June 11, 2025 • 30 mins
Parenting children from hard places requires an extraordinary partnership between spouses. In this candid conversation, Nicole interviews her husband Bruce about how they've navigated the challenges and joys of foster parenting as a team.
When Nicole first felt called to foster care, Bruce's immediate response was a firm "no." His journey from reluctance to acceptance reveals how important it is for both partners to independently hear God's calling rather than one spouse feeling coerced. Through vulnerably sharing their early missteps, the Barlows demonstrate how complementary differences between spouses can either strengthen or undermine trauma-informed parenting.
One of their most significant discoveries came after bringing home their sibling group of five. Bruce's natural bent toward being the "fun parent" while Nicole maintained structure created inconsistency that triggered their children's trauma responses. They learned that children with trauma backgrounds need both parents to provide high structure AND high nurture simultaneously—not the traditional "good cop/bad cop" division many couples naturally fall into.
The conversation takes a touching turn when they discuss how they support each other through parenting mistakes. Bruce shares how offering grace rather than criticism when Nicole becomes dysregulated creates space for repair—modeling for their children what healthy relationships look like, including how to mess up and make things right.
Their key advice? Both parents must become students of trauma-informed care. "It doesn't work for just one parent to do all the research and try to convey that to the other parent," Bruce emphasizes. This mutual commitment to understanding creates the unified approach that children with trauma desperately need.
Whether you're considering foster care, currently fostering, or simply wanting to strengthen your parenting partnership, this conversation offers practical wisdom for creating the consistent, loving environment where children—and marriages—can thrive.
I'd love to hear from you! Send me a text!
Connect with me on Instagram: @Fosterparentwell
@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/
Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey friend, welcome back to the Foster Parent Well
podcast.
We're doing something specialthis summer because, let's be
real, summer is loud andschedules are wild.
So, in the spirit of keepingthings simple and soul-filling,
we're hitting rewind All summerlong.
I'll be sharing some of myfavorite episodes from the past,
conversations that encouragedme, challenged me and reminded
(00:22):
me that God is still workingeven when life feels messy.
If you're new here, it's theperfect time to jump in, and if
you've been around for a while,think of this like a little
refresher, like your spiritualiced coffee on a hot summer day.
So let's soak in some truth,lean into God's grace and keep
showing up for the hard and holywork that we've been called to.
(00:43):
Let's jump into this Rewindepisode.
Welcome to the Foster ParentWell podcast, where we have real
candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
(01:04):
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell, so let's jump in.
Welcome to the podcast.
(01:40):
I'm your host, Nicole T Barlow.
The last couple of weeks havebeen a little crazy, so you
might have noticed that therewasn't a podcast that came out
last week, and that's justbecause.
Well, life as foster parentsand adoptive parents, I am sure
that you understand.
Today we have a very specialguest on the podcast we are
(02:03):
talking to my husband, bruceBarlow.
We're talking about how spousescan work together and really be
team players as they parentkids with trauma.
Well, hey, babe, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Hi, babe, thanks for having me on.
I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So we're going to talk today about spouses really
working together as a team.
I think this ministry is reallyhard.
It can be really difficult andif partners aren't on the same
page, it can be really, reallychallenging on a marriage and on
the family unit as a whole.
So I want us to talk todayabout what that journey has
(02:44):
looked like for us, what it waslike in the beginning when we
made the decision to get intofoster care, and how we have
gone through those challengesalong the way.
And I mean, we haven't overcomeeverything.
We are still working throughcertain parts of our parenting
styles and differences and thatsort of thing.
But I thought it would behelpful for us to just sit down
(03:07):
and chat about this.
So let's talk about from thevery beginning, because when I
first came to you and said, hey,I think we should get into
foster care, I think yourresponse was, uh, no.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I think that's probably exactly right, exactly
how I put it.
I think when you came to me andfirst asked the question about
foster care, a lot of fear roseup in me, like oh gosh, this is
going to be a messy thing thatwe're about to do, and I was
afraid of that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, but for me.
So I accepted that.
No, I really tried not to pushand nag and all the things, but
I kept having this naggingfeeling like this is something
that we are supposed to do.
So I think I came to you againand I said, hey, I really think
this, you know, this issomething that we should pray
(04:00):
about or whatever.
And I think you agreed to likego to an informational meeting
or something.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, that I did and it felt like that was a very
safe and easy thing to yield onwould be to yeah, I'll go listen
to a one hour class, and then Iknow that it led to the next
thing that maybe there was moreof an informational or a little
bit more training.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, so after the informational session there was
like a longer class or whateverthat you agreed to do and then
after the longer class youagreed to do the paperwork.
But I don't ever remember youactually saying yes to foster
care as a whole.
I mean you must have because wegot into it, but I don't
remember you making that actualdecision.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I got to where we had checked all the boxes, we
did all the things that wouldlead up to really having to come
to a final decision.
And I remember going out oftown on a Monday and you were
like we've got to decide this,yes or no, and I promised you
that on my way to the airportthat I would pray about it and
(05:12):
come up with a decision.
And that was true.
When I got in the car and washeading to the airport, I began
to be in the right posture, theright frame of mind and to be
ready to talk to God, to hearwhat he would say to me when I
asked him if it was his will forus to do foster care.
(05:34):
And I remember really not evenable to get the words out of my
mouth, and I just felt theimpression of the Spirit almost
laughing like you really need topray.
