Interview with Lyndsey Troccoli, LMFT
Connect with Lyndsey on Instagram @theraputicallythinking
Lyndsey's website: https://www.maternalmindscounseling.com/
Motherhood transforms us in ways we never imagined—yet the mental health challenges that accompany this transformation often remain hidden beneath layers of shame, comparison, and the pressure to "just focus on the positive." In this deeply personal and illuminating conversation, licensed marriage and family therapist Lyndsey Troccoli guides us through the unique mental health landscape of every motherhood season.
From the silent suffering of fertility struggles to the hormone-fueled rollercoaster of perimenopause, Lyndsey offers both professional insight and lived experience as she addresses the questions many mothers are afraid to ask aloud. What happens when grief and joy collide after pregnancy loss? How can we recognize the difference between "baby blues" and serious postpartum mental health concerns? Why does the mental load of motherhood sometimes make us feel like we're losing our minds?
Perhaps most powerfully, Lyndsey challenges the notion that we must suppress difficult emotions to access positive ones. "There's no reason why you can't be devastatingly sad and totally joyful," she explains, revealing how giving space to all our emotions actually prevents the difficult ones from drowning out our capacity for happiness.
Through practical strategies like creating a "task list" for those who offer help, organizing priorities to eliminate unnecessary shame, and maintaining a daily "proof log" of personal capability, Lyndsey provides a roadmap for navigating motherhood's mental health challenges with greater self-compassion and support.
Whether you're struggling to conceive, drowning in postpartum anxiety, feeling overwhelmed by the invisible labor of raising humans, or facing the identity shifts of perimenopause—this conversation reminds us that seeking help isn't a sign of weakness, but often the very thing that prevents our struggles from becoming unmanageable.
Join us for this crucial discussion about maternal mental health, and discover why accepting support through every season might be the most important gift you can give yourself and your family.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ciera (00:03):
You're listening to Confidently Beautiful with Ciera
, a podcast to help you stayconfidently beautiful, because
we all have confidence inside us.
We just need to bring it outand I'm here to show you how
Body image, dreams, parenting,style, personality and more here
we cover it all.
Get ready to stay confidentlybeautiful.
Welcome back to ConfidentlyBeautiful.
(00:29):
Today's episode is one that Ihave been looking forward to,
because we're going to dive intosomething that every mom
experiences but doesn't alwaystalk about.
It's something that's nottalked about a ton, but we're
going to be talking about mentalhealth through every season of
motherhood.
I am joined by Lyndsey Troccoli, a licensed marriage and family
therapist, who specializes inwomen's health and trauma and
neurodivergence.
(00:49):
So, whether you're trying toconceive, maybe you're in the
thick of postpartum, maybeyou're past having babies stages
but you're still trying toraise your little tiny humans,
or maybe you're navigatingperimenopause, I think this
conversation will meet you whereyou are and, hopefully, will be
really helpful.
So, lindsay, I'm so happyyou're here.
Can you tell us a little aboutyourself?
Lyndsey (01:08):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I originally actually studiedsomething totally different than
mental health and then startednavigating some mental health
struggles myself.
That led me to kind of decideto look into being a therapist
and specifically navigated a lotof infertility struggles myself
.
That kind of led me to where Iam today.
Ciera (01:27):
Tell me about your family.
Now, you do have a family, sotell me about them.
Lyndsey (01:31):
Yeah, so I have two little boys, luca and Leo.
Luca is four and Leo is justabout to turn three.
I am married.
I met my husband through work.
He is originally from Italy.
He immigrated here when he wasabout 14 years old and we live
in Las Vegas, nevada.
Ciera (01:49):
Great, and you just came back from Italy, right?
Lyndsey (01:52):
We did.
It was so good and so hard.
Ciera (01:55):
Yeah, I imagine, with two little boys.
So Lyndsey is actually mycousin and so I got to see a
little bit of the glimpses ofthe behind the scenes and all
the things and Marco Polo andour family chat and yeah, it was
probably a challenge, I wouldimagine, but definitely worth
all the memories.
Lyndsey (02:12):
A hundred percent it was so good.
Ciera (02:14):
Well, let's dive into today's episode and kind of I
want to just touch on everystage of motherhood that we can.
So let's start with the very,very beginning trying to
conceive.
Whether you're trying toconceive and you're, you're not
necessarily having fertilityproblems, but you're just
deciding if it's time to startyour family or if you are having
fertility struggles.
(02:35):
There's a lot of people whohave walked this hard road.
I've walked this road, you'vewalked this road.
Can you kind of talk a littlebit about how women can care for
their mental health duringfertility struggles or even
after loss?
Lyndsey (02:48):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I think one of the biggestthings that I see people doing
is this attempt to shove downthe grief or to not let yourself
sit with it.
I think women especially have atendency to want to avoid the
pain, or they'll even diminishtheir pain and try to just focus
on the positive.
Or they'll even diminish theirpain and try to just focus on
the positive, or they'll tellthemselves like it's not that
serious, or someone else has itworse, or you know, I have all
(03:11):
of these good things going on inmy life.
I just need to figure out howto focus on that.
Um, and that's rarely effective.
It almost never is helpful.
Um, grief really does need spaceto be processed.
Um, that kind of involvesvalidating that the loss is real
, whether you never conceived oryou lost a child early into
gestation, which kind of leadsme to another huge thing that I
(03:33):
recommend is that at whateverstage you're in in that process,
you really have to figure outhow to have healthy boundaries,
whether that's getting help withfiguring out how to set that
boundaries.
There are tons of books andfree resources online that can
kind of help navigate thatprocess, but it might look like
letting your pregnant friendsknow that you need some space
(03:54):
and that you're going to take astep away from a friendship or
staying off of forums and socialmedia if you find that that is
negatively impacting you.
I know that sometimes thosethings can be helpful, but so
many people that I talk to findthat those things exacerbate
their symptoms and thatcomparison just kind of ends up
running rampant.
There are a lot of otherstrategies that I would
(04:15):
recommend, but I think those arethe main two that I really
encourage women to try out.
Ciera (04:19):
That's really good.
I'm going to put you on thespot with like a little example.
Yeah, good, I'm going to putyou on the spot with like a
little example.
And so you know but ourlisteners probably don't know
with my second pregnancy it waswith twins and I ended up having
one healthy baby but I did losethe other baby.
So how do you like that was areally big struggle.
I mean, this was eight yearsago, so I think I've done pretty
(04:41):
well at being able to workthrough it but that was a
struggle.
Going back then to think, howdo I be happy for this baby that
I do have but then also grievethe loss of the other one?
But then I think this couldalso relate to maybe not
somebody who, like, in the samepregnancy had one but lost one,
but later on, like they, maybethey lost one but then they do
have a pregnancy.
(05:01):
I just need to be grateful forthe kids.
Lyndsey (05:02):
I have Like they.
Maybe they lost one, but thenthey do have a pregnant.
I just need to be grateful forthe kids I have.
Ciera (05:05):
Like yeah, yes, exactly.
So just I mean, I know that'sso big and kind of like a hard
thing to say like over just apodcast interview, but do you
have like anything that couldhelp a woman grieve that loss
but also be grateful and happy?
Lyndsey (05:19):
Yeah, I mean, like you said, like it it really is
similar, like what yoursituation that you described is
very similar to women who havesecondary infertility, which is,
you know, when you've alreadybeen able to conceive and have a
child, and then you struggledown the road after, even like
your second child or your thirdchild, you want to have more and
you're unable to, for whateverreason.
And that actually is one ofthose ones that's like really
(05:42):
pervasive and really tricky,because women do tell themselves
like at least da, da, da, da,da da.
Or I need to look on the brightside, which is that I have
these beautiful children.
Or, for you, I need to justfocus on the fact that I have
one healthy baby and I shouldjust be so grateful for that.
And there's no reason why thosetwo things can't coexist.
(06:02):
There's no reason why you can'tbe devastatingly sad and totally
joyful, and I think that we tryto figure out how to avoid the
uncomfortable emotions and justimmerse ourselves in the
positive ones.
But usually what I see whenthat happens is it ends up
stripping away the positive ones.
The grief gets so loud andtries so hard to take up space
(06:23):
in your brain because you'reignoring it that it crowds out
any joy or happiness that youcould actually have, and
sometimes we see that show up asanxiety.
