April 26, 2025 • 31 mins
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What meaning do you assign to the seemingly random events in your life? A found dime, an abandoned stroller, a cardinal at your window — are these merely coincidences, or something more profound?
Hilary and Les dive deep into how humans function as "meaning-creating machines," constantly interpreting the world through personal filters that eventually form our life philosophies. Through captivating stories—including Hilary's moving experience of feeling spiritually guided to give found gloves to a street musician—they illustrate how the meanings we create can profoundly impact our emotional state and future behavior.
The conversation shifts to a more sobering yet equally fascinating topic: our interpretations of death. Following the recent passing of Les's father, he poses questions we often avoid: Where do our thoughts about death come from? Are they based on fact, opinion, or inherited belief systems? Most importantly, do these interpretations enhance or diminish our ability to live fully?
The hosts challenge listeners to examine whether their views on mortality have become rigid opinions defended at all costs rather than evolving understandings open to new evidence. They suggest that our reluctance to reconsider established beliefs might be our greatest obstacle to growth and happiness.
This episode offers a gentle invitation to self-reflection: Could changing how you think about death actually make life more meaningful? Listen now and join us on this thought-provoking journey that blends philosophy, psychology, and personal experience into a conversation that might just change how you view both life and death.
We hope this helps a little as you go through your day.
We would love to hear your feedback or questions.
We will respond to both in future episodes.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
but it really compelled me to examine my
thoughts about death where theycame from and what is the
meaning I put on death and wheredoes that meaning come from?
What is the philosophy thatI've received from others?
If I am this collection ofprograms, if my methods of
(00:32):
interpreting the world around mecome from my past and the
influences they come from pastsuggestions accepted, if all of
that led me to a place where, atmy present age, in my present
state of life, I am coming faceto face with the death of my
(00:57):
father.
Now, what does all that mean?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
This is Coffee with Hilary and Les a podcast about
the mind.
As hypnotists, we work everyday helping others to understand
themselves, their actions andthe choices they make.
Join us for a chat abouthypnosis and other ways to
improve your state of mind.
Okay, we're on the line,beautiful.
(01:24):
Well, look at that, the sun'spoking out.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, just as soon as we get on the line, it's like a
sign we should podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
A sign, yes, sort of like our idea for today.
Interpretation of thingsExactly.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Exactly idea for today.
Interpretation of things.
Exactly exactly nothing meansanything and everything means
everything and anything can meananything and the meaning is
what we bring to it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, it makes me think about.
I think I've mentioned thismaybe a year ago on the podcast.
I feel like I said it on thepodcast.
Um, I was somewhere, I don'tknow exactly, but either I or
(02:20):
somebody else dropped a coin Ithink it was like a 10 cents or
something and I saw it there onthe ground and I didn't think
anything of it because I droppedit or somebody else.
I watched somebody else drop itor something, and then the
person I think it may have beena lineup of some sort and then
the person a couple people backmoved up and then I saw them
(02:45):
bend down and pick up the coinand say to someone that they
were with look, I just found a10 cents Like this is spiritual
right.
And I thought in that momentthis is so interesting because I
would do the same thing, youknow, when I see a 10 cents
randomly.
But I got to see like a wholething play out there, um of
(03:10):
interpretation right from onecontrast to the other or maybe
it was spirit that arranged forthe dime to be dropped and then
the dime to be found yeah, no, Ibelieve it.
I thought I remember anothertime um, this is all over the
(03:33):
place right now, but that's okay.
I remember another time I wasdriving from work to home and
just sort of down the streetfrom my work, I saw this empty
parking lot and there was areally nice looking stroller
just sitting in the parking lot.
Don't worry, there wasn't anybaby in it or anything, I just
(03:57):
kept driving, but just thisstroller that was sitting there.
And what dawned on me issomething to the effect of you
just never know all thesituations that the universe has
set up for people, right, sothat stroller hands down.
(04:17):
I know it in my heart thatsomebody would have found it
that needed it, right, I didn'tneed it looking at it, I just
looked at it and had the idea.
But there was somebody outthere that needed this and it
was just sitting there for them,right?
And you just have no idea howyou are involved in the universe
(04:42):
giving to others.
You just have no idea howothers are involved in the
universe giving to others.
You just have no idea howothers are involved in the
universe giving to you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Um, yeah, like those gloves like the gloves.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh, my god, the greatest story of my life,
honestly, tell it.
Oh, okay, so, so, um, yeah, wewere in downtown toronto going
to symphony and we went to thekeg beforehand.
And outside the keg we'recoming out and there is like a
(05:16):
Dollarama bag and I look in theDollarama bag and there's a pair
of gloves in there.
