August 2, 2023 • 41 mins
Join us for a heart-to-heart with the remarkable Dr. Shakesha Costict, a trailblazer in the world of mental health counseling and education. Ever wondered how one can find peace and purpose amidst adversity? Dr. Costict candidly shares her journey, from grappling with her identity to becoming a beacon of hope and strength in her field.
Navigating the landscape of mental health and education, Dr. Costict discusses her evolution from clinician to educator and trainer, revealing a profound passion for teaching and leadership. We take a deep dive into the challenges faced during this transition, the struggle of letting go, and the monumental importance of self-care and compassion. Dr. Costict emphasizes the power of release, reminding us that it's okay to lean on others for support.
In the final act of this inspiring conversation, we explore the liberating sensation of being exactly where we're meant to be, and the profound impact it can have on the future generation. Dr. Costict leaves us with a poignant reminder of our significance, love, and capacity to do impactful work. This episode is a treasure chest of wisdom for anyone seeking to find serenity and purpose in their life journey, or for those who want to gain a deeper understanding of the world of mental health counseling and education. Tune in for an enriching conversation filled with invaluable insights.
Grab a sample chapter of Dr. PBJ's new book, Disrupting Burnout: The Professional Woman's Lifeline to Finding Purpose- https://www.patricebucknerjackson.com/book
Meet Dr. Costict
Dr. Shakesha Monique Costict is a Doctor of Philosophy in Counselor Education and Supervision. Dr. Costict is a Washington state licensed mental health counselor, a nationally certified counselor, and a child mental health specialist. In addition to being a mental health counselor, Dr. Costict is a clinical supervisor providing licensure supervision to master’s level counselors. She provides mental health consultation services to community partners and shares valuable resources with individuals seeking mental health services. With a specialization in counselor education and supervision, Dr. Costict’s research focuses on determining whether the stigma associated with seeking mental health services played a role in African Americans becoming mental health counselors. Dr. Costict currently holds the role of teaching faculty to Master’s level counseling students, where the focus is to support the development of mental health counselors through mentorship, faculty, and administrative engagement.
Connect with Dr. Costict
● Facebook- https://www.facebook.com/shakesha.costict?mibextid=LQQJ4d
● LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/shakesha-costict-phd-lmhc-ncc-cmhs-121408150/
Connect with Dr. PBJ
● To connect with Dr. PBJ, go to https://www.patricebucknerjackson.com/speaking
● Do you need a dynamic transformational speaker? Dr. PBJ is ready to serve. Check out Dr. PBJ Speaks | https://www.patricebucknerjackson.com/speaking
● Follow Dr. PBJ on IG @drpatricebucknerjackson for #aspoonfulofpbj.
● Support The Show | https://www.paypal.com/paypalme/lovepbj?locale.x=en_US
Upgrade to Premium Membership to access the Disrupting Burnout audiobook and other bonus content: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1213895/supporters/new
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (00:08):
Hey friends , I am Dr Patrice Buckner
Jackson, but you can call me PBJ.
Welcome to another episode ofDisrupting Burnout, where we are
equipping educators with thestrategy they need to do
purposeful work without burningout.
And, friends, this month inJuly, you know that we are
honoring specifically educators.
(00:28):
We're honoring the folks whoteach, who share, who train.
I have another educator tointroduce you to and I'm so
excited for you to meet thispowerful woman.
So we are having folks who arein the classroom, we're having
folks who are on collegecampuses, we're having folks who
are staff, folks who arefaculty, folks who are in the
(00:50):
administration.
Because we are so diverse andvaried in the field of education
, I wanted to share with youexpertise from different
perspectives of what they havelearned, but also what they are
learning about how to keep yourpeace when you work in education
, about how to do the purposefulwork without overwhelming
(01:12):
burnout.
So I'm so excited.
I am so excited.
I had the honor of meeting thiswoman in a coaching program and
ever since then we've been apart of the same community and
it's just an honor.
It's an honor to be in herpresence, to hear her share.
She just brings peace when shespeaks, and you'll know what I'm
(01:33):
talking about here in a moment,but let me introduce you to Dr
Shakisha Monique Kostik.
She is a doctor of philosophy incounselor education and
supervision.
Dr Kostik is a Washington statelicensed mental health
counselor, a nationallycertified counselor and a child
(01:54):
mental health specialist.
In addition to being a mentalhealth counselor, dr Kostik is a
clinical supervisor, providinglicensure supervision to
master's level counselors.
She provides mental healthconsultation services to
community partners and sharesvaluable resources with
(02:14):
individuals seeking mentalhealth services.
With the specialization incounselor education and
supervision, dr Kostik'sresearch focuses on determining
whether the stigma associatedwith seeking mental health
services played a role inAfrican Americans becoming
mental health counselors.
(02:35):
Ooh, that's good.
Dr Kostik currently holds arole of teaching faculty to
master's level counselingstudents, where the focus is to
support the development ofmental health counselors through
mentorship, faculty andadministrative engagement.
Dr Shakisha Kostik welcome toDisrupting Burnout.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (02:58):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
It is such an honor.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (03:02):
It's such an honor to have you here and I
look forward to what you willshare.
So let's get into it by youtelling the people Now.
I read your phenomenal bio andI know this is just a snippet.
It really is, but tell thepeople who you are Ooh, all
right.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (03:19):
First and foremost, thinking about that,
I'm a child of God and I thinkthat I know that's what outlines
who I am, beyond every accoladeor any mention of what I do
professionally.
And after that I'm Dr ShakishaKostik, and I say that proudly
(03:40):
because I, as you know, juststarting to get into the feeling
of this is who I am Like.
It's beyond the profession,it's the work that came up until
this point that has allowed meto proudly say, like you've
earned this, this is who you are.
And I'm just kind of in thisplace where I'm continuing to
(04:01):
learn who I am and to figure outwho I am.
And but the foundation, thefoundation is just kind of being
in this place that God has hasordained me to be.
Now, like, wherever my foot is,my, whatever my steps are, it's
peace and that's who I am.
And I've been in this space ofjust wanting to be peace for
(04:23):
anyone that I come in contactwith, having the conversation,
even with family, about kind ofjust being this light.
And so it's more than just likethese things that I can list
off.
It's beyond just what's in thebio, it's just truly feeling
that there's this awarenessthat's there and that awareness
(04:44):
is that I'm peace everywhere Iwalk is peaceful and I wear that
and I carry that proudly.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (04:52):
Oh, my goodness, you are peace.
You are the way that you speak,the sound of your voice, how
you show up in the space.
You bring you seed, you bringforth peace.
That is exactly who you are,and it's so powerful to hear a
woman who is as accomplished asyou are recognized.
(05:13):
Yes, grateful for all of that,yes, I wear it well and at the
core of who I am, I am peace andI am light, and we know that
you were peace and light beforethe doctorate.
You were peace and light beforethe faculty appointment.
You were peace and light allthe years of your life.
That is who he created you tobe, and so many of us become
(05:38):
overwhelmed because we don'tknow who we are.
We've been successful.
Success does not equate purpose.
There are two different things.
You can be successful withoutknowing who you are, but that
success will never have peaceuntil you identify the identity,
the true, the core brillianceof who you are.
(05:59):
Dr Kostick, talk to us a littlebit about your path, because I
know that your facultyappointment is relatively new in
your life.
So how did you get to where youare right now?
Dr. Shakesha Costict (06:11):
Yeah, and I want to kind of go back for a
minute about what you said aboutthis.
Just kind of, as of last year,I wasn't sure what my identity
was.
So I was still in my doctorateprogram, but I was so unsure and
I remember telling my mom I waslike I have all of these things
that I've done, all of thiswork, all this clinical practice
(06:33):
that I have, yet I still don'tfeel like I know who I am and I
felt on some level like defeated, because I'm like how in the
world would I get to this spaceand not really know who I am?
Like I can't articulate that,and so, like, going back a ways
I have I always share this likeI've never, ever, ever wanted to
(06:56):
teach anything, anything Likeever, but I've always found
myself in positions ofleadership or of development or
of training, and it honestlywasn't until like this last year
, maybe year and a half, almosttwo years that I started to fall
into this teaching piece and Istarted to say you know what,
(07:17):
maybe there's a little bit ofsomething that's here I like to
say like initially, when I wentto school as an undergrad, I
wanted to be a marine biologistand I ended up a counselor, and
so, you know, life happens,things change.
