August 21, 2025 • 30 mins
What happens when you veer from the expected career path and embrace the unexpected turns life offers? Lela Davidson, Chief Operating Officer of Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art and the Momentary, joins Ken and Patti Leith to share her refreshingly honest journey through the professional landscape.
Davidson describes her career as "squiggly" rather than linear—starting as a CPA before moving through media, e-commerce, retail, and advertising before landing at one of America's premier art institutions. Far from seeing these transitions as setbacks, she frames them as opportunities that have culminated in meaningful community impact. Her story challenges us to reconsider how we view career progression and professional identity.
The conversation delves into a crucial leadership evolution that many professionals experience but few articulate so clearly. Davidson shares how she transformed from "being in the bush with a machete, hacking down whatever was in our path" to building sustainable infrastructure for others to succeed. This metaphor brilliantly captures the shift from individual contributor to truly strategic leader.
Throughout the discussion, Davidson offers wisdom on creating genuine feedback cultures, the power of community connections in Northwest Arkansas, and embracing failure as an inevitable part of growth. Her candid advice—"make your plans but don't worry about them too much"—serves as both permission and encouragement for those navigating their own career uncertainties.
Whether you're contemplating a career pivot, stepping into leadership, or simply seeking to build meaningful connections in your community, this conversation offers practical insights delivered with warmth and authenticity. As Davidson reminds us, "The only way you fail is if you stop trying."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lela (00:00):
You know people that I've known, networks that I've been a
part of, things I'vecontributed to.
You know I'm a big.
I'm very involved with NextUplocally and that is a group of.
I've always been involved withgroups of women especially.
Ken (00:17):
Welcome to the 4 Bars podcast.
Patti (00:19):
I'm Patti Leith, we're your hosts for some compelling
dialogue, encouraging ourlisteners to strengthen their
connections and build strongcommunities, lifting each other
up and connecting in ways thatmatter.
We named the podcast Four Barsas a reference to how hard we
work to find a Four Barsconnection on our devices.
Ken (00:37):
And we wondered what could happen with relationships if we
worked as hard at connecting.
Patti (00:41):
Let's find out.
Ken (00:43):
Welcome to this week's episode of Four Bars Podcast.
I'm one of your co-hosts, KenLeith.
Patti (00:47):
And I'm Patti Leith.
Welcome back.
Ken (00:49):
Yes, and we are very excited this week to have with
us Leila Davidson.
Leila is the Chief OperatingOfficer of the Crystal Bridges
Museum of American Art and theMomentary Welcome, Leila.
Lela (01:01):
Great to have you here.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate this.
Patti (01:04):
Yes, well, you are going to be doing a couple of episodes
with us, and we're very excitedabout that.
I know people are probablyreally interested in your
journey, how you ended up whereyou are today, and so I'll just
open with tell us a little bitabout yourself and then we'll
dig deeper into your journey.
Lela (01:24):
Okay, open with tell us a little bit about yourself and
then we'll dig deeper into yourjourney.
Okay, well, my journey to whereI am today professionally is I
always say it's been a squigglycareer path.
So it's very squiggly justreally taking advantage of, you
know, the opportunities thathave been placed in my path.
And so I started as a CPA, wentto school, thought that that
was what I would do forever, andit didn't work out that way.
(01:47):
So I've gotten to work in a lotof different spaces, from, you
know, the financial space tomedia and e-commerce and retail
and advertising, and it's justall really feels like it's
culminated in this opportunityto contribute back to the
community in this incredibleinstitution and Crystal Bridges.
(02:08):
In the momentary, but I wouldsay the biggest thing for me has
been the openness to do thingsthat were not necessarily a part
of my plan, whether that's inleadership of myself or
leadership of others.
That's just been.
I've been really fortunate andlucky and also, I would say,
(02:30):
prepared and willing to step outon a limb and try new things
Very cool.
Patti (02:36):
Well, we're going to dig a little bit deeper into that.
You are here in the BentonvilleArkansas area.
How long have you been?
Lela (02:45):
here.
I've been here 21 years, okay.
Patti (02:47):
I've been here a long time as well.
Seen a lot right.
Lela (02:50):
We have seen a lot of change.
Patti (02:51):
For sure, for sure.
Well, so, as you were startingout your career in accounting,
what were some of the thingsthat made you consider looking
at, or or pivoting to, otherroles?
Lela (03:07):
For me it's always just been, you know, whatever the
life and family circumstanceswere, and so you know, as I was
starting to have a family almost30 years ago, I you know it's
things were a little differentthan they are today, and so we
took whatever opportunities madesense for both of our careers.
My husband and myself we'vebeen married for 32 years and
(03:31):
you know things have changedover that time, and so I would
say a lot of my choices werebased on what was the best for
our overall family unit at thetime, the opportunities that we
both had, and I was definitelyopen to whatever I could do.
I think I would say, as youknow, kids coming out of school
(03:52):
today, accounting or anythingthat's that technical of a field
can never serve you wrong, likewhether it's data science or
you know many other options.
Today that was something thathas come with me.
And so, even though I've pivotedinto these different areas,
I've never left that originalfoundational financial education
(04:16):
behind.
I mean, it has served meincredibly well and it's
actually come full circle.
I think a lot of in this roletoday what I do is a lot of it
is financially based.
Even though I sort of tried toget away from it, it always
comes back.
Patti (04:31):
It always comes back because you have that foundation
.
But in the years, or probablymonths really, that I've come to
get to know you better, I dothink there is a part of you
that seeks innovation andcreativity and things that are
different, that you may not havehad that opportunity to do.
Lela (04:48):
Yeah, I think I really just get bored easily, Patty,
and so you have to make yournatural traits work for you
right?
Yes, you do so.
You know, once I've masteredsomething, I'm really ready to
move on, and not to say that,you know, the accounting world
was, you know, not innovative atthe time, but there was
(05:08):
definitely a feeling of this issomething that you understand
now, and how else can you applythis Right?
Patti (05:16):
right, right, and I think there are a lot of innovations
in accounting.
I think what, what I've come tosee about you is that you
really do like trying new things.
Right, I do like trying newthings.
That's awesome.
Ken (05:28):
Now I should say I mean, I hear people talk about, you know
, the excitement of trying newthings in their career.
Sometimes there's a hesitancyof people to do that.
What do you think has kind ofbeen your impetus for saying,
yeah, I will take on newchallenges and try different
things, versus staying where I'mcomfortable all the time?
