July 10, 2025 • 30 mins
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What if the ego isn't something to battle, but simply "the story we tell ourselves about ourselves"? In this thought-provoking exploration, Hilary and Les unpack how our self-narratives shape our entire experience of life—and how we can transform them.
Most of us swing like pendulums between harsh self-criticism and compensatory self-inflation, trapped in judgment patterns that close off possibilities. This judgment becomes the dream-state that lulls us to sleep, running the same 90,000 thoughts day after day. But what if we could wake up?
Drawing from ancient Greek philosophy through modern psychology, Hilary and Les reveal how the concept of ego has evolved while maintaining its essential nature as self-narrative. The Stoics viewed attachment to ego as a barrier to wisdom, with Epictetus noting, "It's not events that disturb us, but our opinions about them"—a perspective that resonates powerfully today.
What we commonly call "ego death" in spiritual circles isn't about destroying identity, but transcending separation—shifting focus from isolated individuality to our connection with the collective. True freedom comes not from eliminating the ego but rewriting it with intention, focusing on our inherent capacities to learn, grow, and create.
The path forward is surprisingly simple: begin by acknowledging your unique qualities and abilities. Challenge those habitual "I can't" thoughts. Even changing just 5% of your daily thought patterns can dramatically transform your experience of life. Remember that confidence isn't arrogance—it's knowing you can handle whatever life brings.
Ready to begin writing a new story? Visit psalmhypnosis.com to book a free one-hour journey meeting with Hilary or Les and discover how hypnosis can help you make your life what you want it to be.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
I'll offer the refrain, the refrain of the idea
of ego.
It's the story we tellourselves about ourselves, and I
think it's like a pendulum.
We we swing back and forth fromtelling a really really
negative story about ourselvesto swinging back the other way
(00:32):
and wanting to tell a reallyreally positive story about
ourselves, and back and forth isjust the momentum of judgment.
Welcome to Coffee with Hilaryand Les.
We are a couple of hypnotistswho have created a podcast about
freeing our minds from oldideas, old thoughts and old
(00:55):
habits, those old things thatinterfere with our ability to
make fresh new choices.
It's time for us all to createthe life of our dreams Rainy day
, Lush and green.
We are fully into well, thebeginning of summer, I guess.
(01:19):
Are you sure about that?
Well, it's not like summer,where you're complaining about
the heat, but it's verydefinitely green and growing and
the gardens are really comingto life.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes, for sure late spring.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
The birds, all the geese have had their babies, the
swans had their babies.
There's all these little babiesout there.
Yeah, they're not afraid of anymore snow so'm not gonna be,
that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So today we're talking about the ego, ego
seemed like a good topic.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
it's uh it uh.
Had a client yesterday where itseemed like the right thing to
focus on and talk about, and Ialways say that my clients come
to teach me things.
That's the beauty of havingclients.
They come to me for help andhypnosis and they teach me so
(02:21):
much about my own mind and myown personhood.
And so we talked about ego andhow ego itself as a concept has
such negative connotations.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, we've really turned it into something you
know.
Yeah, we've really turned itinto something you know, not
something inquisitive andsomething to look at, but
something to banish.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Right, yeah, and if anybody ever feels good about
themselves, we say that theyhave a lot of ego.
Yeah, yeah, I think that thatneeds to change.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
People need to feel good about themselves.
They need to be able to look inthe mirror and acknowledge that
.
You know, I'm a process and I'mgetting better every day and
that's my goal.
You know that sort of expansivemindset to approach life and
say you know, things are gettingbetter and I can become more
and I can learn more, and I canbecome more and I can learn more
(03:25):
and I can do more.
And that kind of broad approachto life is just so much more
helpful and so much happier.
Oh, I was ticked, and so it'sreally.
I think it's a concept that, inunderstanding, you can
understand how this focus on theself and a negative focus on
(03:51):
the self or an unreasonablypositive focus on the self, a
grandiose kind of focus on theself you can see how that can be
detrimental.
Detrimental to getting alongwith others, detrimental in
advancing your own interests,detrimental to really expanding
your life so what would we callegomaniacs?
(04:13):
just maniacs, or well, I thinktoday the modern term we use is
narcissist, but, um, you know,that's another one we could
examine for a while.
This, this terminology, becauseit gets thrown around a lot,
and I think that you know, as asI, as I talked about yesterday
(04:35):
and it's one of the things Italk about all the time with
clients I think it's a big stepin everyone's life when they can
use a little Shakespeare.
Shakespeare said nothing's evergood or bad, but thinking makes
it so, and I think that we needto acknowledge our tendency to
judge and our tendency to labelthings as good or bad, and that
(05:02):
that's not always helpful.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Things themselves are pretty neutral.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And even what we might refer to as a negative
thing is simply a lesson right Anegative experience is a lesson
.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And how many negative things have happened in your
life that, when you look back,like negative things have
happened in your life.
That, when you look back, if ithadn't have happened, you
wouldn't be where you are now inthis great space, right?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
that's huge, isn't it right?
Because because we do learnfrom having negative experiences
if we want to, but we can alsoturn it into ego and that's what
we were talking about yesterday, and I think it's really
valuable to think about that.
