December 5, 2024 • 34 mins
Licensed therapist Jessica Turner joins us to illuminate the often-neglected necessity of self-care during the frenetic holiday season. With her expertise in trauma therapy, Jessica provides actionable insights on how prioritizing our well-being can strengthen personal health and relationships. Prepare to rethink your holiday approach as you learn the crucial importance of securing your own metaphorical oxygen mask before trying to help others. Discover ways to carve out precious moments for yourself even amidst a whirlwind of obligations and understand why self-care is foundational, not just a luxury.
This episode challenges the societal norms and commercial pressures that bombard us, particularly during the holidays. Through personal stories like an impromptu getaway to Jamaica, we reveal the liberation that comes from breaking free from relentless productivity expectations. Jessica encourages us to question what truly sparks joy in our lives, rather than conforming to a one-size-fits-all holiday image. Listeners will gain a fresh perspective on embracing downtime and self-care as transformative elements to create a holiday experience filled with genuine happiness and personal fulfillment.
As stress levels rise with the holiday hustle, we explore healthy coping mechanisms that can transform your mental landscape. Jessica sheds light on how basic needs like hydration, nutrition, and sleep play an essential role in managing stress, referencing Maslow's hierarchy of needs. We tackle the challenges of grief and trauma during the holidays and offer practical strategies, such as setting boundaries and utilizing therapeutic activities like walking. This episode is your guide to building a personal toolbox for emotional resilience, aimed at enhancing both mental and physical well-being through the holiday season and beyond.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the 4.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Bars podcast.
I'm Ken Leith and I'm PattiLeith.
We're your hosts for somecompelling dialogue, encouraging
our listeners to strengthentheir connections and build
strong communities, lifting eachother up and connecting in ways
that matter.
We named the podcast 4 Bars asa reference to how hard we work
to find a 4 Bars connection onour devices.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
And we wondered what could happen with relationships
if we worked as hard atconnecting.
Let's find out.
Welcome back to the Four Barspodcast.
I'm your co-host, Ken Leith,along with my host.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm Patti Leith.
Welcome back.
It's great to be here today.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And we are welcoming today with us Jessica Turner.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi, yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Thank you for being here.
Absolutely, we're going to havegood conversations today.
Today, we're going to beexploring holiday life and
relationships and how do we makeconnections during that and how
does that impact us on aregular basis.
So I think that's somethingwe're going to really get in.
But first I'd like to know alittle bit, Jessica, about your
background.
Share that with the audience,if you would.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Sure, yeah.
So, as we said, I'm a licensedtherapist.
I practice here locally inRogers, arkansas, so just down
the street from Bentonville, andI have been practicing for gosh
nine years I think that soundslike such a big number to say.
I work in individual settings,so one-on-one therapy, mostly
(01:20):
with adults, and I specialize intrauma.
So I work with a lot of complexPTSD people healing from, like
childhood traumas and, yeah, Ilove what I do.
It's really rewarding, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
When I met Jessica, because she teaches a self care
Sunday at one of the placeswhere I'm a member and I love
going and just taking a coupleof hours or an hour and a half
on a Sunday morning and saying,hey, let's, let's just think and
be and present and be present.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So yeah, absolutely yeah, and having heard a little
bit about that, one of mythoughts was kind of what was
your inspiration to createself-care Sundays?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I do all my best thinking like late at night when
I'm supposed to be going to bed, um, I do all my best thinking
like late at night when I'msupposed to be going to bed, and
so just one night I had just ajust an aha moment of you know,
I think, because I was thinkingabout the programming and lake
street and they do so many greatevents around all sorts of
different topics, but a lot ofthemes around lake street are,
you know, wellness and um,taking care of herself in
(02:23):
various ways, um, and I.
So I was thinking about how canI bring what I do into a space
like that?
Because I felt like, you know,inherently my, my values match a
lot of the Blake's Tree valuesand, you know, therapy kind of
matches a lot of the Blake'sTree values, and so, and so I
just was thinking about, youknow, dedicating us time once a
(02:43):
month, one Sunday a month, foran hour or so, just having like
a time you can put on yourcalendar.
I'm going to focus on takingcare of myself.
We get so caught up in life dayto day and we it's much easier
to focus on other people's needsand take care of other people,
and we don't often take thattime for ourselves, and so I
live and die by my calendar.
(03:03):
So if it's on the calendar, I'mgoing to do it, and so it's
like this is a good way to, youknow, bring in some some time to
just focus on, on the self,yeah.
And so every month we pick adifferent type of self care
whether it's, you know,recreational, spiritual,
physical and we just focus on adifferent element of self care
wellness.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And one of the biggest reasons we don't
self-care is we say, hey, wedon't have time exactly.
And so when, when I put this onmy calendar, I'm I'm really
careful to not say to myself, oh, I don't have time to do that
tomorrow, yeah, um, becausethat's the whole point of it.
So it's okay.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I talk to clients all the time, especially when they
are in under times of stress,self-care is the first thing to
go.
There is that idea of oh well,I don't have time for this, this
is something frivolous, this issomething I don't need, but it
really should be foundational.
I talk to people all the timeabout kind of.
The classic therapy metaphor isyou know, when you're on an
airplane and then something goeswrong, or the safety demo, they
(03:59):
tell you that you knowsomething goes wrong, the oxygen
masks will fall, and to putyour own mask on first.
And so we really have to putthat.
You know, or apply that ratherto our own lives.
And you got to put your ownmask on first.
You got to take care ofyourself before you can
effectively take care of otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, so good points.
Absolutely, I think about thatpart too, where you got to take
care of yourself.
And now we're thinking aboutthe holidays.
We hear often that that's oneof the things that gets
sacrificed on the holidays.
Can you expand a?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
little bit about.
What do we think about thatparticular area?
Yeah, sure, and I think youknow the holidays are such a
hustle, bustle sort of timeoften.
You know, we've got all sortsof parties and work events and
family events, and I think wejust get so overwhelmed.
I remember last December therewasn't a day for like a two week
stretch where I had nothing onthe calendar.
(04:52):
Yeah, it was just it.
For whatever reason, they allthe events just lined up on that
same kind of two week and soweekdays included.
And so I remember being like Idon't have a second to just sit
on my couch.
And so going back to that ideaof like, oh well, I don't have
time to take care of myself, I'mso I've got something every
single day, so like I just Idon't have time for me.
And so I think, especiallybecause the holidays, you know,
(05:17):
they're focused around a lot oftimes like giving, and so with
that there's the sense that,well, I have to give everything
I have to other people.
You know, taking time for myselfis selfish.
I hear that a lot.
Well, if I do something formyself and I say no to this
person, I'm being selfish.
I'm like, well, what's wrongwith that?
Yeah, why is selfish a badthing?
We've become to know it as anegative thing, but it's not
(05:40):
selfish to take care of yourself.
And even if it were, if that'sselfish, do it Be selfish.
Be selfish.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Make some progress in life, Exactly, Set yourself up
for success so that you can bemore productive and effective in
these other areas and hopefullyhappier too, because it seems
like when we start sacrificingsomething that we're not doing
and maybe not overtly, but maybein the back it's like oh wow,
I'm having to go do this, soyou're not going to have the
(06:08):
full level of what I would callsatisfaction out of that, right,
because you're thinking I'mmissing out on my, my workout,
I'm missing out on these otherthings.
I should be doing things ofthat nature.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Absolutely it.
Really.
There has to be a mindsetswitch before there can really
be a behavior switch, because wehave to start thinking of rest
and that self care time as aproductive thing.
You know we think of if I'mgoing to spend the morning doing
nothing, if I'm going to spendthe morning, you know, just
taking time for me, we think ofthat as lazy, crazy we do, and
(06:46):
so then, as you're, you know,you could be laying on the couch
taking some much needed timefor yourself and you are, like
you said, you're thinking aboutall these things that you should
be doing.
So then that rest is notproductive.
Something I tell people a lot isyou know, when your phone dies,
when the battery dies, youcan't keep going.
You have to put it on thecharger before you it'll work
anymore, it's true, but we, ourbatteries, die and we just keep
going, going, going, and so youhave to put yourself on the
(07:08):
charger sometimes, whatever thatlooks like for you.
