Mike Sanford

Being a college football coach is all Mike Sanford has ever known. After all, his father, Mike Sanford Sr., was a college coach before Mike was even born.

Not only did Mike grow up moving from city to city with his father’s career, when he went to Boise State, he was the backup quarterback where he got used to a headset and clipboard. He didn’t mind either one, in fact he loved it.

As soon as Mike graduated, he got on as a GA with his dad’s staff at UNLV. He didn’t stick to Mike Sr.’s tree for long. His career took to him to stops with Standford (twice), Yale, Western Kentucky (twice), Boise St, Notre Dame, Utah State, Minnesota and finally the University of Colorado. He was hired to be the Offensive Coordinator for Karl Dorrell in 2022, but when Karl got fired after an 0-5 start, he became the interim head coach.

When he wasn’t retained by the new staff at CU, Mike and his family decided to grow some roots in Colorado and give coaching a break. He’s taken time to reflect and is starting to find a new passion for being on radio and TV as an analyst.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
It was strange. I hadn't beengiven any recruiting assignments, and I'm like,
what's going on. So I grabbedlunch with a great friend of mine
on the staff and he looks atme. He's like, hey, man,
I think you're getting fired. Likecup, Sure enough, I go
meet with my old friend just firesme. You know. It's kind of
one of those that was rock bottom. Welcome to Cut, Traded, Fired,

(00:22):
Retired a weekly podcast featuring conversations withprofessional athletes and coaches who have sat
down to tell their stories of setbacksand how they were able to move forward.
I'm your host, Susie Wargen.This episode's guest has a college coaching
resume that's nearly impossible to follow.Even Mike Sandford gets it messed up.
Mike is actually Mike Sandford Junior.His dad started coaching in the college ranks

(00:44):
before Mike was born, so allhe's ever known is coaching, and with
coaching comes moving around, firings andhopefully some success. Mike had been all
over the country at various colleges withvarious jobs before being hired to be Carl
Durell's offensive coordinator at CU in twentytwenty two, when the buff started the
season zero to five, Durell wasfired and Mike was promoted to interim head

(01:07):
coach. He won his first gameagainst cal Fans stormed the field, and
then they lost the next six games. He wasn't retained by Dion Sanders,
but the exposure to the state ofColorado hooked Mike and his family and they
decided to stop moving and stay.He took some time to reflect and become
a better snowboarder, and also tostart taking some reps in the media.

(01:27):
After you listen to his conversation,you'll understand why I think the media is
the perfect choice for his next career. He's a natural Ladies and gentlemen.
Mike Sandford cut Traded Fired Retired podcastwith Susie Wargin. Mike Sandford, it
is good to have you in here. It's great to meet you. We've

(01:47):
never met before. It's not veryoften that I get a guest to hear
that I haven't met before. ButI think you're a fascinating subject for the
podcast. Right on brand, aren'tI? You are right on brand,
Firings. It's right in your Twitterbio. I love it. Rose Bull
coach three time Fiesta Bowl coach,three time fired cod coach. Just call
like it is, right, Iknow. Sometimes we have to acknowledge our

(02:09):
journey, right, the good andthe bad. Yeah, well, and
then after that, to your credit, now your elite husband goat father and
below average snowboarder. So you've gotit all right there, the good and
the bad. I think there wassome false humility there when I was talking
about below average snowboarder. I thinkI'm I got pretty goodlow average. Yeah,
well, you actually had a seasontwo snowboard because of the firing,

(02:30):
you got a few days in.I'm not going to tell you how many
because you might you might actually saythat this guy needs to do some real
work. You have done real workfor a very long time, Mike.
I'm looking at your bio of allthe places where you have coached, and
it's pretty astonishing. But we're gonnaget to that. First of all,
let's go back to your roots.Lexington, Kentucky, Virginia. Oh,

(02:51):
Lexington, Virginia. There's two.Lexington's always a big sticking point for people.
My dad was coaching at Virginia MilitaryInstitute. Okay, in Lexington,
Virginia. Although I did end upcoaching in Kentucky, so it makes it
even more confusing, right, Soyeah, son of a coach. My
dad his first real coaching job precededmy birth, was at West Point.
He coached at Army. My dadwas active duty with the Army as a

(03:15):
coach. No kid. Yeah,it was like it was like the old
school way of being a graduate assistantat the military academies. Yeah, so
my sister was born there. Myolder sister was born at Army General Hospital.
And then my dad moved and gota job at VMI and that's where
I was born, and then wemoved when I was six months old.
So as a coach's son, andas you know now, you've done the
same thing with your family, it'sall about moving. How many times did

(03:38):
you move as a kid. Ithink he was a little bit less than
I've moved as an adult. Itried to figure this out recently and it
gets really blurry. I think itwas eight times as a kid. That's
a lot of schools, that's alot of new friends. How did you
get into sports? And eventually youwent on to be a quarterback, a
backup quarterback at Boise State. Soyeah, yeah, So My dad coached

(04:00):
at his alma mater for the majorityof my childhood, which was from second
grade until beginning of my freshman year. My dad was the wide receiver coach
at USC. Both my mom anddad are US alums. My dad played
football there and won a national championshipas a quarterback. Wasn't the starter,
he was also a backup. Hebacked up Pat Hayden and Vince Evans,

(04:20):
so a couple of big timers whenhe was playing there, and played for
John McKay and then John Robinson.So he moved away. He got a
job at Notre Dame of all places, you know, the big rival.
So we moved to South in Indianawhen I was a end of my freshman
year. I was there for mysophomore year and junior year, and I

(04:41):
think that's where I really fell inlove with football and coaching. And that's
an amazing place. It's kind oflike the mecca of college football. That's
somewhere I haven't been that I reallywant to go. Yeah, and this
year I had a chance to goto lambeau Field for the first time.
That amazing. I think the twoof them are standalone. They stand out
as the places that just you justfeel like all the history and all the

(05:02):
fields of what the game of footballhas meant at the collegiate and professional level.
So and then I actually never startedas a quarterback. I was a
backup also because the style of offensein Indiana was not conducive to a six
foot, four hundred and eighty poundquarterback. The quarterback was the lead blocker
in the offense in Indiana at thehigh school. And then so my dad

(05:23):
gets hired at the San Diego Chargers, and I ended up finishing at the
high school in southern California, losalAmidos High School that I'd started at and
had a really good senior year.And then I was recruited to go play
at Bois State and Dirk Cutter wasthe head coach and Dan Hawkins was the
tight end coach, and Mark Helfrich, who ended up going on to being
the head coach at the University ofOregon and go to a national championship was

(05:46):
my position coach. I was exposedto incredible coaches and great people while at
Boise State, and you know thatended up leading to after our first year,
my first year as a red shirtquarterback, Dirk Cutter got the head
coach job at Arizona State, DanHawkins was promoted to be the head coach,
and then this young assistant coach camein named Chris Peterson and that ended

(06:09):
up being my quarterback coach for thenext four years. And just very influential
coaches that were in my life atthat time. And that's really ultimately why
I decided to go into the industry, is because of just the impact that
those types of people had on mylife, more so than your dad even
because and it's interesting because you seethe sons of coaches, either they don't

(06:29):
want to do it because they seewhat's happened and what they've gone through,
how many moves there've been, ormore often than not, they do it
because that's what their dad's doing.Well. I think the greatest thing about
my dad, and the greatest complimentthat I could give him as a very
high level coach, was that hewas a dad first and never really coached
me. He always wanted to beavailable for me if I ever wanted to

