Adoption, Identity, and Belonging with Adoptee, Isaac Etter

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What if the most loving thing we can do for our kids isn’t to fix their pain, but to guide them through it? We sit down with Isaac Etter—transracial adoptee, educator, and founder of Identity and Parenting Different—to unpack what adoptees actually need: honest stories, practical preparation, and communities that make belonging real.

Isaac shares how identity often splits in two for adoptees: Who am I in a family where no one looks like me, and how does my race shape my daily experience? He names a trio many families miss—loss, grief, and guilt—and explains why guilt is so common when adoptees fear disappointing loving parents with honest questions. We dig into how parents can move from protection to preparation in transracial homes, offering concrete examples for talking about bias, public behavior, and safety without making the world feel hopeless. From Nerf guns in the front yard to being followed in a store, Isaac gives language to help kids understand what happened, know where we stand, and feel safe coming back to talk more.

We also map an age-appropriate path for lifelong conversations about race and adoption. Start early with everyday affirmation—books, toys, hair care, and mentors that reflect your child—and build toward practical scripts for school, friends, and authority. Belonging grows when the whole family participates in diverse communities, cultural festivals, and routines that normalize the child’s heritage. And when it comes to birth stories, we talk about sharing truth in stages—without vilifying or hiding—so kids carry a coherent narrative into adulthood.

Looking for ongoing support? Isaac’s work with Identity and Parenting Different brings post-adoption training and free resources to families, agencies, and states. Listen for the frameworks and scripts we use at home, then share the episode with someone who needs it. If this helped you, subscribe, leave a review, and tell us: what’s one conversation you’ll start this week?

Link: https://www.parentingdifferent.com/

Connect with me on Instagram:
@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/
Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/

Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:09):
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well Podcast,
where we have real, candid,faith-built conversations about
all things foster care,adoption, and trauma.
I'm your host, Nicole T.
Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach, and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can

(00:29):
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance, and
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell.
So let's jump in.

(01:01):
Can we just pause for a secondand talk about how it's already
November?
I feel like I blinked and wejumped from strummer summer
straight into the holidayseason.
Also, where I live, I feel likewe also skipped the fall
weather, which I love the fallweather.
So I'm really upset that we wentstraight from uh summer to what

(01:23):
it feels like winter where Ilive.
Um my porch still has pumpkins,but I'm already thinking about
Christmas lights and hot cocoa.
Um, November also bringssomething really, really close
to my heart, and that's adoptionawareness month.
This month is about more thanjust sharing adoption stories.

(01:44):
It's about shining a light onthe thousands of children and
teens who are still waiting forforever families.
It's a reminder that awarenessleads to action.
And maybe that means openingyour home if your home's not
already open, but it could alsomean you mentoring somebody, you

(02:05):
supporting a foster or adoptivefamily or encouraging somebody
on their journey, or so simplyhelping others understand the
beauty and the complexity thatcomes with adoption.
Um, we need to be those of usthat see what the need, we see
what needs to happen.

(02:25):
We are the ones who really needto advocate and spread awareness
in our communities.
Well, today we're leaning intothat complexity with a really
special guest, Isaac Etter.
Isaac is a transracial adopteeand social entrepreneur that is
reshaping how we support fosterand adoptive families.

(02:46):
Adopted at age two, he bringsboth lived experience and
professional expertise to hiswork as the founder of identity
and parenting different.
He is a sought-after speaker andeducator, which I think you'll
understand why.
Um, but Isaac really sparkshonest conversations about how

(03:07):
to support adopted childrenwhile they grow up.
He equips parents and childwelfare professionals with the
tools and understanding neededto build homes where adoptees
feel seen, heard, and trulyvalued.
And y'all, isn't that what weall want for our kids to feel
seen, heard, and valued?
So we're talking about how tosupport our kids through the

(03:29):
layers of adoption today,especially in transracial,
foster, and adoptive families,where identity, belonging, and
connection all intertwine.
I think this conversation isgonna stretch you in the best
way.
It's eye-opening, it's hopeful,and so, so needed.
So grab your coffee, settle in,and let's jump into this

(03:50):
conversation with Isaac Etter.
Welcome, Isaac, to the show.
I'm so excited to have you on.
Um, so tell us a little bitabout you, about your story, and
about how you came to work inthis adoption space.

SPEAKER_03 (04:05):
Absolutely.
Uh, first, thank you for havingme.
I'm excited to be here.
Um, so I am Isaac, I am anadoptee first.
I think that's probably a goodway to put it is that uh I was
adopted when I was two.
And so I was also adoptedtransracially, and that became a
big part of how I ended up inthis space.
Um, but I guess maybe the storyof how I ended up in the

(04:26):
adoption space as a more of likea professional and a worker was
that I was asked by a socialworker when I was 19 to give a
presentation at uh theircultural training.
And it was just something I wasvolunteering and doing, you
know, I was just a kid.
And after a couple months ofdoing it, she pulled me aside
and said, I don't know what elseyou're doing, but you should

(04:47):
probably just do this.
And uh at 19, that started meinto figuring out how in the
world to make a career inadoption, which, unless you're a
social worker or working in theadoption space, uh, there isn't
maybe necessarily a clearblueprint on that.
Um, and so I started figuring itout then and and started

(05:08):
speaking and offering uhwebinars mainly.
Um and that grew and grew.
And as I started to speak moreplaces and get more insight, uh
I started to realize that thesame questions I was answering
on one side of the country, Iwas answering on another side.
Yep.
And it seemed prettyinefficient, um, though
personal, um, but it seemedinefficient to trying to be

(05:31):
answering a lot of thesequestions in like a 90-minute,
you know, webinar.
And so in 2021, I founded uhIdentity, and Identity was built
around enhancing post-adoptionsupport.
Our goal was to makepost-adoption better at adoption
agencies and states.
Um, and over the last four yearsnow, uh, we've partnered with

(05:52):
several private adoptionagencies, and then I think we're
at three states now, um, providepost-adoption programmings
across their states for theirfamily, uh, which opens them up
to not only the collection ofresources that we make on an
ongoing basis, but also uhsometimes three to four uh
webinars a month that theirfamilies can come and get access

(06:13):
to, uh, depending on what theyneed.

