the fears around it?
Because most of the time itcomes from early childhood
experience.
That's the psychologist in me.
Your fears of expression, yourfears of setting boundaries and
your sense of autonomy come froma lack of that in early
childhood.
So we try to come at it from aplace where you are no longer a
(02:17):
child.
This person can't actually hurtyou.
Scolding is just not the worstthing in the world, even though
it feels it, Because a lot oftimes when you're trying to set
a boundary you're worried aboutgetting in trouble like a kid.
So that comes up for a lot ofus without us realizing we're
not actually in that positionanymore.
But I do also want to highlightthat it's normal, even if
(02:39):
you're so good at settingboundaries, to be afraid at some
point or have trouble at somepoint at setting boundaries.
To be afraid at some point, orhave trouble at some point, not
even know what your boundary isuntil it kind of hits a limit.
But yeah, speaking your truthis about saying no, I don't like
this.
Yes, I do like this, or I can'tdo this.
(02:59):
I'm at capacity.
So a lot of your boundaries alsohave to involve a lot of
self-reflection.
So it's an ongoing livingprocess in yourself and your
boundaries will change over timetoo.
Think about yourself as a20-year-old versus 30, 40.
(03:20):
What you like to do, yourlimits change, and that's okay.
But people around you might beuncomfortable with your changes.
It doesn't mean it's wrong.
It just means everyone has toadjust.
Rose (03:34):
Yes, really important and I think and maybe this is coming
from my own self-evaluation orawareness is that I'm worried
about being my authentic self orsaying my truth, sometimes
because people are going to saysomething like wow, you're
changed or whatever they maythink and observe based on their
(03:58):
perception, but I'm just tryingto be who I am and then you get
that feedback and it's almostcreates this little loop Like
okay, you go back into yourshell because someone said
something.
Dr. Zoe (04:10):
Yeah.
So that's another that's areally important piece that you
need to expect pushback when youset a boundary.
That's part of the process.
Unfortunately, it's not becauseanyone doesn't want you to be
happy or have boundaries.
People just don't like change.
(04:31):
Once you're a certain way to aperson, you're put in a box, a
category of being a certain way,and most people forget that
everyone else in the world.
You have multiple identities.
You're multifaceted.
They tend to pigeonhole you ina certain thing, like you can be
nice or assertive, but not both.
(04:53):
So when I work with you, orwhen I work with anyone, I'm
always using the terms andYou're nice and confident,
you're kind and have boundaries,it's all.
And Because you have so manyaspects to you and they change
depending on where you are, ifyou're with a friend that asks
you how you are, what you want,what you need, you don't
(05:16):
actually have to assert yourselfas much.
But if you're in a place wherepeople are trying to push you
past your limit, you do have toassert yourself.
So your needs of assertingyourself and communicating
change depending on who you'rewith too, and that's how you
have to be a bit fluid and knowyourself really well and get to
know the people around you.
Rose (05:37):
You mentioned, or I read, or maybe in our previous
conversation, assertive versusaggressive or assertive and
aggressive.
Can you define the differencein?
Well, maybe talk about thedifference of the two.
Dr. Zoe (05:54):
The word assertive has kind of gotten a bad rap for
women because we're socializedand taught and expected to be
very compliant, permissive,submissive.
In a way, we're expected to puteveryone else ahead of
ourselves.
So when a woman is assertive,they equate it with
aggressiveness.
But aggressiveness is actuallymore like bullying.
(06:17):
Think of it like that.
There's no room forcollaboration, there's no room
for feedback, there's no roomfor anyone else to have a voice.
Being assertive is actuallyrespectful to you and everyone
else around you.
It's communicating your needs,but there's still room for other
people to have a difference ofopinion or a different need.
(06:37):
So being assertive is literallyjust saying hey, I feel like Ty
tonight.
How about you?
That's an assertive statement.
It doesn't have to be more thanthat.
Passive is saying whatever youwant, I have no opinion.
Aggressive is saying it's Thaior nothing.
Is that?
Yeah, that's a very clear Tosimplify it at a very common
(06:59):
experience people have on adaily basis of choosing dinner.
Rose (07:02):
Well, we already said that this lack of being assertive or
creating boundaries can comefrom childhood, you know, not
exploring their voice as anearly on, but having maybe let's
say that there's women that areaggressive on the other end of
the spectrum.
Does that come from?
What does that come from?
Dr. Zoe (07:21):
It's honestly the same thing but it manifests
differently.
So, say, you're in a householdwith a lot of people coming at
you or it's hard to get yourvoice heard, you, instead of
becoming passive, you becomeaggressive.
So it's two sides of the samecoin, really, of not being able
to be heard.
But some people tend to go thepassive route and some people
(07:42):
might go the aggressive route.
When I work with women who aremore on the aggressive side,
there are also a lot of times infields pretty male dominated
and feel that they have to matchthe tone around them to be
heard.
And, just like in a family, ifpeople are very loud, some
people will kind of shrink inand say it's not worth it and
(08:03):
I'm just going to stay quiet.
And some people will match thatenergy and become more
aggressive and loud and feellike they can't collaborate
because or they can't be firmlyin the assertive but respectful
range because they're not hurt.
Rose (08:19):
How do you help women balance this assertiveness and
empowerment with the societalexpectations often placed on
women to be nurturing andaccommodating?
You help women balance thisassertiveness and empowerment
with the societal expectationsoften placed on women to be
nurturing and accommodating.
Dr. Zoe (08:28):
We go through.
What is their ideal way ofbeing in the world, who do they
respect?
Also, I come up with I try tohave people come up with who
they admire, who's a model ofhow they want to be.
So you know you're not reallyreinventing the wheel, but who
do you find, who makes you feelempowered and what makes you
(08:51):
feel empowered, and also reallyacknowledging that societal
expectations come from a placeof keeping women complacent and
compliant and that they're notin our best interests and that
they come from years and decadesand a lifetime of patriarchy,
which, again, does not have tobe the way it is.
(09:12):
Just because someone expectssomething of you doesn't mean
it's you, and that's the samething of finding your true voice
, your true self, what otherpeople want from you.
It doesn't mean you have to giveit to them and it doesn't mean
you have to give it to them andit doesn't mean that's who you
are.
So you have to find and workand build that inner strength to
(09:32):
fight back and also handle andstay resilient in the face of
pushback and the fact thatpeople might not like what you
have to say and that noteveryone is going to like you.
Honestly, that's one of thebiggest challenges I see women
have is that they don't wantpeople.
They want everyone to like them, to the point where they don't
(09:54):
actually ask themselves if theylike someone else or if they
like what's happening.
They're just trying to be likedand be nice, but all that does
is make people take advantage ofyou more and more.
So societal just because it'sthe way something's been done
doesn't mean it's the way it hasto stay.
I mean that's how progresshappens, that's how
(10:15):
transformation happens withchange but it could be hard
because it's very hard.
Yes, yes, yeah, I was gonna ask.
Rose (10:23):
Well, first I was gonna ask can a person change?
Obviously they can, but ittakes time.
But I think the hardest thingdo you find that, though?
I think you said this is thehardest thing is that being
being resilient and knowing thatnot everyone is going to like
you.
Someone said that to me onceand I've gone through my life
Like I want everyone to like meand I try to be nice to everyone
(10:43):
, and someone said to me noteveryone's going to like you,
and to me it was like the likethe mic drop.
Dr. Zoe (10:48):
I'm like Someone liking you just isn't the most
important thing.
Liking doesn't mean respect.
Either it's not the same thingor the idea of liking isn't even
maybe what we think of it assomeone actually liking you,
wanting to spend time with you,someone might you think like you
only because they find you easyto manage and get along with.
(11:11):
That's not an authenticrelationship at all.
So if you want an authenticrelationship that involves more
back and forth, evenconfrontation which is not a
dirty word, and actually I did ablog and a live on why
confrontation is good forrelationships, right.
If there's no true discussionof back and forth which is
(11:34):
essentially what a confrontationis, a discussion there's no
authenticity.
But I know it's really hard tochange, but it is absolutely
possible.
I've been doing it for womenwith years.
It's my favorite thing whensomeone says you helped me find
my voice.
I'm not being taken advantageof in my relationships.
I asked for a raise at work.
(11:54):
There's so many ways this helpsyou.
Rose (11:57):
Right, wow, is there a certain age group that you find
struggles with this the most?
