September 10, 2025 • 38 mins
Ever feel like your heart is being pulled in a thousand directions as a foster parent? Like you're supposed to be everything to everyone while somehow finding time to breathe? You're not alone.
In this soul-nourishing conversation, Jessica Matheson (author of "No Matter When I Go") shares her foster care journey and the freedom she found when she stopped trying to be her children's savior. With refreshing candor, she reflects on starting as a foster parent before having biological children, eventually adopting her teenage daughter, and learning that God's timeline rarely matches our own.
"Only the Spirit of God can bring healing to their lives," Jessica reminds us. "We can be an agent through which He works, but it's not our job to fix or heal." This perspective shift might be exactly what you need to hear today if you're drowning under the weight of unrealistic expectations.
We explore practical ways to help children recognize God's hand in their stories without dismissing their trauma. Jessica shares wisdom about going slow, prioritizing relationship over behavior modification, and showing kids what healthy family life looks like—sometimes that's enough.
Whether you're considering fostering, in the thick of placement challenges, or supporting someone who is, this episode offers gentle permission to release perfection and embrace obedience instead. God doesn't need us to overhaul our children's lives overnight; He simply asks us to be faithful with what's before us today.
Ready to see your foster parenting journey through fresh eyes? Listen now, and remember: you don't have to do it all. You just have to follow where He leads.
You can get to know her at www.jessicanmathisen.com, on Instagram @jessicanmathisen, and through her podcast, The Fullness of Joy.
I'd love to hear from you! Send me a text!
Connect with me on Instagram: @Fosterparentwell
@nicoletbarlow https://www.instagram.com/nicoletbarlow/
Website: https://nicoletbarlow.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:32):
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell, so let's jump in.
Hey friends, welcome back tothe Foster Parent Well podcast.
(00:57):
Can I ask you a heart levelquestion today?
Have you ever felt like yourpriorities are constantly being
pulled in a hundred differentdirections, like you want to be
present for your kids, serveyour community, you want to pour
into your marriage and still,somehow we still need to be
responsible for how we care forour own heart and health, but
(01:20):
there just aren't enough hoursin the day.
That's exactly where the Lordhas been working on me lately.
He's been gently reminding methat not everything can be first
In this season.
He keeps calling me to lay downmy need to do it all and
instead to keep Him at thecenter, trusting that when my
(01:42):
priorities are aligned with His,he'll give me the strength and
wisdom and peace that I need toshow up well for my family and
for the families that I serve.
And that leads perfectly intotoday's conversation.
I'm so excited to sit down withmy friend, jessica Matheson, as
we talk about what it lookslike to see the hand of God in
(02:05):
our stories and in our kids'stories.
We both know that life doesn'talways unfold the way that we
expect, but when we take time tolook back, we can see His
fingerprints all over thejourney and we can teach our
kids to do the same.
Jessica is the author of noMatter when I Go.
(02:27):
She is a former elementaryschool teacher whose passion it
is to communicate God's love toothers through words and
relationship.
As a writer, speaker andpodcaster, her greatest joy is
helping women love God's word.
She lives just outside ofAtlanta, Georgia, and is a wife
(02:48):
and mama to three kids throughbiology and adoption, so I'm so
excited for her to be here today.
Let's jump into thisconversation.
Well, welcome Jessica.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
yourself and how did you getinto the foster care and
adoption world?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so my name is Jessica Matheson.
I'm really excited to get tochat with you today, and I
actually my husband and Ipursued foster care before we
had biological kids.
We talked about adoption on ourvery first date.
Oh my gosh, I know, isn't thatcrazy.
We had met online, so we hadlike been talking for a little
while and then it was like Iguess we're just going there,
(03:29):
you know just talking aboutdreams and things, um, and
foster care was not somethingthat was on our radar until we
walked through a little um,rough patch of infertility and
you know, we were just kind oflike, what do we do?
We've got this empty house,what do we do?
And some friends of ours toldus about a conference that was
at our church and it was forfoster and adoptive parents but
(03:52):
you could also go just to learnand so we attended.
It was held by a local ministrythere and hosted by our church
at the time and we both leftthat day feeling like we were
called to foster.
We had no idea of the crisis,kind of in our backyard and I've
been an elementary schoolteacher and my husband also had
worked in the school system withthe Head Start, pre-k and just
(04:15):
seeing all kinds of differentfamilies and thinking like, oh,
my goodness, this is literallyright in our backyard and we
could be serving and helping ourcommunity in this way, in a way
that also is just, you know, amissional thing that we want to
do to love the Lord.
So that's kind of how we gotinto it.
That's our story.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I love that.
I love when people say I mean,because I hear these stories all
the time of like people thattalk about adoption and foster
care, like on their first dates,and I'm like, oh my gosh, I
love that people just kind ofthrow it out there Listen, this
is what's on my heart, this iskind of where I want to go with
that, and I just think that'samazing that y'all could have
(04:51):
those conversations early on.
Well, what has your journeybeen like?
How has it been through theyears?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, so, like I said , we started off before we had
bio kids and we actually had.
You know, the whole processtakes so long to be licensed and
all of that.
You know that's like a wholething.
And so from the time of ussaying like we want to be foster
parents to becoming fosterparents was like a whole year.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And then, but during that time, you know, we prayed
and we were serving on a team, acare team for another foster
family, and so we were gettingto kind of see this thing
happening in real life before usand it was.
There was like a culture offoster care and adoption that
was being cultivated at ourformer church and so it wasn't
like this totally abnormal thing.
Necessarily we had friends whowere doing the same thing thing.
(05:45):
Necessarily we had friends whowere doing the same thing, and
so that I think that reallyhelped us to be able to step
into it and say like, okay, likewe at least know people that
have done this before and couldtalk to them.
So we had our first placementwas a sibling group of three,
and so zero to three overnight,just completely like what you
know what has happened.
They were 10, eight and sevenand they were with us for a
summer and then we took sometime off and in that time it had
(06:10):
to have been literally rightafter they left I got pregnant
with our son and when I was sixmonths pregnant with him, we
received another placement whowas 15 years old at the time,
and she actually is our foreverdaughter.
She's with us now.
Still Well, doesn't live withus, but she's 22 now.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
And then we, about a year after that, from the summer
of 2020 to 2021, so summer tosummer for about a year we had a
tween girl live with us andduring that time I got pregnant
with our second bio child, who'snow almost four.
And then since then we've movedand, you know, had a lot of
(06:47):
changes, and so we've closed ourhome for the time being but are
in the midst of kind of tryingto help revitalize the foster
and adoptive ministry at ourchurch and walk alongside people
who are doing this for thefirst time and I'm just saying
like, hey, we get it, you're notalone, creating that safe space
and trying to create kind ofthat care model.
And so that's kind of wherewe're at right now and just
(07:08):
praying through what does thislook for us in the future?
Look like for us in the future,lord?
Like where do you have us inthis, in this whole sphere?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, I mean we've been a journey.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It's been a journey, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, well, I mean we've, but what does that look
like?
Like how do we invest in thefoster care community?
Because I think once you'repulled into it and your passion
and your heart grows for thisministry, you can't leave.
You have to be doing something,you have to do something, and
(07:41):
so it's kind of walking with theLord at any given moment and
say, hey, what does this looklike in this season?
For us If it's not a seasonwhere we can foster or where
we're meant to foster.
How do we do this?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So well.
You recently wrote a book, achildren's book, about foster
care right.
Yes, so, tell us a little bitabout that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
So it's been really interestingbecause up until this point I
had self-published.
I wrote several devotionals andone of them in particular was a
prayer guide for foster parents.
So my heart was always there toserve the foster care community
through my writing, because Ilove to write and my husband had
actually told me for a longtime you should write a kid's
book.
(08:23):
And I'm thinking at this pointI'm self-publishing, that is way
too hard to do, I don't have astory, I don't know how to find
an illustrator, I'm like that isjust too much, like that'll be
another time down the road,whatever.
