Clint Hurdle

On the cover of Sports Illustrated in 1978, he was labeled “This Year’s Phenom.” Sounds great, unless you’re a 21-year-old without the skills to handle the pressure and scrutiny from the media, teammates, other players and fans. It didn’t help when Clint Hurdle started drinking to help numb the realization he wasn’t living up to expectations.

Clint bounced around several teams as a player and when he retired in 1987, he when straight into coaching. He also kept drinking. Two marriages and one daughter later, Clint decided to get sober in 1999. At the time he was the Rockies hitting instructor. Sobriety brought Clint a third marriage (going on 23 years), two more children and a transition into being a manager for the Rockies and Pirates for a total of 17 seasons. Today he continues to help the Rockies as a Special Assistant to the GM where he works with Colorado’s four minor league teams.

He's faced a lot: being an alcoholic, divorced twice, a child with a birth defect and countless ups and downs in baseball. Yet through it all he remains positive and committed to giving. Clint sends out daily emails, both Devotional and Encouraging. Sign up to receive either or both at ClintHurdle.com. To find out more about Prader Willi Syndrome, visit pwsausa.org.

Hosted by Susie Wargin

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Just do all that and the unfilledexpectations, I start numbing myself with alcohol.
I start drinking. If you everhear somebody tell you they think they're
good at drinking, you can't tellthem they're an alcoholic. You can't tell
them they've got a drinking problem.But I used to tell myself, I
just think I'm good at drinking,and all it was Susie was not doing
well in the field and find away to do better at night. Welcome

(00:20):
to the Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired Podcast. This is a podcast
featuring conversations with professional athletes and coacheswho have been cut, traded, fired,
and or they're retired. These conversationsare full of great stories and phenomenal
advice. I'm your host, SusieWargen. When I first started working at
KOWA in Denver on the afternoon show, one of my duties as the sports

(00:42):
chick was to do my sports updatesfrom the Rockies dugout during homestands. I
would literally plug in a headset,sit in the dugout, do my sports
updates, and I'd also get guestsfor the show during batting practice. This
is when I got to know ClintHurdle at the time, he was the
Rockies hitting instructor, and we hitit off. He'd tell great stories,
was always smiling, asking me questionsabout me and my family, and we

(01:04):
became friends. Something I didn't knowthen, Clint Hurtle was an alcoholic.
He knew it and so did manyothers around him, but it took a
few years before he finally decided toget sober in nineteen ninety nine. Soon
after that, he started a managerialpath that would last seventeen years between the
Rockies and the Pittsburgh Pirates. Alarge part of Clint's life also revolved around

(01:26):
being a player with high expectations.He was earmarked as this Year's Phenom on
the cover of Sports Illustrated in nineteenseventy eight. He's got quite the history,
and he's still very entrenched in theRockies organization. Ladies and gentlemen,
my friend Clint Hurtle cut traded Firedretired podcasts with Susie warton Clint Hurtle,

(01:49):
how are you? I have goodSusie, how are you? I'm good?
I'm having flashbacks to when we usedto sit in the Rockies dug out
back when you were a hitting coach, and I was doing updates for the
Zoo and we would just talk andshoot the crap for a couple hours before
game time and had such a goodtime. We were so smart too,
We had the good jobs. Thenit didn't involve any pressure, and at

(02:13):
least you know what you were doing. I didn't know what I was.
You didn't know what you were doing. Oh, it's so good to see
you. So you're back involved withthe Rockies. We're going to get to
that, but we have a lotto get through because you have a very
interesting upbringing and life and all ofthe places you've been. I mean,
it's pretty amazing, Clint. Ihave had a wonderful ride. That has
been a blessing. Now there's timesit's been an obstacle course, and that's

(02:37):
why you're here of my own doing. Yeah, I can't believe. I
didn't ask about the name of theshow until I actually I walked and set
in the chair. He said,what's the title of the show? I
said, well, cut, traded, fired, retired, everything that can
happen, and you check all theboxes, all the boxes, I got
all those, you do. We'regoing there, We're going there. Okay,
I'm good let's do it all right. So you are born in Michigan.

(02:58):
You moved to Florida around the ageof four, so that your dad
he worked at the Kennedy Space Center, right. My dad started off very,
very minimalistically. He worked a nightshift and for all I know,
he could have been sweeping up whenthey were done. I mean he left
Michigan when we went to Florid,we hadn't he had no job. He
just went down there because a friendsaid, they're hiring a lot of people

(03:21):
out near the Space Center. It'sa good place to maybe start. Oh
geez. So we just went downplugged in, and he just started taking
any job he could get. Mydad is one of my heroes. My
dad, he's been my best mantwice, not the third time, not
the time I've been married twenty threeyears. I had to go in the
free agent market and get a newone third time, the one that was
the Yeah. But my dad ismy hero because he took a chance.

(03:45):
He believed that he's gonna bet onhimself. But he also knew he had
to represent the family, you know, and there's a lot of responsibility to
accountdardy there, but he pulled itoff. He started at OURCA, then
he went to Lockheed, then hewent to Grumman. Cut to the end
of the deal. My dad retiredat the sixty two and a half being
a senior engineer in charge of threehundred computer engineers, and part of that

(04:06):
time was spent on liftoff, thatKennedy Space Center. So he would go
in pre liftoff. You know thattwelve hour twenty four hours is to count
down and then sometimes with weather theywould stay. But you think about it,
he went down there with nothing,and he wasn't hitting the he wasn't
hitting the button, but he wasa part of it. Pretty darn clothes
that helped lift the thing off.How many siblings do you have. I

(04:28):
have two sisters, two younger sisters, Bobby, Joe and Robin. They
both live within fifteen minutes of mymom and dad on the east coast of
Florida. Okay, great great sisters, fantastics, So a family of five.
He just got up from Michigan andmoved to Florida on a wing and
a prayer. Four of us did. Robin was born in rock leg So
then as you're in Florida, youstart, I know, you're a bat

(04:48):
boy as a kid. At somepoint in there, where did your love
of baseball? I know you werealways a very accomplished football player as well.
What other sports were involved in there? I played them all my dad.
I loved football, but my dadplayed all the sports as well.
So my dad never made me doanything. But if any ball I picked
up, he'd be available when hewasn't working. So all three sports became

