August 13, 2025 • 38 mins
Dr. John DeGarmo, founder of the Foster Care Institute and foster parent to over 60 children, takes us on a powerful journey into the heart of foster care ministry. Having witnessed firsthand the transformative impact of faith communities on vulnerable children, Dr. John makes a compelling case for why foster care represents "the next great mission field" for today's churches.
The statistics are sobering – millions of children experience domestic violence daily, and the foster care system is overwhelmed nationwide. But rather than seeing only crisis, Dr. John reveals the extraordinary opportunity standing before faith communities. "There's usually a child in crisis within a mile of every church," he explains, challenging listeners to recognize the mission field that exists in their own neighborhoods.
Drawing from decades of experience and his doctorate in foster care, Dr. John offers practical strategies for church involvement that extend far beyond direct fostering. From establishing support groups and clothes closets to creating welcoming visitation spaces for biological families, he demonstrates how congregations can become powerful agents of healing. Particularly moving are his stories of churches that wrapped around reunified families, preventing children from returning to care by providing practical support during crises.
What shines through most clearly is Dr. John's unwavering faith amid heartbreak. Having experienced four failed adoptions and cared for children with profound trauma, he speaks candidly about relying on God through exhaustion and discouragement. "I couldn't do it without my faith," he shares, echoing the experience of 85% of foster parents nationwide who draw strength from their spiritual foundations.
Dr. John DeGarmo Website: https://www.drjohndegarmofostercare.com/
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Nicole T Barlow email: nicoletbarlowcoaching@gmail.com
I'd love to hear from you! Send me a text!
Connect with me on Instagram: @Fosterparentwell
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:32):
joy.
I want you host, Nicole TBarlow.
(01:00):
Depending on where you live,this may or may not be true for
you, but for us, depending onwhere you live, this may or may
not be true for you, but for us,school is back in session and
we are back to routine.
Well, for my family, we'reactually starting a whole new
routine.
My youngest three kids havealways been homeschooled, but
this year they are all attendinga physical school of some sort.
(01:20):
So now we're getting up earlyand navigating car line y'all.
And just a side note, whoevermade up the thing where you need
to get in afternoon car line anhour and a half early just so
you aren't at the very end ofthe line?
I'm not sure I'm loving thatpart, but we are all adjusting
and we are all excited aboutthis next year and all that it
(01:42):
can bring.
I think it's going to be reallygood some really good changes
for my family.
I'm also really excited aboutthis next year on the podcast.
This season we have some reallyamazing guests scheduled and
we're going to navigate togetherthe many dynamics that we face
in foster care, adoption andfaith.
(02:03):
Today we are kicking things offwith Dr John DeGarmo.
Dr John is an expert inparenting and foster care and is
a TEDx Talk presenter.
Dr John is the founder anddirector of the Foster Care
Institute.
He and his wife have had over60 children come through their
home as foster parents.
(02:23):
He is the author of severalfoster care books and has
appeared on CNN, hln, goodMorning America, nbc, fox, cbs
and PB stations across thenation.
We're going to be discussing theimportance and the role of the
church in foster care today.
I truly believe that the crisisthat we see in foster care is
(02:44):
just waiting for the church toreally respond.
The Lord has prepared us tomeet this need.
So how do we do that?
How do we share and encourageothers in the church to step in?
How do we share a realisticpicture of what being a foster
parent looks like butsimultaneously share God's
faithfulness in the midst of itall we're going to talk about it
(03:07):
today.
Let's get started.
Hi, john, welcome to thepodcast.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, introduce yourself and
tell us how you got involved inthe foster care world.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Sure, I'm Dr John or Dr John DeGarmo.
I'm founder and director of theFoster Care Institute.
I work with child welfareagencies, foster care programs,
legislators across the countryand globe trying to reform the
foster care system and help withretention and recruitment and
just make the system better foreverybody.
Overall, I've been a fosterparent myself to over 60-plus
children who have come throughour home and been a part of our
(03:40):
family and, of course, haveadopted three, and my wife and I
became foster parents after thedeath of our first child in
Australia, where my wife is from, and then moving back to the US
.
We wanted to help more children.
I was actually teaching in arural school system in middle
Georgia at that time this islate, late 1990s we moved back
(04:02):
to the US and I had some kids inmy classroom.
A lot of kids in my classroomwere victims of neglect and
abuse and abandonment in thisvery, very small rural town with
lots of rural apathy and ruralpoverty.
And I also had a lot of victimsof human trafficking in my
classroom too, because at thattime in this rural community in
(04:22):
the late 90s there was thelargest child sex trafficking
ring in America happening undereverybody's noses Wow, and
actually, the person waseventually arrested for bringing
over 1,000-plus children overstate lines for trafficking in
this small town maybe 3,000,4,000 people, and so a lot of
those kids, a lot of thosesurvivors, were in my classroom.
(04:45):
So I went to my wife and said,hey, we lost our first child.
We have three healthy childrennow and we both have led a life
of serving others in some way.
That's how we met traveling theworld, singing and dancing in a
performing group that also dida lot of outreach, and so these
kids are in my classroom.
How can we help others?
So that led to us becomingfoster parents.
(05:07):
That led to me getting mydoctorate in foster care and
writing umpteen books, and nowI'm blessed to travel the globe
helping others.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Well, tell me how faith plays a part in your
journey.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh, for me, I couldn't do it.
I couldn't do it without it.
I mean, you know, I write in mybook Faith and Foster Care.
I couldn't do it without myfaith.
You know, 85% of foster parentsstate that they rely on their
faith to help them throughfoster parenting.
You know, foster parenting,even though it's the most
(05:43):
rewarding thing I've done, themost life-changing thing I've
done, it's also been the hardestthing I've done.
You know, there have been sometimes where we did not agree
with the reunification.
There have been times wherewe've also experienced four
failed adoptions, which are allheart-wrenching.
There have been times wherewe've had kids and we've had as
many as 11 kids in our house atthe same time, including seven
(06:03):
in diapers, and both my wife andI work full-time jobs.
She's a doctor of naturopathicmedicines and we don't have no
help, so that can be exhaustingon so many levels.
So there are days where I say,god, I cannot do this today.
I'm burned out, I'm worn down,I'm exhausted, my heart is
broken.
I'm struggling with this childwho has anger issues.
(06:25):
I've got seven in diapers.
I got to get taken care ofbefore school starts for the
kids.
I'm worn down.
So you know, I look to my faithto help me through, and my wife
too.
You know we both are verystrong people in our faith, so
we rely upon that, and you know.
And then we look at our church.
As I wrote in the book theChurch and Foster Care, I
(06:46):
believe that the next greatmission for today's faith-based
organizations whatever faiththat is is the foster care
program here in America.
We don't have to go to Mexicoor Honduras or Nicaragua I've
done all that to find a missionfield.
There is a mission field inevery community.
There's usually a child incrisis within a mile of every
church.
In some way You've got 5million kids who experience
(07:07):
domestic violence in their houseevery single day.
So there's an opportunity forthe church to really create a
strong foster care outreachprogram, strong foster care
ministry, if you will, to helpthe foster parents, help the
kids, help the birth parents,who are also children of God.
So yeah again, my faith isprominent in my foster parenting
(07:31):
experience and I know it is forthe majority of foster parents.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, I really don't know how you do it.
So I train for a localChristian foster care agency.
So the way that we train fosterparents is we take the state
training but we incorporatefaith aspects and the gospel and
all of that into the trainingand help parents I mean it's
training missionaries, right,and so we help parents kind of
(07:56):
learn how to navigate the systemfrom a faith perspective.
I don't see how you do itotherwise, like I don't know how
you teach people to do this andjust suck it up.
Whereas my wife says suck it upbuttercup a driving factor into
(08:27):
why we got into this.
It's a driving factor for whywe keep going.
I think it becomes harder ifyou don't have that.