Is this my will for you to takecare of foster kids?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, because you know the Word right, and you
know what the Word says, and youknow what God tells His people
that we should be caring for theorphan and the widow, and so
you know, I'm sure that that'swhat's coming to mind as you're
calling out to him right, Askinghim if this is what he has for
(06:17):
us.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Exactly Looking at the verses about visiting
orphans and taking care ofwidows in their distress.
Visiting orphans and takingcare of widows in their distress
that verse specifically Ilooked at a little bit deeper
because when you just see visiton its surface, oh I can go do
that, I can go somewhere andspend an hour with a foster kid.
But that verse is much deeper,or that word is much deeper.
(06:42):
It means to be proactive and goseek them out and to get
involved in their lives and Ithink that brought a little bit
more conviction that we need toopen up our house to this.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, often I see in training that the Lord puts
partners together that areusually opposite, and a lot of
times I will see that there isone spouse that is more quick to
make those types of decisions,you know, to jump off of every
cliff that there is.
(07:15):
And then there's another spousethat tends to be more
conservative in theirdecision-making, more cautious
in what they are deciding to doand get involved in, and I mean,
I think that's true of us, butI think it's been a blessing for
us in that you kind of keep mefrom jumping off of the wrong
(07:37):
cliffs and I probably keep youfrom, you know, just sitting
still and not jumping off of anycliff.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
No, I agree.
I think there is a God thing inthat that we both are not the
same person, we don't have thesame personality, that there are
strengths and weaknesses toboth of our personalities and,
when put together, I think itallows us to really flesh out
what God is asking us to do.
(08:07):
There have been a lot of ideasthat you've come up with and
I've said no and felt verystrong that this is a no, this
is a no idea.
But the ones that you have,I've known early that God was in
it.
I've known early that God wasin it and I've been slower to
respond and you've consistentlylike you need to take action.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, the foster care was the one
thing that just kind of keptnagging inside of me that this
is something that we really needto do.
I would, though, if you arelistening and you and your
spouse are not on the same page,I would urge you to make sure
(08:53):
that you're on the same pagebefore you walk forward, though,
and if you're anything like meand you're the stronger
personality that wants to jumpoff of every cliff, it can be
really hard not to push and nagand kind of urge that other
spouse into the ministry thatyou are feeling called to, but I
(09:17):
think that if we hadn't havebeen on the same page, it would
have been really bad, don't you?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
If I would have felt forcedinto it by you being demanding
or overbearing.
I needed to hear from Godmyself and I think if that
person that hears that callingfirst, probably it's a good
advice to maybe just pray thatyour spouse is hearing the same
(09:44):
thing.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, I agree.
Plus, I think that when we'renot on the same page in this, if
one spouse feels coerced to it,I think really it's going to
hurt the marriage andpotentially hurt the child as
well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, that's good.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So okay, so you, finally, you pray about this you
make the decision that, yes,you want to move forward in this
.
I will tell you and this tendsto be how it goes I am super
quick to jump into things.
But then, once we actually gotinto foster care it was the
first week or two I completelypanicked because I jumped into
(10:26):
things really fast but didn'tnecessarily think through all
the pieces or whatever.
Right, and you moving a bitmore slowly and cautiously once
you had made that decision, youwere pretty steady.
I mean, you weren't reallyrocked by the first couple of
weeks.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, you weren't really rocked by the first
couple of weeks.
Yeah, I think that's how itworks out, at least for me.
When I finally said yes and I'min Knowing the first setback or
the first time that there'ssome difficulty, I remember that
first incident very clearly.
(11:03):
I don't remember what caused it, but I do remember us going to
bed that night and whatever itwas that happened with the child
.
They melted down or had atemper tantrum.
I know that you were like Ican't do this.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I can't do this.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I'm like, babe, it's going to be fine, we're fine,
you can do this.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, I think it just felt overwhelming in the
beginning for me and I just kindof.
I just kind of panicked, but Ido love that you were so steady
through that time period andthat season.
Well, you know, through ourfirst placement, I think our
first placement, through ourfirst placement, I think our
(11:46):
first placement the Lord was sogracious to us and our first
placement, in a lot of ways thecase was very rocky but the
placement itself was pretty easyfor us and I I think that was
the Lord's grace in, you know,allowing us to kind of walk
gently into foster care andadoption.
(12:09):
But when the kids went home, sowe had our first placement.
We had two boys and we had themfor two and a half years before
they went back, where weunified with their biological
family before they went back,were reunified with their
biological family, and I thinkwhen they went home, I think
that's where we started to seesome of our first challenges,
(12:31):
one of the first things beinghow do we grieve together as a
couple?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, those moments of when the kids went back to
their biological family, I meanthey were traumatic.
You hear a lot about trauma andyou know I'm married for the
first time.
I'm in my late 40s by the timewe're doing this.
(12:57):
I've never had children, hadchildren and here we are,
raising a baby for a couple ofyears and a four-year-old at
this point, two children thatwe've raised for a couple of
years and you're having to watchthem go back.
It felt like my own trauma.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, it was trauma and I feel like part of the way
that I dealt with it was Igrieved for a little while but
then I was ready to move forward.
I was ready to take a newplacement because I thought that
that would kind of help me inmy grief.
It would kind of give mepurpose that if we get back into
(13:40):
this, we get back into fostercare quickly and take another
placement, then that will kindof help me move on.