Sometimes we see that show upas unresolved trauma down the
road.
Sometimes we even see that showup as like attachment issues
when the healthy baby is born orlike survivor's guilt issues,
like there's so many things thatcan kind of come about from
(06:46):
this.
But if you can let yourselfhave both which means fully
recognizing the grief, fullyallowing yourself to sit in the
sadness or whatever that mightbe it gives that part of you a
voice and then that part of youstops screaming so loud and you
can start to pay attention tothe other voice as well.
Ciera (07:04):
It's hard when you have two voices at the same time.
Lyndsey (07:06):
You know we all do though.
We all have these little partsof us that like chime in and you
hear people describe it all thetime, like there's a part of me
that feels this way but there'sthis other part of me that
feels this way.
Well, both parts are you, andif you try and suppress one,
it's actually going to getpretty irritated and it's going
to get louder and louder andlouder until it's the loudest
voice in your head.
(07:27):
So quit trying to suppress them.
Have gratitude that they allexist.
They're all trying to serve apurpose.
Like usually, those griefvoices or those sad voices are
actually trying to protect youfrom hurt.
So if we can find space forboth voices without trying to
ignore one, it will prevent itfrom getting way louder in your
head.
Ciera (07:47):
That's really good advice.
I love that you say like we allhave them, like it doesn't have
to be this situation.
It's going to be like you knowlike we all have.
Lyndsey (07:55):
all the time I hear people like talking in that kind
of terminology and they don'tnecessarily realize that they're
talking in like IFS or parts orEMDR terminology, but they are.
That's how we all process.
Our emotions is in differentparts of us that show up because
of different experiences anddifferent beliefs, and all of
them are still parts of us.
Ciera (08:16):
No, I love that.
I'm going to remember that.
How can women cope with theemotional rollercoaster of
infertility, pregnancy loss?
Men cope with the emotionalroller coaster of infertility,
pregnancy loss, but also stillfeel hopeful, or maybe in terms
with the fact that maybe whatthey had in mind isn't going to
come about the way they thought.
Lyndsey (08:34):
Yeah, I love that you added that caveat at the end,
because I think this does kindof go back to the issue with
shoving it down and trying tojust be positive.
Um, because I do find thatthat's one of the most damaging
things that women can do.
Um, and I think that hope canplay such a huge role.
But I found that, especiallywith women who've been battling
infertility for a long time, um,platitudes like your time will
(08:58):
come or it will happen when thetime is right, or you could
always just adopt, those end upfeeling really triggering and
actually pretty invalidating.
It's not that they're not true.
Maybe it will happen eventually, maybe you can adopt.
It just is invalidating of thegrief and the experience that
women are actually going throughin those moments.
And another reality that weneed to acknowledge is what you
(09:21):
just said Like, sometimes itdoesn't ever happen the way that
we want it to.
Sometimes women never conceive,despite all of their efforts to
make it happen.
And if we can't recognize that,we're just perpetuating the
avoidance of the grief thatreally does need to have a space
to be worked through.
That doesn't mean that youdon't feel hope.
(09:46):
It just means that you alsoleave space for grief.
Ciera (09:50):
So going into pregnancy, pregnancy can bring so many
unexpected mental healthchallenges.
I mean so even if you didn'twalk through the fertility and
trying to conceive, all of that,like maybe you were fine then.
But then you get pregnant andyou're all of a sudden like, oh,
like what is going on with me.
Uh, what would women, whatshould they look for?
What should women look for andlook out for during this time,
(10:12):
Cause it can seem so foreign andweird.
Lyndsey (10:15):
Yeah, totally so.
Um, I'll go through this listbut I'll also share that Like.
If there was any part of thispodcast that women shared with
their partners, that wouldactually be really, really
helpful.
Because sometimes, when you'rein the thick of it, you don't
even if you know what to lookfor, you don't recognize it when
it comes.
But your partner is likely tonotice a shift.
Your like partner may be likelyto notice behavioral changes.
(10:37):
And if you're navigatingpregnancy as a single parent,
tell a close friend, tell aparent, tell them that these are
the things that you know mightend up showing up in pregnancy,
and ask for them to kind of keepa close eye on those things.
So first, postpartum depressionis a huge one post-pregnancy.
I think this is the one thatmost people are familiar with
(10:58):
and it would look likepersistent sadness, numbness,
hopelessness, irritability,maybe even rage.
Postpartum anxiety is anotherone that is more commonly talked
about.
I think more people arefamiliar with that one.
It doesn't look like yourstereotypical baby blues, so
sometimes it is a little bitmore dismissed in women
themselves, but the peoplearound them will likely notice
(11:22):
it can look some of it can beinternal Like.
It can look like racingthoughts or constant worries or
difficulty sleeping, even whenyour baby's sleeping rage is a
big one.
Usually it spills over.
Like you talk to other peopleabout your worries, it's like,
well, what if this, what if this, what if this, what if this?
And people will start to noticechanges in the way that you're
behaving and ideally you kind ofwould start to notice it too
(11:44):
notice changes in the way thatyou're behaving, and ideally you
kind of would start to noticeit too.
Another that I'll just kind oftouch on, even though they are
less common and I want to makesure that saying these doesn't
trigger anxiety for women whoare already worried about what
this could look like.
This can happen during pregnancyor postpartum, but we see that
it's actually pretty common toget intrusive thoughts or
(12:04):
postpartum OCD, and it's waymore common than people think.
The reason why it doesn't gettalked about as much is because
it is usually steeped in shame.
Some of those thoughts can getpretty violent or graphic and
people are very, very hesitantto share them.
So usually by the time someonecomes to me and actually shares
what some of those thoughts orimages look like, they're
(12:26):
already to the point thatthey've developed a lot of
really negative beliefs aboutthemselves.
So the more we can talk aboutthis, the more we can normalize
it, the sooner people can gethelp and realize that, like,
those thoughts are not them,they're not in line with their
values, and it's okay to talkabout them.
And then the last one is super,super rare to talk about them.
(12:46):
And then the last one is super,super rare.
So I bring it up only becauseit is like a pretty serious
issue If people don't know thatit's possible and it's
postpartum psychosis that canlook like really strongly held
delusional beliefs,hallucinations, severe confusion
or disorientation, really manicmoods, drastic behavioral
changes Again super, super rare,but it can be really serious if
(13:10):
it's missed or left untreated.
So I always like to make sure Imention it.
Ciera (13:14):
And any of those happen alone, or are they usually?
Lyndsey (13:18):
all overlapped with each other.
It can be singular, only onehappening, or it can be multiple
.
Ciera (13:25):
And what is the reason behind all of these struggles
that can happen postpartum.
Is it the hormone changes, theshifts?
Does your mind, like your brain, actually change when you have
a baby?
Lyndsey (13:36):
Yeah, all of the above, and then I would also add that,
like there's so many externalchanges that lead to stress and
sleep deprivation and all ofthese other external factors
that we know impact how yourbrain's functioning, what
hormones are or are not beingreleased, the chemicals in your
brain being out of whack,there's all kinds of things that
(13:59):
can factor into that, and Ialso think sometimes I tell
people that it needs to be okayfor us not to determine a why,
just to be able to acknowledgethat it's happening and then
just get support on the otherside of that.
Ciera (14:12):
That's good too.
That's me the overthinker I'mlike.
But why is this happening?
I?
Lyndsey (14:16):
want to know.
Yeah, sometimes we know, andsometimes we just don't, and so
it needs to be okay If you neverreally figure out your why.
Ciera (14:24):
What?
What would you say to a mom whojust feels off or is wondering
if they have any of these, likehow do they even get help?
Lyndsey (14:32):
Yeah, so I think there's this like common theme
of not just in pregnancy, likewomen in general often struggle
to get help because they havethis assumption that like they
don't have it as bad as someoneelse, or that what they're
experiencing isn't bad enough,or that they might just be like
a bad mom or a bad human or alazy mom or a lazy human, and
(14:53):
it's just a fallacy.
But what I usually say is thatthe sooner you can get help, the
better, and often thedifference between it being not
bad enough and definitely badenough comes down to whether or
not you got the help.
So, even if it's justpreventative, go get the help so
it doesn't get bad enough.
