April 30, 2023 • 32 mins
Sylvia Douglin, Founder, Refined Training & Consulting, shares insights gained in her 20 years as a trainer, including what personal branding entails and why it’s important. She also offers practical tips on how to ask for advice, how to speak up and share your ideas in a way that gets heard, and why learning how to write for business can further your career. Sylvia explains the difference between a mentor and an advocate, how to select a mentor or advocate, how to develop those relationships, and discusses the significant differences in what diversity encompasses today.
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(00:02):
Welcome.
Today I am really pleased tohave si Sylvia Douglin with us.
She has been in the hospitalityindustry for over 20 years
including as an on propertydirector of human resources at F
Full Service Hotel in Arlington,Virginia.
And for the last 17 years, she'sbeen directing training
initiatives in the C-suites ofthree major third party
(00:24):
management.
And she also offers training inprofessionalism and business
communication at collegesthrough her own firm, refined
training and consulting.
Welcome Sylvia.
Thank you to have you.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
So I was hoping we could startand talk a little bit about your
background in your career, andmaybe we could start with how
you got interested in humanresources and training and how
(00:45):
that led you to hospital.
Okay.
I have again been training, I'vebeen training somebody in
something since the eighties.
and I started out as thatdigital Equipment Corporation,
if anybody remembers what thatis.
It became Hewlett Pack and theyhad a program for diversity.
(01:07):
They were trying to introducediversity into that organization
and they were looking for peopleto train who had trained
something before.
And they were looking for peopleof color and.
and I raised my hand and said, Idefinitely, I've trained people
before.
I'm a woman and I'm a person ofcolor.
I can check all the boxes off.
(01:28):
And so I went into their programand that's how I got into
corporate training.
Very different than a classroomtraining situation.
And I've, I did thatindividually and around the
country and I ended up with amanagement consulting.
and that's how I really got intothe high end corporate training
(01:49):
for years.
And one of our clients turnedout to be big hotel companies,
and I went and trained with themand then ended up working for
them.
And I was in the HR unit, sothat's how, that was around 2000
year, 2000.
And I've been in hotels anddoing training with them for
them all this time.
(02:11):
Wonderful.
So as a director of training,what are the key things that you
focus on?
In the hotel industry we focuson leadership because if the
leaders of the properties, Arenot strong and really taking
their people to the next level.
And in insisting on quality,those sorts of things then that
it really doesn't work verywell.
And we wanna make sure that ourleaders understand how to lead
(02:34):
people.
I teach customer service.
I used to teach back in the dayharassment prevention and those
sorts.
And I also make sure thattraining is going on at all
various properties that thebrands have training that the
individual hotels have to adhereto making sure that's happening
and safety and things like that.
(02:54):
So I make sure all that is goingon at the properties.
Got it.
So one of the other things, oneof the other skills you teach is
building your personal brand.
So I'm curious how you buildyour personal brand and any tips
you might have for our viewers.
Bur your own personal brand iscritical because that is what
you're putting out to the world.
(03:16):
And people think I've got mycollege degree and my mother
says, I'm wonder.
And that's all I need.
Off I go.
No, you've gotta be seen by yourcolleagues as a viable member of
the team.
So this is on the, this islooking at it from the work
side, the personal side.
It goes into that a little bitas well.
(03:37):
But as how do you present, whatdo you say, when do you say, how
do you read the politics in anyorganization that you belong?
what do you look like?
And that doesn't mean that youhave to look like a Kardashian
or you have any of that sort ofthing, but you do.
I look right for where I'mgoing, who I'm seeing right now.
(04:04):
and then so your personal brand.
After a while, it begins to behow people expect you to show
up, and you can end up gettingan opportunity to do things that
you might not have gotten achance to do, or it is not
working for you.
Sometimes you're ass out.
She's great.
(04:25):
No.
So your brand is gonna go outbefore you when you are not
there to speak for yourself.
So you really have to understandwhat are you putting out.
That makes sense.
So I wanted to ask you you'vebeen doing training for a long
time and how have your skillsevolved?
When you first started working,not just in training, but when
(04:47):
you first started in your careerversus now, have you found that
the skills that you need evolveover your career?
They have.
When I first started training,it was stick to the script and
make sure people, it was almostas if back in the day, you were
taking classroom training intothe corporate world, and you
(05:10):
know how it is in school.
You sit down, fold your hand andlisten to the teacher.
Over the years, what I havediscovered is that's really not
effective at all with adults.
Doesn't work that well with kidseither, but that's another
story, But what adults need toshare and exchange.
And so what I have learned overtime is how to stay with my
(05:34):
program.
Making sure time and the salientpoints are being covered and all
that, while allowing an exchangewith the audience, with the
participants so that they canshare their information and also
to lead them to the point thatwe are trying to make and they
discover it to, to exchangingtheir own information and people
(05:57):
don't dispute their own data.
So they didn't realize, oh wowthis can work.
I have been doing this, so thisis something I can try.
It's, it doesn't feel somethingso out of their skin that
they're uncomfortable with itbecause they may find things
they can do.
Got it.
And how about some advice you,would you, what advice would you
(06:20):
give to your younger self thatyou wish you knew earlier in
your career?
Don't be afraid to step outthere.
It's when you're young, youthink that everybody knows more
than me, and I'm just here andI'm just going to keep my mouth
shut and follow along and followdirection.
(06:42):
What it turns out is that kindof holds you back.
You need to be a little bitbold, a little bit.
and to say yes to things and getinvolved with things that are
just outside your comfort zone.
And I would tell my younger selfthat it's going to be okay and
to go on and do the thing.
(07:06):
Also, that people are alsorooting for you more than you're
thinking.
Folks don't wanna see.
you crash and burn.
They really don't.
Yes.
So they're trying to, they giveyou support.
They'll tell you what you needto do.