It's kind of like one of thoseI can't remember if it was like
three sets of gloves on onething or one pair of gloves, but
anyway, I picked up the bag andI heard in my head you're to
(05:40):
give this to somebody.
And I'm thinking, well, whoLike who Looking around?
Who am I supposed to give thisto somebody?
And I'm thinking, well, whoLike who Looking around?
Who am I supposed to give thisto?
And I'm getting chills justthinking about this.
But anyway, we start walking tothe symphony, which is just
down the road, and I'm lookingat everybody who passes by.
(06:02):
This person, no, this person,no.
And we get to the symphony andoutside the symphony there's
somebody playing the guitar onthe street, just on the sidewalk
area, and of course this iswinter too, I should say.
(06:24):
So I heard you know you're togive the gloves to this person
and of course, there was alittle bit of fear in me because
I thought, you know, I justdon't go randomly up to people
and ask these questions Like, doyou want these gloves?
You know it's not somethingthat I'm used to doing, but
anyway, it was one of these likeyou have to do, this kind of
(06:45):
moments.
And I went up to the guy and Isaid, do you want these gloves?
I've got these gloves here.
And he said yes, and I gave himthe gloves of like this intense
(07:06):
, almost like this lovingtransaction.
Right, he was, um, happy or,you know, maybe surprised.
This person asked this.
But there was something there,this energetic transaction, that
was beyond, like, I just feltlike I was flying and right
(07:35):
after that I thought, oh my gosh, I want that all the time.
I'm going to open a soupkitchen, I'm going to be a golf
person, I'm going to be likeanyway, I didn't go down that
road specifically, but it wasincredible, that giving feeling
and it's you know, maybe I'vementioned this before on the
(07:56):
podcast this whole idea oflove's ripple effect.
It sort of is like that right,you're changing a moment in
somebody's life and you don'teven realize it.
I know that that moment, if anymoments, come up in my life
(08:18):
review, that will be it right.
What did you do for others?
Comes up a lot in life reviewsand I hope to see that again one
day.
Yeah, how does.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You know, our topic is a peculiar one, but it's.
I don't want to rush through it.
I want to start with this, thissimple idea that how do we
place meaning on things?
You know, where doesinterpretation and meaning come
from?
You know, somebody could justas easily say ah, you found a
(08:58):
pair of gloves, you gave them tosome needy guy on the street,
yippity-doo-dah, it's just.
It just sort of happened.
It's no big deal.
And yet, for you from the momentyou found them to right up till
the the moments after youdelivered them.
There it was, it was felt,experienced by you as almost a
(09:23):
quest, almost a life changingmoment for you and for the poor
guy sitting on the streetplaying his guitar, cold Right,
(09:44):
and to see that things havemeaning, that they mean
something about us, that theymean something about life, that
they mean something about theworld that we're in and we're
very quick to put meaning onthings.
In fact, to me, sometimes Ireally see that human beings are
meaning-creating machines.
(10:06):
We create meaning where itmight otherwise appear to be
none, and those meanings arevery, very personal I mean, it's
just me and the way I haveinterpreted it and what it means
to me but it can have such amagnum effect like a massive
(10:31):
impact on my emotional self, onmy higher self and on my future
behavior.
Right, my future behavior right.
(10:52):
If I start to interpret my world, my life, in very purposeful
ways, I interpret the world ashaving purpose behind everything
.
That dime fell out of thatwallet without that person
noticing, only because someother force behind it was trying
to create a meaningfulexperience for that person who
came along a few minutes later,who sees it as this miraculous
(11:16):
appearance of a dime and putstheir meaning upon it.
And that's what I, you know,that's what we do.
We put meaning on things.
And then where does that, youknow?
To me, it leads me to thequestion where does that meaning
come from?
Right, that meaning tends tohave themes to it.
(11:40):
You know, we tend to have thesame kinds of meaning on the
same kinds of things.
It starts to become a trend.
I mean, if we place meaning onthings repeatedly in a similar
way, doesn't it become aphilosophy?
(12:01):
This is my philosophy in life.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
This is the way I interpret life.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
This is the way I interpret what otherwise might
be called by others as randomevents which is everything,
really Everything's a randomevent and everything has meaning
to its causes, everything haspurpose to the dynamics that
(12:32):
made it so.
Yeah, I think that it's a greatquestion to ask yourself where
does my philosophy come from?
Where does my consistentlyinterpreted meanings?
Does that make sense?
(12:53):
Where is the?
There's patterns in the way Iinterpret things and the meaning
I place on things, and wheredoes that come from, and isn't
it?
really reflective of my deepersubconscious life philosophies,
and that's the stuff that justfascinates me deeper
subconscious life philosophies,and that's the stuff that just
fascinates me.