(06:50):
talk like quarterback fundamentals, and he'squarterback coach at Notre Dame, so he
kind of knew a thing or twoabout the position, but he just wanted
to support me, be there forme, and love me whatever stage I
was in, whether I was apunk rock skateboard kid in middle school,
which I was and wanted nothing todo with football, or whether I was

(07:11):
getting the bug of wanting to play, you know, high school and college
football. He was just there tosupport me. And so it was more
just seeing the x's and o's andjust the process that I never really got
to see as a coach's kid.I'd show up for games, and I'd
show up for maybe a practice ortwo, because you know, we were
doing our own thing, and rightyou know, we weren't always driving into
South central Los Angeles to go watchpractice every single day. So it was

(07:35):
seeing that process that really impacted meand why I ended up wanting to get
into coaching myself and then being abackup quarterback. I think that you also
then see the game a little bitdifferently. I think about Gary Kubiak and
all the time he spent behind JohnElway with a headset and a clipboard and
watching what was going on, AndI would think that would be a great

(07:55):
way if coaching is something you wantto do, to look at the position
differently, like every wants to start, yeah, but then being that backup
gives you a great schooling for yourfuture. It really does, and I
feel like my coaching career. Infact, I actually listed the beginning of
my coaching resume was my senior yearof college as the backup quarterback. Really,
so I competed for the starting quarterbackjob with Jared Zebranski, who was

(08:18):
younger than me. He was asophomore, and we were neck and neck
until the opening game of the seasonin two thousand and four. We opened
with Idaho and publicly didn't release thestarter until literally like the introductions. So
the entire town of Boise, whichis a football crazed city, was waiting,
like everybody but just to see you, I knew, like the weekend

(08:41):
before. Okay, But you know, I had a choice in that time
whether I can get really bitter aboutthe scenario or I can do something about
it. And what I did isI embraced this competitor of mine, Jared
Zabranski, who ended up being onthe cover of NCAA Football by EA Sport
because of his heroics and the FiestaBowl against Oklahoma two years later. I

(09:05):
embraced him as somebody that I couldpour into and I could give back that
same investment that Chris Peterson and DirkCutter and Mark Helfrich gave to me.
And so I started doing it.It was really fun for me because a
relationship grew and trust grew, andI saw that that kind of impact can
exist if you're willing to put yourown selfish ambitions aside that ego, you

(09:26):
know, like you said, Imean, I think some of the best
coaches out there weren't great players.Now there are some great coaches that were
great players. I mean, there'sno doubt about that. But I think
that when you didn't have all thejust that God given natural abilities, and
you also had the ability to sitback sometimes and watch it. I think
back to the time where I'd havethe headsets on. I was the main

(09:48):
signal caller, and I was communicatingverbally with the offensive coordinator up in the
box, Chris Peterson during games,giving him feedback about you know what Zebranski
was saying to me, and thenseeing plays develop in real time from my
vantage point on the sideline and hearingthe voiceover, if you will, from
the press box about the coverages theblitzes that may or may not be coming

(10:09):
and then either exploiting those or themistakes that were made at the quarterback position
to not have a chance to exploitthose. And I think that that was
really really good for me to reallylearn that and put myself almost in that
role of being a coach. That'sa cool place to be. And not
that I am in any kind ofa similar situation, but when i do
sidelines for Broncos games, I've gotDave Logan in my ear, so I'm

(10:31):
seeing the game from a ground level, which is so different, and it's
very difficult to see everything. Youcan't see everything. You can't The top
side view is the best side tobe able to see, you know,
what's going on. The ground levelis hard, isn't it. It's really
hard, And people like, howdid you not see that? I'm like,
well, because A I'm five tofour and these guys are huge,
and B you're just at the samelevel, so you can't look over the

(10:54):
top and see what's happening. Youcan't. And it's funny, even this
year being my first year where Icould actually be a football fan, because
I've always been just working one hundredhundred and twenty hours a week and never
had even time to watch an NFLgame, let alone go to one.
Every time I took my family ormy kids to Broncos games this year,
we always sat in the highest level. I love the end zone because the

(11:18):
real the view of the pressures andthe coverages. Some of the people that
sat by me at games that haveno idea who I am or what background
I have, and then breaking downwhat was coming like? People are like,
what is wrong with this guy?Does he know? I'm like,
well, I've invested my whole life'sworks into this. But I even better.
I never told him. I wasjust just playing off like a mont

(11:39):
I'm just a weirdo. That isso funny. Okay, so coming out
of college, you start coaching rightaway. You're a GA in two thousand
and five, a couple of yearsat UNLV, and I assume that's with
your dad. Yeah, so Ihad a chance. My dad was the
offensive coordinator at University Utah with UrbanMeyer. Urban was the head coach,
and after that two thousand and fourseason, both teams, the team I

(12:01):
played on and the team that mydad coached at Utah were both undefeated At
the end of the regular season,and so we were actually vying for that.
Remember the BCS era, we werevying for the non Power five.
I don't even know. I thinkthey called them BCS schools. The non
BCS school invite into a BCS Bowlgame. Well, Utah got it,
which sucked, so my teammates weremad at me. But so Utah ended

(12:24):
up going to the Fiesta Bowl.That year, we went to the Liberty
Bowl. And after that year,urban Meyer gets the head job at Florida
and my dad got the head jobat UNLV. There was a time where
there was a possibility that I'd havea chance to go either with Urban Meyer
to Florida or go with my dadat UNLV, and I Joe's going with
Pops. Smart move, yeah youknow, I mean it could be argued

(12:46):
either way. But I was alsonewly married. My wife and I got
married and end of May and wenton her honeymoon and literally the next day.
I started out as a weight roomintern. I was a strength coach
before I got into school as agraduate assistant. So it was a rude
awakening into college football because I thinkmy alarm went off at like three fifty

(13:07):
five am. And it was wehad to beat the heat in the dead
of summer to get our off seasonwork in and so that's where it all
started. Oh my gosh, Soyou and your wife then met at Boise
I was in school at Boise State, but we actually met because of my
dad's career. So my dad gothired at Stanford as the offensive coordinator for
Buddy Tevens and he was only therefor one season. But we met while

(13:30):
I was coming home to visit myfamily and she was coming from her college,
which was a ZUSA Pacific down insouthern California, to visit her family,
and her dad happens to be apastor, So I went to the
church that her dad was the pastorat. I saw a good looking gal
that happened to be the pastor's daughterand ended up meeting her. And it
came out that my dad and herdad were high school teammates quarterback backup quarterback.