For some people that's sittingon the couch and binging some TV
.
For some people that's goingoutside and, like I, love to go
be in the mountains wherethere's no people whenever I
need to recharge, and that'sgreat for me.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
But it really is whatever works for you.
But, like I said, there has tobe that like mental shift first.
Yeah, to take time, to be ableto, yeah, and that there's
nothing wrong with it.
Exactly, I remember I've gottenbetter about taking my time,
but earlier in life and stillsometimes I'm go go, go, go go.
And I remember a friend comingover one Sunday afternoon when I
had decided that I was wayoverdue for a charge and being
embarrassed because I reallywasn't doing anything, I hadn't
(07:49):
put on any makeup.
And she's like oh, it's good tosee that you're joining the
rest of the world.
It's taking some time, somedowntime.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe Ishould do more of that.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You were going above and beyond, thinking it was
normal, and these other peopleare like Patti is doing the most
.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
But it can be very transformational One year but
but it can be very, uh,transformational.
Um, one year we did somethingwe've never thought of doing and
it was right up, uh, coming upto christmas and it's just like
we had been going that thatcycle for work for a long time
and then you know they're in theholidays on top of it and
probably, I don't know, maybe itwas like this, maybe around the
(08:29):
10th of the month, it's like Ijust need a break.
And we weren't going to begoing traveling that year to go,
uh, see our children here incolorado, stuff, and but what we
decided to do at the lastminute was like where could we
go that we could get to and fromwhenever you as far as there
and back at a reasonable lengthof travel and was cost effective
(08:52):
.
So we ended up going to Jamaicaon a spur of the moment kind of
scenario.
Again, we planned it maybe witha week's notice, went there and
we returned on Christmas EveAmazing, and it was pretty chill
and relaxed when we got back.
And you know, during that time,you know the typical thing we've
(09:12):
been at home doing our hustleand bustle, which we all
probably enjoy to his degree,and because I know I do, but
sure, but create that stressorsso they start to add up.
Here we were horseback riding,you know, we were walking up
falls.
We were just out in the in thewater and kayaking and just
doing all this stuff and nothaving to think about it and
(09:33):
just meeting other people whoare there kind of for the same
reason, I think probably thesame, yeah, same reason.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, and he suggested I was like all these
things that haven't been doneyet right for christmas and I
have to do them all, where Ihave to do them all, and and it
turned out it really was okaynot to do some of them and we
could do some of them from wherewe were, but it was.
It was an interesting, uh, youknow, kind of take on the
holidays and when I said yes, Ifelt like the main characters in
(10:02):
christmas with the cranks I wasjust.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
That was literally as you were describing.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was like it's like christmas, yeah, but without the
rushing home to deal with thekids all of a sudden because,
frankly, if they had decided tocome home, we would have been
out of luck.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, oh yeah but, that would have been great too,
I'm sorry no, you're good.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I was gonna say I think you bring up a good point
about all these things you haveto do yeah says who, yeah, says
everything to who right I thinkthat the who, that's always a
really interesting thing.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I we had a little bit of conversation about it's kind
of I think it's children in ourcountry and I mean this could
be everywhere, but I don'tnecessarily think it is
everywhere.
But there's a certain amountthat gets ingrained to us from
the commercial side.
You know the imagery, uh,whether it's the many, many um
christmas movies since we ourchildhood that we've seen,
(10:54):
hallmark cards, then holidayletters and the stuff that come
out.
There's a certain expectationof that life yep and um.
You know, for some people theywill remember some, but it's
almost like that.
You know, it's a wonderful lifekind of scenario where it's got
to be this just idealistic sortof what do you think drives
(11:15):
those expectations of ourselves?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
for for many of us, and there's probably more than
one thing sure, I think I thinkyou're right.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I think a big part of it is just this kind of
societal expectation of whatthat should look like, and I
think from that, if you look atit, because if you watch these,
you know it's a maybe not it's awonderful life, cause it's not
very wonderful for so much of it.
I watched that movie for thefirst time and I was like this
is the saddest thing ever.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
A misnomer.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
It's not wonderful, but a lot of these Christmasmas
movies, you know, or when youthink about the idea of the
holidays or the idea ofchristmas, there's just this
sense of joy, right, the senseof happiness.
This is what it's supposed to,these are the feelings it's
supposed to bring out in you.
Yeah, and who doesn't want that?
Yes, right, and so we all wantthat sense of happiness and joy
and connection.
(12:06):
Um, I think the problem is whenwe are going based on kind of
those societal expectations andnot necessarily checking in with
does this work for me?
Right, you're trying to attainsomething that may not even be
good for you or may not berealistic for you.
We just have this sense of well, this is what it's supposed to
look like, right, and this, if Ido this thing, it's going to
(12:28):
bring like right and this, if Ido this thing, it's going to
bring me joy.
Yeah, yes, right.
And so if I go to all thesechristmas or holiday parties,
that's going to make me happy,because that's what you're
supposed to do and if it doesn'tmake me happy, that's wrong
with me.
Exactly, exactly, yeahsomething wrong with me.
Maybe it's just that you're anintrovert and going to all these
holiday parties is drainingyeah, that's simple, right,
that's okay.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And to me, mine, I'm the person who's like oh,
another party.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, I get energy from that he has more, and we're
both pretty outgoing yes, youget a lot more energy after a
day with a lot of people bygoing out than I do, yeah sure,
um, I always joke that there's,you know, there's golden
retrievers in the world and thenthere's cats, and so a lot of
(13:12):
golden retriever activities makeme very exhausted, and I can,
you know, I like to do thosethings from time to time.
I'm a, I always say I'm like anextroverted introvert.
I need that socialization fromtime to time, but it wears me
out and so I have to go be a catand go be by myself and just
(13:32):
sit people and just be grumpyfor a while.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
After lots of golden retriever activities and I'm
similar we have a tool that weuse in our work where we help
people collaborate, and one ofthe things is whether or not a
person prefers to vet theirideas and build them from zero
to 60, internally or externally.
And I actually do thatexternally.
So my thinking, you know, walkwith me on this.
(13:53):
Sure, let's think out loudtogether.
And yet a lot of my personalitytesting over the years, I'll
come in with a little bit ofintroversion and you know, the
recommendation always is take alittle cave time, right, and so
I do that.
I get up before anybody else, Isit on the couch with my puppy
and a cup of coffee and a goodbook and and then I can kind of
recharge.
(14:13):
But he doesn't need that um,and so he's more extroverted and
has that external sure need toprocess.
Yeah, it's very interesting,yeah yeah, the battery's always.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So I'm more like you extroverted, introvert yeah, I
would.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
When I was younger.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I feel like I was shy and I don't feel shy today, but
um, that's probably learnedover the years I think that
that's a good point, because wecan shift, and we typically do
shift, and even you know, basedon the stressors you have in
life, like you may as whetherit's for better or worse but you
may withdraw a little morewhenever in a time of stress, or
(14:49):
you may be reaching out toothers more when you're in a
time of stress, and sometimesthat's in a healthy way.
Sometimes not so much, but,yeah, we, our needs shift
depending on what's happening inour lives, and so I think it's
important to just constantly bechecking in with yourself and
asking yourself is this actuallylike serving a purpose that's
good for me?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
yeah and I think um for many and I'd love and I
think um for many and I'd loveto get your perspective on this,
but for many um people, we dohave a tendency to detach a
little more during stress.
Um, is that good or bad, andwhat can you do about it?
Does it depend on the person?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I think it depends on the person.
Um, and that's always the mostannoying answer, cause so many,
especially when we're dealingwith like psychology and the
human mind is so like persondependent.
I can say I tend to withdrawsocially in times of stress and
it's not always super healthyfor me, because I think it's the
(15:42):
reason it's person dependent isbecause we have to ask
ourselves what am I, am I trying, am I doing this to avoid or am
I doing this to?
You know, we have to rechargeExactly, we have to assess our
intentions, and that's alwayseasy to do because sometimes we
lose that like self awarenessbecause we're in a time of
stress and so cause I know whatI'm doing and I'm trying to just
(16:03):
detach from the world.
