An attorney by training, Noah shares how advocating for himself led him to several important Development roles at Marriott. He explains how taking on challenges created visibility and opportunity, while also sharpening his skillsets and abilities, which were ultimately transferable to different roles. Noah also describes how his intellectual curiosity and competitive drive motivate him through the discomfort of dealing with the risks and challenges he encounters. He explains how he found his mentors and champions and how developing a couple deeper relationships can have a real influence.
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Lan Elliott (00:00):
Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors.
My name is Lan Elliot on behalfof DEI Advisors, which is an
Arizona nonprofit dedicated toempowering personal success.
Today I'm really pleased to haveNoah Silverman here with us, and
he is the Global DevelopmentOfficer for US, and Canada, for
Marriott International.
Welcome, Noah.
Noah Silverman (00:20):
Thank you.
Nice to be here.
Good to see
Lan Elliott (00:22):
you.
I've been looking forward tohaving you on, so really glad
that the day is here.
And Noah, I know you're justabout at your 26th anniversary
at Marriott International, andyou've had multiple roles over
the years.
I think I met you when you werean attorney a few years back.
We won't say how many, but wouldlove to hear a bit about your
(00:43):
journey and some of theinflection points and maybe what
are the factor or factors thatyou think have contributed to
your
Noah Silverman (00:49):
success?
Sure.
At least in terms of inflectionpoints, there were a few
critical ones.
As I look back and it is hard toimagine that it's already been
almost 26 years.
I did I did start my life as alawyer.
I was a Kind of a native of theDC Maryland area.
And after law school, I cameback to came back to DC and
(01:10):
worked at a law firm.
And one of the things I learnedfairly quickly after being at
the firm was that that life atleast on a permanent basis, was
not going to be for me.
So a few years into.
My tenure at the law firm, Istarted looking for other things
that, that I could do.
And really the most, the thekind of initial, significant
inflection point was when I madethe decision to leave private
(01:31):
law practice in DC and joinmarried international back in
1997 in our law department.
And in a li litigation role atthe time, that's what I was
doing in in law practice wascivil litigation.
And so I consider myself anaccidental entrant into the
hospitality business.
I unlike so many people that youmeet in, in hospitality that
(01:52):
knew that it was a field theywanted to go in or a.
Or a an industry they wanted towork in, even as early as
applying and going to college.
All I really knew was that Ididn't wanna leave the DC metro
area when I was looking to leavethe law firm.
And coming to Marriott, 90 97 inour law department was a a
significant kind of initialinflection point for me and a
very happy accident.
(02:13):
In hindsight, obviously I'vebeen here a lot of years and
I've really enjoyed my time inthis industry and taken that
leap to, to come here back in 97was a huge part of that.
Maybe secondly was after havingbeen at Marriott for for a few
years I realized that it wasn'tnecessarily about where I was
practicing law.
It was more the practice of lawthat I didn't really love.
(02:35):
And so to my eternal gratitudeMarriott didn't only offer me an
opportunity to come in and workat Marriott to begin with in our
law department, but also gave mean opportunity.
Once I decided that I no longerreally wanted to be a practicing
lawyer period to move outta thelaw department and move to a
role on the business side.
And I did that back in 2002.
(02:57):
So even that now is more than 20years ago into a role in our
then relatively new global assetmanagement team.
And that was another kind ofsignificant evolution.
I, at that point, I'd been alawyer for almost 10 years.
It's what I'd been trained todo.
It's really all I knew how todo.
I, I'd certainly been told thatlaw degrees were useful for
doing different things.
(03:17):
And there were others that camebefore me at Marriott that had
moved from the law department tothe business side.
But having been given theopportunity to move into that,
in that role on our assetmanagement team, Was another
huge kind of opportunity for meto change the direction of my
career and allow me to go pursuesomething that in hindsight I
(03:39):
enjoyed a heck of a lot morethan the practice of law.
And then maybe just the last oneI'll mention in terms of
inflection point is when I cameinto the development discipline.
So I did a bunch of differentthings in the business side
after leaving the law departmentbetween asset management,
project finance, development,asset management and it was in
2010 that I finally came intothe a role in our development
(04:01):
team leading our US and Canadafull service development team
working for Tony at the time,who was running Tony Capano, our
now CEO O who obviously wasrunning then our global
development organization.
And having been given theopportunity to come into.
Development in 2010 was anothersignificant inflection.
(04:21):
And obviously I've been indevelopment in the years in now,
two different roles ever since.
And have just loved thatopportunity and that role and
have been doing it longer thanI've done any other role that
I've done at Marriott, but havealso enjoyed it more than any
other job.
Lan Elliott (04:36):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
There have been a number ofattorneys that have done really
well at Marriott.
I'm thinking of Arne Sorenson,who actually is also a
litigation attorney, I thinkbefore he joined Marriott.
And obviously had an incrediblecareer.
A and was your last ceo?
Yeah, Arne.
Noah Silverman (04:54):
Arne was a hero to a lot of us for a lot of
ways, but for me in particularhe wore an extra special Kate
because he was really anunbelievable example of someone
who had managed to transitionfrom the practice of law to a
really successful careerleading, ultimately, obviously
leading the business as our ceo.
And I held him up as a personalhero for a lot of reasons that
(05:16):
one included.
Lan Elliott (05:17):
Yeah.
I think he was a hero for reallya lot of people, not just at
Marriott but beyond as well.
Yeah.
One of the things we hear fromleaders is that curiosity is
such a big part of their pathand helps them to grow in their
career.
And we find that as you developin your career, you need
(05:38):
different skills.
And sometimes we encounter askill that we didn't realize was
going to be important to us as aleader, and then we need to fine
tune it or even develop it fromscratch.
Is there something in yourcareer, one of these skills that
you encountered and said, youknow what, I need to work on
this, develop it a little
Noah Silverman (05:56):
bit more.
Just one, or you want a list ofa hundred?
I, why don't you pick one?
I'm trying to learn, I continueto try to learn every day.
There are some things that kindof jump out at me and I just
mentioned back in 2002 when Imade the.
Transition from having practicelaw again for almost a decade to
moving into a role in our assetmanagement team.
And that was a reallysignificant shift for me because
(06:19):
lawyers really do processinformation using words, right?
So if you gave me a hundred pagecontract in the days that I was
working on our franchise team inthe law department, I felt very
highly skilled at being able toread that contract, understand
that contract, interpret itsdifferent provisions, and offer
an opinion on it.
On the other hand, if you gaveme at that point in time, a what
(06:42):
to many people would be a fairlysimple single page spreadsheet
with a bunch of numbers on it,intuiting information from that
one page was not really askillset that I had.
And I really did have to developthat.
I had to think differentlyabout, there were certainly
skills that I brought fromhaving been a lawyer.
To working in asset management,negotiation skills, structuring
(07:04):
skills, being able to thinkabout how to solve problems
which lawyers do a lot and whichbusiness people do a lot, but in
different ways.
But I also had to understand thesort of levers of the business
from a financial perspective andan accounting perspective and a
numbers perspective.
And, at that point my math hadlargely ended maybe my first
year of college.
(07:24):
In fact, when I started taking.
I went to college thinking Imight be an econ major and I
loved Econ 1 0 1, which wasmacroeconomics.
And then when I got to micro,I'm like, oh, there's way too
much math and graphs and otherstuff on here.
I just can't, I can't do it.
I really felt like I had alimited depth when it came to to
really complex math.
And thankfully, a lot of what wedo in our industry is really not
(07:45):
that complex.
But I did have to retrain ormaybe in some ways train for the
first time, the portion of mybrain that, that could learn how
to Look at that spreadsheetwhether it's a proforma or
evaluation, and just understandreally what the numbers were
saying from that page.
And honestly, I've now beendoing this 20 plus years and I
still don't think I'll ever dothat in some ways as well as
(08:06):
some people that came, throughthat financial or accounting
background.
But I've also learned embraceThat the need to learn and
develop there, focus on that,develop that skillset, and then
realize that, oh, there are someother skills that I bring to the
table that maybe some othersthat don't have the legal
background may not have as well.
So it, it will always feel like,I'm carrying or walking with a
(08:28):
bit of a crutch.
Around some of those things butthat's maybe the example that
comes most to mind of one whereI really had to lean in and
learn something new that was wayout of my comfort zone in order
to be effective and good at therole that I was, that I'd been
tru entrusted with at the at thetime.