Dr. Zoe (12:07):
Honestly, no, because even as societal expectations
change and it might be easiernow to be vocal and you can find
community online, it stillstems from your early childhood.
So everyone's family dynamicscome from a different place, or
they may be able to speak aboutwork but not at home, or vice
(12:28):
versa.
So I really see this across theage range.
My ideal clients that I workwith are usually aged like 30 to
50, but I have so many peopletransitioning from home to
college that also struggle tofind their boundaries.
That's a transitional stage inlife, right.
They go from being a child toyou're dropped in and expected
(12:50):
to be some kind of adultsuddenly, and that is a huge
time of self-reflection andfinding your voice and who you
want to be and going fromfriends of proximity to friends
of choice as well.
So that's a lot ofself-discovery and a lot of
navigating new kind ofrelational dynamics that you
might not have ever experiencedbefore.
(13:12):
In my therapy work, too, I workwith a lot of women who I try to
help them find their anger andconnect with it, because a lot
of times they tend to blamethemselves for all the failure
or wrongs things they considerfailures, whether it's a bad
relationship or a bad job oreven a bad grade.
The younger generation, I find,is so stressed about grades and
(13:33):
career and a little bit olderis more about relationships.
But when they can connect totheir anger and turn it from
blame to hey, there was anotherperson here creating this
dynamic and I participated, butI'm not solely to blame.
I feel like, as you're saying,the chakras like it opens up
(13:55):
their heart center, it opens uptheir voice.
Rose (13:57):
A lot of them talk about a flood coming out of anger.
Dr. Zoe (14:04):
I have a lot of people journal on these things with
some prompts and mindset workand ask themselves specific
questions that direct thingsexternally or whatever they're
struggling with.
And connecting with your angeris actually a really healthy
thing to do as a woman, becausewe tend to suppress it, because
we're not supposed to be angry.
(14:25):
Angry is bad, but it's reallyjust part of a full range of
emotions part of a full range ofemotions.
Rose (14:35):
How do we process that anger when you know, like, do we
yell at a pillow or you know,punch a pillow, yell, or maybe
go in a room?
Like you know, in my mindsometimes I I feel like I'm
punching a punching bag to getthat anger out.
You know, screaming, all thosethings are good right, all of
those things.
Dr. Zoe (14:50):
All of those things are fantastic.
I've done martial arts most ofmy life and I well, I actually
don't want to hit someone.
I love the feeling ofdiscipline and power, and
breaking a board with my hand isso cool, and actually for my
birthday this year, I'm going togo to a smash room that's why
(15:11):
they have those, so we can goand smash stuff, yeah.
Yeah, because there's nothingwrong with anger as long as it's
directed the right way andprocessed.
You know it's not meant to beeliminated and I know a lot of
women think it should beeliminated and that it's just
bad.
But it again process the rightway, express the right way.
(15:33):
It's healthy.
Rose (15:37):
So I do Qigong, which works with our energy, which
there are movements that help torelease things within us, that
we want to do that.
And anger is associated withthe organs of the liver and the
gallbladder, which is thenassociated with also the fashion
, the tissue.
So when we're angry, we're,we're tense and we tense the
(15:59):
body, and so our body is notmoving the way it should be.
It's related to the wood energyand we feel very stiff and
rigid because we can't releasethat.
To release it is reallyimportant and I and yeah, yeah,
that to release it is reallyimportant, and I and yeah, yeah,
and I'm not saying that thatrelates to having a voice, but
in a way it is because you'rehaving this, you're expressing
yourself in a way that ishealthy for you.
Dr. Zoe (16:20):
Yeah, your opinion isn't.
Yeah, your anger doesn't haveto hurt anyone, but also say it
does upset someone, that's alsookay, they will get over it yeah
yeah, it's a real relationship.
You can be angry and repair.
So psychology, a basis ofpsychoanalytic therapy, is that
a lot of it is rupture andrepair.
We get failed, we misalign andthen we repair it.
(16:43):
And that's how relationshipsgrow and that's how you grow.
You make a mistake and thenapologize, acknowledge, repair
it, get stronger.
I mean, if you could thinkabout a relationship where there
was a rupture or a misalignmentand then you guys talked about
it, doesn't it make it strongerand better and you know each
other better?
Rose (17:03):
Yes, it does so.
Which leads me now segues torelationship like intimate
relationships, husband wifepartners.
Like intimate relationships,husband wife partners, wife wife
husband husband.
Sometimes one partner doesn'twant to talk and has a hard time
(17:23):
, and then you're trying to talkand you're trying to express
yourself and then you know noone's listening.
That's hard too.
Dr. Zoe (17:28):
Yeah, Very yeah.
I mean that's such a commondynamic where the women want to
talk and the men don't, or onepart it's not even women, men,
it's like people find each otherthat are, like you said, like
the opposite the compliment orthe opposite, right?
So you inevitably end up withsomeone who is less talkative,
less emotional, less than you ormore if you're on the lesser
(17:52):
side, and it works, especiallyin the beginning, because there
might not be room for both.
But over time you guys want tocome to an actual like
equilibrium or, you know, middleground, and it can become very
hard um any couples, therapistswill tell you to try not to get
angry at the person and use Istatements I need, could you,
(18:13):
you know, could we that kind ofthing, but you cannot control
another person, which is theproblem.
But yeah, that's.
I think that's reallyfrustrating.
It's really common.
Rose (18:24):
It doesn't always survive, unfortunately right and but at
the same time, don't be afraidto to make those high need.
I feel like I would like thosestatements.
Dr. Zoe (18:38):
Especially if you're with a low communicator they
don't know what you need.
Rose (18:43):
Right.
Dr. Zoe (18:44):
If you don't say anything, they'll think
everything's fine becausethey're fine with very little
communication.
But if you need more, you haveto say it, because they don't
need the same thing as you.
Rose (18:56):
Right and so okay, let's talk about women asking for help
.
A lot of women and youmentioned we talked you have a
toddler, right?
Yes, when women have youngchildren, they're in this bubble
, almost, almost right.
They're raising and you'reworking too and everything.
(19:18):
But we need help, we need toask for help.
We can't just assume we'regoing to do it, because then
there's this breakdown, somebodysuffers.
I always say something's got togive right.
So asking for help, that'sanother way.
You know we need to communicatewhen we need it.
Do you find that you work withwomen also who have a hard time
asking for assistance becausemaybe they feel?
(19:39):
that there's a weakness thatthey're projecting.
Dr. Zoe (19:43):
A weakness or they're most of the time they're worried
about feeling like a burden tosomeone.
Again, it's still this centeredon I don't want to put out
anyone else with my needs, withwhether it's I need a voice or a
boundary or anything like that.
Um, so I don't.
(20:03):
They don't really perceive itas weakness per se.
I get you know what.
That's not true.
It comes like.
Especially, motherhood changesthings.
People, you know, um, peoplehave a lot of guilt of not being
a good enough mom if they needhelp.
I don't see the same atpeople's jobs, necessarily, but
this societal expectation ofmothers to have this innate
ability to do it all, yeah, andnot need help because that's how
(20:27):
it was done in the past, butalso, it's not true, that's how
it was done in the past.
There were communities andvillages, literally.
So I see that a lot with newmoms and moms again of multiples
.
They're like well, other peopledid this.
I must be doing something wrongif I'm feeling overwhelmed and
there's so much more peopletalking about how no, it's just
(20:48):
super hard and it really sucksand if you don't have help, you
will feel like you're drowningall the time.
But asking for help, I think asa as a mom can make people feel
weak.
Rose (21:00):
I saw on your website.
Do you work with women in ADHD?
Can we talk about adult ADHDBecause that's kind of a new
thing, or maybe I feel it's anew thing because now people as
adults are getting diagnosed.
How do you go about gettingdiagnosed?
Dr. Zoe (21:17):
It's new in the media.
So, yeah, I ended upspecializing in it because I've
been working, I do neuropsychtesting, so I work with learning
disabilities throughout the agerange.
But I started getting a lot ofthese referrals for women in
their 20s, andirties saying thatnothing has quite felt right
(21:37):
and they have all thesechallenges.
But they were thought of asdreamers or low effort in school
, even though they, you know,did well enough and understood
concepts.
So women's ADHD oftentimes notalways, but more often than boys
is inattentive type, so itdoesn't have the behavioral
(21:57):
problems that get noticed inschool.