(05:12):
real. I played basketball, Iplayed football, I played baseball. Baseball
was always my go to growing upin Michigan. Truthfully, I am still
to this day a Tiger fan,a Lion fan, a Piston fan,
and a red Wing no kidding,And it didn't go over very well when
I became the hitting coach of theRockies with the Avalanche red Wing series.
If you can believe those were bloodbass back in the day. It hasn't

(05:34):
been much fun being a Lion fanuntil the last year when our boy Dan
Campbell got us back on the map. And I think we got a pretty
good football team. Yeah, butthere were years where we were the worst.
Yeah, every four of them horrible. So, but baseball was always
my thing. I played a littlebasketball. I was the guy that would
get on the floor, I wouldget a rebound, I would pass the

(05:55):
skills. Weren't there football people Tothis day, they'll say it was my
best sport, and I hear itwhen I go home and I was recruited.
I ended up signing a letter ofintent that could go to the University
of Miami to play football baseball becauseonly three schools would allow me to play
both sports coming out of high school, and one was Virginia, one was
Harvard, and one was Miami.And Harvard wasn't an athletic scholarship because they

(06:20):
don't give those out Ivy League schoolstheir academic scholarships. So my great my
GPA was one B in high schooland that B was in drivers Ed.
Your kid, I am not.It's the worst story ever. It is
hilarious, but it's the worst storyever. I made a B. The
track coach was the football trainer,and I would never run track and I

(06:45):
would always play baseball. And whenit came time, he was also the
driver's ed teacher. He didn't cheaton me. But when you take your
road test and we were out ona one A on Cocoa Beach, that's
back when they were filming. Idream of Genie and I'm looking for Genie
while I'm driving and she's barbar she'snot there. But I'm driving with two
other students. He's in the frontseat tow other students the back seat.
As I'm driving, I'm approaching ayellow light and I started to slow down.

(07:06):
He goes, gun it. Iblow right through it. He goes,
pull the car over Clinton, Ipulled the car. He goes.
First time I out Friday night andthere's not an adult in the car,
one of your buddies in the backyard, gonna go. And you just did
it. Oh my god, you'redone getting the back. My driver's test
was in f because I ran.I ran a red light and my driver's
stud but he told you too,that's a great points. Yeah, never

(07:30):
forgot it. I didn't cry.I didn't I tell my dad. I
said, Dad, I get usedlike a tool. And I told him
the deal and he was like,wow, was it because you didn't go
out for track? He was absolutely. I believe that he's still had a
rocket issue or something holding him up. So that was to be. But
it was landing in Miami and Iwas just gonna go, you know,
I was gonna go play both.But the football thing I really liked.

(07:51):
Friday night. I didn't like practiceat all. I could see that,
Yeah, baseball, I could goplay baseball or practice baseball the day of
the week. That's just where myheart was. So you did not go
to Miami, you didn't go tocollege. You opted to go ahead and
just play professional baseball. I wasdrafted in the first round, the ninth
pick of the nation. Every yearwe look at what the ninth pick in

(08:11):
the nation. You do? Yeah, just for fun. Yeah, it
was like six million. Last yearI signed for seventy five thousand dollars.
It was seventy five fifty thousand.Signed was seventy five thousand dollars in Maryon
laboratory stock. Oh, it wasn'teven money, but it was you and
Kaufman stock. The stock turned outto be worth way more. Oh jeez,

(08:33):
do you still have it? No, not anymore. I mean you
remember as we get into the store. I've been divorced twice, so there's
a lot of things that have comeand gone in my life. Do you
have half of it? I havehalf of half of it, half of
half of it? All right,So you do get drafted by the Royals
in nineteen seventy five, spent alittle bit of time in minor leagues before
making your major league debut in seventyseven, Right, and that's where Clint

(08:56):
Hurdle broke out. The next year, you're on the cover of SI as
this year's phenom. What was thatexperience like where all of a sudden you're
kind of thrust into a pretty bigspotlight. Yeah, it was nothing I'd
ever experienced before, And it wasit was before the time where our team's
major league teams, professional teams,they are more protective other rookies. Now,

(09:18):
they actually have classes they go toright after they're drafted. They helped
break them in, transition them intoa Q and A with media, social
media, all these different things,and there was none of that. There
was no safety net going in.So it was a lot. But the
other side of there was a lot. To be on the cover Sports Illustrated
Spring Training when I've got men thathave played fifteen twenty years and have never

(09:41):
been on the cover of anything,and they're good players and this and that,
it was just kind of a didyou get looked at sideways? Yeah,
I got side eyes. I gotsome side eyes and I got hit
during the season for no apparent reasonother than and they yelled names at me.
And it wasn't always cover Boy,but it was. You know,
it was what it was. Youjust try to make the most of it.
But it was a lot of hype. I know, looking back,

(10:03):
I wish I had to handle itbetter. I don't know if I had
the tools to handle it better.Sure, it became what it became,
and it was hard. I'm sureit was. It had to have been
hard. So you're with them untilnineteen eighty one, and then you do
a lot of skipping around what happened. As far as leaving the Royals going
to the Reds, I thought Iwas tracking very well. Nineteen eighty season

(10:24):
was my best season. We wentto the World Series. We had been
in the playoffs in seventy eight andseventy nine, and I put together a
pretty full a good full season forme. And then eighty one two three
weeks into the season, a monthin the season, I'm actually leading the
league in batting and I've hitting threeor four home runs. I hit went
off Palmer, went on Flan again, and Steve Stone. I hit three

(10:45):
in the first four game series openup the season, and then I ended
up swinging the bat really well.And then it wasn't too long into the
season the head first slide and thethird Doug the since he's at third of
the Angels, and I frightened upfraction of vertebrate in my back, first
time I'd ever been hurt. WhenI hit, I knew something was wrong
and you want to get up andwalk off the field. I can remember
getting up and not really being ableto walk very well, and my body's

(11:07):
broken. Something's broken. I don'tknow what it is. And it took
a long time for that recovery,and that was also a strike gear.
It just things got really crazy andI never really found my rhythm and rhyme
coming back. I was traded thatwinter later to the Cincinnati Reds. Never
found footing there. I was dealingwith some off the field issues with the
injury part of it. You didn'thave the tools to deal with all of

