October 1, 2025 • 51 mins
Is your marriage running on autopilot, or do you have a game plan for building a thriving relationship? In this episode of Faith Fueled Woman, Kristin Fitch talks with relationship coach and licensed counselor Tondra Gregory, co-author of The Marriage Game Plan, about how couples can create a shared vision for their marriage.
We explore practical, faith-based strategies for improving communication, resolving conflict, and prioritizing connection, even in the busiest seasons of life. From understanding how your past influences your relationship to making intentional time for date nights, this conversation will inspire you to stop coasting and start cultivating a stronger, more joy-filled marriage.
Whether you’re newlyweds or decades in, this episode will give you actionable tools to strengthen your bond, align your goals, and keep God at the center of your marriage.
✅ Key Takeaways
- Every marriage needs a game plan to navigate challenges with grace, communication, and teamwork.
- Understanding your spouse’s background fosters empathy and helps address recurring conflicts.
- Building intentional rhythms—like date nights and quality time—is essential for intimacy and connection.
- Conflict resolution styles differ; finding strategies that work for both partners is key.
- Placing God at the center of your marriage brings clarity, purpose, and long-term strength.
- The Marriage Game Plan provides couples with a practical framework to personalize their path to a thriving marriage.
Connect with Tondra at https://journeyforlifenow.org/
Listen to The Marriage Game Plan Podcast here.
Download My Free Joyful Living Devotional: https://kristinfitch.com/devotional
Ready to take your first step towards a more joyful, faith-filled life? Download our Reignite Your Passion Workbook and start living with purpose today!
What to feel more energized in midlife? Grab my 5 Day Energy Reset Jump Start Guide here.
Ready to work with Kristin to make a shift in your life? Click here to get started.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi and welcome to Faithfield Woman.
This is your host, Kristen.
Today in the podcast we aretalking about marriage and we are
going to talk about the bookthe Marriage Game Plan and why we
need a game plan for ourmarriages and how that can strengthen
and build our marriages so wecan navigate differences, we can
navigate conflict resolution,we can learn how to communicate clearer
(00:22):
and that we can just show upin our marriages to serve one another
and to build a legacy together.
Hey friend, are you cravingdeeper faith, renewed purpose and
more joy in your everyday life?
Welcome to Faith Filled Womanpodcast that helps Christian women
grow spiritually pursue God'scalling and embrace the abundant
life he has for you.
I'm Kristen, an encourager,mentor, entrepreneur, wife and mom,
(00:47):
here to uplift, equip andinspire you with faith filled conversations
and biblical wisdom.
Subscribe now so you nevermiss an episode and join our faith
fueled community for more encouragement.
Hi.
Today on the podcast I wouldlike to welcome our guest, Tondra
Gregory.
She is relationship coach.
She's a licensed mental health counselor.
(01:08):
She is a mother of two youngadult children.
Her and her husband also workwith the NFL.
They help counsel and ourchaplains currently for the, let's
see, is it the LA Los Angeles Chargers?
She actually does the workwith the women alongside her husband
and they used to do themarriage ministry at Saddleback Church.
(01:28):
They're involved in so muchand they've just released a book
in July called the MarriageGame Plan.
It is developing a winningstrategy for marital success.
And I'm excited to have thisconversation today because much like
her, I've been married almostas long.
I've been married for 26 yearsand I think they're married just
over 30.
And you know, so I've beenthrough, you know, decades of being
(01:51):
married.
And so I love that they'rehelping couples, married couples
from where at every pointthey're at, to really look at their
marriage as something thatneeds a game plan, that they look
at the marriage that it's,it's continuously changing and it
has to be around aconversation and what we're putting
into it.
And so I hope thisconversation will encourage you to,
(02:14):
you know, just get in therewith your marriage and get going
to make it the best it can be.
Because we all know when wehave strong marriages and strong
families, that is the backboneof what makes, you know, the world
strong.
Because we can, you know, wedon't have more broken families.
So I love it.
So, Tundra, welcome to the show.
You so much for having me.
(02:35):
Oh my gosh, you Guys areworking with so many people in different
capacities, but in most cases,it's too.
You help them win life and winin their marriage.
And so can you just share withus a little bit about life and about
what you're up to now in the book?
Okay.
I am life right now.
(02:55):
I am being stretched beyond mycomfort zone.
Way beyond my comfort zone.
And so, you know, in theBible, when it talks about Jesus
called Peter out the boat, Ifeel like I'm out the boat and I
am trying to fight from sinking.
So that's.
That's what's going on right now.
(03:16):
And that is coming through.
Being authors, this is ourfirst marriage book that we've written
together.
This is my first book thatI've ever written.
And just, I was thinking,okay, the hard part is going to be
just writing this book.
But then the book opens up awhole nother realm of more speaking
(03:41):
engagements and interviews andall of these things.
So I just feel like, yes, liferight now, I'm in a stretching season
outside of my comfort zone.
You know, what I love aboutthat is we're supposed to be obedient
and do the work that we'recalled to do.
And you guys felt on yourheart not just to do the work with
(04:02):
couples, but to actually putthis book out there.
So people that don't work withyou directly, directly always have
this resource, this tool.
But what I love about that isso often when we actually take the
step in obedience, God willgive us even more.
Right.
So like you said, the book isonly the another part of your story,
and then from that he'll useit to even do so many more things.
(04:24):
Absolutely.
I love it, but it's a stretch,but I get it.
It's because you're growinginto even more opportunities.
That's wonderful.
Absolutely.
I love that.
Okay, so your book came out, Ithink, the first of July.
And you know, you know, thegist is obviously it is supposed
to be this book that helpspeople walk through these different
(04:46):
things, that if we.
We don't, we don't just readabout the examples and the scripture
basis for it, but then we'reto apply it and actually make it
our own, Right?
Absolutely.
What would you just tell us about?
Why do we need a marriage plan?
First of all?
Yes.
We need a marriage game planbecause, you know, after we get married,
(05:06):
you know, and the happily everafter wears off.
Because it does, because lifeis happening and, you know, we're
going to hit challenges andseasons of struggle, may not be in
your marriage directly, but itcould be just, you're in a season
of struggle, health issues,having children, all those things,
career changes.
And so after the dust settles,we actually need to make sure that
(05:31):
we've locked in a game plan onhow we want to navigate all of the
challenges and the ups anddowns and the twists and turns that
life brings our way.
Because we don't have controlover what life brings at us, but
we do have control over how wereact, how we respond, our perspective
that we're going to have.
(05:52):
So a game plan.
Having a game plan puts thecouple on the same page, heading
in the same direction, whichallows for that teamwork.
And it's.
It's being proactive versusreactive, knowing, okay, life is
going to come at us.
Here's how we work besttogether, here's what each of us
want to do to make sure thatwe are on the same page, moving in
(06:14):
the same direction.
So true.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously I've beenmarried a while, so, you know, it
was a while ago we werethinking about this, and I know I
took.
Maybe, maybe we went through,like a faith.
What is it called when you dothe prior to marriage classes?
Premature class.
Yeah, I remember doing that,but even that, it was only scratching
(06:36):
the surface.
Right.
And so.
And there's a lot of thingsthat don't necessarily get talked
through now.
Those classes might lookdifferent today than they did, you
know, 26 years ago.
But the point is, I definitelyknow people over the years who.
They got married, and rightoff the bat, there was.
There was trouble.
Right.
And so one couple that I knew,and I don't remember if they were
(06:58):
Christian, this was a longtime ago.
They were friends of friends,but it didn't even last, like two
months because the husbandwasn't used to the wife.
They both worked full time andhe didn't.
He was used to his mom doingeverything for him.
And so when she wanted him tocome in, in a partnership, he could,
he couldn't.
He didn't even have the wordsto communicate and how to work through
(07:18):
that.
And that's maybe an extremeexample in just one little way.
But I think that's the pointis we go into it and we haven't discussed
all the things always.
But this marriage game plan,no matter what point of marriage
we're in, because you're help.
This can help anybody.
Right.
Whether you're just gettingmarried or about to, or whether you've
been married for 20 or 30 ormore years.
So what would you just say,like, whether you're new or you've
(07:41):
been married, but you'restarting to see some fissures.
You know, some things aren'tquite lined up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's one thing to get married.
It's a whole nother thing tobe married and to stay married.
And sometimes people thinkjust because I got married or just
because we're in love, it'sgoing to just work out.
(08:02):
But it's.
It's about learning how tobecome one.
Right.
Learning how to make yourmarriage work.
And every marriage is uniqueand different in its own way.
I mean, it's going to bedifferent from your parents marriage,
your friend's marriage, butyou, too, have to realize that it's
about figuring it out.
(08:25):
So.
And that's what happened withGeorge and I.
This is why we started ourmarriage ministry Journey for Life
is because we like to saywe're pictures of God, God's grace.
Like, we did not know what wewere doing.
We were just doing.
We were just being haphazard, right?
Working out marriagehaphazardly with no plan.
(08:45):
And we didn't realize howdifferent we really were and how
those things were going towork against us becoming one.
And so we, you know, we just.
Like I said, we're pictures ofGod's grace.
We just wanted to.
Once God helped us figure outhow to make our marriage work, we
just wanted to help as manycouples as we can.
(09:07):
Because it's not somethingthat's intuitive, is something that
you educate yourself, youlearn, you grow, you develop skills.
It's not about just whatyou've experienced, but it's.
It's not about you just makingyour spouse do everything the way
you're comfortable with, butit's about how do.
What do we want to take fromour experiences, our backgrounds,
(09:30):
and why do we want to createour way?
Not my way, not his way, butour way, our unique way.
And a lot of times couples,you know, don't want, you know, it's
the resistance to change.
So true.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
So, okay, I know one of themain first things that you have people
you walk people through is thebig thing, the hierarchy thing, or
(09:52):
I mean, the highest thing,which is kind of having.
Setting a vision and a missionfor your marriage, just like we might
do for our career or if youown a business.
But, you know, I know you talkabout in the book, we should really
have that for every.
Like, you should have that fordifferent parts of your life, but
definitely for your marriage.
So what would you just say topeople that, yeah, yeah, what would
you say?
About that.
(10:13):
Yeah, definitely.
For your marriage.
I like to say marriage is oneof the most important institutions
that you will be a part of.
And we know in otherinstitutions we have to get coaching,
we have to read, we have toget education, we have to put the
work in, we have to do allthese things to be successful.