Rose (22:00):
Right, is it?
Dr. Zoe (22:01):
more like.
Rose (22:01):
ADD.
Dr. Zoe (22:03):
The term is the same.
In the past it might have beenADD, the DSM.
The terminology changes everycouple of years as they update
it.
So now it's just ADHD,inattentive type, hyperactive
type or combined.
It's like there's a slashbetween attention deficit, slash
hyperactivity, so you caneither have the hyperactive
piece or not, or have a littlebit.
(22:25):
So a lot of women end up justhaving the inattentive type,
where they're more internallydistracted.
So they get labeled as loweffort, not trying hard enough.
It's all in your head.
And then as adults, like no,there's still something going on
.
I'm not, there's not, I'm not,there's something wrong.
And there is.
There's something differentabout the brain, chemistry and
(22:46):
the development.
So that's why a lot of womenare getting diagnosed as adults
now because they were overlookedin school and with some
accommodations in school, likeextra time, refocusing help,
things like that they could havedone better.
But instead they internalizethe shame and assume, because
everyone's saying they're justnot trying hard enough, that
(23:08):
there is something wrong withthem.
As opposed to, um, a disorderthat has a treatment protocol.
Yeah, you know.
So I don't know if that's kindof what you were asking about,
but yeah, I was just.
Rose (23:21):
You know, maybe women out there that are listening don't
realize that there's adult ADHDor women ADHD.
Dr. Zoe (23:30):
Yeah.
So I do a lot of honestly,primarily ADHD testing now and
to get diagnosed itself youdon't need like a whole
neuropsych evaluation, but it'sit's.
What's great about it is thatit helps you understand.
Actually all of your cognitiveprocesses is your is.
Are you better verbally?
Are you better visually?
(23:52):
Working memory is the kind ofmemory where you're trying to
hold information in your mindand then reuse it without the
help of visuals or pen and paper.
There's processing speed, whichis separate from attention.
There's memory, which isseparate again from attention.
So think about it If you're notpaying attention to what's
being said to you because you'reinternally distracted, or
(24:14):
distracted by that noise overthere or something you saw at
the corner of your eye, that'snot a memory problem, it's an
attention problem because itnever made it into your memory
Interesting.
So a lot of people think theyhave a memory problem when they
have an attention problem.
Um, so yeah, I mean I I reallydo love working with those women
.
(24:34):
I actually also do now executivefunctioning coaching to help
people with create systems,routines for themselves, find
something that works to helpthem.
There's a big issue with adhdis initiation getting started
right?
People procrastinate, um, butthey also don't have a system in
place where they're actuallymaking it easier for themselves.
(24:55):
So things like you might notrealize, like something as
simple as washing the dishesactually has a couple of steps
leading up to it before youstart to wash the dishes.
So separating out tasks orsetting small amounts of time,
like for 10 minutes I'm going todo this, is much more doable
than I have to do all ofsomething which like an abstract
concept right.
Rose (25:16):
It could be overwhelming too exactly, exactly.
Dr. Zoe (25:18):
You know, like if I look at the kitchen and I see
like it's just covered, I'm not.
Rose (25:24):
I'm just going to walk away, as opposed to saying I'm
going to start in this corner,do that for 10 minutes and then
go do something else you knowreally, make it manageable that
really could help people in thecorporate environment too, or in
a job environment, right whenthey're working and they're just
because I know we're connected24 seven, so you're really not
stepping away from anything.
And if you don't check youremails I hear this often If I
(25:47):
don't check my emails, in 10minutes I could have a hundred
emails and then I don't knowwhich ones to go to or which
ones are priorities.
So it could be quiteoverwhelming, I think, for
anybody.
Dr. Zoe (25:58):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Rose (25:59):
Yeah.
Dr. Zoe (25:59):
And some of it's trial and error, like what works for
you might not work for someoneelse, but there's a lot of
options to choose from.
Same way, when I help peoplewith anxiety or pain, I've
worked with pain management tooand talk about different types
of meditation.
Especially with my ADHD folks,I tend to do an active
(26:21):
meditation like progressivemuscle relaxation, where they're
focusing on parts of their bodybecause just trying to sit and
let your thoughts flow, thatdoesn't work for them and that's
fine.
And I also recommend a guidedmeditation, so you're not trying
to come up with the actionyourself, you're just following
a guideline.
And with progressive musclerelaxation, you're breathing and
(26:42):
either tensing and releasing orrelaxing muscles as you go like
bit by bit, throughout yourbody.
So there's also activity whichhelps people focus on it and get
less distracted.
Rose (26:56):
You do a lot.
I'm thinking, wow, she's got alot of systems in place to help
a lot of people.
Dr. Zoe (27:01):
This is fantastic I mean it's all just tons of
happens, and I could never justdo one thing personally.
So yeah, it keeps developing,seeing what the needs are and
what, what really makes me feelgood and what kind of help makes
me feel good to give.
Yes, and you know I think amessage out there to, to people
(27:24):
who are listening, anybodythat's listening, men or women
that you know, if you feel thatsomething is off, don't be
afraid to ask and getprofessional help, because you
know what they need, based onright analysis, evaluation,
whatever it is well, we've alsolike as a therapist I mean, most
of your therapists out therehave seen it all and people
(27:49):
don't come to us when they'refeeling good, like a lot of
first sessions involve cryingbecause this is the first place
they've been allowed to expressit and I can't tell you how many
women apologize for crying in asession and you don't have to
apologize.
To be honest, I expected.
I didn't expect you to comehere when you're feeling good.
I expected you to come in whenyou were kind of on your last
(28:11):
leg and needed help and waitedprobably too long.
We all do it, right.
We wait too long.
So, yeah, they apologize somuch when they're crying, but
that's just the way you expressemotion.
There's literally nothing wrongwith crying and some people are
also just criers.
That's how their emotionsmanifest.
It doesn't mean you're weak, itdoesn't mean anything about
(28:31):
that, but yes, a therapist orsomeone like myself that's been
doing it for years.
we look at your patterns, welook at your experiences and we
adapt in the moment to help youfind what will work for you
honestly, not to push you to belike me, but to encourage you to
find your authentic voice,which is not going to sound like
(28:52):
mine or someone else's.
Encourage you to find yourauthentic voice, which is not
going to sound like mine orsomeone else's.
You're going to discover whatyou're comfortable and build it
up slowly so that you can feelconfident and assertive and a
sense of agency in all areas ofyour life.
But when you come in, we expectthat you're struggling and
that's okay.
Rose (29:11):
And be unapologetic, unapologetic, unapologetic.
You do not know, yeah, I, I saythat to people and I find
myself and catch myself sayingI'm sorry and I do it less, but
even I said something.
My son forgot something theother day when he went, I took
him back to school and I said,oh, I said to, said to him I'm
(29:34):
sorry, I texted it and he goes,you don't have to apologize.
And I thought, wow, I saidyou're right, he's right, I
don't have to apologize.
It really wasn't my fault andyou know, and uh, coming from a
20 year old, I thought that waspretty good, a very quiet 20
(29:55):
year old, but that's veryprofound on his part and it made
me feel really good I.
I want to ask you one otherquestion here, um, about women
supporting other women sometimesdoesn't always happen I think
it does.
Dr. Zoe (30:06):
I think it depends on the environment and the person
is obviously a much bigger push.
You know, in the online worldof women helping women and women
supporting women, I myselfprefer to, you know, work with
women providers and vendors andthings like that if I can.
But yeah, a lot of places womenare pitted against each other
in competition.
Certain environments where menare seen as more powerful,
(30:33):
capable, that tend to get thepromotions, women might want to
not align with other women,because if it's like a diversity
situation too, where there'sonly two women on the team,
they're going to be in directcompetition because they don't
feel they can both get promoted.
So there's a lot ofenvironments that really pit
women against each other, datingbeing one of the worst ones.
Rose (30:55):
Oh yeah, Let me think of that.
I haven't dated in a while.
Dr. Zoe (30:59):
Oh my gosh.
I haven't in a while either,but I remember it was like the
wild, it was like Hunger Gamesout there.
Rose (31:08):
Yeah.
Dr. Zoe (31:09):
And I did not want to participate in that.
I did not want to participatein that, so yeah, but there's a
lot of situations where womenwere are made to feel that they
are in direct competition asopposed to being able to be
supportive of one another.