But that was not necessarilywhere you were and I feel I do
feel like this time I kind ofpushed a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, I agree, I was still hurting, much like the way
I make decisions.
I mean, it took a lot longer.
So I remember that grievingprocess lasting beyond how long
you were ready to move forwardand I wasn't.
I was very resistant to say,yep, let's turn the page, turn
the page.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, so we took a placement that ended up just
being for about two weeks, andthat was probably the best case
scenario because it allowed meto move forward a little bit.
But I think after thatplacement left, we had to get
back on the same track, right?
Like I, I had to give you somemore time to process.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, and one of the good things about that time,
that season in our life, therewere a lot of changes going on.
I mean, we had moved to anotherhouse, I was in between jobs,
there were a lot of things thatwere quickly changing from one
aspect to the other.
So I think that season was goodfor me to just let go and, okay
(15:04):
, I'm on this ride.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah.
So after that season, after wehad both had a chance to grieve,
we got the call for our fiveadopted kids.
So we get a place.
We get a call for an adoptiveplacement for a sibling group of
five and miraculously you saidyes and I thought, for sure,
(15:30):
that is a good thing, becauseyou were so quick to say yes to
that.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, I think during that season maybe there's just
so much going on and it wasanother major change that could
happen in our lives.
Like well, okay, but I thinkone of the good things about
that is we had spent some timearound a couple of the kids.
These weren't perfect strangersfor me, it wasn't just a
(16:04):
picture or individual childrenthat I'd never met.
We had been able to watch andspend some time around at least
two or three of them over thelast year.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, we had done respite for a couple of our
younger kids while they were ina previous foster home and while
we I mean one of the kids cameto stay with us while we still
had the boys.
So we had had relationship withthese kids.
So maybe that was helpful foryou in being more open-minded.
(16:30):
It didn't seem such like a leapof faith.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, there was a familiarity with them.
It didn't seem quite so scaryto think about taking five
children.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Maybe it should have been a little scarier if we had
known what we were getting into.
And there were some things,there were some challenges, like
you just said.
You know, in this season youhad kind of changed jobs and we
had changed houses and we werein a shorter term rental while
we looked for a permanent house.
But it was such a God thing, Ithink, in moving us into the
(17:06):
house that we ended up in andall the puzzle pieces kind of
coming together for us to beable to take these kids.
I felt like it was him kind ofnudging us into this situation,
don't you?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, we had looked at the house that we ended up
buying.
We had looked at that house atleast four or five months prior
to this and, for whatever reason, we kept looking in the
neighborhood at other houses,but this house just always
remained available and, inhindsight, what we needed for a
(17:44):
house with that many childrenwas almost the perfect layout.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It was the perfect setup, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And that house had it .
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, it was great.
So the kids move in.
And I think our next hurdle waswe were parenting lots of kids
with some pretty extreme traumaand so we had to kind of shift
gears in how we parented, Likewe really needed to be a team,
(18:13):
and in that season I don't thinkthat we were.
How would you do you rememberthat?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
A little bit, yeah, and I think you take it for
granted that, hey, my style morepermissive, not quite as
disciplined.
It's okay.
That style of parenting isgoing to work fine compared to a
lot of structure and morediscipline.
(18:41):
If there's a little bit of both, it's not going to cause any
issues and I was very wrongabout that.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, so.
So like you wanted to be thepermissive, fun parent, like
good cop, bad cop, kind of thing, and you were OK with me being
more of the disciplinarian andthat just wasn't working.
It wasn't working.
A disciplinarian, and that justwasn't working.
It wasn't working.
And I had some exposure to moretrauma-based parenting from some
(19:09):
different things.
I had done with differentfoster care groups in the past
and had started to implement alot of these things into the way
that I was parenting.
And a lot of that time also,you were traveling a lot for
work so I was parenting bymyself and so when I was at home
we were very structured.
We had a very strict routinethat we stuck to making sure
(19:33):
that the kids had what theyneeded and everything was
predictable.
They knew where to put theirshoes, they knew where to you
know, everything had a place andour routine was pretty much the
same every day.
But the way I remember it, youwould come home on the weekends
(19:53):
and it would be like willy nillyand I would get so frustrated
because I felt like it was all,like everything I had done
through the week just kind offell apart.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, I'd be gone for three or four days and I would
look forward to coming home andsetting my suitcase down and be
watch a bunch of kids comerunning daddy and get excited
that I was here and didn't thinkthat it would be that big of a
deal to be that personality likenot really thinking that
(20:26):
through that while you'recreating this structure, and
perhaps the way that I'm cominghome is going to cause issues
and it did.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, so what did you notice first, like, did you
notice the issues in the kids,or did you notice me struggling?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
First, I noticed you struggling how that was
impacting us first and foremostin our marriage, that we were
essentially parenting twodifferent styles that we were
essentially parenting twodifferent styles.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, so I think we had a sit-down talk and we
really started to work throughlike what our kids needed and
why they needed more consistency.
They needed us to be on thesame page and you do have a much
more laid-back, nurturing styleof parenting.
Naturally, I am a much morestructured person, naturally,
(21:28):
but when we started workingthrough this together, we
realized that we both had to beboth.
Like it couldn't be a good cop,bad cop thing.
Like we both had to be veryhigh structure and very high
nurture.
