March 13, 2025 • 54 mins
Have you ever felt like your creative soul is crying out for space to breathe, but you can't quite hear what it's saying? This conversation with Katie Dalebout, author of "Let It Out: A Journey Through Journaling," might just be the permission slip you need to start listening.
Katie's journey with journaling began during her recovery from an eating disorder when she intuitively reached for a colorful journal instead of another self-help book. What followed was a profound discovery—journaling provided a sanctuary where she could be completely honest about both her deepest fears and loftiest dreams without judgment. "It was the first time I was able to take all the masks off," Katie shares, "to just see who I was and get to know myself."
The beauty of journaling lies in its versatility and healing power. Katie distinguishes between "maintenance journaling" (daily check-ins) and "SOS journaling" (emergency processing during life's challenges), comparing the practice to cleaning out a closet—things get messier before they get better. This metaphor perfectly captures why timing matters with journaling, as we sometimes need adequate space and energy to handle whatever emerges during the process.
For creative souls, journaling serves as an essential tool for capturing ideas, making decisions, and maintaining creative momentum. Katie references Elizabeth Gilbert's powerful insight that "unused creativity is not benign," suggesting that neglecting our creative impulses leads to resentment and disconnection. "If I've touched a creative project daily," Katie notes, "I'm more pleasant to be around, more present, and more supportive of others."
Whether you're a seasoned journaler, skeptical about the practice, or simply curious, this conversation offers fresh perspective on what putting pen to paper can truly do for your creative wellbeing. Ready to crack open your perspective on journaling and discover the wisdom already waiting within you? Grab your favorite pen—your future self will thank you.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I'm Carla Reeves, and this is Differently.
Whether you feel stuck insurvival, navigating a change or
seeking more for your life, maythis podcast be your weekly
nudge to take a risk to build alife that is uniquely bold,
authentic and in alignment withyour deepest values.
What if you worried less aboutthe bumps in the road and
(00:23):
instead got equipped for thejourney?
Get ready to rethink what'spossible.
This episode is especially formy deep thinkers, big feelers
and creative souls.
If you've been listening for awhile, you know journaling has
changed my life.
Today's conversation was somuch fun for me.
I sat down with Katie Dale about.
(00:44):
She's the author of let it out,which is a field guide for
finding emotional well-beingthrough writing.
She's a fellow creative.
She leads creative workshops,has a podcast or two of her own
and more.
Regardless of whether you lovejournaling, hate it or want to
start it, I invite you to letthis conversation rain on you
and stir your thinking aboutwhat journaling truly is.
(01:08):
I promise this conversation isgoing to crack open your
perspective on what putting pento paper can really do for your
creative soul.
Grab a seat and get ready for aconversation about life,
journaling, creativity andnavigating the ups downs and
in-betweens of this beautifullife.
Hey, differently listener, I'mso glad that you're back for
(01:31):
another episode, and I don'tknow about you, but I've been
feeling like there is a lot ofchange in the air and I feel
like some of the ways in whichwe approach life and move
through life are changing at amore rapid pace than maybe we've
been used to, and I think it'smore important now than ever to
have tools in our pocket thathelp us to navigate and move
(01:55):
through life.
And today I have Katie Daleabout with me and I'm so excited
.
We've been trying to connectfor a while and everything
finally aligned, so welcome,katie, to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, I think we first startedbooking this in the fall and we
both had to switch it a coupletimes and then now for people
listening, and then now forpeople listening.
It's March of the next year andwe both were so committed to.
(02:32):
I feel like when that happenswith rescheduling, sometimes
things evaporate.
but you texted me and you werelike I feel like we're meant to
connect, so thanks for and Ifelt the same way and I just I
really today's like the perfectday to be doing this.
I have the energy and it's youknow I'm stoked to be talking to
you.
So sometimes I feel like if youput that out there with someone
that you know that it's goingto happen and it won't evaporate
(02:54):
.
Waiting for the right time isuseful.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I think that's so true and I think it is the
perfect time.
So it's super exciting for meto talk to, like a fellow
journaler, a fellow writer,somebody who loves that practice
as much as I do, I believe.
So I would love to hear justwhere did that start for you?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, it's so funny.
I'm usually on the other sideof this with my podcast, which
I'm stoked that you're going tocome on too, because I'm it's
like painful for me to not beasking you the same question,
because I so want to.
I want to know the same thing,but I have to, I have to to wait
until you come on my show.
(03:39):
But I and I and I'm sure we weshare this, but I'm I'm sure we
share this.
But I'm curious what it waslike for you.
But for me it was.
I didn't grow up journaling andI didn't keep a diary or
anything like that.
I wasn't particularly didn yearof college where I was actually
(04:16):
in treatment for an eatingdisorder, practices that I had
no idea existed into essentiallymeditation and personal growth,
and I was both doing yoga andteaching yoga as my job all
through college, and so thosethings were seeping in little by
(04:38):
little.
But it really wasn't until Iwas in that container of
treatment that I really doubleddown on those new ways of
thinking that came into my life.
And I'm from the Midwest, Igrew up in a small town in
Michigan and like the onlytherapy that I, I didn't really
(05:01):
understand what it was.
I think I saw it on TV but itwasn't something that we spoke
about.
It wasn't something that I evenwas really aware of what it was
or any sort of contemplationpractice and being in those
things.
You know, I used to say I wasso grateful for being in
(05:24):
treatment at that time becauseit got me into therapy so young.
But then now I'm moving here, Ilive in LA now and so many of
my friends like that was oldcompared to like they started
therapy, you know, when theywere kids and I've been doing it
ever since I was.
I I've reframed that a littlebit, but I was really in that
container and reading everysingle self-help book and really
(05:47):
getting into spirituality andfinding these things really
useful but also really making itmy identity.
I was also very into wellnessthe work that I still do in the
podcast that I host and at thetime it was a blog.
It started out very wellnessfocused and wellness in the
(06:07):
sense of, you know, green juiceand chia seeds and yoga, and now
I've broadened that out becausearound that time, when I was so
into wellness and self-help andpersonal growth, it became my
identity and it became mydifferentiator.
It became a rebellion.
(06:28):
You know, where I grew up, thatthere wasn't even like a health
food store, like it, was sointeresting.
It differentiated me in a way.
I think I liked if I can lookback on it now, if I can look
back on it now, and anyway.
So one day I was having a toughtime, you know, because I had
(06:54):
graduated college and trying tofigure out what was next.
I wanted to keep doing this blogthat I was doing.
I wanted to keep teaching yoga,but I also wanted to have money
and live on my own and move away, which I grew up in a college
town and I went to school at theuniversity where I grew up, so
I'd never left home for collegeand I really it was an
(07:15):
unsettling moment to be not onlyhome, living with my mom, but
also in this space where Ineeded a lot of care and
attention and I felt veryconfined, I think, and when, at
this time, when I felt like Iand my peers were moving to
(07:38):
cities and getting their firstjobs and having all these
experiences that were fun andeffervescent and I was, you know
, on this different pathcompletely but going all in and
I'm such an extremist, so Ireally went all in on the
self-help stuff and a little bitoff the deep end with it, I
(08:01):
think, because it became kind ofisolating.
So anyway, all of that to say,there was this moment where I
had this gift card aftergraduation to a bookstore and I
went straight to the self-helpdepartment as I normally would,
and I'm like looking at allthese books and I'm like
(08:21):
wondering which one will give methe answers to feel the freedom
that I wanted and all my hopesand dreams come true, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And I wandered Just that.
Yeah, just no big deal.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I wandered right on out of that section into the
stationary section instead, andI bought this colorful journal
and I nobody told me to do that,and it wasn't something that,
in therapy, was suggested to me,it wasn't something that I'd
even like read about.
It was a real intuitive likewow.
(08:55):
I feel like the answer is maybeinside me and not in any of
these bozos on the shelf youknow.
So I I took this journal and Iwould sit outside.
It was summer and I would sitoutside on a little blanket and
I just would write in it.
And one of the jobs that I hadfor it at that during this time
was I essentially I got paid tolike be able to be on my
(09:18):
computer.
Because I worked at a studiothat rented video equipment to
students, because I studiedbroadcast journalism, I wanted
to be a TV news reporter but Iwas like too weak and I was too
like I was recovering, so Icouldn't really go do that job
that I had studied and I alsocouldn't like I couldn't do much
(09:39):
.
So anyway, but I had a lot oftime to like sit on the computer
or write in my journal and Iused it all.
And I I was able in the journalto be for the first time
actually honest, actuallyauthentic and real that I was
(10:00):
having.
That I wouldn't want to admitto anybody else because I didn't
want to scare them.
And then I was also able toadmit these really lofty,
ambitious dreams and hopes andgoals for myself.
That I also didn't want to sayout loud because then I'd be
responsible for attempting toachieve them or people would
(10:20):
laugh at me and I wrote it allout and it made things feel real
.
It helped me sort through allthe and I wrote it all out and
it made things feel real.
It helped me sort through allthe thoughts I was having in my
brain.
It helped me to be able toactually meditate more and be
able to, like sit with myuncomfortable feelings because I
like wrote the thoughts downand could sort through them and
decide which ones are true andwhich ones I wanted to handle in
(10:44):
a different way them and decidewhich ones are true and which
ones I wanted to handle in adifferent way.
And so, anyway, this is a verylong answer, but essentially I
started it back then and then Icontinued and I learned about
Julia Cameron's Morning Pagesand the Artist's Way and I did
many, many practices of that andit just became my tool for
(11:04):
everything.
And I don't know if you've seenmy Big Fat Greek Wedding, the
Wendex analogy, like it was myWendex and I suggested it to
friends and, yeah, it changed mylife and I still do it now.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh my gosh, I love all that so much.
I love that you said it's thetool for everything, like I'm
going to start saying thatbecause I totally feel that way
too it is.
It's a creative playground,it's a.
It's so many things, so there'sso many places I want to go.