And but I still did have thisdream of traditionally
publishing, working with apublisher, all the things.
And so the Lord honestlydropped this opportunity in my
(08:46):
lap where my publisher, theeditor, she, found an essay that
I had written online and it hadsome themes of foster care
woven into it.
It was kind of about myunorthodox journey to motherhood
, because becoming a fosterparent before becoming a bio mom
.
And she reached out becausethey had been looking for an
author to partner with them on aresource for kids and they
(09:07):
wanted specifically to have aresource for kids in foster care
.
And so she was like would yoube willing to do this?
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
I'm like, yes, this is likeperfect.
I couldn't have dreamed this upmyself.
And so that was how it all cameabout.
In the story it's called noMatter when I Go, and the Lord
just really gave me this storybecause of the experiences that
(09:28):
we had.
The Lord just really gave methis story because of the
experiences that we had.
It follows a little girl who'splaced in foster care, but along
the way she has severaldifferent adults and, you know,
safe people in her life who arerepeating these encouraging
words over her.
And that came from ourexperiences we had.
Like I said, we had the siblinggroup and then we had the two
different girls and in each oneof their circumstances and I
(09:50):
think honestly, I feel like thiscould be unique to us, but
maybe it's not but in each oneof those situations we saw that
we were not the first Christiansthat they had met.
There were other people intheir lives who were looking out
for them, who had their eyes onthem, who were praying for them
, advocating for them.
And you know, I think it's veryeasy within the foster care and
(10:13):
adoption world to kind of likepeople whether you do it
yourself or whether people do itto you to kind of like be on a
pedestal of like oh my goodness,I can never do what you do.
You're so amazing, whatever andthat's just not the case Like
we, obviously not the Savior.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Jesus is the Savior.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And so looking from that lens and seeing like, oh my
goodness, you were working intheir lives before they got to
us.
You already had people who werepraying for them and speaking
truth into their lives and wejust get to be a small part.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And so the story really evolved from that, like
we just get to be a small part,and so the story really evolved
from that, from our experiences.
Wow, what a great opportunityto be able to do a couple of
things to help show kids supportas they are in care and really
show how God's hand is there allalong.
But also to level that playingfield a little bit and to say
(11:10):
hey, as foster parents, and toshow kids the foster parents are
not magically going to save youand make something miraculous
happen.
Everything's going to be great,yeah, well, I mean, a couple of
my kids thought that when theygot adopted, because I think
sometimes that is the narrativejust a culture Right, and
(11:31):
everything's rainbows andbutterflies, because I have this
forever family and it's allbeautiful and yeah.
Yes, and so then, once adoptionactually happened and they
didn't feel any different,You're like well, I'm just still
with you.
I'm just normal.
Yeah, I think you know.
I think it does a lot of things.
I think it sets our kids up forfailure and in their
(11:53):
expectations.
I think it sets the community'sexpectations of us up wrong,
and I think I know for me.
We adopted a big sibling group,a sibling group of five, and so
there were several news storiesabout our family, ok, yeah.
When we went through andeverybody was like oh my gosh,
you're so wonderful, you're sowhatever.
(12:13):
And for me it was really reallyhard, because then it felt like
I had to live up to that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And that I couldn't mess up.
I couldn't fail.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I had to live up to this expectation that I was this
great parent.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, you're incredible yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
You've just done this amazing thing, so keep it going
and people would tell me howincredible of a parent that I
was.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
They didn't know me.
You don't even see me parent,you don't even know when I'm
like put your shirt on.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
That's right.
That's right.
I mean, they didn't know.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, they just have this idealized thing because
they've seen from afar like, ohmy goodness, and you're like.
You have no idea.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You have no idea, I am crumbling over here.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I'm literally drowning, uh-huh Right.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And so I think to level that playing field all in
one swoop right, you're puttingout this resource for kids, but
I think it also gives a lot ofgrace to parents that you don't
have to be something that youwere never called to be.
Right, yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And honestly I feel like that's something my husband
and I are still learningthrough parenting and just
saying, okay, you know what?
Because for us, when we havethis child in our home who's
eight, 10, 15, 12, whatever,you're kind of thinking like if
it's a long-term placement,you're like, well, we've got to
just like instill so much intothem, we've got to make up for
(13:37):
all the years that have beenlost and da da da.
But like that is not our joband the weight of the world is
not on our shoulders.
I think of that scripture.
I think I want to say it's inLamentations, but it's like it
talks about how God restores theyears that the locusts have
eaten.
Like that's not our job torestore the years the locusts
have eaten.
Like the kids have been throughhell and back, but it's not our
job to then make up for allthat lost time.
(14:00):
Like only the spirit of God canbring that sort of healing in
their lives and we can be anagent through which he works.
But it's not our job or ourresponsibility to fix or heal.
It's just our job to love andcare and to walk with them and
to show them, support andencourage them and have healthy
relationships.
But I think that is somethingthat my husband and I have
(14:20):
struggled with, because we feellike, like you're saying, we
have to live up to a certainexpectation or a certain
standard that we have as parents, or you know, or even like with
our kids, of like, well, wewant them to do X, Y and Z,
because this is you know, andwe've just kind of begun to
distinguish between expectationsversus standards, like for us,
(14:42):
like as believers, like ofcourse we're, like there are
certain standards that we feellike you know that's a good
thing to have, like we're notgoing to lie, we're not.
There are certain standards thatwe feel like you know that's a
good thing to have, like we'renot going to lie, we're not
going to, you know, just, youknow all the things.
But as far as expectations go,like we have to let those go and
trust that God is shaping andmolding our kids bio or adopted
or foster, like he's molding andshaping their lives and we
(15:10):
can't enforce our expectationsof what we think they should be
doing or what they should belike on them it's just not fair
and it's just a recipe fordisaster.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Ask me how I know For real.
Well, I think all of us, asfoster and adoptive parents, we
go through that season some ofus longer than others.
I'm just speaking for myselfhere, yeah when we do put that
expectation on ourselves,because culture almost puts that
expectation on us and we canget sucked into it very, very
(15:38):
quickly and you're never goingto live up to that.
I think there was at one pointone of my lowest points.
Somebody gave me the book NoneLike Him by Jen Wilkin, and it
talks about the attributes ofGod that are not true of us.
So she has another book thattalks about we are made in his
(16:02):
image.
I think it's called.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
In.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
His Image where it's all the attributes of God that
we do have.
But then she has an oppositebook all the attributes of God
that we don't have.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, that's big.
You know it's funny.
I think that's sitting on myshelf and I haven't read it.
Listen, you need to read it.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Every foster parent needs to read it, because it was
so freeing for me going.
This isn't my job.
This is not my job.
This is not my job.
This is his job.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
This is not my job, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
The whole way through reading that book.
I'm just going this is not myjob.
This is not my job.
In fact, I probably need toread it every year.
Yeah, but I think that can beso, so difficult to step into
these big things and kind ofrelease it to the Lord and to
teach our kids to do walkingalongside of parents.
Now, in your church community,when they're starting out, how
(17:11):
do you help them start with adifferent frame of mind so that
they're not walking in that heromentality, even unknowingly.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
For sure.
Well, it's interesting becauseI remember with our first
placement, you know, we had themover the summer and then a
little bit into the school yearand we're kind of like they need
to do this and do that and dothat with school and all this
kind of stuff and we're tryingto get them to eat veggies.
Oh, like you know, workingmistakes Right and our one of
the pastors on staff at ourchurch at the time he had also
(17:42):
fostered and we were like kindof talking to him about, well,
we feel like they needed thisand they needed that, and he was
like, honestly, I don't reallyfeel like you need to be doing
all that.
Like just like, keep them alive.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And we were like what ?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Like I mean, no, that is not how you parent I mean,
again, had never been parents atall no, we're just like no,
like we have to do more thanthat.