So we both needed to fill bothof those roles.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, as you started giving me books to read and I
started doing the research notas much as you, but started
doing my own research it wasevident that it's not enough to
have one person that is highstructure and then the other
spouse be high nurture.
That that's not equivalent toyou both having a high level of
(22:14):
structure and nurture togetherat the same time.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, because I think when we started to do that we
really started seeing somechanges.
I remember one time you wentinto one of the kids' rooms and
said something and they saidthat's just like mom would say,
it's like you're one person.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, that's victory.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I'm doing it, I'm doing it and that really is the
goal right, like we want to beon the same team and I think for
me.
I remember that time and I feltso supported.
I felt very loved and supportedbecause I didn't feel like I
(22:57):
was doing it alone anymore.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Not that I'm perfect.
I mean this is still somethingthat is alone anymore.
Not that I'm perfect.
I mean we, this is stillsomething that is.
It comes up from time to time.
I mean you really have to workat it, and at every moment.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Sure, and I think that part of the beauty is we
can hold each other accountablefor that.
Like I can hold you accountablewhen you kind of let structure
fall to the wayside and you canhold me accountable when I am
not giving enough nurture andconnection time and I'm not
being fun enough.
(23:30):
I think we both can hold eachother accountable in that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, I agree, and that's what is satisfying to the
marriage side of it.
The kids are getting thebenefit, but I think when we're
supporting each other, thatmakes our marriage stronger.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah.
So something happened last weekand I remember telling you like
I feel so supported right now.
I had kind of reacted in a waythat I didn't love and I hate
that, you guys, in a way that Ididn't love and I hate that you
(24:07):
guys.
I hate when I don't reactcalmly and regulated.
When I get dysregulated and Ikind of overreact to something,
I feel a lot of mom guilt and itwill take me out.
It will send me into anxiety,into depression.
I have a really hard time withit.
And so this one day Ioverreacted to something first
(24:31):
thing in the morning and Iremember you came into our room
and you were so kind to me andso gracious and you just said
you need to take a nap and youneed to just breathe.
It's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, I think the past rhythm that we would go
through is you would getfrustrated and, after losing,
not responding to a child theway that you know that you
should, you would also thenrespond to me in kind of the
same way and my rhythm would beto get defensive in this
(25:10):
particular morning, knowing,okay, be more empathetic, like I
knew that you had gone severaldays without sleep, very minimal
sleep, and you were exhaustedand you were tired and of course
, you're not going to respondwell when you've not had that
(25:30):
sleep.
So that felt like the firstthing to say is don't be so hard
on yourself, you need to take anap, you need some rest.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, and I think I mean that was I felt so loved
and supported.
But I also felt grace, like Ifelt like, okay, it's okay that
I messed up.
I took a nap, I got up, Iapologized to everybody, I
repaired with you, I repairedwith the kids and we moved on
(26:01):
and I think we teach that right,we teach parents that it's okay
to mess up and actually therepair, the mess up and the
repair your kids seeing you dothat is one of the most
important things that they cansee you do, because you're
modeling that none of us areperfect and you're modeling what
(26:22):
repairs look like.
But I think, personally, I havea really hard time when I mess
up.
I don't give myself grace, butyou providing that grace for me
gave me more empathy for myselfto be able to have grace for
myself.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Thanks, babe.
I'll try to do that from now on.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah Well, I mean, I think that we can help each
other in that, in making surethat we're each getting the
self-care that we need and thatwe're tagging each other out
when one of us hasn't slept orisn't at their best or is about,
you know, to be dysregulated,or whatever.
We can watch those signs in oneanother and kind of switch
(27:07):
places.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, it's certainly something that we're trying to
teach our kids, but it is kindof harder to apply that to each
other.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, sure, I mean, it's hard for us to be
self-regulated and it's alsohard for us to remember that
we're not just helping regulateour kids, that we are there to
support each other in ourregulation.
That is definitely somethingthat we are still working on.
So what would you say is yourtop tip for couples that are
(27:38):
really trying to be united and ateam as they parent kids that
have experienced trauma?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, I alluded to this earlier to one of your
other questions.
I think the best advice is forboth parents to be learners and
for both parents to seek outknowledge about foster care and
about trauma, to both becommitted to giving the kids the
(28:08):
very, very best that they can.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, that's good.
It doesn't work for just oneparent to do all the research
and just try to convey that tothe other parent.
I think you're right.
Both parents have to belearners in that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yes, 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, babe, thank you so much for being on the
podcast today.
I'm glad that you are here andwe were able to have this
conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Thanks, babe, for having me.
I enjoyed it immensely.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
It was so fun to have Bruce on the podcast today.
He really is such a blessing tome and to our family, and the
Lord has really worked in ourmarriage and in each of us
individually, to grow us in ourlove for Him and for each other,
and I love how he's been ableto use the ministry of foster
(29:02):
care to really build up andstrengthen our marriage over the
last couple of years.
If you enjoyed this episode,send it to a friend or maybe
even send it to your spouse and,as always, subscribe so you get
the podcast each and every week.
Let me pray for us as we closeout today.
Heavenly Father, thank you somuch for our marriages, lord.
(29:28):
Thank you that you place peopletogether that are different,
lord, that complement each other, that really can build each
other up.
Lord, I ask right now that youput a hedge of protection around
the marriages that are involvedin foster care and adoption.
