July 3, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode, host Jeff Yan interviews Jose Rodriguez, Assistant Vice President of Community and Belonging at College Unbound.
They discuss the unique educational philosophy of College Unbound, which prioritizes community partnership and inclusivity. The conversation covers how the institution maintains its core values amidst growth, providing flexible learning environments and support for non-traditional students. Jose highlights the importance of adapting education to meet student needs and the future potential of expanding their model to traditional colleges.
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The MET stands for Metropolitan Regional Career And Technical Center https://www.themethighschool.org
CU, as used in this conversation, means College Unbound.
For more about Dennis Littky, visit https://www.bigpicture.org/presenter/dennis-littky
You can follow Jose Rodriguez on LinkedIn to learn more: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jose-rodriguez-6592857a
Watch Part One of our Digication Scholars Conversation with Adam Bush, co-founder and Provost of College Unbound: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/s1-e25-the-new-college-unbound-turns-chaos-of-life/id1538850043?i=1000518019620
#CommunityEngagement #CommunityPartnership #CollegeUnbound #MakeLearningVisible #AlternativeEducation
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear part twoof my conversation with Jose Rodriguez,
Assistant Vice President of Communityand Belonging at College Unbound.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
(00:22):
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
Now, you actually mentioned it.
You know, a little while ago,you, Community is in your title.
Your official title is Assistant VicePresident of Community and Belonging.
Can you tell me a littlebit about what that means?
(00:43):
What do you, so what doyou do at College Unbound?
Uh, so, Community and Belonging.
Um, so, I mentioned that we're growing.
And a lot of what happens with growthis that you lose those core values
that matter most to the, to the school.
So you mentioned The Met andbig picture as a whole, uh, big
(01:05):
picture learning as a whole.
So I'm going to take a pagefrom them in that it does not
matter what state you go to.
If you walk into a big picture school.
It feels the same.
So whether it's The Met in Providence, TheMet in Newport, or Met, uh, in San Diego.
It feels the exact same.
(01:27):
Teachers, uh, instructors areteaching in the same manner.
Kids feel the same.
Kids are empowered.
That's the same thing that I'm tryingto mirror here at the college level,
no matter where we are, um, whethervirtually, on the ground, uh, Seattle,
Chicago, does not matter where we are,you're going to get that same feeling,
that feeling of belonging, that, oh, Ican be my authentic self in this space
(01:52):
because no one's going to judge me.
If anything, people are justgonna encourage me more.
People are gonna, you know, that oldtakes a village mentality is gonna come
into play and people are just gonnashow up for me whenever I need them.
That's what I'm hoping to mirror,regardless of where we're at.
Now, so.
Just, I want to provide alittle context for folks.
(02:13):
The big picture learning that was startedby Dennis Littky, who's also started,
you know, College Unbound, um, thistime with Adam Bush, um, the big picture
learning started, you know, back anothercouple more decades, I want to say.
And, but at this point they started at ahumble location in Providence, downtown.
(02:34):
Um, and then, um, It, it wassuccessful enough that it, the
model has been, has been reproducedin all these different cities.
I think there are, last I remembercounting was somewhere in the 150
to 200 locations worldwide, not justin the United States, but worldwide.
Correct.
Um, and, and many, many thousandsof students and, and, um.
(02:58):
Extremely successful and other, you know,one of those magical place where, you
know, have extremely high graduation rateand college attendee rates, attending,
you know, attendance rates, um, as is areally massive, massive, huge success.
And you had already talked about.
College Unbound already in number ofcities and that's one of the things
(03:21):
that you are trying to maintain,which is this culture, you know,
that you have created so successfullyat the Providence location.
But there's something more to me alsoabout this, these locations in, in my,
You know, in my circle of, um, highereducation friends and, and colleagues,
when they're thinking about a newlocation, we're talking new campuses,
(03:45):
new, new, new dormitories, new cafeterias,new gym, new swimming pools, um, right?
And, uh, new football stadiums.
Research labs at College Unbound, you dosome, you do this very, very differently
(04:05):
and in a way that you can, you know,I, I think that a lot of it passes, you
know, is has a lot to do with how, um.
Many traditional college, we think ofthe way to almost like budget and fund
a college requires all those, all thebrick and many, many, many bricks and
mortar in order to build that experience.
(04:27):
But college has done thingsreally, really smart.
You want to talk a little bit about that?
You know, the partnership thatyou have with various, you
know, organizations and so on.
So, and that, that is also part of thecommunity and belonging work, right?
Making sure that we're aligningourselves with organizations that,
uh, mirror, or that are identicalin mission and vision, right?
(04:51):
Uh, so some of the earlier partnershipswere with, um, the Nonviolence Institute
in Providence, the, uh, the United Way.
Um, and the reason why is, youknow, they, these places had a
population of folks who worked.
Boots on the ground, doing tons ofwork and didn't have a college degree.
The second part of that is thatthey had the space, they have
(05:13):
conference rooms, they have, youknow, offices that aren't being used.
So because CU's model lends itself tobeing able to teach wherever there is
a need, if you have a conference room,we can come in and, you know, that
then becomes college inbound, we don'thave a building, uh, and I don't think
that Ever intended to have buildings.