That idea that, uh well, let's,let's, I'll offer the refrain,
(05:57):
the reframe of the idea of ego.
It's the story we tellourselves about ourselves.
It's the story we tellourselves about ourselves.
The story we tell ourselvesabout ourselves.
And I think it's like a pendulumwe swing back and forth from
(06:17):
telling a really, reallynegative story about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
To swinging back the other way and wanting to tell a
really really positive storyabout ourselves.
Yeah, to swinging back theother way and wanting to tell a
really really positive storyabout ourselves, and back and
forth is just the momentum ofjudgment.
This is good, this is bad.
This is good, this is bad and Ithink to start with that idea,
that judgment, that unnecessarynext step, that going from
(06:50):
preference to condemnation ispart of why ego becomes a
problem for people and why otherpeople's egos become problems
for them, I there's there'svalue in stepping back from
judgment yeah but you did somelooking.
(07:13):
What's the?
What's the history of theconcept of ego?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
yeah.
So I thought I initially,before I looked, that ego came
from Greek stuff, greece Greekstuff.
And then I looked it up onGoogle and it was just talking
about Freud and I thought, no,it's got to be older than that.
So what did we do?
We went to the great AI and welooked it up.
(07:41):
So it does go back in a way togreece, the greek word ego.
It just means I right.
But it wasn't.
It wasn't what we make it today, this philosophical part of it
that we use in psychology.
So you know soccer to use, orwhat did you call him socrates?
(08:07):
that's from socrates excellentsocrates had this idea of know
thyself, so sort of along thesame, you know means, same lines
, focused on virtue and selfexamination.
(08:27):
Not this idea of ego is pridethat we sort of make it out to
be now as we've.
We've sort of made it, made itthe devil on your shoulder.
Let's say Plato talked aboutlogos being reason, thymus, if
I'm saying these right spiritand emotion, epithyma, desire.
(08:50):
And the balanced person is onewhere reason rules over other
parts.
So what we call ego today mightshow up in Plato's idea of
thymus, the assertive,honor-seeking part of the soul.
Plato's idea of thymos, theassertive, honor-seeking part of
the soul, right Aristotlefocused on rationality.
(09:13):
Self-worth came from livingvirtuously, not self-importance.
So again, you know, seeing theego in all of that.
The Stoics this was interestingsaw ego as a barrier to wisdom,
and that barrier is pride,opinion or attachment, and it
urged detachment from externalvalidation and emotional
(09:36):
reactions.
It valued humility andself-mastery.
And this was interesting.
A quote from Epictetus.
Epictetus, epictetus.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I'm thinking of it, Epictetus.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's not events that disturb us, but our opinions
about them.
And that sort of goes back towhat we were talking about this
morning about judgment.
Right, it's how we look atevents in our life and we judge
them, Everything from you know abig event to a small event.
You know someone cuts you offin the line at the grocery store
(10:19):
or something I don't know, andwe judge that as bad.
Right.
But again, like I said earlier,before we turn on the podcast,
you know who knows we judge itas bad in that moment, but who
knows where that might lead usmoment.
(10:43):
But who knows where that mightlead us?
Right, it might lead us to youknow something great happening,
that that we needed those extrafew minutes waiting in line,
right?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
just something to think about well, and it's just
the difference judgment reallycloses off opportunity.
Right, things are brought to us, sometimes in what we would
interpret as positive ways, orsometimes as negative ways, and
then, because we judge it asnegative, we lose the
(11:09):
opportunity that's inside it.
You know, even being, you know,cut off by somebody in the
grocery store, this could beyour new best friend standing in
front of you, and they mightactually, you know, be be off,
lost in their own thoughts abouttheir own story.
And I didn't even see you there.
I think there's very seldom asanybody actually have a negative
(11:32):
desire.
Very seldom do people want tohurt other people.
They're just trying to advancetheir own interests and get
things going or whatever.
So the point that I'm trying tomake is that when events happen
and we jump to judgment, weclose off a whole world of
growth that could be sittingthere waiting for us.
Within that and in fact it'svery seldom can people look back
(11:56):
on negative events in theirlives.
And if they look back on thosenegative events and say that was
negative and my life was ruinedbecause of it, then they've put
a negative judgment on it andthey didn't learn the lesson
that was waiting there for themin that they didn't learn what
they could have learned fromthat.
And there are others who lookat those events and say, oh geez
(12:16):
, you know, like that, that Iexperienced that really
negatively, but it taught methis and this and this, and
because of that, my whole lifehas gone in a different
trajectory and I've becomereally clear about new ideas and
new purposes.
And and it really is there arepeople who will tell you that
you know that the horriblethings I mean many of these
(12:38):
motivational speakers that weall turn to right, they've had
some negative event in theirlife that they turned into a
positive and we admire thembecause we know how easy it is
for the rest of us to say, holycrap, that was awful, you know
that would have ruined me, right, but it's really.
It comes back to that idea thatour ego is a story we tell
(13:02):
ourselves about ourselves, andyou can really see how it's very
easy to turn that story againstourselves, right?