(11:28):
the media and everything else they recognitionback then. There also weren't the tools
for recovery, and when you're ina when you're injured as an athlete,
you can go into a very darkplace thinking I'm never going to get back
there again. It was some ofthat I felt I would get back,
but I didn't know what I wasgoing to be when I got back,
And truthfully, just do all thatand the unfilled expectations, I start numbing

(11:50):
myself with alcohol. I start drinking. If you ever hear somebody tell you
they think they're good at drinking,you can't tell them they're an alcoholic.
You can't tell them I've got adrinking problem. But I used to tell
myself, I just think I'm goodat drinking. And all it was Susie
was not doing well in the fieldand find a way to do better at
night, or numbing the pain ofnot doing well on the field, or
expectations. And it leaked all overmy first marriage, and it leaked into

(12:15):
my second marriage, it leaked intomy career, and then I got to
a point where, you know,I had people that cared about me,
people that tried to help. Butyou're never going to find your way back
until you admit you have a problem. Yeah, it's true, and you
got to get right for yourself,not your mom, not your dad,
not this, not that, becauseyou know you need to for yourself first,

(12:39):
and you don't probably ever realize whileyou're in that bad spin, how
selfish you are because to choose todrink rather than to choose to pour into
healthier relationships or whatever it is.You're all caught up in yourself. Smallest
package in the World's a man wrappedup in himself. I was that.
So there was a lot of harddone between nineteen eighty one in nineteen eighty

(13:03):
nine? Did it okay? Wenton? What was the last straw?
Or were there a few? Therewas probably a few. But I when
I showed up here as a coach, I was still drinking. I mean
I didn't get sober until ninety nine. I was a coach here in ninety
seven. So I've been sober twentyfour years, been married twenty three.
Go figure the math, right,I mean yeah, Carla laughs. You

(13:26):
know I told I've been married threetimes. She was really smart. She's
only been married once. She wasjust a much better chooser than I was.
But I was the problem. AndI wasn't a horrible person, but
I had a drinking problem. Iwas an alcoholic, So I wasn't accountable
and responsible when I should be.My relationship wasn't anywhere close to what it
could have been, and then youknow, you would look to say,

(13:48):
well, if you were this,I would be no, no, no.
I looked back in rich it wasall my deal. Could you have
played better absolutely if you weren't drinking. Absolutely, yeah, absolutely, that
became I mean to choose to toplay better because you can't stop drinking.
It's a disease. And that's oneof the things still today as I go
around and share I've been to ameetings in Denver for years. I've go

(14:09):
to a meetings in Pittsburgh. Igo to a meetings down the beach where
I live now. The biggest thingyou don't realize is the collateral damage that
you do along the way. Youknow, things that you can't repair.
And when you go about make youramends. You know, I had people
go like, well, you know, okay, big deal. And I
have people like they didn't want tohear it. I don't even want to
talk to you. You know,you're not in charge of their feelings back.

(14:31):
You just need to make your amends. And that was probably one of
the most pun intended sobering parts ofmy recovery, was truly finding people I
needed to go back and say Iwas sorry. To It was a large
number, was it. Yeah,it's a large number of people that loved
me, tried to love on me, tried to help me. Did they
take you back for the moment Idid? Some didn't. Yeah, I
get it because I have people inmy life now that I try and help

(14:54):
through recovery. And there comes apoint in time when you know you've got
to have boundaries and separation and nomeans no, and I've had enough.
Toxic behavior is not something that I'ma fan of anymore, and nor do
I have a lot of time left. I believe in my eye for drama.
Susy, you bring energy. Ichoose to spend time with your If
you brought drama, it would bea short conversation. I'd be on my

(15:15):
way and it should be you know, for me to you. Absolutely So.
I learned a lot through that process. There was a lot of hurt,
but I think my mom and dadhave never been prouder. My sisters,
Carla understands me, the people inmy life. I had to go
through it with the Rockies. Everybodyover there knows it's an open book.
They need to know. And whenI went to Pittsburgh, I had to
tell them. It's been a blessingfor me because it's given me just an

(15:39):
understanding of myself and how I thebest version of me, how that can
show up every day and then justtruly to be of service to other people's
before I even think about all thethings I used to think about, it
would make me happy. Is itweird when you look back and look at
that Clint Hurdle, Does it seemlike a totally different person that you don't
even recognize? Yeah? Yeah,they have a term for that. It

(16:02):
is, And you know, it'skind of fun now at least people tell
stories because my understanding, I wasa pretty happy drunk. I wasn't a
miserable drunk. I didn't want toget in fight drunk. You had a
good time, Yeah, until Ididn't. But that gets to be sad
and lonely too at the end ofthe day, it does. It was
my experience and it was part ofmy life. It no longer is,
you know, Ashley, my oldestdaughter, knew her dad when she was

(16:22):
drinking. Maddie and Christian have neverseen their dad take a drink. Carlos
seeing both sides, she likes thisside. At twenty three, years.
Way better I bet she does thanthe other guy. I've been fortunate,
blessed that people still believed in meafterwards. The Rockies gave me a chance
to be a hitting coach, towork through it, and then to come
out, and then to manage theteam, and then Pittsburgh. I've kind

(16:42):
to do things that nobody ever thoughtI'd be able to do, including me
right, because I got so.If you had kept drinking, those opportunities
would not have presented themselves. There'sno telling, No, there wouldn't been
a whole lot of not good inmy life. Absolutely. You retire from
playing baseball in eighty seven, andyou start man pretty much right away,
So that is during still when you'redrinking in the miners, and then you

(17:03):
come here to Colorado in nineteen ninetyfour as a hitting coach. It was
the winner of ninety three, butninety four as the minor league hitting coordinator.
When did you kind of start comingup to the bigs. I mean,
I know, I started getting toknow you. I started covering the
Rockies games probably in ninety eight.Ninety seven was my first year. Don
Baylor hired me from being the hittingquartina he had had five hitting coaches in
five years. Je Well, Arthow left because he managed, but he

(17:26):
had Griffey Junior, he had Amasotas, he had Dwight Evans, Art Howe,
and Ken Griffy Senior. But itwas five and five years and I'd
worked there three years in the minorleague system. And he interviewed me,
and you know, you look atlife and funny things. In a million
years, I would never thought DonBaylor would be the guy that would hand
picked me to be a coach inthe big leagues again, and he did.

