November 4, 2025 • 37 mins
What happens when the biggest emotional transition of your life — divorce — collides with the biggest physical one — menopause?
It’s not just about hot flashes or sleep loss.
It’s your identity, libido, mood, memory, confidence, and worth all shifting at once.
And when menopause arrives during or after divorce, it can feel like:
💔 Am I still desirable?
🤯 Why can’t I think straight?
🔥 Is this rage normal or am I losing it?
😔 Will I ever feel like myself again?
You’re not crazy — you’re evolving.
Today, the women of Menopause Love Lounge join us for a raw, grounding conversation about:
✨ Mood swings no one warned us about
✨ Menopause amplifying divorce grief
✨ Nervous system truth when your body feels foreign
✨ Identity + confidence during midlife transitions
✨ Desire, pleasure, and reclaiming your power again
If you feel like your body betrayed you, your emotions don’t match your life, or your confidence is rebuilding from the ground up — this episode will feel like exhale + sisterhood.
You’re not falling apart.
You’re becoming someone stronger.
In today's episode you’ll:
✔️ Understand the emotional + hormonal overlap
✔️ Laugh until you cry
✔️ Feel inspired to rebuild confidence + identity after divorce
✔️ Navigate libido + desire changes with humor
✔️ See this season as better with other women in your corner
If You Loved This Episode
Midlife isn’t the end — it’s the awakening.
✨ Subscribe to Dear Divorce Diary Premium for $5/month to access the EFT session, monthly live workshops, and exclusive product launches.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MyCoachDawn
Instagram: (@dawnwiggins)
Instagram: (@coachtiffini)
On the Web: https://www.mycoachdawn.com
A podcast exploring the journey of life after divorce, delving into topics like divorce grief, loneliness, anxiety, manifesting, the impact of different attachment styles and codependency, setting healthy boundaries, energy healing with homeopathy, managing the nervous system during divorce depression, understanding the stages of divorce grief, and using the Law of Attraction and EMDR therapy in the process of building your confidence, forgiveness and letting go.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_07 (00:00):
What happens when the biggest emotional transition
of your life, read divorce,collides with the biggest
physical one?
Menopause doesn't just stealyour sleep, it messes with your
hormones, your mood, yourmemory, your libido, and when it
hits during or after divorce, itcan make you question every dang
thing your body, your choices,and especially your worth.
(00:24):
Today we have a treat.
The women of Menopause LoveLounge are joining us here on
Dear Divorce Diary.
Six women, six stories to talkabout the moment when hot
flashes and heartbreak collided,and how to turn the chaos of
midlife into your comeback.
(00:47):
Hi, love.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary,the podcast helping divorcees go
beyond talk therapy to processyour grief, find the healing you
crave, and build back yourconfidence.
I'm your host, Don Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer, and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
(01:07):
confidence after divorce.
What an exciting day! I amjoined by the women of Menopause
Love Lounge, an amazing newpodcast that I have been invited
to.
And so we have such a treat withus today: five powerhouse guests
(01:29):
who are pulling back the curtainand sharing their own midlife
confessions, the meltdowns, themiracles, and the messy middle
of it all.
At the top of the episode, I'mgoing to introduce each of the
ladies of the lounge to you, andyou're going to hear each of
them share what they noticedwhen relationship failure or
struggles intersected withmenopause.
(01:51):
And then later, we're actuallygoing to look at some
fascinating data that sort oftalks about the likelihood of
divorce happening during amenopausal season and how the
research explains why so manywomen find themselves
questioning everything betweenages 40 and 55.
And then at the end, we're goingto have a totally different
flavor than we usually do onDeer Divorce Diary.
(02:13):
We're going to play a super fungame that we play over on
Menopausal Love Lounge.
So if you love it, make sure yougo over there to check it out.
It is going to be called HotFlash or Red Flag.
And it's going to be hilariousand healing at the same time.
Ladies, welcome to Deer DivorceDiary.
Thank you for being here with metoday.
Thanks for having us.
(02:34):
I am really excited to introduceeach of you to our listeners
because I've been over inMenopause Love Lounge, which
Menopause Love Lounge with youladies for, I don't know, it's
been a couple months now, yeah?
So I am really excited for ourlisteners on Dear Divorce Diary
to get to meet my friends.
All right.
So I'm going to introduce you asyou share your sort of hot flash
confession confession, right?
(02:55):
So let's start with thismorning.
Let's start with sharing yourOSHIP moment where like
heartbreak intersected withmenopause.
Andrea, let's start with youbecause you the menopause love
lounge is your brainchild.
It's your baby.
You thought of it, you dreamedit up, you visioned it, and then
you invited us all.
And we are all so much moreblessed because of your idea,
(03:18):
baby.
So thank you for being ourdivorced and hilarious, allergic
to pretending host of thelounge.
SPEAKER_05 (03:28):
Thank you for having me, Dawn.
I love that introduction.
First of all, I love that y'allthink I'm so hilarious.
I really try at that.
You keep us laughing.
That's my job.
So for me, my OSHIP moment wasit was shortly after my divorce.
So after I got divorced, I cameout guns ablazing.
And I'm like, I am getting backout there.
(03:50):
I'm gonna start dating and I'mgoing young.
That was my my thought.
Yeah.
I'm like, get it, Andrew.
Right.
And I'm like, oh, well, mybody's ready for this.
I'm ready for a young man.
I can do all this.
So I started my search for thislike young attractive man on the
dating apps.
That's where I went.
I probably set my filter.
I know it was under 30 becausethe guy I went out with was 29.
(04:12):
So I know.
And so um, you know, I thought Iwas really ready for it and I
and I felt I deserved it.
I'm like, I'm ready for some hotyoung sex, no joke.
And I was like, okay, I'm readyfor this.
But what I wasn't prepared forwas the anxiousness that came
along with, you know, not beingchosen or being spoken to like I
(04:34):
was a hookup.
Like that's how it felt becauseI was older.
They're like, ooh, a cougar.
And you know, all the young guysare all like, oh, but women are
wiser and better in bed.
Like that's what they all say,right?
So it just gave me this uhfeeling like I didn't feel like
I thought I was gonna feel.
I felt very like alone in it.
And you know, I started datingthis guy, and it was for a few
(04:56):
months before we were evenintimate.
And even up to the few months,it was a little difficult
because like we went to a BonJovi concert and he's like, huh?
Who's this?
And I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah,this is boring.
I'm like, oh, yeah.
So I was frustrated about that.
But but the first time you guysthat we were intimate when we
(05:18):
went up to his room, thelighting that had been set up,
like the mirrors that werestrategically placed around the
room, like I walked into a pornshop and I was like, oh my God,
but I'm but I'm also like, Iguess this is what they do with
the young people because Ididn't know divorce, you know,
you're you're coming out ofbeing married.
I was married for 20 years.
(05:39):
And so I'm like, yeah.
And so I'm like, this is whatI'm gonna do.
But what I was not prepared for,and y'all are not gonna be
prepared for this either, iswhen he climbed up on me and
started slapping me in the facewith his penis.
And you had to let Andrews gofirst.
Was there any comment on this?
I know.
(06:00):
And you can find this episode onmy podcast from Mrs.
to Miz.
It's called Dick Slapped becausethat is exactly what happened.
I was dodging this thing.
Like, I'm like, he's lost.
It's it's still there, you know.
I'm like trying to catch it withmy mouth.
It was a mess, you guys.
And I started crying.
(06:21):
I started crying in the middleof it.
I became so emotional because Ijust didn't see it coming and no
pun intended there, but Ididn't.
And the fear and the insecuritythat my body wasn't perfect.
I was so worried about all ofthat, and then he's doing all of
this.
It was just so much.
And so, yeah, it's just a lot ofit.
You're I know I needed a goodhug, not a dick in the face.
(06:44):
So, anyways, my fear, I had alot of fears going on there, you
know, just that my libido wasn'twhere it was where it needed to
be because I was 43, I think, atthe time.
So I was already going throughparamenopause.
You know, I was going throughall of these different things.
It was just too much.
It was too much.
And I think for me, that wasdefinitely, oh shit, what am I
doing?
And now I go older.
(07:05):
The young guys ain't gotnothing.
SPEAKER_04 (07:08):
Dawn, Dawn, at the end of the episode, can Andrea
tell us what happened after shestarted crying?