And then I remember also, likein a therapy session, like
talking with a therapist andjust saying you know, kind of
talking about where the kids hadbeen and all that we were
trying to do, and I was like Imean, but you know, we're doing
the best we can, it's betterthan nothing, or you know it's
(18:20):
better than what they had before, you know whatever.
And not like, oh, we're better,but you know what I'm saying
the situation is a healthiersituation.
And she was like I feel likeyou're really dumbing down,
playing down all that you aredoing, because you're showing
them what a healthy family lookslike, you're showing them what
a healthy marriage looks like.
(18:41):
That just in itself is huge.
And so those two things, when Ithink about that, I think, okay
, our pastor was telling us likelisten, you don't know how long
they're going to be with you,just do the best you can with
what you got and don't feel likeyou have to do everything.
That was huge.
But then my counselor,therapist, saying you know what,
(19:05):
just you being you as a witnessand that's huge.
They're going to get so muchjust from seeing you live your
life.
That also is huge too.
So I think, in talking with newfoster parents, what I would
like to say is just do the bestyou can with what you've got and
take one day at a time, becauseyou don't know if they are
(19:28):
going to be with you two weeks,two months, two years, and you
know if it does turn into like along-term placement, like, of
course, like keep going deeper,keep going deeper, keep going
deeper, but don't set out onlike day one or even month,
month one, month two to try andbe overhauling their entire
lives and what we're doing?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
is we're doing, that we're?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
doing that you know, just like, do the best you can
and keep it simple.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think from their perspective
too, if we try to overhaul theirwhole life right, then we're
we're setting them up forfailure.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, they're like this is awful.
What are you doing to me?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right, I talked to very random, but I talked to a
girl in Walmart one time and shehad just been reunified with
her mom.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And she told me you know, I don't talk to anybody
like I'm.
I'm that shopper that gets in,gets out.
I don't stop and chit chat.
But for some reason I juststarted talking to this girl and
come to find out she was infoster care, and so I asked her
how her experience in fostercare was, because I wanted to
know.
And she said it was horriblebecause she had come out of a
(20:43):
situation where she was allowedto do all kinds of stuff right.
Yeah, just whatever, it was kindof free reign and she was doing
a lot of things that sheprobably shouldn't be doing,
right, but she kind of had freereign.
And then she comes into thisfoster home a Christian foster
home where she had to change theway that she dressed.
She had to change the way thatshe talked, she had to change
(21:05):
the way that she presentedherself.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
She had to change the way that she talked.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
She had to change the way that she presented herself.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
She had to change the way that she ate.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
She had to change all of these activities that she
was used to phone, tv, internet,all of that kind of stuff was
taken away from her, not tomention some of the bad habits
that she was doing before weretaken away from her right.
So her whole life wasoverhauled in an instant,
because the foster family wasexpecting that she automatically
(21:33):
conformed to their standardsand all of their things.
And for her it was a shock toher system.
It was a completely differentculture.
And so I think, sometimes, whenwe set our expectations on those
material things, on thoseoutward things, kind of things,
(21:54):
or even you were saying goodthings like eating veggies, but
when we overhaul you know, whenwe do an overhaul that fast for
a child, because ourexpectations are set on one
thing and we try to do too muchlike you were saying I think it
(22:15):
can be really really hard on thechild that's going through that
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, and I feel like if I could go back and tell
myself something, it would belike just go slow and trust
God's timing, because I thinkthere's a lot of decisions that
we can make out of fear and it'sjust yeah.
So sometimes I don't like thisword, but it really is.
It's so nuanced and you justreally have to trust God in each
(22:44):
situation to give you thewisdom you need.
And I think if I could go backand tell myself I'd be like girl
, you got to calm down.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Well, I actually had somebody tell me that.
I mean, so we had beenfostering for a while when we
got placement of our kids and Ihad a parent coach because
things were so tough.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I was not doing well during that season.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean to go from one to six overnight was like it
was not easy and my kids had hada lot of placements and a lot
of trauma even in care, and soit was just a whole, whole
ordeal and my parent coach toldme I was like the lying, like I
just can't get yeah past thelying like it was all day every
(23:27):
day, every child, all the things, yeah, and she said, well, she
goes.
If you don't want them to lie,stop asking them them.
And I'm like, wait what?
And she goes.
I got to be honest that this isnot high on your priority list
right now, that right now you'retrying to keep everybody alive
because safety like keeping ourkids from hurting one another
(23:52):
and hurting themselves and allthe things in those early days
was a really big deal, and soshe was right.
She was like you're looking atthe wrong things, this isn't
important right now.
Did we eventually get to theline?
Yes, once their brain settlesand all the things.
But at the beginning it didn'tmatter that didn't matter, and
(24:12):
to have somebody from theoutside say that I was like, oh
wait, I mean, are you sure?
I mean I don't know.
I mean because I think,especially as Christians, we
have these standards of livingfor our own lives.
Right, we're not going to lie,we're not going to cheat, we're
not going to steal, we're notgoing to do all of these things,
(24:33):
we're not going to useprofanity.
And so when kids come in andall of a sudden they have these
habits from this culture thatthey came from, that doesn't
match up to how we have set upour home or structure or homes
or whatever.
it can be a shock to our systemand we're like no, no, no, this
is wrong, I'm not having this,this has got to go, yeah, and so
(24:54):
we try to overhaul everythingtoo quickly and try to jump in
too fast.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Kind of like you were saying that.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
You know it's OK to chill out for a little while,
but I think also, in addition toour own standards and
expectations, I think, at leastfor me, I know I tend to care
about what other people oh wellother people view my family.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I'm like no no, no, youcan't cuss in church.
Yeah, like you.
Excuse me, you're a reflectionof this home.
Right, right right?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
No, no, no.
And so you know that becomes anissue.
That becomes an issue too.
So, so what does?
What does success look like, Doyou think?
For, as parents are steppinginto this journey right, Like
new parents as they're steppingin?
(25:46):
What does it look like?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Honestly, I would say , obedience, cause I know, for
me, like, sometimes there arethings that I know that I should
do, or like I feel this nudge,but then I'm like, but like you,
I'm like I'm focusing onsomething else because I'm like,
well, this seems more pressingand more important than this
other thing that, like, maybewould be good too.
So, honestly, yeah, likeobedience and just like being in
(26:11):
tune with, like the spirit ofGod of like this is what I've
laid before you and this is whatI want you to do, and being
okay with, like prioritizing hiswill above your own, which is
very difficult.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, and so you're talking about your obedience.
Yeah, not his obedience, yourobedience.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean it's.
I think there's just so manyinstances where it's like I felt
this nudge to do something andI was like, oh, and then
something came around and I waslike, oh well, if I had done
this you know like what like,what I, what I felt like maybe
you told me, you know, and soit's like oh gosh, when will I
learn?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yes, yeah, yeah, that can be.
That can be really reallydifficult, you know, to I mean,
it's difficult for our kids toobey, but it's also difficult
for us to obey.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But it's a way that we show our trust in his plan
instead of our own, but I'm like, well, no, this makes more
sense, so obviously my way'sbetter, and that's never true.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Literally never true For real.
I mean, it's like you havesomebody that understands the
future, that's guiding your way.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I know, I know you would think that I would just
dive right in.
I know.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I know, but so how can we lean into that?
How do we lean into God more onthis journey and also help our
kids understand how to lean intoHim on this journey?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, that's really good.
I think a lot of it comes downto do we even know what he says?
And if we don't know the BibleI mean, obviously this isn't
Bible days and we didn't go toHebrew school and learn the
Torah and have it memorized,memorized but like we have the
written word, which back in theBible times they didn't have
that, and so, like we have thewritten word, we have the full
(28:02):
counsel of God.
Like are we in it?
Like do we actually even knowwhat he says?
Because, like that's going tohelp us check.
Like well, I'm feeling likemaybe you're telling me this,
but like is that?