(13:54):
My dad was one year older,and so we met, went long
distance for a couple of years,and then we get married three years later.
Oh my gosh, you get marriedand then you start your coaching career.
Did she have any idea what wascoming for the next several years,
because being the wife of a coachis crazy times. It is absolutely bananas.
And to say that she was prepared, or anybody for that matter,

(14:16):
is prepared for that would be amassive miss speaking because you can't prepare for
it. You can't prepare for it. Yeah, and then all the different
stages of life that come. Firsttime, being married and all of a
sudden, I'm working the hours andit's like, wait a minute, I
thought I was going to see thisguy. Yeah, you're never home.
And then you have your first child, and all of a sudden, now

(14:37):
I'm not there to do anything.She's a single parent, aren't they.
Yeah. And then now you getto two kids, and then three kids,
and you keep on going and it'slike it just seems like it.
You never get settled in, youknow, in that role of being a
married couple that are raising kids,because there are no the bandwidth of time
just doesn't exist. There is avery special place in heart and should be

(15:01):
in anybody's heart that enjoys watching footballgames for the people behind the scenes,
particularly the wives of coaches and players. Oh. Absolutely, So you're at
UNLV, then for a couple ofyears, does that sound about right.
And then you go to Stanford fora couple of years. Yes, I
was there with Jim Harbaugh his firsttwo years at Stanford. The reason I
got that job was really pretty crazy. So Jim Harbor had played quarterback at

(15:22):
the San Diego Chargers when my dadwas coaching there. He's the son of
a coach, Jack Harbaugh, ye, who is the head coach at Western
Kentucky at the time. And mydad obviously's coaching. He's the receiver coach,
and Jim's at quarterbacks. We allknow, for whatever reason, I
mean, we struck it up agreat relationship. I used to always warm
them up before practice and on gameday, and he even kind of got

(15:43):
ritualistic about me being his warm upguy for home games at Jack Murphy Stadium
in San Diego. And so wedeveloped a good relationship. And then all
of a sudden, a couple ofyears later, he's coaching at the University
of San Diego and then gets thejob at Stanford. And I just my
dad told me, get on aflight. You can't read to head coach
when they get a job, theirtext messages and phone calls are out of

(16:03):
control. And I know that nowI do firsthand. My dad said,
get on a flight and go tohis press conference. Well, I get
on the flight from Las Vegas.On boarding, I'm sitting in the back
of the plane on a Southwest flight. Pick your own seats, and guess
who walks onto that plane. JimHarbaugh. He's leaving from Vegas as well.
Yes, so his now wife Sarahlived in Vegas. He must have

(16:25):
been there, you know, beforethe press conference and get ready and all
that. And I'm going to yourpress conference. You want to drive together.
Well, the funny part about itis that it's not how I wrote
the script. So I was scaredto death. I hid for a while
and I texted my mom, mydad and my wife. I was like,
hey, Harball's on the act fora flight. They're like, what'd
you do? And I go Iduck down because I didn't know what to

(16:48):
say right. So then I wasable to conjure up enough bravery to mid
flight go up and sit next tohim. And he had an open seat
next to him, and he askedme. He's like, Mike, what
are you doing? Oh, Icame to see you. Yeah, So
I think I might have been likeI was like the Connor Stallions before Connor
Stallions himself. Yeah, I waskind of like he probably thinks I had

(17:08):
his flight tracker all mapped out andeverything I actually did. It was how
convenient you're here on my flight.It was mere coincidence, and so you
basically interviewed on the flight too.You did California, Yeah, on his
way to being a first time Powerfive head coach. Yeah, those years
were incredible. I mean that staffwas unbelievable. David Shaw was the offensive
coordinator and he and I became veryclose. Willie Taggart was the running back

(17:33):
coach. He ended up going onto being the head coach at Florida State
Oregon. Most of whatever happened forme and my coaching career was as a
direct result of that time at Stanford. Wow, and all the different head
coaches that got great jobs. Andyou know that year we were inheriting a
one and eleven Stanford team and that'sthe year that Stanford went into the Coliseum
and we upset USC as forty oneand a half point underdogs. It was

(17:57):
an incredible time. That's cool,and it's funny. Once you get connected
to one tree, when it startsspreading and then all of a sudden,
you're here, You're there, You'vegot great opportunities, but it's getting connected
to that one tree. So thefactor you're able to do that so early
is amazing. I mean, youhave your dad's tree obviously, and that
helps, but then for you tothen get connected with somebody like Jim,

(18:18):
Yeah, it really was a tremendoustime. And the relationships that you do
build, I mean, they impactthe rest of your career, even where
decisions that you make. I mean, I made a couple of decisions throughout
my career to leave the tree,and that's okay, like, and that's
part of my journey, my experience. And sometimes when you do leave the
tree, you leave the tree forgood, and that's okay too, like

(18:41):
I said, And it's so weirdbecause I think that that is kind of
the beginning of my coaching journey.But I don't think it necessarily was my
tree. In fact, I don'teven know if I have a tree,
because I've had so many trees becauseof just I've always been so interested in
different ways of doing things in differentparts of the country, and I think
I can trace that back to beinga coach's kid. And moving around so

(19:03):
much, and I think that reallyaffected some of my decision making with like,
oh, I'm gonna go do thisbecause this is fun and new,
and I would just do it andI wouldn't worry about it. That's cool
to be able to take those leapsof faith. Yea's huge. And the
hard part about some of those leapsof faith if you will or you know
that, you move a lot withwife and with children. So from Stanford

(19:25):
to go to Yale, then yougo to Western Kentucky. That's where you
have your first firing. So notthat I was at Western Kentucky twice,
so I was the second time youwere. My resume is impossible to track
it is. It truly is impossible. In fact, sometimes I don't even
track it well in my own brain. But yeah, So I went to
Western Kentucky in twenty ten as aquarterback coach, yes and past game coordinator

(19:48):
for Willie Taggart, who was afirst time head coach at his alma mater.
He played for Jack Harball at WesternKentucky Wow, and has had such
a close relationship. In fact,he's coaching now for the Taltimore Ravens for
John Harbaugh so he's definitely a partof the Harbaugh tree. Yes he is
the Tree's he's in the roots.Man, he's not a brand down.

(20:08):
Okay. So then from Western Kentuckyyou go back to Stanford David Shaw,
and then you're a Boys to Statefor a year, Notre Dame for a
couple of years. Am I gettingthis right? You're nailing it? Okay?
All right? And then you're backat Western Kentucky as the head coach.
That's my first head coaching job.You know the stretch that I was
in that we talked about really brieflythere. I go back to Stanford,

(20:29):
Andrew Luck is our quarterback. Wego to the Fiesta Bowl. Second year,
nobody's thinking that we're going to bevery good. We lost a lot
of talent. Toby Gerhart's gone,Andrew Luck's gone, Richard Sherman's gone.
Yeah, he was a receiver whenI first got to Stanford, the first
stint and one of my favorite alltime people and competitors. So we the

(20:49):
next year at Stanford, we didn'treally have a clearly defined quarterback. I'm
the running back coach, and weend up winning the Rose Ball that year
with Kevin Hogan as our quarterback.We beat Wisconsin. Barry Alvarez comes out
of retirement as the athletic director,throws the sweater, vest and tie on
and goes and coaches at Rose Bull. We win that game, and then
the next year we go to anotherRose Bowl in twenty thirteen and lose a

(21:14):
classic game came down to a fourthdown stop against Michigan State. So its
Fiesta Bowl, Rose Bull, RoseBull. And then I get hired as
the offensive coordinator at my alma mater. It was my first time to be
a play caller. So there I'mkind of leaving the tree. I'm leaving
that, you know, Harbaugh,David Shaw Tree, and really never went
back per se to that tree becauseat that point I go to Boise State

(21:37):
as the offensive coordinator. Who's yourhead coach? Then? It was a
first year head coach. Also isBrian Harson. Okay, we follow Chris
Peterson, which is a very toughact to follow, and end up having
the best season that Boise State hadhad in three four years and win a
Fiesta Bowl of our own with Jagaias our running back. And that year

(21:57):
statistically we're top ten and literally everycategory that you could think of offensively.
So there were plenty of opportunities totake another step, and it was really
hard because that's to my alma mater. You know, I was wanting to
potentially sink in some roots. Wellthen I get a bunch of calls that
I didn't take a bunch of secbig ten type jobs for coordinator coordinator jobs.