Lela (05:48):
I think for me it's a little bit of that fear of
missing out.
So I think about making theleap to Crystal Bridges, which
you know it was a big riskbecause I was in a role that I
could have continued in thatrole for quite some time, you
know, working at one of thelargest communications and
(06:09):
creative agencies in the world.
That's very successful.
And to leave that to dosomething that was very unknown,
I think a lot of my motivationwas just I was I knew that if I
saw someone else doing that work, that wasn't me because I would
have, if I was afraid to makethe leap, I knew that I would
(06:30):
kick myself in a year if I sawsomeone because I knew that
someone else I knew would getthe role and I would have to
watch them have all the fun.
And so it's a little bit of Iguess it's fear of missing out
I'm not sure what it is or justa little bit of insanity, that
not just being satisfied torelax, yeah it definitely sounds
(06:51):
like it keeps it very fresh andexciting.
Ken (06:53):
That's for sure.
And you mentioned, you knowyou've been married for 32 years
and family, so within yourfamily structure there sounds
like there's good support forseeking new opportunities.
Lela (07:05):
Yeah, I think we really support each other.
I mean, my husband and I havebeen.
You know, you don't make itthis long, as you know, without,
uh, good communication, goodalignment of values, um,
supporting what each other wantsto do, even though you don't
know what that is when you signup together in the beginning,
(07:26):
when you're babies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's greatWe've we've had a, we've had a
good, a good time following eachother.
Patti (07:34):
One of the things that I think people who know you know
about you is that you have ahuge passion for community.
Tell us about how you came tohave that and why that's really
important to you.
Tell us about how you came tohave that and why that's really
important to you.
Lela (07:46):
I've had a lot of opportunities and a lot of those
opportunities have been outsideof my family circle and just
being part of nurturingcommunities is something that I
didn't realize when I wasyounger how much that really
boosts you in life.
And, honestly, I've really beenlucky to make friends with a
(08:12):
group of primarily women thathave had that foundation in
community building and communitycontribution, and so I've
really learned a lot of thatfrom my friends and I also would
say just being part of thatfrom my friends and also, I'd
say, just being part ofNorthwest Arkansas for the last
year two decades and seeing howthis community has come together
(08:34):
uniquely.
You know I've lived in somephilanthropic places before, but
nothing that comes close towhat this area does, and so I
think that has shaped me a lot,I mean in my later adult life
here.
Patti (08:47):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's amazing.
As you grew in your career andmade your leadership, you move
into leadership.
Talk to us about that.
What were some of the thingsthat you learned along the way?
Lela (09:04):
I think that it's a there's a couple of tricky
transition moments, moving from,say, being an individual
contributor to being a manager,to being a leader of more people
, because in the beginning we'reyoung and we're all trying to
perform right, and then you haveto shift, you have to take a
(09:28):
different perspective on whatperformance means.
So I think that was for me abig intersection and
understanding how to be ofservice to someone else who's
now in that position of they areonly focused on performing.
And then you know, if you'resuccessful in that, in leading
(09:48):
one or more people, then youknow you end up with more
responsibility usually.
But that and then it changesbecause instead of you know, I
think in the beginning leadingpeople, it was about clearing a
path for those people.
Now I see it a little more oflike building the infrastructure
.
I remember being in a roleseveral years ago, more than 10
(10:13):
years ago, and I could alwayspicture myself as like in the
bush, like with a machete, justlike hacking down whatever was
in our path.
And I feel like now it's morelike okay, I got to build a
bridge or a highway or somethinglike how can we?
You know there's there's moreresponsibility there.
That just a path through thethrough.
(10:34):
The bush isn't going to do it.
Patti (10:36):
Yes, so changing the infrastructure so that you don't
have to keep chopping down thethings that are growing.
Lela (10:40):
Yeah, exactly, and those are.
I think those are someintersections that are really
critical.
That is where I see peoplemaybe don't want to shift their
perspective in that way and theymight get stuck either as an
individual contributor or as ayou know, a manager role with a
smaller contribution than theymaybe could have.
Ken (11:04):
I think you articulated really, really well the fact
that you know where, in upperleadership, your shift is over
now.
Infrastructure and creating theinfrastructure for success, for
growth, if you would.
We look at it and we talk tofolks and different clients and
we'll start out with that.
Generally, we'll go into anorganization as the individual
contributor, front-line person,going to do a great job and
(11:25):
deliver, and then next thing youknow we are.
If we do a good job, we'regiven an opportunity to manage,
and now we're managing one ormore people, as you said.
Ultimately then we start tomanage other leaders and
ultimately we stop looking atthe day-to-day business.
And it's more that, as you said, that infrastructure
(11:54):
no-transcript.
It's very similar, thatstructure of how you do it and
understanding the differences inwhat my responsibilities are,
understanding the differences inwhat my responsibilities are.
But once you start leading eventhe first level, our
responsibility shifts over tothat person to help them get
their job done, and it alwaysremains that.
Lela (12:12):
Yeah, and that's the hardest shift, and I think a lot
of organizations don't do agreat job in preparing people to
make that initial shift,because becoming a manager of
someone else for the first timeis it's just a huge
responsibility and I think inmost organizations we just
expect that it's just going toorganically happen and it
(12:35):
doesn't.
Patti (12:36):
Yeah, and it's.
It's similar to parenting insome respects, not that not that
you're parenting your kids inmanagement, but just that there
are so many things that canoccur and so many experiences
that leave a lasting impressionand there's no handbook, right?
So you have to do the best thatyou can do and learn from it as
you go, and I think I don'trecall the stat.
Lela (12:58):
Maybe we can look it up, but it's some huge amount of
your personal satisfaction thatis determined by your direct
supervisor at work, and so youknow that's a huge
responsibility.
Patti (13:11):
It really is it really is .
It is about it.
And, as you're describing yourleadership journey, I'm thinking
of some research we've done ongenerations, where we there are
extreme generational differencesbased on how we were brought up
and our level of access totechnology and that type of
(13:32):
thing, and at the end of the day, we all want out of life what
we didn't get when we were 10.
And that changes across thegenerations.
But one of the things that wealso experienced in our research
is that there are some thingsthat are just going to always be
the same in your 20s and your30s and your 40s as you're
building your career, and thatit was the same today, right, 50
(13:55):
years ago, right, and we callit my mother hates my music, the
research.
I love that.
So you know, there are justsome things that are different
between 20s when you are tryingto show that you can't do
anything, and in your 40s and50s when you actually have the
opportunity to do those thingsyou have to work through.
