Deep Thoughts about Pee-Wee's Playhouse with Mallory Henson

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm Emily Guy-Burken and you're listening to Deep
Thoughts About Stupid Shit,because pop culture is still
culture, and shouldn't you knowwhat's in your head?
On today's episode, my sister,Tracy Guy-Decker, and I are
welcoming Mallory Henson to talkto us about Pee-Wee's Playhouse
, so let's dive in.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Have you ever had something you love dismissed
because it's just pop culture,what others might deem stupid
shit?
You know matters, you know it'sworth talking and thinking
about, and so do we.
So come overthink with us as wedelve into our deep thoughts
about stupid shit.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
So I am really excited and pleased to introduce
Mallory Henson.
I got a chance to meet her atthe AWP conference, which stands
for the Association of Writersand Writing Programs, this past
February 2024.
She was at a podcasting booththat was set up to look like
Lucy's psychiatry five cents.

(00:58):
I went over and was chatting abit and told her a little bit
about my podcast and her firstquestion was have you done Pee
Wee's Playhouse?
And I was like, oh my goodness,I hadn't even thought of it.
Just to give you a background,mallory Henson is a collage
artist, poet, short form writerand vintage toy collector.
Based in Southern Pennsylvania.

(01:18):
She's been hoarding smallobjects.
She was small herself and likesto spend her spare time hunting
for treasure at thrift storesand yard sales.
Mallory's biggest influencesinclude Memphis, milano Style,
pee Wee's Playhouse, clarissaDarling, stop Motion Films, the
Evolution of Fashion, natureWriting and Postmodern and
Surrealist Art she currentlyworks on there's a Poem in that

(01:39):
which was the podcast that hadthat wonderful booth, a podcast
which turns strangers' storiesinto poetry.
You can find her on Instagramas at PoetCetera.
So, mallory, welcome.
Thank you so much for joiningus, happy to be here.
So we normally start off withjust kind of.

(02:00):
Whichever sister is presenting,we'll ask the other sister what
she remembers about theparticular pop culture.
So Tracy and I are just goingto kind of share what we know or
remember about Pee Wee'sPlayhouse.
Neither of us really watched iton the regular.
It was one of those where, like, if it was on we watched it but
we didn't make a habit of it.
I recall the costume, like thatslim gray suit with the red bow

(02:28):
tie that Paul Rubens was theactor's name.
Is that right that Pee Weewould wear?
I remember that LawrenceFishburne was a cowboy.
I remember the I think it was agenie, the head in a box that
would have a secret word, andanytime you said the secret word

(02:48):
you're supposed to shout and,like, make noise.
And there was a couch or achair that was alive.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
It was a chair, yep.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
It was a chair.
Um, I, I can.
I know that I saw Pee-wee's BigAdventure, the movie about his
bike, a couple, three times,cause I have more vivid memories
of that.
But that's.
That's about all I kind of havein my in my head about Pee-wee.

(03:18):
Herman Tracy, what, what do youremember?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Um, I think maybe the reason that, like Pee-wee's Big
Adventure is so much bigger forboth of us is age a little bit,
Because I had some friendsright after college that were a
little bit older than I who werereally, really into Pee Wee's
Playhouse and had like I want tosay it was on VHS like a big
block.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Oh, I have it whole yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:46):
So I have a feeling that it might be age, that we
were the right age for Pee-wee'sbig adventure, but not for
Pee-wee's playhouse.
But I have similarrecollections.
Those friends I actuallywatched it a few episodes with
them, like right after college,so in the like late nineties,
early two thousands, Um, and thething that was like in my

(04:10):
memory Peewee's playhouse isthis sort of delightful sketch
comedy like kids show that wasnot for kids and that's that's
part of like, that's that's thebrand that it has in my head.
And then, of course, we can'ttalk about Paul Rubens without
talking about, or at leastremembering, that controversy
with the movie theater which hehe got called out for

(04:33):
masturbating in a movie theater,but it was like a porn theater
and I'm kind of like isn't thatwhat those are for?
Like I mean, I, I even at thetime I was a fairly young adult
I remember thinking like so Imean, anyway, I know that's not
the way the broader culturethought of it, maybe in part

(04:54):
because he had such a childlikepersona as Pee Wee.
So anyway, that's what I got.
It's not a whole lot.
I do remember the chair, cherry, the cushion.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Cherry, yeah, her name was.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Cherry.
I do remember the chair Cherry,the cushion Cherry.
Her name was Cherry Because thecushions were her mouth.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
I have a cherry kind of hanging out there in the
corner, very cool.

Speaker 2 (05:20):
I remember the things Emily remembers you said the
word and sometimes that actuallyin that voice, will come.
I don't.
I don't remember why, but evenwithin the past month or so,
like somebody said something andI was like you said the word.
So, um, it's definitely inthere as furniture, although I'm
I'm excited to hear from you,mallory, someone who is, you

(05:43):
know, more deeply invested in it, how it has shown up.
But talk to us, why is this thething that you were like, emily
?
Have you talked about Pee Wee'sPlayhouse?
What's at stake here?
Why is this so important to you?

Speaker 3 (05:57):
Well, so, interestingly, I never watched
it as a kid or a teen.
It was just not on my radarperiod and so when I discovered
it it was maybe 10 years ago now, so this is a somewhat recent
fixation and it just sort ofencapsulated everything I think
I wanted my childhood to be,because it was crazy, because I
have a lot of siblings and mycousins lived with us as well,

(06:18):
so there was a lot going on, butit was a lot of.
You know, when you're in a groupthat you have to play to the
group and you're around a lot ofother people, so you're doing
what the other people want andthere's not a lot of room for
you to be you necessarily.
And also I have a twin, so youspend a lot of time growing up
with another person sort ofattached to you at all times,
and it takes you a long time, Iguess, to come out of that and

(06:42):
figure out who you are as aperson.
And so I think I found PeeWee's Playhouse at just the
right time where I was figuringout who I was, and it just sort
of somehow became like atouchstone to what I thought
childhood might be or should beor could have been so it's.
It's weirdly emotional for me,even though it's an adult
fixation.
That's awesome, thatresonatesily, and I both have