And it's not always a greatthing because I'm not always
actually spending that timeproductively recharging and
sometimes I'm just like in ahole.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
Are there any methodologiesthat people can do and think
about during the holiday seasonthat helps them realize?
Oh, there are some things goingon within me and I need to kind
of evaluate that so I thinkalways having a baseline is
really helpful.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So one of the first things I typically talk to
clients about when they're newand they come into the office is
let's establish some sort ofbaseline for where you are just
kind of day to day.
So whether that's by liketracking your mood there's tons
of apps that you can use forthat these days, where it's just
you pick the smiley face thatmatches how you're feeling.
That sort of thing, and it canbe something that simple Because
we have to increase ourawareness of ourselves.
(16:52):
A lot of times we're just kindof going through the motions day
to day and you're not takingthat time to really check in, so
you may not even really knowwhat is normal for you, right,
we've never actually taken thetime to assess, like what, where
is my mood day to day, day,because if you're more aware of
that, you're going to one you'reactively monitoring, right, and
(17:13):
so by doing that, you're goingto be more mindful of whenever
that starts to shift, becauseyou're taking that action to
actually check in.
And so I think, from there youknow, if you start noticing,
okay, there's some shiftshappening, and generally, I
think, when those shifts there,they tend to be a little more
negative, right, and so then youcan start pulling in that
(17:35):
toolbox of strategies, copingskills, things that you tend to
do to de-stress, whether that's,yeah, connecting with friends
or family or, you know, takingthat internal time to recharge,
whatever that looks like.
Yes, I think just having abetter sense of where you are
day to day, having that baseline, is really helpful.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And I think, through the holiday stresses and an all
time high and sure copers can beboth positive and negative.
Absolutely, there's probablyaccess to more negative copers
during the holidays.
All the treats, all the treats,the food, there's so much.
You know the libations.
Yeah, yes, totally yeah.
Can you speak to that?
And what are some good checksfor us as we experience that
(18:16):
stress?
Because most of us, I think,can feel our stress level rising
and with that we feel ourselvesdoing the things like
disconnecting or you know.
So, as I'm realizing that, whatare some of the good strategies
to stay with positive copersrather than negative?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I think something I always recommend to people is
like on your notes app on yourphone, pull it out and make a
list of all the things that tendto help you whenever you are
stressed, things that just makeyou feel better, and then from
there we can look at, okay, allthese things on this list, kind
of sussing out whether they'repositive or negative.
(18:52):
Generally, drinking as a copingskill is not a healthy thing,
right, generally, smokingcigarettes as a coping skill is
not a healthy thing.
So, there's some easy kind ofred flags there that you can
look for, but I think anythingice cream at midnight, right I
think anything can be a copingskill.
It's so much fun.
Yes, come on.
I always say it's like my dirtyraccoon time when I go in the
(19:15):
middle of the night in thepantry and I just grab some
random snacks that don't gotogether at all and I'm just
like this is my dirty raccoontime.
It's not a healthy thingnecessarily, but you know,
sometimes you have to just dowhat you got to do.
Sometimes I think anything.
I tell people all the time Ithink anything can be a coping
skill.
It's just a matter of is thisactually working for me?
(19:37):
Or is this something that youknow, my therapist taught me and
it doesn't actually work for me, because that's okay too.
Not everything is going to besuper effective.
But going circling back to thatkind of checking in with
yourself a lot of times.
If you're monitoring your moodday to day and you're kind of
keeping track of that, um, youcan also be keeping track of.
Okay, I tried this deepbreathing technique, for example
(19:58):
, and I was able to see, oh, itdid help right right my stress
levels decreased from that.
Um.
Or you can see, okay, I triedthat deep breathing technique.
It didn't really work so much,and then we can explore.
It is maybe that's just not agreat skill for you, or maybe
there's something about thatmethod specifically, and then we
can reevaluate from there.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
One year I did some evaluative work on my own stress
, because I that's somethingI've had to work on my whole
life is just keeping that incontrol, and one of the things
that I realized is that when Iwas staying well hydrated and
eating well and sleeping well,all the indicators of stress
were less.
Yeah Right, and so getting intothat good routine is also
(20:37):
something that's a that's agreat point.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
There's something called Maslow's hierarchy of
needs, and it's a psychologicaltheory that basically says you
cannot reach.
It's a pyramid that's gotdifferent layers and basically
you can't reach the top, whichis self-actualization, which is
a person reaching their fullpotential.
But according to maslow, youcan't reach that top layer until
every layer underneath has beenmet, and so the very bottom
(20:59):
layer is safety and security,and so it's as simple as food,
water, warmth, rest.
Yeah, and something I talk toclients constantly about is that
rest, because like 80 percentof the time we can chalk up, you
know, a mood situation,whatever, a shift down to like
how's your sleep?
Are you getting good,consistent, quality sleep?
(21:20):
Because if you're not, so muchof your day is just trying to
keep up.
You're tired and so you'refocused on how tired you are,
you can't make the the goal ormeet the goals that you want,
because your basic needs aren'tbeing right.
Right, yeah, yeah, a lot ofthis stuff is really really
simple.
Sometimes it is just a matterof what are you eating?
(21:41):
Are you eating nutrient-richfood that is actually giving
your body the, the, the powerthat it needs to do what it
needs to do?
Right, yeah, what's your sleep?
Look like.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, those were important.
Hydration for me was also a bigyou know thing and I monitored
several aspects of my stress andit was like a little study that
I did trying to figure out youknow what.
What are the things that I cando that really impact stress
without me having to think aboutit?
Sure, right, and staying wellrested and well fed and well
(22:13):
hydrated.
Yeah, and two.
You know three of those thingsit truly is.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
That's in there sometimes.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, secret yeah, I think if you
think about that, I mean I lookat that and go.
I always look at where's thesimilarity things.
I've always considered thehuman body to be really it's the
model for machines.
Sure, in the world you know,there's cooling systems,
filtration systems, you needfuel, uh all these things that
(22:37):
you need to have there.
So when you talk about that, Imean and water is an important
component water keeps uh, it'spart of our cleansing filter
problem, is part of us beingable to cool within everything,
keep our body regulated andstuff of that nature.
But your point, sometimes,again, water is one of the
things I know.
For years I did I was very poorat.
(22:59):
I've gotten much better at that.
Probably will never be as goodas patty on that but I haven't
always been good.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
and then I've had a significant change about 15
years ago and it's been a goodchange for me.
But when I get busy I'm like oh.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It's one of the easiest things to neglect.
Yeah, it is Nothing as simpleas drinking water is one of the.
I mean, what's the statisticLike?
Over 80% of the population isconstantly dehydrated or
something like that yeah, um andso yeah, it shows just how easy
it is to neglect that areainteresting and agreed and as we
, as we bounce towards theholidays, a lot of the stress
(23:34):
can can be can be counteractedif you take time to keep your
healthy habits absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Exercise is another one that I have gotten a lot of
energy from, yeah, the years.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, developing those habits before the holidays
and then sticking to them asbest as you can through.
So giving yourself some gracewhenever we do have slip-ups,
because I think that's somethingpeople are so hard on ourselves
.
You know you're trying to stickto whatever nutrition plan and
over the holidays there's treatseverywhere people have treats
and then they beat themselves upover it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
You're adding to your stress yeah, yeah yeah, eat the
treats and move along, okay, umwhat happens to the, the brain,
the body when we spend timewhere we are beating ourselves
up versus kind of just move onto the next thing, whether we
did something wrong, whether wetook that treat, whatever,
whatever it may be.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
You have to think about the script that you have
for yourself in your head, and alot of times the scripts that
we have for ourselves in ourheads they're not actually our
words.
They're words that we havemaybe been told for a long time
and we have adapted or adoptedrather, those words, and so I
tell people sometimes.
I'm like write down thosethoughts that you have about
(24:48):
yourself and then read thosethings out loud you would never
say those things to anotherperson.
Why are you saying them toyourself?
Yeah right, it does.
It creates this negativenarrative and then you're less
likely to take care of yourselfbecause you're telling yourself
that all of these negativethings, and so you're telling
yourself you're not worth takingcare of yeah, right, yes,
because you have all of thisnegative framework yeah explore
(25:11):
a little bit the impact thatgrief or trauma has on our
holiday experience and why wemay struggle or some of us may
struggle at times to really getinto that happy vibe that we
think we should sure, sure,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think that's a big, that's a big challenge.