(05:35):
I think that the motto is that wewill always teach in community.
So wherever learning is happening,that's where we're going to be.
And that also helps with keepingcosts down to the student, right?
We're not, we're not thinking aboutthe having to cover the overhead of
all these massive brick and mortars.
Uh, so yeah.
That the savings then does, uh,show up in what a student pays.
(06:00):
Also, with the utilizing thesecommunity spaces, it also are places
where folks are already familiar with.
Um, so there's a level ofcomfortability that comes with that.
So, more eager and more willing toparticipate because it's already
a place that they've determinedto be a safe place for them.
I remember having that conversation withAdam a number of years ago, and I remember
(06:25):
him telling me that, Oh, yeah, we'retalking to the housing authority in, um, I
forget which city that he was talking to.
And, and I said, Oh, well,what are you doing there?
Are you going to build somethingin the housing authority?
And he was saying, No, no, no, no,we are going to partner because.
These are going to be the, ourstudents are going to be the ones
(06:48):
who already live in these, youknow, these, uh, these areas.
So, instead of having to have the studentseven come to our campus, we go to them.
I think that is so smart.
It's so incredibly smart.
It's good for everyone because, you know,having just generally speaking, I mean,
we just look at just simple numbers here,having one teacher or several teachers
(07:14):
to go to a community instead of havinga whole community of people come to
your campus, it's just more efficient.
It is.
It is a level of efficiency, uh, to that.
But again, I just have tolean on the fact that it also.
Uh, so, and people feeling safe,uh, particularly because most of
our students have been harmed byeducation in some aspect before, right?
(07:37):
So trying to undo that harm is makingsure that the student feels safe.
And if the place where they are iswhere they feel safe, having them
go to another location so thatwe can say we have that location.
To me, would just be silly, right?
And sometimes impractical.
Yep, exactly.
Right.
If you can go to the United waysconference room, where they already had
(08:01):
that, they, they, they're actually, theyjust finished their work over there.
They can just do that.
And versus having to go cross townsomewhere, drive for 30 minutes.
But.
Find parking, you know, you know, that's,those are all things that really count.
Don't you think?
I think a lot of peopledrop out because of that.
And
those are things that are already provennot to work for the working adult.
(08:25):
Those are the thingsthat make people quit.
Uh, like, so I drovearound for 35 minutes.
I couldn't find parking.
I'm already late.
I'm just gonna miss this class.
And you miss that one class.
And then before you know it, it'stwo and three classes because
the same thing keeps happening.
And then again, once again,you walk away feeling defeated.
But all of that could have beenprevented if the school would adjust
(08:49):
to the student as, and not expectingthe student to adjust to the school.
And there are other things that youdo too, like, I know that, I mean,
again, we talked a little bit aboutthe cost, you know, not having to
maintain a building, the HVAC, theeverything that goes with it, right?
(09:09):
But you are able then to redirectyour resources to doing things like.
When you do have group meetups,you're going to provide food,
you're going to provide childcare.
Correct.
I mean, that's an incredible.
Yeah.
And the communal meal again,it's that trying to eliminate
(09:30):
as many barriers as possible.
So thinking about the learning, theworking adult, I get out of work,
I have to go, I got to go cook.
Uh, for my kids.
I gotta, if I'm gonna go to school, thenI gotta bring my kids to the babysitter.
So we're eliminating those two things.
Bring your kids with you.
We'll provide child care.
Uh, don't cook, becausewe'll provide a meal.
(09:52):
So the only thing that you have todo on that day that you're supposed
to be in class is just be present.
Everything else is going tobe taken care of for you.
And I, again, community because thecommunity, the communal meal is as
important as any academics that you'regoing to get one, because it becomes
a networking, uh, time and also.
(10:14):
A time for people to share their,their lived experiences together.
There is something incredible about that.
You know, the power of havingall these people, like you said,
your typical attendees haveincredible lived experiences.
I think that there is something.
(10:35):
That people miss.
And I actually believe that this existsin all of community colleges as well,
by the way, in that going to a four yearcollege, a traditional age college, four
years college, where everyone is thesame age coming in with the same, very
similar set of, you know, so the K 12experiences straight from high school,
(10:58):
you actually get a lot less diverseview of the world and perspectives.
Just, Um, Right, because, youknow, like, just by definition,
they're all the same age.
They've none of them had had,you know, um, a mortgage yet.
They don't have, you know, like,uh, it's, it's just a very, very
(11:20):
similar sort of background going in.
Um, versus I think that in certainlyin, in College Unbound, you get an
incredibly diverse, um, differentbackgrounds and skill sets and,
and, and lived experience coming in.
And, and just what you can learnfrom peers, I think it's already
just absolutely incredible.
(11:43):
I agree.
Do you think that College Unbound, or Idon't know whether, you know, let, let's,
let's do a little thought experiment.
Could College Unbound be?
Be possible for, you know, like,students are going to a more traditional
(12:08):
college, like, age wise, let's say,you know, they're coming out of high
school, they don't have all thislife experience, they, they haven't
had the, you know, like, I triedcollege couple times didn't work out.
It's failed me.
Right.