(07:04):
some adult fixations yeah thisidea that when you become an
adult, that you know you have togive up all the things from
when you were a kid, which Ithink is absolutely ludicrous.
And I've been a nanny for uh, Iwas like 12 years all in and I
have nieces and nephews, and soit's a lot of like you have to

(07:24):
embrace the child, because thechildren are there all the time,
and I have tried, with everykid that I've watched or in my
nieces and nephews, to be likeokay, let me show you this thing
that I'm really passionateabout, and they're all kind of
like yeah, whatever, like wewant to go play Minecraft, leave
us alone.
Yeah, yeah, like, oh, you'remissing out on color and
craziness and just a chance tobe whoever you are and be

(07:46):
accepted for whoever that personis in any way, and I love that
idea.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
You know, it's interesting because I definitely
internalized the idea that youhave to give up childish things
as you get older, and so I havebeen so enamored of the fact
that unicorns made a bigcomeback in like 2016, because I
love them and I was at an agewhere I was like, okay, you know

(08:11):
what, I'm old enough to notcare, I'm old enough to not care
that people are going to saylike you're too old for that and
that's, yeah, the embodiment oflike I know you are, but what
am I?
Yeah, yeah, the embodiment oflike I know you are, but what am
I?
Yeah, is really lovely just tobe like.
Yeah, you don't have to be.
Just because you grow updoesn't mean you have to be a

(08:32):
grown up.

Speaker 3 (08:33):
Yeah, the fun doesn't need to get sucked out of your
life when you turn 18.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
Yeah right, All right Well, so that's why it's
important Bring us and ourlisteners up to speed.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Like what's the deal with this show?
I think the deal with the showis that it genuinely gives
everyone permission to be whoyou are, in whatever crazy way
that other people maybe likesociety at large, right Things
you shouldn't be or things thatare unacceptable or,
interestingly, like theidentities of people on the show
and their experiences in lifelater on, like you can see, a

(09:10):
lot of the actors like embracingthis idea of being yourself and
and finding the child in youand I don't know I feel so
passionate about.
I feel like you get reallyworked up when I'm trying to
explain this to people, becausewhen you tell someone, yeah, I'm
obsessed with Pee Wee'sPlayhouse, it's just sort of
like an eye roll moment and it'shard to get past because when

(09:30):
it's the thing that's that bigin your life and you're trying
to share it with someone andthey just don't care, it can be
really difficult.
So getting to talk about it isexciting for me, and now I've
forgotten what the question was.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
That's okay.
So remind us, like, who is PeeWee, who are the people?
Like, what's the playhouse,like what is the conceit of the
show?

Speaker 3 (09:49):
So interestingly, the show never gives you any
context for what's going on,which I think is great because
it allows you to just jump inand whatever's going on, you
just accept that that's what'shappening.
And it can be something like oh, we're all going to go and talk
about going to the swimmingpool that we never see.
You know that the swimming poolis there.
They go out to the swimmingpool.
It cuts to something else whilethey're swimming and they come
back and so there's just all ofthese things happening on all of

(10:12):
these levels that I don't know.
I guess that it's what a lot ofpeople would say is
overstimulating about the show,is that there is so much
happening all the time.
But in my head that is whatchildhood is.
It's all of these things sortof being thrown at you at one
time, and I think that is partof learning how to adapt.
So the show itself is quitecrazy and intense and the only

(10:36):
real structure to it is thesecret word right and Jambi, who
is the floating genie head inthe box.
He grants Pee Wee or someoneelse in the playhouse at other
points a wish every episode, butotherwise it is just sort of
madcap.
There are these littlerepeating bits, like there's a
stop motion like claymationcharacter named Penny who's this

(10:58):
young girl, and she just tellsstories and it's animated over
her stories.
And that was one of the firstthings I saw that really got me
into stop motion and claymationin general and I sort of went on
this crazy rabbit hole withthat.
So now I've gotten very intoseeking out any claymation art
that I can find, because I thinkit is a medium that should be

(11:20):
used more and I think the factthat Paul Rubens was using that
at the time that he was wasamazing.
He was always just sort ofslightly ahead of everything and
dealing with a lot of thingsthat were underground and
wouldn't necessarily beavailable to children, but
presenting it to them in a waythat made them want to learn
more about it.
And I think that is one of, forme, the big takeaways from the

(11:41):
show is that children arecomplicated and deep and crazy
at the same time and want tohave fun and all of those things
can coexist in a single person.
So the show itself gives peoplethat permission and that chance
to just sort of be who you areand create a community and be
loved within that community, nomatter what's going on.

(12:02):
Create a community and be lovedwithin that community, no
matter what's going on.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
In addition to Peewee and then the zombie, who are
the regular characters there's.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Terry, who actually does have a voice.
She's puppeteered and voiced bya woman named Alison Mork.
And then there's Randy, who isa like a marionette puppet.
He sort of drops down from theceiling a lot.
Cowboy Curtisis, who was playedby laurence fishburne okay, in
the first season phil hartmanwas actually on.
He was brought over from thekiwi herman stage show with the

(12:34):
groundlings as a charactercalled captain carl, who just
was always coming in from anadventure at sea, but he was
sort of very gruff.
There's a talking globe thatrolls around on the floor named
globy.
So everyone is very sort ofnamed after what they are.
So cherry, globy, clocky is aclock that hangs on the wall in
the second season onward andjust doesn't really do much of

(12:58):
anything but just interacts withpeople.
The robot that gives the wordof the day, conky reba.
The mail lady there were twocharacters that sort of get
flipped over from the firstseason and change into other
people and some people from thefirst season that just don't
exist.
Later on there is someone whocomes in to introduce the king
of cartoons, who is the one thathe has a little remote and he

(13:21):
just clicks the TV on and youknow it plays a random cartoon,
usually just clicks the tv onand you know it plays a random
cartoon, usually from like the50s and 60s.
There's a little playhouse gang, it's like three kids that come
on.
There's just it's charactersupon characters upon characters.
I think that's part of what isso entertaining, because you
never know what's going tohappen or who's going to show up
and you wind up getting theselike weird guest roles, like

(13:45):
jimmy smith, who came in andplayed a repairman and I don't
know.
It's just it's a blast to tryto spot people who would then go
on to do things.
Uh, natasha leone um, whoeveryone seems to know about now
.
She was one of the kids in theplayhouse gang for a season.
So you get these people thatthen go on to do crazy things