SPEAKER_00 (06:15):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (06:16):
Um, and then out of that, because I guess the story
isn't over yet, um out of that,uh, we we found another issue,
which was that uh a lot offamilies that had started maybe
following me online or I'd runinto uh were seeing that a lot
of stuff was happening, butreally did not have a way to
access it.

(06:36):
Um we really only distributedour resources through states and
agencies.
Uh, we did not have like a likea good way or a kind of a
function to do it directly tofamilies.
Uh we tried a bunch of smallthings, but it nothing really
seemed successful.
Um so we decided to launch aparent focus company called
Parenting Different in June ofthis year.

(06:57):
Um, and it is really just like afree newsletter where we give
away weekly resources.
Um, and then we also giveparents the chance to attend our
training so they can buy ticketsto our trainings if they would
like to come to trainings.
Um, but 99% of the stuff that wedo at Parenting Different is
meant to be free.
It's meant to be given away.
Um, it's meant to also give uhpeople a chance to get our paid

(07:20):
resources if they would like to.
Uh, but since we've alwayscreated such a large volume of
resources, um, we wanted a wayto get those into everyday
parents' hands, whether theiragency or state uh paid for them
to have access to it or not.
Um so that's identity andparenting different.
Um, so that's maybe the adoptionwork side.

(07:40):
Uh, and then personally, uh, I'ma dad to a five-year-old now.
Um, I'm a big runner.
I've been really into therunning world, and I'm trying to
run my first ultra marathon inMay.
And so I have a lot of traininggoing on and uh just trying to
enjoy each day as we're tryingto build interesting things in
adoption and manage parenthoodand all that.

SPEAKER_01 (08:03):
That's awesome.
I I love how you're kind oftaking all of the opportunities
that that God's kind of layingout there for you because there
are so many opportunities forand so many needs for parents to
really have good resources andgood understanding.

(08:24):
Um and I think your perspectivecoming from the adoptee
perspective is so, so crucial.
So, what was it like growing upas an adoptee?

SPEAKER_03 (08:35):
Yeah.
Growing up as an adoptee, uh, Ithink for me, um in a lot of my
experience growing up as anadoptee has definitely um
influenced how we think aboutthe work.
Uh, but I will say that it's notthe only influence of our work.
Um there are some themes that Ifound of my story that I've
found that resonate across a lotof adult adoptees that I meet.

(08:58):
Um, and so some of those themesare lack of identity, right?
So um there was one sense ofthat where I was growing up in
an adoptive family where I wasnot able to see where my
features came from.
Um, my mannerisms weredifferent.
I grew up in a home that alsohad biological siblings, so I
was also watching my siblingsreflect my parents and their

(09:21):
features and their attributeswhile I was not.
I know that's not everyadoptee's experience, but I
would say that's one layer ofidentity that was a huge
challenge for me growing up.
Um, and another layer of it wascultural identity or racial
identity, as we mainly talkabout it in transracial
adoption, uh, which was that Ididn't also grow up around
people that look like me.
There were three other uh blackadoptees in the community I grew

(09:44):
up in, and it was just us.
Um so I yeah, I also had a hugegap in racial identity that grew
bigger and bigger as I gotolder, um, which is usually what
we see.
Um, usually when we think aboutelementary years, we think about
questions and insecurity aroundlooking different.
But as we get into teen yearsand into early adulthood,

(10:06):
there's usually more of a racialidentity crisis because there is
a lack of ability to understandwhere you fit in between these
two worlds, um, especially fortransracial adopters like myself
who did not grow up incommunities that represented uh
their cultural identity.
And so um identity was a bigstruggle for me on both of those

(10:27):
fronts, uh, trying to understandmy place um as just a person and
where I fit into the world.
And then especially as I gotolder, trying to figure out
where I fit into uh life as ablack person, as somebody who
was having a racial experience.
Um I didn't grow up facing a tonof racism.
I grew up as a homeschooled umblack kid in Lancaster,

(10:48):
Pennsylvania.
Um, and so obviously the mostdiverse area you can think of.
Um and so it was it wascomplicated uh as I went into
adulthood.
Um another thing that I'll talkabout, maybe about what it was
like growing up, is that I alsofeel like I dealt with a bunch
of guilt.

(11:08):
Um and um there's three elementsI like to talk about when I talk
about what adoptees usuallyexperience, um, and it's loss,
grief, and guilt.
Um and we don't usually talkabout guilt in that mix, uh, but
I like to focus on guilt becauseI think guilt is actually a very
um prevalent adoptee experience.
And guilt is centered aroundthis idea that you are living a

(11:32):
life that you are not umunthankful for, but you are
confused by.
Um and so, i.e., loss in grief,right?
We see grief show up in adopteesin many ways.
Um, and so usually, um, and I'lluse myself as the example, for
me, a lot of my grief and lossaround adoption, my desire to be

(11:53):
with my birth parents, tounderstand where they were, to
um understand why they placed mefor adoption was all um, I would
say, surrounded in grief at inum in guilt as much as it was
grief.
Um and so this desire to nothurt my parents' feelings, yeah,

(12:16):
to not ruffle feathers, to notruin uh the beautiful story that
might have been told around thedinner table, um, to not ruin
the adoption day celebrations,right?
Um and I have found as I'veconnected with a lot of adult
adoptees that this is a verycommon experience, maybe
actually more common thanadoptees who just like struggle

(12:38):
with the idea of adoption.
There are many adoptees who ummight say that they don't
struggle with the fact that theywere adopted, but they have
always felt guilt around theircuriosity.
Um, and so I find guilt to be areally core theme in the
adoptees that I meet.
Um, and it has been a core themefor me as well.

(13:00):
Um, I will obviously pair thatwith grief and loss, which all
adoptees feel to some degree.
Um, and I definitely showedthrough like behavior and um
through anger at times.
Um, but I would say identityguilt, uh, i.e., or slash uh
grief and loss were the mainthings that I experienced or

(13:21):
felt growing up.