(14:16):
You know what are your personalfoundations and values.
Tell us about your leadershipfoundations and values.
What do you think is importantwhen leading about your?
Lela (14:25):
leadership, foundations and values.
What do you think is importantwhen leading For me?
I love putting systems in place.
I thrive on growth, which wetalked about.
You know.
Change to me is growth creatingclarity.
I like for things to be veryorderly in my personal life and
you know that's what I bring.
I think that's one of the mytop value proposition is like
(14:48):
really pulling order, notnecessarily that there has to be
chaos, but often that's uh,some of the environments that I
find myself in is is bringingthat order.
And then, you know, learningand taking those learnings from
one area of creating order toanother area to create order.
But I really I like my doorsalways open.
(15:11):
My, you know my teams can tellme anything.
I try to.
I try to seek out feedback sothat my teams will know that I'm
open to their feedback.
I try to get to know people ona, you know, individual level.
It's tricky sometimes when youhave any size of team really,
(15:32):
because you have to lead eachindividual and you have to lead
a team to get things donetogether.
So you know, I wasn't a sportgirl in school so I can speak in
the business sports metaphors,but I didn't get that imprinted
on me at a young age of thatwhole teamwork foundation.
(15:54):
So that's something that Iactually have learned in the
professional world.
So it's been good.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Ken (16:03):
Yeah, and what you talked about there a little bit is the
fact that seeking out input andfeedback from others within the
team that's one of the mostincredible empowerment things we
see in organizations is whenleaders are open to not thinking
I have to.
Just because I'm a leader, Ihave a title, that doesn't mean
I have to make all the decisionson my own.
In fact, I'm missing out onopportunities if I don't talk to
(16:26):
people within my structure andbeyond, and it may be people who
are on the front lines whoreally know what's going on and
understanding that from themthat we find is really really
critical.
Those conversations are reallycrucial to employee satisfaction
.
Lela (16:41):
And when they are lacking.
Ken (16:44):
It seems like they are really don't, or are more out
there in the wilderness, so tospeak, and not sure of the
foundation that they're tryingto navigate.
If they don't get that fromtheir leader, how did you see
that play out at any point intime in your career?
Lela (16:59):
Well, I think you know absolutely, the frontline knows
what is happening.
You know absolutely, thefrontline knows what is
happening.
So now there's often tensionbetween you know whatever
directives are coming down fromdifferent stakeholders, but the
frontline should feel welcome totell you what, what the reality
(17:20):
is.
The challenge, I think, is andthis is something that I have to
remind myself constantly is,while I see myself as very
approachable and my door isalways open and you can tell me
anything, you know because youhave a certain title or you're
in a certain role, you reallyhave to go out of your way to
(17:40):
make people feel comfortablethat they, you know, can tell
you something that you may notwant to hear.
And so where I've seen it workwell is when leaders are very
intentional about making itknown that they want that kind
of feedback and they want tohear the bad news, not just the
good news.
Where I've seen it not go wellis when there are sort of
(18:05):
performative gestures that areintended to appear to be seeking
feedback, but then thatfeedback's not acted on and that
can be more damaging than notseeking the feedback Absolutely.
It's a tough one.
I have a strong personality.
(18:25):
I'm a direct communicator.
I have a strong personality,I'm a direct communicator, I
have very high standards, and Ialso have to continually remind
myself that not everyone feelscomfortable just coming up to me
and telling me something that Imight not want to hear, even
though I'm fine when I hear it,and I think people, once they
(18:46):
have that experience with me,they understand it.
But it's, it's a very importantaspect as a leader, at least
for me.
Maybe it's just my weak point.
Patti (18:56):
I think it's a strength, for sure, for sure, and I also
think that, as you're, you know,as you're, as you're speaking
about this, one of the thingsthat keeps people from doing it
is not necessarily the leaderthemselves or how they project
themselves, but just the powerof the position.
So they can do that as long asthere's an openness to doing
that.
Don't let the fear be thereason that you don't do it.
Lela (19:32):
Yeah, of course, that openness too.
100%.
You have to be brave, yeah.
Patti (19:37):
I always tell people if there's something that isn't
going the way that you thinkthat it should be going, you can
put up with it until you can'tanymore, you can leave or you
can try to change it.
And that is the better of thethree is to try to change it,
because everybody benefits fromit.
Lela (19:54):
Right.
It's so much more satisfyingand I remember being young and
having a manager that I justfervently disagreed with on a
certain point and you knowpsyching myself up and and going
in and having this toughconversation and you know, after
that we were just great, likehe did want to hear it and I did
need to get it off my chest.
(20:15):
I can't imagine if I would haveheld that in.
I wouldn't have been able tostay with the organization.
Patti (20:19):
So yeah, yeah.
So that's great.
That's great.
Now I know just from knowingyou you really put a lot of
emphasis into connections andnetworking.
And can you speak to that alittle bit and how, how you do
that, why you think that'simportant?
Lela (20:38):
It comes naturally for me, but every opportunity I've had
has been through.
You know people that I've known, networks that I've been a part
of, things I've contributed to.
You know I'm a big.
I'm very involved with NextUplocally and that is a group of.
(20:58):
I've always been involved withgroups of women especially, and
I think it's just healthy.
As human beings, I mean, we'rebuilt for connection right, and
so of course, in yourprofessional life it's not going
to be any different and youjust never know who you're going
to meet.
(21:19):
You know what kind of oddconnection you might have that
you would never be able to planfor.
So you know, and for me too,it's just part of that change
and keeping things fresh anddynamic.
And while I have a very coregroup of friends and social
connections, you know there'salways, there's always more.
(21:40):
You know this community isthriving and growing and I just
can't imagine not being part ofall these different circles.
Yeah, as part of what I am,yeah, and it's.
Patti (21:50):
It's a big part of of of maintaining a positivity in our
own lives.
Is this, this community andconnection and networking and
the willingness to step out anddo that right?
Ken (22:03):
yeah, absolutely yeah, I think the other thing is that
you know we're talking about alot about work situations, but
it conveys over to your pointtoo, into our personal lives.
And what do we do Well, at work?
We are connecting stuff we getin our personal life, we're
connecting and ultimately we'reconnecting our community and
connecting to our community andcoming from predominantly large
(22:24):
cities until I moved here 16years ago or now went on 19
years, 19.
It was something that in biggercities you still have
connections, but it was.
You have to be more intentional.