(13:13):
That's the stuff that I'll getlost for the next hour thinking
about, wondering how does itcome about and what does it mean
?
Because it can also just meannothing.
It can be, oh look, I found adime, another 10 dimes, and I
might be able to buy somethingat the dollar store, right so?
But I could just as easily saythis is someone on the other
(13:35):
side speaking to me, remindingme that they're always with me
and that they love me, yeah, andthat they're always going to
try to communicate with me, yeah, yeah, two very extremely
different interpretations ofphysical events in our world.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, sort of like a cardinal, you know, outside the
window.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Easily dismissed as happenstance, easily just
ignored.
I mean, how many things in ourlife do we ignore that we could
be interpreting as havingmeaning?
That they might actually havemeaning, depending on the depth
or the scope of what we'rewilling to acknowledge.
(14:27):
For many people, it's justabout what you see, what you
feel.
If it isn't physical, it isn'treal.
And there are others who saythere's, there's nothing that
happens in the physical thathasn't originated in the
non-physical right.
You want to be a Newtonianphysicist?
(14:50):
You know every action has anequal and opposite reaction.
You want to be a quantumphysicist?
It is the way I interpret whatgoes on around me that creates
the next thing that goes onaround me.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I like that Physicism .
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I like that physicist , I like that word.
I'm a physicist.
I'm a physicist when we, whereI really wanted to start.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Sure, throw me under the bus.
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, that's not what I mean.
In fact, I really love the waywe've come to this, because you
know, I said to Hillary a coupleweeks ago I wanted to do a
series of podcasts on death Holycrap.
A series of podcasts on death,holy crap.
One minute we're talking aboutall this beautiful
(15:55):
interpretation and dimes andmeaning and now Les throws out
the word death.
Right, death metal.
But we've gone through in thelast two months, the death of my
father, and it wasn't simpleand it wasn't fast and it
(16:21):
allowed us a lot of time tothink about death and to think
about the processes of death andthe processes, therefore, of
life, because you can't havelife, physical life as we know
it, without death.
(16:42):
Right, and it really compelledme, and I know it had the same
effect on a lot of people, andof course you too, but that's
not the meaning we put on it.
And so I look at the last twomonths of my father reaching the
(17:04):
point where, where he felt hethought there wasn't any value
left in his life, and embracingdeath and dying and leaving us
(17:26):
here, and leaving us here whileyou know we all hope, dream
(17:48):
yearn, speculate where he is andwhat's happened to him.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Just a reminder that we offer a wide range of
products and services that aregrowing every day.
Visit our websitepsalmhypnosiscom and check us
out.
If hypnosis interests you, signup for a free consultation and
let's chat about what you wantto do to improve your state of
mind.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And so for me, like the first thing I want to talk
about in death is just takingthe time, for, if you're
listening and for us, for thesefew moments, where does our
experience and interpretation ofdeath come from?
Is death something you'reafraid of?
Is death something that'snatural?
(18:29):
Is death something that needsto be avoided?
Is death something that needsto be resisted and fought
against?
Is death actually death?
You know there's so many waysof interpreting it and
everybody's got their own, andso to to just you know, as a, as
(18:53):
a listener, you know what doesdeath mean to you?
How do you interpret death andwhere does that?
interpretation come from?
What is your experience ofdeath?
What are your experiences ofpeople dying in your life, both
(19:20):
loved ones and absolutestrangers, public figures?
What are all those experiencesand what does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
and I would even go as far as to say do you think
that your interpretation ofdeath could change?
And if it changed, what wouldthat mean about you?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
would you want it to change and how would you want it
to change?
And.
I think for most people.
I want my interpretation ofdeath to be accurate right.
I don't want to be wrong, Iwant to be right about this, and
(20:22):
For many people it's a veryspeculative question because
they say well, you can't know.
I'm not sure that that's true,but assuming for a second that
it might be true, that nobodycan tell you what it is, then
(20:48):
you would be simply having anopinion um, then you would be
simply having an opinion.
It's my opinion that upon death,this is what happens and
therefore death means this.
And then again, knowing thatthese are all constructs in our
(21:10):
mind.
Right, going back to how Iinterpret this, as a function of
the way I interpret my lifephilosophically, it's a function
of the constructs that I'vecreated in my mind about this
stuff.
And if I say to myself I can'treally know, then what we're
(21:30):
talking about is an opinion, andthen if opinions are driven by
a desire to be right, thenopinions can't be permanent.
Opinions are nothing more thaninvitations to do more homework,
(21:52):
to do more research, to do moreinvestigation, to spend more
time with it, to think about ita while, to ask some questions.
Right, an opinion is notsomething to be embraced and try
to cling to.
An opinion is something to beexamined and changed.
(22:15):
They're meant to be temporary.