Ciera (15:13):
I always think like a therapist should be someone you
like, just go see regularly likeyour regular doctor.
Just go and just say the thingsand then maybe you'll discover,
oh, I actually should probablybe making this more regular or
maybe you're okay and like youcan keep going, but I think a
check in is so valuable.
Lyndsey (15:29):
Yeah, I like to tell clients all the time like I feel
like I've done a lot of workmyself.
I've done extensive therapy andI still regularly check in with
a therapist.
Ciera (15:41):
What can I mean?
A lot of those things that canhappen.
They're out of our control,right their hormones, their
emotions, their changes in ourbody and our environment.
But what are some tangiblethings that our listeners could
do, if they're pregnant orpostpartum, that could try and
help to?
I don't want to say like avoidthese things, because sometimes
(16:02):
it's unavoidable, right, totally, but something that they are
like.
Are there anything that youwould suggest that they do just
to try and make it moremanageable and also be more
aware, besides letting a lovedone know to watch out for them?
Lyndsey (16:15):
Yeah.
So I think part of the problemwith when I make these
suggestions is that, again,women struggle so much to do
things for themselves.
So I'm going to make them andalso just say out loud that,
like you gotta you gotta ask forhelp.
You gotta do things foryourself.
And the biggest thing that Irecommend to women is to ask for
(16:37):
and actively seek out help.
You're going to hear people allday long that are going to send
you texts or call and be likehow can I help?
Let me know if I can help, andthen like nothing happens.
Right, and it's great thatpeople offer that, but very few
people just show up and do itwithout you asking.
So what that means is you'regoing to have to do something
about it yourself.
(16:58):
So I'll often encourageespecially new moms or soon to
be delivering moms to make alist of all the things that they
think they need to do.
So if you walked home today,what's on your to-do list?
Write it all down.
Then I ask them to send thatlist to every single person who
offered them help.
Send it in a text, send it inan email.
Send it in a text.
Send it in an email, send itout.
(17:20):
Send a text in conjunction withthat saying how much you
appreciate the offer and that ifthere's anything on that list
that they feel comfortablehelping with, that, that would
make the biggest difference forthem.
It's super uncomfortable andwomen are really resistant to it
.
But what I can tell you with100% confidence is if I received
that kind of text message, Iwould absolutely take something
(17:41):
off the list and do it, and Iimagine you would say the same
thing.
Oh for sure, you have to startasking, and it's truly the only
way to get what you need.
The other huge piece that Irecommend is to start people are
really resistant to this onetoo.
Start organizing your life intoabsolute priorities so what I
mean by that is someone woulddie if I don't do this or
(18:04):
secondary priorities dishes,laundry, sweeping, that kind of
thing.
Work, if possible, with atherapist to recognize that
you're in a phase of life wherethose secondary priorities might
have to take a back seat.
Your laundry might pile up, youmay always have dirty dishes in
your sink and you're going tohave to do some work again,
(18:25):
ideally with someone who canhelp you through it, to minimize
the shame around this and toremind yourself that this is not
forever.
I totally recognize that if younever did those things it would
become a problem.
You'd run out of clothes anddishes.
But I really try to work withclients to see how that demand
can be decreased as much as ishumanly possible.
And then let the shame go.
(18:46):
It's fine.
It's okay that your dishes aredirty.
It's okay that maybe you didthe laundry but then you threw
all of the clean clothes into abasket and you never sorted
through the basket and you'rejust dressing your clothes, your
kids, in wrinkly clothes, likeall of those things are
secondary priorities andnobody's going to die.
Ciera (19:04):
I really love that, that like cause that puts it into
perspective, like it's going tobe okay and going back to your
first suggestion about the list,and like I can just like I'm
trying to envision myself likecould I do that?
Like I don't know?
That feels so uncomfortable,but I do know, like you said, if
somebody sent that to me Iwouldn't think twice.
Lyndsey (19:24):
I would be like I would actually probably be grateful
that they actually gave mesuggestions because I didn't
have to try and get come up withwhat would actually yeah, yeah,
and I don't tell them whatwe're going to do with the list
until after they make the list.
So I say, hey, we're going tomake a list of all of the things
that if you were to go homeright now you think you need to
do.
We're going to make your to-dolist.
(19:45):
And generally they think I'mlike going to help them task
chunk or some sort of like ADHDstrategy, and then we kind of
flip-flop it and immediatelythere's like a recoil, like oh
my gosh, I could never.
But I actually kind of treat itthe same way.
I would treat like OCDstrategies, which is like okay,
then let's start really small.
Who's one person that you couldsend that to that you wouldn't
(20:05):
feel crippling shame?
Let's send it to that person,let's get the evidence that they
don't respond negatively, andthen let's try the next least
scary person and you kind ofwork your way through the list
that way.
Ciera (20:16):
Really smart Not to I don't say this to like pat
myself on the back, butsomething I've learned kind of
along that that I actually justdid with my friend.
Her baby just had heart surgery.
She's only six weeks old, andso I just sent my friend a text
and said here are some thingsthat I can do for you.
And I gave her three optionsand I was like which one can I
do for you?
And she her response back she'slike that was so nice and I
(20:37):
have so many options and likeand so and I think it also
helped it helped me to feel likeI was helping but also not
stepping on her toes, cause Idon't, I don't want to come into
her home if she's notcomfortable yet with visitors,
cause the surgery or you knowall these things.
So I just gave her threeoptions and she picked from
there.
Lyndsey (20:54):
And I love that.
And if listeners wanted to knowwhat they could do for
pregnancy or infertility orpostpartum moms, 100%, that
would be top of my list.
Fewer and far between, though,that people actually do that.
So if that's not going tohappen super regularly, we still
have to find a way to like getthrough it, yeah, and so to have
(21:16):
your own list to send to them,that's great, that's so great.
Ciera (21:19):
Okay, let's transition into motherhood and mental load,
which is huge.
Mental load is like a huge partof being a mom.
I mean, I think women ingeneral just carry a big mental
load.
How does the invisible mentalload of motherhood impact a
woman's health like long term?
I mean, it can do it short-term, but what about long-term as
(21:40):
well?
Lyndsey (21:41):
Yeah.
So what I actually see is itcan lead to a really huge
cognitive strain, and I usuallydon't see people in my office
until this is already happeningand it's gotten pretty bad.
So it can get so bad that itcan actually mimic the symptoms
of ADHD or even early cognitivedecline.
So I'll frequently hear womensaying that they feel insane or
(22:01):
that they think they're losingtheir minds, and it usually is
attributable to that invisiblemental load that so many women
just actively pass off as notbeing that bad or feeling like
they should be able to handle it.
I actually like I've even seenpeople with concerns about early
dementia.
I'll have women come in andtell me that they've started
(22:24):
like Googling symptoms aroundthat because they're concerned
that that's happening to them.
And then we start to dig in andwe realize like okay, there are
some very clear indicators ofwhat's going on here and as we
work through those and work todecrease the mental load, we see
a lot of that resolve.
Ciera (22:43):
Okay, so is it curable, is it fixable, or is that
cognitive decline kind ofpermanently there?
Lyndsey (22:50):
No, totally, totally fixable.
I mean, obviously, short of youactually having some sort of
decline, which is a thing, andyou know ADHD does often
manifest itself in motherhood,so it could be mimicking ADHD
symptoms or it could just beADHD.
But if it is a cognitivedecline due to invisible mental
(23:12):
load, there are absolutelythings that can be done about
that and ways that you canmitigate some of that stress.
Ciera (23:17):
I feel like undiagnosed or late diagnosed ADHD is like
the big thing on social mediaright now.
Do you think that a lot ofthose people that are saying
they have undiagnosed orundetected ADHD like do you
think that they more likely havelike a mental load I don't know
(23:39):
the word like effects from amental load, or do you think it
really is?
There really is an increase inADHD diagnosis.
Lyndsey (23:46):
Yeah, so I guess I should answer that question
first.
100%, I think that there is anincrease in accurate ADHD
diagnoses and I think that thisis due to partially, women being
more willing to accept that.
Think it's due to an increasein access to information where
(24:15):
people can see things and belike hang on, that does sound
familiar.
Maybe I should look into this alittle bit more.
