January 15, 2025 • 35 mins
Jonna Stein's "Untangling Hope" beautifully captures the intricate emotions of a foster child navigating trauma and the longing for belonging. In our discussion, we explore themes of empathy, understanding trauma, and the importance of fostering conversations about these experiences among parents, children, and their communities.
• Exploring the journey of a foster child in "Untangling Hope"
• Understanding the difference between fitting in and belonging
• Importance of compassion in caregiving
• Insights into a child's perspective on trauma and resilience
• Facilitation of dialogue about foster care in families and communities
• Call for empathy and education about experiences of children in care
Links:
Johnnastein.com
Order the Book: https://www.amazon.com/Untangling-Hope-Johnna-Stein/dp/B0CY2B1TRB
I'd love to hear from you! Send me a text!
Connect with me on Instagram: @Fosterparentwell
@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/
Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:46):
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I hope your January is off to agreat start.
We got some snow last week andmy kids were living their best
(01:07):
life.
I live in Georgia, so we don'tget snow very often.
I think I mentioned it lastweek on the podcast that they
were super excited about it.
Y'all.
They were outside for hours,did not complain about the cold,
didn't complain about anything,and we didn't even have that
much snow, but they were havingthe time of their lives.
So I hope that your January isgoing well.
(01:29):
I know January can always besuper rough because a lot of
times our kids are cooped upinside instead of being able to
get out a little bit more, so itcan be rough on all of us, but
I hope that you are hanging inthere Well.
Today we are talking to JonnaStein.
Jonna is the author of a newbook called Untangling Hope.
(01:51):
She serves as the VP ofCreative Resources at Promise
686.
She also is a TBRI practitioner, an award-winning children's
writer and a debut author ofthis new novel, untangling Hope.
That's for kids ages 9 through13.
Once her two kids went off tocollege, she and her Dutch
(02:13):
husband became foster parentsand have cared for more than 30
bonus children.
They try to keep their home andhearts open to the next child
or young adult who needs a softplace to land.
She loves developing resourcesto equip churches to serve and
to find their fit in the childwelfare continuum.
I think you are going to lovethis conversation that I have
(02:35):
with Jonna.
We're going to dive into herbook, which is about a foster
child, and we are going to talkabout some of the challenge that
her character faces, on top ofhow that relates to our kids
that are in our homes and whatwe do about it.
So let's get to it.
Well, hey, jada, welcome to thepodcast.
I am so excited to have you onhere today.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, thank you so much, Nicole.
I'm excited to be here.
I've been listening to yourpodcast and I just love what
you've been sharing.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Thank you.
Well, tell me a little bitabout yourself and what you do.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Okay.
So I think very important is I'mmarried to a really great
husband who is actually fromHolland, so we have lived on
both sides of the pond, as wesay, but our recent stint in the
US has been for 17 years, sowe've been here for a while, and
I think it was about in 2012,.
(03:33):
Our hearts were being stirredsort of to do foster care or
think about foster care in ourchurch.
At the same time, I was sort ofthinking about I really wanted
to work at a nonprofit andapplied to a bunch of nonprofits
but didn't get accepted for aninterview anywhere.
And then, out of the blue, gota call from a friend who said
(03:54):
hey, I'm going to be working atPromise 686, this adoption and
foster care nonprofit, and theyneed another person.
Do you want to work with me?
And so that's how I got invitedto work at Promise long ago in
2012.
And at the same time wasbecoming a foster family.
So we started our impacttraining the same month that I
(04:15):
started my job.
So I was kind of learning as Iwent, so it was like a fire hose
.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
You're getting it from all sides.
You're getting the parent sideof the training.
You're getting the parent sideof the training.
You're getting the professionalside of the training.
You're just jumping right in.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, so that was how I got started in what I'm doing
.
So I've been there, for I'vebeen at Promise for 12 years and
my job has grown a little bitsince then.
And now I get to help write ourcurriculum and trainings for
the churches who set up fosterand adoption ministries, which
we call family advocacyministries, and so I like to
(04:51):
pinch myself sometimes because Ithink gosh, part of my job is I
get to write for a living, soit's really fun.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That's amazing.
So now my church is a PromiseChurch.
But for those people that don'tknow what Promise 686 is, why
don't you tell everybody whatyou guys do?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Right.
So our name is based on a verse, psalm 68, 6, which is God sets
the lonely in families, and wereally just love to mobilize the
local church to servevulnerable families and children
.
So that means you know,anywhere on the continuum before
(05:29):
foster care, which we you knowrefer to as prevention, or once
children are in foster care, orthen after foster care, where
they're either reuniting withtheir families or connecting
with a forever family.
So our job is really just toempower and equip and mobilize
the local church to do that work.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That's beautiful.
I love that mission.
It's such a beautiful gift tosee the church kind of rise up
in this world, in this ministryin our communities, to be able
to serve children and familiesin that way, so I love the
support that you guys provide.
Well, you also just finishedanother book, so tell me a
(06:11):
little bit about you writing andwhat that looks like.
I know you talked about forPromise that you write
curriculum, but what does itlook like to write in a
different style?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, so I've always wanted to write and I've written
poetry just kind of for fun andI used to write children's
church curriculum and that wasreally creative.
It wasn't a book, but it was.
You know, you're writing skitsand things like that.
And then when we moved to theUnited States, I decided, okay,
(06:42):
I'm really going to do thiswriting thing.
United States, I decided, okay,I'm really going to do this
writing thing.
And so I started writinganother middle grade.
That was my first novel and itwas pretty terrible.
But the person who reviewed itsaid that I had good voice and I
was like, okay, that's hard tobuy or fix, but I can fix a plot
(07:03):
, I could do that.
So I just kept working at itand in the meantime I just
started writing stories formagazines because I understood
that there was a big audience.
If a magazine got in the handsof a family, usually five to 10
people would read it, so unlikea book where just one person
reads it.
So I got really motivated and Iwrote for a variety of
(07:25):
magazines and then just stillhad this urge to write a novel.
But it's hard to write a novel.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And it takes a lot of time when you're doing all of
this other stuff too.
I mean, this is on top of yourregular job and you know you've
been fostering through this timeand all of this stuff, like
that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, it probably took.
By the time it got topublication from when I wrote
the first words is about fiveyears, you know, and there were
probably like 25 iterations ofthe book at least.
So it does.
It just takes a while to likerewrite and trying to figure out
like what is the meat of thestory and what are the good
things.
That kind of come out whenyou're initially writing that
(08:11):
naturally, and then you go like,oh, that's a really good idea.
Okay, I'm going to focus onthat one a little more.
So, yeah, it was a long process, but it was.