Unfortunately, what we tend todo is collect information
confirmation bias.
We collect information thatconfirms our opinions while
ignoring information that wouldcounter our opinion.
But wouldn't it be morestimulating in life to go out of
(22:38):
your way all the time to findinformation that contradicts
your opinions on anything?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, I think that's scary for some people, for a lot
of people, I think.
If someone finds informationthat contradicts their opinions
especially if their opinions areattached to their ego and who
they are, right, you're tellingme.
I need to change this.
This is who I am, this is who Ipresent to the world.
You know, I've thought thisforever.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
And that's one of the most powerful reframes I use in
hypnosis.
All the time, I am not what Ithink.
I am the thinker.
I can change what I think.
So what would be sufficientinformation, what would be
sufficient evidence for me tochange my opinion?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Absolute.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I tend to believe people never change their
opinion.
I tend to believe that peoplespend all of their time
collecting information toconfirm their opinions and that
when they're challenged, whenthey find themselves confronted
with overwhelming evidence tothe contrary, they just ignore
it.
They just ignore it, shut itdown and say to themselves well,
(24:06):
that can't be true.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, but I don't think that that kind of
rigidness is helpful no, it'snot, and I think it's if I can
go as far to say it's hurtful toyourself right in the long run.
(24:32):
If I can go as far to say it'shurtful to yourself right In the
long run maybe not in the shortterm.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Well, if your goal is to be right, yeah, you can't be
right if you're not open toevery bit of evidence that
presents itself to you.
Mm-hmm, and maybe rightness orthe correctness or the, the
correct idea is a long way awayfrom where you are, and you
(24:59):
can't get there withoutaccepting in certain bits of
evidence, certain bits ofinformation along the way.
Right, like to me, I have cometo believe that the only
unscientific thing you can do isignore evidence, and even in
(25:20):
science, we look at evidence andwe interpret it yeah, and we
put meaning on it, and everyscientist who's committed to the
scientific method goes througha whole series of steps where
they change their mind multipletimes as the evidence presents
different potentialinterpretations you at least
(25:43):
hope, they do that I think thatthere are a lot of true
scientists out there who do thatyeah, the ones who are public,
so that's a whole different idea.
The ones who ones who are outthere making money from their
ideas are gonna cling to theirold ideas because that's their
livelihood.
Yeah, the last thing they wantto do is say oops, sorry, I was
wrong.
You know those six books Iwrote.
(26:06):
Yeah, just ignore them, don'tbuy them anymore.
And you don't want to pay me tocome and speak to your audience
because you know I turned outto be wrong.
I think that, um, that thosearen't the scientists I'm really
thinking about.
The scientists that I'mthinking about are the ones that
are committed to discoveringtruth yeah as close as we can
(26:30):
come.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I wonder if there's any more information on what's
underneath the pyramids Squirrel?
Oh no, we were just joking,tyke.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Our dog's been chasing squirrels away all
morning.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But that's the truth of it, is it?
Hillary had a squirrel moment.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Pyramids- anyway, I think that the first step, if we
were to take a few podcasts toexamine the idea of death, is to
just examine what we alreadythink, what we already believe,
(27:21):
what, what our opinion alreadyis and ask ourselves.
Just how open are we tochanging that?
Is there value in changing that?
Is there a way, you know?
I would think that I start withsimple facts.
If I'm born, I'm gonna die notme thousands of people out there
(27:52):
saying shut up isn't it amazing?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I've thought about this isn't it amazing how we
don't usually go around everyday thinking about how you know
our demise.
Yeah, and if that was maybemore part of our thoughts, we
would maybe act differentlythere you go.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
That's where I'm headed oh that's where I'm
headed.
But where I'm headed is is areyour thoughts of death helpful
to you?
Right?
It's a fact that if you'rewalking around as a human being,
you're gonna die.
That's just inevitable.
So how can you examine whereyour thoughts of death come from
(28:33):
, where your interpretation ofdeath comes from?
And could you possibly have abetter one, one that makes
living better, one that makesthe choices you make while
you're alive feel and contributeto your life better?
(28:58):
How much does our thought ofdeath interfere with our ability
to live?
And so, is there a better wayto think about death?
Is it possible to think aboutdeath like you think about the
dime or you think about thegloves?
Can you put a meaning on deaththat makes life all the more
(29:24):
worth living?
Is your interpretation or viewof death today interfering with
your joy of life, with yourappreciation of others, with the
things that make life worthliving?
So ask the question where do mythoughts about death come from?
(29:46):
What are my experiences ofdeath?
What is my view of the wholething?
Is this helping me?
Is this making my life better?
Are these views?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
helpful.
And then it's.
You know, do I want to be rightor do I want to be happy?
I want to be right.