But it was really kind of thispiece of like with my story and
(07:39):
knowing that the field that I'min is mental health counseling
and now I'm a counselor,educator, thinking back on even
my childhood, talking about yourfeelings or talking about, you
know, secrets that we hold sotight within our family unit and
we don't take the time toexpress.
It wasn't something thathappened.
(08:00):
It wasn't something that, like,I had never.
If I truly think back up untilundergrad, I don't think I've
ever really heard of anybody sayanything about counseling.
And now that I think about it,it's so foreign to me, like how
in the world did we go throughlife not talking about this?
But that was the time.
That was kind of the space thatas a community, as an
(08:22):
African-American community, thatwe were in, and if you have had
generations of people nothaving these conversations, then
why would I know about it?
And so it really wasn't, untilI was in my senior year of high
school and I took a psychologyclass and again I went to
undergrad to be a marinebiologist, but that didn't pan
(08:43):
out and there was a counselingcourse and I was like you know
what, let's try it out.
And that's what led me on thispath of being a counselor.
And I practiced clinically for10 years and so, again, if we
kind of move through that spaceof being a counselor and knowing
that kind of going back for mydoctor and what that looked like
(09:05):
, and even that was someonespeaking into me, like there was
someone when I was a teenagerthat said you can go and get
your PhD before you're 40 yearsold, and I was like what even is
that?
Like I knew nothing.
My parents just said you'regonna go to college and I'm like
, okay, I guess I'll go formarine biology.
Didn't know how anything wouldget paid for, you know.
(09:27):
So there's debt and things likethat that have to be, and
that's a whole nother thing.
Because, again, when you have asystem that things aren't
talked about and things areunable to be changed, we
continue into these differentpatterns.
And so you know, I'm just kindof going through life and I went
(09:47):
for my, got my bachelor's,great, All right, maybe I can go
back to school, well, and atthat time it was like you can't
really make a whole lot of moneyin the counseling pool without
having a master's, I mean, still, that's a whole nother topic of
conversation.
But it was just kind of one ofthose things All right, well,
let's go get your master's.
And so I did that.
(10:07):
And then I was like, well, whatabout it?
So you know, this was spokenover my life when I was a
teenager and now I'm in my late20s, early 30s like why won't I,
why can't I?
Like, and again, this piece ofno one has done it before me.
And so, being like this firsttime college graduate and then
(10:30):
the first one to get a master's,and looking at this space that
I'm in now, and knowing that Igoing through the PhD program,
at first it was easy and then itgot really hard.
And then I started to findmyself in a space where, when I
was in first grade, my teachertold my mom and my aunt that,
(10:54):
paraphrasing, I'm gonna struggle, I'm not going to be able to
amount, so a whole lot ofanything again, which is another
layer of a story that many ofour children are told.
And knowing that, even when Iwas in my PhD program, what came
up for me?
Thinking back to grade school,I had a reading comprehension
(11:15):
problem.
So, as I was going through thisresearch and trying to really
kind of dive deeply into theresearch and truly understand it
.
The fear that came up was Idon't understand any of this.
Why am I even here?
Do I even belong, like all ofthis self doubt?
Thankfully, I have a plan, mamaand daddy.
(11:35):
And there were moments that weall fasted together and we said
you're gonna make it throughthis quarter and I was like all
right, god, I don't know howthis one work, but we're gonna
do it.
And throughout that entire time,where the teaching piece comes
into play is because for a while, I was struggling, trying to
figure out, like, what do I evenresearch?
(11:56):
And one thing I knew I didn'tknow there was research behind
it, but what I knew is thatwithin the African-American
community, there's stigma there,and what the professors were
saying at the time was okay, nowback it up, like I already know
this, how do I back it up?
But again, no one prepared meto go on this journey.
So I wasn't sure, like, what toexpect.
(12:18):
And so, once I really startedto dive into and do the research
and have the interviews, Ilearned so much and I again,
child of God, person of faith,that's where my foundation is.
I also became aware of thispiece, that's this underlying
piece of especially within somein the African-American
(12:39):
community, with the church andwith counseling and with the
stigma and with we'll take itall to God.
Yes, I'm gonna take it all toGod.
But he also put me in thisspace to be able to kind of hold
a space for those who sometimesfeel like they can't pray about
it, or they can pray about itbut I also.
It's almost that analogy of wehave a doctor for a reason we
(13:01):
can still pray to God to heal us, but we still have a doctor
that we still have to go and geta checkup from, and so, kind of
putting all of that together,what I found was, as I worked
through my doctorate program andI began to even work with
master's level students, I said,ooh, there's something here and
ooh, there's not really anyblack people, especially in my
(13:25):
area.
So I live in the PacificNorthwest, so we're like all the
way on the other side of thestate and the city that I live
in is much less diverse than youknow.
I'm about four hours fromSeattle, so much less diverse
than even that side of the stateand so, knowing that, okay,
there's nobody else that reallylooks like me that I've been
(13:45):
able to come in contact with.
So how do I expect to diversifythis counseling profession if
there's nobody else that lookslike me?
And so part of the teachingpiece came up for me because I
wanted to make surerepresentation was there.
And although right before, liketwo months before I finished
(14:08):
school I didn't know I wasalmost finished I wanted to give
all the way up.
I said I can't do this, I'm sodone.
It had been a number of years.
And my boyfriend, he was likeyou can give up?
And I said no, I can't.
Like why would you say that?
And he said, no, you can't.
If you want to give up, you can.
And I was like you know what?
(14:29):
Thanks, because that's what Ineeded to hear, because no, I
can't, I'm too far along thisjourney.
And I know he said that as away to like give me a kick in
the butt like girl, come on.
But even that piece, within twomonths I was finished.
And then I was like wow, wow,it's done.
And then kind of hearing peoplejust and it wasn't again about
(14:52):
like the congratulations, butpart of it was because I don't
see this.
And so the kids around me.
They don't see it.
And so now I'm in a place whereI can go into the classroom and
I can authentically be who I am.
And that's one thing you toldme.
I don't think you remember theend of last year and you made a
statement about like, and I hadit in my mind this morning and
(15:15):
of course, I'm gonna forget itright now.
But it's really about not losingwho I am once I'm in this space
of education and highereducation and I have to say I am
newer to this teaching thefaculty piece but it was so
refreshing to be in a class andto see students that look like
(15:36):
me and to hear one of thestudents with my natural hair
out, to hear one of the studentssay, wow, and I knew exactly
what was.
The student wasn't on mute, andso everyone else kind of heard
it as well, but I don't thinkeveryone else understood what it
meant.
And so for me in that moment Iwas like, okay, I'm exactly,
even though I fought this for somany years and but I fought it
(15:58):
until I knew that there was auntil God released say, okay,
it's time.
And now that I'm in the placethat I'm in, I can see the
impact, and that's really whatI'm all about when it comes to
this teaching and the mentorshippiece is impact Like what
impact can I have on someoneelse to be able to kind of help
them along their journey?
Dr. Patrice Jackson (16:21):
Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.
I love how in your story, howyou've been led the whole time,
even when you felt like youdidn't know where you were going
, even when you felt like youdidn't belong.
What does this look like?
Is this a thing You've been ledall along, from taking the
(16:42):
psychology class in high schoolto taking the counseling class
in college, the entire thing tothe person saying you can get a
doctorate before you're 40,you've been led.
You've been led, and that'swhat I want people to know.
Your purpose is not lost.
It's not lost, it's right there.
Purpose doesn't show up afteryou get the PhD.
(17:04):
Purpose doesn't show up afteryou get the faculty appointment.
Purpose has been throughoutyour life and it had to be you.
It had to be you.
When you walk into those spacesand you look around and you
don't see anybody who looks likeyou, the human side says I
don't belong here becausethere's nobody else here like me
.
But the truth is, you're theone friend, you're the one,
(17:29):
you're the one to show up inthat space.
You are the one to be present,you are the one to be the face
so that others might see, sothat that student who had that
involuntary, automatic wow right, so that student could see
you're the one, you're the onethat's called to that specific
(17:49):
space.
So I just appreciate yourjourney.
I appreciate your journey somuch and in standing in the
space, like all the things worktogether.
So your Christian churchbackground, along with your
education, your experience andyour skills, you can stand in
(18:11):
that space.
You can stand in that space andhold hands with the person in
the church and say, hey, yes,jesus is a healer and sometimes
he heals through thesecounselors.