Can we just have that as acliffhanger?
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
There you go.
Oh shit.
Because for me, that story isincomplete.
SPEAKER_07 (07:22):
Yeah, what what a vulnerable and I think very
relatable share.
I don't know about the dickslapping piece, but like about
how hard that is to get back outthere.
Yeah, and not being not preparedfor certain things.
SPEAKER_05 (07:34):
Well, and I think a lot of women that are going
through divorce and and a lot ofyour listeners can really relate
to that because you're lostcoming out and you're thinking,
oh, I'm gonna go this route, andthis is where, oh, this is gonna
be right for me.
Yeah, it's perfect.
They're gonna love me.
And then you are just so out ofyour element, and you have to
like regroup and figure out,okay, where am I?
(07:56):
And so it was just take sometime off and figure out what I'm
looking for.
That was definitely not theright route.
Guns went back in.
Put your guns away.
Put your guns away.
SPEAKER_07 (08:07):
Okay, I would love to introduce Ozzie Osborne.
She is our straight talk lifecoach with main character
energy.
Ozzie.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
SPEAKER_06 (08:18):
Thank you for having me.
How do you follow the dick flap?
I don't know.
With a good cry, that's how.
Aw.
Oh man.
So my oh sh when I was thank youfor that's what a wonderful
question because I it brought mereally far back.
Well, far back about what 14years ago, when I found out my
then husband had an affair.
(08:40):
And where the oh shit moment wasjust my body, I almost felt like
my soul left my body when Ifound the day I found out.
And it was this this almostundoing and the separation from
from me, what I knew, my body,and then my soul kind of
hovering above.
And as he's sharing details withme, I remember distinctly how
(09:04):
how there's a there's almostlike a sense of I'm getting a
little emotional as I'm eventhinking of it, but there was
like a sense of I'm gonna beokay.
I'm gonna be okay.
It's uh it was a it was a eerlysense of calm, almost, almost
godlike, almost just spirit thespiritual moment of of I'm gonna
(09:25):
be okay.
And I and right after you foundout.
Right after I found out aboutthe affair.
Yeah.
And I remember I remember yearslater as I was sort of getting
to know my my perimenopausejourney, I remember that and the
anxiety and and the thedepression and the things that
(09:48):
came with with perimenopause umand then not knowing what would
happen.
I remember feeling somethingsimilar where my again, my soul
left the body and I was feelingthe sense of like you're gonna
be okay.
It was this calm sense.
And and I don't know if if youcould connect the two, but I
almost feel like that waspreparing me for the undoing of
(10:11):
who I was to then the becomingof who I get to be.
And I think that that that yeah,that that was my ocean moment.
SPEAKER_04 (10:22):
Wow, so powerful.
Nice.
That's how you follow Dick Slap.
SPEAKER_07 (10:31):
Yeah.
I think that thank God forspirituality when we go through
these types of transformations,right?
Whether it's divorce or it'smenopause.
And I love how you always bringus back to that like deeply
powerful anchoring.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Lori Gerber, our professionaltruth teller and newly minted
(10:56):
host of your brand new podcast,Love at Any Age.
Congrats, girl.
A baby too.
You have a baby.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
Tell us about your oh shitmoment of, you know,
relationship dysfunction meetshormones.
SPEAKER_04 (11:13):
Yes.
Okay.
So I have shared this onmenopause Love Lounge, and I'm
happy to say I've only had oneoh shit moment where those two
collided.
And I am speaking as someone whohas been with the same man for
30 years.
So this oh shit moment happenedabout, oh, I want to say two
years ago.
(11:33):
Perry Menopause going strong.
I told my husband how I wantedthe kitchen to get cleaned up.
I thought I had all the rightsin the world to lead the way on
that particular evening.
And he did not do it the way Iasked.
And I lost my mind.
I lost my mind.
(11:53):
And I don't know, I it was alsoan out-of-body experience, Ozzy,
because I was just like, I'llgive up every I'll burn this
place to the ground.
Like, I don't, I don't care.
I don't care about anything.
I was screaming like a maniac infront of my aunt, uncle, mother,
my children.
Like I broke all my rules.
I flipped out.
And I and I I think I even criedmyself to sleep, which I don't
(12:14):
even think I've done since I wasa teenager.
So I mean, yeah, it's like amenopausal billboard.
It it it was so artarchetypical.
Is that a word?
It was I felt that I was beingvery quintessential in that
moment.
And I think maybe also for thefirst time, I went to bed angry.
I was like ready to be done.
(12:35):
Like this is this is not okay.
And I believe when my husbandwoke up the next morning, he was
like, uh-oh.
And uh by the way, I'm usuallywrong.
Like, I'm usually wrong.
I'm not like, and I'm okay thatI'm wrong.
I'm okay that I have toapologize.
I I that is it is not a bigfeature of my relationship that
my husband comes back and says,sorry, you know, I was wrong.
(12:58):
You know, and and I don't evenknow, by the way.
I don't think he wasparticularly wrong, honestly.
I mean, I think I I could argueboth ways, but but he did a
little Googling on menopauseovernight and and ordered
himself a book and just and didthe statistics, you know, looked
up the research as to, you know,women asking for divorces during
uh perimenopause.
(13:19):
And he came back and said, Idon't really care who's right or
wrong.
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna listenbetter.
I'm gonna say I'm sorry, and I'mgonna help you figure out what
you need to feel calm enough inin these moments.
And it has been much bettersince.
SPEAKER_07 (13:33):
Wow.
Lori, on behalf of every singleDeer Divorce Diary listener, do
you think your husband would beour temporary like figure, like
husband figurehead?
Do you think we could adopt him?
Do you think we could get himhis own email address?
SPEAKER_04 (13:47):
Can I tell you?
He has been he uh uh created a ast a study, a whole study.
He called it gyne astrology.
It was the stu the the malestudy of women's spirituality,
stut the study of women's studyof spirituality.
He calls it gyne astrology, andhe has written about studying
(14:09):
women's spiritual study.
Whoa.
So he he is an ally, he really,really is an ally.
He's a good role model.
Okay, well, we're gonna have toI admit it, being close to him.
SPEAKER_06 (14:21):
And Andrea and I can can you know have he would he
would be a guest, he would be aguest, and he would be funny.
SPEAKER_04 (14:28):
But he also takes a really long time to make a
point, though.
So that's something somethingyou have to keep in mind.
SPEAKER_07 (14:39):
Oh, all right.
Juni Moon, welcome to DearDivorce Diary, our intimacy
whisperer, and the uh the womanwho helps us really understand
how to trade people pleasing forpleasure.
Welcome.
And tell us about your oh shitmoment.
SPEAKER_03 (14:59):
Yeah, it your your um who I am, what you just
described, is is perfect for myoh shit, oh shit, oh shit, oh
shit.
Because I had a I I had a few ohshit moments.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:10):
Uh so I was dating, um, so I wasn't even in a
relationship when the shit hitthe fan, where my vagina just
was like, ouch, you know, Imean, like, like seriously, and
I know I spoke about this on themenopause love lounge where it
literally felt like razorblades.
And after so many years of beingin a marriage where intimacy was
(15:32):
so challenged and I wasn'tgetting my needs met, and I had
to really learn how to take careof myself and be able to have
good communication and setboundaries, which never worked
in my my marriage.
And and being able to reallytake care of myself, to suddenly
be dating and having this issue,it really dropped me into um a
(15:53):
very scary place because Isuddenly went back into and
who's gonna want me?
Can I even have pleasureanymore?
Um all the stuff, you know.
Uh, and thankfully, because ofthe tools that I have been, what
is it, honing in on for theseyears, right?
And what I teach, I reallyembrace this moment as a okay,
(16:17):
how do I have uh a bettercommunication with people to
say, hey, there's nothing wrongwith me.
I need to to have some help hereand to actually dialogue about
it differently.
So it actually empowered me.
It actually brought me closer touh taking better, deeper care
for myself and and also reachingout to professionals to find out
(16:39):
what I can do differently.
So yeah, it I felt betrayed bymy pussy, and it was so sad.
It was I always loved sex, and Inever got to have the deep
pleasure I wanted with myhusband, and here I am going, oh
my God, and now I'm broken.
But the good news is I'm notbroken and I'm totally fine now.