I loved writing this book.
This is my fourth one that I'vewritten.
I'm the only one worthy of likea public viewing, but, um, but
(08:32):
I loved writing this book.
I never got tired of thecharacters and I just really
enjoyed trying to make it, youknow, the best it could be.
So, uh, it just took a while.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Well, listen, I mean that is what it takes, though.
With anything I mean you thinkabout anything that you do you
have to learn, you have topractice, you have to go through
those seasons, right, like Imean that's true with anything.
You don't just jump in andautomatically know how to do
everything perfectly.
So I mean that's a big deal tobe able to like really pour out
(09:08):
in something that you love andbeing creative or whatever, and
then get to a point where youcan be published.
That's a really I mean that's areally big, big deal.
So tell me about the book andwho is your kind of intended
audience?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
So the book is called Untangling Hope and it's about
an 11-year-old girl who's aboutto turn 12.
She's been in foster care forthree years and she's bounced
around a variety of homesbecause she's had some behaviors
that happen when childrenexperience trauma and when the
caregivers don't reallyunderstand that that's a trauma
(09:43):
reaction, they react differently.
She was also in our story.
It's fictional, but not in allthe best homes.
So we read a little bit aboutthat.
And then she lands in herseventh foster home with a young
widow who's previously onlytaken little kids who don't talk
.
But the case manager felt thatthis would be a really good
(10:08):
match, and she was right.
And so it's about this girl,hope, really learning to belong
learning to belong in a family,at school, with friends.
In the beginning of the bookshe's really trying to fit in,
(10:29):
but fitting in is very differentthan actually belonging, and so
she just has to go on thatjourney.
And she's very tired of being infoster care and everyone making
decisions for her.
So she devises a secret plan toget out of foster care, which
is really hard to do when you'reonly 11 years old and she needs
a phone to do it.
So then she's also trying tofigure out how to get her hands
(10:49):
on a phone, and so you knowthere's a lot of suspense as far
as that goes of her.
Is she going to get caughtdoing these things?
And in the end, her secret planis that she has a cousin who is
on a reality show out in LosAngeles and this story is taking
place in Georgia and she mether when she was real little and
(11:11):
she's just wondering if hercousin is going to remember her
and she's trying to get a holdof her.
And you know I'm not going totell the end because that will
be a spoiler.
Yes, I want people to go getthe book and read it for
themselves, but it adds a littlespice to the story, which makes
it really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's awesome.
Now I know you said the storyis fictional, but the main
character, hope.
Is she completely fictional oris she based on a real person?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, that is a great question.
We have had more than 30, whatI like to call bonus children,
who've been in our home from theage of eight till 18.
We've also had pregnant teens.
So we've kind of run the gamutin our family.
And Hope is really not based onany one kid that was in our
home.
(11:58):
Some of her characteristics I'vekind of drawn from other kids,
but she was inspired by one girlthat we cared for for two and a
half years who truly becamepart of our family, and it was
more that I wrote the book withher as the audience.
And what would she want Hope todo?
What would she want to happento her?
(12:20):
And she and I read so manybooks together and we would just
laugh and go oh, they'rewriting about foster care and
that's not really legit.
That wouldn't really happen infoster care.
So I kind of had her on myshoulder like telling me it has
to be real, you have to makewhat could actually happen be
happening.
So I think her name is Addieand she's been adopted since and
(12:46):
she's just now.
She's a teenager, she's almostready to go to college, but I
think she would love thecharacter of Hope, if you know,
if she meets her.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I thought for mereading it, I thought one of the
things that it did, I thoughtit was very realistic and I
thought that as a parent it gaveme some insight as to what kids
may be thinking at differentpoints in their journey or as
they're trying to fit in.
Even my kids that have been athome for a long time are a bit
(13:21):
more settled.
But as they enter middle schoolright, and are going to school
and trying to fit in and belongand all of those things, just to
kind of get into their mindseta little bit because I'm very
removed from middle school andso, you know, to be able to kind
of jump into their mind Ithought was great perspective
(13:44):
for me as a parent to rememberwhat that age is like, what the
hardships that they're goingthrough, and especially kids
that have endured trauma or, youknow, have that sort of
background or are maybe bouncingaround from home to home.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I think Hope the character is
she's kind of waiting for thenext shoe to drop, you know she
thinks, okay, this will neverlast.
This lady's not really thatnice, you know, and she's trying
to navigate that whole thing.
So I've heard from other peopletoo that, like, what she says
(14:22):
is not always what she'sthinking, which is, you know,
interesting juxtaposition of youknow, which might be like what
we all do sometimes, right, sure.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Sure, sure.
Well, I mean, and I think thatfor kids who have experienced
harm, getting into their realthoughts is a very vulnerable
thing, and so they want to beable to, and and so they want to
(14:54):
be able to speak, to controlwhat comes out in some sense, so
that it protects their realfeelings, their real
vulnerability a little bit.
Yeah, totally agree, but I Ithink that the way that you
wrote this really captured that,that part of it, and it helps
me remember that sometimes mykids, even being at home for a
long time, are still kind of inthat space and as they enter new
(15:15):
seasons, as they enter thisadolescent phase, I think the
way that they navigate theirprevious trauma changes because
their brain changes and the waythat they see people changes and
the way that they see theirpeers changes.
You know, like all of thatstuff changes as they get a
(15:36):
little bit older.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I mean I've heard some.
We haven't personally adopted.
We've, you know, just fostereda variety of ages but lots of
teens, and I do think that theyand I do think that they,
especially children who've beenadopted have to reprocess their
adoption at each age and stageand it's like we're never
through it.
We're just entering into thenew version of how they are
(16:15):
going to accept it and reallycoming to grips with their story
.
And for us as foster parents ofteens, and especially pregnant
teens, it can be really hardwhen they're 16 or 17 years old
and they know what they want fortheir lives and they don't want
anyone controlling them.
And we just moved immediately tothe role of coach and not so
much parent, asking a lot ofquestions, trying to guide them
that way, because, you know, theway you treat a 10-year-old is
(16:37):
very different, and then when weadd trauma on top of it, that
makes things really complex.
But it was interesting.
We had one pregnant teen who wehad quite a few difficult
conversations with and, you know, had to ask hard questions of
her, and then I wasn't quitesure how she felt about us when
(16:57):
she left, but we were able tohelp her reunify with her dad
and have her baby there.
And then a few months later shesaid could you write a
recommendation for me for a job?
And I was like okay, I think weended well.
Oh, that's awesome, but youdon't know you know you're just,
you're just doing the best youcan with them at that time and
just trying to help them, youknow, move in the right
(17:19):
direction.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, we have one that just turned 18 and is
navigating that young adultphase and it is a whole
different.