(11:41):
But the first question I haveis that where the name of your
Let it Out podcast came from.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, so well, the name of the podcast was just
taken from the name of my book,that's right, you have a book
called that too, right.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, the book is called.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Let it Out, a Journey Through Journaling, a journey
through journaling, but in 20,.
So I was very into self-help,as I was saying, and I kept
recommending journaling topeople.
So I was working with peopleone-on-one through teaching yoga
and through just mentoringpeople at that time and I,
(12:22):
anytime a friend would come tome with like any, like a
relationship issue or like abody image thing, I would always
go back to like have you likejournaled on about that?
And it was almost sort ofembarrassing, like you know, and
I would give them prompts.
So I would say, like, why don'tyou write, to your intuition, a
letter about this or ask thisquestion?
(12:43):
And I realized that if you aska good question, you can
probably get a good answer ifyou give yourself enough time
and space.
And so I was giving out theseprompts and it was working for
other people who weren't me.
And anyway, very, very longstory short, I ended up getting
a book deal with Hay House.
Short.
(13:05):
I ended up getting a book dealwith Hay House, which is this
publisher that I loved and I wasa big mentor of mine wrote the
foreword.
Her name's Gabby Bernstein.
She's written a bunch of booksnow and at the time I think
she'd only written two and yeah,that was about 2014.
And so I wrote this book and Iwas working a full time job
alongside of writing the book,and I was working a full-time
job alongside of writing thebook and I think I'd already
(13:26):
yeah, I think I'd alreadystarted the podcast.
Yeah, I had, because it startedin 2013.
So I had done it for about ayear and I got this book deal
and, yeah, let it out Like, letthe thoughts out of your mind so
you can sort through them anddecide which ones to listen to,
which ones are holding you back.
And it came from, actually, mymom when I was sick, and I
(13:47):
wonder if you've ever said thisto your boys but whenever I had
like a cold or even if I waslike throwing up, she would
always be like let it out, yougot to get it out, you got to
get it out, to feel better, andso I think it's kind of true
with the thoughts in your mindand so that's where it came from
.
And then, yeah, the podcast hada different name actually to
(14:09):
start, and then my publisher waslike you should put everything
under that name, and I'm happy Idid, because it feels like it
does.
Even now.
I've evolved so much more, butI feel like that name can be
pretty malleable to cover it all.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That's beautiful.
So, like you were going throughyour treatment in this healing
process and journaling like, doyou attribute a lot of your
healing to the journalingprocess?
I'm assuming that you do, butwas that a huge part of your
recovery?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, I mean, and like recovery is so ongoing for
me even with that.
It's something that you know.
I don't know really what mygame plan was there.
I was so young thinking that Iwould get to a point where I
would just like feel great aboutmy size and body and eating and
(15:09):
food and vanity, and I don'tthink I ever thought that, maybe
.
But I've definitely had periodsof it being challenging and
more challenging and lesschallenging, and so it was
helpful back then because I wasable to just unpack.
I finally had this tool thatallowed me to I guess I already
(15:36):
said this but like be real, liketo be honest and I think I was
just wearing masks all the timeto fit in or to chameleon to
what people wanted, to have someacceptance and belonging, and I
think so many of us do that and, and it was the first time I
was able to like take all ofthat off, to just like see who I
(15:57):
was and get to know myself.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And it it.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You know what it helped me?
It helped the thing that itreally did.
That is the part that changedmy life, that I even, like I
didn't even realize until Istarted talking.
It gave me self-awareness, andthat's continued, because I
often, you know and I think lotsof writers say this but I don't
(16:21):
know what I'm feeling orthinking unless I'm writing,
unless I'm journaling, like Ioften will just feel off or bad
and disconnected, and until Istart to sit down and start
processing things on my own, Idon't know why and I don't know
where things come from and Idon't know how to make it better
(16:44):
.
But if I just give myself sometime, I can usually figure it
all out.
I can kind of know where itcomes from, I can process it and
the beautiful thing about andJulia Cameron, I think, talks
about this with morning pageswhen you write, she suggests
three full pages and I don't dothat practice exactly, but
(17:05):
anymore, or like that fullyconsistently, I do a different
thing, but I do find that when Ihave a significant amount of
time or like a certain amount ofpages, even if I don't want to
be doing that amount but I'vecommitted to it, our brains tend
to and I wonder if this hasbeen your experience self-soothe
(17:29):
as they go down the page.
So I've noticed that, you know,I might start off saying you
know, everything is horrible,this is so bad, but no matter
what, by the end I'm solutionoriented it starts to sound like
, yes, it's bad, but here's howit could be better, and that has
been tremendously helpfulthrough all of the iterations of
(17:54):
eating disorders and just allsorts of things that have
happened since that time in mylife, you know, 12 years ago,
and I think now I'm aging, youknow, and I think I'm.
That's something that isinteresting because with the
(18:16):
body image stuff, where I waslike when I was a kid, when I
was having such trouble withfeeling okay in my own skin, I
aging just like, like wasn'teven something I thought about
because it felt, you know, Icould kind of couldn't really
conceptualize it Like I guess ifI really thought about it, I
probably would have been likeyou're probably not going to be
great at that, since you weren'tso great at like, you know, the
(18:38):
body stuff when you wereyounger.
But now, you know I'm, I'mnearly 35.
And when I turned 30, I wasjust kind of like oh, I'm like
basically still in my twentiesand then it goes quick where
suddenly I'm, you know, not notonly feeling the, the like
physicality of it and just likestarting to notice things, but
(19:00):
also just the where I'm at in mylife, where my friends are at
in our lives, our parentsgetting older, like it's really
confronting, you know, likebecause when you see the gray
hairs or the wrinkles orwhatever it's beyond vanity,
it's like well, we're likeplummeting towards death you
know, and so.
I think contemplating all ofthat in a journaling sort of way
(19:23):
has been useful too, and soit's just kind of like the
practice is stagnant, but theproblems stay the same, and so
I'm just so happy that I havethat framework to return to.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well, I love that you answered the question when I
asked about your recovery.
That it's, you know, that it's.
It's not like a destination,right, it's like an ongoing
thing.
And I feel like I've had, I'venoticed, like I've picked up old
journals, which I don't do allthat often, but I've gone back
and looked and I'm like, oh mygosh, like I'm struggling with
(20:00):
this, I'm struggling withconfidence 10 years ago, like
what's wrong with me, you know?
But what I've realized over theyears is that usually those
core things like they don'tnecessarily go away, they just
evolve and like look a littlebit different.
But I probably will benavigating that always on some
little level, you know, and Ithink that that's such a
(20:22):
beautiful response, and I I'vehad clients who are journaling,
who are frustrated becausethey're like, why am I not
making progress on this thing?
And I'm reflecting back to themlike you have made progress on
this thing.
This topic or subject may stillcome up and it may always be
the place For me.
Navigating, being bold andbeing brave and courageous in my
(20:46):
business has always been athing that I am like pushing the
edge on, you know, and so Ithink I don't know if you feel
this way, but I feel like that'strue for all of us, that we may
have certain things that we're.
We will always be navigating insome way and that's sort of
like our.
It's like where we get refined,you know.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Completely, yeah, completely.
I totally agree that there arejust a few things.
It's like well, that's my,that's my work this time around
and it's it is.
It's frustrating, I think,being someone who journals,
because it it's in our themirror is put up to be aware of
it.
You know, I think the biggestthing that journaling helps with
(21:29):
is self-awareness, and soyou're.
Sometimes it's like ignoranceis bliss because you don't have
to put the mirror in your faceto what needs to change or what
could change.
It's just when you but it'sbetter to when you know better,
you can do better, but sometimesyou don't do better, but then
you're aware that you didn't dobetter you know.
(21:49):
So it's like you said looking atthose old journals and being
like, oh man, but yeah, I thinkit's part of it.
I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So you also mentioned self-soothe and I think that
that's something that you knowif someone's listening who maybe
hasn't really gotten all theway in.
Like you said, double down onjournaling.
Journaling is such a tool forself-reflection and like seeing
yourself, understanding yourmind and your thoughts and your
(22:18):
relationship to those thoughts,and I feel like now more than
ever, we need to build thismuscle of self, being able to
self soothe.
And for me to, like you said,journaling like you can just
kind of know something's off andfor me to that's like my
indicator, like I just need togo right for like five or 10
(22:38):
minutes and I'll figure out whatis really bugging me.
So I would love for you cause Ialso had somebody ask this
question recently aboutjournaling so like once you're,
once you get it, you get it LikeI had the pay, the experience,
like you did, of that,experiencing your real self,
(23:03):
where, like I felt like thisgirl danced across the page of
my journal one day when I firststarted and I'm like I want to
know her.
She's real.
And like I too had had so muchpretending and putting on and
trying to be what I thought Iwas supposed to be and like all
the things right.
But when I saw her, like that'swhat kept me going, like I want
(23:25):
to know her.
And once I got to know her morein my journal, she started to
spill out into my everyday life.
You know, and I would love toknow for you, like for someone
who hasn't had that moment yet.
Know for you, like for someonewho hasn't had that moment yet,
(23:45):
like what was it that kept youwriting before you got hooked?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, no, it does.
I mean, I think, to be honest,I, similarly to you, I think it
happened pretty quickly Like Ithink, pretty quickly I was just
like, oh, this makes me feelbetter.
I don't really know why Iwouldn't have been able to
articulate back then certainlyself-awareness, or being what I
(24:14):
now know as being a verbalprocessor, using it for decision
making.
Like I wouldn't have known whybut, pretty soon after doing it.
I just wanted to do it more so.
But I think I can still answerthe question in my own way,
(24:35):
which is that often once I onceI did start like said I didn't
want to stop, I found it useful.
However, still now, often I andthis is a question I've gotten
from people about it as well Iwon't want to do it, and now I
(25:00):
know why.
Usually it's I.
I need to do it, but I don'twant to do it because it, like I
was saying before, you know,journaling puts the mirror up to
your face to see what's goingon and to see your part in it
and to have to confront thingsand face them.
(25:21):
And when I want to live indelusion about something, the
last thing I want to do is putthe time in a journal.