So how do we help the churchrecognize this need and really
step up to answer this call tomake this the next great mission
?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You know, in that book, the Church and Foster Care
, there are several strategies.
Every chapter is filled withdifferent strategies a church
can use to create a foster careministry, as I mentioned, in
their own church.
You know, not everybody can bea foster parent, not everybody
should be a foster parent, buteverybody can help in some way
(09:02):
and there are many ways.
Faith-based organizations cando that by coming alongside a
foster parent support groupassociation and hosting it, by
having clothes closets or foodministry, by coming alongside
foster parents during theholidays and providing gifts for
birthdays and Christmases, tohaving a clothes closet, hygiene
items, school supplies.
(09:23):
Those are just a few of thementors Yep having a clothes,
closet, hygiene items, schoolsupplies.
Those are just a few of thementors, just a few of the many,
many ways that faith-basedorganizations and just people in
general can help children infoster care.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, I think all of that is really important.
When we got into this, ourchurch, when we first stepped
into foster care, our church wasalready starting that path to
create a foster care ministry.
And then About halfway throughour journey, we changed churches
and I went to the pastor andI'm like, hey, I would like to
(09:54):
start a foster care ministry andhe said, no, we will never do
anything like that here.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Right and I'm like okay.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
And so I mean I just let it go and I just prayed like
Lord, make sure that we havesupport, surround us with people
who naturally support us in ournatural community, and all of
those things.
And we did, we had that naturalsupport.
But, very interesting, as weprayed through that, there
became so many foster familiesthat stepped up in this church
(10:28):
just organically, that a yearlater that same pastor came to
me and said, okay, we've got todo something.
We have too many foster parentsin this church and we're not
supporting them.
We need a ministry to supportthem.
And it grew into a thrivingfoster care ministry that was
(10:49):
recognized by child welfareagencies and the Children's
Bureau and all of thosedifferent things.
But it was just organically.
God grew this thing even whenthe pastor was saying that he
didn't want to.
So you know, I think prayer isanother way that we can step
into that and it doesn't.
(11:10):
That doesn't necessarily, Imean provide the structure that
you were talking about, but ithelps, I think, kind of initiate
that process.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Oh, prayer, to be sure, and my book, faith and
Foster Care, talks about how wecan pray for the foster parents,
the birth parents, who are alsochildren.
I mean, these birth parents mayhave committed heinous crimes
towards the children.
At the same time they're stillchildren of God.
God loves them just as much ashe loves you and I.
Our sins are no smaller thantheirs.
Their sins are no bigger thanours in God's eyes, and many
(11:39):
times birth parents arestruggling with their own issues
of trauma, issues of anxiety,where they never got the
professional help that theyneeded.
You know, one of the things I dois I travel the nation working
with faith-based foster careprograms like yours and churches
.
I speak at a lot of churches tohelp them set up their foster
care ministry, because many say,hey, we don't know where to
(12:00):
start.
We don't know where to start,or maybe they're not, they don't
have the awareness.
I'm a firm believer thatawareness equals advocacy.
If we can bring awareness tothese issues that was happening
in their community there's amission within each mile of
every church then that helps usto get more advocates for these
children and for the foster caresystem in general.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
How do you think we I meanyou've mentioned several times
some of the brokenness we see inthis world right, which can be
very heavy, very hard to carry,to watch kids that you love go
home to homes that you know arenot safe yet to watch, to even
watch biological parents thatare struggling because of their
(12:45):
own trauma, probably no fault oftheir own to begin with, and
they just haven't healed?
So you're seeing all of thisbrokenness and hurt.
How do you reconcile that withyour faith?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Well, you know, I never set out to be a foster
parent.
It was nothing.
I never wanted to do.
I believe a lot of themisconceptions that kids in
foster care are bad kids andfoster parents are weird people.
That last one's true, it's verytrue.
It's a completely different kindof lifestyle when you have a
child in your crisis, in yourhome, 24 hours a day, seven days
(13:24):
a week.
That has issues of trust,issues of attachment.
So I didn't want to do it, butit's something that I believe
that God has certainly plannedon me to do.
But I think I reconcile thefact that you know I love the
story, the starfish story.
Are you familiar with thestarfish story?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
For those of you listeners who aren't familiar
with it, very, very, verybriefly.
It's a father and son walkingalong a beach after a huge storm
one night and the next morningthe sun's coming up.
The beach is loaded, litteredwith starfish, from one end of
the beach to the other,thousands of starfish.
And the sun's starting to comeup and the sun's starting to
bake the starfish and they'restarting to die.
(14:00):
And the sun bends down andpicks up a starfish, throws in
the ocean, bends down to pick upanother one, throws in the
ocean.
Finally, he father says son,there are thousands of starfish,
you can't make a difference.
And the son thinks about it.
He bends down, throws anotherone in the ocean, says I made a
difference for that one.
And that's how I feel it iswith these children.
(14:21):
And I often tell foster parents, I often tell foster parents
that years from now, thesechildren who we're caring for in
our home, they may neverremember a name and they may
never remember a face, butthey'll remember something for a
time in their life, and maybethe only time in their life,
those children were loved.
And I can't change the worldand you can't change the world.
(14:43):
But for those children in ourhome today.
Their world is changed.
So if we can change the life ofa child, even one child, to me
that is well worth it.
You know Matthew 25, 35, whichis one of the quotes in one of
my books.
It says For I was hungry, yougave me something to eat.
I was thirsty, you gave mesomething to drink.
I was naked, you gave meclothing.
(15:03):
That's to me, that's thesechildren.
These are God's children.
These are God's children.
So we are all called to carefor these children.
But, yeah, there are days whereI thought, you know, the system
has failed this child.
I'm upset, I'm angry, my heartis broken.
I can't continue this anymore.
Am I making a difference?
But then I look at a childwho's learning how to smile for
(15:23):
the very first time in my home,or that child who's learning how
to trust for the first time, orthe child whose first four
words they could learn how tospeak was I love you, mommy.
And she said that to my wifeand I think, yeah, this is all
worth it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
This is all worth it, absolutely.
Well, what do you thinkdiscourages Christians from
stepping into this space?
Because I think so manyChristians are looking for
purpose.
They do want to make adifference.
So then, what keeps them backfrom stepping into something
like this, and not necessarilystepping up to foster, but
(15:59):
stepping up to serve in some way?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, you know, when I talk about human trafficking
which there are certain aspectsof human trafficking that cross
over with foster care I oftentell people that a human I've
written this dozens of times andtold the media this a thousand
times there are.
Human trafficking is America'sugly secret.
It makes us feel uncomfortableso we don't address it, we brush
(16:24):
under the carpet, pretend itdoes not exist.
Same thing with foster care.
These are not stories that areheartwarming.
These are stories that areheartbreaking and so many people
might think you know what.
I can't do that.
Or they believe it's too hardto get the kids back.
Or they believe these kids arebad kids.
Or they believe I don't knowwhere to start.
Or they think you know thosefoster parents.
(16:47):
I knew they were just kind ofcrazy.
So there's a lot of thosemisconceptions or misbeliefs
that might prevent somebody fromdoing it.
You know, I tell people youdon't have to be rich, you don't
have to have a big house, youdon't have to be married, you
just have to have really a heartto care for these children and
then call up after you talk toyour partner or spouse about it
because you both have to be onboard.
(17:07):
It's critical that are both onboard.
In fact the whole family unithas to be on board or it's not
going to work.
Then you call the Shaw WelfareAgency and say I'm ready to
start.
But as I said earlier, noteverybody can be a foster parent
, but they can help in other,different ways.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Absolutely so.
How do we encourage otherpeople to do that?
How do we get you know, how canour listeners, who are foster
parents that have a passion forthis space, they see the need,
they understand the needs, and Imean a lot of times I see
foster parents get into this andthey're like everybody should
know about this.