People reach out their hand andsometimes people don't take it.
(07:27):
Take the hand, ask people for afew minutes of their time.
They're, as long as you get tothe point and get on with it,
then they're happy to give you afew minutes to help you.
They want to see you succeed.
That's really great.
I wish I had that advice when Iwas younger when I was younger.
So switching over a little bitto handling diversity issues.
Being a woman and a person ofcolor sometimes presents unique
(07:50):
challenges in terms of,sometimes being overlooked,
undervalued, or underestimated.
And so I'm curious if that'ssomething that ever happened to
you.
In your career sometimes, but atsome of it's, how do you deal
with that?
if people are talking ar inaround you, say you're at a
(08:12):
meeting or something, and again,my younger self, you're at a
meeting something andeverybody's this and that and
the other thing.
And look, Bob, here's what we'regoing to.
if you raise your hand, excuseme, I have an idea.
And here it is.
I did that at a meeting, scaredthe stuffings outta me.
(08:33):
But it worked is you could beoverlooked.
If you don't say anything, yougotta know what to say.
And as a woman, you've gotta getto the.
I've been in meetings wherewomen get overlooked because
when they put the point outthere, I had this idea on the
(08:56):
way to work.
Maybe it's a little silly.
I don't know.
Maybe you'll think of somethingbetter.
Two hours later, she finallysays, here's my idea.
Everybody's eyes have rolledback in their head and you have
already discounted your point.
When men, I watched and men.
here's what I think we shoulddo.
(09:19):
And they say whatever it is, andsometimes it's accepted,
sometimes it's not.
Put the ideas out there, Ithink, when get overlooked
because we, we apologize toomuch.
We don't do it as much as we didbefore, and I think sometimes
now we can be too bold.
(09:41):
Here's what it's, and you allare gonna do what I say.
Breathe to say your pointstrong, be real clear with it,
and then sit down and let theinformation soak in and then
(10:01):
participate in the discussionthat comes around after.
Yeah.
And power of silence to stoptalking.
No one to stop talking.
That, that is so important, whatyou just said, the power of
silence after you've saidsomething.
Not to be silent, but saysomething and then be quiet.
So what are some of the thingsyou did over the course of your
career to create opportunitiesfor.
(10:27):
I raised my hand and I took jobsthat I wasn't supposed to have
back in the day cuz I'm not ayoung person anymore.
You got outta school and yousecretarial jobs, administrative
jobs, what they were offeringwomen back in the day.
and a friend of mine told meabout Xerox was hiring women to
(10:49):
in sales roles.
And I had been an admin eversince, and wanted to get out of
that and do something different.
And I went in and learned how tosell.
learning how to sell, eventhough it's not one of my
favorite things, it is one ofthe most important things you,
that you learn because it's whatpoints do you need to bring
(11:12):
forward?
How do you get up in front ofsomebody that you don't know,
somebody new, cold calling andthat sort of thing.
You have to be brave to do that.
And shake someone's hand andpresent your product.
That was one of the biggest andmost useful skills that I
developed along the way.
And it helps with the trainingsometimes too, because you walk
(11:36):
into a a room, we train biggroup of people, 50 people, 60
people in a room at the sametime, and then it's you.
You've gotta own your.
and the sales training was a bighelp towards understanding how
to do that.
Yes, I convinced myself early inmy career that I wasn't any good
(11:57):
at sales.
And it turned out later when Ifound something I was passionate
about, I was very good at sales.
So you never know.
Sometimes you underestimateyourself.
And sales sounds scary.
It does.
Talking to people you don't knowsounds.
But sometimes you just, goforward and you do, like you
said, you figure out the points,what you need to know and you go
do it.
(12:17):
Yep.
And and it gets more comfortableover time.
It does.
It really does.
Yeah.
How about there's a lot ofdiscussion lately about
advocates and mentors and howthey're different now, advocate
and mentor are different.
What are some of the ways thatpeople could find advocates and
mentors for themselves to helpadvance their careers?
(12:38):
I think a couple of things.
One of'em is you come into anorganization, you need to look
around first.
Who's in here in the first.
And what is get, take thetemperature of the folks in
there.
There are some people who cantell you, but they're not good
mentors.
Everybody's not a good mentor.
(12:59):
They might be a good advocatewho, who here is on, but look at
right now.
Who here is on my side and wantsto see my project, my
initiative, whatever it is, moveforward.
And for that person, you need ayou need an advocate.
somebody who's gonna go into themeeting with the CEO or whoever
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is the next level up in yourgroup and say, that's a good
program that putting together.
Take a look at it and a mentor.
You need somebody who's going totake time with you and help
groom you and get you to thenext level.
How to, how the company works orhow to move up the ladder or
whatever.
It's, and that you needsomebody.
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Who is willing to put in thetime who you can stick your head
in their door and say, what justhappened?
they won't tell you.
They'll tell you the good andthe bad and they'll help you
work on the things that you needto improve.
And it's not, and these folks,whether it's the advocate or the
(14:07):
mentor, are not a dime a dozen.
but you need to pick somebodywho is you feel comfortable
talking with and to get back tobravery some and go in, I need
somebody to help me.
Do you have a few minutes?
And when I say a few minutes, Ireally do mean a few minutes.
(14:27):
Pick a time.
We have 15, 20 minutes, and at19 minutes you're standing up
and you're getting ready toleave.
Can you help me?
I'm trying to navigate theorganization.
I'm trying to navigate what'sgoing on around here.
I have a program that I wannapresent and I need to know how
to move it through theorganization.
(14:47):
Can you help me figure that out?
Or if you can't, do you knowsomebody who could and then be
quiet?
That's great.
Gonna ask.
any other suggestions you wouldoffer for people looking to
advance in their careers, thingsthat they should think about?
(15:08):
One of the big ones is beprepared.