We have some moving into the awhole different.
We have some moving into themiddle school phase, we have
some moving to the young adultphase and it is a whole
different ballgame, like yousaid, at each different phase.
So I love that you capturedpart of that you know this kind
(17:42):
of adolescent phase in the book,because I do think that it
helps.
I mean, it's good for parentsto read and I know that's not
your target audience necessarily, but I thought it was a great
read and I think it would begood for parents to read with
their kids because I think theycan talk through some things.
I think there's some greatconversation starters in there.
(18:04):
But again, I also think that asa parent, it helped me see
things a little bit through thelens of my kids and where they
are.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, I feel like that's been the biggest surprise
to me, because I literallywrote the book for children.
I wanted it to be authentic andreally wanted it to be a book
that also children would thinkwas interesting.
Like that they would want tofollow the storyline.
And then, initially, if you'rewriting for the age of somewhere
(18:35):
between 9 and 13, pretty muchthe parents are the gatekeepers
of those stories.
They're not going to just letany story get into their
children's hands.
So the first people that read mybook the beta readers and my
launch team were all adults andI was getting this feedback,
just like you were saying like,oh my gosh, I learned so much
(18:55):
much about foster care and oh, Ididn't know that's the way kids
were thinking.
And it just so surprised me andI thought, wow, if I had tried
to like write a book to teachpeople about foster care, it
would have just fallen on itsface, right, because it would
have felt didactic.
Sure, but instead it's justthrough Hope's story and how her
(19:16):
brain you know we say she getstangled up in her brain or in
our trauma world.
We call it flipping your lidwhen you know you get stressed
out and you can't really thinkand how she's trying to learn to
not have a tangled brain allthe time.
And yeah, I just think it'sbeen a fun surprise and journey,
(19:38):
as I've watched adults read thebook first or say I'm going to
read it with my child and thencome back and go wow, I've
learned so much, so fun.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah.
Do you think that there are anyaudiences I mean in you talking
about that, like the reasonthat I read books first for my
kids is to make sure that I amokay with them reading something
right, or that something's notespecially for my kids, that
something's not going to betriggering to them?
Do you think there are anyaudiences that parents need to
(20:12):
potentially hold back on?
Or, you know, think through hey, would this be triggering for
my child in this season?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Well, so Hope's mom has died in the story.
When she was eight years old,or I guess she's seven.
Almost eight had died of cancer, so that could be a trigger,
although a friend of mine isreading it with her daughter and
her daughter's mom passed andshe said, you know, it was a
(20:39):
similar amount of time inbetween and she said I think
it'll be very cathartic for her.
But you know, that isdefinitely one of the things and
I think if children havebounced around homes and not had
good homes but I also feel like, depending on what kind of
place they're in, you know, ifthey're still suffering from
some PTSD or depression,probably not a good place to
(21:03):
read, but it can also be a goodthen they're able to share.
And one of my favorite storiesthat I've heard was one of our
(21:27):
advocates in one of our churchesshared it with her goddaughter
and her goddaughter was like 11years old and she read the story
.
And after she read it she wasjust at the beginning of the
story, maybe three chapters in,when she met the girl who
becomes like her best friend,sawyer.
She started crying and she said, oh, she's going to have to say
(21:49):
goodbye to Sawyer.
I know that's what's going tohappen and she had had a friend
who was in foster care in herclass, who was her best friend,
who got moved suddenly and herfamily knew that this had
happened but she had neverreally processed it or talked
about it.
But the book helped her processthat in her family and then she
(22:14):
went on to give a book reportin her class and tell all about
foster care and so for her itwas a really healing kind of
thing and her parents were sohappy she read the book because
she was able to really emotewhat had happened and share
about it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, I could see that happening pretty regularly.
I mean in that, you know, for alot of our kids it may be
something that allows them toprocess through some of those
feelings, but without having tobe so vulnerable about their own
stories, right, like thatthey're going along and
(22:52):
processing all of those feelingsthat are stored up inside of
them, that are kind of trappedin there sometimes, but without
having to come head on with thethings that they've experienced.
I could see how that would beincredibly healing for kids
especially.
I think you know, maybe thereare, there may be times, I think
(23:14):
, with my kids I think it willbe a book that we read together,
because I think that would itwill give them a chance to kind
of process.
I think they will love it, but Ithink it will give them a
chance to process through somethings and very connecting
activity, right To be able tosit down and experience all of
(23:35):
that stuff together, right to beable to sit down and experience
all of that stuff together.
So I mean, I think it it is agreat opportunity for families
to come together and really beable to heal in some ways.
But I do think that some theremay be some parents that want to
read through it first, thatwant to read through it with
(23:55):
their kids.
You know if, if your kids haveexperienced some of these things
in the past.
Well, what is your wish for thebook?
Like, I mean, I can see so manygood outcomes Do you know what
I'm saying?
Like I can see so many goodpotential outcomes from, from
the story and the hope that itcould provide the um healing
that it could help with, andeven just the knowledge about
(24:17):
foster care in general.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yep, I mean, obviously I want it to get in as
many kids' hands as possible,and not just children who are
experienced or have experiencedfoster care, but really their
classmates, so they can have alittle more empathy of what's
going on and understanding whychildren might want to hide
their foster status and thatkind of thing.
It's been read in a couple ofclassrooms, like fifth grade
(24:43):
classrooms, which I think when ateacher can read it to a class,
they can have that same type ofdiscussion about so many things
about foster care, about youknow.
You know fitting in versusbelonging, all the different
types of things like in what isreally lying.
You know if you're not tellingthe whole truth.
(25:04):
You know that there's so manynuances in there that Listen.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
we were having that conversation in my house just
this morning.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yes, exactly so really, that's my wish is that
it would get in as manychildren's hands as possible so
that there can be an increasedunderstanding.
But then it's kind of gonebeyond things like people are
putting them in the childwelfare offices for people to
read, giving them as gifts.
Some of our advocates aregifting them to their foster
(25:35):
parents to read for themselves,like you were saying, like it's
a good adult read, and some ofour advocates are also, you know
, been given them as gifts toalso give them a deeper
perspective, I think, on fostercare.
And of course it would be greatif it got in the Jenna Bush
book club.
That would be a dream of mine,but you know, one can always
(25:58):
dream, right?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Listen you never know , you never know, you never know
.
And if not this one, maybe thenext one.
Jonna, exactly, yeah.
So what message do you hopethat readers take from Hope's
story?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
from Hope's story.
