November 11, 2025 • 39 mins
You swore you were past it.
You journaled, forgave, meditated, did the work.
But then a photo shows up, or someone says his name, and your chest tightens again. That’s resentment — the emotion that doesn’t move out just because you tell it to.
In this episode, we stop pretending it’s gone.
We talk about what keeps it alive, why it feeds on validation, and what’s hiding under all that anger.
Joy shares the text that broke her cool...Tiff opens up about being the one who always held it all together while he got to play the “fun dad.”...And I talk about the moment I realized my resentment wasn’t about him anymore (it was about the part of me that still didn’t feel safe alone).
We get honest about the apology that never helps, the waiting for closure that keeps you stuck, and the small ways resentment protects you from feeling the harder stuff underneath: grief, fear, loneliness, shame.
If you’ve ever thought, “Why can’t I just move on?” — this one’s for you.
✨ Join Premium where we dont just name the pain- we release it!
This Thursday episode, The 3 Questions You Can’t Avoid If You Actually Want to Let Go. Premium is where we stop talking about healing and start doing it — together.
Or take the free Divorce Recovery Nervous System Quiz to see what’s really driving your stuck spots.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MyCoachDawn
Instagram: (@dawnwiggins)
Instagram: (@coachtiffini)
On the Web: https://www.mycoachdawn.com
A podcast exploring the journey of life after divorce, delving into topics like divorce grief, loneliness, anxiety, manifesting, the impact of different attachment styles and codependency, setting healthy boundaries, energy healing with homeopathy, managing the nervous system during divorce depression, understanding the stages of divorce grief, and using the Law of Attraction and EMDR therapy in the process of building your confidence, forgiveness and letting go.
Post Divorce Road Map : 21 Days of Journaling
Promo Code: MAGICDROP
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:00):
Let's talk about the one post-divorce emotion that
refuses to leave quietly.
You think you've processed it,forgiven, working on moving on,
and then someone mentions hisname or you see him smiling in
some BS photo, and suddenly yourchest tightens, your jaw locks,
and your brain is on fire.
(00:22):
That is resentment.
And today we're not pretendingit's gone.
We're getting real about why itsticks, how it sabotages your
recovery, and the reframe thatwill finally set you free.
Hi, love.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary,the podcast helping divorcees go
(00:45):
beyond talk therapy to processyour grief, find the healing you
crave, and build back yourconfidence.
I'm your host, Don Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer, and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
confidence after divorce.
(01:10):
In today's episode, the three ofus are gonna share the moments
that we could not let go, nomatter how much therapy,
tapping, or journaling we seemedto throw at it.
For instance, the text messagethat sent Joy over the edge, the
silent rage that Tiff TIFFcarried through a healing phase,
and the moment that I realizedmy resentment wasn't about him
(01:31):
anymore.
This is gonna be juicy.
And then later in the episode,we are gonna talk about your
tendency towards self-sabotageand the pattern that keeps
resentment persisting.
So we're gonna unpack the numberone way women tend to block
their healing of resentment.
And then at the end of theepisode, we are going to dig
(01:55):
into the reframe that is gonnaget you back on track every time
resentment flares, where you'resort of ruminating on.
(02:18):
So let's dig in to thisaction-packed episode.
Good morning, ladies.
Good morning.
Okay, so my darling dears, wehave all done our share of
resentment.
Whether it was, you know, uhrelationship-oriented, marriage
or divorce-oriented, or youknow, dances we did with our
(02:41):
family members, or even eachother at times, you know, like
holy crap, resentment is such, Ithink, and anger in general,
right, is such a forward emotionin the world right now, right?
There's just so much anger, andI think there's so much
misconception about how tounhook it.
And um so let's talk about it,right?
(03:02):
Let's talk about our individualresentments um that we struggled
to let go of.
Who wants to start or do youwant me to start?
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm volunteers should be.
It's fine.
All of my girls are hunger gamegirls, and so we that's like the
go-to phrase in our families.
All volunteers should be.
I think resentment is probablythe least talked about in
because it's it's kind of it's alayered it's layout with anger
and shame.
My resentment sent from he, youknow, he like I needed him to do
(03:37):
something, and it was it wasn'tlike a a desire, it was like I
need you to pick up the girlsearly because I need to go do
this thing, and he couldn'tbecause he was had social plans.
And the resentment of himleaving me holding everything,
like I was the stay-at-home mom,and now I am single with three
(04:00):
small children, and you get togo live your best life.
But then there was shame layeredwith that because I was angry,
but I was also shameful, like Ishould be able to hold like I am
the mom.
I have lived my identity as theone that kept it all together,
and now I'm and now I'm not ableto keep it all together because
there's only one of me and I hada person, and no matter what of
(04:23):
a shit he was at times, he wasstill there.
So, like when the baby got afever at 2 a.m., I could go to
the store and get medicine if Iwas out.
And now I didn't have anybody,and so the resentment and the
layer it was so layered for meand all the complex and
complexities of not being rootedin myself.
(04:44):
Um, so I'm super excited aboutlater on in the episode when we
talk about how everything what Idid to shift everything, but to
me it was just because I wasfloundering in my identity
because I was rooted in beinghis wife and being a being their
mom, and now all of a sudden Idon't have anything, and I don't
(05:05):
even have the the little bit ofhelp he was.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
I think it's such a common place where women get
stuck in the overwhelm of havingto process everything, and we do
get very stuck in taking hisinventory, right?
And we are gonna unpack all ofthat downstream on this episode.
But I think so many women canrelate to what you just shared
(05:29):
about being in that overwhelm,feeling burdened, feeling
undersupported, and just beingangry and resentful and not
knowing how to navigate throughthat or shift it.
I think makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
When he sent me that text message saying that he
couldn't because he was goingout.
Wait, what?
SPEAKER_02 (05:50):
Yeah, and you know today he clearly wasn't living
his best life, right?
But that's how it felt at thetime.
And I think a lot of women feelthat too.
That you know, they see himmoving on or they see him
abdicating responsibility, andthey assume that he's quote
unquote happy or he doesn't missyou, or I don't know, whatever,
but like none of that isactually true.
It's all just ego defense, butyeah, that's how it looks.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:11):
So I to be able to really move on and let go of my
ex, I jumped very quickly into anew relationship, read massive
attachment style issues.
And um I could have this verysort of cutting way of
describing his behavior and thethings that led to our divorce.
(06:35):
But when I got in touch with howI couldn't cope as a single
person, not coupled in some way,it became very clear to me that
this was a me problem because Iwas solving my resentment with
him by just completely moving onand attaching to somebody new
(06:59):
and in like a not a healthyperson, not a healthy
circumstance, not a healthyanything, right?
And so I started connecting thedots that this was attachment
style stuff, and it had more todo with early childhood than it
had to do with him.
And did he do plenty of thingsthat were worthy of anger or
resentment?
Absolutely.
(07:20):
But because I could start to seehow unhealthy my choices were,
it was like the opening for meto say, like, oh crap, I think
there's so much more to thisthan the grudge that I want to
hold.
I wouldn't even call it agrudge, right?
But like the, you know that toneof voice women can get like,
well, let me tell you what hedid.
(07:41):
Like, let me tell, like, wouldyou believe like that?
It's just like a tone, right?
Like, I don't know, is it likeholier than thou or it's like a
sense of entitlement, I feellike something like that, right?
And I could tell the story inthe way that painted him as such
a villain, but here I amactually I know crying on the
(08:01):
floor so much, feeling suchweight of loneliness or
insecurity, right?
And not being able to toleratenot having a person or a man.
unknown (08:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Like, wow, that's like two very different
presentations.
Like I would show one thing tothe world, and then there would
be this other thing, like thatwas really going on behind the
scenes.
And so that really started toget super clear.
Like, oh, this resentment is isnot, it's like um smoke and
mirrors.
Is that yeah?
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah.
So for me, it was so weird how,and now that I'm I'm actually
like processing this live in mymind, and I'm like, wow, we were
him and I were very similar inthe way that we were dealing
with things.