I also think it's due to bettertesting and a better
understanding of what ADHD doeslook like in women.
Specifically, all of thediagnostic criteria and most of
the assessments that we haveaccess to today and for sure, in
recent history, were based offof young white boys.
(24:39):
That was it.
It shows up entirely differentin females.
It shows up entirely differentacross races.
We were missing a huge chunk ofthe population when we
originally wrote a lot of thisdiagnostic criteria, and so,
yeah, there's going to be anincrease as we start to
recognize the mistakes that wereoriginally made and then
(25:02):
attempt to rectify them.
Ciera (25:04):
Wow, that's very interesting.
I wonder what made them choosethat demographic, that specific
demographic you know and notyeah, because obviously,
unfortunately, historically,that that is the demographic
that was chosen.
It's true If you look at ourAmerican history.
Lyndsey (25:20):
And world history, like when you look at diagnostic
criteria across the board.
A majority of assessments and,like I said, diagnostic criteria
was was written for straightwhite men.
Interesting, so yeah we have along way to go in a lot of areas
with our testing and ourstudies.
Ciera (25:42):
What are some powerful things, but also not too
overwhelming things, that momscan do to help them in the thick
of raising kids?
Lyndsey (25:51):
Yeah, I think that there's a lot of things that we
could talk about there.
I think that there's a fewthings that I try and do on a
daily basis that I hesitate tolike give a list, because I
think that we already have somany lists that are running
through our heads that it cansometimes start to feel really
overwhelming to add anotherthing to a list.
So these are things that I justrecommend making part of a
(26:14):
lifestyle as opposed to likeanother checklist.
So, getting outside you've gotto get outside, you've got to be
able to like have sunshine onyour face and breathe some fresh
air.
That's a huge one.
The next one is paying attentionto triggers that make
motherhood more difficult foryou.
(26:34):
So for me, I noticed that, likeauditory input made being a
grounded and regulated momnearly impossible.
So I do things like using loopearplugs or blasting really loud
raging music every once in awhile so I can drown out certain
noises or, you know, having afriend who I can call and vent
(26:56):
to and have them just listen.
All of these things are thingsthat you can incorporate into
daily life that don'tnecessarily need to become
another checklist.
Ciera (27:07):
Perimenopause.
So, you're done having kids,you're in perimenopause.
Or maybe you didn't have anybiological children, but you're
still you're entering thatperimenopause.
Or maybe you didn't have anybiological children, but you're
entering that perimenopausephase.
They can sometimes feelblindsided.
I didn't really know about ituntil I watched my mom go
through it, and then I also havea friend who's going through it
as well, and so what shouldthey know about how it can
(27:28):
affect their mental health?
Lyndsey (27:30):
Yeah, this is super important and I feel like it's
another one of thosedemographics that just kind of
gets ignored and it's justtotally wrong and something
where we can just do so muchbetter.
But I'll just talk about a fewof the things that could maybe
help people be a little bit moreprepared.
Mood changes can be superintense.
Your estrogen and yourprogesterone fluctuate, which
(27:52):
directly affects serotonin andGABA, which are key mood
regulating chemicals, so youcould suddenly start being
really irritable or emotionalweepy out of nowhere.
You could also experienceintense brain fog, trouble
focusing, forgetting words.
Again, this is one of thoseareas where women start to get
worried about early dementia.
Your sleep can be superdisrupted, which again also
(28:14):
impacts mood and regulation.
You might have anxiety anddepression for the first time in
your life, when you neverstruggled with that before.
Additionally, autism, adhd andother neurodivergence might
become more obvious inperimenopause because executive
functioning can totally tank.
There are also some intensestruggles with identity during
(28:35):
this time.
So I often recommend thatpeople start tracking patterns.
This can help connect hormonechanges or even give your doctor
more data if it's notnecessarily explainable by
hormone changes.
Don't dismiss symptoms.
Don't undertreat yourself.
There are a lot of optionshormone therapies, adhd meds,
antidepressants, moodstabilizers, trauma therapies,
(28:58):
regulation skills, sensoryskills that can help with some
of this, so don't dismiss them.
The other thing that I alwaysrecommend is to protect your
sleep as much as is humanlypossible.
Obviously, this is not medicaladvice and people should be
speaking to a doctor beforedoing any of these things, but
if you're struggling with sleep,you could try things like
(29:20):
magnesium, sensory strategies,cbt for insomnia, and all of
those things can be reallybeneficial in making sure that
the sleep doesn't become anissue, because if the sleep
becomes an issue, everythingelse gets worse.
And then, lastly, I tell peopleto really make some space to
let themselves grieve theirchanging roles and to try to
(29:42):
create something that is justtheirs.
So it doesn't necessarily meanthat you have to rush to be a
new person or to not giveyourself the time to grieve, but
it can be helpful to start somesort of creative hobby or
passion project, not necessarilyto be productive, but to
continue to feel like you'readding value into your own life.
Ciera (30:02):
Those are good suggestions.
What are some identity shiftsthat women experience during
this mid lifetime and how canthey stay grounded?
You mentioned like coming upwith a hobby, but how can they
stay grounded and still feelconfidence and joy through these
changes?
Lyndsey (30:17):
Yeah.
So I think that some of thebiggest identity shifts I see
happen with the change from likerearing kids to being an empty
nester.
Not that that's necessarily themost difficult one or the one
that matters most, but that'swhere I see most women coming in
for support.
I think that there's like thisidea that, unfortunately, is
(30:39):
pretty pervasive from a societalstandpoint that once we're
finished raising kids, we're notproductive anymore, we're not
adding value anymore, and partof that comes down to really
getting in touch with who youactually are as a person outside
of motherhood, and I stronglyencourage women to do this even
when they're in the trenches.
Get yourself some time away,continue to have creative
(31:00):
hobbies, continue to havefriendships and connections and
relationships outside of whatyou're doing as a mom.
If that hasn't been possible,or if you're now in
perimenopause and you neverreally got a chance to do those
things, that's where I wouldtell people to start.
Figure out who you are.
Maybe this looks like startingsome sort of journaling
exploration that then translatesinto real life experience.
(31:22):
Go, try new things that younever thought you would try
before.
Meet people who are totallyoutside of your normal comfort
zone and see what feels good,see what doesn't.
Ciera (31:34):
I heard on a podcast that she called it, instead of
the empty nester phase, shecalled it the open door phase.
Love that.
I really loved that because Ithought like yeah, her kids can
always come home with their opendoor, but also going along with
, like what you said, figuring-out who they are like it's a new
open door for them to figureout who they are outside of
being a mother.
Yeah, totally.
Thank you so much, lindsay.
This was really helpful and Ithink it should be helpful for
(31:56):
every mom, but I think also forevery friend who has somebody in
their life that's in one ofthese phases Another mom who has
somebody, like a daughter, whomight be in this phase, sisters
I think it's gonna be helpfulfor everyone to listen.
So thank you for sharing all ofyour knowledge and everything,
and where can listeners connectwith you and maybe learn more
about your work?
Lyndsey (32:16):
So I do have an Instagram.
It's at therapeuticallythinking and people can
definitely connect with me there.
They also can see more aboutlike my work specifically and
what my clinic specializes in atmaternalmindscounselingcom.
Ciera (32:32):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, and I loveto ask all of my interview
guests one question.
So what is one thing that youdo every day, or try to do every
day, that helps you to feelmore confident?
Lyndsey (32:43):
Okay, I feel like there's a few things, but one of
the things that ties in withwhat we've been talking about is
I try to keep what I call aproof log.
So on a daily basis, I havelike a little app that I do this
through, but on a daily basis Iwrite down one thing from my
day that gave me proof of mycapability or my resilience or
(33:05):
my growth or or whatever itmight be.
It's it's like a CBT basedskill, but maybe it's like
sometimes for me it's like Iremembered every single
appointment I had booked today,or it's like I was able to not
yell at my kids when I feltsuper, super frustrated.
So it's just writing down onepiece of proof that I am
(33:28):
competent or I am resilient or Iam capable.
Ciera (33:31):
I love that.
Thank you, yeah, you bet, ifthey think it's helpful for them
.
I think it's so fun to hearwhat everyone does.
So thank you so much, Lyndsey,and thank you for tuning in and
listening, and I will talk toyou next week.