Sometimes he heals through youmaking certain decisions for
your life.
Sometimes he heals through youchanging behavior.
(18:31):
So, yes, I'm with you, you'reright, he is a healer, he's
always been a healer.
He is the healer and he mightwant to use this friend right
over here.
So there are so many therapists, so many counselors in the
whole wide world, but there's aspecific call upon your life.
(18:53):
Even your research is not acoincidence.
The research that you do isbased on your experience.
But watch this you had to havethat experience so that you
could give voice to thisresearch.
Even that experience was a partof purpose.
You had to experience that sothat you can speak to it in a
(19:15):
way.
You're not just out herereading articles and writing
about them, but you know whatyou know.
You're not just out hereteaching your students from the
textbook, because you can add.
You can add Experience to thatten years of experience in
counseling, but also yourpersonal experience.
You bring a perspective thatnobody else can bring.
(19:36):
You are in the middle of yourbrilliance.
Listen, you are right whereyou're supposed to be.
You are right where you aresupposed to be.
So, and dr Kostak and I are incommunity, so we talk all the
time, y'all, so you mightexperience some of that.
But talk to me because you.
(19:57):
You said I never wanted to be ateacher, right?
But I know that there have beenglimpses of glimpses of
teaching throughout your wholeJourney.
So where were the spaces inyour life where teaching would
pop up?
But you didn't see it as athing right?
Dr. Shakesha Costict (20:13):
Um, I think, first and foremost
actually in the church.
So a lot of times, like forthose of us, that's where our
foundation is, that's where alot of that leadership starts.
And so I have been praisedancing for whoo since I, I
think, was 11 years old and soat different times in spaces I
was actually over or teachingand leading the dance ministry,
(20:38):
and I work with our children nowin our church, and so Even that
, now I like to ask them what doyou want to do on youth Sunday?
And they'll tell me and I lookat that as Leadership
development at an early age,helping them to identify their
voices, because I've always beena very quiet, like I, if I
don't have to speak out, I won't.
(21:00):
Even now, I mean as a, as ateacher, yeah, I gotta speak out
, but in other spaces, if Idon't have to, then I won't.
And so, but a lot of it startedlike within the church and just
kind of Continue.
That's been a consistent orconstant piece throughout my
entire life that I can remember,I think.
Other spaces, like I had jobswhere I've worked with children
(21:21):
and I've worked in like youthcenter, hey, friend, listen, I
have an Exciting news for you.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (21:29):
So if you've been following, you know
I've been writing this book andI am so excited about getting it
into your hands.
And guess what?
Today I'm offering you thefirst Sample of my new book,
this weapon burnout.
Friend, listen, we have morework to do.
Okay, it's still going toprofessional editing, we still
(21:50):
need to design the book, but Ican't wait to all that's done
for you to start digging in.
So there's a sample copy that Iread myself For you that's
available to you today.
All you have to do is go towwwpatricebuttnerjaxsoncom slash
book.
(22:11):
Again, patricebuttnerjaxsoncomslash book.
Grab your sample, listen to thesample chapter and listen.
Let me know what you think.
I cannot wait for you to hearthis book.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (22:26):
Friend, go grab it today and then someone
comes to me and say, oh, do youhave your curriculum developed?
I said what I?
I didn't, I don't want to, Idon't want to teach like, I just
want to watch the kids play,make sure they're not hurting
themselves, being nice to eachother, things of that nature,
and Just really this piece ofokay.
Now I got to make a curriculumand I'm like, okay, here comes
(22:50):
this teaching thing.
Again and again it's just beenroles like that that have come
up over the years, and then evenat one of working for a company
when I was able to work withincoming freshmen to help them
get acclimated to high school,and Again that was in a
leadership position.
Because I was over that program, I'm like, all right, here we
(23:10):
go again.
But it wasn't until I wasclinically working as a
counselor and I had spent fiveyears working just as a
counselor, working with childrenand families.
And then I had the opportunityto have an intern and and I said
, wow, like this is the teachingpiece.
I still wasn't in a space whereI was like ready to go full
(23:31):
force with it, but I looked atit as I'm training someone else
and so I think for me the theidea, or you, just even changing
the language from teacher totrainer helped me kind of just
feel comfortable in that space.
And so when I had the, theintern, and just being able to
(23:52):
watch someone develop and to beable to support them and Work
with them even in thosedifficult moments, and then to
be able to see them graduate,like whoa, I had a hand in that
and To get to that space andthen, shortly after that,
actually became a clinicalsupervisor in the same Agency
(24:12):
and I supervised a team up uptowards seven or eight
counselors, some brand new, somewell, actually all of them were
pretty much brand new to thecounseling field as a
professional.
And again it was this piece ofokay, this is I love this like I
had gotten to a point I mean,counseling can burn you out just
like any career path can, and Ihad gotten to a point where I
(24:34):
was burned out on just all-dayclinical practice, meeting with
clients back to back.
But when I got into that spaceof supervisor one I was, I
worked full-time when I wasthrough my doctor program and so
I just ended up switching fromthe full-time Counseling work to
the supervisor piece and thatdid give me a little bit more
(24:55):
Breathing room to do my schoolwork as well.
But it was in that role that Iwas like, okay, this is where my
heart is, like I love thispiece of just being able to
watch someone grow and to watchsomeone blossom, to watch
someone come into their own andreally kind of be in the space
where they get to determine,like, who am I as a professional
(25:19):
?
And so as I went through thatrole for five years and it was
at the end of mine, once Ifinished school, I remember
looking at my supervisor at thetime and I said I'm not gonna be
here by the end of the year,and that was maybe in March or
April.
That was before I finishedschool.
I knew I was finishing, butthat was before I finished
(25:41):
school.
And I just remember saying thatto everyone, like I'm not gonna
be here by the end of the year.
And then it came time and itwas one of those situations
where I was so content, I was solike I knew that job like the
back of my hand and it was like,okay, but there's more, like if
I stay here, I'm doing adisservice to myself, I'm doing
a disservice to the person who'scoming behind me and to whoever
(26:05):
I meant to impact in the future.
And so it's difficult as it wasand I left.
It's great to be in a spacewhere you can leave on such a
high that if anything everhappened, I don't think they
would hesitate to have me back.
But I think the most importantpiece of all of that is when I
left as a supervisor.
(26:27):
My goal was to always, alwayswork with my staff so that one
day they can take my position,and so when I left, it was one
of my counselors that I hadworked with for like three years
at that point who actuallystepped into that role of
supervisor, and she and I stilltext to this day.
I think I texted her last weekhey, how are things going?
(26:50):
And her message to me was thankyou so much for everything that
you taught me, because I'm ableto utilize that now in the work
that I'm doing.
And so even when I think aboutlike the role of teaching and
leadership and what that lookslike, I always say I want you to
be able to step into myposition, because that means I'm
(27:11):
going somewhere else and thenyou're moving into the next.
And even when I was a counselor,and even as a supervisor, I
would work with clients and Isay I want you to work me out of
a job.
I want you to get to a placewhere you can handle and you can
maintain, and you don't evenneed to come in to see me maybe
every now and then a checkup,but work me out of a job so that
you can have the skills thatare needed for you to kind of
(27:32):
truly succeed in life.
And that's I look at that from aleadership point as well and so
as kind of a faculty teachernow and really just working with
these students.
It's this piece of I would.
I want to pour in as much as Ican to those who are going to be
(27:53):
the next generation ofcounselors, whether they're
counselors of color or not.
I want you to be in a space towhere you truly can say I've
received the best education thatI can from this university
because of this particulareducator who felt the need to
pour deeply into me.
And it's amazing and although,like I recently started, it's
(28:15):
been almost a year now just thispiece of just listening to the
students give their feedback andI'm like whoa, like I don't
seem, like I'm brand new, like Ifeel like it seems as if I know
what I'm doing and you know howsometimes we start something.
That's like man, I don't, Idon't think I know what I'm
doing, but I have learned thatyou do know, you do know.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (28:40):
You do know the setting changed, but the
purpose never changed.
You've been preparing for thisall your life, since 11 years
old, dancing and starting tolead the dance.
So you do know.
You do know what you're doingand I appreciate the way you
honor the power of release.
We have a hard time letting go.
(29:00):
It's possible that somethingwas perfect for you in one
season that no longer fits inthe current season and so many
of us end up overwhelmed andburnt out because we've
overstayed our welcome.