(14:07):
and it's a blast to see.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
What's the history of the character Like how did
Rubens come up with Pee-weHerman?
In the same way, there waspearl clutching about Bart
Simpson, where it was like whatrole models are we giving

(14:30):
children these days?
It's an adult pretending to bea kid or something I don't know.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, so Paul Rubens was very much inspired by sort
of things like Howdy Doody andPinky Lee, so things that he
would have watched in hischildhood and sort of
internalized all that andthought like I can turn that
into a character.
But what if we combined thatsort of with the idea initially
that it was?
It's so hard for me to explainbecause I feel like he's never

(15:00):
been super open about a lot ofthings in his life, so he
doesn't talk a ton about hispast, and so you're sort of
piecing things together frominterviews and clips of things
that I've watched.
But the initial character wasmade as a, a character I guess
in the groundlings, which is acomedy troupe that paul was part
of with phil hartman and johnparagon, who played john b, and

(15:23):
lynn marie stewart who playsmissy vaughn, and so they all
sort of workshopped thischaracter together and peewee
started out as someone who wasjust like the worst stand-up
comic of all time, like he wouldjust come out with a bag of
toys and like play with the toys, acting as a child on stage,
and people really loved it, andso that sort of led to a much
longer special called the peeeeWee Herman Show, which he did at

(15:45):
the Groundlings Theater for along time and then HBO recorded
it and so that was played on HBOand I think that was a lot of
people's like big intro to PeeWee and that was so popular that
that is initially what got himin the door to make Pee Wee's
Big Adventure, which predatesPee Wee's Playhouse oh really.
Adventure which predates pwisplayhouse oh really.
So it's just sort of in thisslow, like what do we want this

(16:06):
character to be?
You know who am I and how muchof myself do I want to put into
this character.
And then how do we make thischaracter a children's character
?
Right, because they initiallypitched him, you know, do you
want to do an animated show?
And he said, no, I want to dolive action.
I want it to just be a realplace that people can feel like

(16:28):
they're involved in.
And so that you know, it washim and a couple of other people
working on taking thatcharacter and sort of twisting
it a little bit to make itsomething children could watch.
And there are obviously thingsin the show that pretty adult
but that you don't pick up onwhen you're young.
The same way, you know, youwatch Animaniacs and you don't
realize half of what's going onin there until later, and I

(16:50):
think that's what makes it sogood is it works on so many
levels.
You can watch it at any pointin your life and you're picking
up on very different things.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
Yeah, I think the best because of what you just
said about kids being deep andcomplicated.
I think the best because ofwhat you just said about kids
being deep and complicated, Ithink the best children's
television actually does appealto adults, like there's a reason
that our folks didn't mindwatching sesame street with us,
whereas barney was just, youknow, unacceptable.
So I think that and that reallyresonates for me.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
I hated that little bald kid in a weird way like a
really spoiled kid, which PeeWee's character was very spoiled
as well, but just likeexpressing that in quite
different ways.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
I want to hear more about.
So where my brain is going withwhat you're describing,
especially with like Cherry andClocky and Globy, is sort of the
permission to do that, to seekind of personality in inanimate
objects and the imaginativeplay that that then um, that

(18:03):
that that that encourages.
So I want to go there and theother thing and we can put a pin
in this or we can just deletemy asking you about this
altogether.
But I can't help but thinkabout spongebob squarepants when
talking about peewee.
Like peewee, in the way you'retalking about him and me
thinking about these twocharacters like spongebob feels
almost derivative as this adultwho he's living an adult life

(18:27):
but he clearly is not an adultand the way that he interacts in
the imaginative play and all ofthose things.
So we can go there or not, butthat's, those are the two places
that my my brain is going asI'm listening to you talk.

Speaker 3 (18:39):
That's interesting.
So I've not watched a ton ofSpongebob.
Some of the kids that I used towatch were very, very into it,
um, and I think what bothered meabout it was that I didn't like
the animation style and so Ifound it really difficult to get
into that.
But I can be really snobbyabout my animation, so don't
like, that's what I'm not saying.
People should not watchSpongebob and the parts that
I've seen, like the writing Ialways thought was quite good

(19:00):
and the characters are reallyinteresting, and it was again
like this ludicrous situation.
But you're buying into it, likeyou go there whatever they're
going to do.
You're like, yes, that's fine,let's take it to the next level.
And I appreciate that aboutkids TV shows because, like you
said, it is when you're workingon multiple levels like that, it
is something that you can thencarry on later in life, like if

(19:22):
you know, if you went back andwatched and I've tried to do
this a lot of shows that I lovedas a kid, I'm like why?
Why was this a thing and whywas I so?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
obsessed.
You can't go home again on someof them, it's true.
No, that's actually what thiswhole project is about.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
I don't think that's okay to write.
You learn something aboutyourself, about who you've
become, when you stop connectingwith certain things from your
childhood.
Um yeah, the flip side of thatis sometimes you find something
and you're like this is sogenius and I didn't even know it
at the time.
Like clearly I saw something init and I connected with that
and that's great.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
But now I'm seeing it on a whole different level so
just a quick aside for Spongebob, and then I'll, we, and then
you can take us back to Pee Wee.
We're old enough.
Spongebob was out I was in my20s but I loved it so much.
I watched all of them and Iintroduced it to our parents and
our mom and stepdad told methat they could only watch it
with me because they didn't knowwhen to laugh if I wasn't there

(20:18):
laughing, because they didn'tthink it was funny.
Because they didn't think itwas funny, which I think is
really, really I think is reallyinteresting now, like thinking
about generationally, becausenow my kid, who will be 12 later
this month, you know, grew upwith SpongeBob and that's like
part of her sense of humor now,so that like she'll, we'll be
doing something and then she'llgo two hours later.

(20:39):
It indicates to me that I'mtaking too long, like that's how
she and she'll do it in thatlike bikini bottom there, I
think.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
So, yeah, our, our references, well, and I, you
know just people's references ingeneral, like sometimes it is,
it becomes such a big thing inpop culture or just any culture
in general, that like it is justa part of how we express things
and I, I, I don't even think werealize we're doing it until
you're looking back on, like oh,that's where I got that from,
Like that's why that's a thing.

Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Anyway, thanks for uh.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
I am one thing that I'm finding interesting Tracy
about.
Uh, like what you mentionedabout, like the
anthropomorphizing, like theclock and the globe and the
chair and all of that and all oftheir names are just what they
are which is totally how wenamed our things when we were
kids.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Exactly what it is, yes, and I always thought that
meant I didn't have muchimagination.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
No, but this.
This shows like.
No, you don't have to like.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
This is bartholomew, saint vincent, my globe no, but
it is exactly, I think, workingwith kids and watching the
parallels there, right, like themannerisms that paul does in
character, right, the choicesthat he makes the, the set of
the playhouse, like how crazyand overwhelming it is.
Like if you gave a kid like aroom and a bunch of stuff and

(22:07):
we're like, here you go, havefun.
Like that is what they would dowith it.
Right, they would create thesecrazy things and they would give
them lives and personalities.
And I think that's such a agorgeous thing to represent on
tv because I don't know whenyou're in your head, right at
any point, even when you'rewriting or trying to, you know,

(22:28):
create art like it is a worldthat's going on inside of your
head.
And I think that a lot of timeswe teach kids that maybe they
shouldn't like express thatworld or like, oh, if you have
imaginary friends, like don'ttell anyone.
But no, like everyone's gotthese weird little things in
them and there's nothing to beashamed of.
It's something to celebrate.
And I think Peewee's playhousedoes that.
It gives you a safe space and agroup of people who are going

(22:53):
to love you and support you andI.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
That it makes me happy and it makes me feel safe
so out of curiosity, do you knowif there was any like, if
Ruben's had any background inlike education, early childhood
development, or if the show usedany uh like?

Speaker 3 (23:11):
it didn't, experts, no, and I find it interesting
because that's such a like.
You know you would have thingslike mr rogers, which was, you
know, huge for me as a kid andthat was like doing a lot of the
same things that pewee'splayhouse was doing, but in a
very different way.
And, and I think that wasanother thing I liked was, again
, these are different ways youcan experience your childhood.

Speaker 1 (23:32):
What's?
In a previous life, I was ahigh school English teacher, and
one of the reasons why I wascurious to see if Rubens had any
background in education earlychildhood development is because
when you teach, you see justthe sheer number of adults who
have completely forgotten whatit's like to be a child and who

(23:53):
have, uh, and both adults whoare like in teaching, in
education, and then also likeparents, who have these
expectations of what a kidshould be able to do or ought to
do or anything like that.
That causes quite a lot ofunhappiness.

(24:13):
It's very much getting better.
My kids, the teachers that mykids have, have been much better
trained than I was.
My last year of teaching was2010.
So things have changed a lot,but just considering the fact
that Pee Wee's Playhouse was outin the 80s to early 90s, is
that about right?
Yes, for kids, instead of, likeyou know, making something that

(24:35):
he that adults think kids willlike, or making something that

(24:57):
adults think kids should like,is is just it's remarkable Cause
he's a comedian.
And like that doesn't you know,sure, comedians can be very much
in touch with their inner child, but it's just knowing how rare
it is, even in education is, iskind of amazing to me that he
was able to do this, whichexplains it's, uh like, why he
was able to make it into a stageshow, into a hbo show, into a

(25:20):
movie, into the fewies playhouse.
I mean like, because clearly,two movies after that as well,
oh, two more.
I knew there were two movies,but I didn't remember the third.

Speaker 3 (25:31):
So there there was one that came out on netflix I
think it was six years ago now,because I just got a facebook
notification.
Wow, it's like, it's just likehe goes on a crazy road trip and
joe manganello is in it andlike plays his best friend and
he works in the diner.
It's completely ridiculous.
But I think the other thing Ilike so much about Pee Wee is he

(25:51):
just sort of takes these littlemoments that you know, I guess
that anyone would have in theirlives, and then takes that tiny
thing and spins it off intosomething completely ridiculous
and a crazy adventure they have.

(26:25):
I've got this one idea and nowI'm going to make it.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
You know, three hours worth of playtime and I think
that's such a fun thing to doand like.
If we would all just sort ofspin out on our own as adults
like, and stop being focused onbeing one specific way, maybe
everyone would be just a tinybit more fulfilled and happy.
Yeah, trying to protect thatplayfulness in my kids.
My elder son is, um, he's awriter and one of the things
like, because I am a writer,he's like yeah, so when I'm 18,
mom will help me publish this.
I'm like okay, I want to giveyou like realistic views on how

(26:49):
publishing works, cause it's notthat simple.
But I also don't want to giveyou like realistic views on how
publishing works, because it'snot that simple.
But I also don't want to dolike in the 80s, when I was his
age and I was writing stuff.
I'd get the like don't get abig head, you know, don't?

Speaker 2 (27:02):
you know like you're talented, but there's gonna be
more talented people out thereand, like you know, lower your
expectations talented people outthere and, like you know, lower
your expectations, and so Ithink it's like that people are
trying to protect kids fromrejection.
Yes, and then so they rejectthem, so they reject them.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and so forthat.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Yeah, and so it's just like I really want to
protect his joy in writingbecause, like Tracy and I've
both talked about how fraughtbeing creative becomes when you
have this sense of like I haveto do it right because there's

(27:43):
so much writing on it.
And and that's like, when Ithink of Huey Herman, I think of
like his voice, because that'sthat's a kind of nasally voice
that he put on, but I also thinkof like I don't know, just
adventure, not just joy, likejust the colors and everything

(28:04):
moving around all at once, thedance, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:10):
Oh gosh, yes, the dance.
Yeah, oh gosh, yes, the dance.
There's one little bit on theshow where he does that dance,
but there's all.
There is, interestingly, a lotof dance in the show as well, so
like cut away to scenes andthen miss yvonne will be, you
know, and this is like there aresome things on the show that
have not aged especially well.
Um, but I think for a show thatwas, you know, happening in the
late 80s, like it's surprisinglyprogressive, and I think a lot

(28:33):
of that is probably that youknow, paul came from a
background of theater and so hehad spent a lot of time
interacting with a lot of peoplefrom a lot of backgrounds, and
I think he took that andrealized how valuable that was,
because it gave him aperspective on life that not a
lot of people see, and I thinkit's something that sesame
street also does incredibly well.