It is.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I talk to people a lot as they're navigating grief
about.
You know, the hardest partsfollowing grief Um, there's
usually going to be two reallyhard days or two really hard um
periods of time, like every yearas you grieve, and that's
usually the birthday oranniversary of passing of the
person, or the holidays, right,those tend to always be a little
(25:49):
more difficult.
Um, because often when it'srelated to grief, we're focusing
on the, the absence of thatperson, right, and so it's
supposed to be I'm using airquotes there.
It's supposed to be this timeof, you know, family and unity
and connection.
And if that's not your reality,back to what you were saying
(26:10):
about, oh, what's wrong with meright now?
Why don't I have these things?
And so that impacts our abilityto be able to enjoy the
holidays.
A lot of people have a lot ofdread leading up to the holidays
, as much as it can be thishappy, joyous, wonderful time.
For a lot of people, it's notbecause they're already starting
to focus on their lack of whatthey're supposed to have.
(26:31):
And when it comes to trauma,similar things, depending on the
circumstances of the trauma,right.
The holidays maybe a reminder,maybe you have to be around
people that have caused youtrauma right, and so that's
another layer that can be reallydifficult to navigate with
people Cause, a lot of times,people, only people that are
estranged from their families.
They maybe only really see themat the holidays out of a sense
(26:53):
of obligation.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Are there things that the people who who are
triggered in some way by theholidays either I'm missing a
loved one or I have to be aroundsomeone who caused me pain, or
I remember that pain because ofsome holiday memory Are there
things that you can encouragepeople to keep in mind as they?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
feel those things I often have, like we'll establish
a game plan with the client,but, you know, leading into the
holidays, because so many peoplereally struggle through the
holidays for all the reasons youmentioned and so sometimes and
again it's one of those likedepends on the person, but
sometimes that strategy is don'tgo visit your family, yeah.
(27:35):
Yeah, right can be, becausesometimes we're only doing that
for the other person and it'scausing ourselves all of this
distress.
Why are you doing it?
What's going to happen if youdon't?
You know you might have alittle more peace just by not
yeah, and so sometimes it's that, sometimes it's you know we're
going to go for a walk whenthings start to get heated or
(27:57):
when things start to get alittle intense.
I'm going for walks is a really,really simple but really
effective coping skill that wecan all implement whenever and
activate something calledbilateral stimulation, so just
the rhythm of your feet hittingthe pavement.
Basically it activates bothsides of the brain, which
doesn't happen and really in anyother situation outside of like
(28:21):
REM sleep, and so both sides ofyour brain are firing at the
same time, and so your fullbrain is activated and is able
to deal with things a little bitbetter.
And so interesting I talk topeople a lot about, you know, go
for a walk, no music, just bewith your thoughts and let your
brain process, like your fullbrain process.
That.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, and the dog will thank you as well.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
And it's a good physical movement.
You know it's going to get someendorphins flowing.
Yeah, happy hormones, so yeah Ithink about that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Throughout the years we I think we both have utilized
that unknowingly, uh, becauseyou know, going for long runs
when times are stressful, it'sthat nature absolutely you'll
often hear people describerunning as therapy, and while I
absolutely will not agree withthat, running is a torture.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I understand the science behind why people feel
that way, because it can getvery meditative and you're in
your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yes you work through.
I ran for many, many years andthen ran into some physical
injuries that have kept.
Well, it's better if I don'trun I still do but um, but it it
is very settling and yeah, foryou know, for a lot of reasons I
worked through a lot of thingswhen I was gone, your brain's
essentially in overdrive whenthat bilateral stimulation is
(29:36):
activated.
So the answer is walking, yeah,just only for a walk.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, it's great.
I had a new client come in, uh,last week and we always ask
about what, what tools youalready have in your toolbox,
and a lot of times people don'thave many.
That's why they're there andthat's okay.
But this person said that theyreally like to go for walks.
They're like I don't know whatit is, but it just really calms
me down and so I was like well,well, there's actually some
science there.
That's fascinating.
(30:01):
Like you said, a lot of peopleutilize that without even
knowing the science and like whyit's helpful, but it is.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Well, and in our podcast we're we're focusing on
building relationships andbuilding community, but having
self in a good place is criticalto to that and having that be
good for you.
Exactly, do you agree?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Absolutely.
You have to think about.
If you are not in a greatheadspace, you're probably
attracting people of a similarplace in life, you know, and so
you might be building community.
But once you are in a placethat's a little bit healthier
you've done some work, you'vedone some healing is that still
going to be an effective socialnetwork for you, right, if those
(30:46):
people have not also done thework that needs to happen versus
, you know, like we say, likehurt people attract hurt people,
right, and so so commiseratingshouldn't be a way of life,
right?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Something that could, can help get through something
right?
Not necessarily, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And sometimes that's what we need, right, sometimes
it is, sometimes that's what weneed.
Yeah, usually long term that'snot a super effective strategy,
because then you're just kind ofsitting in it, yeah, versus
taking the steps to get out ofit, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
So if we have try to surround ourselves with a, a
good group, that we are notnecessarily always rah-rah,
positive, but can be thatsounding board of realism,
sometimes also absolutely, youbenefit from that, yes I, yeah,
I am a big, uh advocate of likewe're not going to be toxically
positive and everything is greatall the time and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, also, that idea of like everything's great all
the time, it kind of shames youout of any time you have
negative feelings, yeah, and sowe have to allow ourselves to
feel those negative feelings.
But, yeah, I think the bestpeople in your life are people
who are going to challenge you,right, in ways that you need to
be challenged and not just goalong with everything and agree
with everything you say.
And so the raw, raw cheerleaderthey can be your cheerleader
(31:58):
when you need a cheerleader, butalso not, you know, super
negative who, right, they're notchallenging you in any ways in
terms of growth, right, you wantto be challenged to grow.
We should always be strivingfor growth.
Um and so if the people in yourlife aren't doing that, they're
maybe not super great for you.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, as we wrap up this episode and you're going to
come back because we're goingto also explore how to navigate
differences inside of the familyholiday table and what
friendships and things like thatcan do to help us with that but
as we wrap up, what are some ofthe recommendations you'd have
for our listeners about how tomanage self and take care of
self as they enter the holidayseason?
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I tell every single client, you know, when we have
that initial conversation aboutcoping skills, you're here and
you're doing a huge thing interms of self-care, yeah, and so
of course, this is my biasbecause I am a therapist.
But I'll say find a therapist.
If you don't have one, like,get established with, uh, you
know, that is one healthysupport that you can have.
That, you know, is there.
(32:58):
Yeah, um and so one I would say, you know, go find a therapist.
Yeah, um and uh.
Outside of that, I think, like Isaid, just checking in with
yourself, asking yourself, youknow, after a long week, asking
yourself, you know, am I goingto this dinner because I want to
go to this dinner and this isgoing to be good for me, or am I
(33:19):
going because I feel obligatedand I really am dreading it?
And if you're dreading it, it'sokay to decline.
Yeah, it's okay to say I don'thave it in me, yeah, and that's
another one of those things wefeel like we can't.
Oh, I committed to this.
Depending on the situation, youknow, sometimes it's okay to
say I have to take care of meright now, I can't give to
(33:41):
someone else.
I need a nap.
Thursday afternoon, says my napdate.
Thursday is my Friday, and soI'll always go home and take
like a two hour nap.
Yeah, because sometimes youjust need a nap.
Yeah, sometimes you doSometimes.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I like that Thank you so much for being here with us
today.
It's been delightful to talkwith you.
We are so excited about thenext episode where we explore
differences and how we can cometogether better and what makes
sense for us during that time.
But I know you've gone.
You've given some great, greatadvice for how to keep your
holidays Something that is is,but at the very least manageable
(34:15):
, but also more positive thanthan sometimes it can be.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Thank you guys for having me.
It's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Great seeing you.
The Four Bars podcast has beenbrought to you by Edges Inc.
A growth advisory firm based inBentonville, arkansas.
I founded the company in 2001.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Edges promotes growth , people, companies and ideas.