I have been in places wherepeople now fumbling around
looking for paper pens, looklike you're ready to do.
if you're trying, ifparticularly if you're young and
moving in, or you're the they'rebringing in people of color and
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yes, everybody should be ratedthe same and all that.
That's nice.
And reality is you're the newperson, whatever that means.
And you can't come in.
Somebody calls you into ameeting and you just walk in.
Huh?
really just a minute you go andget something to write with you,
(15:51):
get you a pen.
I think I'm on my way.
And then you go ready to takenotes, write something down,
pretend to write somethingbecause then you look like I'm
here to participate as opposedto wandering around.
That's one of the things.
(16:11):
the ability to write forbusiness is another key thing
that young people, and I'm sadto say, many older folks as well
do not do well.
Business writing is not the sameas writing a book.
(16:31):
Business writing is to thepoint, what do I need?
1, 2, 3.
Net it out and send it, and itneeds to be spell checked.
It's not in text speak.
You don't know where this thingis going.
This is gonna represent you whenyou're not there.
So learn how to write asuccinct, concise, as old boss
(16:59):
used to say, pithy.
email document so that it tellsyou, tells people what you need
them to do, because that'ssomething that nobody's ever
gonna say.
If you just ran spell check,maybe I'd have promoted you.
But in reality, if you reallydid just run, spell check, they
might have promoted you.
It's one of the things that now,because they don't even do that,
(17:21):
so then they're never gonna tellyou that.
But that's one of the reasonswhy you may not.
Absolutely, yes.
Definitely seen that in actionbefore.
That's that's really greatadvice.
So shifting gears a little bitto talk a bit more about
diversity in the workplace andthe world has obviously changed
a lot.
There's a lot of new unspokenrules and people maybe don't
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even realize some of the thingsthey're done, that they're doing
may no longer be appropriate oraccept.
what are some of the commonthings that you see happening,
maybe unintentional things thatpeople say or do to to women to
other mar, to marginalizedgroups that maybe they're
unaware are offensive?
(18:06):
There's a couple of things.
One thing happened the other daywhere somebody in my office, a
female in my office, wasbringing something.
From the garage into thebuilding.
It was great, big, heavysomething.
There was a guy who we had, whohad been through a diversity and
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inclusion training at thebeginning, training and whatnot,
and he was at the top of thestairs watching her.
He and he stopped me later, saideverything in me wanted to go
and say, can I take that foryou?
But he was scared to say thatbecause he didn't want to be
(18:48):
seen as putting her down andshe's too weak to carry these
things in or whatever hisnatural gentlemanly tendencies
he brought, he started toquestion, what should I do?
And a lot of people feel thatway.
I told him, you should have justgone.
Let me give you a hand and lether say, no, I got it.
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But people don't know what to doand they're afraid they're gonna
say the wrong thing and hurtsomeone's feelings, or somehow
make a demeaning statementunintentional.
So as you said, it'severything's changed so quickly
and everybody's walking oneggshells.
That is one of the things thatjust happened recently.
(19:34):
There's.
Things that are in the lexiconthat you don't realize what
you're saying to somebody.
And cause everybody says thatthey're little phrases like,
Patty Wagon, we're gonna put youin the patty wagon.
And every ha that was a anegative connotation for Irish
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people back in the day.
Indian giver, things like that,that people don't even think
about until the person for whomthat implied that is targeted
towards is, comes back andthey're stunned or they feel
(20:19):
hurt by you.
Why would he say that?
And that.
So there's lots of things thatpeople don't realize that
they're saying.
and it's gonna take a minute.
Yeah.
So what does someone do ifthey're trying to do the right
thing?
They're trying to create aninclusive environment.
(20:40):
And, but they've done it wrongand they didn't get it right.
What I mean, is it better just.
It, leave it as it is, don'tmess with it.
Or, you could make it worse.
Or, what advice would you giveto people who, maybe said
something and then it dawns onthem that wasn't the right thing
to say?
It's an apology.
(21:01):
It's.
It.
There was a lady in my officeand I was talking to her the
other day and I called her.
I called her Amy, the other ladyin her group.
Amy is Asian.
She's Asian, and I had beentalking to her for a few
(21:25):
minutes, I realized, oh mygoodness, this is not this
woman's name.
Oh my gosh.
To just slink away implies thatyou'll have to get over it.
But I stopped, and I am sosorry.
That's not your name.
Your name is Kim.
I am so sorry she was okay withit, whatever, but at, but I made
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the mistake.
I owe her the apology.
If somebody steal something ordoes something, then go to
somebody and say, this is whathappened the other day.
I'm, I hope you weren'toffended.
That was not my intention.
That's all you can say.
You don't, you can't speak forthem.
You should get over it.
You should be all right.
That was not my intention.
(22:11):
I don't wanna do anything tohurt your feelings or make you
feel uncomfortable.
My apologies.
And then again, the power ofsilence.
Walk away if they wanna saysomething else they can for the.
short apology is your best bet.
(22:31):
Thank you.
That's super helpful.
It's all very different now, soYes.
It's good to, to get some adviceon that.
And I'm also curious you diddiversity training in 2000,
2001.
and you just recently did fourdays of d e I training.
for for a group that you work.
How has the message changed andwhat are some of the key
(22:53):
takeaways that are things youwant people to know today?
It is so incredibly different inthe past 20 years.
It's stunningly different.
At first, if we were talkingabout race and gender, a little
bit about sexual orientation,though, people didn't want to
talk too much about that.
(23:13):
that's as far as it got.
You would talk about what youcan't say and you can't say
racial epithets and things likethat, that you should and
shouldn't say.
But now it's much more, it's sobroad where it's the pronouns
that you have to think aboutand.
that things are on the spectrumof gender.
(23:37):
You can be a really girly, girlygirl, or you could be somebody
who's got a more masculineapproach to life and still being
female.