I don't know?
Like we can check it and see,like well, is that biblical?
Like cause, if it's like not,if it's unbiblical, obviously
he's not telling you to do it.
But if it's biblical, but toyou it just doesn't make sense
(28:22):
that you don't want to he'sprobably telling you to do that,
like you know, like if it'slike if it's like go, you know,
give your daughter a hug, like,but you don't really feel like
it, like you probably just needto give her a hug, you know?
I mean it's like simple thingslike that though.
Really, yeah, you know, likejust those touches and those
connection points and thingswhere it's like he's telling you
(28:45):
exactly what to do.
Are you listening?
And you know, for our kids, Ithink it would be just helping
them honestly on their own levelto understand God's word too.
So whatever that looks like forthe age and stage.
But just like when you'rehaving conversations and they're
confused and they're asking youquestions and different things,
like pointing them back toGod's word and saying like, okay
(29:07):
, like, what does God say aboutthis?
And I know, sometimes with kids, you know, I had a friend who
once told me that he was tryingto talk to his daughter and she
was just like, could we not makethis a sermon?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Like, could you?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
just listen to me.
So I think there is like a timeand a place of like just
listening and not being like,okay, well and John, you know
like diving in and preaching,but you know kind of holding
those.
You know holding those andunderstanding where that time
and space is is going to beagain obedience, listening to
the Lord of like.
Do I need to just listen tothem and let them vent, or is
(29:41):
this a time where, like you wantme, you're inviting me to share
a truth with them?
You know, yeah, lying, and youknow that's actually driving me
insane, but you know just saying, you know like I, you know in
my life I have this, or you knowyeah.
I question that too.
(30:01):
Or like yeah, that would makeme mad too.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You know, just like relating and not just being like
kind of holier than thou youknow, yeah, yeah, I think that
that can be really, reallyimportant for our kids to see
how we struggle how we apologize, how we handle God's truth and
His guidance as well.
Well, your book is one way thatwe can help our kids look at.
(30:26):
Look.
God's hand is on this child'slife the whole time but how do
we help?
Them see that in their ownstory.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I think just by letting them kind of make well,
allowing them to tell you theirstory as they want and as
they're comfortable, and thensaying oh, wow, like in, like
saying out loud, wow, like Godreally protected you there, Like
I know that was hard, but like,oh, my goodness, like that
(30:52):
could have been so much worse.
Or you know, like this couldhave happened to you in this
situation and like you know,whatever have been so much worse
.
Or you know, like this couldhave happened to you in this
situation and like you knowwhatever, helping them.
See, like whoa, he actuallytakes care of me, even though,
like my life has been so hardand there's so many things that
you know you wish your kidsdidn't go through and walk
through, you can say, like, evenin that, like look at what he
(31:14):
did there.
And just like pointing thosethings out to them not to
dismiss the heart away, but tosay like he was still there,
like he still cares for you,like he didn't forget about you
in that time.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, yeah, I think sometimes it's really hard for
kids to, especially older kids,as they start to process their
stories to navigate.
I mean this is even hard for usas parents to navigate.
Process their stories tonavigate.
I mean this is even hard for usas parents to navigate.
Hard and messy, the hard andmessy that we experience and his
(31:46):
faithfulness and his goodnessand his protection and provision
in all things right, and so howdo you talk about that?
How do you?
talk about the sovereignty ofGod with kids and how do we
process that?
How?
Are we supposed to processGod's sovereignty and goodness
(32:07):
and faithfulness, but also toknow some really horrible things
.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I think one of the biggestthings that I come back to again
is looking at different storiesin the Bible.
So not just like cherry pickingverses, like I can do all
things to Christ, but likelooking at actual stories of
people who went through reallyhard things, whether that's Job
or.
Joseph or David, and seeing likethese people went through
(32:34):
horrible, horrible, horriblehorrible things and, at the end
of the day, like God got theglory.
Like God worked through them.
God worked in spite of thembecause of mistakes they made
too.
Like these people, none ofthese people were perfect.
The only perfect person isJesus.
And so we can look at them andsay like, oh, my goodness, like
all these things happened tothis person and this person made
these decisions and stillthey're in the Bible and God
(32:57):
worked through them.
And so I think, just likelooking at those stories, and
even you know, for some kids,like there could be a time when
maybe they're closed off to theBible, like maybe they don't
want to talk about the word, andthey're just like if you say
another verse of me, like I'm apunch in the face.
Like so maybe so.
So then maybe it's like justlike reading good books together
(33:20):
or watching movies that havelike kind of inspirational
themes, not and again, itdoesn't have to be like a
Christian movie or da da, da,but just like, look, having
something in story form of likethings, where you see people
overcome different things or yousee just like the odds stacked
against someone, but and thenstill, you know, I think that
can be really powerful, becausesometimes I really think that
(33:40):
God speaks us through stories,what you know, cause it's like
in the book of Ruth, like itnever says God's name but like
obviously it's a story, it's abook in the Bible, and like it's
about him.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
So it's like, if you are, Well, and you can see his
hand the whole time.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yes, yes, like it, I feel like.
I think it's like where it sayslike and it just so happened,
like several times in Ruth, andit's like it did not just so
happen, like God did it.
And but you know you have like.
So if there's likeinspirational movies or whatever
where you can watch like theirstories kind of being depicted
back to them, of like kidswho've gone through hard things
(34:22):
and you know, again, it doesn'thave to be preachy and have
God's name all over it, but itcould be that story where
they're like, huh, wow, like,and then you know like where it
gets their wheels turning alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, that's.
That is a great, greatperspective.
I think one of the things abouttrauma that I read one time was
that it diminishes a child'sability to hope.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And so you know, giving them those tools where
they can see hope, where theystart to picture that for
themselves, can be really,really cool.
That's amazing.
Well, Jessica, tell us aboutthe resources that you have.
I know you said you had adevotional that you published
and also your children's book.
Tell us a little bit aboutwhere we can find that and where
(34:59):
we can find you.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, so the devotional is called Fostering
Prayer and it's just a 40-dayguide that leads you through all
the things fostering.
So you know, praying overattorneys and CASAs and
caseworkers, and praying forteachers of the kids, and then
praying for the childrenthemselves.
So it just takes you throughevery aspect.
And, honestly, I wrote itbecause I was looking for
(35:21):
something like that.
I was like I need help, I needto know how to pray specifically
, and I just couldn't findanything.
I was like maybe I could justwrite it.
So that's Fostering Prayer andit's available on Amazon.
And then, no Matter when I Go,is the children's book and it's
all about God's love for kids infoster care, and that's on
Amazon.
Lifeway, the publisher'swebsite, christian Book, all of
(35:42):
that.
You can find that in a few moreplaces.
Target even, I think, has itonline too.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
So, yeah, Okay, awesome, and I will link to
those things in the show notesfor you to be able to find them.
Well, jessica, I so appreciateyou coming on today and kind of
just giving us words ofencouragement and guidance as we
try to faithfully walk thisjourney with our kids.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
I enjoyed it so much.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Friend.
I hope today's conversationwith Jessica reminded you that
even when life feels messy oruncertain, god's hand is still
at work.
He weaves redemption into theparts of our stories and our
kids' stories that we thoughtwere too broken, and he is
always faithful to finish whathe starts.
If you want to get to knowJessica better, you can find the
(36:29):
links to her stuff in the shownotes.
Thank you for spending thistime with us.
If this conversation encouragedyou, I would love for you to
share it with a friend who mightneed that reminder of God's
faithfulness today.
And don't forget to connectwith me on Instagram.
You can find me at Nicole TBarlow.
I'd love to hear how God iswriting your story as you step
(36:54):
back into your day.
I want to pray for you, lord.
Thank you that you are theauthor of our stories and that
nothing, nothing, is wasted inyour hands.
We, when we feel stretched thinor unsure of what's next, help
remind us that you are steadyand present and always looking
(37:19):
out for our good.