Well, that life is not reallygoing to always be tied up with
a nice neat bow, and obviouslythere's I've already talked
about like the whole theme ofbelonging, but really just
learning to allow sort of yourstory to unfold.
(26:43):
And in Hope's story I can'treally give away the ending, but
it is not wrapped up with aperfect bow.
So people are asking me likewhat's the sequel?
I want more of her story andfor me that I want people to
understand that is foster care.
Like we don't always like.
I don't know the rest ofAddie's story, I just know that
she was adopted and seems happy.
But that is reality and sothat's okay and that's okay for
(27:08):
children to understand as well.
Like we're not always going tosee the end of the story, and I
like to say you know, god is theauthor and finisher of our
story and sometimes we're onlygetting to be part of a chapter
or a few chapters of somebody'slife and we might not get to see
the end.
So I am going to have somewhatof a sequel, which I've been
(27:32):
working on, but I'm a little bitstuck right now because these
stories are really hard to writewhen you're writing about.
Listen I can't imagine.
It gets me upset and then I'mlike, okay, I have to just put
it down for right now.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So I'm writing another story but the main
character is a boy, which is alittle bit harder to write about
, except I've written fictionalstories previously about boys
and then the child welfareworker, the case manager Ms G is
the link from the two stories,so she'll be his case manager.
(28:06):
So that's where the storieswill kind of feel similar.
But otherwise it's you know,and this boy has a problem that
he lies all the time.
So listen.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I am looking forward to this one.
I am looking forward to thisone.
We need to get this out soonerrather than later.
Jonna, whatever you need to beable to process and get the
writing done, I will be therefor you yeah, I think it's a
pretty common issue in fosterand adoption.
So yeah, yeah, well, and I meanwe've talked about it on the
(28:41):
podcast before.
You know, lying is a fearresponse and so a lot of times
our kids who live in thatconstant state of fear, that's
the only way that they know torespond about things and that
you know I work with somefamilies on, you know, parenting
(29:02):
and coaching and that kind ofstuff, and we talk a lot about
like, not focusing on the lyingbecause it's not going to do any
good.
My parent coach I had a parentcoach when we first got placed
with my kids and my parent coachsaid to me she goes, listen, if
you don't want them to lie,don't ask Exactly.
I'm like, wait a second, what,what?
(29:24):
Like I've never even thought ofthat, but but it is such a big
deal and it's, it is hard forparents to navigate.
I think it's hard for kids tonavigate because sometimes that
stuff just comes out of theirmouth.
Yeah, it just comes out.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
They don't even think about what they're saying,
almost like become an autoresponse.
You know they're eating thecookie and they're like did you
take the cookie from the cookiejar?
No, I did not.
Chomp, chomp, chomp.
So, like you, I had to learn.
Stop asking the questions andjust say hey, hey, honey, next
time can you please just ask meand I'll give you a cookie and
(30:00):
we let it go and then we're good, we haven't had a confrontation
.
But they're like Ooh, yeah, Igot caught, but okay, and then
we're way more likely to havethe right behavior the next time
because we haven't, you know,had them firing off all their
stress hormones, you know,trying to defend themselves.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Sure, absolutely.
But I do think that as a parent, sometimes that lying kind of
hits our nervous system right.
Where we go oh, we feel unsafe.
Right Like this is a no.
And so our nervous systemreacts and it just becomes this
big, big cycle.
Anyway, our nervous systemreacts and it just becomes this
(30:40):
big, big cycle.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Anyway, that book is needed.
Please get to work.
Yes, I will.
I will take that as myassignment.
I'm only on chapter six, Idon't know.
We're about a sixth of the waythrough, so there's hope.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I would imagine, though, that that is a very
grueling process, especiallywhen you're writing about topics
that are so heavy that goingthrough that writing process is
very hard and taxing on you.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yes, I think one of the hardest things for me is I
don't know if you're familiarwith the Enneagram, but I'm a
seven on the Enneagram andsevens don't really like to be
in their negative emotions.
So as a writer, it's kind ofdifficult because I have to let
bad things happen to mycharacters.
So I've had to go on thisjourney of like all right, is
(31:24):
this bad enough?
Is this bad enough for mycharacter?
Because I really I don't wantbad things to happen to my
characters.
But it's not interesting forpeople to read unless, like,
because bad things happen to us.
We, you know, we make poordecisions and my characters have
to do that, you know, to sortof come out and redeem
(31:46):
themselves at the end.
So that's been a really hardthing for me to, maybe harder
than for other people, butwriting those harder scenes is
really challenging.
So sometimes I cry when I writethem, and I'm not even a crier,
but it's just hard to get intothe skin of a kid and imagine
what they're really experiencing.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And in your well, not your first book, but in
Untangling Hope, I think thatreally comes out, that the true
emotion of the character, Ithink really comes through
really well, and so I'm gladthat you're going through that
process.
I know it's a burden on yousometimes, but I do think that
it matters, because I think thatthat is part of our kids, it's
part of their stories.
Those heavy emotions, the hardstuff is part of their stories.
And if we make light, if wemake too light of it, then it's
(32:48):
not helpful.
Jonna, tell us how people canfind you, how they can find
Promise 686 and how they can buyyour book.
Okay, so they can find Promise686, and how they can buy your
book.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Okay, so they can find me.
I have a newly launched websitewhich is my name, jonnasteincom
, and it's super cute.
I have a little mini boxer onthere because I just love dogs
and rescue dogs, so you canlearn a little bit more about me
.
There's also a teacher's guideon there for any teachers that
(33:18):
would like to use the book inthe classroom, and you can order
my book from there.
You can order it from Amazon,where books are sold I think
it's online in Barnes Noble aswell and then promise686.org is
our website, so you can go thereto learn all about what we do,
(33:39):
and if you want to get yourchurch involved or organization
involved, you can find all aboutthat there.
And, of course, you can followme on Facebook or Instagram just
my name, easy to find.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Awesome.
Well, we're so glad that you'rehere today.
I know people are going to lovethis book and I'm thankful that
you came on to share about itWell thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I really enjoyed talking to you.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I've put all of Jonna's contact information in
the show notes, including a linkto the book.
I'd love for you to let me knowwhat you think of it if you buy
it and read it.
Make sure that you subscribe tothe podcast so that you get
notified each and every time anew episode is posted, and if
you have an extra 30 secondstoday, would you leave a review?
(34:24):
I'd really appreciate it.
As we wrap up today, let mepray, lord.
Thank you so much for Jonna,lord, thank you for her heart
for vulnerable children andthank you for the work that
she's doing.
Lead each of us to use ourgiftings for your glory.
Lord, give us discernment onhow you want to use us.