Oh, I failed out of it.
Whatever.
However you look at it.
Um, they don't have that yet.
They just coming out of high school.
(12:28):
Do you think that College Unboundcould work for or version of
College Unbound could work for them?
Yes.
Um, we, when we existed, um, as a.
as a program within other colleges.
Unfortunately, we would get cutfirst because, you know, it was,
it was a thing that was easily cut.
But yes, the same issues that some of ourfolks are, are dealing with as adults,
(12:55):
our kids are dealing with, although theymay not have the added responsibilities
of paying a mortgage and things like that.
They are experiencing, uh, forlack of better wording, sometimes
imposter syndrome, where theydon't feel like they belong.
And nothing about, uh, at least myexperience has been nothing about a
traditional college is meant to make youfeel like you belong unless you belong.
(13:20):
Like hard to explain it in that fashion.
So you
don't have the privilegeto already belong there.
Just don't get to, if you don't havethe ticket, you're just not supposed
to be there and that you know,
no, no one will make
it.
Yeah.
No one's, no one's justpassing out extra tickets.
It's either you got it or you don't.
Uh, different than a place likeCU where, you know, everyone is
(13:45):
going to get the same treatment.
Everyone's going to, going toget the same sense of belonging.
Um, I, so yes, can it work?
Absolutely.
It's just for colleges that aredealing specifically with that
demographic, then they just, it's, it'sa commitment that they have to take.
And, you know, And provide, andto me, it's indicative of social
(14:07):
services that, um, colleges shouldalso be trying to help with.
Something about, um, this, I mean, I, I,I kind of feel a lot like, you know, Jose,
like, it'll be like another 10 years goesby or 20 years goes by and we got to come
(14:27):
back and I'm glad this is recorded, right?
So then we can say like, oh yeah,back in 2004, we were on the ground
floor of when we were just taking off.
Right, and then, uh, you know,um, and, and I, I just kind of see
how, you know, these things about,you know, servicing the different
types of populations, right, couldpotentially, you know, really scale up.
(14:51):
But I also am thinking about the,the, um, the, the way that you.
Currently, I think at College Unbound,the, the alumni that I meet and people
that, students that I meet are talkingabout the projects, it's almost 100
percent always surround themselves onsocial justice, something to do with the
(15:12):
community, um, and I, I could see how, andthe degree is in um, What was it again?
It's in, uh, it's a bachelor'sdegree in leadership and
organizational leadership
and change, right, um, which is a perfectfit for, for what you're doing right now.
But I also feel like thatthere is a whole sense of.
(15:35):
It potentially going into, Hey, if youwant to study social work, sociology,
like some, something else could be,could, could also be sprung by the same
set of principles, um, that are probablyclosely related to your current degree.
Offering.
Do you see a, do you see a,see that in, in potential in
(15:57):
the future of College Unbound?
I think that the degree offering opensitself up to what our, our population
of students are actually about.
Um, so working with a lot of non profits,uh, Particularly because those are the,
those are the folks doing the work in thecommunity means just that these are folks
(16:20):
that are already driven by change, right?
Um, and the piece of paper just givesthem that validation that they now can
say, Oh, I have a degree, but they'realready change agents in their own right.
Um, it's always interesting tosee folks within an organization.
(16:42):
Start to feel valued simply becausethey start to talk about what they're
learning in school and immediatelystart to talk to their peers about it
and like how that just opens them upto the possibility of not just creating
change in the community but alsomaybe I could run this organization
(17:03):
or maybe I should just start my
own.
Yeah, the level of drive,like you said, It's so strong
amongst your community, right?
That it's almost like, these arepeople who have incredible drives, but
for some reason, someone says, put,you know, they've been doing it with
(17:29):
both hands tied behind the back and,and College Unbound helps untie that.
Yep, exactly.
Right.
And then they're, they're like, well, nowI'm often to doing, you know, I could, I
could be even more productive than before.
I think that is really amazingand it's really amazing.
The other thing that I, I had found thatis pretty amazing is that you are also not
(17:53):
holding on to certain one single programand just sort of be like, this is it.
And I remember talking to Adam, andyou tell me how this works, but that,
for example, you might partner with anorganization, let's take United Way,
and that at some point, you might say,well, we've helped this entire group of
(18:17):
people, this cohort of people now, thatwe will pause potentially for a little
while and then we will come back later.
We may help another use the redirect theresource to help another organization.
So again, I think United Wayis a good example of that.
So our local chapter of United Way,we graduated all the folks that they
(18:38):
had who didn't have bachelor's degree.
So then it's like we canno...
Not that we can't go partner withthem again, but we've already got all
their, all their workers, uh, a degree.
Will they do a big hire in the nearfuture and HR immediately connect them
to us because they know the value oftheir employees having the degree?
(19:02):
Absolutely.
So it's, we're going to get,we're going to get through all
these employees and then we'll go.
Uh, we'll take a pause, uh, we'll waita year, maybe a year and a half, go back
and just restart the process all over.
Um, what it does also, it helpsa little bit of, um, anticipation
(19:23):
build up for those folks who came onafter that happened, because now they
have something to look forward to.