Lord, these marriages need tobe strong.
Help foster care and adoptionbring couples together and not
(29:54):
tear them apart.
Lord, help each partner be ableto utilize their gifts for your
glory and help us walk inunison with each other and with
you.
Lord, you know that we arequick to serve our kids over and
over and over again, but helpus remember that we need to be
serving each other as well.
(30:15):
Help us to see each other'sneeds.
Help us discern when to speak,when to be quiet, when to hold
each other accountable and whento give grace.
Lord, we just ask that you helpus be good partners to one
another.
We love you.
We trust you, lord, in Jesus'name, amen.
(30:36):
Amen.
Hey friend, welcome back to the Foster Parent Well
podcast.
We're doing something specialthis summer because, let's be
real, summer is loud andschedules are wild.
So, in the spirit of keepingthings simple and soul-filling,
we're hitting rewind All summerlong.
I'll be sharing some of myfavorite episodes from the past,
conversations that encouragedme, challenged me and reminded
(00:22):
me that God is still workingeven when life feels messy.
If you're new here, it's theperfect time to jump in, and if
you've been around for a while,think of this like a little
refresher, like your spiritualiced coffee on a hot summer day.
So let's soak in some truth,lean into God's grace and keep
showing up for the hard and holywork that we've been called to.
(00:43):
Let's jump into this Rewindepisode.
Welcome to the Foster ParentWell podcast, where we have real
candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
(01:04):
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell, so let's jump in.
Welcome to the podcast.
(01:40):
I'm your host, Nicole T Barlow.
The last couple of weeks havebeen a little crazy, so you
might have noticed that therewasn't a podcast that came out
last week, and that's justbecause.
Well, life as foster parentsand adoptive parents, I am sure
that you understand.
Today we have a very specialguest on the podcast we are
(02:03):
talking to my husband, bruceBarlow.
We're talking about how spousescan work together and really be
team players as they parentkids with trauma.
Well, hey, babe, welcome to thepodcast.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Hi, babe, thanks for having me on.
I've been looking forward to it.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
So we're going to talk today about spouses really
working together as a team.
I think this ministry is reallyhard.
It can be really difficult andif partners aren't on the same
page, it can be really, reallychallenging on a marriage and on
the family unit as a whole.
So I want us to talk todayabout what that journey has
(02:44):
looked like for us, what it waslike in the beginning when we
made the decision to get intofoster care, and how we have
gone through those challengesalong the way.
And I mean, we haven't overcomeeverything.
We are still working throughcertain parts of our parenting
styles and differences and thatsort of thing.
But I thought it would behelpful for us to just sit down
(03:07):
and chat about this.
So let's talk about from thevery beginning, because when I
first came to you and said, hey,I think we should get into
foster care, I think yourresponse was, uh, no.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
I think that's probably exactly right, exactly
how I put it.
I think when you came to me andfirst asked the question about
foster care, a lot of fear roseup in me, like oh gosh, this is
going to be a messy thing thatwe're about to do, and I was
afraid of that.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
Yeah, but for me.
So I accepted that.
No, I really tried not to pushand nag and all the things, but
I kept having this naggingfeeling like this is something
that we are supposed to do.
So I think I came to you againand I said, hey, I really think
this, you know, this issomething that we should pray
(04:00):
about or whatever.
And I think you agreed to likego to an informational meeting
or something.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, that I did and it felt like that was a very
safe and easy thing to yield onwould be to yeah, I'll go listen
to a one hour class, and then Iknow that it led to the next
thing that maybe there was moreof an informational or a little
bit more training.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Yeah, so after the informational session there was
like a longer class or whateverthat you agreed to do and then
after the longer class youagreed to do the paperwork.
But I don't ever remember youactually saying yes to foster
care as a whole.
I mean you must have because wegot into it, but I don't
remember you making that actualdecision.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, I got to where we had checked all the boxes, we
did all the things that wouldlead up to really having to come
to a final decision.
And I remember going out oftown on a Monday and you were
like we've got to decide this,yes or no, and I promised you
that on my way to the airportthat I would pray about it and
(05:12):
come up with a decision.
And that was true.
When I got in the car and washeading to the airport, I began
to be in the right posture, theright frame of mind and to be
ready to talk to God, to hearwhat he would say to me when I
asked him if it was his will forus to do foster care.
(05:34):
And I remember really not evenable to get the words out of my
mouth, and I just felt theimpression of the Spirit almost
laughing like you really need topray.
Is this my will for you to takecare of foster kids?
Speaker 1 (05:53):
Yeah, because you know the Word right, and you
know what the Word says, and youknow what God tells His people
that we should be caring for theorphan and the widow, and so
you know, I'm sure that that'swhat's coming to mind as you're
calling out to him right, Askinghim if this is what he has for
(06:17):
us.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Exactly Looking at the verses about visiting
orphans and taking care ofwidows in their distress.
Visiting orphans and takingcare of widows in their distress
that verse specifically Ilooked at a little bit deeper
because when you just see visiton its surface, oh I can go do
that, I can go somewhere andspend an hour with a foster kid.
But that verse is much deeper,or that word is much deeper.
(06:42):
It means to be proactive and goseek them out and to get
involved in their lives and Ithink that brought a little bit
more conviction that we need toopen up our house to this.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Yeah, often I see in training that the Lord puts
partners together that areusually opposite, and a lot of
times I will see that there isone spouse that is more quick to
make those types of decisions,you know, to jump off of every
cliff that there is.