So, you know, post-divorce, oncehe got back from deployment, I
remember once I made thedecision to leave, I think he
still had like six or seven moremonths to go on deployment.
(08:49):
So him and his buddies decidedthat they were all gonna order
Ducati motorcycles, um, whichare the crazy ass crotch rockets
from Italy, right?
So, like they all ordered thesecrotch rockets.
So when he got back, he wasseeking a very like
adrenaline-fueled type of alifestyle.
Him and his buddies would videorecord themselves doing wheelies
and like all kinds of likestupid shit, like whatever.
(09:12):
Um but I remember getting aphone call at two in the morning
from his roommate saying, Hey,um, he is in the hospital, it's
not great.
He was in a wreck, somebody ranover him when he was in the road
after he fell off the bike,right?
So, like there was so muchresentment in that moment
because I kept feeling like overand over and over, I kept having
(09:33):
to clean up his mess, evenpost-divorce.
And like, even you know, when Iwould exchange our daughter,
like there would be random girlslike every time, because we
would be at a meet point and Iwould get out of the car, and
I'm like, oh, who's this?
Who's this?
Who's this?
And so there were all of thesewomen that were being brought
around my daughter as well.
And then there's the resentmentof him being the fun dad, like
(09:55):
just being able to swoop intotown, spend a bunch of money,
and leave.
And then I was the one who wasthe disciplinarian, who was
making her do her homework, whowas setting down rules and
guidelines, and like it, it feltlike I was just the stick in the
mud all the time.
And that my daughter just saw meas like this blah person when
like dad was like the shiningstar that would come in and just
(10:16):
like rock her world.
But now that I'm like thinkingabout it when you're telling me
this and all the decisions Imade, the first person that I
dated post-separation, he had areputation in Myrtle.
He was very well known.
And he was in sales and part ofthe timeshare guys that like sit
(10:36):
down on the strip and like theytry to hustle these people in to
like wheel and deal and get youto buy a timeshare.
So they would travel all overthe US based on the season it
was, and he just happened to bein Myrtle, and I met him.
And when I tell you that thisguy where they had them living
was in a storage unit that hadbeen converted into like an
(10:59):
apartment.
So at one point I'm sittingthere and I'm in a fucking
storage unit in a mattress onthe floor, surrounded by a bunch
of like 20 somethings that Ihave nothing in common with.
And it's like this party partylifestyle.
And I'm like, what the hell am Idoing?
Like it was such a toxicrelationship with him.
(11:20):
We fought all the time.
He was very jealous.
He ended up stalking me formonths after we broke up.
And it was crazy.
And I'm sitting there and I'mthinking, What am I doing?
Anything to escape feeling.
Yeah.
And then I was resentful, yeah,like about all of that.
When really it was me.
It was me and my own issues, youknow.
But that's the first time I'vethought that him and I were
(11:40):
actually dealing with it in thevery same way, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
Yeah, escaping from the underlying pain or the
underlying insecurity.
Or yeah, Joy, I've heard youtalk a good bit about being
addicted to drama and you knowwhat's the difference between
drama and adrenaline, right?
It's all in an effort to notfeel the vulnerable mushy
feelings underneath there.
Yeah.
I think that's a beautiful,beautiful awareness.
(12:05):
So let's talk a little bit moreabout all the ways that women
block healing their resentment.
We just sort of alluded to someof it, right?
Like the things we do to escapewhat we don't freaking want to
feel.
Um, but I think as women, we,and I see this more and more in
popular culture, we really saywe're doing the work, we're um,
(12:27):
you know, digging in, we'regoing to therapy, we're talking
about the things, we'rejournaling, we're doing
whatever, we're doing rituals.
We tend to tell ourselves weshould be over it, but we're
really waiting for them to ownhow they hurt us.
And and the them could be somany thems, right?
It could be him, it could be umfamily members, it could be uh
friends that rejected us duringthe divorce process, right?
(12:49):
We really want them to see howmuch they hurt us.
And so we sort of get stuck onneeding to justify or defend our
pain until someone elsevalidates it.
And so we, on the one hand, aredoing all of these rituals in
this healing work, but then onthe other hand, are sort of
(13:11):
avoiding actually looking underthe rug for why um we need we
need other people to validateour pain and we're struggling to
validate our own pain.
So we do this self-sabotage,right?
Because we don't want to feelwhat's under there.
(13:34):
So, what have you noticed eitherwith yourselves or with the
women that we work with, thatthis really hyper focus on
resentment and on what he'sdoing and what he's not doing,
right?
That it's protecting something,it's protecting us from having
to take the next step in ourhealing journey, which is really
around vulnerability.
SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
For me, him not being able to admit, apologize,
that was huge for me.
That was huge.
It was like the apology that wasnever gonna come.
There was no accountability,there was no responsibility for
his part in anything.
And that's to me where my angerwould fuel and my resentment
would go because I'm like, I didnot just imagine all of this
(14:11):
shit that we have been throughin X amount of years.
And so what where I my heartgoes out to women that we work
with is when they're waiting onthe apology and I challenge them
and ask them, but if he told youhe was sorry, would it matter?
Would it really, really matter?
Because you know what?
Years down the road, ladies, Igot that apology and it did
nothing for me.
(14:33):
Nothing.
There was a two-second dopaminehit that said, well, there it
is, there's a validation.
But guess what?
On the other two seconds of thatwas, well, guess what?
It doesn't change anything.
And here's the key.
He was sorry, but his behaviornever changed.
I always felt like I had to behis protector over the years and
care for him and jump in to savethe day.
(14:55):
That never changed ever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
I think for me, I went from um, I actually fell
into a different hole.
Like I I went from theresentment and um the anger to
the victim, and this is whathappened.
And so like my identity actuallypivoted to the victim, and I
wrote that for a while becauseit was I'm too wounded, like I'm
(15:18):
too wounded, I'm too wounded.
Um look look at everything I'vedone for you, and this is how
you repay me, and I gave you mybest years, and all of these all
these different patterns startedto shift to a different season
or you know, time and so like adifferent brand of resentment or
a different brand ofself-sabotage.
(15:41):
Uh-huh.
And so I went I had all thesepeople that I would go and I
went under the guise of venting,and I went under the guise of
community.
And so I would just unload and Iwould just go to these different
people and unload all thesescenes.
And one of my who I um looked atme and lovingly said that like
your story will be redeemedregardless of the outcome of
(16:04):
your marriage.
And when she said that to me, itwas like this light bulb that
hit like, oh, I I am I am themain character in the story, and
it was like it was me, it was myresponsibility.
It was like this was such alight bulb moment, and that was
the the moment that I was ableto kind of see it as the big
(16:25):
picture, and like how and andI've said multiple times on the
podcast how someone asked mewhat I wanted my story to be,
like I was responsible to mychildren for my story, but it
wasn't until months later whenthis friend told me that it's
actually my story, right?
That it pivoted from now I'm notthe victim, I am not the one
(16:45):
that this has been done to, thisis an opportunity for me to be,
you know, like the phoenix fromthe ashes, you know, and the
whole and so it was so pivotalto realize that it was I'm the
main character of my own story.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
So what I'm hearing you say, I'm gonna introduce a
concept here called therepetition compulsion.
We all do this, right?
We all are behaving fromsomething called a repetition
compulsion.
And I hear that in that momentyou started to see, like, oh, I
don't have to keep repeatingthis compulsive behavior.
So, and by that I mean we allhave this unconscious tendency
(17:23):
to repeat past traumatic eventsor behaviors in relationships,
and it's an attempt to likesubconsciously feel like we can
master or gain control over theoriginal experience.
So, for any of us who have thisrelationship dysfunction and
things that broke down, right,it's because it began in our
(17:44):
childhoods where somewhere wefeel like our relationship with
our primary caregivers brokedown in some way.
And so we pick partners thatsubconsciously cause us to
repeat those same patterns.
And it's like, if I can get thisperson to say I'm sorry, it will
heal the original wound wherethe person never said I'm sorry.