But a lot of times people feellike with marriage, you don't have
(10:36):
to put those things in, but Ifeel like you really do, because
out of all the things that'sgoing to live beyond you, the legacy
that you're going to leave isgoing to be through how you loved
each other, how you.
What your kids observed, whatyour grandkids observed, what the
community observed about your family.
(10:59):
So marriage requires no lesseffort, no less energy.
And we don't want to be makingassumptions about our plan.
We don't want to behaphazardly doing our plan.
We want to be intentionalabout what legacy we want to leave.
And that starts at the beginning.
(11:19):
And then, you know, thatstarts with you having a vision,
having a mission statement andworking towards that end game picture.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
It's so powerful.
So I want to start at thebeginning, the bit beginning being.
We.
We all bring in our backgrounds.
Right.
(11:39):
Somebody might call itbaggage, whatever word you want to
use, but it's, it's everythingprior to that marriage, you know,
you becoming, you know, onecomes with you.
Right.
To some extent.
And like you said, we all havewalked a different path in life up
to that point.
So what can you share with us?
Because I think it's definitely.
We don't always realize in anyrelationship, but especially marriage,
(12:03):
that the way maybe our parentwas with us, the way that something
happened to us or someone saidsomething to us, we don't realize
that we bring in thosemessages, those patterns, whatever
it might be, into ourmarriage, and then we're having problems
maybe, and we don't realizeit's because.
(12:24):
Not because of us or ourspouses necessarily, but because
we didn't realize we'rebringing this forward.
So how do you help people withthose types of things or what do
you recommend to them?
Yes, yes, I like to helppeople with those things because
you have to ask certainquestions to each other, provoking
questions about how thingsshaped you.
(12:46):
What did that mean for you?
How did this impact you?
You know, what's the story inyour head surrounding that particular
thing?
And those are just the deeperquestions to kind of bring those
subconscious things out into a.
Into the conscious mind, intoa conversation.
(13:09):
And it helps you get to knoweach other on a deeper level.
And it helps you know whatyour relationship dynamics are.
The more you can know whatthey are, the, the more empowered
you are to get a game plan ora strategy or just so your spouse
knows how important certainthings are because, you know, they're
(13:30):
filling some, some gaps inyour background or your past.
So.
Yeah, so it's, it's thoseconversations, deep questions that's
just, you know, one of thechapters in our book gives you a,
a list of questions to reallygo deep.
And in it, to go deep withyour spouse, you actually have to
(13:50):
do that your own individual self.
When George and I were firstmarried, I didn't realize these unconscious
things that were playing outin our marriage.
And we were just in thesegridlock type of conversations.
And I just remember saying,what is it about this scenario that
(14:13):
just pushes my buttons?
And I had to do kind of a moreintrospection of what it is.
And it just helped me uncoverlike there were some things from
my past that this circumstancewas triggering those things.
And I was responding based offof a past circumstances and not my
(14:37):
present circumstances.
And so that was veryempowering for me to, to learn that
and empowering for George toeven know that.
And then it helped us get onthe same page about how we want to
navigate those type ofcircumstances going forward.
And I would imagine that for alot of people that work, if they've
never done that kind of work, is.
(14:58):
It's probably hard to pullthat out even of yourself or to.
Right.
I would, I would think that insome cases that's not going to just
be, oh, okay, I have thesequestions and it's going to come
forth that may take some realmining for some time or sitting on
that for a while, I would guess.
Yes, absolutely.
There have been differentperiods of time in our lives where
(15:23):
we had to get professional help.
We've gone to conferences.
I know in the first beginningwhen we were trying to get out of
our stuck place place and ourdark place in our marriage, we went
to the same conference sevenyears consecutively in a row.
No new content.
(15:43):
But we were just establishingthe discipline of working on our
marriage and getting outsideof it and looking at it objectively.
And so we just wanted to havea habit of that, a discipline of
that, but it was no new content.
We were just trying to findone thing, one new thing to implement
(16:03):
in our marriage each time we went.
And so we've gone to so manycounselors and individual as a couple.
And it.
So yes, it's, it's A.
It's a deep work depending on where.
What your background has been.
And it.
And it takes some combing andmining those things to bring them
(16:26):
to the surface.
So.
So that you and your spousecan both be attacking that issue
together as a team and notbeing solo in.
In your marriage.
Yeah, well, and I love thatyou brought up just the going to
the marriage conferences, youknow, working with people, because
sometimes I think in, in anyaspect of our life, but especially
(16:48):
in this way, getting out ofyour environment can even just let
you see things differently.
Like you may, you know, justmaybe observing the other married
couples, like stuff will clickwith you when you just take yourself
to a different place sometimes.
Right.
As a couple even.
And so, you know, while thatwasn't your main point of going,
I think it.
It is a point becausesometimes we can get stuck in a rut
(17:11):
for whatever reason and if wedon't do something a little different.
Right.
Have a new experience or golook for a new perspective, you know,
or what's.
What am I noticing this year,right, at the conference the next
time?
So I think that that's stuffthat's great.
Yeah, I think, I think you hita key part of it too.
It's sometimes we.
(17:31):
This is what I always say.
We're up close and personal inour relationship, and sometimes that's
all we can like, focus on.
And sometimes just having anew environment turns you outward
to focus on other things.
And it's equally as powerful to.
To hear that you're not theonly couple.
(17:51):
When you go away and you'rearound other couples, peers, as well
as the leaders on stageteaching, it's like, oh, wow, like
this is normal.
It's not unique to us.
We're gonna get through this.
There is hope, you know, andjust hearing other people's stories
and journeys that cannormalize some of the struggles that
(18:12):
you're having, which reallyhelps breathe hope and life into
you.
And when you have hope in.
In a situation, you work atsomething differently than when you
feel hopeless.
So.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So good.
Okay.
So some of the things that Iseem to notice, and I obviously am
not a rel relationship coach,but just with, you know, having a
(18:35):
lot of married friends andbeing married a long time is some
of two of the big things seemto be that it's our communication
or not ever having learned howto communicate in the.
The best way possible.
Right.
In a marriage.
And so the communication slashconflict resolution.
So I'd love to talk about whatdo you just see whether it was in
(18:56):
your own marriage when you'veworked with people right in their
relationships.
And then I think the other oneis the difficulty we sometimes have
with connecting or knowing howto stay connected.
So I'd love your thoughts onboth of those things.
Yeah, yeah.
So we're different and God.
And that's intentional God.
(19:18):
God loves diversity.
He is so creative.
Like we have no twofingerprints are the same.
You know, he's just unique.
No two snowflakes are the same.
Like God is all aboutuniqueness and diversity.
And that's a beautiful,beautiful thing.
Now the challenge is how doyou take these two God designed individuals
(19:44):
and now God calls them tobecome one in marriage.
And I do think that is a bigchallenge in the communication is
that we're both different andwe're both unique, which we, which
we wish isn't a mistake.
But figuring out how the twodifferent people, people, different
(20:04):
personalities, different styles.
I mean, George and I are so different.
Down to minor things likebeing on time to places.
It's like I grew up where youcould be 15 minutes fashionably late.
He grew up, his dad raised himto be 15 minutes early.
(20:25):
And we didn't even know thatwe were coming in with that.
Right.
But we would get into what wecall fights, intense fellowship.
So we would get into theseintense fellowship moments when it's
time to go somewhere and wecouldn't figure out why are we struggling
or why are we getting in anargument, going on a date night or
(20:47):
going to a Valentine's event.
But having these,communicating about even the smallest
things that you are feelingthat friction about can get clarity.
So you know, we, so just in apractical sense, George was like,
oh, when someone says 10 o'clock, in my mind, I'm moving towards
(21:08):
being there at 9:45.
And I'm like, oh, now thatmakes sense.
Because when someone says itstarts at 10, I'm saying, oh, I have
until 10:15 to be there.
So that's like a 30 minutewindow difference.
And we are not heading towardsthe same goal.
We're pulling each other inthe opposite direction.
(21:29):
So even just pausing andslowing down, intense fellowships
or interactions enough to tryto understand and ask the question
I'm trying to understand, whatdoes this mean to you?
What do you have in your mindright now?
Or what are you thinking aboutthis topic?
And then you'll be surprisedat the enlightenment of, oh, that's
(21:51):
why we're having a, you know,intense moments over these things.
So slowing down theconversation, asking more questions
of clarity and being curiousabout what's going on in each other's
heads is some practical thingsthat we can do to help improve our
communication and connectionis about being on that same page
(22:11):
and understanding each otherin a deeper way.
That's so good.
Yeah.
And I, I would just maybe addto that that it's also not over communicating
but to your point, like whenwe're about to go somewhere, my husband
and I maybe to an event, I'llsay, okay, well I want to, I want
to leave at this time.
Like I don't say what timewe're getting there.
(22:31):
I tell him what time I want toleave because I know and it's not.
He's usually an on timeperson, but I definitely am.
But sometimes he'll be doing aproject right around the house or
somewhere else.
And so he'll be pushing theedge to when he gets a shower based
on when he thinks we're leaving.
So if I told him when I wantto get there, he'll be like, oh,
(22:51):
we can get there in 15 minuteseven if it's 23 minute drive.
And I'm like, no, that's why Ihave to tell him when we're leaving
because that's when my expectation.
But if I just said oh well,the party's at 6 and we would be
late and it's not because heintends to, it's because he's trying
to do as many things as he canin that day up until we have to be
somewhere.
So.
(23:11):
Right.
It's kind of that really clearon what is your expectation.
And I don't mean we alwaysmeet each other's expectations.
Exactly.
But it's.
If you're not clear on yourexpectation, then it's like unlikely
to get met.
Exactly.
And like you were saying, likewe, it's not that either of us have
(23:32):
to meet each other's expectations.
Where we have to meet iscoming up with our own way that we're
going to do it.
So you take a little bit ofGeorge and a little bit of Tandra
and then you come up with ourway just using the example that I
was just talking about.
So George gave up the right tobe 15 minutes early, I gave up the
(23:54):
right to be 15 minutes late.
And we came up with the agreedupon strategy of being on time on
the dot in a little tweak likethat where you're, you know, we're
not forcing each other to dothings the way the other one does,
but we are both willing tosacrifice to meet on something that
(24:17):
we can agree on and work Towards.
