Resilience, Reckoning & Renewal with Patrick

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In this raw and deeply moving episode, Siobhan sits down with Patrick—a salty, soulful, and beautifully honest storyteller—to explore a life marked by trauma, survival, and healing. Patrick opens up about growing up in an abusive home, enduring sexual assault as a child, and carrying the weight of unspoken pain through a long military career.

Through the lens of therapy, writing, and self-reflection, Patrick shares how he’s finally confronting the darkness, reconnecting with his inner child, and learning—at 73 years old—that he is worthy of love, peace, and joy.

We talk about the power of inner child work, the ripple effects of PTSD, breaking generational cycles, and what it means to finally feel safe in your own skin. With the support of his fiercely loving wife, Christine, and a renewed connection to spirit, Patrick is rewriting his narrative—not just for himself, but for anyone still carrying old wounds.

This is more than a conversation—this is proof that it’s never too late to heal.

📚 Patrick’s debut memoir is in the works and already changing lives.
 🎧 Trigger warning: This episode contains discussions of abuse, PTSD, and suicide.

Episode Transcript

Siobhan (00:08):
Well, sit, get comfortable, make sure your mic
is all

Patrick Sauro (00:11):
set. What is your benefit by doing this? I get

Siobhan (00:15):
to help other people. I get
to tell my story in a way thatdoesn't make me feel super
uncomfortable, because I let itcome out when it comes out,
yeah, forcing it out, right? I'mnot great at talking about
myself. No, I know that. Um, butI my story is a story
of resilience, too. I think kindof the pod. Sometimes people ask

(00:39):
me, like, what it's about, and Isay long story, long form,
conversations, people's stories,but I think really the theme I'm
looking for is resilience. LikeI'm looking to know that you can
go through the hard things andyou can come back from

Patrick Sauro (00:53):
it. Yeah, well, I think I'm

Siobhan (00:59):
trying to help other people understand that they, too
can go through the hard stuffand come back from it like
you're not the worst thing youever did or the worst thing that
ever happened to you. You know,I've, unfortunately, have had a
lot of big life experiences,right? And, you know, my mom one
time was like, I don't know howyou've done it. She's like,

(01:21):
you've just the amount of stuffyou've had to go through, and
you are still happy, and you'restill, you know, trying to put
good out in the world, andfinding my joy. And, you know, I
do have, still a sense ofchildhood wonder

Patrick Sauro (01:34):
that I carry, oh yeah.

Siobhan (01:37):
Like, I never lost. I have never let anything take
that from me, right? And I thinkthat that's kind of a special
thing. I think a lot of peopleget super jaded and angry, and
then they take it out

Patrick Sauro (01:49):
on man. It's amazing how that gets intense.
That gets for me, taking it outon other people. And then I with
this new therapist, I realizedit's not about them. Doesn't
have a fucking thing to do withmy health, my well being, what
it has to do with forgettingthat, dealing with my pain, what

(02:13):
you know now and when as alittle boy, yep, and sometimes
she'll say, maybe we ought to goin the woods and sit for a
little bit. Oh,

Siobhan (02:29):
that's interesting. So she's teaching you how to take
yourself out of the moment.

Patrick Sauro (02:35):
Actually, she's teaching me to go back to those
memories and take that littleboy's hand, say, come on. This
isn't this isn't really you. WeCome on, put your hand in mine,
and we'll walk out of this shit.
So

Siobhan (02:57):
there's a lot of child, inner child work that you're
doing.

Patrick Sauro (03:01):
Yeah, yeah, I wrote in the story, whereas in
sixth grade I didn't know who Iwas or what I was doing. My
therapist said you were numb.
You were just numb. You've beenshut down, abused. So yeah, that
was a good observation.

Siobhan (03:25):
Yeah, sometimes I think about going back into therapy
for that, for that, for thechildhood work. When I was
younger, I used to not thinkthat the childhood stuff meant
anything. Like I thought it waskind of some bullshit. And,
like, I had a friend who was intherapy since we were, like,
young kids because of stuff thathad happened in her family. And
I always thought, yeah, butshe's still like, it's not

(03:46):
helping, or any, you know, like,she's still super depressed,
she's still super anxious,she's, you know, really just
unhappy. And I was like, I havebeen through, you know, some
shit, and I'm okay. I wasn't,you know that now, but I was
just like, yeah, you just kindof put it, you stuff it inside,
and you don't think about it

Patrick Sauro (04:06):
anymore. Yeah, yeah, I did. I was real good at
that. And then I have twotherapy, two therapists. One is
my guiding light. I contact oncea month, and we talk about this
and that, and the other oneright now is trained

(04:28):
professional with PTSD, yes, andI told her, I don't have
anywhere else to go. I'm notrunning anymore. I don't want
this shit to affect me, affectfriendships, right, you know? So

(04:49):
I sent uncle Jr a copy. Lovesit. Sent to a copy of each one
of my brothers thinking, Youknow what? I don't need their
fucking. Approval. You don'tright. This story has nothing to
do with them, and yet, they bothcalled me and said, Oh, leave my
name out. All right. No problem,right? No problem. They still

(05:17):
talk and act well like thefamily I left, family I was get
leaving. So when I thoughttalked with Christine about
going up to Seattle and meetingwith them, no fucking way, oh,
because nothing's changed inthem. Out of all these people,

(05:41):
you're the only one that'sgrowing.

Siobhan (05:44):
You know, that's what she said, Yeah, and I

Patrick Sauro (05:49):
agree. And

Siobhan (05:54):
to kind of jump into the podcast part, like, let's
catch let's introduce you to thefuture. Because, well, I'm gonna
leave all of that in. I thinkthat that's moving, and it's
kind of how we formed. Ourfriendship is having
conversations. Mean, I met youat one of the bars that I work
with, and we liked each otherright away. And you are a salty
old man. Yeah,

Patrick Sauro (06:16):
don't leave out son of a bitch. This is

Siobhan (06:18):
true so, but so in the pond with me today is my friend
Patrick, who just wrote hisfirst book. Thank you, and it's
amazing. It's very open and rawand honest, and I'm excited to
see what happens with it. Imean, it's just being shopped

(06:39):
now, as they say. So that'sexciting for you. So tell us a
little bit about like yourorigin story. We jumped kind of
right into some of the heavystuff. But okay, tell me where
you're from. Patrick,

Patrick Sauro (06:52):
I was born and raised in a little town in Upper
Michigan called Saul SaintMarie. Originally settled by the
French fur traders, and theyalso called the The Bev one
bivouac. On the other side ofthe town of the river is Saul

(07:16):
Saint Marie Ontario. Ah, sothat's so it's called, yeah,
the end, grown up in an Italianfamily, an Italian neighborhood,
to me, still to this day, thesun, sun shines the brightest.

(07:39):
It still does. There. Was allthe these little old ladies and
their black laced dresses. Ifthey were alone, they're
standing in the screen door. Sowhoever came in the
neighborhood, they didn't know,right? They were calling

(07:59):
everybody else.

Siobhan (08:01):
They were like, the neighborhood watch, yeah,

Patrick Sauro (08:03):
the old and they would send out a son or
something to confront thisperson, and he probably doesn't
know where he's at. He's walkingdown that street, right? But to
them,

Siobhan (08:15):
outsiders are not allowed, yeah, they're not
welcome,

Patrick Sauro (08:18):
right? And it was very, comforting for me as a
child, because everywhere I wentin that neighborhood, they knew
me, you know, through my fatherand those things, and it was
just so great a place to grow upfor me,

Siobhan (08:42):
good. That's nice to hear. And what, what years was
this?