I finally have an emailnewsletter and I'm so excited.
I have put together a brand newwebsite,
(33:52):
confidentlybeautifulwithciera.
com C-I-E-R-A.
com, and you can sign up for mynewsletter there.
I will have a newsletter fullof my favorite things podcast
episodes that maybe you havemissed.
Anything beauty and self-carerelated is going to be there.
It's going to be full of thingsthat I hope would bring some
(34:13):
value to you.
So if this is something thatyou are interested in signing up
for, head on to my website,confidentlybeautifulwithciera.
com, and sign up for thenewsletter, or you can click the
link in my bio or in the shownotes and it will take you
directly there, and I can't waitto be in your inbox.
Thanks for listening.
Connect with me on instagram atconfidently beautiful podcast
(34:34):
and share this episode withsomeone in your life who could
use a little reminder of justhow amazing they already are.
Stay confidently beautiful.
You're listening to Confidently Beautiful with Ciera
, a podcast to help you stayconfidently beautiful, because
we all have confidence inside us.
We just need to bring it outand I'm here to show you how
Body image, dreams, parenting,style, personality and more here
we cover it all.
Get ready to stay confidentlybeautiful.
Welcome back to ConfidentlyBeautiful.
(00:29):
Today's episode is one that Ihave been looking forward to,
because we're going to dive intosomething that every mom
experiences but doesn't alwaystalk about.
It's something that's nottalked about a ton, but we're
going to be talking about mentalhealth through every season of
motherhood.
I am joined by Lyndsey Troccoli, a licensed marriage and family
therapist, who specializes inwomen's health and trauma and
neurodivergence.
(00:49):
So, whether you're trying toconceive, maybe you're in the
thick of postpartum, maybeyou're past having babies stages
but you're still trying toraise your little tiny humans,
or maybe you're navigatingperimenopause, I think this
conversation will meet you whereyou are and, hopefully, will be
really helpful.
So, lindsay, I'm so happyyou're here.
Can you tell us a little aboutyourself?
Lyndsey (01:08):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I originally actually studiedsomething totally different than
mental health and then startednavigating some mental health
struggles myself.
That led me to kind of decideto look into being a therapist
and specifically navigated a lotof infertility struggles myself
.
That kind of led me to where Iam today.
Ciera (01:27):
Tell me about your family.
Now, you do have a family, sotell me about them.
Lyndsey (01:31):
Yeah, so I have two little boys, luca and Leo.
Luca is four and Leo is justabout to turn three.
I am married.
I met my husband through work.
He is originally from Italy.
He immigrated here when he wasabout 14 years old and we live
in Las Vegas, nevada.
Ciera (01:49):
Great, and you just came back from Italy, right?
Lyndsey (01:52):
We did.
It was so good and so hard.
Ciera (01:55):
Yeah, I imagine, with two little boys.
So Lyndsey is actually mycousin and so I got to see a
little bit of the glimpses ofthe behind the scenes and all
the things and Marco Polo andour family chat and yeah, it was
probably a challenge, I wouldimagine, but definitely worth
all the memories.
Lyndsey (02:12):
A hundred percent it was so good.
Ciera (02:14):
Well, let's dive into today's episode and kind of I
want to just touch on everystage of motherhood that we can.
So let's start with the very,very beginning trying to
conceive.
Whether you're trying toconceive and you're, you're not
necessarily having fertilityproblems, but you're just
deciding if it's time to startyour family or if you are having
fertility struggles.
(02:35):
There's a lot of people whohave walked this hard road.
I've walked this road, you'vewalked this road.
Can you kind of talk a littlebit about how women can care for
their mental health duringfertility struggles or even
after loss?
Lyndsey (02:48):
Yeah, absolutely so.
I think one of the biggestthings that I see people doing
is this attempt to shove downthe grief or to not let yourself
sit with it.
I think women especially have atendency to want to avoid the
pain, or they'll even diminishtheir pain and try to just focus
on the positive.
Or they'll even diminish theirpain and try to just focus on
the positive, or they'll tellthemselves like it's not that
serious, or someone else has itworse, or you know, I have all
(03:11):
of these good things going on inmy life.
I just need to figure out howto focus on that.
Um, and that's rarely effective.
It almost never is helpful.
Um, grief really does need spaceto be processed.
Um, that kind of involvesvalidating that the loss is real
, whether you never conceived oryou lost a child early into
gestation, which kind of leadsme to another huge thing that I
(03:33):
recommend is that at whateverstage you're in in that process,
you really have to figure outhow to have healthy boundaries,
whether that's getting help withfiguring out how to set that
boundaries.
There are tons of books andfree resources online that can
kind of help navigate thatprocess, but it might look like
letting your pregnant friendsknow that you need some space
(03:54):
and that you're going to take astep away from a friendship or
staying off of forums and socialmedia if you find that that is
negatively impacting you.
I know that sometimes thosethings can be helpful, but so
many people that I talk to findthat those things exacerbate
their symptoms and thatcomparison just kind of ends up
running rampant.
There are a lot of otherstrategies that I would
(04:15):
recommend, but I think those arethe main two that I really
encourage women to try out.
Ciera (04:19):
That's really good.
I'm going to put you on thespot with like a little example.
Yeah, good, I'm going to putyou on the spot with like a
little example.
And so you know but ourlisteners probably don't know
with my second pregnancy it waswith twins and I ended up having
one healthy baby but I did losethe other baby.
So how do you like that was areally big struggle.
I mean, this was eight yearsago, so I think I've done pretty
(04:41):
well at being able to workthrough it but that was a
struggle.
Going back then to think, howdo I be happy for this baby that
I do have but then also grievethe loss of the other one?
But then I think this couldalso relate to maybe not
somebody who, like, in the samepregnancy had one but lost one,
but later on, like they, maybethey lost one but then they do
have a pregnancy.
(05:01):
I just need to be grateful forthe kids.
Lyndsey (05:02):
I have Like they.
Maybe they lost one, but thenthey do have a pregnant.
I just need to be grateful forthe kids I have.
Ciera (05:05):
Like yeah, yes, exactly.
So just I mean, I know that'sso big and kind of like a hard
thing to say like over just apodcast interview, but do you
have like anything that couldhelp a woman grieve that loss
but also be grateful and happy?
Lyndsey (05:19):
Yeah, I mean, like you said, like it it really is
similar, like what yoursituation that you described is
very similar to women who havesecondary infertility, which is,
you know, when you've alreadybeen able to conceive and have a
child, and then you struggledown the road after, even like
your second child or your thirdchild, you want to have more and
you're unable to, for whateverreason.
And that actually is one ofthose ones that's like really
(05:42):
pervasive and really tricky,because women do tell themselves
like at least da, da, da, da,da da.
Or I need to look on the brightside, which is that I have
these beautiful children.
Or, for you, I need to justfocus on the fact that I have
one healthy baby and I shouldjust be so grateful for that.
And there's no reason why thosetwo things can't coexist.
(06:02):
There's no reason why you can'tbe devastatingly sad and totally
joyful, and I think that we tryto figure out how to avoid the
uncomfortable emotions and justimmerse ourselves in the
positive ones.
But usually what I see whenthat happens is it ends up
stripping away the positive ones.
The grief gets so loud andtries so hard to take up space
(06:23):
in your brain because you'reignoring it that it crowds out
any joy or happiness that youcould actually have, and
sometimes we see that show up asanxiety.
Sometimes we see that show upas unresolved trauma down the
road.
Sometimes we even see that showup as like attachment issues
when the healthy baby is born orlike survivor's guilt issues,
like there's so many things thatcan kind of come about from
(06:46):
this.
But if you can let yourselfhave both which means fully
recognizing the grief, fullyallowing yourself to sit in the
sadness or whatever that mightbe it gives that part of you a
voice and then that part of youstops screaming so loud and you
can start to pay attention tothe other voice as well.
Ciera (07:04):
It's hard when you have two voices at the same time.
Lyndsey (07:06):
You know we all do though.
We all have these little partsof us that like chime in and you
hear people describe it all thetime, like there's a part of me
that feels this way but there'sthis other part of me that
feels this way.
Well, both parts are you, andif you try and suppress one,
it's actually going to getpretty irritated and it's going
to get louder and louder andlouder until it's the loudest
voice in your head.