(17:47):
He gave me my first opportunity back, and that was in ninety seven.
And then you start to get toknow the guys. I think the
players related to you created great relationshipswith him. You weren't in charge because
Don was in charge, but Ithink, you know, foreshadowing into what
you did later on, just thosegood relationships with a lot of those guys.
The things I've learned, I've learneda hard way. And I knew

(18:07):
the things that I loved in amanager, and I knew the things that
I didn't care for a manager.I tried to emulate behavior, model behavior
you want to instill in other's andI tried to do that, and I
wanted to represent the manager in theorganization. The name on the front of
the jersey meant something, I usedto tell the players. The name in
the back of the jersey means somethingto you as well. Try and represent

(18:29):
both of them. That's well,I was still drinking. I was slowly
figuring it out, but it wasn'tuntil ninety nine and until I made my
move. But those early relationships withthe Bombers, I mean, these guys
put up numbers in one year thatblow my whole career numbers. To come
on. Gallaraga bashelis my wife's favoriteplayer to this day. Vinny Castilla.
To work with those guys, tobe the guy they come to. We

(18:51):
built up a relationship where they trustedme. It took time, but they
trusted me. They trusted what Isaw and I would never be a bobblehead
to them. I would never tellno, you're fine, and that's okay,
no. And then they get inthe point where you know, sometimes
you're a coach, sometimes your couch. You just listen and let them vent
and let them and then there willalways become a point in time because I
remember, I say okay, whydon't you and I walk up to Don's

(19:12):
office and I think this conversation nowis for you and Don to have because
I can't help you here. Youwant to do that? Or are we
done with it now? Can westart hitting again? But they're just appreciated
me hearing them and then not runningand ratting them out or whatever. But
just to be that guy, andthen if something Don needed to know,
I would tell Don he needed toknow it. But you know, everybody

(19:32):
needs somebody that they can trust whereit's a safe space. And I think
that was one of the things Ilearned early enough that I knew I needed
and I cherished when I had it, and I just wanted to be that
for those guys. After Don Baylorcomes Buddy Bell. Buddy Bell gets fired
in two thousand and two. AndI will never forget the press conference when
you were introduced down there in thein the clubhouse, and it was one

(19:53):
of the coolest moments for me becauseI was such a huge fan of yours
to see you get that off oportunity. Were you surprised that they came to
you with it? Shocked? Danand I had had a little running conversation
for about ten days, I reallyneed to talk to you, and yeah,
I know that we're horrible offensively.Um, you know, I got

(20:15):
some ideas I need to talk toyou about. And we we talk on
the offense and it was hard.Our team wasn't playing well. We were
dropping balls at the outfield, weweren't doing well. But then one day
he finally calls. He goes,I need to see you this morning,
and I'm like, I get anappointment at the dentists. I can I
I gotta go to this dentist appointment. Then I well know what time,
and she said, I'll just comeover to your apartment. We had a

(20:37):
condo. Carlo. I'm like,no general managers ever come over to my
content. So I call up myday. He's coming over to my condo.
I called my dad and said,Dad, the GM's come over to
fire me. I said, butyou know what, Dad, it's kind
of cool because I won't have totake the walk of shame because I've also
been a player that's been sent downor released and you go to your locker
and you put this is before club. He's packed up. You put all

(20:59):
your own stuff in a bag,and you walk out of a clubhouse and
everybody you want to talk about impactfuland leaving the mark, I've done that.
So I'm thinking, well, Idon't have to go to the clubhouse
and pack my stuff. He's gonnaget gonna whack me here at my house.
I told my dad I was gonnaget fired. Dan comes over and
he goes to and though this hasbeen hard, and it's been we're not
where we want to and I've madea tough decision and and I've let Buddy

(21:22):
go, and I want to knowif if you would have interest in being
the DA or a manager. Iwanted to say, what are you talking
about? I thought I was gettingfired. I called my dad and set
it up and I go Dan whatHe goes, Yeah, I think you
have some things that will help ourclub whatever. And I said, Dan,

(21:42):
if you believe in me and theorganization believes in me, yes,
yes I'll do it. But Iwant to let you know I had as
much to do it Buddy getting firedas anybody in the clubhouse, because we're
you know. But I was notgoing to say no. I said yes
because I remember Dan and I weshook hands, we hugged, and when
I'm day, I gotta pick upthe phone. I had to call me
that you believe what happened, becauseso when are you gonna be home?

(22:06):
I said, no, you needto get a plant, You need to
get guys, you know, toget a plane because I managing the first
Big League ball game tonight. Isaid, he didn't fire me, Daddy,
maybe the manager. We were blownaway. Oh my god, Dad,
to this day, it's one ofour best stories. It has to
be. And then one of ourother best stories of the day. He
called me up at eight o'clock inthe ore and told me to come to
his house in two thousand and nine, and I went over there and said,

(22:29):
I guess I don't have to talkabout where we're hitting two low to
night in the order, huh.And that was the night I got fired.
They I got fired. Yeah,So, oh my gosh. So
in between that is so funny.Yeah, seven eight years of managing.
In between that seven eight years ofmanaging. I want to go back to
what you mentioned about toxic culture andrelationships, because I feel like you came
into that clubhouse and there were changes, not necessarily right in two thousand and

(22:52):
two, but over the next fewyears which built up into that magical season
of OH seven. There were changesthroughout that clubhouse where I really felt and
I noticed as a medium member.I think other people noticed it as well,
that it was a different feel.There weren't as many means, there
was a whole lot of more teamand it was cool. I mean,
in two thousand and seven is stillone of my most favorite memories ever,

(23:15):
but it was it was just different, and I feel like you had that
thing where you're like, if you'rea good player, that's great, but
if you are not part, ifyou're a cancer to this thing, we
don't need it. There was somany strong, wonderful efforts put in by
a lot of people, and startingwith Kelly McGregor. Kelly actually was also
a big proponent of me getting thisopportunity. Kelly helped me grow up while

(23:37):
I was here, worked through myrecovery, my sobriety. He helped me
become a better man. We usedto laugh because we'd come down and talk
basical because I don't know anything aboutbaseball. I said, we'll neither do,
why but maybe the manager, sowe'll figure it out together. Kelly
played such a role, Dan playedsuch a role our min league system we
gel, but it took time twooh, three, h four or five.