Patrick Sauro (08:48):
This was from I was born in 51 let's see, I
think, to about sixth, seventhgrade, and we moved one block
away.

Siobhan (09:04):
Did the neighborhood change a lot, though, in that
one block was it as kind ofoutsiders? Beware.

Patrick Sauro (09:11):
It was more like it was a different neighborhood
completely. You know, there wereNorwegian, Swedish and

Siobhan (09:21):
still very white.

Patrick Sauro (09:23):
Oh, yeah, right at the time I was growing up,
the sheriff patrol waspatrolling three, three mile
city limits, and they wouldn'tallow black people to come in.
They turned around and sentbacks out.

Siobhan (09:41):
That's terrible.

Patrick Sauro (09:44):
Yeah, no, so there was that, but I never
noticed it with my family, youknow, they watch basketball. Oh,
yeah. Okay, hockey was thebiggest thing, but baseball,

(10:04):
basketball, football, it didn'tmatter to them if somebody was
black. You know, there was neverany tough, demeaning type like
that. Well, that's good, yeah,

Siobhan (10:15):
they just weren't allowed in the neighborhood.

Patrick Sauro (10:19):
Well, again, it depended on, well, the police,
the sheriff's department, getthe back, kept the black people
out of town, period, so that Inever saw any while I was
growing up. Wow. And I think thefirst time I was sailing on

(10:44):
orcas and Great Lakes, and theypicked up a black guy for
working doing the same thing Iwas doing, and two guys from up
north in Duluth or something,said, I'm not sailing with that

(11:05):
fucker on this boat. Oh, wow.
And to this day, I remember thatblack kid standing on a dock
crying, I ain't no nigger, mate.
I ain't no nigger, but we didn'tsail with them. So that gave me

(11:25):
a lot of that gave me amore of a kinder sense of
people, you know, nothing was itdid not a fucking thing wrong,
right, and these assholes areaccusing them, and we're not
going to sail if he's on thatship. So, and this was, this was
the riots going on in Detroit,all over that area, Chicago. So

(11:56):
I had apprehensions aboutmeeting black people, you know,
and then to watch this takeplace like holy shit.

Siobhan (12:11):
And you understand why riots are happening?

Patrick Sauro (12:15):
I do, yeah. So, as a kid, we never locked our
doors. I could be out all night,you know, yeah, nothing was ever
said or anything, you know,because summertime and had a

(12:39):
group of friends and we, wecaused a lot of trouble, but
just being boyhood shit, youknow, without any wanting to
cause some people A disaster,you know, we would knock on

(13:02):
people's doors, right? And we'dlight a bag full of dog shit on
it on a porch, and we, you know,we'd go hide we're not. The
closer you could get, the morebraver people said you were, but
you'd watch this person stompingon the bag.

Siobhan (13:23):
I always, I never knew that really happened. I've
always seen it in movies, but Inever

Patrick Sauro (13:27):
it's as real or true as can be. Oh, thank you.
So that's what I I remember mostfondly. Yeah, was those summers,
you know?

Siobhan (13:42):
Yeah, imagine like growing up in the early 60s as a
teenager, or, you know, a youngkid, yeah,

Patrick Sauro (13:50):
absolutely, was a lot of fun. There were no
boundaries. You know, for us,during the summer, the tourist
boats people come to visit thelocks. Will get on a tourist
boat and it'll take them upthrough the locks and bring them
back around and down through thelocks. Well, right in line with

(14:15):
that, after the boat makes aturn to go back down the dock,
we'd be myself and my friendswould be swimming on this off
this little platform dock, orwhatever. We never had, we, you
know, we never, we didn't haveswimsuits. Oh, you just be butt

(14:36):
ass naked, butt ass naked,swimming and laughing and
carrying on. And then when thetourist boat got about even with
us, we'd shake our tally Wackersat him. So it

Siobhan (14:58):
was a simpler time.

Patrick Sauro (14:59):
Yeah. Well, all of us played baseball and
hockey, or we, you know, hockeywas a big thing, so baseball and
basketball kind of was put on bythe city.

(15:21):
The what I want to say is thatup until the My five year up
until the time I was five yearsold, there was a lot of fucking
abuse in my home, and I rememberthings happening to me that I

(15:45):
never saw happen to my brothers,my younger brother.

Siobhan (15:49):
How many brothers you have? Five siblings altogether?
Yeah, two

Patrick Sauro (15:52):
younger brothers and two sisters at the bottom.
So I remember my old manslapping me on the back of my
head and my falling on theground, yeah, a couple of

(16:15):
several times. And what I nowbelieve is this I'm about, I
think about three, yeah, I'mhearing this, hollering,
fighting, bitter, you know, inthe living room, I have to hold
my hand out against the wall tokeep me steady. I couldn't walk,

(16:40):
right? So I enter the livingroom and my mother's just
sobbing. I mean, you know,really hurt, and I heard the
door slam my that meant, youknow, the old man left. So when

(17:01):
I tried to console her, shesaid, Go away. You don't know
what's going on, okay, but thething I remember as a child,
Hey, what the fuck you're you'reabandoning me. You're not paying
attention to me, right? You knowwho's gonna feed me so even a

(17:22):
three year old, you have thissurvival instinct.
What happened after that?
Eventually, my father moved backin, and I think he was walking
on eggshells for a long time.
How

Siobhan (17:41):
long had she kicked him out for?

Patrick Sauro (17:45):
About six to eight months. Oh, wow. But
there's a lot of strange thingsgoing on during his absence.
Right?
One day, my mother dressed me upand told me don't get wet. She

(18:08):
would always tell me to do that,and I'd find the nearest mud
puddle. So this one time, wentoff with my friends, got wet,
came home and in my kitchen atthe time was my grandma, my
father's mother, unbelievable tome, but both her and my mother

(18:33):
have this look of seriousness.
So something's been said, andmaybe grandma was there to
straighten things out, get mymother father to move back home,
and she saw me. My pants werewet. She pulled them down, along
with my underwear. So I'm bareass with my grandma. And I'm

(18:58):
thinking, I think today, and Iwas thinking, then, this is
wrong, right? I'm not supposedto be negative in front of my
grandma. And there were othertimes an uncle or two would come
by after supper and try to talkto my mother, and that was the
biggest mistake they're evergoing to make, because she

(19:19):
wasn't going to get in andso that was, it was hard. You
know, there were times when myold man left the couch.
I froze. I couldn't move, Icouldn't breathe, and watch him

(19:44):
racing after me. I mean, youknow, it looked like a fucking
grizzly bear. And during thosetimes, no secrets ever went
outside the house.

Siobhan (19:57):
Oh, yeah, everything stayed No. Talked about

Patrick Sauro (20:00):
anything. Yeah, so

Siobhan (20:03):
I think, was he an alcoholic? No, no. He's just
mean, just me.

Patrick Sauro (20:09):
There were, there are quite a few mean people in
that story. You know, there is.
So after a while, I think he hada talk with my mother, and he
decided that they decided nomore slapping on the head, if
anything, you can use a belt.

(20:32):
Oh, big fucking difference,right? So I had grown as a young
boy to hate these people.

Siobhan (20:46):
Do you think you were getting the brunt of it and like
your siblings weren't getting itat all? Yeah, you kind of were
the because you were the oldest.
You were like a buffering forthem. Yep, exactly. So their
experience isn't going toreflect your experience at all,
and they probably, because ofthe age difference, didn't
really even see it or understandit.