But, like when I got here and Iarrived here, it's like you
can't go out and not connectwith someone almost and it's a
different kind of openingconversation is what I would say
(22:46):
.
And when we would go out, maybeafter work, have dinner or
something almost always we canmeet someone new and strike up a
conversation.
And the next thing you knowyou're talking about doing
things connecting here have youtried this or something this
year?
And then that person now comesinto your circle of friends,
(23:06):
right, and that circle justkeeps expanding here in a very
positive way, I would say.
Mostly everything I've had is ahard experience here.
It's been very positive thatyou can build upon and build,
whether it's for I'm doing it tonetwork or I'm doing it for
friendships, I'm doing itbecause I want to be a bigger
part of the community.
It all exists here in NorthwestArkansas.
Lela (23:25):
Yeah, this is.
I mean, you can't beat thiscommunity.
Yeah, and people who are cominghere?
You know it attracts people whowant that kind of connection,
want a certain lifestyle, andyou know, of course, you're
going to meet great people whenyou get out in this community,
could you not Right?
Patti (23:42):
Yeah, that's amazing Now as you think about your past
stories and things that havereally been formative, that
formed your personal leadershipstyle today.
Lela (23:56):
I don't know that there was one.
I wouldn't point to one singleexperience, but I, what I will
say is I have been veryfortunate to have worked with
amazing leaders that I couldlearn from.
They weren't perfect, which isgood, because that also taught
me that you don't have to beperfect to be really good.
(24:17):
And you know, I always, alwaysgoing to school and studying
accounting.
It's very solid, it's very, youknow, consistent, and I thought
I would go somewhere and be inthe same organization for 20 or
30 years and be with the sameleadership for 20 or 30 years,
and that did not turn out to bemy path.
And so, you know, I was kind ofcraved that I wanted to be in a
(24:41):
solid professional situation.
So I was able to find that withdifferent leaders.
But just, you know, there's acertain timing, right, it
doesn't last forever necessarily, but I feel like I have just
learned so much from everyoneI've worked with.
That's really what you know.
(25:02):
That's all I had to go on.
Patti (25:03):
Yeah, Well, I think we are a collection of our
experience.
There's some genetics thrown inthere, but we pull out the best
of what we experience and tryto move forward with those
things, and we learn from thethings that aren't as good.
Lela (25:19):
Yeah, I think, just as long as you are intent, that you
are in this, whatever situation, to learn from it, and that you
are intent on doing your bestin that moment, in that role.
You know, I think that we'veheard it said a lot of different
ways, like just master and doyour very best in this role and
the next role takes care ofitself.
(25:39):
Um, I think it's the same thingfor learning from people.
You can have a terrible manager.
You know, some managers are not.
You can have someone who is notgreat and you can be intent on
learning.
You know what you don't want tobe.
Yeah, not saying that that wasmy situation, I'm just saying I
understand.
You do have to be intentional,though, instead of you know, I
(26:02):
think one of the mistakes thatpeople make when they're young
is not understanding that theyhave that agency over their
future and that really justcomes from.
Okay, what am I going to learnfrom this?
How am I going to use?
Squeeze every bit that I canout of this experience, whether
(26:22):
it's a positive experience or anegative experience, to head
into the next thing?
Patti (26:25):
Yeah, and that's good advice for people listening who
are really trying to form thatpath and realize the agency that
you can and should have as youmake your decisions and shape
your future.
Lela (26:40):
Yeah, and I think just having that bearing as a young
person, it makes people standout.
I think of a certain internthat I had and you know, you
just knew from the beginningthat this person had a vision
for where they're going and,whether or not you know, their
(27:01):
abilities match their vision.
Yet that vision is veryimportant and that knowledge
that you do have the agency overyour future, that's what.
That's what I would tell anyone.
Patti (27:13):
And confidence, confidence is important.
Yeah, how do you build that?
Lela (27:20):
Oh well, just making a lot of mistakes and realizing that
you live.
Patti (27:25):
Yes, you live through them and everybody makes them,
and yeah, I mean, and sometimeswhat do they say?
Lela (27:30):
confidence is like lipstick you have to reapply
every hour.
Uh, you know, it's not justsomething you're born with.
You have to practice confidenceand you you have to be okay
with failure and looking sillyand people not liking you, and
you know all the things thatcome with being human.
Yes, yes and not take any ofthat personally.
(27:53):
Yeah, that's the hard part,isn't it, patty?
Patti (27:55):
we take it personally well, we are about to wrap up
the this episode and we haveanother one where we'll dig
deeper into your role at CrystalBridges and Momentary and some
of the very exciting things thatare coming there.
But as we wrap up, what advicecan you share with our listeners
and viewers about just managingtheir personal, career and life
(28:17):
choices as they move throughlife?
Lela (28:20):
Yeah, I would say like, just, I'm a planner, so above
all else, I love to have a plan.
I don't care if that plan evercomes to reality.
I will make a new plan tomorrowbecause I love planning.
But, like, make your plans butdon't worry about them too much
because they're going to changeand you know, be committed but
(28:42):
also be willing to let that plango If something else comes up.
That's better.
And I also just tell peoplelike you really can't fail.
Ken (28:51):
Yeah, just keep going.
Lela (28:53):
The only way you fail is if you stop trying and you're
going to fail a lot, yeah, andit's going to teach you a lot
and be brave.
Keep going, okay.
Ken (29:05):
Those are definitely learning moments along the way.
Lela (29:09):
So many.
Ken (29:09):
And, like you said, a plan is not static, it is definitely
dynamic, whether it is apersonal plan or a fitness plan
or plan for growing yourbusiness.
They are meant to be looked aton a regular basis, amended,
communicated and ensure thateveryone knows what the new
adjustments are to the plan, andthat's where you drive success.
(29:30):
So thanks for sharing that part.
Howdy, did you have anything?
Patti (29:33):
No, I don't.
I don't have anything else.
Lela (29:36):
Thank you so much.
You guys are so easy to talk to.
We appreciate that.
Ken (29:41):
Yes, indeed.
So thank you for being heretoday and thank you, Lila, and
we want to just say please, ifyou've enjoyed this and our
other podcasts, go on to ourfourbarscom podcast
fourbarspodcastcom.
Yes, go on to ourfourbarspodcastcom and please
(30:01):
let us know what you would liketo hear about topics that you
would like to have, and alsoensure that you follow and
subscribe so that you can getsome information about us and
check out our website.
So, again, thank you for beingwith us and we will look forward
to next time.