Or if I just really know thatsomething is painful and I know
I'm going to get moreinformation on that and have to
feel the feeling of that, Ioften will avoid it, and so I
(25:45):
think that's fine.
I think that's part of it.
I used to think I advisedmyself and other people
differently of like just do itconsistently and push yourself,
and I don't really believe thatanymore.
I think you know, as usconnecting, I believe in timing
of things and of course you knowthat that's too, too, not
(26:10):
taking that to an extreme.
Sometimes you do have to forceyourself and sit down and just
knock it out, but I thinkultimately I will do that Like
when I have the time and spaceand the container and like
support to do that.
I'll do it because often I whatI'm doing is it is
(26:33):
self-protection and not notjournaling, sometimes where, if
I know it's going to be prettyemotional and it's just sort of
like how we don't want to likego into an emotion.
You know, when you're in likethe back of a taxi cab in New
York and you're like on your waysomewhere, you know, sometimes
(26:54):
I'm like I it's kind of likecleaning my closet, like doing a
really deep journaling sessionwhere I'm like, all right, I'm
going to like sit here for awhile and sort this out.
Sometimes you can do, like yousaid, that little spurt, and I
totally know what that's likeand I, I, I like that too.
But sometimes if I'm reallygoing to like, like for I think
a good example is like when arelationship ends or when you're
in a relationship and it's likesomething's not quite right and
(27:17):
you really need to like kind oflook at your part and look at
their part and really sort thatout, like that's not part of the
mate.
I in the book I make adistinction between maintenance
journaling and what I call SOSjournaling, and so maintenance
is kind of the checking in thedaily habit of it all that you
might not even get that deepwith and it might turn into like
a to-do list still helpful.
(27:40):
But the SOS journaling is likewhen you turn to it and when you
feel like you're pregnant withsomething you need to process,
like when you really need to letout some emotion and sort
through, and that's somethinglike much like you know, having
a therapy session, likesometimes if I have a chance to
talk to my therapist at like 1pm and I'm like trying to work,
(28:01):
I'm probably not going to likeopen up completely and like
process a painful experience inmy life.
I'm probably just going to likekeep it pretty surface because
I have like a meeting after youknow and I can't be crying, and
so it's the same thing withjournaling that sometimes I know
I just I just will avoid doingit until I know I have the.
I'm going to be resourced andsupported and have time and
(28:24):
space to handle whatever comesup, because I was starting to
say before it's kind of likecleaning out your closet,
because it gets worse before itgets better.
Everything is going to come outand the guts of your closet are
all over your bed, so you're notgoing to do that like right
before you're hosting a party,because it's going to be messy,
so it's kind of like that,that's a great way to describe
(28:47):
that.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Like I clean my closet regularly, like I kind of
enjoy cleaning my closet andit's that's so, like I take
everything out and then organizeit and put it back, and that's
exactly what I do in a journal.
I kind of pour out my head andheart and then kind of look at
it all and try to make somesense of it and delete some
stuff that I don't want to hangon to and maybe add some things.
(29:10):
Yeah, it's such a great analogyor metaphor, whichever that is.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that makes so much sense
and, like you said, even thoughyou enjoy it, it doesn't change
the fact that it takes time.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, and it can be uncomfortable when you're like
looking at all the mess andyou're like, oh, I'm kind of
tired now I don't really want todeal with this.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, you have to have the energy for it and there
might be twists that you're notexpecting, like you put on a
sentimental item and you noticethat it doesn't fit, or you
notice that it's somethingthat's or whatever you know.
I think sometimes, like I feelthat way even with work or on my
phone, where it's like text,where I won't even open text in
(29:54):
the middle of the day and do itall at one time because I don't
know what's in there, like it'sa portal, like it could be
something like the best newsever or it could be like
something horrible, and Isometimes I'm just like I got to
focus on what's in front of meand then when I have some time,
I'll go there and not have tohold on to it while I'm trying
to focus elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, well, and I love that you um Well, and I
love that you describedjournaling in a way I was going
to go back to, but I think Ilost it, oh sorry.
That's okay.
Okay, so I want to kind of alsotalk about creativity.
How do the two tie together foryou, or do they?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
That's a good question.
Yeah, I think they definitelycertainly do.
The biggest thing is that Ioften they tie together in the
sense of capturing ideas.
You know, I think ideas kind ofcome from wherever and whenever
and sometimes I feel like I'mlike ducking and like you know,
(31:03):
and sometimes you miss them andsometimes you can swing at them
and hit them right away andoftentimes I think for me I'll
get an idea and I'll have tohold on to it until I have much
like the closet thing, likeuntil I have the time and space
to make it or share it or putenergy into it.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So it's about capturing ideas, organizing them
and then returning to them.
That's one way.
So you know, I constantly likewrite things in my phone and
then, in terms of creatively, Ithink, often an idea or when I'm
stuck writing about it andwriting about creative solutions
(31:48):
, like there are so many ways toend an essay, there are so many
ways to approach a painting oranything like that, and so I
think it's really helpful in alldecision making, and creativity
often is decision making, it'sfinding creative solutions to
(32:12):
problems, and I, as I've said,don't know what I'm thinking
unless I'm writing.
Can't make a decision to save mylife without writing about it
or talking to several friendsabout it, not necessarily to get
their thoughts and opinion andfeedback, but to figure out what
I think about something.
And so journaling is veryhelpful in that, and it's also
(32:38):
quite helpful in relationships,I think, because I don't have to
put that pressure on otherpeople to kind of give me the
answer, especially with creativeoptions.
I can get as far as I can on myown and then go to other people
with more specifics, and Ithink that's useful for getting
(33:01):
advice from others.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
You just said something that made me think
about.
You said, you know, like Ican't make a decision without
writing first, and that justmade me think about so for
myself.
Right, like we both talkedabout having like a lot of armor
or masks or protection.
(33:25):
Right, Like I spent half mylife trying to be who I thought
I was supposed to be, and I feellike the second half has been
like knocking all that down andcoming back to who I am and live
in the practice of living free,right, free right.
(33:47):
But I wonder if, becausejournaling, to me too, has been
so helpful to like find my ownanswers, find my own, you know,
like you said, to be able tomake a decision, like what do I
actually feel?
Because I have spent so much ofmy life looking over there,
thinking that somebody else knewbetter, or trying to get what I
already believe to be trueconfirmed by somebody else.
(34:07):
And I wonder if it's that trait, whether it's a lack of
confidence or whatever it is,that allows journaling to be so
helpful, because you can getquiet and quiet, all of that
external stuff to really listenin and find.
Like you said earlier, theanswers are inside and that's my
(34:30):
whole mission is to teachpeople like get quiet and go
inside, because you have accessto even far more than yourself,
right, like so much divinewisdom there.
But I just wanted to highlightthat.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I think that's so true.
I mean, I think that's whatpeople can get out of meditation
too.
I think anything that and I do,and I going on a really long
walk, journaling, meditating arekind of my three things that I
have to do all the time or I'mlike not quite right, you know,
and I think the through line inall of them are time alone,
(35:10):
space, like calming your nervoussystem, slowing down and, I
think, in a time where there'salways a message that could be
sent or there's always a screenthat could be looked at and you
could be entertained or youcould, you know, whatever and
then also to speak to youraudience.
(35:31):
In particular, I think, when youwork for yourself, what I've
found is that there's alwayshomework that could be done,
there's always another thing Icould do.
You just have to decide to stopat the end of the day and carry
it over tomorrow, becausethere's always more that could
be done.
And so I think in that sort oflifestyle, those things that
(35:56):
slow you down allow you to hearwhat is going, what's actually
happening, where we're oftenjust moving too fast to to be
able to hear that in ourintuition.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Essentially, it's so powerful.
So, going back to kind of thecreativity piece I am, saw
something you wrote that saidlike we're at our best when
we're wrestling with a projector like gathering inspiration
for an idea, and I just likethat, just like sunk into my
(36:32):
heart, like I'm like, oh, thatis so true for me, it is so true
for me, like, even if I don'thave something going on, I'm
creating a problem to solve,right, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's better if you're .
If you're, the problem you'recreating is one that's
productive.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yes, yes, yes.
So tell us about your creativeclasses or your creative clinic
and some of the things thatyou're working on right now,
that you're excited about.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, I mean I wrote that because lack of information
ultimately, but they're reallyfulfilling because they're very
creative.
Like you don't have all theinformation, so you're in your
head writing a story of what youwant it to be or what it could
be, or the potential you knowand so, if you can, I think that
(37:38):
everyone's crush self is theirbest self meaning, like the, the
optimism and the excitement andthe kind of euphoria that can
come with that ultimately.
You know, in that instance,sometimes that can be crushing,
you know when it ends or whenyou like see more of it.
But I think if you can applythat logic to always having
(38:00):
something to like you read, likebe wrestling with, or always be
in pursuit or always be lookingforward to something or having
a bit of anticipation, you know,and I find that I have to
(38:20):
cultivate that often and and wecan you know whether it's like
multiple things at the same time, of working on, you know, a
house project, or working on apiece of writing or or painting,
or you know finding creativesolution to whatever problem, I
think getting yourself into thatstate where you're, there's a
(38:45):
there has to be a little bit ofoptimism, there has to be a
little bit of confidence thatit's possible.
You know, sometimes I feel likeit's it's delusion, you know
helpful, you know a helpfuldelusion of like this could
exist.
Even if it, you have no reasonto believe that, based on past
experiences, you know you haveto have that.
Or else I think, honestly, Ithink we die, like I.
(39:11):
I heard this story once abouthow this person was the, the guy
who delivered the queen her redbox, I think it is, or black,
yeah, I think it's a red boxwith like the cards of like what
she does for the day.
And he asked her before shedied, he was like, when are you
going to retire?
Like, when are you going tostop doing this?
And she was like, oh, I can'tactually, because when I stop
(39:35):
doing this I'm going to die forsure, because we need and I saw
that with my grandparents, likeas soon as they didn't have like
a purpose or a direction at all, like they just went, you know,
and I I don't know that muchabout anything, but about, you
(39:56):
know, that topic really.