And I always say everybody hasto give up something for the sake
of unity.
For unity to take place.
Sacrifice is a part ofreaching unity.
And you've got to be willingto sacrifice so that you can get
an agreed upon strategy.
Oh, that's so true.
I mean, marriage is so muchabout compromise, but doing it from
(24:40):
a servant's heart, I think.
Right.
It's, it's, it's doing it outof a place of love, not because I
have to compromise all the time.
Right.
Because you know you're goingto compromise sometimes what you
would have really liked to door whatever.
And then there's other timeswhere as long as you're both giving,
they're compromising for you.
Maybe something inactivitythat wasn't their favorite.
Right.
Because it is going to be alittle bit of a give and a take.
(25:02):
So.
That's so true.
Absolutely.
And like you said, you have tohear each other.
Because even about the timing thing.
Absolutely.
Like, if my husband said tome, like, oh, well, there's no way
I can be ready or have anevent until then, of course we talk
about, well, when can we go?
And then I would text thepeople that invited us and let them
know.
Right.
In other words, it's not likeit has to be what I said it was,
that he would tell me.
(25:23):
Well, hold on, I don't thinkthat's going to work.
Right.
And then we'd have a conversation.
Yeah.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
If you hadn't have verbalizedanything, that would have left you
guys in an assumption statewhich ends in frustration.
So.
Yes.
About clarity getting outsideof our heads.
Absolutely.
Yes.
I'm the world's worst thinginside my head, so that's something
(25:45):
I had to learn to get outsidemy head.
Yeah.
So what about, you know, whatdo you see with couples you work
with with the importance of usconnecting, you know, either going
on dates or just doing things together.
And then of course, makingsure that there's some level of intimacy.
However we define that, youknow, in the particular marriage.
(26:06):
Yes.
Oh, I definitely think havingrhythms already established and,
and being faithful to thoserhythms because life is so demanding,
there's so much pressure on color.
They're getting pulled in somany directions.
And if you're not and createthe rhythm and to make room in your
(26:33):
calendar for these rhythms andhonoring the rhythms, then before
you know what, life has justdemanded your calendar and you back
and say, whoa, we haven't beenon a date in three months.
How did this happen?
You know, But I feel like ifyou can be intentional and carve
that time out and plan aroundit because it's just as important
(26:54):
as any other meeting, anyother activity, any other.
Sporting.
Events or kids thing.
It's.
It's just as important as allkeep putting it on the back burner.
Because the best gift you cangive your kids is a healthy marriage,
a balanced perspective ofprioritizing your marriage for them,
(27:17):
because that's how they'relearning how they're supposed to
be treated and what they wantto expect in their marriages.
You know, is is true thing forus to set the stage for that?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, I. I definitely talkedto people over the years when I had
younger kids.
I mean, mine are all now, youknow, 18 to 23.
(27:38):
So not little kids anymore.
They're adults.
But I remember when they wereyounger, like some people might say,
like, well, we don't have ababysitter or we don't have, you
know, okay, and that mighthappen, Right.
But you just get creative.
For instance, you might say,once the kids go to bed, we're going
to have date night in the house.
Right.
And just set up an area tohave time together so it doesn't
have to be some elaboratething always.
Or go spend a lot of money,because there's going to be times
(28:00):
where that might not work foryou, but it's the commitment of we're
going to not work at all hours always.
We're not going to write.
It's going to have.
It's setting boundaries, butthen also setting time right for
the relationship.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
When our kids were smaller.
Yeah, it takes so much morejuggling and you can just talk yourself
(28:22):
out of it because there's somuch work, so much money, so much
effort.
But during those times, youknow, kids don't know is what bedtime,
you know, what time is their bedtime.
So George and I used to, onour date nights, put the kids to
bed a little early because Iget sleepy soon.
(28:43):
So we had to start a littleearly because I'm not a night person.
But we would tuck them in thebed early, close the blinds, and
then we would just.
George, while I was tuckingin, he would run and pick up food
and bring it back or vice versa.
And that works while they're little.
And then I remember my son, he.
(29:05):
He's the oldest, and hestarted to say, when I would say
it's bedtime, he'd be like,but it.
But the sun is still out.
How could it possibly be bedtime?
I was like, okay, we need anew Strategy.
So.
So we started what we callpillow talk, and that's getting in
the bed after we tuck thekids, getting in the bed a little
early because George and Ihave different times that we go to
(29:27):
bed and get up, but we wouldget in the bed and just 10 or 15
minutes and just bond andcatch up with each other's day.
So it's really not thequantity as much as it is the quality
of time.
So, and.
And the intentionality.
So I would say the quality oftime and just being intentional and
(29:48):
making sure you find times tointersect your lives or not.
If not, then you're justgrowing parallel, like doing parallel
lives, but you're growing apart.
Because through all of theselife ups and downs and changes, we're
changing.
So we're either going to begrowing towards each other, growing
(30:09):
with each other, or we'regoing to be growing away from each
other.
Right?
Absolutely.
So let me ask you, what wouldyou say, in a more general sense
is the biggest struggle orroadblocks that couples tend to get
stuck up on?
You know, like, where do weget stuck in marriage?
I know it's different foreverybody, you know, whatever, in
different seasons.
But.
But in general, where is maybeone or two of the bigger patterns?
(30:33):
You see that.
That people kind of need helpto get unstuck?
Yeah, I feel like.
I mean, in my line of work, I'm.
I'm working with people whoare really stuck.
Right.
And they've been stuck andthey've developed a pattern of stuckness
that I need to help them unravel.
So it may not be as intensefor people who aren't feeling as
(30:55):
stuck.
Right.
But for the most part, I feellike learning how to have tough conversations
in their relationship.
You know, one of our chaptersis called Tips for Tackling Tough
Conversations because a lot ofcouples do get stuck in.
How do we have this conversation?
(31:17):
And especially we might havegrown up in different households
where, you know, maybe there'sa household you grow up in where
you don't talk.
Talk about tough conversations.
You don't talk about theelephant in the room, you tiptoe
around it and you ignore it.
Or you might have grown up ina household where we just hit, you
(31:38):
know, tackle it head on, andwe are just being reckless and, and
just going after that elephantwith a.
With a.
With, I don't know, a ton, ton truck.
Right.
And so sometimes we avoidtough conversations because we don't
know how to handle them or ifwe get involved in them, how do we.
(31:59):
How do we know how to get outof it or how do we move past it?
What do I do once I bring upthis topic and it goes and it gets
intense.
So I feel like that's a stuckplace that couples really need kind
of some steps in which to howto bring it up and how to talk about
it, how to bring it to resolveand move forward.
(32:21):
And so just a couple of thetips that we talk about is just nipping
in, nip it in the bud is the,is one of the most profound things.
It seems small, but if wedon't go ahead and just talk about
it and bring it up is onlygoing to compound, build up, seeping
(32:41):
out in ways that we can'tcontrol anymore.
So, so first of all, don'tkeep putting it off.
Go ahead and plan a time totalk about it and you can plan a
time.
That's another practical stepis you don't want to blind side each
other with the tough conversation.
(33:02):
Tough conversation is usuallya hot, hot topic.
There's a lot of emotions involved.
That's what makes it a tough conversation.
So, so bringing it uprecklessly at a time at, at the wrong
time.
You know, like we're thinkingwe're getting ready to get into bed
and go to sleep and then youbring up, you know, it's not going
to go well.
So you want to set it up forsuccess and picking the appropriate
(33:27):
time.
Agree.
Both of us agree on the timeand knowing that this is we're going
to tackle together.
I love, he used to say all thetime, I have something I need to
talk to you about.
And it's going to be a tough conversation.
And I like that because itprepared me.
(33:47):
It's like, okay, I know thisis going to be a tough conversation.
Let me put my big girl pantson and let me sit here and not get
offended, not get defensive,but really try to hear his heart
because it's tough because hedoesn't want to hurt me.
He wants, wants to handle itwith care.
So it puts you in the rightmind and the right perspective.
So those are just a fewpractical things that can help with
(34:10):
one of the big places that alot of couples are get, get stuck
in.
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I, that makes so much senseto me.
And I would also say just thisis, this is a small piece of that.
But I think it's very easy inour conversations.
We can misconstrue each other sometimes.
Right.
You know, maybe the tone waswrong and you didn't realize because
(34:32):
you were tired or it's a hardconversation and it's easy to get
defensive.
Right is the point.
And even if we don't mean to,and even if we know the person's
coming with us, trying to beconsiderate, we can still get, like,
defensive or snippy.
So how do you just guidecouples through that?
(34:53):
Because it is hard to, like,hang up that defensiveness feeling
and walk through the conversation.
Yes.
And what I tell couples iswhen you feel yourself being, being
aware of what you're feelingand when you feel yourself getting
to a place of defensiveness orbeing offended or hurt or escalated.
(35:20):
Sometimes we go into fight or flight.
We want to call a, a timeout,and we want to calm that down.
Because what happens when webecome very emotional in the conversation,
it shuts down the part of thebrain that gives you the logic, which
is the solution, focus part.
(35:40):
Because we're talking aboutthis, because we want a resolution
about it.
And we can never get thatresolution if we keep escalating
to the place and gettingoffended and defend, you know, offensive,
offended and defensive andsending ourselves into fight or flight.
We have to take the pause, saytime out.
(36:02):
You have to have an agreedupon pause, though.
You can't just shut down andjust be like, I'm out.
Yeah, but it's communicatingthat pause.
Hey, like, I can feel myselfreally escalating right now.
This isn't going to be helpfulmoving forward.
So let's take a timeout.
Now, whoever calls thetimeout, the other partner has to
(36:26):
let that person have the time out.
Right.
Because I do find that, yes,it, you know, it's just like, no,
no, we got to finish this.
Don't walk out on me.
You know, and that's why thecommunication of the timeout is so
important.
It lets that person know, I'mnot abandoning you.
This is important.
I'm hanging in here with youand I value it.
(36:47):
So that's why I need this timeout so that I can go and calm, calm
down.
And the person who is takingthe time out, this is not your get
out of jail free pass, becauseI know, oh, yes, I got out of that.
Hopefully he'll forget orshe'll forget and we'll just know
I won't have to have that conversation.
I say your timeouts should beabout 15 minutes, no longer than
(37:13):
30 minutes.
And you are actively calmingyourself down and you are coming
back.