Our team collaboration tool,called Interface Methods, is a
basis for teams to work togethermore collaboratively,
understand each other and acceptdifferences and address
challenges together.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
We also started a nonprofit called Unform your
Bias.
We teach kids and their adultinfluencers how to utilize
storytelling as a means toreduce bias in the world.
We hope you'll check us out,subscribe to our podcast and
look at our website.
Welcome to the 4.
Speaker 2 (00:00):
Bars podcast.
I'm Ken Leith and I'm PattiLeith.
We're your hosts for somecompelling dialogue, encouraging
our listeners to strengthentheir connections and build
strong communities, lifting eachother up and connecting in ways
that matter.
We named the podcast 4 Bars asa reference to how hard we work
to find a 4 Bars connection onour devices.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
And we wondered what could happen with relationships
if we worked as hard atconnecting.
Let's find out.
Welcome back to the Four Barspodcast.
I'm your co-host, Ken Leith,along with my host.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I'm Patti Leith.
Welcome back.
It's great to be here today.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
And we are welcoming today with us Jessica Turner.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Hi, yeah, thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Thank you for being here.
Absolutely, we're going to havegood conversations today.
Today, we're going to beexploring holiday life and
relationships and how do we makeconnections during that and how
does that impact us on aregular basis.
So I think that's somethingwe're going to really get in.
But first I'd like to know alittle bit, Jessica, about your
background.
Share that with the audience,if you would.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Sure, yeah.
So, as we said, I'm a licensedtherapist.
I practice here locally inRogers, arkansas, so just down
the street from Bentonville, andI have been practicing for gosh
nine years I think that soundslike such a big number to say.
I work in individual settings,so one-on-one therapy, mostly
(01:20):
with adults, and I specialize intrauma.
So I work with a lot of complexPTSD people healing from, like
childhood traumas and, yeah, Ilove what I do.
It's really rewarding, yeah,yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
When I met Jessica, because she teaches a self care
Sunday at one of the placeswhere I'm a member and I love
going and just taking a coupleof hours or an hour and a half
on a Sunday morning and saying,hey, let's, let's just think and
be and present and be present.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
So yeah, absolutely yeah, and having heard a little
bit about that, one of mythoughts was kind of what was
your inspiration to createself-care Sundays?
Speaker 3 (02:01):
I do all my best thinking like late at night when
I'm supposed to be going to bed, um, I do all my best thinking
like late at night when I'msupposed to be going to bed, and
so just one night I had just ajust an aha moment of you know,
I think, because I was thinkingabout the programming and lake
street and they do so many greatevents around all sorts of
different topics, but a lot ofthemes around lake street are,
you know, wellness and um,taking care of herself in
(02:23):
various ways, um, and I.
So I was thinking about how canI bring what I do into a space
like that?
Because I felt like, you know,inherently my, my values match a
lot of the Blake's Tree valuesand, you know, therapy kind of
matches a lot of the Blake'sTree values, and so, and so I
just was thinking about, youknow, dedicating us time once a
(02:43):
month, one Sunday a month, foran hour or so, just having like
a time you can put on yourcalendar.
I'm going to focus on takingcare of myself.
We get so caught up in life dayto day and we it's much easier
to focus on other people's needsand take care of other people,
and we don't often take thattime for ourselves, and so I
live and die by my calendar.
(03:03):
So if it's on the calendar, I'mgoing to do it, and so it's
like this is a good way to, youknow, bring in some some time to
just focus on, on the self,yeah.
And so every month we pick adifferent type of self care
whether it's, you know,recreational, spiritual,
physical and we just focus on adifferent element of self care
wellness.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
And one of the biggest reasons we don't
self-care is we say, hey, wedon't have time exactly.
And so when, when I put this onmy calendar, I'm I'm really
careful to not say to myself, oh, I don't have time to do that
tomorrow, yeah, um, becausethat's the whole point of it.
So it's okay.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I talk to clients all the time, especially when they
are in under times of stress,self-care is the first thing to
go.
There is that idea of oh well,I don't have time for this, this
is something frivolous, this issomething I don't need, but it
really should be foundational.
I talk to people all the timeabout kind of.
The classic therapy metaphor isyou know, when you're on an
airplane and then something goeswrong, or the safety demo, they
(03:59):
tell you that you knowsomething goes wrong, the oxygen
masks will fall, and to putyour own mask on first.
And so we really have to putthat.
You know, or apply that ratherto our own lives.
And you got to put your ownmask on first.
You got to take care ofyourself before you can
effectively take care of otherpeople.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Yeah, so good points.
Absolutely, I think about thatpart too, where you got to take
care of yourself.
And now we're thinking aboutthe holidays.
We hear often that that's oneof the things that gets
sacrificed on the holidays.
Can you expand a?
Speaker 3 (04:32):
little bit about.
What do we think about thatparticular area?
Yeah, sure, and I think youknow the holidays are such a
hustle, bustle sort of timeoften.
You know, we've got all sortsof parties and work events and
family events, and I think wejust get so overwhelmed.
I remember last December therewasn't a day for like a two week
stretch where I had nothing onthe calendar.
(04:52):
Yeah, it was just it.
For whatever reason, they allthe events just lined up on that
same kind of two week and soweekdays included.
And so I remember being like Idon't have a second to just sit
on my couch.
And so going back to that ideaof like, oh well, I don't have
time to take care of myself, I'mso I've got something every
single day, so like I just Idon't have time for me.
And so I think, especiallybecause the holidays, you know,
(05:17):
they're focused around a lot oftimes like giving, and so with
that there's the sense that,well, I have to give everything
I have to other people.
You know, taking time for myselfis selfish.
I hear that a lot.
Well, if I do something formyself and I say no to this
person, I'm being selfish.
I'm like, well, what's wrongwith that?
Yeah, why is selfish a badthing?
We've become to know it as anegative thing, but it's not
(05:40):
selfish to take care of yourself.
And even if it were, if that'sselfish, do it Be selfish.
Be selfish.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Make some progress in life, Exactly, Set yourself up
for success so that you can bemore productive and effective in
these other areas and hopefullyhappier too, because it seems
like when we start sacrificingsomething that we're not doing
and maybe not overtly, but maybein the back it's like oh wow,
I'm having to go do this, soyou're not going to have the
(06:08):
full level of what I would callsatisfaction out of that, right,
because you're thinking I'mmissing out on my, my workout,
I'm missing out on these otherthings.
I should be doing things ofthat nature.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Absolutely it.
Really.
There has to be a mindsetswitch before there can really
be a behavior switch, because wehave to start thinking of rest
and that self care time as aproductive thing.
You know we think of if I'mgoing to spend the morning doing
nothing, if I'm going to spendthe morning, you know, just
taking time for me, we think ofthat as lazy, crazy we do, and
(06:46):
so then, as you're, you know,you could be laying on the couch
taking some much needed timefor yourself and you are, like
you said, you're thinking aboutall these things that you should
be doing.
So then that rest is notproductive.
Something I tell people a lot isyou know, when your phone dies,
when the battery dies, youcan't keep going.
You have to put it on thecharger before you it'll work
anymore, it's true, but we, ourbatteries, die and we just keep
going, going, going, and so youhave to put yourself on the
(07:08):
charger sometimes, whatever thatlooks like for you.
For some people that's sittingon the couch and binging some TV
.
For some people that's goingoutside and, like I, love to go
be in the mountains wherethere's no people whenever I
need to recharge, and that'sgreat for me.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
But it really is whatever works for you.
But, like I said, there has tobe that like mental shift first.
Yeah, to take time, to be ableto, yeah, and that there's
nothing wrong with it.
Exactly, I remember I've gottenbetter about taking my time,
but earlier in life and stillsometimes I'm go go, go, go go.
And I remember a friend comingover one Sunday afternoon when I
had decided that I was wayoverdue for a charge and being
embarrassed because I reallywasn't doing anything, I hadn't
(07:49):
put on any makeup.
And she's like oh, it's good tosee that you're joining the
rest of the world.
It's taking some time, somedowntime.
And I'm like, oh, yeah, maybe Ishould do more of that.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
You were going above and beyond, thinking it was
normal, and these other peopleare like Patti is doing the most
.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
But it can be very transformational One year but
but it can be very, uh,transformational.