But I guess I just see it inmyself.
I get very depressed, I getvery anxious about relationships
and, like you said, I spendmyself a yarn on something not
(40:16):
only unimportant butcounterproductive.
If I'm not in pursuit ofsomething creatively and I think
that yeah, I think that we canif we can get ourselves into
that place more often, we aremore pleasant to be, or I'll
(40:37):
speak for myself I'm morepleasant to be around if I've
like touched a creative projectdaily, even if it's not much,
even if I've just made, becauseit gives you some momentum, you
know, it gives you some for me.
If I like have an idea ofsomething I want to write and I
(40:58):
just like jot down some notesabout it, or I like make some
edits on something, or I get anidea and I end up doing the
whole thing and sharing it inone day, or like whatever it is.
As long as I'm taking like afew steps in the direction of
some of my creative projects, Ican go to dinner with someone
(41:18):
that night and like be reallypresent there and be a
supportive friend and I'm not isonly consuming.
And I think social media is agood example of this, where, if
I go on social media and I and Iand I want to say too it's a
privilege to be able to work onart, right, like it's a
(41:40):
privilege to be able to work onanything creative on a house
project, on a piece of writing,whatever it is.
You know, I, my mom, has workeda job for 45 years and, you
know, always says like I don'thave a creative bone in my body
and like I don't have time forART.
I have a J-O-B, you know, andthat is true, like it is such a
(42:00):
privilege and I now, you know,work like a million jobs and I
get frustrated when I don't havetime to put as much time as I
want to into a project.
However, I'm not as resentfulto the jobs I have to do to fund
my creativity or I'm notresentful to spending time with
(42:26):
other people and helping them ifI move something forward, move
the needle forward.
And what I was going to sayabout social media is that, like
when I get onto Instagram whenI haven't had the capacity or
the energy or the time to putinto my projects, and then I'm
on there and I see one friend'spublished a piece in a magazine
(42:51):
and another friend has done anart show and another friend, you
know, I'm I'm trying to conjurehappiness for them, but there's
a little part of me that's likemust be nice.
They can do their thing.
I had to work all day, you know, and so I.
However, when I, when I'm alsosharing my thing, that I wrote
(43:11):
and I'm completing some thingsand I'm getting some projects
over the net and I'm feelingcreatively fulfilled, when I see
my friends posting the magazineand posting the, the painting
and the video, I'm like I'm like, oh my God, that's incredible.
I'm so happy, I like that'sgreat.
So I don't, I want to be thelatter always.
So it's my responsibility to becreative every day and touch
(43:33):
those projects.
So I don't become resentful andbitter and if I look at it that
way, it's, it carries someweight.
You know, I heard ElizabethGilbert say once um, in a
conversation with Brene Brown.
They were saying unusedcreativity is not benign.
So basically, if you look at itlike that, it's actually you
(43:59):
know all of this.
You know it's kind of dramaticthe way I'm saying it, like if
you're not creative you'll die,but like kind of you know if
you're not creative you'll beresentful, but like kind of you
know, if you're not creative.
You'll be resentful, but like,kind of you know.
So I think having that weightbehind it helps people to
actually do it.
And that's what I do, you know.
To answer your question, myworkshops and in my what I call
the creative clinic, where Iwork with people one-on-one,
(44:19):
which is something I've done fora decade, and the way it
started was helping people, youknow, with journaling and with
self-awareness and with sortingthrough some of these thoughts
in their brain and helping toreorient themselves to what's
useful for them.
But with the creative clinicand focusing on creative
(44:43):
practice and living a creativelife.
Where that came from is that Ihad and it still exists.
I have a workshop that helpspeople start podcasts.
It's called um, the podcast kit, and I would do these live
calls for that and in thesecalls people could ask whatever
they wanted about the modulesand it was an eight module
(45:04):
course that helps everythingfrom, you know, coming up with a
concept and interviewing andthe technology of it and
monetizing it, all of it.
And I thought people would beasking questions on those topics
, like, you know, my microphoneor whatever, whatever.
And everybody's question inthese coaching calls was some
version of can I make my thing.
(45:26):
Like am I?
What is my friend from highschool going to think when I put
the podcast out?
Or how can you know?
And I was just givingpermission slip after permission
.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
I was just going to say permission, right.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Exactly, and so I was like all right, I think that
this is beyond podcasting, youknow, and so I was working with
people one-on-one in that, withthe creative clinic and in the
pandemic in 2020, I started this.
It was called CreativeUnderdogs and I renamed it to be
(45:58):
called In Process, butbasically it's people in process
, people getting everyone tostay in that state of wrestling
with something, and so we wouldall like do co-working together,
and I had guests come in andessentially it was keeping each
other inspired and accountableand and keeping that momentum up
, cause it's very easy tocontinue a creative practice.
(46:19):
It's not that hard, but it's.
For me, it's incrediblychallenging to begin or return
to one.
And it's the same thing withlike, if you haven't answered
emails or texts in in months, tolike go in there, it's like oh
God, uh.
But if you just like do alittle bit every day, it's like
not that big of a deal, and sothat's what, what, that, what I
(46:42):
help people do in those areas.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
That's beautiful, oh my gosh.
Well, I want to touch on acouple things before we start to
wind down and wrap up.
But you talked aboutresponsibility and you didn't
say self-discipline.
But I think a lot of what we'retalking about, you know, I
heard someone say this, or likeit dawned on me that like true,
(47:10):
I've never liked like self-care.
I feel like it's been takeninto so many things that I'm
like, ooh, like I want to getaway from that.
But true, self-care isself-discipline.
And like doing those thingsthat we know we need to do in
order to show up the way thatwe're committed to showing up.
And and then this piece aboutlike living a creative life and
(47:34):
and maybe maybe you're listeningand thinking that you're not a
creative, and, um, I used tothink that too, kind of like
your mom said, like I don't havea creative bone in my body,
like I used to feel that way.
And what I know now is alsoback to what you said is it's
like the air I breathe.
I don't know how I ever thoughtthat I wasn't creative.
I think because I thought itneeded to look like painting or,
(47:57):
you know, art in that sort offashion.
But I love to be creative andlike how I live my life, and we
have so many moments in our dayas we're just moving through it
to to be creative and toinfluence and have agency over,
you know, parts of our life andit's been the most beautiful
(48:18):
thing in my life and so, aswe're talking about you know,
having tools to move throughlife, I feel like you've just so
beautifully and vulnerably likearticulated so many things that
I know the listener has beentouched by something in this
conversation.
So tell us how can people findout more about what you're doing
(48:41):
?
Your podcast just two podcastsso make sure you tell them about
that and anything else thatyou're excited about.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Thanks.
Well, yeah, you know I host ashow called Let it Out where I
interview people, and I've beendoing it since 2013.
So there's a pretty robustarchive and I love it.
I get to speak to people likeyou, carla, and I get to meet so
many people through throughdoing that over the years, I'm
(49:11):
starting to forget, like somepeople that I've interviewed,
it's, it's nuts.
And so, yeah, I I, that is, newepisodes every week.
And then I I co-hosted a secondshow with my friend, serena Wolf
, about anxiety.
It's called Spiraling and wehaven't done a season in a while
(49:34):
, but we'll probably bring itback at some point with the
archives there.
We call it a humorous mentalhealth show, so that's really
fun to co-host.
And then, yeah, I work withpeople one-on-one with creative
consulting.
So, if anyone, I have two spotsopen right now.
So if anybody wants to learnmore about that, the link will
probably be in the show notesand I will probably run creative
(49:58):
underdog slash in process againat some point.
I don't know if I'll win or ifI probably I hope to, but I'm
not really sure when that'sgoing to be.
But in the meantime, I have mybook is called Let it Out.
It's been a couple of yearssince it I guess it'll be almost
10 years since it came out, butit's still available and that's
(50:19):
55 journaling prompts and my alot of what we talked about
today.
So that is of interest topeople.
But I also have somethingcalled that's a bit more current
, of an offering related to thecontent in the book.
It's called the right kit.
So I have these different kitson my website that, if you go to
let it out, kitscom, the rightkit is journaling prompts and
(50:42):
it's a lot of the similarcontent from the book but
updated, and there's also aninterview with a writer in there
.
It's not only just writing foremotional wellness journaling
essentially but also writing tobe shared.
So I talk about that bit a bitand I have some other journaling
kits.
One of them is called I haveabout breakups actually.
(51:06):
So there's a two part writingfor emotional wellness and, yeah
, I call it the breakups kit.
So there's the soothe kit andthe solve kit.
The soothe kit is for, like,when you're fresh out of a
breakup and you just need tokind of soothe yourself, and
then the solve kit is when youcan actually go into the journal
and mine it for therelationship for gems of
(51:28):
self-awareness and and moveforward.
So, yeah, that's kind of Ithink that's kind of everything.
I made a couple of zines umrecently.
So if you and I have a substack, that's kind of the main
place I've been putting myenergy and what I'm most excited
about, I think, right now iswriting on there so and anyone
can can read those for free.
But if you do become a paidsubscriber, I'll send you the
(51:50):
zines that I've made recently,um in the mail.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
I'm so inspired by all that you're doing.
I'm definitely going to take acloser look at that, and I
encourage you to look at all thethings, um, that Katie's doing
too.
And one last question for you,Katie what does differently mean
to you?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Oh, that's such a good question.
What's coming to me right nowis honesty, like a self honesty,
I think being the same is iseasy, it's autopilot, it's being
(52:35):
influenced.
But I think being differentrequires much of what we spoke
about today self-awareness, time, space, confidence and often
self-discipline and to bothfigure out what it is and to
(52:55):
embody it.
And so, yeah, I thinkdifferently means going against
the grain, which often takes apush of self-discipline and
understanding what direction youis different from what you've
been doing or what other peopleare doing.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
That's so beautiful.
Thank you so much for spendingthis time with me.
Thank you.