Patrick Sauro (21:06):
I think myself today is they shut themselves
down when this shit was goingon, you know? They went, didn't
want to get the ire from my oldman on them, right? And so I got
that, you know, I understandthat. And for the longest time,

(21:26):
I hated them. They they stillhave the same manual mannerisms,
the same type of speech, thesame type of belittling, hmm,
that I, you know, was in ourfamily, right? But they were
mama's boys, yeah. So,around nine years old, we moved

(21:55):
I told you about moved house,and there was a guy in that
neighborhood who raped me, notonce, not twice, maybe three or
four times. But and you I hearpeople talk about how painful

(22:15):
that is and how debilitating itis and your privacy is taken
away from you. I never felt thatshit. No, not a bit of it. I was
numb,

Siobhan (22:33):
yeah, so you weren't feeling anything from it, right?

Patrick Sauro (22:35):
I mean, I could still taste the guy's penis in
my mouth and him trying toinsert it in my rectum and but
I've, I've never felt that stuffabout being raped, hmm, thinking
about it now, that is probablywhat saved my life too.

Siobhan (22:56):
Is the numbness.
Probably, yeah, yeah. I think Ihave some of that. I I think I
didn't think I had anything fromwhen I the first time I was
raped. I didn't think it reallyaffected me in a way. And then
as an adult, like, now older,and realizing some of my
relationships and like, oh, ithad a total effect on it. Yeah,

(23:16):
I still have hang ups about sex,I think, and trusting someone.
And because of it,

Patrick Sauro (23:23):
my Yeah, and so I gave my next young my youngest
brother a year younger, I gavehim my story, thinking like,
fuck. What did I do that for?
He's going to come back with allthese with a different
knowledge, and he's going to sayto me, oh, that didn't happen,

(23:48):
you know, never happened, youknow, but they didn't he sent me
back email said it's the mostcourageous thing. It

Siobhan (24:00):
is a very courageous thing that you've just done.
Yeah, you're talking about, andit's, it's nice. I was telling
someone about kind of who I wastalking to today, and that, you
know, you're a friend, and youkind of started to write this
book as part of your therapy,and how you'd kind of got,
you've been in therapy for along time, but this last kind of

(24:21):
bout has been, right? Really,what's been transformative for
you, exactly? And you reallykind of cracked open,

Patrick Sauro (24:29):
yeah, I and I don't know why I cry. I mean, I
can watch it. America's GotTalent. I hear this person
saying or whatever, and they getthe stars and the confetti in
there, and I start fuckingcrying. I have music in my car

(24:50):
that causes me to cry. You know,one of them is John Denver. I'm
sorry for myself. Oh. Yeah,that's it. That's a catchy tune,
yeah? But I actually feel I needto hear this music.

Siobhan (25:12):
Well, it's helping you get that those emotions out of
your body. There's a great bookcalled the body keeps a score.
Yeah? You told me that, yeah,and it's, it's a really good
book about how, even though youmight not realize that you
remember it your body does.
That's what energy inside of

Patrick Sauro (25:29):
you does. That's exactly what we're doing now
with the with the PTSD. How doyou feel right now? Well, what
do you I feel angry? You know,I'm 73 years old, and I'm still
dealing with these fuckingmemories, and then there's a
guilt of, what if I killed them,to destroy them, to so they

(25:56):
wouldn't hurt me anymore. But onthe other hand,

Siobhan (26:01):
you mean, kill the memories. Killed them. Oh, the
people.

Patrick Sauro (26:07):
They had good things. You know, Jeff, my next
brother down, he got guitarlessons and, you know, all
equipment for playing hockey,and I don't remember a fucking
thing about

Siobhan (26:24):
him, about you ever having those?

Patrick Sauro (26:28):
No, I never got those, right? He did, yeah. So,
well, I've been I wrote thatstory, hoping that it would heal
me, that I'd be facing thesememories, these harsh memories,

(26:51):
and reliving the abuse. I mean,just I could feel a slap on the
back of my head as we'retalking, but on the other hand,
I realized you're sticking upfor yourself. That's what you're

(27:11):
doing. Yeah, has nothing to dowith your parents or all your
harm, none of that. And if Iallow them an inkling of space
while you and I are talking,they'll be right in my presence.
So what I've learned this timewith therapy, it's about me. How

(27:38):
do you feel as a five year old?
I can tell you everything, butand then, how do I feel now as a
73 year old man, and sometimesthat little boy takes over, you
know, he's really hurt and hedoesn't trust even me. Sometimes

Siobhan (28:06):
I can understand that fully. Yeah.

Patrick Sauro (28:12):
Another thing I've been processing with this
new therapist is spirituality.

Siobhan (28:19):
Oh, interesting very because

Patrick Sauro (28:23):
I told her how every Sunday, when we go to
Grandma, I was for spaghettidinner, the first thing I did
was walk through the front doorand climb up in my grandpa's
lap. It was the only time I feltsafe, you know, yeah, and my
uncle Jr says nobody went nearyou. Nobody. They all moved

(28:46):
away. That was his time with

Siobhan (28:49):
you. Were you the oldest of his grandchildren?
There

Patrick Sauro (28:53):
was one other, but he died early, so that made
me Yeah. So uncle Juniorremembers me sitting in his
grandpa's lap and Grandpa givingme a penny. So which you

Siobhan (29:11):
could actually buy stuff with back then, right?

Patrick Sauro (29:18):
So, may 3 is my birthday. It's 1956, my two
other brothers were sitting inthe back seat. My mother and her
mother are up front.

(29:39):
It goes may 4. That's when ithappened. I was born on May 3.
Okay, so we're driving down thestreet, and my mother says
something, and I stand up tohear better, as What do you
mean? He's gone? Who's gone? I.
Your grandfather, really? Yeah.

(30:06):
She said, No more Papa. And Ithought, You fucking cunt, you
know, and the shock picked me upand slung me into the back seat.
Wow. And that created anotherfuck you in my life. So we were

(30:27):
in the car. We were going tograndpa's funeral.

Siobhan (30:31):
Oh, wow. That's how you found out he had died, yeah.

Patrick Sauro (30:36):
So I don't remember much sympathy. One time
my mother hugged me and it feltlike her arms were on fire.
It just seemed so ludicrous. Whyare you hugging me now? Where in
the fuck were you when your oldman was beating me up? Right?

Siobhan (31:01):
Hello. Did she stay with your dad till the end?

Patrick Sauro (31:10):
Based on what I learned and how where they grew
up from, they had no choice.
They had to work their ass off.
Otherwise there wouldn't be anyfood on a table. And that was
it, you know, and they put upwith a lot of abuse by people
who didn't know better, who werejust following the script handed

(31:32):
down to them, right? And I don'tknow, I honestly believe today
is they had no fucking ideathere was something else out
there.

Siobhan (31:43):
I think a lot of people don't, you know. Like, even now,
whenever I go someplace, I canhear my dad in my head. I mean,
he's still with us, thankfully.
But like, whenever, when we wereyoung, and we would travel
someplace, he would go, not bad,from a for a kid from Boston,
huh, yeah. Like, it was alwayshis thing. And, like, now when I
go and I'm traveling and I'm inEurope, but I think I always

(32:04):
have this moment where I canhear him perfectly in my head
saying, Not bad for a girl fromfor a girl from

Unknown (32:10):
Boston, huh? What a beautiful like

Siobhan (32:13):
he and I always say, My dad's a unicorn. I mean, we've
talked about, well, I used tosay that in San Francisco, you
can't call him that, meanssomething very different. But he
didn't have anyone to teach himlike no one. His dad was not a
great guy. And you know what?
Came from poor family, mygrandma, his mother, came to the
US when she was 15 by herself.