But there's something also so incredibleabout that efficiency of you using your
resources and going to the community.
So you, you are there when they havethe needs, as opposed to them coming,
you know, you have a fixed placewhere they have to come to, right?
(19:45):
Exactly.
Because then that's, you can servethem so much better that way,
and not having to, you know, finda building and commit to that
for the next 25 years, right?
What are some of the things that Ifyou were to, you know, I think there
(20:08):
are a lot of, I think there, I wouldsay there, I would love to hear your
view on, you know, what you would sayto a couple of different groups of
people, couple of different audiences.
I know there are listeners to this.
One are the.
(20:28):
Currently, someone who's working, teachingat, let's say a college at a community
college at a four year college, theymight want to do changes to make things
different for themselves, not necessarilyto the level of starting their own
school and creating a college unbound.
They might want to, you know, do somethingin their own classes to, to take a,
(20:52):
take a page out of what you've done.
Something incrediblyinteresting and successful.
What are some of your, uh,what would you say to them?
Listen to the student.
I think that regardless of what age thestudent is, they usually have the answer.
(21:13):
Uh, and sometimes we have toget out of our own way and
allow the students to lead.
Um, what is school about?
Uh, because I also teach at CU, so partof the reason that it's cool to teach
here is because I can adapt my curriculum,my syllabus to the student need.
(21:35):
Um, so not being so rigid in that thisis the only way it's going to work.
And if I don't do it this way,then I'm not going to provide
you a good enough education.
So I think that educators acrossthe board could learn from that.
In that it's not, it's not onesize fits all, unfortunately.
And there are some students that are,um, Not because they don't know how to do
(22:00):
something or because they don't get thecontent, but may not be able to learn in
the way in your particular teaching style.
So have a little bit of movement in that,like allow yourself some flexibility.
Uh, so that when you do come acrossthose students, don't discourage them
by, uh, basically not teaching themthe way that they need to be taught.
(22:22):
Or I'll tell, I'll tell them that they're,they should not consider public speaking.
Exactly.
Right.
And I think that there's alot to be said about that.
By the way, I, I love what yousaid, just listen to the students.
And I also think thatthere is something about.
(22:42):
Something that I have constantlyfelt at College Unbound when I
visited is that you do not ever fora moment underestimate your students.
Absolutely
not.
Right.
You believe that they can notonly can they do it, they can do
it as well as anyone in the world
can.
And if not better.
Right.
So it's, it's not a, You comehere to work for me because I'm
(23:07):
the, the head of this class.
I get to say what you have todo and you just have to do it.
It doesn't feel like thatat all at College Unbound.
Like that doesn't exist.
Um, second, I want to say that,um, so then let me ask you, and
this is, um, I guess a part of.
(23:29):
You know, probably somethingthat you do all the time.
What do you say to students, on the otherhand, who are, um, you know, either could
be looking for something like CollegeUnbound, or are attending a school right
now, and there's not College Unbound,and they're feeling a little bit stuck?
(23:51):
My
one advice would be what I, what Iwish that someone would have told
me and that you are not the problem.
The institution is, um, really, I wouldjust start to learn how to advocate
for, for, for self and look for,although that their College Unbound
(24:13):
may not exist in that institution,there has to be someone within the
institution with similar values.
And it's a matter of identifyingthat person, you know, who.
Collaborating with that person onsome advocating, uh, in order to
move whatever it is that you'retrying to get done forward.
And do you...
(24:37):
And
for those who might be interestedin learning more about College
Unbound, what should they do?
They should just come toyour website or come visit?
What should they do?
I would always encourage folks to comevisit, but our website is the best
way to just learn a little bit more.
Um, but also, uh, again, Communityand Belonging is in my title.
(24:57):
So if you're looking to learn anything,all my information is on the website,
including my cell phone number.
Um, so I'm always willing and ableto take calls, emails, whatever
needs to happen in order to spreadthe word of what we do here at CU.
It's amazing.
(25:17):
Well, um, Jose, thank you so, so muchfor sharing all of your insights.
You are incredible.
You're an inspiration.
And I think that, um, it's also really,I think it's so smart of College
Unbound to also hire their own alumbecause they are such an amazing, they
(25:39):
are all people with amazing drives.
And they, they are living examples ofwhat could, what success could look like.
Um, and, and it's, uh, it's a, it'sa, it's truly a, um, uh, you know, a
breath of fresh air in higher education.
(26:01):
Well, thank you for having this space.
It's definitely a, a breath offresh air just to be able to have
a conversation about a place thatI love and hold dear to my heart.
Okay.
All right.
Well, um, I hope to, um, hear moreof your success story and maybe in
another 10 years, we'll see where,where, where, where things are.
(26:22):
Um, and, uh, I, I have no doubt thatit's going to be a massive success.
And it's one of those things that it'sgoing to be successful in ways that
people don't, don't realize, right.
It's not going to be in some kindof weird ranking thing, right.
It's not going to be in that,but it's going to be measured in
metrics that are unusual to people.
(26:43):
And, but once we see it andthen we'll be like, wow.
That's meaningful.
I think that's what College Unboundalways just kind of strikes me as, you
know, you're always looking for thatmetric that people have missed, looking
for that value that people have missed.