I loved every minute and Ican't wait for more.
Likewise, have an awesome dayeveryone.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Thank you, thanks for listening, thanks for having me
.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of
differently.
It's been an honor to sharethis conversation with you.
You know, one of the keys toliving fully is to take action
when you're inspired to do so.
I hope you found that spark ofinspiration today and would you
help us spread the word.
Did someone you know come tomind while you were listening?
(53:54):
If this episode could impactsomeone you know, please share
it and pass it along.
New episodes drop weekly, sotap that subscribe button and
join us next time as we continueto challenge the status quo and
get equipped to live lifedifferently.
I'm Carla Reeves, and this is Differently.
Whether you feel stuck insurvival, navigating a change or
seeking more for your life, maythis podcast be your weekly
nudge to take a risk to build alife that is uniquely bold,
authentic and in alignment withyour deepest values.
What if you worried less aboutthe bumps in the road and
(00:23):
instead got equipped for thejourney?
Get ready to rethink what'spossible.
This episode is especially formy deep thinkers, big feelers
and creative souls.
If you've been listening for awhile, you know journaling has
changed my life.
Today's conversation was somuch fun for me.
I sat down with Katie Dale about.
(00:44):
She's the author of let it out,which is a field guide for
finding emotional well-beingthrough writing.
She's a fellow creative.
She leads creative workshops,has a podcast or two of her own
and more.
Regardless of whether you lovejournaling, hate it or want to
start it, I invite you to letthis conversation rain on you
and stir your thinking aboutwhat journaling truly is.
(01:08):
I promise this conversation isgoing to crack open your
perspective on what putting pento paper can really do for your
creative soul.
Grab a seat and get ready for aconversation about life,
journaling, creativity andnavigating the ups downs and
in-betweens of this beautifullife.
Hey, differently listener, I'mso glad that you're back for
(01:31):
another episode, and I don'tknow about you, but I've been
feeling like there is a lot ofchange in the air and I feel
like some of the ways in whichwe approach life and move
through life are changing at amore rapid pace than maybe we've
been used to, and I think it'smore important now than ever to
have tools in our pocket thathelp us to navigate and move
(01:55):
through life.
And today I have Katie Daleabout with me and I'm so excited
.
We've been trying to connectfor a while and everything
finally aligned, so welcome,katie, to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me.
Yeah, I think we first startedbooking this in the fall and we
both had to switch it a coupletimes and then now for people
listening, and then now forpeople listening.
It's March of the next year andwe both were so committed to.
(02:32):
I feel like when that happenswith rescheduling, sometimes
things evaporate.
but you texted me and you werelike I feel like we're meant to
connect, so thanks for and Ifelt the same way and I just I
really today's like the perfectday to be doing this.
I have the energy and it's youknow I'm stoked to be talking to
you.
So sometimes I feel like if youput that out there with someone
that you know that it's goingto happen and it won't evaporate
(02:54):
.
Waiting for the right time isuseful.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
I think that's so true and I think it is the
perfect time.
So it's super exciting for meto talk to, like a fellow
journaler, a fellow writer,somebody who loves that practice
as much as I do, I believe.
So I would love to hear justwhere did that start for you?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yeah, it's so funny.
I'm usually on the other sideof this with my podcast, which
I'm stoked that you're going tocome on too, because I'm it's
like painful for me to not beasking you the same question,
because I so want to.
I want to know the same thing,but I have to, I have to to wait
until you come on my show.
(03:39):
But I and I and I'm sure we weshare this, but I'm I'm sure we
share this.
But I'm curious what it waslike for you.
But for me it was.
I didn't grow up journaling andI didn't keep a diary or
anything like that.
I wasn't particularly didn yearof college where I was actually
(04:16):
in treatment for an eatingdisorder, practices that I had
no idea existed into essentiallymeditation and personal growth,
and I was both doing yoga andteaching yoga as my job all
through college, and so thosethings were seeping in little by
(04:38):
little.
But it really wasn't until Iwas in that container of
treatment that I really doubleddown on those new ways of
thinking that came into my life.
And I'm from the Midwest, Igrew up in a small town in
Michigan and like the onlytherapy that I, I didn't really
(05:01):
understand what it was.
I think I saw it on TV but itwasn't something that we spoke
about.
It wasn't something that I evenwas really aware of what it was
or any sort of contemplationpractice and being in those
things.
You know, I used to say I wasso grateful for being in
(05:24):
treatment at that time becauseit got me into therapy so young.
But then now I'm moving here, Ilive in LA now and so many of
my friends like that was oldcompared to like they started
therapy, you know, when theywere kids and I've been doing it
ever since I was.
I I've reframed that a littlebit, but I was really in that
container and reading everysingle self-help book and really
(05:47):
getting into spirituality andfinding these things really
useful but also really making itmy identity.
I was also very into wellnessthe work that I still do in the
podcast that I host and at thetime it was a blog.
It started out very wellnessfocused and wellness in the
(06:07):
sense of, you know, green juiceand chia seeds and yoga, and now
I've broadened that out becausearound that time, when I was so
into wellness and self-help andpersonal growth, it became my
identity and it became mydifferentiator.
It became a rebellion.
(06:28):
You know, where I grew up, thatthere wasn't even like a health
food store, like it, was sointeresting.
It differentiated me in a way.
I think I liked if I can lookback on it now, if I can look
back on it now, and anyway.
So one day I was having a toughtime, you know, because I had
(06:54):
graduated college and trying tofigure out what was next.
I wanted to keep doing this blogthat I was doing.
I wanted to keep teaching yoga,but I also wanted to have money
and live on my own and move away, which I grew up in a college
town and I went to school at theuniversity where I grew up, so
I'd never left home for collegeand I really it was an
(07:15):
unsettling moment to be not onlyhome, living with my mom, but
also in this space where Ineeded a lot of care and
attention and I felt veryconfined, I think, and when, at
this time, when I felt like Iand my peers were moving to
(07:38):
cities and getting their firstjobs and having all these
experiences that were fun andeffervescent and I was, you know
, on this different pathcompletely but going all in and
I'm such an extremist, so Ireally went all in on the
self-help stuff and a little bitoff the deep end with it, I
(08:01):
think, because it became kind ofisolating.
So anyway, all of that to say,there was this moment where I
had this gift card aftergraduation to a bookstore and I
went straight to the self-helpdepartment as I normally would,
and I'm like looking at allthese books and I'm like
(08:21):
wondering which one will give methe answers to feel the freedom
that I wanted and all my hopesand dreams come true, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And I wandered Just that.
Yeah, just no big deal.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
I wandered right on out of that section into the
stationary section instead, andI bought this colorful journal
and I nobody told me to do that,and it wasn't something that,
in therapy, was suggested to me,it wasn't something that I'd
even like read about.
It was a real intuitive likewow.
(08:55):
I feel like the answer is maybeinside me and not in any of
these bozos on the shelf youknow.
So I I took this journal and Iwould sit outside.
It was summer and I would sitoutside on a little blanket and
I just would write in it.
And one of the jobs that I hadfor it at that during this time
was I essentially I got paid tolike be able to be on my
(09:18):
computer.
Because I worked at a studiothat rented video equipment to
students, because I studiedbroadcast journalism, I wanted
to be a TV news reporter but Iwas like too weak and I was too
like I was recovering, so Icouldn't really go do that job
that I had studied and I alsocouldn't like I couldn't do much
(09:39):
.
So anyway, but I had a lot oftime to like sit on the computer
or write in my journal and Iused it all.
And I I was able in the journalto be for the first time
actually honest, actuallyauthentic and real that I was
(10:00):
having.
That I wouldn't want to admitto anybody else because I didn't
want to scare them.
And then I was also able toadmit these really lofty,
ambitious dreams and hopes andgoals for myself.
That I also didn't want to sayout loud because then I'd be
responsible for attempting toachieve them or people would
(10:20):
laugh at me and I wrote it allout and it made things feel real
.
It helped me sort through allthe and I wrote it all out and
it made things feel real.
It helped me sort through allthe thoughts I was having in my
brain.
It helped me to be able toactually meditate more and be
able to, like sit with myuncomfortable feelings because I
like wrote the thoughts downand could sort through them and
decide which ones are true andwhich ones I wanted to handle in
(10:44):
a different way them and decidewhich ones are true and which
ones I wanted to handle in adifferent way.
And so, anyway, this is a verylong answer, but essentially I
started it back then and then Icontinued and I learned about
Julia Cameron's Morning Pagesand the Artist's Way and I did
many, many practices of that andit just became my tool for
(11:04):
everything.
And I don't know if you've seenmy Big Fat Greek Wedding, the
Wendex analogy, like it was myWendex and I suggested it to
friends and, yeah, it changed mylife and I still do it now.
Speaker 1 (11:20):
Oh my gosh, I love all that so much.
I love that you said it's thetool for everything, like I'm
going to start saying thatbecause I totally feel that way
too it is.
It's a creative playground,it's a.
It's so many things, so there'sso many places I want to go.
(11:41):
But the first question I haveis that where the name of your
Let it Out podcast came from.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Yeah, so well, the name of the podcast was just
taken from the name of my book,that's right, you have a book
called that too, right.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah, the book is called.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Let it Out, a Journey Through Journaling, a journey
through journaling, but in 20,.
So I was very into self-help,as I was saying, and I kept
recommending journaling topeople.
So I was working with peopleone-on-one through teaching yoga
and through just mentoringpeople at that time and I,
(12:22):
anytime a friend would come tome with like any, like a
relationship issue or like abody image thing, I would always
go back to like have you likejournaled on about that?
And it was almost sort ofembarrassing, like you know, and
I would give them prompts.
So I would say, like, why don'tyou write, to your intuition, a
letter about this or ask thisquestion?
(12:43):
And I realized that if you aska good question, you can
probably get a good answer ifyou give yourself enough time
and space.
And so I was giving out theseprompts and it was working for
other people who weren't me.
And anyway, very, very longstory short, I ended up getting
a book deal with Hay House.
Short.