Rose (31:22):
Yeah, but hopefully not as much now.
I think you're right.
I think that society is, orwomen are, starting to work with
women and understand each otherand support and help each other
grow and transform.
Dr. Zoe (31:36):
Yeah, I mean, I see that so much in the you know
like self-employed world.
I haven't, I've never been in acorporate environment.
I have worked for hospitals andthings like that.
But also, I guess, just astherapists, we're not really in
competition with each other forclients maybe, but honestly
(31:58):
there's enough clients foreveryone, and now everyone's
niching down to do reallyspecific things.
So it's so easy to collaboratewith someone who has a specialty
that I don't, and every womanI've met with and collaborated
with has been so supportive.
Rose (32:14):
So I really think in the self-employed or small business
world there's a lot of supportnow where maybe there didn't
used to be they're all women andit's really nice to see women
supporting each other andhelping each other grow, cause I
(32:36):
know that there's a lot ofwomen who are empty nesters, who
are changing their path andtrying to grow and and, and you
know, and it takes a lot ofcourage to do that and to really
get out there, and I think alot of the work that you're
doing helps them, becausethey're a little worried or
fearful or self-judging.
Dr. Zoe (32:53):
Oh yeah, a supportive group is changing.
Actually, I have a friendoverseas that works in
leadership and it's usually likea combined environment and I
focus specifically on women.
So she actually had theopportunity to work just with
women and she said it was amagical experience.
Unlike with the mixed groupsthat there was because women
(33:15):
leaders struggle with differentthings than male leaders because
of societal expectations,internalized gender roles,
things like that.
So not having to explainthemselves was a whole different
experience.
And that's what I love too aboutwomen helping women.
We don't have to explain whywe're struggling or why we're
having problems in this or whywe don't have to explain why
we're struggling or why we'rehaving problems in this or why
(33:35):
we don't feel necessarilycomfortable speaking up.
I mean, sometimes it's just asafety issue that men don't
struggle with on a day-to-daybasis walking down the street.
So not having to explainyourself and just feeling
completely understood in a groupformat is so I really love
women's groups.
Like I run a women's, aconfident communication group
(33:56):
and an empower a leadershipgroup, and it's so helpful for
women to see that other peopleare having the same struggles at
work, at home, whatever it is,and that they're not alone and
there's nothing wrong with them,and they all support each other
and help each other, and itmakes the process of empowering
yourself easier, actually.
Rose (34:18):
Yeah, I agree.
Tell us about what the work,the groups, the work that you do
, what your offerings are.
Great opportunity to talk aboutthat.
Yes, I'd love to, yeah, so.
Dr. Zoe (34:30):
I've done workshops in the past on assertive
communication and I'm launching,actually now, an ongoing
program that will probably beavailable around Black Friday,
to sign up for confidentcommunication and leadership.
And you know, all my marketingcoaches and things like that are
like leadership, leadership,leadership for professional
(34:51):
women and that's great, but as awoman, you really have to be a
leader in every aspect of yourlife.
You're making thousands ofdecisions a day for your family,
for yourself, for everything.
So while it's maybe geared alittle bit towards, you know, a
work environment, it's usableeverywhere.
So this is going to be a 12week small group program, no
more than 10 women at a time,because that's, I think, the max
(35:14):
where you can all really get totalk and really express
yourselves and support eachother and you're going to find
your authentic voice.
You're going to learn how tocommunicate.
I help people kind of get littletemplates for themselves on how
they're comfortable setting alimit.
We remove a lot of fluff and wework a lot on mindset why
(35:36):
you're fearful of it, but thenswitch it to what can you gain
from expressing yourself.
We all worry about what's goingto go wrong, but what can you
gain?
What would change for you Right, and that's that's where people
they stop before they get tothat point.
So that's, I'm really excitedabout that.
I do offer one-on-one coachingand therapy, but I'm trying to
(35:59):
launch the group because myone-on-one swats are so limited
at this point being a toddlermom and doing testing and
therapy and everything but Ijust love the group environment.
And so it's virtual right, sobecause you're in.
Rose (36:13):
New York City.
So everything's all virtual.
So you have a big reach whenyou're doing group.
Dr. Zoe (36:17):
Yes, yes, all virtual.
And yeah, with coaching it's abig reach, um, with therapy it's
limited to New Jersey, new Yorkand Florida, where I'm licensed
, um, but yeah, the coaching isanywhere in the world.
I've worked with women inLondon.
I did a collaboration withsomeone, united Arab Aramids.
I love the reach of coaching.
(36:39):
And then also I have a freeFacebook group where you can
just join.
It's growing, it's building.
It hasn't been my focus justbecause of so much you know
one-on-one work, but I'd love tocreate this community
collective even if you will ofwomen, supporting women in all
areas of empowerment, self-care,self-love, finding your voice,
(37:02):
everything like that.
Rose (37:03):
And that's on Facebook, and I'll put all the links.
You also have a few freebies asyou go on your website, which
I'll also put.
I know there's somedownloadable things which I
downloaded for eBooks and thingslike that.
Dr. Zoe (37:15):
It's a, so would they actually go together?
I didn't realize when I wascreating them how they go
together, but one's a freeempowerment journal with daily
prompts.
So, like every time I getmindset prompts, it's always in
different places, but so this isall in one downloadable PDF.
Each day has a differentempowerment prompt to help you
reflect, realign, and thenthere's a 30-day empowerment
(37:37):
calendar to take action.
So they actually, I think, workpretty well together, which
again, I didn't realize at thetime.
But I know some people love tojournal and some people just
want to take steps, so smallsteps every day to move yourself
towards an empowered life.
Rose (37:56):
Those small steps for people that need those small
steps right.
Dr. Zoe (37:57):
Absolutely and honestly , I recommend starting small,
because if you start too big,you tend to reinforce your ideas
that you can't do something.
It's like the idea of whenpeople set a New Year's
resolution that's just too largeto maintain right Inevitably
stop by February.
These small steps can be donedaily.
(38:18):
They don't.
They're not huge changes, butthey lead to big changes.
That's, I think, part of thekey is to start small and win.
Get little wins under yourunder your belt.
Rose (38:30):
There's a book that I don't remember who wrote it, but
it's called atomic habits and Ihave it.
Yes, no, I actually.
You know small, you know, andand and celebrate those little,
small steps and those small winsthat you do, because those are
all collectively, all the littlewins and steps will lead to the
big ones.
Is there anything else that youwanted to add or I don't think
(38:53):
so.
Dr. Zoe (38:53):
It's been a pleasure talking with you.
It's fun here.
Rose (38:56):
Yeah, it's you have so much to offer, and I really
encourage people to to find youif they are struggling with
finding their voice and or evenif they don't know, if they're
struggling with finding theirvoice because sometimes you
don't, because you're doing thesame thing all the time.
Dr. Zoe (39:10):
And yeah, and you're just ready, maybe for a little
change.
Like, yeah, just reach out, dmit.
I don't.
I share a lot of freeinformation.
It's not all about, you know,paying to work.
Like, come to the Facebookgroup, dm me, ask me a question.
I help other therapists, I helpwomen.
I've trained leadership teams,it's.
I just love helping women findtheir voice.
It makes me very, likeemotional when I've had a
(39:36):
success like that and I see thechange and I see someone setting
a limit and feeling better.
That's all I want for the world, honestly, I love that.
Rose (39:43):
Thank you so much, Zoe, for being here today.
Dr. Zoe (39:45):
Thank you, Rose.
Rose (39:48):
Thank you for joining me on Chat Off The Mat.
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(40:12):
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In a world that often tries to silence us, our voices
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(00:23):
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Welcome.
Dr. Zoe (00:55):
Zoe.
Hi, I'm really happy to be here.
Rose (00:57):
And I'm happy as well.
Why don't you tell our audiencea little bit about yourself?
Dr. Zoe (01:07):
Sure, so I am a women's health psychologist.
I've been doing that for about12 years, and I also am a
women's empowerment, leadershipand communication coach.
It's a lot of words, but itreally is all the same thing in
terms of finding your voice,finding your agency and finding
your boundaries.
Rose (01:21):
Can you tell us more about your approach to helping women
set boundaries and communicatingassertively?
Dr. Zoe (01:29):
A big part of my approach, too, is actually
starting with your existingstrengths, because most people
women, anybody you're actuallysetting boundaries somewhere in
your life, but not everywhere.