Help us trust you with ourpriorities, lord.
Help us to release control andto see your fingerprints, even
in the hard spaces.
Give us the courage, lord, towalk by faith and the peace that
comes from knowing that youalways go before us.
We love you and we trust you,lord, in Jesus' name, amen,
(37:51):
thank you.
Welcome to the Foster Parent Well podcast, where we
have real candid, faith-filledconversations about all things
foster care, adoption and trauma.
I'm your host, nicole T Barlow.
I'm a certified parent trainer,a certified health coach and an
adoptive parent myself.
This is a space where you canfind support so that you can
care for your kids with asteadfast faith, endurance and
(00:32):
joy.
I want you to foster parentwell, so let's jump in.
Hey friends, welcome back tothe Foster Parent Well podcast.
(00:57):
Can I ask you a heart levelquestion today?
Have you ever felt like yourpriorities are constantly being
pulled in a hundred differentdirections, like you want to be
present for your kids, serveyour community, you want to pour
into your marriage and still,somehow we still need to be
responsible for how we care forour own heart and health, but
(01:20):
there just aren't enough hoursin the day.
That's exactly where the Lordhas been working on me lately.
He's been gently reminding methat not everything can be first
In this season.
He keeps calling me to lay downmy need to do it all and
instead to keep Him at thecenter, trusting that when my
(01:42):
priorities are aligned with His,he'll give me the strength and
wisdom and peace that I need toshow up well for my family and
for the families that I serve.
And that leads perfectly intotoday's conversation.
I'm so excited to sit down withmy friend, jessica Matheson, as
we talk about what it lookslike to see the hand of God in
(02:05):
our stories and in our kids'stories.
We both know that life doesn'talways unfold the way that we
expect, but when we take time tolook back, we can see His
fingerprints all over thejourney and we can teach our
kids to do the same.
Jessica is the author of noMatter when I Go.
(02:27):
She is a former elementaryschool teacher whose passion it
is to communicate God's love toothers through words and
relationship.
As a writer, speaker andpodcaster, her greatest joy is
helping women love God's word.
She lives just outside ofAtlanta, Georgia, and is a wife
(02:48):
and mama to three kids throughbiology and adoption, so I'm so
excited for her to be here today.
Let's jump into thisconversation.
Well, welcome Jessica.
Why don't you tell ourlisteners a little bit about
yourself and how did you getinto the foster care and
adoption world?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Yeah, so my name is Jessica Matheson.
I'm really excited to get tochat with you today, and I
actually my husband and Ipursued foster care before we
had biological kids.
We talked about adoption on ourvery first date.
Oh my gosh, I know, isn't thatcrazy.
We had met online, so we hadlike been talking for a little
while and then it was like Iguess we're just going there,
(03:29):
you know just talking aboutdreams and things, um, and
foster care was not somethingthat was on our radar until we
walked through a little um,rough patch of infertility and
you know, we were just kind oflike, what do we do?
We've got this empty house,what do we do?
And some friends of ours toldus about a conference that was
at our church and it was forfoster and adoptive parents but
(03:52):
you could also go just to learnand so we attended.
It was held by a local ministrythere and hosted by our church
at the time and we both leftthat day feeling like we were
called to foster.
We had no idea of the crisis,kind of in our backyard and I've
been an elementary schoolteacher and my husband also had
worked in the school system withthe Head Start, pre-k and just
(04:15):
seeing all kinds of differentfamilies and thinking like, oh,
my goodness, this is literallyright in our backyard and we
could be serving and helping ourcommunity in this way, in a way
that also is just, you know, amissional thing that we want to
do to love the Lord.
So that's kind of how we gotinto it.
That's our story.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
I love that.
I love when people say I mean,because I hear these stories all
the time of like people thattalk about adoption and foster
care, like on their first dates,and I'm like, oh my gosh, I
love that people just kind ofthrow it out there Listen, this
is what's on my heart, this iskind of where I want to go with
that, and I just think that'samazing that y'all could have
(04:51):
those conversations early on.
Well, what has your journeybeen like?
How has it been through theyears?
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, so, like I said , we started off before we had
bio kids and we actually had.
You know, the whole processtakes so long to be licensed and
all of that.
You know that's like a wholething.
And so from the time of ussaying like we want to be foster
parents to becoming fosterparents was like a whole year.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
And then, but during that time, you know, we prayed
and we were serving on a team, acare team for another foster
family, and so we were gettingto kind of see this thing
happening in real life before usand it was.
There was like a culture offoster care and adoption that
was being cultivated at ourformer church and so it wasn't
like this totally abnormal thing.
Necessarily we had friends whowere doing the same thing thing.
(05:45):
Necessarily we had friends whowere doing the same thing, and
so that I think that reallyhelped us to be able to step
into it and say like, okay, likewe at least know people that
have done this before and couldtalk to them.
So we had our first placementwas a sibling group of three,
and so zero to three overnight,just completely like what you
know what has happened.
They were 10, eight and sevenand they were with us for a
summer and then we took sometime off and in that time it had
(06:10):
to have been literally rightafter they left I got pregnant
with our son and when I was sixmonths pregnant with him, we
received another placement whowas 15 years old at the time,
and she actually is our foreverdaughter.
She's with us now.
Still Well, doesn't live withus, but she's 22 now.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
And then we, about a year after that, from the summer
of 2020 to 2021, so summer tosummer for about a year we had a
tween girl live with us andduring that time I got pregnant
with our second bio child, who'snow almost four.
And then since then we've movedand, you know, had a lot of
(06:47):
changes, and so we've closed ourhome for the time being but are
in the midst of kind of tryingto help revitalize the foster
and adoptive ministry at ourchurch and walk alongside people
who are doing this for thefirst time and I'm just saying
like, hey, we get it, you're notalone, creating that safe space
and trying to create kind ofthat care model.
And so that's kind of wherewe're at right now and just
(07:08):
praying through what does thislook for us in the future?
Look like for us in the future,lord?
Like where do you have us inthis, in this whole sphere?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Yeah, I mean we've been a journey.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
It's been a journey, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yeah, well, I mean we've, but what does that look
like?
Like how do we invest in thefoster care community?
Because I think once you'repulled into it and your passion
and your heart grows for thisministry, you can't leave.
You have to be doing something,you have to do something, and
(07:41):
so it's kind of walking with theLord at any given moment and
say, hey, what does this looklike in this season?
For us If it's not a seasonwhere we can foster or where
we're meant to foster.
How do we do this?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
So well.
You recently wrote a book, achildren's book, about foster
care right.
Yes, so, tell us a little bitabout that.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
Yeah.
So it's been really interestingbecause up until this point I
had self-published.
I wrote several devotionals andone of them in particular was a
prayer guide for foster parents.
So my heart was always there toserve the foster care community
through my writing, because Ilove to write and my husband had
actually told me for a longtime you should write a kid's
book.
(08:23):
And I'm thinking at this pointI'm self-publishing, that is way
too hard to do, I don't have astory, I don't know how to find
an illustrator, I'm like that isjust too much, like that'll be
another time down the road,whatever.
And but I still did have thisdream of traditionally
publishing, working with apublisher, all the things.
And so the Lord honestlydropped this opportunity in my
(08:46):
lap where my publisher, theeditor, she, found an essay that
I had written online and it hadsome themes of foster care
woven into it.
It was kind of about myunorthodox journey to motherhood
, because becoming a fosterparent before becoming a bio mom
.
And she reached out becausethey had been looking for an
author to partner with them on aresource for kids and they
(09:07):
wanted specifically to have aresource for kids in foster care
.
And so she was like would yoube willing to do this?
And I'm like, are you kiddingme?
I'm like, yes, this is likeperfect.
I couldn't have dreamed this upmyself.
And so that was how it all cameabout.
In the story it's called noMatter when I Go, and the Lord
just really gave me this storybecause of the experiences that
(09:28):
we had.