(07:15):
And then there's another spousethat tends to be more
conservative in theirdecision-making, more cautious
in what they are deciding to doand get involved in, and I mean,
I think that's true of us, butI think it's been a blessing for
us in that you kind of keep mefrom jumping off of the wrong
(07:37):
cliffs and I probably keep youfrom, you know, just sitting
still and not jumping off of anycliff.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
No, I agree.
I think there is a God thing inthat that we both are not the
same person, we don't have thesame personality, that there are
strengths and weaknesses toboth of our personalities and,
when put together, I think itallows us to really flesh out
what God is asking us to do.
(08:07):
There have been a lot of ideasthat you've come up with and
I've said no and felt verystrong that this is a no, this
is a no idea.
But the ones that you have,I've known early that God was in
it.
I've known early that God wasin it and I've been slower to
respond and you've consistentlylike you need to take action.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, the foster care was the one
thing that just kind of keptnagging inside of me that this
is something that we really needto do.
I would, though, if you arelistening and you and your
spouse are not on the same page,I would urge you to make sure
(08:53):
that you're on the same pagebefore you walk forward, though,
and if you're anything like meand you're the stronger
personality that wants to jumpoff of every cliff, it can be
really hard not to push and nagand kind of urge that other
spouse into the ministry thatyou are feeling called to, but I
(09:17):
think that if we hadn't havebeen on the same page, it would
have been really bad, don't you?
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Oh yeah, absolutely.
If I would have felt forcedinto it by you being demanding
or overbearing.
I needed to hear from Godmyself and I think if that
person that hears that callingfirst, probably it's a good
advice to maybe just pray thatyour spouse is hearing the same
(09:44):
thing.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Yeah, I agree.
Plus, I think that when we'renot on the same page in this, if
one spouse feels coerced to it,I think really it's going to
hurt the marriage andpotentially hurt the child as
well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yes, that's good.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
So okay, so you, finally, you pray about this you
make the decision that, yes,you want to move forward in this
.
I will tell you and this tendsto be how it goes I am super
quick to jump into things.
But then, once we actually gotinto foster care it was the
first week or two I completelypanicked because I jumped into
(10:26):
things really fast but didn'tnecessarily think through all
the pieces or whatever.
Right, and you moving a bitmore slowly and cautiously once
you had made that decision, youwere pretty steady.
I mean, you weren't reallyrocked by the first couple of
weeks.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, you weren't really rocked by the first
couple of weeks.
Yeah, I think that's how itworks out, at least for me.
When I finally said yes and I'min Knowing the first setback or
the first time that there'ssome difficulty, I remember that
first incident very clearly.
(11:03):
I don't remember what caused it, but I do remember us going to
bed that night and whatever itwas that happened with the child
.
They melted down or had atemper tantrum.
I know that you were like Ican't do this.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I can't do this.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
I'm like, babe, it's going to be fine, we're fine,
you can do this.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, I think it just felt overwhelming in the
beginning for me and I just kindof.
I just kind of panicked, but Ido love that you were so steady
through that time period andthat season.
Well, you know, through ourfirst placement, I think our
first placement, through ourfirst placement, I think our
(11:46):
first placement the Lord was sogracious to us and our first
placement, in a lot of ways thecase was very rocky but the
placement itself was pretty easyfor us and I I think that was
the Lord's grace in, you know,allowing us to kind of walk
gently into foster care andadoption.
(12:09):
But when the kids went home, sowe had our first placement.
We had two boys and we had themfor two and a half years before
they went back, where weunified with their biological
family before they went back,were reunified with their
biological family, and I thinkwhen they went home, I think
that's where we started to seesome of our first challenges,
(12:31):
one of the first things beinghow do we grieve together as a
couple?
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Yeah, those moments of when the kids went back to
their biological family, I meanthey were traumatic.
You hear a lot about trauma andyou know I'm married for the
first time.
I'm in my late 40s by the timewe're doing this.
(12:57):
I've never had children, hadchildren and here we are,
raising a baby for a couple ofyears and a four-year-old at
this point, two children thatwe've raised for a couple of
years and you're having to watchthem go back.
It felt like my own trauma.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
Well, it was trauma and I feel like part of the way
that I dealt with it was Igrieved for a little while but
then I was ready to move forward.
I was ready to take a newplacement because I thought that
that would kind of help me inmy grief.
It would kind of give mepurpose that if we get back into
(13:40):
this, we get back into fostercare quickly and take another
placement, then that will kindof help me move on.
But that was not necessarilywhere you were and I feel I do
feel like this time I kind ofpushed a little bit.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, I agree, I was still hurting, much like the way
I make decisions.
I mean, it took a lot longer.
So I remember that grievingprocess lasting beyond how long
you were ready to move forwardand I wasn't.
I was very resistant to say,yep, let's turn the page, turn
the page.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, so we took a placement that ended up just
being for about two weeks, andthat was probably the best case
scenario because it allowed meto move forward a little bit.
But I think after thatplacement left, we had to get
back on the same track, right?
Like I, I had to give you somemore time to process.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
Yeah, and one of the good things about that time,
that season in our life, therewere a lot of changes going on.
I mean, we had moved to anotherhouse, I was in between jobs,
there were a lot of things thatwere quickly changing from one
aspect to the other.