It's, there are, there's allthose elements to consider.
There's culture, it's holidays.
used to 20 years ago, peoplethought nothing of, we have
(23:59):
Christmas off at our companiesand that's it.
I don't celebrate Christmas.
What am I supposed to do now?
I'm Jewish.
What about Han?
It's the, it's expansive to thepoint of being a little scary
for everyone where people wantto.
(24:20):
Celebrate their difference, butthey also still wanna fit in.
So it's back and forth foreverybody.
So as you're talking aboutdiversity what now?
I think we're at awareness.
We don't, I don't think that theculture of America or the
(24:41):
culture of the world is that wehave a solution.
We don't have a solution.
We have awareness.
And awareness can be a littleoverwhelming but necessary to
understand that these are thethings you have to consider.
You can't just decide that thisperson who was born as a male is
(25:01):
going to have to deal with thefact, I'm gonna call you.
He, whether you want it or not.
I So you know, we have to acceptand we have to learn to accept
the differe.
Of people.
It's not just what we are usedto.
It's not about you.
(25:21):
That's great.
It's hard.
It's different and it is hard.
So do you have another piece ofadvice, maybe you could offer
one last piece of advice for ourviewers that you think they
should know or think about?
I do a lot.
With business image, and this isanother thing that's gotten to
(25:46):
be, it's a big change over thelast two years, It was starting
to become more casual beforethat, but now all beds are off,
and as people are coming backinto the offices, even if it's
on a hybrid system and evensometimes over.
(26:10):
There's a professional level youstill need to achieve because
you are in a bus.
I'm just talking about workstuff.
Now you're in a businessenvironment.
If you had gone, if you were atthe office and they said, let's
all meet in the meeting room,would you really be naked?
(26:31):
Yeah, And I say that it soundsfacetious, but I've had more
than a few people call me andsay, you please you.
Could you say this to somebody?
naked t-shirts that saysomething that's frightening
across the front.
Hair, not corn.
(26:52):
What's in the background?
People have had all sorts ofthings that from x-rated to
dangerous in, in the background.
You're sitting there and peopleare listening to you and looking
at what is that on their wall.
It's all these sorts of thingsthat we have to think about, but
(27:15):
how you present in yourworkspace, whether.
Virtually or face-to-facematters because it speaks to
your judgment.
So do you look like you couldsee a customer?
Do you look like you shouldleave a team?
(27:36):
Do you look like you know whatyou're talking about?
And that goes.
Through a whole spectrum ofthings.
If you are on the IT team andyou're going to be installing
equipment and things like that,and you show up in a three piece
suit, people are worried, whereare you going?
This is not what the jobrequires.
(27:56):
Conversely, you're in the officeand you've got customers to see
and you've got the distressed.
And a Grateful dead t-shirt and14 earrings and purple hair
Because now no one's listeningto you.
They're looking at this outfit.
(28:20):
Yeah.
And you could have the cure forcancer.
You could be laying out the curefor cancer and nobody's.
because they're trying to figurewhy is your hair like that?
and adults do that becausethat's how the adult brain
works.
That's great advice.
All right, so before we wrap up,I wanna do a little lightning
round uhoh with you so that ourviewers can learn a little bit
(28:42):
more about you.
So my first question is, what isyour favorite hotel that you
would love to return to?
Oh, There is a hotel in SantaFe, New Mexico that has a spa.
(29:03):
It's in the, it's in the hills.
It's beautiful, and I havecompletely forgotten the name.
I thought about it this morningat six.
And now it's gone.
It'll come back to you with themoment that you need it.
And do you have a bucket listhotel?
A hotel that you hope to stay atone day?
(29:26):
There's a group of hotelsoverseas called the Smith
Hotels, and I have one of mybest friends and her husband
travel extensively and they goto Smith Hotels and they're all
boutique.
And they're, the service islovely.
The views are beautiful.
The rooms are lovely.
(29:46):
It's just the, it's a wholeatmosphere.
And she comes back and she sendspictures.
Thanks a lot, Oh, man.
They're beautiful.
They're absolutely beautiful.
And it's a ho it's hotels thatreally go that extra mile and do
something that's different.
You can get the regular cookiecutter.
(30:07):
Yep.
They are there so that you canfeel comfortable.
If you're at this hotel in DC orTulsa or Venezuela, you're gonna
get the same thing.
But the boutique hotels arejust, the Smith Hotels.
All right.
All right.
I'm adding that to my list.
What is your favorite movie?
(30:29):
It's such a girl.
you've got mail.
That is a good movie.
It's happy.
No one's ever hurt.
It's just cheerful.
There you go.
Favorite band or artist?
My favorite.
I have two artists that I love.
have an artist have been in, mysister and I have been in art
(30:49):
school from the age of four, andI love portraits and things and
pictures of.
Kaindi who did the he didpresident Obama's portrait for
the Portrait Gallery.
His work is beautiful.
I love him, and I like McEscher.
Mc Escher was an artist from thetwenties, 1920s, thirties, and
(31:13):
pencil drawings.
And he has the one where youhave the hand, drawing the other
hand, I love Mc.
That's wonderful.
That's wonderful.
And what is your idea of aperfect day?
Whew family in, food ordered.
Just we, my sister, my daughterand I do game.
(31:33):
And we have a ball just laughingnow.
My, my grandson who's nine now,has joined in, so he plays along
with us and we had about 20people here with game night over
the holidays.
And it was, and then you're justgonna stand back and say, this
is really wonderful.
That was a wonderful day.
(31:55):
that will stay with me.
That's a wonderful thing to lookforward to.
And I'm hoping we'll all be backtogether at the holidays again
this year.
we all missed that recently.
All right thank you so much,Sylvia.
I really appreciate your timeand you're just such a wealth of
knowledge and and just to shareyour perspective, I really
appreci.