So having great sex is hard.
SPEAKER_07 (17:01):
Yeah, and having great sex, absolutely great
juicy sex, yeah.
The having great sex part two, Ithink that nobody's gonna want
me.
Like, I don't hear enough ofthis conversation, and maybe
it's because I'm still on theyounger side of perimenopause,
but women talking about beingdivorced and dating and dealing
with menopause and not feelingthat sort of attractiveness that
(17:22):
we associate with youth and notknowing how to own our sexiness
and our attractiveness and ourpleasure in this season of life.
I think men expecting women tolook young and all of that, I
think women get reallyoverwhelmed by that.
So thank you so much forcalling.
Thank you.
Karen Via.
SPEAKER_05 (17:39):
Hello.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
All episode on itself.
SPEAKER_06 (17:45):
We need an episode for her pussy, yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (17:47):
Karen, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
We love the show Welegant WomanRedefining Midlife that you
host.
You are one of our wellnessrealists, and you help women
learn that hormones, sleep, andsanity can coexist.
Yes, they can.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
Tell us about your oh shit moment.
So I'll I'll before I even tellyou that moment, what I will
say, because I know youraudience is an audience of
divorced women, and I know thatthey will get this.
I found that even when you arethe one ending the marriage,
divorce is so traumatic.
It was traumatic for mephysically, it was traumatic for
(18:26):
me emotionally, it was traumaticfor me as a parent.
And in the year that followed mydivorce, I developed such acute
anxiety that I really didn'tknow what to do.
I saw therapists, I saw doctors,I I, you know, took all the
supplements, went toacupuncture, all the things.
And it was creeping into my lifein other ways.
(18:50):
You know, it wasn't just wakingup in the morning feeling
anxious, but it was um being outin public and and feeling a wave
of anxiety coming on, or beingwith other couples and feeling
like I didn't quite fit in.
People I used to hang out withsuddenly didn't feel
comfortable.
I felt like a fifth wheel.
So all of these things were justincreasing anxiety.
(19:12):
Now, the the the sidebar tothis, the side conversation is
that, you know, it what I wasattributing to my divorce
anxiety also, you know, as Ilater came to learn, had very
real physical reasons, right?
I was I I was in the middle ofperimenopause as well.
And the oh shit moment was whenI I was sharing earlier that I
(19:37):
was in a supermarket foodshopping in the middle of the
day, feeling fine when I walkedin and just suddenly had this
panic attack coming on, and Ididn't know what to do, and I
left the wagon and I ran out tomy car and I ran home.
And I I all of the anxiety wasbeing compounded by such an
intense loneliness because goingout no longer felt comfortable
(20:02):
for me.
And I just had lost the ability,probably, you know,
perimenopause does this to us,but I lost the ability to put on
a smile and fake it.
I I preferred to be by myself athome than going out and putting
on an act.
And I I was withdrawing more andmore, and it wasn't really until
I took matters into my own handsand I became certified in
(20:26):
women's wellness, and I I reallywent into this deep dive into
what's going on for mephysically, but also what's
going on for me emotionally.
And when I attacked it from bothof those angles, I was able to
make myself feel better and Iand I was able to get myself
back on track.
So I guess I guess the messagein it for your listeners is it
(20:47):
is quite possible.
You know, it it takes a lot ofwork, but it's possible to get
there for sure.
SPEAKER_07 (20:53):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I'm gonna piggyback on somethingthat you said, which is that you
lost the ability to just sort ofput on a smile and go about it,
right?
And I think when we talk aboutthe intersection of
perimenopause and relationshiphealth or relationship breakdown
and divorce, that's a reallyinteresting and powerful
inquiry.
Is menopause the truth serumthat burns away everything else?
(21:21):
And so then we can't fake it inrelationships anymore in the way
that we used to.
Yeah, certainly pro delight.
And I know Ozzy and I were uhtalking recently about Dr.
Mindy Pell's and her researchand menopause and all of that.
And I heard her talk about howwhen we hit puberty, how our
brain map changes because thehormones flood in and then we
(21:43):
become women who adapt inrelationship.
And when menopause comes andthose hormones flood out, all of
a sudden we're no longermotivated to adapt in
relationship in the way that thehormones facilitate it.
And so if that relationshipisn't adapting with us, it's
like can it withstand the tollof perimenopause and menopause?
(22:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (22:05):
Fascinating.
So good so real.
Wow.
SPEAKER_07 (22:08):
Friends, let's talk about some of the data that just
sort of grounds everything thaty'all have just shared, right?
So here's some stats.
Jump in wherever.
Women are twice as likely toinitiate divorce after 40.
So, like at that intersection ofperimenopause.
Do you see that in your ownmarriages, in your friends, in
your yeah, what you know?
(22:30):
Yes, that was kids are me.
SPEAKER_04 (22:32):
You can stop saying I'm staying for the kids.
First of all, second of all, youno longer have the buffer.
SPEAKER_03 (22:44):
It's a wake up call.
Menopause is a wake-up call, andit's a it's a time for us to
like put a stake in the groundand say, It's my turn.
Is this working for me?
And if it's not, I'm out ofhere.
You know, so yeah, I I reallythink we give ourselves
permission to really step intonew chapters when this time
happens for us.
SPEAKER_05 (23:02):
Yeah.
That was exactly what I did atthe at the time.
My ex-husband hadn't beenworking for a while.
So I was paying all of the billsall of the time.
Everything was on me.
He was on tour with my son forKids Bop.
I was not on, I was just not inlove with him anymore.
And I had that oh shit moment oflike, okay, Andre Shouldter, get
(23:22):
off the pot, really.
Like you are now 40, you're inyour early 40s, and you're not
getting any younger.
Your body is going through allthese changes.
Like, let's go now, because Idon't want to waste another 10
years or whatever in arelationship that no longer
serves me.
And I just felt like there wassomething more for him and I out
there separately.
SPEAKER_07 (23:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
So this is not going to be ashocker, but 68% of women report
that midlife hormonal shiftsintensified their marital
dissatisfaction.
So it's sort of all pointingright to this idea that when a
decline in hormones likeoxytocin, serotonin, you name
it, right, those are thechemicals that buffer that you
(24:04):
mentioned.
There's no buffer left.
Yeah.
So it's like, oh crap.
So it's really interesting toconsider how many divorces are
actually hormone divorces indisguise.
What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
I think, I think it requires a great deal of energy
to make something okay, to tryto fit a a square peg into a
round hole, as they say.
Like it requires a lot of energywhen you're in a relationship
and it's not really supportiveto you.
And it's it's you know, drainingyou, and it's requiring a lot of
(24:39):
repair, and it's requiring a lotof you know suppression, and
that that's exhausting.
And I think that, you know, themenopause transition, our bodies
have to allocate our energy towhat's happening physically.
We no longer have the energyreserves to be able to maintain
relationships that are notsolid, that are not healthy.
(25:00):
And so I think whether womenrealize that on a conscious
level or not, part of what'shappening is that we just can no
longer forge ahead.
We can do that when we're young,but when we get to this stage,
it drains us, it exhausts us ina way that we just can't ignore
it anymore.
unknown (25:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Well said.
SPEAKER_04 (25:22):
We want to talk about being with the same guy
for 30 years.
And I just want to say thefoundation of our relationship
was in self-help andtransformation.
I mean, we fell in love becauseof Head Hart and Who Ha, right?
We were a practical match, wecared about each other, and we
were attracted to each other.
But we started doing personalgrowth when we were in our 20s
(25:46):
together.
And I'm saying it because it'swhy we can weather these storms.
Because we said in sickness andhealth, and he's had sickness
and health, and I've hadsickness and health, and he's
had changes, and I've hadchanges, and we've weathered it
because of what we were groundedin.
And that's the opportunity ofthe second time around after
divorce.
And because you got married whenyou were in your 20s or your
(26:06):
30s, and there was no self-helpback then, or maybe you didn't
have it, or you didn't knowabout it prioritizing it or
whatever.
And he didn't, and then you wereraising kids and having work,
and and now you're in your 40sand 50s, and it's like, oh, I
really can try.
And the men are divorced too,and they're seeking help too,
and getting better too.
So now there's this whole newgreat opportunity to actually
(26:28):
start your next loverelationship.