(34:46):
Lord, raise our kids up to knowthat they belong to, not search
for belonging in the wrongplaces.
Lord, help them to know thatthey are yours, that they belong
to you, and, lord, as parents,let us walk in that belonging as
(35:06):
well.
We love you and we trust you InJesus' name, amen, thank you.
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:46):
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I hope your January is off to agreat start.
We got some snow last week andmy kids were living their best
(01:07):
life.
I live in Georgia, so we don'tget snow very often.
I think I mentioned it lastweek on the podcast that they
were super excited about it.
Y'all.
They were outside for hours,did not complain about the cold,
didn't complain about anything,and we didn't even have that
much snow, but they were havingthe time of their lives.
So I hope that your January isgoing well.
(01:29):
I know January can always besuper rough because a lot of
times our kids are cooped upinside instead of being able to
get out a little bit more, so itcan be rough on all of us, but
I hope that you are hanging inthere Well.
Today we are talking to JonnaStein.
Jonna is the author of a newbook called Untangling Hope.
(01:51):
She serves as the VP ofCreative Resources at Promise
686.
She also is a TBRI practitioner, an award-winning children's
writer and a debut author ofthis new novel, untangling Hope.
That's for kids ages 9 through13.
Once her two kids went off tocollege, she and her Dutch
(02:13):
husband became foster parentsand have cared for more than 30
bonus children.
They try to keep their home andhearts open to the next child
or young adult who needs a softplace to land.
She loves developing resourcesto equip churches to serve and
to find their fit in the childwelfare continuum.
I think you are going to lovethis conversation that I have
(02:35):
with Jonna.
We're going to dive into herbook, which is about a foster
child, and we are going to talkabout some of the challenge that
her character faces, on top ofhow that relates to our kids
that are in our homes and whatwe do about it.
So let's get to it.
Well, hey, jada, welcome to thepodcast.
I am so excited to have you onhere today.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, thank you so much, Nicole.
I'm excited to be here.
I've been listening to yourpodcast and I just love what
you've been sharing.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Thank you.
Well, tell me a little bitabout yourself and what you do.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Okay.
So I think very important is I'mmarried to a really great
husband who is actually fromHolland, so we have lived on
both sides of the pond, as wesay, but our recent stint in the
US has been for 17 years, sowe've been here for a while, and
I think it was about in 2012,.
(03:33):
Our hearts were being stirredsort of to do foster care or
think about foster care in ourchurch.
At the same time, I was sort ofthinking about I really wanted
to work at a nonprofit andapplied to a bunch of nonprofits
but didn't get accepted for aninterview anywhere.
And then, out of the blue, gota call from a friend who said
(03:54):
hey, I'm going to be working atPromise 686, this adoption and
foster care nonprofit, and theyneed another person.
Do you want to work with me?
And so that's how I got invitedto work at Promise long ago in
2012.
And at the same time wasbecoming a foster family.
So we started our impacttraining the same month that I
(04:15):
started my job.
So I was kind of learning as Iwent, so it was like a fire hose
.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
You're getting it from all sides.
You're getting the parent sideof the training.
You're getting the parent sideof the training.
You're getting the professionalside of the training.
You're just jumping right in.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah, so that was how I got started in what I'm doing
.
So I've been there, for I'vebeen at Promise for 12 years and
my job has grown a little bitsince then.
And now I get to help write ourcurriculum and trainings for
the churches who set up fosterand adoption ministries, which
we call family advocacyministries, and so I like to
(04:51):
pinch myself sometimes because Ithink gosh, part of my job is I
get to write for a living, soit's really fun.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That's amazing.
So now my church is a PromiseChurch.
But for those people that don'tknow what Promise 686 is, why
don't you tell everybody whatyou guys do?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Right.
So our name is based on a verse, psalm 68, 6, which is God sets
the lonely in families, and wereally just love to mobilize the
local church to servevulnerable families and children
.
So that means you know,anywhere on the continuum before
(05:29):
foster care, which we you knowrefer to as prevention, or once
children are in foster care, orthen after foster care, where
they're either reuniting withtheir families or connecting
with a forever family.
So our job is really just toempower and equip and mobilize
the local church to do that work.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
That's beautiful.
I love that mission.
It's such a beautiful gift tosee the church kind of rise up
in this world, in this ministryin our communities, to be able
to serve children and familiesin that way, so I love the
support that you guys provide.
Well, you also just finishedanother book, so tell me a
(06:11):
little bit about you writing andwhat that looks like.
I know you talked about forPromise that you write
curriculum, but what does itlook like to write in a
different style?
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Well, so I've always wanted to write and I've written
poetry just kind of for fun andI used to write children's
church curriculum and that wasreally creative.
It wasn't a book, but it was.
You know, you're writing skitsand things like that.
And then when we moved to theUnited States, I decided, okay,
(06:42):
I'm really going to do thiswriting thing.
United States, I decided, okay,I'm really going to do this
writing thing.
And so I started writinganother middle grade.
That was my first novel and itwas pretty terrible.
But the person who reviewed itsaid that I had good voice and I
was like, okay, that's hard tobuy or fix, but I can fix a plot
(07:03):
, I could do that.
So I just kept working at itand in the meantime I just
started writing stories formagazines because I understood
that there was a big audience.
If a magazine got in the handsof a family, usually five to 10
people would read it, so unlikea book where just one person
reads it.
So I got really motivated and Iwrote for a variety of
(07:25):
magazines and then just stillhad this urge to write a novel.
But it's hard to write a novel.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
And it takes a lot of time when you're doing all of
this other stuff too.
I mean, this is on top of yourregular job and you know you've
been fostering through this timeand all of this stuff, like
that's a lot.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, it probably took.
By the time it got topublication from when I wrote
the first words is about fiveyears, you know, and there were
probably like 25 iterations ofthe book at least.
So it does.
It just takes a while to likerewrite and trying to figure out
like what is the meat of thestory and what are the good
things.
That kind of come out whenyou're initially writing that
(08:11):
naturally, and then you go like,oh, that's a really good idea.
Okay, I'm going to focus onthat one a little more.
So, yeah, it was a long process, but it was.
I loved writing this book.
This is my fourth one that I'vewritten.
I'm the only one worthy of likea public viewing, but, um, but
(08:32):
I loved writing this book.
I never got tired of thecharacters and I just really
enjoyed trying to make it, youknow, the best it could be.
So, uh, it just took a while.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Well, listen, I mean that is what it takes, though.
With anything I mean you thinkabout anything that you do you
have to learn, you have topractice, you have to go through
those seasons, right, like Imean that's true with anything.
You don't just jump in andautomatically know how to do
everything perfectly.