(17:43):
But how do they practicallyhelp encourage others to step up
without let me put it in acaveat without kind of
overwhelming people, because Ithink when people aren't in this
space sometimes we can be likea tidal wave of information
because we do get to be sopassionate about it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Well, that passion is important, to be sure.
Yeah, yeah yeah, you know, Ithink, as I said earlier,
awareness equals advocacy.
If you could share some of thelife-changing experiences that
foster parents face with others,you bring a little bit of
(18:26):
awareness to these children andthey want to help those kids.
And then sometimes I think youjust said your own church they
saw people foster parenting.
You lead by example.
You lead by example, you sharesome stories and then you can
ask others for help.
You know I need help.
I need help with meals or Ineed help with clothes or might
be, and that might lead tosomebody becoming a foster
parent as well.
You know, one of the things thatwe're doing here in the state
(18:47):
of Georgia is we're travelingacross the state of Georgia.
I'm working with AmeriGroup,which is the health care
provider of the state for kidsin foster care.
We're traveling from one end tothe other to help with
recruitment and retention.
One thing we're doing is we'rehelping to establish foster
parent support groups in thoseareas that don't have it.
Many times when a church setsup a foster parent support group
(19:09):
in their church and somebody'svolunteering whether it's
providing meals, doing daycare,but I found over and over again,
not just in Georgia but acrosscountry, is some of those
volunteers are saying you knowwhat?
Maybe I love doing this, MaybeI'm ready for the next step,
Maybe I'm ready to take thatnext, to go to the next level
here and have these childrenplaced in my home as well.
And also there's respite.
(19:30):
There's also respite care.
Some people can't do it fulltime, but maybe they can do it
for the weekends and help otherfoster parents out through
respite care.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, yeah, we've seen that too.
We're at a really big churchnow that started a foster care
ministry like two years ago, andwe have seen we've already had
like three foster parents becomelicensed because they
originally started out asvolunteers bringing meals,
bringing whatever, and then theyrealized, hey, we could do this
(20:00):
.
I think when you see it upclose it becomes easier, it
becomes not so foreign, itbecomes a real tangible thing
where you can visualize yourselfin that position.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Oh, absolutely, I agree, 100%, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So how do you take what you know?
Right, you have a doctorate infoster care.
How do you take what you knowand apply it in your home on a
regular basis, both in a faithaspect and a trauma-informed
aspect?
How does that play out?
Because I think sometimespeople learn stuff but have
trouble applying it practically.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, I've lived in Michigan, Delaware, new York,
spent a lot of time living inSweden for a while, and I
recognize that every snowflakeis beautiful and unique.
It's the same with every child.
Every child is different andunique, which means every time a
child comes to my home, it'sgoing to be a different
(21:04):
experience and the children mayhave come from similar
backgrounds.
Maybe I've had kids placed in ahome who has similar
backgrounds, maybe it's even alarge sibling group.
We've had several siblinggroups of three, four and five,
but they're all going to reactdifferently.
So that means part of mytraining tells me that I need to
continue to adapt.
I need to continue to learn foreach child.
(21:26):
What works with one child iscertainly not going to work with
another child, even though theyhave mirroring experiences,
even though they're in the samefamily.
So that means it's continuingeducation.
That's one of the things we'redoing as the foster care
institute is.
We try to continue to provideeducation because during 2020,
we lost a lot of good fosterparents.
(21:47):
A lot of good foster parents.
What we did when you have 5million children experience
domestic violence in their houseevery day?
We locked those kids at homewith their abusers and we said
schools are closed, you can't goto school because it's unsafe.
Well, instead we locked them athome with their abusers 24
hours a day, with no mandatedreporter.
We lost a lot of good fosterparents, and today's foster
(22:08):
parents are not really equippedto handle what I think is the
real pandemic mental health.
We're in a mental health crisis.
So when you have childrenplaced in your home who have
issues of mental health, we'rein a mental health crisis.
So when you have childrenplaced in your home who have
issues of mental health, you'vegot to constantly adapt, update,
learn new skills.
As far as a faith-based part,you know we just model it every
(22:30):
single day, at all times in ourlife.
You know our house is a houseof prayer.
Our house is a house of faith.
I told my kids a long time agomy oldest is 29.
I told her a long time agodoesn't matter what you're doing
Saturday night, doesn't matterhow late you get home Saturday
night, sunday morning, we'regoing to church as a family and
(22:51):
we're praying together as afamily and because these kids
and their place in our home,they're members of our family
and so they will.
No, they're coming fromdifferent faiths.
Of course.
We will embrace that.
We embrace different cultures,so we're always embracing new
things, including differentaspects of people's faith, but
(23:11):
we're also going to practice ourfaith Now.
We don't preach it, to be sure,but we practice it Now.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
We don't preach it to be sure, but we practice it
yeah, yeah.
And do you see that that makesa difference in kids and in
biological parents that you workwith, in your ability to share
love and hope in a way thatmaybe some other people aren't?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Oh, to be sure.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I think a lot of people seethese children.
Their hearts are broken, theydon't know what to do, and then
we can come alongside them in afaith fashion and say you know
what?
We are all hurting in some way,but there is love out there and
I believe that every childdeserves well.
Kids in foster care need threethings, I believe Stability
(23:53):
structure more than anythingelse.
Unconditional love.
Yeah, foster parents tell me.
People always tell me I can'tdo what you do.
It hurts too much to give thekids back, and that's how it's
supposed to be.
It's exactly how it's supposedto be.
These kids need us to love themwith all of our hearts.
So they do, for whatever reasonit might be.
Yes, our hearts are broken, butwe've given them a gift of love
(24:13):
that, hopefully, will blossominto something much richer for
them.
And that's the same way withGod's love.
You know God loves each of ustoo, and I think we can share
that with other people who mightnot see it.
You know, I've had some kidsthat come to my home and when
they go to our church on Sundaymorning and people are there
waiting at the door for our kidsfor foster care to sweep them
(24:34):
up, to give them hugs, to givethem hugs, to give them love, to
give them attention, whateverit might be.
That's helping these childrenform healthy attachments with
others as well.
It's helping these children tobuild trust with others as well,
because kids in foster careoften struggle with issues of
trust, issues of attachment.
It's going to take them forsome of them it may take a long
(24:55):
time to trust my wife and I.
It's going to take them forsome of them.
It may take a long time to trustmy wife and I.
We also need to help themdevelop other healthy
relationships with caring, safeadults, and I think sometimes
that can happen in the churchsetting as well.
It certainly happens in ourhouse.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Oh yeah, I agree.
I remember one time we took ourkids to church one of the first
times and the next week we comeback and it's the same people
that are like saying hi and theywere like, oh, I saw those
people last week.
You know, a lot of times kidscoming into care may not have
tight community that they see ona regular basis.
If they did have good communitythen they would probably be
(25:34):
placed with them and not in afoster home.
So you know, being able to seeand form a world's view that
it's not just these people thatare safe, but the world can be a
safe place.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And that's part of that stability you talk about,
because you're having a stablerelationship.
That's part of the consistency,because they are seeing the
same people as you mentionedweek after week after week.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, so that can be a big difference.
How can the church wrap aroundbiological parents?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, to begin with, prayer yeah, to be sure, prayer.
You know, one of the thingsI've loved doing across the
country is helping churchesestablish a program called well,
in some churches it's calledSafe Haven.
For example, a church will havea ministry program where,
(26:26):
instead of a visitation beingheld at a cold, judgmental child
welfare office in the eyes ofthe birth parents, because it's
a place they don't want to be.
To be sure, a church can havevisitations at their church
where the foster parent dropsoff the child and goes and does
shopping or go to the movies orgo out to eat, where it might be
.
The birth parents come to thechurch, which is a warm,
(26:49):
welcoming, neutral environment.
Church volunteers are there,they've been trained to monitor
and supervise the visitation andthe birth parents can be there
again.
An environment that ishopefully a neutral environment.
It's not the child welfareoffice, where they may have
preconceived notions right aboutwhere they may think is the bad
(27:10):
place, um, where it's not coldand you know, and and and stuffy
, if you will.