This is my specialty in my work,from that perspective, you know,
from the grounding of personalgrowth, which is what you need,
the communication tools, thetruth telling.
That's what you need for the allthe uh predictable fluctuations
that will be happening for therest of your life as you age,
(26:49):
and he'll be having them too.
So that's my plug for hope.
SPEAKER_07 (26:55):
Well said, and I think Juni would would second
that in her currentrelationship.
I would certainly third that inmy marriage.
Like, yeah, without these toolsand the willingness, yeah.
Karen, yeah, you just wentthrough a big thing where you
were speaking your truth and itwent over so well because you're
in a relationship where there'san investment in, yeah, problem
solving and collaboration andwell said.
SPEAKER_03 (27:18):
And an investment in the relationship to take it to
that higher level and not justdo what we've always done.
So, yeah, like again, anotherplus one to to Lori, because
when we have done the inner workand we have the tools, it it
there's less drama.
There's just less, it's thechallenges are there, but it
it's it's not these big tidalwaves.
(27:40):
It's it's more like choppywaters, and you know how to
navigate it in a different waywith love in the container with
the tools, with the paddle.
Because I didn't have a paddlein my 20-year marriage, and it
was painful.
SPEAKER_07 (27:53):
And this idea of mutual support, right?
When two people arecontributing, everything is
easier.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (27:59):
Yeah.
Cause I'll speak for the singlesand say that, you know, I've
been single and and and some ofthe things that you guys were
saying in terms of, well, firstof all, I don't have the extra
support.
I mean, I do through friends,but I don't have a partner to to
sort of lean on, right?
And also I don't have thetolerance to for the dating
world or the or the or just thenuance of dating.
The focus is on me, the focusisn't on what I'm going through,
(28:23):
and and and uh so I've just putdating on hold.
I just chose me and I I said,you know, for now until I sort
of come back into my body, Icome back into a place of of
regularity and and a place whereI feel that I'm sexy and that
I'm feeling good in my body, Ithink I would step into into
dating again with but I I I tooka break.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
I love that you said that, Ozzy, because I think I
think it's so important,especially in this midlife stage
where we are dealing with somuch physically, to really feel
really good ourselves beforejumping back into dating.
You know, I I for me I it tookme over a year of just really
(29:07):
taking great care of myselfbecause I knew that until I did
that, I wouldn't be healthy in arelationship.
You know, and I and so I Ireally applaud you doing that.
I know how you feel, and I know,you know, how depleted we can be
for a lot of reasons.
And you don't want to be datingwith that energy, you know.
(29:28):
I I nobody wants to be datingunless they feel really great
themselves.
SPEAKER_05 (29:33):
Yeah.
I'm waiting on that day forOzzy.
Her and I are going out on theprowl.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
Out on the prowl.
Love it.
Love it.
SPEAKER_07 (29:45):
Okay, loves.
Can we show our listeners onDreadoverse Diary this fun game
that we play at the end ofMenipause Love Lounge?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay, yes.
Amazing.
Does everybody have theirpaddle?
If you I don't know.
Okay.
You can if you're not, if you'relistening, you can't see our
paddle.
Right?
So for this game, we are playinghot flash or red flag.
(30:06):
So the idea is that I'm going toread a few scenarios that could
totally happen mid-divorce,mid-menopause, mid-meltdown, and
each of you are gonna vote.
Is it just a hormonal moment oris it a full-blown relationship
red flag?
So are we gonna do green forhormones and red for red flag?
Okay, because we have ourtwo-sided paddles, right?
(30:26):
And there's a green and there'sa red.
Okay, let's play.
You ready?
Yes.
Alright, first one.
He says you've been alreadymoody lately.
Is it is this a hot flash or arelationship red flag?
I think it's this.
SPEAKER_04 (30:47):
Hot flash?
We're letting him we're lettinghim make one comment.
One comment.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_07 (30:54):
Maybe it is maybe we have been moody lately and he's
just making an observation.
All right, so depends on thegrease.
SPEAKER_04 (31:00):
Depends on the tone.
SPEAKER_07 (31:02):
Depends on the tone.
SPEAKER_03 (31:03):
That's moody.
SPEAKER_04 (31:04):
Is it compassionate or accusatory?
SPEAKER_03 (31:07):
But also, is she shoving emotions down where
she's starting to get moody?
And that might have nothing todo with hormones, just not
expressing herself.
So that's why I was kind of kindof doing both.
I love it.
Flip-flop.
Yeah.
Okay, next one.
SPEAKER_07 (31:23):
You suddenly want to throw out everything you own and
start over.
Is this a midlife purge hotflash, or is this like an
existential red flag that isgreen?
SPEAKER_06 (31:34):
I love a good purge.
unknown (31:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (31:41):
That's when you know it's a red flag when you're
about to cut the bangs.
Baby bangs.
SPEAKER_02 (31:46):
I met bangs.
Those moments a few weeks ago.
What the heck?
But you didn't do it.
I didn't do it.
Yes, I'm post-menopausal.
Yes.
Thank God.
SPEAKER_05 (31:56):
It's a good two-year mistake on that one.
SPEAKER_07 (32:00):
Okay, awesome.
Ready for the next one?
Yes.
This is this one is in the zone,the solidly in the divorce zone,
right?
Regarding the ex.
He texts.
Hope you're doing okay.
Right after posting a vacationpick with someone new.
Oh.
(32:21):
Oh.
Red flag or hot?
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
Oh, we posted the photo or he posted the photo.
He posted it.
He posted the photo.
He posted it and then checked inwith you.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
I wish this was a different finger for that.
Yeah, right.
It's more like that.
SPEAKER_07 (32:39):
Or like we did an entire episode on this.
It's just classic avoid anattachment style man move.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
Validation, validation of yourdivorce.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
100%.
SPEAKER_07 (32:52):
Yes.
Validate that divorce.
Okay.
This next one is really, reallygood.
He blames your night sweats forwhy you don't touch him anymore.
Hot flash excuse or red flagdeflection.
SPEAKER_06 (33:05):
No blame, baby.
No blame.
Blame is a red flag.
SPEAKER_00 (33:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (33:09):
It's a bummer.
SPEAKER_04 (33:10):
He's not smarter.
Let's blame him for dignity, notvery too much.
Richard isn't him.
Chad.
I think Chad might be.
This might be Chad's level ofintelligence.
SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
Could be, could be, could be.
SPEAKER_07 (33:29):
Okay.
Okay, this is a good one.
You feel ragey when he breathestoo loud.
Is it menopausal?
SPEAKER_02 (33:37):
Or is it Zonin and Lori?
Zone in on Laurie.
SPEAKER_03 (33:41):
Going here.
I'm going here.
Relationship red flag?
Yeah, because what again, I Ilived it.
I lived it for so many yearswhere I just kept pushing down
my feelings and I just theresentment built and built, and
then it was just like, ah, hisbreath, you know, whatever it
was.
Right.
So yeah, maybe it's this, butcould be both.
Lori's got a list.
SPEAKER_07 (34:02):
Oh my god, they have to be alive.
SPEAKER_04 (34:03):
They do.
They do have to be alive.
Okay.
SPEAKER_07 (34:06):
Last one.
Last one.
You wake up at 3 a.m.
wanting both a divorce and acroissant.
Normal perimenopause craving orred flag that you need your
frickin' freedom.
Follow the blue.
SPEAKER_05 (34:22):
When you say it that way.
I know.
Middle.
Middle.
Yeah, yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_07 (34:27):
It's a flip.
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
It's a flipper.
SPEAKER_07 (34:28):
It's a flipper.
It could be both.
It is both.
Perimenopause and uh a sign tohave a consultation with your
favorite family law attorney.
SPEAKER_01 (34:37):
But you know, we can't believe anything we think
in the middle of the night.
It's like all the darkest, mostawful thoughts in the middle of
the night.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (34:44):
You shouldn't believe anything.
And you have to in your mindmakes up anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (34:47):
You have to do the croissant test, which is have it
in the morning and see if youfeel better.
And then you'll know if acroissant is actually good for
you, and you'll also know if youstill want a divorce.
SPEAKER_05 (34:57):
You heard it here later.
Love croissant.
Is it a chocolate croissant?
I was just gonna ask it, Andrea.
SPEAKER_07 (35:04):
I might get up for that.
Yeah.