(07:27):
So quit trying to suppress them.
Have gratitude that they allexist.
They're all trying to serve apurpose.
Like usually, those griefvoices or those sad voices are
actually trying to protect youfrom hurt.
So if we can find space forboth voices without trying to
ignore one, it will prevent itfrom getting way louder in your
head.
Ciera (07:47):
That's really good advice.
I love that you say like we allhave them, like it doesn't have
to be this situation.
It's going to be like you knowlike we all have.
Lyndsey (07:55):
all the time I hear people like talking in that kind
of terminology and they don'tnecessarily realize that they're
talking in like IFS or parts orEMDR terminology, but they are.
That's how we all process.
Our emotions is in differentparts of us that show up because
of different experiences anddifferent beliefs, and all of
them are still parts of us.
Ciera (08:16):
No, I love that.
I'm going to remember that.
How can women cope with theemotional rollercoaster of
infertility, pregnancy loss?
Men cope with the emotionalroller coaster of infertility,
pregnancy loss, but also stillfeel hopeful, or maybe in terms
with the fact that maybe whatthey had in mind isn't going to
come about the way they thought.
Lyndsey (08:34):
Yeah, I love that you added that caveat at the end,
because I think this does kindof go back to the issue with
shoving it down and trying tojust be positive.
Um, because I do find thatthat's one of the most damaging
things that women can do.
Um, and I think that hope canplay such a huge role.
But I found that, especiallywith women who've been battling
infertility for a long time, um,platitudes like your time will
(08:58):
come or it will happen when thetime is right, or you could
always just adopt, those end upfeeling really triggering and
actually pretty invalidating.
It's not that they're not true.
Maybe it will happen eventually, maybe you can adopt.
It just is invalidating of thegrief and the experience that
women are actually going throughin those moments.
And another reality that weneed to acknowledge is what you
(09:21):
just said Like, sometimes itdoesn't ever happen the way that
we want it to.
Sometimes women never conceive,despite all of their efforts to
make it happen.
And if we can't recognize that,we're just perpetuating the
avoidance of the grief thatreally does need to have a space
to be worked through.
That doesn't mean that youdon't feel hope.
(09:46):
It just means that you alsoleave space for grief.
Ciera (09:50):
So going into pregnancy, pregnancy can bring so many
unexpected mental healthchallenges.
I mean so even if you didn'twalk through the fertility and
trying to conceive, all of that,like maybe you were fine then.
But then you get pregnant andyou're all of a sudden like, oh,
like what is going on with me.
Uh, what would women, whatshould they look for?
What should women look for andlook out for during this time,
(10:12):
Cause it can seem so foreign andweird.
Lyndsey (10:15):
Yeah, totally so.
Um, I'll go through this listbut I'll also share that Like.
If there was any part of thispodcast that women shared with
their partners, that wouldactually be really, really
helpful.
Because sometimes, when you'rein the thick of it, you don't
even if you know what to lookfor, you don't recognize it when
it comes.
But your partner is likely tonotice a shift.
Your like partner may be likelyto notice behavioral changes.
(10:37):
And if you're navigatingpregnancy as a single parent,
tell a close friend, tell aparent, tell them that these are
the things that you know mightend up showing up in pregnancy,
and ask for them to kind of keepa close eye on those things.
So first, postpartum depressionis a huge one post-pregnancy.
I think this is the one thatmost people are familiar with
(10:58):
and it would look likepersistent sadness, numbness,
hopelessness, irritability,maybe even rage.
Postpartum anxiety is anotherone that is more commonly talked
about.
I think more people arefamiliar with that one.
It doesn't look like yourstereotypical baby blues, so
sometimes it is a little bitmore dismissed in women
themselves, but the peoplearound them will likely notice
(11:22):
it can look some of it can beinternal Like.
It can look like racingthoughts or constant worries or
difficulty sleeping, even whenyour baby's sleeping rage is a
big one.
Usually it spills over.
Like you talk to other peopleabout your worries, it's like,
well, what if this, what if this, what if this, what if this?
And people will start to noticechanges in the way that you're
behaving and ideally you kind ofwould start to notice it too
(11:44):
notice changes in the way thatyou're behaving, and ideally you
kind of would start to noticeit too.
Another that I'll just kind oftouch on, even though they are
less common and I want to makesure that saying these doesn't
trigger anxiety for women whoare already worried about what
this could look like.
This can happen during pregnancyor postpartum, but we see that
it's actually pretty common toget intrusive thoughts or
(12:04):
postpartum OCD, and it's waymore common than people think.
The reason why it doesn't gettalked about as much is because
it is usually steeped in shame.
Some of those thoughts can getpretty violent or graphic and
people are very, very hesitantto share them.
So usually by the time someonecomes to me and actually shares
what some of those thoughts orimages look like, they're
(12:26):
already to the point thatthey've developed a lot of
really negative beliefs aboutthemselves.
So the more we can talk aboutthis, the more we can normalize
it, the sooner people can gethelp and realize that, like,
those thoughts are not them,they're not in line with their
values, and it's okay to talkabout them.
And then the last one is super,super rare to talk about them.
(12:46):
And then the last one is super,super rare.
So I bring it up only becauseit is like a pretty serious
issue If people don't know thatit's possible and it's
postpartum psychosis that canlook like really strongly held
delusional beliefs,hallucinations, severe confusion
or disorientation, really manicmoods, drastic behavioral
changes Again super, super rare,but it can be really serious if
(13:10):
it's missed or left untreated.
So I always like to make sure Imention it.
Ciera (13:14):
And any of those happen alone, or are they usually?
Lyndsey (13:18):
all overlapped with each other.
It can be singular, only onehappening, or it can be multiple
.
Ciera (13:25):
And what is the reason behind all of these struggles
that can happen postpartum.
Is it the hormone changes, theshifts?
Does your mind, like your brain, actually change when you have
a baby?
Lyndsey (13:36):
Yeah, all of the above, and then I would also add that,
like there's so many externalchanges that lead to stress and
sleep deprivation and all ofthese other external factors
that we know impact how yourbrain's functioning, what
hormones are or are not beingreleased, the chemicals in your
brain being out of whack,there's all kinds of things that
(13:59):
can factor into that, and Ialso think sometimes I tell
people that it needs to be okayfor us not to determine a why,
just to be able to acknowledgethat it's happening and then
just get support on the otherside of that.
Ciera (14:12):
That's good too.
That's me the overthinker I'mlike.
But why is this happening?
I?
Lyndsey (14:16):
want to know.
Yeah, sometimes we know, andsometimes we just don't, and so
it needs to be okay If you neverreally figure out your why.
Ciera (14:24):
What?
What would you say to a mom whojust feels off or is wondering
if they have any of these, likehow do they even get help?
Lyndsey (14:32):
Yeah, so I think there's this like common theme
of not just in pregnancy, likewomen in general often struggle
to get help because they havethis assumption that like they
don't have it as bad as someoneelse, or that what they're
experiencing isn't bad enough,or that they might just be like
a bad mom or a bad human or alazy mom or a lazy human, and
(14:53):
it's just a fallacy.
But what I usually say is thatthe sooner you can get help, the
better, and often thedifference between it being not
bad enough and definitely badenough comes down to whether or
not you got the help.
So, even if it's justpreventative, go get the help so
it doesn't get bad enough.
Ciera (15:13):
I always think like a therapist should be someone you
like, just go see regularly likeyour regular doctor.
Just go and just say the thingsand then maybe you'll discover,
oh, I actually should probablybe making this more regular or
maybe you're okay and like youcan keep going, but I think a
check in is so valuable.
Lyndsey (15:29):
Yeah, I like to tell clients all the time like I feel
like I've done a lot of workmyself.
I've done extensive therapy andI still regularly check in with
a therapist.
Ciera (15:41):
What can I mean?
A lot of those things that canhappen.
They're out of our control,right their hormones, their
emotions, their changes in ourbody and our environment.
But what are some tangiblethings that our listeners could
do, if they're pregnant orpostpartum, that could try and
help to?
I don't want to say like avoidthese things, because sometimes
(16:02):
it's unavoidable, right, totally, but something that they are
like.