And still have to think aboutthose things as part of my
(08:49):
current role.
Lan Elliott (08:50):
Yeah, and I think a couple things come to mind when
I hear what you were just sayingabout learning the financial
side of the development role.
I came up on the financial sidedoing more quantitative things,
and then when they finally.
Duck me doing a contract andnegotiating contract, that, for
me was a big learning piece.
Sure.
But I think there are alwaystransferrable skills, right?
(09:11):
Because I ended up using myanalytical skills to read
contracts in an analytical way,and how do we leverage what
rights we have in this document?
And
Noah Silverman (09:20):
I give this advice to people all the time
don't allow people to tell youthat you're not re, you're not
skilled or ready for.
A different kind of role.
It's all in some ways about howyou package yourself, and the
ability to in maybe it's togenericize your skillset so that
it's more translatable into adifferent role than the one that
you were doing.
A, again, that transition fromlot of asset management for me,
(09:42):
or what we called assetmanagement, which is actually
quite different at Marriott thanit is at in a lot of other
Hospitality businesses.
But that negotiation side of thebusiness, that problem solving
side, that understanding, how tohow to sit across the table from
somebody who may be unhappy witha situation and work through and
not being afraid of thatconflict.
Those are all skills that, thatcame from the practice of law
(10:04):
that, that I brought with me tothe business side.
And then needed others todevelop alongside them to be
effective in those roles.
But sometimes it's about, themarketing pitch and what you can
do and how it applies to the jobyou're looking at.
Yeah,
Lan Elliott (10:18):
and Joel Eisman who started that group at Marriott,
has brought, had brought anumber of attorneys that were
very successful in that assetmanagement who went on to
development like Michael Evans,who we've had on the show as
well.
Let's see.
Noah Silverman (10:32):
Yeah, I just watched your your Honor with
you, Michael, the other day.
And it was a little bit of atrip down memory lane, cuz
obviously we were colleagues inthat group at the time.
Lan Elliott (10:39):
Absolutely.
I think Joel saw, the abilityfor the transferrable skills and
it was just really very smart inthe way he looked at it.
Now, we had touched on it alittle bit, but you had
mentioned previously how youenjoy taking on challenges.
Could you share a little bitabout how seeking out challenges
impacted your career?
Noah Silverman (11:00):
Yeah.
It, I'd say it impacted mycareer in a couple of ways.
One I do think that anybodywho's willing to do the or jump
into hard problems and thenfinds ways to help so solve them
tends to get, maybe moreattention.
Than some others.
That, that group that we've nowspent a decent amount of time
talking about, that was my firstnon-legal role here tended to
(11:21):
work on a fair number of prettyit was oh two, so we were,
coming out of the we're reallyin the middle.
When I first joined that groupwas oh two.
So we were in the middle of theof a recession at the time.
There were a lot of challengesin the industry post nine 11 and
in the recession.
That really had started in someways a little earlier, and so
(11:41):
working through a lot of thosechallenges, they tended to be
high profile.
Issues and finding solutions tothem, especially when those
solutions were maybe the leastbad outcome as opposed to one
that anybody really is superhappy with.
And then helping the company tounderstand.
That that, that was the rightpath to take it.
(12:02):
It created visibility to thingsI was working on that old, that
definitely had impact on mycareer longer term because of
the challenge.
And so I think I think beingwilling to embrace.
Challenge can be rewarding inand of itself as well.
But in this case it wasrewarding in terms of creating
visibility and opportunity forme, longer time, longer term.
(12:24):
And then there is thedevelopment that comes.
I think from taking onchallenges and working on hard
stuff, it just sharpens your.
It sharpens your skillset andyour abilities in ways that
ultimately I think, are again,transferable to multiple
different opportunities androles.
I've done a bunch of differentthings in my time at Marriott.
(12:45):
I think each of those differentjobs has given me a perspective
that has helped me learn aboutLook through different lenses
and learn different things that,that serve as building blocks
for additional challenges oropportunities that may come
going forward.
It's true of, I think,leadership and running, running
the team as well.
(13:05):
But also true of the more kindof specific projects and other
things that you might be workingon within your team.
Yep.
It also means
Lan Elliott (13:13):
that you're always learning new things as you're
moving from one thing toanother.
Just that importance of a growthimportance of a growth mindset
where you're continuing tolearn.
Yeah.
Noah Silverman (13:21):
I think, I've always been driven by at least
some degree of intellectualcuriosity.
And one of the re one of thethings actually I realized
about, or one of the motivatingfactors I should say about why I
ultimately didn't wanna continueto practice as a lawyer is that.
As lawyers get more seasoned,generally speaking, you are
being, paid for your expertisein a particular area.
(13:43):
And so I don't think there's toomany people that really want to
be working with a lawyer that,20 years into a career is doing
something for the first time.
With tenure, years should come.
Expertise on that side.
And yet there was this mindset,and maybe it's true of other
places as well, but certainlywas true at Marriott.
There was a mindset at Marriottthat having different roles
(14:05):
broadened you as a potentialleader in a way that.
Was gonna create opportunity.
And so that, what I realized isthat played more naturally to
just me as a person, that Ididn't really I would start to
lose motivation if I felt like Iwas gaining a certain level of
expertise in a topic.
And as soon as I got closeenough to, I never, I obviously
(14:27):
never got to perfect knowledgeabout anything.
But as I got to whatever the.
Threshold was, there was alwaysa threshold at which I felt I
know enough about this.
I want a new challenge.
So let me think about goingsomewhere else where I'm gonna
take my knowledge level, maybefrom 85% back to 45%, and then
start learning and growingagain.
(14:48):
And it seemed like there weremore opportunities for me to do
that and challenge myself thatwere rewarding to that kind of
intellectual curiosity indifferent business roles than
would've been the case had Istayed.
As a lawyer.
And so that just was reallyappealing to me.
The opportunity to continuallyseek out things that I didn't
know as much about but motivatedme to learn and come up that
(15:11):
learning curve and kept meengaged and ultimately more
satisfied in my job and careerpath than I otherwise might have
been.
Just stagnant in, in one rolewhere maybe I had perfect
knowledge, just no longerfeeding that, that kind of
curiosity that I've got.
Lan Elliott (15:27):
It definitely feeds into being comfortable, being
uncomfortable.
That concept where if you'realways growing, you're always
learning new things and lookingfor a new challenge, that's
something that you need to beokay with not being the expert
always.
And that there are opportunitieswhen you're learning new things.
But obviously take taking on newchallenges.
Taking on new roles means you'realso taking calculated risks.
(15:50):
So can you share an examplewhere you've successfully.
Taken a risk and maybe how youprepared yourself mentally to do
that.
Noah Silverman (15:59):
Yeah I feel like I'm continuing to talk about
that first of the threeinflection points I talked
about, or the second, of thethree inflection points, which
was the move away from, my 10years of law practice to to a
role in our in our, on ourbusiness side.
But that, that felt like a hugerisk to me at the time.
I had investment in in lawschool, quite literally time and
(16:20):
money in training me to be alawyer.
I also had investment in thenumber of years that I'd spent
developing my career as alawyer.
And all I really knew at thatpoint, after college, three
years of law school and almost10 years of doing it, was that I
actually I knew I was prettygood at it.
I actually did not.
I was not, Failing in anyrespect as a lawyer.
(16:40):
I actually think I was a prettygood lawyer.
But I also knew I wasn't happydoing it.
And there, there came that pointwhere I really felt like it was
important to find my way intosomething that I enjoyed it.
It was no longer about chasingwhatever the next important
career.
Door opening opportunity mightbe and more about reaping some
(17:00):
of the rewards of the investmentthat you've made to do something
that you might actually like andenjoy.
And and so it felt like a hugerisk to, to move to the to that
asset management team because Iwasn't sure that I'd be able to
figure out, how a financialmodel works.
I wasn't sure that I would besuccessful in looking at deals
through a through a businesslens as opposed to looking at
(17:22):
them through.
A legal lens.
And there are, there were asmany examples as they were.
There weren't too many exampleslike Arne obviously.
But there were other examples oflawyers that had transitioned
out.
But there were also examples oflawyers that had transitioned
out successfully, I should say.
But there were other examples oflawyers that had transitioned
out to business rolesunsuccessfully, and then had to
rebound back into legal careersand.