SPEAKER_01 (13:23):
Yeah, I I love that you brought up that guilt piece
because I don't think thatthat's something that a lot of
people talk about.
And I've noticed with one of mykids, so I adopted a sibling
group of five.
Um, and so they all they allfeel very different about
adoption and about theirparents.
And it's been very interestingto watch their unique

(13:47):
experiences, even though theythey all came from the same
biological family.
Um, and they're raised in ourfamily, their experiences with
adoption, how they feel aboutadoption, how they feel in our
space, how they feel about theirbiological family varies so
much.
And one of the things I noticedwith one of my kids is she there

(14:10):
was definitely grief and loss,but not necessarily um, she
wasn't adversarial towardsadoption.
Like she wanted to be adopted.
But, but, but there was stillsomething there.
So I love that guilt piecebecause I think it puts a name
to it.

(14:31):
Um you know, and for me as aparent, like I was trying to
help her navigate.
Like I'm watching all of theseadoptee stories, I'm like, it's
okay if you don't want to beadopted.
She was like, but I do.
And I'm like, no, but but itreally, it's okay.
And she was like, no, but I do.
That's not it, you know?
And so, you know, trying to helpher navigate those feelings and

(14:53):
make her feelings okay, butreally also like listening to
other adoptees and and pullingout what they but not placing
those identities on them either,because each one of them, like I
said, feels very different aboutadoption and and what that means
to them.

SPEAKER_03 (15:11):
100%.
And I think that's true with alladoptees, to be honest.
I I think we see a lot of uhobviously narratives that are
more prevalent.
Um, but um a lot of a lot of theresearch that at least I agree
with on uh that has been done onadoptees um has shown that um

(15:32):
the range of feelings isactually very extreme.
Yeah.
Um and most adoptees fall withinwhat is called a neutral state.
Um and I I how I interpret thatdata is different than I think
how other people haveinterpreted that data.
I have interpreted that data asin adoptees do not feel anger or

(15:54):
um like their adoption was anoverall bad thing.
I do not take that as they felttheir adoption was an overall
good thing.
Um and I think that's how a lotof times that data is
interpreted.
Yes.
Um, and I think that when wethink about adoptee experiences,
even adoptees who are excited tobe adopted, who want to be
adopted, um recognizing thetrauma that exists in family

(16:19):
separation as a whole means thatwe're dealing with complex
layers of loss.
Yep.
And the expression of loss canrange in so many ways.
And I sometimes I get um wearyand and love that parents are
more like, let me know how youfeel, it's okay if you feel that
way, over just like not sayinganything or leaning into their

(16:43):
children, because I think thatwhat you might find, and what I
what I honestly think doeshappen a lot of times is that
children who maybe show noemotion or regret or maybe even
positivity towards adoption aschildren grow into adults who
begin to process it more.

(17:03):
And as they start to process itmore, a new layer of guilt comes
around because they're like, ohman, I wrote all my papers about
how great adoption was, but nowadoption is like really complex
for me.
And now I'm feeling sad.
And what happens if I go back tomy parents now and they like
they still have my like I lovethat I was adopted like paper
hanging up in their room?
And it's like, um, that's youknow what I mean?
That I think is a really realadopte experience.

(17:25):
Um, you know what I mean?
It's also very well depicted inThis Is Us.
Um, I talk about This Is Us alot because I think it it it
just showcases a range ofexperiences so well.
You know, Randall's 35 orsomething, and he goes and finds
his birth dad, and a whole newwave of experiences around his
adoption begins right then.

SPEAKER_00 (17:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (17:43):
Um, and if we can frame our children in that
mindset, I think we can have umlonger time horizons and better
frameworks of maybe how weapproach conversations around
adoption with our children, justlike you're doing.
It's okay, like letting themknow it's okay if you don't like
adoption.
And they might tell you, no, Ilove this, this is the best
thing ever.
But constantly letting themknow, like you're always open to

(18:06):
more complex conversation aboutit, allows that dialogue to
always be able to exist.
Um, and I think when adopteesdon't have that dialogue able to
exist, that is when a lot ofguilt enters the arena, um,
whether it's when they're youngor it's when they're older.

SPEAKER_01 (18:24):
I appreciate that in that as an adopte as an adoptive
parent, like I have noticed Iwas much more vocal with my kids
that were adopted at an olderage than I was with my kids that
were adopted when they were veryyoung.
Um, and and as they're goingthrough different stages of

(18:45):
development.
So I have like two groups ofkids.
I have like my big group, um, myolder kids who are who are
moving into adulthood now.
And that has been a differentseason to process how they feel
about everything.
Um, but my little kids were verylittle when they were adopted.
And now they're moving intomiddle school teenage years and

(19:07):
processing things who they are,who we are, what adoption is.
They're processing everything ina very different way.
And I think that's typical ofjust child development in
general.
Um, as we process our identity,I think all of us go through
that process of chain, you know,viewing our parents differently,
viewing ourselves differently aswe grow.

(19:28):
I'm still not sure how I feelabout myself most days.
Um, but but to really understandthat our our kids may feel
different ways at differentstages and allowing them that
freedom.

SPEAKER_03 (19:44):
Yeah.
100%.
Um, my mom says something thatuh I think is really good about
grief being cyclical.
Um, and um when we presenttogether, she always makes this
point.
Um, because I do think thatthat's a good way to think about
these cycles.
You know what I mean?
When your kids are young, youmight not see any signs of

(20:05):
grief.
But as they start to grow intothese different years, you might
see it in different ways.
Yeah.
Um, behavior, overperformance,perfectionism are all signs as
well.
Um, but then especially as theyget into adulthood, it might
transition again.
Um and just seeing these umthese seasons as all different
things, I think is reallyimportant.
Um and and I think it also like,you know, as you're as you're

(20:27):
finding by keeping thesedoorways to conversation open,
um, it also builds a lot oftrust and attachment by being
prepared or already thinkingabout it within that framework.
Uh because your kids aren'thaving to like wonder if you're
if you've thought about it,wonder if you're okay with it,
wonder if they can talk aboutadoption.

(20:48):
Um and when kids don't have towonder about those things, I
think it really helps them alot.