It's really easy for us tostart to see our lives as a
series of negative events, whichthen means that somehow my life
(13:27):
is no good and that, byimplication, means I'm no good
and that my future is dark, andit's really, you know, when you
step back and say well, if myego is the story I tell myself
about myself, if I couldeliminate this negative judgment
(13:50):
that I fall into and just starttalking about the positive
things, start telling my storyin a way that sounds pretty good
, right?
And not in some conceited,arrogant look at me.
I'm all that in a bag of chipsway.
It's more of being honest aboutyour progress and your
(14:14):
development and your future ashaving infinite possibilities.
The story we tell ourselvesabout ourselves, I think,
creates limits on our future andit creates barriers to new
(14:39):
choices, deciding to dodifferent things.
You know how many people say Ican't do that or I could never
do that or I could never dothose kinds of things, and
that's well.
It's just not true, right?
Any person can do anything ifthey want to put their mind to
(14:59):
it, but it's really a decisionbased on their past to tell
themselves I can't.
I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
In hypnosis we have a script that is Enhancement,
basically, and it's abouthelping someone just feel like
they can do things right, feellike they can go through their
(15:34):
day feeling better and betterevery single day.
You know, no matter what.
Feeling better and better everysingle day, you know, no matter
what.
And it just made me think justnow about how there's this whole
movement of oh, we got to killthe ego, right.
But I think over the years Iused to think that and over the
(16:00):
years I've started to think moreand more about well, ego is
sort of a little bit of amotivator, right, it motivates
you.
It's when it drives you, it'sthe one in this, you know, in
the, in the driver, in the, inthe car, and you're in the
passenger seat.
That's where it can get out ofhand.
(16:20):
But I think, little kids,unfortunately, we can kill their
egos, right, we can push themdown.
And then you have clientscoming in who need ego boosts.
Right, we need to.
We need to help to motivatethem again, because they've been
(16:41):
told that you know, oh, youcan't do that, or don't let,
don't let it go to your head, orlike.
I've heard a lot of things overthe years about parents not
giving too much praise, right,because we don't, they don't.
They don't want their kids tothink they're all that in a bag
of chips, as we say, right?
(17:01):
So I think ego is important,and maybe I'm getting off track
here, but I think that it's goodto have ego, but let it be in
the passenger seat instead ofthe driver's seat instead of the
driver's seat.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Well, I think the natural tendency is to think of
ego as either this reallyarrogant thing or this really
self-destructive thing, rightand and we don't see the middle
ground at all, we don't see thepossibilities of its.
Well, first of all, we don'tsee that it's actually a neutral
thing.
It is in terms of spiritualadvancement.
(17:47):
We want to be less motivated bythe individual and more and
more motivated by the collective, in other words, to see
ourselves as connected toeverything and have that drive
us.
And so there's a real tendencyin spiritual circles to sort of
look at ego and label it as eviland negative.
(18:10):
And I see how it's possiblethat an incredible focus on
ourselves as as individualsreally inhibits, really inhibits
our, our collective advancement.
But if we were to simplify itand I just really think that
that's a very powerful refrainto say it's just the story I
(18:32):
tell myself about myself, andthat story could actually become
really spiritual, right, I am achild of the universe.
I am filled with unique insightsand abilities and filled with
(18:52):
lovability, filled withcapacities to create.
If that's the story that we'retelling ourselves about
ourselves, then that kind ofstory we can look at others and
say that's the same story forthem.
You know, everyone around me isthis kind of story.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And so now what I want to do is add details to my
story that enhance that, yeah,that build that inherent beauty
that every human being has inthem, that inherent creativity
and curiosity that every humanbeing has in them, and start
their story there, rather thanstarting your story with your
(19:43):
past yeah and mostly focused onthe negative past yeah, I think
about people that have had, uh,quite deep spiritual experiences
, whether you know.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
They find that in meditation or through plant
medicine, and they talk abouthaving an ego death experience.
And I wonder, you know, I thinkthat's what we've called it.
So people say that their egodied, but I more wonder if it's
(20:18):
more of the death of judgment,the death of separation instead.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, ego death is, I think, a great term when what
it means is that I've becomeless focused on me and the way I
interpret the world and becomemore focused on the power of the
collective, the power of ustogether.
You know the, the, the what dothey call it?
(20:46):
The result is greater than thesum of the parts.
When human beings arecollaborative, when human beings
come together, it's amazing thestuff we do.
And when human beings feelisolated, when human beings feel
sort of disconnected, that'swhen they start to really
dysfunction.
(21:07):
And so this idea of beingfocused on me and my story and
becoming focused on us and ourstory, I think that's a really
great use of the concept of egodeath and I also think it's like
you know.
I think about ego being anattachment, like that's a great
word.
You know, we become attached toour story.
(21:28):
It's not just that we have astory, it's that it's my story
and, regardless of what it is,it's my story.
I've not just that we have astory, it's that it's my story
and regardless of what it is,it's my story.
I've gotten used to it.
I've told it to myself a wholebunch of times.
I now believe in it.
Don't tell me that I'm wrong,don't tell me that I don't have
this kind of negative story inme.