So I usually try to come from aplace where you are comfortable
setting boundaries and buildfrom there.
But a lot of it is also lookingat why you're afraid to set
(01:53):
boundaries.
What are the fears around it?
Because most of the time itcomes from early childhood
experience.
That's the psychologist in me.
Your fears of expression, yourfears of setting boundaries and
your sense of autonomy come froma lack of that in early
childhood.
So we try to come at it from aplace where you are no longer a
(02:17):
child.
This person can't actually hurtyou.
Scolding is just not the worstthing in the world, even though
it feels it, Because a lot oftimes when you're trying to set
a boundary you're worried aboutgetting in trouble like a kid.
So that comes up for a lot ofus without us realizing we're
not actually in that positionanymore.
But I do also want to highlightthat it's normal, even if
(02:39):
you're so good at settingboundaries, to be afraid at some
point or have trouble at somepoint at setting boundaries.
To be afraid at some point, orhave trouble at some point, not
even know what your boundary isuntil it kind of hits a limit.
But yeah, speaking your truthis about saying no, I don't like
this.
Yes, I do like this, or I can'tdo this.
(02:59):
I'm at capacity.
So a lot of your boundaries alsohave to involve a lot of
self-reflection.
So it's an ongoing livingprocess in yourself and your
boundaries will change over timetoo.
Think about yourself as a20-year-old versus 30, 40.
(03:20):
What you like to do, yourlimits change, and that's okay.
But people around you might beuncomfortable with your changes.
It doesn't mean it's wrong.
It just means everyone has toadjust.
Rose (03:34):
Yes, really important and I think and maybe this is coming
from my own self-evaluation orawareness is that I'm worried
about being my authentic self orsaying my truth, sometimes
because people are going to saysomething like wow, you're
changed or whatever they maythink and observe based on their
(03:58):
perception, but I'm just tryingto be who I am and then you get
that feedback and it's almostcreates this little loop Like
okay, you go back into yourshell because someone said
something.
Dr. Zoe (04:10):
Yeah.
So that's another that's areally important piece that you
need to expect pushback when youset a boundary.
That's part of the process.
Unfortunately, it's not becauseanyone doesn't want you to be
happy or have boundaries.
People just don't like change.
(04:31):
Once you're a certain way to aperson, you're put in a box, a
category of being a certain way,and most people forget that
everyone else in the world.
You have multiple identities.
You're multifaceted.
They tend to pigeonhole you ina certain thing, like you can be
nice or assertive, but not both.
(04:53):
So when I work with you, orwhen I work with anyone, I'm
always using the terms andYou're nice and confident,
you're kind and have boundaries,it's all.
And Because you have so manyaspects to you and they change
depending on where you are, ifyou're with a friend that asks
you how you are, what you want,what you need, you don't
(05:16):
actually have to assert yourselfas much.
But if you're in a place wherepeople are trying to push you
past your limit, you do have toassert yourself.
So your needs of assertingyourself and communicating
change depending on who you'rewith too, and that's how you
have to be a bit fluid and knowyourself really well and get to
know the people around you.
Rose (05:37):
You mentioned, or I read, or maybe in our previous
conversation, assertive versusaggressive or assertive and
aggressive.
Can you define the differencein?
Well, maybe talk about thedifference of the two.
Dr. Zoe (05:54):
The word assertive has kind of gotten a bad rap for
women because we're socializedand taught and expected to be
very compliant, permissive,submissive.
In a way, we're expected to puteveryone else ahead of
ourselves.
So when a woman is assertive,they equate it with
aggressiveness.
But aggressiveness is actuallymore like bullying.
(06:17):
Think of it like that.
There's no room forcollaboration, there's no room
for feedback, there's no roomfor anyone else to have a voice.
Being assertive is actuallyrespectful to you and everyone
else around you.
It's communicating your needs,but there's still room for other
people to have a difference ofopinion or a different need.
(06:37):
So being assertive is literallyjust saying hey, I feel like Ty
tonight.
How about you?
That's an assertive statement.
It doesn't have to be more thanthat.
Passive is saying whatever youwant, I have no opinion.
Aggressive is saying it's Thaior nothing.
Is that?
Yeah, that's a very clear Tosimplify it at a very common
(06:59):
experience people have on adaily basis of choosing dinner.
Rose (07:02):
Well, we already said that this lack of being assertive or
creating boundaries can comefrom childhood, you know, not
exploring their voice as anearly on, but having maybe let's
say that there's women that areaggressive on the other end of
the spectrum.
Does that come from?
What does that come from?
Dr. Zoe (07:21):
It's honestly the same thing but it manifests
differently.
So, say, you're in a householdwith a lot of people coming at
you or it's hard to get yourvoice heard, you, instead of
becoming passive, you becomeaggressive.
So it's two sides of the samecoin, really, of not being able
to be heard.
But some people tend to go thepassive route and some people
(07:42):
might go the aggressive route.
When I work with women who aremore on the aggressive side,
there are also a lot of times infields pretty male dominated
and feel that they have to matchthe tone around them to be
heard.
And, just like in a family, ifpeople are very loud, some
people will kind of shrink inand say it's not worth it and
(08:03):
I'm just going to stay quiet.
And some people will match thatenergy and become more
aggressive and loud and feellike they can't collaborate
because or they can't be firmlyin the assertive but respectful
range because they're not hurt.
Rose (08:19):
How do you help women balance this assertiveness and
empowerment with the societalexpectations often placed on
women to be nurturing andaccommodating?
You help women balance thisassertiveness and empowerment
with the societal expectationsoften placed on women to be
nurturing and accommodating.
Dr. Zoe (08:28):
We go through.
What is their ideal way ofbeing in the world, who do they
respect?
Also, I come up with I try tohave people come up with who
they admire, who's a model ofhow they want to be.
So you know you're not reallyreinventing the wheel, but who
do you find, who makes you feelempowered and what makes you
(08:51):
feel empowered, and also reallyacknowledging that societal
expectations come from a placeof keeping women complacent and
compliant and that they're notin our best interests and that
they come from years and decadesand a lifetime of patriarchy,
which, again, does not have tobe the way it is.
(09:12):
Just because someone expectssomething of you doesn't mean
it's you, and that's the samething of finding your true voice
, your true self, what otherpeople want from you.
It doesn't mean you have to giveit to them and it doesn't mean
you have to give it to them andit doesn't mean that's who you
are.
So you have to find and workand build that inner strength to
(09:32):
fight back and also handle andstay resilient in the face of
pushback and the fact thatpeople might not like what you
have to say and that noteveryone is going to like you.
Honestly, that's one of thebiggest challenges I see women
have is that they don't wantpeople.
They want everyone to like them, to the point where they don't
(09:54):
actually ask themselves if theylike someone else or if they
like what's happening.
They're just trying to be likedand be nice, but all that does
is make people take advantage ofyou more and more.
So societal just because it'sthe way something's been done
doesn't mean it's the way it hasto stay.
I mean that's how progresshappens, that's how
(10:15):
transformation happens withchange but it could be hard
because it's very hard.
Yes, yes, yeah, I was gonna ask.
Rose (10:23):
Well, first I was gonna ask can a person change?
Obviously they can, but ittakes time.
But I think the hardest thingdo you find that, though?
I think you said this is thehardest thing is that being
being resilient and knowing thatnot everyone is going to like
you.
Someone said that to me onceand I've gone through my life
Like I want everyone to like meand I try to be nice to everyone
(10:43):
, and someone said to me noteveryone's going to like you,
and to me it was like the likethe mic drop.
Dr. Zoe (10:48):
I'm like Someone liking you just isn't the most
important thing.
Liking doesn't mean respect.
Either it's not the same thingor the idea of liking isn't even
maybe what we think of it assomeone actually liking you,
wanting to spend time with you,someone might you think like you
only because they find you easyto manage and get along with.
(11:11):
That's not an authenticrelationship at all.
So if you want an authenticrelationship that involves more
back and forth, evenconfrontation which is not a
dirty word, and actually I did ablog and a live on why
confrontation is good forrelationships, right.
If there's no true discussionof back and forth which is
(11:34):
essentially what a confrontationis, a discussion there's no
authenticity.
But I know it's really hard tochange, but it is absolutely
possible.
I've been doing it for womenwith years.