SPEAKER_01 (20:52):
Yeah, that's good.
Um, well, you brought up cultureand race as well.
So for in our experience, mykids um racially look like me,
but culturally, there are stilla whole lot of differences that
we've had to navigate,especially with my older kids,
um, because they had a worldviewthat was kind of already I mean,

(21:16):
not that it's ever set set, butyou know what I'm saying?
Like they had their own thoughtsand right, they had their own
autonomous view of the world, II guess.
And so that worldview wasn'tframed in our home.
So they had a very culturallydifferent perspective, um, which

(21:36):
is which is fine, but but havingto integrate those things.
But then I do think when you addin the race element, right?
It adds a whole different layer,a whole different dynamic.
Um, and so talk to me a littlebit about that, especially
growing up with siblings that donot necessarily look like you.

SPEAKER_03 (21:56):
Yeah.
Um, and a lot of good pointsthere um about culture versus
race, and and I think that'sreally good to keep in mind,
especially with older kids.
Um, for me, I think that um racein in my in how I was raised was
a very big afterthought.

(22:16):
Um it was certainly noticed.
So, right, like let's, you know,it's hard, it's hard when you
have like an all-white family.
I think I have like a, I'm notsure if this is a video podcast,
but like there's a picture of myfamily, right?
It's like hard not to tell whichone is.
Um it was never not aconversation, right?
So race was in one senserecognized, yeah.

(22:40):
Um, but it was never recognizedas uh as an experience that
might be different than theirs,like on a life level.
It was it was it was anappearance difference.
Yep.
Um and um in some ways we mightlike say, like, okay, great,

(23:02):
like treat everybody the same,like good, you know, we want
kids to not feel like they'redifferent.
Um, and yes, that is true to onedegree, but the challenge I
think in transracial adoption isthat when we don't recognize
race at all or haveconversations about race, when
the world treats your childdifferently because of their

(23:25):
because of their race, then theyare left confused, navigated,
and hurt um by this.
And so for me, that was prettymuch the instance.
I learned about a lot of racialissues on the internet, and that
left me really confused on howto navigate what was gonna
happen to me as an adult, likewhat my experience was gonna be.

(23:46):
Right.
Um and then as soon as I went tocollege and I started
experiencing bias um and kids inmy dorm room who were white, uh,
wanting to be able to call methe N-word, like and these
things, like I didn't know howto navigate them.
Yeah, so this is this is not anunusual experience for
transracial adoptees either.

(24:06):
Like my story, I don't think, isparticularly unique.
This is this is the story that Ihear across a lot of adoptees
that are especially my age andand older.
And uh that that's also how itwas growing up.
I mean, my siblings didn'tdidn't know didn't know me or

(24:28):
think of me as anything otherthan their brother.
And so when I eventually broughtrace up as a topic in my family,
not only were my parentsconfused, but I think also my
siblings were confused.

SPEAKER_00 (24:42):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (24:43):
Um, because they never had to see me outside of
the framework of their brother.
They were also never taught thatI might have a different
experience.

SPEAKER_00 (24:50):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (24:51):
And so it was kind of a shock to the whole family.
And then as my parents becamemore educated, as we got closer
and started having theseconversations more, my siblings
were actually able to start torecognize and note the ways in
which um I was treateddifferently that I didn't even
notice.
They were able to make sense ofcomments that were made to me,

(25:14):
but not them.
Um, and then as they grew into,you know, now almost all my
siblings are adults except formy youngest brother.
But now, even as adults, theyare much more aware of how race
plays a factor, not only in mylife, but in in culture and
society.
They can they can actually seeit.
Um, and I think that's notprobably only due to me, me, but

(25:37):
it definitely has a large partto do with the conversation that
I brought into our home.
And that I think helped us allas a family feel a lot closer.
Um I definitely experiencedthings growing up that I didn't
even recognize as racism, youknow, like my friends leaving
fried chicken and watermelon onmy parents' doorstep for my 16th

(25:59):
birthday.
Um, my parents will talk abouthair policies that what I was
the only one who had to follow.

SPEAKER_00 (26:05):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (26:06):
Um and so there were these things that were happening
that uh my parents certainly attimes were advocating against,
but they were still happeningwithout me understanding that
these were due to me beingracially different.

SPEAKER_02 (26:20):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (26:21):
And I think a lot of parents understand to some
degree like racism and bias, buttheir intention, as most good
parents, is to protect theirchildren, right?
And so they think aboutprotection instead of education.
And and and in reality, when itcomes to transracial adoption,

(26:41):
especially as your kid isgetting older, they need a mix
of these things.
They need to be protected,obviously, from hard and heavy
things, but they need tounderstand these things, right?
And so if, you know, for me itwas a choir, the choir was
trying to make me cut my afro,but there was another white kid
that had an afro, and so myparents brought it up.

(27:01):
Um, and so in like in in thosekinds of moments, those are a
moment where you know you canalso teach your kid how to
advocate for themselves.

SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
Yep.

SPEAKER_03 (27:10):
Um, same thing with the fried chicken and
watermelon, right?
My mom talks about being soupset about that, but I wasn't
upset about that because Ididn't understand, like I didn't
understand this the contextbehind it.
Right?
I didn't understand that thiswould be something offensive.
And so um there is a really bigelement, I think, when it comes

(27:30):
to raising transracial adopteesthat that is educating them on
how to navigate theseexperiences that will inevitably
happen to them.

SPEAKER_01 (27:38):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I we experience so my um sonwent to school with some kids.
There was a group of like 10guys, I mean, just best friends,
like the great, great, greatgroup of kids.
Like just a great group of kids.
Um, and I it must have been, Imean, they were driving, so it

(28:00):
must have been their sophomorejunior year in high school.
They're over at a friend's houseand uh we're going to play
basically hide and go seekoutside.
They wanted to play hide and goseek in the neighborhood.
And uh two of the the black boyssaid, we can't do that.
That's not safe for us.