(23:57):
There were hard years and there werelean years because we had debt problem
and we did go through some toughtimes together and public scrutiny, public scorn,
public unhappiness, and Dan Kelly andI were out in the face that
we wore it and we were honestand we were transparent, and I think
that helps set a cultural identity.But it also the players started owning more

(24:22):
things because there was times when wetalked about our clubhouse. At time it
was like a big kindergarten. That'ssad. And who wouldn't want to come
to Colorado, live in Colorado andplay on a team and live in such
a beautiful place and then finish infourth or fifth place? Everything's cool on
a fans come. We were ableto change the mindset on doing something significant,
on something bigger than the name onthe front and bigger than the name

(24:45):
on the back. But combining thosetwo, we wanted to do something.
Kelly made it so obvious to meClinton, you realize you're not just in
charge of twenty five people here.You are connected to every employee that works
in this ballpark. I never lookedat that way. And one of the
first things he asked me to whenI came as a manager was google around
say hello to every employee in allthe different spots. And can you imagine
how many years it's tough to bea ticket seller? Oh yeah, I

(25:08):
got to meet all those people.I got to work with those people.
I was responsible and accountable, youknow, when we want it made their
job easier. When we lost,it made their job harder. At the
end of the day, my jobwas to sell tickets. The better we
play, the more tickets get sold. And it didn't go well for a
while, but we felt we weregetting closer. Nobody else believed us rightfully,
so you know, you believe whatyou believe. We had incredible faith

(25:30):
because we believed in something that nobodycould see, not even us, but
we believed it was going to happen, and eventually it did, and it
brought so much joy to so manypeople on so many levels that it was
one of the most fantastic times inmy life. And to say it was
the best team I was ever partof, and I had no I didn't
play, and it was probably therewas a few games and it made a

(25:52):
lot of decisions, not a lotof I tried to stay out of the
way. I just tried to bea GPS. They were on our roll.
They came earlier, they stayed late, They loved each other, they
represented each other. Was everything you'dwant a team to be. Yeah,
they love playing. When they wonthirteen and fourteen games, at that point,
you do step out of the waybecause they're just They're just rolling.

(26:12):
And the energy that was in thiscity was unbelievable. It was like it
was just they were most watch TVunless you're at the ballpark, and we
hadn't had something like that. Itwas so cool. Coaching staff was so
good. Bob Appadaka did such agreat job with the pitchers. We had
ten different starting pitchers the second halfof the season, and we had the
best era in baseball pitching at CoorsField. Think about this, if you're

(26:33):
going to drop a World Series team, are you gonna put a rookie at
chart? Are you gonna have tworookies in the starting rotation? Franklin ralis
the ball and let's just have arookie closer. Let's just switch out your
closer with three months to go inthe season and take a four time All
Star and flints and move him upand inning and then put Corpus at the
back end. And it all worked. It did, it all worked.

(26:56):
It was amazing, much fun.It was very cool for for everybody,
just for everybody. You know.Another thing I remember from when you first
and it's funny. You said thatyou went around and met everybody at Coursfield.
I remember something that you told meafter you became manager. Shortly after
became manager, and I bring thisup when I do my speeches because I
talk about how you need to recognizeand be kind to everybody because you don't

(27:19):
know when somebody's position might change.And you told me, you said,
Susie, I remember when I wasjust a hitting coach and there were people
who wouldn't even look at me orgive me the time of day. Than
the second I became manager, theywere tripping over their feet to say hi
to me. And I was like, oh damn, Glad, I was
nice to you all that time,you know, but to me, I
was like, I will never forgetwhen you said that to me, because
I thought, you know what,it doesn't matter what you do anywhere you

(27:41):
work, it's so easy to bekind to people because you don't know when
that person's going to be your boss. Being kind it's a superpower. Yeah.
And the other part that I've learnedthree different times is you think you're
developing relationships with people, and Ihave because I had more friends when I
got fired here that stayed in touchwith me, and Colorado when I got

(28:02):
fired in Pittsburgh, I stayed intouched me since then. But still there's
a group of people that are inyour posse, they're in your tribe,
they love you. And then there'speople that I thought I had developed relationships
with. The relationship they had waswith my title and it wasn't with me.
And that is a gut punch attimes, because but I've learned it.
It's happened, you know, inthe first time, I got fired

(28:23):
from the Mets, and I gotfired from here, and I got fired
from Pittsburgh, and I realized I'ma pretty good guy, but I keep
getting fired. I just thought thatcould have a manager. But I'm a
good guy. I just trying tobe kind. And I don't say that
flippantly anymore, because you know,I've had wonderful opportunities and grace and empathy

(28:45):
became real to me. Mercy isreal to me, the Rockies reaching back
out to be Billishman, to comeback and to help in an area that
I wanted to help in. Ididn't want to come back. I don't
need to be a big leaguer.I've been a big leaguer for thirty three
years. As a coach, I'mback with the kids in the minor leagues,
in the low a affiliate double triple, helping those kids out, growing
up, young managers, doing thosethings which I love. I'm doing it

(29:07):
two weeks a month. But Ialso jokingly say, you know, Dick,
this puts me in a very rareair because you have the chance now
to fire me twice, the onlyperson maybe ever been fired twice here.
But I always get a rush whenI come back to Colorado. Carla does
too. She's got a bag packin Annamury Island right now to come to
Colorado anytime. We love it here. People loved on her family here.