So I mean that's a big deal tobe able to like really pour out
(09:08):
in something that you love andbeing creative or whatever, and
then get to a point where youcan be published.
That's a really I mean that's areally big, big deal.
So tell me about the book andwho is your kind of intended
audience?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
So the book is called Untangling Hope and it's about
an 11-year-old girl who's aboutto turn 12.
She's been in foster care forthree years and she's bounced
around a variety of homesbecause she's had some behaviors
that happen when childrenexperience trauma and when the
caregivers don't reallyunderstand that that's a trauma
(09:43):
reaction, they react differently.
She was also in our story.
It's fictional, but not in allthe best homes.
So we read a little bit aboutthat.
And then she lands in herseventh foster home with a young
widow who's previously onlytaken little kids who don't talk
.
But the case manager felt thatthis would be a really good
(10:08):
match, and she was right.
And so it's about this girl,hope, really learning to belong
learning to belong in a family,at school, with friends.
In the beginning of the bookshe's really trying to fit in,
(10:29):
but fitting in is very differentthan actually belonging, and so
she just has to go on thatjourney.
And she's very tired of being infoster care and everyone making
decisions for her.
So she devises a secret plan toget out of foster care, which
is really hard to do when you'reonly 11 years old and she needs
a phone to do it.
So then she's also trying tofigure out how to get her hands
(10:49):
on a phone, and so you knowthere's a lot of suspense as far
as that goes of her.
Is she going to get caughtdoing these things?
And in the end, her secret planis that she has a cousin who is
on a reality show out in LosAngeles and this story is taking
place in Georgia and she mether when she was real little and
(11:11):
she's just wondering if hercousin is going to remember her
and she's trying to get a holdof her.
And you know I'm not going totell the end because that will
be a spoiler.
Yes, I want people to go getthe book and read it for
themselves, but it adds a littlespice to the story, which makes
it really fun.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
That's awesome.
Now I know you said the storyis fictional, but the main
character, hope.
Is she completely fictional oris she based on a real person?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Well, that is a great question.
We have had more than 30, whatI like to call bonus children,
who've been in our home from theage of eight till 18.
We've also had pregnant teens.
So we've kind of run the gamutin our family.
And Hope is really not based onany one kid that was in our
home.
(11:58):
Some of her characteristics I'vekind of drawn from other kids,
but she was inspired by one girlthat we cared for for two and a
half years who truly becamepart of our family, and it was
more that I wrote the book withher as the audience.
And what would she want Hope todo?
What would she want to happento her?
(12:20):
And she and I read so manybooks together and we would just
laugh and go oh, they'rewriting about foster care and
that's not really legit.
That wouldn't really happen infoster care.
So I kind of had her on myshoulder like telling me it has
to be real, you have to makewhat could actually happen be
happening.
So I think her name is Addieand she's been adopted since and
(12:46):
she's just now.
She's a teenager, she's almostready to go to college, but I
think she would love thecharacter of Hope, if you know,
if she meets her.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, I thought for mereading it, I thought one of the
things that it did, I thoughtit was very realistic and I
thought that as a parent it gaveme some insight as to what kids
may be thinking at differentpoints in their journey or as
they're trying to fit in.
Even my kids that have been athome for a long time are a bit
(13:21):
more settled.
But as they enter middle schoolright, and are going to school
and trying to fit in and belongand all of those things, just to
kind of get into their mindseta little bit because I'm very
removed from middle school andso, you know, to be able to kind
of jump into their mind Ithought was great perspective
(13:44):
for me as a parent to rememberwhat that age is like, what the
hardships that they're goingthrough, and especially kids
that have endured trauma or, youknow, have that sort of
background or are maybe bouncingaround from home to home.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Yeah, yeah, and I think Hope the character is
she's kind of waiting for thenext shoe to drop, you know she
thinks, okay, this will neverlast.
This lady's not really thatnice, you know, and she's trying
to navigate that whole thing.
So I've heard from other peopletoo that, like, what she says
(14:22):
is not always what she'sthinking, which is, you know,
interesting juxtaposition of youknow, which might be like what
we all do sometimes, right, sure.
Speaker 1 (14:32):
Sure, sure.
Well, I mean, and I think thatfor kids who have experienced
harm, getting into their realthoughts is a very vulnerable
thing, and so they want to beable to, and and so they want to
(14:54):
be able to speak, to controlwhat comes out in some sense, so
that it protects their realfeelings, their real
vulnerability a little bit.
Yeah, totally agree, but I Ithink that the way that you
wrote this really captured that,that part of it, and it helps
me remember that sometimes mykids, even being at home for a
long time, are still kind of inthat space and as they enter new
(15:15):
seasons, as they enter thisadolescent phase, I think the
way that they navigate theirprevious trauma changes because
their brain changes and the waythat they see people changes and
the way that they see theirpeers changes.
You know, like all of thatstuff changes as they get a
(15:36):
little bit older.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
Yeah, I mean I've heard some.
We haven't personally adopted.
We've, you know, just fostereda variety of ages but lots of
teens, and I do think that theyand I do think that they,
especially children who've beenadopted have to reprocess their
adoption at each age and stageand it's like we're never
through it.
We're just entering into thenew version of how they are
(16:15):
going to accept it and reallycoming to grips with their story
.
And for us as foster parents ofteens, and especially pregnant
teens, it can be really hardwhen they're 16 or 17 years old
and they know what they want fortheir lives and they don't want
anyone controlling them.
And we just moved immediately tothe role of coach and not so
much parent, asking a lot ofquestions, trying to guide them
that way, because, you know, theway you treat a 10-year-old is
(16:37):
very different, and then when weadd trauma on top of it, that
makes things really complex.
But it was interesting.
We had one pregnant teen who wehad quite a few difficult
conversations with and, you know, had to ask hard questions of
her, and then I wasn't quitesure how she felt about us when
(16:57):
she left, but we were able tohelp her reunify with her dad
and have her baby there.
And then a few months later shesaid could you write a
recommendation for me for a job?
And I was like okay, I think weended well.
Oh, that's awesome, but youdon't know you know you're just,
you're just doing the best youcan with them at that time and
just trying to help them, youknow, move in the right
(17:19):
direction.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, we have one that just turned 18 and is
navigating that young adultphase and it is a whole
different.
We have some moving into the awhole different.
We have some moving into themiddle school phase, we have
some moving to the young adultphase and it is a whole
different ballgame, like yousaid, at each different phase.
So I love that you capturedpart of that you know this kind
(17:42):
of adolescent phase in the book,because I do think that it
helps.