No, I'm not, screw happiness.
No, I'm just kidding.
Screw happiness, I'm justkidding.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, no, I think that's a good intro to our next
podcast so between now and thetime we record again yeah, I
will, because I've been doing itnow for two months I will spend
more time thinking about deathand where my view of death comes
(30:36):
from, if my view of death ishelpful or a hindrance to me and
the way I live, and then maybewe open ourselves up to the idea
of reframing that Mm-hmm,thinking about it differently.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, sounds good.
Why are you laughing?
All right, I've got to go towork.
Okay, we'll see you later.
but it really compelled me to examine my
thoughts about death where theycame from and what is the
meaning I put on death and wheredoes that meaning come from?
What is the philosophy thatI've received from others?
If I am this collection ofprograms, if my methods of
(00:32):
interpreting the world around mecome from my past and the
influences they come from pastsuggestions accepted, if all of
that led me to a place where, atmy present age, in my present
state of life, I am coming faceto face with the death of my
(00:57):
father.
Now, what does all that mean?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
This is Coffee with Hilary and Les a podcast about
the mind.
As hypnotists, we work everyday helping others to understand
themselves, their actions andthe choices they make.
Join us for a chat abouthypnosis and other ways to
improve your state of mind.
Okay, we're on the line,beautiful.
(01:24):
Well, look at that, the sun'spoking out.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yeah, just as soon as we get on the line, it's like a
sign we should podcast.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
A sign, yes, sort of like our idea for today.
Interpretation of thingsExactly.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Exactly idea for today.
Interpretation of things.
Exactly exactly nothing meansanything and everything means
everything and anything can meananything and the meaning is
what we bring to it.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Yeah, it makes me think about.
I think I've mentioned thismaybe a year ago on the podcast.
I feel like I said it on thepodcast.
Um, I was somewhere, I don'tknow exactly, but either I or
(02:20):
somebody else dropped a coin Ithink it was like a 10 cents or
something and I saw it there onthe ground and I didn't think
anything of it because I droppedit or somebody else.
I watched somebody else drop itor something, and then the
person I think it may have beena lineup of some sort and then
the person a couple people backmoved up and then I saw them
(02:45):
bend down and pick up the coinand say to someone that they
were with look, I just found a10 cents Like this is spiritual
right.
And I thought in that momentthis is so interesting because I
would do the same thing, youknow, when I see a 10 cents
randomly.
But I got to see like a wholething play out there, um of
(03:10):
interpretation right from onecontrast to the other or maybe
it was spirit that arranged forthe dime to be dropped and then
the dime to be found yeah, no, Ibelieve it.
I thought I remember anothertime um, this is all over the
(03:33):
place right now, but that's okay.
I remember another time I wasdriving from work to home and
just sort of down the streetfrom my work, I saw this empty
parking lot and there was areally nice looking stroller
just sitting in the parking lot.
Don't worry, there wasn't anybaby in it or anything, I just
(03:57):
kept driving, but just thisstroller that was sitting there.
And what dawned on me issomething to the effect of you
just never know all thesituations that the universe has
set up for people, right, sothat stroller hands down.
(04:17):
I know it in my heart thatsomebody would have found it
that needed it, right, I didn'tneed it looking at it, I just
looked at it and had the idea.
But there was somebody outthere that needed this and it
was just sitting there for them,right?
And you just have no idea howyou are involved in the universe
(04:42):
giving to others.
You just have no idea howothers are involved in the
universe giving to others.
You just have no idea howothers are involved in the
universe giving to you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Um, yeah, like those gloves like the gloves.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
Oh, my god, the greatest story of my life,
honestly, tell it.
Oh, okay, so, so, um, yeah, wewere in downtown toronto going
to symphony and we went to thekeg beforehand.
And outside the keg we'recoming out and there is like a
(05:16):
Dollarama bag and I look in theDollarama bag and there's a pair
of gloves in there.
It's kind of like one of thoseI can't remember if it was like
three sets of gloves on onething or one pair of gloves, but
anyway, I picked up the bag andI heard in my head you're to
(05:40):
give this to somebody.
And I'm thinking, well, whoLike who Looking around?
Who am I supposed to give thisto somebody?
And I'm thinking, well, whoLike who Looking around?
Who am I supposed to give thisto?
And I'm getting chills justthinking about this.
But anyway, we start walking tothe symphony, which is just
down the road, and I'm lookingat everybody who passes by.
(06:02):
This person, no, this person,no.
And we get to the symphony andoutside the symphony there's
somebody playing the guitar onthe street, just on the sidewalk
area, and of course this iswinter too, I should say.
(06:24):
So I heard you know you're togive the gloves to this person
and of course, there was alittle bit of fear in me because
I thought, you know, I justdon't go randomly up to people
and ask these questions Like, doyou want these gloves?