Or if I can get this person totake responsibility for their
behavior, it heals the originalwound where my caregivers
(18:05):
weren't being responsible fortheir behavior.
So what I hear you saying isthat in that moment, you were
like, oh, I can let go of tryingto fix or solve or change him.
I can look at how I can solve myown stories.
Right.
Story arc, right?
Like plot twist.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
It was like looking in the mirror and asking, like,
am I sending this text out ofneeding the drama, needing the
validation, needing like, is itwhat's my motivation in talking
to this person and telling thestory?
Or what is my motivation inhandling the situation like this
(18:43):
instead of in a in a how a moreum rooted, grounded way, right?
Like how am I affecting thesituation versus like I I I've
mentioned several times, I wasaddicted to the drama.
You actually mentioned it just aminute ago, but like I was
addicted to the drama.
I was I was getting hits off ofbeing the victim, I was getting
(19:03):
hits off of the attention thatmy story was bringing me.
And it wasn't until I kind of Ikind of saw it and once you see
it, you can't unsee it.
So then everything gets throughthe lens of XYZ, right?
And so being able to see my partin this story and what I was in
(19:24):
control of.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Um so in my experience, that what you just
said, like once you see it, youcan't unsee it, that resonates
with me.
Like, once I could see that Iwas doing repetition compulsion,
and once I could see that myresentments were actually very,
very layered and ultimately wererooted in early childhood
experiences with my parents, andI could connect all those dots,
(19:48):
I could see it, but I stillcouldn't shift it.
And I wonder how many of ourlisteners relate to that.
Like, okay, I can see that I'mdoing this thing, but I still
feel helpless or powerless overputting down the ruminating
thoughts or like interruptingthe pattern of hyperfixating on
(20:09):
what he, she, or they are doing.
And I still couldn't figure outhow to stop that.
And I think that's a place wheremany, many women get stuck in
their healing journey.
You've read, you've listened toall the podcasts, you've read
all the self-help books, you'vegone to the talk therapy,
you've, you know, meditated ortapped or whatever, but like
(20:29):
something still gets hooked orstuck right there in resentment,
and it's like it won't unhook.
Let's talk about the reframethat needs to happen, what women
need to be able to tap into inorder to actually finally shift
it, right?
So underneath anger is our waymore mushy, vulnerable, scary,
(20:49):
scary feelings, right?
Anger is a feeling that feelssafe for us because it feels
like it's like there's somethere there.
Like anger has weapons.
You know what I mean?
Like anger has weapons, right?
We've talked about that.
Like we could we can tell we canshame him and get validation and
we can perceive like we'redefending ourselves or hurting
them, or right, like how many ofus have had revenge fantasies?
(21:12):
I know many of our listenershave revenge fantasies, but it's
like that's all that's all aprotection over what we don't
want to feel, right?
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe things that we don't
freaking want to feel, we don'twant to face, we don't want to
tap into, we don't want to getin touch with because it feels
too scary, too overwhelming, toovulnerable, and I might
completely fall apart.
Because this is really the keyto release, right?
(21:34):
Is getting what is under theanger.
And so for me, that was reallylike I did not have a consistent
sense of self.
I did not have a grounded senseof worth.
My worth was truly rooted in youapproving of me, you wanting me,
or you needing me, maybe isprobably a healthier actually,
(21:55):
like, or um my performanceeither at work or you know, as a
housekeeper, like a homemaker,you know, it was very, very,
very performance-driven.
And so underneath all that angerwas truly this like, I don't
know how to feel okay unlessyou're okay with me.
And that was way scarier.
(22:17):
When I tapped into any of that,that felt like panic, that felt
like insecurity, it felt like abottomless pit.
It felt like I was gonna falland no net was gonna catch me.
I can't even find all thelanguage for the amount of panic
or insecurity that feltunderneath my anger.
And it took me a lot offoundational work to really feel
safe enough to even touch someof that stuff underneath.
(22:40):
And even when I went to EMDRyears and years and years later,
I still often couldn't accessit, right?
In IFS theory, I had exiles thatdidn't feel safe accessing any
of those scarier feelings.
This is where homeopathy was so,so, so key in being able to
unlock a lot of that buriedtreasure, if you will, right?
But for the women who feel likethey can see the patterns but
(23:01):
they still feel helpless toshift the patterns.
Tiffany, talk a little bit aboutwhat you notice with women in
IFS, their exiles, and thedifficulty accessing those parts
that really need to express alot of pain.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
Mm-hmm.
So I think that over time, youknow, you build up these
protector parts, whether you'rea caregiver or people pleaser.
Um, and I feel like as youcontinuously use those parts to
protect yourself, they're angrywith you.
They are worn out, they areexhausted, they don't want to do
that job anymore.
And so a lot of times if theyhave seen over and over that you
(23:36):
have put yourself in dangeroussituations where they keep
having to step in, they're notgoing to show you the exiled
part.
They do not feel safe enoughwith you, that you have enough
self-energy to be able touncover what's really underneath
all of that pain.
So it takes a while sometimes toaccess, sometimes it takes
multiple sessions to even beable to touch the exile.
Some people have done enoughwork to where it's right there
(23:58):
under the surface.
What I see a lot about managerparts is a lot of them are
they're very, very ready to letgo, but they're not going to
step back until they can trustthat you stop putting yourself
in continuous situations to putyourself in danger, whether
that's choosing the same typesof men, friends, you know,
continuing to let family crossyour boundaries, like whatever
it is.
(24:19):
So that's where I start to seewhere you know people struggle
with getting underneath of it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:25):
What would you like to see women start asking
themselves when they catchthemselves doing the ruminating
thing about him or them, whoeverthe they is, right?
Because there are so many peopleto feel resentment towards
during divorce, right?
Like your in-laws or your ownfamily or the people who like so
many, there's just so manylosses, right?
And so many layers of loss.
Sometimes attorneys, right?
Like feeling like your attorneydoesn't have your back.
(24:47):
Like there's just so many waysin which we can focus on
resentment.
And I think there's so manythings going on in the world
that sometimes we even hook ourresentment on to like other
groups in the world that we wantto be angry with or focus on,
right?
So, what would you like to seewomen start checking in with
themselves around?
Or what would you like to seethem reframing or asking
themselves so they can get backinto self-energy?
(25:08):
What are some things that youhave found helpful to like check
your own ruminating thoughts orto get back on track in your own
productive, healing feelingjourney?
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
A lot of times what I ask women, and it's so funny
because all of my datingrelationships started out the
same.
It's like on date one, I wouldtrauma dump.
Um, and I would basically tellthem all of my scary shit.
And then it's like, wow, if theystay, cool, like here we go.
Um, and nine times out of ten,they didn't.
If they were secure attachers,they ran from the hills for me.
Like I was not a good healthypartner at all.
(25:42):
Um, and and normal, quoteunquote, normal men could see
that right.
So for me, I think it was aboutrealizing that I was in this
cycle.
And so sometimes I would ask,like, why am I sharing?
And I realized that when I cameinto this relationship with my
current partner and I wassharing with him traumatic
things that I had experienced, Iwas sharing from a place of self
(26:03):
and simply sharing for context,not for validation or for
approval.
And that was such a huge shiftfor me.
Also, I was no longer scared ofthe outcome because myself said,
this is a safe person who willlove me regardless of what I'm
sharing.
So I want to share in thiscontext just to be seen and
understood, not to be approvedof or validated.
(26:26):
And that was a huge shift forme.
And I didn't feel the need toshare at all either.
I didn't feel this need to dothis big trauma dump.
And for me, I no longer feltlike I had to protect or care
for, or it was almost like Ican't even explain it in dating,
but it was almost like I wantedto be the woman they'd never
(26:47):
experienced before.
Like I wanted to be the reasonthey lived, breathed, like I
wanted them to look at me asthis elite repetition propulsion
band.
You know, like if they ever lostme, they would never be able to
live.
And so what ended up happeningwas in my first marriage, when I
attracted someone like that, andthen you continue to have a
partner, ex-partner that has thesuicidal tendencies and is
(27:10):
constantly reaching for you astheir protector and caregiver
throughout the years, I waslike, my God, what have I done?