We're out of place, somebodyelse is supposed to be in your
shoes and you're supposed to besomeplace else, but we have such
(29:24):
a hard time of letting go ofsomething that seems to be
working.
It doesn't make sense that youwill release something that's
working out pretty well.
Why would you let it go?
But purpose evolves and itcalls you.
It calls you to move into thenext thing.
I love your philosophy of workme out of a job.
(29:46):
I love your philosophy becausenot only does that create
loyalty between you and yourteam.
So leaders, supervisors,department chairs, I hope you're
listening.
If you give your peopleeverything just give them
everything that you know, whatwill happen is not only will
they be dedicated to theinstitution, but they will be
(30:08):
loyal to you because you'vegiven so much, you've invested
so much.
And when it is time for you totransition, it's a shame that so
many leaders transition andthere's nobody ready to step up.
So we have to do a nationalsearch to find somebody else,
because we don't have anybodyinternally that we have mentored
(30:30):
, that we have trained, that wehave coached to be ready to step
into the next.
I'm so grateful for leaders thatI've experienced in my life
that taught me enough that whenit was time for them to go, it
was a no-brainer, that it wastime for me to step in.
It's such a gift.
It's such a gift not just toyour people but to yourself,
(30:51):
because you know when you'vetrained them well, you can let
go.
You can let go because you knowthey're ready.
So the power of release is soimportant, because we end up
staying too long, we end upholding on too long when it's
time to release that expressionof purpose, that passion, that
(31:12):
expression of purpose and walkinto another expression of
purpose.
So, dr Kosting, and we won'thold the people too much longer,
but for the sake of our facultymembers who are listening over
this last year of you being inthis position and having this
experience.
What is one of the lessonsyou've learned through your
(31:35):
experience so far as a facultymember?
Dr. Shakesha Costic (31:37):
Preparation , I think for me just I'm a
preparer in so many ways anyway,and so I often say like if I
don't know what I'm talkingabout when I go in front of the
students, then how do I expectthem to truly understand?
And so for me it takes time tojust prepare, like what's in
(31:59):
front of me, what does thesyllabus look like?
How am I going to explain theinformation?
How can I make it so that I'mspeaking in a way that's easily
understood?
And then, like, along with thatis I'm learning kind of
different ways of self-care nowbecause I'm in a different role,
and so, with that trying to fitin, and I work remotely, so I
(32:24):
teach remotely, so I'm home.
Before I was in an office when Ipracticed clinically.
Now I'm home full-time andtrying to figure out boundaries.
Like my quarter just startedand I was teaching and meeting
with some students yesterday andwe talked about time management
and boundaries and what doesthat look like?
(32:45):
And then for a second I waslike you know, sometimes I still
struggle with this because I'mstill trying to, I still feel
new, but then I also feel as ifI'm starting to kind of really
settle into the space.
And so sometimes, when I stillfeel new, I'm still trying to
figure it out and put all thepuzzle pieces together, and I
(33:08):
have learned that for me itreally does take time, or at
least I think it takes time.
Although you know the chair andother people and they might say
, okay, here, do this, here dothat, I'm just like whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, hold on, that's nothow I operate.
So, trying to balance it all,like knowing that I have a time
(33:29):
limit, that's different now, butI also have to make sure I'm
taking care of myself.
And what does that look like?
And so I have often foundmyself so overwhelmed that I
just burst into tears and thenI'm calling my mama, and then
I'm listening to my music, andthen I'm doing whatever I need
to do to try to settle myself.
And I almost found myself inthat space within the last
(33:50):
couple of weeks and I was proudof myself because I didn't go
there Like normally.
I didn't go there and I'm like,oh my gosh, like how do I, what
do I do, and all this.
But I didn't.
I like I think I took a momentand I thought about what was
happening, like, okay, I've beenhere before.
What do I need to do to makesure I don't become so
(34:12):
overwhelmed again that I can'tmanage.
And in that time I think Ieither wrote down a list or I
thought about my list of whatare these things that I need to
do to finish up this quarter andprepare for next quarter, what
can I do in this allotted timethat's going to help me manage
so that I don't feel overwhelmed?
And when I did that, I was like, oh okay, this feels good.
(34:36):
I think.
Another piece too being acounselor, I have a counselor
now, so that has helped me a tonand I would often share with
people like, oh, you need to goto counseling, you need to do
this.
And I was never doing it, likeI also had that stigma, even
though I wrote about the stigma.
I also had the stigma, I alsohad the fear, I also had the
(34:58):
hesitation.
But I've noticed that that hasjust allowed me to free so many
things and just to have be in aspace where I can truly, just
truly be open to receivewhatever's coming my way and
notice the impact of the thingsthat's happening.
And so what's happened andhelped during this phase of
(35:18):
teaching now is that I've justfound the moments of peace, like
what do I need to do to makesure I have peace in this moment
?
What again that preparation?
What do I need to prepare forin advance, so that I've been
known for myself as just aserial procrastinator, so I
(35:39):
can't operate like that anymore.
I'm learning.
It won't help me and it won'thelp the students.
So now, how do I get out ofthat space of procrastination so
that I can make sure I'mprepared for the next class
that's coming up and I'mprepared for the next one that's
happening?
And when it's towards the endof the quarter, how can I
prepare to complete evaluationsso that I'm not rushing and
(36:02):
using all the time that I coulduse for rest to work?
Dr. Patrice Jackson (36:07):
Oh my gosh, that's so good we need to talk
about that regulation of yournervous system that you did that
self-talk of wait a minute,I've been here before, right?
Because the brain automaticallyshifts in the panning.
The brain goes to fight, flightor freeze, like ah.
But you caught that and yousaid wait, wait a minute, we're
(36:28):
okay, we've been here before andyou can bring, you can bring
your own piece back.
You can bring that anxiety down.
You can talk yourself throughit.
And for those who struggle withtalking yourself through it,
there's something calledco-regulation.
You can connect with somebodyelse who's calm If you're
frazzled.
Call your mom, call yourboyfriend, somebody who is calm
(36:52):
and at peace, talking to them.
You can join them in that spaceof being at peace, right?
So I don't want us to forgetabout the biology of it all.
Our bodies respond to stimuli,they respond to your schedule,
they respond to the demands atwork.
Your body responds.
(37:12):
It's supposed to, it wascreated to respond and our job
is to be aware, self-awareenough.
Pay attention.
Pay attention when your body isscreaming at you.
Pay attention when your body issaying we don't feel.
This doesn't feel safe, thisdoesn't feel safe.
Pay attention, assess thesituation and then respond in a
(37:33):
way that, one, you are safe, but, two, it helps your nervous
system calm down.
So I love that and you'regetting a counselor for yourself
.
People, you heard me say it butyou need a personal care team.
You need a counselor, you needa coach and you need a community
Everybody, everybody.
(37:53):
You need a personal care teamIf you're taking care of
everybody who is taking care ofyou, and I'm with you, Dr
Kostick, it took me 20 years togo to therapy.
I walked students to therapy, Iconvinced them to go to the
counselor, told them all thebenefits of going to counseling.
I helped them understand thatcounseling is not necessarily
(38:14):
meaning they're broken.
But you need maintenance, youneed a process for processing.
I did all of that talking, butI wasn't practicing what I
preach and once I, once I hitburnout, I started going to
counseling for myself and I willnever not have a therapist in
my life, whether I'm goingmonthly or every week or whether
(38:37):
every three months, whateverthe whatever is needed in the
system in that season, thatchanges right.
But I will always have atherapist in my life that I can
connect with and get thatmaintenance, that support, that
processing place that I need sothat I can continue, so that I
can continue to share.
(38:58):
Listen.
I know we've got to let you allgo, but this is so good, dr
Kostick, let's close like thisas we.
Some folks have started theirquarter, like you, some folks
are leaning into fall.
It's almost time.
Think about a new facultymember.
Somebody has just started.
Maybe they're about to walkinto their first semester.
(39:20):
What piece of advice would yougive them about walking in with
their peace and keeping theirpeace.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (39:29):
Lean on your support system.
Whether that's the otherfaculty members which I'm very
thankful for, I have thatsupport system.
Whether that's your communityso maybe your family and friends
, and I have that as wellWhether that's your faith
whatever faith you subscribe toor whatever your belief system
(39:53):
is like, leaning in to that isgoing to be helpful because for
me, going in, I was frazzled, Iwas excited, but I was frazzled
Like there's so much, there's somany new things like what do I
do, where do I go, who do I turnto?