I called producer Joy thismorning and she was at Sam's
Club, and she's like, I'm atSam's Club, what do you need?
I was like, a box of croissants.
Croissant, we all right,darlings.
Thank you so much for joining ushere on Dear Divorce Diary.
Ladies, if you want more ofthese amazing women you heard
today, you can find MenopauseLove Lounge anywhere you get
(35:28):
podcasts.
And so just search it up.
Uh, we're on Instagram, we areon YouTube.
When you watch it live, it'sfunnier.
And ladies, thank you so muchfor being here today, for being
my friends, for helping me justenjoy midlife in a completely
different way.
I love you all so much.
SPEAKER_05 (35:47):
Thank you for having us.
What happens when the biggest emotional transition
of your life, read divorce,collides with the biggest
physical one?
Menopause doesn't just stealyour sleep, it messes with your
hormones, your mood, yourmemory, your libido, and when it
hits during or after divorce, itcan make you question every dang
thing your body, your choices,and especially your worth.
(00:24):
Today we have a treat.
The women of Menopause LoveLounge are joining us here on
Dear Divorce Diary.
Six women, six stories to talkabout the moment when hot
flashes and heartbreak collided,and how to turn the chaos of
midlife into your comeback.
(00:47):
Hi, love.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary,the podcast helping divorcees go
beyond talk therapy to processyour grief, find the healing you
crave, and build back yourconfidence.
I'm your host, Don Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer, and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
(01:07):
confidence after divorce.
What an exciting day! I amjoined by the women of Menopause
Love Lounge, an amazing newpodcast that I have been invited
to.
And so we have such a treat withus today: five powerhouse guests
(01:29):
who are pulling back the curtainand sharing their own midlife
confessions, the meltdowns, themiracles, and the messy middle
of it all.
At the top of the episode, I'mgoing to introduce each of the
ladies of the lounge to you, andyou're going to hear each of
them share what they noticedwhen relationship failure or
struggles intersected withmenopause.
(01:51):
And then later, we're actuallygoing to look at some
fascinating data that sort oftalks about the likelihood of
divorce happening during amenopausal season and how the
research explains why so manywomen find themselves
questioning everything betweenages 40 and 55.
And then at the end, we're goingto have a totally different
flavor than we usually do onDeer Divorce Diary.
(02:13):
We're going to play a super fungame that we play over on
Menopausal Love Lounge.
So if you love it, make sure yougo over there to check it out.
It is going to be called HotFlash or Red Flag.
And it's going to be hilariousand healing at the same time.
Ladies, welcome to Deer DivorceDiary.
Thank you for being here with metoday.
Thanks for having us.
(02:34):
I am really excited to introduceeach of you to our listeners
because I've been over inMenopause Love Lounge, which
Menopause Love Lounge with youladies for, I don't know, it's
been a couple months now, yeah?
So I am really excited for ourlisteners on Dear Divorce Diary
to get to meet my friends.
All right.
So I'm going to introduce you asyou share your sort of hot flash
confession confession, right?
(02:55):
So let's start with thismorning.
Let's start with sharing yourOSHIP moment where like
heartbreak intersected withmenopause.
Andrea, let's start with youbecause you the menopause love
lounge is your brainchild.
It's your baby.
You thought of it, you dreamedit up, you visioned it, and then
you invited us all.
And we are all so much moreblessed because of your idea,
(03:18):
baby.
So thank you for being ourdivorced and hilarious, allergic
to pretending host of thelounge.
SPEAKER_05 (03:28):
Thank you for having me, Dawn.
I love that introduction.
First of all, I love that y'allthink I'm so hilarious.
I really try at that.
You keep us laughing.
That's my job.
So for me, my OSHIP moment wasit was shortly after my divorce.
So after I got divorced, I cameout guns ablazing.
And I'm like, I am getting backout there.
(03:50):
I'm gonna start dating and I'mgoing young.
That was my my thought.
Yeah.
I'm like, get it, Andrew.
Right.
And I'm like, oh, well, mybody's ready for this.
I'm ready for a young man.
I can do all this.
So I started my search for thislike young attractive man on the
dating apps.
That's where I went.
I probably set my filter.
I know it was under 30 becausethe guy I went out with was 29.
(04:12):
So I know.
And so um, you know, I thought Iwas really ready for it and I
and I felt I deserved it.
I'm like, I'm ready for some hotyoung sex, no joke.
And I was like, okay, I'm readyfor this.
But what I wasn't prepared forwas the anxiousness that came
along with, you know, not beingchosen or being spoken to like I
(04:34):
was a hookup.
Like that's how it felt becauseI was older.
They're like, ooh, a cougar.
And you know, all the young guysare all like, oh, but women are
wiser and better in bed.
Like that's what they all say,right?
So it just gave me this uhfeeling like I didn't feel like
I thought I was gonna feel.
I felt very like alone in it.
And you know, I started datingthis guy, and it was for a few
(04:56):
months before we were evenintimate.
And even up to the few months,it was a little difficult
because like we went to a BonJovi concert and he's like, huh?
Who's this?
And I'm like, Oh yeah, yeah,this is boring.
I'm like, oh, yeah.
So I was frustrated about that.
But but the first time you guysthat we were intimate when we
(05:18):
went up to his room, thelighting that had been set up,
like the mirrors that werestrategically placed around the
room, like I walked into a pornshop and I was like, oh my God,
but I'm but I'm also like, Iguess this is what they do with
the young people because Ididn't know divorce, you know,
you're you're coming out ofbeing married.
I was married for 20 years.
(05:39):
And so I'm like, yeah.
And so I'm like, this is whatI'm gonna do.
But what I was not prepared for,and y'all are not gonna be
prepared for this either, iswhen he climbed up on me and
started slapping me in the facewith his penis.
And you had to let Andrews gofirst.
Was there any comment on this?
I know.
(06:00):
And you can find this episode onmy podcast from Mrs.
to Miz.
It's called Dick Slapped becausethat is exactly what happened.
I was dodging this thing.
Like, I'm like, he's lost.
It's it's still there, you know.
I'm like trying to catch it withmy mouth.
It was a mess, you guys.
And I started crying.
(06:21):
I started crying in the middleof it.
I became so emotional because Ijust didn't see it coming and no
pun intended there, but Ididn't.
And the fear and the insecuritythat my body wasn't perfect.
I was so worried about all ofthat, and then he's doing all of
this.
It was just so much.
And so, yeah, it's just a lot ofit.
You're I know I needed a goodhug, not a dick in the face.
(06:44):
So, anyways, my fear, I had alot of fears going on there, you
know, just that my libido wasn'twhere it was where it needed to
be because I was 43, I think, atthe time.
So I was already going throughparamenopause.
You know, I was going throughall of these different things.
It was just too much.
It was too much.
And I think for me, that wasdefinitely, oh shit, what am I
doing?
And now I go older.
(07:05):
The young guys ain't gotnothing.
SPEAKER_04 (07:08):
Dawn, Dawn, at the end of the episode, can Andrea
tell us what happened after shestarted crying?
Can we just have that as acliffhanger?
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned.
There you go.
Oh shit.
Because for me, that story isincomplete.
SPEAKER_07 (07:22):
Yeah, what what a vulnerable and I think very
relatable share.
I don't know about the dickslapping piece, but like about
how hard that is to get back outthere.
Yeah, and not being not preparedfor certain things.
SPEAKER_05 (07:34):
Well, and I think a lot of women that are going
through divorce and and a lot ofyour listeners can really relate
to that because you're lostcoming out and you're thinking,
oh, I'm gonna go this route, andthis is where, oh, this is gonna
be right for me.
Yeah, it's perfect.
They're gonna love me.
And then you are just so out ofyour element, and you have to
like regroup and figure out,okay, where am I?
(07:56):
And so it was just take sometime off and figure out what I'm
looking for.
That was definitely not theright route.
Guns went back in.
Put your guns away.
Put your guns away.
SPEAKER_07 (08:07):
Okay, I would love to introduce Ozzie Osborne.
She is our straight talk lifecoach with main character
energy.
Ozzie.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
SPEAKER_06 (08:18):
Thank you for having me.
How do you follow the dick flap?
I don't know.
With a good cry, that's how.
Aw.
Oh man.
So my oh sh when I was thank youfor that's what a wonderful
question because I it brought mereally far back.