The Lord just really gave methis story because of the
experiences that we had.
It follows a little girl who'splaced in foster care, but along
the way she has severaldifferent adults and, you know,
safe people in her life who arerepeating these encouraging
words over her.
And that came from ourexperiences we had.
Like I said, we had the siblinggroup and then we had the two
different girls and in each oneof their circumstances and I
(09:50):
think honestly, I feel like thiscould be unique to us, but
maybe it's not but in each oneof those situations we saw that
we were not the first Christiansthat they had met.
There were other people intheir lives who were looking out
for them, who had their eyes onthem, who were praying for them
, advocating for them.
And you know, I think it's veryeasy within the foster care and
(10:13):
adoption world to kind of likepeople whether you do it
yourself or whether people do itto you to kind of like be on a
pedestal of like oh my goodness,I can never do what you do.
You're so amazing, whatever andthat's just not the case Like
we, obviously not the Savior.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Jesus is the Savior.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
And so looking from that lens and seeing like, oh my
goodness, you were working intheir lives before they got to
us.
You already had people who werepraying for them and speaking
truth into their lives and wejust get to be a small part.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And so the story really evolved from that, like
we just get to be a small part,and so the story really evolved
from that, from our experiences.
Wow, what a great opportunityto be able to do a couple of
things to help show kids supportas they are in care and really
show how God's hand is there allalong.
But also to level that playingfield a little bit and to say
(11:10):
hey, as foster parents, and toshow kids the foster parents are
not magically going to save youand make something miraculous
happen.
Everything's going to be great,yeah, well, I mean, a couple of
my kids thought that when theygot adopted, because I think
sometimes that is the narrativejust a culture Right, and
(11:31):
everything's rainbows andbutterflies, because I have this
forever family and it's allbeautiful and yeah.
Yes, and so then, once adoptionactually happened and they
didn't feel any different,You're like well, I'm just still
with you.
I'm just normal.
Yeah, I think you know.
I think it does a lot of things.
I think it sets our kids up forfailure and in their
(11:53):
expectations.
I think it sets the community'sexpectations of us up wrong,
and I think I know for me.
We adopted a big sibling group,a sibling group of five, and so
there were several news storiesabout our family, ok, yeah.
When we went through andeverybody was like oh my gosh,
you're so wonderful, you're sowhatever.
(12:13):
And for me it was really reallyhard, because then it felt like
I had to live up to that.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And that I couldn't mess up.
I couldn't fail.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
I had to live up to this expectation that I was this
great parent.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, you're incredible yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
You've just done this amazing thing, so keep it going
and people would tell me howincredible of a parent that I
was.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
They didn't know me.
You don't even see me parent,you don't even know when I'm
like put your shirt on.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
That's right.
That's right.
I mean, they didn't know.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
Yeah, they just have this idealized thing because
they've seen from afar like, ohmy goodness, and you're like.
You have no idea.
Speaker 1 (12:55):
You have no idea, I am crumbling over here.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, I'm literally drowning, uh-huh Right.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
And so I think to level that playing field all in
one swoop right, you're puttingout this resource for kids, but
I think it also gives a lot ofgrace to parents that you don't
have to be something that youwere never called to be.
Right, yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And honestly I feel like that's something my husband
and I are still learningthrough parenting and just
saying, okay, you know what?
Because for us, when we havethis child in our home who's
eight, 10, 15, 12, whatever,you're kind of thinking like if
it's a long-term placement,you're like, well, we've got to
just like instill so much intothem, we've got to make up for
(13:37):
all the years that have beenlost and da da da.
But like that is not our joband the weight of the world is
not on our shoulders.
I think of that scripture.
I think I want to say it's inLamentations, but it's like it
talks about how God restores theyears that the locusts have
eaten.
Like that's not our job torestore the years the locusts
have eaten.
Like the kids have been throughhell and back, but it's not our
job to then make up for allthat lost time.
(14:00):
Like only the spirit of God canbring that sort of healing in
their lives and we can be anagent through which he works.
But it's not our job or ourresponsibility to fix or heal.
It's just our job to love andcare and to walk with them and
to show them, support andencourage them and have healthy
relationships.
But I think that is somethingthat my husband and I have
(14:20):
struggled with, because we feellike, like you're saying, we
have to live up to a certainexpectation or a certain
standard that we have as parents, or you know, or even like with
our kids, of like, well, wewant them to do X, Y and Z,
because this is you know, andwe've just kind of begun to
distinguish between expectationsversus standards, like for us,
(14:42):
like as believers, like ofcourse we're, like there are
certain standards that we feellike you know that's a good
thing to have, like we're notgoing to lie, we're not.
There are certain standards thatwe feel like you know that's a
good thing to have, like we'renot going to lie, we're not
going to, you know, just, youknow all the things.
But as far as expectations go,like we have to let those go and
trust that God is shaping andmolding our kids bio or adopted
or foster, like he's molding andshaping their lives and we
(15:10):
can't enforce our expectationsof what we think they should be
doing or what they should belike on them it's just not fair
and it's just a recipe fordisaster.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Ask me how I know For real.
Well, I think all of us, asfoster and adoptive parents, we
go through that season some ofus longer than others.
I'm just speaking for myselfhere, yeah when we do put that
expectation on ourselves,because culture almost puts that
expectation on us and we canget sucked into it very, very
(15:38):
quickly and you're never goingto live up to that.
I think there was at one pointone of my lowest points.
Somebody gave me the book NoneLike Him by Jen Wilkin, and it
talks about the attributes ofGod that are not true of us.
So she has another book thattalks about we are made in his
(16:02):
image.
I think it's called.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
In.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
His Image where it's all the attributes of God that
we do have.
But then she has an oppositebook all the attributes of God
that we don't have.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yeah, that's big.
You know it's funny.
I think that's sitting on myshelf and I haven't read it.
Listen, you need to read it.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
Every foster parent needs to read it, because it was
so freeing for me going.
This isn't my job.
This is not my job.
This is not my job.
This is his job.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
This is not my job, that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
The whole way through reading that book.
I'm just going this is not myjob.
This is not my job.
In fact, I probably need toread it every year.
Yeah, but I think that can beso, so difficult to step into
these big things and kind ofrelease it to the Lord and to
teach our kids to do walkingalongside of parents.
Now, in your church community,when they're starting out, how
(17:11):
do you help them start with adifferent frame of mind so that
they're not walking in that heromentality, even unknowingly.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
For sure.
Well, it's interesting becauseI remember with our first
placement, you know, we had themover the summer and then a
little bit into the school yearand we're kind of like they need
to do this and do that and dothat with school and all this
kind of stuff and we're tryingto get them to eat veggies.
Oh, like you know, workingmistakes Right and our one of
the pastors on staff at ourchurch at the time he had also
(17:42):
fostered and we were like kindof talking to him about, well,
we feel like they needed thisand they needed that, and he was
like, honestly, I don't reallyfeel like you need to be doing
all that.
Like just like, keep them alive.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
And we were like what ?
Speaker 2 (18:00):
Like I mean, no, that is not how you parent I mean,
again, had never been parents atall no, we're just like no,
like we have to do more thanthat.
And then I remember also, likein a therapy session, like
talking with a therapist andjust saying you know, kind of
talking about where the kids hadbeen and all that we were
trying to do, and I was like Imean, but you know, we're doing
the best we can, it's betterthan nothing, or you know it's
(18:20):
better than what they had before, you know whatever.
And not like, oh, we're better,but you know what I'm saying
the situation is a healthiersituation.
And she was like I feel likeyou're really dumbing down,
playing down all that you aredoing, because you're showing
them what a healthy family lookslike, you're showing them what
a healthy marriage looks like.
(18:41):
That just in itself is huge.
And so those two things, when Ithink about that, I think, okay
, our pastor was telling us likelisten, you don't know how long
they're going to be with you,just do the best you can with
what you got and don't feel likeyou have to do everything.