And that's how your spouse cansay, all right, they're not abandoning
me.
They're not abandoning this conversation.
They're going to come backshortly, and then we're going to
resume the conversation.
But.
But in that timeout, youdefinitely need to be de.
Escalating yourself,remembering what's important, keeping
(37:36):
the big picture in mind,knowing that the intention of their
heart is not to harm us oroffend us or attack us, you know,
and vice versa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would guess that if thisis an area which it would not be
surprising for most, a lot ofcouples, like that conflict resolution
or those hard conversations, Ishould say it's, you know, reading
the books or going and gettinghelp to help you get better at that
(38:01):
communication skill set.
Because it is a skill.
Right.
And it does take work,especially if both of you have different
ways you approach conflict.
My husband and I absolutelyhave different ways of approaching
it.
So we have to be reallycareful because it can easily.
He can be somebody where Ijust want to bring something up and
he wants to shut down, youknow, so it's just.
It's just because of how wewere raised different, you know what
(38:23):
I mean?
So we have to be reallycareful about that, you know, and
sometimes I just want to.
You know, I'm a woman.
I'm more that way.
Like, I want to talk somethingthrough, and he doesn't always.
And so I have to rememberwhere he's coming from sometimes
and give him a little time andspace sometimes.
Right.
Or whatever.
Maybe opposite.
(38:43):
He has to do somethingdifferent for me.
But so, yeah, I mean,sometimes we just have to go say,
like, how can we do better, right.
At going through this?
Like you said, if it'ssomebody that can never seem to come,
like, they're always needingtimeouts, and they can't really,
I guess, come and get thatresolution, like you said.
Exactly, exactly.
And.
(39:04):
And it's also about talkingabout how we talk, too.
Like you, it's.
Right.
I know we always talk aboutthe issue, but we also can talk about
how we communicate togetherand come up with a strategy.
Because George and I areopposite of your husband.
I'm internal.
(39:25):
He's the one that's got toprocess it in the moment, out loud,
verbally.
And I just stay in my head,get my own self together, and then
I'm done, you know?
But again, that's wheresacrifice comes into play.
No one gets to have it their way.
And we always joke, George andI say, if you want it your way, you
got to go to Burger King.
(39:46):
That's their slogan.
You can get your Whopperanywhere you want it.
Right.
But what am I willing to giveup about the way that I'm comfortable
resolving conflict?
Because it's not about forcingthe spouse to adopt your way.
But here's another area ofsacrifice where it's like, you have
(40:06):
to talk about how youcommunicate and get to a resolution,
an agreeable.
A mutually agreeable resolution.
And so that's why George says,okay, I can allow you that time to
be internal.
But I also, in order to dothat, I need you to let me know when
you're coming back.
Right.
So that, you know, you canhave your time, but I can also have
(40:29):
the way I find closure.
You can have the way you findclosure, but don't keep me from the
way I find closure, you know?
Oh, yeah.
So good.
So what would you just sharewith us about, you know, the God
being at the center of ourmarriage and why that is so powerful
and important?
(40:49):
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, God created marriage sohe knows how.
How it's supposed to work,what we're supposed to get out of
it, how to be successful at it.
So God being the center is akey component.
It's like our iPhones, right?
Like, if we don't.
If we don't go back to thecreator to figure out, well, what.
(41:11):
What.
What's this design?
What's all the capabilitiesthis can do?
And then we'll never reallyget the full potential of the iPhone
if we don't go back to thecreator of that iPhone and figure
it out and the benefits andall the things that it's going to
challenge us with and help us with.
So going back and keeping Godat the center and making sure that
(41:33):
he.
You're seeking him for, well,what did you create marriage for?
What am I supposed to get outof it?
How is it supposed to grow me?
How is this supposed to.
Supposed to help me?
And then this is how we learnto get out of it, what God has.
Has created it for now theworld has its way.
(41:53):
Oh, but it's not a lot oftimes not aligned with the biblical
way.
Sometimes it's countercultural.
But I know in the world, youknow, in the world, it's about our
secular, like, our happiness, right.
Do you find that person thatmakes you happy?
And.
And all of this is all aboutyour happiness.
(42:13):
But if you look at it throughGod's eye is really about your sacrifice
being made more in the imageof Him.
And this person is supposed tochallenge us.
We're supposed to grow inGod's nature and character, and we're
supposed to pass that on toour children.
How do you forgive?
How do you sacrifice?
(42:34):
How do you have longsuffering,patience, kindness all the fruits
of God's spirit and his nature.
But marriage is where itstarts, and then it's reflected to
our children from generationto generation.
Yeah, absolutely.
So good.
Okay.
So what would you just want toshare with us?
Just about all therelationship coaching you do from
(42:56):
the book.
Whatever you want to share,just that we haven't covered yet.
That you would just love to,you know, speak or encourage of the
listeners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we are so excited aboutthis book.
We have poured our heart andsoul into this book.
We feel like God has beenwriting this book through our marriage
for.
For the last 30 years.
(43:16):
And just to have everythingcome together in this book is just.
We.
We're just out, you know,outside of ourselves.
But what we're really excitedabout is this book is not just you're
just not going to be reading,but we have a Putting it into practice
section at the end of eachchapter where you will then apply
(43:38):
what we were just talking about.
You will begin to work on thatspecific area.
And at the end of everychapter is a QR code that you will
scan to receive coaching fromGeorge and I on that particular chapter
as well.
And what couples will besurprised about is that as they're
reading, doing the putting itinto practice sections, doing the
(44:01):
virtual coaching, they'regoing to be writing their unique
marriage game plan.
And by the time they get tochapter 10, it will put everything
together for them that theycan take away and continue to refer
back to it as needed andadjust as needed as life happens.
But it's a very interactivebook and is really.
(44:23):
Its goal is to really give youa game plan for your marriage, your
unique marriage.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Absolutely.
I mean, that.
That makes it, you know, justsuch a more powerful tool.
Right.
Like you said, that it's.
Because at the end of the day,it is each per.
Each couple's own game plan.
Right.
For their marriage.
(44:43):
And they are all differentbecause, like you said at the beginning,
we're all uniquely made andeven each spouse.
Right.
And so, so good.
So let me ask you this.
What is filling you up, youknow, as you're busy in the season
of promoting the book andworking with clients and everything
else?
Well, I feel like what'sfilling me up in this season is living
(45:06):
on mission right now.
I, you know, I kind of put mycareer kind of on the back burner
to, you know, be a mom, be awife, be supportive, raise my kids,
just be fully present.
And that was important to me.
And I was very.
It filled me up.
(45:28):
I grew up with A single mom,she didn't.
She could.
She didn't have the sameopportunities that I was having to
be very present with my kids.
And that filled me up in that season.
And now that my kids arelaunched and they're on their own,
I. I feel like living onmission with that God has called
me to is so full fulfillingright now for this part of my life.
(45:52):
And I'm just so surprised athow life giving it is and energizing
it is.
And I just want to be a goodsteward over this second half of
my life.
And it's really filling me up.
It's bringing out new thingsthat I didn't know I had in me that
was saved up for such a timeas this.
And so, yeah, so it's reallyencouraging that God has a plan for
(46:16):
us.
If we keep him first and makesure we do it in his order, he's
always got the plan.
You're not missing out.
You're not missing a beat.
He will put you right whereyou're supposed to be at that right
time.
Absolutely.
All right, can you share withus, where can people find out more
about the book and all theother ways that you're working with
(46:37):
people?
Yes.
So you can find the MarriageGame Plan in.
In your favorite online bookstore.
Amazon is very popular, so alot of people get.
Get it from Amazon.
And also our marriage ministryis called Journey for Life.
Our website is journey forlife now.org and that's where you'll
find the Marriage Game Plan,our book also other resources we
(47:01):
have.
We do relationship coaching,individual coaching, grand group
coaching, all these aspects.
And we are launching theMarriage Game Plan podcast this week.
So we'll also be giving tipsand talking about relationship.
All things marriage andrelationships on the podcast as well.
Oh, I love that.
(47:22):
I can't wait for that to come out.
That'll definitely be anotherextension of how you can, you know,
just encourage couples intheir walk of being married.
So I love it.
Well, thank you for joining ustoday for sharing your heart, for
sharing the wisdom that you'vegained over 30 years of marriage
and then over all the yearsthat you or and your husband have
worked with people in theirown marriages.
(47:43):
And yeah, I just.
I just pray that this will,you know, bless and give some people
that, like you said, that hopethat we can all have stronger, really
beautiful marriages.
Even if right now it feelslike we're stuck in some way, there
is hope.
God can do all things.
We just have to go and do thework, you know, go to him with it
(48:05):
and so, yeah, I just thank youfor coming on, joining us today.
Yes.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you for giving aplatform for women to come and share
their faith and their journey.
And I really appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
Okay.
As we wrap up today's episode,I wanted to share a scripture with
you.
And then just one idea.
So the scriptures fromEphesians 4, 31, 32, which says,
(48:30):
banish bitterness, rage andanger, shouting and slander and any
and all malicious thoughts.
These are poison.
Instead, be kind andcompassionate, graciously forgive
one another just as God hasforgiven you.
And while that might not havebeen written specifically about marriage,
what good advice, especiallyin our marriages.
(48:50):
And so I also wanted to sharejust a quick idea with you from the
devotional by Michelle Peterson.
It's called a couple'sdevotional, and it says, I thought
my marriage would be arelationship with this man whom I
fell in love with.
I thought we'd hang out andmake out and see what became of our
lives together.
Instead, my marriage hasbecome a sanctuary.
(49:12):
Marriage is a holy place, andnothing holy can be experienced without
transformation.
And I hope from today'sconversation, today's interview,
I hope that what you got fromthis is it's all about transformation,
right?
It's coming together.
It's learning to communicate.
It's learning to compromise.
(49:32):
It's learning to work together.
It's learning to put ourspouse first.
It's learning to put God inthe middle of our marriage.
And so it's all abouttransforming our hearts.
It's about transforming twopeople, right, who have two different
backgrounds, two differentexperiences, and transforming them
(49:53):
into one married couple.
In working through marriage,there's going to be different seasons.
There's going to be differentthings we have to walk through.
Some are going to be hard ordevastating, and some are just going
to feel like seasons wheremaybe marriage feels more stagnant
or maybe we need to getprofessional help.