Are there anything that youwould suggest that they do just
to try and make it moremanageable and also be more
aware, besides letting a lovedone know to watch out for them?
Lyndsey (16:15):
Yeah.
So I think part of the problemwith when I make these
suggestions is that, again,women struggle so much to do
things for themselves.
So I'm going to make them andalso just say out loud that,
like you gotta you gotta ask forhelp.
You gotta do things foryourself.
And the biggest thing that Irecommend to women is to ask for
(16:37):
and actively seek out help.
You're going to hear people allday long that are going to send
you texts or call and be likehow can I help?
Let me know if I can help, andthen like nothing happens.
Right, and it's great thatpeople offer that, but very few
people just show up and do itwithout you asking.
So what that means is you'regoing to have to do something
about it yourself.
(16:58):
So I'll often encourageespecially new moms or soon to
be delivering moms to make alist of all the things that they
think they need to do.
So if you walked home today,what's on your to-do list?
Write it all down.
Then I ask them to send thatlist to every single person who
offered them help.
Send it in a text, send it inan email.
Send it in a text.
Send it in an email, send itout.
(17:20):
Send a text in conjunction withthat saying how much you
appreciate the offer and that ifthere's anything on that list
that they feel comfortablehelping with, that, that would
make the biggest difference forthem.
It's super uncomfortable andwomen are really resistant to it
.
But what I can tell you with100% confidence is if I received
that kind of text message, Iwould absolutely take something
(17:41):
off the list and do it, and Iimagine you would say the same
thing.
Oh for sure, you have to startasking, and it's truly the only
way to get what you need.
The other huge piece that Irecommend is to start people are
really resistant to this onetoo.
Start organizing your life intoabsolute priorities so what I
mean by that is someone woulddie if I don't do this or
(18:04):
secondary priorities dishes,laundry, sweeping, that kind of
thing.
Work, if possible, with atherapist to recognize that
you're in a phase of life wherethose secondary priorities might
have to take a back seat.
Your laundry might pile up, youmay always have dirty dishes in
your sink and you're going tohave to do some work again,
(18:25):
ideally with someone who canhelp you through it, to minimize
the shame around this and toremind yourself that this is not
forever.
I totally recognize that if younever did those things it would
become a problem.
You'd run out of clothes anddishes.
But I really try to work withclients to see how that demand
can be decreased as much as ishumanly possible.
And then let the shame go.
(18:46):
It's fine.
It's okay that your dishes aredirty.
It's okay that maybe you didthe laundry but then you threw
all of the clean clothes into abasket and you never sorted
through the basket and you'rejust dressing your clothes, your
kids, in wrinkly clothes, likeall of those things are
secondary priorities andnobody's going to die.
Ciera (19:04):
I really love that, that like cause that puts it into
perspective, like it's going tobe okay and going back to your
first suggestion about the list,and like I can just like I'm
trying to envision myself likecould I do that?
Like I don't know?
That feels so uncomfortable,but I do know, like you said, if
somebody sent that to me Iwouldn't think twice.
Lyndsey (19:24):
I would be like I would actually probably be grateful
that they actually gave mesuggestions because I didn't
have to try and get come up withwhat would actually yeah, yeah,
and I don't tell them whatwe're going to do with the list
until after they make the list.
So I say, hey, we're going tomake a list of all of the things
that if you were to go homeright now you think you need to
do.
We're going to make your to-dolist.
(19:45):
And generally they think I'mlike going to help them task
chunk or some sort of like ADHDstrategy, and then we kind of
flip-flop it and immediatelythere's like a recoil, like oh
my gosh, I could never.
But I actually kind of treat itthe same way.
I would treat like OCDstrategies, which is like okay,
then let's start really small.
Who's one person that you couldsend that to that you wouldn't
(20:05):
feel crippling shame?
Let's send it to that person,let's get the evidence that they
don't respond negatively, andthen let's try the next least
scary person and you kind ofwork your way through the list
that way.
Ciera (20:16):
Really smart Not to I don't say this to like pat
myself on the back, butsomething I've learned kind of
along that that I actually justdid with my friend.
Her baby just had heart surgery.
She's only six weeks old, andso I just sent my friend a text
and said here are some thingsthat I can do for you.
And I gave her three optionsand I was like which one can I
do for you?
And she her response back she'slike that was so nice and I
(20:37):
have so many options and likeand so and I think it also
helped it helped me to feel likeI was helping but also not
stepping on her toes, cause Idon't, I don't want to come into
her home if she's notcomfortable yet with visitors,
cause the surgery or you knowall these things.
So I just gave her threeoptions and she picked from
there.
Lyndsey (20:54):
And I love that.
And if listeners wanted to knowwhat they could do for
pregnancy or infertility orpostpartum moms, 100%, that
would be top of my list.
Fewer and far between, though,that people actually do that.
So if that's not going tohappen super regularly, we still
have to find a way to like getthrough it, yeah, and so to have
(21:16):
your own list to send to them,that's great, that's so great.
Ciera (21:19):
Okay, let's transition into motherhood and mental load,
which is huge.
Mental load is like a huge partof being a mom.
I mean, I think women ingeneral just carry a big mental
load.
How does the invisible mentalload of motherhood impact a
woman's health like long term?
I mean, it can do it short-term, but what about long-term as
(21:40):
well?
Lyndsey (21:41):
Yeah.
So what I actually see is itcan lead to a really huge
cognitive strain, and I usuallydon't see people in my office
until this is already happeningand it's gotten pretty bad.
So it can get so bad that itcan actually mimic the symptoms
of ADHD or even early cognitivedecline.
So I'll frequently hear womensaying that they feel insane or
(22:01):
that they think they're losingtheir minds, and it usually is
attributable to that invisiblemental load that so many women
just actively pass off as notbeing that bad or feeling like
they should be able to handle it.
I actually like I've even seenpeople with concerns about early
dementia.
I'll have women come in andtell me that they've started
(22:24):
like Googling symptoms aroundthat because they're concerned
that that's happening to them.
And then we start to dig in andwe realize like okay, there are
some very clear indicators ofwhat's going on here and as we
work through those and work todecrease the mental load, we see
a lot of that resolve.
Ciera (22:43):
Okay, so is it curable, is it fixable, or is that
cognitive decline kind ofpermanently there?
Lyndsey (22:50):
No, totally, totally fixable.
I mean, obviously, short of youactually having some sort of
decline, which is a thing, andyou know ADHD does often
manifest itself in motherhood,so it could be mimicking ADHD
symptoms or it could just beADHD.
But if it is a cognitivedecline due to invisible mental
(23:12):
load, there are absolutelythings that can be done about
that and ways that you canmitigate some of that stress.
Ciera (23:17):
I feel like undiagnosed or late diagnosed ADHD is like
the big thing on social mediaright now.
Do you think that a lot ofthose people that are saying
they have undiagnosed orundetected ADHD like do you
think that they more likely havelike a mental load I don't know
(23:39):
the word like effects from amental load, or do you think it
really is?
There really is an increase inADHD diagnosis.
Lyndsey (23:46):
Yeah, so I guess I should answer that question
first.
100%, I think that there is anincrease in accurate ADHD
diagnoses and I think that thisis due to partially, women being
more willing to accept that.
Think it's due to an increasein access to information where
(24:15):
people can see things and belike hang on, that does sound
familiar.
Maybe I should look into this alittle bit more.
I also think it's due to bettertesting and a better
understanding of what ADHD doeslook like in women.
Specifically, all of thediagnostic criteria and most of
the assessments that we haveaccess to today and for sure, in
recent history, were based offof young white boys.
(24:39):
That was it.
It shows up entirely differentin females.
It shows up entirely differentacross races.
We were missing a huge chunk ofthe population when we
originally wrote a lot of thisdiagnostic criteria, and so,
yeah, there's going to be anincrease as we start to
recognize the mistakes that wereoriginally made and then
(25:02):
attempt to rectify them.
Ciera (25:04):
Wow, that's very interesting.
I wonder what made them choosethat demographic, that specific
demographic you know and notyeah, because obviously,
unfortunately, historically,that that is the demographic
that was chosen.
It's true If you look at ourAmerican history.
Lyndsey (25:20):
And world history, like when you look at diagnostic
criteria across the board.
A majority of assessments and,like I said, diagnostic criteria
was was written for straightwhite men.