Patti (30:16):
Thank you, have a great day.
The 4 Bars podcast has beenbrought to you by Edges Inc.
A growth advisory firm based inBentonville, arkansas.
I founded the company in 2001.
Ken (30:27):
Edges promotes growth, people, companies and ideas.
Our team collaboration tool,called Interface Methods, is a
basis for teams to work togethermore collaboratively,
understand each other and acceptdifferences and address
challenges together.
Patti (30:39):
We also started a nonprofit called Unform your
Bias.
We teach kids and their adultinfluencers how to utilize
storytelling as a means toreduce bias in the world.
We hope you'll check us out,subscribe to our podcast and
look at our website.
You know people that I've known, networks that I've been a
part of, things I'vecontributed to.
You know I'm a big.
I'm very involved with NextUplocally and that is a group of.
I've always been involved withgroups of women especially.
Ken (00:17):
Welcome to the 4 Bars podcast.
Patti (00:19):
I'm Patti Leith, we're your hosts for some compelling
dialogue, encouraging ourlisteners to strengthen their
connections and build strongcommunities, lifting each other
up and connecting in ways thatmatter.
We named the podcast Four Barsas a reference to how hard we
work to find a Four Barsconnection on our devices.
Ken (00:37):
And we wondered what could happen with relationships if we
worked as hard at connecting.
Patti (00:41):
Let's find out.
Ken (00:43):
Welcome to this week's episode of Four Bars Podcast.
I'm one of your co-hosts, KenLeith.
Patti (00:47):
And I'm Patti Leith.
Welcome back.
Ken (00:49):
Yes, and we are very excited this week to have with
us Leila Davidson.
Leila is the Chief OperatingOfficer of the Crystal Bridges
Museum of American Art and theMomentary Welcome, Leila.
Lela (01:01):
Great to have you here.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate this.
Patti (01:04):
Yes, well, you are going to be doing a couple of episodes
with us, and we're very excitedabout that.
I know people are probablyreally interested in your
journey, how you ended up whereyou are today, and so I'll just
open with tell us a little bitabout yourself and then we'll
dig deeper into your journey.
Lela (01:24):
Okay, open with tell us a little bit about yourself and
then we'll dig deeper into yourjourney.
Okay, well, my journey to whereI am today professionally is I
always say it's been a squigglycareer path.
So it's very squiggly justreally taking advantage of, you
know, the opportunities thathave been placed in my path.
And so I started as a CPA, wentto school, thought that that
was what I would do forever, andit didn't work out that way.
(01:47):
So I've gotten to work in a lotof different spaces, from, you
know, the financial space tomedia and e-commerce and retail
and advertising, and it's justall really feels like it's
culminated in this opportunityto contribute back to the
community in this incredibleinstitution and Crystal Bridges.
(02:08):
In the momentary, but I wouldsay the biggest thing for me has
been the openness to do thingsthat were not necessarily a part
of my plan, whether that's inleadership of myself or
leadership of others.
That's just been.
I've been really fortunate andlucky and also, I would say,
(02:30):
prepared and willing to step outon a limb and try new things
Very cool.
Patti (02:36):
Well, we're going to dig a little bit deeper into that.
You are here in the BentonvilleArkansas area.
How long have you been?
Lela (02:45):
here.
I've been here 21 years, okay.
Patti (02:47):
I've been here a long time as well.
Seen a lot right.
Lela (02:50):
We have seen a lot of change.
Patti (02:51):
For sure, for sure.
Well, so, as you were startingout your career in accounting,
what were some of the thingsthat made you consider looking
at, or or pivoting to, otherroles?
Lela (03:07):
For me it's always just been, you know, whatever the
life and family circumstanceswere, and so you know, as I was
starting to have a family almost30 years ago, I you know it's
things were a little differentthan they are today, and so we
took whatever opportunities madesense for both of our careers.
My husband and myself we'vebeen married for 32 years and
(03:31):
you know things have changedover that time, and so I would
say a lot of my choices werebased on what was the best for
our overall family unit at thetime, the opportunities that we
both had, and I was definitelyopen to whatever I could do.
I think I would say, as youknow, kids coming out of school
(03:52):
today, accounting or anythingthat's that technical of a field
can never serve you wrong, likewhether it's data science or
you know many other options.
Today that was something thathas come with me.
And so, even though I've pivotedinto these different areas,
I've never left that originalfoundational financial education
(04:16):
behind.
I mean, it has served meincredibly well and it's
actually come full circle.
I think a lot of in this roletoday what I do is a lot of it
is financially based.
Even though I sort of tried toget away from it, it always
comes back.
Patti (04:31):
It always comes back because you have that foundation
.
But in the years, or probablymonths really, that I've come to
get to know you better, I dothink there is a part of you
that seeks innovation andcreativity and things that are
different, that you may not havehad that opportunity to do.
Lela (04:48):
Yeah, I think I really just get bored easily, Patty,
and so you have to make yournatural traits work for you
right?
Yes, you do so.
You know, once I've masteredsomething, I'm really ready to
move on, and not to say that,you know, the accounting world
was, you know, not innovative atthe time, but there was
(05:08):
definitely a feeling of this issomething that you understand
now, and how else can you applythis Right?
Patti (05:16):
right, right, and I think there are a lot of innovations
in accounting.
I think what, what I've come tosee about you is that you
really do like trying new things.
Right, I do like trying newthings.
That's awesome.
Ken (05:28):
Now I should say I mean, I hear people talk about, you know
, the excitement of trying newthings in their career.
Sometimes there's a hesitancyof people to do that.
What do you think has kind ofbeen your impetus for saying,
yeah, I will take on newchallenges and try different
things, versus staying where I'mcomfortable all the time?
Lela (05:48):
I think for me it's a little bit of that fear of
missing out.
So I think about making theleap to Crystal Bridges, which
you know it was a big riskbecause I was in a role that I
could have continued in thatrole for quite some time, you
know, working at one of thelargest communications and
(06:09):
creative agencies in the world.
That's very successful.
And to leave that to dosomething that was very unknown,
I think a lot of my motivationwas just I was I knew that if I
saw someone else doing that work, that wasn't me because I would
have, if I was afraid to makethe leap, I knew that I would
(06:30):
kick myself in a year if I sawsomeone because I knew that
someone else I knew would getthe role and I would have to
watch them have all the fun.