(50:14):
Whatever you're walkingthrough, just remember it is about
having a vision and a gameplan for a marriage.
And as we grow and mature overthe decades, that game plan is going
to be added to, edited,altered, potentially.
And so I hope today'sconversation just blesses your marriage.
(50:34):
I hope that there are sometidbits that you can take away.
And definitely if you'resomebody that's looking for more
relational and marriageguidance, then definitely check out
the new podcast, the MarriageGame Plan or the Marriage Game Plan
book that Tondra and herhusband wrote.
Thanks again for listening tothe show and if you enjoyed today's
episode.
(50:54):
We would love it if you couldtake a minute to leave a rating and
review on Apple podcastbecause it helps our show get discovered
by more people.
Hi and welcome to Faithfield Woman.
This is your host, Kristen.
Today in the podcast we aretalking about marriage and we are
going to talk about the bookthe Marriage Game Plan and why we
need a game plan for ourmarriages and how that can strengthen
and build our marriages so wecan navigate differences, we can
navigate conflict resolution,we can learn how to communicate clearer
(00:22):
and that we can just show upin our marriages to serve one another
and to build a legacy together.
Hey friend, are you cravingdeeper faith, renewed purpose and
more joy in your everyday life?
Welcome to Faith Filled Womanpodcast that helps Christian women
grow spiritually pursue God'scalling and embrace the abundant
life he has for you.
I'm Kristen, an encourager,mentor, entrepreneur, wife and mom,
(00:47):
here to uplift, equip andinspire you with faith filled conversations
and biblical wisdom.
Subscribe now so you nevermiss an episode and join our faith
fueled community for more encouragement.
Hi.
Today on the podcast I wouldlike to welcome our guest, Tondra
Gregory.
She is relationship coach.
She's a licensed mental health counselor.
(01:08):
She is a mother of two youngadult children.
Her and her husband also workwith the NFL.
They help counsel and ourchaplains currently for the, let's
see, is it the LA Los Angeles Chargers?
She actually does the workwith the women alongside her husband
and they used to do themarriage ministry at Saddleback Church.
(01:28):
They're involved in so muchand they've just released a book
in July called the MarriageGame Plan.
It is developing a winningstrategy for marital success.
And I'm excited to have thisconversation today because much like
her, I've been married almostas long.
I've been married for 26 yearsand I think they're married just
over 30.
And you know, so I've beenthrough, you know, decades of being
(01:51):
married.
And so I love that they'rehelping couples, married couples
from where at every pointthey're at, to really look at their
marriage as something thatneeds a game plan, that they look
at the marriage that it's,it's continuously changing and it
has to be around aconversation and what we're putting
into it.
And so I hope thisconversation will encourage you to,
(02:14):
you know, just get in therewith your marriage and get going
to make it the best it can be.
Because we all know when wehave strong marriages and strong
families, that is the backboneof what makes, you know, the world
strong.
Because we can, you know, wedon't have more broken families.
So I love it.
So, Tundra, welcome to the show.
You so much for having me.
(02:35):
Oh my gosh, you Guys areworking with so many people in different
capacities, but in most cases,it's too.
You help them win life and winin their marriage.
And so can you just share withus a little bit about life and about
what you're up to now in the book?
Okay.
I am life right now.
(02:55):
I am being stretched beyond mycomfort zone.
Way beyond my comfort zone.
And so, you know, in theBible, when it talks about Jesus
called Peter out the boat, Ifeel like I'm out the boat and I
am trying to fight from sinking.
So that's.
That's what's going on right now.
(03:16):
And that is coming through.
Being authors, this is ourfirst marriage book that we've written
together.
This is my first book thatI've ever written.
And just, I was thinking,okay, the hard part is going to be
just writing this book.
But then the book opens up awhole nother realm of more speaking
(03:41):
engagements and interviews andall of these things.
So I just feel like, yes, liferight now, I'm in a stretching season
outside of my comfort zone.
You know, what I love aboutthat is we're supposed to be obedient
and do the work that we'recalled to do.
And you guys felt on yourheart not just to do the work with
(04:02):
couples, but to actually putthis book out there.
So people that don't work withyou directly, directly always have
this resource, this tool.
But what I love about that isso often when we actually take the
step in obedience, God willgive us even more.
Right.
So like you said, the book isonly the another part of your story,
and then from that he'll useit to even do so many more things.
(04:24):
Absolutely.
I love it, but it's a stretch,but I get it.
It's because you're growinginto even more opportunities.
That's wonderful.
Absolutely.
I love that.
Okay, so your book came out, Ithink, the first of July.
And you know, you know, thegist is obviously it is supposed
to be this book that helpspeople walk through these different
(04:46):
things, that if we.
We don't, we don't just readabout the examples and the scripture
basis for it, but then we'reto apply it and actually make it
our own, Right?
Absolutely.
What would you just tell us about?
Why do we need a marriage plan?
First of all?
Yes.
We need a marriage game planbecause, you know, after we get married,
(05:06):
you know, and the happily everafter wears off.
Because it does, because lifeis happening and, you know, we're
going to hit challenges andseasons of struggle, may not be in
your marriage directly, but itcould be just, you're in a season
of struggle, health issues,having children, all those things,
career changes.
And so after the dust settles,we actually need to make sure that
(05:31):
we've locked in a game plan onhow we want to navigate all of the
challenges and the ups anddowns and the twists and turns that
life brings our way.
Because we don't have controlover what life brings at us, but
we do have control over how wereact, how we respond, our perspective
that we're going to have.
(05:52):
So a game plan.
Having a game plan puts thecouple on the same page, heading
in the same direction, whichallows for that teamwork.
And it's.
It's being proactive versusreactive, knowing, okay, life is
going to come at us.
Here's how we work besttogether, here's what each of us
want to do to make sure thatwe are on the same page, moving in
(06:14):
the same direction.
So true.
Yeah.
I mean, obviously I've beenmarried a while, so, you know, it
was a while ago we werethinking about this, and I know I
took.
Maybe, maybe we went through,like a faith.
What is it called when you dothe prior to marriage classes?
Premature class.
Yeah, I remember doing that,but even that, it was only scratching
(06:36):
the surface.
Right.
And so.
And there's a lot of thingsthat don't necessarily get talked
through now.
Those classes might lookdifferent today than they did, you
know, 26 years ago.
But the point is, I definitelyknow people over the years who.
They got married, and rightoff the bat, there was.
There was trouble.
Right.
And so one couple that I knew,and I don't remember if they were
(06:58):
Christian, this was a longtime ago.
They were friends of friends,but it didn't even last, like two
months because the husbandwasn't used to the wife.
They both worked full time andhe didn't.
He was used to his mom doingeverything for him.
And so when she wanted him tocome in, in a partnership, he could,
he couldn't.
He didn't even have the wordsto communicate and how to work through
(07:18):
that.
And that's maybe an extremeexample in just one little way.
But I think that's the pointis we go into it and we haven't discussed
all the things always.
But this marriage game plan,no matter what point of marriage
we're in, because you're help.
This can help anybody.
Right.
Whether you're just gettingmarried or about to, or whether you've
been married for 20 or 30 ormore years.
So what would you just say,like, whether you're new or you've
(07:41):
been married, but you'restarting to see some fissures.
You know, some things aren'tquite lined up.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Because it's one thing to get married.
It's a whole nother thing tobe married and to stay married.
And sometimes people thinkjust because I got married or just
because we're in love, it'sgoing to just work out.
(08:02):
But it's.
It's about learning how tobecome one.
Right.
Learning how to make yourmarriage work.
And every marriage is uniqueand different in its own way.
I mean, it's going to bedifferent from your parents marriage,
your friend's marriage, butyou, too, have to realize that it's
about figuring it out.
(08:25):
So.
And that's what happened withGeorge and I.
This is why we started ourmarriage ministry Journey for Life
is because we like to saywe're pictures of God, God's grace.
Like, we did not know what wewere doing.
We were just doing.
We were just being haphazard, right?
Working out marriagehaphazardly with no plan.
(08:45):
And we didn't realize howdifferent we really were and how
those things were going towork against us becoming one.
And so we, you know, we just.
Like I said, we're pictures ofGod's grace.
We just wanted to.
Once God helped us figure outhow to make our marriage work, we
just wanted to help as manycouples as we can.
(09:07):
Because it's not somethingthat's intuitive, is something that
you educate yourself, youlearn, you grow, you develop skills.
It's not about just whatyou've experienced, but it's.
It's not about you just makingyour spouse do everything the way
you're comfortable with, butit's about how do.
What do we want to take fromour experiences, our backgrounds,
(09:30):
and why do we want to createour way?
Not my way, not his way, butour way, our unique way.
And a lot of times couples,you know, don't want, you know, it's
the resistance to change.
So true.
Oh, my gosh.
Yeah.
So, okay, I know one of themain first things that you have people
you walk people through is thebig thing, the hierarchy thing, or
(09:52):
I mean, the highest thing,which is kind of having.
Setting a vision and a missionfor your marriage, just like we might
do for our career or if youown a business.
But, you know, I know you talkabout in the book, we should really
have that for every.
Like, you should have that fordifferent parts of your life, but
definitely for your marriage.
So what would you just say topeople that, yeah, yeah, what would
you say?
About that.
(10:13):
Yeah, definitely.
For your marriage.
I like to say marriage is oneof the most important institutions
that you will be a part of.
And we know in otherinstitutions we have to get coaching,
we have to read, we have toget education, we have to put the
work in, we have to do allthese things to be successful.
But a lot of times people feellike with marriage, you don't have
(10:36):
to put those things in, but Ifeel like you really do, because
out of all the things that'sgoing to live beyond you, the legacy
that you're going to leave isgoing to be through how you loved
each other, how you.
What your kids observed, whatyour grandkids observed, what the
community observed about your family.
(10:59):
So marriage requires no lesseffort, no less energy.
And we don't want to be makingassumptions about our plan.
We don't want to behaphazardly doing our plan.
We want to be intentionalabout what legacy we want to leave.
And that starts at the beginning.
(11:19):
And then, you know, thatstarts with you having a vision,
having a mission statement andworking towards that end game picture.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah.
It's so powerful.
So I want to start at thebeginning, the bit beginning being.
We.
We all bring in our backgrounds.
Right.
(11:39):
Somebody might call itbaggage, whatever word you want to
use, but it's, it's everythingprior to that marriage, you know,
you becoming, you know, onecomes with you.