Interesting, so yeah we have along way to go in a lot of areas
with our testing and ourstudies.
Ciera (25:42):
What are some powerful things, but also not too
overwhelming things, that momscan do to help them in the thick
of raising kids?
Lyndsey (25:51):
Yeah, I think that there's a lot of things that we
could talk about there.
I think that there's a fewthings that I try and do on a
daily basis that I hesitate tolike give a list, because I
think that we already have somany lists that are running
through our heads that it cansometimes start to feel really
overwhelming to add anotherthing to a list.
So these are things that I justrecommend making part of a
(26:14):
lifestyle as opposed to likeanother checklist.
So, getting outside you've gotto get outside, you've got to be
able to like have sunshine onyour face and breathe some fresh
air.
That's a huge one.
The next one is paying attentionto triggers that make
motherhood more difficult foryou.
(26:34):
So for me, I noticed that, likeauditory input made being a
grounded and regulated momnearly impossible.
So I do things like using loopearplugs or blasting really loud
raging music every once in awhile so I can drown out certain
noises or, you know, having afriend who I can call and vent
(26:56):
to and have them just listen.
All of these things are thingsthat you can incorporate into
daily life that don'tnecessarily need to become
another checklist.
Ciera (27:07):
Perimenopause.
So, you're done having kids,you're in perimenopause.
Or maybe you didn't have anybiological children, but you're
still you're entering thatperimenopause.
Or maybe you didn't have anybiological children, but you're
entering that perimenopausephase.
They can sometimes feelblindsided.
I didn't really know about ituntil I watched my mom go
through it, and then I also havea friend who's going through it
as well, and so what shouldthey know about how it can
(27:28):
affect their mental health?
Lyndsey (27:30):
Yeah, this is super important and I feel like it's
another one of thosedemographics that just kind of
gets ignored and it's justtotally wrong and something
where we can just do so muchbetter.
But I'll just talk about a fewof the things that could maybe
help people be a little bit moreprepared.
Mood changes can be superintense.
Your estrogen and yourprogesterone fluctuate, which
(27:52):
directly affects serotonin andGABA, which are key mood
regulating chemicals, so youcould suddenly start being
really irritable or emotionalweepy out of nowhere.
You could also experienceintense brain fog, trouble
focusing, forgetting words.
Again, this is one of thoseareas where women start to get
worried about early dementia.
Your sleep can be superdisrupted, which again also
(28:14):
impacts mood and regulation.
You might have anxiety anddepression for the first time in
your life, when you neverstruggled with that before.
Additionally, autism, adhd andother neurodivergence might
become more obvious inperimenopause because executive
functioning can totally tank.
There are also some intensestruggles with identity during
(28:35):
this time.
So I often recommend thatpeople start tracking patterns.
This can help connect hormonechanges or even give your doctor
more data if it's notnecessarily explainable by
hormone changes.
Don't dismiss symptoms.
Don't undertreat yourself.
There are a lot of optionshormone therapies, adhd meds,
antidepressants, moodstabilizers, trauma therapies,
(28:58):
regulation skills, sensoryskills that can help with some
of this, so don't dismiss them.
The other thing that I alwaysrecommend is to protect your
sleep as much as is humanlypossible.
Obviously, this is not medicaladvice and people should be
speaking to a doctor beforedoing any of these things, but
if you're struggling with sleep,you could try things like
(29:20):
magnesium, sensory strategies,cbt for insomnia, and all of
those things can be reallybeneficial in making sure that
the sleep doesn't become anissue, because if the sleep
becomes an issue, everythingelse gets worse.
And then, lastly, I tell peopleto really make some space to
let themselves grieve theirchanging roles and to try to
(29:42):
create something that is justtheirs.
So it doesn't necessarily meanthat you have to rush to be a
new person or to not giveyourself the time to grieve, but
it can be helpful to start somesort of creative hobby or
passion project, not necessarilyto be productive, but to
continue to feel like you'readding value into your own life.
Ciera (30:02):
Those are good suggestions.
What are some identity shiftsthat women experience during
this mid lifetime and how canthey stay grounded?
You mentioned like coming upwith a hobby, but how can they
stay grounded and still feelconfidence and joy through these
changes?
Lyndsey (30:17):
Yeah.
So I think that some of thebiggest identity shifts I see
happen with the change from likerearing kids to being an empty
nester.
Not that that's necessarily themost difficult one or the one
that matters most, but that'swhere I see most women coming in
for support.
I think that there's like thisidea that, unfortunately, is
(30:39):
pretty pervasive from a societalstandpoint that once we're
finished raising kids, we're notproductive anymore, we're not
adding value anymore, and partof that comes down to really
getting in touch with who youactually are as a person outside
of motherhood, and I stronglyencourage women to do this even
when they're in the trenches.
Get yourself some time away,continue to have creative
(31:00):
hobbies, continue to havefriendships and connections and
relationships outside of whatyou're doing as a mom.
If that hasn't been possible,or if you're now in
perimenopause and you neverreally got a chance to do those
things, that's where I wouldtell people to start.
Figure out who you are.
Maybe this looks like startingsome sort of journaling
exploration that then translatesinto real life experience.
(31:22):
Go, try new things that younever thought you would try
before.
Meet people who are totallyoutside of your normal comfort
zone and see what feels good,see what doesn't.
Ciera (31:34):
I heard on a podcast that she called it, instead of
the empty nester phase, shecalled it the open door phase.
Love that.
I really loved that because Ithought like yeah, her kids can
always come home with their opendoor, but also going along with
, like what you said, figuring-out who they are like it's a new
open door for them to figureout who they are outside of
being a mother.
Yeah, totally.
Thank you so much, lindsay.
This was really helpful and Ithink it should be helpful for
(31:56):
every mom, but I think also forevery friend who has somebody in
their life that's in one ofthese phases Another mom who has
somebody, like a daughter, whomight be in this phase, sisters
I think it's gonna be helpfulfor everyone to listen.
So thank you for sharing all ofyour knowledge and everything,
and where can listeners connectwith you and maybe learn more
about your work?
Lyndsey (32:16):
So I do have an Instagram.
It's at therapeuticallythinking and people can
definitely connect with me there.
They also can see more aboutlike my work specifically and
what my clinic specializes in atmaternalmindscounselingcom.
Ciera (32:32):
Awesome.
Thank you so much, and I loveto ask all of my interview
guests one question.
So what is one thing that youdo every day, or try to do every
day, that helps you to feelmore confident?
Lyndsey (32:43):
Okay, I feel like there's a few things, but one of
the things that ties in withwhat we've been talking about is
I try to keep what I call aproof log.
So on a daily basis, I havelike a little app that I do this
through, but on a daily basis Iwrite down one thing from my
day that gave me proof of mycapability or my resilience or
(33:05):
my growth or or whatever itmight be.
It's it's like a CBT basedskill, but maybe it's like
sometimes for me it's like Iremembered every single
appointment I had booked today,or it's like I was able to not
yell at my kids when I feltsuper, super frustrated.
So it's just writing down onepiece of proof that I am
(33:28):
competent or I am resilient or Iam capable.
Ciera (33:31):
I love that.
Thank you, yeah, you bet, ifthey think it's helpful for them
.
I think it's so fun to hearwhat everyone does.
So thank you so much, Lyndsey,and thank you for tuning in and
listening, and I will talk toyou next week.
I finally have an emailnewsletter and I'm so excited.
I have put together a brand newwebsite,
(33:52):
confidentlybeautifulwithciera.
com C-I-E-R-A.
com, and you can sign up for mynewsletter there.
I will have a newsletter fullof my favorite things podcast
episodes that maybe you havemissed.
Anything beauty and self-carerelated is going to be there.
It's going to be full of thingsthat I hope would bring some
(34:13):
value to you.
So if this is something thatyou are interested in signing up
for, head on to my website,confidentlybeautifulwithciera.
com, and sign up for thenewsletter, or you can click the
link in my bio or in the shownotes and it will take you
directly there, and I can't waitto be in your inbox.
Thanks for listening.
Connect with me on instagram atconfidently beautiful podcast
(34:34):
and share this episode withsomeone in your life who could
use a little reminder of justhow amazing they already are.
Stay confidently beautiful.
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