It's my favorite thing whensomeone says you helped me find
my voice.
I'm not being taken advantageof in my relationships.
I asked for a raise at work.
(11:54):
There's so many ways this helpsyou.
Rose (11:57):
Right, wow, is there a certain age group that you find
struggles with this the most?
Dr. Zoe (12:07):
Honestly, no, because even as societal expectations
change and it might be easiernow to be vocal and you can find
community online, it stillstems from your early childhood.
So everyone's family dynamicscome from a different place, or
they may be able to speak aboutwork but not at home, or vice
(12:28):
versa.
So I really see this across theage range.
My ideal clients that I workwith are usually aged like 30 to
50, but I have so many peopletransitioning from home to
college that also struggle tofind their boundaries.
That's a transitional stage inlife, right.
They go from being a child toyou're dropped in and expected
(12:50):
to be some kind of adultsuddenly, and that is a huge
time of self-reflection andfinding your voice and who you
want to be and going fromfriends of proximity to friends
of choice as well.
So that's a lot ofself-discovery and a lot of
navigating new kind ofrelational dynamics that you
might not have ever experiencedbefore.
(13:12):
In my therapy work, too, I workwith a lot of women who I try to
help them find their anger andconnect with it, because a lot
of times they tend to blamethemselves for all the failure
or wrongs things they considerfailures, whether it's a bad
relationship or a bad job oreven a bad grade.
The younger generation, I find,is so stressed about grades and
(13:33):
career and a little bit olderis more about relationships.
But when they can connect totheir anger and turn it from
blame to hey, there was anotherperson here creating this
dynamic and I participated, butI'm not solely to blame.
I feel like, as you're saying,the chakras like it opens up
(13:55):
their heart center, it opens uptheir voice.
Rose (13:57):
A lot of them talk about a flood coming out of anger.
Dr. Zoe (14:04):
I have a lot of people journal on these things with
some prompts and mindset workand ask themselves specific
questions that direct thingsexternally or whatever they're
struggling with.
And connecting with your angeris actually a really healthy
thing to do as a woman, becausewe tend to suppress it, because
we're not supposed to be angry.
(14:25):
Angry is bad, but it's reallyjust part of a full range of
emotions part of a full range ofemotions.
Rose (14:35):
How do we process that anger when you know, like, do we
yell at a pillow or you know,punch a pillow, yell, or maybe
go in a room?
Like you know, in my mindsometimes I I feel like I'm
punching a punching bag to getthat anger out.
You know, screaming, all thosethings are good right, all of
those things.
Dr. Zoe (14:50):
All of those things are fantastic.
I've done martial arts most ofmy life and I well, I actually
don't want to hit someone.
I love the feeling ofdiscipline and power, and
breaking a board with my hand isso cool, and actually for my
birthday this year, I'm going togo to a smash room that's why
(15:11):
they have those, so we can goand smash stuff, yeah.
Yeah, because there's nothingwrong with anger as long as it's
directed the right way andprocessed.
You know it's not meant to beeliminated and I know a lot of
women think it should beeliminated and that it's just
bad.
But it again process the rightway, express the right way.
(15:33):
It's healthy.
Rose (15:37):
So I do Qigong, which works with our energy, which
there are movements that help torelease things within us, that
we want to do that.
And anger is associated withthe organs of the liver and the
gallbladder, which is thenassociated with also the fashion
, the tissue.
So when we're angry, we're,we're tense and we tense the
(15:59):
body, and so our body is notmoving the way it should be.
It's related to the wood energyand we feel very stiff and
rigid because we can't releasethat.
To release it is reallyimportant and I and yeah, yeah,
that to release it is reallyimportant, and I and yeah, yeah,
and I'm not saying that thatrelates to having a voice, but
in a way it is because you'rehaving this, you're expressing
yourself in a way that ishealthy for you.
Dr. Zoe (16:20):
Yeah, your opinion isn't.
Yeah, your anger doesn't haveto hurt anyone, but also say it
does upset someone, that's alsookay, they will get over it yeah
yeah, it's a real relationship.
You can be angry and repair.
So psychology, a basis ofpsychoanalytic therapy, is that
a lot of it is rupture andrepair.
We get failed, we misalign andthen we repair it.
(16:43):
And that's how relationshipsgrow and that's how you grow.
You make a mistake and thenapologize, acknowledge, repair
it, get stronger.
I mean, if you could thinkabout a relationship where there
was a rupture or a misalignmentand then you guys talked about
it, doesn't it make it strongerand better and you know each
other better?
Rose (17:03):
Yes, it does so.
Which leads me now segues torelationship like intimate
relationships, husband wifepartners.
Like intimate relationships,husband wife partners, wife wife
husband husband.
Sometimes one partner doesn'twant to talk and has a hard time
(17:23):
, and then you're trying to talkand you're trying to express
yourself and then you know noone's listening.
That's hard too.
Dr. Zoe (17:28):
Yeah, Very yeah.
I mean that's such a commondynamic where the women want to
talk and the men don't, or onepart it's not even women, men,
it's like people find each otherthat are, like you said, like
the opposite the compliment orthe opposite, right?
So you inevitably end up withsomeone who is less talkative,
less emotional, less than you ormore if you're on the lesser
(17:52):
side, and it works, especiallyin the beginning, because there
might not be room for both.
But over time you guys want tocome to an actual like
equilibrium or, you know, middleground, and it can become very
hard um any couples, therapistswill tell you to try not to get
angry at the person and use Istatements I need, could you,
(18:13):
you know, could we that kind ofthing, but you cannot control
another person, which is theproblem.
But yeah, that's.
I think that's reallyfrustrating.
It's really common.
Rose (18:24):
It doesn't always survive, unfortunately right and but at
the same time, don't be afraidto to make those high need.
I feel like I would like thosestatements.
Dr. Zoe (18:38):
Especially if you're with a low communicator they
don't know what you need.
Rose (18:43):
Right.
Dr. Zoe (18:44):
If you don't say anything, they'll think
everything's fine becausethey're fine with very little
communication.
But if you need more, you haveto say it, because they don't
need the same thing as you.
Rose (18:56):
Right and so okay, let's talk about women asking for help
.
A lot of women and youmentioned we talked you have a
toddler, right?
Yes, when women have youngchildren, they're in this bubble
, almost, almost right.
They're raising and you'reworking too and everything.
(19:18):
But we need help, we need toask for help.
We can't just assume we'regoing to do it, because then
there's this breakdown, somebodysuffers.
I always say something's got togive right.
So asking for help, that'sanother way.
You know we need to communicatewhen we need it.
Do you find that you work withwomen also who have a hard time
asking for assistance becausemaybe they feel?
(19:39):
that there's a weakness thatthey're projecting.
Dr. Zoe (19:43):
A weakness or they're most of the time they're worried
about feeling like a burden tosomeone.
Again, it's still this centeredon I don't want to put out
anyone else with my needs, withwhether it's I need a voice or a
boundary or anything like that.
Um, so I don't.
(20:03):
They don't really perceive itas weakness per se.
I get you know what.
That's not true.
It comes like.
Especially, motherhood changesthings.
People, you know, um, peoplehave a lot of guilt of not being
a good enough mom if they needhelp.
I don't see the same atpeople's jobs, necessarily, but
this societal expectation ofmothers to have this innate
ability to do it all, yeah, andnot need help because that's how
(20:27):
it was done in the past, butalso, it's not true, that's how
it was done in the past.
There were communities andvillages, literally.
So I see that a lot with newmoms and moms again of multiples
.
They're like well, other peopledid this.
I must be doing something wrongif I'm feeling overwhelmed and
there's so much more peopletalking about how no, it's just
(20:48):
super hard and it really sucksand if you don't have help, you
will feel like you're drowningall the time.
But asking for help, I think asa as a mom can make people feel
weak.
Rose (21:00):
I saw on your website.
Do you work with women in ADHD?
Can we talk about adult ADHDBecause that's kind of a new
thing, or maybe I feel it's anew thing because now people as
adults are getting diagnosed.
How do you go about gettingdiagnosed?
Dr. Zoe (21:17):
It's new in the media.
So, yeah, I ended upspecializing in it because I've
been working, I do neuropsychtesting, so I work with learning
disabilities throughout the agerange.
But I started getting a lot ofthese referrals for women in
their 20s, andirties saying thatnothing has quite felt right
(21:37):
and they have all thesechallenges.