So I think that season was goodfor me to just let go and, okay
(15:04):
, I'm on this ride.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
Yeah.
So after that season, after wehad both had a chance to grieve,
we got the call for our fiveadopted kids.
So we get a place.
We get a call for an adoptiveplacement for a sibling group of
five and miraculously you saidyes and I thought, for sure,
(15:30):
that is a good thing, becauseyou were so quick to say yes to
that.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah, I think during that season maybe there's just
so much going on and it wasanother major change that could
happen in our lives.
Like well, okay, but I thinkone of the good things about
that is we had spent some timearound a couple of the kids.
These weren't perfect strangersfor me, it wasn't just a
(16:04):
picture or individual childrenthat I'd never met.
We had been able to watch andspend some time around at least
two or three of them over thelast year.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, we had done respite for a couple of our
younger kids while they were ina previous foster home and while
we I mean one of the kids cameto stay with us while we still
had the boys.
So we had had relationship withthese kids.
So maybe that was helpful foryou in being more open-minded.
(16:30):
It didn't seem such like a leapof faith.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Yeah, there was a familiarity with them.
It didn't seem quite so scaryto think about taking five
children.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Maybe it should have been a little scarier if we had
known what we were getting into.
And there were some things,there were some challenges, like
you just said.
You know, in this season youhad kind of changed jobs and we
had changed houses and we werein a shorter term rental while
we looked for a permanent house.
But it was such a God thing, Ithink, in moving us into the
(17:06):
house that we ended up in andall the puzzle pieces kind of
coming together for us to beable to take these kids.
I felt like it was him kind ofnudging us into this situation,
don't you?
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Yeah, we had looked at the house that we ended up
buying.
We had looked at that house atleast four or five months prior
to this and, for whatever reason, we kept looking in the
neighborhood at other houses,but this house just always
remained available and, inhindsight, what we needed for a
(17:44):
house with that many childrenwas almost the perfect layout.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
It was the perfect setup, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
And that house had it .
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yeah, it was great.
So the kids move in.
And I think our next hurdle waswe were parenting lots of kids
with some pretty extreme traumaand so we had to kind of shift
gears in how we parented, Likewe really needed to be a team,
(18:13):
and in that season I don't thinkthat we were.
How would you do you rememberthat?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
A little bit, yeah, and I think you take it for
granted that, hey, my style morepermissive, not quite as
disciplined.
It's okay.
That style of parenting isgoing to work fine compared to a
lot of structure and morediscipline.
(18:41):
If there's a little bit of both, it's not going to cause any
issues and I was very wrongabout that.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, so.
So like you wanted to be thepermissive, fun parent, like
good cop, bad cop, kind of thing, and you were OK with me being
more of the disciplinarian andthat just wasn't working.
It wasn't working.
A disciplinarian, and that justwasn't working.
It wasn't working.
And I had some exposure to moretrauma-based parenting from some
(19:09):
different things.
I had done with differentfoster care groups in the past
and had started to implement alot of these things into the way
that I was parenting.
And a lot of that time also,you were traveling a lot for
work so I was parenting bymyself and so when I was at home
we were very structured.
We had a very strict routinethat we stuck to making sure
(19:33):
that the kids had what theyneeded and everything was
predictable.
They knew where to put theirshoes, they knew where to you
know, everything had a place andour routine was pretty much the
same every day.
But the way I remember it, youwould come home on the weekends
(19:53):
and it would be like willy nillyand I would get so frustrated
because I felt like it was all,like everything I had done
through the week just kind offell apart.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Yeah, I'd be gone for three or four days and I would
look forward to coming home andsetting my suitcase down and be
watch a bunch of kids comerunning daddy and get excited
that I was here and didn't thinkthat it would be that big of a
deal to be that personality likenot really thinking that
(20:26):
through that while you'recreating this structure, and
perhaps the way that I'm cominghome is going to cause issues
and it did.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Yeah, so what did you notice first, like, did you
notice the issues in the kids,or did you notice me struggling?
Speaker 2 (20:47):
First, I noticed you struggling how that was
impacting us first and foremostin our marriage, that we were
essentially parenting twodifferent styles that we were
essentially parenting twodifferent styles.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, so I think we had a sit-down talk and we
really started to work throughlike what our kids needed and
why they needed more consistency.
They needed us to be on thesame page and you do have a much
more laid-back, nurturing styleof parenting.
Naturally, I am a much morestructured person, naturally,
(21:28):
but when we started workingthrough this together, we
realized that we both had to beboth.
Like it couldn't be a good cop,bad cop thing.
Like we both had to be veryhigh structure and very high
nurture.
So we both needed to fill bothof those roles.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yeah, as you started giving me books to read and I
started doing the research notas much as you, but started
doing my own research it wasevident that it's not enough to
have one person that is highstructure and then the other
spouse be high nurture.
That that's not equivalent toyou both having a high level of
(22:14):
structure and nurture togetherat the same time.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, because I think when we started to do that we
really started seeing somechanges.
I remember one time you wentinto one of the kids' rooms and
said something and they saidthat's just like mom would say,
it's like you're one person.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, that's victory.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I'm doing it, I'm doing it and that really is the
goal right, like we want to beon the same team and I think for
me.
I remember that time and I feltso supported.
I felt very loved and supportedbecause I didn't feel like I
(22:57):
was doing it alone anymore.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Not that I'm perfect.