(13:05):
I ended up getting a book dealwith Hay House, which is this
publisher that I loved and I wasa big mentor of mine wrote the
foreword.
Her name's Gabby Bernstein.
She's written a bunch of booksnow and at the time I think
she'd only written two and yeah,that was about 2014.
And so I wrote this book and Iwas working a full time job
alongside of writing the book,and I was working a full-time
job alongside of writing thebook and I think I'd already
(13:26):
yeah, I think I'd alreadystarted the podcast.
Yeah, I had, because it startedin 2013.
So I had done it for about ayear and I got this book deal
and, yeah, let it out Like, letthe thoughts out of your mind so
you can sort through them anddecide which ones to listen to,
which ones are holding you back.
And it came from, actually, mymom when I was sick, and I
(13:47):
wonder if you've ever said thisto your boys but whenever I had
like a cold or even if I waslike throwing up, she would
always be like let it out, yougot to get it out, you got to
get it out, to feel better, andso I think it's kind of true
with the thoughts in your mindand so that's where it came from
.
And then, yeah, the podcast hada different name actually to
(14:09):
start, and then my publisher waslike you should put everything
under that name, and I'm happy Idid, because it feels like it
does.
Even now.
I've evolved so much more, butI feel like that name can be
pretty malleable to cover it all.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
That's beautiful.
So, like you were going throughyour treatment in this healing
process and journaling like, doyou attribute a lot of your
healing to the journalingprocess?
I'm assuming that you do, butwas that a huge part of your
recovery?
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yeah, I mean, and like recovery is so ongoing for
me even with that.
It's something that you know.
I don't know really what mygame plan was there.
I was so young thinking that Iwould get to a point where I
would just like feel great aboutmy size and body and eating and
(15:09):
food and vanity, and I don'tthink I ever thought that, maybe
.
But I've definitely had periodsof it being challenging and
more challenging and lesschallenging, and so it was
helpful back then because I wasable to just unpack.
I finally had this tool thatallowed me to I guess I already
(15:36):
said this but like be real, liketo be honest and I think I was
just wearing masks all the timeto fit in or to chameleon to
what people wanted, to have someacceptance and belonging, and I
think so many of us do that and, and it was the first time I
was able to like take all ofthat off, to just like see who I
(15:57):
was and get to know myself.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
And it it.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
You know what it helped me?
It helped the thing that itreally did.
That is the part that changedmy life, that I even, like I
didn't even realize until Istarted talking.
It gave me self-awareness, andthat's continued, because I
often, you know and I think lotsof writers say this but I don't
(16:21):
know what I'm feeling orthinking unless I'm writing,
unless I'm journaling, like Ioften will just feel off or bad
and disconnected, and until Istart to sit down and start
processing things on my own, Idon't know why and I don't know
where things come from and Idon't know how to make it better
(16:44):
.
But if I just give myself sometime, I can usually figure it
all out.
I can kind of know where itcomes from, I can process it and
the beautiful thing about andJulia Cameron, I think, talks
about this with morning pageswhen you write, she suggests
three full pages and I don't dothat practice exactly, but
(17:05):
anymore, or like that fullyconsistently, I do a different
thing, but I do find that when Ihave a significant amount of
time or like a certain amount ofpages, even if I don't want to
be doing that amount but I'vecommitted to it, our brains tend
to and I wonder if this hasbeen your experience self-soothe
(17:29):
as they go down the page.
So I've noticed that, you know,I might start off saying you
know, everything is horrible,this is so bad, but no matter
what, by the end I'm solutionoriented it starts to sound like
, yes, it's bad, but here's howit could be better, and that has
been tremendously helpfulthrough all of the iterations of
(17:54):
eating disorders and just allsorts of things that have
happened since that time in mylife, you know, 12 years ago,
and I think now I'm aging, youknow, and I think I'm.
That's something that isinteresting because with the
(18:16):
body image stuff, where I waslike when I was a kid, when I
was having such trouble withfeeling okay in my own skin, I
aging just like, like wasn'teven something I thought about
because it felt, you know, Icould kind of couldn't really
conceptualize it Like I guess ifI really thought about it, I
probably would have been likeyou're probably not going to be
great at that, since you weren'tso great at like, you know, the
(18:38):
body stuff when you wereyounger.
But now, you know I'm, I'mnearly 35.
And when I turned 30, I wasjust kind of like oh, I'm like
basically still in my twentiesand then it goes quick where
suddenly I'm, you know, not notonly feeling the, the like
physicality of it and just likestarting to notice things, but
(19:00):
also just the where I'm at in mylife, where my friends are at
in our lives, our parentsgetting older, like it's really
confronting, you know, likebecause when you see the gray
hairs or the wrinkles orwhatever it's beyond vanity,
it's like well, we're likeplummeting towards death you
know, and so.
I think contemplating all ofthat in a journaling sort of way
(19:23):
has been useful too, and soit's just kind of like the
practice is stagnant, but theproblems stay the same, and so
I'm just so happy that I havethat framework to return to.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well, I love that you answered the question when I
asked about your recovery.
That it's, you know, that it's.
It's not like a destination,right, it's like an ongoing
thing.
And I feel like I've had, I'venoticed, like I've picked up old
journals, which I don't do allthat often, but I've gone back
and looked and I'm like, oh mygosh, like I'm struggling with
(20:00):
this, I'm struggling withconfidence 10 years ago, like
what's wrong with me, you know?
But what I've realized over theyears is that usually those
core things like they don'tnecessarily go away, they just
evolve and like look a littlebit different.
But I probably will benavigating that always on some
little level, you know, and Ithink that that's such a
(20:22):
beautiful response, and I I'vehad clients who are journaling,
who are frustrated becausethey're like, why am I not
making progress on this thing?
And I'm reflecting back to themlike you have made progress on
this thing.
This topic or subject may stillcome up and it may always be
the place For me.
Navigating, being bold andbeing brave and courageous in my
(20:46):
business has always been athing that I am like pushing the
edge on, you know, and so Ithink I don't know if you feel
this way, but I feel like that'strue for all of us, that we may
have certain things that we're.
We will always be navigating insome way and that's sort of
like our.
It's like where we get refined,you know.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Completely, yeah, completely.
I totally agree that there arejust a few things.
It's like well, that's my,that's my work this time around
and it's it is.
It's frustrating, I think,being someone who journals,
because it it's in our themirror is put up to be aware of
it.
You know, I think the biggestthing that journaling helps with
(21:29):
is self-awareness, and soyou're.
Sometimes it's like ignoranceis bliss because you don't have
to put the mirror in your faceto what needs to change or what
could change.
It's just when you but it'sbetter to when you know better,
you can do better, but sometimesyou don't do better, but then
you're aware that you didn't dobetter you know.
(21:49):
So it's like you said looking atthose old journals and being
like, oh man, but yeah, I thinkit's part of it.
I completely agree.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So you also mentioned self-soothe and I think that
that's something that you knowif someone's listening who maybe
hasn't really gotten all theway in.
Like you said, double down onjournaling.
Journaling is such a tool forself-reflection and like seeing
yourself, understanding yourmind and your thoughts and your
(22:18):
relationship to those thoughts,and I feel like now more than
ever, we need to build thismuscle of self, being able to
self soothe.
And for me to, like you said,journaling like you can just
kind of know something's off andfor me to that's like my
indicator, like I just need togo right for like five or 10
(22:38):
minutes and I'll figure out whatis really bugging me.
So I would love for you cause Ialso had somebody ask this
question recently aboutjournaling so like once you're,
once you get it, you get it LikeI had the pay, the experience,
like you did, of that,experiencing your real self,
(23:03):
where, like I felt like thisgirl danced across the page of
my journal one day when I firststarted and I'm like I want to
know her.
She's real.
And like I too had had so muchpretending and putting on and
trying to be what I thought Iwas supposed to be and like all
the things right.
But when I saw her, like that'swhat kept me going, like I want
(23:25):
to know her.
And once I got to know her morein my journal, she started to
spill out into my everyday life.
You know, and I would love toknow for you, like for someone
who hasn't had that moment yet.
Know for you, like for someonewho hasn't had that moment yet,
(23:45):
like what was it that kept youwriting before you got hooked?
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (23:49):
Yeah, no, it does.
I mean, I think, to be honest,I, similarly to you, I think it
happened pretty quickly Like Ithink, pretty quickly I was just
like, oh, this makes me feelbetter.
I don't really know why Iwouldn't have been able to
articulate back then certainlyself-awareness, or being what I
(24:14):
now know as being a verbalprocessor, using it for decision
making.
Like I wouldn't have known whybut, pretty soon after doing it.
I just wanted to do it more so.
But I think I can still answerthe question in my own way,
(24:35):
which is that often once I onceI did start like said I didn't
want to stop, I found it useful.
However, still now, often I andthis is a question I've gotten
from people about it as well Iwon't want to do it, and now I
(25:00):
know why.
Usually it's I.
I need to do it, but I don'twant to do it because it, like I
was saying before, you know,journaling puts the mirror up to
your face to see what's goingon and to see your part in it
and to have to confront thingsand face them.
(25:21):
And when I want to live indelusion about something, the
last thing I want to do is putthe time in a journal.
Or if I just really know thatsomething is painful and I know
I'm going to get moreinformation on that and have to
feel the feeling of that, Ioften will avoid it, and so I
(25:45):
think that's fine.
I think that's part of it.
I used to think I advisedmyself and other people
differently of like just do itconsistently and push yourself,
and I don't really believe thatanymore.
I think you know, as usconnecting, I believe in timing
of things and of course you knowthat that's too, too, not
(26:10):
taking that to an extreme.
Sometimes you do have to forceyourself and sit down and just
knock it out, but I thinkultimately I will do that Like
when I have the time and spaceand the container and like
support to do that.
I'll do it because often I whatI'm doing is it is
(26:33):
self-protection and not notjournaling, sometimes where, if
I know it's going to be prettyemotional and it's just sort of
like how we don't want to likego into an emotion.