Your time and your time.
Thank you very much for invitingme.
This has been a lot of fun.
(32:18):
Thank you.
All right.
Take care.
Welcome.
Today I am really pleased tohave si Sylvia Douglin with us.
She has been in the hospitalityindustry for over 20 years
including as an on propertydirector of human resources at F
Full Service Hotel in Arlington,Virginia.
And for the last 17 years, she'sbeen directing training
initiatives in the C-suites ofthree major third party
(00:24):
management.
And she also offers training inprofessionalism and business
communication at collegesthrough her own firm, refined
training and consulting.
Welcome Sylvia.
Thank you to have you.
Wonderful.
Thank you.
So I was hoping we could startand talk a little bit about your
background in your career, andmaybe we could start with how
you got interested in humanresources and training and how
(00:45):
that led you to hospital.
Okay.
I have again been training, I'vebeen training somebody in
something since the eighties.
and I started out as thatdigital Equipment Corporation,
if anybody remembers what thatis.
It became Hewlett Pack and theyhad a program for diversity.
(01:07):
They were trying to introducediversity into that organization
and they were looking for peopleto train who had trained
something before.
And they were looking for peopleof color and.
and I raised my hand and said, Idefinitely, I've trained people
before.
I'm a woman and I'm a person ofcolor.
I can check all the boxes off.
(01:28):
And so I went into their programand that's how I got into
corporate training.
Very different than a classroomtraining situation.
And I've, I did thatindividually and around the
country and I ended up with amanagement consulting.
and that's how I really got intothe high end corporate training
(01:49):
for years.
And one of our clients turnedout to be big hotel companies,
and I went and trained with themand then ended up working for
them.
And I was in the HR unit, sothat's how, that was around 2000
year, 2000.
And I've been in hotels anddoing training with them for
them all this time.
(02:11):
Wonderful.
So as a director of training,what are the key things that you
focus on?
In the hotel industry we focuson leadership because if the
leaders of the properties, Arenot strong and really taking
their people to the next level.
And in insisting on quality,those sorts of things then that
it really doesn't work verywell.
And we wanna make sure that ourleaders understand how to lead
(02:34):
people.
I teach customer service.
I used to teach back in the dayharassment prevention and those
sorts.
And I also make sure thattraining is going on at all
various properties that thebrands have training that the
individual hotels have to adhereto making sure that's happening
and safety and things like that.
(02:54):
So I make sure all that is goingon at the properties.
Got it.
So one of the other things, oneof the other skills you teach is
building your personal brand.
So I'm curious how you buildyour personal brand and any tips
you might have for our viewers.
Bur your own personal brand iscritical because that is what
you're putting out to the world.
(03:16):
And people think I've got mycollege degree and my mother
says, I'm wonder.
And that's all I need.
Off I go.
No, you've gotta be seen by yourcolleagues as a viable member of
the team.
So this is on the, this islooking at it from the work
side, the personal side.
It goes into that a little bitas well.
(03:37):
But as how do you present, whatdo you say, when do you say, how
do you read the politics in anyorganization that you belong?
what do you look like?
And that doesn't mean that youhave to look like a Kardashian
or you have any of that sort ofthing, but you do.
I look right for where I'mgoing, who I'm seeing right now.
(04:04):
and then so your personal brand.
After a while, it begins to behow people expect you to show
up, and you can end up gettingan opportunity to do things that
you might not have gotten achance to do, or it is not
working for you.
Sometimes you're ass out.
She's great.
(04:25):
No.
So your brand is gonna go outbefore you when you are not
there to speak for yourself.
So you really have to understandwhat are you putting out.
That makes sense.
So I wanted to ask you you'vebeen doing training for a long
time and how have your skillsevolved?
When you first started working,not just in training, but when
(04:47):
you first started in your careerversus now, have you found that
the skills that you need evolveover your career?
They have.
When I first started training,it was stick to the script and
make sure people, it was almostas if back in the day, you were
taking classroom training intothe corporate world, and you
(05:10):
know how it is in school.
You sit down, fold your hand andlisten to the teacher.
Over the years, what I havediscovered is that's really not
effective at all with adults.
Doesn't work that well with kidseither, but that's another
story, But what adults need toshare and exchange.
And so what I have learned overtime is how to stay with my
(05:34):
program.
Making sure time and the salientpoints are being covered and all
that, while allowing an exchangewith the audience, with the
participants so that they canshare their information and also
to lead them to the point thatwe are trying to make and they
discover it to, to exchangingtheir own information and people
(05:57):
don't dispute their own data.
So they didn't realize, oh wowthis can work.
I have been doing this, so thisis something I can try.
It's, it doesn't feel somethingso out of their skin that
they're uncomfortable with itbecause they may find things
they can do.
Got it.
And how about some advice you,would you, what advice would you
(06:20):
give to your younger self thatyou wish you knew earlier in
your career?
Don't be afraid to step outthere.
It's when you're young, youthink that everybody knows more
than me, and I'm just here andI'm just going to keep my mouth
shut and follow along and followdirection.
(06:42):
What it turns out is that kindof holds you back.
You need to be a little bitbold, a little bit.
and to say yes to things and getinvolved with things that are
just outside your comfort zone.
And I would tell my younger selfthat it's going to be okay and
to go on and do the thing.
(07:06):
Also, that people are alsorooting for you more than you're
thinking.
Folks don't wanna see.
you crash and burn.
They really don't.
Yes.
So they're trying to, they giveyou support.
They'll tell you what you needto do.
People reach out their hand andsometimes people don't take it.
(07:27):
Take the hand, ask people for afew minutes of their time.
They're, as long as you get tothe point and get on with it,
then they're happy to give you afew minutes to help you.
They want to see you succeed.
That's really great.
I wish I had that advice when Iwas younger when I was younger.