Um, one year we did somethingwe've never thought of doing and
it was right up, uh, coming upto christmas and it's just like
we had been going that thatcycle for work for a long time
and then you know they're in theholidays on top of it and
probably, I don't know, maybe itwas like this, maybe around the
(08:29):
10th of the month, it's like Ijust need a break.
And we weren't going to begoing traveling that year to go,
uh, see our children here incolorado, stuff, and but what we
decided to do at the lastminute was like where could we
go that we could get to and fromwhenever you as far as there
and back at a reasonable lengthof travel and was cost effective
(08:52):
.
So we ended up going to Jamaicaon a spur of the moment kind of
scenario.
Again, we planned it maybe witha week's notice, went there and
we returned on Christmas EveAmazing, and it was pretty chill
and relaxed when we got back.
And you know, during that time,you know the typical thing we've
(09:12):
been at home doing our hustleand bustle, which we all
probably enjoy to his degree,and because I know I do, but
sure, but create that stressorsso they start to add up.
Here we were horseback riding,you know, we were walking up
falls.
We were just out in the in thewater and kayaking and just
doing all this stuff and nothaving to think about it and
(09:33):
just meeting other people whoare there kind of for the same
reason, I think probably thesame, yeah, same reason.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Well, and he suggested I was like all these
things that haven't been doneyet right for christmas and I
have to do them all, where Ihave to do them all, and and it
turned out it really was okaynot to do some of them and we
could do some of them from wherewe were, but it was.
It was an interesting, uh, youknow, kind of take on the
holidays and when I said yes, Ifelt like the main characters in
(10:02):
christmas with the cranks I wasjust.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
That was literally as you were describing.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was like it's like christmas, yeah, but without the
rushing home to deal with thekids all of a sudden because,
frankly, if they had decided tocome home, we would have been
out of luck.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
Yeah, oh yeah but, that would have been great too,
I'm sorry no, you're good.
Speaker 3 (10:22):
I was gonna say I think you bring up a good point
about all these things you haveto do yeah says who, yeah, says
everything to who right I thinkthat the who, that's always a
really interesting thing.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I we had a little bit of conversation about it's kind
of I think it's children in ourcountry and I mean this could
be everywhere, but I don'tnecessarily think it is
everywhere.
But there's a certain amountthat gets ingrained to us from
the commercial side.
You know the imagery, uh,whether it's the many, many um
christmas movies since we ourchildhood that we've seen,
(10:54):
hallmark cards, then holidayletters and the stuff that come
out.
There's a certain expectationof that life yep and um.
You know, for some people theywill remember some, but it's
almost like that.
You know, it's a wonderful lifekind of scenario where it's got
to be this just idealistic sortof what do you think drives
(11:15):
those expectations of ourselves?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
for for many of us, and there's probably more than
one thing sure, I think I thinkyou're right.
Speaker 3 (11:23):
I think a big part of it is just this kind of
societal expectation of whatthat should look like, and I
think from that, if you look atit, because if you watch these,
you know it's a maybe not it's awonderful life, cause it's not
very wonderful for so much of it.
I watched that movie for thefirst time and I was like this
is the saddest thing ever.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
A misnomer.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
It's not wonderful, but a lot of these Christmasmas
movies, you know, or when youthink about the idea of the
holidays or the idea ofchristmas, there's just this
sense of joy, right, the senseof happiness.
This is what it's supposed to,these are the feelings it's
supposed to bring out in you.
Yeah, and who doesn't want that?
Yes, right, and so we all wantthat sense of happiness and joy
and connection.
(12:06):
Um, I think the problem is whenwe are going based on kind of
those societal expectations andnot necessarily checking in with
does this work for me?
Right, you're trying to attainsomething that may not even be
good for you or may not berealistic for you.
We just have this sense of well, this is what it's supposed to
look like, right, and this, if Ido this thing, it's going to
(12:28):
bring like right and this, if Ido this thing, it's going to
bring me joy.
Yeah, yes, right.
And so if I go to all thesechristmas or holiday parties,
that's going to make me happy,because that's what you're
supposed to do and if it doesn'tmake me happy, that's wrong
with me.
Exactly, exactly, yeahsomething wrong with me.
Maybe it's just that you're anintrovert and going to all these
holiday parties is drainingyeah, that's simple, right,
that's okay.
Speaker 1 (12:48):
And to me, mine, I'm the person who's like oh,
another party.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yes, I get energy from that he has more, and we're
both pretty outgoing yes, youget a lot more energy after a
day with a lot of people bygoing out than I do, yeah sure,
um, I always joke that there's,you know, there's golden
retrievers in the world and thenthere's cats, and so a lot of
(13:12):
golden retriever activities makeme very exhausted, and I can,
you know, I like to do thosethings from time to time.
I'm a, I always say I'm like anextroverted introvert.
I need that socialization fromtime to time, but it wears me
out and so I have to go be a catand go be by myself and just
(13:32):
sit people and just be grumpyfor a while.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
After lots of golden retriever activities and I'm
similar we have a tool that weuse in our work where we help
people collaborate, and one ofthe things is whether or not a
person prefers to vet theirideas and build them from zero
to 60, internally or externally.
And I actually do thatexternally.
So my thinking, you know, walkwith me on this.
(13:53):
Sure, let's think out loudtogether.
And yet a lot of my personalitytesting over the years, I'll
come in with a little bit ofintroversion and you know, the
recommendation always is take alittle cave time, right, and so
I do that.
I get up before anybody else, Isit on the couch with my puppy
and a cup of coffee and a goodbook and and then I can kind of
recharge.
(14:13):
But he doesn't need that um,and so he's more extroverted and
has that external sure need toprocess.
Yeah, it's very interesting,yeah yeah, the battery's always.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
So I'm more like you extroverted, introvert yeah, I
would.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
When I was younger.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
I feel like I was shy and I don't feel shy today, but
um, that's probably learnedover the years I think that
that's a good point, because wecan shift, and we typically do
shift, and even you know, basedon the stressors you have in
life, like you may as whetherit's for better or worse but you
may withdraw a little morewhenever in a time of stress, or
(14:49):
you may be reaching out toothers more when you're in a
time of stress, and sometimesthat's in a healthy way.
Sometimes not so much, but,yeah, we, our needs shift
depending on what's happening inour lives, and so I think it's
important to just constantly bechecking in with yourself and
asking yourself is this actuallylike serving a purpose that's
good for me?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
yeah and I think um for many and I'd love and I
think um for many and I'd loveto get your perspective on this,
but for many um people, we dohave a tendency to detach a
little more during stress.
Um, is that good or bad, andwhat can you do about it?
Does it depend on the person?
Speaker 3 (15:22):
I think it depends on the person.
Um, and that's always the mostannoying answer, cause so many,
especially when we're dealingwith like psychology and the
human mind is so like persondependent.
I can say I tend to withdrawsocially in times of stress and
it's not always super healthyfor me, because I think it's the
(15:42):
reason it's person dependent isbecause we have to ask
ourselves what am I, am I trying, am I doing this to avoid or am
I doing this to?
You know, we have to rechargeExactly, we have to assess our
intentions, and that's alwayseasy to do because sometimes we
lose that like self awarenessbecause we're in a time of
stress and so cause I know whatI'm doing and I'm trying to just
(16:03):
detach from the world.
And it's not always a greatthing because I'm not always
actually spending that timeproductively recharging and
sometimes I'm just like in ahole.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Yeah, yeah, it makes sense.
Are there any methodologiesthat people can do and think
about during the holiday seasonthat helps them realize?
Oh, there are some things goingon within me and I need to kind
of evaluate that so I thinkalways having a baseline is
really helpful.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
So one of the first things I typically talk to
clients about when they're newand they come into the office is
let's establish some sort ofbaseline for where you are just
kind of day to day.
So whether that's by liketracking your mood there's tons
of apps that you can use forthat these days, where it's just
you pick the smiley face thatmatches how you're feeling.
That sort of thing, and it canbe something that simple Because
we have to increase ourawareness of ourselves.