You know, because it's like nowthat's where my resentment came
from is constantly feeling likepost-divorce, I had to keep
coming in and protecting andcaring and saving.
And only when I broke that cycleand figured out how to walk away
from that and that I was nolonger responsible for for his
(27:30):
wanting to live or him wantingto live a quality life or
whatever it was, right?
So I feel like once I let go ofneeding to be like the one and
only fixer and like this elusivething that, like, oh my God,
like if something happened tome, I would never be able to
live without her.
Like I didn't need to hear thosethings anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (27:49):
But you had to get in touch with some big, deep,
scary, insecure feelings to beable to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Like if I didn't protect the people that I loved,
I would be alone.
I would end up gaining left.
And that stemmed back intochildhood.
And I always felt this need toprotect people closest to me,
particularly my mom.
She just was somebody that wouldlet people walk all over her.
(28:17):
She was very much a pleaser, shehad a quiet demeanor, and she's
changed drastically over theyears, which has allowed me to
relieve and step back.
But in the beginning, no.
Like I was always sticking upfor my mom.
SPEAKER_02 (28:29):
Fear fear of abandonment, fear of being lost.
Yeah, absolutely.
Fear of being alone.
I think that's at the core forso many of us, right?
Fear of being alone, unwanted.
That must have been at thedepths of um, but when you think
about it, like the the thedepths of the feelings that I
think women have to process inorder to release resentment,
(28:51):
which it just doesn't seem likeit goes together on the surface,
right?
Is like, I think they're veryyoung feelings.
And I think it's hard for womento realize that or pinpoint it.
Like the the big scary that Ihave had to process over the
years has to be the type of bigscary that like three-year-olds
and six-year-olds feel, like bigscary, right?
(29:11):
Because it's like I'm agrown-ass woman walking around
in this world.
Like my feet touch the pedals, Idrive a car, I own a house, I
like have a child, right?
And the big scary that I haveprocessed over the years, I
think comes from a very, very,very young place.
And I wish women would put thedots together that their
resentment is actually coveringthat kind of stuff underneath.
(29:34):
What stands out to you, Joy,about either your own journey or
the patterns you see women do?
How would you like to, whatwould you, how do you wish they
would reframe there when theyget ruminating on resentment?
How do you wish they wouldreframe it?
SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
The moment when I've discovered I was the main
character, right?
It was a lot of asking myselfwhy.
Tiffany just did a beautifuljob.
Explaining like why am I sendingthis text?
Why am I making this decision?
Why am I and it all for me camedown to that little girl wanting
(30:10):
and needing to be chosen andprotected?
And the little girl that wasnever prioritized was never
chosen is the easiest way.
She was never chosen.
And so I sought part partnersthat didn't choose me that gave
me just enough to be like, oh, Ican subconsciously, like he
(30:32):
he'll he I can get convince himto choose me, right?
Like I can do all these thingsright, and then he's gonna
choose me one day.
And that doesn't actually thatdidn't actually work, right?
So um jokes on me, but it wasdoing the work of choosing
myself.
You know, like when I wassingle, I didn't drink, I didn't
(30:54):
consume alcohol.
I didn't, I exercised every day.
I did so many thingsintentionally to choose me and
to process and to thematicallywork out.
I didn't use that term backthen, but like um I knew it was
important for me to discharge,right?
And so choosing me is whatpivoted my story and that I
(31:19):
created the safety that I inmyself that I needed that I was
looking for externally tovalidate me.
And so when when you startmaking those micro decisions of
eating something nutrient denseinstead of Burger King, you know
what I mean?
Like it was it's it to startshifting what you're attracting
(31:43):
and what what you allow to beconsumed by your energy, right?
So like does a marshal matter?
Like, I don't that that marshaldoesn't even register with me
anymore.
Thanks, peace out, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (31:57):
And it is a million micro decisions, and you know,
the way you tell it, it almostsounds like oh, and then there
was a day that she realized shewas the main character and a
switch flipped, and then shestopped being insecure.
But like, no, it's been layerafter layer after layer, year
after year after year, and it isit's like a crescendo over time,
right?
It's a million micro decisions,right?
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
And I I mean, like, I'm I'm multiple multiple years
out from my story, and yesterdaywas a pivotal day for me just
because I was like, oh, I'mgonna choose to be me regardless
of who's around me.
Like it's not, it's not a fuckyou, I don't care.
It's a I see you through a lensof if you're not able to come to
(32:38):
the table, that that's a on you,but also I it's almost like um
it's not a pity, but it's a Ipray for you one day for you to
be able to come to the table.
I pray for you to see thatthere's more than this situation
in which you have the the filterof your life going through.
(32:59):
You know what I mean?
Um because it I'm multiple yearsout and I'm still in progress
because it's a journey.
It's a journey, it's a journey.
SPEAKER_02 (33:10):
It's a journey.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I love actually that we'rerecording the day after you had
that, right?
You um just a little context,like Joy went somewhere with her
husband that in previous yearsyou hadn't been included in
because of all these reasons,like all these things, right?
So here's the first year you getincluded in a thing, but you
were able to hold walls of self.
(33:30):
You were able to show up in withconfidence, like grounded
confidence, rather than I feelbetter than or I feel less than,
and you were scanning the room,and maybe some of the people in
the room were feeling betterthan or less than.
And you know, there's backstorythere we don't need to unpack,
but like you were able to holdwalls of self because of all
these micro decisions you'vemade year after year after year
(33:50):
after year.
Yeah.
And it's and super cool.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
I I will say this give yourself grace because if
you don't have a perfect day andyou choose to drink maybe two
glasses of wine, or you knowwhat I mean?
Like when you when you choosesomething that's not necessarily
serving, not self, just makesure that you give yourself
grace.
Okay, like great.
I am gonna own that I just didthat.
That wasn't a self-decision, buttomorrow I'm gonna strive to do
(34:15):
better.
Like it, you don't have to haveperfection to be able to come to
the table.
You have to be accountable ofthat.
You have to have accountabilityand consistency, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:26):
Like, yeah.
I think when when you um I'veheard Abraham Hicks describe
this, you know, in the law ofattraction, like, what is the
predominant vibration thatyou're offering?
So it's like if we choose gracenine times out of ten, that's
the predominant vibration isself-betrayal, right?
But if we're um putting our bestfoot forward and three times out
(34:50):
of ten, we have to giveourselves grace.
Ah, well, the predominantvibration I'm offering is
consistency, self-choosing self,right?
Um not self-abandonment.
SPEAKER_00 (35:00):
What were you gonna add, Tiffany?
I was just gonna say, like,that's what I tell women that we
work with that you know, it'snot about perfection, it's about
progress.
And not punishing yourself for,you know, choosing it and
understanding that, you know, onthe other side of this, there's
still choices that Don, Joy, andI make every day that affects
what we're doing and ourhealing.
(35:20):
The difference is it's justhaving a very keen awareness
around this is what happenedtoday, this is why I chose to do
this today, um, and this is howI can be better tomorrow.
So I do, I understand the wholething with resentment, and it it
makes me, it makes me sad toencounter women who are holding
(35:42):
on for the I'm sorry is in theforgiveness when really the
person they need to forgivethemselves.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:48):
And so in the Thursday, yeah, in our Thursday
premium episode, we're gonnalook at the three journal
prompts all women need to beable to sit with and answer and
feel through in order toactually let go and move on.
And so I love that you broughtthat up.
That's not one of the journalprompts, like can I forgive
(36:08):
myself, right?
But it's journal promptadjacent.
And I can't wait for us tounpack those three questions
that if you are struggling withresentment and you can't sit
with and answer, fully answerthese three questions and
tolerate the feelings that gowith them, letting go and moving
on is just not on the menu foryou.
So I'm excited for us to recordthat episode.
(36:28):
Next.
All right, big announcement.
Uh, if you are not a premiumsubscriber, we are launching
premium workshops once a month.
There will be a workshop that isonly for premium subscribers.
So we just want you to getinvolved, right?