I mean this is still somethingthat is alone anymore.
Not that I'm perfect.
I mean we, this is stillsomething that is.
It comes up from time to time.
I mean you really have to workat it, and at every moment.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
Sure, and I think that part of the beauty is we
can hold each other accountablefor that.
Like I can hold you accountablewhen you kind of let structure
fall to the wayside and you canhold me accountable when I am
not giving enough nurture andconnection time and I'm not
being fun enough.
(23:30):
I think we both can hold eachother accountable in that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah, I agree, and that's what is satisfying to the
marriage side of it.
The kids are getting thebenefit, but I think when we're
supporting each other, thatmakes our marriage stronger.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Yeah.
So something happened last weekand I remember telling you like
I feel so supported right now.
I had kind of reacted in a waythat I didn't love and I hate
that, you guys, in a way that Ididn't love and I hate that you
(24:07):
guys.
I hate when I don't reactcalmly and regulated.
When I get dysregulated and Ikind of overreact to something,
I feel a lot of mom guilt and itwill take me out.
It will send me into anxiety,into depression.
I have a really hard time withit.
And so this one day Ioverreacted to something first
(24:31):
thing in the morning and Iremember you came into our room
and you were so kind to me andso gracious and you just said
you need to take a nap and youneed to just breathe.
It's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, I think the past rhythm that we would go
through is you would getfrustrated and, after losing,
not responding to a child theway that you know that you
should, you would also thenrespond to me in kind of the
same way and my rhythm would beto get defensive in this
(25:10):
particular morning, knowing,okay, be more empathetic, like I
knew that you had gone severaldays without sleep, very minimal
sleep, and you were exhaustedand you were tired and of course
, you're not going to respondwell when you've not had that
(25:30):
sleep.
So that felt like the firstthing to say is don't be so hard
on yourself, you need to take anap, you need some rest.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, and I think I mean that was I felt so loved
and supported.
But I also felt grace, like Ifelt like, okay, it's okay that
I messed up.
I took a nap, I got up, Iapologized to everybody, I
repaired with you, I repairedwith the kids and we moved on
(26:01):
and I think we teach that right,we teach parents that it's okay
to mess up and actually therepair, the mess up and the
repair your kids seeing you dothat is one of the most
important things that they cansee you do, because you're
modeling that none of us areperfect and you're modeling what
(26:22):
repairs look like.
But I think, personally, I havea really hard time when I mess
up.
I don't give myself grace, butyou providing that grace for me
gave me more empathy for myselfto be able to have grace for
myself.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Thanks, babe.
I'll try to do that from now on.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Yeah Well, I mean, I think that we can help each
other in that, in making surethat we're each getting the
self-care that we need and thatwe're tagging each other out
when one of us hasn't slept orisn't at their best or is about,
you know, to be dysregulated,or whatever.
We can watch those signs in oneanother and kind of switch
(27:07):
places.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, it's certainly something that we're trying to
teach our kids, but it is kindof harder to apply that to each
other.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, sure, I mean, it's hard for us to be
self-regulated and it's alsohard for us to remember that
we're not just helping regulateour kids, that we are there to
support each other in ourregulation.
That is definitely somethingthat we are still working on.
So what would you say is yourtop tip for couples that are
(27:38):
really trying to be united and ateam as they parent kids that
have experienced trauma?
Speaker 2 (27:47):
Yeah, I alluded to this earlier to one of your
other questions.
I think the best advice is forboth parents to be learners and
for both parents to seek outknowledge about foster care and
about trauma, to both becommitted to giving the kids the
(28:08):
very, very best that they can.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yeah, that's good.
It doesn't work for just oneparent to do all the research
and just try to convey that tothe other parent.
I think you're right.
Both parents have to belearners in that.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yes, 100%.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Well, babe, thank you so much for being on the
podcast today.
I'm glad that you are here andwe were able to have this
conversation.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Thanks, babe, for having me.
I enjoyed it immensely.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
It was so fun to have Bruce on the podcast today.
He really is such a blessing tome and to our family, and the
Lord has really worked in ourmarriage and in each of us
individually, to grow us in ourlove for Him and for each other,
and I love how he's been ableto use the ministry of foster
(29:02):
care to really build up andstrengthen our marriage over the
last couple of years.
If you enjoyed this episode,send it to a friend or maybe
even send it to your spouse and,as always, subscribe so you get
the podcast each and every week.
Let me pray for us as we closeout today.
Heavenly Father, thank you somuch for our marriages, lord.
(29:28):
Thank you that you place peopletogether that are different,
lord, that complement each other, that really can build each
other up.
Lord, I ask right now that youput a hedge of protection around
the marriages that are involvedin foster care and adoption.
Lord, these marriages need tobe strong.
Help foster care and adoptionbring couples together and not
(29:54):
tear them apart.
Lord, help each partner be ableto utilize their gifts for your
glory and help us walk inunison with each other and with
you.
Lord, you know that we arequick to serve our kids over and
over and over again, but helpus remember that we need to be
serving each other as well.
(30:15):
Help us to see each other'sneeds.
Help us discern when to speak,when to be quiet, when to hold
each other accountable and whento give grace.
Lord, we just ask that you helpus be good partners to one
another.
We love you.
We trust you, lord, in Jesus'name, amen.
(30:36):
Amen.
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