(16:52):
A lot of times we're just kindof going through the motions day
to day and you're not takingthat time to really check in, so
you may not even really knowwhat is normal for you, right,
we've never actually taken thetime to assess, like what, where
is my mood day to day, day,because if you're more aware of
that, you're going to one you'reactively monitoring, right, and
(17:13):
so by doing that, you're goingto be more mindful of whenever
that starts to shift, becauseyou're taking that action to
actually check in.
And so I think, from there youknow, if you start noticing,
okay, there's some shiftshappening, and generally, I
think, when those shifts there,they tend to be a little more
negative, right, and so then youcan start pulling in that
(17:35):
toolbox of strategies, copingskills, things that you tend to
do to de-stress, whether that's,yeah, connecting with friends
or family or, you know, takingthat internal time to recharge,
whatever that looks like.
Yes, I think just having abetter sense of where you are
day to day, having that baseline, is really helpful.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
And I think, through the holiday stresses and an all
time high and sure copers can beboth positive and negative.
Absolutely, there's probablyaccess to more negative copers
during the holidays.
All the treats, all the treats,the food, there's so much.
You know the libations.
Yeah, yes, totally yeah.
Can you speak to that?
And what are some good checksfor us as we experience that
(18:16):
stress?
Because most of us, I think,can feel our stress level rising
and with that we feel ourselvesdoing the things like
disconnecting or you know.
So, as I'm realizing that, whatare some of the good strategies
to stay with positive copersrather than negative?
Speaker 3 (18:32):
I think something I always recommend to people is
like on your notes app on yourphone, pull it out and make a
list of all the things that tendto help you whenever you are
stressed, things that just makeyou feel better, and then from
there we can look at, okay, allthese things on this list, kind
of sussing out whether they'repositive or negative.
(18:52):
Generally, drinking as a copingskill is not a healthy thing,
right, generally, smokingcigarettes as a coping skill is
not a healthy thing.
So, there's some easy kind ofred flags there that you can
look for, but I think anythingice cream at midnight, right I
think anything can be a copingskill.
It's so much fun.
Yes, come on.
I always say it's like my dirtyraccoon time when I go in the
(19:15):
middle of the night in thepantry and I just grab some
random snacks that don't gotogether at all and I'm just
like this is my dirty raccoontime.
It's not a healthy thingnecessarily, but you know,
sometimes you have to just dowhat you got to do.
Sometimes I think anything.
I tell people all the time Ithink anything can be a coping
skill.
It's just a matter of is thisactually working for me?
(19:37):
Or is this something that youknow, my therapist taught me and
it doesn't actually work for me, because that's okay too.
Not everything is going to besuper effective.
But going circling back to thatkind of checking in with
yourself a lot of times.
If you're monitoring your moodday to day and you're kind of
keeping track of that, um, youcan also be keeping track of.
Okay, I tried this deepbreathing technique, for example
(19:58):
, and I was able to see, oh, itdid help right right my stress
levels decreased from that.
Um.
Or you can see, okay, I triedthat deep breathing technique.
It didn't really work so much,and then we can explore.
It is maybe that's just not agreat skill for you, or maybe
there's something about thatmethod specifically, and then we
can reevaluate from there.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
One year I did some evaluative work on my own stress
, because I that's somethingI've had to work on my whole
life is just keeping that incontrol, and one of the things
that I realized is that when Iwas staying well hydrated and
eating well and sleeping well,all the indicators of stress
were less.
Yeah Right, and so getting intothat good routine is also
(20:37):
something that's a that's agreat point.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
There's something called Maslow's hierarchy of
needs, and it's a psychologicaltheory that basically says you
cannot reach.
It's a pyramid that's gotdifferent layers and basically
you can't reach the top, whichis self-actualization, which is
a person reaching their fullpotential.
But according to maslow, youcan't reach that top layer until
every layer underneath has beenmet, and so the very bottom
(20:59):
layer is safety and security,and so it's as simple as food,
water, warmth, rest.
Yeah, and something I talk toclients constantly about is that
rest, because like 80 percentof the time we can chalk up, you
know, a mood situation,whatever, a shift down to like
how's your sleep?
Are you getting good,consistent, quality sleep?
(21:20):
Because if you're not, so muchof your day is just trying to
keep up.
You're tired and so you'refocused on how tired you are,
you can't make the the goal ormeet the goals that you want,
because your basic needs aren'tbeing right.
Right, yeah, yeah, a lot ofthis stuff is really really
simple.
Sometimes it is just a matterof what are you eating?
(21:41):
Are you eating nutrient-richfood that is actually giving
your body the, the, the powerthat it needs to do what it
needs to do?
Right, yeah, what's your sleep?
Look like.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, yeah, those were important.
Hydration for me was also a bigyou know thing and I monitored
several aspects of my stress andit was like a little study that
I did trying to figure out youknow what.
What are the things that I cando that really impact stress
without me having to think aboutit?
Sure, right, and staying wellrested and well fed and well
(22:13):
hydrated.
Yeah, and two.
You know three of those thingsit truly is.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
That's in there sometimes.
Speaker 1 (22:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, secret yeah, I think if you
think about that, I mean I lookat that and go.
I always look at where's thesimilarity things.
I've always considered thehuman body to be really it's the
model for machines.
Sure, in the world you know,there's cooling systems,
filtration systems, you needfuel, uh all these things that
(22:37):
you need to have there.
So when you talk about that, Imean and water is an important
component water keeps uh, it'spart of our cleansing filter
problem, is part of us beingable to cool within everything,
keep our body regulated andstuff of that nature.
But your point, sometimes,again, water is one of the
things I know.
For years I did I was very poorat.
(22:59):
I've gotten much better at that.
Probably will never be as goodas patty on that but I haven't
always been good.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
and then I've had a significant change about 15
years ago and it's been a goodchange for me.
But when I get busy I'm like oh.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
It's one of the easiest things to neglect.
Yeah, it is Nothing as simpleas drinking water is one of the.
I mean, what's the statisticLike?
Over 80% of the population isconstantly dehydrated or
something like that yeah, um andso yeah, it shows just how easy
it is to neglect that areainteresting and agreed and as we
, as we bounce towards theholidays, a lot of the stress
(23:34):
can can be can be counteractedif you take time to keep your
healthy habits absolutely.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
Exercise is another one that I have gotten a lot of
energy from, yeah, the years.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, developing those habits before the holidays
and then sticking to them asbest as you can through.
So giving yourself some gracewhenever we do have slip-ups,
because I think that's somethingpeople are so hard on ourselves
.
You know you're trying to stickto whatever nutrition plan and
over the holidays there's treatseverywhere people have treats
and then they beat themselves upover it.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
You're adding to your stress yeah, yeah yeah, eat the
treats and move along, okay, umwhat happens to the, the brain,
the body when we spend timewhere we are beating ourselves
up versus kind of just move onto the next thing, whether we
did something wrong, whether wetook that treat, whatever,
whatever it may be.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
You have to think about the script that you have
for yourself in your head, and alot of times the scripts that
we have for ourselves in ourheads they're not actually our
words.
They're words that we havemaybe been told for a long time
and we have adapted or adoptedrather, those words, and so I
tell people sometimes.
I'm like write down thosethoughts that you have about
(24:48):
yourself and then read thosethings out loud you would never
say those things to anotherperson.
Why are you saying them toyourself?
Yeah right, it does.
It creates this negativenarrative and then you're less
likely to take care of yourselfbecause you're telling yourself
that all of these negativethings, and so you're telling
yourself you're not worth takingcare of yeah, right, yes,
because you have all of thisnegative framework yeah explore
(25:11):
a little bit the impact thatgrief or trauma has on our
holiday experience and why wemay struggle or some of us may
struggle at times to really getinto that happy vibe that we
think we should sure, sure,absolutely.
Speaker 2 (25:25):
I think that's a big, that's a big challenge.
It is.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
I talk to people a lot as they're navigating grief
about.
You know, the hardest partsfollowing grief Um, there's
usually going to be two reallyhard days or two really hard um
periods of time, like every yearas you grieve, and that's
usually the birthday oranniversary of passing of the
person, or the holidays, right,those tend to always be a little
(25:49):
more difficult.
Um, because often when it'srelated to grief, we're focusing
on the, the absence of thatperson, right, and so it's
supposed to be I'm using airquotes there.