(29:27):
Maddie and Christian were born here.We still have so many friends here,
and it's just a really feel goodspot in our heart to be able to
come back to work and hopefully helpmake a difference and be a small part
of recreating that synergy and that energy. We haven't been in playoffs in five
six years. You work with allfour affiliates, right, and just kind
of go around and work with theyounger talent, and also changing that mentality

(29:51):
a little bit about you're not justhere for a short time to work on
your skills. We're going to winsome games. We have definitely talked about
winning games. You know, youwant a championship team up here. Let's
developed championship players in the minor leaguesand that starts with you winning a championship
and spoke in are you winning achampionship in Fresno? You know Chris Forbes,
our player director of personnel, MileagePersonnel. We talked about it last

(30:12):
year when he brought myself on.Then Todd joined. Todd and I normally
traveled together in the MIRA leagues.You talk about a kick. Todd travels
with you. Yes, we goand could you please get him on my
podcast when you guys come here,we will talk about that. He's going
to be here later in the summer. On my calendar. Todd is working
and pouring into kids. I spendmore time probably with the managers and the

(30:34):
coaches and the culture aspect with thekids, the youngsters. But I do
spend time with the players, butTodd's going to hand on with him,
you know, listen to or Toddall will comes in for you know,
we have our both have our spacesthat we work within. For both of
us, it's about advancing the mentalityof these young players in the organization of
representing. You're going to represent whereveryou're playing, and you're going to grow

(30:57):
and learn things and do hard thingsand figure it out. We're gonna do
it together and we want to doit collectively. You know, we call
it the cohesion. How fun itis. And for me to get to
the point, you're starting to seesome of these players, Tovar. You
got to see Doyle, You've gottento see you gotta see a little bit
of totally. You gotta see Bouchardlast year. There's more coming, Jake

(31:18):
Bird, Lawrence, they were inTriple A last year. You know,
they came up during the season.There's more coming. You know, there's
gonna be a day. I truly, I wouldn't be doing this to just
do it better. Yes, foreverybody that lives here. Yeah, and
to be a part of that becauseI know how much joy we brought before
and I want, I want everybodyexperience that joy again. But there's more

(31:38):
coming. I believe we're gonna turnon the Fawcet in another year. And
as Fawcet's going to run for awhile, we have pictures coming, we
have players coming, and it's fun. And you know, they see the
division we're in. That's grown upbaseball, you know, and we've got
to find a way to make ourown way and to do better and to

(32:00):
perform better. And I'm all engagedin that aspect of it. Let's work
hard, Let's work hard together,Let's find our way back to them.
They're up to the big leagues forthese kids and then put a foot down
to stay. How fun is itfor you to see when they get called
up. One of my best momentslast year was when Winton Bernard got called

(32:20):
up. He's been in the minorleagues for a long time and we just
developed a relationship because we both hadto over do some hard and different areas.
And that's the other nice thing withthese players. Some them don't even
have any idea who I am inspring training and a lot of them have
done their homework, but I'm verytransparent. I share with them what I've
done, where I've been, andit's very rarely do I get to the
baseball park that takes care of itself, because then I'll get the text,
Hey you were a manager of theyear. Hey you've been in three World

(32:44):
Series player, coach and manager.I go, yeah, I finished second
ball three times. But you know, then they start digging on you.
Oh yeah, I'm checking in becauseI just share with them that I'm a
guy that's warn the uniform as aplayer, coach and manager. I've learned
a lot, I failed a lot. Maybe I can help you along the
way. Maybe I can, youknow, suggest some things. But then
they google you and go holy crap. And I tell, if you really

(33:05):
want to have fun, look atthe hurdle ejections. Go for rejections,
because I was okay here, Igot really good at in Pittsburgh. You
did, yeah, But I wasfortunate to be a part of cities that
they care. Yes, I meanPittsburgh's a raw town. Did fun there
a blast? Yeah? I couldtell that's good. That's good. Well,
it's fun that you get to hangout with Helton then in this gig

(33:30):
and you guys had a great relationshipwhen you were here. We've been forwards
and backwards all over the place witheach other and he just still to this
day, I don't know if we'reno for friends. He needs you have
to. He's a voice of reasonin his life. He says, well,
that's Todd talk. We're friends.We love each other. Yeah,
there's nothing I wouldn't do for him. There's nothing he wouldn't do for me.
But it's been like that older thatuncle or somebody on the side.

(33:52):
And now that we're not, I'mnot the manager or the hitting coach.
Different relationship now. Yeah. Andto see his girls grow up and for
him to see my family grow up. They were down on the island with
us two years ago in COVID,spent away just hanging, you know,
spending time together. That's been oneof the best relationships that I've ever been
able to build in a game.That's fine, and it's just fun to

(34:13):
watch him be engaged and back inwith our minor league players and doing what
he's doing. Well. Yeah,because the wealth of information that he has
is incredible. He's pretty reserved.I mean, we would see a different
side of him, and he God, he gave me so much crap,
but I just give it back.And that was how he and I had
a great relationship in that way.And people don't see that side of him

(34:34):
because he was just kind of reservedand quiet. But I'm so glad that
he's using his skills to teach others. He's and the players have already seen
growth in him from one year tothe next year, just in the presentation,
because you know, the first thingthey would say, he don't say
much, does he? I said, he doesn't say much number one,
And if he does, please listen, because he doesn't waste words and he's

(34:59):
not worried about your feelings and he'sgoing to tell you what he believes.
And there has been a little softerside with him that's come out over the
time. But it's great to havehim around because I mean, that's the
guy. It's the face of theorganization. You know. Larry said it
best in his retirement it's a Toddfather. Ye. Charlie Blackman said the
other day, I've only got toplay thirty seven more years to pass Todd

(35:19):
Helton's number in doubles. I mean, what he did on the field,
and that work ethic and that grit, that grind and that love for the
game and to do it all forone organization, just as absolutely tell me
what's going on with your family,and we have a cool, a cool
story. I'll start before that.Our daughters were born the same year,
in two thousand and two. Iwas pregnant at the same time as Carlos,

(35:42):
so we had a nice connection theretalking about when babies were born.
Maddie was born about six weeks beforemy Samantha was born, and it was
I mean, that was an interestingtime. Maddie has proter Willie syndrome,
which we found out about. Idon't know. You probably announced it maybe
three or four weeks after she wasborn, and then became am a huge
advocate for proud Willie syndrome. Andwhen you guys are ready to do your

(36:05):
first story about Maddie, you allowedme to come to your house and do
the first story, which is stillsuch a special thing to me that I
got to present that and kind ofintroduce her to people. And then you
and Carla and the whole family reallyhave gotten on this platform to create awareness
because nobody knew what it was yeah, people still don't. We're twenty years
now. I don't mean this ina bad way. It just doesn't have