(28:22):
Um, because if somebody sees usrunning around in their yard,
they could think somethingdifferent, right?
And obviously their parents hadtaught them these nuances, these
things to keep them safe, right?
And I remember thinking, gosh,one, how how sad, how sad that

(28:43):
here's a group of 16 and17-year-old boys that want to
play hide and seek.
They're not out partying,they're not out doing things,
they just want to play hide andseek.
But also as a parent, if I had achild that looked different than
me in my home, I would neverthink to teach them that.

unknown (29:00):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (29:01):
I would never think to teach them that.
Um, I mean, our community isgreat.
I love our community.
Um but even in our greatcommunity, I the the forethought
of their parents to teach andtheir parents knew to teach them
that because of their ownexperiences, because they had

(29:22):
had similar experiences, right?
But as somebody who's neverexperienced that, I would never
think to teach that.
And so I my best friend in highschool and growing up was black,
and I called her and I was like,Hey, did you experience any of
these things in high school andcollege?
And she said, kind of similar toyou, not as much in high school,

(29:44):
in college and as she became anadult, a little bit more, but
her brother experienced a lot ofthem growing up.
And and I thought, how naive wasI just to kind of walk in
ignorance this whole time andnot really.
Really think about it.
I mean, you know, I was kind oflike you, like, I will protect

(30:04):
somebody if I see somethinggoing on.
I'm gonna step in to protect,but not thinking about the work
that has to be done to prepareyour kids for the world when
they look different.

SPEAKER_03 (30:16):
Yeah.
I mean, the hide and go seekstory is so real.
Um yeah, I mean, that's justsuch a great um, I think,
example of the the preparationthat's needed that doesn't
usually exist in transracialhomes.

SPEAKER_00 (30:30):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (30:31):
Um, I do a I do a training for transracial
parents, and one of the sectionsis like conversations about like
public behavior.
And in that, like I I might evenend up using that hide and go
seek story, to be honest,because it's such a good one.
But usually what I use isexamples of um like Nerf guns
and BB guns and and um reallythis idea of helping our

(30:56):
children be more mindful abouttheir behavior and what somebody
passing by might think.
Um, because I think a lot ofparents are um unsure how to
navigate the conversationbecause they don't want to make
the world a big and bad place.
They don't want what they don'twant to do is paint this picture
like the whole world is bad.

(31:16):
And I usually try to frame theseas you can't just like you don't
know who's driving by.
And so what we're doing is we'rehelping our kids be more mindful
in the off chance somebody witha bias, with a prejudice is
passing by um and may see them.
Just like those kids werethoughtful, you know, we
shouldn't play hide and seekbecause we don't know what

(31:37):
somebody may perceive.
And that's a really importantskill for transracial parents to
be able to do is to be able tohelp their kids be thoughtful
about what they do, when they doit, and where they do it, um,
not usually taking away thebehavior, um, but actually just
being mindful about where theydo it so that their children

(32:01):
understand how to navigate theworld safely.
Because there's also a lot ofstories of transracial adoptees
uh having the police called onthem.

SPEAKER_00 (32:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (32:10):
And so, you know, using these as kind of
frameworks to think about okay,how do we how do we just reframe
things for our kids tounderstand what other people
might think of them off the batand how to redirect things in a
more positive direction?
I always say, like, you know, ifyou're playing with Nerf or BB
guns, play in a backyard insteadof a front yard, right?

SPEAKER_00 (32:30):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (32:31):
You know, play away from open roads instead of, you
know, right, you know, don't berunning around the neighborhood.
Um, but you know, play in a, youknow, if you're gonna do that,
try to go to an enclosed areawhere maybe there's some woods
or something like that, butyou're not gonna be seen by
random, you know, strangers.
And helping our kids be mindfulabout these things, I think, is
a really important skill as theystart to spend more and more

(32:54):
time away from us.

SPEAKER_00 (32:55):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (32:56):
How do you do that though, Isaac, in a way that
doesn't create the narrativethat there's something wrong
with their race?
Does that make sense?
Like, how do you have thoseconversations?
Because I I don't I don't know Iwould know how to have those
conversations delicately enoughto where I'm I'm also helping my

(33:21):
child understand the beauty intheir culture and their race and
their identity, but but seeingsome of the challenges as well.

SPEAKER_03 (33:30):
Yeah, that's a really great question.
Um, and I and I do break thisdown in my book very um
strategically because I usuallythink that these things um they
happen in seasons.
And so um I in my book I give abreakdown of the best things to
do from pretty much zero toeighteen, and it goes from like
zero to five, five to twelve,twelve to eighteen, eighteen and

(33:50):
beyond.
And usually what I say is thatthe ideal is that you're hitting
each phase because each phasekind of builds upon each other.
And so obviously, in certainadoptions that are older, you
might not be able to, but um, inthe zero to five, I think is
actually where you like have alot of this narrative built in
that you're trying to do aboutthem being beautiful.

(34:12):
Um, because I always say in zeroto five, you're creating the
home that celebrates differenceand doesn't make them feel weird
for being different.
So it's you know them seeingthemselves depicted in movies
and books and art and thingslike that.
Um, and it's also how you speakabout their skin and how you
treat hair time, which is a bigone.
Um hair is a big one that can uhit can be detrimental for

(34:33):
adoptees, right?
They can have only negativememories of their hair and then
all they want to do is like havetheir hair straightened.
Um, and so I think you set theframework for a lot of these
things in their early years.
Um, and obviously, if you'resetting the framework of these
things in the early years,positivity around their culture,
positivity around their race, asyou start to get into the more

(34:55):
complex things, they're actuallynot uh, I think, questioning as
much whether they are whetherlike their race is bad or not,
uh, which is why we don'tnecessarily see that dialogue um
go down in like homes of thesame race, right?
Right.
Hispanic or black or Asianhouseholds who are having these
same conversations.

(35:15):
They're growing up in cult,they're seeing themselves
represented, they're seeingthemselves positively.
And so when they're havingconversations around um what
they may experience, their firstthought is not that something is
wrong with them.