(21:48):
And what happens in thatattachment is.
We tell that story to ourselvesover and over and over and it
becomes like a dream state.
It becomes our focus.
It's what's going on in ourmind over and over and over.
It's that idea where our mindhas thoughts 90,000 a day.
Most of them are the same asyesterday and we become really
(22:11):
attached and driving thosethoughts over and over and over.
And to me that's what we meanwhen we say we awaken.
That is a process.
Thinking the same thoughts overand over and over puts you to
sleep.
It puts you deep inside thatlittle world you've created and
the rest of the real worldthat's out there waiting for you
(22:33):
is lost.
You've become completely asleepto the world.
And this is where I like theterm waking up.
I've woken up to thepossibilities that if I use my
mind in a way that builds me,that I can tell a whole new
story, that in fact, I can stopthis story I've been telling
(22:54):
myself.
Right now, I'm just not goingto tell it to myself anymore.
I am now going to consider whatmy story might be.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And this is where you start to change what you think
every day.
You know, joe Dispenza isreally great at this stuff.
It's really his focus, rightthe idea of telling yourself a
different story so that you openthe possibilities for a very
different life.
If you can't change yourthoughts, you're not going to
change your life.
You've got to change how youthink about your life to be able
(23:23):
to make changes in your life.
So you know, to me it's thatwhen the ego becomes dark and
centralized and becomes a storywe tell ourselves, without
variation, that is inherentlynegative and inherently limited,
we get trapped in it and whenwe break out of it, the ego
(23:48):
death and the waking up into theinfinite possibilities that are
really there for you and youbegin to tell yourself a
different story.
You know, I have talents, Ihave abilities, I have my own
curiosity, I have my owninterests, I have people who
(24:10):
love me and who I love.
I have years ahead of me.
Maybe, if it's even, if it'sonly days, even it's only
minutes, I have time ahead of meto recreate my story.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
That's the beginning of a whole other kind of life
yeah, and even if you know youdon't have to take those 60,000
to 90,000 thoughts a day and andturn every single one on its
head, imagine what it would belike just to take 5% of those
thoughts and and try to make achange, and you know.
(24:49):
At first I can understand whyit might be scary, right?
Because, well, what does itmean about me if I, we don't
want to be wrong?
Right, think about humans.
We don't want to be wrong.
We want our story, our realityto be what we judge as right.
(25:12):
Right, that's why you see peoplefighting about things all over
the internet and face-to-face.
Sometimes it's this idea that Iwant to be the right person, I
don't want to be the wrongperson.
And so to change that and tothink well, maybe there is
another way of thinking, maybethere's another way.
(25:32):
I mean, how many times have wethought, oh, I really want to
try that, I want to.
Maybe, I want to do that.
But then that thought comes upwell, wait a minute, no, I,
that's stupid, or no, I can't dothat.
Right, where did those thoughtscome from?
I bet you, at one, two yearsold, if you wanted to try
(25:55):
something, you've got your handsinto it right, you did it and
and we just have these, thesethoughts that you know we talk
about this all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
They aren't our own, hmm, yeah, we receive all kinds
of interpretations from others.
You know, I think of it just assimply as the difference
between reading a book andwriting a book.
When I'm reading a book, thatstory is the story that I'm in
(26:28):
and I'm going to pursue thatstory and I'm going to pursue
that story.
But it's a wholly differentidea to write a book.
So to think in terms ofyourself, as my ego is telling
me this same story over and overand over, and I'm attached to
it, I'm clinging to it.
For better or worse, it is meand then saying no, no, no, no,
(26:51):
no, I can write a differentstory.
Starting right now, I can writea different story.
So imagine yourself sittingdown and trying to write the
story you're going to tellyourself about yourself.
And start off.
It's a simple, simple exercise.
Take a piece of paper and startto list the good things about
(27:12):
you, the healthy, wonderful,loving, expressive things about
you, the uniqueness and talentsthat you bring to bear on the
world around you.
Start to write the story aboutthis character right.
Finish the sentence I am nowsomething positive, I am
(27:34):
something wonderful, I do thingsthat are really good about what
you do.
Start to rewrite that story inyour mind and see how that feels
, because you're going togenerate some really wild
feelings.
This is not an exercise intrying to create a negative,
(27:55):
positive ego, an arrogant ego.
That's not.
The positive Confidence comesfrom knowing that you can handle
what life has to offer.
So what are the characteristicsabout you?
And one of the characteristicsthat are is about everybody.
Everyone learns, everyone hasthe capacity to learn and grow,
(28:18):
and everyone has the capacity tocreate Right.
To create right and so to befocused on that stuff very
future oriented stuff, so thatour story is being written in
the context of the future, notthe context of the past.
Ego is just a story we tellourselves about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
It's time to tell a better story yeah, yeah, my
brain is just swirling, my mindis swirling.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So you know, I'm so lucky that you folks out there
come and see me for hypnosis.
You teach me so much aboutmyself and you remind me of all
those really important thingsfor myself.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, fascinating.
All right, I'm just like mythoughts are swirling, like I
said.