(17:45):
I definitely didn't want to dothat.
So it, it felt like a huge riskto do that.
I felt much more kind of a cwhen I first joined that, that
team, in terms of being on amuch deeper learning curve than
maybe I had even anticipated.
And it took a while to, to, feellike I was settling in and that
and gained some confidence backthat I really didn't have any
(18:05):
issues having when I was When Iwas practicing law.
And ultimately obviously it paidoff and I did settle in.
I learned a lot.
I was given opportunities afterthat, that I wouldn't have had.
But for having, making thatmove.
But it definitely took awillingness to take a leap into
a very uncomfortable place andchallenge myself and see if it
was gonna give me the thingsthat I was looking for.
(18:28):
And thankfully in, in that case,it really did.
Did you
Lan Elliott (18:31):
have days where you, at the beginning, where you
went home and you went, oh, Idon't know about this?
Or do you have your own internalpep talk?
Like how do you how do youmentally get from that place of
where you think maybe.
I don't know if this was a goodidea to persevering to get to
the other side.
Noah Silverman (18:49):
And maybe in some ways, thankfully I'm
motivated more by the discomfortthan I am uncomfortable with the
discomfort, if that makes anysense at all.
So I I find that the challengein the discomfort motivating
because I, obviously, I don'tlike to fail and I think I've
got a bit of a competitive drivein me as well, and so the
(19:12):
discomfort of that risk andchallenge was helpful in keeping
me engaged and motivated anddriven.
That's not a, that's not.
True a hundred percent of thetime though, in fairness.
So there were certainly timesand I won't I won't divulge the
specifics of the review that Igot the first year that I was
(19:34):
working for Joel and assetmanagement.
But it was different, let's say,than the reviews that I'd grown
accustomed to getting at yearend as a lawyer and I did.
Kind of have moments after thatwhere I said to myself, did I do
the right thing?
And I'm, and am I on a rightpath?
Am I on the right path to tosucceed in, in, having taken
this leap a year ago?
(19:54):
Or do I need to think about,maybe being less happy doing
what I'm doing, but maybe betterat what I'm doing?
And going back to the old role,and again, thankfully I chose
the.
I chose the, I don't think I'mgonna get fired, but maybe it's
gonna take me a little bitlonger to get there.
And I'm so much happier doingwhat I'm doing now that there
(20:16):
was, there was no no seriousconsideration really to, to
going backwards at that point.
But yeah you just, I just had tofight through those those
moments when they came.
Yeah.
And
Lan Elliott (20:27):
the industry's richer for you doing that,
obviously.
Noah Silverman (20:29):
I don't know about that, but thank you for
for saying so.
Lan Elliott (20:32):
I think so.
Having had the opportunity towork with you let's talk a
little bit about building anetwork, cuz obviously you've
got a really big network, butfor a lot of people, networking
isn't something that's verycomfortable.
How have you developed yournetwork and how do you network
in a way that suits yourpersonality?
Noah Silverman (20:50):
Yeah.
So I start with the last part ofthat question, which is, how do
I do it in a way that suits mypersonality?
I do feel like I am a I don'tfeel this way.
I know I am introvert.
And so I, I have to approach thebusiness world, both looking at
relationships around thehallways of Marriott, but also
our relationships with ourowners and franchisees, which
are really important as Workingin our development function.
(21:11):
A as an extrovert, right?
You just you you're theintrovert in an extroverted
world.
And so I, I do it in ways thatI'm comfortable with, but I also
try to do it in ways that feelauthentic and natural to me.
And for a lot of the early partof my career, the, before I
really took the developmentrole, I was I was focused on, my
network was really more of aninternal network within
(21:32):
Marriott.
A lot of my jobs were werefocused on engaging with other
Marriott associates.
And so that networking was totry to connect with my coworkers
in ways that helped, would.
One people that I liked,thankfully in, in our company
and in our industry, I find alot of people that I like.
So I think building a networkwith people that you enjoy
(21:53):
spending time with and trusttheir feedback is maybe the most
important aspect of that.
And then secondarily in thoseearly days, it was also about
finding people that I felt.
Might be able to help guide mein certain respects around
career opportunities.
And a few of the jobs that I gotpost law department came because
I had reached out to.
(22:14):
Leaders of those teams andexpressed interest in learning
more about them.
And and potentially if therewere ever an opening working on
those teams and some of thepeople in those shops, Joel, you
mentioned who hired me into thatasset management role but others
as well.
Eventually Tony as well.
When Tony hired me indevelopment.
Back in 2010, not only were animportant part of my network,
(22:37):
but were important kind ofchampions and mentors to me as I
was working through differentaspects of my career.
But it was important.
It was important to me to findpeople that I felt like I could
trust and that I connected withand that That there was you
could also develop a, afriendship with beyond just
professional guidance and advicethey may be willing to give.
(22:58):
Yeah.
It's a wonderful
Lan Elliott (22:59):
industry where I think a lot of people will meet.
For business reasons and thenbecome friends afterwards.
So I don't know if that happensin every industry but I do find
it a lot in ours.
Let's talk a little bit aboutmentors and champions, cuz you,
you touched on it a second agoand you had mentioned Joel, but
I'm curious, how important is itto find champions and mentors
(23:20):
and how do you go about it?
Noah Silverman (23:24):
I think it's, I think it's really important.
It's hard to describe astep-by-step guide into, making
it happen, finding mentors andchampions.
But I was given a piece ofadvice when I was career advice
when I was still at the lawfirm.
So very early in my career postlaw school from one of the
(23:44):
partners at the time who told methat.
As in as important it is, as itis to have others that are
looking out for you and to be onradar screens and things for
when there's opportunities thatpresent themselves there, there
really is nobody who will careabout your career more than you
are gonna care about it.
And I've carried that advicewith me through my entire
(24:06):
career.
And in fact, I tell people it's,I think it's some of the best
career advice I was ever givenis recognize your own role.
In that, in, in your careerbecause just naturally you're
gonna care about it more thananyone else might.
At the same time, you know thatdecisions that are gonna be made
that could involve you, whetherit's a new opportunity for a
(24:26):
different role within a bigcompany or a promotion within
that company, that it's gonnatake somebody.
Being willing to stand up andadvocate for you while you're
also advocating for yourself tomake those kinds of things
happen.
So while while I think it'sincredibly important and maybe
singularly important at the topof the order for you to be
(24:49):
willing to be an advocate foryourself, having mentors and
champions is maybe next in termsof.
Significance when you thinkabout the roles that they will
play in those opportunities, inthose promotions and I can point
to multiple instances in mybackground here at Marriott
where that's played out to betrue.
In terms of how to go aboutfinding mentors and champions
(25:10):
it's maybe a corollary of thequestion you just asked about
how to build a network.
I see it as two sides of thesame coin.
Find people that you can trustexpress to them.
What you are interested in, tryto build a relationship so that
they know you and understand youand vice versa.
And and maybe also recognizethat while, a broad array of
(25:35):
relationships are reallyimportant it's.
Deeper relationships with acouple, maybe a couple people
that have an ability to have areal influence.
Maybe more important than try,than having surface
relationships with kind surfacelevel relationships with
everyone.
So I was a significantbeneficiary of some folks along
the way that really took aninterest in me.
(25:55):
And then thought of me whenopportunities presented
themselves and in part because Iwas in their ear telling them
about things I was interested indoing, but also because they
were willing to be supporters ofmine.
And it was a significant factorin the different roles that I
was given a chance to to tryover the course of my career.
Lan Elliott (26:14):
I love that.
And I wanna go a little bitdeeper actually, cuz you just
touched on that you were intheir ear when new opportunities
came about.
Can we talk a little bit aboutadvocating for ourselves?
Because you've already startedto allude to it, but I wanted to
go a bit deeper into it becauseone of the things you're really
good at doing is when you see anopportunity that you're
(26:35):
interested in.
You'll go and talk to someoneand express your interests.
And not everybody does that, andnot everyone has the confidence
to do that.
In fact, there's ageneralization that women are
not very good at advocating foryour, for themselves or holding
up their hand for an opportunitythey'd be interested in.
I know I haven't been as good asit at it as I should have been.
Can you share how you've doneit?
How have you a advocated foryourself when you see
(26:57):
opportunities you're interestedin?
Noah Silverman (26:59):
Yeah.