Uh, and hopefully those churchmembers will be able to show
they'll treat them in anonjudgmental fashion but
instead meet them with kindness,compassion, patience, caring
and love.
And who knows, that mightchange the birth parent as well,
(27:34):
because for some birth parentsit might be the first time
they've ever walked into achurch, correct.
Or it could be for the firsttime they've walked into a
church and not felt judged orcriticized or looked at in a bad
fashion.
Maybe they had poor experiencesin their own church as a child.
So I think that's a great way.
Some churches and again that'sanother ministry we talk about
(27:56):
that in the book the church andfoster care as well.
So prayer, a program like that,maybe helping after
reunification to continue towrap around some services for
reunification 50% of kids infoster care are reunified.
Of that, 50%, 20% to 30% comeback into care after
reunification.
Because maybe the birth parentssink back in their own
depression, their own addictions.
(28:18):
Maybe they are struggling withadditional stress that they
weren't prepared for, maybethey've.
Whatever they might be, maybe,and the CPS is long gone, yeah,
because the reunification hashappened and CPS is off to the
next child.
So maybe the church can comearound and help birth parents in
that fashion as well.
Again, those are just a few ofthe many, many ways the church
(28:39):
can help.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, we had that happen one time.
So there was a birth parent,the foster parent was in our
church.
Kids were reunified with thebirth mom.
The birth mom had gotten kindof involved or kind of plugged
in.
Some people had started pouringinto her at our church and when
(29:00):
she got reunified she had a job.
They have to keep a job, keephousing all of these things, and
as a single mom that can be alot sometimes.
Well, her car she got in a caraccident and her car was totaled
and so she didn't have a car.
Well, that one thing can besomething that completely pushes
them over the edge.
(29:21):
It completely pushes them overthe edge.
It could have meant those kidscoming back into care, but it
didn't because the church stoodup.
The church got her access to acar so that she could continue
to go to her job, to earn moneyto pay for her housing, to keep
everything stable.
But she needed that communityand I think a lot of times we
(29:42):
forget that biological parents,when they are reunified with
their kids, still need thatcommunity.
We see that need for communityand foster parents in our church
members and stuff, but seeingthe need for that in bio parents
is awesome as well.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You know, earlier today I met with a state
representative out of the stateof Michigan.
It was actually the thirdmeeting I had this week with at
least one politician and everytime I meet with them, I tell
them the government can't do itby itself.
Faith-based organizations haveto come on side to help.
In fact, during the June Ithink it was July of 2020, when
(30:27):
the entire world was locked down, I said to heck with this.
And I went to Washington DCwith a good friend of mine, jen
Lilly, who's a strong Christian,foster, adoptive parent, but
she's also a movie star withHallmark.
Our book comes out next yeartogether and we talked to
legislators and said you know,we talked about reunification.
We talked about reunification,reform, about these kids going
(30:50):
into care and, I'm sorry, goingback home and then further
trauma, even death sometimes.
And we addressed legislatorsacross the country that, hey,
the church has to come on board.
You can't do it by yourself.
50 different states, 50different ways of doing foster
care.
None of them are perfect.
Every state does it differently.
Some do it better than others.
Sure, it is all different, butnone of them are thriving, if
(31:15):
you will Right.
Every state right now isstruggling with retention.
Every state is struggling rightnow with reunification I'm
sorry, with recruitment, whichis a lot of my work.
I mean, I go across the countryhelping agencies with a.
We have a seven platformrecruitment policy, the foster
care institute.
So our legislators need torecognize that the faith-based
(31:40):
organization has a vital part inthis because it's in their
community.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's people that are ready
to serve, it's that ready-madecommunity that's ready to serve.
The city that I live in iscurrently in the process of
becoming a foster-friendly citywhere we have churches and
businesses kind of step up tocommit to supporting foster
(32:05):
parents and the foster carecommunity and we have an event
coming up.
One of the things that we havedone those of us that are
planning the event is reallyreached out to churches and
invited them Like come, hear howyou can get involved, hear how
you can stand up and be ananswer to this call.
And in our community we do havea lot of faith communities that
(32:25):
have stood up and are kind ofmeeting that need.
But it is still there's so muchmore that is needed in this
process, in this realm, on thisjourney for foster parents, for
biological parents, just for ourcity to be able to thrive,
because this affects ourcommunities all the way around.
(32:47):
If we don't get involved here,right when kids are in foster
care, when we see this need, ifwe don't get involved here, then
it's going to be issues in ourprison system, in our homeless
population, in our drugpopulation, in trafficking,
right, like it kind of spreadsout across the board and those
kids most likely are going togrow up to be parents that have
(33:10):
kids in the system.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So that number is going to multiply 55% of kids
who age out of the system willdrop out of school, 65% end up
incarcerated, 75% end uphomeless and the cycle starts
for over for so many.
Two of the three have adoptedare third generation foster care
, which means their parents andgrandparents were also in the
system and the system failedthem in some way.
I often tell churches the samething I tell legislators these
(33:34):
aren't goods and services, theseare children.
So there should be a sense ofurgency right now to help these
children, because the longer wewait, the more time we have
discussion and policy instead ofaction, the more we place
children at risk.
Just last week, I was at achurch helping them set up a
foster parent support group aspart of ministry, and the foster
(33:55):
parents come together once amonth at the church.
There is a meal cooked by theboundaries of the church, the
church volunteers have.
They supervise the children,playing games with children,
where the foster parents havetraining afterwards.
It's an opportunity for fosterparents to come together again
and a faith based organizationthey feel welcomed.
Yeah, and foster parents cancan join each other.
(34:19):
They need, they have to have asupport group of some fashion,
otherwise, and that's why welost so many foster parents in
2020, because we, we stoppedthat, we, we, we forbid that and
for a lot of churches, you know, they think, okay, this is a
great way to start.
It's a great way to start.
And then again I mentionedearlier time, after time, I see
people starting these fosterparent support groups at their
(34:40):
church and then say you knowwhat, how can I help more?
And then that might lead toanother foster parent.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Well, when you see the need, when you see the need,
I think it's harder to turnaway.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yes, yes Right.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Well, dr John, how can people find you, how can
they get in touch with you?
How can they utilize theresources that you have to offer
?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Oh, thanks for asking .
A quick search online.
If you search Dr John DeGarmo,foster care expert, or if you
search for the Foster CareInstitute, my website will come
up there.
There's I mean goodness, thinkof it as a one-stop shop, if you
will for all things.
Foster care.
Four years of podcasts I didwebinars, videos, articles, not
(35:28):
just for foster care adoption,kinship, parenting in general.
Of course, I'm on social mediaFacebook, Twitter, youtube,
linkedin.
Dr John DeGramo foster careexpert.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So there's many, many ways to find me Awesome.
Well, I'll link some of thosein the show notes so that people
can find them, but I thank youso much for joining me today.
This was a wealth of knowledgefor our listeners to kind of
gain some wisdom on how to, youknow, lean into their church
communities, maybe recruit otherpeople and encourage others to
get involved.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Thank you, and I just want to close with what I said
earlier today.
You know I can't change theworld and you can't change the
world, but for that child you'recaring for today, their world
is being changed, and that'swhat God calls us to do.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Thank you so much to Dr John DeGarmo for talking with
us today.
Those of us that are on thefront lines of foster care and
adoption really have the mostpotential to affect change.
When it comes to the church'sinvolvement, we know what it
takes and for most of us, it isour passion.
If you have questions on how toget your church involved or how
(36:30):
to get other churches in yourcommunity involved, I would love
to help.
Feel free to connect with me onInstagram at Nicole T Barlow,
or I will put my email in theshow notes as well.
As we close, let me pray for us.
Father, we thank you for thegift of your church, the body
you've called to be your handsand your feet in a world that's
(36:52):
hurting.