You know, when you're in likethe back of a taxi cab in New
York and you're like on your waysomewhere, you know, sometimes
(26:54):
I'm like I it's kind of likecleaning my closet, like doing a
really deep journaling sessionwhere I'm like, all right, I'm
going to like sit here for awhile and sort this out.
Sometimes you can do, like yousaid, that little spurt, and I
totally know what that's likeand I, I, I like that too.
But sometimes if I'm reallygoing to like, like for I think
a good example is like when arelationship ends or when you're
in a relationship and it's likesomething's not quite right and
(27:17):
you really need to like kind oflook at your part and look at
their part and really sort thatout, like that's not part of the
mate.
I in the book I make adistinction between maintenance
journaling and what I call SOSjournaling, and so maintenance
is kind of the checking in thedaily habit of it all that you
might not even get that deepwith and it might turn into like
a to-do list still helpful.
(27:40):
But the SOS journaling is likewhen you turn to it and when you
feel like you're pregnant withsomething you need to process,
like when you really need to letout some emotion and sort
through, and that's somethinglike much like you know, having
a therapy session, likesometimes if I have a chance to
talk to my therapist at like 1pm and I'm like trying to work,
(28:01):
I'm probably not going to likeopen up completely and like
process a painful experience inmy life.
I'm probably just going to likekeep it pretty surface because
I have like a meeting after youknow and I can't be crying, and
so it's the same thing withjournaling that sometimes I know
I just I just will avoid doingit until I know I have the.
I'm going to be resourced andsupported and have time and
(28:24):
space to handle whatever comesup, because I was starting to
say before it's kind of likecleaning out your closet,
because it gets worse before itgets better.
Everything is going to come outand the guts of your closet are
all over your bed, so you're notgoing to do that like right
before you're hosting a party,because it's going to be messy,
so it's kind of like that,that's a great way to describe
(28:47):
that.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Like I clean my closet regularly, like I kind of
enjoy cleaning my closet andit's that's so, like I take
everything out and then organizeit and put it back, and that's
exactly what I do in a journal.
I kind of pour out my head andheart and then kind of look at
it all and try to make somesense of it and delete some
stuff that I don't want to hangon to and maybe add some things.
(29:10):
Yeah, it's such a great analogyor metaphor, whichever that is.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Yeah, yeah, I think that that makes so much sense
and, like you said, even thoughyou enjoy it, it doesn't change
the fact that it takes time.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
Yeah, and it can be uncomfortable when you're like
looking at all the mess andyou're like, oh, I'm kind of
tired now I don't really want todeal with this.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Yeah, you have to have the energy for it and there
might be twists that you're notexpecting, like you put on a
sentimental item and you noticethat it doesn't fit, or you
notice that it's somethingthat's or whatever you know.
I think sometimes, like I feelthat way even with work or on my
phone, where it's like text,where I won't even open text in
(29:54):
the middle of the day and do itall at one time because I don't
know what's in there, like it'sa portal, like it could be
something like the best newsever or it could be like
something horrible, and Isometimes I'm just like I got to
focus on what's in front of meand then when I have some time,
I'll go there and not have tohold on to it while I'm trying
to focus elsewhere.
Speaker 1 (30:15):
Yeah, well, and I love that you um Well, and I
love that you describedjournaling in a way I was going
to go back to, but I think Ilost it, oh sorry.
That's okay.
Okay, so I want to kind of alsotalk about creativity.
How do the two tie together foryou, or do they?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
That's a good question.
Yeah, I think they definitelycertainly do.
The biggest thing is that Ioften they tie together in the
sense of capturing ideas.
You know, I think ideas kind ofcome from wherever and whenever
and sometimes I feel like I'mlike ducking and like you know,
(31:03):
and sometimes you miss them andsometimes you can swing at them
and hit them right away andoftentimes I think for me I'll
get an idea and I'll have tohold on to it until I have much
like the closet thing, likeuntil I have the time and space
to make it or share it or putenergy into it.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
So it's about capturing ideas, organizing them
and then returning to them.
That's one way.
So you know, I constantly likewrite things in my phone and
then, in terms of creatively, Ithink, often an idea or when I'm
stuck writing about it andwriting about creative solutions
(31:48):
, like there are so many ways toend an essay, there are so many
ways to approach a painting oranything like that, and so I
think it's really helpful in alldecision making, and creativity
often is decision making, it'sfinding creative solutions to
(32:12):
problems, and I, as I've said,don't know what I'm thinking
unless I'm writing.
Can't make a decision to save mylife without writing about it
or talking to several friendsabout it, not necessarily to get
their thoughts and opinion andfeedback, but to figure out what
I think about something.
And so journaling is veryhelpful in that, and it's also
(32:38):
quite helpful in relationships,I think, because I don't have to
put that pressure on otherpeople to kind of give me the
answer, especially with creativeoptions.
I can get as far as I can on myown and then go to other people
with more specifics, and Ithink that's useful for getting
(33:01):
advice from others.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
You just said something that made me think
about.
You said, you know, like Ican't make a decision without
writing first, and that justmade me think about so for
myself.
Right, like we both talkedabout having like a lot of armor
or masks or protection.
(33:25):
Right, Like I spent half mylife trying to be who I thought
I was supposed to be, and I feellike the second half has been
like knocking all that down andcoming back to who I am and live
in the practice of living free,right, free right.
(33:47):
But I wonder if, becausejournaling, to me too, has been
so helpful to like find my ownanswers, find my own, you know,
like you said, to be able tomake a decision, like what do I
actually feel?
Because I have spent so much ofmy life looking over there,
thinking that somebody else knewbetter, or trying to get what I
already believe to be trueconfirmed by somebody else.
(34:07):
And I wonder if it's that trait, whether it's a lack of
confidence or whatever it is,that allows journaling to be so
helpful, because you can getquiet and quiet, all of that
external stuff to really listenin and find.
Like you said earlier, theanswers are inside and that's my
(34:30):
whole mission is to teachpeople like get quiet and go
inside, because you have accessto even far more than yourself,
right, like so much divinewisdom there.
But I just wanted to highlightthat.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
I think that's so true.
I mean, I think that's whatpeople can get out of meditation
too.
I think anything that and I do,and I going on a really long
walk, journaling, meditating arekind of my three things that I
have to do all the time or I'mlike not quite right, you know,
and I think the through line inall of them are time alone,
(35:10):
space, like calming your nervoussystem, slowing down and, I
think, in a time where there'salways a message that could be
sent or there's always a screenthat could be looked at and you
could be entertained or youcould, you know, whatever and
then also to speak to youraudience.
(35:31):
In particular, I think, when youwork for yourself, what I've
found is that there's alwayshomework that could be done,
there's always another thing Icould do.
You just have to decide to stopat the end of the day and carry
it over tomorrow, becausethere's always more that could
be done.
And so I think in that sort oflifestyle, those things that
(35:56):
slow you down allow you to hearwhat is going, what's actually
happening, where we're oftenjust moving too fast to to be
able to hear that in ourintuition.
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Essentially, it's so powerful.
So, going back to kind of thecreativity piece I am, saw
something you wrote that saidlike we're at our best when
we're wrestling with a projector like gathering inspiration
for an idea, and I just likethat, just like sunk into my
(36:32):
heart, like I'm like, oh, thatis so true for me, it is so true
for me, like, even if I don'thave something going on, I'm
creating a problem to solve,right, right, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's better if you're .
If you're, the problem you'recreating is one that's
productive.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yes, yes, yes.
So tell us about your creativeclasses or your creative clinic
and some of the things thatyou're working on right now,
that you're excited about.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, I mean I wrote that because lack of information
ultimately, but they're reallyfulfilling because they're very
creative.
Like you don't have all theinformation, so you're in your
head writing a story of what youwant it to be or what it could
be, or the potential you knowand so, if you can, I think that
(37:38):
everyone's crush self is theirbest self meaning, like the, the
optimism and the excitement andthe kind of euphoria that can
come with that ultimately.
You know, in that instance,sometimes that can be crushing,
you know when it ends or whenyou like see more of it.
But I think if you can applythat logic to always having
(38:00):
something to like you read, likebe wrestling with, or always be
in pursuit or always be lookingforward to something or having
a bit of anticipation, you know,and I find that I have to
(38:20):
cultivate that often and and wecan you know whether it's like
multiple things at the same time, of working on, you know, a
house project, or working on apiece of writing or or painting,
or you know finding creativesolution to whatever problem, I
think getting yourself into thatstate where you're, there's a
(38:45):
there has to be a little bit ofoptimism, there has to be a
little bit of confidence thatit's possible.
You know, sometimes I feel likeit's it's delusion, you know
helpful, you know a helpfuldelusion of like this could
exist.
Even if it, you have no reasonto believe that, based on past
experiences, you know you haveto have that.
Or else I think, honestly, Ithink we die, like I.
(39:11):
I heard this story once abouthow this person was the, the guy
who delivered the queen her redbox, I think it is, or black,
yeah, I think it's a red boxwith like the cards of like what
she does for the day.
And he asked her before shedied, he was like, when are you
going to retire?
Like, when are you going tostop doing this?
And she was like, oh, I can'tactually, because when I stop
(39:35):
doing this I'm going to die forsure, because we need and I saw
that with my grandparents, likeas soon as they didn't have like
a purpose or a direction at all, like they just went, you know,
and I I don't know that muchabout anything, but about, you
(39:56):
know, that topic really.
But I guess I just see it inmyself.
I get very depressed, I getvery anxious about relationships
and, like you said, I spendmyself a yarn on something not
(40:16):
only unimportant butcounterproductive.
If I'm not in pursuit ofsomething creatively and I think
that yeah, I think that we canif we can get ourselves into
that place more often, we aremore pleasant to be, or I'll
(40:37):
speak for myself I'm morepleasant to be around if I've
like touched a creative projectdaily, even if it's not much,
even if I've just made, becauseit gives you some momentum, you
know, it gives you some for me.