(32:36):
Wow. So no one taught him, likehow to be a good dad, or that
there was more out in the world,but he just kind of, and he
growing up, just wanted to havea like his house and his wife
and kids and be happy andsecure. That was what his dream
was for his life, and heachieved it. And you know,
everything else for him isgravy, like getting to travel

(32:58):
or, you know what I mean, comingout to see me, seeing what I've
done, is what he is so excitedabout. And he's, you know, I'm
extremely lucky that I happen towin the dad lottery, you know,
yeah. And absolutely I realizedit from a young kid, because his
brothers are, some of them are,were crazy. Like, I have
stories, like, when I tell someof the stories about growing up

(33:20):
as a kid, people look at melike, I'm crazy, yeah? Or like,
I'll say something and I'lllaugh about it, and they're
like, that's horrible it, yeah,but that was just how it was.
Like, you know,

Patrick Sauro (33:32):
there were a couple of my uncles that treated
myself and my brothers as gold.
You know, I never understood it,what? Because we were my old
man's children, but they justtook us under their care, like
your uncle Junior, like UncleJunior, just son of a bitch.

Siobhan (33:59):
So when you were and then, I mean, you were growing
up in these, these roughconditions, and then out of high
school, there was no highschool. Oh, you didn't go to
high school.

Patrick Sauro (34:10):
No, I think I went to 10th grade. Oh, wow,
yeah. But I was so overwhelmedand felt so out of place. And
even going there, I didn't wantto mix with anybody. I didn't
want to do any high schoolsports. I'd rather go not go to

(34:32):
school and go to the pool hall.

Siobhan (34:36):
Well, I mean, don't you think that maybe the the
beatings and the rape isprobably what made you feel so
apathetic towards going toschool or doing anything.
Absolutely,

Patrick Sauro (34:54):
my old man never said a fucking thing about me.
Quit in high school. He didn'tsay anything. Thing when I
wrecked the car either I didn'tfender bender anyways. So when I

(35:15):
turned 18, I went to work on theore boats. They go from Duluth
to the Great Lakes, deliveringiron ore or coal or something.
Okay, so then you go back up,you get loaded up again, you
come down and go to steel mills,you know? And it was then I got

(35:39):
this draft notice. Went to wentto Detroit, got the physical,
came back the next day, and Isaid to my mother, I hate this.
I don't want to be part of this,right? Oh, yeah. Well, you know,
if they need you, you're goingsee this knife if I hear about

(36:02):
you scaping the canter, I'mgoing to take it and stick it in
your chest. Oh, wow, right. Sothen the old man came home from
work, and how was everything? Isaid, I don't like it says,
Well, go talk to the Coast Guardrecruiter. And I did, and I took

(36:25):
me in which, which I learnedright away was the military is
awfully safe.

Unknown (36:36):
You know, that's a weird thought.

Patrick Sauro (36:39):
Who's gonna harm

Siobhan (36:41):
you. Who's gonna harm you? Well, if you're going to
Vietnam,

Patrick Sauro (36:45):
well, I didn't go to Vietnam. I was lucky, but it
was safe for me,

Siobhan (36:55):
for you, I'm sure it did feel very safe because it
was very predictable. It was lotof rules, lot of like routine.

Patrick Sauro (37:06):
Yeah, right, and I did extremely well for not
finishing high school. I wentfrom e1 lowest enlisted, up to
Chief Warrant Officer, and I hadto take a college equivalency
exam for that, right. But mygrades were the highest you

(37:30):
could get. Oh, wow. And as anofficer, my fitness reports were
always favorably, so I had thatin me. And then the more I
started delving into this book,I realized I wouldn't be here if
out that without them. That's

Siobhan (37:53):
so well. It gave you purpose and meaning absolutely
and then you've told me a storyonce about how, when you first
enlisted, there was someoneabove you that really saw
something in you and helpedfoster it, and he kind of
watched out for you exactly. Andthat's a gift, kind of he gave
to you, or, you know, he justrecognized good talent. I'm

(38:14):
sure,

Patrick Sauro (38:15):
I think that was, yeah, that was the case,

Siobhan (38:21):
because he really pushed you to become a chief
petty Petty Officer,

Patrick Sauro (38:24):
right? Well, he put me in line for it, yeah,
because I admired him so much.

Siobhan (38:30):
What was your job in the Coast Guard? I mean, I'm
sure you had a lot, but yeah, it

Patrick Sauro (38:35):
was damage controlman, pipe fitting,
welding, carpentry, any thoseskills, you know? So I learned
right away with it, when I gotto the new station we're going
to remodel this room we put up,you know. And so working with

(38:56):
him, I began to see all thesethings. And not one time I
remember us walking somewhereand an officer walking by and
say, Good afternoon, Chief.

Siobhan (39:10):
Never,

Patrick Sauro (39:12):
I don't ever remember him saying Good
afternoon sir. It was always theother way. And that was really
impressive to me. That was hekicked my ass a couple times
when I couldn't go to work. I'msure

Siobhan (39:33):
you deserved it. Yeah,

Patrick Sauro (39:35):
he was the best man at my wedding.

Siobhan (39:37):
Oh, that's beautiful.
Which wedding the first

Patrick Sauro (39:42):
one, yeah, we got married at uh, army base from up
from Washington, DC, so thatthat was okay, that all you
know. And it was, it was goodbeing married at first. But, you
know, there were all theselittle creepy things. Going on
in me. I wasn't a good father. Iwas never fucking home to be a

(40:08):
good father.

Siobhan (40:09):
So you were thriving at work, but hiding there too.
Yeah,

Patrick Sauro (40:13):
absolutely. So if I came home and my son did
something wrong, I was going topunish him. I get in a fight
with my with his mother, butthat's all I knew to punish. I
had the best fucker in the worldteaching me that shit. And so

(40:38):
got I went from Washington, DCto Upper Michigan on an
icebreaker. From there I went toAlaska. Oh, yeah, and there I
made Chief Petty Officer, whichwas, yes, was Alaska colder than
Michigan? No, no, no, it's wildto me. Well, yeah, well, ketchup

(41:01):
can is right on the Tongassnarrows a big opening. It goes
all the way up to Juneau,surrounded by on and there they
get the trade winds from Japanor around that area. So all that
warmth is still coming up, youknow? Oh, okay, I think we only

(41:23):
shoveled snow once or twice,like, four years. Oh, wow,
that's it. But it did rain,

Siobhan (41:29):
yeah, it rained a lot,

Patrick Sauro (41:32):
and I did. I wrote a firefighting manual for
the base, and I was put incharge of teaching the duty
sections. Oh, wow. Yeah,

Siobhan (41:45):
you just, they were just like, hey, do you know
anything about fires? And youwere like, No. And they were
like, Here, write a manual.