Today, we lift up every childin foster care, every biological
family in crisis and everyfoster and adoptive family,
saying yes to the hard and holywork of love.
Lord, stir our hearts to seethe needs around us and give us
courage to respond.
Break our hearts for whatbreaks yours and remind us that
(37:14):
this calling is not about whatwe can do in our own strength,
but about what you can dothrough us.
We ask that you would protectand guide the children who feel
unseen, that you would bringhealing to the broken and that
you would raise up your churchto be a place of refuge,
restoration and hope.
May we leave this conversationnot only inspired, but willing
(37:37):
willing to pray, willing toserve, willing to give and
willing to step into the mess,because that's exactly where you
are.
We love you, lord, we trust you.
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:32):
joy.
I want you host, Nicole TBarlow.
(01:00):
Depending on where you live,this may or may not be true for
you, but for us, depending onwhere you live, this may or may
not be true for you, but for us,school is back in session and
we are back to routine.
Well, for my family, we'reactually starting a whole new
routine.
My youngest three kids havealways been homeschooled, but
this year they are all attendinga physical school of some sort.
(01:20):
So now we're getting up earlyand navigating car line y'all.
And just a side note, whoevermade up the thing where you need
to get in afternoon car line anhour and a half early just so
you aren't at the very end ofthe line?
I'm not sure I'm loving thatpart, but we are all adjusting
and we are all excited aboutthis next year and all that it
(01:42):
can bring.
I think it's going to be reallygood some really good changes
for my family.
I'm also really excited aboutthis next year on the podcast.
This season we have some reallyamazing guests scheduled and
we're going to navigate togetherthe many dynamics that we face
in foster care, adoption andfaith.
(02:03):
Today we are kicking things offwith Dr John DeGarmo.
Dr John is an expert inparenting and foster care and is
a TEDx Talk presenter.
Dr John is the founder anddirector of the Foster Care
Institute.
He and his wife have had over60 children come through their
home as foster parents.
(02:23):
He is the author of severalfoster care books and has
appeared on CNN, hln, goodMorning America, nbc, fox, cbs
and PB stations across thenation.
We're going to be discussing theimportance and the role of the
church in foster care today.
I truly believe that the crisisthat we see in foster care is
(02:44):
just waiting for the church toreally respond.
The Lord has prepared us tomeet this need.
So how do we do that?
How do we share and encourageothers in the church to step in?
How do we share a realisticpicture of what being a foster
parent looks like butsimultaneously share God's
faithfulness in the midst of itall we're going to talk about it
(03:07):
today.
Let's get started.
Hi, john, welcome to thepodcast.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself, introduce yourself and
tell us how you got involved inthe foster care world.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Sure, I'm Dr John or Dr John DeGarmo.
I'm founder and director of theFoster Care Institute.
I work with child welfareagencies, foster care programs,
legislators across the countryand globe trying to reform the
foster care system and help withretention and recruitment and
just make the system better foreverybody.
Overall, I've been a fosterparent myself to over 60-plus
children who have come throughour home and been a part of our
(03:40):
family and, of course, haveadopted three, and my wife and I
became foster parents after thedeath of our first child in
Australia, where my wife is from, and then moving back to the US
.
We wanted to help more children.
I was actually teaching in arural school system in middle
Georgia at that time this islate, late 1990s we moved back
(04:02):
to the US and I had some kids inmy classroom.
A lot of kids in my classroomwere victims of neglect and
abuse and abandonment in thisvery, very small rural town with
lots of rural apathy and ruralpoverty.
And I also had a lot of victimsof human trafficking in my
classroom too, because at thattime in this rural community in
(04:22):
the late 90s there was thelargest child sex trafficking
ring in America happening undereverybody's noses Wow, and
actually, the person waseventually arrested for bringing
over 1,000-plus children overstate lines for trafficking in
this small town maybe 3,000,4,000 people, and so a lot of
those kids, a lot of thosesurvivors, were in my classroom.
(04:45):
So I went to my wife and said,hey, we lost our first child.
We have three healthy childrennow and we both have led a life
of serving others in some way.
That's how we met traveling theworld, singing and dancing in a
performing group that also dida lot of outreach, and so these
kids are in my classroom.
How can we help others?
So that led to us becomingfoster parents.
(05:07):
That led to me getting mydoctorate in foster care and
writing umpteen books, and nowI'm blessed to travel the globe
helping others.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
Well, tell me how faith plays a part in your
journey.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Oh, for me, I couldn't do it.
I couldn't do it without it.
I mean, you know, I write in mybook Faith and Foster Care.
I couldn't do it without myfaith.
You know, 85% of foster parentsstate that they rely on their
faith to help them throughfoster parenting.
You know, foster parenting,even though it's the most
(05:43):
rewarding thing I've done, themost life-changing thing I've
done, it's also been the hardestthing I've done.
You know, there have been sometimes where we did not agree
with the reunification.
There have been times wherewe've also experienced four
failed adoptions, which are allheart-wrenching.
There have been times wherewe've had kids and we've had as
many as 11 kids in our house atthe same time, including seven
(06:03):
in diapers, and both my wife andI work full-time jobs.
She's a doctor of naturopathicmedicines and we don't have no
help, so that can be exhaustingon so many levels.
So there are days where I say,god, I cannot do this today.
I'm burned out, I'm worn down,I'm exhausted, my heart is
broken.
I'm struggling with this childwho has anger issues.
(06:25):
I've got seven in diapers.
I got to get taken care ofbefore school starts for the
kids.
I'm worn down.
So you know, I look to my faithto help me through, and my wife
too.
You know we both are verystrong people in our faith, so
we rely upon that, and you know.
And then we look at our church.
As I wrote in the book theChurch and Foster Care, I
(06:46):
believe that the next greatmission for today's faith-based
organizations whatever faiththat is is the foster care
program here in America.
We don't have to go to Mexicoor Honduras or Nicaragua I've
done all that to find a missionfield.
There is a mission field inevery community.
There's usually a child incrisis within a mile of every
church.
In some way You've got 5million kids who experience
(07:07):
domestic violence in their houseevery single day.
So there's an opportunity forthe church to really create a
strong foster care outreachprogram, strong foster care
ministry, if you will, to helpthe foster parents, help the
kids, help the birth parents,who are also children of God.
So yeah again, my faith isprominent in my foster parenting
(07:31):
experience and I know it is forthe majority of foster parents.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
Yeah, I really don't know how you do it.
So I train for a localChristian foster care agency.
So the way that we train fosterparents is we take the state
training but we incorporatefaith aspects and the gospel and
all of that into the trainingand help parents I mean it's
training missionaries, right,and so we help parents kind of
(07:56):
learn how to navigate the systemfrom a faith perspective.
I don't see how you do itotherwise, like I don't know how
you teach people to do this andjust suck it up.
Whereas my wife says suck it upbuttercup a driving factor into
(08:27):
why we got into this.
It's a driving factor for whywe keep going.
I think it becomes harder ifyou don't have that.
So how do we help the churchrecognize this need and really
step up to answer this call tomake this the next great mission
?
Speaker 2 (08:42):
You know, in that book, the Church and Foster Care
, there are several strategies.
Every chapter is filled withdifferent strategies a church
can use to create a foster careministry, as I mentioned, in
their own church.
You know, not everybody can bea foster parent, not everybody
should be a foster parent, buteverybody can help in some way
(09:02):
and there are many ways.
Faith-based organizations cando that by coming alongside a
foster parent support groupassociation and hosting it, by
having clothes closets or foodministry, by coming alongside
foster parents during theholidays and providing gifts for
birthdays and Christmases, tohaving a clothes closet, hygiene
items, school supplies.
(09:23):
Those are just a few of thementors Yep having a clothes,
closet, hygiene items, schoolsupplies.
Those are just a few of thementors, just a few of the many,
many ways that faith-basedorganizations and just people in
general can help children infoster care.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Yeah, I think all of that is really important.