And so knowing that I had thatsupport system and place has
(40:15):
been extremely beneficialbecause I can go to anyone on
the team and have my questionsanswered and not being a burden
to someone.
And so that's the other piece.
Don't don't feel as if you're aburden.
You're not in this position forsuch a time as this, for a
specific reason, for thisparticular season, to be able to
(40:38):
pour into and reach out andgrab someone else's hand to join
them along this journey.
So have that compassion, havethat empathy, have just that
love and passion for the workthat you do, because that's
what's really going to shinethrough.
So know that, you know, leaninto that support.
(40:59):
Utilize whatever you need to sothat you can feel comfortable
in the space that you're in andknow that you are in a space
that will impact the nextgeneration.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Lean in and know
your.
Why Know what you bring is sobeautiful.
Listen, we are so grateful foryou all sharing the space and
time with us.
Dr Kostick, I am so gratefulfor your wisdom and for your
journey, your testimony.
It's freeing somebody.
(41:30):
I know it is, I know it is andyou are right where you're
supposed to be and that's abeautiful place to be.
So thank you for sharing withus today so grateful.
All right, friends, as always.
You know you are powerful, youare significant and you are
loved.
Love always.
Pbj.
Bye everybody.
Hey friends , I am Dr Patrice Buckner
Jackson, but you can call me PBJ.
Welcome to another episode ofDisrupting Burnout, where we are
equipping educators with thestrategy they need to do
purposeful work without burningout.
And, friends, this month inJuly, you know that we are
honoring specifically educators.
(00:28):
We're honoring the folks whoteach, who share, who train.
I have another educator tointroduce you to and I'm so
excited for you to meet thispowerful woman.
So we are having folks who arein the classroom, we're having
folks who are on collegecampuses, we're having folks who
are staff, folks who arefaculty, folks who are in the
(00:50):
administration.
Because we are so diverse andvaried in the field of education
, I wanted to share with youexpertise from different
perspectives of what they havelearned, but also what they are
learning about how to keep yourpeace when you work in education
, about how to do the purposefulwork without overwhelming
(01:12):
burnout.
So I'm so excited.
I am so excited.
I had the honor of meeting thiswoman in a coaching program and
ever since then we've been apart of the same community and
it's just an honor.
It's an honor to be in herpresence, to hear her share.
She just brings peace when shespeaks, and you'll know what I'm
(01:33):
talking about here in a moment,but let me introduce you to Dr
Shakisha Monique Kostik.
She is a doctor of philosophy incounselor education and
supervision.
Dr Kostik is a Washington statelicensed mental health
counselor, a nationallycertified counselor and a child
(01:54):
mental health specialist.
In addition to being a mentalhealth counselor, dr Kostik is a
clinical supervisor, providinglicensure supervision to
master's level counselors.
She provides mental healthconsultation services to
community partners and sharesvaluable resources with
(02:14):
individuals seeking mentalhealth services.
With the specialization incounselor education and
supervision, dr Kostik'sresearch focuses on determining
whether the stigma associatedwith seeking mental health
services played a role inAfrican Americans becoming
mental health counselors.
(02:35):
Ooh, that's good.
Dr Kostik currently holds arole of teaching faculty to
master's level counselingstudents, where the focus is to
support the development ofmental health counselors through
mentorship, faculty andadministrative engagement.
Dr Shakisha Kostik welcome toDisrupting Burnout.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (02:58):
Thank you.
Thank you so much for having me.
It is such an honor.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (03:02):
It's such an honor to have you here and I
look forward to what you willshare.
So let's get into it by youtelling the people Now.
I read your phenomenal bio andI know this is just a snippet.
It really is, but tell thepeople who you are Ooh, all
right.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (03:19):
First and foremost, thinking about that,
I'm a child of God and I thinkthat I know that's what outlines
who I am, beyond every accoladeor any mention of what I do
professionally.
And after that I'm Dr ShakishaKostik, and I say that proudly
(03:40):
because I, as you know, juststarting to get into the feeling
of this is who I am Like.
It's beyond the profession,it's the work that came up until
this point that has allowed meto proudly say, like you've
earned this, this is who you are.
And I'm just kind of in thisplace where I'm continuing to
(04:01):
learn who I am and to figure outwho I am.
And but the foundation, thefoundation is just kind of being
in this place that God has hasordained me to be.
Now, like, wherever my foot is,my, whatever my steps are, it's
peace and that's who I am.
And I've been in this space ofjust wanting to be peace for
(04:23):
anyone that I come in contactwith, having the conversation,
even with family, about kind ofjust being this light.
And so it's more than just likethese things that I can list
off.
It's beyond just what's in thebio, it's just truly feeling
that there's this awarenessthat's there and that awareness
(04:44):
is that I'm peace everywhere Iwalk is peaceful and I wear that
and I carry that proudly.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (04:52):
Oh, my goodness, you are peace.
You are the way that you speak,the sound of your voice, how
you show up in the space.
You bring you seed, you bringforth peace.
That is exactly who you are,and it's so powerful to hear a
woman who is as accomplished asyou are recognized.
(05:13):
Yes, grateful for all of that,yes, I wear it well and at the
core of who I am, I am peace andI am light, and we know that
you were peace and light beforethe doctorate.
You were peace and light beforethe faculty appointment.
You were peace and light allthe years of your life.
That is who he created you tobe, and so many of us become
(05:38):
overwhelmed because we don'tknow who we are.
We've been successful.
Success does not equate purpose.
There are two different things.
You can be successful withoutknowing who you are, but that
success will never have peaceuntil you identify the identity,
the true, the core brillianceof who you are.
(05:59):
Dr Kostick, talk to us a littlebit about your path, because I
know that your facultyappointment is relatively new in
your life.
So how did you get to where youare right now?
Dr. Shakesha Costict (06:11):
Yeah, and I want to kind of go back for a
minute about what you said aboutthis.
Just kind of, as of last year,I wasn't sure what my identity
was.
So I was still in my doctorateprogram, but I was so unsure and
I remember telling my mom I waslike I have all of these things
that I've done, all of thiswork, all this clinical practice
(06:33):
that I have, yet I still don'tfeel like I know who I am and I
felt on some level like defeated, because I'm like how in the
world would I get to this spaceand not really know who I am?
Like I can't articulate that,and so, like, going back a ways
I have I always share this likeI've never, ever, ever wanted to
(06:56):
teach anything, anything Likeever, but I've always found
myself in positions ofleadership or of development or
of training, and it honestlywasn't until like this last year
, maybe year and a half, almosttwo years that I started to fall
into this teaching piece and Istarted to say you know what,
(07:17):
maybe there's a little bit ofsomething that's here I like to
say like initially, when I wentto school as an undergrad, I
wanted to be a marine biologistand I ended up a counselor, and
so, you know, life happens,things change.
But it was really kind of thispiece of like with my story and
(07:39):
knowing that the field that I'min is mental health counseling
and now I'm a counselor,educator, thinking back on even
my childhood, talking about yourfeelings or talking about, you
know, secrets that we hold sotight within our family unit and
we don't take the time toexpress.
It wasn't something thathappened.
(08:00):
It wasn't something that, like,I had never.
If I truly think back up untilundergrad, I don't think I've
ever really heard of anybody sayanything about counseling.
And now that I think about it,it's so foreign to me, like how
in the world did we go throughlife not talking about this?
But that was the time.
That was kind of the space thatas a community, as an
(08:22):
African-American community, thatwe were in, and if you have had
generations of people nothaving these conversations, then
why would I know about it?
And so it really wasn't, untilI was in my senior year of high
school and I took a psychologyclass and again I went to
undergrad to be a marinebiologist, but that didn't pan
(08:43):
out and there was a counselingcourse and I was like you know
what, let's try it out.
And that's what led me on thispath of being a counselor.
And I practiced clinically for10 years and so, again, if we
kind of move through that spaceof being a counselor and knowing
that kind of going back for mydoctor and what that looked like
(09:05):
, and even that was someonespeaking into me, like there was
someone when I was a teenagerthat said you can go and get
your PhD before you're 40 yearsold, and I was like what even is
that?
Like I knew nothing.
My parents just said you'regonna go to college and I'm like
, okay, I guess I'll go formarine biology.
Didn't know how anything wouldget paid for, you know.