Patrick Sauro (41:51):
Yeah, that was it. That was exactly it. I

Siobhan (41:56):
walked the efficiency of the US military, yeah,

Patrick Sauro (41:59):
cabin Captain's Office with my division officer,
and somehow we got on to talkabout training the duty
sections. Well, that left mewith, what do I know? How to

(42:23):
train people? Yes, infirefighting. No, I had just the
basic learning in boot camp forfighting fire. So my ex wife and
I usually every Yeah, everyweekend we'd get together and
we'd talk about this next lessonplan. And then throughout the

(42:44):
week, I would meet with eachduty section. We'd go over this
did a lot of drills. I mean,taping over their masks and
getting on the hands and kneesand following a hose. Oh, that's
smart. And then finding asomebody there. Oh, now they got
to get back with that hose toget out and bring that person

(43:07):
with

Siobhan (43:09):
and that's just training that. Did you like see
that in a book? Or did you justkind of make it

Patrick Sauro (43:16):
up? Now that you think about it, I must have
heard something about that? Oh,I got a lot of fire training,
firefighting training, video,videos, movies to watch. And
they showed one guy on his handsand knees following that this,

(43:38):
you know, hose. And I thought,that's not good enough. It
doesn't even do anything except,you know how to follow a hose on
your hands and knees. So byputting a person down there, now
they got, they have to think,right? Okay, so you got this
person. What do I do? Well,think about it, you came in by

(44:05):
that hose, and that's the onlyway you got in there, and that's
the only way you're going to getout. So I used a lot of smoke,
artificial smoke, like they usein a movie, and a couple times

(44:30):
when any of those four dutysections were ready to fight
fires, and I was a volunteerfirefighting captain for The
Little Village I lived in. Oh,okay, so we duty section one
night, one afternoon, we went tofight a fire in that there's the

(44:58):
housing division. And then therewas this forest fire going on.
And the other thing that made itdangerous was the fire was going
through these tunnels. Oh,right. And they could pop up
anywhere. So if I put a hoseteam out there, I put another

(45:19):
hose team behind them, so tokeep keep them safe, and so
they're fighting this fire. AndAlaska took their fire fighting
people, a group of them and sentthem to the base. They relieved

(45:44):
me. Oh, wow, yeah. So I got amedal for that. I grew so much
up there to become a chief,which was always my goal was it
went to Air Station Miami,

Siobhan (46:08):
after Alaska. That's a culture shock, as much as a
weather shock, you name it.

Patrick Sauro (46:15):
And so I was there for four years, and then I
was transferred to base Alameda.
At first, I was on theengineering end, and we did
projects, and I was theemergency officer. Oh, okay, so

(46:36):
if this guy up in Portland orsomething is having trouble with
a machine or something's notgoing well or breaking down,
they would call me first, and wewould talk about the situation,
and I might send them money,

Siobhan (46:56):
money. Oh, so you were controlling budgets and things
like that.

Patrick Sauro (47:00):
Yeah. And I also had a $12 million back project
backlog, oh shit, wow. I gotanother medal there for
revamping the headquarters unitfor the Pacific. Pacific
headquarters unit, yeah, andthat was, that was good, but the

(47:25):
tension between my wife wasstrong as ever. Yeah, a couple
times I had I couldn't stand tofeel that flame. You know that
that because it felt like mybody was hurting so much, and
like we talked about bodieskeeping memories, yeah, so I

(47:48):
went to live on the base. I'dstay for a week or two, and my
head would get a little clearer.
And, you know, but again, I'llsay it. I was not a good father.
I should have taken that boyfishing. I should have did this.
I should have done that. Ifucking didn't right. And I felt

(48:09):
and by then, I felt alienated,

Siobhan (48:15):
oh, from the family unit.

Patrick Sauro (48:17):
Yeah. So my my wife went out, she's working at
night, and one time she comehome four o'clock in the
morning. Where you been? I wasout with a friend. Oh, okay,
yeah. And then she said, thenshe said, this, he's a
firefighter. And I went, oh, oh.
I Oh, so I can't live like this,right?

Siobhan (48:49):
So did you end up leaving her? Oh? Or did she

Patrick Sauro (48:53):
she moved in with a friend, and she said, she
said, we can always date fuck wecan you think I want to trust
you when you did this? No, andI'll never be able to. And so we

(49:17):
got a divorce. She moved backeast to Washington, DC. She took
the two kids, and then the boy,he moved back out here to
California, and I was retired. Iwas going to college. So one

(49:40):
day, there he was, you know, butall the time I was going to
college, and I'd see a kid infront of me who looked like he
would behind, you know, lookingat his back, and I would have to
rush to walk up and look at thatboy to make sure it wasn't him.
Yeah, oh.

Siobhan (50:00):
Yeah, so did he move out here to be near you, or was
it just happenstance that hemoved No, he

Patrick Sauro (50:05):
had some friends out here, and he moved in with
them, so we would go play golftogether, and we'd have a great
time, and then he would snap atme, yeah, I wonder why he got

(50:27):
this. And, you know, yeah, I gohome. I go home. I didn't know
whether I was supposed to kissthe dog and slap Christine,
because he was. He had all mytriggers, yeah, you know. So I,
I've, I don't want to be aroundI'm not going to go places where

(50:49):
I get hurt, right? Fuck that.

Siobhan (50:53):
But you now know that it's, it's the trauma from just
like you had from your dad, hehas from you, the abandonment
stuff, the not being worthy

Patrick Sauro (51:05):
of all the above, yeah, and according to my
therapist, is signs of PTSD areinherited. Okay, so looking back
at it now, everybody in afucking family except grandma,
right? Even the girls, they lookat you and you better be careful

(51:28):
you're not pissing one off yoursisters. Yeah, well, here's my
father's sisters. Ah,so I move out here and I have
the job at debate at the baseheadquarters unit. I travel up
and down the coast. Yeah, youknow, I had a free will, sounds

(51:51):
nice? Yeah, I had an executiveofficer. He was, yeah, okay, I
gotta go to down here tomorrow.
Yeah, okay, I'm gonna go out andlook at this. Okay, so four
years later, I'm transferred tothe base, and I'm the Public

(52:14):
Works officer for the wholeunit, right? And now I had
chiefs working for me because Iwas Warrant Officer of one, you
know, above them. And it wasright about during that time, my

(52:35):
wife and I, when she came homelate, fuck this. I ain't living
like

Siobhan (52:42):
that. How long had you been married? 18 years? Wow.

Patrick Sauro (52:46):
So she still collects my half of my pension
retirement, hmm. Why been over18 years since we separated? So
now she's getting two checks.
And one of the things I'vebecause of Christine.

Siobhan (53:06):
Christine's your current wife, yeah?

Patrick Sauro (53:09):
Because of her, she'll say, just let it go,
right?

Siobhan (53:13):
Yeah, you can't do anything about it

Patrick Sauro (53:15):
now, but my nature was fucking stop me,
right? And now it's no mydaughter. We hardly ever talk,
but it's enough to know for usto know each one's alive. She
may call me every once in twoyears, Hey, Dad. But or I might

(53:36):
call her something. I haven'tsent her that story yet. Do you
think you will? Oh, I know Iwill. Yeah,

Siobhan (53:44):
I know I will. Do you think it'll help her to maybe
see your where your flaws camefrom?

Patrick Sauro (53:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
Another thing. Last time we wereon the phone, she would, you
know, she's going on about thisand that another thing, I said,
You better get your ass to atherapist. And let me tell you
this, if you fucking Don't go,don't call me. Oh, this is how
important I feel. It is for you.

(54:14):
You know,

Siobhan (54:16):
I like the intention, but maybe the delivery was
problematic.

Patrick Sauro (54:20):
Probably was, but anyway, she called me back, told
me she had a new therapist. So,yeah, great.

Siobhan (54:30):
What prompted you to start therapy?