And I'll confess, it wasn'tsuper comfortable for me either.
Again, and give me a MyersBriggs test.
I'm definitely gonna come up onthe introverted side of the ie.
Part of that equation.
And yet you just have to do it.
As I as I mentioned I knocked onsome doors to express interest
in different roles along the wayso that people could think of me
(27:21):
if and when there wereopportunities, on their team.
And I helped them understood whoI was as a person and what I
understood, what I thought myskills were and how I thought I
could be an asset for.
For them on their teams ifopportunities presented
themselves.
And there are at least twooccasions, if not three of the
multiple jobs that I've hadsince having come to Mart where
(27:44):
that was a direct that played adirect role in me being given
The the opportunity to competefor that job at the end of the
day.
By no means did it result in megetting the job, but certainly
it was having been in their earputting myself on their radar
screen.
Got me in a consideration set sothat when I a applied for those
(28:04):
roles, I don't think I otherwisemight have been thought of.
And so I did have to reach out,out of my comfort zone and put
myself out there as havinginterest in it and it paid
dividends.
Even when it's not easy, again,gets back to that, that that
career advice that I got earlyin my days at the law firm, that
nobody is gonna care more aboutyour career.
(28:25):
Then you're gonna care about it.
And what that translates into isis taking some responsibility
for your career.
By all means.
I am a believer that if you do agreat job at your job and go
above and beyond, that will getnoticed.
And that will and should resultrightfully in opportunities
coming your way, but it will notresult in every opportunity that
(28:46):
could come your way.
If coupled with doing a greatjob and going above and beyond
and making sure that you areshowing up on those radar
screens, you're also willing toput yourself out there and put
yourself into the ears of peoplewho have the ability to
influence your career andletting them know that about who
you are and what you want to do,and what your aspirations are.
(29:07):
I think that's a reallyimportant role for leaders
generally to understand thehope, dreams, and aspirations of
everybody on their team.
But I also think that there's aresponsibility that comes to
that for others around theorganization the people that are
on those teams to convey thatproactively to their leaders,
but maybe equally as importantto people who aren't their
(29:29):
leaders, especially if they maybe thinking as I was at
different times in my careerabout.
About different roles in thecompany and different
departments than the one that Iwas in.
Lan Elliott (29:38):
Yeah, I think that's I love so much about what
you said.
One of them was, be really goodat your job, right?
Because people are gonna noticethat, but then that's not always
going to give you all the
Noah Silverman (29:48):
options.
Yeah.
That's table stakes, right?
Because fall falling below beingreally good at your job, bad
things happen.
Yes.
But when you're really good atyour job, then you are then
you're doing the.
The things that, that presentthe, it's the opportunity for
opportunity, right?
You've done the task number one,which is just be great at what
you're supposed to do.
(30:09):
But you do have to go beyond
Lan Elliott (30:10):
that.
Yeah, and I think a lot ofpeople who work really hard,
they do a great job, but thenthey think that's going to be
enough and that things willnaturally happen and some things
do naturally happen, but I dothink as you start to get
towards the top of the pyramidand there are fewer and fewer
opportunities, everyone's tablestakes, as you said, doing a
good job.
So if you want those roles, andas you get more senior, there
(30:31):
are fewer of them, you need tohold your hand up and ask for it
and advocate for yourself.
Absolutely.
If you're gonna be on that list,absolutely.
Yep.
So one of my favorite questionson our interview series is what
advice would you give to youryounger self?
And I don't know if it's theadvice that, that you just
(30:52):
mentioned earlier, but I'mcurious, what would you tell
your younger self?
Noah Silverman (30:56):
Thankfully I had somebody else to give me that
little that little diddy ofadvice at the time.
I did, I wouldn't have to giveit to myself.
But look, I I spent a number ofyears post law school being
pretty unhappy doing what I wasdoing, progressively less
unhappy.
I was I liked what I was doingat Mariet a lot more than I
liked what I was doing at thelaw firm.
(31:16):
But I was about 10 years into acareer and really had been in
three different jobs, twodifferent employers, and really
wasn't enjoying what I wasdoing.
But was nonetheless workingpretty hard at it as well and
trying to be successful at it.
And and I, I.
Because I eventually found a wayout of that into jobs that
(31:36):
progressively gave me anincreasing level of job
satisfaction, personalsatisfaction, and happiness.
I guess maybe the advice that Iwould give to my younger self,
if it, if I caught me in thatwindow of 10 years there is
that, it's, you're on the path.
It's a process.
And and realize that.
(31:57):
That that path and that processis part of what will lead you
into a place that, I can't desdescribe as every day as is
jumping for joy and zen levelsof just off the charts, levels
of zen and happiness.
But I really do love what I do.
I have loved.
The time that I've spent atMarriott, especially after I
(32:19):
transitioned at a law, and Idon't think honestly those
opportunities present themselvesto me had I not done the things
that I had done before.
Which doesn't mean that somebodyelse couldn't have ended up in
the same job coming up through adifferent path they did before
me.
But in, in my case, it was thatpath that led me to a place of
job satisfaction, professionalsatisfaction, personal.
(32:40):
Happiness and growth.
And so maybe that's what I tellmyself in my younger days is,
just realize that it's part ofthe process and you're on the
path and keep working hard andkeep doing a great job and
realize that things will, there,there is a payoff for this for
this investment of time anddevelopment that you're making
in yourself, even in da, even indays where it feels like it's a
(33:02):
grind.
And I think by the way it's alittle bit of a challenge at
times with with the youngergeneration.
I have two kids that are intheir twenties.
Early twenties.
I think that sort of careerprogression, patience maybe is
not the the single greatesttrait of the next generation.
But I do think that investmentis an understanding that sort of
(33:24):
good things come to those thatnot just weight, but are
investing their time anddevelopment is an important
lesson for it would've been animportant lesson for me.
At, in my early twenties, and Ithink it's an important one
today.
That's wonderful.
Lan Elliott (33:40):
As I expected, we are running out of time because
I know there's so much greatcontent for you to share, which
you have done today.
That's your nice
Noah Silverman (33:48):
way of saying I'm really talkative, Lynn, but
I appreciate you giving me theopportunity to chat.
Lan Elliott (33:53):
I think there's been so much great content that
you shared that I wanted you tojust go deeper and share more.
But I'd love if you could shareone final piece of advice just
keeping in mind that our missionat D.
D e I advisors is aroundempowering personal success.
What advice would you offer towomen and underrepresented
groups who are looking toadvance their career?
(34:14):
One final.
Nugget,
Noah Silverman (34:17):
I can't say the best career.
The best piece of career adviceI ever got was was to know that
you're gonna care more aboutyour career than anyone else.
And as a result of that investyourself in making, in, in
helping to facilitate outcomesfor yourself that you are, that
you're searching.
So putting yourself out there,building networks, finding
champions and mentors, doing thethings that we've, spent the
(34:39):
last several minutes.
Talking about I, I can't saythat's the best piece of career
advice I've had I've ever gottenwithout saying that's it.
I really do believe that's thebest thing that I can convey as
well which is to recognize thatand invest in yourself and do
the things necessary to.
Put yourself out there evenwhere it's uncomfortable.
(35:02):
Without, by the way, beingsomebody, I'm not trying to tell
people, be somebody you're not.
Create a kind of inauthenticwork version of yourself.
That is not the advice that Iwould give do it in a way that.
Maybe you are leastuncomfortable with, if it's
uncomfortable for you but in away that, that feels like it's
still true to who you are andauthentic to who you are as a
(35:22):
person.
But be willing to to getuncomfortable a bit in order to
advocate for yourself and beyour own champion for first,
because I think that that willhelp with all the other pieces.
That are also important to beinghaving a long and successful.
Career and it never stops, bythe way.
(35:42):
I still feel that's, that,that's true.
Even with the number of yearsthat I have, continue to be
curious, continue to work hard,continue to do a great job
continue to care about yourselfand others and and continue to,
in investing yourself in waysthat, that hopefully continue to
allow you to learn, grow and getadditional opportunities.
Lan Elliott (36:05):
Thank you as a fellow introvert, I love the way
you stated that we can stillmake headway even though it's
uncomfortable.
You just lean into that a littlebit.
So yeah, thank you very muchNoah.
Really appreciate your sharingyour insights and your journey
with our audience, and it'sreally my pleasure.