(36:28):
the pop of cancer, right,It doesn't have the pop of leukemia,
pediatric cancer. I mean, there'sso many different things out there, and
there's a lot of kids that areaffected with it. One and fifteen thousand
kids are born with this deletion ofthe fifteenth chromosome. It's your satiation chromosome.
You never never are full, neverYou know. You get walked to

(36:49):
this back room two weeks after yourdaughter's born and the doctor says, your
daughter's born with the birth effect.This isn't a cold, she doesn't have
the flu, This isn't going away. There's something you're gonna learn to live
with. You don't know. Carlwas incredible. The biggest blessing for Carl
and I through all this is thatMaddie's birth or existence, God giving her
to us has gotten us to aplace in our relationship that I would love

(37:12):
to say we've gotten to on ourown. I can't. I don't.
We love each other unconditionally. Westand in the gap for each other.
She was not my best friend whenI married her. She is my best
friend. She's been my best friendfor a number of years now and it's
galvanized us. But the story you'regonna tell, there's so many people that
have different stories. But you knowyou were special because remember the times we

(37:34):
would go up and spend times togetherand Breckinridge because I got to know your
family, I got to know yourhusband. It was That's the part of
Colorado that we still identify with.There's people here we still Carla comes here
and she'll come to a couple ofgames, but she's out with her friends
and all the people we grew upwith and spend time within their kids.
But if you'll tell the story ofthem, because this term still lives today.
But this is one of the thisis a Maddie special. It was

(37:58):
a spring training We were there forspring training one time. The kids were
little, so Maddie and Christian werethere and I don't even know where we
were or how we were chatting,but you did something and she told you,
you make me a headache, andwe still say that at our house.
I was like, that's the bestthing. You make me a headache.
That's why I was trying to parentMaddie anytime I would try and drop

(38:21):
my parental skills on Maddie. Shewould look at me and go, you
make me a headache, and shemeant it, and to this day she'll
still drop it every now and then, as do we. Yeah, yeah,
because I'm still careful given everybody heading. But she's such a character.
And you guys do a golf tournamentevery year, you do a huge hot
stove fundraiser, and you know thingslike that, Clint. When you have

(38:42):
a child that has a birth defector, there's something going. It will either
like you said, galvanize or completelyblow a relationship apart. So I love
seeing the fact that you and Carlagot closer over it. Well go thank
a recovering alcoholic and two failed marriagesand then you get a child born with
a earth the fact where am Igoing to go? For me? It
was a no brainer. This ispart of my story, but it's Maddie's

(39:05):
story and it's Carla's story. Andto see carl and I, you know,
walk down. Christian graduated last weekand it's great. Yeah, yeah,
it's just life has been very veryfull, it's been very rich,
it's been very very rewarding. Westill have, you know, life to
do as everybody does. Oh absolutely, but that's okay. You know my
mom and dad eighty nine and eightyeight, still hanging around and loving on

(39:29):
everybody. My dad again, Imean, he texts, he truthfully,
I joined Instagram and Twitter eight daysago. You did. Oh yeah.
I laid it down. I laidit down, absolutely perfect it down.
My son has been wearing me outand not wearing me out, but like
dad really, but he said,you just need you just need to be

(39:51):
there. You got all these kidsin baseball and whatever. I said.
Well, I don't know if Ineed to do it for everybody else,
I said, but I see theit makes more relatable. I think that's
part of it. And I alsohave boundaries for myself on it that I
get ten minutes on it today andthen ten that's is that enough? Yes,
right now, it's enough. It'smore than enough. And then what

(40:14):
is Ashley up to? Your oldestand you had been married a year and
a half, neither one had beenengaged, neither one had been married,
and they found each other, movedto Plano, Texas, where they both
got really cool jobs, and thenthey found out that they could work remotely
and Ashley took it upon herself tomove closer to Grama and Grandpa now my

(40:35):
sisters, because she just wanted tobe there. Oh that's cool. Ricky's
a wonderful man. Great, allright, Clint. Last question, as
you look back on all of thethings throughout your career, and people will
look up to athletes and coaches andthink, oh, you make a bunch
of money, you don't have anyproblems. You're going to get fired.
You know, it's what happens.But it's hard to fall down and get

(40:57):
back up sometimes, and you've doneit many I have done it many times.
As we talked earlier, you know, I self created an obstacle course
for myself for a lot of years. People when they give their testimony church,
they call it a Christian walk.Mine was a Christian trudge. It
was a march. It was throughmud, it was through barbed wire fence.
One of the things that I doshare is you may not like it,

(41:22):
but you're not the first person that'sever gone through it. And I
mean that from a caring comment thatlet's try and find some other people that
have gone through it that we canconnect you with. That goes back to
my biggest go to. This isdon't isolate, don't self medicate. Find
somebody can talk to, share theburden, share the problem. It doesn't

(41:44):
have to be with the world,but to talk it out. They have
somebody at least a safe space whereyou can be seen, be heard and
you know they care. And Ihad people like that through all my life
and it still didn't register until lateron, but it did. Good people
I found out true in life thatwould like with Carl, you can't out
give a good woman, you can'tout give good people. I try and

(42:04):
give people give back to me more. And I think that's the biggest part
I learned through AA was the serviceaspect of life, because I thought for
many years everything the sun sat rose, you know, the crack of my
behind. And once I got outof that mentality, just said no,
no, you need to show upfor this and for that. Now you
take care of yourself, Yes,but there's other people involved here. You're

(42:28):
gonna fall down. We are promisedtrials and adversity. It's part of life.
How we respond to those is stillof our making. How the attitude
we take on, how we've beenI've been wrong before. Bad things do
happen to good people, and howdo you navigate that? How do you
work through that? One of thethings we told everybody that, you know,
we got fired in Pittsburgh and itwas a crazy ending. Another story

(42:52):
for another time, but actually aboutfour or five days later, you know,
because people get those oh you know, that never should have happened.
I remember I said, thank God, I don't get what I deserve in
life. Thank God I haven't gottenwhat I deserve with some of the things
I've done, decisions I've made,you know, just find a way to
be kind and if it's hard andit's dark, find a light and it