(28:53):
Right, like, let's show kids arange of experiences and to
learn that those experiences arevaluable because you know when
you exist in the world, the bestway to go about it and the best
way for everyone to learn is byknowing that not everyone's
experience is the same.
Yeah, and I, I think the otherthing, and I think about this a

(29:17):
lot, especially over the lastcouple of weeks, cause it's just
been in my head but like Paulwas always very good about
having a range of people on theshow that that were very
different from him, right, so hewas.
You know, there were a lot ofpeople of color on the show and
I I didn't see that a lot in mychildhood because I grew up in a
predominantly white area, and Ithink maybe if I had seen that

(29:41):
it would have been easier tosort of dig myself out of that
idea, I guess, of what life isfor everyone.
So I got my way there anyway,obviously, but looking back,
like like man, that would havebeen a nice little, just a
little thing to have there, thefirst bookend to move forward
from.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Yeah, intercultural competence is is really hard and
essential.
So, yeah, and, and I think thething that Sesame street and I,
and what I'm hearing you suggestPee Wee does as well, is to
view difference with curiosityrather than judgment.

Speaker 3 (30:15):
Yeah, curiosity and acceptance right, like that.
It is okay to be different.
Whatever that difference isLike, people don't need to be
judged for it, even grow fromthat difference, because some
differences are incrediblyinnate and some you will learn
as an adult and some you willlearn as a child.
And that life is is all change,and accepting that change is

(30:38):
sort of a very big thing, right,because that you know, when you
think about peewee's bigadventure that is, it's about
him going out into the worldfrom you know, a pretty small
town where he's just got theserelationships with other people,
but then he's got to go andlearn what the world is actually
like.
And I think that that is alesson that everyone learns at
some point that what you see ofthe world when you're young is

(31:01):
not what the world actually is.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
So I want to come back to.
You said some things didn't agewell.
Let's yeah, let's talk aboutthat.
What so?
What didn't age well?
Let's yeah, let's talk aboutthat.
What?
What didn't age well?

Speaker 3 (31:12):
so there are just some I mean some jokes that
don't playhouse is notespecially bad in in terms of
this.
There's some things in some ofthe movies that I have some
issues with, but I thinksometimes I don't know there are
terminology or a lot of likeappropriation that I think was

(31:34):
done, you know, from a place ofnot knowing or not understanding
, right, Like let's wear thisoutfit that's clearly native to
people of Hawaii and act likeit's sort of like a big joke or
just a fashion statement orwhatever, and it's like it's
little things like that.
But when you start picking upon them, it's little things like
that, but when you startpicking up on them, it's kind of
like okay, like I can acceptthat that's what that was, but I

(31:57):
know that I don't not know butthink that it wasn't coming from
a bad place, but that later,like doesn't look great yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
yeah sure, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
I I have a very vivid memory of one gag where there's
like a neighbor, I think, whowears her hair like a beehive or
something.

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah, so Miss Yvonne does like the beehive.
And then there are twoneighbors in the first season
there's one named Mrs Steve, andthen in the later seasons
there's a woman named Mrs Reneewho comes over, who's like
dressed very mod, Like all ofher outfits are very sickly and
floral.
But the beehive would have been.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Miss Yvonne, okay, so what I'm remembering, it was a
woman who came over Pee-wee,wasn't there.
There was cake on the counter.
Yes, that's Mrs Steve, okay,and she cuts, like cuts a really
big piece, yes, and then yousee her put the piece back and
eat the rest of the cake.

(32:56):
Yes, I remember that.
I wish I could remember whythat stuck with me as so
inappropriate, even as a kidwatching that I was just like
that, that's.
That's really a rude joke it isand I think, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (33:18):
It's weird because a lot of the writing um paul
approved everything but a lot ofit was done by, uh john paragon
and he did a lot of writing onthe original peewee herman show
as well.
Uh, and, and Phil Hartman alsodid writing on the first season
and I think that sort of petersout in later seasons and I don't
know if it's because theyrealized, like you know, that
that doesn't play well, that'snot great and that's kind of

(33:39):
contrary to the message we'retrying to put across.
But yeah, you're right, Ihadn't even thought about that
scene in a while.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
The first season.

Speaker 3 (33:47):
It's a little, it's a lot rougher around the edges
than the later seasons and theywere working in sort of a really
small space and on anincredibly tight budget.
And after season two everythingjumps over to la and it just
sort of, uh like spreads out andthey actually do a whole revamp
of the playhouse.
Like that's the first episode,like, oh, we're gonna we're

(34:08):
gonna make one of the playhouseand and that's where you get
characters like clocky and florythat don't exist in the first
season.
But I do think that the firstseason as much as I love it and
because it's the first peeweethat I saw, I have like a really
deep connection to it there area lot of moments where I'm kind
of like okay, like we couldjust a little less of that.

Speaker 2 (34:30):
Can we stay with this scene a little bit?
Can we analyze?

Speaker 3 (34:33):
this a little bit.

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Let's spell it out a little bit more.
Is Mrs Steed heavy?

Speaker 3 (34:38):
Is it a fat joke?
It absolutely is a fat joke.
She's also the character thatis sort of out of touch with
everyone else in the playhouse.
They're all having a good timeand she's just sort of not okay
with them being a little crazy,um.

(35:00):
And so she comes in and she'salways sort of like trying to
stop them from being who theyare and whatever they're doing,
not in like a telling them youshouldn't be doing this.
But it's clear by her attitudethat, like she's only there
because she's in proximity tothe playhouse and she feels like
she can get something from it.
I don't know, it's a weirddynamic, um, and she again
doesn't come back in the secondseason, so you never hear

(35:23):
anything else about her.
But every time she is on screenit is this sort of like well,
no one really wants her here,and so there is a disconnect
between that and what I feellike is the messaging of Pee
Wee's Playhouse later on.

Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, and and layered into her, so I haven't seen it.
So, but you know, the fact thatthis is a female character, the
fact that this is a fat bodiedcharacter, there's like kind of
layers of yeah, why is that?
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
No, that's a good point.
Well, and that's I think that'swhat stuck with me back then is
, um, I mean like because I, Iwas a kid, you know maybe 10, I
don't know, 8 and or somewherearound there, but that that
scene, like I couldn't tell youanything else about that episode
, um, and like I was okay withbecause she was like as close to
an antagonist as I, as I canrecall their being um, and it's

(36:20):
just like, oh, it's not okay forher to be coming into the
playhouse when no one else isthere and she's not been invited
.