So switching over a little bitto handling diversity issues.
Being a woman and a person ofcolor sometimes presents unique
(07:50):
challenges in terms of,sometimes being overlooked,
undervalued, or underestimated.
And so I'm curious if that'ssomething that ever happened to
you.
In your career sometimes, but atsome of it's, how do you deal
with that?
if people are talking ar inaround you, say you're at a
(08:12):
meeting or something, and again,my younger self, you're at a
meeting something andeverybody's this and that and
the other thing.
And look, Bob, here's what we'regoing to.
if you raise your hand, excuseme, I have an idea.
And here it is.
I did that at a meeting, scaredthe stuffings outta me.
(08:33):
But it worked is you could beoverlooked.
If you don't say anything, yougotta know what to say.
And as a woman, you've gotta getto the.
I've been in meetings wherewomen get overlooked because
when they put the point outthere, I had this idea on the
(08:56):
way to work.
Maybe it's a little silly.
I don't know.
Maybe you'll think of somethingbetter.
Two hours later, she finallysays, here's my idea.
Everybody's eyes have rolledback in their head and you have
already discounted your point.
When men, I watched and men.
here's what I think we shoulddo.
(09:19):
And they say whatever it is, andsometimes it's accepted,
sometimes it's not.
Put the ideas out there, Ithink, when get overlooked
because we, we apologize toomuch.
We don't do it as much as we didbefore, and I think sometimes
now we can be too bold.
(09:41):
Here's what it's, and you allare gonna do what I say.
Breathe to say your pointstrong, be real clear with it,
and then sit down and let theinformation soak in and then
(10:01):
participate in the discussionthat comes around after.
Yeah.
And power of silence to stoptalking.
No one to stop talking.
That, that is so important, whatyou just said, the power of
silence after you've saidsomething.
Not to be silent, but saysomething and then be quiet.
So what are some of the thingsyou did over the course of your
career to create opportunitiesfor.
(10:27):
I raised my hand and I took jobsthat I wasn't supposed to have
back in the day cuz I'm not ayoung person anymore.
You got outta school and yousecretarial jobs, administrative
jobs, what they were offeringwomen back in the day.
and a friend of mine told meabout Xerox was hiring women to
(10:49):
in sales roles.
And I had been an admin eversince, and wanted to get out of
that and do something different.
And I went in and learned how tosell.
learning how to sell, eventhough it's not one of my
favorite things, it is one ofthe most important things you,
that you learn because it's whatpoints do you need to bring
(11:12):
forward?
How do you get up in front ofsomebody that you don't know,
somebody new, cold calling andthat sort of thing.
You have to be brave to do that.
And shake someone's hand andpresent your product.
That was one of the biggest andmost useful skills that I
developed along the way.
And it helps with the trainingsometimes too, because you walk
(11:36):
into a a room, we train biggroup of people, 50 people, 60
people in a room at the sametime, and then it's you.
You've gotta own your.
and the sales training was a bighelp towards understanding how
to do that.
Yes, I convinced myself early inmy career that I wasn't any good
(11:57):
at sales.
And it turned out later when Ifound something I was passionate
about, I was very good at sales.
So you never know.
Sometimes you underestimateyourself.
And sales sounds scary.
It does.
Talking to people you don't knowsounds.
But sometimes you just, goforward and you do, like you
said, you figure out the points,what you need to know and you go
do it.
(12:17):
Yep.
And and it gets more comfortableover time.
It does.
It really does.
Yeah.
How about there's a lot ofdiscussion lately about
advocates and mentors and howthey're different now, advocate
and mentor are different.
What are some of the ways thatpeople could find advocates and
mentors for themselves to helpadvance their careers?
(12:38):
I think a couple of things.
One of'em is you come into anorganization, you need to look
around first.
Who's in here in the first.
And what is get, take thetemperature of the folks in
there.
There are some people who cantell you, but they're not good
mentors.
Everybody's not a good mentor.
(12:59):
They might be a good advocatewho, who here is on, but look at
right now.
Who here is on my side and wantsto see my project, my
initiative, whatever it is, moveforward.
And for that person, you need ayou need an advocate.
somebody who's gonna go into themeeting with the CEO or whoever
(13:20):
is the next level up in yourgroup and say, that's a good
program that putting together.
Take a look at it and a mentor.
You need somebody who's going totake time with you and help
groom you and get you to thenext level.
How to, how the company works orhow to move up the ladder or
whatever.
It's, and that you needsomebody.
(13:43):
Who is willing to put in thetime who you can stick your head
in their door and say, what justhappened?
they won't tell you.
They'll tell you the good andthe bad and they'll help you
work on the things that you needto improve.
And it's not, and these folks,whether it's the advocate or the
(14:07):
mentor, are not a dime a dozen.
but you need to pick somebodywho is you feel comfortable
talking with and to get back tobravery some and go in, I need
somebody to help me.
Do you have a few minutes?
And when I say a few minutes, Ireally do mean a few minutes.
(14:27):
Pick a time.
We have 15, 20 minutes, and at19 minutes you're standing up
and you're getting ready toleave.
Can you help me?
I'm trying to navigate theorganization.
I'm trying to navigate what'sgoing on around here.
I have a program that I wannapresent and I need to know how
to move it through theorganization.
(14:47):
Can you help me figure that out?
Or if you can't, do you knowsomebody who could and then be
quiet?
That's great.
Gonna ask.
any other suggestions you wouldoffer for people looking to
advance in their careers, thingsthat they should think about?
(15:08):
One of the big ones is beprepared.
I have been in places wherepeople now fumbling around
looking for paper pens, looklike you're ready to do.
if you're trying, ifparticularly if you're young and
moving in, or you're the they'rebringing in people of color and
(15:29):
yes, everybody should be ratedthe same and all that.