I agree.
Uh, this is the kind of thing thatthey'll write stories about, they'll
write movies about in the future.
(27:05):
That's right.
All right.
Well, we'll see, we'll seewho gets to play you, Jose.
All right.
We've got a lot to think about there.
Thanks again.
And, um, I, uh, uh, I hope that wecan touch base again soon, okay?
Absolutely.
All right.
Thanks, Jose.
Take care.
Welcome to DigicationScholars Conversations.
I'm your host, Jeff Yan.
In this episode, you will hear part twoof my conversation with Jose Rodriguez,
Assistant Vice President of Communityand Belonging at College Unbound.
More links and information about today'sconversation can be found on Digication's
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
(00:22):
Full episodes of Digication ScholarsConversations can be found on
YouTube or your favorite podcast app.
Now, you actually mentioned it.
You know, a little while ago,you, Community is in your title.
Your official title is Assistant VicePresident of Community and Belonging.
Can you tell me a littlebit about what that means?
(00:43):
What do you, so what doyou do at College Unbound?
Uh, so, Community and Belonging.
Um, so, I mentioned that we're growing.
And a lot of what happens with growthis that you lose those core values
that matter most to the, to the school.
So you mentioned The Met andbig picture as a whole, uh, big
(01:05):
picture learning as a whole.
So I'm going to take a pagefrom them in that it does not
matter what state you go to.
If you walk into a big picture school.
It feels the same.
So whether it's The Met in Providence, TheMet in Newport, or Met, uh, in San Diego.
It feels the exact same.
(01:27):
Teachers, uh, instructors areteaching in the same manner.
Kids feel the same.
Kids are empowered.
That's the same thing that I'm tryingto mirror here at the college level,
no matter where we are, um, whethervirtually, on the ground, uh, Seattle,
Chicago, does not matter where we are,you're going to get that same feeling,
that feeling of belonging, that, oh, Ican be my authentic self in this space
(01:52):
because no one's going to judge me.
If anything, people are justgonna encourage me more.
People are gonna, you know, that oldtakes a village mentality is gonna come
into play and people are just gonnashow up for me whenever I need them.
That's what I'm hoping to mirror,regardless of where we're at.
Now, so.
Just, I want to provide alittle context for folks.
(02:13):
The big picture learning that was startedby Dennis Littky, who's also started,
you know, College Unbound, um, thistime with Adam Bush, um, the big picture
learning started, you know, back anothercouple more decades, I want to say.
And, but at this point they started at ahumble location in Providence, downtown.
(02:34):
Um, and then, um, It, it wassuccessful enough that it, the
model has been, has been reproducedin all these different cities.
I think there are, last I remembercounting was somewhere in the 150
to 200 locations worldwide, not justin the United States, but worldwide.
Correct.
Um, and, and many, many thousandsof students and, and, um.
(02:58):
Extremely successful and other, you know,one of those magical place where, you
know, have extremely high graduation rateand college attendee rates, attending,
you know, attendance rates, um, as is areally massive, massive, huge success.
And you had already talked about.
College Unbound already in number ofcities and that's one of the things
(03:21):
that you are trying to maintain,which is this culture, you know,
that you have created so successfullyat the Providence location.
But there's something more to me alsoabout this, these locations in, in my,
You know, in my circle of, um, highereducation friends and, and colleagues,
when they're thinking about a newlocation, we're talking new campuses,
(03:45):
new, new, new dormitories, new cafeterias,new gym, new swimming pools, um, right?
And, uh, new football stadiums.
Research labs at College Unbound, you dosome, you do this very, very differently
(04:05):
and in a way that you can, you know,I, I think that a lot of it passes, you
know, is has a lot to do with how, um.
Many traditional college, we think ofthe way to almost like budget and fund
a college requires all those, all thebrick and many, many, many bricks and
mortar in order to build that experience.
(04:27):
But college has done thingsreally, really smart.
You want to talk a little bit about that?
You know, the partnership thatyou have with various, you
know, organizations and so on.
So, and that, that is also part of thecommunity and belonging work, right?
Making sure that we're aligningourselves with organizations that,
uh, mirror, or that are identicalin mission and vision, right?
(04:51):
Uh, so some of the earlier partnershipswere with, um, the Nonviolence Institute
in Providence, the, uh, the United Way.
Um, and the reason why is, youknow, they, these places had a
population of folks who worked.
Boots on the ground, doing tons ofwork and didn't have a college degree.
The second part of that is thatthey had the space, they have
(05:13):
conference rooms, they have, youknow, offices that aren't being used.
So because CU's model lends itself tobeing able to teach wherever there is
a need, if you have a conference room,we can come in and, you know, that
then becomes college inbound, we don'thave a building, uh, and I don't think
that Ever intended to have buildings.
(05:35):
I think that the motto is that wewill always teach in community.
So wherever learning is happening,that's where we're going to be.
And that also helps with keepingcosts down to the student, right?
We're not, we're not thinking aboutthe having to cover the overhead of
all these massive brick and mortars.
Uh, so yeah.
That the savings then does, uh,show up in what a student pays.
(06:00):
Also, with the utilizing thesecommunity spaces, it also are places
where folks are already familiar with.