SPEAKER_00 (35:27):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (35:27):
And I think where you might find this happen with
transracial adoptees is if theygrow up in communities where
they don't see themselvesrepresented, they don't see
themselves, in a sense,celebrated, um, right?
Kids' toys, books, movies,things like that, um, they
might, when you go to have theseconversations, because it might
be one of the first times thatthey're really having a
conversation about their race,start to have a more complex

(35:50):
experience, which might involvethinking something is wrong with
them.
And so I think how yourenvironment is set up plays a
big role in how theseconversations happen.
And when you go into theseconversations, I think it's
important to one, be verystrategic about age
appropriateness and thinkingabout building upon a

(36:12):
conversation, not a one-timeconversation.
Um, a lot of times I think whenwe talk about transracial
adoption, we we almost talkabout it like the talk.
You know what I mean?
Like it's gonna be this like onetime.
You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 (36:26):
We're like prepping for which the talk also
shouldn't be a one-time thing.
It should be an ongoingconversation, but absolutely,
absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 (36:35):
We could do another podcast about that too.
Um so um, but yeah, that's Ithink that's how a lot of people
think about it.
I think that they think liketheir kids gonna hit their kids
gonna ask about race one day,and they're gonna like zone in
and they're gonna have the raceconversation, and that's gonna
be kind of it.
Um, but these these moments theyhappen, I think, throughout your

(36:56):
child's life, and they're not inthese big ways.
Like I said, like how you talkabout your child's hair and how
you treat that time learning howto do their hair, teaching them
how to do their hair, that is arace conversation.
Um it's not the raceconversation we're thinking of
because we're always thinkingabout them in like racism and
like bias context, but that is acultural identity moment.

(37:19):
And so that is a raceconversation about teaching them
self-love, um, which we allneed.
Um so when you do get intohaving actual conversations
about um race, bias, racism, Ithink that starting early in in
frameworks, and usually these,I'm not gonna lie, usually these

(37:40):
these happen pretty earlybecause kids, I think,
especially nowadays, are eitherhaving experiences earlier or
learning about things on theinternet earlier.
And so um I think these thingshappen earlier, whether it's a
kid that said a slur that heheard on you know TikTok or
YouTube at school, um, or it's avideo your kids come across,

(38:02):
they might come across umracialized content earlier.
And I think one of the ways thatparents can approach this is uh
by one in the at least theframework that I wrote for this,
is that it's one like naming thething.
So um, in a sense, like your kidis eight years old and they get
followed around a grocery store.

(38:23):
What we might say in thatinstance is that um, hey, some
people um have you know personalbias uh because of your skin
tone, and that's why that washappening, right?
That's why you're being followedaround the store.
We don't think that's right, butif that ever happens, you can
come to us.

(38:44):
And I I like this as a veryelementary framework because um
it names action, which I thinkis really important, especially
as your kids become more aware.
Um, so you could also thinkabout using this in the context
of somebody um making a commentin a grocery store to you guys
together, right?
Um, it frames you against it.

(39:05):
So that's that's another partthat I think is really important
because then uh an adoptee mightnot be confused about whether
that behavior was wrong orright.
Um so it frames the action aswrong, and then it also opens up
the doorway to continuedconversation.
So it lets them know when thesethings happen, you can always
come to me.
Um and so then there's no feararound if this happens again,

(39:28):
um, where should I go?
What should I do?
You know, is you know, ifespecially if they don't know if
it's right or wrong, they mightsay, well, maybe that's what my
mom or dad would have done too.
Um and so that's a very, Ithink, simple frame that parents
can use from an early age tostart the conversation.

(39:49):
And then you build upon thatconversation as they get older
into those more mindfulconversations, into those more
driving conversations, in thosekind of hard conversations about
maybe how to think about lawenforcement, right?

SPEAKER_00 (40:03):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (40:04):
And so, you know, I think that if parents learn to
have those smaller frameconversations, the bigger ones
actually get easier.

SPEAKER_01 (40:13):
That's that's really good.
Well, how do you, I mean, Iimagine that growing up in a an
all-white family where nobodylooks like you, um, there's
elements of belonging, right?
Where you're trying to figureout where you belong.
And so how do parents help theirkids um feel like they belong,

(40:39):
even though there might bedifferences?

SPEAKER_03 (40:41):
Yeah.
Uh I mean I think this answer isalmost all community.
Um, the communities that youraise them in, I think, are the
things that matter the mosthere.
Um, it's hard to understandbelonging when you're like the
only person of this race atchurch or um at school.
Um, it's hard to understandbelonging um in these contexts

(41:05):
where you might be the only kidwho's adopted.
So um we, you know, we talkabout race a lot, which I think
is important, but I thinkthere's also an element of
adoptee experiences.
And so only foster kid as well,right?
So you can take all theseexperiences and say, you know,
if we want to build a positivesense of belonging, we're going
to want to think about acommunity that is like adoption

(41:27):
foster care competent.
Um, right.
Um, a whole nother side of myexperience that was hard and
detrimental was the ways inwhich the community I grew up in
did not understand adoption anddisregarded adoption grief and
loss, and uh, you know, viewedme as a troubled kid instead of
a kid that was experiencing lossand trying to navigate it.

(41:49):
Right.
Um so these communities also Ithink matter a lot for adoptees
and can be a little bit hard tofind, but uh depending on where
you're at, there is usually likesome kind of adoption or foster
care community.
Um and so that's one layer of Ithink belonging that's really
important.
Um and then, you know, when itcomes to racial identity, I
think it's you know, it's aboutbeing involved in things where

(42:11):
they would see themselves, uh,whether it's the church you go
to, the school you've decided tosend them to, uh, the programs
you've decided to be a part of.
Um, and then also making thesethings like um like family
things.
I think a lot of times um it canbe tempting or like parents can
think about this as like justsomething like Jimmy does,
right?
Um but a lot of times that'smore isolating.

(42:33):
Um that's not how we would wantto, like that's not how we would
feel like we belonged either.
If like our parents weredropping us off at this thing
and then coming back to get us,um, right?
That's not how we I think buildbelonging or cultural identity
for children.
And so it's about what you do asa family, where you go as a
family.