I mean, it's good for parentsto read and I know that's not
your target audience necessarily, but I thought it was a great
read and I think it would begood for parents to read with
their kids because I think theycan talk through some things.
I think there's some greatconversation starters in there.
(18:04):
But again, I also think that asa parent, it helped me see
things a little bit through thelens of my kids and where they
are.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Yeah, I feel like that's been the biggest surprise
to me, because I literallywrote the book for children.
I wanted it to be authentic andreally wanted it to be a book
that also children would thinkwas interesting.
Like that they would want tofollow the storyline.
And then, initially, if you'rewriting for the age of somewhere
(18:35):
between 9 and 13, pretty muchthe parents are the gatekeepers
of those stories.
They're not going to just letany story get into their
children's hands.
So the first people that read mybook the beta readers and my
launch team were all adults andI was getting this feedback,
just like you were saying like,oh my gosh, I learned so much
(18:55):
much about foster care and oh, Ididn't know that's the way kids
were thinking.
And it just so surprised me andI thought, wow, if I had tried
to like write a book to teachpeople about foster care, it
would have just fallen on itsface, right, because it would
have felt didactic.
Sure, but instead it's justthrough Hope's story and how her
(19:16):
brain you know we say she getstangled up in her brain or in
our trauma world.
We call it flipping your lidwhen you know you get stressed
out and you can't really thinkand how she's trying to learn to
not have a tangled brain allthe time.
And yeah, I just think it'sbeen a fun surprise and journey,
(19:38):
as I've watched adults read thebook first or say I'm going to
read it with my child and thencome back and go wow, I've
learned so much, so fun.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Yeah.
Do you think that there are anyaudiences I mean in you talking
about that, like the reasonthat I read books first for my
kids is to make sure that I amokay with them reading something
right, or that something's notespecially for my kids, that
something's not going to betriggering to them?
Do you think there are anyaudiences that parents need to
(20:12):
potentially hold back on?
Or, you know, think through hey, would this be triggering for
my child in this season?
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Well, so Hope's mom has died in the story.
When she was eight years old,or I guess she's seven.
Almost eight had died of cancer, so that could be a trigger,
although a friend of mine isreading it with her daughter and
her daughter's mom passed andshe said, you know, it was a
(20:39):
similar amount of time inbetween and she said I think
it'll be very cathartic for her.
But you know, that isdefinitely one of the things and
I think if children havebounced around homes and not had
good homes but I also feel like, depending on what kind of
place they're in, you know, ifthey're still suffering from
some PTSD or depression,probably not a good place to
(21:03):
read, but it can also be a goodthen they're able to share.
And one of my favorite storiesthat I've heard was one of our
(21:27):
advocates in one of our churchesshared it with her goddaughter
and her goddaughter was like 11years old and she read the story
.
And after she read it she wasjust at the beginning of the
story, maybe three chapters in,when she met the girl who
becomes like her best friend,sawyer.
She started crying and she said, oh, she's going to have to say
(21:49):
goodbye to Sawyer.
I know that's what's going tohappen and she had had a friend
who was in foster care in herclass, who was her best friend,
who got moved suddenly and herfamily knew that this had
happened but she had neverreally processed it or talked
about it.
But the book helped her processthat in her family and then she
(22:14):
went on to give a book reportin her class and tell all about
foster care and so for her itwas a really healing kind of
thing and her parents were sohappy she read the book because
she was able to really emotewhat had happened and share
about it.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yeah, I could see that happening pretty regularly.
I mean in that, you know, for alot of our kids it may be
something that allows them toprocess through some of those
feelings, but without having tobe so vulnerable about their own
stories, right, like thatthey're going along and
(22:52):
processing all of those feelingsthat are stored up inside of
them, that are kind of trappedin there sometimes, but without
having to come head on with thethings that they've experienced.
I could see how that would beincredibly healing for kids
especially.
I think you know, maybe thereare, there may be times, I think
(23:14):
, with my kids I think it willbe a book that we read together,
because I think that would itwill give them a chance to kind
of process.
I think they will love it, but Ithink it will give them a
chance to process through somethings and very connecting
activity, right To be able tosit down and experience all of
(23:35):
that stuff together, right to beable to sit down and experience
all of that stuff together.
So I mean, I think it it is agreat opportunity for families
to come together and really beable to heal in some ways.
But I do think that some theremay be some parents that want to
read through it first, thatwant to read through it with
(23:55):
their kids.
You know if, if your kids haveexperienced some of these things
in the past.
Well, what is your wish for thebook?
Like, I mean, I can see so manygood outcomes Do you know what
I'm saying?
Like I can see so many goodpotential outcomes from, from
the story and the hope that itcould provide the um healing
that it could help with, andeven just the knowledge about
(24:17):
foster care in general.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
Yep, I mean, obviously I want it to get in as
many kids' hands as possible,and not just children who are
experienced or have experiencedfoster care, but really their
classmates, so they can have alittle more empathy of what's
going on and understanding whychildren might want to hide
their foster status and thatkind of thing.
It's been read in a couple ofclassrooms, like fifth grade
(24:43):
classrooms, which I think when ateacher can read it to a class,
they can have that same type ofdiscussion about so many things
about foster care, about youknow.
You know fitting in versusbelonging, all the different
types of things like in what isreally lying.
You know if you're not tellingthe whole truth.
(25:04):
You know that there's so manynuances in there that Listen.
Speaker 1 (25:09):
we were having that conversation in my house just
this morning.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Yes, exactly so really, that's my wish is that
it would get in as manychildren's hands as possible so
that there can be an increasedunderstanding.
But then it's kind of gonebeyond things like people are
putting them in the childwelfare offices for people to
read, giving them as gifts.
Some of our advocates aregifting them to their foster
(25:35):
parents to read for themselves,like you were saying, like it's
a good adult read, and some ofour advocates are also, you know
, been given them as gifts toalso give them a deeper
perspective, I think, on fostercare.
And of course it would be greatif it got in the Jenna Bush
book club.
That would be a dream of mine,but you know, one can always
(25:58):
dream, right?
Speaker 1 (25:59):
Listen you never know , you never know, you never know
.
And if not this one, maybe thenext one.
Jonna, exactly, yeah.
So what message do you hopethat readers take from Hope's
story?
Speaker 2 (26:22):
from Hope's story.
Well, that life is not reallygoing to always be tied up with
a nice neat bow, and obviouslythere's I've already talked
about like the whole theme ofbelonging, but really just
learning to allow sort of yourstory to unfold.
(26:43):
And in Hope's story I can'treally give away the ending, but
it is not wrapped up with aperfect bow.
So people are asking me likewhat's the sequel?