When we got into this, ourchurch, when we first stepped
into foster care, our church wasalready starting that path to
create a foster care ministry.
And then About halfway throughour journey, we changed churches
and I went to the pastor andI'm like, hey, I would like to
(09:54):
start a foster care ministry andhe said, no, we will never do
anything like that here.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Right and I'm like okay.
Speaker 1 (10:05):
And so I mean I just let it go and I just prayed like
Lord, make sure that we havesupport, surround us with people
who naturally support us in ournatural community, and all of
those things.
And we did, we had that naturalsupport.
But, very interesting, as weprayed through that, there
became so many foster familiesthat stepped up in this church
(10:28):
just organically, that a yearlater that same pastor came to
me and said, okay, we've got todo something.
We have too many foster parentsin this church and we're not
supporting them.
We need a ministry to supportthem.
And it grew into a thrivingfoster care ministry that was
(10:49):
recognized by child welfareagencies and the Children's
Bureau and all of thosedifferent things.
But it was just organically.
God grew this thing even whenthe pastor was saying that he
didn't want to.
So you know, I think prayer isanother way that we can step
into that and it doesn't.
(11:10):
That doesn't necessarily, Imean provide the structure that
you were talking about, but ithelps, I think, kind of initiate
that process.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Oh, prayer, to be sure, and my book, faith and
Foster Care, talks about how wecan pray for the foster parents,
the birth parents, who are alsochildren.
I mean, these birth parents mayhave committed heinous crimes
towards the children.
At the same time they're stillchildren of God.
God loves them just as much ashe loves you and I.
Our sins are no smaller thantheirs.
Their sins are no bigger thanours in God's eyes, and many
(11:39):
times birth parents arestruggling with their own issues
of trauma, issues of anxiety,where they never got the
professional help that theyneeded.
You know, one of the things I dois I travel the nation working
with faith-based foster careprograms like yours and churches
.
I speak at a lot of churches tohelp them set up their foster
care ministry, because many say,hey, we don't know where to
(12:00):
start.
We don't know where to start,or maybe they're not, they don't
have the awareness.
I'm a firm believer thatawareness equals advocacy.
If we can bring awareness tothese issues that was happening
in their community there's amission within each mile of
every church then that helps usto get more advocates for these
children and for the foster caresystem in general.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Yeah, absolutely.
How do you think we I meanyou've mentioned several times
some of the brokenness we see inthis world right, which can be
very heavy, very hard to carry,to watch kids that you love go
home to homes that you know arenot safe yet to watch, to even
watch biological parents thatare struggling because of their
(12:45):
own trauma, probably no fault oftheir own to begin with, and
they just haven't healed?
So you're seeing all of thisbrokenness and hurt.
How do you reconcile that withyour faith?
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Well, you know, I never set out to be a foster
parent.
It was nothing.
I never wanted to do.
I believe a lot of themisconceptions that kids in
foster care are bad kids andfoster parents are weird people.
That last one's true, it's verytrue.
It's a completely different kindof lifestyle when you have a
child in your crisis, in yourhome, 24 hours a day, seven days
(13:24):
a week.
That has issues of trust,issues of attachment.
So I didn't want to do it, butit's something that I believe
that God has certainly plannedon me to do.
But I think I reconcile thefact that you know I love the
story, the starfish story.
Are you familiar with thestarfish story?
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (13:38):
For those of you listeners who aren't familiar
with it, very, very, verybriefly.
It's a father and son walkingalong a beach after a huge storm
one night and the next morningthe sun's coming up.
The beach is loaded, litteredwith starfish, from one end of
the beach to the other,thousands of starfish.
And the sun's starting to comeup and the sun's starting to
bake the starfish and they'restarting to die.
(14:00):
And the sun bends down andpicks up a starfish, throws in
the ocean, bends down to pick upanother one, throws in the
ocean.
Finally, he father says son,there are thousands of starfish,
you can't make a difference.
And the son thinks about it.
He bends down, throws anotherone in the ocean, says I made a
difference for that one.
And that's how I feel it iswith these children.
(14:21):
And I often tell foster parents, I often tell foster parents
that years from now, thesechildren who we're caring for in
our home, they may neverremember a name and they may
never remember a face, butthey'll remember something for a
time in their life, and maybethe only time in their life,
those children were loved.
And I can't change the worldand you can't change the world.
(14:43):
But for those children in ourhome today.
Their world is changed.
So if we can change the life ofa child, even one child, to me
that is well worth it.
You know Matthew 25, 35, whichis one of the quotes in one of
my books.
It says For I was hungry, yougave me something to eat.
I was thirsty, you gave mesomething to drink.
I was naked, you gave meclothing.
(15:03):
That's to me, that's thesechildren.
These are God's children.
These are God's children.
So we are all called to carefor these children.
But, yeah, there are days whereI thought, you know, the system
has failed this child.
I'm upset, I'm angry, my heartis broken.
I can't continue this anymore.
Am I making a difference?
But then I look at a childwho's learning how to smile for
(15:23):
the very first time in my home,or that child who's learning how
to trust for the first time, orthe child whose first four
words they could learn how tospeak was I love you, mommy.
And she said that to my wifeand I think, yeah, this is all
worth it.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
This is all worth it, absolutely.
Well, what do you thinkdiscourages Christians from
stepping into this space?
Because I think so manyChristians are looking for
purpose.
They do want to make adifference.
So then, what keeps them backfrom stepping into something
like this, and not necessarilystepping up to foster, but
(15:59):
stepping up to serve in some way?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, you know, when I talk about human trafficking
which there are certain aspectsof human trafficking that cross
over with foster care I oftentell people that a human I've
written this dozens of times andtold the media this a thousand
times there are.
Human trafficking is America'sugly secret.
It makes us feel uncomfortableso we don't address it, we brush
(16:24):
under the carpet, pretend itdoes not exist.
Same thing with foster care.
These are not stories that areheartwarming.
These are stories that areheartbreaking and so many people
might think you know what.
I can't do that.
Or they believe it's too hardto get the kids back.
Or they believe these kids arebad kids.
Or they believe I don't knowwhere to start.
Or they think you know thosefoster parents.
(16:47):
I knew they were just kind ofcrazy.
So there's a lot of thosemisconceptions or misbeliefs
that might prevent somebody fromdoing it.
You know, I tell people youdon't have to be rich, you don't
have to have a big house, youdon't have to be married, you
just have to have really a heartto care for these children and
then call up after you talk toyour partner or spouse about it
because you both have to be onboard.
(17:07):
It's critical that are both onboard.
In fact the whole family unithas to be on board or it's not
going to work.
Then you call the Shaw WelfareAgency and say I'm ready to
start.
But as I said earlier, noteverybody can be a foster parent
, but they can help in other,different ways.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Absolutely so.
How do we encourage otherpeople to do that?
How do we get you know, how canour listeners, who are foster
parents that have a passion forthis space, they see the need,
they understand the needs, and Imean a lot of times I see
foster parents get into this andthey're like everybody should
know about this.
(17:43):
But how do they practicallyhelp encourage others to step up
without let me put it in acaveat without kind of
overwhelming people, because Ithink when people aren't in this
space sometimes we can be likea tidal wave of information
because we do get to be sopassionate about it.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Well, that passion is important, to be sure.
Yeah, yeah yeah, you know, Ithink, as I said earlier,
awareness equals advocacy.
If you could share some of thelife-changing experiences that
foster parents face with others,you bring a little bit of
(18:26):
awareness to these children andthey want to help those kids.
And then sometimes I think youjust said your own church they
saw people foster parenting.
You lead by example.
You lead by example, you sharesome stories and then you can
ask others for help.
You know I need help.
I need help with meals or Ineed help with clothes or might
be, and that might lead tosomebody becoming a foster
parent as well.
You know, one of the things thatwe're doing here in the state
(18:47):
of Georgia is we're travelingacross the state of Georgia.