(43:13):
maybe one phone call. That's thehardest part to make that call, to
make that reach. It was forme the first time I went for counseling.
And then I can remember being scaredto death to go in an AA
meeting. All these people will knowI'm a drunk. Half the people in
Denver knew I was a drunk anyway, or the people I was going out

(43:34):
with. But you know what I'msaying, you think you're covering up all
these things. And I can rememberwalking into my first A meeting and setting
down and then listening to other peoplebecause so many times in life people said,
well, I know what you meanor I know what you feel.
They don't have any clue about whatI'm going through. But you know when
in those AA meetings, those otherpeople they knew what I felt, they

(43:54):
knew what I meant, and Ifound more comfort and go into a meetings
they did walking around in regular lifefor the longest time. Wow, But
at the end it was it waslooking for some help. Yes, I'm
going through some hard time. Youdon't have to have an addiction to ask
for help. I'm financially strapped righthere. Maybe it's self imposed. I'm
having a relationship trouble here. Canwe get some somebody with a different lens

(44:19):
looking at it? A lot ofpeople are life will tell us what we
want to hear. We need tohave people in our life to tell us
what we need to hear. Verytrue. You brought up the Pittsburgh firing.
Now I have to ask you aboutit. What happens? You can't
just part of the podcast. It'sfired. It was. It was.
It was weird because we finished ourlast exit interview with the players we'd interview
and started years everybody Saturday afternoon,Joe musgro finishes. Neil and I are

(44:44):
planning for the next season, andthen actually there was some other things going.
We're having some other conversations about whatwe might have to do a day
or two after the season Saturday afternoonand we have a game that night.
Now I come Sunday morning to thepark and we're having the universal three o'clock
games, or at least I cometo the park. I'm there at nine
o'clock routines. Press conference. Actually, one of the comics I talked about

(45:07):
was being a coach is finding waysto win, to make everybody's job either.
I talked about the job having ashelf life. You know, everybody's
got one. I go and weplay, we hit, we do this.
I go to the picture Catcher meeting. I come out, it's twelve
thirty and I come back to myoffice. Doesn't only happened a couple of
times, and the team owner,president, and general manager in my office.

(45:28):
That's usually not a good SiGe.But then they're gonna fire me.
Now it's twelve the game, basicallysomewhat before the game, and then they
gave me a couple other options,and I was like, my wife's left
the house. I got two kids. News like this usually leaks gets out,

(45:51):
so I don't want to manage thegame. They asked me if I
would stay and manage the game.They did. I think they met well,
but I'm a man. I've metat things well. I haven't done
well. Sometimes I don't know howwell. This thing was that there's never
a good time to fire somebody.It was just weird at the time he
talked about and it was Steve blastDay. On top of everything else,
we were recognizing the man sixty yearsof service to an organization. Oh my

(46:14):
goodness. So if I managed afterthe players, an't gonna hang around where
my call team meeting after last team, I'm leaving. No, So I
just said, no, I'm gonnaI'm gonna take the sword now because this
is why, at least I cancall my wife. Don't let yeah,
Alex, our nanny's got the kidscoming to the game. Everybody just stayed
home. I'll be home shortly,you know. And it was just really

(46:36):
weird, very weird. By thetime I left the park, It's like
Trevor Williams, the starting pitcher,is going out to warm up. I'm
leaving the park. That's how lateit was when everything was said, did
you say anything to the players?Got the team together? Okay, so
I got to talk to the teamnow and I thanked them for their service
and their efforts, and I said, this is a part of hard that
we all you know, this iswhat I need to wear. We're the

(46:57):
manager, and I will tell youthis. I managed almost seventeen years.
The last three months I managed inPittsburgh, I may have had more complications
and challenges that I did the firstsixteen a half years at Oh Wow.
We had coach player fights, wehad oh yeah, one guy's in prisoner
closer Google a deal up. Imean those a lot that went on wrong.
So I understand why I got fired. As of how I got fired

(47:20):
and the fact that there was noconversations. The optics were bad. Yeah,
the optics were brought. That isa wild story. Yeah, And
basically almost got home before about thebottom of the first day. We didn't
turn the TV yet, we didnot watch the game. I'm sure you
didn't have to fight traffic. You'regoing to traffic and all the way home.

(47:42):
Oh my goodness, Clint, thiswas so fun. Thank you so
much. I appreciate your time.I know you came in and I got
you down here from coors Field,and it's so good to see you.
I love seeing text messages from you. Thank you. UM tell Carla and
the kids and everybody, Hello andbig hugs. I will. I have
one more piece of thought that Ido want to share. Please. I've
been fired three times. I believedin honoring the exit, and I think

(48:04):
if you remember here, I honoredthe exit going out, and in Pittsburgh
I did the same thing. Becauseif you're trying to build a culture and
you're trying to bring people together foryears. It was sevent eight years here,
it was nine years there, andwe did some pretty incredible things.
In Pittsburgh, we are really reallyclose. And then if you go out
yelling, screaming, crying, pointingfingers, you killed the whole deal.
You honor the exit when you thinkabout it, seventeen years as a manager,

(48:28):
that's a blessing. It's a lottwo cities. I was thankful,
I thank Bob, thanked everybody justlike I did here. Thankful for the
opportunity, Thankful for the experience,Thankful for the memories, and let's not
lose sight of that. I lovethat, you know, when Mike Shanahan
got fired from here, healed apress conference and I thought that was one
of the classiest things I had seenthat he was able to thank everybody kind
of give his thoughts, and Ithought, you know what, that shows

(48:49):
so much because it doesn't happen veryoften. Where you honor the exit,
you need to honor the exit.I love it. Thank you, Clint,
Susie, You're welcome. Thank you, Clint Hurdle. Love that man.
If you want to find out moreabout prodder Willie syndrome and the great
work Clinton his family does to helpthem, visit PWSA USA dot org.
New episodes of Cut, Traded,Fired, Retired come out every Tuesday.
Please follow, download, and likethis podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.

(49:15):
You can keep up on new episodesby following on Twitter and Instagram at CTFR
podcast and also on the website CTFRpodcast dot com. I'm your host,
Susie Wargin. Thank you for takingthe time to listen to this episode and
any others. I hope they bringyou joy and insight. Until next time,
Please be careful, be safe,and be kind. Take care