Right.
To some extent.
And like you said, we all havewalked a different path in life up
to that point.
So what can you share with us?
Because I think it's definitely.
We don't always realize in anyrelationship, but especially marriage,
(12:03):
that the way maybe our parentwas with us, the way that something
happened to us or someone saidsomething to us, we don't realize
that we bring in thosemessages, those patterns, whatever
it might be, into ourmarriage, and then we're having problems
maybe, and we don't realizeit's because.
(12:24):
Not because of us or ourspouses necessarily, but because
we didn't realize we'rebringing this forward.
So how do you help people withthose types of things or what do
you recommend to them?
Yes, yes, I like to helppeople with those things because
you have to ask certainquestions to each other, provoking
questions about how thingsshaped you.
(12:46):
What did that mean for you?
How did this impact you?
You know, what's the story inyour head surrounding that particular
thing?
And those are just the deeperquestions to kind of bring those
subconscious things out into a.
Into the conscious mind, intoa conversation.
(13:09):
And it helps you get to knoweach other on a deeper level.
And it helps you know whatyour relationship dynamics are.
The more you can know whatthey are, the, the more empowered
you are to get a game plan ora strategy or just so your spouse
knows how important certainthings are because, you know, they're
(13:30):
filling some, some gaps inyour background or your past.
So.
Yeah, so it's, it's thoseconversations, deep questions that's
just, you know, one of thechapters in our book gives you a,
a list of questions to reallygo deep.
And in it, to go deep withyour spouse, you actually have to
(13:50):
do that your own individual self.
When George and I were firstmarried, I didn't realize these unconscious
things that were playing outin our marriage.
And we were just in thesegridlock type of conversations.
And I just remember saying,what is it about this scenario that
(14:13):
just pushes my buttons?
And I had to do kind of a moreintrospection of what it is.
And it just helped me uncoverlike there were some things from
my past that this circumstancewas triggering those things.
And I was responding based offof a past circumstances and not my
(14:37):
present circumstances.
And so that was veryempowering for me to, to learn that
and empowering for George toeven know that.
And then it helped us get onthe same page about how we want to
navigate those type ofcircumstances going forward.
And I would imagine that for alot of people that work, if they've
never done that kind of work, is.
(14:58):
It's probably hard to pullthat out even of yourself or to.
Right.
I would, I would think that insome cases that's not going to just
be, oh, okay, I have thesequestions and it's going to come
forth that may take some realmining for some time or sitting on
that for a while, I would guess.
Yes, absolutely.
There have been differentperiods of time in our lives where
(15:23):
we had to get professional help.
We've gone to conferences.
I know in the first beginningwhen we were trying to get out of
our stuck place place and ourdark place in our marriage, we went
to the same conference sevenyears consecutively in a row.
No new content.
(15:43):
But we were just establishingthe discipline of working on our
marriage and getting outsideof it and looking at it objectively.
And so we just wanted to havea habit of that, a discipline of
that, but it was no new content.
We were just trying to findone thing, one new thing to implement
(16:03):
in our marriage each time we went.
And so we've gone to so manycounselors and individual as a couple.
And it.
So yes, it's, it's A.
It's a deep work depending on where.
What your background has been.
And it.
And it takes some combing andmining those things to bring them
(16:26):
to the surface.
So.
So that you and your spousecan both be attacking that issue
together as a team and notbeing solo in.
In your marriage.
Yeah, well, and I love thatyou brought up just the going to
the marriage conferences, youknow, working with people, because
sometimes I think in, in anyaspect of our life, but especially
(16:48):
in this way, getting out ofyour environment can even just let
you see things differently.
Like you may, you know, justmaybe observing the other married
couples, like stuff will clickwith you when you just take yourself
to a different place sometimes.
Right.
As a couple even.
And so, you know, while thatwasn't your main point of going,
I think it.
It is a point becausesometimes we can get stuck in a rut
(17:11):
for whatever reason and if wedon't do something a little different.
Right.
Have a new experience or golook for a new perspective, you know,
or what's.
What am I noticing this year,right, at the conference the next
time?
So I think that that's stuffthat's great.
Yeah, I think, I think you hita key part of it too.
It's sometimes we.
(17:31):
This is what I always say.
We're up close and personal inour relationship, and sometimes that's
all we can like, focus on.
And sometimes just having anew environment turns you outward
to focus on other things.
And it's equally as powerful to.
To hear that you're not theonly couple.
(17:51):
When you go away and you'rearound other couples, peers, as well
as the leaders on stageteaching, it's like, oh, wow, like
this is normal.
It's not unique to us.
We're gonna get through this.
There is hope, you know, andjust hearing other people's stories
and journeys that cannormalize some of the struggles that
(18:12):
you're having, which reallyhelps breathe hope and life into
you.
And when you have hope in.
In a situation, you work atsomething differently than when you
feel hopeless.
So.
Yeah, I think so.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So good.
Okay.
So some of the things that Iseem to notice, and I obviously am
not a rel relationship coach,but just with, you know, having a
(18:35):
lot of married friends andbeing married a long time is some
of two of the big things seemto be that it's our communication
or not ever having learned howto communicate in the.
The best way possible.
Right.
In a marriage.
And so the communication slashconflict resolution.
So I'd love to talk about whatdo you just see whether it was in
(18:56):
your own marriage when you'veworked with people right in their
relationships.
And then I think the other oneis the difficulty we sometimes have
with connecting or knowing howto stay connected.
So I'd love your thoughts onboth of those things.
Yeah, yeah.
So we're different and God.
And that's intentional God.
(19:18):
God loves diversity.
He is so creative.
Like we have no twofingerprints are the same.
You know, he's just unique.
No two snowflakes are the same.
Like God is all aboutuniqueness and diversity.
And that's a beautiful,beautiful thing.
Now the challenge is how doyou take these two God designed individuals
(19:44):
and now God calls them tobecome one in marriage.
And I do think that is a bigchallenge in the communication is
that we're both different andwe're both unique, which we, which
we wish isn't a mistake.
But figuring out how the twodifferent people, people, different
(20:04):
personalities, different styles.
I mean, George and I are so different.
Down to minor things likebeing on time to places.
It's like I grew up where youcould be 15 minutes fashionably late.
He grew up, his dad raised himto be 15 minutes early.
(20:25):
And we didn't even know thatwe were coming in with that.
Right.
But we would get into what wecall fights, intense fellowship.
So we would get into theseintense fellowship moments when it's
time to go somewhere and wecouldn't figure out why are we struggling
or why are we getting in anargument, going on a date night or
(20:47):
going to a Valentine's event.
But having these,communicating about even the smallest
things that you are feelingthat friction about can get clarity.
So you know, we, so just in apractical sense, George was like,
oh, when someone says 10 o'clock, in my mind, I'm moving towards
(21:08):
being there at 9:45.
And I'm like, oh, now thatmakes sense.
Because when someone says itstarts at 10, I'm saying, oh, I have
until 10:15 to be there.
So that's like a 30 minutewindow difference.
And we are not heading towardsthe same goal.
We're pulling each other inthe opposite direction.
(21:29):
So even just pausing andslowing down, intense fellowships
or interactions enough to tryto understand and ask the question
I'm trying to understand, whatdoes this mean to you?
What do you have in your mindright now?
Or what are you thinking aboutthis topic?
And then you'll be surprisedat the enlightenment of, oh, that's
(21:51):
why we're having a, you know,intense moments over these things.
So slowing down theconversation, asking more questions
of clarity and being curiousabout what's going on in each other's
heads is some practical thingsthat we can do to help improve our
communication and connectionis about being on that same page
(22:11):
and understanding each otherin a deeper way.
That's so good.
Yeah.
And I, I would just maybe addto that that it's also not over communicating
but to your point, like whenwe're about to go somewhere, my husband
and I maybe to an event, I'llsay, okay, well I want to, I want
to leave at this time.
Like I don't say what timewe're getting there.
(22:31):
I tell him what time I want toleave because I know and it's not.
He's usually an on timeperson, but I definitely am.
But sometimes he'll be doing aproject right around the house or
somewhere else.
And so he'll be pushing theedge to when he gets a shower based
on when he thinks we're leaving.
So if I told him when I wantto get there, he'll be like, oh,
(22:51):
we can get there in 15 minuteseven if it's 23 minute drive.
And I'm like, no, that's why Ihave to tell him when we're leaving
because that's when my expectation.
But if I just said oh well,the party's at 6 and we would be
late and it's not because heintends to, it's because he's trying
to do as many things as he canin that day up until we have to be
somewhere.
So.
(23:11):
Right.
It's kind of that really clearon what is your expectation.
And I don't mean we alwaysmeet each other's expectations.
Exactly.
But it's.
If you're not clear on yourexpectation, then it's like unlikely
to get met.
Exactly.
And like you were saying, likewe, it's not that either of us have
(23:32):
to meet each other's expectations.
Where we have to meet iscoming up with our own way that we're
going to do it.
So you take a little bit ofGeorge and a little bit of Tandra
and then you come up with ourway just using the example that I
was just talking about.
So George gave up the right tobe 15 minutes early, I gave up the
(23:54):
right to be 15 minutes late.
And we came up with the agreedupon strategy of being on time on
the dot in a little tweak likethat where you're, you know, we're
not forcing each other to dothings the way the other one does,
but we are both willing tosacrifice to meet on something that
(24:17):
we can agree on and work Towards.
And I always say everybody hasto give up something for the sake
of unity.
For unity to take place.
Sacrifice is a part ofreaching unity.
And you've got to be willingto sacrifice so that you can get
an agreed upon strategy.
Oh, that's so true.
I mean, marriage is so muchabout compromise, but doing it from
(24:40):
a servant's heart, I think.
Right.
It's, it's, it's doing it outof a place of love, not because I
have to compromise all the time.
Right.
Because you know you're goingto compromise sometimes what you
would have really liked to door whatever.
And then there's other timeswhere as long as you're both giving,
they're compromising for you.
Maybe something inactivitythat wasn't their favorite.
Right.
Because it is going to be alittle bit of a give and a take.
(25:02):
So.
That's so true.
Absolutely.
And like you said, you have tohear each other.
Because even about the timing thing.
Absolutely.
Like, if my husband said tome, like, oh, well, there's no way
I can be ready or have anevent until then, of course we talk
about, well, when can we go?