(22:21):
I basically said, I'm staying atBoise State. I get a late
call from Brian Kelly at Notre Dameto be the offensive coordinator, and you
know, I was like that,play shape me. It's the reason that
I love this game and love thisindustry so much. And I actually loved
living there, which not many peoplesay about South Bend, but I did.
Ended up being my wife did too, So we went to Notre Dame

(22:42):
first year there festival. So itwas there for two years, and I
got an opportunity to be a headcoach at Western Kentucky is another place that
I'd been before, and so Iwas returning to a place that had some
familiarity. But I learned a reallybig lesson there is I followed the guy
at Western Kentucky and the guy wasJeff Brohm, and he had just won

(23:03):
eleven games. You know, atWestern Kentucky, that's not common to win
eleven games. I think it's probablyhappened three times in their history, and
I think only twice maybe once sincethey've been a Division one A program.
So we go to a bowl game. The first year, we didn't win
eleven games, but we were beeligible, that's about it. Inherited a

(23:26):
roster that had a lot of freshmansophomores, a lot of the kids that
recruited. We had a lot ofroster turnover. And going into the second
year, I think we're starting eighteentrue freshman or redshirt freshmen, and we
started out one to nine. Therewas an article that was released locally in
Bowling Green that picked up some nationalcoverage that we had two games remaining and

(23:49):
if we won both, and thiswas from insider sources or sources close to
the program, that if we wonboth games that my job was safe.
It was in the air, andif we lost both that I was getting
fired. So we had utep first, we beat them by thirty or something
along those lines, and then wego to play at Louisiana Tech, who

(24:10):
had won the conference a ton inrecent years, and we go and win
that game. It was the firstwin by Western Kentucky at Louisiana Tech and
rustling Louisiana in program history. Youknow, all kinds of happiness in the
locker room. I'm safe, right, And then I get the old text
on Sunday morning from the athletic director, can you meet me in my office
at eleven am? Those are nevergood days. So we all know what

(24:32):
happened Sunday mornings in college, Paul, Yeah, it's always bad. Yeah.
Eighties. I'm going to say this. Eighties. A lot of them,
I know a lot of them.They don't work on Sundays. No,
they're never in the office on aSunday rarely. So when you get
that text to meet them in theiroffice, it's not at the text that
you want to get. No,you know, becoming a head coach and
I think that a lot of coordinatorsend up finding this out a very difficult

(24:52):
way. It's really hard to bethe CEO of a team. It's much
easier to be a coordinator. Thisis your job. You're in charge of
this side of the But then whenyou go to that CEO position, there's
so much to do, and thenyou involve the media and all the things
you have to be responsible for asidefrom just one side of the ball.
Yeah, you learn a lot,and you learn a lot fast. When
I was hired at Western Kentucky,I was thirty four years old. I

(25:14):
was the youngest Division one FBS headfootball coaching college football. Was I prepared
no way, no way, nohow, And honestly, it wasn't the
media. It wasn't the managing ofall the things. It was managing expectations.
I had just come off of astring of five New Year six Bowl

(25:36):
games in a row, and youstart smelling your own stuff a little bit.
I think I was in that place. I was in that place where
I was like, it's me.I mean, heck, I've gone to
three different schools and I've been inNew Year six Bowl games, So that
must be me because of me.Yeah, And you start believing that,
and you carry yourself in a wayand there's an aura about you, and
I think sometimes that can be reallypositive because confidence breeds confidence. I think

(25:59):
my inner douctory press conference, Ithink I I nailed it. But I
nailed it if I was getting thehead coaching job at Stanford or Notre Dame
or I was going to an areaof the country that I'm not from.
I just coached at Yale, Stanfordand Notre Dame in the last ten years
of my career. I think fitis so important to my background, is
not I'm not a Southerner tough inthe South. If you're not a Southerner,

(26:23):
I don't think I fit in great. And did you hear about that
from people? Oh? Yeah,okay, oh yeah, and I what'd
you hear? Well? First off, in my press conference, I read
the room and I realized pretty quicklythat everybody's looking at me like this guy
isn't one of us? Which oneof the other day? Yeah, and
that's okay. I ended up makingsome great friendships, and you know,
you find out really quickly who arethe real real friends and who are the

(26:45):
people that are that are talking behindyou back? And you look, you
learned that in a in a NewYork second, especially as a Yankee New
York second. But yeah, youknow, and then I think, also,
we just had our second born child, sorry third, we did,
just had our third weeks before Igot the head job at Western Kentucky,
and so there was a lot athome too. Oh yeah, So the

(27:06):
combination of the two just made fora very chaotic couple of years. I
bet it did. Wow. Soyou get fired from there and then you're
able to go to Utah State.Yeah, and that was a really healing
time for my wife. And I'mjust getting back out with our people out
west, with our folks, youknow, in the mountains, you know,
Utah State. Logan, Utah isa very small town. You've been

(27:27):
there, I'm sure Mary times.Yeah, it's a tiny town, but
with some of the most amazing viewsand sites that you can see. Just
being around and getting back to theroots of why I got into it in
the first place, which was theplayers, the relationships, and I poured
into that more than I ever had, because I missed it when you're a

(27:48):
head coach of one hundred and nineteenpeople on a roster and twenty coaches including
gas and volunteers and interns and whatnotstrength staff, and you're in charge of
two hundred people, so it's reallyhard to get down to those real,
genuine, authentic relationships and I missthat. Yeah, And it occurred to
me in that time that number one, that's why I got into this in

(28:08):
the first place. It wasn't justbecause I wanted to be the next big
thing or I loved my name beingout there, you know, on the
social media waves about this next hothead coach. So Utah State was really
healing for me as a coach formy family. And I was a quarterback
coach. I had five players inmy room perfect this. And it's funny

(28:30):
because I still am so close tothat group of quarterbacks. In that group
of quarterbacks, Jordan Love who's youknow, now the starting quarterbacks where And
I'm not from Wisconsin, you know, I just love Jordan. My family
loves Jordan. That year is whatI think, just that relationship building that

(28:51):
I was able to re establish thismost important part of coaching is what made
that relationship so deep even to thisday and why our families turned into I
heard cheeseheads just randomly with no geographicalties. We also had Henry Colombie was
a backup quarterback. He went onand transferred to Texas Tech, was the
starter there. Andrew Peasley was ourthird string quarterback. He just finished up

(29:14):
an illustrious career at the University ofWyoming as their starting quarterback. And it
was so fun because we all gotback together and had a reunion here in
Denver when the Packers came to town. Oh that's cool. We all sat
together and it was just like notime had passed. And that was five
years ago, four and a halfyears ago. So yeah, that was
a really fun time just to reconnectwith the roots of why. Yeah.