But yeah, we'll continue thisdiscussion later.
(29:30):
See you later.
We hope you enjoyed today'spodcast and that maybe it helped
even a little.
If you have any questions, wewould love you to send them
along in an email to info atpsalmhypnosiscom.
Thank you for being part of theState of Mind community.
For more information abouthypnosis and the various online
(29:50):
or in-person services we provide, please visit our website,
wwwpsalmhypnosiscom.
The link will be in the notesbelow.
While you are there, why don'tyou book a free one-hour journey
, meeting with Hilary or Les tolearn more about what hypnosis
is and how you might use it tomake your life what you want it
to be?
Bye for now.
(30:11):
Talk to you tomorrow, thank you.
I'll offer the refrain, the refrain of the idea
of ego.
It's the story we tellourselves about ourselves, and I
think it's like a pendulum.
We we swing back and forth fromtelling a really really
negative story about ourselvesto swinging back the other way
(00:32):
and wanting to tell a reallyreally positive story about
ourselves, and back and forth isjust the momentum of judgment.
Welcome to Coffee with Hilaryand Les.
We are a couple of hypnotistswho have created a podcast about
freeing our minds from oldideas, old thoughts and old
(00:55):
habits, those old things thatinterfere with our ability to
make fresh new choices.
It's time for us all to createthe life of our dreams Rainy day
, Lush and green.
We are fully into well, thebeginning of summer, I guess.
(01:19):
Are you sure about that?
Well, it's not like summer,where you're complaining about
the heat, but it's verydefinitely green and growing and
the gardens are really comingto life.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yes, for sure late spring.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
The birds, all the geese have had their babies, the
swans had their babies.
There's all these little babiesout there.
Yeah, they're not afraid of anymore snow so'm not gonna be,
that's right, that's right.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
So today we're talking about the ego, ego
seemed like a good topic.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
it's uh it uh.
Had a client yesterday where itseemed like the right thing to
focus on and talk about, and Ialways say that my clients come
to teach me things.
That's the beauty of havingclients.
They come to me for help andhypnosis and they teach me so
(02:21):
much about my own mind and myown personhood.
And so we talked about ego andhow ego itself as a concept has
such negative connotations.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Yeah, we've really turned it into something you
know.
Yeah, we've really turned itinto something you know, not
something inquisitive andsomething to look at, but
something to banish.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Right, yeah, and if anybody ever feels good about
themselves, we say that theyhave a lot of ego.
Yeah, yeah, I think that thatneeds to change.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
People need to feel good about themselves.
They need to be able to look inthe mirror and acknowledge that
.
You know, I'm a process and I'mgetting better every day and
that's my goal.
You know that sort of expansivemindset to approach life and
say you know, things are gettingbetter and I can become more
and I can learn more, and I canbecome more and I can learn more
(03:25):
and I can do more.
And that kind of broad approachto life is just so much more
helpful and so much happier.
Oh, I was ticked, and so it'sreally.
I think it's a concept that, inunderstanding, you can
understand how this focus on theself and a negative focus on
(03:51):
the self or an unreasonablypositive focus on the self, a
grandiose kind of focus on theself you can see how that can be
detrimental.
Detrimental to getting alongwith others, detrimental in
advancing your own interests,detrimental to really expanding
your life so what would we callegomaniacs?
(04:13):
just maniacs, or well, I thinktoday the modern term we use is
narcissist, but, um, you know,that's another one we could
examine for a while.
This, this terminology, becauseit gets thrown around a lot,
and I think that you know, as asI, as I talked about yesterday
(04:35):
and it's one of the things Italk about all the time with
clients I think it's a big stepin everyone's life when they can
use a little Shakespeare.
Shakespeare said nothing's evergood or bad, but thinking makes
it so, and I think that we needto acknowledge our tendency to
judge and our tendency to labelthings as good or bad, and that
(05:02):
that's not always helpful.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
Things themselves are pretty neutral.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
And even what we might refer to as a negative
thing is simply a lesson right Anegative experience is a lesson
.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
And how many negative things have happened in your
life that, when you look back,like negative things have
happened in your life.
That, when you look back, if ithadn't have happened, you
wouldn't be where you are now inthis great space, right?
Speaker 1 (05:31):
that's huge, isn't it right?
Because because we do learnfrom having negative experiences
if we want to, but we can alsoturn it into ego and that's what
we were talking about yesterday, and I think it's really
valuable to think about that.
That idea that, uh well, let's,let's, I'll offer the refrain,
(05:57):
the reframe of the idea of ego.
It's the story we tellourselves about ourselves.
It's the story we tellourselves about ourselves.
The story we tell ourselvesabout ourselves.
And I think it's like a pendulumwe swing back and forth from
(06:17):
telling a really, reallynegative story about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
To swinging back the other way and wanting to tell a
really really positive storyabout ourselves.
Yeah, to swinging back theother way and wanting to tell a
really really positive storyabout ourselves, and back and
forth is just the momentum ofjudgment.
This is good, this is bad.