Um, so there's a level ofcomfortability that comes with that.
So, more eager and more willing toparticipate because it's already
a place that they've determinedto be a safe place for them.
I remember having that conversation withAdam a number of years ago, and I remember
(06:25):
him telling me that, Oh, yeah, we'retalking to the housing authority in, um, I
forget which city that he was talking to.
And, and I said, Oh, well,what are you doing there?
Are you going to build somethingin the housing authority?
And he was saying, No, no, no, no,we are going to partner because.
These are going to be the, ourstudents are going to be the ones
(06:48):
who already live in these, youknow, these, uh, these areas.
So, instead of having to have the studentseven come to our campus, we go to them.
I think that is so smart.
It's so incredibly smart.
It's good for everyone because, you know,having just generally speaking, I mean,
we just look at just simple numbers here,having one teacher or several teachers
(07:14):
to go to a community instead of havinga whole community of people come to
your campus, it's just more efficient.
It is.
It is a level of efficiency, uh, to that.
But again, I just have tolean on the fact that it also.
Uh, so, and people feeling safe,uh, particularly because most of
our students have been harmed byeducation in some aspect before, right?
(07:37):
So trying to undo that harm is makingsure that the student feels safe.
And if the place where they are iswhere they feel safe, having them
go to another location so thatwe can say we have that location.
To me, would just be silly, right?
And sometimes impractical.
Yep, exactly.
Right.
If you can go to the United waysconference room, where they already had
(08:01):
that, they, they, they're actually, theyjust finished their work over there.
They can just do that.
And versus having to go cross townsomewhere, drive for 30 minutes.
But.
Find parking, you know, you know, that's,those are all things that really count.
Don't you think?
I think a lot of peopledrop out because of that.
And
those are things that are already provennot to work for the working adult.
(08:25):
Those are the thingsthat make people quit.
Uh, like, so I drovearound for 35 minutes.
I couldn't find parking.
I'm already late.
I'm just gonna miss this class.
And you miss that one class.
And then before you know it, it'stwo and three classes because
the same thing keeps happening.
And then again, once again,you walk away feeling defeated.
But all of that could have beenprevented if the school would adjust
(08:49):
to the student as, and not expectingthe student to adjust to the school.
And there are other things that youdo too, like, I know that, I mean,
again, we talked a little bit aboutthe cost, you know, not having to
maintain a building, the HVAC, theeverything that goes with it, right?
(09:09):
But you are able then to redirectyour resources to doing things like.
When you do have group meetups,you're going to provide food,
you're going to provide childcare.
Correct.
I mean, that's an incredible.
Yeah.
And the communal meal again,it's that trying to eliminate
(09:30):
as many barriers as possible.
So thinking about the learning, theworking adult, I get out of work,
I have to go, I got to go cook.
Uh, for my kids.
I gotta, if I'm gonna go to school, thenI gotta bring my kids to the babysitter.
So we're eliminating those two things.
Bring your kids with you.
We'll provide child care.
Uh, don't cook, becausewe'll provide a meal.
(09:52):
So the only thing that you have todo on that day that you're supposed
to be in class is just be present.
Everything else is going tobe taken care of for you.
And I, again, community because thecommunity, the communal meal is as
important as any academics that you'regoing to get one, because it becomes
a networking, uh, time and also.
(10:14):
A time for people to share their,their lived experiences together.
There is something incredible about that.
You know, the power of havingall these people, like you said,
your typical attendees haveincredible lived experiences.
I think that there is something.
(10:35):
That people miss.
And I actually believe that this existsin all of community colleges as well,
by the way, in that going to a four yearcollege, a traditional age college, four
years college, where everyone is thesame age coming in with the same, very
similar set of, you know, so the K 12experiences straight from high school,
(10:58):
you actually get a lot less diverseview of the world and perspectives.
Just, Um, Right, because, youknow, like, just by definition,
they're all the same age.
They've none of them had had,you know, um, a mortgage yet.
They don't have, you know, like,uh, it's, it's just a very, very
(11:20):
similar sort of background going in.
Um, versus I think that in certainlyin, in College Unbound, you get an
incredibly diverse, um, differentbackgrounds and skill sets and,
and, and lived experience coming in.
And, and just what you can learnfrom peers, I think it's already
just absolutely incredible.
(11:43):
I agree.
Do you think that College Unbound, or Idon't know whether, you know, let, let's,
let's do a little thought experiment.
Could College Unbound be?
Be possible for, you know, like,students are going to a more traditional
(12:08):
college, like, age wise, let's say,you know, they're coming out of high
school, they don't have all thislife experience, they, they haven't
had the, you know, like, I triedcollege couple times didn't work out.
It's failed me.
Right.
Oh, I failed out of it.
Whatever.
However you look at it.
Um, they don't have that yet.
They just coming out of high school.
(12:28):
Do you think that College Unboundcould work for or version of
College Unbound could work for them?
Yes.
Um, we, when we existed, um, as a.
as a program within other colleges.
Unfortunately, we would get cutfirst because, you know, it was,
it was a thing that was easily cut.