(29:37):
And I think it's interesting you sayabout the relationship with the head coach.
I think there's I don't want tosay there's few head coaches, but I
think of coaches like a Sunny Lubick. And the one thing you'll hear guys
talk about is, you know,he was like a second dad to me.
It's hard to be a head coachand have those kind of It takes
a certain kind of person that canI don't know if you need to have
and it's hard to do it.You know, Sunny didn't do that in
his first two years. It tooka long time for Sunny to get like

(30:00):
so it takes a long time tobe able to have the right people to
control this parts of your program sothat you can develop those Some head coaches
just never do that's not their mo. They're not there to build relationships.
And you have those relationships with theposition coaches. Yeah, and I think
the thing that Sonny Lubick had inhis era as a young head coach that
nobody has it these days is time. Yes, I mean you don't have

(30:22):
no time. I know, there'snot time to go through some tough seasons.
There's no patience. I'm living proofof that. I mean, that's
true. And that's why it's evengotten more accelerated in terms of winning now
with this portal piece of the puzzle, because now there's no excuse that you
have built in you can get anybodyyou want to get at any time,

(30:44):
yep, which is pay them absolutely. And that's the expectation for your fan
bases, your boosters. The expectationnow is that you just go out and
reinvent your team every year, whichis actually what's happening almost. I mean
you can see here in Boulder.I mean it was a through portal roster
overhaul. I'm talking to the veryvery nuts and bolts of that of that

(31:07):
roster. But the reality of itis is that it's still the most interconnected
team sport on planet Earth. It'sthe only sport that has eleven starters on
each side of the ball and aspecial teams unit. Soccer has eleven starters
and they play the whole game.You know, basketball there's five starters,
baseball's nine. I mean, thisis the most interconnected sport where people have
such vastly different jobs on the field, you know what they're doing, and

(31:30):
there's so much trust that comes withthat. I think just even between the
quarterback and the offensive line, youknow, the secondary and the defensive front.
Everything is so interconnected and your jobis dependent on somebody else doing their
job at a very high level.And I think it's really hard to do
in short order. And that's whyI do think that time in the era
of the sunny Lubick might not existmuch longer. I mean, we're seeing

(31:52):
it fall apart in before our eyes. Absolutely, Nick Saban, I mean,
the greatest to ever do this islike I'm good. He's like I'm
out, bye bye. I've seenit on and he was in the CFP
semi final this year. No,Yeah, that trust. That says a
lot. Okay, So after yourhealing year in Utah State, you then
go to Minnesota where you spend acouple of years, and there's your second

(32:14):
firing there. It is so Igo to Minnesota. Yeah, so PJ
Fleck is a guy that I'd knownfor several years. I met him when
I was the offensive coordinator at BoiseState, so that'd be six years prior
to when I got hired at Minnesota. In twenty fourteen. I was the
offense coordinator. Like I said,at Boise State, we were preparing for
the Fiesta Bowl. We were goingthrough our normal bull practice prep while the

(32:38):
famous Idaho Potatoes Bowl is being hostedin Boise, Idaho. Western Michigan was
where PJ was the head coach atRandomly, I'm working on a Saturday or
Sunday, we're game planning for Arizonain the Fiesta Bowl, and I see
PJ Fleck randomly walking around the facility, and so I recognized him, and
I asked him if he wanted tojust come and join her office staff for

(33:00):
a minute. So he did,and he watched this game plan and that's
ultimately where my friendship with PJ began. Wow in twenty fourteen. And then
I was at Notre Dame in twentyfifteen and sixteen and he was just up
the road. Kalamazoo, Michigan isonly about an hour and thirty minutes from
from South Bend. I actually reconnectedwith him there and so there was a

(33:21):
there was a friendship that wasn't aworking relationship, but it was a you
know, just an organic friendship thathappened. And after the art Utah State,
you know, that's a year atJordan Love got drafted in the first
round. I had the opportunity togo to Minnesota, and you know,
I was thinking at the time thatthat'll probably be a long term place for
my family. I was hoping forthat at that point my career, with
all the moves that we'd have,and with with my kids being at ages

(33:45):
that are starting to get to nowthey're in school age, their school age.
Yeah, and that was a placethat I wanted to not think about
the next job, but to justthink about doing a really good job.
It was tough because I was hiredas the offensive coordinator and j Fleck and
his staff had been there very youknow, established, and they also had

(34:06):
just won eleven games the year before. They went eleven and two. The
very good roster a couple of playersthat went on to the National Football League
from that roster going into the twentytwenty season, and of course, as
we all know the year twenty twentyis synonymous with COVIDES, which probably a
lot of people that either got firedor burnt out started a new assignment during

(34:27):
that year, and so twenty twentywas just all kinds of crazy, especially
in Minneapolis, not solely because ofCOVID, but also everything was going on,
yeah politically charged with George Floyd.Minneapolis was a very unique place to
be at. I loved being thereat that time because it was a transformative
time for society that was happening inreal time. But the drive to University

(34:50):
of Minnesota goes right through where everythingburnt down during the riots that occurred,
you know, in Minneapolis. Sojust a really interesting streng changed, tense
time and also breaking in myself professionallywith an offensive staff that was all established
and had all been there, butyet I'm the offensive coordinator who's going to

(35:12):
be tasked with being in charge ofa group that had done things a certain
way for a long period of time. There were a lot of challenges to
say that there were okay and youget let go from there? Does the
whole staff go or just you No? So twenty nineteen, Kirk Shiaka was
the offensive coordinator. You know,they had tremendous success as a team,
and he goes to Penn State asthe offensive coordinator. I think it was

(35:34):
his dream job, signed a longterm contract and they didn't do so hot
in twenty twenty and Kirk Sharaka wasfired after that season. Twenty twenty we
ended up playing at COVID shortened year. I think we opted out of a
bowl game player's decision to do so. Going into twenty twenty one, we
you know, had pretty high expectationsfor what we were able to achieve,

(35:55):
and we opened the season in twentytwenty one. My second seat with Ohio
State was CJ. Stroud as afirst time starting quarterback. We were fantastic.
We had a running back at Minnesota, Mohammed Ibrahim that was I think,
to this day, the best toughestrunning back I've ever been around.
And he was like at one hundredand eighty yards rushing or total all purpose

(36:19):
yards in the third quarter and Teris'sAchilles tenant first game of the season,
and he was I mean when Isay he was our offense, he was
our offense. He was the guy. And he's out for the season.
We had a couple other injuries thatwere challenging. But it was one of
those years where it wasn't pretty offensively, it wasn't easy, but somehow,

(36:40):
some way, we ended up winningnine games that season, and the regular
season concluded with a massive game withBig Ten West ramifications potentially going in to
be the champ of the Big TenWest, and it was against the University
of Wisconsin. We were dependent uponI believe is Iowa losing in a break

(37:00):
and of course Nebraska blew that becausethat's what they do. So Iowa ended
up winning, ceiling the Big TenWest. Well, we played Wisconsin,
who was I mean, they werethe best defense in college football statistically,
one of the top three in justabout every category you can imagine. And
we found a way to beat Wisconsinat home in Minneapolis. And that was

(37:22):
the first time that University of Minnesotahad won in Minneapolis against Wisconsin in twenty
years, two decades. So,of course, after that game, very
similar to how I felt after WesternKentucky going to beat Louisiana Tech and Rustin
for the first time ever. Ofcourse, I'm not thinking anything about losing
my job, whether the season wasugly or not, or whether the stats