It's supposed to be this timeof, you know, family and unity
and connection.
And if that's not your reality,back to what you were saying
(26:10):
about, oh, what's wrong with meright now?
Why don't I have these things?
And so that impacts our abilityto be able to enjoy the
holidays.
A lot of people have a lot ofdread leading up to the holidays
, as much as it can be thishappy, joyous, wonderful time.
For a lot of people, it's notbecause they're already starting
to focus on their lack of whatthey're supposed to have.
(26:31):
And when it comes to trauma,similar things, depending on the
circumstances of the trauma,right.
The holidays maybe a reminder,maybe you have to be around
people that have caused youtrauma right, and so that's
another layer that can be reallydifficult to navigate with
people Cause, a lot of times,people, only people that are
estranged from their families.
They maybe only really see themat the holidays out of a sense
(26:53):
of obligation.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
Are there things that the people who who are
triggered in some way by theholidays either I'm missing a
loved one or I have to be aroundsomeone who caused me pain, or
I remember that pain because ofsome holiday memory Are there
things that you can encouragepeople to keep in mind as they?
Speaker 3 (27:14):
feel those things I often have, like we'll establish
a game plan with the client,but, you know, leading into the
holidays, because so many peoplereally struggle through the
holidays for all the reasons youmentioned and so sometimes and
again it's one of those likedepends on the person, but
sometimes that strategy is don'tgo visit your family, yeah.
(27:35):
Yeah, right can be, becausesometimes we're only doing that
for the other person and it'scausing ourselves all of this
distress.
Why are you doing it?
What's going to happen if youdon't?
You know you might have alittle more peace just by not
yeah, and so sometimes it's that, sometimes it's you know we're
going to go for a walk whenthings start to get heated or
(27:57):
when things start to get alittle intense.
I'm going for walks is a really,really simple but really
effective coping skill that wecan all implement whenever and
activate something calledbilateral stimulation, so just
the rhythm of your feet hittingthe pavement.
Basically it activates bothsides of the brain, which
doesn't happen and really in anyother situation outside of like
(28:21):
REM sleep, and so both sides ofyour brain are firing at the
same time, and so your fullbrain is activated and is able
to deal with things a little bitbetter.
And so interesting I talk topeople a lot about, you know, go
for a walk, no music, just bewith your thoughts and let your
brain process, like your fullbrain process.
That.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, and the dog will thank you as well.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
And it's a good physical movement.
You know it's going to get someendorphins flowing.
Yeah, happy hormones, so yeah Ithink about that.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Throughout the years we I think we both have utilized
that unknowingly, uh, becauseyou know, going for long runs
when times are stressful, it'sthat nature absolutely you'll
often hear people describerunning as therapy, and while I
absolutely will not agree withthat, running is a torture.
Speaker 3 (29:10):
I understand the science behind why people feel
that way, because it can getvery meditative and you're in
your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
Yes you work through.
I ran for many, many years andthen ran into some physical
injuries that have kept.
Well, it's better if I don'trun I still do but um, but it it
is very settling and yeah, foryou know, for a lot of reasons I
worked through a lot of thingswhen I was gone, your brain's
essentially in overdrive whenthat bilateral stimulation is
(29:36):
activated.
So the answer is walking, yeah,just only for a walk.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, it's great.
I had a new client come in, uh,last week and we always ask
about what, what tools youalready have in your toolbox,
and a lot of times people don'thave many.
That's why they're there andthat's okay.
But this person said that theyreally like to go for walks.
They're like I don't know whatit is, but it just really calms
me down and so I was like well,well, there's actually some
science there.
That's fascinating.
(30:01):
Like you said, a lot of peopleutilize that without even
knowing the science and like whyit's helpful, but it is.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Well, and in our podcast we're we're focusing on
building relationships andbuilding community, but having
self in a good place is criticalto to that and having that be
good for you.
Exactly, do you agree?
Speaker 3 (30:25):
Absolutely.
You have to think about.
If you are not in a greatheadspace, you're probably
attracting people of a similarplace in life, you know, and so
you might be building community.
But once you are in a placethat's a little bit healthier
you've done some work, you'vedone some healing is that still
going to be an effective socialnetwork for you, right, if those
(30:46):
people have not also done thework that needs to happen versus
, you know, like we say, likehurt people attract hurt people,
right, and so so commiseratingshouldn't be a way of life,
right?
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Something that could, can help get through something
right?
Not necessarily, yeah.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
And sometimes that's what we need, right, sometimes
it is, sometimes that's what weneed.
Yeah, usually long term that'snot a super effective strategy,
because then you're just kind ofsitting in it, yeah, versus
taking the steps to get out ofit, right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
So if we have try to surround ourselves with a, a
good group, that we are notnecessarily always rah-rah,
positive, but can be thatsounding board of realism,
sometimes also absolutely, youbenefit from that, yes I, yeah,
I am a big, uh advocate of likewe're not going to be toxically
positive and everything is greatall the time and that's okay.
Speaker 3 (31:36):
Yeah, also, that idea of like everything's great all
the time, it kind of shames youout of any time you have
negative feelings, yeah, and sowe have to allow ourselves to
feel those negative feelings.
But, yeah, I think the bestpeople in your life are people
who are going to challenge you,right, in ways that you need to
be challenged and not just goalong with everything and agree
with everything you say.
And so the raw, raw cheerleaderthey can be your cheerleader
(31:58):
when you need a cheerleader, butalso not, you know, super
negative who, right, they're notchallenging you in any ways in
terms of growth, right, you wantto be challenged to grow.
We should always be strivingfor growth.
Um and so if the people in yourlife aren't doing that, they're
maybe not super great for you.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Well, as we wrap up this episode and you're going to
come back because we're goingto also explore how to navigate
differences inside of the familyholiday table and what
friendships and things like thatcan do to help us with that but
as we wrap up, what are some ofthe recommendations you'd have
for our listeners about how tomanage self and take care of
self as they enter the holidayseason?
Speaker 3 (32:38):
I tell every single client, you know, when we have
that initial conversation aboutcoping skills, you're here and
you're doing a huge thing interms of self-care, yeah, and so
of course, this is my biasbecause I am a therapist.
But I'll say find a therapist.
If you don't have one, like,get established with, uh, you
know, that is one healthysupport that you can have.
That, you know, is there.
(32:58):
Yeah, um and so one I would say, you know, go find a therapist.
Yeah, um and uh.
Outside of that, I think, like Isaid, just checking in with
yourself, asking yourself, youknow, after a long week, asking
yourself, you know, am I goingto this dinner because I want to
go to this dinner and this isgoing to be good for me, or am I
(33:19):
going because I feel obligatedand I really am dreading it?
And if you're dreading it, it'sokay to decline.
Yeah, it's okay to say I don'thave it in me, yeah, and that's
another one of those things wefeel like we can't.
Oh, I committed to this.
Depending on the situation, youknow, sometimes it's okay to
say I have to take care of meright now, I can't give to
(33:41):
someone else.
I need a nap.
Thursday afternoon, says my napdate.
Thursday is my Friday, and soI'll always go home and take
like a two hour nap.
Yeah, because sometimes youjust need a nap.
Yeah, sometimes you doSometimes.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
I like that Thank you so much for being here with us
today.
It's been delightful to talkwith you.
We are so excited about thenext episode where we explore
differences and how we can cometogether better and what makes
sense for us during that time.
But I know you've gone.
You've given some great, greatadvice for how to keep your
holidays Something that is is,but at the very least manageable
(34:15):
, but also more positive thanthan sometimes it can be.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3 (34:20):
Thank you guys for having me.
It's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Great seeing you.
The Four Bars podcast has beenbrought to you by Edges Inc.
A growth advisory firm based inBentonville, arkansas.
I founded the company in 2001.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Edges promotes growth , people, companies and ideas.
Our team collaboration tool,called Interface Methods, is a
basis for teams to work togethermore collaboratively,
understand each other and acceptdifferences and address
challenges together.
Speaker 2 (34:44):
We also started a nonprofit called Unform your
Bias.
We teach kids and their adultinfluencers how to utilize
storytelling as a means toreduce bias in the world.
We hope you'll check us out,subscribe to our podcast and
look at our website.
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