Patrick Sauro (54:38):
I guess feeling out of place, not being
centered, and my mind was alwaysrolling, you know, it wouldn't
give me any rest and so, butwhen I was at work, when I was
on the station base, whatever itstopped, I didn't have the

(54:59):
crazies. Then I startedfantasizing about Christine, my
first wife, cheating on me. Andso I started therapy when I was
maybe 25 oh, wow, yeah. And whatI I didn't go consistently, but

(55:24):
I did, you know, to where I wasfeeling better, right? You know?
And most of the therapists Iwent with went to, we get to
talking, and she and I say, I'mdamaged goods. What? What do you
mean? Damaged goods. Damagedgoods. I've been abused, beat

(55:47):
up, you know? And I also say tothe therapist, I need to go
deeper. Okay, I have to fuckinggo deeper. And inevitably, they
would all say, what for? Right?
You're here now. No. SoChristine and I had been married

(56:09):
for maybe, maybe a year, and shesaid something one night and
took a fork full of spaghettiand fluid in their face. And the
next day, I went to the VAclinic, and they gave me an MD
and a physical. And when Italked with a doctor, I want you

(56:34):
to go to behavioral health. So Idid that at first, and they gave
me. I had three therapists my Iwas so good at it, but one of
one worked on my childhood andabuse and all that, and the

(56:55):
other one, she more or lesshelped me adjust to a new life,
a new way of being right. Istill have the military thinking
right. I can order people to dothis and do that anymore. No,
you can't. You try to. Yeah. Sothat we stopped that things went

(57:23):
away for a while, and then shitwould happen again from out of
fucking nowhere, right? Itwasn't something I consciously
wanted to happen, but my PTSDwent like this. It'd be right
here, right now, and then itwould go away. I'd go way out
there, like no longer a memory,and then it would come back and

(57:48):
hit me again, oftentimes worse.
I tried committing suicidetwice, and I didn't do it. Wow,

(58:10):
yeah, so I'm

Siobhan (58:12):
glad you didn't do it.
Thank you. I just heard aninterview with oh, I'm not gonna
remember his name. He was juston 60 minutes, and it was a
gentleman. That is his son. Hewas in the Secret Service. He
was in he's been in governmentfor a long time, and his son was
a Navy Seal, I saw that who justkilled anyone. And he just said,

(58:35):
and he said he had a beautifulline in it where he said he
wasn't taking the easy way out,because a lot of people say that
about suicide, and he was sayingit was the only way he could,
one, get anybody's attention,and two, it's the only way he
could find his peace. That'sright? And I thought that that's
I love, that he took the momentto kind

Patrick Sauro (58:56):
of enforce that, yeah, you know, and like, this
new therapist I've been with forsix weeks. And, um, we go back.
Sometimes we have to go back tothis same situation again and
again, you know, so that I findmy spirit

(59:22):
and I mentioned grandpa earlier,and so I was sitting in the
bursaries, right? We weretalking about being raped the
first time she says, let's takea break. Maybe you want to go

(59:49):
sit in your trees right now.
Yeah, I do okay, you do that,and we'll get on with more you.
Oh, my grandpa comes in thewoods with me. This is hard for
me to adjust to, right? Youknow? I mean, God, God abandoned

(01:00:11):
me already, so fuck him, right?
Didn't do shit for me. And nowhere's my grandpa. Doesn't say
anything. Doesn't have to but Ifeel this sense of renewal. So

Siobhan (01:00:27):
while you're meditating, and what she taught
you to do is to meditate and tofind a safe space, to kind of
bring your body to and meditatein there. And so while you're
sitting there meditating andthinking about being in your
birch trees, exactly, he justcame, comes walking in through
to your meditation. Yeah, right.
And I think that that's thespirit of I do too, and it's
trying to help you and heal youand let you know that you're

(01:00:50):
okay and you're safe. And

Patrick Sauro (01:00:53):
exactly, yeah, I told Christine about this. I
said I didn't see Jesus. I sawGrandpa, you know, all these
years later, even when I was achild, he was there.

Siobhan (01:01:08):
Yeah, he was your safe space as a kid, whether or not
you realized it then Exactly,

Patrick Sauro (01:01:13):
yeah, I have a picture of me sitting on his
lap. Well, actually, I'm just ababy right then, and I'm on his
lap, and I got my hands over hisbig belly, you know? So

Siobhan (01:01:28):
that's cute, and

Patrick Sauro (01:01:31):
that, that's another thing that I've that has
given me power, strength. Iuh, the snare therapist said,
Wow, you did so well today.

(01:01:53):
I said. She says, Do you want todo anything more? No,
I just want to sit here andexperience what's going on. You
know that I'm not junk. I havefears. I don't like heights, so
I don't go over the Bay Bridgeunless somebody is driving me.

(01:02:16):
Okay? I stay away from crowds, Ithink for the first time, I love
myself.

Siobhan (01:02:28):
That's beautiful. I'm glad that you found that for
yourself. Yeah, and it's amazingto see someone at your age still
doing the work to improveyourself, to to to get a better
life, to find the joy that lifecan offer you, right, right, and
to enjoy, like the the twilightof your life in the best way

Patrick Sauro (01:02:51):
possible. Oh yeah, I'm like, I finally, I'm
okay.

Siobhan (01:02:57):
We have a beautiful wife who loves you a lot. I
mean, you

Patrick Sauro (01:03:02):
loves me a lot.
You see the scars on my neck?
Oh, I didn't

Siobhan (01:03:07):
know we were getting into your kink side.

Patrick Sauro (01:03:09):
No, no, but yeah, she's, she's,

Siobhan (01:03:14):
she's bro. I hope she'll come and sit with me,
because I love hearing thelittle bit of her stories that
she's shared with me, yeah, shewas a wild lady. Oh, she was.

Patrick Sauro (01:03:25):
She really was.
And she

Siobhan (01:03:27):
has this energy about her, like she can command a room
just by walking in it. She does.
She's in her 70s. She's got herwalker, but she still is one of
the most stunning people thatwalks into that room.

Patrick Sauro (01:03:40):
I take her down to the Benton, the whole fucking
bar goes quiet, yeah, you know,and all those Irish mutts get
off their stools and come overand say hello and honor, and she
never comes here. How come Iain't getting that? Because

Siobhan (01:04:00):
we see you all the time, yeah, in your salty, old
son of a bitch, yeah, she's

Patrick Sauro (01:04:07):
She saved my life after I've been going to therapy
for a while, one of the doctorssaid might be a Good idea to
bring your wife in for couplescounseling, and why she saved my

(01:04:28):
life, I believe, is while we'rein counseling, I was telling a
therapist exactly how I feltabout women, oh, about not
trusting women and some otherthings. And to this day, I'm
looking at her, she has tears inher eyes, but she doesn't leave.

Siobhan (01:04:55):
She loves you, yeah, so I.

Patrick Sauro (01:05:04):
We put our little dog down the other day. He was
too old, but she stayed withthat little guy all the way up
until the needle was put in. AndI saw her in a different light,

Siobhan (01:05:27):
interesting.

Patrick Sauro (01:05:30):
I saw her in a place of place of no fear, no
apprehensions about what she wasdoing. She made friends. Of
course, she always makesfriends, but she stood out in

(01:05:51):
the rain too. Didn't call. I wasparked around the corner. She
didn't call me to come back andget her. She had it all under
control.

(01:06:11):
And that was just one of thoseevents, you know, in my life
that just put me in shock. Theonly thing I could say is, I see
things better.