That was huge.
But then my counselor,therapist, saying you know what,
(19:05):
just you being you as a witnessand that's huge.
They're going to get so muchjust from seeing you live your
life.
That also is huge too.
So I think, in talking with newfoster parents, what I would
like to say is just do the bestyou can with what you've got and
take one day at a time, becauseyou don't know if they are
(19:28):
going to be with you two weeks,two months, two years, and you
know if it does turn into like along-term placement, like, of
course, like keep going deeper,keep going deeper, keep going
deeper, but don't set out onlike day one or even month,
month one, month two to try andbe overhauling their entire
lives and what we're doing?
Speaker 1 (19:45):
is we're doing, that we're?
Speaker 2 (19:46):
doing that you know, just like, do the best you can
and keep it simple.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Yeah, yeah, well, and I think from their perspective
too, if we try to overhaul theirwhole life right, then we're
we're setting them up forfailure.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yeah, they're like this is awful.
What are you doing to me?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right, I talked to very random, but I talked to a
girl in Walmart one time and shehad just been reunified with
her mom.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
And she told me you know, I don't talk to anybody
like I'm.
I'm that shopper that gets in,gets out.
I don't stop and chit chat.
But for some reason I juststarted talking to this girl and
come to find out she was infoster care, and so I asked her
how her experience in fostercare was, because I wanted to
know.
And she said it was horriblebecause she had come out of a
(20:43):
situation where she was allowedto do all kinds of stuff right.
Yeah, just whatever, it was kindof free reign and she was doing
a lot of things that sheprobably shouldn't be doing,
right, but she kind of had freereign.
And then she comes into thisfoster home a Christian foster
home where she had to change theway that she dressed.
She had to change the way thatshe talked, she had to change
(21:05):
the way that she presentedherself.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
She had to change the way that she talked.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
She had to change the way that she presented herself.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
She had to change the way that she ate.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
She had to change all of these activities that she
was used to phone, tv, internet,all of that kind of stuff was
taken away from her, not tomention some of the bad habits
that she was doing before weretaken away from her right.
So her whole life wasoverhauled in an instant,
because the foster family wasexpecting that she automatically
(21:33):
conformed to their standardsand all of their things.
And for her it was a shock toher system.
It was a completely differentculture.
And so I think, sometimes, whenwe set our expectations on those
material things, on thoseoutward things, kind of things,
(21:54):
or even you were saying goodthings like eating veggies, but
when we overhaul you know, whenwe do an overhaul that fast for
a child, because ourexpectations are set on one
thing and we try to do too muchlike you were saying I think it
(22:15):
can be really really hard on thechild that's going through that
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, and I feel like if I could go back and tell
myself something, it would belike just go slow and trust
God's timing, because I thinkthere's a lot of decisions that
we can make out of fear and it'sjust yeah.
So sometimes I don't like thisword, but it really is.
It's so nuanced and you justreally have to trust God in each
(22:44):
situation to give you thewisdom you need.
And I think if I could go backand tell myself I'd be like girl
, you got to calm down.
Speaker 1 (22:52):
Well, I actually had somebody tell me that.
I mean, so we had beenfostering for a while when we
got placement of our kids and Ihad a parent coach because
things were so tough.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
I was not doing well during that season.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I mean to go from one to six overnight was like it
was not easy and my kids had hada lot of placements and a lot
of trauma even in care, and soit was just a whole, whole
ordeal and my parent coach toldme I was like the lying, like I
just can't get yeah past thelying like it was all day every
(23:27):
day, every child, all the things, yeah, and she said, well, she
goes.
If you don't want them to lie,stop asking them them.
And I'm like, wait what?
And she goes.
I got to be honest that this isnot high on your priority list
right now, that right now you'retrying to keep everybody alive
because safety like keeping ourkids from hurting one another
(23:52):
and hurting themselves and allthe things in those early days
was a really big deal, and soshe was right.
She was like you're looking atthe wrong things, this isn't
important right now.
Did we eventually get to theline?
Yes, once their brain settlesand all the things.
But at the beginning it didn'tmatter that didn't matter, and
(24:12):
to have somebody from theoutside say that I was like, oh
wait, I mean, are you sure?
I mean I don't know.
I mean because I think,especially as Christians, we
have these standards of livingfor our own lives.
Right, we're not going to lie,we're not going to cheat, we're
not going to steal, we're notgoing to do all of these things,
(24:33):
we're not going to useprofanity.
And so when kids come in andall of a sudden they have these
habits from this culture thatthey came from, that doesn't
match up to how we have set upour home or structure or homes
or whatever.
it can be a shock to our systemand we're like no, no, no, this
is wrong, I'm not having this,this has got to go, yeah, and so
(24:54):
we try to overhaul everythingtoo quickly and try to jump in
too fast.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Kind of like you were saying that.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
You know it's OK to chill out for a little while,
but I think also, in addition toour own standards and
expectations, I think, at leastfor me, I know I tend to care
about what other people oh wellother people view my family.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah.
And so I'm like no no, no, youcan't cuss in church.
Yeah, like you.
Excuse me, you're a reflectionof this home.
Right, right right?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
No, no, no.
And so you know that becomes anissue.
That becomes an issue too.
So, so what does?
What does success look like, Doyou think?
For, as parents are steppinginto this journey right, Like
new parents as they're steppingin?
(25:46):
What does it look like?
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Honestly, I would say , obedience, cause I know, for
me, like, sometimes there arethings that I know that I should
do, or like I feel this nudge,but then I'm like, but like you,
I'm like I'm focusing onsomething else because I'm like,
well, this seems more pressingand more important than this
other thing that, like, maybewould be good too.
So, honestly, yeah, likeobedience and just like being in
(26:11):
tune with, like the spirit ofGod of like this is what I've
laid before you and this is whatI want you to do, and being
okay with, like prioritizing hiswill above your own, which is
very difficult.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yeah, and so you're talking about your obedience.
Yeah, not his obedience, yourobedience.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean it's.
I think there's just so manyinstances where it's like I felt
this nudge to do something andI was like, oh, and then
something came around and I waslike, oh well, if I had done
this you know like what like,what I, what I felt like maybe
you told me, you know, and soit's like oh gosh, when will I
learn?
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yes, yeah, yeah, that can be.
That can be really reallydifficult, you know, to I mean,
it's difficult for our kids toobey, but it's also difficult
for us to obey.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
But it's a way that we show our trust in his plan
instead of our own, but I'm like, well, no, this makes more
sense, so obviously my way'sbetter, and that's never true.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Literally never true For real.
I mean, it's like you havesomebody that understands the
future, that's guiding your way.
Speaker 2 (27:20):
I know, I know you would think that I would just
dive right in.
I know.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
I know, but so how can we lean into that?
How do we lean into God more onthis journey and also help our
kids understand how to lean intoHim on this journey?
Speaker 2 (27:40):
Yeah, that's really good.
I think a lot of it comes downto do we even know what he says?
And if we don't know the BibleI mean, obviously this isn't
Bible days and we didn't go toHebrew school and learn the
Torah and have it memorized,memorized but like we have the
written word, which back in theBible times they didn't have
that, and so, like we have thewritten word, we have the full
(28:02):
counsel of God.
Like are we in it?
Like do we actually even knowwhat he says?
Because, like that's going tohelp us check.
Like well, I'm feeling likemaybe you're telling me this,
but like is that?
I don't know?
Like we can check it and see,like well, is that biblical?
Like cause, if it's like not,if it's unbiblical, obviously
he's not telling you to do it.
But if it's biblical, but toyou it just doesn't make sense
(28:22):
that you don't want to he'sprobably telling you to do that,
like you know, like if it'slike if it's like go, you know,
give your daughter a hug, like,but you don't really feel like
it, like you probably just needto give her a hug, you know?
I mean it's like simple thingslike that though.