Speaker 3 (36:24):
It's not okay for her to help herself to food yeah,
well, wait a minute trying toplay it off, as, but it doesn't,
that's not what you get fromthat moment, absolutely and I
remember it.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
Like it surprised me when they did that and I was
like, oh, that's actually kindof an obvious joke.
Yeah, like, and and it stuckwith me Like I've seen that joke
many, many, many times since.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
I think it was a lazy joke, right?

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, Yep, it's lazy.
So and?
And when you say that peteredout in later seasons, what?
What you're saying petered outis that laziness, that you
relied on stereotypes.

Speaker 3 (37:01):
Yes, absolutely, cause I don't know.
I'm trying to think I've seenthe episodes probably a good 20
times and I don't feel likethere's any other point where
they ever make a comment aboutanyone's body except to, you
know, to say that they're lovedin some way.
So I'm I don't know.
I'm wondering if it's they weretrying to figure out what the
show actually was at that pointand they were still going for a

(37:24):
lot of jokes that maybe theywould have done on the peewee
herman show, for example.
But either way, it's not anokay joke to be making it all
and I think it is probably justlike oh, oh, yeah, that's a joke
, we're going to put it in there, but should not have been.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
Well, that's also.
I mean, it's a product of thetime, like you know, if you look
at any media from the 80s,there's a lot in there there's a
lot of fat phobia, yeah, andlike actually you don't even
have to go that back that far.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
No, phobia, yeah, and like actually you don't even
have to go that back that far.
No, no, I mean I don't.
It's interesting to me thatthat is like I'm not a skinny
person at all and it's I.
I don't know.
I didn't internalize any ofthat from tv growing up, but I
internalized it a lot from, like, people around me who were
always you know, oh, I need tolose weight because that's what
everyone was doing, and I justnever understood that sort of
approach.
So I don't know, it's weirdthat that wouldn't have stuck

(38:19):
with me when I saw that, butthen I wouldn't have thought
like that's not a good thing tohave in a kid's show.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
What's interesting is , like part of the reason why it
stuck with me was like when wewere growing up I was the fat
one.
Yeah, like I don't know ifanyone actually said that there
might be some people in ourfamily who did think anybody
used that word yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:40):
I don't think they need to, though.
Nobody used that word, but thatcertainly was like of the pair
of us Like, yeah, you were thecute one and I was the thin one,
yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:49):
Yeah, and we had a like a babysitter called me
mucho piggo and miss piggy, um,and so like the thing is like I
have in the past few years, I'vebeen listening to like
maintenance phase and and andlike deconstructing quite a bit
of of like that kind offurniture in my mind and
realizing how, uh, like the bindof straight size, normal size

(39:11):
women yeah, I don't like thebind of straight size, normal
size women I don't like the wordnormal but straight size women
who are not really reallyslender helps like reinforce all
of this.
And I know as a kid that Iself-identified with fat
characters because, compared tomy sister, I was the fat one and
I remember my parents at onepoint being like surprised at

(39:34):
that where I was just like thisis not okay, the way they're
treating this character Like whydo you care?
And I'm like cause thatcharacter's me.
And they're like no, no, she'snot.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
And I'm like so that's my experience, right Like
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
And so and some of that is just the the what's
interesting about our cultureand our society is that there is
punishment for your body, nomatter where you are.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
So like, even with like I was jealous of Tracy
because she was a thin one, butshe, like I, was the cute one,
and so like, and that was likewe each were like policing
ourselves and each other andeveryone else we came into
contact with.
And that is like.

Speaker 3 (40:17):
That's why that moment stuck with me, because it
was like that's proof of thepolicing it's not just in our
little circle, it's not just ourfamily, it's not just in
baltimore, it's the whole worldis telling me yeah, to have
something that, objectively, islike not a pleasant thing to
watch, right, but interestinglyit taught you a lesson in some

(40:38):
way, right, like it gave yourepresentation of something
that's going on and like I don'tthink that was intentional,
like I don't think the writingmade that happen, but that's huh
it's what's funny, becausethat's like when you first were
like, hey, talk about Pee Wee.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
My immediate memories are about like the suit and the
laugh and like you know thosesorts of things.
But it's right underneath ofthere, it's like yeah that was a
Pee Wee's Playhouse scene andso like it's just it's.
It's interesting because it isso deeply baked into so much of
our culture that it's almostinvisible, and like I'm really

(41:19):
glad to hear that that kind oflazy joke at someone's expense
was like fell by the wayside, asas they continued on.
You know, when you know better,you do better.
As as they continued on, youknow, when you know better, you
do better.
But uh, yeah, I rememberthinking about the actress

(41:40):
playing that.
Yeah, because, like that, thatwas one of the things where I
was just like that's gotta feelbad yeah, I always felt that way
a little bit, watching like thedrew carrie show, like with
mimi's character.

Speaker 3 (41:49):
because, yes, I remember when I first started
watching pb's playoffs, thinkinglike mrs ste, steve and Mrs
Renee were like if you sort ofcombine them together, they were
that character and so I don'tknow, huh, I think sometimes
things pop into my head and I'mlike, wow, now I gotta, really I
got some digging to do.

(42:10):
I I think internally myself.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah Well, and that's part of what we're doing with
this project is just realizinghow deep the roots go for a lot
of these things.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
Absolutely.
We've been talking for a minuteand I would love, before we
sort of wrap up, you came on totalk about Pee Wee's Playhouse,
because you love it so much.
Yes, and we heard I heard inthe abstract, what you love
about it.
Yeah, and I deeply appreciateit.
I would love if you would shareyour like number one, like what

(42:47):
is the scene or the episodethat you're just like?
This is it?
This is the epitome of why Ilove it.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Like, describe that for us so that we can leave with
like under better understanding, the deep affection that you
brought to us so there is anepisode, uh, in the first season
, with this character namedroger, who only ever makes one
other appearance.
But the whole concept of theepisode is that roger is this
giant monster and everyone isterrified of him because they've