You know it's not somethingthat I'm used to doing, but
anyway, it was one of these likeyou have to do, this kind of
(06:45):
moments.
And I went up to the guy and Isaid, do you want these gloves?
I've got these gloves here.
And he said yes, and I gave himthe gloves of like this intense
(07:06):
, almost like this lovingtransaction.
Right, he was, um, happy or,you know, maybe surprised.
This person asked this.
But there was something there,this energetic transaction, that
was beyond, like, I just feltlike I was flying and right
(07:35):
after that I thought, oh my gosh, I want that all the time.
I'm going to open a soupkitchen, I'm going to be a golf
person, I'm going to be likeanyway, I didn't go down that
road specifically, but it wasincredible, that giving feeling
and it's you know, maybe I'vementioned this before on the
(07:56):
podcast this whole idea oflove's ripple effect.
It sort of is like that right,you're changing a moment in
somebody's life and you don'teven realize it.
I know that that moment, if anymoments, come up in my life
(08:18):
review, that will be it right.
What did you do for others?
Comes up a lot in life reviewsand I hope to see that again one
day.
Yeah, how does.
Speaker 1 (08:33):
You know, our topic is a peculiar one, but it's.
I don't want to rush through it.
I want to start with this, thissimple idea that how do we
place meaning on things?
You know, where doesinterpretation and meaning come
from?
You know, somebody could justas easily say ah, you found a
(08:58):
pair of gloves, you gave them tosome needy guy on the street,
yippity-doo-dah, it's just.
It just sort of happened.
It's no big deal.
And yet, for you from the momentyou found them to right up till
the the moments after youdelivered them.
There it was, it was felt,experienced by you as almost a
(09:23):
quest, almost a life changingmoment for you and for the poor
guy sitting on the streetplaying his guitar, cold Right,
(09:44):
and to see that things havemeaning, that they mean
something about us, that theymean something about life, that
they mean something about theworld that we're in and we're
very quick to put meaning onthings.
In fact, to me, sometimes Ireally see that human beings are
meaning-creating machines.
(10:06):
We create meaning where itmight otherwise appear to be
none, and those meanings arevery, very personal I mean, it's
just me and the way I haveinterpreted it and what it means
to me but it can have such amagnum effect like a massive
(10:31):
impact on my emotional self, onmy higher self and on my future
behavior.
Right, my future behavior right.
(10:52):
If I start to interpret my world, my life, in very purposeful
ways, I interpret the world ashaving purpose behind everything
.
That dime fell out of thatwallet without that person
noticing, only because someother force behind it was trying
to create a meaningfulexperience for that person who
came along a few minutes later,who sees it as this miraculous
(11:16):
appearance of a dime and putstheir meaning upon it.
And that's what I, you know,that's what we do.
We put meaning on things.
And then where does that, youknow?
To me, it leads me to thequestion where does that meaning
come from?
Right, that meaning tends tohave themes to it.
(11:40):
You know, we tend to have thesame kinds of meaning on the
same kinds of things.
It starts to become a trend.
I mean, if we place meaning onthings repeatedly in a similar
way, doesn't it become aphilosophy?
(12:01):
This is my philosophy in life.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
This is the way I interpret life.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
This is the way I interpret what otherwise might
be called by others as randomevents which is everything,
really Everything's a randomevent and everything has meaning
to its causes, everything haspurpose to the dynamics that
(12:32):
made it so.
Yeah, I think that it's a greatquestion to ask yourself where
does my philosophy come from?
Where does my consistentlyinterpreted meanings?
Does that make sense?
(12:53):
Where is the?
There's patterns in the way Iinterpret things and the meaning
I place on things, and wheredoes that come from, and isn't
it?
really reflective of my deepersubconscious life philosophies,
and that's the stuff that justfascinates me deeper
subconscious life philosophies,and that's the stuff that just
fascinates me.
(13:13):
That's the stuff that I'll getlost for the next hour thinking
about, wondering how does itcome about and what does it mean
?
Because it can also just meannothing.
It can be, oh look, I found adime, another 10 dimes, and I
might be able to buy somethingat the dollar store, right so?
But I could just as easily saythis is someone on the other
(13:35):
side speaking to me, remindingme that they're always with me
and that they love me, yeah, andthat they're always going to
try to communicate with me, yeah, yeah, two very extremely
different interpretations ofphysical events in our world.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Yeah, sort of like a cardinal, you know, outside the
window.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Easily dismissed as happenstance, easily just
ignored.
I mean, how many things in ourlife do we ignore that we could
be interpreting as havingmeaning?
That they might actually havemeaning, depending on the depth
or the scope of what we'rewilling to acknowledge.