That's nice.
And reality is you're the newperson, whatever that means.
And you can't come in.
Somebody calls you into ameeting and you just walk in.
Huh?
really just a minute you go andget something to write with you,
(15:51):
get you a pen.
I think I'm on my way.
And then you go ready to takenotes, write something down,
pretend to write somethingbecause then you look like I'm
here to participate as opposedto wandering around.
That's one of the things.
(16:11):
the ability to write forbusiness is another key thing
that young people, and I'm sadto say, many older folks as well
do not do well.
Business writing is not the sameas writing a book.
(16:31):
Business writing is to thepoint, what do I need?
1, 2, 3.
Net it out and send it, and itneeds to be spell checked.
It's not in text speak.
You don't know where this thingis going.
This is gonna represent you whenyou're not there.
So learn how to write asuccinct, concise, as old boss
(16:59):
used to say, pithy.
email document so that it tellsyou, tells people what you need
them to do, because that'ssomething that nobody's ever
gonna say.
If you just ran spell check,maybe I'd have promoted you.
But in reality, if you reallydid just run, spell check, they
might have promoted you.
It's one of the things that now,because they don't even do that,
(17:21):
so then they're never gonna tellyou that.
But that's one of the reasonswhy you may not.
Absolutely, yes.
Definitely seen that in actionbefore.
That's that's really greatadvice.
So shifting gears a little bitto talk a bit more about
diversity in the workplace andthe world has obviously changed
a lot.
There's a lot of new unspokenrules and people maybe don't
(17:44):
even realize some of the thingsthey're done, that they're doing
may no longer be appropriate oraccept.
what are some of the commonthings that you see happening,
maybe unintentional things thatpeople say or do to to women to
other mar, to marginalizedgroups that maybe they're
unaware are offensive?
(18:06):
There's a couple of things.
One thing happened the other daywhere somebody in my office, a
female in my office, wasbringing something.
From the garage into thebuilding.
It was great, big, heavysomething.
There was a guy who we had, whohad been through a diversity and
(18:27):
inclusion training at thebeginning, training and whatnot,
and he was at the top of thestairs watching her.
He and he stopped me later, saideverything in me wanted to go
and say, can I take that foryou?
But he was scared to say thatbecause he didn't want to be
(18:48):
seen as putting her down andshe's too weak to carry these
things in or whatever hisnatural gentlemanly tendencies
he brought, he started toquestion, what should I do?
And a lot of people feel thatway.
I told him, you should have justgone.
Let me give you a hand and lether say, no, I got it.
(19:10):
But people don't know what to doand they're afraid they're gonna
say the wrong thing and hurtsomeone's feelings, or somehow
make a demeaning statementunintentional.
So as you said, it'severything's changed so quickly
and everybody's walking oneggshells.
That is one of the things thatjust happened recently.
(19:34):
There's.
Things that are in the lexiconthat you don't realize what
you're saying to somebody.
And cause everybody says thatthey're little phrases like,
Patty Wagon, we're gonna put youin the patty wagon.
And every ha that was a anegative connotation for Irish
(19:58):
people back in the day.
Indian giver, things like that,that people don't even think
about until the person for whomthat implied that is targeted
towards is, comes back andthey're stunned or they feel
(20:19):
hurt by you.
Why would he say that?
And that.
So there's lots of things thatpeople don't realize that
they're saying.
and it's gonna take a minute.
Yeah.
So what does someone do ifthey're trying to do the right
thing?
They're trying to create aninclusive environment.
(20:40):
And, but they've done it wrongand they didn't get it right.
What I mean, is it better just.
It, leave it as it is, don'tmess with it.
Or, you could make it worse.
Or, what advice would you giveto people who, maybe said
something and then it dawns onthem that wasn't the right thing
to say?
It's an apology.
(21:01):
It's.
It.
There was a lady in my officeand I was talking to her the
other day and I called her.
I called her Amy, the other ladyin her group.
Amy is Asian.
She's Asian, and I had beentalking to her for a few
(21:25):
minutes, I realized, oh mygoodness, this is not this
woman's name.
Oh my gosh.
To just slink away implies thatyou'll have to get over it.
But I stopped, and I am sosorry.
That's not your name.
Your name is Kim.
I am so sorry she was okay withit, whatever, but at, but I made
(21:48):
the mistake.
I owe her the apology.
If somebody steal something ordoes something, then go to
somebody and say, this is whathappened the other day.
I'm, I hope you weren'toffended.
That was not my intention.
That's all you can say.
You don't, you can't speak forthem.
You should get over it.
You should be all right.
That was not my intention.
(22:11):
I don't wanna do anything tohurt your feelings or make you
feel uncomfortable.
My apologies.
And then again, the power ofsilence.
Walk away if they wanna saysomething else they can for the.
short apology is your best bet.
(22:31):
Thank you.
That's super helpful.
It's all very different now, soYes.
It's good to, to get some adviceon that.
And I'm also curious you diddiversity training in 2000,
2001.
and you just recently did fourdays of d e I training.
for for a group that you work.
How has the message changed andwhat are some of the key
(22:53):
takeaways that are things youwant people to know today?
It is so incredibly different inthe past 20 years.
It's stunningly different.
At first, if we were talkingabout race and gender, a little
bit about sexual orientation,though, people didn't want to
talk too much about that.
(23:13):
that's as far as it got.
You would talk about what youcan't say and you can't say
racial epithets and things likethat, that you should and
shouldn't say.
But now it's much more, it's sobroad where it's the pronouns
that you have to think aboutand.
that things are on the spectrumof gender.
(23:37):
You can be a really girly, girlygirl, or you could be somebody
who's got a more masculineapproach to life and still being
female.
It's, there are, there's allthose elements to consider.
There's culture, it's holidays.
used to 20 years ago, peoplethought nothing of, we have
(23:59):
Christmas off at our companiesand that's it.