(37:42):
were ugly or not. At theend of the day, you find ways
to win football games. And soI go into the office the next day,
nothing, no issues. Hadn't seenPJ Fleck, you know. I
was sitting in my office and itwas just there was a weird air in
the building, strange air. Andit was probably about an hour before I
was going to head home. Youknow. We'd done all the recruiting stuff,

(38:02):
planned our recruiting trips, and itwas strange. I hadn't been given
any recruiting assignments, and I'm like, what's going on. So I grabbed
lunch with a great friend of mineon the staff and he looks at me.
He's like, hey, man,I think you're getting fired, Like
CEP. Sure enough, I gomeet with my old friend and just fires
me. So PJ fired you.Yeah, he fires me. After that

(38:27):
season, you know, it's kindof one of those that was rock bottom
emotionally my family. You're trying toestablish some semblance of roots in a place
you had had a pre existing friendshipwith somebody, you had gone through some
really hard times in that season toget to a point where you had a
very respectable football season at a placethat perennially doesn't win you know, nine

(38:50):
games. Oh, nobody talks aboutMinnesota. I mean that's you know,
and so you think you've done agood job. At least you've done the
best that you can. And Ifelt that way, you know, at
that point in time, and Ididn't really understand it. But then it
made sense to me three days later, three four days later, when it's
announced that Kirk Shiaka, the previousoffensive coordinator, was hired back as the
offensive coordinator at the University of Minnesota. So he'd been talking to somebody saying

(39:13):
I want to come back, onewould probably assume, yeah, I'll do
that assumption for you, Mike.All right, Well, then from there
you come to Colorado the University ofColorado in twenty twenty two as the OC
and quarterbacks coach under Carl Durell.Dream come true for me. I had
grown up, you know, insouthern California in the early nineties. My
dad's a football coach. My dad'sbest friend is Brian Cabral Oh, yeah,

(39:37):
like me, is a famous interimhead coach of the CU Buffs.
There's been a lot of interim headcoach of the CU Buffs, but my
dad and him coach together at Perduewhen I was a young kid. I
was five years old, six yearsold, and I used to hang out
and coach Cabral's house, you know, with his kids, and we've always
really followed the program. You know. Bill McCartney was an idol to my

(39:59):
dad me. We used to goto the Promise Keeper events and so it
was just it was a place thatI had always loved and admired and respected
from Afar. Had never really beento the state of Colorado, and I'd
always heard great things about it.And I love snowboarding and all the mountain
things, and you know, mytime in Idaho got me exposed to all

(40:19):
the great stuff that you can haveat elevation. So yeah, we played
at Colorado when I was coaching atStanford. I believe it was the first
year in the PAC twelve four Colorado. I remember telling some of the coaches
like this would be the greatest placeto coach at and so I was just
so excited for the opportunity to comework for Carl. Carl Derel is one
of the best human beings and mostrock solid, steady people in this industry.

(40:44):
Good dude just truly a great,great person. I loved my time
with Carl, and I love mytime at Colorado so much that I don't
ever want to leave the place Iknow. And here you are. Yeah,
so Carl ends up getting fired,you become the interim. Rick George
come to you and say, hey, do you want to take this over?
Was there a few people that theythought about or how did you become

(41:05):
an interim? Well, it's afunny story. So we had just lost
to Arizona. At Arizona to godrop down to oh and five, we
had played I wouldn't say elite offensivefootball, but there were signs of trending
in a positive direction offensively. Wehad made the decision to play a true
freshman quarterback, Owen McCown, who'sthe son of twenty nine year NFL veteran

(41:27):
quarterback Josh McCown. It seems likeit, and he had shown some signs
and there was some life on theoffensive side of the ball. So after
that game against Arizona, I thinkwe ended up losing I don't know,
two three scores. Maybe it wasmore, I don't know, but it
felt like there were at least somepositive signs on the offense side of the
ball, and I'm watching the gamefilm in my office before the offensive staff
met and Chandler Durell Carl Sun,who was the director of player personnel,

(41:52):
is in watching film with me,and you know, I remember looking at
Chandler. I'm like, what doyou think is going to happen? And
he's like, you know, Idon't know, Like and he's a coach's
kid like me, so we've kindof seen it all. He's seen it
all. And all of a sudden, you know, I can look out
my office, the little sliver ofwindow that exists, and I see the

(42:13):
people on the fifth floor that typicallyaren't there on a Sunday are on the
fourth floor on a Sunday. AndI'm like, I know this. I've
seen this movie before and I kindof know this thing ends. And I'd
looked at Chandler and I was like, hey, the fifth floor is on
the fourth floor. So you know, of course that's a tough thing for
Chandler, it's a tough thing forme. I'll be honest, I didn't
know if I was getting fired.I've just experienced that trauma multiple times,

(42:37):
and really in the last four years, I didn't know what was going to
happen. And somebody, you know, word of mouth through the office is
that Carl had been let go,that Chris Wilson, the defensive coordinate,
had been let go. And I'mlike, they're gonna take all three,
the big three. So I getasked by Alec Russo, who's the football
administrator, you know at SeeU,And it really does a lot of the

(42:58):
hands on work for the football programfor an administrative standpoint, in absolute stud
of a human by the way,he comes and asks me, Hey,
can you go upstairs and meet withRick? So that that walk up that
stairwell, oh my god, itwas probably about thirty two steps, but
it felt like I was I wasclimbing a fourteen or because I had no
idea was on the other end ofthat. Sure enough, met with Rick,
and you know, Rick told meabout his decision to relieve Carl of

(43:22):
his duties, and told me ofhis decision to relieve Chris Wilson as well.
And he said, you're the guythat I think can turn this thing
around. He said, I've watchedyou. I've observed how you coach.
I see the relationships you have withplayers, I see your energy and you
know that's what we need to goget get this thing turned around. Well,
for me, the good news wasthere was a bye week coming up,

(43:45):
and so I had some decisions tomake in really quick turn around,
namely, who is going to bethe defensive coordinator? If I was going
to promote somebody on the offensive staffto be the play caller and offensive coordinator,
which I did do. Meanwhile,my first Power five staff meeting was
five minutes away, and then myfirst Power five head coach team meeting was

(44:06):
fifteen minutes away, and so Iso I had to go through all that
and in the most incredibly short periodof time, because you know, this
is the only way you can handleit. Because this social media era that
we live in, news spreads soquickly and you have to get in front
of it as administrator. And that'sexactly what Rick George did. Wow,
and you walk up those stairs prettymuch thinking you're going to be fired at

(44:28):
least that there's a possibility. Whoaholy cow? Well, and then you
win your first game. Yeah,so head coach, Yeah, so we
beat cal That was honestly is Ithink to many CU fans like it might
have been one of those moments that'slike, you know, we're cheering on
the worst team in college football.Like it's almost it almost has a novelty

(44:50):
feel that win. But for mepersonally, in my journey and even the
journey that existed from that team meetingand then a bye week and then a
game and just going straight to thecore of the relationship piece with the players,
I made a decision to meet withevery single player on the roster over
the course of that bye week,and so I did it in two days.

(45:13):
And some of the stuff that Ilearned about some of the players journeys
and their lives and what they've experiencedat See You, the amount of head
coaches they've had, it was almostjust incredible to experience that kind of joy,
Like that was the word. Therewas so much darkness in that time
period at See You for a lotof those athletes, and so much losing.