I'm working with AmeriGroup,which is the health care
provider of the state for kidsin foster care.
We're traveling from one end tothe other to help with
recruitment and retention.
One thing we're doing is we'rehelping to establish foster
parent support groups in thoseareas that don't have it.
Many times when a church setsup a foster parent support group
(19:09):
in their church and somebody'svolunteering whether it's
providing meals, doing daycare,but I found over and over again,
not just in Georgia but acrosscountry, is some of those
volunteers are saying you knowwhat?
Maybe I love doing this, MaybeI'm ready for the next step,
Maybe I'm ready to take thatnext, to go to the next level
here and have these childrenplaced in my home as well.
And also there's respite.
(19:30):
There's also respite care.
Some people can't do it fulltime, but maybe they can do it
for the weekends and help otherfoster parents out through
respite care.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
Yeah, yeah, we've seen that too.
We're at a really big churchnow that started a foster care
ministry like two years ago, andwe have seen we've already had
like three foster parents becomelicensed because they
originally started out asvolunteers bringing meals,
bringing whatever, and then theyrealized, hey, we could do this
(20:00):
.
I think when you see it upclose it becomes easier, it
becomes not so foreign, itbecomes a real tangible thing
where you can visualize yourselfin that position.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Oh, absolutely, I agree, 100%, yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
So how do you take what you know?
Right, you have a doctorate infoster care.
How do you take what you knowand apply it in your home on a
regular basis, both in a faithaspect and a trauma-informed
aspect?
How does that play out?
Because I think sometimespeople learn stuff but have
trouble applying it practically.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, I've lived in Michigan, Delaware, new York,
spent a lot of time living inSweden for a while, and I
recognize that every snowflakeis beautiful and unique.
It's the same with every child.
Every child is different andunique, which means every time a
child comes to my home, it'sgoing to be a different
(21:04):
experience and the children mayhave come from similar
backgrounds.
Maybe I've had kids placed in ahome who has similar
backgrounds, maybe it's even alarge sibling group.
We've had several siblinggroups of three, four and five,
but they're all going to reactdifferently.
So that means part of mytraining tells me that I need to
continue to adapt.
I need to continue to learn foreach child.
(21:26):
What works with one child iscertainly not going to work with
another child, even though theyhave mirroring experiences,
even though they're in the samefamily.
So that means it's continuingeducation.
That's one of the things we'redoing as the foster care
institute is.
We try to continue to provideeducation because during 2020,
we lost a lot of good fosterparents.
(21:47):
A lot of good foster parents.
What we did when you have 5million children experience
domestic violence in their houseevery day?
We locked those kids at homewith their abusers and we said
schools are closed, you can't goto school because it's unsafe.
Well, instead we locked them athome with their abusers 24
hours a day, with no mandatedreporter.
We lost a lot of good fosterparents, and today's foster
(22:08):
parents are not really equippedto handle what I think is the
real pandemic mental health.
We're in a mental health crisis.
So when you have childrenplaced in your home who have
issues of mental health, we'rein a mental health crisis.
So when you have childrenplaced in your home who have
issues of mental health, you'vegot to constantly adapt, update,
learn new skills.
As far as a faith-based part,you know we just model it every
(22:30):
single day, at all times in ourlife.
You know our house is a houseof prayer.
Our house is a house of faith.
I told my kids a long time agomy oldest is 29.
I told her a long time agodoesn't matter what you're doing
Saturday night, doesn't matterhow late you get home Saturday
night, sunday morning, we'regoing to church as a family and
(22:51):
we're praying together as afamily and because these kids
and their place in our home,they're members of our family
and so they will.
No, they're coming fromdifferent faiths.
Of course.
We will embrace that.
We embrace different cultures,so we're always embracing new
things, including differentaspects of people's faith, but
(23:11):
we're also going to practice ourfaith Now.
We don't preach it, to be sure,but we practice it Now.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
We don't preach it to be sure, but we practice it
yeah, yeah.
And do you see that that makesa difference in kids and in
biological parents that you workwith, in your ability to share
love and hope in a way thatmaybe some other people aren't?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Oh, to be sure.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
I think a lot of people seethese children.
Their hearts are broken, theydon't know what to do, and then
we can come alongside them in afaith fashion and say you know
what?
We are all hurting in some way,but there is love out there and
I believe that every childdeserves well.
Kids in foster care need threethings, I believe Stability
(23:53):
structure more than anythingelse.
Unconditional love.
Yeah, foster parents tell me.
People always tell me I can'tdo what you do.
It hurts too much to give thekids back, and that's how it's
supposed to be.
It's exactly how it's supposedto be.
These kids need us to love themwith all of our hearts.
So they do, for whatever reasonit might be.
Yes, our hearts are broken, butwe've given them a gift of love
(24:13):
that, hopefully, will blossominto something much richer for
them.
And that's the same way withGod's love.
You know God loves each of ustoo, and I think we can share
that with other people who mightnot see it.
You know, I've had some kidsthat come to my home and when
they go to our church on Sundaymorning and people are there
waiting at the door for our kidsfor foster care to sweep them
(24:34):
up, to give them hugs, to givethem hugs, to give them love, to
give them attention, whateverit might be.
That's helping these childrenform healthy attachments with
others as well.
It's helping these children tobuild trust with others as well,
because kids in foster careoften struggle with issues of
trust, issues of attachment.
It's going to take them forsome of them it may take a long
(24:55):
time to trust my wife and I.
It's going to take them forsome of them.
It may take a long time to trustmy wife and I.
We also need to help themdevelop other healthy
relationships with caring, safeadults, and I think sometimes
that can happen in the churchsetting as well.
It certainly happens in ourhouse.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
Oh yeah, I agree.
I remember one time we took ourkids to church one of the first
times and the next week we comeback and it's the same people
that are like saying hi and theywere like, oh, I saw those
people last week.
You know, a lot of times kidscoming into care may not have
tight community that they see ona regular basis.
If they did have good communitythen they would probably be
(25:34):
placed with them and not in afoster home.
So you know, being able to seeand form a world's view that
it's not just these people thatare safe, but the world can be a
safe place.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
And that's part of that stability you talk about,
because you're having a stablerelationship.
That's part of the consistency,because they are seeing the
same people as you mentionedweek after week after week.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Yeah, so that can be a big difference.
How can the church wrap aroundbiological parents?
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Well, to begin with, prayer yeah, to be sure, prayer.
You know, one of the thingsI've loved doing across the
country is helping churchesestablish a program called well,
in some churches it's calledSafe Haven.
For example, a church will havea ministry program where,
(26:26):
instead of a visitation beingheld at a cold, judgmental child
welfare office in the eyes ofthe birth parents, because it's
a place they don't want to be.
To be sure, a church can havevisitations at their church
where the foster parent dropsoff the child and goes and does
shopping or go to the movies orgo out to eat, where it might be
.
The birth parents come to thechurch, which is a warm,
(26:49):
welcoming, neutral environment.
Church volunteers are there,they've been trained to monitor
and supervise the visitation andthe birth parents can be there
again.
An environment that ishopefully a neutral environment.
It's not the child welfareoffice, where they may have
preconceived notions right aboutwhere they may think is the bad
(27:10):
place, um, where it's not coldand you know, and and and stuffy
, if you will.
Uh, and hopefully those churchmembers will be able to show
they'll treat them in anonjudgmental fashion but
instead meet them with kindness,compassion, patience, caring
and love.
And who knows, that mightchange the birth parent as well,
(27:34):
because for some birth parentsit might be the first time
they've ever walked into achurch, correct.
Or it could be for the firsttime they've walked into a
church and not felt judged orcriticized or looked at in a bad
fashion.
Maybe they had poor experiencesin their own church as a child.
So I think that's a great way.
Some churches and again that'sanother ministry we talk about
(27:56):
that in the book the church andfoster care as well.
So prayer, a program like that,maybe helping after
reunification to continue towrap around some services for
reunification 50% of kids infoster care are reunified.