Thank you.
And for our audience, if youenjoyed this interview with
(36:26):
Noah, I hope you'll go to ourwebsite, d e i advisors.org for
more interviews with hospitalityleaders.
Thank
you.
Hello and welcome to D E I Advisors.
My name is Lan Elliot on behalfof DEI Advisors, which is an
Arizona nonprofit dedicated toempowering personal success.
Today I'm really pleased to haveNoah Silverman here with us, and
he is the Global DevelopmentOfficer for US, and Canada, for
Marriott International.
Welcome, Noah.
Noah Silverman (00:20):
Thank you.
Nice to be here.
Good to see
Lan Elliott (00:22):
you.
I've been looking forward tohaving you on, so really glad
that the day is here.
And Noah, I know you're justabout at your 26th anniversary
at Marriott International, andyou've had multiple roles over
the years.
I think I met you when you werean attorney a few years back.
We won't say how many, but wouldlove to hear a bit about your
(00:43):
journey and some of theinflection points and maybe what
are the factor or factors thatyou think have contributed to
your
Noah Silverman (00:49):
success?
Sure.
At least in terms of inflectionpoints, there were a few
critical ones.
As I look back and it is hard toimagine that it's already been
almost 26 years.
I did I did start my life as alawyer.
I was a Kind of a native of theDC Maryland area.
And after law school, I cameback to came back to DC and
(01:10):
worked at a law firm.
And one of the things I learnedfairly quickly after being at
the firm was that that life atleast on a permanent basis, was
not going to be for me.
So a few years into.
My tenure at the law firm, Istarted looking for other things
that, that I could do.
And really the most, the thekind of initial, significant
inflection point was when I madethe decision to leave private
(01:31):
law practice in DC and joinmarried international back in
1997 in our law department.
And in a li litigation role atthe time, that's what I was
doing in in law practice wascivil litigation.
And so I consider myself anaccidental entrant into the
hospitality business.
I unlike so many people that youmeet in, in hospitality that
(01:52):
knew that it was a field theywanted to go in or a.
Or a an industry they wanted towork in, even as early as
applying and going to college.
All I really knew was that Ididn't wanna leave the DC metro
area when I was looking to leavethe law firm.
And coming to Marriott, 90 97 inour law department was a a
significant kind of initialinflection point for me and a
very happy accident.
(02:13):
In hindsight, obviously I'vebeen here a lot of years and
I've really enjoyed my time inthis industry and taken that
leap to, to come here back in 97was a huge part of that.
Maybe secondly was after havingbeen at Marriott for for a few
years I realized that it wasn'tnecessarily about where I was
practicing law.
It was more the practice of lawthat I didn't really love.
(02:35):
And so to my eternal gratitudeMarriott didn't only offer me an
opportunity to come in and workat Marriott to begin with in our
law department, but also gave mean opportunity.
Once I decided that I no longerreally wanted to be a practicing
lawyer period to move outta thelaw department and move to a
role on the business side.
And I did that back in 2002.
(02:57):
So even that now is more than 20years ago into a role in our
then relatively new global assetmanagement team.
And that was another kind ofsignificant evolution.
I, at that point, I'd been alawyer for almost 10 years.
It's what I'd been trained todo.
It's really all I knew how todo.
I, I'd certainly been told thatlaw degrees were useful for
doing different things.
(03:17):
And there were others that camebefore me at Marriott that had
moved from the law department tothe business side.
But having been given theopportunity to move into that,
in that role on our assetmanagement team, Was another
huge kind of opportunity for meto change the direction of my
career and allow me to go pursuesomething that in hindsight I
(03:39):
enjoyed a heck of a lot morethan the practice of law.
And then maybe just the last oneI'll mention in terms of
inflection point is when I cameinto the development discipline.
So I did a bunch of differentthings in the business side
after leaving the law departmentbetween asset management,
project finance, development,asset management and it was in
2010 that I finally came intothe a role in our development
(04:01):
team leading our US and Canadafull service development team
working for Tony at the time,who was running Tony Capano, our
now CEO O who obviously wasrunning then our global
development organization.
And having been given theopportunity to come into.
Development in 2010 was anothersignificant inflection.
(04:21):
And obviously I've been indevelopment in the years in now,
two different roles ever since.
And have just loved thatopportunity and that role and
have been doing it longer thanI've done any other role that
I've done at Marriott, but havealso enjoyed it more than any
other job.
Lan Elliott (04:36):
Yeah, I think it's interesting.
There have been a number ofattorneys that have done really
well at Marriott.
I'm thinking of Arne Sorenson,who actually is also a
litigation attorney, I thinkbefore he joined Marriott.
And obviously had an incrediblecareer.
A and was your last ceo?
Yeah, Arne.
Noah Silverman (04:54):
Arne was a hero to a lot of us for a lot of
ways, but for me in particularhe wore an extra special Kate
because he was really anunbelievable example of someone
who had managed to transitionfrom the practice of law to a
really successful careerleading, ultimately, obviously
leading the business as our ceo.
And I held him up as a personalhero for a lot of reasons that
(05:16):
one included.
Lan Elliott (05:17):
Yeah.
I think he was a hero for reallya lot of people, not just at
Marriott but beyond as well.
Yeah.
One of the things we hear fromleaders is that curiosity is
such a big part of their pathand helps them to grow in their
career.
And we find that as you developin your career, you need
(05:38):
different skills.
And sometimes we encounter askill that we didn't realize was
going to be important to us as aleader, and then we need to fine
tune it or even develop it fromscratch.
Is there something in yourcareer, one of these skills that
you encountered and said, youknow what, I need to work on
this, develop it a little
Noah Silverman (05:56):
bit more.
Just one, or you want a list ofa hundred?
I, why don't you pick one?
I'm trying to learn, I continueto try to learn every day.
There are some things that kindof jump out at me and I just
mentioned back in 2002 when Imade the.
Transition from having practicelaw again for almost a decade to
moving into a role in our assetmanagement team.
And that was a reallysignificant shift for me because
(06:19):
lawyers really do processinformation using words, right?
So if you gave me a hundred pagecontract in the days that I was
working on our franchise team inthe law department, I felt very
highly skilled at being able toread that contract, understand
that contract, interpret itsdifferent provisions, and offer
an opinion on it.
On the other hand, if you gaveme at that point in time, a what
(06:42):
to many people would be a fairlysimple single page spreadsheet
with a bunch of numbers on it,intuiting information from that
one page was not really askillset that I had.
And I really did have to developthat.
I had to think differentlyabout, there were certainly
skills that I brought fromhaving been a lawyer.
To working in asset management,negotiation skills, structuring
(07:04):
skills, being able to thinkabout how to solve problems
which lawyers do a lot and whichbusiness people do a lot, but in
different ways.
But I also had to understand thesort of levers of the business
from a financial perspective andan accounting perspective and a
numbers perspective.
And, at that point my math hadlargely ended maybe my first
year of college.
(07:24):
In fact, when I started taking.
I went to college thinking Imight be an econ major and I
loved Econ 1 0 1, which wasmacroeconomics.
And then when I got to micro,I'm like, oh, there's way too
much math and graphs and otherstuff on here.
I just can't, I can't do it.
I really felt like I had alimited depth when it came to to
really complex math.
And thankfully, a lot of what wedo in our industry is really not
(07:45):
that complex.
But I did have to retrain ormaybe in some ways train for the
first time, the portion of mybrain that, that could learn how
to Look at that spreadsheetwhether it's a proforma or
evaluation, and just understandreally what the numbers were
saying from that page.
And honestly, I've now beendoing this 20 plus years and I
still don't think I'll ever dothat in some ways as well as
(08:06):
some people that came, throughthat financial or accounting
background.
But I've also learned embraceThat the need to learn and
develop there, focus on that,develop that skillset, and then
realize that, oh, there are someother skills that I bring to the
table that maybe some othersthat don't have the legal
background may not have as well.
So it, it will always feel like,I'm carrying or walking with a
(08:28):
bit of a crutch.
Around some of those things butthat's maybe the example that
comes most to mind of one whereI really had to lean in and
learn something new that was wayout of my comfort zone in order
to be effective and good at therole that I was, that I'd been
tru entrusted with at the at thetime.
And still have to think aboutthose things as part of my
(08:49):
current role.