If I like have an idea ofsomething I want to write and I
(40:58):
just like jot down some notesabout it, or I like make some
edits on something, or I get anidea and I end up doing the
whole thing and sharing it inone day, or like whatever it is.
As long as I'm taking like afew steps in the direction of
some of my creative projects, Ican go to dinner with someone
(41:18):
that night and like be reallypresent there and be a
supportive friend and I'm not isonly consuming.
And I think social media is agood example of this, where, if
I go on social media and I and Iand I want to say too it's a
privilege to be able to work onart, right, like it's a
(41:40):
privilege to be able to work onanything creative on a house
project, on a piece of writing,whatever it is.
You know, I, my mom, has workeda job for 45 years and, you
know, always says like I don'thave a creative bone in my body
and like I don't have time forART.
I have a J-O-B, you know, andthat is true, like it is such a
(42:00):
privilege and I now, you know,work like a million jobs and I
get frustrated when I don't havetime to put as much time as I
want to into a project.
However, I'm not as resentfulto the jobs I have to do to fund
my creativity or I'm notresentful to spending time with
(42:26):
other people and helping them ifI move something forward, move
the needle forward.
And what I was going to sayabout social media is that, like
when I get onto Instagram whenI haven't had the capacity or
the energy or the time to putinto my projects, and then I'm
on there and I see one friend'spublished a piece in a magazine
(42:51):
and another friend has done anart show and another friend, you
know, I'm I'm trying to conjurehappiness for them, but there's
a little part of me that's likemust be nice.
They can do their thing.
I had to work all day, you know, and so I.
However, when I, when I'm alsosharing my thing, that I wrote
(43:11):
and I'm completing some thingsand I'm getting some projects
over the net and I'm feelingcreatively fulfilled, when I see
my friends posting the magazineand posting the, the painting
and the video, I'm like I'm like, oh my God, that's incredible.
I'm so happy, I like that'sgreat.
So I don't, I want to be thelatter always.
So it's my responsibility to becreative every day and touch
(43:33):
those projects.
So I don't become resentful andbitter and if I look at it that
way, it's, it carries someweight.
You know, I heard ElizabethGilbert say once um, in a
conversation with Brene Brown.
They were saying unusedcreativity is not benign.
So basically, if you look at itlike that, it's actually you
(43:59):
know all of this.
You know it's kind of dramaticthe way I'm saying it, like if
you're not creative you'll die,but like kind of you know if
you're not creative you'll beresentful, but like kind of you
know, if you're not creative.
You'll be resentful, but like,kind of you know.
So I think having that weightbehind it helps people to
actually do it.
And that's what I do, you know.
To answer your question, myworkshops and in my what I call
the creative clinic, where Iwork with people one-on-one,
(44:19):
which is something I've done fora decade, and the way it
started was helping people, youknow, with journaling and with
self-awareness and with sortingthrough some of these thoughts
in their brain and helping toreorient themselves to what's
useful for them.
But with the creative clinicand focusing on creative
(44:43):
practice and living a creativelife.
Where that came from is that Ihad and it still exists.
I have a workshop that helpspeople start podcasts.
It's called um, the podcast kit, and I would do these live
calls for that and in thesecalls people could ask whatever
they wanted about the modulesand it was an eight module
(45:04):
course that helps everythingfrom, you know, coming up with a
concept and interviewing andthe technology of it and
monetizing it, all of it.
And I thought people would beasking questions on those topics
, like, you know, my microphoneor whatever, whatever.
And everybody's question inthese coaching calls was some
version of can I make my thing.
(45:26):
Like am I?
What is my friend from highschool going to think when I put
the podcast out?
Or how can you know?
And I was just givingpermission slip after permission
.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
I was just going to say permission, right.
Speaker 2 (45:38):
Exactly, and so I was like all right, I think that
this is beyond podcasting, youknow, and so I was working with
people one-on-one in that, withthe creative clinic and in the
pandemic in 2020, I started this.
It was called CreativeUnderdogs and I renamed it to be
(45:58):
called In Process, butbasically it's people in process
, people getting everyone tostay in that state of wrestling
with something, and so we wouldall like do co-working together,
and I had guests come in andessentially it was keeping each
other inspired and accountableand and keeping that momentum up
, cause it's very easy tocontinue a creative practice.
(46:19):
It's not that hard, but it's.
For me, it's incrediblychallenging to begin or return
to one.
And it's the same thing withlike, if you haven't answered
emails or texts in in months, tolike go in there, it's like oh
God, uh.
But if you just like do alittle bit every day, it's like
not that big of a deal, and sothat's what, what, that, what I
(46:42):
help people do in those areas.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
That's beautiful, oh my gosh.
Well, I want to touch on acouple things before we start to
wind down and wrap up.
But you talked aboutresponsibility and you didn't
say self-discipline.
But I think a lot of what we'retalking about, you know, I
heard someone say this, or likeit dawned on me that like true,
(47:10):
I've never liked like self-care.
I feel like it's been takeninto so many things that I'm
like, ooh, like I want to getaway from that.
But true, self-care isself-discipline.
And like doing those thingsthat we know we need to do in
order to show up the way thatwe're committed to showing up.
And and then this piece aboutlike living a creative life and
(47:34):
and maybe maybe you're listeningand thinking that you're not a
creative, and, um, I used tothink that too, kind of like
your mom said, like I don't havea creative bone in my body,
like I used to feel that way.
And what I know now is alsoback to what you said is it's
like the air I breathe.
I don't know how I ever thoughtthat I wasn't creative.
I think because I thought itneeded to look like painting or,
(47:57):
you know, art in that sort offashion.
But I love to be creative andlike how I live my life, and we
have so many moments in our dayas we're just moving through it
to to be creative and toinfluence and have agency over,
you know, parts of our life andit's been the most beautiful
(48:18):
thing in my life and so, aswe're talking about you know,
having tools to move throughlife, I feel like you've just so
beautifully and vulnerably likearticulated so many things that
I know the listener has beentouched by something in this
conversation.
So tell us how can people findout more about what you're doing
(48:41):
?
Your podcast just two podcastsso make sure you tell them about
that and anything else thatyou're excited about.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Thanks.
Well, yeah, you know I host ashow called Let it Out where I
interview people, and I've beendoing it since 2013.
So there's a pretty robustarchive and I love it.
I get to speak to people likeyou, carla, and I get to meet so
many people through throughdoing that over the years, I'm
(49:11):
starting to forget, like somepeople that I've interviewed,
it's, it's nuts.
And so, yeah, I I, that is, newepisodes every week.
And then I I co-hosted a secondshow with my friend, serena Wolf
, about anxiety.
It's called Spiraling and wehaven't done a season in a while
(49:34):
, but we'll probably bring itback at some point with the
archives there.
We call it a humorous mentalhealth show, so that's really
fun to co-host.
And then, yeah, I work withpeople one-on-one with creative
consulting.
So, if anyone, I have two spotsopen right now.
So if anybody wants to learnmore about that, the link will
probably be in the show notesand I will probably run creative
(49:58):
underdog slash in process againat some point.
I don't know if I'll win or ifI probably I hope to, but I'm
not really sure when that'sgoing to be.
But in the meantime, I have mybook is called Let it Out.
It's been a couple of yearssince it I guess it'll be almost
10 years since it came out, butit's still available and that's
(50:19):
55 journaling prompts and my alot of what we talked about
today.
So that is of interest topeople.
But I also have somethingcalled that's a bit more current
, of an offering related to thecontent in the book.
It's called the right kit.
So I have these different kitson my website that, if you go to
let it out, kitscom, the rightkit is journaling prompts and
(50:42):
it's a lot of the similarcontent from the book but
updated, and there's also aninterview with a writer in there
.
It's not only just writing foremotional wellness journaling
essentially but also writing tobe shared.
So I talk about that bit a bitand I have some other journaling
kits.
One of them is called I haveabout breakups actually.
(51:06):
So there's a two part writingfor emotional wellness and, yeah
, I call it the breakups kit.
So there's the soothe kit andthe solve kit.
The soothe kit is for, like,when you're fresh out of a
breakup and you just need tokind of soothe yourself, and
then the solve kit is when youcan actually go into the journal
and mine it for therelationship for gems of
(51:28):
self-awareness and and moveforward.
So, yeah, that's kind of Ithink that's kind of everything.
I made a couple of zines umrecently.
So if you and I have a substack, that's kind of the main
place I've been putting myenergy and what I'm most excited
about, I think, right now iswriting on there so and anyone
can can read those for free.
But if you do become a paidsubscriber, I'll send you the
(51:50):
zines that I've made recently,um in the mail.
Speaker 1 (51:55):
I'm so inspired by all that you're doing.
I'm definitely going to take acloser look at that, and I
encourage you to look at all thethings, um, that Katie's doing
too.
And one last question for you,Katie what does differently mean
to you?
Speaker 2 (52:11):
Oh, that's such a good question.
What's coming to me right nowis honesty, like a self honesty,
I think being the same is iseasy, it's autopilot, it's being
(52:35):
influenced.
But I think being differentrequires much of what we spoke
about today self-awareness, time, space, confidence and often
self-discipline and to bothfigure out what it is and to
(52:55):
embody it.
And so, yeah, I thinkdifferently means going against
the grain, which often takes apush of self-discipline and
understanding what direction youis different from what you've
been doing or what other peopleare doing.
Speaker 1 (53:15):
That's so beautiful.
Thank you so much for spendingthis time with me.
Thank you.
I loved every minute and Ican't wait for more.
Likewise, have an awesome dayeveryone.
Speaker 2 (53:28):
Thank you, thanks for listening, thanks for having me
.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of
differently.
It's been an honor to sharethis conversation with you.
You know, one of the keys toliving fully is to take action
when you're inspired to do so.
I hope you found that spark ofinspiration today and would you
help us spread the word.
Did someone you know come tomind while you were listening?
(53:54):
If this episode could impactsomeone you know, please share
it and pass it along.
New episodes drop weekly, sotap that subscribe button and
join us next time as we continueto challenge the status quo and
get equipped to live lifedifferently.
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