(09:27):
So there's debt and things likethat that have to be, and
that's a whole nother thing.
Because, again, when you have asystem that things aren't
talked about and things areunable to be changed, we
continue into these differentpatterns.
And so you know, I'm just kindof going through life and I went
(09:47):
for my, got my bachelor's,great, All right, maybe I can go
back to school, well, and atthat time it was like you can't
really make a whole lot of moneyin the counseling pool without
having a master's, I mean, still, that's a whole nother topic of
conversation.
But it was just kind of one ofthose things All right, well,
let's go get your master's.
And so I did that.
(10:07):
And then I was like, well, whatabout it?
So you know, this was spokenover my life when I was a
teenager and now I'm in my late20s, early 30s like why won't I,
why can't I?
Like, and again, this piece ofno one has done it before me.
And so, being like this firsttime college graduate and then
(10:30):
the first one to get a master's,and looking at this space that
I'm in now, and knowing that Igoing through the PhD program,
at first it was easy and then itgot really hard.
And then I started to findmyself in a space where, when I
was in first grade, my teachertold my mom and my aunt that,
(10:54):
paraphrasing, I'm gonna struggle, I'm not going to be able to
amount, so a whole lot ofanything again, which is another
layer of a story that many ofour children are told.
And knowing that, even when Iwas in my PhD program, what came
up for me?
Thinking back to grade school,I had a reading comprehension
(11:15):
problem.
So, as I was going through thisresearch and trying to really
kind of dive deeply into theresearch and truly understand it
.
The fear that came up was Idon't understand any of this.
Why am I even here?
Do I even belong, like all ofthis self doubt?
Thankfully, I have a plan, mamaand daddy.
(11:35):
And there were moments that weall fasted together and we said
you're gonna make it throughthis quarter and I was like all
right, god, I don't know howthis one work, but we're gonna
do it.
And throughout that entire time,where the teaching piece comes
into play is because for a while, I was struggling, trying to
figure out, like, what do I evenresearch?
(11:56):
And one thing I knew I didn'tknow there was research behind
it, but what I knew is thatwithin the African-American
community, there's stigma there,and what the professors were
saying at the time was okay, nowback it up, like I already know
this, how do I back it up?
But again, no one prepared meto go on this journey.
So I wasn't sure, like, what toexpect.
(12:18):
And so, once I really startedto dive into and do the research
and have the interviews, Ilearned so much and I again,
child of God, person of faith,that's where my foundation is.
I also became aware of thispiece, that's this underlying
piece of especially within somein the African-American
(12:39):
community, with the church andwith counseling and with the
stigma and with we'll take itall to God.
Yes, I'm gonna take it all toGod.
But he also put me in thisspace to be able to kind of hold
a space for those who sometimesfeel like they can't pray about
it, or they can pray about itbut I also.
It's almost that analogy of wehave a doctor for a reason we
(13:01):
can still pray to God to heal us, but we still have a doctor
that we still have to go and geta checkup from, and so, kind of
putting all of that together,what I found was, as I worked
through my doctorate program andI began to even work with
master's level students, I said,ooh, there's something here and
ooh, there's not really anyblack people, especially in my
(13:25):
area.
So I live in the PacificNorthwest, so we're like all the
way on the other side of thestate and the city that I live
in is much less diverse than youknow.
I'm about four hours fromSeattle, so much less diverse
than even that side of the stateand so, knowing that, okay,
there's nobody else that reallylooks like me that I've been
(13:45):
able to come in contact with.
So how do I expect to diversifythis counseling profession if
there's nobody else that lookslike me?
And so part of the teachingpiece came up for me because I
wanted to make surerepresentation was there.
And although right before, liketwo months before I finished
(14:08):
school I didn't know I wasalmost finished I wanted to give
all the way up.
I said I can't do this, I'm sodone.
It had been a number of years.
And my boyfriend, he was likeyou can give up?
And I said no, I can't.
Like why would you say that?
And he said, no, you can't.
If you want to give up, you can.
And I was like you know what?
(14:29):
Thanks, because that's what Ineeded to hear, because no, I
can't, I'm too far along thisjourney.
And I know he said that as away to like give me a kick in
the butt like girl, come on.
But even that piece, within twomonths I was finished.
And then I was like wow, wow,it's done.
And then kind of hearing peoplejust and it wasn't again about
(14:52):
like the congratulations, butpart of it was because I don't
see this.
And so the kids around me.
They don't see it.
And so now I'm in a place whereI can go into the classroom and
I can authentically be who I am.
And that's one thing you toldme.
I don't think you remember theend of last year and you made a
statement about like, and I hadit in my mind this morning and
(15:15):
of course, I'm gonna forget itright now.
But it's really about not losingwho I am once I'm in this space
of education and highereducation and I have to say I am
newer to this teaching thefaculty piece but it was so
refreshing to be in a class andto see students that look like
(15:36):
me and to hear one of thestudents with my natural hair
out, to hear one of the studentssay, wow, and I knew exactly
what was.
The student wasn't on mute, andso everyone else kind of heard
it as well, but I don't thinkeveryone else understood what it
meant.
And so for me in that moment Iwas like, okay, I'm exactly,
even though I fought this for somany years and but I fought it
(15:58):
until I knew that there was auntil God released say, okay,
it's time.
And now that I'm in the placethat I'm in, I can see the
impact, and that's really whatI'm all about when it comes to
this teaching and the mentorshippiece is impact Like what
impact can I have on someoneelse to be able to kind of help
them along their journey?
Dr. Patrice Jackson (16:21):
Oh my goodness.
Oh my goodness.
I love how in your story, howyou've been led the whole time,
even when you felt like youdidn't know where you were going
, even when you felt like youdidn't belong.
What does this look like?
Is this a thing You've been ledall along, from taking the
(16:42):
psychology class in high schoolto taking the counseling class
in college, the entire thing tothe person saying you can get a
doctorate before you're 40,you've been led.
You've been led, and that'swhat I want people to know.
Your purpose is not lost.
It's not lost, it's right there.
Purpose doesn't show up afteryou get the PhD.
(17:04):
Purpose doesn't show up afteryou get the faculty appointment.
Purpose has been throughoutyour life and it had to be you.
It had to be you.
When you walk into those spacesand you look around and you
don't see anybody who looks likeyou, the human side says I
don't belong here becausethere's nobody else here like me
.
But the truth is, you're theone friend, you're the one,
(17:29):
you're the one to show up inthat space.
You are the one to be present,you are the one to be the face
so that others might see, sothat that student who had that
involuntary, automatic wow right, so that student could see
you're the one, you're the onethat's called to that specific
(17:49):
space.
So I just appreciate yourjourney.
I appreciate your journey somuch and in standing in the
space, like all the things worktogether.
So your Christian churchbackground, along with your
education, your experience andyour skills, you can stand in
(18:11):
that space.
You can stand in that space andhold hands with the person in
the church and say, hey, yes,jesus is a healer and sometimes
he heals through thesecounselors.
Sometimes he heals through youmaking certain decisions for
your life.
Sometimes he heals through youchanging behavior.
(18:31):
So, yes, I'm with you, you'reright, he is a healer, he's
always been a healer.
He is the healer and he mightwant to use this friend right
over here.
So there are so many therapists, so many counselors in the
whole wide world, but there's aspecific call upon your life.
(18:53):
Even your research is not acoincidence.
The research that you do isbased on your experience.
But watch this you had to havethat experience so that you
could give voice to thisresearch.
Even that experience was a partof purpose.
You had to experience that sothat you can speak to it in a
(19:15):
way.
You're not just out herereading articles and writing
about them, but you know whatyou know.
You're not just out hereteaching your students from the
textbook, because you can add.
You can add Experience to thatten years of experience in
counseling, but also yourpersonal experience.
You bring a perspective thatnobody else can bring.
(19:36):
You are in the middle of yourbrilliance.
Listen, you are right whereyou're supposed to be.
You are right where you aresupposed to be.
So, and dr Kostak and I are incommunity, so we talk all the
time, y'all, so you mightexperience some of that.
But talk to me because you.
(19:57):
You said I never wanted to be ateacher, right?
But I know that there have beenglimpses of glimpses of
teaching throughout your wholeJourney.
So where were the spaces inyour life where teaching would
pop up?
But you didn't see it as athing right?
Dr. Shakesha Costict (20:13):
Um, I think, first and foremost
actually in the church.