Well, far back about what 14years ago, when I found out my
then husband had an affair.
(08:40):
And where the oh shit moment wasjust my body, I almost felt like
my soul left my body when Ifound the day I found out.
And it was this this almostundoing and the separation from
from me, what I knew, my body,and then my soul kind of
hovering above.
And as he's sharing details withme, I remember distinctly how
(09:04):
how there's a there's almostlike a sense of I'm getting a
little emotional as I'm eventhinking of it, but there was
like a sense of I'm gonna beokay.
I'm gonna be okay.
It's uh it was a it was a eerlysense of calm, almost, almost
godlike, almost just spirit thespiritual moment of of I'm gonna
(09:25):
be okay.
And I and right after you foundout.
Right after I found out aboutthe affair.
Yeah.
And I remember I remember yearslater as I was sort of getting
to know my my perimenopausejourney, I remember that and the
anxiety and and the thedepression and the things that
(09:48):
came with with perimenopause umand then not knowing what would
happen.
I remember feeling somethingsimilar where my again, my soul
left the body and I was feelingthe sense of like you're gonna
be okay.
It was this calm sense.
And and I don't know if if youcould connect the two, but I
almost feel like that waspreparing me for the undoing of
(10:11):
who I was to then the becomingof who I get to be.
And I think that that that yeah,that that was my ocean moment.
SPEAKER_04 (10:22):
Wow, so powerful.
Nice.
That's how you follow Dick Slap.
SPEAKER_07 (10:31):
Yeah.
I think that thank God forspirituality when we go through
these types of transformations,right?
Whether it's divorce or it'smenopause.
And I love how you always bringus back to that like deeply
powerful anchoring.
Yeah.
Amazing.
Lori Gerber, our professionaltruth teller and newly minted
(10:56):
host of your brand new podcast,Love at Any Age.
Congrats, girl.
A baby too.
You have a baby.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
Tell us about your oh shitmoment of, you know,
relationship dysfunction meetshormones.
SPEAKER_04 (11:13):
Yes.
Okay.
So I have shared this onmenopause Love Lounge, and I'm
happy to say I've only had oneoh shit moment where those two
collided.
And I am speaking as someone whohas been with the same man for
30 years.
So this oh shit moment happenedabout, oh, I want to say two
years ago.
(11:33):
Perry Menopause going strong.
I told my husband how I wantedthe kitchen to get cleaned up.
I thought I had all the rightsin the world to lead the way on
that particular evening.
And he did not do it the way Iasked.
And I lost my mind.
I lost my mind.
(11:53):
And I don't know, I it was alsoan out-of-body experience, Ozzy,
because I was just like, I'llgive up every I'll burn this
place to the ground.
Like, I don't, I don't care.
I don't care about anything.
I was screaming like a maniac infront of my aunt, uncle, mother,
my children.
Like I broke all my rules.
I flipped out.
And I and I I think I even criedmyself to sleep, which I don't
(12:14):
even think I've done since I wasa teenager.
So I mean, yeah, it's like amenopausal billboard.
It it it was so artarchetypical.
Is that a word?
It was I felt that I was beingvery quintessential in that
moment.
And I think maybe also for thefirst time, I went to bed angry.
I was like ready to be done.
(12:35):
Like this is this is not okay.
And I believe when my husbandwoke up the next morning, he was
like, uh-oh.
And uh by the way, I'm usuallywrong.
Like, I'm usually wrong.
I'm not like, and I'm okay thatI'm wrong.
I'm okay that I have toapologize.
I I that is it is not a bigfeature of my relationship that
my husband comes back and says,sorry, you know, I was wrong.
(12:58):
You know, and and I don't evenknow, by the way.
I don't think he wasparticularly wrong, honestly.
I mean, I think I I could argueboth ways, but but he did a
little Googling on menopauseovernight and and ordered
himself a book and just and didthe statistics, you know, looked
up the research as to, you know,women asking for divorces during
uh perimenopause.
(13:19):
And he came back and said, Idon't really care who's right or
wrong.
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna listenbetter.
I'm gonna say I'm sorry, and I'mgonna help you figure out what
you need to feel calm enough inin these moments.
And it has been much bettersince.
SPEAKER_07 (13:33):
Wow.
Lori, on behalf of every singleDeer Divorce Diary listener, do
you think your husband would beour temporary like figure, like
husband figurehead?
Do you think we could adopt him?
Do you think we could get himhis own email address?
SPEAKER_04 (13:47):
Can I tell you?
He has been he uh uh created a ast a study, a whole study.
He called it gyne astrology.
It was the stu the the malestudy of women's spirituality,
stut the study of women's studyof spirituality.
He calls it gyne astrology, andhe has written about studying
(14:09):
women's spiritual study.
Whoa.
So he he is an ally, he really,really is an ally.
He's a good role model.
Okay, well, we're gonna have toI admit it, being close to him.
SPEAKER_06 (14:21):
And Andrea and I can can you know have he would he
would be a guest, he would be aguest, and he would be funny.
SPEAKER_04 (14:28):
But he also takes a really long time to make a
point, though.
So that's something somethingyou have to keep in mind.
SPEAKER_07 (14:39):
Oh, all right.
Juni Moon, welcome to DearDivorce Diary, our intimacy
whisperer, and the uh the womanwho helps us really understand
how to trade people pleasing forpleasure.
Welcome.
And tell us about your oh shitmoment.
SPEAKER_03 (14:59):
Yeah, it your your um who I am, what you just
described, is is perfect for myoh shit, oh shit, oh shit, oh
shit.
Because I had a I I had a few ohshit moments.
SPEAKER_00 (15:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (15:10):
Uh so I was dating, um, so I wasn't even in a
relationship when the shit hitthe fan, where my vagina just
was like, ouch, you know, Imean, like, like seriously, and
I know I spoke about this on themenopause love lounge where it
literally felt like razorblades.
And after so many years of beingin a marriage where intimacy was
(15:32):
so challenged and I wasn'tgetting my needs met, and I had
to really learn how to take careof myself and be able to have
good communication and setboundaries, which never worked
in my my marriage.
And and being able to reallytake care of myself, to suddenly
be dating and having this issue,it really dropped me into um a
(15:53):
very scary place because Isuddenly went back into and
who's gonna want me?
Can I even have pleasureanymore?
Um all the stuff, you know.
Uh, and thankfully, because ofthe tools that I have been, what
is it, honing in on for theseyears, right?
And what I teach, I reallyembrace this moment as a okay,
(16:17):
how do I have uh a bettercommunication with people to
say, hey, there's nothing wrongwith me.
I need to to have some help hereand to actually dialogue about
it differently.
So it actually empowered me.
It actually brought me closer touh taking better, deeper care
for myself and and also reachingout to professionals to find out
(16:39):
what I can do differently.
So yeah, it I felt betrayed bymy pussy, and it was so sad.
It was I always loved sex, and Inever got to have the deep
pleasure I wanted with myhusband, and here I am going, oh
my God, and now I'm broken.
But the good news is I'm notbroken and I'm totally fine now.
So having great sex is hard.
SPEAKER_07 (17:01):
Yeah, and having great sex, absolutely great
juicy sex, yeah.
The having great sex part two, Ithink that nobody's gonna want
me.
Like, I don't hear enough ofthis conversation, and maybe
it's because I'm still on theyounger side of perimenopause,
but women talking about beingdivorced and dating and dealing
with menopause and not feelingthat sort of attractiveness that
(17:22):
we associate with youth and notknowing how to own our sexiness
and our attractiveness and ourpleasure in this season of life.
I think men expecting women tolook young and all of that, I
think women get reallyoverwhelmed by that.
So thank you so much forcalling.
Thank you.
Karen Via.
SPEAKER_05 (17:39):
Hello.
SPEAKER_02 (17:41):
All episode on itself.
SPEAKER_06 (17:45):
We need an episode for her pussy, yeah.
SPEAKER_07 (17:47):
Karen, welcome to Dear Divorce Diary.
We love the show Welegant WomanRedefining Midlife that you
host.
You are one of our wellnessrealists, and you help women
learn that hormones, sleep, andsanity can coexist.
Yes, they can.
SPEAKER_01 (18:04):
Tell us about your oh shit moment.
So I'll I'll before I even tellyou that moment, what I will
say, because I know youraudience is an audience of
divorced women, and I know thatthey will get this.