(43:13):
never met him before.
And he's he's over the top,like ridiculous, sort of, like
you know, six and a half feettall, giant foam suit with a
huge eyeball, like wiggly arms,and he just sort of hops around,
so, like you know, at baselevel, like he's not threatening
in any way, but he's somethingnew.
And he's not threatening in anyway, but he's something new and

(43:33):
he's an addition to the dynamicthat, you know, no one's
understood or experienced before.
And so the whole episode issort of about them learning why
they're scared and that thatfear just comes from lack of
experience.
And I, like I immediately waslike no, this is like best
episode for me, because that, Ithink, is a lesson because we

(43:55):
were talking about that earlierthat everyone does learn in
their life, right, like justbecause something is different
doesn't mean it's scary orsomething you don't need in your
life.
And so at the end they just,you know, wind up loving him and
he becomes their friend, andthen there's a sleepover episode
, like four or five episodeslater, and they're all just
camping out on the playhousefloor and Roger's, like you know

(44:15):
, wearing pajamas, and it's justlike, yeah, now he's part of
the gang and we love him, and Idon't know.
that, to me, is what this showis.
It's it's community andunderstanding.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Amazing, I love it.
I love it.
Okay, any anything that youwere like when you, when we hit
record today, you were like Igot to make sure I say this
thing that we haven't said yet.

Speaker 3 (44:37):
I don't know.
I was trying not to overthinkit because then I thought, oh,
there's going to be too much inmy head and then I will 100%
forget it if I tell myself notto forget it.
I don't know.
I think the other thing was wewere talking about the Memphis
Milano style, that thataesthetic, and this is personal
to me, like that sort of I, Idon't know.

(45:00):
I had to share my space growingup with a lot of other kids, and
so I remember like first movingout, and it was around the time
that I did discover Peewee'sPlayhouse, and so I was like, oh
right, now I can make thisspace the craziest space that I
want.
No one will judge me and so Irecently had to move back home
and it's been really hardcondensing like all of that

(45:23):
insanity into like one bedroom.
But I don't know.
I think that I took Pee Wee asa way to express myself myself,
and so I've thrown myselfentirely into that.
But it has broadened myperspective on so many things,
like it introduced me to stopmotion and claymation and just a

(45:45):
lot of other actors and artstyles and things that I
wouldn't have known about priorto that, and so it's weird when
you see one thing and then itjust sort of opens up everything
else in your life, and it's astrange feeling, but a wonderful
one.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
That's lovely it is.
It is All right.
I'm gonna see if I can reflectback some of the highlights of
what we spoke about and feelfree to interrupt or add or
nuance or correct as necessary.
So we're talking about Pee WeeHerman, paul Rubens and
especially Pee Wee's Playhousethat we did briefly mention, the

(46:22):
movies as well, and sort of topline.
Top line analysis that I heardfrom you analysis that I heard
from you, mallory is thatPee-wee's Playhouse allowed kids
and adults to think about andto embrace who they really are,

(46:43):
even if that doesn't sort of fitinside the lines of what we've
been told we should be.
So, with Paul Rubens playingPee-wee, should be so with Paul
Rubens playing Pee Wee.
So an adult as a child.
One of the things, one of theeffects of that, was to give

(47:06):
kids and adults in your case,mallory permission to just be
exuberant and joyful andimaginative in ways that our
society has told us we're notsupposed to be, because that's
childish.
So I'm saying this we didn'tsay these words before, but as
I'm saying it now, in kind ofthinking back on it, one of the
gifts of Pee Wee Herman is to bechildlike without being

(47:29):
denigrated for being childish,and I think that's really really
beautiful.
Denigrated for being child-ish,and I think that's really really
beautiful.
Some of the specific ways thatthat happened are to like
anthropomorphize things in ourenvironment, like Cherry and
Globie and Clocky, who had thenames of what they are, which is
totally how kids name theirimaginative play.

(47:50):
So there's also sort of apermission in that.
That, emily noted, is not justpermission but also like
validation, because we have thissense that, like truly
imaginative play would have thechair be named.
You know what did you say?
Winston, st Vincent, millay thethird.

Speaker 1 (48:10):
Well, I also so I had a.
I had a bear named Barry andand, uh, mom always used to say
she thought I was.
She was afraid I was anarcissistic because I named my
baby doll baby Emily and I waslike no, she had dark hair and
light eyes like me.
That's why she was like if shehad had blonde hair or if she
had not looked like me, I wouldhave given her a different name,

(48:32):
probably after someone wholooked like her.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, yeah, totally Totally.
We also.
I talked about the some of theresonance between Pee Wee and
SpongeBob, sort of for a newgeneration, which the animation
didn't appeal to you, mallory,but the writing is actually
pretty fun, at least it was forme when I was in my, you know,
in my twenties, and now, as popculture does, it has informed a

(49:00):
new generation of humor with mykid using the bikini bottom
narrator, as we do with, youknow, with Peewee or with other
influences, where you know thereare certain words that somebody
says it in public.
You said the word Emily.
Remembered a very specificscene that was a lazy joke that

(49:24):
leaned on both misogyny and fatphobia.
That I think opened you know,opened your mind a little bit,
mallory, thinking about thatcharacter and other characters
like her in other shows.
You named the Drew Carey show,but also you noted that that
laziness was something that thewriters outgrew over the course

(49:47):
of the show, which is great.
The actual visual style isappealing, especially for you,
mallory, which is pretty fun andkind of.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
I'm gonna include a link in the show notes to the
Memphis Milano style.
Is that?
Yeah, Because I looked it upafter Mallory had sent us her
bio and I was just like I'm notfamiliar with that term and our
mom owned an art gallery forabout 40 years, and so like,
just like I'm not familiar withthat term and our mom owned an
art gallery for about 40 years,and so like, like I don't, my
fingers aren't on the pulse ofdesign, but I was like I usually

(50:20):
feel like I'm relativelyfamiliar with it and it it's
just fun and it looks likenineties, early nineties, design
90s design.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
I think the place where I will end but it doesn't
have to be the end is to talkabout, really the episode that
you brought.
When I asked what epitomizesthe show like why do you love it
was all about sort of thecoming of age, the learning, the
lesson learning of recognizingthat because someone is
different doesn't mean that theyare a threat and in fact they

(51:01):
could be a friend.
And how powerful it is then tobe accepted if one is on the
other side of that potentialfear because of difference, with
the person, of Roger themonster, who we get to see come
back and wear pajamas at thepajama party camping out on the
floor.
And that message that is thefirst step toward intercultural

(51:23):
competence I heard loud andclear is what made this show so
compelling for you when youfound it.
What did I forget?