Lan Elliott (08:50):
Yeah, and I think a couple things come to mind when
I hear what you were just sayingabout learning the financial
side of the development role.
I came up on the financial sidedoing more quantitative things,
and then when they finally.
Duck me doing a contract andnegotiating contract, that, for
me was a big learning piece.
Sure.
But I think there are alwaystransferrable skills, right?
(09:11):
Because I ended up using myanalytical skills to read
contracts in an analytical way,and how do we leverage what
rights we have in this document?
And
Noah Silverman (09:20):
I give this advice to people all the time
don't allow people to tell youthat you're not re, you're not
skilled or ready for.
A different kind of role.
It's all in some ways about howyou package yourself, and the
ability to in maybe it's togenericize your skillset so that
it's more translatable into adifferent role than the one that
you were doing.
A, again, that transition fromlot of asset management for me,
(09:42):
or what we called assetmanagement, which is actually
quite different at Marriott thanit is at in a lot of other
Hospitality businesses.
But that negotiation side of thebusiness, that problem solving
side, that understanding, how tohow to sit across the table from
somebody who may be unhappy witha situation and work through and
not being afraid of thatconflict.
Those are all skills that, thatcame from the practice of law
(10:04):
that, that I brought with me tothe business side.
And then needed others todevelop alongside them to be
effective in those roles.
But sometimes it's about, themarketing pitch and what you can
do and how it applies to the jobyou're looking at.
Yeah,
Lan Elliott (10:18):
and Joel Eisman who started that group at Marriott,
has brought, had brought anumber of attorneys that were
very successful in that assetmanagement who went on to
development like Michael Evans,who we've had on the show as
well.
Let's see.
Noah Silverman (10:32):
Yeah, I just watched your your Honor with
you, Michael, the other day.
And it was a little bit of atrip down memory lane, cuz
obviously we were colleagues inthat group at the time.
Lan Elliott (10:39):
Absolutely.
I think Joel saw, the abilityfor the transferrable skills and
it was just really very smart inthe way he looked at it.
Now, we had touched on it alittle bit, but you had
mentioned previously how youenjoy taking on challenges.
Could you share a little bitabout how seeking out challenges
impacted your career?
Noah Silverman (11:00):
Yeah.
It, I'd say it impacted mycareer in a couple of ways.
One I do think that anybodywho's willing to do the or jump
into hard problems and thenfinds ways to help so solve them
tends to get, maybe moreattention.
Than some others.
That, that group that we've nowspent a decent amount of time
talking about, that was my firstnon-legal role here tended to
(11:21):
work on a fair number of prettyit was oh two, so we were,
coming out of the we're reallyin the middle.
When I first joined that groupwas oh two.
So we were in the middle of theof a recession at the time.
There were a lot of challengesin the industry post nine 11 and
in the recession.
That really had started in someways a little earlier, and so
(11:41):
working through a lot of thosechallenges, they tended to be
high profile.
Issues and finding solutions tothem, especially when those
solutions were maybe the leastbad outcome as opposed to one
that anybody really is superhappy with.
And then helping the company tounderstand.
That that, that was the rightpath to take it.
(12:02):
It created visibility to thingsI was working on that old, that
definitely had impact on mycareer longer term because of
the challenge.
And so I think I think beingwilling to embrace.
Challenge can be rewarding inand of itself as well.
But in this case it wasrewarding in terms of creating
visibility and opportunity forme, longer time, longer term.
(12:24):
And then there is thedevelopment that comes.
I think from taking onchallenges and working on hard
stuff, it just sharpens your.
It sharpens your skillset andyour abilities in ways that
ultimately I think, are again,transferable to multiple
different opportunities androles.
I've done a bunch of differentthings in my time at Marriott.
(12:45):
I think each of those differentjobs has given me a perspective
that has helped me learn aboutLook through different lenses
and learn different things that,that serve as building blocks
for additional challenges oropportunities that may come
going forward.
It's true of, I think,leadership and running, running
the team as well.
(13:05):
But also true of the more kindof specific projects and other
things that you might be workingon within your team.
Yep.
It also means
Lan Elliott (13:13):
that you're always learning new things as you're
moving from one thing toanother.
Just that importance of a growthimportance of a growth mindset
where you're continuing tolearn.
Yeah.
Noah Silverman (13:21):
I think, I've always been driven by at least
some degree of intellectualcuriosity.
And one of the re one of thethings actually I realized
about, or one of the motivatingfactors I should say about why I
ultimately didn't wanna continueto practice as a lawyer is that.
As lawyers get more seasoned,generally speaking, you are
being, paid for your expertisein a particular area.
(13:43):
And so I don't think there's toomany people that really want to
be working with a lawyer that,20 years into a career is doing
something for the first time.
With tenure, years should come.
Expertise on that side.
And yet there was this mindset,and maybe it's true of other
places as well, but certainlywas true at Marriott.
There was a mindset at Marriottthat having different roles
(14:05):
broadened you as a potentialleader in a way that.
Was gonna create opportunity.
And so that, what I realized isthat played more naturally to
just me as a person, that Ididn't really I would start to
lose motivation if I felt like Iwas gaining a certain level of
expertise in a topic.
And as soon as I got closeenough to, I never, I obviously
(14:27):
never got to perfect knowledgeabout anything.
But as I got to whatever the.
Threshold was, there was alwaysa threshold at which I felt I
know enough about this.
I want a new challenge.
So let me think about goingsomewhere else where I'm gonna
take my knowledge level, maybefrom 85% back to 45%, and then
start learning and growingagain.
(14:48):
And it seemed like there weremore opportunities for me to do
that and challenge myself thatwere rewarding to that kind of
intellectual curiosity indifferent business roles than
would've been the case had Istayed.
As a lawyer.
And so that just was reallyappealing to me.
The opportunity to continuallyseek out things that I didn't
know as much about but motivatedme to learn and come up that
(15:11):
learning curve and kept meengaged and ultimately more
satisfied in my job and careerpath than I otherwise might have
been.
Just stagnant in, in one rolewhere maybe I had perfect
knowledge, just no longerfeeding that, that kind of
curiosity that I've got.
Lan Elliott (15:27):
It definitely feeds into being comfortable, being
uncomfortable.
That concept where if you'realways growing, you're always
learning new things and lookingfor a new challenge, that's
something that you need to beokay with not being the expert
always.
And that there are opportunitieswhen you're learning new things.
But obviously take taking on newchallenges.
Taking on new roles means you'realso taking calculated risks.
(15:50):
So can you share an examplewhere you've successfully.
Taken a risk and maybe how youprepared yourself mentally to do
that.
Noah Silverman (15:59):
Yeah I feel like I'm continuing to talk about
that first of the threeinflection points I talked
about, or the second, of thethree inflection points, which
was the move away from, my 10years of law practice to to a
role in our in our, on ourbusiness side.
But that, that felt like a hugerisk to me at the time.
I had investment in in lawschool, quite literally time and
(16:20):
money in training me to be alawyer.
I also had investment in thenumber of years that I'd spent
developing my career as alawyer.
And all I really knew at thatpoint, after college, three
years of law school and almost10 years of doing it, was that I
actually I knew I was prettygood at it.
I actually did not.
I was not, Failing in anyrespect as a lawyer.
(16:40):
I actually think I was a prettygood lawyer.
But I also knew I wasn't happydoing it.
And there, there came that pointwhere I really felt like it was
important to find my way intosomething that I enjoyed it.
It was no longer about chasingwhatever the next important
career.
Door opening opportunity mightbe and more about reaping some
(17:00):
of the rewards of the investmentthat you've made to do something
that you might actually like andenjoy.
And and so it felt like a hugerisk to, to move to the to that
asset management team because Iwasn't sure that I'd be able to
figure out, how a financialmodel works.
I wasn't sure that I would besuccessful in looking at deals
through a through a businesslens as opposed to looking at
(17:22):
them through.
A legal lens.
And there are, there were asmany examples as they were.
There weren't too many exampleslike Arne obviously.
But there were other examples oflawyers that had transitioned
out.
But there were also examples oflawyers that had transitioned
out successfully, I should say.
But there were other examples oflawyers that had transitioned
out to business rolesunsuccessfully, and then had to
rebound back into legal careersand.
(17:45):
I definitely didn't want to dothat.
So it, it felt like a huge riskto do that.
I felt much more kind of a cwhen I first joined that, that
team, in terms of being on amuch deeper learning curve than
maybe I had even anticipated.