But yes, the same issues that some of ourfolks are, are dealing with as adults,
(12:55):
our kids are dealing with, although theymay not have the added responsibilities
of paying a mortgage and things like that.
They are experiencing, uh, forlack of better wording, sometimes
imposter syndrome, where theydon't feel like they belong.
And nothing about, uh, at least myexperience has been nothing about a
traditional college is meant to make youfeel like you belong unless you belong.
(13:20):
Like hard to explain it in that fashion.
So you
don't have the privilegeto already belong there.
Just don't get to, if you don't havethe ticket, you're just not supposed
to be there and that you know,
no, no one will make
it.
Yeah.
No one's, no one's justpassing out extra tickets.
It's either you got it or you don't.
Uh, different than a place likeCU where, you know, everyone is
(13:45):
going to get the same treatment.
Everyone's going to, going toget the same sense of belonging.
Um, I, so yes, can it work?
Absolutely.
It's just for colleges that aredealing specifically with that
demographic, then they just, it's, it'sa commitment that they have to take.
And, you know, And provide, andto me, it's indicative of social
(14:07):
services that, um, colleges shouldalso be trying to help with.
Something about, um, this, I mean, I, I,I kind of feel a lot like, you know, Jose,
like, it'll be like another 10 years goesby or 20 years goes by and we got to come
(14:27):
back and I'm glad this is recorded, right?
So then we can say like, oh yeah,back in 2004, we were on the ground
floor of when we were just taking off.
Right, and then, uh, you know,um, and, and I, I just kind of see
how, you know, these things about,you know, servicing the different
types of populations, right, couldpotentially, you know, really scale up.
(14:51):
But I also am thinking about the,the, um, the, the way that you.
Currently, I think at College Unbound,the, the alumni that I meet and people
that, students that I meet are talkingabout the projects, it's almost 100
percent always surround themselves onsocial justice, something to do with the
(15:12):
community, um, and I, I could see how, andthe degree is in um, What was it again?
It's in, uh, it's a bachelor'sdegree in leadership and
organizational leadership
and change, right, um, which is a perfectfit for, for what you're doing right now.
But I also feel like thatthere is a whole sense of.
(15:35):
It potentially going into, Hey, if youwant to study social work, sociology,
like some, something else could be,could, could also be sprung by the same
set of principles, um, that are probablyclosely related to your current degree.
Offering.
Do you see a, do you see a,see that in, in potential in
(15:57):
the future of College Unbound?
I think that the degree offering opensitself up to what our, our population
of students are actually about.
Um, so working with a lot of non profits,uh, Particularly because those are the,
those are the folks doing the work in thecommunity means just that these are folks
(16:20):
that are already driven by change, right?
Um, and the piece of paper just givesthem that validation that they now can
say, Oh, I have a degree, but they'realready change agents in their own right.
Um, it's always interesting tosee folks within an organization.
(16:42):
Start to feel valued simply becausethey start to talk about what they're
learning in school and immediatelystart to talk to their peers about it
and like how that just opens them upto the possibility of not just creating
change in the community but alsomaybe I could run this organization
(17:03):
or maybe I should just start my
own.
Yeah, the level of drive,like you said, It's so strong
amongst your community, right?
That it's almost like, these arepeople who have incredible drives, but
for some reason, someone says, put,you know, they've been doing it with
(17:29):
both hands tied behind the back and,and College Unbound helps untie that.
Yep, exactly.
Right.
And then they're, they're like, well, nowI'm often to doing, you know, I could, I
could be even more productive than before.
I think that is really amazingand it's really amazing.
The other thing that I, I had found thatis pretty amazing is that you are also not
(17:53):
holding on to certain one single programand just sort of be like, this is it.
And I remember talking to Adam, andyou tell me how this works, but that,
for example, you might partner with anorganization, let's take United Way,
and that at some point, you might say,well, we've helped this entire group of
(18:17):
people, this cohort of people now, thatwe will pause potentially for a little
while and then we will come back later.
We may help another use the redirect theresource to help another organization.
So again, I think United Wayis a good example of that.
So our local chapter of United Way,we graduated all the folks that they
(18:38):
had who didn't have bachelor's degree.
So then it's like we canno...
Not that we can't go partner withthem again, but we've already got all
their, all their workers, uh, a degree.
Will they do a big hire in the nearfuture and HR immediately connect them
to us because they know the value oftheir employees having the degree?
(19:02):
Absolutely.
So it's, we're going to get,we're going to get through all
these employees and then we'll go.
Uh, we'll take a pause, uh, we'll waita year, maybe a year and a half, go back
and just restart the process all over.
Um, what it does also, it helpsa little bit of, um, anticipation
(19:23):
build up for those folks who came onafter that happened, because now they
have something to look forward to.
But there's something also so incredibleabout that efficiency of you using your
resources and going to the community.
So you, you are there when they havethe needs, as opposed to them coming,
you know, you have a fixed placewhere they have to come to, right?
(19:45):
Exactly.
Because then that's, you can servethem so much better that way,
and not having to, you know, finda building and commit to that
for the next 25 years, right?
What are some of the things that Ifyou were to, you know, I think there
(20:08):
are a lot of, I think there, I wouldsay there, I would love to hear your
view on, you know, what you would sayto a couple of different groups of
people, couple of different audiences.