And so it's a little bit of Iguess it's fear of missing out
I'm not sure what it is or justa little bit of insanity, that
not just being satisfied torelax, yeah it definitely sounds
(06:51):
like it keeps it very fresh andexciting.
Ken (06:53):
That's for sure.
And you mentioned, you knowyou've been married for 32 years
and family, so within yourfamily structure there sounds
like there's good support forseeking new opportunities.
Lela (07:05):
Yeah, I think we really support each other.
I mean, my husband and I havebeen.
You know, you don't make itthis long, as you know, without,
uh, good communication, goodalignment of values, um,
supporting what each other wantsto do, even though you don't
know what that is when you signup together in the beginning,
(07:26):
when you're babies.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's greatWe've we've had a, we've had a
good, a good time following eachother.
Patti (07:34):
One of the things that I think people who know you know
about you is that you have ahuge passion for community.
Tell us about how you came tohave that and why that's really
important to you.
Tell us about how you came tohave that and why that's really
important to you.
Lela (07:46):
I've had a lot of opportunities and a lot of those
opportunities have been outsideof my family circle and just
being part of nurturingcommunities is something that I
didn't realize when I wasyounger how much that really
boosts you in life.
And, honestly, I've really beenlucky to make friends with a
(08:12):
group of primarily women thathave had that foundation in
community building and communitycontribution, and so I've
really learned a lot of thatfrom my friends and I also would
say just being part of thatfrom my friends and also, I'd
say, just being part ofNorthwest Arkansas for the last
year two decades and seeing howthis community has come together
(08:34):
uniquely.
You know I've lived in somephilanthropic places before, but
nothing that comes close towhat this area does, and so I
think that has shaped me a lot,I mean in my later adult life
here.
Patti (08:47):
Yeah, yeah, and I think that's amazing.
As you grew in your career andmade your leadership, you move
into leadership.
Talk to us about that.
What were some of the thingsthat you learned along the way?
Lela (09:04):
I think that it's a there's a couple of tricky
transition moments, moving from,say, being an individual
contributor to being a manager,to being a leader of more people
, because in the beginning we'reyoung and we're all trying to
perform right, and then you haveto shift, you have to take a
(09:28):
different perspective on whatperformance means.
So I think that was for me abig intersection and
understanding how to be ofservice to someone else who's
now in that position of they areonly focused on performing.
And then you know, if you'resuccessful in that, in leading
(09:48):
one or more people, then youknow you end up with more
responsibility usually.
But that and then it changesbecause instead of you know, I
think in the beginning leadingpeople, it was about clearing a
path for those people.
Now I see it a little more oflike building the infrastructure
.
I remember being in a roleseveral years ago, more than 10
(10:13):
years ago, and I could alwayspicture myself as like in the
bush, like with a machete, justlike hacking down whatever was
in our path.
And I feel like now it's morelike okay, I got to build a
bridge or a highway or somethinglike how can we?
You know there's there's moreresponsibility there.
That just a path through thethrough.
(10:34):
The bush isn't going to do it.
Patti (10:36):
Yes, so changing the infrastructure so that you don't
have to keep chopping down thethings that are growing.
Lela (10:40):
Yeah, exactly, and those are.
I think those are someintersections that are really
critical.
That is where I see peoplemaybe don't want to shift their
perspective in that way and theymight get stuck either as an
individual contributor or as ayou know, a manager role with a
smaller contribution than theymaybe could have.
Ken (11:04):
I think you articulated really, really well the fact
that you know where, in upperleadership, your shift is over
now.
Infrastructure and creating theinfrastructure for success, for
growth, if you would.
We look at it and we talk tofolks and different clients and
we'll start out with that.
Generally, we'll go into anorganization as the individual
contributor, front-line person,going to do a great job and
(11:25):
deliver, and then next thing youknow we are.
If we do a good job, we'regiven an opportunity to manage,
and now we're managing one ormore people, as you said.
Ultimately then we start tomanage other leaders and
ultimately we stop looking atthe day-to-day business.
And it's more that, as you said, that infrastructure
(11:54):
no-transcript.
It's very similar, thatstructure of how you do it and
understanding the differences inwhat my responsibilities are,
understanding the differences inwhat my responsibilities are.
But once you start leading eventhe first level, our
responsibility shifts over tothat person to help them get
their job done, and it alwaysremains that.
Lela (12:12):
Yeah, and that's the hardest shift, and I think a lot
of organizations don't do agreat job in preparing people to
make that initial shift,because becoming a manager of
someone else for the first timeis it's just a huge
responsibility and I think inmost organizations we just
expect that it's just going toorganically happen and it
(12:35):
doesn't.
Patti (12:36):
Yeah, and it's.
It's similar to parenting insome respects, not that not that
you're parenting your kids inmanagement, but just that there
are so many things that canoccur and so many experiences
that leave a lasting impressionand there's no handbook, right?
So you have to do the best thatyou can do and learn from it as
you go, and I think I don'trecall the stat.
Lela (12:58):
Maybe we can look it up, but it's some huge amount of
your personal satisfaction thatis determined by your direct
supervisor at work, and so youknow that's a huge
responsibility.
Patti (13:11):
It really is it really is .
It is about it.
And, as you're describing yourleadership journey, I'm thinking
of some research we've done ongenerations, where we there are
extreme generational differencesbased on how we were brought up
and our level of access totechnology and that type of
(13:32):
thing, and at the end of the day, we all want out of life what
we didn't get when we were 10.
And that changes across thegenerations.
But one of the things that wealso experienced in our research
is that there are some thingsthat are just going to always be
the same in your 20s and your30s and your 40s as you're
building your career, and thatit was the same today, right, 50
(13:55):
years ago, right, and we callit my mother hates my music, the
research.
I love that.
So you know, there are justsome things that are different
between 20s when you are tryingto show that you can't do
anything, and in your 40s and50s when you actually have the
opportunity to do those thingsyou have to work through.
(14:16):
You know what are your personalfoundations and values.
Tell us about your leadershipfoundations and values.
What do you think is importantwhen leading about your?
Lela (14:25):
leadership, foundations and values.
What do you think is importantwhen leading For me?
I love putting systems in place.
I thrive on growth, which wetalked about.
You know.
Change to me is growth creatingclarity.
I like for things to be veryorderly in my personal life and
you know that's what I bring.
I think that's one of the mytop value proposition is like
(14:48):
really pulling order, notnecessarily that there has to be
chaos, but often that's uh,some of the environments that I
find myself in is is bringingthat order.
And then, you know, learningand taking those learnings from
one area of creating order toanother area to create order.