(45:37):
There's so much losing and mel Tucker, you know, leaving literally in
the middle of the night and goingto Michigan State when he just told Boosters
that same day that this was justhe was going nowhere. Yeah. I
mean there's trauma, because there's relationaltrauma, and like you said, you
said it at the earlier part ofthis podcast that head coaches can be that
father figure, you know, andSonny Lubrick was that father figure for a

(45:59):
lot of those players. And whenyou keep seeing that father that you may
or may not have had, eithergets fired. Leaves tells you one thing
does another, like there's trauma thatexists for us on that field and for
fulsome field to be able to stormthat field and a sellout weekend it was
Parents' weekend and Boulder. That isa memory that I'll never forget. And

(46:21):
it truly was, even if itonly ended up being the only win of
our season, it truly was mymost special football memory of my lifetime.
That's nice that you have that,because obviously then the rest of the season
doesn't go six more losses, Ibelieve it is. Then a whole new
regime comes in and you're out themout. Let's fast forward to what you're
doing now, because it's a hugepivot. You didn't go back into coaching.

(46:45):
You took the year to figure outbe a dad, stay in Colorado,
and now you want to do mediastuff, trying to do what you
do, trying to do this stuff. Yeah, which you know what you're
going to be phenomenal at I knowit, and I think it's cool,
and I love the fact that Andthat's a lot of what this podcast is
about, not just about the greatstories about how you got fired and what

(47:07):
happened and the emotions that it bringsup, But then what do you do
too? And I love the wordyou use, pivot. It's a cool
way to figure out what's next andwhat do you do with your life?
Really, the Pivot's been a journey, and it was a journey that I
didn't really know exactly where I wasgoing to go. I knew that I
needed football because I love so manyof those things that I talked about,

(47:28):
the relationships. I just love thesmell of the grass or the smell of
popcorn if there is no grass,right. I love the game of football.
I love what it can be inits purest form. So it started
out just knowing that I needed football. It started out with a neighbor of
mine who lives across the street.And it wasn't but a week after I

(47:51):
had been fired at CEU where hecomes up to me. I call him
Uncle Randy, and Uncle Randy comesup to me. He said, we're
going to get you over at Meathigh school coaches Football. It's like,
Randy, can you just let mebe fired and kind of like be in
my space for a while. He'slike, well, my nephew, Jason
Klatt's the head coach over there,and he's I think you'd love him.
And I'm like, yeah, Iknow, yeah, yeah, Like I

(48:15):
just need to be with my familyfor a little while. Well, fast
forward again several months later, UncleRandy's back at it. He's like,
hey, you've had your time,you know. He's like, uh,
you are familiar with the clats,right, yes, And so he asked
me, how about you just youguys just grab lunch because I think you're
gonna love him. I know whatmakes you tick, and I think the
same things make him tick. Sothen I meet up with Jason Klatt.

(48:37):
Now at this point, I don'tknow what I'm doing with the rest of
my life. I'm thinking about possiblygetting a real estate license. I think
about doing commercial real estate. I'vehad other people ask me about things in
the business world. I even hada possibility of being the head coach at
University of Northern Colorado. The timingof that didn't work. Out because I
was still under contract at CU.There's some challenges there. I didn't know
if I was gonna be retained bycoach Coach Sanders or not Colorado. So

(49:00):
I ended up sitting down with JasonKlatt in Mead, Colorado at the Red
Rooster, shared chicken sandwich nice.And what I didn't know is that Uncle
Randy, who's literally Jason and JoelKlatt's uncle, had told Jason, hey,
we got him. I didn't agreeto anything. So I end up

(49:22):
volunteering at you know, at MeadHigh School, and that the lunch that
I had with Jason confirmed everything thatUncle Randy had said. He's he is
the cream of the crop human beingand leads his program and what's important to
me relationship building better men of youngmen, making it about more than just
wins and losses, doing things theright way. So the players on the

(49:45):
team had no idea who I was. There's like this guy that's yelling,
and I mean I treated my firstpractice and every subsequent practice at Mead High
School as a volunteer wing backed tightend receiver coach as if I was coaching
for a Rose Bowl championship. AndI'm not lying because I only know one
speed. That's the speed I know. And in that time another time of

(50:06):
healing, another time of not reinventingmyself, but continuing on what I really
believe we had started at CU,which was just love the players. Just
pour into them. That's just theywant, that's what they need. Yes,
that's what they need. And itbecame and has continued to be just
such an incredible thing for me tocheck off a box that I want to
check off on a daily basis,which is to be around now fourteen to

(50:29):
eighteen year old young people and justto invest in them. And then in
the process of doing that, Imet Brian Olsen, who's the sports director
at nine News, and I toldhim about, you know, some things
that I started doing with podcasting anddoing a live stream podcast in Boise,
Idaho, which I was asked todo to cover Boise State football. And
so I had my own show onMonday nights with Johnny Mallory in the Boise

(50:52):
Media with Bronco Nation News and youknow that thing I did for eighteen weeks
and it was really fun because Ididn't really know. I've never done media.
I've done head coaches shows, Idid them both at Western Kentucky and
at CU. I've always loved media. I've always though it, found it
to be one of the easier partsof being a coach. A lot of
people hate it. I've always embracedit because I've always respected the people on

(51:15):
the other end of the microphone thatthey have a job to do, just
like I have a job to do, and they're also real people. And
I learned that even some of thenasty stuff that was written about me at
Western Kentucky, I learned that someof the people that were writing that they
have to like, that's their job, whether they editorialize it or not.
They have to appease their bosses.And everybody's got a job to do.

(51:35):
And so I started this relationship withBrian Olsen, who I was coaching his
son, Yeah ty Ty was Iwas a superstar receiver for the Mead Mavericks
and a tremendous young man. AndI told Brian about, Hey, I
kind of enjoyed this media stuff I'mdoing in Boise, and he gave me
an opportunity to be a nine newsBroncos analyst on a rotation with a couple
former Broncos Ryan Harris and Big O, and then I ran into Andy Lindall

(52:01):
mine. Yes, it's all aboutconnections, right. So Andy had been
the sideline reporter for CEU on theradio broadcast. On the radio broadcast,
and I think I was one ofthe only head coaches that consistently gave him
the time of day at halftime forhim to do his job. Thank you.
And so I'm taking my kids tothe Nuggets Western Conference Finals. So
I took my two boys. Wewent to the Lakers game at Ball Arena

(52:24):
where the Nuggets came from behind.It was a tremendous game. But while
I was had this newfound time andI was driving to and from Mead High
School and picking up kids at schooland dropping them off and all the things,
I was listening to the radio.So I was listening to Altitude Radio
and I heard that Altitude during theplayoffs run was going to be doing a
pregame show at Brooklyn's. I didn'teven connect the dots that Andy Lindall was

(52:46):
the sideline guy. To be honestto me, he was just the sideline
guy. You're just only talking tohim in the middle of incredibly pressure filled
situations, right. So I takemy Son's gunner and Griffin to Brooklyn's I'm
walking by the radio booth. Allof a sudden, Andy just like,
Hey, Sanford, is that you? Yeah, I came here to see

(53:07):
you. It was very similar tothe Jim Harbott. I was just gonna
say, it's a Jim Harbor allover again. And Andy, you know,
he asked me what I was doing. I was like, I know,
you know. I told him alittle bit about what I was gonna
be doing with Boise State and doingsome of their media stuff. And he
asked me, He's like, wouldyou ever have any interest in, you
know, coming on as a guestwith Altitude Radio. And It's like,
heck, yeah, I'll do ittomorrow, you name it. I let