I know there are listeners to this.
One are the.
(20:28):
Currently, someone who's working, teachingat, let's say a college at a community
college at a four year college, theymight want to do changes to make things
different for themselves, not necessarilyto the level of starting their own
school and creating a college unbound.
They might want to, you know, do somethingin their own classes to, to take a,
(20:52):
take a page out of what you've done.
Something incrediblyinteresting and successful.
What are some of your, uh,what would you say to them?
Listen to the student.
I think that regardless of what age thestudent is, they usually have the answer.
(21:13):
Uh, and sometimes we have toget out of our own way and
allow the students to lead.
Um, what is school about?
Uh, because I also teach at CU, so partof the reason that it's cool to teach
here is because I can adapt my curriculum,my syllabus to the student need.
(21:35):
Um, so not being so rigid in that thisis the only way it's going to work.
And if I don't do it this way,then I'm not going to provide
you a good enough education.
So I think that educators acrossthe board could learn from that.
In that it's not, it's not onesize fits all, unfortunately.
And there are some students that are,um, Not because they don't know how to do
(22:00):
something or because they don't get thecontent, but may not be able to learn in
the way in your particular teaching style.
So have a little bit of movement in that,like allow yourself some flexibility.
Uh, so that when you do come acrossthose students, don't discourage them
by, uh, basically not teaching themthe way that they need to be taught.
(22:22):
Or I'll tell, I'll tell them that they're,they should not consider public speaking.
Exactly.
Right.
And I think that there's alot to be said about that.
By the way, I, I love what yousaid, just listen to the students.
And I also think thatthere is something about.
(22:42):
Something that I have constantlyfelt at College Unbound when I
visited is that you do not ever fora moment underestimate your students.
Absolutely
not.
Right.
You believe that they can notonly can they do it, they can do
it as well as anyone in the world
can.
And if not better.
Right.
So it's, it's not a, You comehere to work for me because I'm
(23:07):
the, the head of this class.
I get to say what you have todo and you just have to do it.
It doesn't feel like thatat all at College Unbound.
Like that doesn't exist.
Um, second, I want to say that,um, so then let me ask you, and
this is, um, I guess a part of.
(23:29):
You know, probably somethingthat you do all the time.
What do you say to students, on the otherhand, who are, um, you know, either could
be looking for something like CollegeUnbound, or are attending a school right
now, and there's not College Unbound,and they're feeling a little bit stuck?
(23:51):
My
one advice would be what I, what Iwish that someone would have told
me and that you are not the problem.
The institution is, um, really, I wouldjust start to learn how to advocate
for, for, for self and look for,although that their College Unbound
(24:13):
may not exist in that institution,there has to be someone within the
institution with similar values.
And it's a matter of identifyingthat person, you know, who.
Collaborating with that person onsome advocating, uh, in order to
move whatever it is that you'retrying to get done forward.
And do you...
(24:37):
And
for those who might be interestedin learning more about College
Unbound, what should they do?
They should just come toyour website or come visit?
What should they do?
I would always encourage folks to comevisit, but our website is the best
way to just learn a little bit more.
Um, but also, uh, again, Communityand Belonging is in my title.
(24:57):
So if you're looking to learn anything,all my information is on the website,
including my cell phone number.
Um, so I'm always willing and ableto take calls, emails, whatever
needs to happen in order to spreadthe word of what we do here at CU.
It's amazing.
(25:17):
Well, um, Jose, thank you so, so muchfor sharing all of your insights.
You are incredible.
You're an inspiration.
And I think that, um, it's also really,I think it's so smart of College
Unbound to also hire their own alumbecause they are such an amazing, they
(25:39):
are all people with amazing drives.
And they, they are living examples ofwhat could, what success could look like.
Um, and, and it's, uh, it's a, it'sa, it's truly a, um, uh, you know, a
breath of fresh air in higher education.
(26:01):
Well, thank you for having this space.
It's definitely a, a breath offresh air just to be able to have
a conversation about a place thatI love and hold dear to my heart.
Okay.
All right.
Well, um, I hope to, um, hear moreof your success story and maybe in
another 10 years, we'll see where,where, where, where things are.
(26:22):
Um, and, uh, I, I have no doubt thatit's going to be a massive success.
And it's one of those things that it'sgoing to be successful in ways that
people don't, don't realize, right.
It's not going to be in some kindof weird ranking thing, right.
It's not going to be in that,but it's going to be measured in
metrics that are unusual to people.
(26:43):
And, but once we see it andthen we'll be like, wow.
That's meaningful.
I think that's what College Unboundalways just kind of strikes me as, you
know, you're always looking for thatmetric that people have missed, looking
for that value that people have missed.
I agree.
Uh, this is the kind of thing thatthey'll write stories about, they'll
write movies about in the future.
(27:05):
That's right.
All right.
Well, we'll see, we'll seewho gets to play you, Jose.
All right.
We've got a lot to think about there.
Thanks again.
And, um, I, uh, uh, I hope that wecan touch base again soon, okay?
Absolutely.
All right.
Thanks, Jose.
Take care.
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