Speaker 3 (51:36):
No, I think you summed that up really well, much
better than I would have,because I get very sidetracked,
very easily.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
The only thing I would like to mention is just
how remarkable it is that PaulRubens was able to create this
world that both recreated whatchildren do in their own heads
and also validated and gavepermission when from experience,

(52:04):
I know how rare that is, evenamong people who have studied
childhood development, studiedchildhood development.
That, to me, is is just amazingthat a comedian had such a
remarkable insights into eitherhis own childhood or into the
world of children in general,which I can understand why.

(52:25):
That's part of why there wassuch a brouhaha about the moment
in the movie theater, becausehe worked with children.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
But you know, I and I think there was a struggle to
disconnect a character from aperson, right or yes, a career
from a life.
Those are very distinct thingsto me.
And yet you know, when you'rein the public eye in any way,
your character, what you'reputting forth in a show or to
promote a show or whatever likethat gets tangled up in your
life and people they don't knowwhere to go with that Right.

(52:56):
It probably takes them a longtime to process and it you know
Paul was really harmed by thatRight.
He the show had already endedat that point.
So I think there's this bigmisconception that that's why
the show ended.
It's not, the show was alreadywrapped, but I think he didn't
do any other projects for a verylong time because of that yeah,
and I really it's so sad, it'sreally unfortunate.

(53:20):
Yeah, I mean like he's just sucha talent and such a loving
person.
Like I a couple of years ago,my friends, during the pandemic,
I was living on a farm in themiddle of nowhere, like didn't
drive, couldn't go anywhere, andI was just like deeply
depressed and I had Instagramfriends that I had made because
of Peewee and one of them likegot a group of my friends

(53:43):
together and bought a cameo fromPaul Rubens and it was just
like the sweetest thing and youcan see like the joy in his face
knowing that something hecreated has touched so many
people and I think that to mewas like he.
This is a kind, loving personwho did not get a fair shake and
it's so sad yeah, especially.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
I mean his crime is just not a crime.

Speaker 1 (54:04):
Yeah well, and that's that's also we so often force
people to bifurcate their liveslike we.
We're like you.
You know you can't be a humanbeing with sex drive if you work
with children.
And it's like no, they're.
As long as they're separate,they're separate.

Speaker 3 (54:20):
Yeah, just like in anyone's lives, you have
different versions of yourself.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Yeah, yeah, you know one one.
My last thing that I want tosay about Pee Wee's Playhouse,
that is really.
That just occurred to me.
So Emily and I regularly referto what we're doing as kind of
recognizing and rearranging orunderstanding the furniture of
our brains.
That's the metaphor we use forwhat it is that we're doing,
what it is that pop culture doesit creates furniture in our

(54:48):
brains, and so thinking aboutcherry in Pee Wee's Playhouse as
literal furniture who talks,right, that talks.
And I'm just thinking aboutthat metaphor of like the thing
is the reason we're doing thisproject, because not all of the
furniture of our brain is asbenign or even beneficial as

(55:09):
cherry, like some of it, when ittalks to us, says things like
hey, fatty women don't get to,or it's not actually, it's not
actually creative if you'rebeing influenced, like that's
what some of our furniture istelling us, and so I love having
this like manifestation.

(55:33):
Yeah, this manifestation is theanthropomorphized version of our
metaphor.
That is so joyful.
It's really making me happy, asI'm like as that's clicking
into place in my brain, soanyway.
So it was wonderful to have you.
Mallory Henson is an artist anda thinker and we will link to

(55:55):
her Instagram so you can go seethe artwork that she makes in
our show notes.
So thank you again for joiningus.
I'm so glad that you and Emilyconnected at AWP.

Speaker 3 (56:05):
Oh, me too it's been a blast.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Emily, I think you said you do have at least one
listener comment.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
I have a listener comment that just delighted me.
It's my friend Karen remarkingon the Fifth Element.
She said my dog is named afterLeeloo because she is the
embodiment of love.

Speaker 2 (56:28):
I was like, oh, that's adorable, that kind of
makes it.
I mean, it doesn't make themovie okay.
I think Karen's Leeloo isprobably much closer to being a
perfect being.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
I think you're right there.
So, Tracy, next time you'rebringing a new thing to me.
What are we going to be talkingabout next time?

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Yeah, so next time, next weekend, I'm going to bring
you my deep thoughts about theSpice Girls.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
Oh, that's awesome.
My fashion sense was basicallyforged in the fire of the Spice
Girls.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
Yeah, yeah, I'll be talking a lot about the movie
Spice World, but also just thephenomenon in general of the
Spice Girls, because they wereindeed a phenomenon, were indeed
a phenomenon, indeed, yes, verymuch so.
So that'll be next week, and wewanted to share with our

(57:22):
listeners a new way to reach us.
So tell, tell me about our ournew Facebook page.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
So, yes, we have a new Facebook page deep thoughts
about stupid shit.
It's a S H T.
The Facebook wouldn't let me doan asterisk and I didn't want
to actually spell out shit, soif you do a search for deep
thoughts about stupid Facebook,you should be able to find us.
You can also find links throughour personal pages Emily

(57:49):
Guy-Burken and Tracy Guy-Decker.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
Yeah, just remember, tracy spelled with an I, e and
Burken is B I R K E N Correct.
Yes, so also with an I E ohyeah, we're both with I E Tracy,
with an I E Burken with an I EAll right.
Well, this has been fun.
Thanks again, mallory, emily,I'll see you next week, emily,
I'll see you next week.
See you next week.
Do you like stickers?

(58:13):
Sure, we all do.
If you head over toguygirlsmediacom slash, sign up
and share your address with us,we'll send you a sticker.
It really is that easy, butdon't wait, there's a limited
quantity.
Thanks for listening.
Our theme music is ProfessorUmlaut by Kevin MacLeod from
incompetechcom.
Find full music credits in theshow notes.

(58:35):
Until next time, remember popculture is still culture, and
shouldn't you know what's inyour head?

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Deep Thoughts about Pee-Wee's Playhouse with Mallory Henson