And it took a while to, to, feellike I was settling in and that
and gained some confidence backthat I really didn't have any
(18:05):
issues having when I was When Iwas practicing law.
And ultimately obviously it paidoff and I did settle in.
I learned a lot.
I was given opportunities afterthat, that I wouldn't have had.
But for having, making thatmove.
But it definitely took awillingness to take a leap into
a very uncomfortable place andchallenge myself and see if it
was gonna give me the thingsthat I was looking for.
(18:28):
And thankfully in, in that case,it really did.
Did you
Lan Elliott (18:31):
have days where you, at the beginning, where you
went home and you went, oh, Idon't know about this?
Or do you have your own internalpep talk?
Like how do you how do youmentally get from that place of
where you think maybe.
I don't know if this was a goodidea to persevering to get to
the other side.
Noah Silverman (18:49):
And maybe in some ways, thankfully I'm
motivated more by the discomfortthan I am uncomfortable with the
discomfort, if that makes anysense at all.
So I I find that the challengein the discomfort motivating
because I, obviously, I don'tlike to fail and I think I've
got a bit of a competitive drivein me as well, and so the
(19:12):
discomfort of that risk andchallenge was helpful in keeping
me engaged and motivated anddriven.
That's not a, that's not.
True a hundred percent of thetime though, in fairness.
So there were certainly timesand I won't I won't divulge the
specifics of the review that Igot the first year that I was
(19:34):
working for Joel and assetmanagement.
But it was different, let's say,than the reviews that I'd grown
accustomed to getting at yearend as a lawyer and I did.
Kind of have moments after thatwhere I said to myself, did I do
the right thing?
And I'm, and am I on a rightpath?
Am I on the right path to tosucceed in, in, having taken
this leap a year ago?
(19:54):
Or do I need to think about,maybe being less happy doing
what I'm doing, but maybe betterat what I'm doing?
And going back to the old role,and again, thankfully I chose
the.
I chose the, I don't think I'mgonna get fired, but maybe it's
gonna take me a little bitlonger to get there.
And I'm so much happier doingwhat I'm doing now that there
(20:16):
was, there was no no seriousconsideration really to, to
going backwards at that point.
But yeah you just, I just had tofight through those those
moments when they came.
Yeah.
And
Lan Elliott (20:27):
the industry's richer for you doing that,
obviously.
Noah Silverman (20:29):
I don't know about that, but thank you for
for saying so.
Lan Elliott (20:32):
I think so.
Having had the opportunity towork with you let's talk a
little bit about building anetwork, cuz obviously you've
got a really big network, butfor a lot of people, networking
isn't something that's verycomfortable.
How have you developed yournetwork and how do you network
in a way that suits yourpersonality?
Noah Silverman (20:50):
Yeah.
So I start with the last part ofthat question, which is, how do
I do it in a way that suits mypersonality?
I do feel like I am a I don'tfeel this way.
I know I am introvert.
And so I, I have to approach thebusiness world, both looking at
relationships around thehallways of Marriott, but also
our relationships with ourowners and franchisees, which
are really important as Workingin our development function.
(21:11):
A as an extrovert, right?
You just you you're theintrovert in an extroverted
world.
And so I, I do it in ways thatI'm comfortable with, but I also
try to do it in ways that feelauthentic and natural to me.
And for a lot of the early partof my career, the, before I
really took the developmentrole, I was I was focused on, my
network was really more of aninternal network within
(21:32):
Marriott.
A lot of my jobs were werefocused on engaging with other
Marriott associates.
And so that networking was totry to connect with my coworkers
in ways that helped, would.
One people that I liked,thankfully in, in our company
and in our industry, I find alot of people that I like.
So I think building a networkwith people that you enjoy
(21:53):
spending time with and trusttheir feedback is maybe the most
important aspect of that.
And then secondarily in thoseearly days, it was also about
finding people that I felt.
Might be able to help guide mein certain respects around
career opportunities.
And a few of the jobs that I gotpost law department came because
I had reached out to.
(22:14):
Leaders of those teams andexpressed interest in learning
more about them.
And and potentially if therewere ever an opening working on
those teams and some of thepeople in those shops, Joel, you
mentioned who hired me into thatasset management role but others
as well.
Eventually Tony as well.
When Tony hired me indevelopment.
Back in 2010, not only were animportant part of my network,
(22:37):
but were important kind ofchampions and mentors to me as I
was working through differentaspects of my career.
But it was important.
It was important to me to findpeople that I felt like I could
trust and that I connected withand that That there was you
could also develop a, afriendship with beyond just
professional guidance and advicethey may be willing to give.
(22:58):
Yeah.
It's a wonderful
Lan Elliott (22:59):
industry where I think a lot of people will meet.
For business reasons and thenbecome friends afterwards.
So I don't know if that happensin every industry but I do find
it a lot in ours.
Let's talk a little bit aboutmentors and champions, cuz you,
you touched on it a second agoand you had mentioned Joel, but
I'm curious, how important is itto find champions and mentors
(23:20):
and how do you go about it?
Noah Silverman (23:24):
I think it's, I think it's really important.
It's hard to describe astep-by-step guide into, making
it happen, finding mentors andchampions.
But I was given a piece ofadvice when I was career advice
when I was still at the lawfirm.
So very early in my career postlaw school from one of the
(23:44):
partners at the time who told methat.
As in as important it is, as itis to have others that are
looking out for you and to be onradar screens and things for
when there's opportunities thatpresent themselves there, there
really is nobody who will careabout your career more than you
are gonna care about it.
And I've carried that advicewith me through my entire
(24:06):
career.
And in fact, I tell people it's,I think it's some of the best
career advice I was ever givenis recognize your own role.
In that, in, in your careerbecause just naturally you're
gonna care about it more thananyone else might.
At the same time, you know thatdecisions that are gonna be made
that could involve you, whetherit's a new opportunity for a
(24:26):
different role within a bigcompany or a promotion within
that company, that it's gonnatake somebody.
Being willing to stand up andadvocate for you while you're
also advocating for yourself tomake those kinds of things
happen.
So while while I think it'sincredibly important and maybe
singularly important at the topof the order for you to be
(24:49):
willing to be an advocate foryourself, having mentors and
champions is maybe next in termsof.
Significance when you thinkabout the roles that they will
play in those opportunities, inthose promotions and I can point
to multiple instances in mybackground here at Marriott
where that's played out to betrue.
In terms of how to go aboutfinding mentors and champions
(25:10):
it's maybe a corollary of thequestion you just asked about
how to build a network.
I see it as two sides of thesame coin.
Find people that you can trustexpress to them.
What you are interested in, tryto build a relationship so that
they know you and understand youand vice versa.
And and maybe also recognizethat while, a broad array of
(25:35):
relationships are reallyimportant it's.
Deeper relationships with acouple, maybe a couple people
that have an ability to have areal influence.
Maybe more important than try,than having surface
relationships with kind surfacelevel relationships with
everyone.
So I was a significantbeneficiary of some folks along
the way that really took aninterest in me.
(25:55):
And then thought of me whenopportunities presented
themselves and in part because Iwas in their ear telling them
about things I was interested indoing, but also because they
were willing to be supporters ofmine.
And it was a significant factorin the different roles that I
was given a chance to to tryover the course of my career.
Lan Elliott (26:14):
I love that.
And I wanna go a little bitdeeper actually, cuz you just
touched on that you were intheir ear when new opportunities
came about.
Can we talk a little bit aboutadvocating for ourselves?
Because you've already startedto allude to it, but I wanted to
go a bit deeper into it becauseone of the things you're really
good at doing is when you see anopportunity that you're
(26:35):
interested in.
You'll go and talk to someoneand express your interests.
And not everybody does that, andnot everyone has the confidence
to do that.
In fact, there's ageneralization that women are
not very good at advocating foryour, for themselves or holding
up their hand for an opportunitythey'd be interested in.
I know I haven't been as good asit at it as I should have been.
Can you share how you've doneit?
How have you a advocated foryourself when you see
(26:57):
opportunities you're interestedin?
Noah Silverman (26:59):
Yeah.
And I'll confess, it wasn'tsuper comfortable for me either.
Again, and give me a MyersBriggs test.
I'm definitely gonna come up onthe introverted side of the ie.
Part of that equation.