I want more of her story andfor me that I want people to
understand that is foster care.
Like we don't always like.
I don't know the rest ofAddie's story, I just know that
she was adopted and seems happy.
But that is reality and sothat's okay and that's okay for
(27:08):
children to understand as well.
Like we're not always going tosee the end of the story, and I
like to say you know, god is theauthor and finisher of our
story and sometimes we're onlygetting to be part of a chapter
or a few chapters of somebody'slife and we might not get to see
the end.
So I am going to have somewhatof a sequel, which I've been
(27:32):
working on, but I'm a little bitstuck right now because these
stories are really hard to writewhen you're writing about.
Listen I can't imagine.
It gets me upset and then I'mlike, okay, I have to just put
it down for right now.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
So I'm writing another story but the main
character is a boy, which is alittle bit harder to write about
, except I've written fictionalstories previously about boys
and then the child welfareworker, the case manager Ms G is
the link from the two stories,so she'll be his case manager.
(28:06):
So that's where the storieswill kind of feel similar.
But otherwise it's you know,and this boy has a problem that
he lies all the time.
So listen.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
I am looking forward to this one.
I am looking forward to thisone.
We need to get this out soonerrather than later.
Jonna, whatever you need to beable to process and get the
writing done, I will be therefor you yeah, I think it's a
pretty common issue in fosterand adoption.
So yeah, yeah, well, and I meanwe've talked about it on the
(28:41):
podcast before.
You know, lying is a fearresponse and so a lot of times
our kids who live in thatconstant state of fear, that's
the only way that they know torespond about things and that
you know I work with somefamilies on, you know, parenting
(29:02):
and coaching and that kind ofstuff, and we talk a lot about
like, not focusing on the lyingbecause it's not going to do any
good.
My parent coach I had a parentcoach when we first got placed
with my kids and my parent coachsaid to me she goes, listen, if
you don't want them to lie,don't ask Exactly.
I'm like, wait a second, what,what?
(29:24):
Like I've never even thought ofthat, but but it is such a big
deal and it's, it is hard forparents to navigate.
I think it's hard for kids tonavigate because sometimes that
stuff just comes out of theirmouth.
Yeah, it just comes out.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
They don't even think about what they're saying,
almost like become an autoresponse.
You know they're eating thecookie and they're like did you
take the cookie from the cookiejar?
No, I did not.
Chomp, chomp, chomp.
So, like you, I had to learn.
Stop asking the questions andjust say hey, hey, honey, next
time can you please just ask meand I'll give you a cookie and
(30:00):
we let it go and then we're good, we haven't had a confrontation
.
But they're like Ooh, yeah, Igot caught, but okay, and then
we're way more likely to havethe right behavior the next time
because we haven't, you know,had them firing off all their
stress hormones, you know,trying to defend themselves.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
Sure, absolutely.
But I do think that as a parent, sometimes that lying kind of
hits our nervous system right.
Where we go oh, we feel unsafe.
Right Like this is a no.
And so our nervous systemreacts and it just becomes this
big, big cycle.
Anyway, our nervous systemreacts and it just becomes this
(30:40):
big, big cycle.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
Anyway, that book is needed.
Please get to work.
Yes, I will.
I will take that as myassignment.
I'm only on chapter six, Idon't know.
We're about a sixth of the waythrough, so there's hope.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
I would imagine, though, that that is a very
grueling process, especiallywhen you're writing about topics
that are so heavy that goingthrough that writing process is
very hard and taxing on you.
Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yes, I think one of the hardest things for me is I
don't know if you're familiarwith the Enneagram, but I'm a
seven on the Enneagram andsevens don't really like to be
in their negative emotions.
So as a writer, it's kind ofdifficult because I have to let
bad things happen to mycharacters.
So I've had to go on thisjourney of like all right, is
(31:24):
this bad enough?
Is this bad enough for mycharacter?
Because I really I don't wantbad things to happen to my
characters.
But it's not interesting forpeople to read unless, like,
because bad things happen to us.
We, you know, we make poordecisions and my characters have
to do that, you know, to sortof come out and redeem
(31:46):
themselves at the end.
So that's been a really hardthing for me to, maybe harder
than for other people, butwriting those harder scenes is
really challenging.
So sometimes I cry when I writethem, and I'm not even a crier,
but it's just hard to get intothe skin of a kid and imagine
what they're really experiencing.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
And in your well, not your first book, but in
Untangling Hope, I think thatreally comes out, that the true
emotion of the character, Ithink really comes through
really well, and so I'm gladthat you're going through that
process.
I know it's a burden on yousometimes, but I do think that
it matters, because I think thatthat is part of our kids, it's
part of their stories.
Those heavy emotions, the hardstuff is part of their stories.
And if we make light, if wemake too light of it, then it's
(32:48):
not helpful.
Jonna, tell us how people canfind you, how they can find
Promise 686 and how they can buyyour book.
Okay, so they can find Promise686, and how they can buy your
book.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
Okay, so they can find me.
I have a newly launched websitewhich is my name, jonnasteincom
, and it's super cute.
I have a little mini boxer onthere because I just love dogs
and rescue dogs, so you canlearn a little bit more about me
.
There's also a teacher's guideon there for any teachers that
(33:18):
would like to use the book inthe classroom, and you can order
my book from there.
You can order it from Amazon,where books are sold I think
it's online in Barnes Noble aswell and then promise686.org is
our website, so you can go thereto learn all about what we do,
(33:39):
and if you want to get yourchurch involved or organization
involved, you can find all aboutthat there.
And, of course, you can followme on Facebook or Instagram just
my name, easy to find.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Awesome.
Well, we're so glad that you'rehere today.
I know people are going to lovethis book and I'm thankful that
you came on to share about itWell thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
I really enjoyed talking to you.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
I've put all of Jonna's contact information in
the show notes, including a linkto the book.
I'd love for you to let me knowwhat you think of it if you buy
it and read it.
Make sure that you subscribe tothe podcast so that you get
notified each and every time anew episode is posted, and if
you have an extra 30 secondstoday, would you leave a review?
(34:24):
I'd really appreciate it.
As we wrap up today, let mepray, lord.
Thank you so much for Jonna,lord, thank you for her heart
for vulnerable children andthank you for the work that
she's doing.
Lead each of us to use ourgiftings for your glory.
Lord, give us discernment onhow you want to use us.
(34:46):
Lord, raise our kids up to knowthat they belong to, not search
for belonging in the wrongplaces.
Lord, help them to know thatthey are yours, that they belong
to you, and, lord, as parents,let us walk in that belonging as
(35:06):
well.
We love you and we trust you InJesus' name, amen, thank you.
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