(53:28):
me check my schedule that's open,And so I did. I started out
with just a couple of callings,and then I had an opportunity to do
some fillings when the illustrious Nate Krektmanhis voice was a little shot or and
so I did a fill in withAndy, and one thing led to another,
and after about probably about seven oreight guest appearances on Altitude, and

(53:50):
had an opportunity to be on withChris Dempsey and be the Monday and Friday
guy with Dempsey and Company. AndI've absolutely loved it, and I think
it's really important in these pivot timesto find something that you're passionate about.
Yes, and I did go downthe road of talking to people about real
estate or commercial real estate. Forwhatever reason, I just couldn't find that,
like that burning passion that I wasfinding with the opportunity to do this

(54:15):
media type of stuff. And everytime that I coached a football game,
I had some type of little butterflyfeeling that I loved and it was almost
like the unknown of what was aboutto come. Same thing happens in media
every time you take the air,like there's no perfect script. You don't
know exactly what's gonna come up.Yeah, even on the air, there's

(54:35):
major things that come up, likerandomly, Mike Malone signs a brand new
contract and hey, Mike Malone's gonnabe joining us, and I have to
interview the greatest basketball coach on planetEarth today here we are, you know.
And I love that type of I'man adrenaline junkie that lives for those
moments, and that's what this mediastuff has done for me. You know
Kevin Shockey is now the program directorthe PD at Altitude. Within the first

(55:00):
couple times of being on dempseen Companyand knowing that, you know, I'm
still like in a trial phase ofall this, he told me that this
is tremendous advice that he gave meis that if you ever show up to
work and you're not excited about itin this radio space, then get out
of it. And it's very true. And I am so excited to be
on and my even my relationship withChris Dempsey and Steve Nelson, the producer.

(55:22):
You're like, I look so forwardto those times to be on the
air with those guys. Yeah,it's fun. I mean, it's one
of those things that I've done forthirty two years now. I started my
radio career in ninety two and wentradio TV back into radio and it's cool
and I you know, have toesand fingers and different things, and it's

(55:44):
fun. I mean, I justI wouldn't want it any other way.
It's pretty awesome, and it's greattalk about relationships. You're going to be
building relationships a little differently than youdid in football, but it's still all
relationship based. And then you stillbuild those relationships, whether it be players
or coaches, and just in allkinds of different arenas side from football,
which is cool, it really is. Yeah, I think finding your passion

(56:04):
in those times of pivot and thenalso not looking at as starting over,
but bringing with you those experiences thatyou've accumulated. And that's exactly what I'm
doing because I've been in such likepressure filled situations in the game of football.
But strangely, I've always been reallycaptivated by other sports. Even during
my football career. My time awayfrom coaching football, which was very limited,

(56:30):
was really spent on one of twothings, being with my family,
being with my kids, or takingmy kids to sporting events and whether it's
the Colorado Rapids and going to Imean this past year we were in the
end Zone Centennial thirty eight section doingthe chance and cheers with everybody else.
Because I've never been able to bea fan, and I've always loved what

(56:50):
makes coaches tick, players tick,what makes a successful team, what makes
an unsuccessful team, And it's beenso fun for me to jump into this
side of it and you know,utilize my experiences to to bring value to
you know, organizations, media,outlets and it's just beginning. It is
just beginning. We talked before westarted this whole thing about what would be

(57:13):
your ultimate goal talk radio and beinga color analyst. Yeah, and I
had my first taste in doing it, you know, with the High School
Games of the Week with Altitude,was able to be on with Dave Logan.
In some pre production meetings, they'reprobably a can called pre production meetings.
That's how green I am production meetings, production meetings. There is probably
a meeting before the meeting, right, there's always a meeting that one.

(57:34):
No, I don't think they includedme in that one, but you know,
just because I've been on the otherside of that and I know what
good questions are, and I knowwhen then people in some of those production
meetings, I'm like, oh mygosh, what are we doing like these
what are you asking me right now? Yeah, And so it's so fun
for me as having been an offensivecoordinator, a head coach and being in
so many over the last decade ofthose production meetings, you know what goes

(57:58):
into the preparation on the media sideand how a coach can be very beneficial
to your preparation. Absolutely, Ilove that side. I love the fact
that I could still study film.I watch games now so different knowing that
I'm going to be analyzing them.Whether it's a random AFC game that has
nothing to do with the Broncos,it might something might happen in that game
that's really interesting to break down,and to do it from a coach's perspective,

(58:22):
somebody who's lived it. I thinkthat's what I want my niche to
be is. I don't want tobe good at media because I'm famous.
I want to be good at mediabecause I'm good at media. Yes,
and I want to get reps atit, and that's what I'm I covert
any reps. So if you're listeningright now and you want me to do
something, it's what I'll do it. He's all in, all in,
all right, Mike. Last questionfor you, and you've been through so

(58:44):
many ups and downs. You mentionedit was rock bottom when you were fired
in Minnesota. What do you tellpeople when people are hitting that bottom?
What's your advice to them on howto get going and get back up again?
Susie, I'm any Graham seven,okay, which my wife reminds me
of all the time. The glassis not only half full, it's basically
always full. Even if it's empty, it's always full. One thing I

(59:05):
did learn from hitting rock bottom multipletimes being fired, even moments that led
up to those firings that felt likerock bottom, is that you have to
allow yourself to sit in it.You have to allow yourself to stew in
the bad and that's okay. AndI think what that helped me do it,
at least in my marriage and asa father, is that it allowed

(59:25):
me to be vulnerable with my wife, with my kids, and for them
to see that it's okay to havea bad day. But then the other
thing that I picked up from agood friend of mine, Benjamin Lundquist,
a tremendous leader, just the peoplethat develops leaders. He and I were
on a podcast together. He leftme with this really incredible, timely advice

(59:45):
that your current assignment is not yourfinal destination and that doesn't define you.
So wherever you might be, evenif you're sitting in your crud in that
moment, it doesn't define you forwhat lies ahead, and that that is
part of what's going to make yousuper successful, super fulfilled. And for
me right now, I'm finding itbecause I'm rediscovering a new passion, a

(01:00:07):
new fire that I didn't know existedbefore that. That's what I would leave
people with is that if you're init right now, if you don't feel
like there's any direction, it's okayto sit in it and realize that your
current assignment or your current situation isnot your final destination. Keep going.
I love that. That's awesome.Hey, this was great. It is

(01:00:28):
good to meet you, chat withyou, find out more about you,
and I hope that we have theopportunity to work together. I have a
feeling we probably will. Let's doit. I'm in Hey, let me
check my schedule. It's open.Oh it's clear, Mike, thanks so
much. Appreciate you, Susie,thanks for having me on. Thank you,
Mike. I love it. Letme check my schedule. Oh wait,
it's open. New episodes Have,Cut, Traded, Fired, Retired,

(01:00:50):
come out every Tuesday on nearly everypodcast platform. Please follow, download,
and review this podcast wherever you listento podcasts. You can also get
social and find out about new episodeson Twitter and Instagram at ctf our podcast,
and check out the website ctfurpodcast dotcom to find out more about me.
Visit Susiewargen dot com. Thank youagain for listening, and until next

(01:01:12):
time, please be careful, besafe, and be kind. Take care,