There is so much we can learn onthe podcast, but then we have to
(36:51):
also do.
And premium workshops andpremium episodes in general are
to help you take what we hearand what we learn about on the
podcast and put it intopractice.
So, strong recommendation tobecome a premium subscriber and
to jump into your healing at adifferent level.
Attend the workshop and um kickyour healing up to the next
(37:15):
level.
We love you so much.
Peace.
Let's talk about the one post-divorce emotion that
refuses to leave quietly.
You think you've processed it,forgiven, working on moving on,
and then someone mentions hisname or you see him smiling in
some BS photo, and suddenly yourchest tightens, your jaw locks,
and your brain is on fire.
(00:22):
That is resentment.
And today we're not pretendingit's gone.
We're getting real about why itsticks, how it sabotages your
recovery, and the reframe thatwill finally set you free.
Hi, love.
Welcome to Dear Divorce Diary,the podcast helping divorcees go
(00:45):
beyond talk therapy to processyour grief, find the healing you
crave, and build back yourconfidence.
I'm your host, Don Wiggins, atherapist, coach, integrative
healer, and divorcee.
Join me for a fresh approach tohealing grief and building your
confidence after divorce.
(01:10):
In today's episode, the three ofus are gonna share the moments
that we could not let go, nomatter how much therapy,
tapping, or journaling we seemedto throw at it.
For instance, the text messagethat sent Joy over the edge, the
silent rage that Tiff TIFFcarried through a healing phase,
and the moment that I realizedmy resentment wasn't about him
(01:31):
anymore.
This is gonna be juicy.
And then later in the episode,we are gonna talk about your
tendency towards self-sabotageand the pattern that keeps
resentment persisting.
So we're gonna unpack the numberone way women tend to block
their healing of resentment.
And then at the end of theepisode, we are going to dig
(01:55):
into the reframe that is gonnaget you back on track every time
resentment flares, where you'resort of ruminating on.
(02:18):
So let's dig in to thisaction-packed episode.
Good morning, ladies.
Good morning.
Okay, so my darling dears, wehave all done our share of
resentment.
Whether it was, you know, uhrelationship-oriented, marriage
or divorce-oriented, or youknow, dances we did with our
(02:41):
family members, or even eachother at times, you know, like
holy crap, resentment is such, Ithink, and anger in general,
right, is such a forward emotionin the world right now, right?
There's just so much anger, andI think there's so much
misconception about how tounhook it.
And um so let's talk about it,right?
(03:02):
Let's talk about our individualresentments um that we struggled
to let go of.
Who wants to start or do youwant me to start?
SPEAKER_01 (03:12):
I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm volunteers should be.
It's fine.
All of my girls are hunger gamegirls, and so we that's like the
go-to phrase in our families.
All volunteers should be.
I think resentment is probablythe least talked about in
because it's it's kind of it's alayered it's layout with anger
and shame.
My resentment sent from he, youknow, he like I needed him to do
(03:37):
something, and it was it wasn'tlike a a desire, it was like I
need you to pick up the girlsearly because I need to go do
this thing, and he couldn'tbecause he was had social plans.
And the resentment of himleaving me holding everything,
like I was the stay-at-home mom,and now I am single with three
(04:00):
small children, and you get togo live your best life.
But then there was shame layeredwith that because I was angry,
but I was also shameful, like Ishould be able to hold like I am
the mom.
I have lived my identity as theone that kept it all together,
and now I'm and now I'm not ableto keep it all together because
there's only one of me and I hada person, and no matter what of
(04:23):
a shit he was at times, he wasstill there.
So, like when the baby got afever at 2 a.m., I could go to
the store and get medicine if Iwas out.
And now I didn't have anybody,and so the resentment and the
layer it was so layered for meand all the complex and
complexities of not being rootedin myself.
(04:44):
Um, so I'm super excited aboutlater on in the episode when we
talk about how everything what Idid to shift everything, but to
me it was just because I wasfloundering in my identity
because I was rooted in beinghis wife and being a being their
mom, and now all of a sudden Idon't have anything, and I don't
(05:05):
even have the the little bit ofhelp he was.
SPEAKER_02 (05:08):
I think it's such a common place where women get
stuck in the overwhelm of havingto process everything, and we do
get very stuck in taking hisinventory, right?
And we are gonna unpack all ofthat downstream on this episode.
But I think so many women canrelate to what you just shared
(05:29):
about being in that overwhelm,feeling burdened, feeling
undersupported, and just beingangry and resentful and not
knowing how to navigate throughthat or shift it.
I think makes a lot of sense.
SPEAKER_01 (05:40):
When he sent me that text message saying that he
couldn't because he was goingout.
Wait, what?
SPEAKER_02 (05:50):
Yeah, and you know today he clearly wasn't living
his best life, right?
But that's how it felt at thetime.
And I think a lot of women feelthat too.
That you know, they see himmoving on or they see him
abdicating responsibility, andthey assume that he's quote
unquote happy or he doesn't missyou, or I don't know, whatever,
but like none of that isactually true.
It's all just ego defense, butyeah, that's how it looks.
SPEAKER_03 (06:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (06:11):
So I to be able to really move on and let go of my
ex, I jumped very quickly into anew relationship, read massive
attachment style issues.
And um I could have this verysort of cutting way of
describing his behavior and thethings that led to our divorce.
(06:35):
But when I got in touch with howI couldn't cope as a single
person, not coupled in some way,it became very clear to me that
this was a me problem because Iwas solving my resentment with
him by just completely moving onand attaching to somebody new
(06:59):
and in like a not a healthyperson, not a healthy
circumstance, not a healthyanything, right?
And so I started connecting thedots that this was attachment
style stuff, and it had more todo with early childhood than it
had to do with him.
And did he do plenty of thingsthat were worthy of anger or
resentment?
Absolutely.
(07:20):
But because I could start to seehow unhealthy my choices were,
it was like the opening for meto say, like, oh crap, I think
there's so much more to thisthan the grudge that I want to
hold.
I wouldn't even call it agrudge, right?
But like the, you know that toneof voice women can get like,
well, let me tell you what hedid.
(07:41):
Like, let me tell, like, wouldyou believe like that?
It's just like a tone, right?
Like, I don't know, is it likeholier than thou or it's like a
sense of entitlement, I feellike something like that, right?
And I could tell the story inthe way that painted him as such
a villain, but here I amactually I know crying on the
(08:01):
floor so much, feeling suchweight of loneliness or
insecurity, right?
And not being able to toleratenot having a person or a man.
unknown (08:10):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (08:10):
Like, wow, that's like two very different
presentations.
Like I would show one thing tothe world, and then there would
be this other thing, like thatwas really going on behind the
scenes.
And so that really started toget super clear.
Like, oh, this resentment is isnot, it's like um smoke and
mirrors.
Is that yeah?
SPEAKER_00 (08:29):
Yeah.
So for me, it was so weird how,and now that I'm I'm actually
like processing this live in mymind, and I'm like, wow, we were
him and I were very similar inthe way that we were dealing
with things.
So, you know, post-divorce, oncehe got back from deployment, I
remember once I made thedecision to leave, I think he
still had like six or seven moremonths to go on deployment.
(08:49):
So him and his buddies decidedthat they were all gonna order
Ducati motorcycles, um, whichare the crazy ass crotch rockets
from Italy, right?
So, like they all ordered thesecrotch rockets.
So when he got back, he wasseeking a very like
adrenaline-fueled type of alifestyle.
Him and his buddies would videorecord themselves doing wheelies
and like all kinds of likestupid shit, like whatever.
(09:12):
Um but I remember getting aphone call at two in the morning
from his roommate saying, Hey,um, he is in the hospital, it's
not great.
He was in a wreck, somebody ranover him when he was in the road
after he fell off the bike,right?
So, like there was so muchresentment in that moment
because I kept feeling like overand over and over, I kept having
(09:33):
to clean up his mess, evenpost-divorce.
And like, even you know, when Iwould exchange our daughter,
like there would be random girlslike every time, because we
would be at a meet point and Iwould get out of the car, and
I'm like, oh, who's this?