This is good, this is bad and Ithink to start with that idea,
that judgment, that unnecessarynext step, that going from
(06:50):
preference to condemnation ispart of why ego becomes a
problem for people and why otherpeople's egos become problems
for them, I there's there'svalue in stepping back from
judgment yeah but you did somelooking.
(07:13):
What's the?
What's the history of theconcept of ego?
Speaker 2 (07:19):
yeah.
So I thought I initially,before I looked, that ego came
from Greek stuff, greece Greekstuff.
And then I looked it up onGoogle and it was just talking
about Freud and I thought, no,it's got to be older than that.
So what did we do?
We went to the great AI and welooked it up.
(07:41):
So it does go back in a way togreece, the greek word ego.
It just means I right.
But it wasn't.
It wasn't what we make it today, this philosophical part of it
that we use in psychology.
So you know soccer to use, orwhat did you call him socrates?
(08:07):
that's from socrates excellentsocrates had this idea of know
thyself, so sort of along thesame, you know means, same lines
, focused on virtue and selfexamination.
(08:27):
Not this idea of ego is pridethat we sort of make it out to
be now as we've.
We've sort of made it, made itthe devil on your shoulder.
Let's say Plato talked aboutlogos being reason, thymus, if
I'm saying these right spiritand emotion, epithyma, desire.
(08:50):
And the balanced person is onewhere reason rules over other
parts.
So what we call ego today mightshow up in Plato's idea of
thymus, the assertive,honor-seeking part of the soul.
Plato's idea of thymos, theassertive, honor-seeking part of
the soul, right Aristotlefocused on rationality.
(09:13):
Self-worth came from livingvirtuously, not self-importance.
So again, you know, seeing theego in all of that.
The Stoics this was interestingsaw ego as a barrier to wisdom,
and that barrier is pride,opinion or attachment, and it
urged detachment from externalvalidation and emotional
(09:36):
reactions.
It valued humility andself-mastery.
And this was interesting.
A quote from Epictetus.
Epictetus, epictetus.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
I'm thinking of it, Epictetus.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's not events that disturb us, but our opinions
about them.
And that sort of goes back towhat we were talking about this
morning about judgment.
Right, it's how we look atevents in our life and we judge
them, Everything from you know abig event to a small event.
You know someone cuts you offin the line at the grocery store
(10:19):
or something I don't know, andwe judge that as bad.
Right.
But again, like I said earlier,before we turn on the podcast,
you know who knows we judge itas bad in that moment, but who
knows where that might lead usmoment.
(10:43):
But who knows where that mightlead us?
Right, it might lead us to youknow something great happening,
that that we needed those extrafew minutes waiting in line,
right?
Speaker 1 (10:48):
just something to think about well, and it's just
the difference judgment reallycloses off opportunity.
Right, things are brought to us, sometimes in what we would
interpret as positive ways, orsometimes as negative ways, and
then, because we judge it asnegative, we lose the
(11:09):
opportunity that's inside it.
You know, even being, you know,cut off by somebody in the
grocery store, this could beyour new best friend standing in
front of you, and they mightactually, you know, be be off,
lost in their own thoughts abouttheir own story.
And I didn't even see you there.
I think there's very seldom asanybody actually have a negative
(11:32):
desire.
Very seldom do people want tohurt other people.
They're just trying to advancetheir own interests and get
things going or whatever.
So the point that I'm trying tomake is that when events happen
and we jump to judgment, weclose off a whole world of
growth that could be sittingthere waiting for us.
Within that and in fact it'svery seldom can people look back
(11:56):
on negative events in theirlives.
And if they look back on thosenegative events and say that was
negative and my life was ruinedbecause of it, then they've put
a negative judgment on it andthey didn't learn the lesson
that was waiting there for themin that they didn't learn what
they could have learned fromthat.
And there are others who lookat those events and say, oh geez
(12:16):
, you know, like that, that Iexperienced that really
negatively, but it taught methis and this and this, and
because of that, my whole lifehas gone in a different
trajectory and I've becomereally clear about new ideas and
new purposes.
And and it really is there arepeople who will tell you that
you know that the horriblethings I mean many of these
(12:38):
motivational speakers that weall turn to right, they've had
some negative event in theirlife that they turned into a
positive and we admire thembecause we know how easy it is
for the rest of us to say, holycrap, that was awful, you know
that would have ruined me, right, but it's really.
It comes back to that idea thatour ego is a story we tell
(13:02):
ourselves about ourselves, andyou can really see how it's very
easy to turn that story againstourselves, right?
It's really easy for us tostart to see our lives as a
series of negative events, whichthen means that somehow my life
(13:27):
is no good and that, byimplication, means I'm no good
and that my future is dark, andit's really, you know, when you
step back and say well, if myego is the story I tell myself
about myself, if I couldeliminate this negative judgment
(13:50):
that I fall into and just starttalking about the positive
things, start telling my storyin a way that sounds pretty good
, right?
And not in some conceited,arrogant look at me.
I'm all that in a bag of chipsway.
It's more of being honest aboutyour progress and your
(14:14):
development and your future ashaving infinite possibilities.
The story we tell ourselvesabout ourselves, I think,
creates limits on our future andit creates barriers to new
(14:39):
choices, deciding to dodifferent things.