(14:27):
For many people, it's justabout what you see, what you
feel.
If it isn't physical, it isn'treal.
And there are others who saythere's, there's nothing that
happens in the physical thathasn't originated in the
non-physical right.
You want to be a Newtonianphysicist?
(14:50):
You know every action has anequal and opposite reaction.
You want to be a quantumphysicist?
It is the way I interpret whatgoes on around me that creates
the next thing that goes onaround me.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I like that Physicism .
Speaker 1 (15:13):
I like that physicist , I like that word.
I'm a physicist.
I'm a physicist when we, whereI really wanted to start.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Sure, throw me under the bus.
No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1 (15:34):
No, that's not what I mean.
In fact, I really love the waywe've come to this, because you
know, I said to Hillary a coupleweeks ago I wanted to do a
series of podcasts on death Holycrap.
A series of podcasts on death,holy crap.
One minute we're talking aboutall this beautiful
(15:55):
interpretation and dimes andmeaning and now Les throws out
the word death.
Right, death metal.
But we've gone through in thelast two months, the death of my
father, and it wasn't simpleand it wasn't fast and it
(16:21):
allowed us a lot of time tothink about death and to think
about the processes of death andthe processes, therefore, of
life, because you can't havelife, physical life as we know
it, without death.
(16:42):
Right, and it really compelledme, and I know it had the same
effect on a lot of people, andof course you too, but that's
not the meaning we put on it.
And so I look at the last twomonths of my father reaching the
(17:04):
point where, where he felt hethought there wasn't any value
left in his life, and embracingdeath and dying and leaving us
(17:26):
here, and leaving us here whileyou know we all hope, dream
(17:48):
yearn, speculate where he is andwhat's happened to him.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Just a reminder that we offer a wide range of
products and services that aregrowing every day.
Visit our websitepsalmhypnosiscom and check us
out.
If hypnosis interests you, signup for a free consultation and
let's chat about what you wantto do to improve your state of
mind.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
And so for me, like the first thing I want to talk
about in death is just takingthe time, for, if you're
listening and for us, for thesefew moments, where does our
experience and interpretation ofdeath come from?
Is death something you'reafraid of?
Is death something that'snatural?
(18:29):
Is death something that needsto be avoided?
Is death something that needsto be resisted and fought
against?
Is death actually death?
You know there's so many waysof interpreting it and
everybody's got their own, andso to to just you know, as a, as
(18:53):
a listener, you know what doesdeath mean to you?
How do you interpret death andwhere does that?
interpretation come from?
What is your experience ofdeath?
What are your experiences ofpeople dying in your life, both
(19:20):
loved ones and absolutestrangers, public figures?
What are all those experiencesand what does it mean to you?
Speaker 2 (19:35):
and I would even go as far as to say do you think
that your interpretation ofdeath could change?
And if it changed, what wouldthat mean about you?
Speaker 1 (19:58):
would you want it to change and how would you want it
to change?
And.
I think for most people.
I want my interpretation ofdeath to be accurate right.
I don't want to be wrong, Iwant to be right about this, and
(20:22):
For many people it's a veryspeculative question because
they say well, you can't know.
I'm not sure that that's true,but assuming for a second that
it might be true, that nobodycan tell you what it is, then
(20:48):
you would be simply having anopinion um, then you would be
simply having an opinion.
It's my opinion that upon death,this is what happens and
therefore death means this.
And then again, knowing thatthese are all constructs in our
(21:10):
mind.
Right, going back to how Iinterpret this, as a function of
the way I interpret my lifephilosophically, it's a function
of the constructs that I'vecreated in my mind about this
stuff.
And if I say to myself I can'treally know, then what we're
(21:30):
talking about is an opinion, andthen if opinions are driven by
a desire to be right, thenopinions can't be permanent.
Opinions are nothing more thaninvitations to do more homework,
(21:52):
to do more research, to do moreinvestigation, to spend more
time with it, to think about ita while, to ask some questions.
Right, an opinion is notsomething to be embraced and try
to cling to.
An opinion is something to beexamined and changed.
(22:15):
They're meant to be temporary.
Unfortunately, what we tend todo is collect information
confirmation bias.
We collect information thatconfirms our opinions while
ignoring information that wouldcounter our opinion.
But wouldn't it be morestimulating in life to go out of
(22:38):
your way all the time to findinformation that contradicts
your opinions on anything?
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Well, I think that's scary for some people, for a lot
of people, I think.
If someone finds informationthat contradicts their opinions
especially if their opinions areattached to their ego and who
they are, right, you're tellingme.
I need to change this.
This is who I am, this is who Ipresent to the world.
You know, I've thought thisforever.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
And that's one of the most powerful reframes I use in
hypnosis.