Of that, 50%, 20% to 30% comeback into care after
reunification.
Because maybe the birth parentssink back in their own
depression, their own addictions.
(28:18):
Maybe they are struggling withadditional stress that they
weren't prepared for, maybethey've.
Whatever they might be, maybe,and the CPS is long gone, yeah,
because the reunification hashappened and CPS is off to the
next child.
So maybe the church can comearound and help birth parents in
that fashion as well.
Again, those are just a few ofthe many, many ways the church
(28:39):
can help.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, we had that happen one time.
So there was a birth parent,the foster parent was in our
church.
Kids were reunified with thebirth mom.
The birth mom had gotten kindof involved or kind of plugged
in.
Some people had started pouringinto her at our church and when
(29:00):
she got reunified she had a job.
They have to keep a job, keephousing all of these things, and
as a single mom that can be alot sometimes.
Well, her car she got in a caraccident and her car was totaled
and so she didn't have a car.
Well, that one thing can besomething that completely pushes
them over the edge.
(29:21):
It completely pushes them overthe edge.
It could have meant those kidscoming back into care, but it
didn't because the church stoodup.
The church got her access to acar so that she could continue
to go to her job, to earn moneyto pay for her housing, to keep
everything stable.
But she needed that communityand I think a lot of times we
(29:42):
forget that biological parents,when they are reunified with
their kids, still need thatcommunity.
We see that need for communityand foster parents in our church
members and stuff, but seeingthe need for that in bio parents
is awesome as well.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
You know, earlier today I met with a state
representative out of the stateof Michigan.
It was actually the thirdmeeting I had this week with at
least one politician and everytime I meet with them, I tell
them the government can't do itby itself.
Faith-based organizations haveto come on side to help.
In fact, during the June Ithink it was July of 2020, when
(30:27):
the entire world was locked down, I said to heck with this.
And I went to Washington DCwith a good friend of mine, jen
Lilly, who's a strong Christian,foster, adoptive parent, but
she's also a movie star withHallmark.
Our book comes out next yeartogether and we talked to
legislators and said you know,we talked about reunification.
We talked about reunification,reform, about these kids going
(30:50):
into care and, I'm sorry, goingback home and then further
trauma, even death sometimes.
And we addressed legislatorsacross the country that, hey,
the church has to come on board.
You can't do it by yourself.
50 different states, 50different ways of doing foster
care.
None of them are perfect.
Every state does it differently.
Some do it better than others.
Sure, it is all different, butnone of them are thriving, if
(31:15):
you will Right.
Every state right now isstruggling with retention.
Every state is struggling rightnow with reunification I'm
sorry, with recruitment, whichis a lot of my work.
I mean, I go across the countryhelping agencies with a.
We have a seven platformrecruitment policy, the foster
care institute.
So our legislators need torecognize that the faith-based
(31:40):
organization has a vital part inthis because it's in their
community.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, yeah, and I mean it's people that are ready
to serve, it's that ready-madecommunity that's ready to serve.
The city that I live in iscurrently in the process of
becoming a foster-friendly citywhere we have churches and
businesses kind of step up tocommit to supporting foster
(32:05):
parents and the foster carecommunity and we have an event
coming up.
One of the things that we havedone those of us that are
planning the event is reallyreached out to churches and
invited them Like come, hear howyou can get involved, hear how
you can stand up and be ananswer to this call.
And in our community we do havea lot of faith communities that
(32:25):
have stood up and are kind ofmeeting that need.
But it is still there's so muchmore that is needed in this
process, in this realm, on thisjourney for foster parents, for
biological parents, just for ourcity to be able to thrive,
because this affects ourcommunities all the way around.
(32:47):
If we don't get involved here,right when kids are in foster
care, when we see this need, ifwe don't get involved here, then
it's going to be issues in ourprison system, in our homeless
population, in our drugpopulation, in trafficking,
right, like it kind of spreadsout across the board and those
kids most likely are going togrow up to be parents that have
(33:10):
kids in the system.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
So that number is going to multiply 55% of kids
who age out of the system willdrop out of school, 65% end up
incarcerated, 75% end uphomeless and the cycle starts
for over for so many.
Two of the three have adoptedare third generation foster care
, which means their parents andgrandparents were also in the
system and the system failedthem in some way.
I often tell churches the samething I tell legislators these
(33:34):
aren't goods and services, theseare children.
So there should be a sense ofurgency right now to help these
children, because the longer wewait, the more time we have
discussion and policy instead ofaction, the more we place
children at risk.
Just last week, I was at achurch helping them set up a
foster parent support group aspart of ministry, and the foster
(33:55):
parents come together once amonth at the church.
There is a meal cooked by theboundaries of the church, the
church volunteers have.
They supervise the children,playing games with children,
where the foster parents havetraining afterwards.
It's an opportunity for fosterparents to come together again
and a faith based organizationthey feel welcomed.
Yeah, and foster parents cancan join each other.
(34:19):
They need, they have to have asupport group of some fashion,
otherwise, and that's why welost so many foster parents in
2020, because we, we stoppedthat, we, we, we forbid that and
for a lot of churches, you know, they think, okay, this is a
great way to start.
It's a great way to start.
And then again I mentionedearlier time, after time, I see
people starting these fosterparent support groups at their
(34:40):
church and then say you knowwhat, how can I help more?
And then that might lead toanother foster parent.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Well, when you see the need, when you see the need,
I think it's harder to turnaway.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
Yes, yes Right.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
Well, dr John, how can people find you, how can
they get in touch with you?
How can they utilize theresources that you have to offer
?
Speaker 2 (35:04):
Oh, thanks for asking .
A quick search online.
If you search Dr John DeGarmo,foster care expert, or if you
search for the Foster CareInstitute, my website will come
up there.
There's I mean goodness, thinkof it as a one-stop shop, if you
will for all things.
Foster care.
Four years of podcasts I didwebinars, videos, articles, not
(35:28):
just for foster care adoption,kinship, parenting in general.
Of course, I'm on social mediaFacebook, Twitter, youtube,
linkedin.
Dr John DeGramo foster careexpert.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So there's many, many ways to find me Awesome.
Well, I'll link some of thosein the show notes so that people
can find them, but I thank youso much for joining me today.
This was a wealth of knowledgefor our listeners to kind of
gain some wisdom on how to, youknow, lean into their church
communities, maybe recruit otherpeople and encourage others to
get involved.
Speaker 2 (35:55):
Thank you, and I just want to close with what I said
earlier today.
You know I can't change theworld and you can't change the
world, but for that child you'recaring for today, their world
is being changed, and that'swhat God calls us to do.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Thank you so much to Dr John DeGarmo for talking with
us today.
Those of us that are on thefront lines of foster care and
adoption really have the mostpotential to affect change.
When it comes to the church'sinvolvement, we know what it
takes and for most of us, it isour passion.
If you have questions on how toget your church involved or how
(36:30):
to get other churches in yourcommunity involved, I would love
to help.
Feel free to connect with me onInstagram at Nicole T Barlow,
or I will put my email in theshow notes as well.
As we close, let me pray for us.
Father, we thank you for thegift of your church, the body
you've called to be your handsand your feet in a world that's
(36:52):
hurting.
Today, we lift up every childin foster care, every biological
family in crisis and everyfoster and adoptive family,
saying yes to the hard and holywork of love.
Lord, stir our hearts to seethe needs around us and give us
courage to respond.
Break our hearts for whatbreaks yours and remind us that
(37:14):
this calling is not about whatwe can do in our own strength,
but about what you can dothrough us.
We ask that you would protectand guide the children who feel
unseen, that you would bringhealing to the broken and that
you would raise up your churchto be a place of refuge,
restoration and hope.
May we leave this conversationnot only inspired, but willing
(37:37):
willing to pray, willing toserve, willing to give and
willing to step into the mess,because that's exactly where you
are.
We love you, lord, we trust you.
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