You know how many people say Ican't do that or I could never
do that or I could never dothose kinds of things, and
that's well.
It's just not true, right?
Any person can do anything ifthey want to put their mind to
(14:59):
it, but it's really a decisionbased on their past to tell
themselves I can't.
I can't do that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
In hypnosis we have a script that is Enhancement,
basically, and it's abouthelping someone just feel like
they can do things right, feellike they can go through their
(15:34):
day feeling better and betterevery single day.
You know, no matter what.
Feeling better and better everysingle day, you know, no matter
what.
And it just made me think justnow about how there's this whole
movement of oh, we got to killthe ego, right.
But I think over the years Iused to think that and over the
(16:00):
years I've started to think moreand more about well, ego is
sort of a little bit of amotivator, right, it motivates
you.
It's when it drives you, it'sthe one in this, you know, in
the, in the driver, in the, inthe car, and you're in the
passenger seat.
That's where it can get out ofhand.
(16:20):
But I think, little kids,unfortunately, we can kill their
egos, right, we can push themdown.
And then you have clientscoming in who need ego boosts.
Right, we need to.
We need to help to motivatethem again, because they've been
(16:41):
told that you know, oh, youcan't do that, or don't let,
don't let it go to your head, orlike.
I've heard a lot of things overthe years about parents not
giving too much praise, right,because we don't, they don't.
They don't want their kids tothink they're all that in a bag
of chips, as we say, right?
(17:01):
So I think ego is important,and maybe I'm getting off track
here, but I think that it's goodto have ego, but let it be in
the passenger seat instead ofthe driver's seat instead of the
driver's seat.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Well, I think the natural tendency is to think of
ego as either this reallyarrogant thing or this really
self-destructive thing, rightand and we don't see the middle
ground at all, we don't see thepossibilities of its.
Well, first of all, we don'tsee that it's actually a neutral
thing.
It is in terms of spiritualadvancement.
(17:47):
We want to be less motivated bythe individual and more and
more motivated by the collective, in other words, to see
ourselves as connected toeverything and have that drive
us.
And so there's a real tendencyin spiritual circles to sort of
look at ego and label it as eviland negative.
(18:10):
And I see how it's possiblethat an incredible focus on
ourselves as as individualsreally inhibits, really inhibits
our, our collective advancement.
But if we were to simplify itand I just really think that
that's a very powerful refrainto say it's just the story I
(18:32):
tell myself about myself, andthat story could actually become
really spiritual, right, I am achild of the universe.
I am filled with unique insightsand abilities and filled with
(18:52):
lovability, filled withcapacities to create.
If that's the story that we'retelling ourselves about
ourselves, then that kind ofstory we can look at others and
say that's the same story forthem.
You know, everyone around me isthis kind of story.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
And so now what I want to do is add details to my
story that enhance that, yeah,that build that inherent beauty
that every human being has inthem, that inherent creativity
and curiosity that every humanbeing has in them, and start
their story there, rather thanstarting your story with your
(19:43):
past yeah and mostly focused onthe negative past yeah, I think
about people that have had, uh,quite deep spiritual experiences
, whether you know.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
They find that in meditation or through plant
medicine, and they talk abouthaving an ego death experience.
And I wonder, you know, I thinkthat's what we've called it.
So people say that their egodied, but I more wonder if it's
(20:18):
more of the death of judgment,the death of separation instead.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
Yeah, ego death is, I think, a great term when what
it means is that I've becomeless focused on me and the way I
interpret the world and becomemore focused on the power of the
collective, the power of ustogether.
You know the, the, the what dothey call it?
(20:46):
The result is greater than thesum of the parts.
When human beings arecollaborative, when human beings
come together, it's amazing thestuff we do.
And when human beings feelisolated, when human beings feel
sort of disconnected, that'swhen they start to really
dysfunction.
(21:07):
And so this idea of beingfocused on me and my story and
becoming focused on us and ourstory, I think that's a really
great use of the concept of egodeath and I also think it's like
you know.
I think about ego being anattachment, like that's a great
word.
You know, we become attached toour story.
(21:28):
It's not just that we have astory, it's that it's my story
and, regardless of what it is,it's my story.
I've not just that we have astory, it's that it's my story
and regardless of what it is,it's my story.
I've gotten used to it.
I've told it to myself a wholebunch of times.
I now believe in it.
Don't tell me that I'm wrong,don't tell me that I don't have
this kind of negative story inme.
(21:48):
And what happens in thatattachment is.
We tell that story to ourselvesover and over and over and it
becomes like a dream state.
It becomes our focus.
It's what's going on in ourmind over and over and over.
It's that idea where our mindhas thoughts 90,000 a day.
Most of them are the same asyesterday and we become really
(22:11):
attached and driving thosethoughts over and over and over.
And to me that's what we meanwhen we say we awaken.
That is a process.
Thinking the same thoughts overand over and over puts you to
sleep.
It puts you deep inside thatlittle world you've created and
the rest of the real worldthat's out there waiting for you
(22:33):
is lost.
You've become completely asleepto the world.
And this is where I like theterm waking up.