And yet you just have to do it.
As I as I mentioned I knocked onsome doors to express interest
in different roles along the wayso that people could think of me
(27:21):
if and when there wereopportunities, on their team.
And I helped them understood whoI was as a person and what I
understood, what I thought myskills were and how I thought I
could be an asset for.
For them on their teams ifopportunities presented
themselves.
And there are at least twooccasions, if not three of the
multiple jobs that I've hadsince having come to Mart where
(27:44):
that was a direct that played adirect role in me being given
The the opportunity to competefor that job at the end of the
day.
By no means did it result in megetting the job, but certainly
it was having been in their earputting myself on their radar
screen.
Got me in a consideration set sothat when I a applied for those
(28:04):
roles, I don't think I otherwisemight have been thought of.
And so I did have to reach out,out of my comfort zone and put
myself out there as havinginterest in it and it paid
dividends.
Even when it's not easy, again,gets back to that, that that
career advice that I got earlyin my days at the law firm, that
nobody is gonna care more aboutyour career.
(28:25):
Then you're gonna care about it.
And what that translates into isis taking some responsibility
for your career.
By all means.
I am a believer that if you do agreat job at your job and go
above and beyond, that will getnoticed.
And that will and should resultrightfully in opportunities
coming your way, but it will notresult in every opportunity that
(28:46):
could come your way.
If coupled with doing a greatjob and going above and beyond
and making sure that you areshowing up on those radar
screens, you're also willing toput yourself out there and put
yourself into the ears of peoplewho have the ability to
influence your career andletting them know that about who
you are and what you want to do,and what your aspirations are.
(29:07):
I think that's a reallyimportant role for leaders
generally to understand thehope, dreams, and aspirations of
everybody on their team.
But I also think that there's aresponsibility that comes to
that for others around theorganization the people that are
on those teams to convey thatproactively to their leaders,
but maybe equally as importantto people who aren't their
(29:29):
leaders, especially if they maybe thinking as I was at
different times in my careerabout.
About different roles in thecompany and different
departments than the one that Iwas in.
Lan Elliott (29:38):
Yeah, I think that's I love so much about what
you said.
One of them was, be really goodat your job, right?
Because people are gonna noticethat, but then that's not always
going to give you all the
Noah Silverman (29:48):
options.
Yeah.
That's table stakes, right?
Because fall falling below beingreally good at your job, bad
things happen.
Yes.
But when you're really good atyour job, then you are then
you're doing the.
The things that, that presentthe, it's the opportunity for
opportunity, right?
You've done the task number one,which is just be great at what
you're supposed to do.
(30:09):
But you do have to go beyond
Lan Elliott (30:10):
that.
Yeah, and I think a lot ofpeople who work really hard,
they do a great job, but thenthey think that's going to be
enough and that things willnaturally happen and some things
do naturally happen, but I dothink as you start to get
towards the top of the pyramidand there are fewer and fewer
opportunities, everyone's tablestakes, as you said, doing a
good job.
So if you want those roles, andas you get more senior, there
(30:31):
are fewer of them, you need tohold your hand up and ask for it
and advocate for yourself.
Absolutely.
If you're gonna be on that list,absolutely.
Yep.
So one of my favorite questionson our interview series is what
advice would you give to youryounger self?
And I don't know if it's theadvice that, that you just
(30:52):
mentioned earlier, but I'mcurious, what would you tell
your younger self?
Noah Silverman (30:56):
Thankfully I had somebody else to give me that
little that little diddy ofadvice at the time.
I did, I wouldn't have to giveit to myself.
But look, I I spent a number ofyears post law school being
pretty unhappy doing what I wasdoing, progressively less
unhappy.
I was I liked what I was doingat Mariet a lot more than I
liked what I was doing at thelaw firm.
(31:16):
But I was about 10 years into acareer and really had been in
three different jobs, twodifferent employers, and really
wasn't enjoying what I wasdoing.
But was nonetheless workingpretty hard at it as well and
trying to be successful at it.
And and I, I.
Because I eventually found a wayout of that into jobs that
(31:36):
progressively gave me anincreasing level of job
satisfaction, personalsatisfaction, and happiness.
I guess maybe the advice that Iwould give to my younger self,
if it, if I caught me in thatwindow of 10 years there is
that, it's, you're on the path.
It's a process.
And and realize that.
(31:57):
That that path and that processis part of what will lead you
into a place that, I can't desdescribe as every day as is
jumping for joy and zen levelsof just off the charts, levels
of zen and happiness.
But I really do love what I do.
I have loved.
The time that I've spent atMarriott, especially after I
(32:19):
transitioned at a law, and Idon't think honestly those
opportunities present themselvesto me had I not done the things
that I had done before.
Which doesn't mean that somebodyelse couldn't have ended up in
the same job coming up through adifferent path they did before
me.
But in, in my case, it was thatpath that led me to a place of
job satisfaction, professionalsatisfaction, personal.
(32:40):
Happiness and growth.
And so maybe that's what I tellmyself in my younger days is,
just realize that it's part ofthe process and you're on the
path and keep working hard andkeep doing a great job and
realize that things will, there,there is a payoff for this for
this investment of time anddevelopment that you're making
in yourself, even in da, even indays where it feels like it's a
(33:02):
grind.
And I think by the way it's alittle bit of a challenge at
times with with the youngergeneration.
I have two kids that are intheir twenties.
Early twenties.
I think that sort of careerprogression, patience maybe is
not the the single greatesttrait of the next generation.
But I do think that investmentis an understanding that sort of
(33:24):
good things come to those thatnot just weight, but are
investing their time anddevelopment is an important
lesson for it would've been animportant lesson for me.
At, in my early twenties, and Ithink it's an important one
today.
That's wonderful.
Lan Elliott (33:40):
As I expected, we are running out of time because
I know there's so much greatcontent for you to share, which
you have done today.
That's your nice
Noah Silverman (33:48):
way of saying I'm really talkative, Lynn, but
I appreciate you giving me theopportunity to chat.
Lan Elliott (33:53):
I think there's been so much great content that
you shared that I wanted you tojust go deeper and share more.
But I'd love if you could shareone final piece of advice just
keeping in mind that our missionat D.
D e I advisors is aroundempowering personal success.
What advice would you offer towomen and underrepresented
groups who are looking toadvance their career?
(34:14):
One final.
Nugget,
Noah Silverman (34:17):
I can't say the best career.
The best piece of career adviceI ever got was was to know that
you're gonna care more aboutyour career than anyone else.
And as a result of that investyourself in making, in, in
helping to facilitate outcomesfor yourself that you are, that
you're searching.
So putting yourself out there,building networks, finding
champions and mentors, doing thethings that we've, spent the
(34:39):
last several minutes.
Talking about I, I can't saythat's the best piece of career
advice I've had I've ever gottenwithout saying that's it.
I really do believe that's thebest thing that I can convey as
well which is to recognize thatand invest in yourself and do
the things necessary to.
Put yourself out there evenwhere it's uncomfortable.
(35:02):
Without, by the way, beingsomebody, I'm not trying to tell
people, be somebody you're not.
Create a kind of inauthenticwork version of yourself.
That is not the advice that Iwould give do it in a way that.
Maybe you are leastuncomfortable with, if it's
uncomfortable for you but in away that, that feels like it's
still true to who you are andauthentic to who you are as a
(35:22):
person.
But be willing to to getuncomfortable a bit in order to
advocate for yourself and beyour own champion for first,
because I think that that willhelp with all the other pieces.
That are also important to beinghaving a long and successful.
Career and it never stops, bythe way.
(35:42):
I still feel that's, that,that's true.
Even with the number of yearsthat I have, continue to be
curious, continue to work hard,continue to do a great job
continue to care about yourselfand others and and continue to,
in investing yourself in waysthat, that hopefully continue to
allow you to learn, grow and getadditional opportunities.
Lan Elliott (36:05):
Thank you as a fellow introvert, I love the way
you stated that we can stillmake headway even though it's
uncomfortable.
You just lean into that a littlebit.
So yeah, thank you very muchNoah.
Really appreciate your sharingyour insights and your journey
with our audience, and it'sreally my pleasure.
Thank you.
And for our audience, if youenjoyed this interview with
(36:26):
Noah, I hope you'll go to ourwebsite, d e i advisors.org for
more interviews with hospitalityleaders.
Thank
you.
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