SPEAKER_02 (42:49):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (42:49):
Um and can there be spaces that um are
representative of your familyand your child's culture in the
communities that you're in?
And I think the more it's awhole family thing, the more you
build that sense of belonging.
Um, I give ideas of likefestivals, like um a lot of
times parents will see theirkids struggling and then all of

(43:11):
a sudden they'll want to startgoing to like like the African
American festival, right?
Um but by the time your child'slike eight, nine, ten, like it's
it's not too late.
Like your child still mightenjoy it, but it becomes a very
evident we're just doing thisnow because of this.
Yeah.
Whereas like if you had beengoing every year as a family for
their whole time being adopted,they would actually never know,

(43:34):
they would never know anotherexperience.
Yeah.
And so that sense of theirculture belonging in your
regular routine would already beinstilled.
Um, and so you might haveavoided the challenge in the
first place, or you might havealready had an outlet to go for
the challenge in the first placebecause you've been building
this community for years.
Um, and so just reframing ourthoughts about um what builds

(43:54):
belong and how to do it, I thinkis really important.
Um, and viewing this as like afamily thing, not just like for
our child, even though I knowthe spoiler alert is that it is
for you know what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 (44:06):
But well, I I think it is for the child, but I think
that it can be for the wholefamily and and not just going to
events of that particularchild's culture, but really
exposing to our our kids to alldifferent cultures, and
everybody may not have thosesame.
So I live in Metro Atlanta, andso we have you can do anything,

(44:30):
like there is anything anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 (44:33):
I know.

SPEAKER_01 (44:34):
Okay, I mean, there is no excuse.
You can you can go to culturalevents of all different
cultures, um, and but reallyexposing our kids to those
different environments just ingeneral creates a more whole
world view, I think.
Absolutely for us and for them.

SPEAKER_03 (44:56):
Yeah, I think it does entirely.
Um, and what a great area.
I mean, I loved living inAtlanta.
Um, and so yeah, no, I totallyagree.
It can be it can be any race andculture.
Um, I think obviously if youhave a kid of one race, maybe
special emphasis, but I thinkthis yeah, yeah, there is this
this exposure and and expandingour worldview never hurts
anybody.
Yeah, I mean we always talkabout this in the frame of

(45:17):
transracial adoption, but I Itend to usually think like this
would probably be good foranybody, like you know what I
mean?
Like just going outside of ourregular world like always helps
us in the find expansion.
It's like when people go to athird world country or like uh
out international for like amonth, they come back like
almost like brand new people.
Yeah, and it's like you couldactually do that in your

(45:39):
backyard too many times.

SPEAKER_01 (45:41):
Absolutely, absolutely, but it's funny.
My my 19-year-old um is isadopted and you know, is just
trying to figure out as she'stransitioning to adulthood, is
trying to figure out someidentity things, and she is
actually going to Japan forthree months next year.
Um, and she's preparing for thatright now.

(46:02):
So I'm really excited about thatexperience for her just to kind
of get a different vision.
My um one of my other kids hasdone a bunch of mission trips,
and so, you know, hisperspective of the world is
different because of that.
And so to really um for all ofus to have those experiences

(46:23):
that broaden the way that we seepeople, that we see life, that
we see the world in general, Ithink is always really good.

SPEAKER_03 (46:31):
Yeah, makes a huge difference.

SPEAKER_01 (46:33):
You mentioned, you know, some ways that parents can
really invest in their kids andhelp them belong and help to
start having some of theseconversations.
Um, but one of the things that Ihave heard you say is talking
about how parents can't fixeverything for our kids, right?

(46:53):
So we can't fix the biases ofother people, which is why we
educate.
We can't fix um, you know, ourkids' grief and loss and trauma,
right?
So talk to me a little bit aboutthat.
And if our job isn't to fix it,because I don't think that's
just an adoptive parent thing.
I think that's an all-parentthing.
We want to fix everything forour kids so that they have, you

(47:14):
know, a happy life.
We don't want them to hurt, wedon't want them to feel pain.
Um, but especially as anadoptive parent, I think we step
into these spaces and wanna andwant to fix things for our kids.
Um, so what is our role and howdo we walk through that role
well?

SPEAKER_03 (47:34):
Yeah, very good question.
Um, I think that our role or therole of an adoptive parent, just
to center that experience, umthe the role of an adoptive
parent is to be like a guide anda partner through the

(47:55):
complexities of the adoptionexperience.
And obviously there is a role ofparent, right?
So we're not taking that off thetable, right?
Sure, sure, sure.
But I think that if we think ofourselves as more of um a guide,
more of a support through thisexperience, the the actions in

(48:18):
which we take might bedifferent, right?
If we're trying to fix, we'relike trying to like block a
bunch of stuff.
We're like, we're blocking, youknow, birth mom's history, birth
dad's history, and yeah, we'reblocking the racial experiences,
and we're doing a ton ofprotecting.
But if we're like guiding andsupporting through, we might

(48:39):
reframe how we think about it.
So we might say, Well, becauseI'm a parent and because there
is a protection role of being aparent, I need to be thoughtful
about how these things entertheir world, but I don't need to
hide them or protect them fromthem in general.
And so you might be able to say,Well, at some point they're

(49:00):
gonna be curious about theiradoption, why they ended up in
this, why they ended up in thishome.
And birth parents have a complexstory, hard story, not a story
that's for a three-year-old.
So, how do we think aboutguiding them through their story
in a way that um doesn't frameus against their birth parent,

(49:20):
but tells them the truth andprepares them for adulthood.
So we might, when they're fiveand ask, say, hey, your parents
struggled, let's just saysubstance is the issue.
Your parents just struggled alittle bit with different uh,
you know, substances, differentthings, and because of that,
they couldn't raise you.
And I would love to tell youmore, um, but we want you to

(49:40):
know just like for now thatthat's the reason, right?
Yeah, and then you might be ableto build upon that story and
say, well, hey, you know, it wassubstance this and it was this
and it was that, because there'salways usually more to the
story, right?

SPEAKER_02 (49:52):
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (49:53):
Um but you think about guiding them through the
journey versus protecting themfrom it.
And a lot of adoptees, for a mixof reasons, it's not just
because of protection, but for amix of reasons have been like
hidden from their story, hiddenfrom hard things, hidden from
the realities.

(50:14):
And I think one of the layers isprotection, but usually another
one is that this that adoptedparents want to avoid the idea
of difference.
They want to avoid the idea oftheir feeling like their adopted
kid is adopted.
And so they want to avoid theseconversations in general, which
is another reason why thinkingabout yourself as a support
system through the journey, as aguide through the journey, um,

(50:34):
is a better framework.
Um, and so that's that would bemy I guess my answer to that
question, which you know, Ithink it could probably be built
upon, but you can't you can'tfix pretty much anything that is
surrounded with that is aroundthe ideas of grief and loss.