I found that even when you arethe one ending the marriage,
divorce is so traumatic.
It was traumatic for mephysically, it was traumatic for
(18:26):
me emotionally, it was traumaticfor me as a parent.
And in the year that followed mydivorce, I developed such acute
anxiety that I really didn'tknow what to do.
I saw therapists, I saw doctors,I I, you know, took all the
supplements, went toacupuncture, all the things.
And it was creeping into my lifein other ways.
(18:50):
You know, it wasn't just wakingup in the morning feeling
anxious, but it was um being outin public and and feeling a wave
of anxiety coming on, or beingwith other couples and feeling
like I didn't quite fit in.
People I used to hang out withsuddenly didn't feel
comfortable.
I felt like a fifth wheel.
So all of these things were justincreasing anxiety.
(19:12):
Now, the the the sidebar tothis, the side conversation is
that, you know, it what I wasattributing to my divorce
anxiety also, you know, as Ilater came to learn, had very
real physical reasons, right?
I was I I was in the middle ofperimenopause as well.
And the oh shit moment was whenI I was sharing earlier that I
(19:37):
was in a supermarket foodshopping in the middle of the
day, feeling fine when I walkedin and just suddenly had this
panic attack coming on, and Ididn't know what to do, and I
left the wagon and I ran out tomy car and I ran home.
And I I all of the anxiety wasbeing compounded by such an
intense loneliness because goingout no longer felt comfortable
(20:02):
for me.
And I just had lost the ability,probably, you know,
perimenopause does this to us,but I lost the ability to put on
a smile and fake it.
I I preferred to be by myself athome than going out and putting
on an act.
And I I was withdrawing more andmore, and it wasn't really until
I took matters into my own handsand I became certified in
(20:26):
women's wellness, and I I reallywent into this deep dive into
what's going on for mephysically, but also what's
going on for me emotionally.
And when I attacked it from bothof those angles, I was able to
make myself feel better and Iand I was able to get myself
back on track.
So I guess I guess the messagein it for your listeners is it
(20:47):
is quite possible.
You know, it it takes a lot ofwork, but it's possible to get
there for sure.
SPEAKER_07 (20:53):
Yeah.
That's amazing.
I'm gonna piggyback on somethingthat you said, which is that you
lost the ability to just sort ofput on a smile and go about it,
right?
And I think when we talk aboutthe intersection of
perimenopause and relationshiphealth or relationship breakdown
and divorce, that's a reallyinteresting and powerful
inquiry.
Is menopause the truth serumthat burns away everything else?
(21:21):
And so then we can't fake it inrelationships anymore in the way
that we used to.
Yeah, certainly pro delight.
And I know Ozzy and I were uhtalking recently about Dr.
Mindy Pell's and her researchand menopause and all of that.
And I heard her talk about howwhen we hit puberty, how our
brain map changes because thehormones flood in and then we
(21:43):
become women who adapt inrelationship.
And when menopause comes andthose hormones flood out, all of
a sudden we're no longermotivated to adapt in
relationship in the way that thehormones facilitate it.
And so if that relationshipisn't adapting with us, it's
like can it withstand the tollof perimenopause and menopause?
(22:04):
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (22:05):
Fascinating.
So good so real.
Wow.
SPEAKER_07 (22:08):
Friends, let's talk about some of the data that just
sort of grounds everything thaty'all have just shared, right?
So here's some stats.
Jump in wherever.
Women are twice as likely toinitiate divorce after 40.
So, like at that intersection ofperimenopause.
Do you see that in your ownmarriages, in your friends, in
your yeah, what you know?
(22:30):
Yes, that was kids are me.
SPEAKER_04 (22:32):
You can stop saying I'm staying for the kids.
First of all, second of all, youno longer have the buffer.
SPEAKER_03 (22:44):
It's a wake up call.
Menopause is a wake-up call, andit's a it's a time for us to
like put a stake in the groundand say, It's my turn.
Is this working for me?
And if it's not, I'm out ofhere.
You know, so yeah, I I reallythink we give ourselves
permission to really step intonew chapters when this time
happens for us.
SPEAKER_05 (23:02):
Yeah.
That was exactly what I did atthe at the time.
My ex-husband hadn't beenworking for a while.
So I was paying all of the billsall of the time.
Everything was on me.
He was on tour with my son forKids Bop.
I was not on, I was just not inlove with him anymore.
And I had that oh shit moment oflike, okay, Andre Shouldter, get
(23:22):
off the pot, really.
Like you are now 40, you're inyour early 40s, and you're not
getting any younger.
Your body is going through allthese changes.
Like, let's go now, because Idon't want to waste another 10
years or whatever in arelationship that no longer
serves me.
And I just felt like there wassomething more for him and I out
there separately.
SPEAKER_07 (23:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wow.
So this is not going to be ashocker, but 68% of women report
that midlife hormonal shiftsintensified their marital
dissatisfaction.
So it's sort of all pointingright to this idea that when a
decline in hormones likeoxytocin, serotonin, you name
it, right, those are thechemicals that buffer that you
(24:04):
mentioned.
There's no buffer left.
Yeah.
So it's like, oh crap.
So it's really interesting toconsider how many divorces are
actually hormone divorces indisguise.
What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_01 (24:17):
I think, I think it requires a great deal of energy
to make something okay, to tryto fit a a square peg into a
round hole, as they say.
Like it requires a lot of energywhen you're in a relationship
and it's not really supportiveto you.
And it's it's you know, drainingyou, and it's requiring a lot of
(24:39):
repair, and it's requiring a lotof you know suppression, and
that that's exhausting.
And I think that, you know, themenopause transition, our bodies
have to allocate our energy towhat's happening physically.
We no longer have the energyreserves to be able to maintain
relationships that are notsolid, that are not healthy.
(25:00):
And so I think whether womenrealize that on a conscious
level or not, part of what'shappening is that we just can no
longer forge ahead.
We can do that when we're young,but when we get to this stage,
it drains us, it exhausts us ina way that we just can't ignore
it anymore.
unknown (25:18):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (25:18):
Well said.
SPEAKER_04 (25:22):
We want to talk about being with the same guy
for 30 years.
And I just want to say thefoundation of our relationship
was in self-help andtransformation.
I mean, we fell in love becauseof Head Hart and Who Ha, right?
We were a practical match, wecared about each other, and we
were attracted to each other.
But we started doing personalgrowth when we were in our 20s
(25:46):
together.
And I'm saying it because it'swhy we can weather these storms.
Because we said in sickness andhealth, and he's had sickness
and health, and I've hadsickness and health, and he's
had changes, and I've hadchanges, and we've weathered it
because of what we were groundedin.
And that's the opportunity ofthe second time around after
divorce.
And because you got married whenyou were in your 20s or your
(26:06):
30s, and there was no self-helpback then, or maybe you didn't
have it, or you didn't knowabout it prioritizing it or
whatever.
And he didn't, and then you wereraising kids and having work,
and and now you're in your 40sand 50s, and it's like, oh, I
really can try.
And the men are divorced too,and they're seeking help too,
and getting better too.
So now there's this whole newgreat opportunity to actually
(26:28):
start your next loverelationship.
This is my specialty in my work,from that perspective, you know,
from the grounding of personalgrowth, which is what you need,
the communication tools, thetruth telling.
That's what you need for the allthe uh predictable fluctuations
that will be happening for therest of your life as you age,
(26:49):
and he'll be having them too.
So that's my plug for hope.
SPEAKER_07 (26:55):
Well said, and I think Juni would would second
that in her currentrelationship.
I would certainly third that inmy marriage.
Like, yeah, without these toolsand the willingness, yeah.
Karen, yeah, you just wentthrough a big thing where you
were speaking your truth and itwent over so well because you're
in a relationship where there'san investment in, yeah, problem
solving and collaboration andwell said.
SPEAKER_03 (27:18):
And an investment in the relationship to take it to
that higher level and not justdo what we've always done.
So, yeah, like again, anotherplus one to to Lori, because
when we have done the inner workand we have the tools, it it
there's less drama.
There's just less, it's thechallenges are there, but it
it's it's not these big tidalwaves.
(27:40):
It's it's more like choppywaters, and you know how to
navigate it in a different waywith love in the container with
the tools, with the paddle.