But I really I like my doorsalways open.
(15:11):
My, you know my teams can tellme anything.
I try to.
I try to seek out feedback sothat my teams will know that I'm
open to their feedback.
I try to get to know people ona, you know, individual level.
It's tricky sometimes when youhave any size of team really,
(15:32):
because you have to lead eachindividual and you have to lead
a team to get things donetogether.
So you know, I wasn't a sportgirl in school so I can speak in
the business sports metaphors,but I didn't get that imprinted
on me at a young age of thatwhole teamwork foundation.
(15:54):
So that's something that Iactually have learned in the
professional world.
So it's been good.
Yeah, that's awesome.
Ken (16:03):
Yeah, and what you talked about there a little bit is the
fact that seeking out input andfeedback from others within the
team that's one of the mostincredible empowerment things we
see in organizations is whenleaders are open to not thinking
I have to.
Just because I'm a leader, Ihave a title, that doesn't mean
I have to make all the decisionson my own.
In fact, I'm missing out onopportunities if I don't talk to
(16:26):
people within my structure andbeyond, and it may be people who
are on the front lines whoreally know what's going on and
understanding that from themthat we find is really really
critical.
Those conversations are reallycrucial to employee satisfaction
.
Lela (16:41):
And when they are lacking.
Ken (16:44):
It seems like they are really don't, or are more out
there in the wilderness, so tospeak, and not sure of the
foundation that they're tryingto navigate.
If they don't get that fromtheir leader, how did you see
that play out at any point intime in your career?
Lela (16:59):
Well, I think you know absolutely, the frontline knows
what is happening.
You know absolutely, thefrontline knows what is
happening.
So now there's often tensionbetween you know whatever
directives are coming down fromdifferent stakeholders, but the
frontline should feel welcome totell you what, what the reality
(17:20):
is.
The challenge, I think, is andthis is something that I have to
remind myself constantly is,while I see myself as very
approachable and my door isalways open and you can tell me
anything, you know because youhave a certain title or you're
in a certain role, you reallyhave to go out of your way to
(17:40):
make people feel comfortablethat they, you know, can tell
you something that you may notwant to hear.
And so where I've seen it workwell is when leaders are very
intentional about making itknown that they want that kind
of feedback and they want tohear the bad news, not just the
good news.
Where I've seen it not go wellis when there are sort of
(18:05):
performative gestures that areintended to appear to be seeking
feedback, but then thatfeedback's not acted on and that
can be more damaging than notseeking the feedback Absolutely.
It's a tough one.
I have a strong personality.
(18:25):
I'm a direct communicator.
I have a strong personality,I'm a direct communicator, I
have very high standards, and Ialso have to continually remind
myself that not everyone feelscomfortable just coming up to me
and telling me something that Imight not want to hear, even
though I'm fine when I hear it,and I think people, once they
(18:46):
have that experience with me,they understand it.
But it's, it's a very importantaspect as a leader, at least
for me.
Maybe it's just my weak point.
Patti (18:56):
I think it's a strength, for sure, for sure, and I also
think that, as you're, you know,as you're, as you're speaking
about this, one of the thingsthat keeps people from doing it
is not necessarily the leaderthemselves or how they project
themselves, but just the powerof the position.
So they can do that as long asthere's an openness to doing
that.
Don't let the fear be thereason that you don't do it.
Lela (19:32):
Yeah, of course, that openness too.
100%.
You have to be brave, yeah.
Patti (19:37):
I always tell people if there's something that isn't
going the way that you thinkthat it should be going, you can
put up with it until you can'tanymore, you can leave or you
can try to change it.
And that is the better of thethree is to try to change it,
because everybody benefits fromit.
Lela (19:54):
Right.
It's so much more satisfyingand I remember being young and
having a manager that I justfervently disagreed with on a
certain point and you knowpsyching myself up and and going
in and having this toughconversation and you know, after
that we were just great, likehe did want to hear it and I did
need to get it off my chest.
(20:15):
I can't imagine if I would haveheld that in.
I wouldn't have been able tostay with the organization.
Patti (20:19):
So yeah, yeah.
So that's great.
That's great.
Now I know just from knowingyou you really put a lot of
emphasis into connections andnetworking.
And can you speak to that alittle bit and how, how you do
that, why you think that'simportant?
Lela (20:38):
It comes naturally for me, but every opportunity I've had
has been through.
You know people that I've known, networks that I've been a part
of, things I've contributed to.
You know I'm a big.
I'm very involved with NextUplocally and that is a group of.
(20:58):
I've always been involved withgroups of women especially, and
I think it's just healthy.
As human beings, I mean, we'rebuilt for connection right, and
so of course, in yourprofessional life it's not going
to be any different and youjust never know who you're going
to meet.
(21:19):
You know what kind of oddconnection you might have that
you would never be able to planfor.
So you know, and for me too,it's just part of that change
and keeping things fresh anddynamic.
And while I have a very coregroup of friends and social
connections, you know there'salways, there's always more.
(21:40):
You know this community isthriving and growing and I just
can't imagine not being part ofall these different circles.
Yeah, as part of what I am,yeah, and it's.
Patti (21:50):
It's a big part of of of maintaining a positivity in our
own lives.
Is this, this community andconnection and networking and
the willingness to step out anddo that right?
Ken (22:03):
yeah, absolutely yeah, I think the other thing is that
you know we're talking about alot about work situations, but
it conveys over to your pointtoo, into our personal lives.
And what do we do Well, at work?
We are connecting stuff we getin our personal life, we're
connecting and ultimately we'reconnecting our community and
connecting to our community andcoming from predominantly large
(22:24):
cities until I moved here 16years ago or now went on 19
years, 19.
It was something that in biggercities you still have
connections, but it was.
You have to be more intentional.
But, like when I got here and Iarrived here, it's like you
can't go out and not connectwith someone almost and it's a
different kind of openingconversation is what I would say
(22:46):
.
And when we would go out, maybeafter work, have dinner or
something almost always we canmeet someone new and strike up a
conversation.
And the next thing you knowyou're talking about doing
things connecting here have youtried this or something this
year?
And then that person now comesinto your circle of friends,
(23:06):
right, and that circle justkeeps expanding here in a very
positive way, I would say.
Mostly everything I've had is ahard experience here.
It's been very positive thatyou can build upon and build,
whether it's for I'm doing it tonetwork or I'm doing it for
friendships, I'm doing itbecause I want to be a bigger
part of the community.