But they were thought of asdreamers or low effort in school
, even though they, you know,did well enough and understood
concepts.
So women's ADHD oftentimes notalways, but more often than boys
is inattentive type, so itdoesn't have the behavioral
(21:57):
problems that get noticed inschool.
Rose (22:00):
Right, is it?
Dr. Zoe (22:01):
more like.
Rose (22:01):
ADD.
Dr. Zoe (22:03):
The term is the same.
In the past it might have beenADD, the DSM.
The terminology changes everycouple of years as they update
it.
So now it's just ADHD,inattentive type, hyperactive
type or combined.
It's like there's a slashbetween attention deficit, slash
hyperactivity, so you caneither have the hyperactive
piece or not, or have a littlebit.
(22:25):
So a lot of women end up justhaving the inattentive type,
where they're more internallydistracted.
So they get labeled as loweffort, not trying hard enough.
It's all in your head.
And then as adults, like no,there's still something going on
.
I'm not, there's not, I'm not,there's something wrong.
And there is.
There's something differentabout the brain, chemistry and
(22:46):
the development.
So that's why a lot of womenare getting diagnosed as adults
now because they were overlookedin school and with some
accommodations in school, likeextra time, refocusing help,
things like that they could havedone better.
But instead they internalizethe shame and assume, because
everyone's saying they're justnot trying hard enough, that
(23:08):
there is something wrong withthem.
As opposed to, um, a disorderthat has a treatment protocol.
Yeah, you know.
So I don't know if that's kindof what you were asking about,
but yeah, I was just.
Rose (23:21):
You know, maybe women out there that are listening don't
realize that there's adult ADHDor women ADHD.
Dr. Zoe (23:30):
Yeah.
So I do a lot of honestly,primarily ADHD testing now and
to get diagnosed itself youdon't need like a whole
neuropsych evaluation, but it'sit's.
What's great about it is thatit helps you understand.
Actually all of your cognitiveprocesses is your is.
Are you better verbally?
Are you better visually?
(23:52):
Working memory is the kind ofmemory where you're trying to
hold information in your mindand then reuse it without the
help of visuals or pen and paper.
There's processing speed, whichis separate from attention.
There's memory, which isseparate again from attention.
So think about it If you're notpaying attention to what's
being said to you because you'reinternally distracted, or
(24:14):
distracted by that noise overthere or something you saw at
the corner of your eye, that'snot a memory problem, it's an
attention problem because itnever made it into your memory
Interesting.
So a lot of people think theyhave a memory problem when they
have an attention problem.
Um, so yeah, I mean I I reallydo love working with those women
.
(24:34):
I actually also do now executivefunctioning coaching to help
people with create systems,routines for themselves, find
something that works to helpthem.
There's a big issue with adhdis initiation getting started
right?
People procrastinate, um, butthey also don't have a system in
place where they're actuallymaking it easier for themselves.
(24:55):
So things like you might notrealize, like something as
simple as washing the dishesactually has a couple of steps
leading up to it before youstart to wash the dishes.
So separating out tasks orsetting small amounts of time,
like for 10 minutes I'm going todo this, is much more doable
than I have to do all ofsomething which like an abstract
concept right.
Rose (25:16):
It could be overwhelming too exactly, exactly.
Dr. Zoe (25:18):
You know, like if I look at the kitchen and I see
like it's just covered, I'm not.
Rose (25:24):
I'm just going to walk away, as opposed to saying I'm
going to start in this corner,do that for 10 minutes and then
go do something else you knowreally, make it manageable that
really could help people in thecorporate environment too, or in
a job environment, right whenthey're working and they're just
because I know we're connected24 seven, so you're really not
stepping away from anything.
And if you don't check youremails I hear this often If I
(25:47):
don't check my emails, in 10minutes I could have a hundred
emails and then I don't knowwhich ones to go to or which
ones are priorities.
So it could be quiteoverwhelming, I think, for
anybody.
Dr. Zoe (25:58):
Yeah, oh yeah.
Rose (25:59):
Yeah.
Dr. Zoe (25:59):
And some of it's trial and error, like what works for
you might not work for someoneelse, but there's a lot of
options to choose from.
Same way, when I help peoplewith anxiety or pain, I've
worked with pain management tooand talk about different types
of meditation.
Especially with my ADHD folks,I tend to do an active
(26:21):
meditation like progressivemuscle relaxation, where they're
focusing on parts of their bodybecause just trying to sit and
let your thoughts flow, thatdoesn't work for them and that's
fine.
And I also recommend a guidedmeditation, so you're not trying
to come up with the actionyourself, you're just following
a guideline.
And with progressive musclerelaxation, you're breathing and
(26:42):
either tensing and releasing orrelaxing muscles as you go like
bit by bit, throughout yourbody.
So there's also activity whichhelps people focus on it and get
less distracted.
Rose (26:56):
You do a lot.
I'm thinking, wow, she's got alot of systems in place to help
a lot of people.
Dr. Zoe (27:01):
This is fantastic I mean it's all just tons of
happens, and I could never justdo one thing personally.
So yeah, it keeps developing,seeing what the needs are and
what, what really makes me feelgood and what kind of help makes
me feel good to give.
Yes, and you know I think amessage out there to, to people
(27:24):
who are listening, anybodythat's listening, men or women
that you know, if you feel thatsomething is off, don't be
afraid to ask and getprofessional help, because you
know what they need, based onright analysis, evaluation,
whatever it is well, we've alsolike as a therapist I mean, most
of your therapists out therehave seen it all and people
(27:49):
don't come to us when they'refeeling good, like a lot of
first sessions involve cryingbecause this is the first place
they've been allowed to expressit and I can't tell you how many
women apologize for crying in asession and you don't have to
apologize.
To be honest, I expected.
I didn't expect you to comehere when you're feeling good.
I expected you to come in whenyou were kind of on your last
(28:11):
leg and needed help and waitedprobably too long.
We all do it, right.
We wait too long.
So, yeah, they apologize somuch when they're crying, but
that's just the way you expressemotion.
There's literally nothing wrongwith crying and some people are
also just criers.
That's how their emotionsmanifest.
It doesn't mean you're weak, itdoesn't mean anything about
(28:31):
that, but yes, a therapist orsomeone like myself that's been
doing it for years.
we look at your patterns, welook at your experiences and we
adapt in the moment to help youfind what will work for you
honestly, not to push you to belike me, but to encourage you to
find your authentic voice,which is not going to sound like
(28:52):
mine or someone else's.
Encourage you to find yourauthentic voice, which is not
going to sound like mine orsomeone else's.
You're going to discover whatyou're comfortable and build it
up slowly so that you can feelconfident and assertive and a
sense of agency in all areas ofyour life.
But when you come in, we expectthat you're struggling and
that's okay.
Rose (29:11):
And be unapologetic, unapologetic, unapologetic.
You do not know, yeah, I, I saythat to people and I find
myself and catch myself sayingI'm sorry and I do it less, but
even I said something.
My son forgot something theother day when he went, I took
him back to school and I said,oh, I said to, said to him I'm
(29:34):
sorry, I texted it and he goes,you don't have to apologize.
And I thought, wow, I saidyou're right, he's right, I
don't have to apologize.
It really wasn't my fault andyou know, and uh, coming from a
20 year old, I thought that waspretty good, a very quiet 20
(29:55):
year old, but that's veryprofound on his part and it made
me feel really good I.
I want to ask you one otherquestion here, um, about women
supporting other women sometimesdoesn't always happen I think
it does.
Dr. Zoe (30:06):
I think it depends on the environment and the person
is obviously a much bigger push.
You know, in the online worldof women helping women and women
supporting women, I myselfprefer to, you know, work with
women providers and vendors andthings like that if I can.
But yeah, a lot of places womenare pitted against each other
in competition.
Certain environments where menare seen as more powerful,
(30:33):
capable, that tend to get thepromotions, women might want to
not align with other women,because if it's like a diversity
situation too, where there'sonly two women on the team,
they're going to be in directcompetition because they don't
feel they can both get promoted.
So there's a lot ofenvironments that really pit
women against each other, datingbeing one of the worst ones.
Rose (30:55):
Oh yeah, Let me think of that.
I haven't dated in a while.
Dr. Zoe (30:59):
Oh my gosh.