Siobhan (01:06:30):
You have a healthier perspective.

Patrick Sauro (01:06:32):
Well, yeah, and I go for a walk and, oh, hey, this
house is here. Well, it's alwaysbeen there. But why did it look
so different? Is because I'mseeing

Siobhan (01:06:46):
it. You're more present in your

Patrick Sauro (01:06:48):
life. Yeah, yeah, right area tree, there's a lot
of black guys walking down thestreet I'm on, and I used to,
just didn't want to be part ofit, you know. But now I say,
Hello, how you doing? And it'susually people around my age

(01:07:11):
like, yeah, okay, this happenedthen, you know. But now it's a
new day. So yeah, and my bestfriend, she's, I, she took golf
lessons from me, and she's justbeen super good, super good.

Siobhan (01:07:32):
So you keep having these women that come into your
life that are good to you, yeah,that you can trust that.

Patrick Sauro (01:07:42):
Yeah. I think I wrote there that it's people who
give me my strength.

Siobhan (01:07:52):
Yeah, I think you've probably already had your
strength in you. You just didn'tknow how to tap into it exactly,
exactly, and now you've learnedthat you can trust yourself,
that you know the evidence hasshown you that you whether or
not you realize that you haveloved yourself all the time,
it's just that you weren't awareof that love for yourself

Patrick Sauro (01:08:11):
most of it then was survival. I said I thought
about committed suicide, butthen I thought, What a coward i
am so that's not gonna happen. Iget there's a but, and I put it
in the end of that story wherethe writer says he went down to

(01:08:36):
the cliff and he invited them tocome with him. They said, No.
Did it again. They said no. Thenext time he pushed them and
they sprouted wings, and that isso poignant for me.

(01:09:02):
I got pushed off a cliff

Siobhan (01:09:05):
and you grew wings.

Patrick Sauro (01:09:08):
Yeah, that's why I feel now. That's beautiful.
Yeah, we're last have to talkabout the rape with his
therapist.

Siobhan (01:09:19):
Well, you'll get to that in your time, and when
you're ready, it's

Patrick Sauro (01:09:22):
going to be next Tuesday, that's her time. But
I'm not afraid anymore.

Siobhan (01:09:30):
I had a therapist once who told me when I was talking
about whether or not I wanted toopen up some of the things in my
past. She said there are thingsthat you will will want, that
you kind of have to open, andthere are some things that you
don't and I said, and I said,Well, I'm afraid of it, you
know? And she said, Why wouldyou be afraid of it? It can't
hurt you again, right? She said,it already hurt you once, and

(01:09:52):
you've survived it.

Patrick Sauro (01:09:53):
I have to use your back Go for it was empty at
work. Oh,

Siobhan (01:09:59):
you're. On the ozempic, huh, yeah. How's it affecting
you? Other than,

Patrick Sauro (01:10:06):
um, I'm losing weight. Oh, good. Walking
better, taller. Um, that'swhat's happening. I joined a
gym. Good. Started going forwalks.

Siobhan (01:10:21):
You know, I love a walk. Well, yeah,

Patrick Sauro (01:10:25):
where I live on central right across the street
is crown beach, so walk alongthe shoreline,

Siobhan (01:10:33):
yep, that used to be my walk every day because I lived
right off of shoreline. Yeah,and I missed that walk. I miss.
Sometimes I now will drive overto shoreline and then walk the
whole beach, but I have beenwalking a lot by the Hornet,
yeah, here, yeah, which is, it'sstill beautiful, but it's not

(01:10:55):
quite the bit the beach view.
Yeah,

Patrick Sauro (01:11:00):
that how going for walks helps me a lot to
centering myself

Siobhan (01:11:07):
when you walk. Do you listen to anything, or do you
just walk?

Patrick Sauro (01:11:10):
Well, I used to listen to headphones, but I had
all this rock and roll on it,and that would make me walk
faster. Well, that's good. So soso I, when I go to the gym on a
treadmill, I'll put music on,but not when I'm walking. What

Siobhan (01:11:27):
about like, audio books or podcasts?

Patrick Sauro (01:11:31):
No, I just walk.
That's

Siobhan (01:11:33):
good. It means that you can be in your own head too.
Yeah, there are some days that Ineed, I feel like I want to
listen to like, four things tojust get out of my head. And
there are other times that I'llwalk with nothing, I'll have
sometimes a headphone in, but itwon't actually be playing
anything, yeah, where I can justthink,

Patrick Sauro (01:11:50):
like I said earlier, is I'm seeing things in
new lights, and one of the tomaintain that is to go for a
walk. Yeah, I think for myself,yeah,

Siobhan (01:12:07):
I have the two things I do walks and I do the banya. And
those two things really helpcenter me and keep me who I am.
You know, I say I go into thebanya as one person and come out
as myself. I think the same istrue for a walk. I started a
walk, and I'm in like, oneheadspace, and I come back and
I'm like, Okay, now I can tacklemy day. Now I can do absolutely

(01:12:30):
right this. I've moved my body,I've stretched it all out. I
know where my pain points allare, and that for that day.

Patrick Sauro (01:12:37):
Well, yeah, and I so I joined Anytime Fitness. Oh,
nice. And I like that, that Ican go there anytime I want, day
or night, whatever, and I mayeven go in there for 10 minutes,
just put some time on atreadmill or something right? I

(01:13:04):
don't I'm not in a race anymore.
No, I don't want to be hyped upwith rock and roll music and
that stuff. I find myself takingbetter care of me.

Siobhan (01:13:21):
You mentioned earlier that Christine has seemed to
start to look at you in adifferent light. That must feel
nice. It does. Must feel likeyou all are kind of rekindling
some old passion in your Yeah,you know,

Patrick Sauro (01:13:38):
I don't leave that house unless I'm dressed
for her approval. You're notwearing that. What's wrong with
it, man, you're not goingoutside like that. Go change.

Siobhan (01:13:51):
Well, you represent her too. That's true.

Patrick Sauro (01:13:56):
Um, this, she's probably the she is the best
thing in my life. She comfortsme. And sometimes when my PTSD
is acting up, she'll say, go inthe bedroom. I don't hear about

(01:14:17):
it. Call your therapist.

Siobhan (01:14:21):
Yeah, she's very good at boundaries, from what I can
tell, yeah, and she'll listen toyou when she can and when she's
not in that space. She has noproblem telling you none at all.
But I think that's probably alsowhat lends you to be able to
trust her, because you know thatshe'll tell you the truth all
the time.

Patrick Sauro (01:14:42):
For a while there, John and I were good
friends, and then one night, hestarted just blistering me with
stuff. So I went home and I toldChristine, and she said he was
drunk. What you're telling me?
Right? If you're drunk, you cando these things. That's what
you're telling me, right? So Igo out, I get drunk, I come

(01:15:07):
home, I don't say shit or doanything wrong, and you're gonna
give this fucking guy thatexcuse?

Siobhan (01:15:18):
I don't think so. Do you think she was giving him an
excuse, or do you think she wasexplaining why he was being like

Patrick Sauro (01:15:24):
that? Probably both. But I don't care. I don't
care because I don't want to bepart of it anymore. I don't want
to be fucking abused, right, orlooked down and all this other
stuff. My like I say in thatlast part of that story, my AAA

(01:15:47):
sponsor said, God did not createjunk. No, he does not.
So that I'm much more aware ofthat. I mean, Grandpa doesn't
look like Jesus, but he is tome one time. Oh, I was stationed

(01:16:13):
on the base, and my son brokehis leg, and he had to go over
to Oak Knoll Naval Hospital befor surgery. Okay, so I found
out about it after the fact thatby the time I got there, he was

(01:16:33):
in the recovery room. Oh, wow.
And I was so scared and hurtingfor him, and I took his hand in
mine, and this is honest God'struth, grandpa, my uncles and my
father shot this bolt down myhand into his, and I explained

(01:16:58):
that to An older guy one time.
He says, So what? What's it'snot a big deal. That's what's
supposed to happen.