Really, yeah, you know, likejust those touches and those
connection points and thingswhere it's like he's telling you
(28:45):
exactly what to do.
Are you listening?
And you know, for our kids, Ithink it would be just helping
them honestly on their own levelto understand God's word too.
So whatever that looks like forthe age and stage.
But just like when you'rehaving conversations and they're
confused and they're asking youquestions and different things,
like pointing them back toGod's word and saying like, okay
(29:07):
, like, what does God say aboutthis?
And I know, sometimes with kids, you know, I had a friend who
once told me that he was tryingto talk to his daughter and she
was just like, could we not makethis a sermon?
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Like, could you?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
just listen to me.
So I think there is like a timeand a place of like just
listening and not being like,okay, well and John, you know
like diving in and preaching,but you know kind of holding
those.
You know holding those andunderstanding where that time
and space is is going to beagain obedience, listening to
the Lord of like.
Do I need to just listen tothem and let them vent, or is
(29:41):
this a time where, like you wantme, you're inviting me to share
a truth with them?
You know, yeah, lying, and youknow that's actually driving me
insane, but you know just saying, you know like I, you know in
my life I have this, or you knowyeah.
I question that too.
(30:01):
Or like yeah, that would makeme mad too.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
You know, just like relating and not just being like
kind of holier than thou youknow, yeah, yeah, I think that
that can be really, reallyimportant for our kids to see
how we struggle how we apologize, how we handle God's truth and
His guidance as well.
Well, your book is one way thatwe can help our kids look at.
(30:26):
Look.
God's hand is on this child'slife the whole time but how do
we help?
Them see that in their ownstory.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
I think just by letting them kind of make well,
allowing them to tell you theirstory as they want and as
they're comfortable, and thensaying oh, wow, like in, like
saying out loud, wow, like Godreally protected you there, Like
I know that was hard, but like,oh, my goodness, like that
(30:52):
could have been so much worse.
Or you know, like this couldhave happened to you in this
situation and like you know,whatever have been so much worse
.
Or you know, like this couldhave happened to you in this
situation and like you knowwhatever, helping them.
See, like whoa, he actuallytakes care of me, even though,
like my life has been so hardand there's so many things that
you know you wish your kidsdidn't go through and walk
through, you can say, like, evenin that, like look at what he
(31:14):
did there.
And just like pointing thosethings out to them not to
dismiss the heart away, but tosay like he was still there,
like he still cares for you,like he didn't forget about you
in that time.
You know.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
Yeah, yeah, I think sometimes it's really hard for
kids to, especially older kids,as they start to process their
stories to navigate.
I mean this is even hard for usas parents to navigate.
Process their stories tonavigate.
I mean this is even hard for usas parents to navigate.
Hard and messy, the hard andmessy that we experience and his
(31:46):
faithfulness and his goodnessand his protection and provision
in all things right, and so howdo you talk about that?
How do you?
talk about the sovereignty ofGod with kids and how do we
process that?
How?
Are we supposed to processGod's sovereignty and goodness
(32:07):
and faithfulness, but also toknow some really horrible things
.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Yeah, yeah.
I think one of the biggestthings that I come back to again
is looking at different storiesin the Bible.
So not just like cherry pickingverses, like I can do all
things to Christ, but likelooking at actual stories of
people who went through reallyhard things, whether that's Job
or.
Joseph or David, and seeing likethese people went through
(32:34):
horrible, horrible, horriblehorrible things and, at the end
of the day, like God got theglory.
Like God worked through them.
God worked in spite of thembecause of mistakes they made
too.
Like these people, none ofthese people were perfect.
The only perfect person isJesus.
And so we can look at them andsay like, oh, my goodness, like
all these things happened tothis person and this person made
these decisions and stillthey're in the Bible and God
(32:57):
worked through them.
And so I think, just likelooking at those stories, and
even you know, for some kids,like there could be a time when
maybe they're closed off to theBible, like maybe they don't
want to talk about the word, andthey're just like if you say
another verse of me, like I'm apunch in the face.
Like so maybe so.
So then maybe it's like justlike reading good books together
(33:20):
or watching movies that havelike kind of inspirational
themes, not and again, itdoesn't have to be like a
Christian movie or da da, da,but just like, look, having
something in story form of likethings, where you see people
overcome different things or yousee just like the odds stacked
against someone, but and thenstill, you know, I think that
can be really powerful, becausesometimes I really think that
(33:40):
God speaks us through stories,what you know, cause it's like
in the book of Ruth, like itnever says God's name but like
obviously it's a story, it's abook in the Bible, and like it's
about him.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
So it's like, if you are, Well, and you can see his
hand the whole time.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yes, yes, like it, I feel like.
I think it's like where it sayslike and it just so happened,
like several times in Ruth, andit's like it did not just so
happen, like God did it.
And but you know you have like.
So if there's likeinspirational movies or whatever
where you can watch like theirstories kind of being depicted
back to them, of like kidswho've gone through hard things
(34:22):
and you know, again, it doesn'thave to be preachy and have
God's name all over it, but itcould be that story where
they're like, huh, wow, like,and then you know like where it
gets their wheels turning alittle bit.
Speaker 1 (34:26):
Yeah, that's.
That is a great, greatperspective.
I think one of the things abouttrauma that I read one time was
that it diminishes a child'sability to hope.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
And so you know, giving them those tools where
they can see hope, where theystart to picture that for
themselves, can be really,really cool.
That's amazing.
Well, Jessica, tell us aboutthe resources that you have.
I know you said you had adevotional that you published
and also your children's book.
Tell us a little bit aboutwhere we can find that and where
(34:59):
we can find you.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, so the devotional is called Fostering
Prayer and it's just a 40-dayguide that leads you through all
the things fostering.
So you know, praying overattorneys and CASAs and
caseworkers, and praying forteachers of the kids, and then
praying for the childrenthemselves.
So it just takes you throughevery aspect.
And, honestly, I wrote itbecause I was looking for
(35:21):
something like that.
I was like I need help, I needto know how to pray specifically
, and I just couldn't findanything.
I was like maybe I could justwrite it.
So that's Fostering Prayer andit's available on Amazon.
And then, no Matter when I Go,is the children's book and it's
all about God's love for kids infoster care, and that's on
Amazon.
Lifeway, the publisher'swebsite, christian Book, all of
(35:42):
that.
You can find that in a few moreplaces.
Target even, I think, has itonline too.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
So, yeah, Okay, awesome, and I will link to
those things in the show notesfor you to be able to find them.
Well, jessica, I so appreciateyou coming on today and kind of
just giving us words ofencouragement and guidance as we
try to faithfully walk thisjourney with our kids.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah, thank you so much for having me.
I enjoyed it so much.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Friend.
I hope today's conversationwith Jessica reminded you that
even when life feels messy oruncertain, god's hand is still
at work.
He weaves redemption into theparts of our stories and our
kids' stories that we thoughtwere too broken, and he is
always faithful to finish whathe starts.
If you want to get to knowJessica better, you can find the
(36:29):
links to her stuff in the shownotes.
Thank you for spending thistime with us.
If this conversation encouragedyou, I would love for you to
share it with a friend who mightneed that reminder of God's
faithfulness today.
And don't forget to connectwith me on Instagram.
You can find me at Nicole TBarlow.
I'd love to hear how God iswriting your story as you step
(36:54):
back into your day.
I want to pray for you, lord.
Thank you that you are theauthor of our stories and that
nothing, nothing, is wasted inyour hands.
We, when we feel stretched thinor unsure of what's next, help
remind us that you are steadyand present and always looking
(37:19):
out for our good.
Help us trust you with ourpriorities, lord.
Help us to release control andto see your fingerprints, even
in the hard spaces.
Give us the courage, lord, towalk by faith and the peace that
comes from knowing that youalways go before us.
We love you and we trust you,lord, in Jesus' name, amen,
(37:51):
thank you.
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