Who's this?
Who's this?
And so there were all of thesewomen that were being brought
around my daughter as well.
And then there's the resentmentof him being the fun dad, like
(09:55):
just being able to swoop intotown, spend a bunch of money,
and leave.
And then I was the one who wasthe disciplinarian, who was
making her do her homework, whowas setting down rules and
guidelines, and like it, it feltlike I was just the stick in the
mud all the time.
And that my daughter just saw meas like this blah person when
like dad was like the shiningstar that would come in and just
(10:16):
like rock her world.
But now that I'm like thinkingabout it when you're telling me
this and all the decisions Imade, the first person that I
dated post-separation, he had areputation in Myrtle.
He was very well known.
And he was in sales and part ofthe timeshare guys that like sit
(10:36):
down on the strip and like theytry to hustle these people in to
like wheel and deal and get youto buy a timeshare.
So they would travel all overthe US based on the season it
was, and he just happened to bein Myrtle, and I met him.
And when I tell you that thisguy where they had them living
was in a storage unit that hadbeen converted into like an
(10:59):
apartment.
So at one point I'm sittingthere and I'm in a fucking
storage unit in a mattress onthe floor, surrounded by a bunch
of like 20 somethings that Ihave nothing in common with.
And it's like this party partylifestyle.
And I'm like, what the hell am Idoing?
Like it was such a toxicrelationship with him.
(11:20):
We fought all the time.
He was very jealous.
He ended up stalking me formonths after we broke up.
And it was crazy.
And I'm sitting there and I'mthinking, What am I doing?
Anything to escape feeling.
Yeah.
And then I was resentful, yeah,like about all of that.
When really it was me.
It was me and my own issues, youknow.
But that's the first time I'vethought that him and I were
(11:40):
actually dealing with it in thevery same way, which is crazy.
SPEAKER_02 (11:44):
Yeah, escaping from the underlying pain or the
underlying insecurity.
Or yeah, Joy, I've heard youtalk a good bit about being
addicted to drama and you knowwhat's the difference between
drama and adrenaline, right?
It's all in an effort to notfeel the vulnerable mushy
feelings underneath there.
Yeah.
I think that's a beautiful,beautiful awareness.
(12:05):
So let's talk a little bit moreabout all the ways that women
block healing their resentment.
We just sort of alluded to someof it, right?
Like the things we do to escapewhat we don't freaking want to
feel.
Um, but I think as women, we,and I see this more and more in
popular culture, we really saywe're doing the work, we're um,
(12:27):
you know, digging in, we'regoing to therapy, we're talking
about the things, we'rejournaling, we're doing
whatever, we're doing rituals.
We tend to tell ourselves weshould be over it, but we're
really waiting for them to ownhow they hurt us.
And and the them could be somany thems, right?
It could be him, it could be umfamily members, it could be uh
friends that rejected us duringthe divorce process, right?
(12:49):
We really want them to see howmuch they hurt us.
And so we sort of get stuck onneeding to justify or defend our
pain until someone elsevalidates it.
And so we, on the one hand, aredoing all of these rituals in
this healing work, but then onthe other hand, are sort of
(13:11):
avoiding actually looking underthe rug for why um we need we
need other people to validateour pain and we're struggling to
validate our own pain.
So we do this self-sabotage,right?
Because we don't want to feelwhat's under there.
(13:34):
So, what have you noticed eitherwith yourselves or with the
women that we work with, thatthis really hyper focus on
resentment and on what he'sdoing and what he's not doing,
right?
That it's protecting something,it's protecting us from having
to take the next step in ourhealing journey, which is really
around vulnerability.
SPEAKER_00 (13:51):
For me, him not being able to admit, apologize,
that was huge for me.
That was huge.
It was like the apology that wasnever gonna come.
There was no accountability,there was no responsibility for
his part in anything.
And that's to me where my angerwould fuel and my resentment
would go because I'm like, I didnot just imagine all of this
(14:11):
shit that we have been throughin X amount of years.
And so what where I my heartgoes out to women that we work
with is when they're waiting onthe apology and I challenge them
and ask them, but if he told youhe was sorry, would it matter?
Would it really, really matter?
Because you know what?
Years down the road, ladies, Igot that apology and it did
nothing for me.
(14:33):
Nothing.
There was a two-second dopaminehit that said, well, there it
is, there's a validation.
But guess what?
On the other two seconds of thatwas, well, guess what?
It doesn't change anything.
And here's the key.
He was sorry, but his behaviornever changed.
I always felt like I had to behis protector over the years and
care for him and jump in to savethe day.
(14:55):
That never changed ever.
SPEAKER_01 (14:57):
I think for me, I went from um, I actually fell
into a different hole.
Like I I went from theresentment and um the anger to
the victim, and this is whathappened.
And so like my identity actuallypivoted to the victim, and I
wrote that for a while becauseit was I'm too wounded, like I'm
(15:18):
too wounded, I'm too wounded.
Um look look at everything I'vedone for you, and this is how
you repay me, and I gave you mybest years, and all of these all
these different patterns startedto shift to a different season
or you know, time and so like adifferent brand of resentment or
a different brand ofself-sabotage.
(15:41):
Uh-huh.
And so I went I had all thesepeople that I would go and I
went under the guise of venting,and I went under the guise of
community.
And so I would just unload and Iwould just go to these different
people and unload all thesescenes.
And one of my who I um looked atme and lovingly said that like
your story will be redeemedregardless of the outcome of
(16:04):
your marriage.
And when she said that to me, itwas like this light bulb that
hit like, oh, I I am I am themain character in the story, and
it was like it was me, it was myresponsibility.
It was like this was such alight bulb moment, and that was
the the moment that I was ableto kind of see it as the big
(16:25):
picture, and like how and andI've said multiple times on the
podcast how someone asked mewhat I wanted my story to be,
like I was responsible to mychildren for my story, but it
wasn't until months later whenthis friend told me that it's
actually my story, right?
That it pivoted from now I'm notthe victim, I am not the one
(16:45):
that this has been done to, thisis an opportunity for me to be,
you know, like the phoenix fromthe ashes, you know, and the
whole and so it was so pivotalto realize that it was I'm the
main character of my own story.
SPEAKER_02 (17:02):
So what I'm hearing you say, I'm gonna introduce a
concept here called therepetition compulsion.
We all do this, right?
We all are behaving fromsomething called a repetition
compulsion.
And I hear that in that momentyou started to see, like, oh, I
don't have to keep repeatingthis compulsive behavior.
So, and by that I mean we allhave this unconscious tendency
(17:23):
to repeat past traumatic eventsor behaviors in relationships,
and it's an attempt to likesubconsciously feel like we can
master or gain control over theoriginal experience.
So, for any of us who have thisrelationship dysfunction and
things that broke down, right,it's because it began in our
(17:44):
childhoods where somewhere wefeel like our relationship with
our primary caregivers brokedown in some way.
And so we pick partners thatsubconsciously cause us to
repeat those same patterns.
And it's like, if I can get thisperson to say I'm sorry, it will
heal the original wound wherethe person never said I'm sorry.
Or if I can get this person totake responsibility for their
behavior, it heals the originalwound where my caregivers
(18:05):
weren't being responsible fortheir behavior.
So what I hear you saying isthat in that moment, you were
like, oh, I can let go of tryingto fix or solve or change him.
I can look at how I can solve myown stories.
Right.
Story arc, right?
Like plot twist.
SPEAKER_01 (18:21):
It was like looking in the mirror and asking, like,
am I sending this text out ofneeding the drama, needing the
validation, needing like, is itwhat's my motivation in talking
to this person and telling thestory?
Or what is my motivation inhandling the situation like this
(18:43):
instead of in a in a how a moreum rooted, grounded way, right?
Like how am I affecting thesituation versus like I I I've
mentioned several times, I wasaddicted to the drama.
You actually mentioned it just aminute ago, but like I was
addicted to the drama.