Siobhan (01:17:13):
Oh, it's like they were passing
their strength down.

Patrick Sauro (01:17:19):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. But I
write that I wish they werestill alive. All of them were
alive, and I would love to tellmy papa I love you,

Siobhan (01:17:37):
but they know Yeah, and their spirit can hear you now. I
firmly believe in that, yeah,

Patrick Sauro (01:17:46):
on my way from Alaska to Florida stopped. It
was my family, and we went to myhome, and somehow or another, I
got involved with tearing theirbathroom apart and remodeling it

(01:18:07):
okay. And no man sticks his headabove the trap door in the
ceiling. He says something says,You come a long way, kid. That's
first fucking and last timethere was that

Siobhan (01:18:25):
encouragement.

Patrick Sauro (01:18:27):
Yeah, but I think it was more about hard to tell.
I couldn't explain that. Do

Siobhan (01:18:35):
you think it gave you any peace at the time?

Patrick Sauro (01:18:40):
No, I don't, because I didn't get it. I was
again every time I go in ahouse, I get numb, right? I
couldn't wait to leave thathouse. So I remember that I um,

(01:19:05):
I'm not afraid anymore.

Siobhan (01:19:07):
No, you're not. And I think your book will help a lot
of other people. I think yourstory will help people. Yeah,
it's like I said before, it'samazing to see someone at your
age still looking for thevibrance in life and doing the
work and healing the parts ofyou and going back to take care
of the kid in you.

Patrick Sauro (01:19:25):
Yeah, yeah.
Sometime during the middle 80s,there was a program on CBS, no
another channel, PBS, and theyhad this man. His name's John
Bradshaw, and he's writtenseveral books about childhood.

(01:19:52):
Oh, okay, about inner child. Oh,okay. And there's. Meditations.
Andafter I finished this story, I
ordered all three volumes again,you know, because he was just,
he was writing my fuckingscript, right, you know? And

(01:20:14):
what I'm now getting it. I'mfucking getting it when I
abandon myself and think ofthose who hurt me, I'm fucked I
have fucked myself out of aplace at the table just that

(01:20:38):
easy, and as long as they wantto, as long as they keep
ruminating, ruminating in myhead, they get back their power,
right. So now I'm getting to,you know, now, again, to a point
they shouldn't matter at all,not that I'm upset or angry at

(01:21:00):
them, just I don't need them inmy life. I can't afford to have
them in my life.

Siobhan (01:21:09):
And therapy is giving you that the kind of the key to
unlocking to get them out. Yeah,exactly. Do you think learning
to meditate has been the biggesthelpful,

Patrick Sauro (01:21:22):
um, there's many, yeah, there's some meditations
in this book by Bradshaw. One isthat's a baby, elementary
school, age, high school, and myusually with my meditation. It's
to stop this, to prevent thisfrom happening again, and

(01:21:49):
anything it changes shapes. Youknow what the PTSD that left me
here is out there eating otherpeople, so to speak, it's
changed its character.

Siobhan (01:22:04):
Yeah, it's like hiding into new people to Hello, yeah,
well, it's like they say, youknow, life will test you. You
know, have you really healedfrom this? It'll keep throwing
the test at you until it is kindof satisfied, and know that you
really did heal that part andyou're over it,

Patrick Sauro (01:22:21):
right? Yeah, exactly the other day, Tuesday,
when I see her, we didn't finishthe whole session, she said,
let's stop for a moment. I wantyou to feel

(01:22:52):
your strength. I want you to bewell aware of this from your
head to the tip of your toes andYeah, got it laid up for 20
minutes just looking justfeeling renewed. No, we still

(01:23:15):
have to go through the rape, andwe still have to deal with old
man beating me up and kicking mewith his work boots on. I'm not
afraid anymore. I'm not

Siobhan (01:23:31):
That's amazing.

Patrick Sauro (01:23:33):
It's a miracle.

Siobhan (01:23:35):
It is. It's a gift you're
giving yourself, right? And thenby writing this and sharing
these stories you're helping tohopefully give it to someone
else too.

Patrick Sauro (01:23:44):
Yeah, yeah.
Rachel helped me with the firstpart of this story, and I
thought, Well, okay, let I'llgive it another shot and see
what she's doing. And she wrote,wrote me, email me. So this is
wonderful, courageous, you know,could be healing for others.

Siobhan (01:24:05):
Yep, I think it will be. And I think I'm excited to
see what happens while it'sbeing reviewed and chopped. And
you know, when you have yourfinal book release out, we'll do
another one of these, where wesit down and talk about how much
further you come. And, yeah, youknow, we'll have a little book
party, right?

Patrick Sauro (01:24:26):
So now I'm looking for a publisher, or I
could Self Publish. The fewinquiries I made with publishing
houses is, oh, yeah, we'll helpyou. We'll read, write and edit
your script. No, you're not,you're not changing the fucking

(01:24:47):
work.

Siobhan (01:24:49):
So self publishing may be what we do with you, because,
yeah, you don't want to let themchange it at all, not a bit.

Patrick Sauro (01:24:57):
And it's not.
Because I did this wonderfulthing, it's because I gotten to
the point in my life I don'tneed your assistance if you're
going to do that. You know, yougo fuck yourself.

Siobhan (01:25:12):
Well, do you think maybe you're being a little
rigid on that

Patrick Sauro (01:25:16):
I am. Yeah, yeah.
You know why? Because you can,yeah. And that's my

Siobhan (01:25:20):
story. It is your story, and it should be told
your way and sharing it.

Patrick Sauro (01:25:26):
So I have the feeling if it got edited, a lot
of things would get taken out.
Oh,

Siobhan (01:25:40):
maybe, but maybe, but maybe not.

Patrick Sauro (01:25:42):
You know, I haven't gone that far yet
either. Well,

Siobhan (01:25:47):
I think your writing is beautiful, Patrick, and I thank
you so much for coming andsharing this with us and for
being so open.

Patrick Sauro (01:25:55):
People make me who I am. Yeah,

Siobhan (01:25:59):
all right, y'all, we're gonna go, and we will see you
next week, and we hope that yougo find some of your own joy for
yourself today. We love you.
Well put thanks. Love. Thank youfor listening to that casual
conversation about some seriousshit. That's exactly what we're
brewing up here at Duckingreality. A huge thank you to
Patrick for showing up, keepingit real and sharing his story.

(01:26:20):
Be sure to like, follow andsubscribe and share this with
your favorite duck or someonewho could use a little truth in
their tea, because here we'renot just talking, we're sharing
stories and hopefully changinglives. Want to connect with
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(01:26:40):
all of our past episodesproduced with love and a lot of
caffeine at the Duckingbrilliant studios in Alameda,
California, by your host me.
Siobhan, thank you for joiningme in the pond, and I can't wait
to have you back next time. Anduntil then, stay curious, stay

(01:27:01):
joyful, and remember you arepowerful and you're deeply
loved, my ducks now go and findthat joy today. You.