I don't celebrate Christmas.
What am I supposed to do now?
I'm Jewish.
What about Han?
It's the, it's expansive to thepoint of being a little scary
for everyone where people wantto.
(24:20):
Celebrate their difference, butthey also still wanna fit in.
So it's back and forth foreverybody.
So as you're talking aboutdiversity what now?
I think we're at awareness.
We don't, I don't think that theculture of America or the
(24:41):
culture of the world is that wehave a solution.
We don't have a solution.
We have awareness.
And awareness can be a littleoverwhelming but necessary to
understand that these are thethings you have to consider.
You can't just decide that thisperson who was born as a male is
(25:01):
going to have to deal with thefact, I'm gonna call you.
He, whether you want it or not.
I So you know, we have to acceptand we have to learn to accept
the differe.
Of people.
It's not just what we are usedto.
It's not about you.
(25:21):
That's great.
It's hard.
It's different and it is hard.
So do you have another piece ofadvice, maybe you could offer
one last piece of advice for ourviewers that you think they
should know or think about?
I do a lot.
With business image, and this isanother thing that's gotten to
(25:46):
be, it's a big change over thelast two years, It was starting
to become more casual beforethat, but now all beds are off,
and as people are coming backinto the offices, even if it's
on a hybrid system and evensometimes over.
(26:10):
There's a professional level youstill need to achieve because
you are in a bus.
I'm just talking about workstuff.
Now you're in a businessenvironment.
If you had gone, if you were atthe office and they said, let's
all meet in the meeting room,would you really be naked?
(26:31):
Yeah, And I say that it soundsfacetious, but I've had more
than a few people call me andsay, you please you.
Could you say this to somebody?
naked t-shirts that saysomething that's frightening
across the front.
Hair, not corn.
(26:52):
What's in the background?
People have had all sorts ofthings that from x-rated to
dangerous in, in the background.
You're sitting there and peopleare listening to you and looking
at what is that on their wall.
It's all these sorts of thingsthat we have to think about, but
(27:15):
how you present in yourworkspace, whether.
Virtually or face-to-facematters because it speaks to
your judgment.
So do you look like you couldsee a customer?
Do you look like you shouldleave a team?
(27:36):
Do you look like you know whatyou're talking about?
And that goes.
Through a whole spectrum ofthings.
If you are on the IT team andyou're going to be installing
equipment and things like that,and you show up in a three piece
suit, people are worried, whereare you going?
This is not what the jobrequires.
(27:56):
Conversely, you're in the officeand you've got customers to see
and you've got the distressed.
And a Grateful dead t-shirt and14 earrings and purple hair
Because now no one's listeningto you.
They're looking at this outfit.
(28:20):
Yeah.
And you could have the cure forcancer.
You could be laying out the curefor cancer and nobody's.
because they're trying to figurewhy is your hair like that?
and adults do that becausethat's how the adult brain
works.
That's great advice.
All right, so before we wrap up,I wanna do a little lightning
round uhoh with you so that ourviewers can learn a little bit
(28:42):
more about you.
So my first question is, what isyour favorite hotel that you
would love to return to?
Oh, There is a hotel in SantaFe, New Mexico that has a spa.
(29:03):
It's in the, it's in the hills.
It's beautiful, and I havecompletely forgotten the name.
I thought about it this morningat six.
And now it's gone.
It'll come back to you with themoment that you need it.
And do you have a bucket listhotel?
A hotel that you hope to stay atone day?
(29:26):
There's a group of hotelsoverseas called the Smith
Hotels, and I have one of mybest friends and her husband
travel extensively and they goto Smith Hotels and they're all
boutique.
And they're, the service islovely.
The views are beautiful.
The rooms are lovely.
(29:46):
It's just the, it's a wholeatmosphere.
And she comes back and she sendspictures.
Thanks a lot, Oh, man.
They're beautiful.
They're absolutely beautiful.
And it's a ho it's hotels thatreally go that extra mile and do
something that's different.
You can get the regular cookiecutter.
(30:07):
Yep.
They are there so that you canfeel comfortable.
If you're at this hotel in DC orTulsa or Venezuela, you're gonna
get the same thing.
But the boutique hotels arejust, the Smith Hotels.
All right.
All right.
I'm adding that to my list.
What is your favorite movie?
(30:29):
It's such a girl.
you've got mail.
That is a good movie.
It's happy.
No one's ever hurt.
It's just cheerful.
There you go.
Favorite band or artist?
My favorite.
I have two artists that I love.
have an artist have been in, mysister and I have been in art
(30:49):
school from the age of four, andI love portraits and things and
pictures of.
Kaindi who did the he didpresident Obama's portrait for
the Portrait Gallery.
His work is beautiful.
I love him, and I like McEscher.
Mc Escher was an artist from thetwenties, 1920s, thirties, and
(31:13):
pencil drawings.
And he has the one where youhave the hand, drawing the other
hand, I love Mc.
That's wonderful.
That's wonderful.
And what is your idea of aperfect day?
Whew family in, food ordered.
Just we, my sister, my daughterand I do game.
(31:33):
And we have a ball just laughingnow.
My, my grandson who's nine now,has joined in, so he plays along
with us and we had about 20people here with game night over
the holidays.
And it was, and then you're justgonna stand back and say, this
is really wonderful.
That was a wonderful day.
(31:55):
that will stay with me.
That's a wonderful thing to lookforward to.
And I'm hoping we'll all be backtogether at the holidays again
this year.
we all missed that recently.
All right thank you so much,Sylvia.
I really appreciate your timeand you're just such a wealth of
knowledge and and just to shareyour perspective, I really
appreci.
Your time and your time.
Thank you very much for invitingme.
This has been a lot of fun.
(32:18):
Thank you.
All right.
Take care.
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