And then I would text thepeople that invited us and let them
know.
Right.
In other words, it's not likeit has to be what I said it was,
that he would tell me.
(25:23):
Well, hold on, I don't thinkthat's going to work.
Right.
And then we'd have a conversation.
Yeah.
Oh, yes.
Yeah.
If you hadn't have verbalizedanything, that would have left you
guys in an assumption statewhich ends in frustration.
So.
Yes.
About clarity getting outsideof our heads.
Absolutely.
Yes.
I'm the world's worst thinginside my head, so that's something
(25:45):
I had to learn to get outsidemy head.
Yeah.
So what about, you know, whatdo you see with couples you work
with with the importance of usconnecting, you know, either going
on dates or just doing things together.
And then of course, makingsure that there's some level of intimacy.
However we define that, youknow, in the particular marriage.
(26:06):
Yes.
Oh, I definitely think havingrhythms already established and,
and being faithful to thoserhythms because life is so demanding,
there's so much pressure on color.
They're getting pulled in somany directions.
And if you're not and createthe rhythm and to make room in your
(26:33):
calendar for these rhythms andhonoring the rhythms, then before
you know what, life has justdemanded your calendar and you back
and say, whoa, we haven't beenon a date in three months.
How did this happen?
You know, But I feel like ifyou can be intentional and carve
that time out and plan aroundit because it's just as important
(26:54):
as any other meeting, anyother activity, any other.
Sporting.
Events or kids thing.
It's.
It's just as important as allkeep putting it on the back burner.
Because the best gift you cangive your kids is a healthy marriage,
a balanced perspective ofprioritizing your marriage for them,
(27:17):
because that's how they'relearning how they're supposed to
be treated and what they wantto expect in their marriages.
You know, is is true thing forus to set the stage for that?
Absolutely.
Yeah.
I mean, I. I definitely talkedto people over the years when I had
younger kids.
I mean, mine are all now, youknow, 18 to 23.
(27:38):
So not little kids anymore.
They're adults.
But I remember when they wereyounger, like some people might say,
like, well, we don't have ababysitter or we don't have, you
know, okay, and that mighthappen, Right.
But you just get creative.
For instance, you might say,once the kids go to bed, we're going
to have date night in the house.
Right.
And just set up an area tohave time together so it doesn't
have to be some elaboratething always.
Or go spend a lot of money,because there's going to be times
(28:00):
where that might not work foryou, but it's the commitment of we're
going to not work at all hours always.
We're not going to write.
It's going to have.
It's setting boundaries, butthen also setting time right for
the relationship.
Yeah, absolutely.
Absolutely.
When our kids were smaller.
Yeah, it takes so much morejuggling and you can just talk yourself
(28:22):
out of it because there's somuch work, so much money, so much
effort.
But during those times, youknow, kids don't know is what bedtime,
you know, what time is their bedtime.
So George and I used to, onour date nights, put the kids to
bed a little early because Iget sleepy soon.
(28:43):
So we had to start a littleearly because I'm not a night person.
But we would tuck them in thebed early, close the blinds, and
then we would just.
George, while I was tuckingin, he would run and pick up food
and bring it back or vice versa.
And that works while they're little.
And then I remember my son, he.
(29:05):
He's the oldest, and hestarted to say, when I would say
it's bedtime, he'd be like,but it.
But the sun is still out.
How could it possibly be bedtime?
I was like, okay, we need anew Strategy.
So.
So we started what we callpillow talk, and that's getting in
the bed after we tuck thekids, getting in the bed a little
early because George and Ihave different times that we go to
(29:27):
bed and get up, but we wouldget in the bed and just 10 or 15
minutes and just bond andcatch up with each other's day.
So it's really not thequantity as much as it is the quality
of time.
So, and.
And the intentionality.
So I would say the quality oftime and just being intentional and
(29:48):
making sure you find times tointersect your lives or not.
If not, then you're justgrowing parallel, like doing parallel
lives, but you're growing apart.
Because through all of theselife ups and downs and changes, we're
changing.
So we're either going to begrowing towards each other, growing
(30:09):
with each other, or we'regoing to be growing away from each
other.
Right?
Absolutely.
So let me ask you, what wouldyou say, in a more general sense
is the biggest struggle orroadblocks that couples tend to get
stuck up on?
You know, like, where do weget stuck in marriage?
I know it's different foreverybody, you know, whatever, in
different seasons.
But.
But in general, where is maybeone or two of the bigger patterns?
(30:33):
You see that.
That people kind of need helpto get unstuck?
Yeah, I feel like.
I mean, in my line of work, I'm.
I'm working with people whoare really stuck.
Right.
And they've been stuck andthey've developed a pattern of stuckness
that I need to help them unravel.
So it may not be as intensefor people who aren't feeling as
(30:55):
stuck.
Right.
But for the most part, I feellike learning how to have tough conversations
in their relationship.
You know, one of our chaptersis called Tips for Tackling Tough
Conversations because a lot ofcouples do get stuck in.
How do we have this conversation?
(31:17):
And especially we might havegrown up in different households
where, you know, maybe there'sa household you grow up in where
you don't talk.
Talk about tough conversations.
You don't talk about theelephant in the room, you tiptoe
around it and you ignore it.
Or you might have grown up ina household where we just hit, you
(31:38):
know, tackle it head on, andwe are just being reckless and, and
just going after that elephantwith a.
With a.
With, I don't know, a ton, ton truck.
Right.
And so sometimes we avoidtough conversations because we don't
know how to handle them or ifwe get involved in them, how do we.
(31:59):
How do we know how to get outof it or how do we move past it?
What do I do once I bring upthis topic and it goes and it gets
intense.
So I feel like that's a stuckplace that couples really need kind
of some steps in which to howto bring it up and how to talk about
it, how to bring it to resolveand move forward.
(32:21):
And so just a couple of thetips that we talk about is just nipping
in, nip it in the bud is the,is one of the most profound things.
It seems small, but if wedon't go ahead and just talk about
it and bring it up is onlygoing to compound, build up, seeping
(32:41):
out in ways that we can'tcontrol anymore.
So, so first of all, don'tkeep putting it off.
Go ahead and plan a time totalk about it and you can plan a
time.
That's another practical stepis you don't want to blind side each
other with the tough conversation.
(33:02):
Tough conversation is usuallya hot, hot topic.
There's a lot of emotions involved.
That's what makes it a tough conversation.
So, so bringing it uprecklessly at a time at, at the wrong
time.
You know, like we're thinkingwe're getting ready to get into bed
and go to sleep and then youbring up, you know, it's not going
to go well.
So you want to set it up forsuccess and picking the appropriate
(33:27):
time.
Agree.
Both of us agree on the timeand knowing that this is we're going
to tackle together.
I love, he used to say all thetime, I have something I need to
talk to you about.
And it's going to be a tough conversation.
And I like that because itprepared me.
(33:47):
It's like, okay, I know thisis going to be a tough conversation.
Let me put my big girl pantson and let me sit here and not get
offended, not get defensive,but really try to hear his heart
because it's tough because hedoesn't want to hurt me.
He wants, wants to handle itwith care.
So it puts you in the rightmind and the right perspective.
So those are just a fewpractical things that can help with
(34:10):
one of the big places that alot of couples are get, get stuck
in.
Yeah, absolutely.
I, I, that makes so much senseto me.
And I would also say just thisis, this is a small piece of that.
But I think it's very easy inour conversations.
We can misconstrue each other sometimes.
Right.
You know, maybe the tone waswrong and you didn't realize because
(34:32):
you were tired or it's a hardconversation and it's easy to get
defensive.
Right is the point.
And even if we don't mean to,and even if we know the person's
coming with us, trying to beconsiderate, we can still get, like,
defensive or snippy.
So how do you just guidecouples through that?
(34:53):
Because it is hard to, like,hang up that defensiveness feeling
and walk through the conversation.
Yes.
And what I tell couples iswhen you feel yourself being, being
aware of what you're feelingand when you feel yourself getting
to a place of defensiveness orbeing offended or hurt or escalated.
(35:20):
Sometimes we go into fight or flight.
We want to call a, a timeout,and we want to calm that down.
Because what happens when webecome very emotional in the conversation,
it shuts down the part of thebrain that gives you the logic, which
is the solution, focus part.
(35:40):
Because we're talking aboutthis, because we want a resolution
about it.
And we can never get thatresolution if we keep escalating
to the place and gettingoffended and defend, you know, offensive,
offended and defensive andsending ourselves into fight or flight.
We have to take the pause, saytime out.
(36:02):
You have to have an agreedupon pause, though.
You can't just shut down andjust be like, I'm out.
Yeah, but it's communicatingthat pause.
Hey, like, I can feel myselfreally escalating right now.
This isn't going to be helpfulmoving forward.
So let's take a timeout.
Now, whoever calls thetimeout, the other partner has to
(36:26):
let that person have the time out.
Right.
Because I do find that, yes,it, you know, it's just like, no,
no, we got to finish this.
Don't walk out on me.
You know, and that's why thecommunication of the timeout is so
important.
It lets that person know, I'mnot abandoning you.
This is important.
I'm hanging in here with youand I value it.
(36:47):
So that's why I need this timeout so that I can go and calm, calm
down.
And the person who is takingthe time out, this is not your get
out of jail free pass, becauseI know, oh, yes, I got out of that.
Hopefully he'll forget orshe'll forget and we'll just know
I won't have to have that conversation.
I say your timeouts should beabout 15 minutes, no longer than
(37:13):
30 minutes.
And you are actively calmingyourself down and you are coming
back.
And that's how your spouse cansay, all right, they're not abandoning
me.
They're not abandoning this conversation.
They're going to come backshortly, and then we're going to
resume the conversation.
But.
But in that timeout, youdefinitely need to be de.
Escalating yourself,remembering what's important, keeping
(37:36):
the big picture in mind,knowing that the intention of their
heart is not to harm us oroffend us or attack us, you know,
and vice versa.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And I would guess that if thisis an area which it would not be
surprising for most, a lot ofcouples, like that conflict resolution
or those hard conversations, Ishould say it's, you know, reading
the books or going and gettinghelp to help you get better at that
(38:01):
communication skill set.
Because it is a skill.
Right.
And it does take work,especially if both of you have different
ways you approach conflict.
My husband and I absolutelyhave different ways of approaching
it.