I was I was getting hits off ofbeing the victim, I was getting
(19:03):
hits off of the attention thatmy story was bringing me.
And it wasn't until I kind of Ikind of saw it and once you see
it, you can't unsee it.
So then everything gets throughthe lens of XYZ, right?
And so being able to see my partin this story and what I was in
(19:24):
control of.
SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Um so in my experience, that what you just
said, like once you see it, youcan't unsee it, that resonates
with me.
Like, once I could see that Iwas doing repetition compulsion,
and once I could see that myresentments were actually very,
very layered and ultimately wererooted in early childhood
experiences with my parents, andI could connect all those dots,
(19:48):
I could see it, but I stillcouldn't shift it.
And I wonder how many of ourlisteners relate to that.
Like, okay, I can see that I'mdoing this thing, but I still
feel helpless or powerless overputting down the ruminating
thoughts or like interruptingthe pattern of hyperfixating on
(20:09):
what he, she, or they are doing.
And I still couldn't figure outhow to stop that.
And I think that's a place wheremany, many women get stuck in
their healing journey.
You've read, you've listened toall the podcasts, you've read
all the self-help books, you'vegone to the talk therapy,
you've, you know, meditated ortapped or whatever, but like
(20:29):
something still gets hooked orstuck right there in resentment,
and it's like it won't unhook.
Let's talk about the reframethat needs to happen, what women
need to be able to tap into inorder to actually finally shift
it, right?
So underneath anger is our waymore mushy, vulnerable, scary,
(20:49):
scary feelings, right?
Anger is a feeling that feelssafe for us because it feels
like it's like there's somethere there.
Like anger has weapons.
You know what I mean?
Like anger has weapons, right?
We've talked about that.
Like we could we can tell we canshame him and get validation and
we can perceive like we'redefending ourselves or hurting
them, or right, like how many ofus have had revenge fantasies?
(21:12):
I know many of our listenershave revenge fantasies, but it's
like that's all that's all aprotection over what we don't
want to feel, right?
So let's talk a little bit aboutthe things that we don't
freaking want to feel, we don'twant to face, we don't want to
tap into, we don't want to getin touch with because it feels
too scary, too overwhelming, toovulnerable, and I might
completely fall apart.
Because this is really the keyto release, right?
(21:34):
Is getting what is under theanger.
And so for me, that was reallylike I did not have a consistent
sense of self.
I did not have a grounded senseof worth.
My worth was truly rooted in youapproving of me, you wanting me,
or you needing me, maybe isprobably a healthier actually,
(21:55):
like, or um my performanceeither at work or you know, as a
housekeeper, like a homemaker,you know, it was very, very,
very performance-driven.
And so underneath all that angerwas truly this like, I don't
know how to feel okay unlessyou're okay with me.
And that was way scarier.
(22:17):
When I tapped into any of that,that felt like panic, that felt
like insecurity, it felt like abottomless pit.
It felt like I was gonna falland no net was gonna catch me.
I can't even find all thelanguage for the amount of panic
or insecurity that feltunderneath my anger.
And it took me a lot offoundational work to really feel
safe enough to even touch someof that stuff underneath.
(22:40):
And even when I went to EMDRyears and years and years later,
I still often couldn't accessit, right?
In IFS theory, I had exiles thatdidn't feel safe accessing any
of those scarier feelings.
This is where homeopathy was so,so, so key in being able to
unlock a lot of that buriedtreasure, if you will, right?
But for the women who feel likethey can see the patterns but
(23:01):
they still feel helpless toshift the patterns.
Tiffany, talk a little bit aboutwhat you notice with women in
IFS, their exiles, and thedifficulty accessing those parts
that really need to express alot of pain.
SPEAKER_00 (23:15):
Mm-hmm.
So I think that over time, youknow, you build up these
protector parts, whether you'rea caregiver or people pleaser.
Um, and I feel like as youcontinuously use those parts to
protect yourself, they're angrywith you.
They are worn out, they areexhausted, they don't want to do
that job anymore.
And so a lot of times if theyhave seen over and over that you
(23:36):
have put yourself in dangeroussituations where they keep
having to step in, they're notgoing to show you the exiled
part.
They do not feel safe enoughwith you, that you have enough
self-energy to be able touncover what's really underneath
all of that pain.
So it takes a while sometimes toaccess, sometimes it takes
multiple sessions to even beable to touch the exile.
Some people have done enoughwork to where it's right there
(23:58):
under the surface.
What I see a lot about managerparts is a lot of them are
they're very, very ready to letgo, but they're not going to
step back until they can trustthat you stop putting yourself
in continuous situations to putyourself in danger, whether
that's choosing the same typesof men, friends, you know,
continuing to let family crossyour boundaries, like whatever
it is.
(24:19):
So that's where I start to seewhere you know people struggle
with getting underneath of it.
SPEAKER_02 (24:25):
What would you like to see women start asking
themselves when they catchthemselves doing the ruminating
thing about him or them, whoeverthe they is, right?
Because there are so many peopleto feel resentment towards
during divorce, right?
Like your in-laws or your ownfamily or the people who like so
many, there's just so manylosses, right?
And so many layers of loss.
Sometimes attorneys, right?
Like feeling like your attorneydoesn't have your back.
(24:47):
Like there's just so many waysin which we can focus on
resentment.
And I think there's so manythings going on in the world
that sometimes we even hook ourresentment on to like other
groups in the world that we wantto be angry with or focus on,
right?
So, what would you like to seewomen start checking in with
themselves around?
Or what would you like to seethem reframing or asking
themselves so they can get backinto self-energy?
(25:08):
What are some things that youhave found helpful to like check
your own ruminating thoughts orto get back on track in your own
productive, healing feelingjourney?
SPEAKER_00 (25:20):
A lot of times what I ask women, and it's so funny
because all of my datingrelationships started out the
same.
It's like on date one, I wouldtrauma dump.
Um, and I would basically tellthem all of my scary shit.
And then it's like, wow, if theystay, cool, like here we go.
Um, and nine times out of ten,they didn't.
If they were secure attachers,they ran from the hills for me.
Like I was not a good healthypartner at all.
(25:42):
Um, and and normal, quoteunquote, normal men could see
that right.
So for me, I think it was aboutrealizing that I was in this
cycle.
And so sometimes I would ask,like, why am I sharing?
And I realized that when I cameinto this relationship with my
current partner and I wassharing with him traumatic
things that I had experienced, Iwas sharing from a place of self
(26:03):
and simply sharing for context,not for validation or for
approval.
And that was such a huge shiftfor me.
Also, I was no longer scared ofthe outcome because myself said,
this is a safe person who willlove me regardless of what I'm
sharing.
So I want to share in thiscontext just to be seen and
understood, not to be approvedof or validated.
(26:26):
And that was a huge shift forme.
And I didn't feel the need toshare at all either.
I didn't feel this need to dothis big trauma dump.
And for me, I no longer feltlike I had to protect or care
for, or it was almost like Ican't even explain it in dating,
but it was almost like I wantedto be the woman they'd never
(26:47):
experienced before.
Like I wanted to be the reasonthey lived, breathed, like I
wanted them to look at me asthis elite repetition propulsion
band.
You know, like if they ever lostme, they would never be able to
live.
And so what ended up happeningwas in my first marriage, when I
attracted someone like that, andthen you continue to have a
partner, ex-partner that has thesuicidal tendencies and is
(27:10):
constantly reaching for you astheir protector and caregiver
throughout the years, I waslike, my God, what have I done?
You know, because it's like nowthat's where my resentment came
from is constantly feeling likepost-divorce, I had to keep
coming in and protecting andcaring and saving.
And only when I broke that cycleand figured out how to walk away
from that and that I was nolonger responsible for for his
(27:30):
wanting to live or him wantingto live a quality life or
whatever it was, right?
So I feel like once I let go ofneeding to be like the one and
only fixer and like this elusivething that, like, oh my God,
like if something happened tome, I would never be able to
live without her.
Like I didn't need to hear thosethings anymore.
SPEAKER_02 (27:49):
But you had to get in touch with some big, deep,
scary, insecure feelings to beable to do that.