SPEAKER_00 (50:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (50:54):
Um you can obviously fix environment, right?
That's what you're doing, right?
You're giving your child um allthe all the pros of adoption
that we talk about, like moresecurity, uh, ideally a better,
you know, childhood, um, andbetter opportunities, right?
These are the things that in asense you I think quote unquote
fix as an adoptive parent,right?

SPEAKER_01 (51:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (51:16):
Um these are these are the fixes.
Everything else isn't usuallynot fixable.
So you are figuring out, okay,as my child is going to struggle
in their own way, right?
Because every adoptee will bedifferent with these elements of
grief and loss, with identity,with navigating at some point uh
this big uh possible mystery,but not always a mystery, of

(51:39):
birth parent.
Um, I have to figure out how amI going to best support them and
guide them through it.
And if you really think abouthow to best support them and
guide them through it, you'llthink about like what if other
adoptees needed?
What do some of these principlesof TBRI teach?
How do we think about sharinghard things in in ways that

(52:00):
children can understand?
But then how do we build uponthose conversations as they get
older and can handle moreinformation?
Um, and that is an incredibly, Ithink, powerful thing for
adoptive parents to do is toreally in each season be
supporting their kids throughthis journey and not leaving

(52:20):
them to have to navigate it ontheir own, which is what I think
most adoptees, um, whether theirparents mean to or not, do feel
is that maybe we can talk aboutone side of it, we can't talk
about another.
Um, and so really becoming thissupport and guide for your
child, I think also builds a slike a builds a bond and

(52:45):
attachment that is usually, fromwhat I've seen, is usually
what's being pursued and tryingto fix.
And trying to fix, you're tryingto normalize, build a bond,
build attachment, build, youknow, we're not different.
Um so let me fix all thesethings, but it actually usually
is connected through being seen.

(53:06):
Uh it's one of the reasons whywe say like adoptees need to
feel seen, heard, and valued.
Um, because adoptees can tellwhen they're not being seen.
Um, most adoptees um will willresonate with feelings of not
being seen, not being seen astheir full self.
Um, not being seen either as anadoptee, as a child of a
different race, um, as somebodynavigating grief and loss.
And when they're not heard, theyhaven't felt heard um in that

(53:29):
struggle, in their complexfeelings, uh, they notice that.
And then ultimately, I thinkthey don't feel valued because
they don't feel valued as a fullperson.
They feel valued as um as abyproduct of adoption.
Um and if your children don'tfeel seen, heard, and valued,
your your layer of attachmentand bonding ha has not even

(53:52):
reached its its full potential.

SPEAKER_01 (53:54):
Yeah, yeah.
I yeah, I think that as adoptiveparents, I mean, most of the
adoptive parents that I know,like we want that.
We want our kids to be seen,heard, and valued.
I think a lot of times our ownfears pop up and we act out of
our fear or or we don't, we justdon't know what to do.

(54:15):
So I love all the informationthat you have given us and the
guidance.
I think, and you've been able toverbalize it so well so that as
parents, we can kind of see yourperspective and see a different
route to kind of get to thatsame end that I think we we all

(54:36):
want.

SPEAKER_03 (54:37):
That's the goal.
As much practicality as possibleis what I try to do.
Uh even if it comes out a littlesideways.
Um, I I try to always have themost the most practical way I
can get things out to parentsbecause I think that's what's
missing a lot in this space.
I agree.
Here's how we actually do itinstead of like the idea of it.

(54:57):
Sure.

SPEAKER_01 (54:58):
Sure.
Yep.
Well, Isaac, how can listenersfind you?
Uh you have been so helpful.
I think even in the shortconversation today, I know that
listeners will want to find youand find your resources.

SPEAKER_03 (55:11):
Yeah, thank you.
Um, so on Instagram, I'm justlike Isaac underscore edder,
I-sa-c underscore e-t-t-e-r.
Um, and so I share a lot ofstuff on my personal Instagram.
Um, and so if you are anadoptive parent, foster parent
looking for uh just freeresources and encouragement
every week you can go to youknow www.parentingdifferent.com

(55:34):
and sign up for our newsletter.
It is completely free.
Um, or you can follow parentingdifferent on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 (55:41):
Awesome.
And I will link all of thosethings in the show notes.
Um, but Isaac, this has been sohelpful.
Um, I think really just gainingyour perspective and just the
way that you have interactedwith other people and have kind
of compiled um lots of differentperspectives to be able to set

(56:02):
up a framework to really helpfoster an adoptive parents.
I think is crucial.

SPEAKER_03 (56:06):
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate it.
And thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 (56:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
What a rich conversation.
I'm so thankful to Isaac forsharing his story and
perspective with such honestyand grace.
His insight reminds us thatadoption doesn't end when the
papers are signed.
It is a lifelong journey ofconnection, identity, and growth
for both our kids and for us asparents.

(56:30):
As foster and adoptive parents,this month isn't just about
awareness, it's about advocacy.
We get to use our voices, ourexperiences, and our families to
remind the world that everychild deserves to belong.
Sometimes that looks likecheering on another family
stepping into the process.
And sometimes it looks likedoing the hard heart work to

(56:52):
love our kids well, especiallywhen their stories hold
complexity and pain.
If this episode encouraged you,would you take a moment to share
it with another foster adoptiveparent this month?
Let's keep spreading awarenessand building community of
families who love well and whoadvocate boldly.
Let's take a minute to praytogether as we wrap up.

(57:15):
We thank you, Father, for thegift of these families, for
every parent listening today,Lord, who shows up day after day
to love, nurture, and fight forthe hearts of their children.
You see every unseen act oflove.
You see every tear, everywhispered prayer.
Lord, help us to parent withwisdom and compassion.

(57:37):
Teach us to hold space for ourchildren's stories, the beauty
and the brokenness, and to modelyour steadfast love in the midst
of it all.
Give us courage to speak up forothers who need families and to
keep building communities whereadoption and foster care are
understood and supported.
We lift up every child stillwaiting for belonging, Lord, and

(58:00):
every family walking through thelifelong work of healing.
Let your grace cover every gapthat we cannot fill, and may our
homes reflect your heart, aplace of safety, truth, and
unconditional love.
In Jesus' name, amen.