I've woken up to thepossibilities that if I use my
mind in a way that builds me,that I can tell a whole new
story, that in fact, I can stopthis story I've been telling
(22:54):
myself.
Right now, I'm just not goingto tell it to myself anymore.
I am now going to consider whatmy story might be.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
And this is where you start to change what you think
every day.
You know, joe Dispenza isreally great at this stuff.
It's really his focus, rightthe idea of telling yourself a
different story so that you openthe possibilities for a very
different life.
If you can't change yourthoughts, you're not going to
change your life.
You've got to change how youthink about your life to be able
(23:23):
to make changes in your life.
So you know, to me it's thatwhen the ego becomes dark and
centralized and becomes a storywe tell ourselves, without
variation, that is inherentlynegative and inherently limited,
we get trapped in it and whenwe break out of it, the ego
(23:48):
death and the waking up into theinfinite possibilities that are
really there for you and youbegin to tell yourself a
different story.
You know, I have talents, Ihave abilities, I have my own
curiosity, I have my owninterests, I have people who
(24:10):
love me and who I love.
I have years ahead of me.
Maybe, if it's even, if it'sonly days, even it's only
minutes, I have time ahead of meto recreate my story.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
That's the beginning of a whole other kind of life
yeah, and even if you know youdon't have to take those 60,000
to 90,000 thoughts a day and andturn every single one on its
head, imagine what it would belike just to take 5% of those
thoughts and and try to make achange, and you know.
(24:49):
At first I can understand whyit might be scary, right?
Because, well, what does itmean about me if I, we don't
want to be wrong?
Right, think about humans.
We don't want to be wrong.
We want our story, our realityto be what we judge as right.
(25:12):
Right, that's why you see peoplefighting about things all over
the internet and face-to-face.
Sometimes it's this idea that Iwant to be the right person, I
don't want to be the wrongperson.
And so to change that and tothink well, maybe there is
another way of thinking, maybethere's another way.
(25:32):
I mean, how many times have wethought, oh, I really want to
try that, I want to.
Maybe, I want to do that.
But then that thought comes upwell, wait a minute, no, I,
that's stupid, or no, I can't dothat.
Right, where did those thoughtscome from?
I bet you, at one, two yearsold, if you wanted to try
(25:55):
something, you've got your handsinto it right, you did it and
and we just have these, thesethoughts that you know we talk
about this all the time.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
They aren't our own, hmm, yeah, we receive all kinds
of interpretations from others.
You know, I think of it just assimply as the difference
between reading a book andwriting a book.
When I'm reading a book, thatstory is the story that I'm in
(26:28):
and I'm going to pursue thatstory and I'm going to pursue
that story.
But it's a wholly differentidea to write a book.
So to think in terms ofyourself, as my ego is telling
me this same story over and overand over, and I'm attached to
it, I'm clinging to it.
For better or worse, it is meand then saying no, no, no, no,
(26:51):
no, I can write a differentstory.
Starting right now, I can writea different story.
So imagine yourself sittingdown and trying to write the
story you're going to tellyourself about yourself.
And start off.
It's a simple, simple exercise.
Take a piece of paper and startto list the good things about
(27:12):
you, the healthy, wonderful,loving, expressive things about
you, the uniqueness and talentsthat you bring to bear on the
world around you.
Start to write the story aboutthis character right.
Finish the sentence I am nowsomething positive, I am
(27:34):
something wonderful, I do thingsthat are really good about what
you do.
Start to rewrite that story inyour mind and see how that feels
, because you're going togenerate some really wild
feelings.
This is not an exercise intrying to create a negative,
(27:55):
positive ego, an arrogant ego.
That's not.
The positive Confidence comesfrom knowing that you can handle
what life has to offer.
So what are the characteristicsabout you?
And one of the characteristicsthat are is about everybody.
Everyone learns, everyone hasthe capacity to learn and grow,
(28:18):
and everyone has the capacity tocreate Right.
To create right and so to befocused on that stuff very
future oriented stuff, so thatour story is being written in
the context of the future, notthe context of the past.
Ego is just a story we tellourselves about ourselves.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
It's time to tell a better story yeah, yeah, my
brain is just swirling, my mindis swirling.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
So you know, I'm so lucky that you folks out there
come and see me for hypnosis.
You teach me so much aboutmyself and you remind me of all
those really important thingsfor myself.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Yeah, fascinating.
All right, I'm just like mythoughts are swirling, like I
said.
But yeah, we'll continue thisdiscussion later.
(29:30):
See you later.
We hope you enjoyed today'spodcast and that maybe it helped
even a little.
If you have any questions, wewould love you to send them
along in an email to info atpsalmhypnosiscom.
Thank you for being part of theState of Mind community.
For more information abouthypnosis and the various online
(29:50):
or in-person services we provide, please visit our website,
wwwpsalmhypnosiscom.
The link will be in the notesbelow.
While you are there, why don'tyou book a free one-hour journey
, meeting with Hilary or Les tolearn more about what hypnosis
is and how you might use it tomake your life what you want it
to be?
Bye for now.
(30:11):
Talk to you tomorrow, thank you.
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