So a lot of times, like forthose of us, that's where our
foundation is, that's where alot of that leadership starts.
And so I have been praisedancing for whoo since I, I
think, was 11 years old and soat different times in spaces I
was actually over or teachingand leading the dance ministry,
(20:38):
and I work with our children nowin our church, and so Even that
, now I like to ask them what doyou want to do on youth Sunday?
And they'll tell me and I lookat that as Leadership
development at an early age,helping them to identify their
voices, because I've always beena very quiet, like I, if I
don't have to speak out, I won't.
(21:00):
Even now, I mean as a, as ateacher, yeah, I gotta speak out
, but in other spaces, if Idon't have to, then I won't.
And so, but a lot of it startedlike within the church and just
kind of Continue.
That's been a consistent orconstant piece throughout my
entire life that I can remember,I think.
Other spaces, like I had jobswhere I've worked with children
(21:21):
and I've worked in like youthcenter, hey, friend, listen, I
have an Exciting news for you.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (21:29):
So if you've been following, you know
I've been writing this book andI am so excited about getting it
into your hands.
And guess what?
Today I'm offering you thefirst Sample of my new book,
this weapon burnout.
Friend, listen, we have morework to do.
Okay, it's still going toprofessional editing, we still
(21:50):
need to design the book, but Ican't wait to all that's done
for you to start digging in.
So there's a sample copy that Iread myself For you that's
available to you today.
All you have to do is go towwwpatricebuttnerjaxsoncom slash
book.
(22:11):
Again, patricebuttnerjaxsoncomslash book.
Grab your sample, listen to thesample chapter and listen.
Let me know what you think.
I cannot wait for you to hearthis book.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (22:26):
Friend, go grab it today and then someone
comes to me and say, oh, do youhave your curriculum developed?
I said what I?
I didn't, I don't want to, Idon't want to teach like, I just
want to watch the kids play,make sure they're not hurting
themselves, being nice to eachother, things of that nature,
and Just really this piece ofokay.
Now I got to make a curriculumand I'm like, okay, here comes
(22:50):
this teaching thing.
Again and again it's just beenroles like that that have come
up over the years, and then evenat one of working for a company
when I was able to work withincoming freshmen to help them
get acclimated to high school,and Again that was in a
leadership position.
Because I was over that program, I'm like, all right, here we
(23:10):
go again.
But it wasn't until I wasclinically working as a
counselor and I had spent fiveyears working just as a
counselor, working with childrenand families.
And then I had the opportunityto have an intern and and I said
, wow, like this is the teachingpiece.
I still wasn't in a space whereI was like ready to go full
(23:31):
force with it, but I looked atit as I'm training someone else
and so I think for me the theidea, or you, just even changing
the language from teacher totrainer helped me kind of just
feel comfortable in that space.
And so when I had the, theintern, and just being able to
(23:52):
watch someone develop and to beable to support them and Work
with them even in thosedifficult moments, and then to
be able to see them graduate,like whoa, I had a hand in that
and To get to that space andthen, shortly after that,
actually became a clinicalsupervisor in the same Agency
(24:12):
and I supervised a team up uptowards seven or eight
counselors, some brand new, somewell, actually all of them were
pretty much brand new to thecounseling field as a
professional.
And again it was this piece ofokay, this is I love this like I
had gotten to a point I mean,counseling can burn you out just
like any career path can, and Ihad gotten to a point where I
(24:34):
was burned out on just all-dayclinical practice, meeting with
clients back to back.
But when I got into that spaceof supervisor one I was, I
worked full-time when I wasthrough my doctor program and so
I just ended up switching fromthe full-time Counseling work to
the supervisor piece and thatdid give me a little bit more
(24:55):
Breathing room to do my schoolwork as well.
But it was in that role that Iwas like, okay, this is where my
heart is, like I love thispiece of just being able to
watch someone grow and to watchsomeone blossom, to watch
someone come into their own andreally kind of be in the space
where they get to determine,like, who am I as a professional
(25:19):
?
And so as I went through thatrole for five years and it was
at the end of mine, once Ifinished school, I remember
looking at my supervisor at thetime and I said I'm not gonna be
here by the end of the year,and that was maybe in March or
April.
That was before I finishedschool.
I knew I was finishing, butthat was before I finished
(25:41):
school.
And I just remember saying thatto everyone, like I'm not gonna
be here by the end of the year.
And then it came time and itwas one of those situations
where I was so content, I was solike I knew that job like the
back of my hand and it was like,okay, but there's more, like if
I stay here, I'm doing adisservice to myself, I'm doing
a disservice to the person who'scoming behind me and to whoever
(26:05):
I meant to impact in the future.
And so it's difficult as it wasand I left.
It's great to be in a spacewhere you can leave on such a
high that if anything everhappened, I don't think they
would hesitate to have me back.
But I think the most importantpiece of all of that is when I
left as a supervisor.
(26:27):
My goal was to always, alwayswork with my staff so that one
day they can take my position,and so when I left, it was one
of my counselors that I hadworked with for like three years
at that point who actuallystepped into that role of
supervisor, and she and I stilltext to this day.
I think I texted her last weekhey, how are things going?
(26:50):
And her message to me was thankyou so much for everything that
you taught me, because I'm ableto utilize that now in the work
that I'm doing.
And so even when I think aboutlike the role of teaching and
leadership and what that lookslike, I always say I want you to
be able to step into myposition, because that means I'm
(27:11):
going somewhere else and thenyou're moving into the next.
And even when I was a counselor,and even as a supervisor, I
would work with clients and Isay I want you to work me out of
a job.
I want you to get to a placewhere you can handle and you can
maintain, and you don't evenneed to come in to see me maybe
every now and then a checkup,but work me out of a job so that
you can have the skills thatare needed for you to kind of
(27:32):
truly succeed in life.
And that's I look at that from aleadership point as well and so
as kind of a faculty teachernow and really just working with
these students.
It's this piece of I would.
I want to pour in as much as Ican to those who are going to be
(27:53):
the next generation ofcounselors, whether they're
counselors of color or not.
I want you to be in a space towhere you truly can say I've
received the best education thatI can from this university
because of this particulareducator who felt the need to
pour deeply into me.
And it's amazing and although,like I recently started, it's
(28:15):
been almost a year now just thispiece of just listening to the
students give their feedback andI'm like whoa, like I don't
seem, like I'm brand new, like Ifeel like it seems as if I know
what I'm doing and you know howsometimes we start something.
That's like man, I don't, Idon't think I know what I'm
doing, but I have learned thatyou do know, you do know.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (28:40):
You do know the setting changed, but the
purpose never changed.
You've been preparing for thisall your life, since 11 years
old, dancing and starting tolead the dance.
So you do know.
You do know what you're doingand I appreciate the way you
honor the power of release.
We have a hard time letting go.
(29:00):
It's possible that somethingwas perfect for you in one
season that no longer fits inthe current season and so many
of us end up overwhelmed andburnt out because we've
overstayed our welcome.
We're out of place, somebodyelse is supposed to be in your
shoes and you're supposed to besomeplace else, but we have such
(29:24):
a hard time of letting go ofsomething that seems to be
working.
It doesn't make sense that youwill release something that's
working out pretty well.
Why would you let it go?
But purpose evolves and itcalls you.
It calls you to move into thenext thing.
I love your philosophy of workme out of a job.
(29:46):
I love your philosophy becausenot only does that create
loyalty between you and yourteam.
So leaders, supervisors,department chairs, I hope you're
listening.
If you give your peopleeverything just give them
everything that you know, whatwill happen is not only will
they be dedicated to theinstitution, but they will be
(30:08):
loyal to you because you'vegiven so much, you've invested
so much.
And when it is time for you totransition, it's a shame that so
many leaders transition andthere's nobody ready to step up.
So we have to do a nationalsearch to find somebody else,
because we don't have anybodyinternally that we have mentored
(30:30):
, that we have trained, that wehave coached to be ready to step
into the next.
I'm so grateful for leaders thatI've experienced in my life
that taught me enough that whenit was time for them to go, it
was a no-brainer, that it wastime for me to step in.
It's such a gift.
It's such a gift not just toyour people but to yourself,
(30:51):
because you know when you'vetrained them well, you can let
go.
You can let go because you knowthey're ready.
So the power of release is soimportant, because we end up
staying too long, we end upholding on too long when it's
time to release that expressionof purpose, that passion, that
(31:12):
expression of purpose and walkinto another expression of
purpose.