I haven't in a while either,but I remember it was like the
wild, it was like Hunger Gamesout there.
Rose (31:08):
Yeah.
Dr. Zoe (31:09):
And I did not want to participate in that.
I did not want to participatein that, so yeah, but there's a
lot of situations where womenwere are made to feel that they
are in direct competition asopposed to being able to be
supportive of one another.
Rose (31:22):
Yeah, but hopefully not as much now.
I think you're right.
I think that society is, orwomen are, starting to work with
women and understand each otherand support and help each other
grow and transform.
Dr. Zoe (31:36):
Yeah, I mean, I see that so much in the you know
like self-employed world.
I haven't, I've never been in acorporate environment.
I have worked for hospitals andthings like that.
But also, I guess, just astherapists, we're not really in
competition with each other forclients maybe, but honestly
(31:58):
there's enough clients foreveryone, and now everyone's
niching down to do reallyspecific things.
So it's so easy to collaboratewith someone who has a specialty
that I don't, and every womanI've met with and collaborated
with has been so supportive.
Rose (32:14):
So I really think in the self-employed or small business
world there's a lot of supportnow where maybe there didn't
used to be they're all women andit's really nice to see women
supporting each other andhelping each other grow, cause I
(32:36):
know that there's a lot ofwomen who are empty nesters, who
are changing their path andtrying to grow and and, and you
know, and it takes a lot ofcourage to do that and to really
get out there, and I think alot of the work that you're
doing helps them, becausethey're a little worried or
fearful or self-judging.
Dr. Zoe (32:53):
Oh yeah, a supportive group is changing.
Actually, I have a friendoverseas that works in
leadership and it's usually likea combined environment and I
focus specifically on women.
So she actually had theopportunity to work just with
women and she said it was amagical experience.
Unlike with the mixed groupsthat there was because women
(33:15):
leaders struggle with differentthings than male leaders because
of societal expectations,internalized gender roles,
things like that.
So not having to explainthemselves was a whole different
experience.
And that's what I love too aboutwomen helping women.
We don't have to explain whywe're struggling or why we're
having problems in this or whywe don't have to explain why
we're struggling or why we'rehaving problems in this or why
(33:35):
we don't feel necessarilycomfortable speaking up.
I mean, sometimes it's just asafety issue that men don't
struggle with on a day-to-daybasis walking down the street.
So not having to explainyourself and just feeling
completely understood in a groupformat is so I really love
women's groups.
Like I run a women's, aconfident communication group
(33:56):
and an empower a leadershipgroup, and it's so helpful for
women to see that other peopleare having the same struggles at
work, at home, whatever it is,and that they're not alone and
there's nothing wrong with them,and they all support each other
and help each other, and itmakes the process of empowering
yourself easier, actually.
Rose (34:18):
Yeah, I agree.
Tell us about what the work,the groups, the work that you do
, what your offerings are.
Great opportunity to talk aboutthat.
Yes, I'd love to, yeah, so.
Dr. Zoe (34:30):
I've done workshops in the past on assertive
communication and I'm launching,actually now, an ongoing
program that will probably beavailable around Black Friday,
to sign up for confidentcommunication and leadership.
And you know, all my marketingcoaches and things like that are
like leadership, leadership,leadership for professional
(34:51):
women and that's great, but as awoman, you really have to be a
leader in every aspect of yourlife.
You're making thousands ofdecisions a day for your family,
for yourself, for everything.
So while it's maybe geared alittle bit towards, you know, a
work environment, it's usableeverywhere.
So this is going to be a 12week small group program, no
more than 10 women at a time,because that's, I think, the max
(35:14):
where you can all really get totalk and really express
yourselves and support eachother and you're going to find
your authentic voice.
You're going to learn how tocommunicate.
I help people kind of get littletemplates for themselves on how
they're comfortable setting alimit.
We remove a lot of fluff and wework a lot on mindset why
(35:36):
you're fearful of it, but thenswitch it to what can you gain
from expressing yourself.
We all worry about what's goingto go wrong, but what can you
gain?
What would change for you Right, and that's that's where people
they stop before they get tothat point.
So that's, I'm really excitedabout that.
I do offer one-on-one coachingand therapy, but I'm trying to
(35:59):
launch the group because myone-on-one swats are so limited
at this point being a toddlermom and doing testing and
therapy and everything but Ijust love the group environment.
And so it's virtual right, sobecause you're in.
Rose (36:13):
New York City.
So everything's all virtual.
So you have a big reach whenyou're doing group.
Dr. Zoe (36:17):
Yes, yes, all virtual.
And yeah, with coaching it's abig reach, um, with therapy it's
limited to New Jersey, new Yorkand Florida, where I'm licensed
, um, but yeah, the coaching isanywhere in the world.
I've worked with women inLondon.
I did a collaboration withsomeone, united Arab Aramids.
I love the reach of coaching.
(36:39):
And then also I have a freeFacebook group where you can
just join.
It's growing, it's building.
It hasn't been my focus justbecause of so much you know
one-on-one work, but I'd love tocreate this community
collective even if you will ofwomen, supporting women in all
areas of empowerment, self-care,self-love, finding your voice,
(37:02):
everything like that.
Rose (37:03):
And that's on Facebook, and I'll put all the links.
You also have a few freebies asyou go on your website, which
I'll also put.
I know there's somedownloadable things which I
downloaded for eBooks and thingslike that.
Dr. Zoe (37:15):
It's a, so would they actually go together?
I didn't realize when I wascreating them how they go
together, but one's a freeempowerment journal with daily
prompts.
So, like every time I getmindset prompts, it's always in
different places, but so this isall in one downloadable PDF.
Each day has a differentempowerment prompt to help you
reflect, realign, and thenthere's a 30-day empowerment
(37:37):
calendar to take action.
So they actually, I think, workpretty well together, which
again, I didn't realize at thetime.
But I know some people love tojournal and some people just
want to take steps, so smallsteps every day to move yourself
towards an empowered life.
Rose (37:56):
Those small steps for people that need those small
steps right.
Dr. Zoe (37:57):
Absolutely and honestly , I recommend starting small,
because if you start too big,you tend to reinforce your ideas
that you can't do something.
It's like the idea of whenpeople set a New Year's
resolution that's just too largeto maintain right Inevitably
stop by February.
These small steps can be donedaily.
(38:18):
They don't.
They're not huge changes, butthey lead to big changes.
That's, I think, part of thekey is to start small and win.
Get little wins under yourunder your belt.
Rose (38:30):
There's a book that I don't remember who wrote it, but
it's called atomic habits and Ihave it.
Yes, no, I actually.
You know small, you know, andand and celebrate those little,
small steps and those small winsthat you do, because those are
all collectively, all the littlewins and steps will lead to the
big ones.
Is there anything else that youwanted to add or I don't think
(38:53):
so.
Dr. Zoe (38:53):
It's been a pleasure talking with you.
It's fun here.
Rose (38:56):
Yeah, it's you have so much to offer, and I really
encourage people to to find youif they are struggling with
finding their voice and or evenif they don't know, if they're
struggling with finding theirvoice because sometimes you
don't, because you're doing thesame thing all the time.
Dr. Zoe (39:10):
And yeah, and you're just ready, maybe for a little
change.
Like, yeah, just reach out, dmit.
I don't.
I share a lot of freeinformation.
It's not all about, you know,paying to work.
Like, come to the Facebookgroup, dm me, ask me a question.
I help other therapists, I helpwomen.
I've trained leadership teams,it's.
I just love helping women findtheir voice.
It makes me very, likeemotional when I've had a
(39:36):
success like that and I see thechange and I see someone setting
a limit and feeling better.
That's all I want for the world, honestly, I love that.
Rose (39:43):
Thank you so much, Zoe, for being here today.
Dr. Zoe (39:45):
Thank you, Rose.
Rose (39:48):
Thank you for joining me on Chat Off The Mat.
If you're ready to transformyour energy and step into your
fullest potential, I'd love towork with you.
As an energy alchemist, I helpwomen release blocked energy and
reclaim their vibrant essence.
Visit rosewipichcom to exploreworking together and discover
free resources for your journey.
Love today's episode, subscribewherever you get your podcasts,
(40:12):
leave a rating and share yourbiggest takeaway with me on
Instagram at Rose Whippich.
Remember wellness warriors yourenergy is precious.
Nurture it wisely.
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