It all exists here in NorthwestArkansas.
Lela (23:25):
Yeah, this is.
I mean, you can't beat thiscommunity.
Yeah, and people who are cominghere?
You know it attracts people whowant that kind of connection,
want a certain lifestyle, andyou know, of course, you're
going to meet great people whenyou get out in this community,
could you not Right?
Patti (23:42):
Yeah, that's amazing Now as you think about your past
stories and things that havereally been formative, that
formed your personal leadershipstyle today.
Lela (23:56):
I don't know that there was one.
I wouldn't point to one singleexperience, but I, what I will
say is I have been veryfortunate to have worked with
amazing leaders that I couldlearn from.
They weren't perfect, which isgood, because that also taught
me that you don't have to beperfect to be really good.
(24:17):
And you know, I always, alwaysgoing to school and studying
accounting.
It's very solid, it's very, youknow, consistent, and I thought
I would go somewhere and be inthe same organization for 20 or
30 years and be with the sameleadership for 20 or 30 years,
and that did not turn out to bemy path.
And so, you know, I was kind ofcraved that I wanted to be in a
(24:41):
solid professional situation.
So I was able to find that withdifferent leaders.
But just, you know, there's acertain timing, right, it
doesn't last forever necessarily, but I feel like I have just
learned so much from everyoneI've worked with.
That's really what you know.
(25:02):
That's all I had to go on.
Patti (25:03):
Yeah, Well, I think we are a collection of our
experience.
There's some genetics thrown inthere, but we pull out the best
of what we experience and tryto move forward with those
things, and we learn from thethings that aren't as good.
Lela (25:19):
Yeah, I think, just as long as you are intent, that you
are in this, whatever situation, to learn from it, and that you
are intent on doing your bestin that moment, in that role.
You know, I think that we'veheard it said a lot of different
ways, like just master and doyour very best in this role and
the next role takes care ofitself.
(25:39):
Um, I think it's the same thingfor learning from people.
You can have a terrible manager.
You know, some managers are not.
You can have someone who is notgreat and you can be intent on
learning.
You know what you don't want tobe.
Yeah, not saying that that wasmy situation, I'm just saying I
understand.
You do have to be intentional,though, instead of you know, I
(26:02):
think one of the mistakes thatpeople make when they're young
is not understanding that theyhave that agency over their
future and that really justcomes from.
Okay, what am I going to learnfrom this?
How am I going to use?
Squeeze every bit that I canout of this experience, whether
(26:22):
it's a positive experience or anegative experience, to head
into the next thing?
Patti (26:25):
Yeah, and that's good advice for people listening who
are really trying to form thatpath and realize the agency that
you can and should have as youmake your decisions and shape
your future.
Lela (26:40):
Yeah, and I think just having that bearing as a young
person, it makes people standout.
I think of a certain internthat I had and you know, you
just knew from the beginningthat this person had a vision
for where they're going and,whether or not you know, their
(27:01):
abilities match their vision.
Yet that vision is veryimportant and that knowledge
that you do have the agency overyour future, that's what.
That's what I would tell anyone.
Patti (27:13):
And confidence, confidence is important.
Yeah, how do you build that?
Lela (27:20):
Oh well, just making a lot of mistakes and realizing that
you live.
Patti (27:25):
Yes, you live through them and everybody makes them,
and yeah, I mean, and sometimeswhat do they say?
Lela (27:30):
confidence is like lipstick you have to reapply
every hour.
Uh, you know, it's not justsomething you're born with.
You have to practice confidenceand you you have to be okay
with failure and looking sillyand people not liking you, and
you know all the things thatcome with being human.
Yes, yes and not take any ofthat personally.
(27:53):
Yeah, that's the hard part,isn't it, patty?
Patti (27:55):
we take it personally well, we are about to wrap up
the this episode and we haveanother one where we'll dig
deeper into your role at CrystalBridges and Momentary and some
of the very exciting things thatare coming there.
But as we wrap up, what advicecan you share with our listeners
and viewers about just managingtheir personal, career and life
(28:17):
choices as they move throughlife?
Lela (28:20):
Yeah, I would say like, just, I'm a planner, so above
all else, I love to have a plan.
I don't care if that plan evercomes to reality.
I will make a new plan tomorrowbecause I love planning.
But, like, make your plans butdon't worry about them too much
because they're going to changeand you know, be committed but
(28:42):
also be willing to let that plango If something else comes up.
That's better.
And I also just tell peoplelike you really can't fail.
Ken (28:51):
Yeah, just keep going.
Lela (28:53):
The only way you fail is if you stop trying and you're
going to fail a lot, yeah, andit's going to teach you a lot
and be brave.
Keep going, okay.
Ken (29:05):
Those are definitely learning moments along the way.
Lela (29:09):
So many.
Ken (29:09):
And, like you said, a plan is not static, it is definitely
dynamic, whether it is apersonal plan or a fitness plan
or plan for growing yourbusiness.
They are meant to be looked aton a regular basis, amended,
communicated and ensure thateveryone knows what the new
adjustments are to the plan, andthat's where you drive success.
(29:30):
So thanks for sharing that part.
Howdy, did you have anything?
Patti (29:33):
No, I don't.
I don't have anything else.
Lela (29:36):
Thank you so much.
You guys are so easy to talk to.
We appreciate that.
Ken (29:41):
Yes, indeed.
So thank you for being heretoday and thank you, Lila, and
we want to just say please, ifyou've enjoyed this and our
other podcasts, go on to ourfourbarscom podcast
fourbarspodcastcom.
Yes, go on to ourfourbarspodcastcom and please
(30:01):
let us know what you would liketo hear about topics that you
would like to have, and alsoensure that you follow and
subscribe so that you can getsome information about us and
check out our website.
So, again, thank you for beingwith us and we will look forward
to next time.
Patti (30:16):
Thank you, have a great day.
The 4 Bars podcast has beenbrought to you by Edges Inc.
A growth advisory firm based inBentonville, arkansas.
I founded the company in 2001.
Ken (30:27):
Edges promotes growth, people, companies and ideas.
Our team collaboration tool,called Interface Methods, is a
basis for teams to work togethermore collaboratively,
understand each other and acceptdifferences and address
challenges together.
Patti (30:39):
We also started a nonprofit called Unform your
Bias.
We teach kids and their adultinfluencers how to utilize
storytelling as a means toreduce bias in the world.
We hope you'll check us out,subscribe to our podcast and
look at our website.
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