All the time, I am not what Ithink.
I am the thinker.
I can change what I think.
So what would be sufficientinformation, what would be
sufficient evidence for me tochange my opinion?
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Absolute.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
I tend to believe people never change their
opinion.
I tend to believe that peoplespend all of their time
collecting information toconfirm their opinions and that
when they're challenged, whenthey find themselves confronted
with overwhelming evidence tothe contrary, they just ignore
it.
They just ignore it, shut itdown and say to themselves well,
(24:06):
that can't be true.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yeah, but I don't think that that kind of
rigidness is helpful no, it'snot, and I think it's if I can
go as far to say it's hurtful toyourself right in the long run.
(24:32):
If I can go as far to say it'shurtful to yourself right In the
long run maybe not in the shortterm.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
Well, if your goal is to be right, yeah, you can't be
right if you're not open toevery bit of evidence that
presents itself to you.
Mm-hmm, and maybe rightness orthe correctness or the, the
correct idea is a long way awayfrom where you are, and you
(24:59):
can't get there withoutaccepting in certain bits of
evidence, certain bits ofinformation along the way.
Right, like to me, I have cometo believe that the only
unscientific thing you can do isignore evidence, and even in
(25:20):
science, we look at evidence andwe interpret it yeah, and we
put meaning on it, and everyscientist who's committed to the
scientific method goes througha whole series of steps where
they change their mind multipletimes as the evidence presents
different potentialinterpretations you at least
(25:43):
hope, they do that I think thatthere are a lot of true
scientists out there who do thatyeah, the ones who are public,
so that's a whole different idea.
The ones who ones who are outthere making money from their
ideas are gonna cling to theirold ideas because that's their
livelihood.
Yeah, the last thing they wantto do is say oops, sorry, I was
wrong.
You know those six books Iwrote.
(26:06):
Yeah, just ignore them, don'tbuy them anymore.
And you don't want to pay me tocome and speak to your audience
because you know I turned outto be wrong.
I think that, um, that thosearen't the scientists I'm really
thinking about.
The scientists that I'mthinking about are the ones that
are committed to discoveringtruth yeah as close as we can
(26:30):
come.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I wonder if there's any more information on what's
underneath the pyramids Squirrel?
Oh no, we were just joking,tyke.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
Our dog's been chasing squirrels away all
morning.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
But that's the truth of it, is it?
Hillary had a squirrel moment.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Pyramids- anyway, I think that the first step, if we
were to take a few podcasts toexamine the idea of death, is to
just examine what we alreadythink, what we already believe,
(27:21):
what, what our opinion alreadyis and ask ourselves.
Just how open are we tochanging that?
Is there value in changing that?
Is there a way, you know?
I would think that I start withsimple facts.
If I'm born, I'm gonna die notme thousands of people out there
(27:52):
saying shut up isn't it amazing?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
I've thought about this isn't it amazing how we
don't usually go around everyday thinking about how you know
our demise.
Yeah, and if that was maybemore part of our thoughts, we
would maybe act differentlythere you go.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
That's where I'm headed oh that's where I'm
headed.
But where I'm headed is is areyour thoughts of death helpful
to you?
Right?
It's a fact that if you'rewalking around as a human being,
you're gonna die.
That's just inevitable.
So how can you examine whereyour thoughts of death come from
(28:33):
, where your interpretation ofdeath comes from?
And could you possibly have abetter one, one that makes
living better, one that makesthe choices you make while
you're alive feel and contributeto your life better?
(28:58):
How much does our thought ofdeath interfere with our ability
to live?
And so, is there a better wayto think about death?
Is it possible to think aboutdeath like you think about the
dime or you think about thegloves?
Can you put a meaning on deaththat makes life all the more
(29:24):
worth living?
Is your interpretation or viewof death today interfering with
your joy of life, with yourappreciation of others, with the
things that make life worthliving?
So ask the question where do mythoughts about death come from?
(29:46):
What are my experiences ofdeath?
What is my view of the wholething?
Is this helping me?
Is this making my life better?
Are these views?
Speaker 2 (30:03):
helpful.
And then it's.
You know, do I want to be rightor do I want to be happy?
I want to be right.
No, I'm not, screw happiness.
No, I'm just kidding.
Screw happiness, I'm justkidding.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, no, I think that's a good intro to our next
podcast so between now and thetime we record again yeah, I
will, because I've been doing itnow for two months I will spend
more time thinking about deathand where my view of death comes
(30:36):
from, if my view of death ishelpful or a hindrance to me and
the way I live, and then maybewe open ourselves up to the idea
of reframing that Mm-hmm,thinking about it differently.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, sounds good.
Why are you laughing?
All right, I've got to go towork.
Okay, we'll see you later.
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