So we have to be reallycareful because it can easily.
He can be somebody where Ijust want to bring something up and
he wants to shut down, youknow, so it's just.
It's just because of how wewere raised different, you know what
(38:23):
I mean?
So we have to be reallycareful about that, you know, and
sometimes I just want to.
You know, I'm a woman.
I'm more that way.
Like, I want to talk somethingthrough, and he doesn't always.
And so I have to rememberwhere he's coming from sometimes
and give him a little time andspace sometimes.
Right.
Or whatever.
Maybe opposite.
(38:43):
He has to do somethingdifferent for me.
But so, yeah, I mean,sometimes we just have to go say,
like, how can we do better, right.
At going through this?
Like you said, if it'ssomebody that can never seem to come,
like, they're always needingtimeouts, and they can't really,
I guess, come and get thatresolution, like you said.
Exactly, exactly.
And.
(39:04):
And it's also about talkingabout how we talk, too.
Like you, it's.
Right.
I know we always talk aboutthe issue, but we also can talk about
how we communicate togetherand come up with a strategy.
Because George and I areopposite of your husband.
I'm internal.
(39:25):
He's the one that's got toprocess it in the moment, out loud,
verbally.
And I just stay in my head,get my own self together, and then
I'm done, you know?
But again, that's wheresacrifice comes into play.
No one gets to have it their way.
And we always joke, George andI say, if you want it your way, you
got to go to Burger King.
(39:46):
That's their slogan.
You can get your Whopperanywhere you want it.
Right.
But what am I willing to giveup about the way that I'm comfortable
resolving conflict?
Because it's not about forcingthe spouse to adopt your way.
But here's another area ofsacrifice where it's like, you have
(40:06):
to talk about how youcommunicate and get to a resolution,
an agreeable.
A mutually agreeable resolution.
And so that's why George says,okay, I can allow you that time to
be internal.
But I also, in order to dothat, I need you to let me know when
you're coming back.
Right.
So that, you know, you canhave your time, but I can also have
(40:29):
the way I find closure.
You can have the way you findclosure, but don't keep me from the
way I find closure, you know?
Oh, yeah.
So good.
So what would you just sharewith us about, you know, the God
being at the center of ourmarriage and why that is so powerful
and important?
(40:49):
Yeah.
Yes.
Well, God created marriage sohe knows how.
How it's supposed to work,what we're supposed to get out of
it, how to be successful at it.
So God being the center is akey component.
It's like our iPhones, right?
Like, if we don't.
If we don't go back to thecreator to figure out, well, what.
(41:11):
What.
What's this design?
What's all the capabilitiesthis can do?
And then we'll never reallyget the full potential of the iPhone
if we don't go back to thecreator of that iPhone and figure
it out and the benefits andall the things that it's going to
challenge us with and help us with.
So going back and keeping Godat the center and making sure that
(41:33):
he.
You're seeking him for, well,what did you create marriage for?
What am I supposed to get outof it?
How is it supposed to grow me?
How is this supposed to.
Supposed to help me?
And then this is how we learnto get out of it, what God has.
Has created it for now theworld has its way.
(41:53):
Oh, but it's not a lot oftimes not aligned with the biblical
way.
Sometimes it's countercultural.
But I know in the world, youknow, in the world, it's about our
secular, like, our happiness, right.
Do you find that person thatmakes you happy?
And.
And all of this is all aboutyour happiness.
(42:13):
But if you look at it throughGod's eye is really about your sacrifice
being made more in the imageof Him.
And this person is supposed tochallenge us.
We're supposed to grow inGod's nature and character, and we're
supposed to pass that on toour children.
How do you forgive?
How do you sacrifice?
(42:34):
How do you have longsuffering,patience, kindness all the fruits
of God's spirit and his nature.
But marriage is where itstarts, and then it's reflected to
our children from generationto generation.
Yeah, absolutely.
So good.
Okay.
So what would you just want toshare with us?
Just about all therelationship coaching you do from
(42:56):
the book.
Whatever you want to share,just that we haven't covered yet.
That you would just love to,you know, speak or encourage of the
listeners.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So we are so excited aboutthis book.
We have poured our heart andsoul into this book.
We feel like God has beenwriting this book through our marriage
for.
For the last 30 years.
(43:16):
And just to have everythingcome together in this book is just.
We.
We're just out, you know,outside of ourselves.
But what we're really excitedabout is this book is not just you're
just not going to be reading,but we have a Putting it into practice
section at the end of eachchapter where you will then apply
(43:38):
what we were just talking about.
You will begin to work on thatspecific area.
And at the end of everychapter is a QR code that you will
scan to receive coaching fromGeorge and I on that particular chapter
as well.
And what couples will besurprised about is that as they're
reading, doing the putting itinto practice sections, doing the
(44:01):
virtual coaching, they'regoing to be writing their unique
marriage game plan.
And by the time they get tochapter 10, it will put everything
together for them that theycan take away and continue to refer
back to it as needed andadjust as needed as life happens.
But it's a very interactivebook and is really.
(44:23):
Its goal is to really give youa game plan for your marriage, your
unique marriage.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
Absolutely.
I mean, that.
That makes it, you know, justsuch a more powerful tool.
Right.
Like you said, that it's.
Because at the end of the day,it is each per.
Each couple's own game plan.
Right.
For their marriage.
(44:43):
And they are all differentbecause, like you said at the beginning,
we're all uniquely made andeven each spouse.
Right.
And so, so good.
So let me ask you this.
What is filling you up, youknow, as you're busy in the season
of promoting the book andworking with clients and everything
else?
Well, I feel like what'sfilling me up in this season is living
(45:06):
on mission right now.
I, you know, I kind of put mycareer kind of on the back burner
to, you know, be a mom, be awife, be supportive, raise my kids,
just be fully present.
And that was important to me.
And I was very.
It filled me up.
(45:28):
I grew up with A single mom,she didn't.
She could.
She didn't have the sameopportunities that I was having to
be very present with my kids.
And that filled me up in that season.
And now that my kids arelaunched and they're on their own,
I. I feel like living onmission with that God has called
me to is so full fulfillingright now for this part of my life.
(45:52):
And I'm just so surprised athow life giving it is and energizing
it is.
And I just want to be a goodsteward over this second half of
my life.
And it's really filling me up.
It's bringing out new thingsthat I didn't know I had in me that
was saved up for such a timeas this.
And so, yeah, so it's reallyencouraging that God has a plan for
(46:16):
us.
If we keep him first and makesure we do it in his order, he's
always got the plan.
You're not missing out.
You're not missing a beat.
He will put you right whereyou're supposed to be at that right
time.
Absolutely.
All right, can you share withus, where can people find out more
about the book and all theother ways that you're working with
(46:37):
people?
Yes.
So you can find the MarriageGame Plan in.
In your favorite online bookstore.
Amazon is very popular, so alot of people get.
Get it from Amazon.
And also our marriage ministryis called Journey for Life.
Our website is journey forlife now.org and that's where you'll
find the Marriage Game Plan,our book also other resources we
(47:01):
have.
We do relationship coaching,individual coaching, grand group
coaching, all these aspects.
And we are launching theMarriage Game Plan podcast this week.
So we'll also be giving tipsand talking about relationship.
All things marriage andrelationships on the podcast as well.
Oh, I love that.
(47:22):
I can't wait for that to come out.
That'll definitely be anotherextension of how you can, you know,
just encourage couples intheir walk of being married.
So I love it.
Well, thank you for joining ustoday for sharing your heart, for
sharing the wisdom that you'vegained over 30 years of marriage
and then over all the yearsthat you or and your husband have
worked with people in theirown marriages.
(47:43):
And yeah, I just.
I just pray that this will,you know, bless and give some people
that, like you said, that hopethat we can all have stronger, really
beautiful marriages.
Even if right now it feelslike we're stuck in some way, there
is hope.
God can do all things.
We just have to go and do thework, you know, go to him with it
(48:05):
and so, yeah, I just thank youfor coming on, joining us today.
Yes.
Thank you so much for having me.
Thank you for giving aplatform for women to come and share
their faith and their journey.
And I really appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
Okay.
As we wrap up today's episode,I wanted to share a scripture with
you.
And then just one idea.
So the scriptures fromEphesians 4, 31, 32, which says,
(48:30):
banish bitterness, rage andanger, shouting and slander and any
and all malicious thoughts.
These are poison.
Instead, be kind andcompassionate, graciously forgive
one another just as God hasforgiven you.
And while that might not havebeen written specifically about marriage,
what good advice, especiallyin our marriages.
(48:50):
And so I also wanted to sharejust a quick idea with you from the
devotional by Michelle Peterson.
It's called a couple'sdevotional, and it says, I thought
my marriage would be arelationship with this man whom I
fell in love with.
I thought we'd hang out andmake out and see what became of our
lives together.
Instead, my marriage hasbecome a sanctuary.
(49:12):
Marriage is a holy place, andnothing holy can be experienced without
transformation.
And I hope from today'sconversation, today's interview,
I hope that what you got fromthis is it's all about transformation,
right?
It's coming together.
It's learning to communicate.
It's learning to compromise.
(49:32):
It's learning to work together.
It's learning to put ourspouse first.
It's learning to put God inthe middle of our marriage.
And so it's all abouttransforming our hearts.
It's about transforming twopeople, right, who have two different
backgrounds, two differentexperiences, and transforming them
(49:53):
into one married couple.
In working through marriage,there's going to be different seasons.
There's going to be differentthings we have to walk through.
Some are going to be hard ordevastating, and some are just going
to feel like seasons wheremaybe marriage feels more stagnant
or maybe we need to getprofessional help.
(50:14):
Whatever you're walkingthrough, just remember it is about
having a vision and a gameplan for a marriage.
And as we grow and mature overthe decades, that game plan is going
to be added to, edited,altered, potentially.
And so I hope today'sconversation just blesses your marriage.
(50:34):
I hope that there are sometidbits that you can take away.
And definitely if you'resomebody that's looking for more
relational and marriageguidance, then definitely check out
the new podcast, the MarriageGame Plan or the Marriage Game Plan
book that Tondra and herhusband wrote.
Thanks again for listening tothe show and if you enjoyed today's
episode.
(50:54):
We would love it if you couldtake a minute to leave a rating and
review on Apple podcastbecause it helps our show get discovered
by more people.
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