SPEAKER_00 (27:56):
Like if I didn't protect the people that I loved,
I would be alone.
I would end up gaining left.
And that stemmed back intochildhood.
And I always felt this need toprotect people closest to me,
particularly my mom.
She just was somebody that wouldlet people walk all over her.
(28:17):
She was very much a pleaser, shehad a quiet demeanor, and she's
changed drastically over theyears, which has allowed me to
relieve and step back.
But in the beginning, no.
Like I was always sticking upfor my mom.
SPEAKER_02 (28:29):
Fear fear of abandonment, fear of being lost.
Yeah, absolutely.
Fear of being alone.
I think that's at the core forso many of us, right?
Fear of being alone, unwanted.
That must have been at thedepths of um, but when you think
about it, like the the thedepths of the feelings that I
think women have to process inorder to release resentment,
(28:51):
which it just doesn't seem likeit goes together on the surface,
right?
Is like, I think they're veryyoung feelings.
And I think it's hard for womento realize that or pinpoint it.
Like the the big scary that Ihave had to process over the
years has to be the type of bigscary that like three-year-olds
and six-year-olds feel, like bigscary, right?
(29:11):
Because it's like I'm agrown-ass woman walking around
in this world.
Like my feet touch the pedals, Idrive a car, I own a house, I
like have a child, right?
And the big scary that I haveprocessed over the years, I
think comes from a very, very,very young place.
And I wish women would put thedots together that their
resentment is actually coveringthat kind of stuff underneath.
(29:34):
What stands out to you, Joy,about either your own journey or
the patterns you see women do?
How would you like to, whatwould you, how do you wish they
would reframe there when theyget ruminating on resentment?
How do you wish they wouldreframe it?
SPEAKER_01 (29:48):
The moment when I've discovered I was the main
character, right?
It was a lot of asking myselfwhy.
Tiffany just did a beautifuljob.
Explaining like why am I sendingthis text?
Why am I making this decision?
Why am I and it all for me camedown to that little girl wanting
(30:10):
and needing to be chosen andprotected?
And the little girl that wasnever prioritized was never
chosen is the easiest way.
She was never chosen.
And so I sought part partnersthat didn't choose me that gave
me just enough to be like, oh, Ican subconsciously, like he
(30:32):
he'll he I can get convince himto choose me, right?
Like I can do all these thingsright, and then he's gonna
choose me one day.
And that doesn't actually thatdidn't actually work, right?
So um jokes on me, but it wasdoing the work of choosing
myself.
You know, like when I wassingle, I didn't drink, I didn't
(30:54):
consume alcohol.
I didn't, I exercised every day.
I did so many thingsintentionally to choose me and
to process and to thematicallywork out.
I didn't use that term backthen, but like um I knew it was
important for me to discharge,right?
And so choosing me is whatpivoted my story and that I
(31:19):
created the safety that I inmyself that I needed that I was
looking for externally tovalidate me.
And so when when you startmaking those micro decisions of
eating something nutrient denseinstead of Burger King, you know
what I mean?
Like it was it's it to startshifting what you're attracting
(31:43):
and what what you allow to beconsumed by your energy, right?
So like does a marshal matter?
Like, I don't that that marshaldoesn't even register with me
anymore.
Thanks, peace out, you know.
SPEAKER_02 (31:57):
And it is a million micro decisions, and you know,
the way you tell it, it almostsounds like oh, and then there
was a day that she realized shewas the main character and a
switch flipped, and then shestopped being insecure.
But like, no, it's been layerafter layer after layer, year
after year after year, and it isit's like a crescendo over time,
right?
It's a million micro decisions,right?
SPEAKER_01 (32:17):
And I I mean, like, I'm I'm multiple multiple years
out from my story, and yesterdaywas a pivotal day for me just
because I was like, oh, I'mgonna choose to be me regardless
of who's around me.
Like it's not, it's not a fuckyou, I don't care.
It's a I see you through a lensof if you're not able to come to
(32:38):
the table, that that's a on you,but also I it's almost like um
it's not a pity, but it's a Ipray for you one day for you to
be able to come to the table.
I pray for you to see thatthere's more than this situation
in which you have the the filterof your life going through.
(32:59):
You know what I mean?
Um because it I'm multiple yearsout and I'm still in progress
because it's a journey.
It's a journey, it's a journey.
SPEAKER_02 (33:10):
It's a journey.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I love actually that we'rerecording the day after you had
that, right?
You um just a little context,like Joy went somewhere with her
husband that in previous yearsyou hadn't been included in
because of all these reasons,like all these things, right?
So here's the first year you getincluded in a thing, but you
were able to hold walls of self.
(33:30):
You were able to show up in withconfidence, like grounded
confidence, rather than I feelbetter than or I feel less than,
and you were scanning the room,and maybe some of the people in
the room were feeling betterthan or less than.
And you know, there's backstorythere we don't need to unpack,
but like you were able to holdwalls of self because of all
these micro decisions you'vemade year after year after year
(33:50):
after year.
Yeah.
And it's and super cool.
SPEAKER_01 (33:53):
I I will say this give yourself grace because if
you don't have a perfect day andyou choose to drink maybe two
glasses of wine, or you knowwhat I mean?
Like when you when you choosesomething that's not necessarily
serving, not self, just makesure that you give yourself
grace.
Okay, like great.
I am gonna own that I just didthat.
That wasn't a self-decision, buttomorrow I'm gonna strive to do
(34:15):
better.
Like it, you don't have to haveperfection to be able to come to
the table.
You have to be accountable ofthat.
You have to have accountabilityand consistency, right?
SPEAKER_02 (34:26):
Like, yeah.
I think when when you um I'veheard Abraham Hicks describe
this, you know, in the law ofattraction, like, what is the
predominant vibration thatyou're offering?
So it's like if we choose gracenine times out of ten, that's
the predominant vibration isself-betrayal, right?
But if we're um putting our bestfoot forward and three times out
(34:50):
of ten, we have to giveourselves grace.
Ah, well, the predominantvibration I'm offering is
consistency, self-choosing self,right?
Um not self-abandonment.
SPEAKER_00 (35:00):
What were you gonna add, Tiffany?
I was just gonna say, like,that's what I tell women that we
work with that you know, it'snot about perfection, it's about
progress.
And not punishing yourself for,you know, choosing it and
understanding that, you know, onthe other side of this, there's
still choices that Don, Joy, andI make every day that affects
what we're doing and ourhealing.
(35:20):
The difference is it's justhaving a very keen awareness
around this is what happenedtoday, this is why I chose to do
this today, um, and this is howI can be better tomorrow.
So I do, I understand the wholething with resentment, and it it
makes me, it makes me sad toencounter women who are holding
(35:42):
on for the I'm sorry is in theforgiveness when really the
person they need to forgivethemselves.
That's it.
SPEAKER_02 (35:48):
And so in the Thursday, yeah, in our Thursday
premium episode, we're gonnalook at the three journal
prompts all women need to beable to sit with and answer and
feel through in order toactually let go and move on.
And so I love that you broughtthat up.
That's not one of the journalprompts, like can I forgive
(36:08):
myself, right?
But it's journal promptadjacent.
And I can't wait for us tounpack those three questions
that if you are struggling withresentment and you can't sit
with and answer, fully answerthese three questions and
tolerate the feelings that gowith them, letting go and moving
on is just not on the menu foryou.
So I'm excited for us to recordthat episode.
(36:28):
Next.
All right, big announcement.
Uh, if you are not a premiumsubscriber, we are launching
premium workshops once a month.
There will be a workshop that isonly for premium subscribers.
So we just want you to getinvolved, right?
There is so much we can learn onthe podcast, but then we have to
(36:51):
also do.
And premium workshops andpremium episodes in general are
to help you take what we hearand what we learn about on the
podcast and put it intopractice.
So, strong recommendation tobecome a premium subscriber and
to jump into your healing at adifferent level.
Attend the workshop and um kickyour healing up to the next
(37:15):
level.
We love you so much.
Peace.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.