Because I didn't have a paddlein my 20-year marriage, and it
was painful.
SPEAKER_07 (27:53):
And this idea of mutual support, right?
When two people arecontributing, everything is
easier.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (27:59):
Yeah.
Cause I'll speak for the singlesand say that, you know, I've
been single and and and some ofthe things that you guys were
saying in terms of, well, firstof all, I don't have the extra
support.
I mean, I do through friends,but I don't have a partner to to
sort of lean on, right?
And also I don't have thetolerance to for the dating
world or the or the or just thenuance of dating.
The focus is on me, the focusisn't on what I'm going through,
(28:23):
and and and uh so I've just putdating on hold.
I just chose me and I I said,you know, for now until I sort
of come back into my body, Icome back into a place of of
regularity and and a place whereI feel that I'm sexy and that
I'm feeling good in my body, Ithink I would step into into
dating again with but I I I tooka break.
SPEAKER_01 (28:47):
I love that you said that, Ozzy, because I think I
think it's so important,especially in this midlife stage
where we are dealing with somuch physically, to really feel
really good ourselves beforejumping back into dating.
You know, I I for me I it tookme over a year of just really
(29:07):
taking great care of myselfbecause I knew that until I did
that, I wouldn't be healthy in arelationship.
You know, and I and so I Ireally applaud you doing that.
I know how you feel, and I know,you know, how depleted we can be
for a lot of reasons.
And you don't want to be datingwith that energy, you know.
(29:28):
I I nobody wants to be datingunless they feel really great
themselves.
SPEAKER_05 (29:33):
Yeah.
I'm waiting on that day forOzzy.
Her and I are going out on theprowl.
SPEAKER_02 (29:41):
Out on the prowl.
Love it.
Love it.
SPEAKER_07 (29:45):
Okay, loves.
Can we show our listeners onDreadoverse Diary this fun game
that we play at the end ofMenipause Love Lounge?
Yes.
Yes.
Okay, yes.
Amazing.
Does everybody have theirpaddle?
If you I don't know.
Okay.
You can if you're not, if you'relistening, you can't see our
paddle.
Right?
So for this game, we are playinghot flash or red flag.
(30:06):
So the idea is that I'm going toread a few scenarios that could
totally happen mid-divorce,mid-menopause, mid-meltdown, and
each of you are gonna vote.
Is it just a hormonal moment oris it a full-blown relationship
red flag?
So are we gonna do green forhormones and red for red flag?
Okay, because we have ourtwo-sided paddles, right?
(30:26):
And there's a green and there'sa red.
Okay, let's play.
You ready?
Yes.
Alright, first one.
He says you've been alreadymoody lately.
Is it is this a hot flash or arelationship red flag?
I think it's this.
SPEAKER_04 (30:47):
Hot flash?
We're letting him we're lettinghim make one comment.
One comment.
SPEAKER_00 (30:53):
Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_07 (30:54):
Maybe it is maybe we have been moody lately and he's
just making an observation.
All right, so depends on thegrease.
SPEAKER_04 (31:00):
Depends on the tone.
SPEAKER_07 (31:02):
Depends on the tone.
SPEAKER_03 (31:03):
That's moody.
SPEAKER_04 (31:04):
Is it compassionate or accusatory?
SPEAKER_03 (31:07):
But also, is she shoving emotions down where
she's starting to get moody?
And that might have nothing todo with hormones, just not
expressing herself.
So that's why I was kind of kindof doing both.
I love it.
Flip-flop.
Yeah.
Okay, next one.
SPEAKER_07 (31:23):
You suddenly want to throw out everything you own and
start over.
Is this a midlife purge hotflash, or is this like an
existential red flag that isgreen?
SPEAKER_06 (31:34):
I love a good purge.
unknown (31:35):
Okay.
SPEAKER_01 (31:41):
That's when you know it's a red flag when you're
about to cut the bangs.
Baby bangs.
SPEAKER_02 (31:46):
I met bangs.
Those moments a few weeks ago.
What the heck?
But you didn't do it.
I didn't do it.
Yes, I'm post-menopausal.
Yes.
Thank God.
SPEAKER_05 (31:56):
It's a good two-year mistake on that one.
SPEAKER_07 (32:00):
Okay, awesome.
Ready for the next one?
Yes.
This is this one is in the zone,the solidly in the divorce zone,
right?
Regarding the ex.
He texts.
Hope you're doing okay.
Right after posting a vacationpick with someone new.
Oh.
(32:21):
Oh.
Red flag or hot?
SPEAKER_01 (32:24):
Oh, we posted the photo or he posted the photo.
He posted it.
He posted the photo.
He posted it and then checked inwith you.
SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (32:32):
I wish this was a different finger for that.
Yeah, right.
It's more like that.
SPEAKER_07 (32:39):
Or like we did an entire episode on this.
It's just classic avoid anattachment style man move.
Like, yeah.
Yeah.
Validation, validation of yourdivorce.
SPEAKER_00 (32:51):
100%.
SPEAKER_07 (32:52):
Yes.
Validate that divorce.
Okay.
This next one is really, reallygood.
He blames your night sweats forwhy you don't touch him anymore.
Hot flash excuse or red flagdeflection.
SPEAKER_06 (33:05):
No blame, baby.
No blame.
Blame is a red flag.
SPEAKER_00 (33:09):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (33:09):
It's a bummer.
SPEAKER_04 (33:10):
He's not smarter.
Let's blame him for dignity, notvery too much.
Richard isn't him.
Chad.
I think Chad might be.
This might be Chad's level ofintelligence.
SPEAKER_02 (33:27):
Could be, could be, could be.
SPEAKER_07 (33:29):
Okay.
Okay, this is a good one.
You feel ragey when he breathestoo loud.
Is it menopausal?
SPEAKER_02 (33:37):
Or is it Zonin and Lori?
Zone in on Laurie.
SPEAKER_03 (33:41):
Going here.
I'm going here.
Relationship red flag?
Yeah, because what again, I Ilived it.
I lived it for so many yearswhere I just kept pushing down
my feelings and I just theresentment built and built, and
then it was just like, ah, hisbreath, you know, whatever it
was.
Right.
So yeah, maybe it's this, butcould be both.
Lori's got a list.
SPEAKER_07 (34:02):
Oh my god, they have to be alive.
SPEAKER_04 (34:03):
They do.
They do have to be alive.
Okay.
SPEAKER_07 (34:06):
Last one.
Last one.
You wake up at 3 a.m.
wanting both a divorce and acroissant.
Normal perimenopause craving orred flag that you need your
frickin' freedom.
Follow the blue.
SPEAKER_05 (34:22):
When you say it that way.
I know.
Middle.
Middle.
Yeah, yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_07 (34:27):
It's a flip.
SPEAKER_00 (34:28):
It's a flipper.
SPEAKER_07 (34:28):
It's a flipper.
It could be both.
It is both.
Perimenopause and uh a sign tohave a consultation with your
favorite family law attorney.
SPEAKER_01 (34:37):
But you know, we can't believe anything we think
in the middle of the night.
It's like all the darkest, mostawful thoughts in the middle of
the night.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (34:44):
You shouldn't believe anything.
And you have to in your mindmakes up anyway.
SPEAKER_04 (34:47):
You have to do the croissant test, which is have it
in the morning and see if youfeel better.
And then you'll know if acroissant is actually good for
you, and you'll also know if youstill want a divorce.
SPEAKER_05 (34:57):
You heard it here later.
Love croissant.
Is it a chocolate croissant?
I was just gonna ask it, Andrea.
SPEAKER_07 (35:04):
I might get up for that.
Yeah.
I called producer Joy thismorning and she was at Sam's
Club, and she's like, I'm atSam's Club, what do you need?
I was like, a box of croissants.
Croissant, we all right,darlings.
Thank you so much for joining ushere on Dear Divorce Diary.
Ladies, if you want more ofthese amazing women you heard
today, you can find MenopauseLove Lounge anywhere you get
(35:28):
podcasts.
And so just search it up.
Uh, we're on Instagram, we areon YouTube.
When you watch it live, it'sfunnier.
And ladies, thank you so muchfor being here today, for being
my friends, for helping me justenjoy midlife in a completely
different way.
I love you all so much.
SPEAKER_05 (35:47):
Thank you for having us.
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