So, dr Kosting, and we won'thold the people too much longer,
but for the sake of our facultymembers who are listening over
this last year of you being inthis position and having this
experience.
What is one of the lessonsyou've learned through your
(31:35):
experience so far as a facultymember?
Dr. Shakesha Costic (31:37):
Preparation , I think for me just I'm a
preparer in so many ways anyway,and so I often say like if I
don't know what I'm talkingabout when I go in front of the
students, then how do I expectthem to truly understand?
And so for me it takes time tojust prepare, like what's in
(31:59):
front of me, what does thesyllabus look like?
How am I going to explain theinformation?
How can I make it so that I'mspeaking in a way that's easily
understood?
And then, like, along with thatis I'm learning kind of
different ways of self-care nowbecause I'm in a different role,
and so, with that trying to fitin, and I work remotely, so I
(32:24):
teach remotely, so I'm home.
Before I was in an office when Ipracticed clinically.
Now I'm home full-time andtrying to figure out boundaries.
Like my quarter just startedand I was teaching and meeting
with some students yesterday andwe talked about time management
and boundaries and what doesthat look like?
(32:45):
And then for a second I waslike you know, sometimes I still
struggle with this because I'mstill trying to, I still feel
new, but then I also feel as ifI'm starting to kind of really
settle into the space.
And so sometimes, when I stillfeel new, I'm still trying to
figure it out and put all thepuzzle pieces together, and I
(33:08):
have learned that for me itreally does take time, or at
least I think it takes time.
Although you know the chair andother people and they might say
, okay, here, do this, here dothat, I'm just like whoa, whoa,
whoa, whoa, hold on, that's nothow I operate.
So, trying to balance it all,like knowing that I have a time
(33:29):
limit, that's different now, butI also have to make sure I'm
taking care of myself.
And what does that look like?
And so I have often foundmyself so overwhelmed that I
just burst into tears and thenI'm calling my mama, and then
I'm listening to my music, andthen I'm doing whatever I need
to do to try to settle myself.
And I almost found myself inthat space within the last
(33:50):
couple of weeks and I was proudof myself because I didn't go
there Like normally.
I didn't go there and I'm like,oh my gosh, like how do I, what
do I do, and all this.
But I didn't.
I like I think I took a momentand I thought about what was
happening, like, okay, I've beenhere before.
What do I need to do to makesure I don't become so
(34:12):
overwhelmed again that I can'tmanage.
And in that time I think Ieither wrote down a list or I
thought about my list of whatare these things that I need to
do to finish up this quarter andprepare for next quarter, what
can I do in this allotted timethat's going to help me manage
so that I don't feel overwhelmed?
And when I did that, I was like, oh okay, this feels good.
(34:36):
I think.
Another piece too being acounselor, I have a counselor
now, so that has helped me a tonand I would often share with
people like, oh, you need to goto counseling, you need to do
this.
And I was never doing it, likeI also had that stigma, even
though I wrote about the stigma.
I also had the stigma, I alsohad the fear, I also had the
(34:58):
hesitation.
But I've noticed that that hasjust allowed me to free so many
things and just to have be in aspace where I can truly, just
truly be open to receivewhatever's coming my way and
notice the impact of the thingsthat's happening.
And so what's happened andhelped during this phase of
(35:18):
teaching now is that I've justfound the moments of peace, like
what do I need to do to makesure I have peace in this moment
?
What again that preparation?
What do I need to prepare forin advance, so that I've been
known for myself as just aserial procrastinator, so I
(35:39):
can't operate like that anymore.
I'm learning.
It won't help me and it won'thelp the students.
So now, how do I get out ofthat space of procrastination so
that I can make sure I'mprepared for the next class
that's coming up and I'mprepared for the next one that's
happening?
And when it's towards the endof the quarter, how can I
prepare to complete evaluationsso that I'm not rushing and
(36:02):
using all the time that I coulduse for rest to work?
Dr. Patrice Jackson (36:07):
Oh my gosh, that's so good we need to talk
about that regulation of yournervous system that you did that
self-talk of wait a minute,I've been here before, right?
Because the brain automaticallyshifts in the panning.
The brain goes to fight, flightor freeze, like ah.
But you caught that and yousaid wait, wait a minute, we're
(36:28):
okay, we've been here before andyou can bring, you can bring
your own piece back.
You can bring that anxiety down.
You can talk yourself throughit.
And for those who struggle withtalking yourself through it,
there's something calledco-regulation.
You can connect with somebodyelse who's calm If you're
frazzled.
Call your mom, call yourboyfriend, somebody who is calm
(36:52):
and at peace, talking to them.
You can join them in that spaceof being at peace, right?
So I don't want us to forgetabout the biology of it all.
Our bodies respond to stimuli,they respond to your schedule,
they respond to the demands atwork.
Your body responds.
(37:12):
It's supposed to, it wascreated to respond and our job
is to be aware, self-awareenough.
Pay attention.
Pay attention when your body isscreaming at you.
Pay attention when your body issaying we don't feel.
This doesn't feel safe, thisdoesn't feel safe.
Pay attention, assess thesituation and then respond in a
(37:33):
way that, one, you are safe, but, two, it helps your nervous
system calm down.
So I love that and you'regetting a counselor for yourself
.
People, you heard me say it butyou need a personal care team.
You need a counselor, you needa coach and you need a community
Everybody, everybody.
(37:53):
You need a personal care teamIf you're taking care of
everybody who is taking care ofyou, and I'm with you, Dr
Kostick, it took me 20 years togo to therapy.
I walked students to therapy, Iconvinced them to go to the
counselor, told them all thebenefits of going to counseling.
I helped them understand thatcounseling is not necessarily
(38:14):
meaning they're broken.
But you need maintenance, youneed a process for processing.
I did all of that talking, butI wasn't practicing what I
preach and once I, once I hitburnout, I started going to
counseling for myself and I willnever not have a therapist in
my life, whether I'm goingmonthly or every week or whether
(38:37):
every three months, whateverthe whatever is needed in the
system in that season, thatchanges right.
But I will always have atherapist in my life that I can
connect with and get thatmaintenance, that support, that
processing place that I need sothat I can continue, so that I
can continue to share.
(38:58):
Listen.
I know we've got to let you allgo, but this is so good, dr
Kostick, let's close like thisas we.
Some folks have started theirquarter, like you, some folks
are leaning into fall.
It's almost time.
Think about a new facultymember.
Somebody has just started.
Maybe they're about to walkinto their first semester.
(39:20):
What piece of advice would yougive them about walking in with
their peace and keeping theirpeace.
Dr. Shakesha Costict (39:29):
Lean on your support system.
Whether that's the otherfaculty members which I'm very
thankful for, I have thatsupport system.
Whether that's your communityso maybe your family and friends
, and I have that as wellWhether that's your faith
whatever faith you subscribe toor whatever your belief system
(39:53):
is like, leaning in to that isgoing to be helpful because for
me, going in, I was frazzled, Iwas excited, but I was frazzled
Like there's so much, there's somany new things like what do I
do, where do I go, who do I turnto?
And so knowing that I had thatsupport system and place has
(40:15):
been extremely beneficialbecause I can go to anyone on
the team and have my questionsanswered and not being a burden
to someone.
And so that's the other piece.
Don't don't feel as if you're aburden.
You're not in this position forsuch a time as this, for a
specific reason, for thisparticular season, to be able to
(40:38):
pour into and reach out andgrab someone else's hand to join
them along this journey.
So have that compassion, havethat empathy, have just that
love and passion for the workthat you do, because that's
what's really going to shinethrough.
So know that, you know, leaninto that support.
(40:59):
Utilize whatever you need to sothat you can feel comfortable
in the space that you're in andknow that you are in a space
that will impact the nextgeneration.
Dr. Patrice Jackson (41:10):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely Lean in and know
your.
Why Know what you bring is sobeautiful.
Listen, we are so grateful foryou all sharing the space and
time with us.
Dr Kostick, I am so gratefulfor your wisdom and for your
journey, your testimony.
It's freeing somebody.
(41:30):
I know it is, I know it is andyou are right where you're
supposed to be and that's abeautiful place to be.
So thank you for sharing withus today so grateful.
All right, friends, as always.
You know you are powerful, youare significant and you are
loved.
Love always.
Pbj.
Bye everybody.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.